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Pro choice vs. Pro Life
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I've heard an interesting ProLife argument the other day and was wondering what other people think of it.
Just to be clear I'm not aligning myself with either side.
The argument was a scenario,
Your dad has been in a car crash accident and was admitted to the hospital, he is in a comma but the Doctors let you know he will regain consciousness after a period of 9 months. However he will lose all of his memories with no chance of ever gaining them back. As a result the doctors are allowing you to make the choice and pulling the plug so to speak (euthanasia). What do you do? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"So he’ll be totally ok apart from the memory?"
Yes, but then again you must keep in mind, he will lose all of his memory, he won't know who he is either, no self identity. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When you talk of pro life... Are you on about anti abortionists? It is hard to tell from that scenario, I think, as it doesn't really correlate at all  "
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"I've heard an interesting ProLife argument the other day and was wondering what other people think of it.
Just to be clear I'm not aligning myself with either side.
The argument was a scenario,
Your dad has been in a car crash accident and was admitted to the hospital, he is in a comma but the Doctors let you know he will regain consciousness after a period of 9 months. However he will lose all of his memories with no chance of ever gaining them back. As a result the doctors are allowing you to make the choice and pulling the plug so to speak (euthanasia). What do you do?"
Sorry. I don't understand the comparison.
Maybe I'm being thick?
A |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've heard an interesting ProLife argument the other day and was wondering what other people think of it.
Just to be clear I'm not aligning myself with either side.
The argument was a scenario,
Your dad has been in a car crash accident and was admitted to the hospital, he is in a comma but the Doctors let you know he will regain consciousness after a period of 9 months. However he will lose all of his memories with no chance of ever gaining them back. As a result the doctors are allowing you to make the choice and pulling the plug so to speak (euthanasia). What do you do?"
As someone who has experienced something very very similar and continues to live through it nearly 3 years on I'd pull the plug |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So he’ll be totally ok apart from the memory?
Yes, but then again you must keep in mind, he will lose all of his memory, he won't know who he is either, no self identity."
No. I wouldn’t pull the plug then. Definitely not.
If he was left with no dignity and life then yes I would if I had the choice because I know that’s his worst fear. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"When you talk of pro life... Are you on about anti abortionists? It is hard to tell from that scenario, I think, as it doesn't really correlate at all "
Pro Life vs. Pro choice does relate to abortions if that's what you're asking.
Whether the scenario doesn't correlate it could be argued, but that's not the point of the thread as it would lead into an endless argument over every minor detail. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Your dad would be able to continue living as normal after waking up, he would just have to relearn everything and make new memories of course, basically start a new life in other words. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If you had no memory you wouldn't know where your house was when you had been out or how to make a cup of tea etc"
That is correct.
(Side Note)
Also please leave the discussion in the thread, no need for PM's. |
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If he loses his memories, can he make new ones? If so the answer is don’t pull the plug, relive his life and the best part is you can help him not make the mistakes he’s regretted in the past. Sounds like a chance at a second life. |
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"If you had no memory you wouldn't know where your house was when you had been out or how to make a cup of tea etc
That is correct.
(Side Note)
Also please leave the discussion in the thread, no need for PM's."
I have never sent you a PM |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I wouldn't like to say, unless you've been in that situation who knows. Theres no wrong or right, just what works in the best interests of the person affected. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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With my last partner I had a living will arrangement.
In any case should I be in such a position where I am in a vegetative state with slim chance of recovery and any recovery in which I am severely impaired be it memories or physical function ie quadriplegic that no efforts are to be made to sustain my life.
I do not wish to lose my identity or quality of life or to impose myself on others quality of life in order for them to care for me. Whether they wish to or not. I do not want to be a burden to anyone.
I suggest a living will to anyone make sure what you want is done with control of someone you trust to carry out your wishes. Be it in this scenario to end the life or to continue it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If you had no memory you wouldn't know where your house was when you had been out or how to make a cup of tea etc
That is correct.
(Side Note)
Also please leave the discussion in the thread, no need for PM's.
I have never sent you a PM"
It was a side note, not addressed at you, apologies for the confusion  |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"When you talk of pro life... Are you on about anti abortionists? It is hard to tell from that scenario, I think, as it doesn't really correlate at all
Pro Life vs. Pro choice does relate to abortions if that's what you're asking.
Whether the scenario doesn't correlate it could be argued, but that's not the point of the thread as it would lead into an endless argument over every minor detail."
Taking any comparison with abortion out of the equation (because I see no similarity) then I'd not pull the plug.
Memories are important, yes, but it's perfectly possible to lead a fulfilling life and relearn things - it happens to both stroke victims and those living with dementia.
If there was no chance of any quality of life and dignity then I'd pull the plug - as I hope somebody will be able to for me in the future should the need arise.
A |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"When you talk of pro life... Are you on about anti abortionists? It is hard to tell from that scenario, I think, as it doesn't really correlate at all
Pro Life vs. Pro choice does relate to abortions if that's what you're asking.
Whether the scenario doesn't correlate it could be argued, but that's not the point of the thread as it would lead into an endless argument over every minor detail.
Taking any comparison with abortion out of the equation (because I see no similarity) then I'd not pull the plug.
Memories are important, yes, but it's perfectly possible to lead a fulfilling life and relearn things - it happens to both stroke victims and those living with dementia.
If there was no chance of any quality of life and dignity then I'd pull the plug - as I hope somebody will be able to for me in the future should the need arise.
A"
If you don't see the similarity between abortion and this scenario, you are really trying to not to see it or don't want to. |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"When you talk of pro life... Are you on about anti abortionists? It is hard to tell from that scenario, I think, as it doesn't really correlate at all
Pro Life vs. Pro choice does relate to abortions if that's what you're asking.
Whether the scenario doesn't correlate it could be argued, but that's not the point of the thread as it would lead into an endless argument over every minor detail.
Taking any comparison with abortion out of the equation (because I see no similarity) then I'd not pull the plug.
Memories are important, yes, but it's perfectly possible to lead a fulfilling life and relearn things - it happens to both stroke victims and those living with dementia.
If there was no chance of any quality of life and dignity then I'd pull the plug - as I hope somebody will be able to for me in the future should the need arise.
A
If you don't see the similarity between abortion and this scenario, you are really trying to not to see it or don't want to."
Sorry. I disagree.
One is a bunch of cells that has yet to develop cognitive function and mental capacity. The same as many that do not go on to survive a full term pregnancy.
The other is a person that has lived, breathed, formed relationships (in this case been a parent), functioned as an individual, been capable of rational thought and cognitive functioning and who has through an accident temporarily lost the capacity to do all of those things but for a defined period of time, after which they will return to the previous state minus prior memories.
Vastly different.
A |
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"When you talk of pro life... Are you on about anti abortionists? It is hard to tell from that scenario, I think, as it doesn't really correlate at all
Pro Life vs. Pro choice does relate to abortions if that's what you're asking.
Whether the scenario doesn't correlate it could be argued, but that's not the point of the thread as it would lead into an endless argument over every minor detail.
Taking any comparison with abortion out of the equation (because I see no similarity) then I'd not pull the plug.
Memories are important, yes, but it's perfectly possible to lead a fulfilling life and relearn things - it happens to both stroke victims and those living with dementia.
If there was no chance of any quality of life and dignity then I'd pull the plug - as I hope somebody will be able to for me in the future should the need arise.
A
If you don't see the similarity between abortion and this scenario, you are really trying to not to see it or don't want to.
Sorry. I disagree.
One is a bunch of cells that has yet to develop cognitive function and mental capacity. The same as many that do not go on to survive a full term pregnancy.
The other is a person that has lived, breathed, formed relationships (in this case been a parent), functioned as an individual, been capable of rational thought and cognitive functioning and who has through an accident temporarily lost the capacity to do all of those things but for a defined period of time, after which they will return to the previous state minus prior memories.
Vastly different.
A"
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If you don't see the similarity between abortion and this scenario, you are really trying to not to see it or don't want to."
There is no similarity. An abortion is of a foetus which has never been outside a woman's stomach. This man has a history and is known and loved by people who have memories of him. |
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That scenario is not at all a useful way to look at abortion. As others have said, a foetus is not the same as an adult.
Additionally, agreeing to keep someone on life support is not the same as being pregnant.
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"If pregnancy can continue without forcing the woman to continue it, it might be a vaguely valid comparison. This analogy erases the pregnant woman, her health, and her choice from the equation. "
A |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When you talk of pro life... Are you on about anti abortionists? It is hard to tell from that scenario, I think, as it doesn't really correlate at all
Pro Life vs. Pro choice does relate to abortions if that's what you're asking.
Whether the scenario doesn't correlate it could be argued, but that's not the point of the thread as it would lead into an endless argument over every minor detail."
I know pro life is meant to be about abortion, but if the scenario doesn't correlate then how is it a good example of the pro life argument?! Am I missimg something?! Apart from the point of the thread? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
If you don't see the similarity between abortion and this scenario, you are really trying to not to see it or don't want to.
There is no similarity. An abortion is of a foetus which has never been outside a woman's stomach. This man has a history and is known and loved by people who have memories of him. "
So it would be perfectly acceptable to pull the plug on an anti social orphan? |
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"When you talk of pro life... Are you on about anti abortionists? It is hard to tell from that scenario, I think, as it doesn't really correlate at all
Pro Life vs. Pro choice does relate to abortions if that's what you're asking.
