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Severe mental health issues and reform
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Ok , I know this will piss many of you off , but here goes anyway .
When someone has severe mental health problems like schizophrenia or a bipolar manic episode , they aren’t necessarily in a position to be rational . So the proposed changes including not using the police , and allowing patients to say what they want seems a bit crazy to me .
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them . And try talking reason to a bipolar person going through a manic phase .
So what’s going to be protecting the innocent public when a person suffering an episode does something to harm them ? And what’s going to stop a person suffering a mental breakdown from hurting themselves ? No police and patients deciding what’s best for them ? I don’t think so .
And the lack of funding the nhs gets means that the health authorities are hardly in a position to deal with emergencies in a safe and effective way . More madness or about time it was changed ?
Over to you guys .... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People suffering from mental illness are more likely to be victims than commit crimes. They are also more likely to hurt themselves than others.
"
Exactly this  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ok , I know this will piss many of you off , but here goes anyway .
When someone has severe mental health problems like schizophrenia or a bipolar manic episode , they aren’t necessarily in a position to be rational . So the proposed changes including not using the police , and allowing patients to say what they want seems a bit crazy to me .
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them . And try talking reason to a bipolar person going through a manic phase .
So what’s going to be protecting the innocent public when a person suffering an episode does something to harm them ? And what’s going to stop a person suffering a mental breakdown from hurting themselves ? No police and patients deciding what’s best for them ? I don’t think so .
And the lack of funding the nhs gets means that the health authorities are hardly in a position to deal with emergencies in a safe and effective way . More madness or about time it was changed ?
Over to you guys ...."
Of course the NHS is struggling to meet their needs. Sadly the case in all areas not just mental health. We have a 1940s system operating in the 21st century |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'd be more concerned with the lack of support for their own safety. As someone who has recently sat with a teenager attempting suicide my concern is the safety of those suffering and beyond reach without medical intervention. |
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"People suffering from mental illness are more likely to be victims than commit crimes. They are also more likely to hurt themselves than others.
"
Which is why I said how will we stop them hurting themselves !
And it’s not necessarily the case that they are more likely to be victims than committing crimes . The voices in my head told me to do it , is not an uncommon phenomenon . |
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"I'd be more concerned with the lack of support for their own safety. As someone who has recently sat with a teenager attempting suicide my concern is the safety of those suffering and beyond reach without medical intervention. "
Who would arrive first to help though ?
Police or the local health authority ?
That’s what worries me |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People suffering from mental illness are more likely to be victims than commit crimes. They are also more likely to hurt themselves than others.
"
This . Putting a person suffering a psychotic, manic or depressive episode into a police cell does far more harm than any good. Also takes police officers off the streets doing constant watch until the 136 suite can accept the patient who is often in a worse state and more distressed, scared and confused than before being locked up as a criminal.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The police service is fundamentally filling the cracks of the major lack of 24/7 support and response by other agencies.
Yes, no doubt those suffering are not best suited to the care of police officers, but the harsh reality is, that very few effective resources are out there to attend spontaneously and commit.
Nice notion, but noones there to take over. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'd be more concerned with the lack of support for their own safety. As someone who has recently sat with a teenager attempting suicide my concern is the safety of those suffering and beyond reach without medical intervention.
Who would arrive first to help though ?
Police or the local health authority ?
That’s what worries me "
Both of which are under huge pressures, I see it with education too |
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"People suffering from mental illness are more likely to be victims than commit crimes. They are also more likely to hurt themselves than others.
This . Putting a person suffering a psychotic, manic or depressive episode into a police cell does far more harm than any good. Also takes police officers off the streets doing constant watch until the 136 suite can accept the patient who is often in a worse state and more distressed, scared and confused than before being locked up as a criminal.
"
Not if they are suicidal , violent or self harming .
They are far better off with some form of supervision than none at all surely ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'd be more concerned with the lack of support for their own safety. As someone who has recently sat with a teenager attempting suicide my concern is the safety of those suffering and beyond reach without medical intervention.
Who would arrive first to help though ?
Police or the local health authority ?
That’s what worries me "
In my case it was the ambulance service after 6 conversations and a 5 hour wait. The police were held up elsewhere but meant to be first. But for those amazing services, I doubt that young girl would still be here. |
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"I'd be more concerned with the lack of support for their own safety. As someone who has recently sat with a teenager attempting suicide my concern is the safety of those suffering and beyond reach without medical intervention.
Who would arrive first to help though ?
Police or the local health authority ?
That’s what worries me
Both of which are under huge pressures, I see it with education too"
I agree , but taking one option away and letting those who aren’t qualified to treat themselves seems a crazy idea . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People suffering from mental illness are more likely to be victims than commit crimes. They are also more likely to hurt themselves than others.
This . Putting a person suffering a psychotic, manic or depressive episode into a police cell does far more harm than any good. Also takes police officers off the streets doing constant watch until the 136 suite can accept the patient who is often in a worse state and more distressed, scared and confused than before being locked up as a criminal.
Not if they are suicidal , violent or self harming .
They are far better off with some form of supervision than none at all surely ? "
I'd think this too. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People suffering from mental illness are more likely to be victims than commit crimes. They are also more likely to hurt themselves than others.
This . Putting a person suffering a psychotic, manic or depressive episode into a police cell does far more harm than any good. Also takes police officers off the streets doing constant watch until the 136 suite can accept the patient who is often in a worse state and more distressed, scared and confused than before being locked up as a criminal.
Not if they are suicidal , violent or self harming .
They are far better off with some form of supervision than none at all surely ? "
Mental health care is not a policing role. The police have been plugging gaps in other failing public sector areas for years and it's got to stop. The police service in the Uk is on it's arse now, unable to fulfil it's own responsibilities, never mind the failings in health and education. I recently read a blog from a senior police officer about how he is involved helping children with problems. All very touchy feely and wonderful, but his force is crumbling about him, with massive waste and management incompetence that is costing hundreds of thousands in taxpayers money, and providing a very poor service. |
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"I'd be more concerned with the lack of support for their own safety. As someone who has recently sat with a teenager attempting suicide my concern is the safety of those suffering and beyond reach without medical intervention.
Who would arrive first to help though ?
Police or the local health authority ?
That’s what worries me
In my case it was the ambulance service after 6 conversations and a 5 hour wait. The police were held up elsewhere but meant to be first. But for those amazing services, I doubt that young girl would still be here. "
A five hour wait is crazy !
And it’s interesting that the police took longer , very surprising . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People suffering from mental illness are more likely to be victims than commit crimes. They are also more likely to hurt themselves than others.
This . Putting a person suffering a psychotic, manic or depressive episode into a police cell does far more harm than any good. Also takes police officers off the streets doing constant watch until the 136 suite can accept the patient who is often in a worse state and more distressed, scared and confused than before being locked up as a criminal.
Not if they are suicidal , violent or self harming .
They are far better off with some form of supervision than none at all surely ? "
That is what the 136 suite is form that is ita purpose. Trained professionals. |
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"People suffering from mental illness are more likely to be victims than commit crimes. They are also more likely to hurt themselves than others.
This . Putting a person suffering a psychotic, manic or depressive episode into a police cell does far more harm than any good. Also takes police officers off the streets doing constant watch until the 136 suite can accept the patient who is often in a worse state and more distressed, scared and confused than before being locked up as a criminal.
Not if they are suicidal , violent or self harming .
They are far better off with some form of supervision than none at all surely ?
That is what the 136 suite is form that is ita purpose. Trained professionals. "
That’s my point , take that away and what happens then ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'd be more concerned with the lack of support for their own safety. As someone who has recently sat with a teenager attempting suicide my concern is the safety of those suffering and beyond reach without medical intervention.
Who would arrive first to help though ?
Police or the local health authority ?
That’s what worries me
In my case it was the ambulance service after 6 conversations and a 5 hour wait. The police were held up elsewhere but meant to be first. But for those amazing services, I doubt that young girl would still be here.
A five hour wait is crazy !
And it’s interesting that the police took longer , very surprising ."
I suspect there was either a miscommunication about the level of urgency, they got diverted or there weren't any!
It's common for the police to be first response to mental health issue, but properly trained resources should take it on. Mostly they don't, or even refuse to, hence people with severe mental health issues end up in police custody which is totally inappropriate for their well being. The police receive minimal mental health awareness training but are frequently the only contact suffering people have. Frankly it's appalling. |
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Mental illness,
Sorry op you’re way off the mark here, I have suffered depression and anxiety, at this point my youngest whom I adore, was under 18, I had to agree to put her on the at risk list because of an illness, it’s an illness, please remember that. People who suffer breakdowns, anxiety issues all are classed in the same bracket.. I’m not a violent person, never would be either.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People suffering from mental illness are more likely to be victims than commit crimes. They are also more likely to hurt themselves than others.
