FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Bi vs Straight single male
Bi vs Straight single male
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"I've explained on another thread why we state we're straight on our profile, its simnply because we've encountered hostility when we've put our true sexuality on the profile. (For the record; I'm fully bisexual and Siren is sort of Semi-Bi in so much as she's quite happy for girls to play with her but won't go down on a girl herself). When we are with straight couples then we are both as straight as they are. I'm quite a butch sort of guy anyway and I'm not into effiminate men, kinda HairBears is my thing lol. If some people are put off by that then there isn't much we can do about it but we still choose not to advertise our bisexuality on our profile. There is another reason why we don't state it on there and that's because an offline friend of mine found our profile and mentioned it in my local pub. He only quietly mentioned it to me that he'd found it and I had to ask him to keep it to himself as some of my circle of friends are homophobic and simply wouldn't understand. I know some people would argue that homophobic friends aren't real friends at all but that's not strictly true. They don't choose to be homophobic, they are simply made that way, the same as gay people are made the way they are and I am made the way I am, I accept their phobias and as such I choose not to rock anyone's boat and I will remain silent about my sexuality, which in the big scheme of things is nobody's business but my own anyway." I feel for you mate, i really do. I will never hide my sexuality. No matter whether i get prejudice or not. My husband is slowly starting to do the same, though, unlike me, he does have to be discreet at times. I don't agree at all that homophobes are born just as gay/bi people are. Any bigotry is as a result of outside srouces, such as their upbringing, friendship associations, peer pressures from society at large, and mostly by the media. Homophobia is the same as racism, as sexism and any other ignorance of a minority. So excusing this phobia as something someone is 'born' with, that only further allows them to continue doing so. I believe in bisexual (or indeed LGBT) rights. This is a sexuality which is, largely, invisible to the world. Many of us bi's are in heterosexual relationship, and as such, the world views us as straight. It can be hard to break out of the closet, especially when happily hidden in the safety of hetero relationships, and declare that we are bi and proud. But if we don't, then we remain invisible and society simply ignores us. This is why i do not hide who i am, who my husband is. We ARE bi and proud. I am currently applying to work as a volunteer for our local LGBT support switchboard in the hopes that i can help others to feel just as proud. i look for progress. Maybe it is at that point, that bi men can happily list on their profiles (here and anywhere else) that they are bi. Not hide. Not feel pushed away. | |||
"I know quite a few guys who have straight on their profile yet are bi or curious. Mainly because they are prejudiced against by many of these so called sexually liberated swingers. Im mean its ok for us girls to be openly bi or bi curious as the guys gets thier rocks off on it but a guy...well thats another story all together." Exactly! At what point did people decide that bi men are just 'gay men in denial'?! I hear that a lot. Also, you get the nasty and abhorrent comments that they spread STI's. Disgusting prejudice. Guys with guys should be just as acceptable as girls with girls. | |||
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"Starra, if you know this is the case, then surely when you a looking through e-mails and see a guys profile says 'straight' surely you should bear in mind that they could be bi. I know this will be more of a hassle for you, but may help you find more of what you want. " the thing is that it's hard to know who is genuinely bi and doesn't *want* to put it on their profile, and who is just spinning a line. Bear in mind, when pushed, i've had messages ranging from the guys who are clearly just lying about being bi so they can hop into bed with a couple, and those who freely admit that they don't fancy men but would do something in the context of a mmf. Neither of these types are people we want to meet. So really, there is no way to differentiate between genuine bi and faking it as bi, unless we question the person a lot. And, to be fair, we can't do that with everyone, it takes too damn long! We have now made it a rule, if it doesn't say bi on your profile, then we don't reply. It may mean we miss out on certain connections, but truthfully, we just aren't interested in people who can't be honest, whatever their reasons. | |||
 which are normally open to Bifems, bicpls, bimales, transvestites, transexuals, transgender pre and post op people | |||
"You could always go to one of the many BI NIGHTS held at swing clubs which are normally open to Bifems, bicpls, bimales, transvestites, transexuals, transgender pre and post op people "they have bi nights at swing clubs? Didn't know that. Swing clubs usually wouldn't be our thing, but anything with the prefix of bisexual on it would be our thing, hehe. | |||
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"What’s with all this homophobia nonsense, its purely a preference to some, after all we’re talking about sex here and everyone has a right to choose who they have sex with, we will talk to or socialise with anyone regardless of there sexuality, that doesn’t mean we’ll sleep with them, homophobia is way more than not wishing to sleep with someone, we certainly don’t fear or dislike bisexual or gay people. We have plenty of friends who are bisexual and gay, we just might not want to sleep with them, we’ll happily meet bi couples as stated in our profile, but don’t wish to meet bi singles, does this make us semi-homophobic? If it does then we must also be racist and ageist as well since we don’t look for black men and have our age limits. There may be some people out there that are truly homophobic, we’re not denying that, and anyone who is offended by someone’s sexuality or becomes abusive because of it should be reported, however we see it as a preference to most, nothing more and nothing less. We respect everyone’s choices and certainly don’t mind bisexual people who only want to meet other bi-sexual people, so why should they then be offended by other peoples choices. " I don't think i, or anyone else, was linking homophobia with ALL swingers. Actually i was just bemused as to whether it was true that many swingers won't entertain the bi male, that's all. | |||
