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Disgusting bonfire effegy
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Just seen a video that was filmed over the weekend of a bunch of scumbags burning a carboard model of Grenfell Tower on a bonfire and laughing and joking about it!!
It has been sent to the police but they say despite being in very poor taste it doesnt look like anything criminal has been done!!
What the actual fuck is wrong with people. Sickos |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"How do we know they weren't survivors making a political point?"
Think its pretty obvious from the video they arent, they are laughing and joking at the people who died |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"How do we know they weren't survivors making a political point?
Think its pretty obvious from the video they arent, they are laughing and joking at the people who died"
"obvious" or not, again -how do we know for sure |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"How do we know they weren't survivors making a political point?
Think its pretty obvious from the video they arent, they are laughing and joking at the people who died
"obvious" or not, again -how do we know for sure"
Well knowing someone who lost 3 members of his family in the tradegy I cant imagine him or any other surviors doing such a thing and laughing as they did to make a point!  |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"How do we know they weren't survivors making a political point?
Think its pretty obvious from the video they arent, they are laughing and joking at the people who died
"obvious" or not, again -how do we know for sure
Well knowing someone who lost 3 members of his family in the tradegy I cant imagine him or any other surviors doing such a thing and laughing as they did to make a point! "
Everyone reacts to trauma differently -some become unhinged by it -just saying like |
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If you look at the news reports about this, one of the disgusting remarks was something like 'that's what happens when you don't pay your rent'. The chances of this being anything but a sick 'joke' are absolutely minimal.
Some vile people possess no empathy at all  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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yes ive seen it.
sorry to say nothing shocks me today what people get up too.
if i employed people who appeared in a video like that i would sack them as id not want them representing my company. |
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"How do we know they weren't survivors making a political point?
Think its pretty obvious from the video they arent, they are laughing and joking at the people who died
"obvious" or not, again -how do we know for sure
Well knowing someone who lost 3 members of his family in the tradegy I cant imagine him or any other surviors doing such a thing and laughing as they did to make a point!
Everyone reacts to trauma differently -some become unhinged by it -just saying like"
There is a more than one comment on the video that is clearly poking fun and even racist comments. Don't think it's survivors somehow! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just seen a video that was filmed over the weekend of a bunch of scumbags burning a carboard model of Grenfell Tower on a bonfire and laughing and joking about it!!
It has been sent to the police but they say despite being in very poor taste it doesnt look like anything criminal has been done!!
What the actual fuck is wrong with people. Sickos"
Did you watch all the video? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Saw it on the news tonight absolutely sickened by it makes me feel ashamed to be human sometimes so very cruel laughing and joking about people who died in that fire |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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One of the reasons I am not on arsebook, it gives sick fucks a platform to annoy people who like to be shocked by sick fucks... which in turn gets them views so makes even sicker fucks. |
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By *unscot44Man
over a year ago
Stepps (Glasgow) |
Sadly I cannot say i am surprised as there is a small but very noticeable minority of people throughout not only the UK, but the world, who are just plain sick.
They live to spread hatred and fear and unfortunately some of the language used by politicians, just helps fan the flames of hatred and bigotry. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"One of the reasons I am not on arsebook, it gives sick fucks a platform to annoy people who like to be shocked by sick fucks... which in turn gets them views so makes even sicker fucks. "
 |
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By *apmanMan
over a year ago
Harpenden |
"Makes you wonder about common decency and humanity, just seems this generation lack of respect and values? "
We have always seen random acts of stupidity and disrespect. But they are far outweighed by those that are compassionate and helpful. Contrast the casual callousness of these idiots, the dishonesty of a few fraudsters, with the huge outpouring of practical help given to the Grenfell survivors. Not by government or those paid to do so, but by ordinary folk.
I think we have plenty of reasons to be optimistic. The mindless act of a few yobs is nothing in the face of the vast majority's kindness and compassion. |
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
"One of the reasons I am not on arsebook, it gives sick fucks a platform to annoy people who like to be shocked by sick fucks... which in turn gets them views so makes even sicker fucks.
"
Sounds about right to me |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Don’t know how they thought it would be funny. Clearly wanted some comedic attention however no one finds it funny and they’ve brought the wrong attention on themselves. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I dont like that the police have scratched there haid to make up an offence dueto public pressure
Yes it was wrong but what kind of country is this becoming demolition man world is coming fast
Soon salt and sugar will be illigal as there bad for ya |
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By *hill44Man
over a year ago
hinckley |
"Just seen a video that was filmed over the weekend of a bunch of scumbags burning a carboard model of Grenfell Tower on a bonfire and laughing and joking about it!!
It has been sent to the police but they say despite being in very poor taste it doesnt look like anything criminal has been done!!
What the actual fuck is wrong with people. Sickos"
Disgraceful people why do this |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The press have the names of those arrested
So expect to see them in the papers soon.
I'm sure friends, families and employers are looking forward to what's coming. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The ages range from 19 to 50 of the ones who handed themselves in, I have no real opinion on Grenfell, I won't just run along with the public outpouring of sympathy and grief but i did find the video sickening. |
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That it was in poor taste: no doubt.
I was more offended by the people who claimed compensation who didn't even live there myself.
I'm equally offended that the police were able to put out clear pictures of those responsible for this ill advised affair, yet a women was r*ped by three men and that's all the description the public was given: "three men!"
Talk about getting priorities wrong! |
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"The press have the names of those arrested
So expect to see them in the papers soon.
I'm sure friends, families and employers are looking forward to what's coming."
If they have jobs today they won't tomorrow as their "outraged and offended" employers will let them go for bringing their business into disrepute. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That it was in poor taste: no doubt.
I was more offended by the people who claimed compensation who didn't even live there myself.
I'm equally offended that the police were able to put out clear pictures of those responsible for this ill advised affair, yet a women was r*ped by three men and that's all the description the public was given: "three men!"
Talk about getting priorities wrong!"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Nor should they be charged.
What they did was undoubtedly in bad taste and stupid. No doubt that many will find it offensive but it wasn't a criminal act. Nobody was hurt. Nobody was abused. Nobody was threatened.
We must stop this insidious form of mob rule where loud groups on social media make stupid but relativly harmless incidents into 'crimes'.
Bad taste is not a crime. It doesn't become one because we've developed a national obsession with being offended. Down that path lies a place none of us really want to go.
If we want to retain the freedoms we value we need to accept that being offended occasionally is one of the prices we need to pay.
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"Nor should they be charged.
What they did was undoubtedly in bad taste and stupid. No doubt that many will find it offensive but it wasn't a criminal act. Nobody was hurt. Nobody was abused. Nobody was threatened.
We must stop this insidious form of mob rule where loud groups on social media make stupid but relativly harmless incidents into 'crimes'.
Bad taste is not a crime. It doesn't become one because we've developed a national obsession with being offended. Down that path lies a place none of us really want to go.
If we want to retain the freedoms we value we need to accept that being offended occasionally is one of the prices we need to pay.
"
It falls under 'Public Order/Deceny' crime.
According to a poster above that's the charges against them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Nor should they be charged.
What they did was undoubtedly in bad taste and stupid. No doubt that many will find it offensive but it wasn't a criminal act. Nobody was hurt. Nobody was abused. Nobody was threatened.
We must stop this insidious form of mob rule where loud groups on social media make stupid but relativly harmless incidents into 'crimes'.
Bad taste is not a crime. It doesn't become one because we've developed a national obsession with being offended. Down that path lies a place none of us really want to go.
If we want to retain the freedoms we value we need to accept that being offended occasionally is one of the prices we need to pay.
"
I hear what you say, and to some degree it makes sense.
But when bad taste is expressed so publicly, without consideration for the consequences then maybe it needs to be addressed?
Know your audience is the term I think most people understand?
No doubt those responsible arent the sharpest tools in the box! |
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"Just seen a video that was filmed over the weekend of a bunch of scumbags burning a carboard model of Grenfell Tower on a bonfire and laughing and joking about it!!
It has been sent to the police but they say despite being in very poor taste it doesnt look like anything criminal has been done!!
Eh is bonfire night not the celebration of the torture, dismemberment and murder of someone? So one is appropriate and the other isn’t? Am I correct?