This . Putting a person suffering a psychotic, manic or depressive episode into a police cell does far more harm than any good. Also takes police officers off the streets doing constant watch until the 136 suite can accept the patient who is often in a worse state and more distressed, scared and confused than before being locked up as a criminal.
Not if they are suicidal , violent or self harming .
They are far better off with some form of supervision than none at all surely ?
Mental health care is not a policing role. The police have been plugging gaps in other failing public sector areas for years and it's got to stop. The police service in the Uk is on it's arse now, unable to fulfil it's own responsibilities, never mind the failings in health and education. I recently read a blog from a senior police officer about how he is involved helping children with problems. All very touchy feely and wonderful, but his force is crumbling about him, with massive waste and management incompetence that is costing hundreds of thousands in taxpayers money, and providing a very poor service."
Exactly. The police as well.as the NHS have had major cuts. Thousands of police officers and police staff down. I would imagine many people would be absolutely SHOCKED at how many police officers are actually available on a Saturday night in a busy town. It won't be half or even quarter of what most people will imagine.
Police will always turn up when they have officers available and never say no. Unlike social services, mental health services who clock off at 5pm on a Friday and have skeletal staff and crisis team for the weekend. Who I am sure have many great success stories however in my experience I don't hold them in high regard. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'd be more concerned with the lack of support for their own safety. As someone who has recently sat with a teenager attempting suicide my concern is the safety of those suffering and beyond reach without medical intervention.
Who would arrive first to help though ?
Police or the local health authority ?
That’s what worries me
In my case it was the ambulance service after 6 conversations and a 5 hour wait. The police were held up elsewhere but meant to be first. But for those amazing services, I doubt that young girl would still be here.
A five hour wait is crazy !
And it’s interesting that the police took longer , very surprising .
I suspect there was either a miscommunication about the level of urgency, they got diverted or there weren't any!
It's common for the police to be first response to mental health issue, but properly trained resources should take it on. Mostly they don't, or even refuse to, hence people with severe mental health issues end up in police custody which is totally inappropriate for their well being. The police receive minimal mental health awareness training but are frequently the only contact suffering people have. Frankly it's appalling. "
Totally agree. |
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ok ive read it. Im talking from the point of view of someone who has been sectioned 9 times and in hospital 11.
First i want to address "mental breakdown" anyone can have a breakdown at anytime due to many reasons from being physically ill to bereavement to stress at work. Should we lock everyone up.
As for the advanced statement ive had one for over 15 years the rule was they "try to adhere to your wishes as much as they can" it just means a judge will need to overturn them and unless its exceptional cases like the ekectric shock treatment then i cant see why it would need to be overturned. Ive also always had a family memember liase about my illness.
They will now have the power to overturn their section. Well a lot of peoples sections will be up before it goes to court a section can last as little as 72 hrs or 6months+.
Police are not always involved when someone is sectioned only when they have been violent and then its upto the psyciatric asseser at the police station wbether tbey need to be sectioned.
We always read in the newspaper every time a violent crime has been committed by someone with a mentak illness but they never state that someone without a mental illness became violent.
locking up and throwing away the key isnt the answer(although i agree in some cases( |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'd be more concerned with the lack of support for their own safety. As someone who has recently sat with a teenager attempting suicide my concern is the safety of those suffering and beyond reach without medical intervention.
Who would arrive first to help though ?
Police or the local health authority ?
That’s what worries me
In my case it was the ambulance service after 6 conversations and a 5 hour wait. The police were held up elsewhere but meant to be first. But for those amazing services, I doubt that young girl would still be here.
A five hour wait is crazy !
And it’s interesting that the police took longer , very surprising .
I suspect there was either a miscommunication about the level of urgency, they got diverted or there weren't any!
It's common for the police to be first response to mental health issue, but properly trained resources should take it on. Mostly they don't, or even refuse to, hence people with severe mental health issues end up in police custody which is totally inappropriate for their well being. The police receive minimal mental health awareness training but are frequently the only contact suffering people have. Frankly it's appalling. "
Unfortunately it wasn't immediately taken seriously as my stepdaughter hasn't got a panicked tone. We were also with the girl and keeping her safe so there was no longer an immediate danger. The police were diverted to a brawl so took longer than the ambulance, but like you say, are not trained in mental health enough to deal with these situations, as aren't ambulance staff. There's a huge, huge gap in mental health response and powers to section patients for their own safety. This same girl wasn't seen for hours at the hospital and ran away the next morning. Thankfully, she was convinced to self admit days later and is on her way to recovery for now.
Much more needs to be done. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Treat each case individually!
Some you have to lock up.
Some can be treated.
I wouldnt trust them, I guess they can flip at anytime.
But they deserve dignity and be treated same as a normal person if detained.
|
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I have close friends who work in the psychiatric departments locally . And as another poster pointed out , they clock in and clock off leaving a skeleton staff overnight and outside office hours ,
Often a senior staff official has to man the department as no one else is available and he or she will have already worked a full shift .
There are not the resources to just drop the police without offering an alternative . And as another poster said , who has been through all this , having a family member present will help stop certain treatments which may not be the best . I fail to see how a patient alone can decide what treatment and medicine is best for them . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have close friends who work in the psychiatric departments locally . And as another poster pointed out , they clock in and clock off leaving a skeleton staff overnight and outside office hours ,
Often a senior staff official has to man the department as no one else is available and he or she will have already worked a full shift .
There are not the resources to just drop the police without offering an alternative . And as another poster said , who has been through all this , having a family member present will help stop certain treatments which may not be the best . I fail to see how a patient alone can decide what treatment and medicine is best for them ."
A patient simply can't. Been there and come out the other side. But I didn't think like myself for a very long time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People suffering from mental illness are more likely to be victims than commit crimes. They are also more likely to hurt themselves than others.
"
This isn't necessarily true ... Google mental health in prisons
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have close friends who work in the psychiatric departments locally . And as another poster pointed out , they clock in and clock off leaving a skeleton staff overnight and outside office hours ,
Often a senior staff official has to man the department as no one else is available and he or she will have already worked a full shift .
There are not the resources to just drop the police without offering an alternative . And as another poster said , who has been through all this , having a family member present will help stop certain treatments which may not be the best . I fail to see how a patient alone can decide what treatment and medicine is best for them ."
Agreed. Something seriously needs to be done to resource mental health staff in facilities. Its sad that things need to become drastic, or fatal for things to be done. However in this case , those drastic things and those fatalities have happened and things still haven't been done to help matters.
Its extremely saddening that the nhs mental health service and police and all other services are at past the point of crisis and still nothing is being done x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have close friends who work in the psychiatric departments locally . And as another poster pointed out , they clock in and clock off leaving a skeleton staff overnight and outside office hours ,
Often a senior staff official has to man the department as no one else is available and he or she will have already worked a full shift .
There are not the resources to just drop the police without offering an alternative . And as another poster said , who has been through all this , having a family member present will help stop certain treatments which may not be the best . I fail to see how a patient alone can decide what treatment and medicine is best for them .
A patient simply can't. Been there and come out the other side. But I didn't think like myself for a very long time. "
Did they inject or give you tabs that made you loopy ??? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have close friends who work in the psychiatric departments locally . And as another poster pointed out , they clock in and clock off leaving a skeleton staff overnight and outside office hours ,
Often a senior staff official has to man the department as no one else is available and he or she will have already worked a full shift .
There are not the resources to just drop the police without offering an alternative . And as another poster said , who has been through all this , having a family member present will help stop certain treatments which may not be the best . I fail to see how a patient alone can decide what treatment and medicine is best for them .
A patient simply can't. Been there and come out the other side. But I didn't think like myself for a very long time.
Did they inject or give you tabs that made you loopy ???"
Please explain? |
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"I have close friends who work in the psychiatric departments locally . And as another poster pointed out , they clock in and clock off leaving a skeleton staff overnight and outside office hours ,
Often a senior staff official has to man the department as no one else is available and he or she will have already worked a full shift .
There are not the resources to just drop the police without offering an alternative . And as another poster said , who has been through all this , having a family member present will help stop certain treatments which may not be the best . I fail to see how a patient alone can decide what treatment and medicine is best for them ."
can you point me to the bit where it says the patient will make their own decisions whilst ill? As far as im aware( i may be wrong) but a statement is for seriously ill people to discuss and sign with their key worker whilst going through a period of being well. Everyone i know has always made one when well its to give you the best options for when you become ill. One copy goes to your doctor and one on your psyciatric reports |
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By *ANDA2Couple
over a year ago
Henley Arden |
"Treat each case individually!