"What’s with all this homophobia nonsense, its purely a preference to some, after all we’re talking about sex here and everyone has a right to choose who they have sex with, we will talk to or socialise with anyone regardless of there sexuality, that doesn’t mean we’ll sleep with them, homophobia is way more than not wishing to sleep with someone, we certainly don’t fear or dislike bisexual or gay people. We have plenty of friends who are bisexual and gay, we just might not want to sleep with them, we’ll happily meet bi couples as stated in our profile, but don’t wish to meet bi singles, does this make us semi-homophobic? If it does then we must also be racist and ageist as well since we don’t look for black men and have our age limits. There may be some people out there that are truly homophobic, we’re not denying that, and anyone who is offended by someone’s sexuality or becomes abusive because of it should be reported, however we see it as a preference to most, nothing more and nothing less. We respect everyone’s choices and certainly don’t mind bisexual people who only want to meet other bi-sexual people, so why should they then be offended by other peoples choices. I don't think i, or anyone else, was linking homophobia with ALL swingers. Actually i was just bemused as to whether it was true that many swingers won't entertain the bi male, that's all." Sorry we weren't suggesting you or anyone who has posted on here was, but it is all to common that people are branded homophobic for not wishing to sleep with certain individuals, even if these people are friends. As for the why, we can only see it as a preference, the same as some bi-sexual couples dont want to meet straight couples, or bi-fem couples who only meet bi-fems or couples with bi-fems. The good part is that there is something for everyone out there... | |||
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"Can I add a single male's point of view? I have 'straight' on my profile because as far as other single Bi-males are concerned I am and I have no wish to mislead anyone. I also do not want to receive hopeful emails from Bi or Gay men. 1 on 1 with another guy just doesn't float my particular boat. However I am, what a lovely cpl from another site called, 'situationally Bi'. Let me explain. When with a Cpl I am happy (indeed enjoy) pleasuring the male partner if it turns the female partner on or she is just curious to feel a reaction. In other words I only take part in Bi-male activity with Cpls primarily for the benefit of the female. Of course I make sure the male enjoys the experience as well. Does this make sense to anyone here? " To be honest, what you mention seems to be our problem with many of the bi males into swinging. They aren't *really* bi at all. They will engage in sexual activity with a male when a female is involved, mostly to highten the fun for the female. Neither myself or my husband want a man to do things with him for that reason. I'll be honest, the whole concept you (and many other men) speak of, baffles me. It really isn't fair on the bi male of a couple, to have another man touch him when he isn't really attracted to him, as such. I have heard of the term "situationally bi". It's sad that there is even a term for it. I can't quite decide if men coined the term because they couldn't quite accept that they like other men, or if there are just that many men out there who are willing to do things with other guys just for the sake of women. Either way, situationally bi people can be argued to make a mockery of bisexuality. Yes i did say that! We find it hard, as a minority, to get taken seriously as a valid sexuality anyway...without others making it worse by perpetuating the myth that all bi's are just greedy promiscuous people who cannot commit to anything. I am definately thinking, now, that swinging sites are not going to yield much in the way of bisexuals for us to meet. Not genuine people who are proud of their sexuality, and accept that being bisexual is not about who you sleep with, but who you are attracted to. I think, maybe, far too many people see the word 'sexual' in bisexual and think of it as about sex. It isn't. Bisexuality, as an identity is about being attracted to BOTH genders. And as such, those men who go with guys only for the sexual experience of swinging, well they cannot be seen as bi at all. I must now apologise for my strong views on this subject. I do value bi rights highly, and have fought them for years now. | |||
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Me? I'm as Bi as Bi can be and proud of it! X | |||
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"well I think the reply two up from here fails to give people like me any credibility at all. Who says I don't enjoy pleasuring a man? Who says I ONLY do it for the female and leave the male feeling 'let down' in some way? Whatever. People who cry 'intolerance' loudest seem to be the ones who then show total intolernace for other's preferances. Are all the Forum Threads like this cos if so I'll stick to chat. Just tried to expand the discussion." Oh yes, i knew you wouldn't 'take' what i said all that well. Of course not. It wasn't really meant to be taken well, since i feel that men like you make it more difficult for genuine bi men to be accepted in society. In response to your defence. Who says you don't enjoy pleasuring the male? Hmm, well YOU did actually. Take this quote: "In other words I only take part in Bi-male activity with Cpls primarily for the benefit of the female." For the benefit of the female, you said. I know you said primarily, but the sentiment is right there in that sentence. you go with the guy to please the woman, or maybe for him....but not really for yourself. This is the situationally bi you speak of. this is not bi at all, and actually it's a teeny bit creepy, i feel. I can't imagine there would be many people out there who would want any person to touch them if they didn't really find them attractive. I also find it hilarious when people use the "well YOU'RE intolerant" offensive. Why? Because once a person's only means of recourse is to throw something mirrored back at the person doing the accusing, they have lost the battle, because they clearly have no argument at all. | |||
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"I've put on my profile that I'm bi. I love pussy and will only enter into relationships with women but I have played with guys and will do so again. I do find that couples tend to ignore me for this reason though because they seem to think that I would interfere with the male (which I wouldnt if we all know what the boundaries are) and some single women seem to think that it means I don't appreciate pussy as much as a 'straight' man, which again is so very wrong in my case. It sucks" you might find its your negative profile that puts people off, we dodge any with a wide berth who moan about timewasters all over their profiles, theres people out there that only meet bi males so i doubt its that. | |||