What the actual fuck is wrong with people. Sickos"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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What about radical extremists burning poppies? No police action as it was “Freedom of speech”
Another perspective how can “Jokes” weather it be in good taste, ethical and good humour or not be policed? Yeah it may have been disrespectful to some but so are many other jokes!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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But does it... this was not a public place, it was a private garden with a group of friends present.
However misguided (and for the record I'm not defending their actions), what they did wasn't intended for mass public consumption. When does it become criminal... 1 share, 100, 1000, 10,000.... how many constitutes criminality and who are we to judge?
We have developed a social media driven obsession with outrage & offence. This is just the latest manifestation of the problem - we need to take a very long, hard look and ask....who's next. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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In the same light this thread is continuing- I read this morning that a 70 yr old woman ‘beeped’ her car horn at some petrol pumps, because the women in front was taking an age to leave the pumps. Apparently an Affro Caribbean woman jumped out of the car and reported the elderly lady for her ‘racist and hate’ attitude.
The police subsequently interviewed the woman under caution, and when she asked for it to be removed from the record they told her that once the caution was issued it cannot be removed. This world is going totally mad! Give it another generation and no one will speak or interact with anyone for fear of reprisals either physical or legal. |
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"In the same light this thread is continuing- I read this morning that a 70 yr old woman ‘beeped’ her car horn at some petrol pumps, because the women in front was taking an age to leave the pumps. Apparently an Affro Caribbean woman jumped out of the car and reported the elderly lady for her ‘racist and hate’ attitude.
The police subsequently interviewed the woman under caution, and when she asked for it to be removed from the record they told her that once the caution was issued it cannot be removed. This world is going totally mad! Give it another generation and no one will speak or interact with anyone for fear of reprisals either physical or legal."
An interview under caution is not the same as receiving a police caution which I think may be refused..
Where did you read this? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I seem to remember a guy being taken to court for teaching his cat to do a Hitler salute and putting it on YouTube. Stupid thing to do yes but surely that wasn’t a crime? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But does it... this was not a public place, it was a private garden with a group of friends present.
However misguided (and for the record I'm not defending their actions), what they did wasn't intended for mass public consumption. When does it become criminal... 1 share, 100, 1000, 10,000.... how many constitutes criminality and who are we to judge?
We have developed a social media driven obsession with outrage & offence. This is just the latest manifestation of the problem - we need to take a very long, hard look and ask....who's next."
Well it was intended for public consumption because someone videod it and you can clearly hear in the video the people involved are aware its being videod and have no problem with it.
And if you’re asking ‘who’s next’, whoever is the next person to go to special effort to laugh at a large group of people who gruesomely burned to death, I really won’t be worried for them.
The epidemic isn’t outrage, its people claiming that theres an outrage epidemic every time theres a legitimate reason for outrage. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Horrible horrible people but it’s not a crime.
I wish the police would put more money into something like knife crime rather then worrying about what people put on their private bonfire. |
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"Nor should they be charged.
What they did was undoubtedly in bad taste and stupid. No doubt that many will find it offensive but it wasn't a criminal act. Nobody was hurt. Nobody was abused. Nobody was threatened.
We must stop this insidious form of mob rule where loud groups on social media make stupid but relativly harmless incidents into 'crimes'.
Bad taste is not a crime. It doesn't become one because we've developed a national obsession with being offended. Down that path lies a place none of us really want to go.
If we want to retain the freedoms we value we need to accept that being offended occasionally is one of the prices we need to pay.
"
round them all up and put them in a room with all the grenfell survivors . this was not harmless fun .this was sick and thick . |
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By *KMaxMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Nor should they be charged.
What they did was undoubtedly in bad taste and stupid. No doubt that many will find it offensive but it wasn't a criminal act. Nobody was hurt. Nobody was abused. Nobody was threatened.
We must stop this insidious form of mob rule where loud groups on social media make stupid but relativly harmless incidents into 'crimes'.
Bad taste is not a crime. It doesn't become one because we've developed a national obsession with being offended. Down that path lies a place none of us really want to go.
If we want to retain the freedoms we value we need to accept that being offended occasionally is one of the prices we need to pay.
"
Well said that man. |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"Nor should they be charged.
What they did was undoubtedly in bad taste and stupid. No doubt that many will find it offensive but it wasn't a criminal act. Nobody was hurt. Nobody was abused. Nobody was threatened.
We must stop this insidious form of mob rule where loud groups on social media make stupid but relativly harmless incidents into 'crimes'.
Bad taste is not a crime. It doesn't become one because we've developed a national obsession with being offended. Down that path lies a place none of us really want to go.
If we want to retain the freedoms we value we need to accept that being offended occasionally is one of the prices we need to pay.
Well said that man."
I would second that opinion -besides we all should be a little wary of the motives for posting said video in an age of fake news -scepticism is healthy for all -baa baa black sheep that I am |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Nor should they be charged.
What they did was undoubtedly in bad taste and stupid. No doubt that many will find it offensive but it wasn't a criminal act. Nobody was hurt. Nobody was abused. Nobody was threatened.
We must stop this insidious form of mob rule where loud groups on social media make stupid but relativly harmless incidents into 'crimes'.
Bad taste is not a crime. It doesn't become one because we've developed a national obsession with being offended. Down that path lies a place none of us really want to go.
If we want to retain the freedoms we value we need to accept that being offended occasionally is one of the prices we need to pay.
"
Well said. Nothing else to say. |
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"Nor should they be charged.
What they did was undoubtedly in bad taste and stupid. No doubt that many will find it offensive but it wasn't a criminal act. Nobody was hurt. Nobody was abused. Nobody was threatened.
We must stop this insidious form of mob rule where loud groups on social media make stupid but relativly harmless incidents into 'crimes'.
Bad taste is not a crime. It doesn't become one because we've developed a national obsession with being offended. Down that path lies a place none of us really want to go.
If we want to retain the freedoms we value we need to accept that being offended occasionally is one of the prices we need to pay.
Well said that man."
Yes it isn't a crime I agree .
But I can bet your ass that some of these imbeciles will , in the future , become a part of the prison system. And don't tell me you can't tell, because you can . Narrow minded thick twats with no regard for others feelings , will end up with a life in and out of prison . They seem to think this kinda shit is funny and that others will too  . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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How about we devote police time to hunting down everyone who commented and re-shared the video? And the enablers, let's arrest all who made the recording device, the internet connection, the social media sites, news channels etc.
While we are at it we should retrospectively hunt down and punish everyone who has passed on any sick joke everywhere!
Yes it was sick, but criminal? |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"
round them all up and put them in a room with all the grenfell survivors . this was not harmless fun .this was sick and thick ."
Back to kangaroo courts are we? Fun is never harmless -whether as satire or plain old mockery -as the poster said, don't expect to have free speech without expecting to hear things you personally find distasteful, it's the price you pay for that liberty I'm afraid. Equally valid however, is your right to challenge them on it and I would suggest you do just that if it is so "offensive" to you |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"How about we devote police time to hunting down everyone who commented and re-shared the video? And the enablers, let's arrest all who made the recording device, the internet connection, the social media sites, news channels etc.
While we are at it we should retrospectively hunt down and punish everyone who has passed on any sick joke everywhere!
Yes it was sick, but criminal? "
I'll join your posse only if the cakes are battenburg's -suitably themed for Grenfell me thinks |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
round them all up and put them in a room with all the grenfell survivors . this was not harmless fun .this was sick and thick .
Back to kangaroo courts are we? Fun is never harmless -whether as satire or plain old mockery -as the poster said, don't expect to have free speech without expecting to hear things you personally find distasteful, it's the price you pay for that liberty I'm afraid. Equally valid however, is your right to challenge them on it and I would suggest you do just that if it is so "offensive" to you"
Theres free speech and theres someone coming and taking a piss on your grandmas grave right in the middle of a funeral. Get a grip for fuck sake its fine for people to condemn this shitty act. |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"But I can bet your ass that some of these imbeciles will , in the future , become a part of the prison system. And don't tell me you can't tell, because you can . Narrow minded thick twats with no regard for others feelings , will end up with a life in and out of prison . They seem to think this kinda shit is funny and that others will too . "
What has that got to do with anything, let alone free speech? Perfectly intelligent and respectable people go to prison too -a.k.a. Martha Stewart, the Birmingham 6, Nelson Mandela et al. Not only that but some perfectly intelligent people make absolute twat faced comments too -just look how many role models and celebrities have had to make public apologies or had sponsorship withdrawn over their stupid comments. They have as do we a right to say what they feel like-what they don't have is a right to say things unchallenged. Getting into a steam on a side thread to a swingers site is doing nothing other than improving the general hysteria to all things labelled "bad" in the tabloid media. |
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I have a question for all those that think this was nothing ...
