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White Poppy Coward
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
I always donate to the red poppy appeal and last week saw a white poppy stand in a local library and gave to them also.
I now have a white poppy and red poppy. I attend a local Remembrance parade every year. I think by wearing the white poppy it might detract and possibly offend so I have decided not to wear it but I am still happy to have donated. Does that make me a white poppy coward ? |
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Free choice but I think you are doing the right thing in not wearing the white one at a Rememberance Parade and drawing attention to yourself unduly on what is a sombre occasion and quite an emotional one for some of those attending.
Nothing wrong with wearing your white one away from the parade |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Educate me. What's the meaning of the white one? I can't be botherd to use Google."
The white poppy is a flower used as a symbol of pacifism, worn as an alternative to the red remembrance poppy for Remembrance Day or Anzac Day |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Free choice but I think you are doing the right thing in not wearing the white one at a Rememberance Parade and drawing attention to yourself unduly on what is a sombre occasion and quite an emotional one for some of those attending.
Nothing wrong with wearing your white one away from the parade "
I think this is was written in a very civilised, respectful and sensitive way. Nice to see on fab xxx |
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"Educate me. What's the meaning of the white one? I can't be botherd to use Google."
Basically it's for pacifists who like to leech off everyone else's protection. They wanted the enemy dead, they just didn't want to get their own hands dirty. Quite appropriate for the people like Jeremy Corbyn who wear them. |
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By *good-being-badMan
over a year ago
mis-types and auto corrects leads cock leeds |
I wear a red poppy  in remembrance of the sacrifices made by many that give many folk the choice to wear other symbols.
The donations made to white poppy appeal (peace union) are used after costs to promote educate folk about peace and pacifism and don't go towards the rbl.
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When you read of the 63,000 men who died in just one day, how can anyone not be moved, angered, outraged at the senseless slaughter put upon the people of this land.
Lions..led by donkeys...Haig, I hope you are rotting in hell.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The white poppy remembers all those who have died in conflict. It was first introduced in 1933.
There are mixed feelings about it. "
This makes more sense, I'm going to have to google it now |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Where does the white poppy money go?"
Its a campaign and the money goes into the campaign where as the British legion use there money to support serving and ex service personal and there families
So why it's everyone individual choice and opinion it is my opinion as a serving soldier that we should all support the red poppy and the foreign legion and our personal
Peace will only follow when politics and religion dies and it never will so war will allways be a evil necessary so therefore spend your money supporting men and women and families who fight for your freedom |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When you read of the 63,000 men who died in just one day, how can anyone not be moved, angered, outraged at the senseless slaughter put upon the people of this land.
Lions..led by donkeys...Haig, I hope you are rotting in hell.."
 |
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"The white poppy remembers all those who have died in conflict. It was first introduced in 1933.
There are mixed feelings about it. "
Not really. They tried to claim that but it's really a smoke screen excuse. Most people do not have any ill will towards the vast majority of the dead on the losing sides. Their leaders, yes. But not the individual soldiers. We're not happy or glorifying their civilian deaths either like terrorist groups do. But we can't consider their cause equally valid, even though we know the soldiers of the losing sides were just fighting for their country. |
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I'm a red poppy kinda guy.
I wear it as a sign of respect to those who lost their lives on all sides.
I also respect those who choose to wear poppies of differing colours, or indeed no poppy at all.
Each to their own belief and compass. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Educate me. What's the meaning of the white one? I can't be botherd to use Google.
Basically it's for pacifists who like to leech off everyone else's protection. They wanted the enemy dead, they just didn't want to get their own hands dirty. Quite appropriate for the people like Jeremy Corbyn who wear them. "
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This is from the PPU website...
There are three elements to the meaning of white poppies: they represent remembrance for all victims of war, a commitment to peace and a challenge to attempts to glamorise or celebrate war. |
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Even the RBL says you should be free to wear whichever you choose (or none).
