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foreign truckers to pay
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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at last, after many many years of all our truckers/coaches etc having to pay to use the roads when abroad when they came here and payed nothing.
it seems that now they will have to pay a £10 a day charge, still less than we have to pay to them, but at least its something.
just wonder how much its going to cost to finance it as our government are going to be installing loads of extra cameras at ports etc to record them arriving and leaving, and if all of them will pay? when in there country its pay as you go with tolls etc, so wonder if our system is going to be based on trust?? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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about time, hopefully it will stop trucks with long range tanks coming over doing a weeks work and going home to fill up. almost everyother truck on the roads are from across the water, the charge could be much higher to match other countries |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Perhaps it could be added to the ferry ticket price in the same way as the Airport Departure Tax.
However it is done, you can guarantee payment will NOT be pursued with a fraction of the determination of your average parking attendant. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"about time, hopefully it will stop trucks with long range tanks coming over doing a weeks work and going home to fill up. almost everyother truck on the roads are from across the water, the charge could be much higher to match other countries"
didn't eddie stobart do that with their belgian registered fleet too though ?
it does go some way to levelling the playing field, but will not solve the problem of failing hauliers in this country.
fuel is not the only factor - labour rates are high here too
despite the fact that many UK drivers have experienced pay cuts over the last 3 years, labour rates are still lower in europe, especially in iberia and eastern europe and the cost of moving things by road will remain to be cheaper for foreign hauliers.
also, whilst we have big players on the scene (stobarts, norbert dentressangle and the like) they will continue to drive market costs down by having fleet economies that the smaller hauliers can simply cannot compete with.
much in the same way as the supermarkets have affected smaller independent shops in the uk
those hauliers with a niche market will survive, those that move with the times, those that look at dedicated contract distrubtion may also survive the recession
those who fail or refuse to move with the times will go under or reduce their fleets accordingly.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"about time, hopefully it will stop trucks with long range tanks coming over doing a weeks work and going home to fill up. almost everyother truck on the roads are from across the water, the charge could be much higher to match other countries
didn't eddie stobart do that with their belgian registered fleet too though ?
it does go some way to levelling the playing field, but will not solve the problem of failing hauliers in this country.
fuel is not the only factor - labour rates are high here too
despite the fact that many UK drivers have experienced pay cuts over the last 3 years, labour rates are still lower in europe, especially in iberia and eastern europe and the cost of moving things by road will remain to be cheaper for foreign hauliers.
also, whilst we have big players on the scene (stobarts, norbert dentressangle and the like) they will continue to drive market costs down by having fleet economies that the smaller hauliers can simply cannot compete with.
much in the same way as the supermarkets have affected smaller independent shops in the uk
those hauliers with a niche market will survive, those that move with the times, those that look at dedicated contract distrubtion may also survive the recession
those who fail or refuse to move with the times will go under or reduce their fleets accordingly.
"
it was not intended as anything towards the drivers or companies or even costs or wages (btw. norbert dentressangle is a french company doing what stobart did in belgium).
my post was intended to show the unfairness of our hauliers having to pay to use the foreign roads while foreign companies could use our roads for free.
so, my point is, that if we can find a way to police the collecting of the £10 per day that foreign companies will be asked to pay, then it will help to put some much needed money into the country,
and help redress the balance of us paying them, and them not paying us for road use. |
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They reckon on the BBC 'Politics Show' that the cost of collecting the £10 a day charge will dwarf the actual monies collected by the system.
Shame really as it is obviously not a level playing field for British drivers... |
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By *om1noMan
over a year ago
South Worcestershire |
It's an easy answer to this , give all ferry and tunnell authorities a %10 commission on all funds collected and when on return journey all costs adjusted . It's about time some form of tax was instigated, foreign trucks have ruined this industry and they need to pay for it. It makes me so annoyed. Grrrrrrrrr |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"about time, hopefully it will stop trucks with long range tanks coming over doing a weeks work and going home to fill up. almost everyother truck on the roads are from across the water, the charge could be much higher to match other countries
didn't eddie stobart do that with their belgian registered fleet too though ?
it does go some way to levelling the playing field, but will not solve the problem of failing hauliers in this country.
fuel is not the only factor - labour rates are high here too
despite the fact that many UK drivers have experienced pay cuts over the last 3 years, labour rates are still lower in europe, especially in iberia and eastern europe and the cost of moving things by road will remain to be cheaper for foreign hauliers.