If you had lost a relative in that fire how would you be feeling right now .
Those numbnuts need to publically apologise and donate money to the disaster fund ( a weeks wage wouldn't hurt any of them ) |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"
round them all up and put them in a room with all the grenfell survivors . this was not harmless fun .this was sick and thick .
Back to kangaroo courts are we? Fun is never harmless -whether as satire or plain old mockery -as the poster said, don't expect to have free speech without expecting to hear things you personally find distasteful, it's the price you pay for that liberty I'm afraid. Equally valid however, is your right to challenge them on it and I would suggest you do just that if it is so "offensive" to you
Theres free speech and theres someone coming and taking a piss on your grandmas grave right in the middle of a funeral. Get a grip for fuck sake its fine for people to condemn this shitty act."
And by showing said outrage on a carnival sideshow of a forum for swingers? -oh how I yearn to have such zeal -I would imagine that you must eat your cornflakes quickly before the milk curdles in your house. |
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By *ngelina4uWoman
over a year ago
Camberley/Middleton |
"
But I can bet your ass that some of these imbeciles will , in the future , become a part of the prison system. And don't tell me you can't tell, because you can . Narrow minded thick twats with no regard for others feelings , will end up with a life in and out of prison . "
One of the biggest communities in the world are as you put it "Narrow minded thick twats" actually two come to think of it as both Catholics and Muslims do not accept homosexuality and in many cases preach hate on it they also would castigate and in some cases condemn swingers to death for their as they have put it "disgusting habits" will they all end up in prison? NO! |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"I have a question for all those that think this was nothing ...
If you had lost a relative in that fire how would you be feeling right now .
Those numbnuts need to publically apologise and donate money to the disaster fund ( a weeks wage wouldn't hurt any of them )"
Nobody is saying it was nothing or not distasteful -we are just questioning why free speech suddenly has to have limits and rules.
I've lost a close friend to a "terrorist" atrocity -I have no qualms about jokes being made about the self same atrocity -and I even understand why people do it -sometimes it has more to do with coping about a tragedy of such scale than the mere fact of mockery (which I am equally ok with btw) |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"One of the biggest communities in the world are as you put it "Narrow minded thick twats" actually two come to think of it as both Catholics and Muslims do not accept homosexuality and in many cases preach hate on it they also would castigate and in some cases condemn swingers to death for their as they have put it "disgusting habits" will they all end up in prison? NO! "
Blanket labels help nobody -there are countless christian and Muslim groups that support the LGBQT community -"Muslims for Progressive Values" (MPV being just one. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
round them all up and put them in a room with all the grenfell survivors . this was not harmless fun .this was sick and thick .
Back to kangaroo courts are we? Fun is never harmless -whether as satire or plain old mockery -as the poster said, don't expect to have free speech without expecting to hear things you personally find distasteful, it's the price you pay for that liberty I'm afraid. Equally valid however, is your right to challenge them on it and I would suggest you do just that if it is so "offensive" to you
Theres free speech and theres someone coming and taking a piss on your grandmas grave right in the middle of a funeral. Get a grip for fuck sake its fine for people to condemn this shitty act.
And by showing said outrage on a carnival sideshow of a forum for swingers? -oh how I yearn to have such zeal -I would imagine that you must eat your cornflakes quickly before the milk curdles in your house."
What are you talking about? Im just responding to your thick comments because they happen to be here, not my fault you spouted it on a swingers site. |
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"I have a question for all those that think this was nothing ...
If you had lost a relative in that fire how would you be feeling right now .
Those numbnuts need to publically apologise and donate money to the disaster fund ( a weeks wage wouldn't hurt any of them )
Nobody is saying it was nothing or not distasteful -we are just questioning why free speech suddenly has to have limits and rules.
I've lost a close friend to a "terrorist" atrocity -I have no qualms about jokes being made about the self same atrocity -and I even understand why people do it -sometimes it has more to do with coping about a tragedy of such scale than the mere fact of mockery (which I am equally ok with btw)"
this,was a,step too far .way beyond mockery. if you let arseholes like this get away with it then it sends out a,signal that this sort of behaviour is OK when actually it us not .it was disgusting ,pathetic and shameful ..today's society is made up of moronic behaviour and is no way funny whatsoever .if that's anyone's idea of fun then god help them |
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"I have a question for all those that think this was nothing ...
If you had lost a relative in that fire how would you be feeling right now .
Those numbnuts need to publically apologise and donate money to the disaster fund ( a weeks wage wouldn't hurt any of them )
Nobody is saying it was nothing or not distasteful -we are just questioning why free speech suddenly has to have limits and rules.
I've lost a close friend to a "terrorist" atrocity -I have no qualms about jokes being made about the self same atrocity -and I even understand why people do it -sometimes it has more to do with coping about a tragedy of such scale than the mere fact of mockery (which I am equally ok with btw)"
where was the free speech in burning an effigy of grenfell. |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"I have a question for all those that think this was nothing ...
If you had lost a relative in that fire how would you be feeling right now .
Those numbnuts need to publically apologise and donate money to the disaster fund ( a weeks wage wouldn't hurt any of them )
Nobody is saying it was nothing or not distasteful -we are just questioning why free speech suddenly has to have limits and rules.
I've lost a close friend to a "terrorist" atrocity -I have no qualms about jokes being made about the self same atrocity -and I even understand why people do it -sometimes it has more to do with coping about a tragedy of such scale than the mere fact of mockery (which I am equally ok with btw)this,was a,step too far .way beyond mockery. if you let arseholes like this get away with it then it sends out a,signal that this sort of behaviour is OK when actually it us not .it was disgusting ,pathetic and shameful ..today's society is made up of moronic behaviour and is no way funny whatsoever .if that's anyone's idea of fun then god help them "
You still haven't explained why having a contradictory opinion is a bad thing let alone a crime. Secondly, why should my or anyones thoughts be suppressed -arguing the point is what the wider debate in free speech is all about. I may not like what you have to say but I will defend your right to say it -to the death if necessary. |
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By *ngelina4uWoman
over a year ago
Camberley/Middleton |
"One of the biggest communities in the world are as you put it "Narrow minded thick twats" actually two come to think of it as both Catholics and Muslims do not accept homosexuality and in many cases preach hate on it they also would castigate and in some cases condemn swingers to death for their as they have put it "disgusting habits" will they all end up in prison? NO!
Blanket labels help nobody -there are countless christian and Muslim groups that support the LGBQT community -"Muslims for Progressive Values" (MPV being just one."
There are even more that condone it if you are going to be pedantic. |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"I have a question for all those that think this was nothing ...
If you had lost a relative in that fire how would you be feeling right now .
Those numbnuts need to publically apologise and donate money to the disaster fund ( a weeks wage wouldn't hurt any of them )
Nobody is saying it was nothing or not distasteful -we are just questioning why free speech suddenly has to have limits and rules.
I've lost a close friend to a "terrorist" atrocity -I have no qualms about jokes being made about the self same atrocity -and I even understand why people do it -sometimes it has more to do with coping about a tragedy of such scale than the mere fact of mockery (which I am equally ok with btw)where was the free speech in burning an effigy of grenfell."
Everywhere-there are so many angles to this question that I am at a loss as to where to start -or end. If I pick just one -it could be people questioning why the deaths of these people are treated so much more seriously than the countless others dying of poverty or stabbing. I cannot speak for those that made this statement and I don't propose to either -if you really want a truthful answer to that question, I suggest you engage with them not the great unwashed masses spewing bile here on fabswingers. |
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"Nor should they be charged.
What they did was undoubtedly in bad taste and stupid. No doubt that many will find it offensive but it wasn't a criminal act. Nobody was hurt. Nobody was abused. Nobody was threatened.
We must stop this insidious form of mob rule where loud groups on social media make stupid but relativly harmless incidents into 'crimes'.
Bad taste is not a crime. It doesn't become one because we've developed a national obsession with being offended. Down that path lies a place none of us really want to go.