Whether the scenario doesn't correlate it could be argued, but that's not the point of the thread as it would lead into an endless argument over every minor detail.
Taking any comparison with abortion out of the equation (because I see no similarity) then I'd not pull the plug.
Memories are important, yes, but it's perfectly possible to lead a fulfilling life and relearn things - it happens to both stroke victims and those living with dementia.
If there was no chance of any quality of life and dignity then I'd pull the plug - as I hope somebody will be able to for me in the future should the need arise.
A
If you don't see the similarity between abortion and this scenario, you are really trying to not to see it or don't want to.
Sorry. I disagree.
One is a bunch of cells that has yet to develop cognitive function and mental capacity. The same as many that do not go on to survive a full term pregnancy.
The other is a person that has lived, breathed, formed relationships (in this case been a parent), functioned as an individual, been capable of rational thought and cognitive functioning and who has through an accident temporarily lost the capacity to do all of those things but for a defined period of time, after which they will return to the previous state minus prior memories.
Vastly different.
A"
Agree totally
Mrs |
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Pulling the plug would involve a host of questions. What resources are being used up? Is it in the interest of the health service (or person paying) to keep that up? What is the labour involved, the risk? For what gain? Once the process is over, what's the prognosis and what cost will be involved in making this person independent again? Is it in everyone's best interests, including the patient?
And then the choice of the person if they made one while competent. Or their next of kin. Or anyone who might have to suffer through any medical procedure or problem related to his coma. |
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Going to try this one again without adding the personal details.
The scenario you speak of is absolutely nothing like the pro-choice/pro-life debate. A child does not ask to be born.
In this scenario I'd pull the plug. The person coming out of the coma in nine months isn't my father anymore. He also wouldn't want to be dependent on anyone while he "relearns" everything. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Going to try this one again without adding the personal details.
The scenario you speak of is absolutely nothing like the pro-choice/pro-life debate. A child does not ask to be born.
In this scenario I'd pull the plug. The person coming out of the coma in nine months isn't my father anymore. He also wouldn't want to be dependent on anyone while he "relearns" everything."
So they person isn't your father anymore yet you made the conscious decision to end his life and assumed he wouldn't want to live it? Interesting. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I think a lot of people are hesitant in trying to answer the question and want to distance the scenario from abortion as much as possible.
To me this just shows how similar the example is and how hard it is to simply answer the question.
To answer some of the financial related questions, the father if not accepted by the family would be put in a care home until he becomes independent again, be it 1 year or 18 years.
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"I think a lot of people are hesitant in trying to answer the question and want to distance the scenario from abortion as much as possible.
To me this just shows how similar the example is and how hard it is to simply answer the question.
To answer some of the financial related questions, the father if not accepted by the family would be put in a care home until he becomes independent again, be it 1 year or 18 years.
"
I would pull the plug. My decision is based on my knowledge of my father and conversations we have had. In the absence of a living will, I would make a beat interest decision for him.
Mrs |
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"I think a lot of people are hesitant in trying to answer the question and want to distance the scenario from abortion as much as possible.
To me this just shows how similar the example is and how hard it is to simply answer the question.
To answer some of the financial related questions, the father if not accepted by the family would be put in a care home until he becomes independent again, be it 1 year or 18 years.
I would pull the plug. My decision is based on my knowledge of my father and conversations we have had. In the absence of a living will, I would make a beat interest decision for him.
Mrs"
*best |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If pregnancy can continue without forcing the woman to continue it, it might be a vaguely valid comparison. This analogy erases the pregnant woman, her health, and her choice from the equation. "
Pro life argument supports the case of abortion in case of danger to the mothers life. |
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"Going to try this one again without adding the personal details.
The scenario you speak of is absolutely nothing like the pro-choice/pro-life debate. A child does not ask to be born.
In this scenario I'd pull the plug. The person coming out of the coma in nine months isn't my father anymore. He also wouldn't want to be dependent on anyone while he "relearns" everything.
So they person isn't your father anymore yet you made the conscious decision to end his life and assumed he wouldn't want to live it? Interesting."
Personal situation which goes too close to home.
Don't you dare judge me. |
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"I think a lot of people are hesitant in trying to answer the question and want to distance the scenario from abortion as much as possible.
To me this just shows how similar the example is and how hard it is to simply answer the question.
To answer some of the financial related questions, the father if not accepted by the family would be put in a care home until he becomes independent again, be it 1 year or 18 years.
"
Analogies are generally faulty. This one is crackers and no where similar to pro life/choice argument. Who originally made this analogy? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Going to try this one again without adding the personal details.
The scenario you speak of is absolutely nothing like the pro-choice/pro-life debate. A child does not ask to be born.
In this scenario I'd pull the plug. The person coming out of the coma in nine months isn't my father anymore. He also wouldn't want to be dependent on anyone while he "relearns" everything.
So they person isn't your father anymore yet you made the conscious decision to end his life and assumed he wouldn't want to live it? Interesting.
Personal situation which goes too close to home.
Don't you dare judge me."
I'm not judging you, I find your statement interesting. If this scenario is too personal, the my apologies but it's not my fault and you can't blame me for making my arguments. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No matter what side of it you come from, the original situation is a specious argument.
"If pregnancy can continue without forcing the woman to continue it, it might be a vaguely valid comparison. This analogy erases the pregnant woman, her health, and her choice from the equation.
Pro life argument supports the case of abortion in case of danger to the mothers life."
Not always. |
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"Going to try this one again without adding the personal details.
The scenario you speak of is absolutely nothing like the pro-choice/pro-life debate. A child does not ask to be born.
In this scenario I'd pull the plug. The person coming out of the coma in nine months isn't my father anymore. He also wouldn't want to be dependent on anyone while he "relearns" everything.
So they person isn't your father anymore yet you made the conscious decision to end his life and assumed he wouldn't want to live it? Interesting.
Personal situation which goes too close to home.
Don't you dare judge me.
I'm not judging you, I find your statement interesting. If this scenario is too personal, the my apologies but it's not my fault and you can't blame me for making my arguments."
You were judging me and it is your fault.
Delete the thread. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Would I pull the plug on my father? No. Would I have an abortion if the circumstances made it necessary? Yes.
Do I see any correlation between the two? None at all.
Agreed.
"
Here are the similarities;
Both cases are about decision to end/not end a persons life.
Both cases relate to 9 month waiting period.
Both cases include a person with no previous memories.
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"If pregnancy can continue without forcing the woman to continue it, it might be a vaguely valid comparison. This analogy erases the pregnant woman, her health, and her choice from the equation.
Pro life argument supports the case of abortion in case of danger to the mothers life."
Some are, but not in the usual risks that come in many pregnancies. Just risk of death. Why should I be shackled to a person I don't know who's leeching my body's resources for at least nine months, with health complications resulting from that in many cases? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Going to try this one again without adding the personal details.
The scenario you speak of is absolutely nothing like the pro-choice/pro-life debate. A child does not ask to be born.
In this scenario I'd pull the plug. The person coming out of the coma in nine months isn't my father anymore. He also wouldn't want to be dependent on anyone while he "relearns" everything.
So they person isn't your father anymore yet you made the conscious decision to end his life and assumed he wouldn't want to live it? Interesting.
Personal situation which goes too close to home.
Don't you dare judge me.
I'm not judging you, I find your statement interesting. If this scenario is too personal, the my apologies but it's not my fault and you can't blame me for making my arguments.
You were judging me and it is your fault.
Delete the thread."
I have absolutely zero attachment to you as a person and have zero interest in judging you or your decisions.
Just because you chose to attach personal feelings to my thread doesn't make me or the thread a culprit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Would I pull the plug on my father? No. Would I have an abortion if the circumstances made it necessary? Yes.
Do I see any correlation between the two? None at all.
Agreed.
Here are the similarities;
Both cases are about decision to end/not end a persons life.
Both cases relate to 9 month waiting period.
Both cases include a person with no previous memories.
"
A foetus is not a person
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"Would I pull the plug on my father? No. Would I have an abortion if the circumstances made it necessary? Yes.
Do I see any correlation between the two? None at all.
Agreed.
Here are the similarities;
Both cases are about decision to end/not end a persons life.
Both cases relate to 9 month waiting period.
Both cases include a person with no previous memories.
"
A foetus cannot make advance decisions which relate to their medical care. You can't compare the 2.
Mrs |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Would I pull the plug on my father? No. Would I have an abortion if the circumstances made it necessary? Yes.
Do I see any correlation between the two? None at all.
Agreed.
Here are the similarities;
Both cases are about decision to end/not end a persons life.
Both cases relate to 9 month waiting period.
Both cases include a person with no previous memories.
A foetus cannot make advance decisions which relate to their medical care. You can't compare the 2.
Mrs"
Neither can person in a comma. |
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"Going to try this one again without adding the personal details.
The scenario you speak of is absolutely nothing like the pro-choice/pro-life debate. A child does not ask to be born.
In this scenario I'd pull the plug. The person coming out of the coma in nine months isn't my father anymore. He also wouldn't want to be dependent on anyone while he "relearns" everything.
So they person isn't your father anymore yet you made the conscious decision to end his life and assumed he wouldn't want to live it? Interesting.