also, whilst we have big players on the scene (stobarts, norbert dentressangle and the like) they will continue to drive market costs down by having fleet economies that the smaller hauliers can simply cannot compete with.
much in the same way as the supermarkets have affected smaller independent shops in the uk
those hauliers with a niche market will survive, those that move with the times, those that look at dedicated contract distrubtion may also survive the recession
those who fail or refuse to move with the times will go under or reduce their fleets accordingly.
it was not intended as anything towards the drivers or companies or even costs or wages (btw. norbert dentressangle is a french company doing what stobart did in belgium).
my post was intended to show the unfairness of our hauliers having to pay to use the foreign roads while foreign companies could use our roads for free.
so, my point is, that if we can find a way to police the collecting of the £10 per day that foreign companies will be asked to pay, then it will help to put some much needed money into the country,
and help redress the balance of us paying them, and them not paying us for road use."
if the £10 is a one off charge then surely toll points at the ports and entry points would be sensible
you don't move out of the port until you pay yout £10
you'll have to excuse the rant - it's the industry that pays my wages indirectly so i keep my eye on things
i know norberts are french, and they have a strong foothold in UK contract distribution since they bought TDG from the private equity firm last year
incidentally though, despite the fact they are french, they do seem to operate a lot of bulgarian and spanish registered trucks in the UK ! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"They reckon on the BBC 'Politics Show' that the cost of collecting the £10 a day charge will dwarf the actual monies collected by the system.
Shame really as it is obviously not a level playing field for British drivers..."
maybe ... and i mean maybe... only an idea so dont go off on one .... but
how about abolish the tax disc scheme and replace with toll roads ???
runs & hides |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They reckon on the BBC 'Politics Show' that the cost of collecting the £10 a day charge will dwarf the actual monies collected by the system.
Shame really as it is obviously not a level playing field for British drivers...
maybe ... and i mean maybe... only an idea so dont go off on one .... but
how about abolish the tax disc scheme and replace with toll roads ???
runs & hides"
don't be silly
this is the UK,
we'll have tax discs AND toll roads  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"about time, hopefully it will stop trucks with long range tanks coming over doing a weeks work and going home to fill up. almost everyother truck on the roads are from across the water, the charge could be much higher to match other countries
didn't eddie stobart do that with their belgian registered fleet too though ?
it does go some way to levelling the playing field, but will not solve the problem of failing hauliers in this country.
fuel is not the only factor - labour rates are high here too
despite the fact that many UK drivers have experienced pay cuts over the last 3 years, labour rates are still lower in europe, especially in iberia and eastern europe and the cost of moving things by road will remain to be cheaper for foreign hauliers.
also, whilst we have big players on the scene (stobarts, norbert dentressangle and the like) they will continue to drive market costs down by having fleet economies that the smaller hauliers can simply cannot compete with.
much in the same way as the supermarkets have affected smaller independent shops in the uk
those hauliers with a niche market will survive, those that move with the times, those that look at dedicated contract distrubtion may also survive the recession
those who fail or refuse to move with the times will go under or reduce their fleets accordingly.
it was not intended as anything towards the drivers or companies or even costs or wages (btw. norbert dentressangle is a french company doing what stobart did in belgium).
my post was intended to show the unfairness of our hauliers having to pay to use the foreign roads while foreign companies could use our roads for free.
so, my point is, that if we can find a way to police the collecting of the £10 per day that foreign companies will be asked to pay, then it will help to put some much needed money into the country,
and help redress the balance of us paying them, and them not paying us for road use.
if the £10 is a one off charge then surely toll points at the ports and entry points would be sensible
you don't move out of the port until you pay yout £10
you'll have to excuse the rant - it's the industry that pays my wages indirectly so i keep my eye on things
i know norberts are french, and they have a strong foothold in UK contract distribution since they bought TDG from the private equity firm last year
incidentally though, despite the fact they are french, they do seem to operate a lot of bulgarian and spanish registered trucks in the UK !"
the difficulty is bussy, it is £10 per day, not a one off fee |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
the difficulty is bussy, it is £10 per day, not a one off fee"
only we could come up with a system difficult and expensive to manage
charge them on the way out then ?