Some you have to lock up.
Some can be treated.
I wouldnt trust them, I guess they can flip at anytime.
But they deserve dignity and be treated same as a normal person if detained.
"
Comments Which shows a huge lack of awareness of mental illness.
More people are killed by ‘sane’ people than the mentally ill. So who would you trust? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have close friends who work in the psychiatric departments locally . And as another poster pointed out , they clock in and clock off leaving a skeleton staff overnight and outside office hours ,
Often a senior staff official has to man the department as no one else is available and he or she will have already worked a full shift .
There are not the resources to just drop the police without offering an alternative . And as another poster said , who has been through all this , having a family member present will help stop certain treatments which may not be the best . I fail to see how a patient alone can decide what treatment and medicine is best for them .
A patient simply can't. Been there and come out the other side. But I didn't think like myself for a very long time.
Did they inject or give you tabs that made you loopy ???
Please explain?"
As in medication where you’ve no idea what’s happening and just left feeling crazy ??? |
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"I have close friends who work in the psychiatric departments locally . And as another poster pointed out , they clock in and clock off leaving a skeleton staff overnight and outside office hours ,
Often a senior staff official has to man the department as no one else is available and he or she will have already worked a full shift .
There are not the resources to just drop the police without offering an alternative . And as another poster said , who has been through all this , having a family member present will help stop certain treatments which may not be the best . I fail to see how a patient alone can decide what treatment and medicine is best for them .can you point me to the bit where it says the patient will make their own decisions whilst ill? As far as im aware( i may be wrong) but a statement is for seriously ill people to discuss and sign with their key worker whilst going through a period of being well. Everyone i know has always made one when well its to give you the best options for when you become ill. One copy goes to your doctor and one on your psyciatric reports"
The current story being told on the news is suggesting it Diamond . It hasn’t been implemented yet . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have close friends who work in the psychiatric departments locally . And as another poster pointed out , they clock in and clock off leaving a skeleton staff overnight and outside office hours ,
Often a senior staff official has to man the department as no one else is available and he or she will have already worked a full shift .
There are not the resources to just drop the police without offering an alternative . And as another poster said , who has been through all this , having a family member present will help stop certain treatments which may not be the best . I fail to see how a patient alone can decide what treatment and medicine is best for them .
A patient simply can't. Been there and come out the other side. But I didn't think like myself for a very long time.
Did they inject or give you tabs that made you loopy ???
Please explain?
As in medication where you’ve no idea what’s happening and just left feeling crazy ???"
I didn't say that was the case. I actually went through prescription drug withdrawal and it had a huge impact on my health and completely changed my personality.
Mental health doesn't really work as you suggest.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People suffering from mental illness are more likely to be victims than commit crimes. They are also more likely to hurt themselves than others.
This isn't necessarily true ... Google mental health in prisons
"
Yes it is for a wider scope of the public than just in prisons.
I prefer the word of a clinical psychologist to Googling. But a very quick Google will find an article in the British Medical Journal which supports my point.
'Those with mental illness make up a small proportion of violent offenders. A recent meta-analysis by Large et al found that in order to prevent one stranger homicide, 35 000 patients with schizophrenia judged to be at high risk of violence would need to be detained. This clearly contradicts the general belief that patients with severe mental illness are a threat.' |
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By *ANDA2Couple
over a year ago
Henley Arden |
"I have close friends who work in the psychiatric departments locally . And as another poster pointed out , they clock in and clock off leaving a skeleton staff overnight and outside office hours ,
Often a senior staff official has to man the department as no one else is available and he or she will have already worked a full shift .
There are not the resources to just drop the police without offering an alternative . And as another poster said , who has been through all this , having a family member present will help stop certain treatments which may not be the best . I fail to see how a patient alone can decide what treatment and medicine is best for them .
A patient simply can't. Been there and come out the other side. But I didn't think like myself for a very long time.
Did they inject or give you tabs that made you loopy ???
Please explain?
As in medication where you’ve no idea what’s happening and just left feeling crazy ???"
Please stop using such disrespectful words like -loopy and crazy. Please educate yourself before contributing further. |
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"I have close friends who work in the psychiatric departments locally . And as another poster pointed out , they clock in and clock off leaving a skeleton staff overnight and outside office hours ,
Often a senior staff official has to man the department as no one else is available and he or she will have already worked a full shift .
There are not the resources to just drop the police without offering an alternative . And as another poster said , who has been through all this , having a family member present will help stop certain treatments which may not be the best . I fail to see how a patient alone can decide what treatment and medicine is best for them .can you point me to the bit where it says the patient will make their own decisions whilst ill? As far as im aware( i may be wrong) but a statement is for seriously ill people to discuss and sign with their key worker whilst going through a period of being well. Everyone i know has always made one when well its to give you the best options for when you become ill. One copy goes to your doctor and one on your psyciatric reports
The current story being told on the news is suggesting it Diamond . It hasn’t been implemented yet ."
well i think one of us is misunderstanding it doesnt make any sense what your saying how can someone sign an advanced statement when they are acutely ill
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have close friends who work in the psychiatric departments locally . And as another poster pointed out , they clock in and clock off leaving a skeleton staff overnight and outside office hours ,
Often a senior staff official has to man the department as no one else is available and he or she will have already worked a full shift .
There are not the resources to just drop the police without offering an alternative . And as another poster said , who has been through all this , having a family member present will help stop certain treatments which may not be the best . I fail to see how a patient alone can decide what treatment and medicine is best for them .
A patient simply can't. Been there and come out the other side. But I didn't think like myself for a very long time.
Did they inject or give you tabs that made you loopy ???
Please explain?
As in medication where you’ve no idea what’s happening and just left feeling crazy ???
Please stop using such disrespectful words like -loopy and crazy. Please educate yourself before contributing further. "
Granted the choice of labeling is piss poor but I think there is a desire to learn here... I'd rather people ask questions it will help reduce the stigma associated with it. But the lady is right those who are mentally unwell should not be referred to as loopy |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People suffering from mental illness are more likely to be victims than commit crimes. They are also more likely to hurt themselves than others.
This isn't necessarily true ... Google mental health in prisons
Yes it is for a wider scope of the public than just in prisons.
I prefer the word of a clinical psychologist to Googling. But a very quick Google will find an article in the British Medical Journal which supports my point.
'Those with mental illness make up a small proportion of violent offenders. A recent meta-analysis by Large et al found that in order to prevent one stranger homicide, 35 000 patients with schizophrenia judged to be at high risk of violence would need to be detained. This clearly contradicts the general belief that patients with severe mental illness are a threat.'"
Any form of sociopathy including the most severe the psychopath (the most violent of offenders) are forms of mental illness ... |
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right i think ive got to the bottom of it. They will ve writing down their care and treatment in "advance choice documents" which speaks for itself and wont be much different to what weve got now. No acutelty ill people will be running round treating themselves |
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"right i think ive got to the bottom of it. They will ve writing down their care and treatment in "advance choice documents" which speaks for itself and wont be much different to what weve got now. No acutelty ill people will be running round treating themselves"
That’s a relief |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People suffering from mental illness are more likely to be victims than commit crimes. They are also more likely to hurt themselves than others.
This isn't necessarily true ... Google mental health in prisons
Yes it is for a wider scope of the public than just in prisons.
I prefer the word of a clinical psychologist to Googling. But a very quick Google will find an article in the British Medical Journal which supports my point.
'Those with mental illness make up a small proportion of violent offenders. A recent meta-analysis by Large et al found that in order to prevent one stranger homicide, 35 000 patients with schizophrenia judged to be at high risk of violence would need to be detained. This clearly contradicts the general belief that patients with severe mental illness are a threat.'
Any form of sociopathy including the most severe the psychopath (the most violent of offenders) are forms of mental illness ... "
No one is arguing about what is or isn’t a mental illness.
There is no evidence to support the assertion that the majority of violent crimes are committed by those with a mental illness. |
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"right i think ive got to the bottom of it. They will ve writing down their care and treatment in "advance choice documents" which speaks for itself and wont be much different to what weve got now. No acutelty ill people will be running round treating themselves
That’s a relief "
i could be wrong  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People suffering from mental illness are more likely to be victims than commit crimes. They are also more likely to hurt themselves than others.
"
100% correct, anyone who uses the I was mentally disturbed line of defence in response to a criminal activity needs to be shown the true harm these illnesses do to show that it is so very unlikely that they are telling the truth |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm struggling to understand why asking the people who use services what works best for them is 'crazy OP.
Also a police cell is a harmful and stressful environment for anyone, let alone someone with a mental illness.