Personal situation which goes too close to home.
Don't you dare judge me.
I'm not judging you, I find your statement interesting. If this scenario is too personal, the my apologies but it's not my fault and you can't blame me for making my arguments.
You were judging me and it is your fault.
Delete the thread.
I have absolutely zero attachment to you as a person and have zero interest in judging you or your decisions.
Just because you chose to attach personal feelings to my thread doesn't make me or the thread a culprit."
You judged me as a person as soon as you commented on my reply. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'd keep him ticking and convince him that he'd been a cross-dressing ballet dancer all his life and watch with great amusement as he tries to re-learn his former profession. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Dad has been dead for 30 years, but if it was me, I would want my kids or wife to pull the plug.
Way to old to start learning to eat with a knife and fork. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Going to try this one again without adding the personal details.
The scenario you speak of is absolutely nothing like the pro-choice/pro-life debate. A child does not ask to be born.
In this scenario I'd pull the plug. The person coming out of the coma in nine months isn't my father anymore. He also wouldn't want to be dependent on anyone while he "relearns" everything.
So they person isn't your father anymore yet you made the conscious decision to end his life and assumed he wouldn't want to live it? Interesting.
Personal situation which goes too close to home.
Don't you dare judge me.
I'm not judging you, I find your statement interesting. If this scenario is too personal, the my apologies but it's not my fault and you can't blame me for making my arguments.
You were judging me and it is your fault.
Delete the thread.
I have absolutely zero attachment to you as a person and have zero interest in judging you or your decisions.
Just because you chose to attach personal feelings to my thread doesn't make me or the thread a culprit.
You judged me as a person as soon as you commented on my reply."
I made an observation, I don't care about you as a person or how you chose to live your life. Do you feel better now?
Just FYI, EVERYONE judges EVERYONE at all times. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Would I pull the plug on my father? No. Would I have an abortion if the circumstances made it necessary? Yes.
Do I see any correlation between the two? None at all.
Agreed.
Here are the similarities;
Both cases are about decision to end/not end a persons life.
Both cases relate to 9 month waiting period.
Both cases include a person with no previous memories.
"
And yet the list of differences will far outweigh that list of similarities |
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My relatives have made it clear how they wish to be treated if an accident meant they'd never emerge the same person.
I'd respect their wishes and pull the plug.
As for a foetus, all children should be wanted, and there are too many unwanted children already. A woman's choice must be sacrosanct. |
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"Would I pull the plug on my father? No. Would I have an abortion if the circumstances made it necessary? Yes.
Do I see any correlation between the two? None at all.
Agreed.
Here are the similarities;
Both cases are about decision to end/not end a persons life.
Both cases relate to 9 month waiting period.
Both cases include a person with no previous memories.
A foetus cannot make advance decisions which relate to their medical care. You can't compare the 2.
Mrs
Neither can person in a comma."
It's an advance decision. It's made before anything happens to you.
Even if it's not done formally in writing, most of us have had conversations with our family relating to what we would like to happen if something bad was to happen to us. I know for a fact that my father would want me to pull the plug because we have discussed it. Hence advance decision
Mrs |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Why is pro life the opposite of pro choice?
I am pro life and pro choice. Pro life of the pregnant person and pro choice for that person to choose what healthcare they want for their body.
Pro life is the nice term for anti abortionist, anti pregnant person to make their own healthcare choices. |
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"Here are the similarities;
Both cases are about decision to end/not end a persons life. "
A person I know and love versus a person I have never met, and have no emotional attachment to.
"Both cases relate to 9 month waiting period."
A 9 month period where my Father will be well cared for in a hospital, as opposed to a nine month period that will wreck havoc on my body and possibly kill me.
"Both cases include a person with no previous memories."
A person that will be rehabilitated by professionals with little to no cost of mine, as opposed to a baby that will be financially dependent on me for at least 18 years. |
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"Would I pull the plug on my father? No. Would I have an abortion if the circumstances made it necessary? Yes.
Do I see any correlation between the two? None at all.
Agreed.
Here are the similarities;
Both cases are about decision to end/not end a persons life.
Both cases relate to 9 month waiting period.
Both cases include a person with no previous memories.
"
Ending a life in one case depends on when "life" begins.
As above re 9 months.
There is no proof that an unborn baby in which recognised life has begun has no memory.
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Would I pull the plug on my father? No. Would I have an abortion if the circumstances made it necessary? Yes.
Do I see any correlation between the two? None at all.
Agreed.
Here are the similarities;
Both cases are about decision to end/not end a persons life.
Both cases relate to 9 month waiting period.
Both cases include a person with no previous memories.
A foetus cannot make advance decisions which relate to their medical care. You can't compare the 2.
Mrs
Neither can person in a comma.
It's an advance decision. It's made before anything happens to you.
Even if it's not done formally in writing, most of us have had conversations with our family relating to what we would like to happen if something bad was to happen to us. I know for a fact that my father would want me to pull the plug because we have discussed it. Hence advance decision
Mrs"
Yes but you're adding another variable to the scenario, the father in the scenario has not had this or similar discussion beforehand. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Why is pro life the opposite of pro choice?
I am pro life and pro choice. Pro life of the pregnant person and pro choice for that person to choose what healthcare they want for their body.
Pro life is the nice term for anti abortionist, anti pregnant person to make their own healthcare choices."
The problem is they don't care for the life after it has been born. They are pro (forced) birth....after that they couldn't give a fuck what happens. I just don't understand why such people feel they should have some kind of say over what other women do with the contents of their uterus'. Baffles me completely....weirdos |
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"
Here are the similarities;
Both cases are about decision to end/not end a persons life.
Both cases relate to 9 month waiting period.
Both cases include a person with no previous memories
And yet the list of differences will far outweigh that list of similarities "
Too many other facets ignored which are bound to be the case in individual scenarios. When you simply it this much for either case you can logically make your case strong whether it be for or against.
I’m out. |
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"Why is pro life the opposite of pro choice?
I am pro life and pro choice. Pro life of the pregnant person and pro choice for that person to choose what healthcare they want for their body.
Pro life is the nice term for anti abortionist, anti pregnant person to make their own healthcare choices.
The problem is they don't care for the life after it has been born. They are pro (forced) birth....after that they couldn't give a fuck what happens. I just don't understand why such people feel they should have some kind of say over what other women do with the contents of their uterus'. Baffles me completely....weirdos"
Yes, it's a short sighted and deeply hypocritical position to hold, fundamentally. All or almost all children must be born, but we'll do nothing to make their lives worth living. |
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By *affy72Woman
over a year ago
Herefordshire |
"Would I pull the plug on my father? No. Would I have an abortion if the circumstances made it necessary? Yes.
Do I see any correlation between the two? None at all.
Agreed.
-----------------
Here are the similarities;
Both cases are about decision to end/not end a persons life.
Both cases relate to 9 month waiting period.
Both cases include a person with no previous memories.
"
-----------
Nine months? A foetus wouldn't be aborted at nine months though. Your timescale needs to be shorter surely? |
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"Going to try this one again without adding the personal details.
The scenario you speak of is absolutely nothing like the pro-choice/pro-life debate. A child does not ask to be born.
In this scenario I'd pull the plug. The person coming out of the coma in nine months isn't my father anymore. He also wouldn't want to be dependent on anyone while he "relearns" everything.
So they person isn't your father anymore yet you made the conscious decision to end his life and assumed he wouldn't want to live it? Interesting.
Personal situation which goes too close to home.
Don't you dare judge me.
I'm not judging you, I find your statement interesting. If this scenario is too personal, the my apologies but it's not my fault and you can't blame me for making my arguments.
You were judging me and it is your fault.
Delete the thread.
I have absolutely zero attachment to you as a person and have zero interest in judging you or your decisions.
Just because you chose to attach personal feelings to my thread doesn't make me or the thread a culprit.
You judged me as a person as soon as you commented on my reply.
I made an observation, I don't care about you as a person or how you chose to live your life. Do you feel better now?
Just FYI, EVERYONE judges EVERYONE at all times. "
No. It's a personal attack against anyone who doesn't share your views.
I notice you didn't share any "observations" with the poster above who agreed that all life is sacred. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Here are the similarities;
Both cases are about decision to end/not end a persons life.
A person I know and love versus a person I have never met, and have no emotional attachment to.
So a stranger with a lack of social life holds less value than a person who has a family, correct?
Both cases relate to 9 month waiting period.
A 9 month period where my Father will be well cared for in a hospital, as opposed to a nine month period that will wreck havoc on my body and possibly kill me.
If the pregnancy was to cause a threat to the health or life of the pregnant mother abortion is allowed.
Both cases include a person with no previous memories.
A person that will be rehabilitated by professionals with little to no cost of mine, as opposed to a baby that will be financially dependent on me for at least 18 years.
The baby can be put into adoption services with no cost to you and 100% anonymity"
|
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"Would I pull the plug on my father? No. Would I have an abortion if the circumstances made it necessary? Yes.
Do I see any correlation between the two? None at all.
Agreed.
Here are the similarities;
Both cases are about decision to end/not end a persons life.
Both cases relate to 9 month waiting period.
Both cases include a person with no previous memories.
A foetus cannot make advance decisions which relate to their medical care. You can't compare the 2.