I wear a red one, but I respect the aims of the PPU, and it’s history is almost as long as that of the RBL. The work it supports is directly related to what many who survived WWI wanted its outcome to be - an end to war. Those who choose to ‘shame’ people over this could do with a good dose of history, but sadly I doubt their interested. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I always donate to the red poppy appeal and last week saw a white poppy stand in a local library and gave to them also.
I now have a white poppy and red poppy. I attend a local Remembrance parade every year. I think by wearing the white poppy it might detract and possibly offend so I have decided not to wear it but I am still happy to have donated. Does that make me a white poppy coward ?"
No just sensible and considerate to others. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I always donate to the red poppy appeal and last week saw a white poppy stand in a local library and gave to them also.
I now have a white poppy and red poppy. I attend a local Remembrance parade every year. I think by wearing the white poppy it might detract and possibly offend so I have decided not to wear it but I am still happy to have donated. Does that make me a white poppy coward ?
No just sensible and considerate to others. "
the white one is equally valid, its aims and ambitions more valid. But doesn't really belong in the parade. |
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"This is from the PPU website...
There are three elements to the meaning of white poppies: they represent remembrance for all victims of war, a commitment to peace and a challenge to attempts to glamorise or celebrate war."
No more than wearing a white poppy gamorises being a coward |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
No more than wearing a white poppy gamorises being a coward
I watched a movie called Hacksaw Ridge. Only after watching did I research it and find that not only was it true and factual but that the main character was the an incredibly brave human being. He was also a pacifist. It is one incredible story. Look for Desmond Doss. He was no coward
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This is from the PPU website...
There are three elements to the meaning of white poppies: they represent remembrance for all victims of war, a commitment to peace and a challenge to attempts to glamorise or celebrate war.
No more than wearing a white poppy gamorises being a coward "
Im sure you mean glamorise but you're wrong ..again
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"
No more than wearing a white poppy gamorises being a coward
I watched a movie called Hacksaw Ridge. Only after watching did I research it and find that not only was it true and factual but that the main character was the an incredibly brave human being. He was also a pacifist. It is one incredible story. Look for Desmond Doss. He was no coward
"
I have personal experience of both sides. One grandfather who did his duty like a man and one who stayed home like the coward he is. I've listen to every cock and bull story he's invented to try and justify it. It's pathetic.
As humans, we evolved in communities where people relied upon each other. Shame has always and will always perform a vital role in ensuring people pull their weight in our mutually dependant system. Therefore, it is our moral obligation to shame those who free load. |
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By *ensualbicockMan
over a year ago
liverpool wavertree picton clock |
If every man/ women who fought was a supposed coward , I suppose it would never have happened ..that's sounds a lot better to me ....plus to stand up for your principles and be lead to a firing squad seems quite brave to me also |
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"
No more than wearing a white poppy gamorises being a coward
I watched a movie called Hacksaw Ridge. Only after watching did I research it and find that not only was it true and factual but that the main character was the an incredibly brave human being. He was also a pacifist. It is one incredible story. Look for Desmond Doss. He was no coward
I have personal experience of both sides. One grandfather who did his duty like a man and one who stayed home like the coward he is. I've listen to every cock and bull story he's invented to try and justify it. It's pathetic.
As humans, we evolved in communities where people relied upon each other. Shame has always and will always perform a vital role in ensuring people pull their weight in our mutually dependant system. Therefore, it is our moral obligation to shame those who free load. "
So a German who refused to fight in 1940 because he disagreed with the goals of the German government would have been a coward and a freeloader? |
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"
No more than wearing a white poppy gamorises being a coward
I watched a movie called Hacksaw Ridge. Only after watching did I research it and find that not only was it true and factual but that the main character was the an incredibly brave human being. He was also a pacifist. It is one incredible story. Look for Desmond Doss. He was no coward
I have personal experience of both sides. One grandfather who did his duty like a man and one who stayed home like the coward he is. I've listen to every cock and bull story he's invented to try and justify it. It's pathetic.