There are lots of solutions for community based care and crisis intervention which are much better for the user AND for the emergency services. The police should not be used to prop up mental health services.
The reality is MH is still severely underfunded, and despite more money going in, it will always be playing catch up.
If someone is a risk to themselves or others then they don't need a police cell, they need empathy, understanding and a hospital bed.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As a sufferer there, is no,real.right wrong answer, talking to. The right person at the right time,always differs ex army surrounded by "mates" who.i trusted with my life, I couldn't talk to a civvy for ages now. I can't talk to men, it a horrible. Position for Anyone to be in and,I wish anyone, struggling to Get some help X. |
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"I'm struggling to understand why asking the people who use services what works best for them is 'crazy OP.
Also a police cell is a harmful and stressful environment for anyone, let alone someone with a mental illness.
There are lots of solutions for community based care and crisis intervention which are much better for the user AND for the emergency services. The police should not be used to prop up mental health services.
The reality is MH is still severely underfunded, and despite more money going in, it will always be playing catch up.
If someone is a risk to themselves or others then they don't need a police cell, they need empathy, understanding and a hospital bed.
"
The reference to asking the patient what is best for them is with relation to the medication , and what type of treatment they should receive . This explains itself although Diamond Smiles has researched a little deeper and it seems like it’s not going to change too much .
A police cell is better than nothing when you’re a danger to yourself or others , and as you rightly say , the Mental Health services haven’t the resources , nor are they likely to have , so taking something away without having a better alternative is not the answer .
I have explained I have ‘inside information’ on how it works ( or doesn’t ) , and I truly believe we need to have more money available to help ALL our services before dropping ( reforming ) any if them .
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ok , I know this will piss many of you off , but here goes anyway .
When someone has severe mental health problems like schizophrenia or a bipolar manic episode , they aren’t necessarily in a position to be rational . So the proposed changes including not using the police , and allowing patients to say what they want seems a bit crazy to me .
"
When someone has a severe or chronic mental health diagnosis they may when acutely unwell lose rationality, which is why we have a procedure to determine mental capacity for the times that this is necessary, when someone is potentially a risk to themselves or others. The reform proposal is not removing this.
The reform is instead looking to deliver on evidenced best practice to ensure more choice and control for an individual in their own care through not delivering a care programme to someone but with someone - which is actually far more likely to increase engagement, go to reducing fear of receiving medical intervention and actually protect people far better. It’s more about where the system doesn’t currently allow people to be their own experts by experience of articulating what works well for their own recovery and crisis plans and ensuring best practice is understood and followed. It is not about asking someone at the point of being floridly unwell and without capacity to be solely responsible for their care. The thing about mental health conditions is they can fluctuate and people are not without capacity all the time (there will always be some exceptions).
Allowing someone to document what they would like is not always carte blanche to getting it either. But it is surely right, respectful and far less Nanny state to ask in the first place and document individual wishes (and again, hasn’t always been the way mental health care has been delivered).
It is not about not working with the police, it is about recognition that the police have different expertise and finding the best way to support and detain someone whilst unwell so as to not further traumatise them, but also to keep them and others safe (if necessary).
"
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them . And try talking reason to a bipolar person going through a manic phase .
So what’s going to be protecting the innocent public when a person suffering an episode does something to harm them ? And what’s going to stop a person suffering a mental breakdown from hurting themselves ? No police and patients deciding what’s best for them ? I don’t think so .
"
The media portrayals of those with severe mental health conditions such as schizophrenia as mad, bad and dangerous is something most of the public have moved on from believing given the evidence. Yes, there are some awful cases to the contrary but you’ll find those in the population without a mental health condition and the population with. Let’s be proportionate and not peddle fear. What’s going to protect? The same statutory bodies as now, but with greater expertise and understanding of when someone is clearly unwell and what to do about it.
"
And the lack of funding the nhs gets means that the health authorities are hardly in a position to deal with emergencies in a safe and effective way . More madness or about time it was changed ?
Over to you guys ...."
Funding is an issue. Continued stigmatising of mental health is another.
The proposals are good. How they are implemented with inadequate resource or understanding is the greater concern. |
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"Ok , I know this will piss many of you off , but here goes anyway .
When someone has severe mental health problems like schizophrenia or a bipolar manic episode , they aren’t necessarily in a position to be rational . So the proposed changes including not using the police , and allowing patients to say what they want seems a bit crazy to me .
When someone has a severe or chronic mental health diagnosis they may when acutely unwell lose rationality, which is why we have a procedure to determine mental capacity for the times that this is necessary, when someone is potentially a risk to themselves or others. The reform proposal is not removing this.
The reform is instead looking to deliver on evidenced best practice to ensure more choice and control for an individual in their own care through not delivering a care programme to someone but with someone - which is actually far more likely to increase engagement, go to reducing fear of receiving medical intervention and actually protect people far better. It’s more about where the system doesn’t currently allow people to be their own experts by experience of articulating what works well for their own recovery and crisis plans and ensuring best practice is understood and followed. It is not about asking someone at the point of being floridly unwell and without capacity to be solely responsible for their care. The thing about mental health conditions is they can fluctuate and people are not without capacity all the time (there will always be some exceptions).
Allowing someone to document what they would like is not always carte blanche to getting it either. But it is surely right, respectful and far less Nanny state to ask in the first place and document individual wishes (and again, hasn’t always been the way mental health care has been delivered).
It is not about not working with the police, it is about recognition that the police have different expertise and finding the best way to support and detain someone whilst unwell so as to not further traumatise them, but also to keep them and others safe (if necessary).
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them . And try talking reason to a bipolar person going through a manic phase .
So what’s going to be protecting the innocent public when a person suffering an episode does something to harm them ? And what’s going to stop a person suffering a mental breakdown from hurting themselves ? No police and patients deciding what’s best for them ? I don’t think so .
The media portrayals of those with severe mental health conditions such as schizophrenia as mad, bad and dangerous is something most of the public have moved on from believing given the evidence. Yes, there are some awful cases to the contrary but you’ll find those in the population without a mental health condition and the population with. Let’s be proportionate and not peddle fear. What’s going to protect? The same statutory bodies as now, but with greater expertise and understanding of when someone is clearly unwell and what to do about it.
And the lack of funding the nhs gets means that the health authorities are hardly in a position to deal with emergencies in a safe and effective way . More madness or about time it was changed ?
Over to you guys ....
Funding is an issue. Continued stigmatising of mental health is another.
The proposals are good. How they are implemented with inadequate resource or understanding is the greater concern."
im really glad you posted estella i knew you would clear the matter up |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ok , I know this will piss many of you off , but here goes anyway .
When someone has severe mental health problems like schizophrenia or a bipolar manic episode , they aren’t necessarily in a position to be rational . So the proposed changes including not using the police , and allowing patients to say what they want seems a bit crazy to me .
When someone has a severe or chronic mental health diagnosis they may when acutely unwell lose rationality, which is why we have a procedure to determine mental capacity for the times that this is necessary, when someone is potentially a risk to themselves or others. The reform proposal is not removing this.
The reform is instead looking to deliver on evidenced best practice to ensure more choice and control for an individual in their own care through not delivering a care programme to someone but with someone - which is actually far more likely to increase engagement, go to reducing fear of receiving medical intervention and actually protect people far better. It’s more about where the system doesn’t currently allow people to be their own experts by experience of articulating what works well for their own recovery and crisis plans and ensuring best practice is understood and followed. It is not about asking someone at the point of being floridly unwell and without capacity to be solely responsible for their care. The thing about mental health conditions is they can fluctuate and people are not without capacity all the time (there will always be some exceptions).
Allowing someone to document what they would like is not always carte blanche to getting it either. But it is surely right, respectful and far less Nanny state to ask in the first place and document individual wishes (and again, hasn’t always been the way mental health care has been delivered).
It is not about not working with the police, it is about recognition that the police have different expertise and finding the best way to support and detain someone whilst unwell so as to not further traumatise them, but also to keep them and others safe (if necessary).
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them . And try talking reason to a bipolar person going through a manic phase .
So what’s going to be protecting the innocent public when a person suffering an episode does something to harm them ? And what’s going to stop a person suffering a mental breakdown from hurting themselves ? No police and patients deciding what’s best for them ? I don’t think so .
The media portrayals of those with severe mental health conditions such as schizophrenia as mad, bad and dangerous is something most of the public have moved on from believing given the evidence. Yes, there are some awful cases to the contrary but you’ll find those in the population without a mental health condition and the population with. Let’s be proportionate and not peddle fear. What’s going to protect? The same statutory bodies as now, but with greater expertise and understanding of when someone is clearly unwell and what to do about it.