Mrs
Neither can person in a comma.
It's an advance decision. It's made before anything happens to you.
Even if it's not done formally in writing, most of us have had conversations with our family relating to what we would like to happen if something bad was to happen to us. I know for a fact that my father would want me to pull the plug because we have discussed it. Hence advance decision
Mrs
Yes but you're adding another variable to the scenario, the father in the scenario has not had this or similar discussion beforehand."
Your question was what would we do in that situation right? Well it would be my father in the coma so I can only answer the question in relation to me and my father.
Mrs |
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"Here are the similarities;
Both cases are about decision to end/not end a persons life.
A person I know and love versus a person I have never met, and have no emotional attachment to.
So a stranger with a lack of social life holds less value than a person who has a family, correct?
Both cases relate to 9 month waiting period.
A 9 month period where my Father will be well cared for in a hospital, as opposed to a nine month period that will wreck havoc on my body and possibly kill me.
If the pregnancy was to cause a threat to the health or life of the pregnant mother abortion is allowed.
Both cases include a person with no previous memories.
A person that will be rehabilitated by professionals with little to no cost of mine, as opposed to a baby that will be financially dependent on me for at least 18 years.
The baby can be put into adoption services with no cost to you and 100% anonymity"
Thus violating the child's legally established right to know their parents. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Here are the similarities;
Both cases are about decision to end/not end a persons life.
A person I know and love versus a person I have never met, and have no emotional attachment to.
So a stranger with a lack of social life holds less value than a person who has a family, correct?
Both cases relate to 9 month waiting period.
A 9 month period where my Father will be well cared for in a hospital, as opposed to a nine month period that will wreck havoc on my body and possibly kill me.
If the pregnancy was to cause a threat to the health or life of the pregnant mother abortion is allowed.
Both cases include a person with no previous memories.
A person that will be rehabilitated by professionals with little to no cost of mine, as opposed to a baby that will be financially dependent on me for at least 18 years.
The baby can be put into adoption services with no cost to you and 100% anonymity"
And that demonstrates a stark lack of understanding of the psychological effects of being a looked after child and of giving a child up for adoption |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Thing is OP what is life? There are thousands of live sperm killed every time they don't meet a compatible egg, do they have a right to life?
Even after an egg is fertilised it has a long way to go to be considered a life.
In the example you have given would you as a man want to have your nappies changed while you rolled around the floor helpless for 6 months to a year, spend 4 or 5 years learning how to use the toilet dress eat talk etc? I wouldn't choose that. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Going to try this one again without adding the personal details.
The scenario you speak of is absolutely nothing like the pro-choice/pro-life debate. A child does not ask to be born.
In this scenario I'd pull the plug. The person coming out of the coma in nine months isn't my father anymore. He also wouldn't want to be dependent on anyone while he "relearns" everything.
So they person isn't your father anymore yet you made the conscious decision to end his life and assumed he wouldn't want to live it? Interesting.
Personal situation which goes too close to home.
Don't you dare judge me.
I'm not judging you, I find your statement interesting. If this scenario is too personal, the my apologies but it's not my fault and you can't blame me for making my arguments.
You were judging me and it is your fault.
Delete the thread.
I have absolutely zero attachment to you as a person and have zero interest in judging you or your decisions.
Just because you chose to attach personal feelings to my thread doesn't make me or the thread a culprit.
You judged me as a person as soon as you commented on my reply.
I made an observation, I don't care about you as a person or how you chose to live your life. Do you feel better now?
Just FYI, EVERYONE judges EVERYONE at all times.
No. It's a personal attack against anyone who doesn't share your views.
I notice you didn't share any "observations" with the poster above who agreed that all life is sacred."
If you can't distance your personal feelings from the argument that's not my fault.
They're not my views, I am quoting a scenario.
How can I argue a point that supports the argument?
Just to be clear once again this isn't my scenario. |
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By *itty9899Man
over a year ago
Craggy Island |
"I've heard an interesting ProLife argument the other day and was wondering what other people think of it.
Just to be clear I'm not aligning myself with either side.
The argument was a scenario,
Your dad has been in a car crash accident and was admitted to the hospital, he is in a comma but the Doctors let you know he will regain consciousness after a period of 9 months. However he will lose all of his memories with no chance of ever gaining them back. As a result the doctors are allowing you to make the choice and pulling the plug so to speak (euthanasia). What do you do?"
with the advent of mobile phone, social media, new memories can be taught it would be no worse then someone with Alzheimer's.
euthanasia should be available option for people who wish to seek a end to their own suffering and be of sound mind and body before making that decision |
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"Going to try this one again without adding the personal details.
The scenario you speak of is absolutely nothing like the pro-choice/pro-life debate. A child does not ask to be born.
In this scenario I'd pull the plug. The person coming out of the coma in nine months isn't my father anymore. He also wouldn't want to be dependent on anyone while he "relearns" everything.
So they person isn't your father anymore yet you made the conscious decision to end his life and assumed he wouldn't want to live it? Interesting.
Personal situation which goes too close to home.
Don't you dare judge me.
I'm not judging you, I find your statement interesting. If this scenario is too personal, the my apologies but it's not my fault and you can't blame me for making my arguments.
You were judging me and it is your fault.
Delete the thread.
I have absolutely zero attachment to you as a person and have zero interest in judging you or your decisions.
Just because you chose to attach personal feelings to my thread doesn't make me or the thread a culprit.
You judged me as a person as soon as you commented on my reply.
I made an observation, I don't care about you as a person or how you chose to live your life. Do you feel better now?
Just FYI, EVERYONE judges EVERYONE at all times.
No. It's a personal attack against anyone who doesn't share your views.
I notice you didn't share any "observations" with the poster above who agreed that all life is sacred.
If you can't distance your personal feelings from the argument that's not my fault.
They're not my views, I am quoting a scenario.
How can I argue a point that supports the argument?
Just to be clear once again this isn't my scenario."
A bit of empathy would go a long way in this situation.
Mrs |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Why is pro life the opposite of pro choice?
I am pro life and pro choice. Pro life of the pregnant person and pro choice for that person to choose what healthcare they want for their body.
Pro life is the nice term for anti abortionist, anti pregnant person to make their own healthcare choices.
The problem is they don't care for the life after it has been born. They are pro (forced) birth....after that they couldn't give a fuck what happens. I just don't understand why such people feel they should have some kind of say over what other women do with the contents of their uterus'. Baffles me completely....weirdos"
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Going to try this one again without adding the personal details.
The scenario you speak of is absolutely nothing like the pro-choice/pro-life debate. A child does not ask to be born.
In this scenario I'd pull the plug. The person coming out of the coma in nine months isn't my father anymore. He also wouldn't want to be dependent on anyone while he "relearns" everything.
So they person isn't your father anymore yet you made the conscious decision to end his life and assumed he wouldn't want to live it? Interesting.
Personal situation which goes too close to home.
Don't you dare judge me.
I'm not judging you, I find your statement interesting. If this scenario is too personal, the my apologies but it's not my fault and you can't blame me for making my arguments.
You were judging me and it is your fault.
Delete the thread.
I have absolutely zero attachment to you as a person and have zero interest in judging you or your decisions.
Just because you chose to attach personal feelings to my thread doesn't make me or the thread a culprit.
You judged me as a person as soon as you commented on my reply.
I made an observation, I don't care about you as a person or how you chose to live your life. Do you feel better now?
Just FYI, EVERYONE judges EVERYONE at all times.
No. It's a personal attack against anyone who doesn't share your views.
I notice you didn't share any "observations" with the poster above who agreed that all life is sacred.
If you can't distance your personal feelings from the argument that's not my fault.
They're not my views, I am quoting a scenario.
How can I argue a point that supports the argument?
Just to be clear once again this isn't my scenario.
A bit of empathy would go a long way in this situation.
Mrs"
I already apologized, I don't understand her own personal situation and I'm not related to her therefore I no interest in judging her. I just made an observation and said "interesting", I didn't insult her or her opinion, so I wish mine would also be respected. |
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"Going to try this one again without adding the personal details.
The scenario you speak of is absolutely nothing like the pro-choice/pro-life debate. A child does not ask to be born.
In this scenario I'd pull the plug. The person coming out of the coma in nine months isn't my father anymore. He also wouldn't want to be dependent on anyone while he "relearns" everything.
So they person isn't your father anymore yet you made the conscious decision to end his life and assumed he wouldn't want to live it? Interesting.
Personal situation which goes too close to home.
Don't you dare judge me.
I'm not judging you, I find your statement interesting. If this scenario is too personal, the my apologies but it's not my fault and you can't blame me for making my arguments.
You were judging me and it is your fault.
Delete the thread.
I have absolutely zero attachment to you as a person and have zero interest in judging you or your decisions.
Just because you chose to attach personal feelings to my thread doesn't make me or the thread a culprit.
You judged me as a person as soon as you commented on my reply.
I made an observation, I don't care about you as a person or how you chose to live your life. Do you feel better now?
Just FYI, EVERYONE judges EVERYONE at all times.
No. It's a personal attack against anyone who doesn't share your views.
I notice you didn't share any "observations" with the poster above who agreed that all life is sacred.
If you can't distance your personal feelings from the argument that's not my fault.
They're not my views, I am quoting a scenario.