"Hi I'm a single bi guy and get message after message from Straight guys asking to meet I always ask why if they are straight they want to meet a bi guy??? Couples can advertise them selves as a bi-couple but only the girl is bi to me that is not a bi-couple. I think it may help if the search on here was better allowing you to search for couples that are both bi and couples with just fem bi or just males bi it may help out a lot. Great post by the way Starra Thanks" No thank YOU. I totally agree that it would be good if there was able to be a search button for bisexuals. | |||
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"The problem with that Starra is you would need an option in search for "bi pretending to be straight" for it to be of any use." Hehehe, good point. Ahh, but we don't want bi pretending to be straight so it would work for fine for us. :P | |||
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" No thank YOU. " It was not an offer LOL | |||
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"Great post with some interesting comments, some sad and some funny. We have been on a few swinging sites and the issue of male bisexuality has always generated plenty of debate. On Fab we have come across our fair share of people responding to our profile, all variations of straight/bi/curious. The most common types have been from couples/men where the men have been listed as straight. These can then be split into a further 2 groups: 1) Reluctance to state they are bisexual in case they put of straight partners 2) Men whose ulterior motive is to have a MMF where they just want to focus on the woman With the latter, single men, you can normally them out after some questions, with the former, couples, we have taken discussions further to try and understand more about their motivations. What saddens us is the lengths some people will go to in order to hide their true feelings. They state they are straight even though they have had plenty of bi experiences, they refuse to accept invites from others who are listed as bi, they also hide validations from bi couples, yet they are actively seeking bi meets! We are now seeing more of this type of behaviour from single men. Initially we identified with some of the sentiments made in this thread, about how difficult it must be for men and couples, how they must struggle with their sexuality and ultimately the prejudice they must face. However, having come across so many people who are listed as straight but want some bi interaction, there appears to be a consistent theme – dishonesty. Be upfront, be truthful, do not mislead, be proud of who you are and who you are looking for. By lying on your profile, you are simply fanning the flames of prejudice and bigotry, you are condoning, encouraging and perpetuating their opinions, attitudes and behaviour. Most people state in their profiles that they would like to make friends – a friendship shouldn’t start on a lie. If people cannot accept your sexuality, or trust you when you say you will not cross any boundaries, then pass them by. P.S. “Situationally bi”? For God’s sake! What a ridiculous term, sums up the disingenuous approach some people have. " What an incredibly well written and insightful post. Thank you so much for your input. The dishonesty point is one which i feel most strongly about. Since we are looking for friends with benefits, we would never want to make friends with people who are lying, or have lied at some point, to us. We certainly don't want to enter into a sexual friendship with someone who lies either! | |||
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"What an incredibly well written and insightful post. Thank you so much for your input. The dishonesty point is one which i feel most strongly about. Since we are looking for friends with benefits, we would never want to make friends with people who are lying, or have lied at some point, to us. We certainly don't want to enter into a sexual friendship with someone who lies either!" Thanks Starra, glad to know that there are some people who share the same values as us. Thanks for starting such a great topic and thanks to all who have participated so far - that sounds so cheesy! Hope there are more guys like you out there x | |||
"Labels, Definitions....they all cause so much confusion. What do you difine as bisexual? Why can you not just be sexual, and enjoy every thing and allow others to enjoy evrything (within their own comfort zones) too. There is nothing wrong with the term situationally bi, this person is being honest in saying that they enjoy sexual situations that involve more that one sex, however would not seek out a same sex encounter, I can understand that. Personally on the Kinsey scale, I'd say I was a 2, how ever in the right environment I could go as high as a 6 :D, but hows counting eh??? " You're spelling is every bit as good as mine peaches! Lol! You make a brilliant point about defining sexuality and totally agree with you. Why can't someone just be sexual, why do we have to be put into a pigeon hole (pretty cramped for one thing!). For some people its important, for others, like us, its not. There is someone on here for everyone, its just finding them thats a real bitch sometimes! | |||
"sorry about copying your last post starr, didn't mean to. I'm a bit of numpty when it comes to technology! I had written a long reply but the gist of it was that you seem really frustrated and I genuinely hope you manage to find the sort of folk you are after. There are a lot of people on here and I've encountered a fair bit of hostility in the three weeks I've been on here when replying to bi profiles (someone even called me a bullshitter, I mean come on, how old are we all on here!) The point is that I don't feel I'm lying as I have to choose one thing or the other when joining up. If I enjoy playing with guys now and again, some people will say I'm bi-sexual but thats their need to put me into a catagory, not mine. The thing with this site being so big is that you will get all sorts on here, biggots, liars, the whole works. I always find it amusing that for a sexually adventurous swingers site, how much animosity there is out there. The problem from your point of view is trying to find someone honest who fits your ideal match and I genuinely hope you find them." Questions for you: if you feel that there isn't a category which applies to you in the sexuality section, yet that straight is good enough for you, and you state "I enjoy playing with guys now and again" why not put that quote somewhere in your profile? | |||