If we want to retain the freedoms we value we need to accept that being offended occasionally is one of the prices we need to pay.
"
I agree. I'd never condone what they did in a million years, but twisting the law to convict them of something - anything - worries me more to be honest.
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By *r.BlondeMan
over a year ago
Chester/Wirral |
"Nor should they be charged.
What they did was undoubtedly in bad taste and stupid. No doubt that many will find it offensive but it wasn't a criminal act. Nobody was hurt. Nobody was abused. Nobody was threatened.
We must stop this insidious form of mob rule where loud groups on social media make stupid but relativly harmless incidents into 'crimes'.
Bad taste is not a crime. It doesn't become one because we've developed a national obsession with being offended. Down that path lies a place none of us really want to go.
If we want to retain the freedoms we value we need to accept that being offended occasionally is one of the prices we need to pay.
I agree. I'd never condone what they did in a million years, but twisting the law to convict them of something - anything - worries me more to be honest.
"
yeah becoming like a totalitarian state. |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"One of the biggest communities in the world are as you put it "Narrow minded thick twats" actually two come to think of it as both Catholics and Muslims do not accept homosexuality and in many cases preach hate on it they also would castigate and in some cases condemn swingers to death for their as they have put it "disgusting habits" will they all end up in prison? NO!
Blanket labels help nobody -there are countless christian and Muslim groups that support the LGBQT community -"Muslims for Progressive Values" (MPV being just one.
There are even more that condone it if you are going to be pedantic."
A majority is not everyone in said community -and it certainly doesn't represent those towing the line because they are too scared to speak out or having their freedom of expression suppressed by groupthink and peer pressure (as an uncanny parrallel to this tthread that is) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
You still haven't explained why having a contradictory opinion is a bad thing let alone a crime. Secondly, why should my or anyones thoughts be suppressed -arguing the point is what the wider debate in free speech is all about. I may not like what you have to say but I will defend your right to say it -to the death if necessary."
How is making an effigy, videoing it and laughing at people burning to death an opinion? Explain that to me? Morally as human beings we should know that that is plain flat out wrong. A country of free speech does not also mean it is a country that can be morally bankrupt.
This was an act, not an opinion. Is it actually against the law? Im not sure, is it as bad as someone shouting racist abuse at someone else, which IS a crime. I think it definately is. I would like to see them made to make a public apology and I would like to think they actually took the time to think about it and felt genuinely sorry. Then we could move on and clowns like you can stop falsely protecting shitty acts under the veil of free speech. |
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I remember abuse being shouted and banners waved at the procession for dead servicemen at Brize Norton. I also recall two girls dressed as the burning twin towers Halloween whilst the embers were still burning.
I am in no way condoning what these men did, the racial undertones are obvious, for the life of me I can't see where you could find humour in such a tragedy but bad taste, inappropriate protest is not a police matter I'd have thought. |
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"I have a question for all those that think this was nothing ...
If you had lost a relative in that fire how would you be feeling right now .
Those numbnuts need to publically apologise and donate money to the disaster fund ( a weeks wage wouldn't hurt any of them )
Nobody is saying it was nothing or not distasteful -we are just questioning why free speech suddenly has to have limits and rules.
I've lost a close friend to a "terrorist" atrocity -I have no qualms about jokes being made about the self same atrocity -and I even understand why people do it -sometimes it has more to do with coping about a tragedy of such scale than the mere fact of mockery (which I am equally ok with btw)this,was a,step too far .way beyond mockery. if you let arseholes like this get away with it then it sends out a,signal that this sort of behaviour is OK when actually it us not .it was disgusting ,pathetic and shameful ..today's society is made up of moronic behaviour and is no way funny whatsoever .if that's anyone's idea of fun then god help them
You still haven't explained why having a contradictory opinion is a bad thing let alone a crime. Secondly, why should my or anyones thoughts be suppressed -arguing the point is what the wider debate in free speech is all about. I may not like what you have to say but I will defend your right to say it -to the death if necessary."
i have nothing against free speech so if you had lost someone in that fire .you'd be saying its OK its nothing more than free speech .thus was disgraceful behaviour by so called fellow human beings( if you can call them that ) . they were taking the piss and by drawing pictures of people with brown paper ( one of whom was a child ) was despicable.these people overstepped the mark .they knew,what they were doing . this had absolutely nothing to do with free speech whatsoever . I feel for all the grenfell people .this should not have happened |
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"
You still haven't explained why having a contradictory opinion is a bad thing let alone a crime. Secondly, why should my or anyones thoughts be suppressed -arguing the point is what the wider debate in free speech is all about. I may not like what you have to say but I will defend your right to say it -to the death if necessary.
How is making an effigy, videoing it and laughing at people burning to death an opinion? Explain that to me? Morally as human beings we should know that that is plain flat out wrong. A country of free speech does not also mean it is a country that can be morally bankrupt.
This was an act, not an opinion. Is it actually against the law? Im not sure, is it as bad as someone shouting racist abuse at someone else, which IS a crime. I think it definately is. I would like to see them made to make a public apology and I would like to think they actually took the time to think about it and felt genuinely sorry. Then we could move on and clowns like you can stop falsely protecting shitty acts under the veil of free speech."
Well said |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Personally as sick as it is, I rather the police prioritized, proper crime first, get the streets under control before they go after someones sense of humour |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"
You still haven't explained why having a contradictory opinion is a bad thing let alone a crime. Secondly, why should my or anyones thoughts be suppressed -arguing the point is what the wider debate in free speech is all about. I may not like what you have to say but I will defend your right to say it -to the death if necessary.
How is making an effigy, videoing it and laughing at people burning to death an opinion? Explain that to me? Morally as human beings we should know that that is plain flat out wrong. A country of free speech does not also mean it is a country that can be morally bankrupt.
This was an act, not an opinion. Is it actually against the law? Im not sure, is it as bad as someone shouting racist abuse at someone else, which IS a crime. I think it definately is. I would like to see them made to make a public apology and I would like to think they actually took the time to think about it and felt genuinely sorry. Then we could move on and clowns like you can stop falsely protecting shitty acts under the veil of free speech."
IF that were true -any video (including film documentaries), any protest, any artistic act or expresion whether dance, music, poetry, drama, sculpture or painting would be equally to blame and would by implication need to be outlawed -would you really want to live in a world devoid of such nuance? |
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Just so everyone knows the men behind it.. a 19 year old a 46 year old 45 year old and 49 year old have all handed themselves in to the police station at 10pm and were all arrested for public disorder... sick bastareds. |
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"Just so everyone knows the men behind it.. a 19 year old a 46 year old 45 year old and 49 year old have all handed themselves in to the police station at 10pm and were all arrested for public disorder... sick bastareds."
At least they had the decency to hand themselves I suppose .
|
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"
You still haven't explained why having a contradictory opinion is a bad thing let alone a crime. Secondly, why should my or anyones thoughts be suppressed -arguing the point is what the wider debate in free speech is all about. I may not like what you have to say but I will defend your right to say it -to the death if necessary.
How is making an effigy, videoing it and laughing at people burning to death an opinion? Explain that to me? Morally as human beings we should know that that is plain flat out wrong. A country of free speech does not also mean it is a country that can be morally bankrupt.
This was an act, not an opinion. Is it actually against the law? Im not sure, is it as bad as someone shouting racist abuse at someone else, which IS a crime. I think it definately is. I would like to see them made to make a public apology and I would like to think they actually took the time to think about it and felt genuinely sorry. Then we could move on and clowns like you can stop falsely protecting shitty acts under the veil of free speech. Well said "
But if we sing about raping my bitch ho's in my latest grime video it's somehow all roses and we should just laugh it off -hypocrisy is a strange beast indeed? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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LISTEN. If your child breaks your other childs toy for no reason. You make them apologise.
STOP with this fear of ‘where will it end’ or ‘everyones getting mad’ Its ok to condemn shitty acts. Its not wrong to do so. You won’t be on the end of it if you are a good person.
IF you are a proud british citizen, then we should want to define who we are, morally as people, not live in fear of offending the offensive. I neither want muslim hate preachers OR grenfell tower effigy burners to go along uncondemned.
And thats the last thing im going to say in here because im getting wound up and its a waste of my time and energy. |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"Just so everyone knows the men behind it.. a 19 year old a 46 year old 45 year old and 49 year old have all handed themselves in to the police station at 10pm and were all arrested for public disorder... sick bastareds. At least they had the decency to hand themselves I suppose ."