And the lack of funding the nhs gets means that the health authorities are hardly in a position to deal with emergencies in a safe and effective way . More madness or about time it was changed ?
Over to you guys ....
Funding is an issue. Continued stigmatising of mental health is another.
The proposals are good. How they are implemented with inadequate resource or understanding is the greater concern.im really glad you posted estella i knew you would clear the matter up"
Also, welcome back diamondsmiles - missed you x |
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"Ok , I know this will piss many of you off , but here goes anyway .
When someone has severe mental health problems like schizophrenia or a bipolar manic episode , they aren’t necessarily in a position to be rational . So the proposed changes including not using the police , and allowing patients to say what they want seems a bit crazy to me .
When someone has a severe or chronic mental health diagnosis they may when acutely unwell lose rationality, which is why we have a procedure to determine mental capacity for the times that this is necessary, when someone is potentially a risk to themselves or others. The reform proposal is not removing this.
The reform is instead looking to deliver on evidenced best practice to ensure more choice and control for an individual in their own care through not delivering a care programme to someone but with someone - which is actually far more likely to increase engagement, go to reducing fear of receiving medical intervention and actually protect people far better. It’s more about where the system doesn’t currently allow people to be their own experts by experience of articulating what works well for their own recovery and crisis plans and ensuring best practice is understood and followed. It is not about asking someone at the point of being floridly unwell and without capacity to be solely responsible for their care. The thing about mental health conditions is they can fluctuate and people are not without capacity all the time (there will always be some exceptions).
Allowing someone to document what they would like is not always carte blanche to getting it either. But it is surely right, respectful and far less Nanny state to ask in the first place and document individual wishes (and again, hasn’t always been the way mental health care has been delivered).
It is not about not working with the police, it is about recognition that the police have different expertise and finding the best way to support and detain someone whilst unwell so as to not further traumatise them, but also to keep them and others safe (if necessary).
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them . And try talking reason to a bipolar person going through a manic phase .
So what’s going to be protecting the innocent public when a person suffering an episode does something to harm them ? And what’s going to stop a person suffering a mental breakdown from hurting themselves ? No police and patients deciding what’s best for them ? I don’t think so .
The media portrayals of those with severe mental health conditions such as schizophrenia as mad, bad and dangerous is something most of the public have moved on from believing given the evidence. Yes, there are some awful cases to the contrary but you’ll find those in the population without a mental health condition and the population with. Let’s be proportionate and not peddle fear. What’s going to protect? The same statutory bodies as now, but with greater expertise and understanding of when someone is clearly unwell and what to do about it.
And the lack of funding the nhs gets means that the health authorities are hardly in a position to deal with emergencies in a safe and effective way . More madness or about time it was changed ?
Over to you guys ....
Funding is an issue. Continued stigmatising of mental health is another.
The proposals are good. How they are implemented with inadequate resource or understanding is the greater concern."
Thank you for making these points so well .
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"(@glos my flu is clearing and my ability to state my points other than “ugh I disagree” is back  )"
I’m seriously in awe of your reply on this thread . I thought someone else was using your account with the “ ugh I disagree “ responses over the past few days ! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"(@glos my flu is clearing and my ability to state my points other than “ugh I disagree” is back )oh estella you might want to look at my thread in site feedback and thanks for the welcome back"
I’ve posted on it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"(@glos my flu is clearing and my ability to state my points other than “ugh I disagree” is back )
I’m seriously in awe of your reply on this thread . I thought someone else was using your account with the “ ugh I disagree “ responses over the past few days ! "
Bloody hell, why am I never allowed an off day round here?! Flu addled petulance, although it’s the shorthand for what I felt. Just wasn’t arsed but having to explain, sometimes I just want to shout “you’re all a bunch of douchesausages” but I always get pulled on it when I do!
Anyway, I’m feeling better and back to work tomorrow.
Did you read the reform on the GOV website, it’s only 307 pages. First 15 give a good context, and accessible read. |
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"I have close friends who work in the psychiatric departments locally . And as another poster pointed out , they clock in and clock off leaving a skeleton staff overnight and outside office hours ,
Often a senior staff official has to man the department as no one else is available and he or she will have already worked a full shift .
There are not the resources to just drop the police without offering an alternative . And as another poster said , who has been through all this , having a family member present will help stop certain treatments which may not be the best . I fail to see how a patient alone can decide what treatment and medicine is best for them .
A patient simply can't. Been there and come out the other side. But I didn't think like myself for a very long time.
Did they inject or give you tabs that made you loopy ???
Please explain?
As in medication where you’ve no idea what’s happening and just left feeling crazy ???
Please stop using such disrespectful words like -loopy and crazy. Please educate yourself before contributing further. "
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"(@glos my flu is clearing and my ability to state my points other than “ugh I disagree” is back )
I’m seriously in awe of your reply on this thread . I thought someone else was using your account with the “ ugh I disagree “ responses over the past few days !
Bloody hell, why am I never allowed an off day round here?! Flu addled petulance, although it’s the shorthand for what I felt. Just wasn’t arsed but having to explain, sometimes I just want to shout “you’re all a bunch of douchesausages” but I always get pulled on it when I do!
Anyway, I’m feeling better and back to work tomorrow.
Did you read the reform on the GOV website, it’s only 307 pages. First 15 give a good context, and accessible read. "
I will look at the first 15 , but not 307 pages !!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ok , I know this will piss many of you off , but here goes anyway .
When someone has severe mental health problems like schizophrenia or a bipolar manic episode , they aren’t necessarily in a position to be rational . So the proposed changes including not using the police , and allowing patients to say what they want seems a bit crazy to me .
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them . And try talking reason to a bipolar person going through a manic phase .
So what’s going to be protecting the innocent public when a person suffering an episode does something to harm them ? And what’s going to stop a person suffering a mental breakdown from hurting themselves ? No police and patients deciding what’s best for them ? I don’t think so .
And the lack of funding the nhs gets means that the health authorities are hardly in a position to deal with emergencies in a safe and effective way . More madness or about time it was changed ?
Over to you guys ...."
I have a neurological condition.
Sometimes I can break the law or become violently agressive (but not to the point of physical contact)....I just go to a room and manifest anger in anouther way.
Weather your bipolar or autistic (hulk smash mealtdown)...you are still aware of basic morrals.
You can act impulsively and irrationally (and the police are very good with dealing with it).
I've done impulsive things that got me in troubble legally. But this doesn't include things like murder, theft or fraud etc...
Schizophrenic people (in some rare cases)...like ed geine...They have murdered and killed and been sent to an assylum instead of hospital.
But bipolar and autistic mealtdown isn't a get out of jail free card for serious offences because people still have enough control over themselves not to be murderers etc...
The absence of mind of a bipolar/autistic doesn't necesaraly make them dangerous.
Personality disorders are much worse. (They don't get charged with insanity)...They go to normal prison.
Only cases of "criminal insanity" that gets treated medicly for serious crimes seem to be schizophrenia type dellusional illnesses.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If anyone isnt aware there is a text number for people who dont want to or unable to chat where you text a national crisis team and they text you back for as long as you need"
I know you can't post the number but can you post the name of the service so that people can Google it? |
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"Ok , I know this will piss many of you off , but here goes anyway .
When someone has severe mental health problems like schizophrenia or a bipolar manic episode , they aren’t necessarily in a position to be rational . So the proposed changes including not using the police , and allowing patients to say what they want seems a bit crazy to me .
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them . And try talking reason to a bipolar person going through a manic phase .
So what’s going to be protecting the innocent public when a person suffering an episode does something to harm them ? And what’s going to stop a person suffering a mental breakdown from hurting themselves ? No police and patients deciding what’s best for them ? I don’t think so .
And the lack of funding the nhs gets means that the health authorities are hardly in a position to deal with emergencies in a safe and effective way . More madness or about time it was changed ?
Over to you guys ....
I have a neurological condition.
Sometimes I can break the law or become violently agressive (but not to the point of physical contact)....I just go to a room and manifest anger in anouther way.
Weather your bipolar or autistic (hulk smash mealtdown)...you are still aware of basic morrals.
You can act impulsively and irrationally (and the police are very good with dealing with it).
I've done impulsive things that got me in troubble legally. But this doesn't include things like murder, theft or fraud etc...
Schizophrenic people (in some rare cases)...like ed geine...They have murdered and killed and been sent to an assylum instead of hospital.
But bipolar and autistic mealtdown isn't a get out of jail free card for serious offences because people still have enough control over themselves not to be murderers etc...
The absence of mind of a bipolar/autistic doesn't necesaraly make them dangerous.
