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Vegans...
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"What did the show say ?" It said that for the first time ever there has been action taken targetting extreme vegans rather than animal rights activists. Extreme vegans breaking into farms and stealing animals etc... They said a lot of stuff om the show, fairly interesting but the presenter seemed to have quite a naive stand point. | |||
"What did the show say ? It said that for the first time ever there has been action taken targetting extreme vegans rather than animal rights activists. Extreme vegans breaking into farms and stealing animals etc... They said a lot of stuff om the show, fairly interesting but the presenter seemed to have quite a naive stand point." Thank you. Did the people stealing or liberating the animals have the means to look after them ? With all good intent those animals must have been traumatised | |||
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"I read something over the weekend which I didn't know. The poultry industry obviously breeds chickens for meat. Male chicks are no good for the meat trade as they don't grow fast enough. Therefore newly hatched male chicks are thrown live into grinding machines and processed into animal feed. They could gas them first, but they don't bother. Reading that genuinely shocked me.Call me naive , but I didn't know that happened. " I've seen that happening on a Facebook vid It's surprisingly quick. But don't watch it. It's a bit sad x | |||
"I read something over the weekend which I didn't know. The poultry industry obviously breeds chickens for meat. Male chicks are no good for the meat trade as they don't grow fast enough. Therefore newly hatched male chicks are thrown live into grinding machines and processed into animal feed. They could gas them first, but they don't bother. Reading that genuinely shocked me.Call me naive , but I didn't know that happened. " It’s certainly yet another good story for the vegan industry to spread but at the end of the day there’s no real way to tell the difference between a male and female chick..  | |||
"I read something over the weekend which I didn't know. The poultry industry obviously breeds chickens for meat. Male chicks are no good for the meat trade as they don't grow fast enough. Therefore newly hatched male chicks are thrown live into grinding machines and processed into animal feed. They could gas them first, but they don't bother. Reading that genuinely shocked me.Call me naive , but I didn't know that happened. " Me neither, that should be illegal.  | |||
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"I've yet to hear a decent argument against veganism to be honest. It could be true that extreme veganisms do things like this but that isn't exactly a counter argument to going vegan. Been vegan for a few years, even the taste argument doesn't hold up anymore. I don't talk about it much to be honest because often healthy debate doesn't happen, people make silly arguments for eating meat because deep down a lot of people know it's not okay. it's especially annoying how many people say they love animals but eat meat. If you wouldn't eat a dog why would you eat a pig? " Absolutely I'm not suggesting for a second but the majority of people who are vegan would do this. It's like with anything you always have people that are extremists and take things too far. | |||
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"I've yet to hear a decent argument against veganism to be honest. It could be true that extreme veganisms do things like this but that isn't exactly a counter argument to going vegan. Been vegan for a few years, even the taste argument doesn't hold up anymore. I don't talk about it much to be honest because often healthy debate doesn't happen, people make silly arguments for eating meat because deep down a lot of people know it's not okay. it's especially annoying how many people say they love animals but eat meat. If you wouldn't eat a dog why would you eat a pig? " Your case is circular. You must first establish that it is morally wrong to eat meat before you can claim that we have a moral obligation not to eat meat or that eating meat for 'taste' only is wrong. Why is it wrong? I've yet to hear an argument for veganism that isn't filled with outright lies and switching between a moral argument against eating animals and the argument against industry practices. I would like to see a vegan argue the former without interchanging. | |||
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"even if all meat consumption isn't torture, it seems to be absolutely beyond debate that the quickest and most effective way to reduce the suffering of animals and allow society to evolve beyond eating meat which it could do now, we could do it now because it's become unnecessary is to just stop eating meat. without demand factory farming would eventually shut down. just my opinion x " You're not establishing why we need to "evolve" beyond eating meat. You're beginning with your own moral framework and using circular reasoning to push your conclusions. I do not see your utopian meat-free world as an "evolution". | |||
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"I've yet to hear a decent argument against veganism to be honest. It could be true that extreme veganisms do things like this but that isn't exactly a counter argument to going vegan. Been vegan for a few years, even the taste argument doesn't hold up anymore. I don't talk about it much to be honest because often healthy debate doesn't happen, people make silly arguments for eating meat because deep down a lot of people know it's not okay. it's especially annoying how many people say they love animals but eat meat. If you wouldn't eat a dog why would you eat a pig? Your case is circular. You must first establish that it is morally wrong to eat meat before you can claim that we have a moral obligation not to eat meat or that eating meat for 'taste' only is wrong. Why is it wrong? I've yet to hear an argument for veganism that isn't filled with outright lies and switching between a moral argument against eating animals and the argument against industry practices. I would like to see a vegan argue the former without interchanging. " It's morally wrong to eat meat because you are further supporting the mass torture and slaughter of animals. Pretty basic stuff really. Oh and not really just to survive and live, lets face it. An OVERWHELMING amount of meat - food in general - is eaten out of greed or just blatantly wasted. So, aye, its shite. The only ones really who have the right idea are freegans I suppose. | |||
"even if all meat consumption isn't torture, it seems to be absolutely beyond debate that the quickest and most effective way to reduce the suffering of animals and allow society to evolve beyond eating meat which it could do now, we could do it now because it's become unnecessary is to just stop eating meat. without demand factory farming would eventually shut down. just my opinion x " "Reduce the suffering of animals". So you're going to stop animals from eating other animals? You just entertained the idea that not all meat consumption is torture. Why are humans obligated beyond lessening or eliminating pain? Why must we also not eat meat? You're not making the case. | |||
"I've yet to hear a decent argument against veganism to be honest. It could be true that extreme veganisms do things like this but that isn't exactly a counter argument to going vegan. Been vegan for a few years, even the taste argument doesn't hold up anymore. I don't talk about it much to be honest because often healthy debate doesn't happen, people make silly arguments for eating meat because deep down a lot of people know it's not okay. it's especially annoying how many people say they love animals but eat meat. If you wouldn't eat a dog why would you eat a pig? Your case is circular. You must first establish that it is morally wrong to eat meat before you can claim that we have a moral obligation not to eat meat or that eating meat for 'taste' only is wrong. Why is it wrong? I've yet to hear an argument for veganism that isn't filled with outright lies and switching between a moral argument against eating animals and the argument against industry practices. I would like to see a vegan argue the former without interchanging. " I'm not arguing either way I was just commenting on an open forum about an experience that I've been told about I don't want to be preached to. | |||
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" Okay i believe it is wrong morally because I believe partaking in something that causes the suffering and deaths of millions of sentient beings when it could by adopting an alternative lifestyle be avoided is morally wrong. why bother eating meat when by adopting a vegetarian/vegan diet all of that pain and death can be avoided. the question isn't 'why is it wrong' when talking about eating meat the question is 'why is it right?' " If the sentience of animals qualifies them to not be eaten by us then it should also qualify them to be stopped from eating each other.. would you agree? If animals are equal to us then we are animals just like them and we can eat them. If you say that we should be held to a "higher standard" then that means we are superior to animals and therefore we can eat them. You are admitting that our form of sentience is higher than animal sentience. It is not the same as humans. And again, what you're calling "suffering" is dependant upon a particular interpretation which says that all killing is "suffering" which is quite wrong. When compared to the animal kingdom, humans cause the very least suffering when slaughtering an animal because we actually ensure that it is dead before we eat it. When animals are killed in the wild they are eaten ALIVE! Our only obligation is to lessen or eliminate pain and I think we do a hell of a better job than animals so we are not causing "suffering". Furthermore, you're not making a case that just because there is some pain that we shouldn't eat animals. | |||
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"It's morally wrong to eat meat because you are further supporting the mass torture and slaughter of animals. Pretty basic stuff really. Oh and not really just to survive and live, lets face it. An OVERWHELMING amount of meat - food in general - is eaten out of greed or just blatantly wasted. So, aye, its shite. The only ones really who have the right idea are freegans I suppose. yes thank you. it doesn't seem to me that morally there needs to be much further justification but to be honest throughout history it's been difficult because when something is established as being morally okay even when it obviously isn't. change is not immediate. If something will reduce suffering that is enough for me." You're slipping back into the mass torture hysteria which is an argument against some INDUSTRY practices and NOT the subject of eating meat outright.. which is exactly what I mentioned earlier. It is a tactic vegans always use. They are not the same. We can eliminate certain industry practices and still eat meat. It is NOT torture! Torture is causing deliberate and unnecessary pain! You haven't established that eating meat is unnecessary and you haven't established that it is necessary to torture an animal in order to eat it so you're using circular reasoning and arguing from arbitrary emotionality. | |||
"We have the capacity for compassion and reason so yes we should be held to I higher standard. Also, we as a species have the choice to choose a different way. Animals dont...?" That means we are superior to animals and therefore we can eat them. You can't argue that they are equal to us in sentience and then argue that we have superior cognitive functions that holds us to higher standards of decision making. | |||
"I've yet to hear a decent argument against veganism to be honest. It could be true that extreme veganisms do things like this but that isn't exactly a counter argument to going vegan. Been vegan for a few years, even the taste argument doesn't hold up anymore. I don't talk about it much to be honest because often healthy debate doesn't happen, people make silly arguments for eating meat because deep down a lot of people know it's not okay. it's especially annoying how many people say they love animals but eat meat. If you wouldn't eat a dog why would you eat a pig? " Well said. | |||
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"We have the capacity for compassion and reason so yes we should be held to I higher standard. Also, we as a species have the choice to choose a different way. Animals dont...? That means we are superior to animals and therefore we can eat them. You can't argue that they are equal to us in sentience and then argue that we have superior cognitive functions that holds us to higher standards of decision making. " Your obsession with superior is baffling. We are just as evolved as a slug, in essence. We just have the ability to choose whether or not we should eat animals. Eating animals in itself is not immoral. It is the abhorrent method. | |||
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"Eating animals in itself is not immoral." THANK YOU! "It is the abhorrent method." Right, so we're back to your disagreement with INDUSTRY PRACTICES! And since eating meat itself is not wrong, stop making this a purely VEGAN issue and usurping moral authority! We can all agree to improve industry methods but you need to stop making it about telling people that eating meat is wrong! | |||
"I've yet to hear a decent argument against veganism to be honest. It could be true that extreme veganisms do things like this but that isn't exactly a counter argument to going vegan. Been vegan for a few years, even the taste argument doesn't hold up anymore. I don't talk about it much to be honest because often healthy debate doesn't happen, people make silly arguments for eating meat because deep down a lot of people know it's not okay. it's especially annoying how many people say they love animals but eat meat. If you wouldn't eat a dog why would you eat a pig? Your case is circular. You must first establish that it is morally wrong to eat meat before you can claim that we have a moral obligation not to eat meat or that eating meat for 'taste' only is wrong. Why is it wrong? I've yet to hear an argument for veganism that isn't filled with outright lies and switching between a moral argument against eating animals and the argument against industry practices. I would like to see a vegan argue the former without interchanging. " Morally wrong reason I put forward to you Cows, pigs, goats, chickens and all the other animals consumed for meat each have intelligence of varying degrees, individual personalities and the ability to mourn. A pig with the intelligence of a 5 year old child. Which is more than dogs have. Mass farming of these animals in cramped inhumane spaces living in their own filth they become demoralised and depressed. We genetically modify them to be more productive for which they suffer for like cows with oversized udders maximising milk output constantly pregnant and having young removed. All animals in the food industry should be at least given the chance to grow and live as naturally and free as possible. They are giving their lives to go on your plate it's the least they deserve. I'm a believer these animals have souls, you can see that when you truly look into their eyes. Cows given freedom play just like children, they frolic and are joyful. Just like horses and look at the outrage when companies were using horse meat in their processed meats. Why is eating one any more acceptable than the other. Chickens have the ability to learn just as the other animals do. Their smaller brain makes them no lesser animal. My argument is this would you eat a primate? Whom of which has the same intelligence as a pig? Or does the thought that our similarities to them put you off? I'm not going to tell someone not to eat meat, do as you like just don't expect me to. Soon enough meat eaters will be surviving on a staple diet of insects given the lower carbon footprint, ability to mass produce and lower cost with higher protein ratio compared to currently farmed meat. Also I think if you want to eat meat you should have to go out select the animal you want slaughter it yourself and cut the flesh all by yourself. I guarantee most would rarely ever eat it. It comes conveniently in packaging all the nasty bits done ready for you to prep for cooking. You don't even think as to the life it's had before it went into the packaging. Out of sight out of mind. Il also add prehistoric humans rarely ate meat they were more gatherers than hunters living on plants so seeds, roots, fruits, various other vegetation and also insects. Animal bone piles of early man would have been humongous had they ate it regularly proving meat was rarely consumed. | |||
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"Eating animals in itself is not immoral. THANK YOU! It is the abhorrent method. Right, so we're back to your disagreement with INDUSTRY PRACTICES! And since eating meat itself is not wrong, stop making this a purely VEGAN issue and usurping moral authority! We can all agree to improve industry methods but you need to stop making it about telling people that eating meat is wrong! " Literally no idea what hill you're choosing to die on here. Hardly any vegan would ever say eating meat in itself is morally wrong. Probably unhealthy but not immoral, in a survival situation. But for future reference "eating meat is wrong" = "eating meat is wrong due to the abysmally evil nature in how its produced". | |||
"I take it this means you are okay with torturing animals for fun also? As we are "superior" and as such their welfare is meaningless? Worrying." Now you're being disingenuous again and I'll not speak to you anymore if you do that. Typical vegan tactic. Where did I say anything about "FUN" and "TORTURE"?? Maybe you think it's fun to torture animals as long as you're not eating them, since you seem to make this about eating meat more than addressing the industry practices! I eat meat (not industry meat) because it is necessary for nourishment. Torture is not necessary and is immoral because it is deliberate pain. Slaughter for food is necessary and my moral obligation is to lessen pain as much as possible and if there is a way to lessen pain more I opt to adopt it. But not eating the animal is not an option. Let's be mature here. | |||
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"I take it this means you are okay with torturing animals for fun also? As we are "superior" and as such their welfare is meaningless? Worrying. Now you're being disingenuous again and I'll not speak to you anymore if you do that. Typical vegan tactic. Where did I say anything about "FUN" and "TORTURE"?? Maybe you think it's fun to torture animals as long as you're not eating them, since you seem to make this about eating meat more than addressing the industry practices! I eat meat (not industry meat) because it is necessary for nourishment. Torture is not necessary and is immoral because it is deliberate pain. Slaughter for food is necessary and my moral obligation is to lessen pain as much as possible and if there is a way to lessen pain more I opt to adopt it. But not eating the animal is not an option. Let's be mature here. " Eating meat is not necessary for nourishment at all. There are so many alternatives. | |||
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"Eating animals in itself is not immoral. THANK YOU! It is the abhorrent method. Right, so we're back to your disagreement with INDUSTRY PRACTICES! And since eating meat itself is not wrong, stop making this a purely VEGAN issue and usurping moral authority! We can all agree to improve industry methods but you need to stop making it about telling people that eating meat is wrong! Literally no idea what hill you're choosing to die on here. Hardly any vegan would ever say eating meat in itself is morally wrong. Probably unhealthy but not immoral, in a survival situation. But for future reference "eating meat is wrong" = "eating meat is wrong due to the abysmally evil nature in how its produced". " This is an outright lie! A vegan in this thread is arguing that eating meat is morally wrong and I'm pointing out that he must substantiate that claim and not switch from that to talk about industry practices because they are two separate subjects. I can find some common ground with you here and appreciate that you are making the distinction so thank you. At least you're being honest that eating meat is not wrong. This means that vegans do not have a monopoly on the concern about industry practices! That's my point! Don't try to usurp moral authority on the issue simply because you aren't a meat eater. Meat eaters are also concerned and are taking measure to address the issues. So now we can talk about industry practices without your high horse. Thanks! | |||
"I'm mainly just going by your "its okay to kill and eat animals needlessly because they do not have the same cognitive reasoning as us" rule and saying you could essily justify any animal abuse that way. You know that." I'm done with you for saying "abuse" again and inserting the words "kill and eat animals NEEDLESSLY" that is a gross misrepresentation of what I said and I am confident that you're doing it deliberately. It is intellectually dishonest and gutter scholarship. I'm done. | |||