No -they have been shamed oppressed by the weight of public opinion and castigated to the point that they suddenly believe that they must be guilty of something when their only crime was crossing with the court of public opinion |
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"Just so everyone knows the men behind it.. a 19 year old a 46 year old 45 year old and 49 year old have all handed themselves in to the police station at 10pm and were all arrested for public disorder... sick bastareds. At least they had the decency to hand themselves I suppose ."
Well yeah but it was still a sick and vile act. I know people who died in that fire and people who knew people.. the screams that roared that night will never be forgotten and still seriously effect people. ?? |
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"Just so everyone knows the men behind it.. a 19 year old a 46 year old 45 year old and 49 year old have all handed themselves in to the police station at 10pm and were all arrested for public disorder... sick bastareds. At least they had the decency to hand themselves I suppose .
No -they have been shamed oppressed by the weight of public opinion and castigated to the point that they suddenly believe that they must be guilty of something when their only crime was crossing with the court of public opinion"
 |
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"Just so everyone knows the men behind it.. a 19 year old a 46 year old 45 year old and 49 year old have all handed themselves in to the police station at 10pm and were all arrested for public disorder... sick bastareds. At least they had the decency to hand themselves I suppose .
No -they have been shamed oppressed by the weight of public opinion and castigated to the point that they suddenly believe that they must be guilty of something when their only crime was crossing with the court of public opinion"
Come again... |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"Just so everyone knows the men behind it.. a 19 year old a 46 year old 45 year old and 49 year old have all handed themselves in to the police station at 10pm and were all arrested for public disorder... sick bastareds. At least they had the decency to hand themselves I suppose .
No -they have been shamed oppressed by the weight of public opinion and castigated to the point that they suddenly believe that they must be guilty of something when their only crime was crossing with the court of public opinion
Come again..."
Oh do keep up |
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"LISTEN. If your child breaks your other childs toy for no reason. You make them apologise.
STOP with this fear of ‘where will it end’ or ‘everyones getting mad’ Its ok to condemn shitty acts. Its not wrong to do so. You won’t be on the end of it if you are a good person.
IF you are a proud british citizen, then we should want to define who we are, morally as people, not live in fear of offending the offensive. I neither want muslim hate preachers OR grenfell tower effigy burners to go along uncondemned.
And thats the last thing im going to say in here because im getting wound up and its a waste of my time and energy."
well spouting shite about free speech in this instance does not sit right with me.Grenfell was a disaster not something to be taken lightly |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"
well spouting shite about free speech in this instance does not sit right with me.Grenfell was a disaster not something to be taken lightly "
Well I'd hate to break it to you -free speech is exactly that -the right to spout shite -tho not unchallenged |
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By *r.BlondeMan
over a year ago
Chester/Wirral |
"LISTEN. If your child breaks your other childs toy for no reason. You make them apologise.
STOP with this fear of ‘where will it end’ or ‘everyones getting mad’ Its ok to condemn shitty acts. Its not wrong to do so. You won’t be on the end of it if you are a good person.
IF you are a proud british citizen, then we should want to define who we are, morally as people, not live in fear of offending the offensive. I neither want muslim hate preachers OR grenfell tower effigy burners to go along uncondemned.
And thats the last thing im going to say in here because im getting wound up and its a waste of my time and energy.well spouting shite about free speech in this instance does not sit right with me.Grenfell was a disaster not something to be taken lightly "
yeah it isn't but we are meant to be living in a democracy. |
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"Just so everyone knows the men behind it.. a 19 year old a 46 year old 45 year old and 49 year old have all handed themselves in to the police station at 10pm and were all arrested for public disorder... sick bastareds. At least they had the decency to hand themselves I suppose .
No -they have been shamed oppressed by the weight of public opinion and castigated to the point that they suddenly believe that they must be guilty of something when their only crime was crossing with the court of public opinion
Come again...
Oh do keep up"
Only crime was crossing with the court of public opinion!!  are you mad? Saying that makes you just as bad. Sick in the head.
What they did was take the piss out a devastating tragedy.. nothing but bullies. And if you did not onow bullying is in fact a crime not just in the public's eye but by law.. you need to read up. |
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"
well spouting shite about free speech in this instance does not sit right with me.Grenfell was a disaster not something to be taken lightly
Well I'd hate to break it to you -free speech is exactly that -the right to spout shite -tho not unchallenged"
You want free speech about the grenfel disaster then take it else were. |
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"LISTEN. If your child breaks your other childs toy for no reason. You make them apologise.
STOP with this fear of ‘where will it end’ or ‘everyones getting mad’ Its ok to condemn shitty acts. Its not wrong to do so. You won’t be on the end of it if you are a good person.
IF you are a proud british citizen, then we should want to define who we are, morally as people, not live in fear of offending the offensive. I neither want muslim hate preachers OR grenfell tower effigy burners to go along uncondemned.
And thats the last thing im going to say in here because im getting wound up and its a waste of my time and energy.well spouting shite about free speech in this instance does not sit right with me.Grenfell was a disaster not something to be taken lightly yeah it isn't but we are meant to be living in a democracy."
this has nothing to do with democracy ..this was,a tragedy .show some respect .there are times when its best to be silent and show dignity . did these morons show any respect ...end of ..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
well spouting shite about free speech in this instance does not sit right with me.Grenfell was a disaster not something to be taken lightly
Well I'd hate to break it to you -free speech is exactly that -the right to spout shite -tho not unchallenged"
But that is not free speech, there is no such thing as ‘free speech’ not in this country or any other - technically.
You try walking down any High Street or public area shouting racist abuse (I’m not inferring you ‘are’ rasict btw) and see how far you get before your picked up. Everyone has the right to their own opinions and the right to express those opinions.... up to a point, but are not allowed to express them publicly if they cross a line, and that, my friend is not ‘free speech’ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just so everyone knows the men behind it.. a 19 year old a 46 year old 45 year old and 49 year old have all handed themselves in to the police station at 10pm and were all arrested for public disorder... sick bastareds. At least they had the decency to hand themselves I suppose .
No -they have been shamed oppressed by the weight of public opinion and castigated to the point that they suddenly believe that they must be guilty of something when their only crime was crossing with the court of public opinion"
I disagree. Their intent was to be shocking and in bad taste. Otherwise they wouldn't have done it. They just did not expect it to go viral and have such a public backlash. They have been incredibly insensitive and lacking in consideration. Whilst not a crime, it isn't like they are making a reasoned political or social statement either so I don't see that it is defensible. Being stupid isn't freedom of speech.
I would say that the media outlets that decide to make this news don't help. Sensationalism and engendering outrage to promote website hits and raise viewer ratings is more worthy of scorn and derision. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My view on this appears to be much the same as the majority, in the fact that I think it was distasteful, very unpleasant and most likely something few people would do. However I see the issue here being mainly with the person who uploaded this video clip from their phone.
If people want to make cardboard models of anything they like and burn them within their own properties and find "entertainment" in doing so is not illegal and should never be so.
In my view the person who uploaded and shared this video is at most fault. It would be assumed that such a video would cause distress to many.
Technically it's not a hate crime, I would think its not far off though!
Should these people be named and shamed? If you want to see them get burnt out of their homes or perhaps stabbed then sure, go ahead and name and shame. What would this achieve, maybe even more hate crime, and on and on the cycle goes. It would sell newspapers though, maybe that's what really matters!
My view in brief: bottom line is, the act was morally wrong, unpleasant and very distasteful, it wasn't illegal, should it have been? No, should the posting of the video be? Maybe.
What will the outcome be?
My guess is there will be no charges made, the media will ultimately name and shame these people, there will most likely be repercussions by vigilantes. |
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"My view on this appears to be much the same as the majority, in the fact that I think it was distasteful, very unpleasant and most likely something few people would do. However I see the issue here being mainly with the person who uploaded this video clip from their phone.
If people want to make cardboard models of anything they like and burn them within their own properties and find "entertainment" in doing so is not illegal and should never be so.
In my view the person who uploaded and shared this video is at most fault. It would be assumed that such a video would cause distress to many.
Technically it's not a hate crime, I would think its not far off though!