"sorry about copying your last post starr, didn't mean to. I'm a bit of numpty when it comes to technology! I had written a long reply but the gist of it was that you seem really frustrated and I genuinely hope you manage to find the sort of folk you are after. There are a lot of people on here and I've encountered a fair bit of hostility in the three weeks I've been on here when replying to bi profiles (someone even called me a bullshitter, I mean come on, how old are we all on here!) The point is that I don't feel I'm lying as I have to choose one thing or the other when joining up. If I enjoy playing with guys now and again, some people will say I'm bi-sexual but thats their need to put me into a catagory, not mine. The thing with this site being so big is that you will get all sorts on here, biggots, liars, the whole works. I always find it amusing that for a sexually adventurous swingers site, how much animosity there is out there. The problem from your point of view is trying to find someone honest who fits your ideal match and I genuinely hope you find them. Questions for you: if you feel that there isn't a category which applies to you in the sexuality section, yet that straight is good enough for you, and you state "I enjoy playing with guys now and again" why not put that quote somewhere in your profile?" Thats a very good point, well made sir! I think I'll take your advice and do just that. I guess I was trying so hard to make a good impression, I overlooked that. Cheers Fab! | |||
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"Sadly, i still think that we shall keep to our own personal rule of only considering those who put bisexual as their identity. This is mostly because of the "situationally bi" i.e. fake bi guys out there, and the ones whom will fake completely. They have, indeed, ruined it for any bi guy who does not feel comfortable in putting bi on their profile." Thats absolutely your perogative and as I said, I genuinely do hoe you find the sorts of folk you are looking for. If you think that guys like me waste your time then I do apologise but like I said everyone has their reasons for what they do. I took fabs advice from earlier and have put some more info on my profile so as not to cause any displeasure or annoyance. | |||
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"Yeah I think I'll stick to the Chatrooms. I did think I had made a thoughtful contribution but apparently not. I was told by fellow chat users it would be 'flame the newbie' if I did venture in here and sadly its proved right so I'll pass on being flamed again thanks. Does anyone new survive in here?" I've read back up the thread to when you posted and the subsequent answers that followed you. You seemed indignant at what was said to you then and are throwing your toys out of the pram again now. From what I've read nobody has been having a pop at you at all, you've simply taken what was said personally. Coming back on here and flouncing back to the chat room will win you no sympathy at all. If your intention is to stay in chat then why come in here and say so. Who benefits by that? The chat users? Us? You? We don't like to drive anyone from the forums and the more that use these pages the better it is for all of us as we get a much more diverse set of opinions on all matters of topics - all of them valid, I might add. You have as much right to post your views in here as anyone else does to comment on them, it makes neither party right or wrong though. On some subjects people will disagree with you but on others those same people will vigorously defend the same viewpoint as yours. Yet we don't fall out over it. Stick around and you'll see what I mean in time. | |||
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"Yeah I think I'll stick to the Chatrooms. I did think I had made a thoughtful contribution but apparently not. I was told by fellow chat users it would be 'flame the newbie' if I did venture in here and sadly its proved right so I'll pass on being flamed again thanks. Does anyone new survive in here?" We were all new once, i didn't see where you got flamed...what did i miss?? | |||
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Fun of being bi is you get to play with both partners | |||
"It would indeed be a very sad existence if we all just slinked off quietly when the going got too tough. Not everyone has the stomach to fight a good fight wherever its needs fighting and not everyone possesses the verbal skills to make an convincing argument, and then back it up with facts and research. I've long held the belief that a society as diverse as humankind needs its 'fors' and 'agins' - we need opposing groups to keep things in check. If there were no animal rights activists to 'police' the scientists then the scientists would conduct far less humane experiments than they currently perform. The opposition provided by anti-vivs etc is an absolute neccessity; like it is an absolute neccessity for certain individuals, who are intellectually equipped or just plain ballsy enough, to stand up for the rights of gay/bi people, in particular those who cannot stand up for themselves." True, very true indeed. I know i must seem as if i have appointed myself the "grand high mistress of all things bisexual" but the truth is that if someone doesn't stand up and argue against prejudices then they simply continue without opposition. Where would gay people, women, black people and others be if no-one had stood up to fight?! What i have found fascinating is the extreme double standards within the community. I can't quite see how it's ok for a female to be bi, and say so on her profile, but a male cannot do the same...not without being avoided. It isn't shocking, not to me. Some of my bi male friends have experienced strong prejudice against them, yet i receive barely any, as a bi female. I shall continue to fight their cause, if only to ruffle some feathers which had never been ruffled before. | |||
"I'm Bi, but happy to be straight or as bi as required. I don't meet men on their own, maybe that would make me gay
Fun of being bi is you get to play with both partners"I don't know if you were being tongue in cheek there, or what. I will use what you said though to argue that point. If a bi man meets a woman alone, does that make him straight? Nope. So if a bi man meets a male alone, this does not make him gay either. Bi is bi, whether we are with males or females, or both. By this notion, my husband is gay because he's had a boyfriend! In that case, i'm a lesbian because i've had several girlfriends, and indeed been in love with a few women too!!! | |||
"... your either straight or gay or somewhere in-between and we’re pretty sure bi-sexual and bi-curious cover these? It seems that the people who don’t like labels have no problems using the straight label. " There is also bi social, she/he is so dam hot you can't help but touch them or a little play, suck stroke... Might never happen again, but
Guess bottom line is how rocks your boat. Me I love being able to play with a man and a woman at the same time. | |||