"I've yet to hear a decent argument against veganism to be honest. It could be true that extreme veganisms do things like this but that isn't exactly a counter argument to going vegan. Been vegan for a few years, even the taste argument doesn't hold up anymore. I don't talk about it much to be honest because often healthy debate doesn't happen, people make silly arguments for eating meat because deep down a lot of people know it's not okay. it's especially annoying how many people say they love animals but eat meat. If you wouldn't eat a dog why would you eat a pig? Your case is circular. You must first establish that it is morally wrong to eat meat before you can claim that we have a moral obligation not to eat meat or that eating meat for 'taste' only is wrong. Why is it wrong? I've yet to hear an argument for veganism that isn't filled with outright lies and switching between a moral argument against eating animals and the argument against industry practices. I would like to see a vegan argue the former without interchanging. Morally wrong reason I put forward to you Cows, pigs, goats, chickens and all the other animals consumed for meat each have intelligence of varying degrees, individual personalities and the ability to mourn. A pig with the intelligence of a 5 year old child. Which is more than dogs have. Mass farming of these animals in cramped inhumane spaces living in their own filth they become demoralised and depressed. We genetically modify them to be more productive for which they suffer for like cows with oversized udders maximising milk output constantly pregnant and having young removed. All animals in the food industry should be at least given the chance to grow and live as naturally and free as possible. They are giving their lives to go on your plate it's the least they deserve. I'm a believer these animals have souls, you can see that when you truly look into their eyes. Cows given freedom play just like children, they frolic and are joyful. Just like horses and look at the outrage when companies were using horse meat in their processed meats. Why is eating one any more acceptable than the other. Chickens have the ability to learn just as the other animals do. Their smaller brain makes them no lesser animal. My argument is this would you eat a primate? Whom of which has the same intelligence as a pig? Or does the thought that our similarities to them put you off? I'm not going to tell someone not to eat meat, do as you like just don't expect me to. Soon enough meat eaters will be surviving on a staple diet of insects given the lower carbon footprint, ability to mass produce and lower cost with higher protein ratio compared to currently farmed meat. Also I think if you want to eat meat you should have to go out select the animal you want slaughter it yourself and cut the flesh all by yourself. I guarantee most would rarely ever eat it. It comes conveniently in packaging all the nasty bits done ready for you to prep for cooking. You don't even think as to the life it's had before it went into the packaging. Out of sight out of mind. Il also add prehistoric humans rarely ate meat they were more gatherers than hunters living on plants so seeds, roots, fruits, various other vegetation and also insects. Animal bone piles of early man would have been humongous had they ate it regularly proving meat was rarely consumed." You've done exactly what I've been saying vegans do which is to conflate an argument against INDUSTRY PRACTICE'S with an argument against eating meat outright. Stop switching between the two! They are not interchangeable! When I say that eating meat is not wrong, you must prove that it is wrong even if the industry was treating animals the way we are suggesting they should. You have made a case for changing industry practices which I AGREE WITH! My concern is that you feel I should BECOME A VEGAN and I'm saying that that is not commensurate with your claim and argument. You haven't argued against eating meat outright, you've argued about industry practices which vegans do not have a monopoly over. Pardon my caps, it's not shouting, just for emphasis. | |||
"I've yet to hear a decent argument against veganism to be honest. It could be true that extreme veganisms do things like this but that isn't exactly a counter argument to going vegan. Been vegan for a few years, even the taste argument doesn't hold up anymore. I don't talk about it much to be honest because often healthy debate doesn't happen, people make silly arguments for eating meat because deep down a lot of people know it's not okay. it's especially annoying how many people say they love animals but eat meat. If you wouldn't eat a dog why would you eat a pig? Your case is circular. You must first establish that it is morally wrong to eat meat before you can claim that we have a moral obligation not to eat meat or that eating meat for 'taste' only is wrong. Why is it wrong? I've yet to hear an argument for veganism that isn't filled with outright lies and switching between a moral argument against eating animals and the argument against industry practices. I would like to see a vegan argue the former without interchanging. Morally wrong reason I put forward to you Cows, pigs, goats, chickens and all the other animals consumed for meat each have intelligence of varying degrees, individual personalities and the ability to mourn. A pig with the intelligence of a 5 year old child. Which is more than dogs have. Mass farming of these animals in cramped inhumane spaces living in their own filth they become demoralised and depressed. We genetically modify them to be more productive for which they suffer for like cows with oversized udders maximising milk output constantly pregnant and having young removed. All animals in the food industry should be at least given the chance to grow and live as naturally and free as possible. They are giving their lives to go on your plate it's the least they deserve. I'm a believer these animals have souls, you can see that when you truly look into their eyes. Cows given freedom play just like children, they frolic and are joyful. Just like horses and look at the outrage when companies were using horse meat in their processed meats. Why is eating one any more acceptable than the other. Chickens have the ability to learn just as the other animals do. Their smaller brain makes them no lesser animal. My argument is this would you eat a primate? Whom of which has the same intelligence as a pig? Or does the thought that our similarities to them put you off? I'm not going to tell someone not to eat meat, do as you like just don't expect me to. Soon enough meat eaters will be surviving on a staple diet of insects given the lower carbon footprint, ability to mass produce and lower cost with higher protein ratio compared to currently farmed meat. Also I think if you want to eat meat you should have to go out select the animal you want slaughter it yourself and cut the flesh all by yourself. I guarantee most would rarely ever eat it. It comes conveniently in packaging all the nasty bits done ready for you to prep for cooking. You don't even think as to the life it's had before it went into the packaging. Out of sight out of mind. Il also add prehistoric humans rarely ate meat they were more gatherers than hunters living on plants so seeds, roots, fruits, various other vegetation and also insects. Animal bone piles of early man would have been humongous had they ate it regularly proving meat was rarely consumed. You've done exactly what I've been saying vegans do which is to conflate an argument against INDUSTRY PRACTICE'S with an argument against eating meat outright. Stop switching between the two! They are not interchangeable! When I say that eating meat is not wrong, you must prove that it is wrong even if the industry was treating animals the way we are suggesting they should. You have made a case for changing industry practices which I AGREE WITH! My concern is that you feel I should BECOME A VEGAN and I'm saying that that is not commensurate with your claim and argument. You haven't argued against eating meat outright, you've argued about industry practices which vegans do not have a monopoly over. Pardon my caps, it's not shouting, just for emphasis. " I've not said anyone should become vegan what so ever People eat too much meat increasing cholesterol levels from the unhealthy saturated fats and unhealthy proteins the body can't metabolise properly. High meat diets have been proven to increase cancer There is no proof we need to eat meat at all. There are societies that never eat meat. They suffer no ill health from not eating it. I'm also vegetarian not vegan. Have been since I was 7 my choice I grew up in a household that ate meat 3 times a day. Difficult as a child living in a house where a parent refuses to cook meals saying they don't know how to cook "vegetarian crap" I learnt to cook from an early age I see eating animals is the same as eating infants and young children. They have the same intelligence levels, the same behaviours. But it's morally wrong in our society to be cannibalistic | |||
" I've not said anyone should become vegan what so ever" Applause! "People eat too much meat increasing cholesterol levels from the unhealthy saturated fats and unhealthy proteins the body can't metabolise properly." Ok first off all we need to stop saying "meat" as if all meat is the same. It is not! There are very unhealthy meats, such as pork and also meats from animals raised with hormones and other bad industry practices. This is not the same when talking about organic, free-range animals that are healthier to eat. You must make a distinction in the studies that look at health overall and eliminate pork etc to see what is really causing the I'll health. Saying they eat "too much" is the same as saying drinking "too much" water... It doesn't make water itself unhealthy, it only demonstrates that people make bad dieting choices based on lifestyle. Furthermore this is an outright falsehood that the body cannot metabolise meat. An outright lie (not calling you a liar). Of course we metabolise it. "High meat diets have been proven to increase cancer" Status:FALSE The cancer and disease is caused by a combination of things in the modern diet which are extremely deleterious to health such as; Blood (meat slaughtered incorrectly containing blood and not cooked correctly) Pork (Big one) Refined sugars Radiation Carcinogens from fried foods (the preferred method in which the meat is cooked is the issue, not just the meat) Processed meats (cold cuts) Alcohol Obesity Dehydration (lack of sufficient water consumption) Lack of exercise Lack of sleep Stress Malnutrition (not eating sufficient green leaf vegetables and fibre) Unless you can cite a study which tests subjects who have eliminated all of these factors you cannot say/claim that eating meat itself is unhealthy. There are clearly cultural practices in the diet and lifestyle that causes illnesses. Vegans tend to become more health conscious and they eliminate these things from their diets, otherwise they will be very unhealthy too. It has nothing to do with meat itself. The cooking and types of meat and blood etc. are factors. It's false and dangerous lying to people telling them that meat causes cancer when there are so many factors they must be aware of. It is much more complex than that. Vegans are doing a lazy and disingenuous job of informing the public. It is reckless and selfish. "There is no proof we need to eat meat at all. There are societies that never eat meat. They suffer no ill health from not eating it." Meat is food! We do need to eat it. And there are plenty of people who are on meat only diets (carnivore diet) proving also that we don't need to eat vegetables to survive either! So what is your point here? In fact, look up the stories of vegans who had to begin eating meat again because they were becoming severely ill from lack of meat. This is a serious thing. "I see eating animals is the same as eating infants and young children. They have the same intelligence levels, the same behaviours. But it's morally wrong in our society to be cannibalistic " Ok, apart from the fact that you just contradicted your first statement when you said you aren't telling anyone they should become vegan and now you're saying it's morally wrong... This is an absolute crazy-making suggestion that eating animals is the range as eating children omg! Okay first of all. Human children are, in principle, expected to develop in cognitive ability and intelligence as they grow into adults whereas adult animals cannot. Therefore a human child is more intelligent developmentally because they are expected to increase in sentience. An adult animal will not increase in sentience. Animals are never as intelligent as a child because they are functioning at their terminal brain capacity whereas the child is learning and maturing beyond. This means that they are definitely not having similar understanding. So, the comparison is to show the stagnant ability of the animal in relation to a STAGE of the human, not to be imposed upon the human in relation to a stage of the animal. So that's misapplied. C'mon, you don't really believe that it's the same as eating kids. | |||
"I've yet to hear a decent argument against veganism to be honest. It could be true that extreme veganisms do things like this but that isn't exactly a counter argument to going vegan. Been vegan for a few years, even the taste argument doesn't hold up anymore. I don't talk about it much to be honest because often healthy debate doesn't happen, people make silly arguments for eating meat because deep down a lot of people know it's not okay. it's especially annoying how many people say they love animals but eat meat. If you wouldn't eat a dog why would you eat a pig? " lots of animals eat meat . Why is it just wrong for humans ? | |||
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" I've not said anyone should become vegan what so ever Applause! People eat too much meat increasing cholesterol levels from the unhealthy saturated fats and unhealthy proteins the body can't metabolise properly. Ok first off all we need to stop saying "meat" as if all meat is the same. It is not! There are very unhealthy meats, such as pork and also meats from animals raised with hormones and other bad industry practices. This is not the same when talking about organic, free-range animals that are healthier to eat. You must make a distinction in the studies that look at health overall and eliminate pork etc to see what is really causing the I'll health. Saying they eat "too much" is the same as saying drinking "too much" water... It doesn't make water itself unhealthy, it only demonstrates that people make bad dieting choices based on lifestyle. Furthermore this is an outright falsehood that the body cannot metabolise meat. An outright lie (not calling you a liar). Of course we metabolise it. High meat diets have been proven to increase cancer Status:FALSE The cancer and disease is caused by a combination of things in the modern diet which are extremely deleterious to health such as; Blood (meat slaughtered incorrectly containing blood and not cooked correctly) Pork (Big one) Refined sugars Radiation Carcinogens from fried foods (the preferred method in which the meat is cooked is the issue, not just the meat) Processed meats (cold cuts) Alcohol Obesity Dehydration (lack of sufficient water consumption) Lack of exercise Lack of sleep Stress Malnutrition (not eating sufficient green leaf vegetables and fibre) Unless you can cite a study which tests subjects who have eliminated all of these factors you cannot say/claim that eating meat itself is unhealthy. There are clearly cultural practices in the diet and lifestyle that causes illnesses. Vegans tend to become more health conscious and they eliminate these things from their diets, otherwise they will be very unhealthy too. It has nothing to do with meat itself. The cooking and types of meat and blood etc. are factors. It's false and dangerous lying to people telling them that meat causes cancer when there are so many factors they must be aware of. It is much more complex than that. Vegans are doing a lazy and disingenuous job of informing the public. It is reckless and selfish. There is no proof we need to eat meat at all. There are societies that never eat meat. They suffer no ill health from not eating it. Meat is food! We do need to eat it. And there are plenty of people who are on meat only diets (carnivore diet) proving also that we don't need to eat vegetables to survive either! So what is your point here? In fact, look up the stories of vegans who had to begin eating meat again because they were becoming severely ill from lack of meat. This is a serious thing. I see eating animals is the same as eating infants and young children. They have the same intelligence levels, the same behaviours. But it's morally wrong in our society to be cannibalistic Ok, apart from the fact that you just contradicted your first statement when you said you aren't telling anyone they should become vegan and now you're saying it's morally wrong... This is an absolute crazy-making suggestion that eating animals is the range as eating children omg! Okay first of all. Human children are, in principle, expected to develop in cognitive ability and intelligence as they grow into adults whereas adult animals cannot. Therefore a human child is more intelligent developmentally because they are expected to increase in sentience. An adult animal will not increase in sentience. Animals are never as intelligent as a child because they are functioning at their terminal brain capacity whereas the child is learning and maturing beyond. This means that they are definitely not having similar understanding. So, the comparison is to show the stagnant ability of the animal in relation to a STAGE of the human, not to be imposed upon the human in relation to a stage of the animal. So that's misapplied. C'mon, you don't really believe that it's the same as eating kids. " The end of my last comment is what I see how I feel and my reasoning as to why I don't eat meat. It was my opinion. I can't digest animal proteins. I'm lactose intolerant, I can't physically digest fish eating meat makes me sick. All of which I found out as a teenager. My choice of becoming vegetarian seems was more than how I felt about animals welfare. I stopped drinking milk at 13 when I was diagnosed lactose intolerant I ingest milk products and occasionally a milk shake as treats. Cheese is my weakness I choose to suffer the effects of that. Just as people choose to eat meat. Pork is considered unhealthy due to the fact it's omnivorous and will eat carcasses. Bacon is because of the chemicals used Rule of thumb don't eat carnivorous animals due to parasites it ingests Beef contains tapeworm eggs which is why it should be thoroughly cooked If animals are given the chance to live and learn you would see increase of their ability to learn. Considering the amount of humans on this planet most of which don't have the ability to surpass average intelligence does that mean those of lower intelligence and lack the ability to learn substantial amounts of information mean they can be food? Animals eat meat but they kill for necessity eg the big cats, lions, tigers, panthers, etc are carnivorous cannot survive on any other diet. They absorb on average 40% of the meat protein that's consumed Not the most efficient digestive system They don't kill take a bite and throw it away. They consume as much as they can what's left is there for scavengers circle of life Humans are greedy and wasteful So we cannot compare animals eating meat to us. Our species kills for sport, kills our own kind, destroys what ever humans wish to destroy and slaughters what ever we like because we believe we have the right to Humans aren't meant to consume so much meat as I mentioned previously. We aren't meant to consume animals milk what so ever. Their milk is biologically designed to nurture their young just as ours is for our infants. Would you drink human milk if offered? | |||
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"I've yet to hear a decent argument against veganism to be honest. It could be true that extreme veganisms do things like this but that isn't exactly a counter argument to going vegan. Been vegan for a few years, even the taste argument doesn't hold up anymore. I don't talk about it much to be honest because often healthy debate doesn't happen, people make silly arguments for eating meat because deep down a lot of people know it's not okay. it's especially annoying how many people say they love animals but eat meat. If you wouldn't eat a dog why would you eat a pig? " I'd eat a dog so I'm OK being a meat eater | |||
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"I read something over the weekend which I didn't know. The poultry industry obviously breeds chickens for meat. Male chicks are no good for the meat trade as they don't grow fast enough. Therefore newly hatched male chicks are thrown live into grinding machines and processed into animal feed. They could gas them first, but they don't bother. Reading that genuinely shocked me.Call me naive , but I didn't know that happened. It’s certainly yet another good story for the vegan industry to spread but at the end of the day there’s no real way to tell the difference between a male and female chick.. "There is lol it's an actual job sexing day old chicks  | |||
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"There is no argument in my eyes. It all comes down to a matter of choice. I have vegan friends and they have made the choice but like religion it's a lifestyle that should not be forced down other people's throats. " Ah at last, the voice of reason... | |||
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I didn't see the programme the OP is talking about - but I have seen similar things and heard about similar practices.