Personality disorders are much worse. (They don't get charged with insanity)...They go to normal prison.
Only cases of "criminal insanity" that gets treated medicly for serious crimes seem to be schizophrenia type dellusional illnesses.
"
Thank you for being so open with your personal experiences and observations |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The fact is autistic (and bipolar)
Are more likely to be the VICTIMS of neurologicly typical people.
Mentally ill people are drawn to certain crimes. (batman villans have clear diagnosis)
But because someone is mentally ill with a "mood disorder" makes them no more likely to be criminals/dangerous than anyone else.
If my anger mealtdown gets to a certain point I won't harm someone physicly because I'm aware of it. I go to a peacefull place...the problem is when people get in my way...
I've only been in 1 fight (outside sport) and I was being bullied alot before I did anything. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don't mind talking about autism.
I would prefer not being autistic but it has advantages so it's not the end of the world. Its a gift and a curse. I feel its mainly a curse but some people wouldn't want to change it.
My crimes are cannabis, driving and public disorder type things (mostly when in bars/trains). I don't hit people unless I am being threatened physicly...and I'm crap at fighting....
Bipolar people have mood changes (differently than mine)...but they still know basic morality. A bipolar person who murders can't plead insanity.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I’m loathe to make generalisations about how any condition manifests, and there is a difference when throwing autism and bipolar one conditions around as grouped - psychotic delusions in extreme mania of bipolar would mean someone can lose sense of right and wrong, contrary to what poster above states.
Also, personality disorder diagnosis doesn’t not automatically mean someone is not treated as unwell, there are forensic personality disorder services (forensic refers to a criminality aspect and involvement with justice system) and thus this again is contrary to the above poster’s surmising. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't mind talking about autism.
I would prefer not being autistic but it has advantages so it's not the end of the world. Its a gift and a curse. I feel its mainly a curse but some people wouldn't want to change it.
My crimes are cannabis, driving and public disorder type things (mostly when in bars/trains). I don't hit people unless I am being threatened physicly...and I'm crap at fighting....
Bipolar people have mood changes (differently than mine)...but they still know basic morality. A bipolar person who murders can't plead insanity.
"
I’m afraid you’re actually wildly inaccurate in your post. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I’m loathe to make generalisations about how any condition manifests, and there is a difference when throwing autism and bipolar one conditions around as grouped - psychotic delusions in extreme mania of bipolar would mean someone can lose sense of right and wrong, contrary to what poster above states.
Also, personality disorder diagnosis doesn’t not automatically mean someone is not treated as unwell, there are forensic personality disorder services (forensic refers to a criminality aspect and involvement with justice system) and thus this again is contrary to the above poster’s surmising. "
Erroneous double negative in first sentence second paragraph. Sorry. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Things are actually changing now with the NHS.
More resources are going to mental health.
I was diagnosed 2 years ago. I went all the way through school and employment without anybody knowing I had a condition (apart from myself and other smart people).
There wasn't alot of treatment but now the nhs made big steps/investment to change things in mental health.
I had to learn how to treat myself.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I’m loathe to make generalisations about how any condition manifests, and there is a difference when throwing autism and bipolar one conditions around as grouped - psychotic delusions in extreme mania of bipolar would mean someone can lose sense of right and wrong, contrary to what poster above states.
Also, personality disorder diagnosis doesn’t not automatically mean someone is not treated as unwell, there are forensic personality disorder services (forensic refers to a criminality aspect and involvement with justice system) and thus this again is contrary to the above poster’s surmising. "
Well I'm not arguing.
Can you provide examples of bipolar mania in legal cases?
Do neurotypical/autistic people experience mania under extreme circumstance? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I’m re-reading your posts, Nelo and wondering if I’m reading your intent incorrectly.
I think you’re meaning (on re-read) that it’s not automatic with diagnosis of say bipolar that someone is unable to distinguish right from wrong in general. I read it that you were implying that someone with bipolar couldn’t ever be in that situation, which they obviously could if having a delusional psychotic break. But I agree that the majority of the time that person would be fully cognisant of right, wrong and consequences.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’m re-reading your posts, Nelo and wondering if I’m reading your intent incorrectly.
I think you’re meaning (on re-read) that it’s not automatic with diagnosis of say bipolar that someone is unable to distinguish right from wrong in general. I read it that you were implying that someone with bipolar couldn’t ever be in that situation, which they obviously could if having a delusional psychotic break. But I agree that the majority of the time that person would be fully cognisant of right, wrong and consequences.
"
Bipolar people do some bizzare things.
They can blow all their money on payday.
They can be high achievers on 4 hours sleep.
Some of them suposedly have a big inteligence/creativity Buzz from mania. They might function at higher capacity. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’m loathe to make generalisations about how any condition manifests, and there is a difference when throwing autism and bipolar one conditions around as grouped - psychotic delusions in extreme mania of bipolar would mean someone can lose sense of right and wrong, contrary to what poster above states.
Also, personality disorder diagnosis doesn’t not automatically mean someone is not treated as unwell, there are forensic personality disorder services (forensic refers to a criminality aspect and involvement with justice system) and thus this again is contrary to the above poster’s surmising.
Well I'm not arguing.
Can you provide examples of bipolar mania in legal cases?
"
Any forensic mental health team can show you numerous cases of service users law-breaking whilst unwell on a psychotic manic episode. The service is specifically for those with mental health conditions where there have been justice involvement. I couldn’t name you cases that I’m aware of as it would be a breach in data protection. I’ll try and see if I can find any more celebrity type cases.
"
Do neurotypical/autistic people experience mania under extreme circumstance?"
Can I check how you are defining mania first, I’m specifically referencing an episode of psychosis and delusions in a manic episode... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't mind talking about autism.
I would prefer not being autistic but it has advantages so it's not the end of the world. Its a gift and a curse. I feel its mainly a curse but some people wouldn't want to change it.
My crimes are cannabis, driving and public disorder type things (mostly when in bars/trains). I don't hit people unless I am being threatened physicly...and I'm crap at fighting....
Bipolar people have mood changes (differently than mine)...but they still know basic morality. A bipolar person who murders can't plead insanity.
I’m afraid you’re actually wildly inaccurate in your post. "
I agree with this being wildly inaccurate. My son is autistic. They call it the autistic spectrum for a reason. There are huge differences between people diagnosed with autism. So to sweep everyone into one bracket is impossible.
I was wrongly diagnosed with bi polar for over 8 years. I know have the correct diagnoses of a personality disorder. Someone very very wrongly on this thread claimed that personality disorders are more dangerous ??
I beg to differ. Once again sweeping generalizations bring stigma.
Ita stigma that people are trying to move away from .
The stigma that all people suffering with mental health are dangerous or cant be trusted. The stigma that all people with autism lash out and are violent.
The world is a diverse place. Not just involving mental health. But with physical health also.
Stop the stigma |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I’ve always had an issue with the use of the word stigma. Any other subject and we’d call it discrimination but we seem to accept this slightly softer terminology when it comes to misrepresentation of mental health conditions.
Let’s stop the discrimination.
(That’s my semantics rant  ) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't mind talking about autism.
I would prefer not being autistic but it has advantages so it's not the end of the world. Its a gift and a curse. I feel its mainly a curse but some people wouldn't want to change it.
My crimes are cannabis, driving and public disorder type things (mostly when in bars/trains). I don't hit people unless I am being threatened physicly...and I'm crap at fighting....
Bipolar people have mood changes (differently than mine)...but they still know basic morality. A bipolar person who murders can't plead insanity.
I’m afraid you’re actually wildly inaccurate in your post.
I agree with this being wildly inaccurate. My son is autistic. They call it the autistic spectrum for a reason. There are huge differences between people diagnosed with autism. So to sweep everyone into one bracket is impossible.
I was wrongly diagnosed with bi polar for over 8 years. I know have the correct diagnoses of a personality disorder. Someone very very wrongly on this thread claimed that personality disorders are more dangerous ??
I beg to differ. Once again sweeping generalizations bring stigma.
Ita stigma that people are trying to move away from .
The stigma that all people suffering with mental health are dangerous or cant be trusted. The stigma that all people with autism lash out and are violent.
The world is a diverse place. Not just involving mental health. But with physical health also.
Stop the stigma "
Something I missed is , you cant group or pair together autism with bi polar. They are not the same. They do not work the same. They are completely different things
Like pairing an apple with a car. They don't go together |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’ve always had an issue with the use of the word stigma. Any other subject and we’d call it discrimination but we seem to accept this slightly softer terminology when it comes to misrepresentation of mental health conditions.
Let’s stop the discrimination.