As humans, we evolved in communities where people relied upon each other. Shame has always and will always perform a vital role in ensuring people pull their weight in our mutually dependant system. Therefore, it is our moral obligation to shame those who free load.
So a German who refused to fight in 1940 because he disagreed with the goals of the German government would have been a coward and a freeloader? "
Does he want to live in a post-war victorious German state? |
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"
No more than wearing a white poppy gamorises being a coward
I watched a movie called Hacksaw Ridge. Only after watching did I research it and find that not only was it true and factual but that the main character was the an incredibly brave human being. He was also a pacifist. It is one incredible story. Look for Desmond Doss. He was no coward
I have personal experience of both sides. One grandfather who did his duty like a man and one who stayed home like the coward he is. I've listen to every cock and bull story he's invented to try and justify it. It's pathetic.
As humans, we evolved in communities where people relied upon each other. Shame has always and will always perform a vital role in ensuring people pull their weight in our mutually dependant system. Therefore, it is our moral obligation to shame those who free load.
So a German who refused to fight in 1940 because he disagreed with the goals of the German government would have been a coward and a freeloader?
Does he want to live in a post-war victorious German state? "
Well he doesn't agree with nazism so he's not terribly keen on the nazis winning the war.
Is he a coward and freeloader?
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I never wear a poppy for many reasons, nor will veteran Harry Leslie Smith.
Nor indeed will many veterans who now realise what is really going on. "A day that should be about peace and remembrance is turned into a month-long drum-roll of support for current wars. The true horror and futility of war is forgotten and ignored," they write.
Poppy-wearing, especially by public officials, has come to be associated with the corruption and deceptiveness of behavioural politics. It is almost offensive that members of the British administration who wear poppies have at the same time sent young men and women to fight and die in futile wars. Shrouded in the powerful narrative of righteous heroism, the poppy of remembrance has sadly been hijacked by an establishment dedicated to glorifying nationalistic wars; it has become a kind of camouflage for the egotistical military interests of successive governments. |
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"Educate me. What's the meaning of the white one? I can't be botherd to use Google.
Basically it's for pacifists who like to leech off everyone else's protection. They wanted the enemy dead, they just didn't want to get their own hands dirty. Quite appropriate for the people like Jeremy Corbyn who wear them. "
Oh, very open minded...... |
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"
So a German who refused to fight in 1940 because he disagreed with the goals of the German government would have been a coward and a freeloader?
Does he want to live in a post-war victorious German state?
Well he doesn't agree with nazism so he's not terribly keen on the nazis winning the war.
Is he a coward and freeloader?
"
Depends on his choices. If he doesn't agree with Nazism then he should go join the fight against it. Do a non-combat role if it helps him sleep at night. But don't sit on your ass enjoying the benefits of the German state whilst saying how awful it is. |
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"Educate me. What's the meaning of the white one? I can't be botherd to use Google.
Basically it's for pacifists who like to leech off everyone else's protection. They wanted the enemy dead, they just didn't want to get their own hands dirty. Quite appropriate for the people like Jeremy Corbyn who wear them.
Oh, very open minded......"
By open minded you mean open to bullshit. |
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"
So a German who refused to fight in 1940 because he disagreed with the goals of the German government would have been a coward and a freeloader?
Does he want to live in a post-war victorious German state?
Well he doesn't agree with nazism so he's not terribly keen on the nazis winning the war.
Is he a coward and freeloader?
Depends on his choices. If he doesn't agree with Nazism then he should go join the fight against it. Do a non-combat role if it helps him sleep at night. But don't sit on your ass enjoying the benefits of the German state whilst saying how awful it is. "
Blimey.
So no matter how oppressive a state is, you're obliged to fight on its behalf unless you actively resist it? |
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"Educate me. What's the meaning of the white one? I can't be botherd to use Google.