There is no doubt in my mind that these practices are wrong.
Am I one of the majority that can block it out when I buy it from the supermarket?
Yes I am.
I feel guilty about it.
I also feel extremely sad about how people are treated world wide.
I live in my little bubble and I am one of the many that don't want to take it on board | |||
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"This is truly a first world problem...... Go to any slum in the 3rd world and you won’t find any Vegans.... I have many Vegetarian and Vegan friends..... This is what I observed..... They’re not healthier or in better shape then us meet eaters.... The amount of carbs and sugar they eat is astonishing...." Not technically true, ahem, India. But it's white veganism that's the problem. Indian veganism is way more ethical. White veganism feeds capitalism, exploits brown people and destroys/overinflates prices of many native food sources. | |||
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"Vegan here. You csn show most people entire hour long videos of the sausage making of the food industry, the cruelty, the torture, the slaughter etc. Genuinely wouldnt matter a jot. Most people are very aware of how animals are treated and dont give a shite. Sadly vegans/vegetarians are pretty maligned still, so I keep my head down." Hi fellow vegan. I keep my head down here too, because vegans do tend to be maligned on here & in the media. I have had arguments with the extreme activist before, because I feel that using violence is never going to get people to listen. I became vegan after seeing friends becoming vegan and reading about their reasons. I always ignored the message when it came from shock tactics or aggression! Personally I would never go back to meat eating, but do eat eggs from friends’ pet hens & would go back to dairy if I knew for sure the industry used humane practices. Unfortunately at the moment they’re industries that forgot that their products are sentient beings that can get traumatised from having their young removed, or being separated from their herd. | |||
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" Would you drink human milk if offered? " Would be tempted if straight from the udder  | |||
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"We aren't meant to consume animals milk what so ever. Their milk is biologically designed to nurture their young just as ours is for our infants. " This is true only for african/asian people. lactose tolerance is sometimes called "The white gene", because it is a white person thing. In white groups that mixed little, lactose tolerance is 100% 2-3 thousand years ago white people on the british isles were travelling around with milkable animals making butter/cheese. White people are 100% meant to drink milk, they evolved to do it. | |||
"We aren't meant to consume animals milk what so ever. Their milk is biologically designed to nurture their young just as ours is for our infants. This is true only for african/asian people. lactose tolerance is sometimes called "The white gene", because it is a white person thing. In white groups that mixed little, lactose tolerance is 100% 2-3 thousand years ago white people on the british isles were travelling around with milkable animals making butter/cheese. White people are 100% meant to drink milk, they evolved to do it. " An interesting fact, sir, well done. Also i would point out that no one has died as a result of eating a pork chop - unless they ch*ked on it which is hardly the fault of the dead pig. Yet thousands of people are rushed to hospital or die each year from eating plant based foodstuffs. | |||
"We aren't meant to consume animals milk what so ever. Their milk is biologically designed to nurture their young just as ours is for our infants. This is true only for african/asian people. lactose tolerance is sometimes called "The white gene", because it is a white person thing. In white groups that mixed little, lactose tolerance is 100% 2-3 thousand years ago white people on the british isles were travelling around with milkable animals making butter/cheese. White people are 100% meant to drink milk, they evolved to do it. " It's called tolerating. We feed our young from the age of 1 on fresh cows milk from the day they were born on powdered cows milk if not breast fed. They build a tolerance. Milk causes many health issues. Looks at the population who have excema cutting out milk from their diet improves their condition and even eliminate it by cutting all milk products from their diet. Same can be said for IBS Same can be said for a lot of foods takes chillies for example. People build a tolerance for eating them. In all actual fact we shouldn't eat them. But people enjoy them that burn you get when consuming them is meant to deter you from eating them. Same with extremely sour and bitter foods. Having a tolerance to the foods doesn't mean you've evolved. | |||
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"I'm vegetarian, have been my whole Life, 27 years. I'm not vegan and have no desire to be. I have nothing against vegans its just the ones that get up in your face about it ranting on about it. If you chose to be vegan then fantastic, you're better than me! I am veggie now as an adult out of choice, I was brought up as one as my parents didn't eat meat and my Dad still doesn't. I chose to be one still as I quite simply don't want to eat animals and have no desire to. But I don't go on to people why they should be one. "This is honestly a myth. I know countless vegetarians who have learnt to keep their ideologies to themselves and the harrassment comes from everyone else. | |||
"We aren't meant to consume animals milk what so ever. Their milk is biologically designed to nurture their young just as ours is for our infants. This is true only for african/asian people. lactose tolerance is sometimes called "The white gene", because it is a white person thing. In white groups that mixed little, lactose tolerance is 100% 2-3 thousand years ago white people on the british isles were travelling around with milkable animals making butter/cheese. White people are 100% meant to drink milk, they evolved to do it. It's called tolerating. We feed our young from the age of 1 on fresh cows milk from the day they were born on powdered cows milk if not breast fed. They build a tolerance. Milk causes many health issues. Looks at the population who have excema cutting out milk from their diet improves their condition and even eliminate it by cutting all milk products from their diet. Same can be said for IBS Same can be said for a lot of foods takes chillies for example. People build a tolerance for eating them. In all actual fact we shouldn't eat them. But people enjoy them that burn you get when consuming them is meant to deter you from eating them. Same with extremely sour and bitter foods. Having a tolerance to the foods doesn't mean you've evolved." A physiological adaptation is an evolutionary step if it is the result of genetic mutation. Your comparison to chillies is flawed. | |||
"I read something over the weekend which I didn't know. The poultry industry obviously breeds chickens for meat. Male chicks are no good for the meat trade as they don't grow fast enough. Therefore newly hatched male chicks are thrown live into grinding machines and processed into animal feed. They could gas them first, but they don't bother. Reading that genuinely shocked me.Call me naive , but I didn't know that happened. " Some chicks get gassed and sent to make animal feed for falconry, snakes, etc. | |||
" It's called tolerating. We feed our young from the age of 1 on fresh cows milk from the day they were born on powdered cows milk if not breast fed. They build a tolerance. Milk causes many health issues. Looks at the population who have excema cutting out milk from their diet improves their condition and even eliminate it by cutting all milk products from their diet. Same can be said for IBS Same can be said for a lot of foods takes chillies for example. People build a tolerance for eating them. In all actual fact we shouldn't eat them. But people enjoy them that burn you get when consuming them is meant to deter you from eating them. Same with extremely sour and bitter foods. Having a tolerance to the foods doesn't mean you've evolved." Look up 'Meat Cures Vegans' on YouTube to find the plethora of testimonials of vegans who nearly died and suffered extremely ill health until they returned to eating meat. These are folk who followed the vegan regimin as it should be followed and developed ill health as a result. This is serious. https://youtu.be/UMQ4zSgLASs Vegans cannot survive with suppliments. Every single one of them use suppliments because it's a lie that vegans can survive on veg alone without health problems. Peppers, onions, and garlic are meant to be eaten with meat. That's why vegans don't do well with these herbs. Nature has given us fire and also herbs that are eaten with meat that kill bacteria and aid digestion. By your logic about milk, eating raw vegetables is unnatural because it gives you stomach gripe when you start. Lemon is also unnatural since it is very bitter, and so on. I think you're just making things up as you go along. For someone who claims not to be a vegan you sure are trying hard to make a case against animal products. I've never met a lactose intolerant white european. If they have evolved this ability then it is evolution. Yes it's tolerance... an evolved tolerance! | |||
"Having a tolerance to the foods doesn't mean you've evolved." Google it, its a gene that gives you lactose tolerance, not exposure. Even to this day, the tallest/biggest white nation have a traditional diet of beef/cheese/milk as children. It's proven you can not grow to your full height without it. It's just outdated terminology that the word tolerance was used. If you dont have the gene you will lose your ability to process milk as you age, if you do have it you wont lose your ability to process milk. | |||
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"What i want a vegan to tell me is what would they do with all the animalls. Cant have cows, pigs,and sheep wondering around wild. So no more cattle. Would they want for them to end up like the doe doe. " I have never met a vegan who has answered this question! | |||
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" It's called tolerating. We feed our young from the age of 1 on fresh cows milk from the day they were born on powdered cows milk if not breast fed. They build a tolerance. Milk causes many health issues. Looks at the population who have excema cutting out milk from their diet improves their condition and even eliminate it by cutting all milk products from their diet. Same can be said for IBS Same can be said for a lot of foods takes chillies for example. People build a tolerance for eating them. In all actual fact we shouldn't eat them. But people enjoy them that burn you get when consuming them is meant to deter you from eating them. Same with extremely sour and bitter foods. Having a tolerance to the foods doesn't mean you've evolved. Look up 'Meat Cures Vegans' on YouTube to find the plethora of testimonials of vegans who nearly died and suffered extremely ill health until they returned to eating meat. These are folk who followed the vegan regimin as it should be followed and developed ill health as a result. This is serious. https://youtu.be/UMQ4zSgLASs Vegans cannot survive with suppliments. Every single one of them use suppliments because it's a lie that vegans can survive on veg alone without health problems. Peppers, onions, and garlic are meant to be eaten with meat. That's why vegans don't do well with these herbs. Nature has given us fire and also herbs that are eaten with meat that kill bacteria and aid digestion. By your logic about milk, eating raw vegetables is unnatural because it gives you stomach gripe when you start. Lemon is also unnatural since it is very bitter, and so on. I think you're just making things up as you go along. For someone who claims not to be a vegan you sure are trying hard to make a case against animal products. I've never met a lactose intolerant white european. If they have evolved this ability then it is evolution. Yes it's tolerance... an evolved tolerance! " I'm suddenly not a white European then. I'm an ovo lacto vegetarian that thinks animals deserve to be treated better before you eat them. I'm fat I smoke I eat cheese when I shouldn't I eat milk chocolate all knowing I shouldn't. I cannot physically digest fish I haven't attempted to try meat again I don't miss it I don't crave it. I don't take multivitamins My child was given meat and chose not to eat all meats, and is also lactose intolerant. I purchase free range eggs and purchase products using only free range eggs. I don't use products tested on animals I don't wear leather I don't use leather I think all products tested on animals should be tested on humans instead. That includes drugs no animal needs testing on when we have prisons full of useful individuals who need to pay a debt to society. May as well make use of drugs on humans by testing them on humans. Testing on animals rarely gives the result your looking for because we are so physiologically different I don't take offence to people eating meat I can even cook it. I take offence when people don't care about the lives that they consume. Ignorance or blatant lack of empathy for their suffering. Food that's free to roam and interact naturally are better to eat. Yes it costs more but I'd say it's worth it. For those who buy battery farmed eggs because it's cheaper. When free range is better all round for the animals just a little more expensive. Support your local farms daily fresh eggs and support the smaller businesses. Eat what you like it's your body but at least think about where it comes from. | |||
"What i want a vegan to tell me is what would they do with all the animalls. Cant have cows, pigs,and sheep wondering around wild. So no more cattle. Would they want for them to end up like the doe doe. I have never met a vegan who has answered this question! " Wow you do realise we are living in the anthropocene the 6th extinction event in earths history.Its a direct result of human activities. Given a choice between a large farmed mammals and the death of the oceans and rainforest species .I'd like pigs and cows go extinct for sure rather than 10s of thousands of other species. The needs of the many out weigh the needs if the few..