(That’s my semantics rant )"
I like this xx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them . "
Or maybe loo at how many violent crimes are committed by people without mental health issues. Or how many people with mental health issues don't commit violent crimes
Lazy, uninformed generalisations like that disgust me. They just stigmatise people with mental health issues for no good reason |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't mind talking about autism.
I would prefer not being autistic but it has advantages so it's not the end of the world. Its a gift and a curse. I feel its mainly a curse but some people wouldn't want to change it.
My crimes are cannabis, driving and public disorder type things (mostly when in bars/trains). I don't hit people unless I am being threatened physicly...and I'm crap at fighting....
Bipolar people have mood changes (differently than mine)...but they still know basic morality. A bipolar person who murders can't plead insanity.
I’m afraid you’re actually wildly inaccurate in your post.
I agree with this being wildly inaccurate. My son is autistic. They call it the autistic spectrum for a reason. There are huge differences between people diagnosed with autism. So to sweep everyone into one bracket is impossible.
I was wrongly diagnosed with bi polar for over 8 years. I know have the correct diagnoses of a personality disorder. Someone very very wrongly on this thread claimed that personality disorders are more dangerous ??
I beg to differ. Once again sweeping generalizations bring stigma.
Ita stigma that people are trying to move away from .
The stigma that all people suffering with mental health are dangerous or cant be trusted. The stigma that all people with autism lash out and are violent.
The world is a diverse place. Not just involving mental health. But with physical health also.
Stop the stigma "
I don't want to be compaired to your son.
Everyone gets diagnosed as ASD...there isn't a result of someone being 30% asd and 70% asd.
Narcasists and sociopaths are dangerous. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Honestly..
If I spot a narcasist or sociopath I just ditch them...
If I talk about meantal health (but aren't qualified)
Then the real problem isn't me...it's the NHS
Sorry for being my own doctor but I can't wait 18 month for a lowly caseworker...
After talking to the gp for nearly 30 years and really pushing a diagnosis it took them 18 month when I feel i already read more to help myself than they ever told me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Stigma of autistics being violent"
Well...
Normally that's when people/parents push boundries reguarding personal space and someone in "mealtdown".
So yah...autistics can be violent if you push them while In "mealtdown".
Depends if you have self control or not.
Normally decent smart people would leave me to escape a room...
They wouldn't trap me and start reacting angrily to me...
Some autistics are likely to hit as a last resort I guess.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
There’s a small insert within the review proposal, approx 6 pages starting page 177, that looks at learning disability and autism in relation to the Mental Health Act. There’s not really any specific changes proposed currently - albeit the overall changes will benefit all. It acknowledges the call for not including autism and LD under MHA but also the reasons for retaining, and ultimately suggests a wider review of this is needed. The Scottish review on this specific area is happening currently, well done Scotland |
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"
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them .
Or maybe loo at how many violent crimes are committed by people without mental health issues. Or how many people with mental health issues don't commit violent crimes
Lazy, uninformed generalisations like that disgust me. They just stigmatise people with mental health issues for no good reason"
There was nothing lazy or uninformed about my post , nor did it generalise .
Other well informed posters have made excellent points without resorting to taking one sentence from my post and having a dig as you have .
 |
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By *ANDA2Couple
over a year ago
Henley Arden |
"
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them .
Or maybe loo at how many violent crimes are committed by people without mental health issues. Or how many people with mental health issues don't commit violent crimes
Lazy, uninformed generalisations like that disgust me. They just stigmatise people with mental health issues for no good reason
There was nothing lazy or uninformed about my post , nor did it generalise .
Other well informed posters have made excellent points without resorting to taking one sentence from my post and having a dig as you have .
"
This was your paragraph OP
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them . And try talking reason to a bipolar person going through a manic phase .
I’m not sure what your trying to say with the paragraph but by saying ‘violent crimes and Mentsl illness ‘ does seem to be generalising and implying a link. It does to my reading come across as a bit of stigma.
You could have left the paragraph out and your OP would still have made sense.
Of course non of us are perfect wordsmen/women and your statement may not have been meant as it reads.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them .
Or maybe loo at how many violent crimes are committed by people without mental health issues. Or how many people with mental health issues don't commit violent crimes
Lazy, uninformed generalisations like that disgust me. They just stigmatise people with mental health issues for no good reason
There was nothing lazy or uninformed about my post , nor did it generalise .
Other well informed posters have made excellent points without resorting to taking one sentence from my post and having a dig as you have .
"
Don't worry about it. If I say "I am autistic" I get the autistic single mother's club telling me their child has it worse and I need to start smacking my head off the wall to get recognition.
Honestly people are hypersensitive and offended over trivial things. They do it to me also.
One lady on anouther websight asked me:
"My nephew has autism what was it like for you as a child"
I told her I was a nerd with narrow intrests who liked video games and organizing your into formations (football/racing/war formations)
She (basicly) said: "your not autistic YOU DISGUSTING PERSON your lying for attention...MY NEPHEW (basicly licks windows)...and you don't lick enough windows"
So she compaired me to a severely disabled person and dismissed I had anything wrong with me.
People with disabilities have to be in competition to prove themself disabled enough for things that are entitled to.
It's better that you openly discuss what's on your mind rather than burying it secretly because someone on the internet might get "offended".
For saying something with the slightest misunderstanding they might treat you asif you just tipped a disabled kid out of his weelchair. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them .
Or maybe loo at how many violent crimes are committed by people without mental health issues. Or how many people with mental health issues don't commit violent crimes
Lazy, uninformed generalisations like that disgust me. They just stigmatise people with mental health issues for no good reason
There was nothing lazy or uninformed about my post , nor did it generalise .
Other well informed posters have made excellent points without resorting to taking one sentence from my post and having a dig as you have .
This was your paragraph OP
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them . And try talking reason to a bipolar person going through a manic phase .
I’m not sure what your trying to say with the paragraph but by saying ‘violent crimes and Mentsl illness ‘ does seem to be generalising and implying a link. It does to my reading come across as a bit of stigma.
You could have left the paragraph out and your OP would still have made sense.
Of course non of us are perfect wordsmen/women and your statement may not have been meant as it reads.
"
Neurologicly typical people follow set patterns of crimes.
Totally ignorant to what thet do.
Totally unaware of their true nature.
Crimes of empathy and passion.
Neurologicly typical people have "swarm mentality" they copycat eachother. In crowds that can't control themselves.
Like "the peado hunters" on YouTube getting the wrong person. Eg in early 2000s a swarm of them attacked a pedeatricians home (because of his job only)
They are "empopathic"...logic and reason are dismissed for more animalistic decisions.
The iq of a neurologicly typical person is around 100.
This makes them suseptable to comitting teenager style crimes.
For someone with an iq of 137 I don't think "neurologicly typical" people are in any position to boast.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them .
Or maybe loo at how many violent crimes are committed by people without mental health issues. Or how many people with mental health issues don't commit violent crimes
Lazy, uninformed generalisations like that disgust me. They just stigmatise people with mental health issues for no good reason
There was nothing lazy or uninformed about my post , nor did it generalise .
Other well informed posters have made excellent points without resorting to taking one sentence from my post and having a dig as you have .
This was your paragraph OP
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them . And try talking reason to a bipolar person going through a manic phase .
I’m not sure what your trying to say with the paragraph but by saying ‘violent crimes and Mentsl illness ‘ does seem to be generalising and implying a link. It does to my reading come across as a bit of stigma.
You could have left the paragraph out and your OP would still have made sense.
Of course non of us are perfect wordsmen/women and your statement may not have been meant as it reads.
Neurologicly typical people follow set patterns of crimes.
Totally ignorant to what thet do.
Totally unaware of their true nature.
Crimes of empathy and passion.
Neurologicly typical people have "swarm mentality" they copycat eachother. In crowds that can't control themselves.
Like "the peado hunters" on YouTube getting the wrong person. Eg in early 2000s a swarm of them attacked a pedeatricians home (because of his job only)
They are "empopathic"...logic and reason are dismissed for more animalistic decisions.
The iq of a neurologicly typical person is around 100.
This makes them suseptable to comitting teenager style crimes.
For someone with an iq of 137 I don't think "neurologicly typical" people are in any position to boast.
"
For someone that quite rightly says it’s inappropriate for someone to “top trump” illnesses and how they manifest for one person in comparison to another (your comment re a mother of an autistic son belittling your own experience of autism), you undermine this by making equally rude commentary in a generalised fashion about anyone who is neurotypical.
I understand the point you’re making, but surely making a divisive (and not always accurate) opinion that can further aggravate rather than promote positive awareness is rather counterintuitive?