The white poppy is a flower used as a symbol of pacifism, worn as an alternative to the red remembrance poppy for Remembrance Day or Anzac Day"
I don't have an issue with folks buying both. Both entail remembrance, but the white one is primarily political, where as the red ome provides funds to help veterans and their families when in need, in monetary, physical or mental hardship. |
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"
So a German who refused to fight in 1940 because he disagreed with the goals of the German government would have been a coward and a freeloader?
Does he want to live in a post-war victorious German state?
Well he doesn't agree with nazism so he's not terribly keen on the nazis winning the war.
Is he a coward and freeloader?
Depends on his choices. If he doesn't agree with Nazism then he should go join the fight against it. Do a non-combat role if it helps him sleep at night. But don't sit on your ass enjoying the benefits of the German state whilst saying how awful it is.
Blimey.
So no matter how oppressive a state is, you're obliged to fight on its behalf unless you actively resist it? "
You introduced Nazism as the example. There is no middle ground between our values and those of Nazism. So i return to my own personal experience, my grandfather hated everything the Nazis stood for - he just wanted someone else to pull the trigger. He is alive today because other people fought for his country and won (e.g. my other grandfather). He did nothing to contribute to that achievement, in fact he was a small burden because he ate rations that could have gone to someone doing something useful. Had the Nazis won, they would have killed him in a heartbeat and his stupid little protest wouldn't even be a footnote in a textbook. It's the clearest example of free loading you could wish for. |
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"
So a German who refused to fight in 1940 because he disagreed with the goals of the German government would have been a coward and a freeloader?
Does he want to live in a post-war victorious German state?
Well he doesn't agree with nazism so he's not terribly keen on the nazis winning the war.
Is he a coward and freeloader?
Depends on his choices. If he doesn't agree with Nazism then he should go join the fight against it. Do a non-combat role if it helps him sleep at night. But don't sit on your ass enjoying the benefits of the German state whilst saying how awful it is.
Blimey.
So no matter how oppressive a state is, you're obliged to fight on its behalf unless you actively resist it?
You introduced Nazism as the example. There is no middle ground between our values and those of Nazism. So i return to my own personal experience, my grandfather hated everything the Nazis stood for - he just wanted someone else to pull the trigger. He is alive today because other people fought for his country and won (e.g. my other grandfather). He did nothing to contribute to that achievement, in fact he was a small burden because he ate rations that could have gone to someone doing something useful. Had the Nazis won, they would have killed him in a heartbeat and his stupid little protest wouldn't even be a footnote in a textbook. It's the clearest example of free loading you could wish for. "
Forget your grandad, we're talking about the general principle as to whether it is ever morally justified to refuse to fight for a government.
I understood your point to be anyone who refused to fight was a coward and a freeloader. I gave an example where someone refusing to fight would, in most people's view, be brave and principled.
If you accept that it would be morally justifiable for someone in nazi Germany to refuse to fight, then you are accepting the principle that in some circumstances it is justifiable in some circumstances to refuse to fight when called up.
If you don't accept that, then you are putting the duty to fight for an existing government (whatever it's nature) above any other principle. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I always wear a red poppy and a purple one. Didn’t know you could get white ones.
I'm stupid what's the purple poppy story?"
You really should use google but as you can't be arsed its for the animals |
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"
So a German who refused to fight in 1940 because he disagreed with the goals of the German government would have been a coward and a freeloader?
Does he want to live in a post-war victorious German state?
Well he doesn't agree with nazism so he's not terribly keen on the nazis winning the war.
Is he a coward and freeloader?
Depends on his choices. If he doesn't agree with Nazism then he should go join the fight against it. Do a non-combat role if it helps him sleep at night. But don't sit on your ass enjoying the benefits of the German state whilst saying how awful it is.
Blimey.
So no matter how oppressive a state is, you're obliged to fight on its behalf unless you actively resist it?
You introduced Nazism as the example. There is no middle ground between our values and those of Nazism. So i return to my own personal experience, my grandfather hated everything the Nazis stood for - he just wanted someone else to pull the trigger. He is alive today because other people fought for his country and won (e.g. my other grandfather). He did nothing to contribute to that achievement, in fact he was a small burden because he ate rations that could have gone to someone doing something useful. Had the Nazis won, they would have killed him in a heartbeat and his stupid little protest wouldn't even be a footnote in a textbook. It's the clearest example of free loading you could wish for.