Diversity in nature is more important for the longevity of our species . | |||
" It's called tolerating. We feed our young from the age of 1 on fresh cows milk from the day they were born on powdered cows milk if not breast fed. They build a tolerance. Milk causes many health issues. Looks at the population who have excema cutting out milk from their diet improves their condition and even eliminate it by cutting all milk products from their diet. Same can be said for IBS Same can be said for a lot of foods takes chillies for example. People build a tolerance for eating them. In all actual fact we shouldn't eat them. But people enjoy them that burn you get when consuming them is meant to deter you from eating them. Same with extremely sour and bitter foods. Having a tolerance to the foods doesn't mean you've evolved. Look up 'Meat Cures Vegans' on YouTube to find the plethora of testimonials of vegans who nearly died and suffered extremely ill health until they returned to eating meat. These are folk who followed the vegan regimin as it should be followed and developed ill health as a result. This is serious. https://youtu.be/UMQ4zSgLASs Vegans cannot survive with suppliments. Every single one of them use suppliments because it's a lie that vegans can survive on veg alone without health problems. Peppers, onions, and garlic are meant to be eaten with meat. That's why vegans don't do well with these herbs. Nature has given us fire and also herbs that are eaten with meat that kill bacteria and aid digestion. By your logic about milk, eating raw vegetables is unnatural because it gives you stomach gripe when you start. Lemon is also unnatural since it is very bitter, and so on. I think you're just making things up as you go along. For someone who claims not to be a vegan you sure are trying hard to make a case against animal products. I've never met a lactose intolerant white european. If they have evolved this ability then it is evolution. Yes it's tolerance... an evolved tolerance! I'm suddenly not a white European then. I'm an ovo lacto vegetarian that thinks animals deserve to be treated better before you eat them. I'm fat I smoke I eat cheese when I shouldn't I eat milk chocolate all knowing I shouldn't. I cannot physically digest fish I haven't attempted to try meat again I don't miss it I don't crave it. I don't take multivitamins My child was given meat and chose not to eat all meats, and is also lactose intolerant. I purchase free range eggs and purchase products using only free range eggs. I don't use products tested on animals I don't wear leather I don't use leather I think all products tested on animals should be tested on humans instead. That includes drugs no animal needs testing on when we have prisons full of useful individuals who need to pay a debt to society. May as well make use of drugs on humans by testing them on humans. Testing on animals rarely gives the result your looking for because we are so physiologically different I don't take offence to people eating meat I can even cook it. I take offence when people don't care about the lives that they consume. Ignorance or blatant lack of empathy for their suffering. Food that's free to roam and interact naturally are better to eat. Yes it costs more but I'd say it's worth it. For those who buy battery farmed eggs because it's cheaper. When free range is better all round for the animals just a little more expensive. Support your local farms daily fresh eggs and support the smaller businesses. Eat what you like it's your body but at least think about where it comes from." I was just wondering if you put so much thought into where your clothes come from, and the conditions the so called sweat shop kids are kept in. Just a thought for consideration | |||
" It's called tolerating. We feed our young from the age of 1 on fresh cows milk from the day they were born on powdered cows milk if not breast fed. They build a tolerance. Milk causes many health issues. Looks at the population who have excema cutting out milk from their diet improves their condition and even eliminate it by cutting all milk products from their diet. Same can be said for IBS Same can be said for a lot of foods takes chillies for example. People build a tolerance for eating them. In all actual fact we shouldn't eat them. But people enjoy them that burn you get when consuming them is meant to deter you from eating them. Same with extremely sour and bitter foods. Having a tolerance to the foods doesn't mean you've evolved. Look up 'Meat Cures Vegans' on YouTube to find the plethora of testimonials of vegans who nearly died and suffered extremely ill health until they returned to eating meat. These are folk who followed the vegan regimin as it should be followed and developed ill health as a result. This is serious. https://youtu.be/UMQ4zSgLASs Vegans cannot survive with suppliments. Every single one of them use suppliments because it's a lie that vegans can survive on veg alone without health problems. Peppers, onions, and garlic are meant to be eaten with meat. That's why vegans don't do well with these herbs. Nature has given us fire and also herbs that are eaten with meat that kill bacteria and aid digestion. By your logic about milk, eating raw vegetables is unnatural because it gives you stomach gripe when you start. Lemon is also unnatural since it is very bitter, and so on. I think you're just making things up as you go along. For someone who claims not to be a vegan you sure are trying hard to make a case against animal products. I've never met a lactose intolerant white european. If they have evolved this ability then it is evolution. Yes it's tolerance... an evolved tolerance! I'm suddenly not a white European then. I'm an ovo lacto vegetarian that thinks animals deserve to be treated better before you eat them. I'm fat I smoke I eat cheese when I shouldn't I eat milk chocolate all knowing I shouldn't. I cannot physically digest fish I haven't attempted to try meat again I don't miss it I don't crave it. I don't take multivitamins My child was given meat and chose not to eat all meats, and is also lactose intolerant. I purchase free range eggs and purchase products using only free range eggs. I don't use products tested on animals I don't wear leather I don't use leather I think all products tested on animals should be tested on humans instead. That includes drugs no animal needs testing on when we have prisons full of useful individuals who need to pay a debt to society. May as well make use of drugs on humans by testing them on humans. Testing on animals rarely gives the result your looking for because we are so physiologically different I don't take offence to people eating meat I can even cook it. I take offence when people don't care about the lives that they consume. Ignorance or blatant lack of empathy for their suffering. Food that's free to roam and interact naturally are better to eat. Yes it costs more but I'd say it's worth it. For those who buy battery farmed eggs because it's cheaper. When free range is better all round for the animals just a little more expensive. Support your local farms daily fresh eggs and support the smaller businesses. Eat what you like it's your body but at least think about where it comes from. I was just wondering if you put so much thought into where your clothes come from, and the conditions the so called sweat shop kids are kept in. Just a thought for consideration " I do but thanks, I don't by brand labels I don't shop at primark I use charity shops to buy clothes Because we live in a wasteful throwaway society most of the stuff I own is 2nd hand. I think hard on where things come from I buy ethical clothing I use ethical products | |||
"I read something over the weekend which I didn't know. The poultry industry obviously breeds chickens for meat. Male chicks are no good for the meat trade as they don't grow fast enough. Therefore newly hatched male chicks are thrown live into grinding machines and processed into animal feed. They could gas them first, but they don't bother. Reading that genuinely shocked me.Call me naive , but I didn't know that happened. " Your school obviously didn't take a trip to the chicken factory in Kirby!!! Yuk | |||
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"We aren't meant to consume animals milk what so ever. Their milk is biologically designed to nurture their young just as ours is for our infants. This is true only for african/asian people. lactose tolerance is sometimes called "The white gene", because it is a white person thing. In white groups that mixed little, lactose tolerance is 100% 2-3 thousand years ago white people on the british isles were travelling around with milkable animals making butter/cheese. White people are 100% meant to drink milk, they evolved to do it. " Why am I lactose intolerant then? | |||
"We aren't meant to consume animals milk what so ever. Their milk is biologically designed to nurture their young just as ours is for our infants. This is true only for african/asian people. lactose tolerance is sometimes called "The white gene", because it is a white person thing. In white groups that mixed little, lactose tolerance is 100% 2-3 thousand years ago white people on the british isles were travelling around with milkable animals making butter/cheese. White people are 100% meant to drink milk, they evolved to do it. Why am I lactose intolerant then?" You lack the enzyme that allows you to synthesise it. | |||
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" It's called tolerating. We feed our young from the age of 1 on fresh cows milk from the day they were born on powdered cows milk if not breast fed. They build a tolerance. Milk causes many health issues. Looks at the population who have excema cutting out milk from their diet improves their condition and even eliminate it by cutting all milk products from their diet. Same can be said for IBS Same can be said for a lot of foods takes chillies for example. People build a tolerance for eating them. In all actual fact we shouldn't eat them. But people enjoy them that burn you get when consuming them is meant to deter you from eating them. Same with extremely sour and bitter foods. Having a tolerance to the foods doesn't mean you've evolved. Look up 'Meat Cures Vegans' on YouTube to find the plethora of testimonials of vegans who nearly died and suffered extremely ill health until they returned to eating meat. These are folk who followed the vegan regimin as it should be followed and developed ill health as a result. This is serious. https://youtu.be/UMQ4zSgLASs Vegans cannot survive with suppliments. Every single one of them use suppliments because it's a lie that vegans can survive on veg alone without health problems. Peppers, onions, and garlic are meant to be eaten with meat. That's why vegans don't do well with these herbs. Nature has given us fire and also herbs that are eaten with meat that kill bacteria and aid digestion. By your logic about milk, eating raw vegetables is unnatural because it gives you stomach gripe when you start. Lemon is also unnatural since it is very bitter, and so on. I think you're just making things up as you go along. For someone who claims not to be a vegan you sure are trying hard to make a case against animal products. I've never met a lactose intolerant white european. If they have evolved this ability then it is evolution. Yes it's tolerance... an evolved tolerance! I'm suddenly not a white European then. I'm an ovo lacto vegetarian that thinks animals deserve to be treated better before you eat them. I'm fat I smoke I eat cheese when I shouldn't I eat milk chocolate all knowing I shouldn't. I cannot physically digest fish I haven't attempted to try meat again I don't miss it I don't crave it. I don't take multivitamins My child was given meat and chose not to eat all meats, and is also lactose intolerant. I purchase free range eggs and purchase products using only free range eggs. I don't use products tested on animals I don't wear leather I don't use leather I think all products tested on animals should be tested on humans instead. That includes drugs no animal needs testing on when we have prisons full of useful individuals who need to pay a debt to society. May as well make use of drugs on humans by testing them on humans. Testing on animals rarely gives the result your looking for because we are so physiologically different I don't take offence to people eating meat I can even cook it. I take offence when people don't care about the lives that they consume. Ignorance or blatant lack of empathy for their suffering. Food that's free to roam and interact naturally are better to eat. Yes it costs more but I'd say it's worth it. For those who buy battery farmed eggs because it's cheaper. When free range is better all round for the animals just a little more expensive. Support your local farms daily fresh eggs and support the smaller businesses. Eat what you like it's your body but at least think about where it comes from. I was just wondering if you put so much thought into where your clothes come from, and the conditions the so called sweat shop kids are kept in. Just a thought for consideration I do but thanks, I don't by brand labels I don't shop at primark I use charity shops to buy clothes Because we live in a wasteful throwaway society most of the stuff I own is 2nd hand. I think hard on where things come from I buy ethical clothing I use ethical products " I find many vegans and vegetarians take a holistic approach to their lifestyle choice. Thinking about all aspects of their consumerism and how it effects wildlife the environment and their fellow humans.Its rarely just about one thing. | |||
"We aren't meant to consume animals milk what so ever. Their milk is biologically designed to nurture their young just as ours is for our infants. This is true only for african/asian people. lactose tolerance is sometimes called "The white gene", because it is a white person thing. In white groups that mixed little, lactose tolerance is 100% 2-3 thousand years ago white people on the british isles were travelling around with milkable animals making butter/cheese. White people are 100% meant to drink milk, they evolved to do it. Why am I lactose intolerant then? You lack the enzyme that allows you to synthesise it." I know, the point I was making was in regard to the last line "white people are 100 per cent meant to drink milk, they evolved to do it" | |||
"We aren't meant to consume animals milk what so ever. Their milk is biologically designed to nurture their young just as ours is for our infants. This is true only for african/asian people. lactose tolerance is sometimes called "The white gene", because it is a white person thing. In white groups that mixed little, lactose tolerance is 100% 2-3 thousand years ago white people on the british isles were travelling around with milkable animals making butter/cheese. White people are 100% meant to drink milk, they evolved to do it. Why am I lactose intolerant then?" Get a DNA test. | |||
"I'm a secondary vegan. I only eat the meat of animals who are vegans." I think we should eat vegans since they go on about cannibalism so much. | |||
"I've yet to hear a decent argument against veganism to be honest. It could be true that extreme veganisms do things like this but that isn't exactly a counter argument to going vegan. Been vegan for a few years, even the taste argument doesn't hold up anymore. I don't talk about it much to be honest because often healthy debate doesn't happen, people make silly arguments for eating meat because deep down a lot of people know it's not okay. it's especially annoying how many people say they love animals but eat meat. If you wouldn't eat a dog why would you eat a pig? Your case is circular. You must first establish that it is morally wrong to eat meat before you can claim that we have a moral obligation not to eat meat or that eating meat for 'taste' only is wrong. Why is it wrong? I've yet to hear an argument for veganism that isn't filled with outright lies and switching between a moral argument against eating animals and the argument against industry practices. I would like to see a vegan argue the former without interchanging. Morally wrong reason I put forward to you Cows, pigs, goats, chickens and all the other animals consumed for meat each have intelligence of varying degrees, individual personalities and the ability to mourn. A pig with the intelligence of a 5 year old child. Which is more than dogs have. Mass farming of these animals in cramped inhumane spaces living in their own filth they become demoralised and depressed. We genetically modify them to be more productive for which they suffer for like cows with oversized udders maximising milk output constantly pregnant and having young removed. All animals in the food industry should be at least given the chance to grow and live as naturally and free as possible. They are giving their lives to go on your plate it's the least they deserve. I'm a believer these animals have souls, you can see that when you truly look into their eyes. Cows given freedom play just like children, they frolic and are joyful. Just like horses and look at the outrage when companies were using horse meat in their processed meats. Why is eating one any more acceptable than the other. Chickens have the ability to learn just as the other animals do. Their smaller brain makes them no lesser animal. My argument is this would you eat a primate? Whom of which has the same intelligence as a pig? Or does the thought that our similarities to them put you off? I'm not going to tell someone not to eat meat, do as you like just don't expect me to. Soon enough meat eaters will be surviving on a staple diet of insects given the lower carbon footprint, ability to mass produce and lower cost with higher protein ratio compared to currently farmed meat. Also I think if you want to eat meat you should have to go out select the animal you want slaughter it yourself and cut the flesh all by yourself. I guarantee most would rarely ever eat it. It comes conveniently in packaging all the nasty bits done ready for you to prep for cooking. You don't even think as to the life it's had before it went into the packaging. Out of sight out of mind. Il also add prehistoric humans rarely ate meat they were more gatherers than hunters living on plants so seeds, roots, fruits, various other vegetation and also insects. Animal bone piles of early man would have been humongous had they ate it regularly proving meat was rarely consumed. You've done exactly what I've been saying vegans do which is to conflate an argument against INDUSTRY PRACTICE'S with an argument against eating meat outright. Stop switching between the two! They are not interchangeable! When I say that eating meat is not wrong, you must prove that it is wrong even if the industry was treating animals the way we are suggesting they should. You have made a case for changing industry practices which I AGREE WITH! My concern is that you feel I should BECOME A VEGAN and I'm saying that that is not commensurate with your claim and argument. You haven't argued against eating meat outright, you've argued about industry practices which vegans do not have a monopoly over. Pardon my caps, it's not shouting, just for emphasis. I've not said anyone should become vegan what so ever People eat too much meat increasing cholesterol levels from the unhealthy saturated fats and unhealthy proteins the body can't metabolise properly. High meat diets have been proven to increase cancer There is no proof we need to eat meat at all. There are societies that never eat meat. They suffer no ill health from not eating it. I'm also vegetarian not vegan. Have been since I was 7 my choice I grew up in a household that ate meat 3 times a day. Difficult as a child living in a house where a parent refuses to cook meals saying they don't know how to cook "vegetarian crap" I learnt to cook from an early age I see eating animals is the same as eating infants and young children. They have the same intelligence levels, the same behaviours. But it's morally wrong in our society to be cannibalistic " Decent argument until you proved you're deranged. Anybody making statements like that needs mental health reviewing. | |||
"What i want a vegan to tell me is what would they do with all the animalls. Cant have cows, pigs,and sheep wondering around wild. So no more cattle. Would they want for them to end up like the doe doe. I have never met a vegan who has answered this question! Wow you do realise we are living in the anthropocene the 6th extinction event in earths history.Its a direct result of human activities. Given a choice between a large farmed mammals and the death of the oceans and rainforest species .I'd like pigs and cows go extinct for sure rather than 10s of thousands of other species. The needs of the many out weigh the needs if the few..