You could flip it into being an informative point about neuroatypical people often historically being assumed to always be of lesser IQ, but actually there’s a full spread and some co fictions can be associated with overlaps of higher IQ - rather than pulling down neurotypical as being lower, which in fact is inaccurate - there’s spread of IQ in both cohorts.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
nhs and lack of funding .
i think a very high percentage is wastage and bad management of the funding .
off the top of my head, mayor of london , 2.5 million quid on water fountains 
How much is a head ct scan , full blood count , kidney liver and hear tests ??lets say 3 grand if you went privately .
Whilst im very grateful my mother had all these tests done for a head cold or sinus virus which went in 2 days once given anti biotics.
Free School runs ? if you dont know what they are i know a company that supplies councils with them . he has a bentley a porsche and just bought a 5million pound 77 acre estate.
not cos hes an entrapaneur, because the council are using a company that charges Harrrods prices for there school run taxis instead of lidl asda or tesco priced taxis .
lastly , i was at my mums everyday last week , enfield , 30 million pound cycle lane , as trueas i sit here , early morning rush hour , throughout the day going hospital doctors chemist , rush hour driving myself home , guess what , we didnt see a single cyclist using it   |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
on the other foot , (im a chauffeur), another client of mine who has a care business just ended a contract with a client worth 24k a year . 3 hours a day 7 days a week care . he ended the contract with the client as can you believe he couldnt find a reliable carer after one year of battling trying to supply the care to the client. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"on the other foot , (im a chauffeur), another client of mine who has a care business just ended a contract with a client worth 24k a year . 3 hours a day 7 days a week care . he ended the contract with the client as can you believe he couldnt find a reliable carer after one year of battling trying to supply the care to the client."
What do you think of the mental health review proposals though? |
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"Go and check it out guys
No
Why don’t you point us in the right direction? stay ignorant then  "
we dont have to stay ignorant weve got estella to ask if we want to know anything. and to be honest your post had nothing to do with what the thread was about |
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By *ensualbicockMan
over a year ago
liverpool wavertree picton clock |
"Go and check it out guys
No
Why don’t you point us in the right direction? stay ignorant then we dont have to stay ignorant weve got estella to ask if we want to know anything. and to be honest your post had nothing to do with what the thread was about"
ok thanks for that |
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By *ANDA2Couple
over a year ago
Henley Arden |
"Go and check it out guys
No
Why don’t you point us in the right direction? stay ignorant then "
No. It’s not about being ignorant.
It’s about you making a claim and then you being asked to back up your claim. You saying ‘look it up’ is not backing up your claim.
From other interests I’m very dubious of people who make a statement without being prepared to provide proof or at the very least provide a pointer to their source of information. From experience it’s 99.9% of the time meant the claim is without merit. |
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By *ensualbicockMan
over a year ago
liverpool wavertree picton clock |
"Go and check it out guys
No
Why don’t you point us in the right direction? stay ignorant then
No. It’s not about being ignorant.
It’s about you making a claim and then you being asked to back up your claim. You saying ‘look it up’ is not backing up your claim.
From other interests I’m very dubious of people who make a statement without being prepared to provide proof or at the very least provide a pointer to their source of information. From experience it’s 99.9% of the time meant the claim is without merit. "
I'm not articulate enough to explain on here and I can't share links or I would . But I'm not talking shite I can assure you . It's just best you look it up that's all , easier for everyone x |
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By *ANDA2Couple
over a year ago
Henley Arden |
"Go and check it out guys
No
Why don’t you point us in the right direction? stay ignorant then
No. It’s not about being ignorant.
It’s about you making a claim and then you being asked to back up your claim. You saying ‘look it up’ is not backing up your claim.
From other interests I’m very dubious of people who make a statement without being prepared to provide proof or at the very least provide a pointer to their source of information. From experience it’s 99.9% of the time meant the claim is without merit.
I'm not articulate enough to explain on here and I can't share links or I would . But I'm not talking shite I can assure you . It's just best you look it up that's all , easier for everyone x"
No, sorry that does not cut it.
I’m aware Fab doesn’t allow links and you don’t have to be articulate to write the name of a study or quote a source.
Your making a powerful statement without being willing to at least provide some or any idea of evidence.
|
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By *ensualbicockMan
over a year ago
liverpool wavertree picton clock |
"Go and check it out guys
No
Why don’t you point us in the right direction? stay ignorant then
No. It’s not about being ignorant.
It’s about you making a claim and then you being asked to back up your claim. You saying ‘look it up’ is not backing up your claim.
From other interests I’m very dubious of people who make a statement without being prepared to provide proof or at the very least provide a pointer to their source of information. From experience it’s 99.9% of the time meant the claim is without merit.
I'm not articulate enough to explain on here and I can't share links or I would . But I'm not talking shite I can assure you . It's just best you look it up that's all , easier for everyone x
No, sorry that does not cut it.
I’m aware Fab doesn’t allow links and you don’t have to be articulate to write the name of a study or quote a source.
Your making a powerful statement without being willing to at least provide some or any idea of evidence.
"
Well I don't cut it then .....cya |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't mind talking about autism.
I would prefer not being autistic but it has advantages so it's not the end of the world. Its a gift and a curse. I feel its mainly a curse but some people wouldn't want to change it.
My crimes are cannabis, driving and public disorder type things (mostly when in bars/trains). I don't hit people unless I am being threatened physicly...and I'm crap at fighting....
Bipolar people have mood changes (differently than mine)...but they still know basic morality. A bipolar person who murders can't plead insanity.
I’m afraid you’re actually wildly inaccurate in your post.
I agree with this being wildly inaccurate. My son is autistic. They call it the autistic spectrum for a reason. There are huge differences between people diagnosed with autism. So to sweep everyone into one bracket is impossible.
I was wrongly diagnosed with bi polar for over 8 years. I know have the correct diagnoses of a personality disorder. Someone very very wrongly on this thread claimed that personality disorders are more dangerous ??
I beg to differ. Once again sweeping generalizations bring stigma.
Ita stigma that people are trying to move away from .
The stigma that all people suffering with mental health are dangerous or cant be trusted. The stigma that all people with autism lash out and are violent.
The world is a diverse place. Not just involving mental health. But with physical health also.
Stop the stigma
I don't want to be compaired to your son.
Everyone gets diagnosed as ASD...there isn't a result of someone being 30% asd and 70% asd.
Narcasists and sociopaths are dangerous."
My whole point was NOT comparing you ti my son. My while point was that is os called spectrum for a reason. So many different types . So mu point was do not sweep all autistic people into one generalisation. I DONT compare you to my son. Nor do I compare my son to any other person on the spectrum. Ita very clear what I have written.
Talking about autism you then make a statement
"Narcissists and and sociopaths are dangerous"
Then leave that comment there with no explanation of your point. Is this a comment regarding mental health that just happened to be at the bottom of your comments ? |
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"
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them .
Or maybe loo at how many violent crimes are committed by people without mental health issues. Or how many people with mental health issues don't commit violent crimes
Lazy, uninformed generalisations like that disgust me. They just stigmatise people with mental health issues for no good reason
There was nothing lazy or uninformed about my post , nor did it generalise .
Other well informed posters have made excellent points without resorting to taking one sentence from my post and having a dig as you have .
This was your paragraph OP
Look how many violent crimes have mental illness as a reason behind them . And try talking reason to a bipolar person going through a manic phase .
I’m not sure what your trying to say with the paragraph but by saying ‘violent crimes and Mentsl illness ‘ does seem to be generalising and implying a link. It does to my reading come across as a bit of stigma.
You could have left the paragraph out and your OP would still have made sense.
Of course non of us are perfect wordsmen/women and your statement may not have been meant as it reads.
"
I used that paragraph to emphasise the point I was making . It wasn’t meant to stigmatise those who suffer with mental illness .
Of course I wasn’t going to ask people to look at how many people suffering with mental illness don’t commit violent crime , it would be ridiculous to even suggest that , but hey ho , there we are .
Just as ridiculous is the suggestion that I should look at the crimes that are committed by those people who don’t suffer with mental illness . Why would I do that when I’m starting a thread about the possibility of cutting one of the services that helps those suffering with mental illness ?
It was a condescending response to my op , which I responded to . And again , I have no reason to stigmatise anyone . |
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It's right that people who are suffering from mental health issues have their express needs and preferences taken into account as a priority - it happened far less so in the past. The diagnosis that someone has will always be taken into consideration, such that people who are subject to needing protection will have their own, as well as others' protection held into account. If someone is sectioned and they expressed a need/preference to be released immediately, then it's not just going to happen, due to their desires. Ultimately professional judgements will prevail but they understand that they are holding responsibility for unique individuals, rather than just a case. |
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