Forget your grandad, we're talking about the general principle as to whether it is ever morally justified to refuse to fight for a government.
I understood your point to be anyone who refused to fight was a coward and a freeloader. I gave an example where someone refusing to fight would, in most people's view, be brave and principled.
If you accept that it would be morally justifiable for someone in nazi Germany to refuse to fight, then you are accepting the principle that in some circumstances it is justifiable in some circumstances to refuse to fight when called up.
If you don't accept that, then you are putting the duty to fight for an existing government (whatever it's nature) above any other principle. "
Well there we're into subjective opinions. Are we agreed that free loading is not worthy of praise and respect?
If you're asking if I admire an Oskar Schindler, then yes I do. There were ~10,000 Germans who fled Germany and fought for the allies and I admire them too. Remind me what the Nazis did to conscientious objectors? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
No more than wearing a white poppy gamorises being a coward
I watched a movie called Hacksaw Ridge. Only after watching did I research it and find that not only was it true and factual but that the main character was the an incredibly brave human being. He was also a pacifist. It is one incredible story. Look for Desmond Doss. He was no coward
I have personal experience of both sides. One grandfather who did his duty like a man and one who stayed home like the coward he is. I've listen to every cock and bull story he's invented to try and justify it. It's pathetic.
As humans, we evolved in communities where people relied upon each other. Shame has always and will always perform a vital role in ensuring people pull their weight in our mutually dependant system. Therefore, it is our moral obligation to shame those who free load. "
No you do not have personal experience...your two relatives did.
Unless you are actually in that situation you know nothing. Your comments are only what you think you would do but you can never know...
Easy for people in 2018 to say what they would or would not do back in 1914-18 or 1939-45. The fact is they had conscription which is something you will never have to be faced with.....
I will await your customary "glad you got that off your chest" comeback.....and yes I am glad.
What was it you said to me the other "your 45 and still cannot see that not everyone is the same as you". Such hypocrisy!!!!
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" have personal experience of both sides. One grandfather who did his duty like a man and one who stayed home like the coward he is. I've listen to every cock and bull story he's invented to try and justify it. It's pathetic."
Maybe he ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong ... They never called him nigger. |
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Every time Pacifism is mentioned you can guarantee someone will trot out the"well would you rather have let the Nazis win?" argument.
It's a lazy and obtuse response.
Pacifism means "the belief that war and violence are unjustifiable and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means"
That is a universal aim. It isn't about one side refusing to fight so the other side can walk all over them.
I have huge respect for the ordinary folk who have fought in conflicts across history and across the globe.
However I don't see any value or glory in continued warmongering therefore I support pacifism.
If that makes me a "coward" and a "freeloader" in your eyes, I won't be losing any sleep over it.
I support peace over war.
I would have thought most sane people would too. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I always wear a red poppy and a purple one. Didn’t know you could get white ones.
I'm stupid what's the purple poppy story?
You really should use google but as you can't be arsed its for the animals "
Thanks.  |
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"
No more than wearing a white poppy gamorises being a coward
I watched a movie called Hacksaw Ridge. Only after watching did I research it and find that not only was it true and factual but that the main character was the an incredibly brave human being. He was also a pacifist. It is one incredible story. Look for Desmond Doss. He was no coward
I have personal experience of both sides. One grandfather who did his duty like a man and one who stayed home like the coward he is. I've listen to every cock and bull story he's invented to try and justify it. It's pathetic.
As humans, we evolved in communities where people relied upon each other. Shame has always and will always perform a vital role in ensuring people pull their weight in our mutually dependant system. Therefore, it is our moral obligation to shame those who free load.
No you do not have personal experience...your two relatives did.
Unless you are actually in that situation you know nothing. Your comments are only what you think you would do but you can never know...