How can I argue a point that supports the argument?
Just to be clear once again this isn't my scenario."
You are the one that put the "discussion" up. That means if you are being impartial you argue against both sides, even if you disagree with it. Otherwise it's a personal attack against anyone who disagrees with you.
And you have not apologized to me once. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Going to try this one again without adding the personal details.
The scenario you speak of is absolutely nothing like the pro-choice/pro-life debate. A child does not ask to be born.
In this scenario I'd pull the plug. The person coming out of the coma in nine months isn't my father anymore. He also wouldn't want to be dependent on anyone while he "relearns" everything.
So they person isn't your father anymore yet you made the conscious decision to end his life and assumed he wouldn't want to live it? Interesting.
Personal situation which goes too close to home.
Don't you dare judge me.
I'm not judging you, I find your statement interesting. If this scenario is too personal, the my apologies but it's not my fault and you can't blame me for making my arguments.
You were judging me and it is your fault.
Delete the thread.
I have absolutely zero attachment to you as a person and have zero interest in judging you or your decisions.
Just because you chose to attach personal feelings to my thread doesn't make me or the thread a culprit.
You judged me as a person as soon as you commented on my reply.
I made an observation, I don't care about you as a person or how you chose to live your life. Do you feel better now?
Just FYI, EVERYONE judges EVERYONE at all times.
No. It's a personal attack against anyone who doesn't share your views.
I notice you didn't share any "observations" with the poster above who agreed that all life is sacred.
If you can't distance your personal feelings from the argument that's not my fault.
They're not my views, I am quoting a scenario.
How can I argue a point that supports the argument?
Just to be clear once again this isn't my scenario.
You are the one that put the "discussion" up. That means if you are being impartial you argue against both sides, even if you disagree with it. Otherwise it's a personal attack against anyone who disagrees with you.
And you have not apologized to me once."
Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
To make my stances clear, I have too divided opinion on this matter and therefore I would not want to make the decisions for the pregnant mother. (Her choice)
I have apologized to you and you can even see that in this conversation string.
"I'm not judging you, I find your statement interesting. If this scenario is too personal, the my apologies but it's not my fault and you can't blame me for making my arguments." |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
"
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that... |
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"Going to try this one again without adding the personal details.
The scenario you speak of is absolutely nothing like the pro-choice/pro-life debate. A child does not ask to be born.
In this scenario I'd pull the plug. The person coming out of the coma in nine months isn't my father anymore. He also wouldn't want to be dependent on anyone while he "relearns" everything.
So they person isn't your father anymore yet you made the conscious decision to end his life and assumed he wouldn't want to live it? Interesting.
Personal situation which goes too close to home.
Don't you dare judge me.
I'm not judging you, I find your statement interesting. If this scenario is too personal, the my apologies but it's not my fault and you can't blame me for making my arguments.
You were judging me and it is your fault.
Delete the thread.
I have absolutely zero attachment to you as a person and have zero interest in judging you or your decisions.
Just because you chose to attach personal feelings to my thread doesn't make me or the thread a culprit.
You judged me as a person as soon as you commented on my reply.
I made an observation, I don't care about you as a person or how you chose to live your life. Do you feel better now?
Just FYI, EVERYONE judges EVERYONE at all times.
No. It's a personal attack against anyone who doesn't share your views.
I notice you didn't share any "observations" with the poster above who agreed that all life is sacred.
If you can't distance your personal feelings from the argument that's not my fault.
They're not my views, I am quoting a scenario.
How can I argue a point that supports the argument?
Just to be clear once again this isn't my scenario.
You are the one that put the "discussion" up. That means if you are being impartial you argue against both sides, even if you disagree with it. Otherwise it's a personal attack against anyone who disagrees with you.
And you have not apologized to me once.
Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
To make my stances clear, I have too divided opinion on this matter and therefore I would not want to make the decisions for the pregnant mother. (Her choice)
I have apologized to you and you can even see that in this conversation string.
"I'm not judging you, I find your statement interesting. If this scenario is too personal, the my apologies but it's not my fault and you can't blame me for making my arguments.""
That is not an apology. It was you justifying your extremely hurtful remarks. |
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"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that... "
It's easier to bully the woman (therefore the "caring" person) than a man. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that...
It's easier to bully the woman (therefore the "caring" person) than a man."
Of course, silly me  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that... "
I agree that a few people have indeed answered the question, some said yes some said no. You are correct.
How is the comparison silly? In what way, saying something is silly is not a valid argument, I hope we can both agree on that. It's dismissive rather than proactive.
When is life considered a life? In my opinion when the process of pregnancy has started. But that's just my opinion. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that...
It's easier to bully the woman (therefore the "caring" person) than a man."
You're not a victim in this scenario or the thread for that matter? How am I bullying you when I literally said I carry zero attachment to you as a person and don't care how you choose to live your life.
If anyone could be considered a bully here, it's you, trying to demonize me for my opinion or my thread  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that...
I agree that a few people have indeed answered the question, some said yes some said no. You are correct.
How is the comparison silly? In what way, saying something is silly is not a valid argument, I hope we can both agree on that. It's dismissive rather than proactive.
When is life considered a life? In my opinion when the process of pregnancy has started. But that's just my opinion."
It is silly because no adult in right mind would want to go through infancy and childhood a second time. And no right thinking medical person would inflict that on them.
SO on the subject of when a life is alive, you think at the moment the sperm and egg meet? there are a massive number of fertalised eggs that don't so much as divide into 2 cells let alone an infant human, would you accept that is not a life?
|
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"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that...
It's easier to bully the woman (therefore the "caring" person) than a man.
You're not a victim in this scenario or the thread for that matter? How am I bullying you when I literally said I carry zero attachment to you as a person and don't care how you choose to live your life.
If anyone could be considered a bully here, it's you, trying to demonize me for my opinion or my thread "
You have demonized everyone who disagrees with your opinion (even though you said in your OP that you weren't going to state yours because it is a "discussion").
You have gone for me worse than anyone on this thread.
I have never disagreed with your view, just told you not to judge me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that...
I agree that a few people have indeed answered the question, some said yes some said no. You are correct.
How is the comparison silly? In what way, saying something is silly is not a valid argument, I hope we can both agree on that. It's dismissive rather than proactive.
When is life considered a life? In my opinion when the process of pregnancy has started. But that's just my opinion."
Fortunately OP, your opinion has no bearing on anything and you (probably, I assume, as you identify as a man) will never experience pregnancy so as far as opinions go....yours is pretty irrelevant |
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"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that...
I agree that a few people have indeed answered the question, some said yes some said no. You are correct.
How is the comparison silly? In what way, saying something is silly is not a valid argument, I hope we can both agree on that. It's dismissive rather than proactive.
When is life considered a life? In my opinion when the process of pregnancy has started. But that's just my opinion.
Fortunately OP, your opinion has no bearing on anything and you (probably, I assume, as you identify as a man) will never experience pregnancy so as far as opinions go....yours is pretty irrelevant "
Quite. Your womb, your business. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that...
I agree that a few people have indeed answered the question, some said yes some said no. You are correct.
How is the comparison silly? In what way, saying something is silly is not a valid argument, I hope we can both agree on that. It's dismissive rather than proactive.
When is life considered a life? In my opinion when the process of pregnancy has started. But that's just my opinion.
It is silly because no adult in right mind would want to go through infancy and childhood a second time. And no right thinking medical person would inflict that on them.
SO on the subject of when a life is alive, you think at the moment the sperm and egg meet? there are a massive number of fertalised eggs that don't so much as divide into 2 cells let alone an infant human, would you accept that is not a life?
"
No adult in the right mind? I must be considered as a deranged person then and locked up in a psychiatric ward.
If I was 18 and lost all my memories and had to relearn everything again, I would chose to do that without a second thought.
In my opinion life is too short and valuable to dismiss it as easily as you do.
To make it clear, I think a life is a life when the pregnancy is started and results in a birth of a child that would develop a clear conscious. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Fortunately OP, your opinion has no bearing on anything and you (probably, I assume, as you identify as a man) will never experience pregnancy so as far as opinions go....yours is pretty irrelevant "
Exactly this |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that...
I agree that a few people have indeed answered the question, some said yes some said no. You are correct.
How is the comparison silly? In what way, saying something is silly is not a valid argument, I hope we can both agree on that. It's dismissive rather than proactive.
When is life considered a life? In my opinion when the process of pregnancy has started. But that's just my opinion.
Fortunately OP, your opinion has no bearing on anything and you (probably, I assume, as you identify as a man) will never experience pregnancy so as far as opinions go....yours is pretty irrelevant "
You do realize that I believe a woman should have a choice of what to do with the pregnancy right?
My opinion holds as much value as anyone else by the way, it's an opinion, it's not law, it's not a command, and it's not a fact. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that...
I agree that a few people have indeed answered the question, some said yes some said no. You are correct.
How is the comparison silly? In what way, saying something is silly is not a valid argument, I hope we can both agree on that. It's dismissive rather than proactive.
When is life considered a life? In my opinion when the process of pregnancy has started. But that's just my opinion.
Fortunately OP, your opinion has no bearing on anything and you (probably, I assume, as you identify as a man) will never experience pregnancy so as far as opinions go....yours is pretty irrelevant
You do realize that I believe a woman should have a choice of what to do with the pregnancy right?