Diversity in nature is more important for the longevity of our species ."Sorry but dont you think there is more to killing earth than eating meat. Eating outhers for food started since earth begun with the fish and monkeys. The earths resorses like oil and gas extraction is killing the earth not people that eat meat. | |||
"We aren't meant to consume animals milk what so ever. Their milk is biologically designed to nurture their young just as ours is for our infants. This is true only for african/asian people. lactose tolerance is sometimes called "The white gene", because it is a white person thing. In white groups that mixed little, lactose tolerance is 100% 2-3 thousand years ago white people on the british isles were travelling around with milkable animals making butter/cheese. White people are 100% meant to drink milk, they evolved to do it. Why am I lactose intolerant then? You lack the enzyme that allows you to synthesise it. I know, the point I was making was in regard to the last line "white people are 100 per cent meant to drink milk, they evolved to do it"" Genetic mutation can work the other way too. It is possible that because there is less pressure on our survival that such disadvantageous mutations are no longer removed from the gene pool. An example of this is the increase in the number of people who wear glasses. It's also possible that you have Afro-asian blood in your family. A friend of mine has Indonesian blood and she's lactose intolerant. | |||
"What i want a vegan to tell me is what would they do with all the animalls. Cant have cows, pigs,and sheep wondering around wild. So no more cattle. Would they want for them to end up like the doe doe. I have never met a vegan who has answered this question! Wow you do realise we are living in the anthropocene the 6th extinction event in earths history.Its a direct result of human activities. Given a choice between a large farmed mammals and the death of the oceans and rainforest species .I'd like pigs and cows go extinct for sure rather than 10s of thousands of other species. The needs of the many out weigh the needs if the few..
Diversity in nature is more important for the longevity of our species .
Sorry but dont you think there is more to killing earth than eating meat. Eating outhers for food started since earth begun with the fish and monkeys. The earths resorses like oil and gas extraction is killing the earth not people that eat meat."If you google the effects of cattle farming on the environment you'd have an answer but I'll help you out. Cattle ranching is the largest driver of deforestation in every Amazon country, accounting for 80% of current deforestation rates. Amazon Brazil is home to approximately 200 million head of cattle, and is the largest exporter in the world, supplying about one quarter of the global market. Low input cost and easy transportation in rural areas make ranching an attractive economic activity in the forest frontier; low yields and cheap land encourage expansion and deforestation. Approximately 450,000 square kilometers of deforested Amazon in Brazil are now in cattle pasture. Cattle ranching and soy cultivation are often linked as soy replaces cattle pasture, pushing farmers farther into the Amazon. | |||
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"What i want a vegan to tell me is what would they do with all the animalls. Cant have cows, pigs,and sheep wondering around wild. So no more cattle. Would they want for them to end up like the doe doe. I have never met a vegan who has answered this question! Wow you do realise we are living in the anthropocene the 6th extinction event in earths history.Its a direct result of human activities. Given a choice between a large farmed mammals and the death of the oceans and rainforest species .I'd like pigs and cows go extinct for sure rather than 10s of thousands of other species. The needs of the many out weigh the needs if the few..
Diversity in nature is more important for the longevity of our species ."Your argument is flawed, there is far more natural diversity in an acre of pasture than there is in an acre of wheat. | |||
"What i want a vegan to tell me is what would they do with all the animalls. Cant have cows, pigs,and sheep wondering around wild. So no more cattle. Would they want for them to end up like the doe doe. I have never met a vegan who has answered this question! Wow you do realise we are living in the anthropocene the 6th extinction event in earths history.Its a direct result of human activities. Given a choice between a large farmed mammals and the death of the oceans and rainforest species .I'd like pigs and cows go extinct for sure rather than 10s of thousands of other species. The needs of the many out weigh the needs if the few..
Diversity in nature is more important for the longevity of our species .
Your argument is flawed, there is far more natural diversity in an acre of pasture than there is in an acre of wheat."Also grassland acts as a carbon sink, if you set this against livestock guffs they're probably more carbon neutral than you think. | |||
"What i want a vegan to tell me is what would they do with all the animalls. Cant have cows, pigs,and sheep wondering around wild. So no more cattle. Would they want for them to end up like the doe doe. I have never met a vegan who has answered this question! Wow you do realise we are living in the anthropocene the 6th extinction event in earths history.Its a direct result of human activities. Given a choice between a large farmed mammals and the death of the oceans and rainforest species .I'd like pigs and cows go extinct for sure rather than 10s of thousands of other species. The needs of the many out weigh the needs if the few..
Diversity in nature is more important for the longevity of our species .
Your argument is flawed, there is far more natural diversity in an acre of pasture than there is in an acre of wheat."Not if you reforest the land. Are you seriously suggesting an acre of rainforest has less diversity than a an acre of cattle pasture... | |||
"We aren't meant to consume animals milk what so ever. Their milk is biologically designed to nurture their young just as ours is for our infants. This is true only for african/asian people. lactose tolerance is sometimes called "The white gene", because it is a white person thing. In white groups that mixed little, lactose tolerance is 100% 2-3 thousand years ago white people on the british isles were travelling around with milkable animals making butter/cheese. White people are 100% meant to drink milk, they evolved to do it. Why am I lactose intolerant then? You lack the enzyme that allows you to synthesise it. I know, the point I was making was in regard to the last line "white people are 100 per cent meant to drink milk, they evolved to do it" Genetic mutation can work the other way too. It is possible that because there is less pressure on our survival that such disadvantageous mutations are no longer removed from the gene pool. An example of this is the increase in the number of people who wear glasses. It's also possible that you have Afro-asian blood in your family. A friend of mine has Indonesian blood and she's lactose intolerant." Is that increase in those that wear glasses to do with technology ie screens etc.. I will get a DNA test though as my blood type is Rhesus B neg which would indicate no lineage to Africa or Asia as far as I'm aware? | |||
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"We aren't meant to consume animals milk what so ever. Their milk is biologically designed to nurture their young just as ours is for our infants. This is true only for african/asian people. lactose tolerance is sometimes called "The white gene", because it is a white person thing. In white groups that mixed little, lactose tolerance is 100% 2-3 thousand years ago white people on the british isles were travelling around with milkable animals making butter/cheese. White people are 100% meant to drink milk, they evolved to do it. Why am I lactose intolerant then? You lack the enzyme that allows you to synthesise it. I know, the point I was making was in regard to the last line "white people are 100 per cent meant to drink milk, they evolved to do it" Genetic mutation can work the other way too. It is possible that because there is less pressure on our survival that such disadvantageous mutations are no longer removed from the gene pool. An example of this is the increase in the number of people who wear glasses. It's also possible that you have Afro-asian blood in your family. A friend of mine has Indonesian blood and she's lactose intolerant. Is that increase in those that wear glasses to do with technology ie screens etc.. I will get a DNA test though as my blood type is Rhesus B neg which would indicate no lineage to Africa or Asia as far as I'm aware? " The increase in people wearing glasses has to do with the fact that such genetic defects are no longer being removed from the gene pool due to the invention of devices that correct such flaws, ie glasses. I am short sighted, there would have been a point in history where i wouldn't have seen the wolf coming thereby removing the flaw from the gene pool so it can't be passed on. I imagine in 50 or so year's time everyone will have a sight defect of some form or another simply because technology is able to compensate. | |||
"Oceans are the largest carbon sink on earth accounting for over 90% of all carbon stored.Massive compared to grassland.Tosay we need grassland as a carbon sink is somewhat misleading.In its effectiveness. " Not at all, every little bit helps, why then are we making such a fuss about cutting down trees? | |||
"Oceans are the largest carbon sink on earth accounting for over 90% of all carbon stored.Massive compared to grassland.Tosay we need grassland as a carbon sink is somewhat misleading.In its effectiveness. Not at all, every little bit helps, why then are we making such a fuss about cutting down trees?" And i didn't say we needed grassland as a carbon sink, please read my posts more carefully. | |||
"We aren't meant to consume animals milk what so ever. Their milk is biologically designed to nurture their young just as ours is for our infants. This is true only for african/asian people. lactose tolerance is sometimes called "The white gene", because it is a white person thing. In white groups that mixed little, lactose tolerance is 100% 2-3 thousand years ago white people on the british isles were travelling around with milkable animals making butter/cheese. White people are 100% meant to drink milk, they evolved to do it. Why am I lactose intolerant then? You lack the enzyme that allows you to synthesise it. I know, the point I was making was in regard to the last line "white people are 100 per cent meant to drink milk, they evolved to do it" Genetic mutation can work the other way too. It is possible that because there is less pressure on our survival that such disadvantageous mutations are no longer removed from the gene pool. An example of this is the increase in the number of people who wear glasses. It's also possible that you have Afro-asian blood in your family. A friend of mine has Indonesian blood and she's lactose intolerant. Is that increase in those that wear glasses to do with technology ie screens etc.. I will get a DNA test though as my blood type is Rhesus B neg which would indicate no lineage to Africa or Asia as far as I'm aware? The increase in people wearing glasses has to do with the fact that such genetic defects are no longer being removed from the gene pool due to the invention of devices that correct such flaws, ie glasses. I am short sighted, there would have been a point in history where i wouldn't have seen the wolf coming thereby removing the flaw from the gene pool so it can't be passed on. I imagine in 50 or so year's time everyone will have a sight defect of some form or another simply because technology is able to compensate." Hmmm if that were so and it's genetic then Eskimos or Inuit people shouldn't need glasses as the older generations didn't need them yet the newer ones do, that doesn't seem genetic to me so I don't buy the purging argument. It seems more a case of the environment changing and our response to it, so more time indoors looking at screens etc can lead to poor eyesight more time outdoors with less exposure to screens then better eyesight... | |||
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"What really boils my piss in here is the way people go on about how vegans are this, vegans are that, they are extreme, tell you to do this that or the other. And yet it appears to be the many meat eaters that are so opinionated. And no, I’m not vegan or vegetarian just for the record. But there are many reasons a person may decide to become vegan, it’s not just a moral issue for some people, often more complex. And as for the the shite about diet and supplements, A plant based diet is a perfectly sustainable healthy lifestyle if it’s put together properly and not built on ready meals which a lot of people base their diet on these days. I don’t really care to get into an argument or any discussion, just having my rant. It is Thursday after all. Lex" So you have to plan the way you eat as a vegan and "do it right"? So there's a wrong way to do it? A way that will leave you malnourished eh? Well it's the same if you cook meats wrongly and eat the wrong meats. Vegans don't have a monopoly on health, it's all about planning your diet right. But you're far more likely to be unhealthy on a vegan diet if you're not eating a variety of foods and suppliments than if you were just eating certain red or white meats alone, this is a fact! Veganism is a very privileged way of life where all different types of food are available and even still vegans get extremely ill and malnourished and ends up being told that they HAVE to eat meat and then they get better. There's absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to refrain from meat for any reason. But we're quite sick and tired of extremists trying to shove it on the rest of us. I consider these people to be suffering from personality disorders and misanthropy. Respect to you for your choice! There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian or vegan if you choose that.. for YOURSELF! Don't choose it for me, and we're fine. | |||
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"I've yet to hear a decent argument against veganism to be honest. It could be true that extreme veganisms do things like this but that isn't exactly a counter argument to going vegan. Been vegan for a few years, even the taste argument doesn't hold up anymore. I don't talk about it much to be honest because often healthy debate doesn't happen, people make silly arguments for eating meat because deep down a lot of people know it's not okay. it's especially annoying how many people say they love animals but eat meat. If you wouldn't eat a dog why would you eat a pig? Your case is circular. You must first establish that it is morally wrong to eat meat before you can claim that we have a moral obligation not to eat meat or that eating meat for 'taste' only is wrong. Why is it wrong? I've yet to hear an argument for veganism that isn't filled with outright lies and switching between a moral argument against eating animals and the argument against industry practices. I would like to see a vegan argue the former without interchanging. Morally wrong reason I put forward to you Cows, pigs, goats, chickens and all the other animals consumed for meat each have intelligence of varying degrees, individual personalities and the ability to mourn. A pig with the intelligence of a 5 year old child. Which is more than dogs have. Mass farming of these animals in cramped inhumane spaces living in their own filth they become demoralised and depressed. We genetically modify them to be more productive for which they suffer for like cows with oversized udders maximising milk output constantly pregnant and having young removed. All animals in the food industry should be at least given the chance to grow and live as naturally and free as possible. They are giving their lives to go on your plate it's the least they deserve. I'm a believer these animals have souls, you can see that when you truly look into their eyes. Cows given freedom play just like children, they frolic and are joyful. Just like horses and look at the outrage when companies were using horse meat in their processed meats. Why is eating one any more acceptable than the other. Chickens have the ability to learn just as the other animals do. Their smaller brain makes them no lesser animal. My argument is this would you eat a primate? Whom of which has the same intelligence as a pig? Or does the thought that our similarities to them put you off? I'm not going to tell someone not to eat meat, do as you like just don't expect me to. Soon enough meat eaters will be surviving on a staple diet of insects given the lower carbon footprint, ability to mass produce and lower cost with higher protein ratio compared to currently farmed meat. Also I think if you want to eat meat you should have to go out select the animal you want slaughter it yourself and cut the flesh all by yourself. I guarantee most would rarely ever eat it. It comes conveniently in packaging all the nasty bits done ready for you to prep for cooking. You don't even think as to the life it's had before it went into the packaging. Out of sight out of mind. Il also add prehistoric humans rarely ate meat they were more gatherers than hunters living on plants so seeds, roots, fruits, various other vegetation and also insects. Animal bone piles of early man would have been humongous had they ate it regularly proving meat was rarely consumed. You've done exactly what I've been saying vegans do which is to conflate an argument against INDUSTRY PRACTICE'S with an argument against eating meat outright. Stop switching between the two! They are not interchangeable! When I say that eating meat is not wrong, you must prove that it is wrong even if the industry was treating animals the way we are suggesting they should. You have made a case for changing industry practices which I AGREE WITH! My concern is that you feel I should BECOME A VEGAN and I'm saying that that is not commensurate with your claim and argument. You haven't argued against eating meat outright, you've argued about industry practices which vegans do not have a monopoly over. Pardon my caps, it's not shouting, just for emphasis. I've not said anyone should become vegan what so ever People eat too much meat increasing cholesterol levels from the unhealthy saturated fats and unhealthy proteins the body can't metabolise properly. High meat diets have been proven to increase cancer There is no proof we need to eat meat at all. There are societies that never eat meat. They suffer no ill health from not eating it. I'm also vegetarian not vegan. Have been since I was 7 my choice I grew up in a household that ate meat 3 times a day. Difficult as a child living in a house where a parent refuses to cook meals saying they don't know how to cook "vegetarian crap" I learnt to cook from an early age I see eating animals is the same as eating infants and young children. They have the same intelligence levels, the same behaviours. But it's morally wrong in our society to be cannibalistic Decent argument until you proved you're deranged. Anybody making statements like that needs mental health reviewing. " I'm deranged for thinking animals are more than food? I'm deranged for thinking that animals show emotions I'm deranged for thinking animals deserve a better life before you eat them? I'm deranged knowing animals grieve and feel pain and suffering I'm deranged knowing most people couldn't slaughter the animal they want to eat because it will cry and fret afraid to die till it gives in knowing that it's fate is sealed. To watch their tears as they know it's over. I can't bring myself to eat meat because that's a life that wants to live. I'm deranged because I empathise with them. Il happily be deranged I'm not the one who thinks animals have no soul and that their only purpose is to feed us. That they don't show love and affection, that they don't crave friendships or bonds, that they don't enjoy being out in the world living as they should. Anyone who has ever owned a pet to say they aren't family that they don't show attachments that you can't see their developmental stages as they grow. Farmed animals are no different. I suggest trying people go to meet the meat. See what your eating then tell me you won't have at least some compassion for them after. Some respect for what you devour I could never slaughter them, I see them more than food. Living beings who have as much right to live as we do. I'd rather see them live a happy life before you eat them So yes I'm deranged anything else you wish to call me? | |||