invest in a database that monitors movements in and out
come in day 1 thru 1 port, leave day 7 thru another
7 days potential road usage = £70 charge
no pay = no ferry
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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just watching local news ... Quayside, a haulage company. pay out £80.000 a year to cross the humber bridge !!!!!
now last year, the government offered to write off half of the debt, the local council are STILL DISCUSSING the offer and arguing wether to accept or not 
also, a local businessman offered to buy the bridge at the going rate and operate it himself.... the local council REJECTED THE OFFER |
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By *om1noMan
over a year ago
South Worcestershire |
Or another idea is there is one payment in advance, £100 for 12 months, permit has to displayed in windscreen and checked by passport officials in exiting port, just one office to set up, there you go , job done, we are an island, so easy to instigate. There again perhaps the simple answers wouldn't be good enough, as no enquiry or committee would have to set up.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Or another idea is there is one payment in advance, £100 for 12 months, permit has to displayed in windscreen and checked by passport officials in exiting port, just one office to set up, there you go , job done, we are an island, so easy to instigate. There again perhaps the simple answers wouldn't be good enough, as no enquiry or committee would have to set up. "
hmmm .. £100 for 12 months V £70 per week ??
non starter there i think, too much loss of revenue |
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By *om1noMan
over a year ago
South Worcestershire |
"Or another idea is there is one payment in advance, £100 for 12 months, permit has to displayed in windscreen and checked by passport officials in exiting port, just one office to set up, there you go , job done, we are an island, so easy to instigate. There again perhaps the simple answers wouldn't be good enough, as no enquiry or committee would have to set up.
hmmm .. £100 for 12 months V £70 per week ?? Then make the cost fit, it's a system that is minimal on set up cost, and as there are an estimated 50.000 foreign trucks in uk at one time any revenue would be welcome, give it to the pensioners for instance.
non starter there i think, too much loss of revenue"
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Put a customs man on each ferry and in the two hours it takes to cross the drivers can go to an on board paying desk, or even a kiosk, and pay. If they don't have a ticket when the ferry docks they don't get off the fookin ferry and have to pay twice when they go back. |
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In light of this it's a crying shame that this government has cut both the Customs service and the UK Border Control service numbers by the hundreds over the last 18 months....
So maybe a Customs Officer every third ferry now? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In light of this it's a crying shame that this government has cut both the Customs service and the UK Border Control service numbers by the hundreds over the last 18 months....
So maybe a Customs Officer every third ferry now?"
One of the first things Thatcher did was cut the Customs and Excise staff levels. I could never understand that move.
I don't doubt the Borders Agency could work a lot more efficiently but if we do more scrutiny at the ports surely we need to do less elsewhere. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In light of this it's a crying shame that this government has cut both the Customs service and the UK Border Control service numbers by the hundreds over the last 18 months....
So maybe a Customs Officer every third ferry now?"
Or we could just tell the Frenchies we don't want their fookin produce over here. |
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"In light of this it's a crying shame that this government has cut both the Customs service and the UK Border Control service numbers by the hundreds over the last 18 months....
So maybe a Customs Officer every third ferry now?
Or we could just tell the Frenchies we don't want their fookin produce over here."
Problem is we in all likelyhood export more to France than we import.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In light of this it's a crying shame that this government has cut both the Customs service and the UK Border Control service numbers by the hundreds over the last 18 months....
So maybe a Customs Officer every third ferry now?
Or we could just tell the Frenchies we don't want their fookin produce over here.
Problem is we in all likelyhood export more to France than we import...."
Even better then, stop importing their shite and we export even more when you average it out. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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the thing is... our government, in their infinite wisdom, have, as usual, made it the most difficult to implement system possible. foreign visitors screw our system from every angle and then run home without paying.
we need a simple and fair solution that ensures we collect the revenue that is due |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"the thing is... our government, in their infinite wisdom, have, as usual, made it the most difficult to implement system possible. foreign visitors screw our system from every angle and then run home without paying.
we need a simple and fair solution that ensures we collect the revenue that is due"
We often blame "the government" when perhaps the real culprits are often the Oxbridge-educated, supposedly very clever civil servants who draft the rules. I think most of them have absolutely no street-sense hence the loopholes are usually easily found. |
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Maybe a yearly license for each foreign registered truck before it can enter the UK?
Would be far easier to police and cheaper to apply than this £10 a day rubbish.....