My opinion holds as much value as anyone else by the way, it's an opinion, it's not law, it's not a command, and it's not a fact."
I don't really care what you believe tbh nor when you think life begins
None of it matters what you think
This is one of the oddest threads I have seen in a while and whatever point it is you feel you are trying to make, it's beyond me |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that...
It's easier to bully the woman (therefore the "caring" person) than a man.
You're not a victim in this scenario or the thread for that matter? How am I bullying you when I literally said I carry zero attachment to you as a person and don't care how you choose to live your life.
If anyone could be considered a bully here, it's you, trying to demonize me for my opinion or my thread
You have demonized everyone who disagrees with your opinion (even though you said in your OP that you weren't going to state yours because it is a "discussion").
You have gone for me worse than anyone on this thread.
I have never disagreed with your view, just told you not to judge me."
I'm going to end the conversation with you here because I have no interest in being demonized and judged by you any further and your ignorance to acknowledge anything I say.
Have a nice day. |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that...
I agree that a few people have indeed answered the question, some said yes some said no. You are correct.
How is the comparison silly? In what way, saying something is silly is not a valid argument, I hope we can both agree on that. It's dismissive rather than proactive.
When is life considered a life? In my opinion when the process of pregnancy has started. But that's just my opinion.
Fortunately OP, your opinion has no bearing on anything and you (probably, I assume, as you identify as a man) will never experience pregnancy so as far as opinions go....yours is pretty irrelevant
You do realize that I believe a woman should have a choice of what to do with the pregnancy right?
My opinion holds as much value as anyone else by the way, it's an opinion, it's not law, it's not a command, and it's not a fact.
I don't really care what you believe tbh nor when you think life begins
None of it matters what you think
This is one of the oddest threads I have seen in a while and whatever point it is you feel you are trying to make, it's beyond me"
If you don't care about what I think or say or anything related to me, then I'm baffled why would you address me in the first place.
Thankfully your opinion on my opinion is as irrelevant and hold no value.
If you have no interest in the thread or you think that it beyond you, why comment? |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that...
I agree that a few people have indeed answered the question, some said yes some said no. You are correct.
How is the comparison silly? In what way, saying something is silly is not a valid argument, I hope we can both agree on that. It's dismissive rather than proactive.
When is life considered a life? In my opinion when the process of pregnancy has started. But that's just my opinion.
Fortunately OP, your opinion has no bearing on anything and you (probably, I assume, as you identify as a man) will never experience pregnancy so as far as opinions go....yours is pretty irrelevant
You do realize that I believe a woman should have a choice of what to do with the pregnancy right?
My opinion holds as much value as anyone else by the way, it's an opinion, it's not law, it's not a command, and it's not a fact.
I don't really care what you believe tbh nor when you think life begins
None of it matters what you think
This is one of the oddest threads I have seen in a while and whatever point it is you feel you are trying to make, it's beyond me
If you don't care about what I think or say or anything related to me, then I'm baffled why would you address me in the first place.
Thankfully your opinion on my opinion is as irrelevant and hold no value.
If you have no interest in the thread or you think that it beyond you, why comment?"
Because I can 
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that...
I agree that a few people have indeed answered the question, some said yes some said no. You are correct.
How is the comparison silly? In what way, saying something is silly is not a valid argument, I hope we can both agree on that. It's dismissive rather than proactive.
When is life considered a life? In my opinion when the process of pregnancy has started. But that's just my opinion.
Fortunately OP, your opinion has no bearing on anything and you (probably, I assume, as you identify as a man) will never experience pregnancy so as far as opinions go....yours is pretty irrelevant
You do realize that I believe a woman should have a choice of what to do with the pregnancy right?
My opinion holds as much value as anyone else by the way, it's an opinion, it's not law, it's not a command, and it's not a fact.
I don't really care what you believe tbh nor when you think life begins
None of it matters what you think
This is one of the oddest threads I have seen in a while and whatever point it is you feel you are trying to make, it's beyond me
If you don't care about what I think or say or anything related to me, then I'm baffled why would you address me in the first place.
Thankfully your opinion on my opinion is as irrelevant and hold no value.
If you have no interest in the thread or you think that it beyond you, why comment?
Because I can
"
Just like I can have my opinion, thank you and good chat |
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"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that...
It's easier to bully the woman (therefore the "caring" person) than a man.
You're not a victim in this scenario or the thread for that matter? How am I bullying you when I literally said I carry zero attachment to you as a person and don't care how you choose to live your life.
If anyone could be considered a bully here, it's you, trying to demonize me for my opinion or my thread
You have demonized everyone who disagrees with your opinion (even though you said in your OP that you weren't going to state yours because it is a "discussion").
You have gone for me worse than anyone on this thread.
I have never disagreed with your view, just told you not to judge me.
I'm going to end the conversation with you here because I have no interest in being demonized and judged by you any further and your ignorance to acknowledge anything I say.
Have a nice day."
My advice to you is to not demonize others on your thread when they have differing opinions to you.
Also to understand when you've gone too far and learn how to apologise properly.
And you might want to learn how to conduct an impartial discussion - or state what your actual preferences in the OP.
No one here has demonized you. You just demonized anyone who disagrees with the view that we had no idea you held. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've heard an interesting ProLife argument the other day and was wondering what other people think of it.
Just to be clear I'm not aligning myself with either side.
The argument was a scenario,
Your dad has been in a car crash accident and was admitted to the hospital, he is in a comma but the Doctors let you know he will regain consciousness after a period of 9 months. However he will lose all of his memories with no chance of ever gaining them back. As a result the doctors are allowing you to make the choice and pulling the plug so to speak (euthanasia). What do you do?"
That's less a pro-life argument and basically a ridiculous load of bollocks. Their hypothetical scenario could not and would not ever happen so is nonsense |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I've heard an interesting ProLife argument the other day and was wondering what other people think of it.
Just to be clear I'm not aligning myself with either side.
The argument was a scenario,
Your dad has been in a car crash accident and was admitted to the hospital, he is in a comma but the Doctors let you know he will regain consciousness after a period of 9 months. However he will lose all of his memories with no chance of ever gaining them back. As a result the doctors are allowing you to make the choice and pulling the plug so to speak (euthanasia). What do you do?
That's less a pro-life argument and basically a ridiculous load of bollocks. Their hypothetical scenario could not and would not ever happen so is nonsense "
It's a comparison made in a pro life and pro choice argument. Using the word "bollocks" and "nonsense" is hardly a valid counter argument, others have already made a much sounder counter arguments.
One of them being danger to woman health. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Just stared scrolling up, I take it the "I'm not aligning myself with either side" stance didn't last?
Telling women what to do with their bodies isn't pro-life. If you are truly pro-life, bone a doctor, become a nurse, gt yourself overseas doing aid work or do some of the many other things in life that mean getting put there and actually saving lives that are there to be saved |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've heard an interesting ProLife argument the other day and was wondering what other people think of it.
Just to be clear I'm not aligning myself with either side.
The argument was a scenario,
Your dad has been in a car crash accident and was admitted to the hospital, he is in a comma but the Doctors let you know he will regain consciousness after a period of 9 months. However he will lose all of his memories with no chance of ever gaining them back. As a result the doctors are allowing you to make the choice and pulling the plug so to speak (euthanasia). What do you do?
That's less a pro-life argument and basically a ridiculous load of bollocks. Their hypothetical scenario could not and would not ever happen so is nonsense
It's a comparison made in a pro life and pro choice argument. Using the word "bollocks" and "nonsense" is hardly a valid counter argument, others have already made a much sounder counter arguments.
One of them being danger to woman health."
Bit your scenario is complete nonsense. Can you tell me of one case ever where a family have been presented with the scenario you posted? It's a clinical and medical impossibility. |
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"I've heard an interesting ProLife argument the other day and was wondering what other people think of it.
Just to be clear I'm not aligning myself with either side.
The argument was a scenario,
Your dad has been in a car crash accident and was admitted to the hospital, he is in a comma but the Doctors let you know he will regain consciousness after a period of 9 months. However he will lose all of his memories with no chance of ever gaining them back. As a result the doctors are allowing you to make the choice and pulling the plug so to speak (euthanasia). What do you do?
That's less a pro-life argument and basically a ridiculous load of bollocks. Their hypothetical scenario could not and would not ever happen so is nonsense
It's a comparison made in a pro life and pro choice argument. Using the word "bollocks" and "nonsense" is hardly a valid counter argument, others have already made a much sounder counter arguments.
One of them being danger to woman health."
It's not a comparison used in proper pro life and pro choice debates. Where did you hear it?
Mrs |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that...
I agree that a few people have indeed answered the question, some said yes some said no. You are correct.
How is the comparison silly? In what way, saying something is silly is not a valid argument, I hope we can both agree on that. It's dismissive rather than proactive.
When is life considered a life? In my opinion when the process of pregnancy has started. But that's just my opinion.
It is silly because no adult in right mind would want to go through infancy and childhood a second time. And no right thinking medical person would inflict that on them.
SO on the subject of when a life is alive, you think at the moment the sperm and egg meet? there are a massive number of fertalised eggs that don't so much as divide into 2 cells let alone an infant human, would you accept that is not a life?
No adult in the right mind? I must be considered as a deranged person then and locked up in a psychiatric ward.