Easy for people in 2018 to say what they would or would not do back in 1914-18 or 1939-45. The fact is they had conscription which is something you will never have to be faced with.....
I will await your customary "glad you got that off your chest" comeback.....and yes I am glad.
What was it you said to me the other "your 45 and still cannot see that not everyone is the same as you". Such hypocrisy!!!!
"
Are you aware of the difference between a priori knowledge and a posteriori knowledge? I ask because you post is failing to distinguish between them.
What I am claiming is that I've had a very long time to listen to every excuse my grandfather could think of, I've been able to ask questions and look in his eyes as he says them. He's even written a book about being a conscientious objector. My conclusion after a lot of time and discussion is that he's talking shit and making excuses for being a scared. That's obviously not the conclusion I would want to reach because i do love him and he has many good qualities. But i am ashamed of that choice he made and he shamed our family with it. I hope my son never directly asks me if that great grandfather fought in the war. At least he has 3 others that did. |
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"Every time Pacifism is mentioned you can guarantee someone will trot out the"well would you rather have let the Nazis win?" argument.
It's a lazy and obtuse response.
Pacifism means "the belief that war and violence are unjustifiable and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means"
That is a universal aim. It isn't about one side refusing to fight so the other side can walk all over them.
I have huge respect for the ordinary folk who have fought in conflicts across history and across the globe.
However I don't see any value or glory in continued warmongering therefore I support pacifism.
If that makes me a "coward" and a "freeloader" in your eyes, I won't be losing any sleep over it.
I support peace over war.
I would have thought most sane people would too."
What's lazy and obtuse is to describe circumstances that have never been achieved in 300,000 years of human history and pass that off as an excuse for not doing anything when the peaceful means of conflict resolution had been done to death. Pun intended.
If you'd care to read some facts on the matter, Adam Tooze wrote a masterpiece on how easily Hitler could have been defeated as late as 1937 if we hadn't been fucking around with appeasement in the first place. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I often never used to wear a poppy, as it is Royal British legion, which theirs nothing wrong with of course.
It’s just that I often chose to donate to my old regiment (s) associations and wore their badge instead.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Someone is entitled to their opinion, I happen to think they make a very good point. If you refuse to fight for whatever reason after being asked while others around you do, then you are letting them down. If we all took that approach then there would be no one to fight for us, which even the most narrow minded must see as being a problem. To introduce a different coloured poppy is to say there something wrong with the red one, or why make the distinction? That is in itself offensive and as someone who attends some of these services not only would I, but I believe a lot of the people attending these would find it offensive. Might be worth thinking about |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I bought 3 badges on Sunday the traditional red, a gold one and a white one. All these bought from British legion person.
I didn’t know difference in meaning till read this makes sense why my mum looked shocked when I said had a white one, but is it the same meaning as other ones I’ve seen as it’s sold by the British legion??? |
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" But i am ashamed of that choice he made and he shamed our family with it.
Do you think Lionel Charlton shamed his family too?
Was he a conscientious objector? "
He was a coward and a freeloader apparently... |
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" But i am ashamed of that choice he made and he shamed our family with it.
Do you think Lionel Charlton shamed his family too?
Was he a conscientious objector?
He was a coward and a freeloader apparently..."
So that's a no then |
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" But i am ashamed of that choice he made and he shamed our family with it.
Do you think Lionel Charlton shamed his family too?
Was he a conscientious objector?
He was a coward and a freeloader apparently...
So that's a no then "
Do you think he brought shame on his family? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I bought 3 badges on Sunday the traditional red, a gold one and a white one. All these bought from British legion person.
I didn’t know difference in meaning till read this makes sense why my mum looked shocked when I said had a white one, but is it the same meaning as other ones I’ve seen as it’s sold by the British legion???"
It is a peace poppy..
It not celebrating cowards or conscientious objectors..
They represent remembrance to ALL victims of war and are just as valid as the red and purple poppies |
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" But i am ashamed of that choice he made and he shamed our family with it.