Should these people be named and shamed? If you want to see them get burnt out of their homes or perhaps stabbed then sure, go ahead and name and shame. What would this achieve, maybe even more hate crime, and on and on the cycle goes. It would sell newspapers though, maybe that's what really matters!
My view in brief: bottom line is, the act was morally wrong, unpleasant and very distasteful, it wasn't illegal, should it have been? No, should the posting of the video be? Maybe.
What will the outcome be?
My guess is there will be no charges made, the media will ultimately name and shame these people, there will most likely be repercussions by vigilantes."
This! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Last night people across the country celebration the torture, dismemberment and exacution of a young man...this thread just oozes with hypocrisy.. well done  "
Massive difference and not hypocrisy. Guy Fawkes was arrested, tried, convicted and executed for treason, for the intention and attempt to kill King James I and his Government.
What this is about bears absolutely no resemblance to the severity of Guy Fawkes’ crime. |
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"Last night people across the country celebration the torture, dismemberment and exacution of a young man...this thread just oozes with hypocrisy.. well done
Massive difference and not hypocrisy. Guy Fawkes was arrested, tried, convicted and executed for treason, for the intention and attempt to kill King James I and his Government.
What this is about bears absolutely no resemblance to the severity of Guy Fawkes’ crime."
Oh I see, because burning a piece of cardboard is worse than mutilation and murder hahaha |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I've not actually seen the video, but whilst it is no doubt in poor taste, these individuals thought it was a joke.
To the best of my knowledge, this is still a free country, and there are no laws against having a sick sense of humour.
As another post says, each year we celebrate the brutal execution of Guy Fawkes. We also celebrate a crucifixion at Easter, not to mention all the thousands that were killed in the wars that we celebrate this weekend.
To put a different spin on this, all those complaining about this are demanding people be arrested because they don't like their sense of humour. Aside from the prejudice this invokes, where do you draw the line? Anyone who laughs at a Christmas cracker joke going to be arrested too?
How does Jesus get his Christmas shopping home from the supermarket?
On a Lidl donkey.... Nenawnenaw... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" Oh I see, because burning a piece of cardboard is worse than mutilation and murder hahaha"
1) Guy Fawkes’ treasonable act occurred nearly 500 years ago, Grenfell not quite 18 months ago.
2) His was a conscious decision to commit murder and treason, Grenfell was a terrible event that the victims had no control over.
3) To use an effigy of the flats and depict images of those that died that night shows a complete lack of empathy, sympathy and a total disregard for human life in general. Which in my own opinion is a sickness that today’s society suffers from.
|
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By *good-being-badMan
over a year ago
mis-types and auto corrects leads cock leeds |
I've not seen the video.. I don't do face ache.
I did see it mentioned on the news last night and in the same news program it said that here had been four young people stabbed to death on London's streets in a short period of time. I've heard it on my local news of several young folk stabbed to death in Yorkshire recently
Do I think the police are using their overstretched (we're often told they are ) resources in the best possible way if they're chasing down the posters of videos that most folk will find repulsive or would I prefer them to be preventing the needless deaths of young folk ...
I'm going for the latter. |
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" Oh I see, because burning a piece of cardboard is worse than mutilation and murder hahaha
1) Guy Fawkes’ treasonable act occurred nearly 500 years ago, Grenfell not quite 18 months ago.
2) His was a conscious decision to commit murder and treason, Grenfell was a terrible event that the victims had no control over.
3) To use an effigy of the flats and depict images of those that died that night shows a complete lack of empathy, sympathy and a total disregard for human life in general. Which in my own opinion is a sickness that today’s society suffers from.
"
So what you’re saying is that dismemberment and torture is ok, I see... next you’ll be saying illegal wars are ok too |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
There is no doubt that what these people did was sick and cruel, but apparently not against the law per se.
What will no doubt happen now is trial by media, naming and shaming, and attacks by vigilantes. Maybe attacks on their families too, bullying of their children.
What we should all be asking ourselves is where should it end? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" So what you’re saying is that dismemberment and torture is ok, I see... next you’ll be saying illegal wars are ok too "
No, I’m not sure where dismemberment and torture comes into it? Guy Fawkes was hung, that, was the punishment for treason at that time (thankfully the legal system has moved on since then).
I’m clueless as to why you would think I would support wars (legal or illegal) either?
|
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If the video had been ignored and people just got on with their lives , the perpetrators would have gotten no reaction . And fab wouldn’t have two threads running with all manner of vitriol being thrown about .
But that’s the way things have become now . Social media sites in the main have become a platform for all that’s bad in this world . You could spend 24 hours a day seven days a week finding things on social media to be offended by , and still not even scratch the surface . Or you could walk away , get on with your daily business and enjoy your life . Problem is that these days so many enjoy their life by being outraged by the actions of other people , because they engage in the platforms that facilitate it .
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Fuck sake ,, these people are not intentionally excersising free speech , or makeing a political statement , they just wanted to illicit a reaction with there black ( if over the top ) humour , the country is in uproar , baying for blood ,, where is the outcry against the poppy burners , the memorial defacers the demonstrators present at the return of our fallen hero’s , there are more important issues That deserve people’s outcry than a few mentally challenged idiots |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"Just so everyone knows the men behind it.. a 19 year old a 46 year old 45 year old and 49 year old have all handed themselves in to the police station at 10pm and were all arrested for public disorder... sick bastareds. At least they had the decency to hand themselves I suppose .
No -they have been shamed oppressed by the weight of public opinion and castigated to the point that they suddenly believe that they must be guilty of something when their only crime was crossing with the court of public opinion
Come again...
Oh do keep up
Only crime was crossing with the court of public opinion!! are you mad? Saying that makes you just as bad. Sick in the head.
What they did was take the piss out a devastating tragedy.. nothing but bullies. And if you did not onow bullying is in fact a crime not just in the public's eye but by law.. you need to read up. "
Keeep your opinions coming mate -actually I'm quite content with my lot -after all calling someone "sick in the head" would be quite a compliment from this enlightened bunch |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"Fuck sake ,, these people are not intentionally excersising free speech , or makeing a political statement , they just wanted to illicit a reaction with there black ( if over the top ) humour , the country is in uproar , baying for blood ,, where is the outcry against the poppy burners , the memorial defacers the demonstrators present at the return of our fallen hero’s , there are more important issues That deserve people’s outcry than a few mentally challenged idiots "
And how aren't they? If not -what limits do you think should be applied to thoughts to then qualify of as free speech, freedom of association or dare I say it independence of mind? |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"I've not seen the video.. I don't do face ache.
I did see it mentioned on the news last night and in the same news program it said that here had been four young people stabbed to death on London's streets in a short period of time. I've heard it on my local news of several young folk stabbed to death in Yorkshire recently
Do I think the police are using their overstretched (we're often told they are ) resources in the best possible way if they're chasing down the posters of videos that most folk will find repulsive or would I prefer them to be preventing the needless deaths of young folk ...
I'm going for the latter. "
All crimes should be dealt with, no matter if people think they are more trivial than the next
As much as I thought the video was distasteful/ not within the bounds of decency and I worry about how nasty some people are, I wouldn't have thought this was a crime. |
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" So what you’re saying is that dismemberment and torture is ok, I see... next you’ll be saying illegal wars are ok too
No, I’m not sure where dismemberment and torture comes into it? Guy Fawkes was hung, that, was the punishment for treason at that time (thankfully the legal system has moved on since then).
I’m clueless as to why you would think I would support wars (legal or illegal) either?
"
.
Actually he broke his neck and pelvis throwing himself off the ladder to the hanging platform. |
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I didn’t say they are not entitled to free speech , I’m saying having watched and listened , I wouldn’t credit them with the intelligence to voice it , and that this is just over the top gallows humour |
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"I've not seen the video.. I don't do face ache.
I did see it mentioned on the news last night and in the same news program it said that here had been four young people stabbed to death on London's streets in a short period of time. I've heard it on my local news of several young folk stabbed to death in Yorkshire recently
Do I think the police are using their overstretched (we're often told they are ) resources in the best possible way if they're chasing down the posters of videos that most folk will find repulsive or would I prefer them to be preventing the needless deaths of young folk ...
I'm going for the latter.
All crimes should be dealt with, no matter if people think they are more trivial than the next
As much as I thought the video was distasteful/ not within the bounds of decency and I worry about how nasty some people are, I wouldn't have thought this was a crime."