If I was 18 and lost all my memories and had to relearn everything again, I would chose to do that without a second thought.
In my opinion life is too short and valuable to dismiss it as easily as you do.
To make it clear, I think a life is a life when the pregnancy is started and results in a birth of a child that would develop a clear conscious."
You said it was the father of the decision maker, someone in their 4th or 5th decade quite a bit different to an 18 year old, it takes a human 16 to 20 years to become an adult, able to fully function and support themselves would you really want to achieve that at 70?
There always needs to be a balance between quantity and quality.
An embryo is not a person, or in fact a life form, based on scientific definition, just a potential one. The point at which it becomes a life is debatable.
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Just stared scrolling up, I take it the "I'm not aligning myself with either side" stance didn't last?
Telling women what to do with their bodies isn't pro-life. If you are truly pro-life, bone a doctor, become a nurse, gt yourself overseas doing aid work or do some of the many other things in life that mean getting put there and actually saving lives that are there to be saved"
It's hardly possible to stay on the fence when you have nothing but abuse thrown at you, on an adult forum...
If you're trying to argue Pro choice and pro life meanings take it up with the person who's made them publicized not me.
You're welcome to use another ways of describing each side and I'll be more than happy to use them too. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
Bit your scenario is complete nonsense. Can you tell me of one case ever where a family have been presented with the scenario you posted? It's a clinical and medical impossibility."
You do realise it's a hypothetical scenario right?
No I cannot give you a real life example, I have not spent a couple of years to go through medical cases or neither do I have access to such records.
It's not an impossibility if you cannot disprove it. It was impossible to run a sub 7 minute, mile and a half until the first person has done it.
Only because something hasn't yet occurred doesn't make it impossible.
As for the scenario, I would be shocked if a real case scenario wasn't present. |
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"I've heard an interesting ProLife argument the other day and was wondering what other people think of it.
Just to be clear I'm not aligning myself with either side.
The argument was a scenario,
Your dad has been in a car crash accident and was admitted to the hospital, he is in a comma but the Doctors let you know he will regain consciousness after a period of 9 months. However he will lose all of his memories with no chance of ever gaining them back. As a result the doctors are allowing you to make the choice and pulling the plug so to speak (euthanasia). What do you do?"
But that's not the same scenario at all is it? My dad has been my dad for 38 years. I've had 38 years of love and memories with him.
My dad is alive.
A foetus is not alive, it doesn't lose its memories because it never had them in the first place.
Also, I'm pretty sure mg dad would say pull the plug in that situation. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I've heard an interesting ProLife argument the other day and was wondering what other people think of it.
Just to be clear I'm not aligning myself with either side.
The argument was a scenario,
Your dad has been in a car crash accident and was admitted to the hospital, he is in a comma but the Doctors let you know he will regain consciousness after a period of 9 months. However he will lose all of his memories with no chance of ever gaining them back. As a result the doctors are allowing you to make the choice and pulling the plug so to speak (euthanasia). What do you do?
That's less a pro-life argument and basically a ridiculous load of bollocks. Their hypothetical scenario could not and would not ever happen so is nonsense
It's a comparison made in a pro life and pro choice argument. Using the word "bollocks" and "nonsense" is hardly a valid counter argument, others have already made a much sounder counter arguments.
One of them being danger to woman health.
It's not a comparison used in proper pro life and pro choice debates. Where did you hear it?
Mrs"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EymDXH-u8Y0
To minimise any further abuse thrown at me;
I don't like the guy who makes the argument
I'm a social-liberal, he's a conservatist
I'm an atheist, he's religious
I disagree with majority of his social and political views
I watch the video because it popped up in my suggestions, and I do like to listen to political and social debates. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The top and bottom of it is that we shouldn’t be making any generalised comparisons of anything of such a sensitive nature.. both scenarios should be assessed on their details and decisions made— undoubtedly after a whole lot of soul searching in the majority of cases— by those involved. Nobody who has never been there can make any kind of judgement on the right or wrong thing to do in my honest opinion, it’s all completely subjective |
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"I've heard an interesting ProLife argument the other day and was wondering what other people think of it.
Just to be clear I'm not aligning myself with either side.
The argument was a scenario,
Your dad has been in a car crash accident and was admitted to the hospital, he is in a comma but the Doctors let you know he will regain consciousness after a period of 9 months. However he will lose all of his memories with no chance of ever gaining them back. As a result the doctors are allowing you to make the choice and pulling the plug so to speak (euthanasia). What do you do?
That's less a pro-life argument and basically a ridiculous load of bollocks. Their hypothetical scenario could not and would not ever happen so is nonsense
It's a comparison made in a pro life and pro choice argument. Using the word "bollocks" and "nonsense" is hardly a valid counter argument, others have already made a much sounder counter arguments.
One of them being danger to woman health.
It's not a comparison used in proper pro life and pro choice debates. Where did you hear it?
Mrs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EymDXH-u8Y0
To minimise any further abuse thrown at me;
I don't like the guy who makes the argument
I'm a social-liberal, he's a conservatist
I'm an atheist, he's religious
I disagree with majority of his social and political views
I watch the video because it popped up in my suggestions, and I do like to listen to political and social debates."
What abuse have I thrown exactly?
Mrs |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that...
I agree that a few people have indeed answered the question, some said yes some said no. You are correct.
How is the comparison silly? In what way, saying something is silly is not a valid argument, I hope we can both agree on that. It's dismissive rather than proactive.
When is life considered a life? In my opinion when the process of pregnancy has started. But that's just my opinion.
It is silly because no adult in right mind would want to go through infancy and childhood a second time. And no right thinking medical person would inflict that on them.
SO on the subject of when a life is alive, you think at the moment the sperm and egg meet? there are a massive number of fertalised eggs that don't so much as divide into 2 cells let alone an infant human, would you accept that is not a life?
No adult in the right mind? I must be considered as a deranged person then and locked up in a psychiatric ward.
If I was 18 and lost all my memories and had to relearn everything again, I would chose to do that without a second thought.
In my opinion life is too short and valuable to dismiss it as easily as you do.
To make it clear, I think a life is a life when the pregnancy is started and results in a birth of a child that would develop a clear conscious.
You said it was the father of the decision maker, someone in their 4th or 5th decade quite a bit different to an 18 year old, it takes a human 16 to 20 years to become an adult, able to fully function and support themselves would you really want to achieve that at 70?
There always needs to be a balance between quantity and quality.
An embryo is not a person, or in fact a life form, based on scientific definition, just a potential one. The point at which it becomes a life is debatable.
"
It takes a baby (not a human) to become an adult 16-20 years, and even that can be argued.
I said the father in this scenario, you made an argument for all adults, therefore I made a counter argument for an adult of 18 years of age.
It's all a debate after all but I'm glad you're one of the few willing people to take it as one and make valid arguments.
(My time is running out this evening) So I hope my absence or little engagement tonight is not taken as trying to get away from it all together. Thank you so far to those people who chose to make their counter arguments |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I've heard an interesting ProLife argument the other day and was wondering what other people think of it.
Just to be clear I'm not aligning myself with either side.
The argument was a scenario,
Your dad has been in a car crash accident and was admitted to the hospital, he is in a comma but the Doctors let you know he will regain consciousness after a period of 9 months. However he will lose all of his memories with no chance of ever gaining them back. As a result the doctors are allowing you to make the choice and pulling the plug so to speak (euthanasia). What do you do?
That's less a pro-life argument and basically a ridiculous load of bollocks. Their hypothetical scenario could not and would not ever happen so is nonsense
It's a comparison made in a pro life and pro choice argument. Using the word "bollocks" and "nonsense" is hardly a valid counter argument, others have already made a much sounder counter arguments.
One of them being danger to woman health.
It's not a comparison used in proper pro life and pro choice debates. Where did you hear it?
Mrs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EymDXH-u8Y0
To minimise any further abuse thrown at me;
I don't like the guy who makes the argument
I'm a social-liberal, he's a conservatist
I'm an atheist, he's religious
I disagree with majority of his social and political views
I watch the video because it popped up in my suggestions, and I do like to listen to political and social debates.
What abuse have I thrown exactly?
Mrs"
I haven't said you have, it was meant to be addressed to the general contributors. My apologies if it sounded that way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes and as you can tell almost no one has actually addressed the whole point of the thread which was the question of would you or would you not.
Many have answered both to leave the mac_ine on and turn it off, even more have questioned the validty of the comparison.
Just to be clear, I have said turn it off, and that it is a silly comparison.
I also questioned when is a life considered a life, but nobody had an opinion on that...
I agree that a few people have indeed answered the question, some said yes some said no. You are correct.
How is the comparison silly? In what way, saying something is silly is not a valid argument, I hope we can both agree on that. It's dismissive rather than proactive.
When is life considered a life? In my opinion when the process of pregnancy has started. But that's just my opinion.
Fortunately OP, your opinion has no bearing on anything and you (probably, I assume, as you identify as a man) will never experience pregnancy so as far as opinions go....yours is pretty irrelevant
You do realize that I believe a woman should have a choice of what to do with the pregnancy right?
My opinion holds as much value as anyone else by the way, it's an opinion, it's not law, it's not a command, and it's not a fact."
Of course you are allowed to have an opinion. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Fact is OP you are wrong to consider a divided cell to be a life, it isn't.