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" I don't know if you were being tongue in cheek there, or what. I will use what you said though to argue that point. If a bi man meets a woman alone, does that make him straight? Nope. So if a bi man meets a male alone, this does not make him gay either. Bi is bi, whether we are with males or females, or both. By this notion, my husband is gay because he's had a boyfriend! In that case, i'm a lesbian because i've had several girlfriends, and indeed been in love with a few women too!!!" Oh now i'm confused, lol. I love women, but enjoy a man sometimes. I can't really see me with just a man, maybe if she was watching but no join in, that would be fun, especially if she was directing, lol Bloody lables...Will have to get a cup of tea and have a little rethink... | |||
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"... In other words I only take part in Bi-male activity with Cpls primarily for the benefit of the female. Of course I make sure the male enjoys the experience as well. ...Does this make sense to anyone here? Chris " I understand where your coming from and your Bi social (Your happy to be bi if required, but not as a first choice);-) | |||
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"surely honesty is the best policy on this issue...i,m a bi guy and its on my profile so there,s no confusion or unexpected surprises...lol..." For us.. absolutely. Well said.. After that experience were just more cautious.. As stated.. absolutely nothing against anyone in anyway... Honesty is always best ... | |||
" Consider for one moment your swinging preferences - Openly bisexuals only: This preference alone immediately and significantly reduces any possible friends with benefits that you hope to meet. Add to this your age range, mental compatibility, joint attractiveness and others locations. " I do just want to acknowledge what you say here. We make a point of stating on our profile that we are looking for people to explore our sexuality with. I know that if we were both straight, we would be monogamous. It is because we are bi that we chose to consider any kind of outside relationships, sexual or emotional. This much becomes difficult for many swingers to understand. However, the bisexual community totally 'get' where we're coming from. So, we purposefully CHOOSE to significantly reduce any possible friends with benefits. Simply put, what would be the point of us meeting with anyone who is straight, when we both want to be with the same gender in a group situation? This doesn't mean we aren't happy with opposite gender fun, but we know that our play, for us, would be mostly focused upon the same gender. Take, for example, the straight males who message us. If we met with one such man, he would enter our bed and engage in activity with me, the female. Since my husband wants to further explore his sexuality, inviting this straight man in our bed would, in essence, be completely pointless. The same can be said for a single straight female and myself. What would i do? And with a couple where either (or both) was straight, same thing. I don't think it is exclusion, what we choose to stipulate, because we simply want friends with benefits with people who want both of us. I know that my husband would expect any man who joined us to *want* him as much as they *want* me, thus us choosing not to go with people who are 'situationally bi', or any other such off shoot bi identity. I don't view the 'role play as bi' in a sexual group context as sexually liberating. In fact i see it as a step backwards, because 1/ it suggests that such a person is incapable of committing to a sexual identity and excuses their fun with same sex as 'fun' and 2/ it continues to perpetrate the myth that bisexuals are confused individuals who cannot simply "pick a side". | |||
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"You have found it very easy to dismiss role play based upon your view that it perpetuates the myths others have towards bisexuality: You stated 1/ it suggests that such a person is incapable of committing to a sexual identity and excuses their activities with same sex as 'fun'. To this we would say why should anyone have to commit to anything? why is this an issue ? 2/ it continues to perpetrate the myth that bisexuals are confused individuals who cannot simply "pick a side". To this we would say - who cares ? Why does it matter that some people would hold this irrelevant and insignificant view? Mrs Sin is bisexual and is not concerned in any way, shape or form about what others may assume. " I actually used these two points as an example of how it affects the bisexual community as a WHOLE. So my first point was in saying that society VIEWS the bisexual as incapable of commmitting to a sexual identity, as such those people who refute themselves as bi, only serve to perpetuate this notion. In excusing their sexual activity as just 'fun', it continues to link the bisexual with sex and not actual attraction to both genders. The second point is self-explanatory. Bisexuals are seen, mostly, as people who cannot pick which side they are on. It's fantastic that you don't care. Bully for you. But what about those who DO care?! What about those who wish to push the envelope, have bisexuality seen as valid, change opinions? Shouldn't THEY have a right to not have others say they don't care so it's ok for people to think and say such things?! See, your post, it sounds quite selfish. Given the "well WE don't care" motif anyway. Perhaps some of us, myself included, do care how it affects other people. Some of whom lack the confidence to stand up against abhorrent and ignorant views. Some of whom remain hidden in the closet forever because they are afraid to peak out and risk judgement and worse. Bi men, just as gay men, are often the victims of violence...purely because of such views in society. A long long time ago, i witnessed a gay couple get beaten up because they dared to hold hands near a homophobic group of lads. This needs to be eradicated. And so yes, some people DO care. | |||
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"I honestly don't think that anyone can be placed into a label. I personally find that i don't fit into neat little boxes, so why should i expect others to either? On the flip side of this argument though, some of the labels are much needed, at least for a point of reference when viewing profiles and/or talking to people with the possibility of meeting. Without some frame of reference, we are simply people wandering about in a sea of others with no label. It becomes a chore, then, to find those who truly want what we do. I do believe that the Kinsey scale helps somewhat. If people utilised this scale as a frame of reference to their same sex desires on their profile, it would help. But i don't think that will happen. The question has been answered, and then some! I never once expected the original topic to become such a debate into bisexuality, but as per usual, i managed to create drama. :P It has also opened up a whole new can of worms. I realise now why we have felt like we didn't quite 'fit' here. I don't think it would be enough for us to leave, but it does compound my view that we aren't swingers. I did tell at the beginning of the thread that the issue was huge lol I really hope that you find what you,re looking for,even the most heterosexual couples looking for the same have to sift through many many messages and meet a fair few people before they find a perfect match..if they're lucky lol xx " | |||