That's fine in principle, but you have the chief constable saying that they aren't remotely close to having the budget to do it all, never mind the shockingly low crime arrest rate on many serious crimes. So do you want higher taxes, more debt or prioritisation? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I dont like that the police have scratched there haid to make up an offence dueto public pressure
Yes it was wrong but what kind of country is this becoming demolition man world is coming fast
Soon salt and sugar will be illigal as there bad for ya"
No need to make anything up, it’s a clear cut section 5 public order offence. Displaying writing, signs, words or behaviour likely to cause harassment alarm or distress. Quite straight forward. |
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"I dont like that the police have scratched there haid to make up an offence dueto public pressure
Yes it was wrong but what kind of country is this becoming demolition man world is coming fast
Soon salt and sugar will be illigal as there bad for ya
No need to make anything up, it’s a clear cut section 5 public order offence. Displaying writing, signs, words or behaviour likely to cause harassment alarm or distress. Quite straight forward."
.
This whole website falls under it  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I dont like that the police have scratched there haid to make up an offence dueto public pressure
Yes it was wrong but what kind of country is this becoming demolition man world is coming fast
Soon salt and sugar will be illigal as there bad for ya
No need to make anything up, it’s a clear cut section 5 public order offence. Displaying writing, signs, words or behaviour likely to cause harassment alarm or distress. Quite straight forward..
This whole website falls under it "
No it doesn’t I’m afraid, it has to be in a public place. Hence the name. Public order act  |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"I dont like that the police have scratched there haid to make up an offence dueto public pressure
Yes it was wrong but what kind of country is this becoming demolition man world is coming fast
Soon salt and sugar will be illigal as there bad for ya
No need to make anything up, it’s a clear cut section 5 public order offence. Displaying writing, signs, words or behaviour likely to cause harassment alarm or distress. Quite straight forward."
How is this any different to making an effigy of Boris Johnson (which did happen btw) and lighting that -surely his children could complain that it was inciting others to murder their father . After all, this is a piece of cardboard we're talking about with a few insensitive comments thrown in to boot. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" How is this any different to making an effigy of Boris Johnson (which did happen btw) and lighting that "
It’s not, but 2 wrongs don’t make a right either |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I dont like that the police have scratched there haid to make up an offence dueto public pressure
Yes it was wrong but what kind of country is this becoming demolition man world is coming fast
Soon salt and sugar will be illigal as there bad for ya
No need to make anything up, it’s a clear cut section 5 public order offence. Displaying writing, signs, words or behaviour likely to cause harassment alarm or distress. Quite straight forward.
How is this any different to making an effigy of Boris Johnson (which did happen btw) and lighting that -surely his children could complain that it was inciting others to murder their father . After all, this is a piece of cardboard we're talking about with a few insensitive comments thrown in to boot."
Who said it was any different? |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"I've not seen the video.. I don't do face ache.
I did see it mentioned on the news last night and in the same news program it said that here had been four young people stabbed to death on London's streets in a short period of time. I've heard it on my local news of several young folk stabbed to death in Yorkshire recently
Do I think the police are using their overstretched (we're often told they are ) resources in the best possible way if they're chasing down the posters of videos that most folk will find repulsive or would I prefer them to be preventing the needless deaths of young folk ...
I'm going for the latter.
All crimes should be dealt with, no matter if people think they are more trivial than the next
As much as I thought the video was distasteful/ not within the bounds of decency and I worry about how nasty some people are, I wouldn't have thought this was a crime.
That's fine in principle, but you have the chief constable saying that they aren't remotely close to having the budget to do it all, never mind the shockingly low crime arrest rate on many serious crimes. So do you want higher taxes, more debt or prioritisation?"
I was addressing his post of one crime being more important than the other. It isn't.
|
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
" How is this any different to making an effigy of Boris Johnson (which did happen btw) and lighting that
It’s not, but 2 wrongs don’t make a right either"
Correct me if I'm wrong -but isn't the whole point of Guy fawkes to make and burn effigies of things/ people you disagree with? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" How is this any different to making an effigy of Boris Johnson (which did happen btw) and lighting that
It’s not, but 2 wrongs don’t make a right either
Correct me if I'm wrong -but isn't the whole point of Guy fawkes to make and burn effigies of things/ people you disagree with?"
Apparently not. The point is to make and burn effigies of things / people that the politically correct brigade tell us to disagree with.
So much for freedom. How come no body complained that the effigy of Trump was incitement to war?
|
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Twenty years ago, no-one would've known this took place except those who witnessed it.
They could have had their smirk, their fun, and none of us would be any the wiser.
No crime committed.
As soon as one of them decides to film and the event and upload to the internet, the circumstances change.
The event becomes a broadcast to the world.
That is where the crime occurs - broadcasting offensive material. |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
" How is this any different to making an effigy of Boris Johnson (which did happen btw) and lighting that
It’s not, but 2 wrongs don’t make a right either
Correct me if I'm wrong -but isn't the whole point of Guy fawkes to make and burn effigies of things/ people you disagree with?
Apparently not. The point is to make and burn effigies of things / people that the politically correct brigade tell us to disagree with.
So much for freedom. How come no body complained that the effigy of Trump was incitement to war?
"
Oh you don't want to be saying nasty things like that -next thing they will be calling you sick just like me. |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"Twenty years ago, no-one would've known this took place except those who witnessed it.
They could have had their smirk, their fun, and none of us would be any the wiser.
No crime committed.
As soon as one of them decides to film and the event and upload to the internet, the circumstances change.
The event becomes a broadcast to the world.
That is where the crime occurs - broadcasting offensive material."
I'll come back to my grime record/ artistic interpretation point again -why do the rules change when a comedian/ musician/ artist make reference to these events in an equally confrontational way? |
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" So what you’re saying is that dismemberment and torture is ok, I see... next you’ll be saying illegal wars are ok too
No, I’m not sure where dismemberment and torture comes into it? Guy Fawkes was hung, that, was the punishment for treason at that time (thankfully the legal system has moved on since then).
I’m clueless as to why you would think I would support wars (legal or illegal) either?
"
Think you need to open up a book and educate yourself on your history a little bit.. your morals are as straight forward as cobwebs by saying one is fine and the other is a crime against humanity.. very hard to talk to someone with morals as swayed as yours so let’s leave it at that.. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
I'll come back to my grime record/ artistic interpretation point again -why do the rules change when a comedian/ musician/ artist make reference to these events in an equally confrontational way?"
Do the rules change?
I don't think so.
Someone needs to make a complaint first.
Then it needs to be assessed against the criminal books.
Finally, someone has to decide if it is in the "public interest" to prosecute.
|
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"I dont like that the police have scratched there haid to make up an offence dueto public pressure
Yes it was wrong but what kind of country is this becoming demolition man world is coming fast
Soon salt and sugar will be illigal as there bad for ya
No need to make anything up, it’s a clear cut section 5 public order offence. Displaying writing, signs, words or behaviour likely to cause harassment alarm or distress. Quite straight forward..
This whole website falls under it
No it doesn’t I’m afraid, it has to be in a public place. Hence the name. Public order act "
.
You don't have to be a member to read the forums, they're open to the public |
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" So what you’re saying is that dismemberment and torture is ok, I see... next you’ll be saying illegal wars are ok too
No, I’m not sure where dismemberment and torture comes into it? Guy Fawkes was hung, that, was the punishment for treason at that time (thankfully the legal system has moved on since then).
I’m clueless as to why you would think I would support wars (legal or illegal) either?
.
Actually he broke his neck and pelvis throwing himself off the ladder to the hanging platform."
As above plus Catesby and the rest were hung, drawn & quartered! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
This is still a free country within which we each hold the rights of freedom of speech...since when did public acceptability or hereby lackof constitute a criminal offence?
Without condoning these actions in any way I'd like to know where the line is drawn in cases like these and ultimately who decides where said line is? |
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"I dont like that the police have scratched there haid to make up an offence dueto public pressure
Yes it was wrong but what kind of country is this becoming demolition man world is coming fast
Soon salt and sugar will be illigal as there bad for ya
No need to make anything up, it’s a clear cut section 5 public order offence. Displaying writing, signs, words or behaviour likely to cause harassment alarm or distress. Quite straight forward..