If a foreign truck doesn't carry the said disc on the windscreen....linked to the registration of said truck, then it doesn't land on British soil. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It was said that on average our truckers pay £14 a day to drive abroad
So our sad sack govt makes it £10 instead
Soft touch Britain strikes again xx  "
dont know where they get £14 a day from, in the 80s, i was driving coaches all over europe, and as i remember, to go to say spain & back was around £120 in tolls |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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may i just say, labour rates may be higher in this sector here, than in some parts of europe, but living costs are higher here than the same countries, AND i earned MORE 10 years ago, pushing a button in a factory then i do driving around £100k worth of rig and being in charge of £200k worth of produce.
ateotd you get what you pay for.
in some eastern european countries to get an hgv licence you need to take, the equivalent of, £50 to the local bobbies. if you pass an eye test, you get the licence. I, on the other hand, paid over £2k for mine, have to pay a further £600 for training to be able to drive for reward after sept 2014, then every 5 years thereafter + renew my licence and digicard every 10 and 5 years respectively, then pay for further training if i want to haul things with any danger to them (petrol tankers costs another £600 for little or no reward).
so yes, £10 an hour for a driver sounds a lot, but when you take into consideration what it costs us to work for a living, you can appreciate it is no longer the golden goose it may well have been considered once upon a time
(sorry for the rant) |
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By *ucky_LadsCouple (MM)
over a year ago
Kidderminster+ surrounding areas. |
"Maybe a yearly license for each foreign registered truck before it can enter the UK?
Would be far easier to police and cheaper to apply than this £10 a day rubbish.....
If a foreign truck doesn't carry the said disc on the windscreen....linked to the registration of said truck, then it doesn't land on British soil."
simples!,that does sound easier to implement than a day to day collection which will never ever be collected!,that sounds just lip service. |
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It would be a lot easier (and possibly more cost effective) to implement a one-off charge per visit, as people have said, toll gates.
The problem with a charge per day is the cost of the system. Even though automated number plate recognition is widely used in car parks and the like, to set up a network nationally wouldn’t be cheap.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Maybe a yearly license for each foreign registered truck before it can enter the UK?
Would be far easier to police and cheaper to apply than this £10 a day rubbish.....
If a foreign truck doesn't carry the said disc on the windscreen....linked to the registration of said truck, then it doesn't land on British soil."
i would imagine that fall at the first hurdle of European competition rules. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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cant help but think that motorways are made into toll roads is the answer ... with a reduction in fuel duty or road tax to compensate could be the answer.
dont agree with it but think it may be the way forward ??
it is a fairer system for us too, the more you use the roads the more you should pay ?? |
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"Maybe a yearly license for each foreign registered truck before it can enter the UK?
Would be far easier to police and cheaper to apply than this £10 a day rubbish.....
If a foreign truck doesn't carry the said disc on the windscreen....linked to the registration of said truck, then it doesn't land on British soil.
i would imagine that fall at the first hurdle of European competition rules."
Yes....could well do |
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"cant help but think that motorways are made into toll roads is the answer ... with a reduction in fuel duty or road tax to compensate could be the answer.
dont agree with it but think it may be the way forward ??
it is a fairer system for us too, the more you use the roads the more you should pay ??"
Trouble is, as with many parts of France, it also diverts major traffic onto minor roads.... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"cant help but think that motorways are made into toll roads is the answer ... with a reduction in fuel duty or road tax to compensate could be the answer.
dont agree with it but think it may be the way forward ??
it is a fairer system for us too, the more you use the roads the more you should pay ??
Trouble is, as with many parts of France, it also diverts major traffic onto minor roads...."
yes... sadly the downside to the plan
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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how about some form of "clocking in card" like used in carparks??
get a card time & date stamped as you enter the port, then check out at any port by putting money in a machine?
as i say, like in car parks |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Hold on.... there are almost no toll roads in Germany, Holland, Belgium, Polland, Denmark, etc etc....
Only really France and Italy that have a lot of Toll Roads.
This is just another way of the government adding an extra cost to deliveries to UK shops... which at some point will get paid by..
US!
Even better when it under funds the burocracy thats needed to collect it, we can pay the running cost from out income tax and then pay higher prices in the shops to pay the insufficient tax we are paying to collect!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hold on.... there are almost no toll roads in Germany, Holland, Belgium, Polland, Denmark, etc etc....
Only really France and Italy that have a lot of Toll Roads.