"I have so many responses to make here, and for some reason the quote button isn't working currently, so apologies if i just refer to anyone as 2the person who said..." First off, to the couple who mentioned breback sex and linked this to bisexuals. This is abhorrent. I don't feel you are abhorrent for saying it, because - let's face it - it's the general concensus view of bi and gay men - but the notion is indeed abhorrent. Who says that bi and gay men engage in bareback?! In my experiences of talking to all differing kinds of people, plus seeing the bareback thing on profiles, it's mostly single STRAIGHT men who want bareback. Don't you think bi men want to be careful about sex? Out of all people, these men can be the most at risk of STI's, purely because of the nature of the kinds of sex they might have. I talk to a lot of bi men, and so far only ONE has said he would go bareback. The assumption made was just that, an assumption. One which is linked to the phobic view society has of the bi male. It has no merit at all and is mostly perpetrated by the media, and/or the urban myth. Someone else mentioned how bi men can lie about their sexuality and then make forceful advances towards the male of a couple. I don't think this is any more or less likely than a female doing the same. Actually, what this suggests is that a bi male is incapable of putting a lid on his attractions to men, that somehow he will fancy every man and feel the need to follow that urge. Not true. Bisexuals don't fancy everyone you know. To the gentleman whom is so adamant that he is being flamed or attacked because he is new, not so. First of all, i am pretty new to the forums and indeed to fab. I did not see you as a newbie, i saw you as a person who used the situationally bi term. I simply argued against that term. I always will. It is a crock. A person cannot simply switch off attraction based on sex alone. By this notion, it suggests that men have the capacity to fuck anyone, whatever gender, if they were aroused enough. I ask, how is it possible for a male to 'get it up' for another male, and engage in said sexual activity if he wasn't ATTRACTED to that man in the first place?! Situationally bi, as a term, takes a genuine sexuality and reduces it to sex. Once that begins to take effect in society, the view will be that bisexuality is something which is about sex, not love, or emotions, or attractions. Just people who want to have sex. This is only ever going to be detrimental to the bisexual cause. This thread has been enlightening. I suppose i had thought - before i actually joined sites for swingers - that a group of people who are constantly judged for their lifestyle, would be welcoming to bisexuals. After all, we are kindred spirits. People who are judged for who we are, our choices in life etc etc. Sadly, this thread shows that there is a lot of prejudice in the swinging community. I, myself, would be welcomed. One thing i notice when browsing profiles is that the bi female is a regular occurrence. But the bi male? Shunned, for the main. For why? Assumptions which are wrong, fear, ignorance, pure and simple phobia. It is no small wonder that so many men do not put 'bisexual' on their profile. This, well, it makes it difficult for us. We only look for bisexuals and ones whom are comfortable to say it out and proud, at least on their profile. Maybe we should look elsewhere. Or maybe not. truth is that if we slink off, we leave the community to continue in this prejudice. And that is something i wouldn't want to do. I would prefer to stay and fight against these prejudices, maybe educate some people, change their views. It's worth a try!" What we said in the post you refer to was in fact "you only have to look at how many GUYS,single or not,have safe sex on their profiles but request bareback".No mention there of bi-guys. It was an analogy about saying what ppl wanted to hear,as long as it gave the chance of sex. However,the main reason that we've found from couples who won't meet bi-guys and is true of us too,is that they just don't trust them.As is perfectly illustrated in the post from Notts2for2. That was one guy who got caught out,how many others are doing it? There have been requests on this site from bi-guys wanting men only get togethers,so much for just bi in a swinging environment... So to us and a lot of other couples,its all down to minimising risks and meeting bi-males is a risk we're not prepared to take. That's the bottom line (no pun intended),not homophobia or any socio-sexual hangups,just plain old self preservation. Trace & Ric XXXX | |||
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"Some people wish to clarify their bisexual preferences by stating that they are bi-oral only. This negates continually having to tell would be same-sex partners that they do not receive nor give anal sex. Potential bi-playmates may also be put off if they read a profile from a bi-guy that states he prefers full on anal intercourse. How often do you read profiles from straight couples where they feel the need to state that they don't do anal? Stating one's sexuality should be enough for any potential hook up to know which way you swing, it's then down to the individuals concerned to ascertain to which degree they'll indulge in their bisexuality." I completely agree. I have never quite understood why someone, anyone, would feel the need to list that on their profile. As was said in the post above about orally bi people, shouldn't they just simply be bi? Not enjoying anal sex is nothing to do with sexuality at all, it is purely and simply a preference DURING sex, regardless of the two (or more!) genders involved in it. | |||