This whole website falls under it
No it doesn’t I’m afraid, it has to be in a public place. Hence the name. Public order act .
You don't have to be a member to read the forums, they're open to the public "
Yep , a strange but true fact .
Anyone on the internet can read these forums |
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I'm intrested to see how the legal case works out in this case. Since it was done in the privacy of someone's home for their own amusement then it's hard for me to see why the charges against all of them could stick. Possibly the person who posted it to the internet. But even then that sounds a weak case and possibly a slippery slope depending on the context and intent of the posting onto the internet. I probably agree with everyone else that personally I found this sickening and it has caused some distress. But I would say think about how we use the law? People in glass houses spring to mind. What happens when one day the shoe is on the other foot (especially if you have a dark humour like my self) and the police knock at your door because your humour has caused unintentional offence. |
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"I'm intrested to see how the legal case works out in this case. Since it was done in the privacy of someone's home for their own amusement then it's hard for me to see why the charges against all of them could stick. Possibly the person who posted it to the internet. But even then that sounds a weak case and possibly a slippery slope depending on the context and intent of the posting onto the internet. I probably agree with everyone else that personally I found this sickening and it has caused some distress. But I would say think about how we use the law? People in glass houses spring to mind. What happens when one day the shoe is on the other foot (especially if you have a dark humour like my self) and the police knock at your door because your humour has caused unintentional offence."
They’ve been arrested on suspiscion of a public order offence involving “threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour”, which can be committed by uploading material to the internet. Where that material is uploaded from irrelevant. I quite agree with you that this represents an excessive encroachment on freedom of speech.
Unfortunately there are now many criminal offences which rely heavily on the subjective interpretation of the victim.
Personally I don’t think there should be any right not to be offended, but sadly that seems to be the way things are going. Meanwhile we’ve had 5 stabbings in London in the space of a week. |
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"I'm intrested to see how the legal case works out in this case. Since it was done in the privacy of someone's home for their own amusement then it's hard for me to see why the charges against all of them could stick. Possibly the person who posted it to the internet. But even then that sounds a weak case and possibly a slippery slope depending on the context and intent of the posting onto the internet. I probably agree with everyone else that personally I found this sickening and it has caused some distress. But I would say think about how we use the law? People in glass houses spring to mind. What happens when one day the shoe is on the other foot (especially if you have a dark humour like my self) and the police knock at your door because your humour has caused unintentional offence.
They’ve been arrested on suspiscion of a public order offence involving “threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour”, which can be committed by uploading material to the internet. Where that material is uploaded from irrelevant. I quite agree with you that this represents an excessive encroachment on freedom of speech.
Unfortunately there are now many criminal offences which rely heavily on the subjective interpretation of the victim.
Personally I don’t think there should be any right not to be offended, but sadly that seems to be the way things are going. Meanwhile we’ve had 5 stabbings in London in the space of a week. "
Clearly we need the law to be more clear and less subjective around these issues. Currently we have laws that are potentially open to abuse and maybe just unwitting misuse due to high levels of ambiguity. As to this case the devil is in the detail so I will reserve my personal judgment till we know more details about the case and all the individuals involved. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I dont like that the police have scratched there haid to make up an offence dueto public pressure
Yes it was wrong but what kind of country is this becoming demolition man world is coming fast
Soon salt and sugar will be illigal as there bad for ya
No need to make anything up, it’s a clear cut section 5 public order offence. Displaying writing, signs, words or behaviour likely to cause harassment alarm or distress. Quite straight forward..
This whole website falls under it
No it doesn’t I’m afraid, it has to be in a public place. Hence the name. Public order act .
You don't have to be a member to read the forums, they're open to the public "
Going online to read something doesn’t fall under the public order act. |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"I dont like that the police have scratched there haid to make up an offence dueto public pressure
Yes it was wrong but what kind of country is this becoming demolition man world is coming fast
Soon salt and sugar will be illigal as there bad for ya
No need to make anything up, it’s a clear cut section 5 public order offence. Displaying writing, signs, words or behaviour likely to cause harassment alarm or distress. Quite straight forward..
This whole website falls under it
No it doesn’t I’m afraid, it has to be in a public place. Hence the name. Public order act .
You don't have to be a member to read the forums, they're open to the public
Going online to read something doesn’t fall under the public order act. "
Would anyone be outraged if either Jake and Dinos Chapman, Sasha Baron Cohen, Jimmy Carr or Frankie Boyle did or alluded to doing this? |
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It was extremely poor taste but I think the response to it has been just as bad, the modern equivalent of tarring and feathering over social media and now all the foamy mouthed newspapers on a white knight virtue signalling campaign to bring the full force of the law down on those responsible. They'll probably get a harsher punishment than those who fitted flammable cladding to the tower in the first place, not to mention that they've probably lost their jobs and won't be able to leave the house because of vigilantes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I dont like that the police have scratched there haid to make up an offence dueto public pressure
Yes it was wrong but what kind of country is this becoming demolition man world is coming fast
Soon salt and sugar will be illigal as there bad for ya
No need to make anything up, it’s a clear cut section 5 public order offence. Displaying writing, signs, words or behaviour likely to cause harassment alarm or distress. Quite straight forward..
This whole website falls under it
No it doesn’t I’m afraid, it has to be in a public place. Hence the name. Public order act .
You don't have to be a member to read the forums, they're open to the public
Going online to read something doesn’t fall under the public order act.
Would anyone be outraged if either Jake and Dinos Chapman, Sasha Baron Cohen, Jimmy Carr or Frankie Boyle did or alluded to doing this?"
You ask some stupid questions mate. Are you asking me if anybody in the world would be outraged by those people doing similar. I can’t speak for the whole world can I, don’t be so ridiculous. |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"What disgusts me more is that those responsible for the cladding and refurb have not been arrested yet"
That too isn't as cut and dried as you would like to think:
Does Architect check the product data sheet for said product and specifies it believing it to be so or doesn't bother to take due dilligence?
Has the supplier properly tested said product for the appropriate conditions or just made use of a generic like for like test data?
Are the products clearly marked to differentiate between fire rated and non fire rated versions of the product and was the correct version delivered to site?
Does contractor install as per the architects specification or substitute one product for another under the guise of "Value Engineering"?
Did the Building Control officer properly check all the documentation was in order before signing off on said alterations? |
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"I dont like that the police have scratched there haid to make up an offence dueto public pressure
Yes it was wrong but what kind of country is this becoming demolition man world is coming fast
Soon salt and sugar will be illigal as there bad for ya
No need to make anything up, it’s a clear cut section 5 public order offence. Displaying writing, signs, words or behaviour likely to cause harassment alarm or distress. Quite straight forward..
This whole website falls under it
No it doesn’t I’m afraid, it has to be in a public place. Hence the name. Public order act .
You don't have to be a member to read the forums, they're open to the public
Going online to read something doesn’t fall under the public order act.
Would anyone be outraged if either Jake and Dinos Chapman, Sasha Baron Cohen, Jimmy Carr or Frankie Boyle did or alluded to doing this?
You ask some stupid questions mate. Are you asking me if anybody in the world would be outraged by those people doing similar. I can’t speak for the whole world can I, don’t be so ridiculous. "
To be fair some of them have been know to tell some jokes very close to the edge and in a similar vain about all sorts of atrocious acts and sources of human misery. I don't see how it is a stretch of the imagination to see that many of our comedians and artists could end up the wrong side of the law.
For example the case of Chelsea Russell, 19. She put up a screen shot of some Snoop Dog lyrics in a genuine and heart felt tribute to a dead boy who died in a road accident. She was investigated by a specialist police hate crime unit. The main issuse seems to be Snoop Dogs use of the N word. Even though her defence pointed out it was common for performers such as Jay-Z to say the N word publicly at events such as Glastonbury. Yet the judge found her guilty. She now has a criminal record, was on tag for 8 weeks and fined over £500. Imagine how a hate crime on her criminal record will affect this young girls prospects? Is that fair considering she wished no ill intent and posted for honourable reasons? How was this young girl expected to think shed broke the law when many of her favourite artists are using the N word openly and not being arrested? Surely the law as it's stands open to abuse as it has already. And it begs the question is the law too vague, fair and is the way it's used always in the publics intrest? And if our expression can so easily fall the wrong side of the law what potential risk does this pose to our ability to express our selfs freely? |
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