This is just another way of the government adding an extra cost to deliveries to UK shops... which at some point will get paid by..
US!
Even better when it under funds the burocracy thats needed to collect it, we can pay the running cost from out income tax and then pay higher prices in the shops to pay the insufficient tax we are paying to collect!!!"
sorry, the UK haulage industry have been undercut by our European counterparts for many many years, driving businesses to ruination and taking jobs from UK taxpayers. european hualiers fuel up on the cintinent, with HUGE fuel tanks, so they dont have to pay uk fuel duty, run heavier loads, so they damage our roads more, and the condition of the wagons and drivers are far below the standards we in the UK have to maintain, so thier running costs are lower, but the vehicles are much more dangerous to have on our roads.
you can find any amount of VOSA stats that say there are a higher %age of UK hauliers that run bad motors, but thats because almost EVERY european truck is pulled, at 1 time or another. its only UK hauliers that have been flagged as dangerous that are pulled. you keep your wagon clean and in good condition, VOsa generally give your company a wide berth because they dont earn anything by stopping you. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"sorry, the UK haulage industry have been undercut by our European counterparts for many many years"
Fuel price is about the same in Europe as in the UK now, there was a big difference some time back but it's just stupidly high everywhere now!Road Fund (Tax Disk) is silly money on UK hauliers but if you were to run your foreign truck in the UK for 300 days a year at £10 a day it wouldn't come close to leveling the playing field.
So don't be fooled into thinking this is to help UK hauliers, it won't, but it will cost the public one way or another. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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im not saying it will help, but at least they are coming up with ideas.
otherwise i may as well move to Bulgaria as i will still be delivering your stuff to your local tescos, just will be able to afford to live. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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LOL does anyone think it will really happen it isnt even at the consultation stage it has been said to keep hauliers quiet because of the ever rising cost of fuel!!!!!!!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"LOL does anyone think it will really happen it isnt even at the consultation stage it has been said to keep hauliers quiet because of the ever rising cost of fuel!!!!!!!!!"
You are probably right, smoke and mirrors, again  |
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"Hold on.... there are almost no toll roads in Germany, Holland, Belgium, Polland, Denmark, etc etc....
Only really France and Italy that have a lot of Toll Roads.
This is just another way of the government adding an extra cost to deliveries to UK shops... which at some point will get paid by..
US!
Even better when it under funds the burocracy thats needed to collect it, we can pay the running cost from out income tax and then pay higher prices in the shops to pay the insufficient tax we are paying to collect!!!
sorry, the UK haulage industry have been undercut by our European counterparts for many many years, driving businesses to ruination and taking jobs from UK taxpayers. european hualiers fuel up on the cintinent, with HUGE fuel tanks, so they dont have to pay uk fuel duty, run heavier loads, so they damage our roads more, and the condition of the wagons and drivers are far below the standards we in the UK have to maintain, so thier running costs are lower, but the vehicles are much more dangerous to have on our roads.
you can find any amount of VOSA stats that say there are a higher %age of UK hauliers that run bad motors, but thats because almost EVERY european truck is pulled, at 1 time or another. its only UK hauliers that have been flagged as dangerous that are pulled. you keep your wagon clean and in good condition, VOsa generally give your company a wide berth because they dont earn anything by stopping you."
Have you driven across Europe lately?
There is very little difference between our fuel prices and continental fuel prices, in fact believe it or not some countries are more expensive than us!
I'm guessing you are thinking more of the 70's and 80's....
The only difference is petrol retailers make more profits in most of Europe than in the UK because unlike here fuel duty is generally lower....if the UK government cut fuel duty here by 50p a litre on Monday morning, by start of trading on Tuesday morning the petrol companies would have put their prices up by 40p-45p a litre....there is very little that could happen now to see fuel prices dropping.....apart from new technology. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I would have thought it would be very easy to collect, they used (don't know whether they still do) to collect VAT on entry to the UK.
I would have thought they'd issue a ticket a bit like a car park on entry and they collect the money on exit or a huge fine if they've lost it.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There is tax in holland and Belgium its called benilux you pay for as many days you be in county for . Germany has a tax that is a nightmare to use, you have to plan your route and if you go off it you get fined few €175 .this is only for trucks not cars |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Just a guess, but could be a run up to introducing toll roads sometime in the future.
Gently, gengly, catchee monkey. We could all end up paying one day. |
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