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"Trace and Ric, it won't let me quote you for some reason.... I could argue the semantics with you until the cows come home, but i don't think it will change anything. However, i will just say that to choose not to allow a bi male in your sex life, PURELY because of the 'risks' you feel you would take - when you are SWINGERS (don't we all take risks in having sex with multiple people?!) - that is a prejudice against bi men. You won't accept that, perhaps because so many others do the same and you have the defence of the masses, but it is indeed bi phobic towards the male. You make your choices, that is your prerogative, but accept that you have a prejudice at least." Indeed,as swingers we do take risks having sex with different people,which is why we seek to minimise them. As for prejudice,we belong to a gay club and have friends who are gay of both sexes.In fact,conversations we've had with some gay guys are what have confirmed our views.There are certain places in this area (as there will be in others,we're sure)that cater for gay dogging.Some guys at the club go dogging and tell us of the amount of sex they have,sometimes bareback,with married guys playing away.They also tell us that the married,supposedly straight guys are the horniest ones.Probably due to the illicit thrill or risk,who knows. People often say "Well what about bi women?".To us F/F sex is about the safest you can get.We know many gay/bi women,none of who hang around womens toilets cottaging.Unfortunately the same can't be said for bi/gay males. There were certain public wc's round here that have been demolished due to complaints of cottaging from the public. So its not prejudice either,as we say,we have bi/gay male friends.We just don't want to meet them in a sexual situation.No prejudice,just risk limitation,supported by facts. Trace & Ric XXXX | |||
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"Here's a hypothetical situation for you to consider: You are in a swing club and you get talking to a rather attractive couple. Now being the sort of people who won't meet biguys you ask the make half of this couple if he's bi, he says "no" so you happily go off to play with them as a foursome. 1) How do you know he's telling the truth? 2) If he doesn't tell you he is bi, and doesn't make a play for your cock, does it make a blind bit of difference?" Your quite right... and another reason we don't just boff total strangers lol... | |||
"(going to regret this...lol) starra... you used the word "phobic" in connection with bi guys am i to believe you mean homophobic because if you do can i direct you to a dictionary as the word "phobic" means to be scared of something... " Bi phobia is a legitimate and recognised definition. It has been mentioned many times in bisexual rights compaigns. Sure phobic means to be scared of something, but the term of phobic in reference to homo and bi phobia, has come to be recognised as an umbrella term for anyone who has a prejudice towards gay or bi people. | |||
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"If you played with a guy for HER benefit alone then I would say that's a pretty good way of saying, "I love ayou and am doing this for that reason alone." Is that wrong? Nope, I don't see that it is. You would be satisfying a long held fantasy of hers and I'm sure she'd love you even more for doing it, knowing that you aren't bisexual. For you, receiving oral sex from a man would be pretty much the same as if a woman did it but I can understand your dilemma when it comes to realising her ultimate fantasy of giving another guy a BJ - is that a line you would be prepared to cross for her?" I disagree with this. If you were to turn this around and have it be the woman who is straight, but her partner wishes her to 'play' with a woman for his benefit, many would consider this to be rather oppressive towards women. So why shouldn't it be the same for men? I fail to understand how a person can do something with someone of the same gender and NOT be at least moderately attracted to that person, which in essence, would suggest that they have a tendancy (albeit small) towards people of the same gender also. | |||
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"You asked valid questions, but you don’t seem to like the answers and have questioned everyone who doesn’t agree with you, this post does tell you one thing though and that’s that everyone views sexuality differently and we should all respect each others views rather than question them, the only problem we see in all of this is some peoples dishonesty to try to meet more people. Sex is like religion, you can never force your beliefs on anyone. " *sigh* And this is why i said to leave it. That is a presumption about me. But i don't wish to continue further down this road or i shall wind up saying something i regret. I leave you all to this thread by yourselves. This is not me throwing my toys out the pram either. I just tire of the whole damned subject now. | |||
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"If you played with a guy for HER benefit alone then I would say that's a pretty good way of saying, "I love ayou and am doing this for that reason alone." Is that wrong? Nope, I don't see that it is. You would be satisfying a long held fantasy of hers and I'm sure she'd love you even more for doing it, knowing that you aren't bisexual. For you, receiving oral sex from a man would be pretty much the same as if a woman did it but I can understand your dilemma when it comes to realising her ultimate fantasy of giving another guy a BJ - is that a line you would be prepared to cross for her? I disagree with this. If you were to turn this around and have it be the woman who is straight, but her partner wishes her to 'play' with a woman for his benefit, many would consider this to be rather oppressive towards women. So why shouldn't it be the same for men? I fail to understand how a person can do something with someone of the same gender and NOT be at least moderately attracted to that person, which in essence, would suggest that they have a tendancy (albeit small) towards people of the same gender also." I stated a very specific set of circumstances about a man receiving a BJ from another man because his wife desired to see it being done. It wasn't about oppressing women and I don't see why that should be brought into the discussion. As for having sex for the sake of having sex, I refer to you any one of thousands of niteclubs up and down the country every Friday & Saturday night where young men will literally fuck any female who shows them the slightest bit of interest. It does happen and to deny that it happens would be burying one's head in the sand. Some people can have sex without attraction or committment. I know it is so because I was one of those young men many moons ago. | |||