"I've yet to hear a decent argument against veganism to be honest. It could be true that extreme veganisms do things like this but that isn't exactly a counter argument to going vegan. Been vegan for a few years, even the taste argument doesn't hold up anymore. I don't talk about it much to be honest because often healthy debate doesn't happen, people make silly arguments for eating meat because deep down a lot of people know it's not okay. it's especially annoying how many people say they love animals but eat meat. If you wouldn't eat a dog why would you eat a pig? Your case is circular. You must first establish that it is morally wrong to eat meat before you can claim that we have a moral obligation not to eat meat or that eating meat for 'taste' only is wrong. Why is it wrong? I've yet to hear an argument for veganism that isn't filled with outright lies and switching between a moral argument against eating animals and the argument against industry practices. I would like to see a vegan argue the former without interchanging. Morally wrong reason I put forward to you Cows, pigs, goats, chickens and all the other animals consumed for meat each have intelligence of varying degrees, individual personalities and the ability to mourn. A pig with the intelligence of a 5 year old child. Which is more than dogs have. Mass farming of these animals in cramped inhumane spaces living in their own filth they become demoralised and depressed. We genetically modify them to be more productive for which they suffer for like cows with oversized udders maximising milk output constantly pregnant and having young removed. All animals in the food industry should be at least given the chance to grow and live as naturally and free as possible. They are giving their lives to go on your plate it's the least they deserve. I'm a believer these animals have souls, you can see that when you truly look into their eyes. Cows given freedom play just like children, they frolic and are joyful. Just like horses and look at the outrage when companies were using horse meat in their processed meats. Why is eating one any more acceptable than the other. Chickens have the ability to learn just as the other animals do. Their smaller brain makes them no lesser animal. My argument is this would you eat a primate? Whom of which has the same intelligence as a pig? Or does the thought that our similarities to them put you off? I'm not going to tell someone not to eat meat, do as you like just don't expect me to. Soon enough meat eaters will be surviving on a staple diet of insects given the lower carbon footprint, ability to mass produce and lower cost with higher protein ratio compared to currently farmed meat. Also I think if you want to eat meat you should have to go out select the animal you want slaughter it yourself and cut the flesh all by yourself. I guarantee most would rarely ever eat it. It comes conveniently in packaging all the nasty bits done ready for you to prep for cooking. You don't even think as to the life it's had before it went into the packaging. Out of sight out of mind. Il also add prehistoric humans rarely ate meat they were more gatherers than hunters living on plants so seeds, roots, fruits, various other vegetation and also insects. Animal bone piles of early man would have been humongous had they ate it regularly proving meat was rarely consumed. You've done exactly what I've been saying vegans do which is to conflate an argument against INDUSTRY PRACTICE'S with an argument against eating meat outright. Stop switching between the two! They are not interchangeable! When I say that eating meat is not wrong, you must prove that it is wrong even if the industry was treating animals the way we are suggesting they should. You have made a case for changing industry practices which I AGREE WITH! My concern is that you feel I should BECOME A VEGAN and I'm saying that that is not commensurate with your claim and argument. You haven't argued against eating meat outright, you've argued about industry practices which vegans do not have a monopoly over. Pardon my caps, it's not shouting, just for emphasis. I've not said anyone should become vegan what so ever People eat too much meat increasing cholesterol levels from the unhealthy saturated fats and unhealthy proteins the body can't metabolise properly. High meat diets have been proven to increase cancer There is no proof we need to eat meat at all. There are societies that never eat meat. They suffer no ill health from not eating it. I'm also vegetarian not vegan. Have been since I was 7 my choice I grew up in a household that ate meat 3 times a day. Difficult as a child living in a house where a parent refuses to cook meals saying they don't know how to cook "vegetarian crap" I learnt to cook from an early age I see eating animals is the same as eating infants and young children. They have the same intelligence levels, the same behaviours. But it's morally wrong in our society to be cannibalistic Decent argument until you proved you're deranged. Anybody making statements like that needs mental health reviewing. I'm deranged for thinking animals are more than food? I'm deranged for thinking that animals show emotions I'm deranged for thinking animals deserve a better life before you eat them? I'm deranged knowing animals grieve and feel pain and suffering I'm deranged knowing most people couldn't slaughter the animal they want to eat because it will cry and fret afraid to die till it gives in knowing that it's fate is sealed. To watch their tears as they know it's over. I can't bring myself to eat meat because that's a life that wants to live. I'm deranged because I empathise with them. Il happily be deranged I'm not the one who thinks animals have no soul and that their only purpose is to feed us. That they don't show love and affection, that they don't crave friendships or bonds, that they don't enjoy being out in the world living as they should. Anyone who has ever owned a pet to say they aren't family that they don't show attachments that you can't see their developmental stages as they grow. Farmed animals are no different. I suggest trying people go to meet the meat. See what your eating then tell me you won't have at least some compassion for them after. Some respect for what you devour I could never slaughter them, I see them more than food. Living beings who have as much right to live as we do. I'd rather see them live a happy life before you eat them So yes I'm deranged anything else you wish to call me? " Brilliant post | |||
"I've yet to hear a decent argument against veganism to be honest. It could be true that extreme veganisms do things like this but that isn't exactly a counter argument to going vegan. Been vegan for a few years, even the taste argument doesn't hold up anymore. I don't talk about it much to be honest because often healthy debate doesn't happen, people make silly arguments for eating meat because deep down a lot of people know it's not okay. it's especially annoying how many people say they love animals but eat meat. If you wouldn't eat a dog why would you eat a pig? Your case is circular. You must first establish that it is morally wrong to eat meat before you can claim that we have a moral obligation not to eat meat or that eating meat for 'taste' only is wrong. Why is it wrong? I've yet to hear an argument for veganism that isn't filled with outright lies and switching between a moral argument against eating animals and the argument against industry practices. I would like to see a vegan argue the former without interchanging. Morally wrong reason I put forward to you Cows, pigs, goats, chickens and all the other animals consumed for meat each have intelligence of varying degrees, individual personalities and the ability to mourn. A pig with the intelligence of a 5 year old child. Which is more than dogs have. Mass farming of these animals in cramped inhumane spaces living in their own filth they become demoralised and depressed. We genetically modify them to be more productive for which they suffer for like cows with oversized udders maximising milk output constantly pregnant and having young removed. All animals in the food industry should be at least given the chance to grow and live as naturally and free as possible. They are giving their lives to go on your plate it's the least they deserve. I'm a believer these animals have souls, you can see that when you truly look into their eyes. Cows given freedom play just like children, they frolic and are joyful. Just like horses and look at the outrage when companies were using horse meat in their processed meats. Why is eating one any more acceptable than the other. Chickens have the ability to learn just as the other animals do. Their smaller brain makes them no lesser animal. My argument is this would you eat a primate? Whom of which has the same intelligence as a pig? Or does the thought that our similarities to them put you off? I'm not going to tell someone not to eat meat, do as you like just don't expect me to. Soon enough meat eaters will be surviving on a staple diet of insects given the lower carbon footprint, ability to mass produce and lower cost with higher protein ratio compared to currently farmed meat. Also I think if you want to eat meat you should have to go out select the animal you want slaughter it yourself and cut the flesh all by yourself. I guarantee most would rarely ever eat it. It comes conveniently in packaging all the nasty bits done ready for you to prep for cooking. You don't even think as to the life it's had before it went into the packaging. Out of sight out of mind. Il also add prehistoric humans rarely ate meat they were more gatherers than hunters living on plants so seeds, roots, fruits, various other vegetation and also insects. Animal bone piles of early man would have been humongous had they ate it regularly proving meat was rarely consumed. You've done exactly what I've been saying vegans do which is to conflate an argument against INDUSTRY PRACTICE'S with an argument against eating meat outright. Stop switching between the two! They are not interchangeable! When I say that eating meat is not wrong, you must prove that it is wrong even if the industry was treating animals the way we are suggesting they should. You have made a case for changing industry practices which I AGREE WITH! My concern is that you feel I should BECOME A VEGAN and I'm saying that that is not commensurate with your claim and argument. You haven't argued against eating meat outright, you've argued about industry practices which vegans do not have a monopoly over. Pardon my caps, it's not shouting, just for emphasis. I've not said anyone should become vegan what so ever People eat too much meat increasing cholesterol levels from the unhealthy saturated fats and unhealthy proteins the body can't metabolise properly. High meat diets have been proven to increase cancer There is no proof we need to eat meat at all. There are societies that never eat meat. They suffer no ill health from not eating it. I'm also vegetarian not vegan. Have been since I was 7 my choice I grew up in a household that ate meat 3 times a day. Difficult as a child living in a house where a parent refuses to cook meals saying they don't know how to cook "vegetarian crap" I learnt to cook from an early age I see eating animals is the same as eating infants and young children. They have the same intelligence levels, the same behaviours. But it's morally wrong in our society to be cannibalistic Decent argument until you proved you're deranged. Anybody making statements like that needs mental health reviewing. I'm deranged for thinking animals are more than food? I'm deranged for thinking that animals show emotions I'm deranged for thinking animals deserve a better life before you eat them? I'm deranged knowing animals grieve and feel pain and suffering I'm deranged knowing most people couldn't slaughter the animal they want to eat because it will cry and fret afraid to die till it gives in knowing that it's fate is sealed. To watch their tears as they know it's over. I can't bring myself to eat meat because that's a life that wants to live. I'm deranged because I empathise with them. Il happily be deranged I'm not the one who thinks animals have no soul and that their only purpose is to feed us. That they don't show love and affection, that they don't crave friendships or bonds, that they don't enjoy being out in the world living as they should. Anyone who has ever owned a pet to say they aren't family that they don't show attachments that you can't see their developmental stages as they grow. Farmed animals are no different. I suggest trying people go to meet the meat. See what your eating then tell me you won't have at least some compassion for them after. Some respect for what you devour I could never slaughter them, I see them more than food. Living beings who have as much right to live as we do. I'd rather see them live a happy life before you eat them So yes I'm deranged anything else you wish to call me? " No deranged pretty much covers it, just the bit about eating children, although like most lefties and veggies you tried to twist it to say I meant something quite different to what I clearly said. Way to live up to your own stereotype you people, really make me laugh, and not in a good way. | |||
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"I read something over the weekend which I didn't know. The poultry industry obviously breeds chickens for meat. Male chicks are no good for the meat trade as they don't grow fast enough. Therefore newly hatched male chicks are thrown live into grinding machines and processed into animal feed. They could gas them first, but they don't bother. Reading that genuinely shocked me.Call me naive , but I didn't know that happened. " That's not at all true, boilers (meat birds) of both sexes are grown. You are thinking of laying birds. Cockerels don't lay eggs, therefore they are culled at day old. | |||
"I've yet to hear a decent argument against veganism to be honest. It could be true that extreme veganisms do things like this but that isn't exactly a counter argument to going vegan. Been vegan for a few years, even the taste argument doesn't hold up anymore. I don't talk about it much to be honest because often healthy debate doesn't happen, people make silly arguments for eating meat because deep down a lot of people know it's not okay. it's especially annoying how many people say they love animals but eat meat. If you wouldn't eat a dog why would you eat a pig? Your case is circular. You must first establish that it is morally wrong to eat meat before you can claim that we have a moral obligation not to eat meat or that eating meat for 'taste' only is wrong. Why is it wrong? I've yet to hear an argument for veganism that isn't filled with outright lies and switching between a moral argument against eating animals and the argument against industry practices. I would like to see a vegan argue the former without interchanging. Morally wrong reason I put forward to you Cows, pigs, goats, chickens and all the other animals consumed for meat each have intelligence of varying degrees, individual personalities and the ability to mourn. A pig with the intelligence of a 5 year old child. Which is more than dogs have. Mass farming of these animals in cramped inhumane spaces living in their own filth they become demoralised and depressed. We genetically modify them to be more productive for which they suffer for like cows with oversized udders maximising milk output constantly pregnant and having young removed. All animals in the food industry should be at least given the chance to grow and live as naturally and free as possible. They are giving their lives to go on your plate it's the least they deserve. I'm a believer these animals have souls, you can see that when you truly look into their eyes. Cows given freedom play just like children, they frolic and are joyful. Just like horses and look at the outrage when companies were using horse meat in their processed meats. Why is eating one any more acceptable than the other. Chickens have the ability to learn just as the other animals do. Their smaller brain makes them no lesser animal. My argument is this would you eat a primate? Whom of which has the same intelligence as a pig? Or does the thought that our similarities to them put you off? I'm not going to tell someone not to eat meat, do as you like just don't expect me to. Soon enough meat eaters will be surviving on a staple diet of insects given the lower carbon footprint, ability to mass produce and lower cost with higher protein ratio compared to currently farmed meat. Also I think if you want to eat meat you should have to go out select the animal you want slaughter it yourself and cut the flesh all by yourself. I guarantee most would rarely ever eat it. It comes conveniently in packaging all the nasty bits done ready for you to prep for cooking. You don't even think as to the life it's had