Exactly when it becomes a life is hard to say, but even then it has no right to life, especially at the expense of another human. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Fact is OP you are wrong to consider a divided cell to be a life, it isn't.
Exactly when it becomes a life is hard to say, but even then it has no right to life, especially at the expense of another human."
You are entering a very very complex and grey line by saying "at the expense of another human". Smoking a cigarette can have an impact on the health of another human, would the smoker have not right to live at that point. There is so much 'grey line' in here and various different examples your argument can easily become an oxymoron. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Fact is OP you are wrong to consider a divided cell to be a life, it isn't.
Exactly when it becomes a life is hard to say, but even then it has no right to life, especially at the expense of another human.
You are entering a very very complex and grey line by saying "at the expense of another human". Smoking a cigarette can have an impact on the health of another human, would the smoker have not right to live at that point. There is so much 'grey line' in here and various different examples your argument can easily become an oxymoron."
Ok let's go as extremely silly as your original sçenario, if you and another person each have a gun, and there is enough water to keep one of you alive....
Bottom line is a human can move away from a smoker, a woman needs assistance to move away from an embryo.
Side question, do you eat free range eggs? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If your Pro life go protest the graveyard and if your Pro choice try at least some form of the 28 types of contraception available... Failing that try sowing your knees together |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Ok let's go as extremely silly as your original sçenario, if you and another person each have a gun, and there is enough water to keep one of you alive....
Then one of us is going to end up being dead, what's your point?
Bottom line is a human can move away from a smoker, a woman needs assistance to move away from an embryo.
So just because a smoker decides to toxify oxygen in public areas, I should be locked at home or willingly wear a mask, take detours to reach my desired destinations? What about carbon emissions from vehicles? What about a person who dropped a banana peel over which I may trip over and end up getting hurt?
Side question, do you eat free range eggs?
I do not eat eggs in their pure form, I can't comment whether egg based products I do eat, are from free range eggs. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Having spent several minutes reading this I must congratulate the OP on possibly thee worst analogy I have ever seen, the worst ability to put their point across ever and the most brilliant ability to offend people by adding comments in at the end of replies that have nothing whatsoever to do with the replies and look to be directed at the person he's responding to but aren't.
A hilarious read.
Oh, and for my case I wouldn't pull the plug if I thought there was any chance of a decent life after recovery and I would if we had a pre arrangement and right now I need to discuss with my very elderly parents as recovery from that in your 80s is very unlikely.
But zero to do with abortion,  "
I'm sure this is your unbiased and researched opinion.
Clearly nothing to do with you heavily disagreeing with me in other of my threads, or even not reading through this one properly before posting your comment about ME and "my analogy" in the first paragraph.
Good on you man, keep at it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Having spent several minutes reading this I must congratulate the OP on possibly thee worst analogy I have ever seen, the worst ability to put their point across ever and the most brilliant ability to offend people by adding comments in at the end of replies that have nothing whatsoever to do with the replies and look to be directed at the person he's responding to but aren't.
A hilarious read.
Oh, and for my case I wouldn't pull the plug if I thought there was any chance of a decent life after recovery and I would if we had a pre arrangement and right now I need to discuss with my very elderly parents as recovery from that in your 80s is very unlikely.
But zero to do with abortion,
I'm sure this is your unbiased and researched opinion.
Clearly nothing to do with you heavily disagreeing with me in other of my threads, or even not reading through this one properly before posting your comment about ME and "my analogy" in the first paragraph.
Good on you man, keep at it "
As far as I'm aware I haven't seen any of your other threads, and the rest of your paragraph, as everything else in this post is utter nonsense. Literally like you've just put words together without thought. I'm not starting drinking for another few hours, but good on you for starting so early. |
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"When you talk of pro life... Are you on about anti abortionists? It is hard to tell from that scenario, I think, as it doesn't really correlate at all
Pro Life vs. Pro choice does relate to abortions if that's what you're asking.
Whether the scenario doesn't correlate it could be argued, but that's not the point of the thread as it would lead into an endless argument over every minor detail.
Taking any comparison with abortion out of the equation (because I see no similarity) then I'd not pull the plug.
Memories are important, yes, but it's perfectly possible to lead a fulfilling life and relearn things - it happens to both stroke victims and those living with dementia.
If there was no chance of any quality of life and dignity then I'd pull the plug - as I hope somebody will be able to for me in the future should the need arise.
A
If you don't see the similarity between abortion and this scenario, you are really trying to not to see it or don't want to.
Sorry. I disagree.
One is a bunch of cells that has yet to develop cognitive function and mental capacity. The same as many that do not go on to survive a full term pregnancy.
The other is a person that has lived, breathed, formed relationships (in this case been a parent), functioned as an individual, been capable of rational thought and cognitive functioning and who has through an accident temporarily lost the capacity to do all of those things but for a defined period of time, after which they will return to the previous state minus prior memories.
Vastly different.
A"
indeed |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Having spent several minutes reading this I must congratulate the OP on possibly thee worst analogy I have ever seen, the worst ability to put their point across ever and the most brilliant ability to offend people by adding comments in at the end of replies that have nothing whatsoever to do with the replies and look to be directed at the person he's responding to but aren't.
A hilarious read.
Oh, and for my case I wouldn't pull the plug if I thought there was any chance of a decent life after recovery and I would if we had a pre arrangement and right now I need to discuss with my very elderly parents as recovery from that in your 80s is very unlikely.
But zero to do with abortion,
I'm sure this is your unbiased and researched opinion.
Clearly nothing to do with you heavily disagreeing with me in other of my threads, or even not reading through this one properly before posting your comment about ME and "my analogy" in the first paragraph.
Good on you man, keep at it
As far as I'm aware I haven't seen any of your other threads, and the rest of your paragraph, as everything else in this post is utter nonsense. Literally like you've just put words together without thought. I'm not starting drinking for another few hours, but good on you for starting so early. "
Saying something is utter nonsense without logical thought to back it up is utter nonsense. See what I did there?
Don't worry about my drinking, I only partake a small amount in social situations 2-3 times a year.
Thanks for your creative contribution |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Bit your scenario is complete nonsense. Can you tell me of one case ever where a family have been presented with the scenario you posted? It's a clinical and medical impossibility.
You do realise it's a hypothetical scenario right?
No I cannot give you a real life example, I have not spent a couple of years to go through medical cases or neither do I have access to such records.
It's not an impossibility if you cannot disprove it. It was impossible to run a sub 7 minute, mile and a half until the first person has done it.
Only because something hasn't yet occurred doesn't make it impossible.
As for the scenario, I would be shocked if a real case scenario wasn't present."
An impossible scenario and a hypothetical scenario are 2 completely different things  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just stared scrolling up, I take it the "I'm not aligning myself with either side" stance didn't last?
Telling women what to do with their bodies isn't pro-life. If you are truly pro-life, bone a doctor, become a nurse, gt yourself overseas doing aid work or do some of the many other things in life that mean getting put there and actually saving lives that are there to be saved
It's hardly possible to stay on the fence when you have nothing but abuse thrown at you, on an adult forum...
If you're trying to argue Pro choice and pro life meanings take it up with the person who's made them publicized not me.
You're welcome to use another ways of describing each side and I'll be more than happy to use them too."
So you were sitting on the fence with this but are now pro-life based on the "abuse" you've received on this thread. And by abuse you mean people disagreeing with you despite the fact you willingly encouraged debate in your opening post?
I'll be honest I hate pro-lifers. And I rarely use the word hate but here it is justified. Anyone that aligns themself with the sort of person who think bullying and intimidating women outside abortion clinics is beyond contempt. The behaviour is vile and makes a mockery of your own claims to have been abused.
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Just stared scrolling up, I take it the "I'm not aligning myself with either side" stance didn't last?
Telling women what to do with their bodies isn't pro-life. If you are truly pro-life, bone a doctor, become a nurse, gt yourself overseas doing aid work or do some of the many other things in life that mean getting put there and actually saving lives that are there to be saved
It's hardly possible to stay on the fence when you have nothing but abuse thrown at you, on an adult forum...
If you're trying to argue Pro choice and pro life meanings take it up with the person who's made them publicized not me.
You're welcome to use another ways of describing each side and I'll be more than happy to use them too.
So you were sitting on the fence with this but are now pro-life based on the "abuse" you've received on this thread. And by abuse you mean people disagreeing with you despite the fact you willingly encouraged debate in your opening post?
I'll be honest I hate pro-lifers. And I rarely use the word hate but here it is justified. Anyone that aligns themself with the sort of person who think bullying and intimidating women outside abortion clinics is beyond contempt. The behaviour is vile and makes a mockery of your own claims to have been abused.
"
No I am "pro choice" I don't know where you got the "pro life" from. I said I'm too divided on the matter and would not want to make that choice, leaving it to the pregnant woman instead. Please do not mismrepresent what I said. I chose to disclose what my view on it is, as I have received abuse here and in PM's, linking me to pro life.
I'm fine with people disagreeing, that's what a debate is about and that is not what I meant by abuse. But being called a cunt for starting a thread clearly counts as one.
You're talking about me being abusive yet you twisted what I said in both paragraphs and state you hate me for a bleieve I don't share. Hypocritical much, don't you think? |
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