"The notion that gay and bisexual people on swinging sites are hidden quivering beneath a pile of goose bumps awaiting yet another nasty email, I struggle with. We have seen in the past friends of ours change their profile from bisexual male to straight male, and when we asked why had they done this their answer was very clear - "we have been told that being a bisexual male will affect our chances". We tried our very best to convince them that what they had done was not in their best long term interests, to no avail - still here and straight ! We were also in contact with a straight male, bi female couple. After chatting for a week we started arranging a meet. We then by chance, discovered that the male was in fact bisexual and at no stage did this couple mention his bisexuality. We simply ended our association as we don't knowingly meet liars! A conundrum: Missus Sin (who wishes that I was bisexual)has for two years been asking me to experiment with a male for her delight. I have not been able to stop her kinky requests but have managed to limit them down to me either performing or receiving oral sex with a male, she wants the former, I don't. She has even recruited other females that we have played with into backing her cause and when this subject is raised the women have all expressed sharing the same fantasy. Missus Sin knows that I'm not bisexual as I have no desire towards another male, she also knows me well enough to understand that if this desire was present I wouldn't hesitate in pursuing this! So: Would agreeing to Missus Sins (watered down) wishes cause yet another backwards step for the gay community or just be fun? " It would probably be a backward step for you personaly.The whole idea of swinging is to have mutual pleasure, without pressuring each other into things they don't wan't to do. Try finding something Mrs Sin doesn't want to do,anal for instance.Tell her it would give you great pleasure to see a guy have anal with her and that your friends have also said it would be great.See how far it goes. Trace & Ric XXXX | |||
"If you played with a guy for HER benefit alone then I would say that's a pretty good way of saying, "I love ayou and am doing this for that reason alone." Is that wrong? Nope, I don't see that it is. You would be satisfying a long held fantasy of hers and I'm sure she'd love you even more for doing it, knowing that you aren't bisexual. For you, receiving oral sex from a man would be pretty much the same as if a woman did it but I can understand your dilemma when it comes to realising her ultimate fantasy of giving another guy a BJ - is that a line you would be prepared to cross for her?" That sounds more like a bi-males fantasy of turning a straight guy than advice. Anything that your forced into doing that goes against your personal sexual inclination can be damaging both to your relationship and psychologicaly. We love each other to death,therefore we know that neither of us would expect the other to do something they didn't want to,or was against their nature,just for a brief sexual kick. Trace & Ric XXXX | |||
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"Who mentioned force here? That would imply some form of sexually abusive relationship. What I was getting at was a couple who are openly willing to test new situations/experiences without adhering to a specific label, such as bisexual/gay. Hypothetically, I was suggesting a couple where the guy considers himself to be straight but his wife would love to see him suck another guy's cock. Being sexually open-minded, would such a person try it, knowing his wife would seriously get her rocks off watching it, or would knowing his wife would love to watch it be enough to turn him on to do it. Siren loves watching me with guys and that alone turns me on even more when I'm actually doing it. Knowing that she's nearby watching, masturbating, prompts me to put on an even better performance for her. It has nothing to do with trying to turn a straight guy bi at all. That doesn't interest me in the slightest." I consider myself 100% straight, but if my partner wanted to see me goto a certain point with another guy I may very well do so, for her sake, nothing wrong with experimenting together at all, never know, either one of us or both of us may actually find we like it, of course this should only happen if everyone is in full agreement, no pressure. Just to add, me being straight and my partner really not liking the thought of guys together puts me in a good situation IMO, but still, never say never, and don't knock what you haven't tried. | |||
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"There isn't anything wrong with experimenting, as I am sure we have all done to even be on this site. But we still all have boundaries of what we want to experiment with and what we wouldn't...and to expect your other half to be cojoled into doing something they don't want to do , I would find unhealthy. I don't want to be with a woman, he doesn't want to be with a man, I would never be with a woman just because he would find it a turn on, as I wouldn't find it a turn on and vice versa. I find the idea that friends and the partner are trying to talk someone into something they don't want to do very uncomfortable." Of course to be pressured is wrong wrong wrong, but if willing to try then it's aye ok ain't it, like I said, I would try if my partner would like me to do, but that's not me being pressured as she hates the idea. As ever, it's each to their own, so long as nobody is forced or feels obligated then it's all good, even the not so good experiences. | |||
"Who mentioned force here? That would imply some form of sexually abusive relationship. What I was getting at was a couple who are openly willing to test new situations/experiences without adhering to a specific label, such as bisexual/gay. Hypothetically, I was suggesting a couple where the guy considers himself to be straight but his wife would love to see him suck another guy's cock. Being sexually open-minded, would such a person try it, knowing his wife would seriously get her rocks off watching it, or would knowing his wife would love to watch it be enough to turn him on to do it. Siren loves watching me with guys and that alone turns me on even more when I'm actually doing it. Knowing that she's nearby watching, masturbating, prompts me to put on an even better performance for her. It has nothing to do with trying to turn a straight guy bi at all. That doesn't interest me in the slightest." By using the word "force" of course we didn't mean physically.However coercion is still a subtle way of forcing someone to do something thats not in their nature.As Mr Sin said has said, Mrs Sin knows he's not bi but still wants him to commit homosexual acts for her pleasure.That smacks of emotional blackmail using the old "You know it turns me on and if you loved me you'd do it" ploy.Plus getting her girlfriends to side with her too,if thats not coercion we don't know what is.If it was a guy doing it to a woman it would be frowned upon. To our minds you have to have bi inclinations to even consider it.We'd do anything for each other but theres no physical way I could suck or be sucked by another guy,not that Trace would want me to.So as we say,you've gotta want it. Trace & Ric XXXX | |||
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