before it went into the packaging. Out of sight out of mind. Il also add prehistoric humans rarely ate meat they were more gatherers than hunters living on plants so seeds, roots, fruits, various other vegetation and also insects. Animal bone piles of early man would have been humongous had they ate it regularly proving meat was rarely consumed. You've done exactly what I've been saying vegans do which is to conflate an argument against INDUSTRY PRACTICE'S with an argument against eating meat outright. Stop switching between the two! They are not interchangeable! When I say that eating meat is not wrong, you must prove that it is wrong even if the industry was treating animals the way we are suggesting they should. You have made a case for changing industry practices which I AGREE WITH! My concern is that you feel I should BECOME A VEGAN and I'm saying that that is not commensurate with your claim and argument. You haven't argued against eating meat outright, you've argued about industry practices which vegans do not have a monopoly over. Pardon my caps, it's not shouting, just for emphasis. I've not said anyone should become vegan what so ever People eat too much meat increasing cholesterol levels from the unhealthy saturated fats and unhealthy proteins the body can't metabolise properly. High meat diets have been proven to increase cancer There is no proof we need to eat meat at all. There are societies that never eat meat. They suffer no ill health from not eating it. I'm also vegetarian not vegan. Have been since I was 7 my choice I grew up in a household that ate meat 3 times a day. Difficult as a child living in a house where a parent refuses to cook meals saying they don't know how to cook "vegetarian crap" I learnt to cook from an early age I see eating animals is the same as eating infants and young children. They have the same intelligence levels, the same behaviours. But it's morally wrong in our society to be cannibalistic Decent argument until you proved you're deranged. Anybody making statements like that needs mental health reviewing. I'm deranged for thinking animals are more than food? I'm deranged for thinking that animals show emotions I'm deranged for thinking animals deserve a better life before you eat them? I'm deranged knowing animals grieve and feel pain and suffering I'm deranged knowing most people couldn't slaughter the animal they want to eat because it will cry and fret afraid to die till it gives in knowing that it's fate is sealed. To watch their tears as they know it's over. I can't bring myself to eat meat because that's a life that wants to live. I'm deranged because I empathise with them. Il happily be deranged I'm not the one who thinks animals have no soul and that their only purpose is to feed us. That they don't show love and affection, that they don't crave friendships or bonds, that they don't enjoy being out in the world living as they should. Anyone who has ever owned a pet to say they aren't family that they don't show attachments that you can't see their developmental stages as they grow. Farmed animals are no different. I suggest trying people go to meet the meat. See what your eating then tell me you won't have at least some compassion for them after. Some respect for what you devour I could never slaughter them, I see them more than food. Living beings who have as much right to live as we do. I'd rather see them live a happy life before you eat them So yes I'm deranged anything else you wish to call me? No deranged pretty much covers it, just the bit about eating children, although like most lefties and veggies you tried to twist it to say I meant something quite different to what I clearly said. Way to live up to your own stereotype you people, really make me laugh, and not in a good way. "Calling me deranged because I see them like children as to why I can't eat them. That's my view as to why I can't eat them. I grew up surrounded by stud farms and cattle farms. If you can't see each has a personality and innocence like a child. I couldn't eat my children or anyone else's for that matter. And try telling pet owners that their animals arent their "kids" not their children. I've never known anyone who had the ability to empathise to eat their pets | |||
"I've yet to hear a decent argument against veganism to be honest. It could be true that extreme veganisms do things like this but that isn't exactly a counter argument to going vegan. Been vegan for a few years, even the taste argument doesn't hold up anymore. I don't talk about it much to be honest because often healthy debate doesn't happen, people make silly arguments for eating meat because deep down a lot of people know it's not okay. it's especially annoying how many people say they love animals but eat meat. If you wouldn't eat a dog why would you eat a pig? Your case is circular. You must first establish that it is morally wrong to eat meat before you can claim that we have a moral obligation not to eat meat or that eating meat for 'taste' only is wrong. Why is it wrong? I've yet to hear an argument for veganism that isn't filled with outright lies and switching between a moral argument against eating animals and the argument against industry practices. I would like to see a vegan argue the former without interchanging. Morally wrong reason I put forward to you Cows, pigs, goats, chickens and all the other animals consumed for meat each have intelligence of varying degrees, individual personalities and the ability to mourn. A pig with the intelligence of a 5 year old child. Which is more than dogs have. Mass farming of these animals in cramped inhumane spaces living in their own filth they become demoralised and depressed. We genetically modify them to be more productive for which they suffer for like cows with oversized udders maximising milk output constantly pregnant and having young removed. All animals in the food industry should be at least given the chance to grow and live as naturally and free as possible. They are giving their lives to go on your plate it's the least they deserve. I'm a believer these animals have souls, you can see that when you truly look into their eyes. Cows given freedom play just like children, they frolic and are joyful. Just like horses and look at the outrage when companies were using horse meat in their processed meats. Why is eating one any more acceptable than the other. Chickens have the ability to learn just as the other animals do. Their smaller brain makes them no lesser animal. My argument is this would you eat a primate? Whom of which has the same intelligence as a pig? Or does the thought that our similarities to them put you off? I'm not going to tell someone not to eat meat, do as you like just don't expect me to. Soon enough meat eaters will be surviving on a staple diet of insects given the lower carbon footprint, ability to mass produce and lower cost with higher protein ratio compared to currently farmed meat. Also I think if you want to eat meat you should have to go out select the animal you want slaughter it yourself and cut the flesh all by yourself. I guarantee most would rarely ever eat it. It comes conveniently in packaging all the nasty bits done ready for you to prep for cooking. You don't even think as to the life it's had before it went into the packaging. Out of sight out of mind. Il also add prehistoric humans rarely ate meat they were more gatherers than hunters living on plants so seeds, roots, fruits, various other vegetation and also insects. Animal bone piles of early man would have been humongous had they ate it regularly proving meat was rarely consumed. You've done exactly what I've been saying vegans do which is to conflate an argument against INDUSTRY PRACTICE'S with an argument against eating meat outright. Stop switching between the two! They are not interchangeable! When I say that eating meat is not wrong, you must prove that it is wrong even if the industry was treating animals the way we are suggesting they should. You have made a case for changing industry practices which I AGREE WITH! My concern is that you feel I should BECOME A VEGAN and I'm saying that that is not commensurate with your claim and argument. You haven't argued against eating meat outright, you've argued about industry practices which vegans do not have a monopoly over. Pardon my caps, it's not shouting, just for emphasis. I've not said anyone should become vegan what so ever People eat too much meat increasing cholesterol levels from the unhealthy saturated fats and unhealthy proteins the body can't metabolise properly. High meat diets have been proven to increase cancer There is no proof we need to eat meat at all. There are societies that never eat meat. They suffer no ill health from not eating it. I'm also vegetarian not vegan. Have been since I was 7 my choice I grew up in a household that ate meat 3 times a day. Difficult as a child living in a house where a parent refuses to cook meals saying they don't know how to cook "vegetarian crap" I learnt to cook from an early age I see eating animals is the same as eating infants and young children. They have the same intelligence levels, the same behaviours. But it's morally wrong in our society to be cannibalistic Decent argument until you proved you're deranged. Anybody making statements like that needs mental health reviewing. I'm deranged for thinking animals are more than food? I'm deranged for thinking that animals show emotions I'm deranged for thinking animals deserve a better life before you eat them? I'm deranged knowing animals grieve and feel pain and suffering I'm deranged knowing most people couldn't slaughter the animal they want to eat because it will cry and fret afraid to die till it gives in knowing that it's fate is sealed. To watch their tears as they know it's over. I can't bring myself to eat meat because that's a life that wants to live. I'm deranged because I empathise with them. Il happily be deranged I'm not the one who thinks animals have no soul and that their only purpose is to feed us. That they don't show love and affection, that they don't crave friendships or bonds, that they don't enjoy being out in the world living as they should. Anyone who has ever owned a pet to say they aren't family that they don't show attachments that you can't see their developmental stages as they grow. Farmed animals are no different. I suggest trying people go to meet the meat. See what your eating then tell me you won't have at least some compassion for them after. Some respect for what you devour I could never slaughter them, I see them more than food. Living beings who have as much right to live as we do. I'd rather see them live a happy life before you eat them So yes I'm deranged anything else you wish to call me? No deranged pretty much covers it, just the bit about eating children, although like most lefties and veggies you tried to twist it to say I meant something quite different to what I clearly said. Way to live up to your own stereotype you people, really make me laugh, and not in a good way.
Calling me deranged because I see them like children as to why I can't eat them. That's my view as to why I can't eat them. I grew up surrounded by stud farms and cattle farms. If you can't see each has a personality and innocence like a child. I couldn't eat my children or anyone else's for that matter.
And try telling pet owners that their animals arent their "kids" not their children. I've never known anyone who had the ability to empathise to eat their pets
"We eat our pets ... Ok they are to eat but the kids always gave them names and treated them more like pets  There is a huge difference between pets and kids and haven't met many people who would save their dog before their children | |||
"As we are effectively omnivores the one problem with a vegan diet is the lack of Vit B12 which only comes from animal sources and for me a lot of vegan items has to be imported so the environmental cost would be too high. " Vitamin B12 is available through fortified products such as plant based milks, soy, breakfast cereals etc. It is possible to have adequate daily to fulfil your needs, if you were interested to know. | |||
"I've yet to hear a decent argument against veganism to be honest. It could be true that extreme veganisms do things like this but that isn't exactly a counter argument to going vegan. Been vegan for a few years, even the taste argument doesn't hold up anymore. I don't talk about it much to be honest because often healthy debate doesn't happen, people make silly arguments for eating meat because deep down a lot of people know it's not okay. it's especially annoying how many people say they love animals but eat meat. If you wouldn't eat a dog why would you eat a pig? Your case is circular. You must first establish that it is morally wrong to eat meat before you can claim that we have a moral obligation not to eat meat or that eating meat for 'taste' only is wrong. Why is it wrong? I've yet to hear an argument for veganism that isn't filled with outright lies and switching between a moral argument against eating animals and the argument against industry practices. I would like to see a vegan argue the former without interchanging. Morally wrong reason I put forward to you Cows, pigs, goats, chickens and all the other animals consumed for meat each have intelligence of varying degrees, individual personalities and the ability to mourn. A pig with the intelligence of a 5 year old child. Which is more than dogs have. Mass farming of these animals in cramped inhumane spaces living in their own filth they become demoralised and depressed. We genetically modify them to be more productive for which they suffer for like cows with oversized udders maximising milk output constantly pregnant and having young removed. All animals in the food industry should be at least given the chance to grow and live as naturally and free as possible. They are giving their lives to go on your plate it's the least they deserve. I'm a believer these animals have souls, you can see that when you truly look into their eyes. Cows given freedom play just like children, they frolic and are joyful. Just like horses and look at the outrage when companies were using horse meat in their processed meats. Why is eating one any more acceptable than the other. Chickens have the ability to learn just as the other animals do. Their smaller brain makes them no lesser animal. My argument is this would you eat a primate? Whom of which has the same intelligence as a pig? Or does the thought that our similarities to them put you off? I'm not going to tell someone not to eat meat, do as you like just don't expect me to. Soon enough meat eaters will be surviving on a staple diet of insects given the lower carbon footprint, ability to mass produce and lower cost with higher protein ratio compared to currently farmed meat. Also I think if you want to eat meat you should have to go out select the animal you want slaughter it yourself and cut the flesh all by yourself. I guarantee most would rarely ever eat it. It comes conveniently in packaging all the nasty bits done ready for you to prep for cooking. You don't even think as to the life it's had before it went into the packaging. Out of sight out of mind. Il also add prehistoric humans rarely ate meat they were more gatherers than hunters living on plants so seeds, roots, fruits, various other vegetation and also insects. Animal bone piles of early man would have been humongous had they ate it regularly proving meat was rarely consumed. You've done exactly what I've been saying vegans do which is to conflate an argument against INDUSTRY PRACTICE'S with an argument against eating meat outright. Stop switching between the two! They are not interchangeable! When I say that eating meat is not wrong, you must prove that it is wrong even if the industry was treating animals the way we are suggesting they should. You have made a case for changing industry practices which I AGREE WITH! My concern is that you feel I should BECOME A VEGAN and I'm saying that that is not commensurate with your claim and argument. You haven't argued against eating meat outright, you've argued about industry practices which vegans do not have a monopoly over. Pardon my caps, it's not shouting, just for emphasis. I've not said anyone should become vegan what so ever People eat too much meat increasing cholesterol levels from the unhealthy saturated fats and unhealthy proteins the body can't metabolise properly. High meat diets have been proven to increase cancer There is no proof we need to eat meat at all. There are societies that never eat meat. They suffer no ill health from not eating it. I'm also vegetarian not vegan. Have been since I was 7 my choice I grew up in a household that ate meat 3 times a day. Difficult as a child living in a house where a parent refuses to cook meals saying they don't know how to cook "vegetarian crap" I learnt to cook from an early age I see eating animals is the same as eating infants and young children. They have the same intelligence levels, the same behaviours. But it's morally wrong in our society to be cannibalistic Decent argument until you proved you're deranged. Anybody making statements like that needs mental health reviewing. I'm deranged for thinking animals are more than food? I'm deranged for thinking that animals show emotions I'm deranged for thinking animals deserve a better life before you eat them? I'm deranged knowing animals grieve and feel pain and suffering I'm deranged knowing most people couldn't slaughter the animal they want to eat because it will cry and fret afraid to die till it gives in knowing that it's fate is sealed. To watch their tears as they know it's over. I can't bring myself to eat meat because that's a life that wants to live. I'm deranged because I empathise with them. Il happily be deranged I'm not the one who thinks animals have no soul and that their only purpose is to feed us. That they don't show love and affection, that they don't crave friendships or bonds, that they don't enjoy being out in the world living as they should. Anyone who has ever owned a pet to say they aren't family that they don't show attachments that you can't see their developmental stages as they grow. Farmed animals are no different. I suggest trying people go to meet the meat. See what your eating then tell me you won't have at least some compassion for them after. Some respect for what you devour I could never slaughter them, I see them more than food. Living beings who have as much right to live as we do. I'd rather see them live a happy life before you eat them So yes I'm deranged anything else you wish to call me? No deranged pretty much covers it, just the bit about eating children, although like most lefties and veggies you tried to twist it to say I meant something quite different to what I clearly said. Way to live up to your own stereotype you people, really make me laugh, and not in a good way.
Calling me deranged because I see them like children as to why I can't eat them. That's my view as to why I can't eat them. I grew up surrounded by stud farms and cattle farms. If you can't see each has a personality and innocence like a child. I couldn't eat my children or anyone else's for that matter.
And try telling pet owners that their animals arent their "kids" not their children. I've never known anyone who had the ability to empathise to eat their pets
We eat our pets ... Ok they are to eat but the kids always gave them names and treated them more like pets There is a huge difference between pets and kids and haven't met many people who would save their dog before their children "Do you respect and have compassion for the animals you raise and eat? Do you give them a good life? Do the kids know they are eating them and understand, respecting what goes on their plate? And you've met people who do put pets before kids. In terms of saving kids over pets. In a fire I'd be getting my kids out pets will instinctually know to flee danger. The kids come first and anyone else kids too. But I'd go back into a fire to rescue my pets if they hadn't got out. | |||
"As we are effectively omnivores the one problem with a vegan diet is the lack of Vit B12 which only comes from animal sources and for me a lot of vegan items has to be imported so the environmental cost would be too high. Vitamin B12 is available through fortified products such as plant based milks, soy, breakfast cereals etc. It is possible to have adequate daily to fulfil your needs, if you were interested to know." The mere fact that vegans have to take supplements and eat fortified food in order to avoid nutritional deficiencies proves how unnatural it is. | |||
"As we are effectively omnivores the one problem with a vegan diet is the lack of Vit B12 which only comes from animal sources and for me a lot of vegan items has to be imported so the environmental cost would be too high. Vitamin B12 is available through fortified products such as plant based milks, soy, breakfast cereals etc. It is possible to have adequate daily to fulfil your needs, if you were interested to know. The mere fact that vegans have to take supplements and eat fortified food in order to avoid nutritional deficiencies proves how unnatural it is." The point is they don’t have to take supplements and the rest of us eat fortified food such as cereals too. What is your problem? | |||
"As we are effectively omnivores the one problem with a vegan diet is the lack of Vit B12 which only comes from animal sources and for me a lot of vegan items has to be imported so the environmental cost would be too high. Vitamin B12 is available through fortified products such as plant based milks, soy, breakfast cereals etc. It is possible to have adequate daily to fulfil your needs, if you were interested to know." I know that but prefer a balance diet and no need for supplements myself ... if a diet has to be supplemented to be healthy then I feel it wouldn't be natural | |||
"As we are effectively omnivores the one problem with a vegan diet is the lack of Vit B12 which only comes from animal sources and for me a lot of vegan items has to be imported so the environmental cost would be too high. Vitamin B12 is available through fortified products such as plant based milks, soy, breakfast cereals etc. It is possible to have adequate daily to fulfil your needs, if you were interested to know. I know that but prefer a balance diet and no need for supplements myself ... if a diet has to be supplemented to be healthy then I feel it wouldn't be natural " What is it that people don’t understand? Skimmed milk, most eggs, whole grain cereals all come, on the whole fortified unless you search out unfortified products. | |||
My daughter could pluck a pigeon by the time she was 4 and my son would bring back rabbits and sort them by the time he was 8 ... all children should know where there food comes from. Both worked with the slaughterman when they felt they were old enough too. | |||
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"As we are effectively omnivores the one problem with a vegan diet is the lack of Vit B12 which only comes from animal sources and for me a lot of vegan items has to be imported so the environmental cost would be too high. Vitamin B12 is available through fortified products such as plant based milks, soy, breakfast cereals etc. It is possible to have adequate daily to fulfil your needs, if you were interested to know. The mere fact that vegans have to take supplements and eat fortified food in order to avoid nutritional deficiencies proves how unnatural it is. The point is they don’t have to take supplements and the rest of us eat fortified food such as cereals too. What is your problem?" Quoting the Vegan Society: "To get the full benefit of a vegan diet, vegans should do one of the following: Eat fortified food 2 to 3 times a day to get at least 3 micrograms of B12 a day; Or take one B12 supplement daily providing at least 10 micrograms; Or take a weekly B12 supplement providing at least 2000 micrograms." They also recommend supplementing calcium, iron, zinc, selenium, iodine and long chain omega 3. Or they could just eat a nice juicy steak. So my problem is this: without technology veganism would not be possible and yet it's always being touted as the most natural way of living, you may be able to go without supplements but the need to micromanage what you eat can, also, hardly be described as natural. As someone who eats a, for the most part, healthy balanced diet i don't need to take supplements, if i do eat fortified food it's only because it's becoming increasingly difficult to avoid. | |||
"I've yet to hear a decent argument against veganism to be honest. It could be true that extreme veganisms do things like this but that isn't exactly a counter argument to going vegan. Been vegan for a few years, even the taste argument doesn't hold up anymore. I don't talk about it much to be honest because often healthy debate doesn't happen, people make silly arguments for eating meat because deep down a lot of people know it's not okay. it's especially annoying how many people say they love animals but eat meat. If you wouldn't eat a dog why would you eat a pig? Your case is circular. You must first establish that it is morally wrong to eat meat before you can claim that we have a moral obligation not to eat meat or that eating meat for 'taste' only is wrong. Why is it wrong? I've yet to hear an argument for veganism that isn't filled with outright lies and switching between a moral argument against eating animals and the argument against industry practices. I would like to see a vegan argue the former without interchanging. Morally wrong reason I put forward to you Cows, pigs, goats, chickens and all the other animals consumed for meat each have intelligence of varying degrees, individual personalities and the ability to mourn. A pig with the intelligence of a 5 year old child. Which is more than dogs have. Mass farming of these animals in cramped inhumane spaces living in their own filth they become demoralised and depressed. We genetically modify them to be more productive for which they suffer for like cows with oversized udders maximising milk output constantly pregnant and having young removed. All animals in the food industry should be at least given the chance to grow and live as naturally and free as possible. They are giving their lives to go on your plate it's the least they deserve. I'm a believer these animals have souls, you can see that when you truly look into their eyes. Cows given freedom play just like children, they frolic and are joyful. Just like horses and look at the outrage when companies were using horse meat in their processed meats. Why is eating one any more acceptable than the other. Chickens have the ability to learn just as the other animals do. Their smaller brain makes them no lesser animal. My argument is this would you eat a primate? Whom of which has the same intelligence as a pig? Or does the thought that our similarities to them put you off? I'm not going to tell someone not to eat meat, do as you like just don't expect me to. Soon enough meat eaters will be surviving on a staple diet of insects given the lower carbon footprint, ability to mass produce and lower cost with higher protein ratio compared to currently farmed meat. Also I think if you want to eat meat you should have to go out select the animal you want slaughter it yourself and cut the flesh all by yourself. I guarantee most would rarely ever eat it. It comes conveniently in packaging all the nasty bits done ready for you to prep for cooking. You don't even think as to the life it's had before it went into the packaging. Out of sight out of mind. Il also add prehistoric humans rarely ate meat they were more gatherers than hunters living on plants so seeds, roots, fruits, various other vegetation and also insects. Animal bone piles of early man would have been humongous had they ate it regularly proving meat was rarely consumed. You've done exactly what I've been saying vegans do which is to conflate an argument against INDUSTRY PRACTICE'S with an argument against eating meat outright. Stop switching between the two! They are not interchangeable! When I say that eating meat is not wrong, you must prove that it is wrong even if the industry was treating animals the way we are suggesting they should. You have made a case for changing industry practices which I AGREE WITH! My concern is that you feel I should BECOME A VEGAN and I'm saying that that is not commensurate with your claim and argument. You haven't argued against eating meat outright, you've argued about industry practices which vegans do not have a monopoly over. Pardon my caps, it's not shouting, just for emphasis. I've not said anyone should become vegan what so ever People eat too much meat increasing cholesterol levels from the unhealthy saturated fats and unhealthy proteins the body can't metabolise properly. High meat diets have been proven to increase cancer There is no proof we need to eat meat at all. There are societies that never eat meat. They suffer no ill health from not eating it. I'm also vegetarian not vegan. Have been since I was 7 my choice I grew up in a household that ate meat 3 times a day. Difficult as a child living in a house where a parent refuses to cook meals saying they don't know how to cook "vegetarian crap" I learnt to cook from an early age I see eating animals is the same as eating infants and young children. They have the same intelligence levels, the same behaviours. But it's morally wrong in our society to be cannibalistic Decent argument until you proved you're deranged. Anybody making statements like that needs mental health reviewing. I'm deranged for thinking animals are more than food? I'm deranged for thinking that animals show emotions I'm deranged for thinking animals deserve a better life before you eat them? I'm deranged knowing animals grieve and feel pain and suffering I'm deranged knowing most people couldn't slaughter the animal they want to eat because it will cry and fret afraid to die till it gives in knowing that it's fate is sealed. To watch their tears as they know it's over. I can't bring myself to eat meat because that's a life that wants to live. I'm deranged because I empathise with them. Il happily be deranged I'm not the one who thinks animals have no soul and that their only purpose is to feed us. That they don't show love and affection, that they don't crave friendships or bonds, that they don't enjoy being out in the world living as they should. Anyone who has ever owned a pet to say they aren't family that they don't show attachments that you can't see their developmental stages as they grow. Farmed animals are no different. I suggest trying people go to meet the meat. See what your eating then tell me you won't have at least some compassion for them after. Some respect for what you devour I could never slaughter them, I see them more than food. Living beings who have as much right to live as we do. I'd rather see them live a happy life before you eat them So yes I'm deranged anything else you wish to call me? No deranged pretty much covers it, just the bit about eating children, although like most lefties and veggies you tried to twist it to say I meant something quite different to what I clearly said. Way to live up to your own stereotype you people, really make me laugh, and not in a good way.
Calling me deranged because I see them like children as to why I can't eat them. That's my view as to why I can't eat them. I grew up surrounded by stud farms and cattle farms. If you can't see each has a personality and innocence like a child. I couldn't eat my children or anyone else's for that matter.
And try telling pet owners that their animals arent their "kids" not their children. I've never known anyone who had the ability to empathise to eat their pets o please don't start about so called pet's are children shite now that does boil my piss
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"As we are effectively omnivores the one problem with a vegan diet is the lack of Vit B12 which only comes from animal sources and for me a lot of vegan items has to be imported so the environmental cost would be too high. Vitamin B12 is available through fortified products such as plant based milks, soy, breakfast cereals etc. It is possible to have adequate daily to fulfil your needs, if you were interested to know. The mere fact that vegans have to take supplements and eat fortified food in order to avoid nutritional deficiencies proves how unnatural it is. The point is they don’t have to take supplements and the rest of us eat fortified food such as cereals too. What is your problem? Quoting the Vegan Society: "To get the full benefit of a vegan diet, vegans should do one of the following: Eat fortified food 2 to 3 times a day to get at least 3 micrograms of B12 a day; Or take one B12 supplement daily providing at least 10 micrograms; Or take a weekly B12 supplement providing at least 2000 micrograms." They also recommend supplementing calcium, iron, zinc, selenium, iodine and long chain omega 3. Or they could just eat a nice juicy steak. So my problem is this: without technology veganism would not be possible and yet it's always being touted as the most natural way of living, you may be able to go without supplements but the need to micromanage what you eat can, also, hardly be described as natural. As someone who eats a, for the most part, healthy balanced diet i don't need to take supplements, if i do eat fortified food it's only because it's becoming increasingly difficult to avoid." My problem is - that’s your problem. So fuck! If someone else chooses to take that route for whatever reason they see fit, why are they getting such a shitting hard time about it. And if they choose to be lazy they can take supplements, but you know what, if they want, they can live their lifestyle, as naturally as possible without supplements. And if that means micromanaging their diet. It’s THEIR fucking diet. What is everyone’s problem. Out of all of the people on this thread who have stood up and said they are vegetarian or vegan, I never knew, coz a) they never told me before b) it was irrelevant to me and I didn’t need to know I only know now because of this thread but it doesn’t change my opinion of them, unlike a few other people. Lex | |||
"Vegans i shit em "A big arsehole. I always knew that  | |||
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"Nobody answered the salt issue " Salt is for seasoning what ever the food | |||
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"Vegans i shit em
A big arsehole. I always knew that "u have no idea | |||
"I personally dont give a flying fuck if you are a meat eater a vegan a vegetarian a fruitarian a piscatarian or any of the other weird and fucking wonderful arians people call themselves...we all have free will and free choice and are supposed to live in a world where we are allowed to do so. Unfortunately it seems that nowadays that free will and free choice only applies if we agree with the choices other people have made. Can we all please just shut the fuck up about other peoples choices and allow all of us the right of self determination of what we choose to do and how we choose to live!!!" This | |||
"I read something over the weekend which I didn't know. The poultry industry obviously breeds chickens for meat. Male chicks are no good for the meat trade as they don't grow fast enough. Therefore newly hatched male chicks are thrown live into grinding machines and processed into animal feed. They could gas them first, but they don't bother. Reading that genuinely shocked me.Call me naive , but I didn't know that happened. " I had a work mate who tried that job, it nearly broke him. He's strong, a bit overweight, good at getting on with people but just didn't have the stomach/callous nature to stay there. I've done butchery in my 20's and I'm not sure that i can do that job. What male wants to destroy other males like that? Not us, that's for sure. | |||
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"I personally dont give a flying fuck if you are a meat eater a vegan a vegetarian a fruitarian a piscatarian or any of the other weird and fucking wonderful arians people call themselves...we all have free will and free choice and are supposed to live in a world where we are allowed to do so. Unfortunately it seems that nowadays that free will and free choice only applies if we agree with the choices other people have made. Can we all please just shut the fuck up about other peoples choices and allow all of us the right of self determination of what we choose to do and how we choose to live!!!" Right on ! I choose to eat people. My choice. My right. Don't you judge me ! | |||
"I don't have a problem with vegans, as others have said as long as they don't ram it down your throat. Everyone is entitled to live how they want. You can show me as many videos you like of animals being slaughtered etc. It won't change my eating habits. I like meat and always will. I have had 2 run ins with vegans in restaurants though. At a works do, we were ordering food and a lady asked for the vegan options. I ordered the steak, when she found out she asked if I could move to another seat and not sit next to her. I told her politely to poke off. Another time, a whole family of bloody vegans we were on the table next to me and my lads in a restaurant, very close together tables. We all had steak and they asked the waitress to move us as we were eating meat. Bloody nutters some of them are. " There was one monumental vegan thread on here years ago. A lady proceeded to verbally beat down all meat eaters and proclaim her moral superiority. Until someone point out that one of her photos of her posing on a leather bed was the vegan equivalent of that dentist bloke posing on top of Cecil the Lion after he shot the poor thing. Much lols were had that day. | |||
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" Right on ! I choose to eat people. My choice. My right. Don't you judge me ! " If the people you eat are consenting then I am sure you are all happy... | |||
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