Do you think Lionel Charlton shamed his family too?
Was he a conscientious objector?
He was a coward and a freeloader apparently...
So that's a no then
Do you think he brought shame on his family?"
Explain to me why I should based on anything I've said? I'm only avoiding answering because it's a non sequitur, not because the answer isn't obvious. |
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" But i am ashamed of that choice he made and he shamed our family with it.
Do you think Lionel Charlton shamed his family too?
Was he a conscientious objector?
He was a coward and a freeloader apparently...
So that's a no then
Do you think he brought shame on his family?
Explain to me why I should based on anything I've said? I'm only avoiding answering because it's a non sequitur, not because the answer isn't obvious. "
You've stated that in your opinion anyone who refuses to go to war is a coward a freeloader and brings shame on their family, so would you concur that Lionel Charlton is a coward a freeloader and brought shame on his family? It's a simple yes or no |
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" But i am ashamed of that choice he made and he shamed our family with it.
Do you think Lionel Charlton shamed his family too?
Was he a conscientious objector?
He was a coward and a freeloader apparently...
So that's a no then
Do you think he brought shame on his family?
Explain to me why I should based on anything I've said? I'm only avoiding answering because it's a non sequitur, not because the answer isn't obvious.
You've stated that in your opinion anyone who refuses to go to war is a coward a freeloader and brings shame on their family, so would you concur that Lionel Charlton is a coward a freeloader and brought shame on his family? It's a simple yes or no"
But it's non sequitur as he didn't refuse to go to war |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" But i am ashamed of that choice he made and he shamed our family with it.
Do you think Lionel Charlton shamed his family too?
Was he a conscientious objector?
He was a coward and a freeloader apparently...
So that's a no then
Do you think he brought shame on his family?"
Was there not a move to clear literally hundreds of soldiers who were shot for cowardice as it’s beleived many who refused to go back to the front were suffering from serious mental trauma?
They must of been terrified enough to face a firing squad rather than fight.
They would of know that happened, the military police in WW1 would arbitrarily execute anyone going the wrong way. |
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By *etLikeMan
over a year ago
most fundamental aspects |
"
It is a peace poppy..
It not celebrating cowards or conscientious objectors..
They represent remembrance to ALL victims of war and are just as valid as the red and purple poppies "
This ^
Those affected by war do not need to have had a gun in their hand to have been seen as heros. Anne Frank hid but do we call her a coward? No we cerlebrate her resistance. The women who were not directly involved, yet had to manage a family alone and do their bit for the war effort.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" But i am ashamed of that choice he made and he shamed our family with it.
Do you think Lionel Charlton shamed his family too?
Was he a conscientious objector?
He was a coward and a freeloader apparently...
So that's a no then
Do you think he brought shame on his family?
Explain to me why I should based on anything I've said? I'm only avoiding answering because it's a non sequitur, not because the answer isn't obvious.
You've stated that in your opinion anyone who refuses to go to war is a coward a freeloader and brings shame on their family, so would you concur that Lionel Charlton is a coward a freeloader and brought shame on his family? It's a simple yes or no
But it's non sequitur as he didn't refuse to go to war "
A fair few conciencious objectors in a few wars worked as stretcher bearers, medics, etc. The Royal Army Medical Corps has more VC recipients than any other regiment or corps. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
RE: OP Post. Whomever you donate to is up to you. The donation says a lot in itself so don’t worry too much about populist views etc
Also - Answers please...
What is the difference between a Hero a Coward?
I’ll provide “my” answer |
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"Where does the white poppy money go?
"Any money raised over and above the cost of producing, publicising and distributing the white poppies goes to fund our education work""
Perhaps I am being totally naive and cynical, but isn't peace a no brainer and doesn't need to ride on the back of a legitimately good cause.
Educating peace is a little like pissing in the sea, it just ain't gonna make the slightest bit of difference...
The types that cause conflicts are war mongering murderers and probably not likely to go to a peace convention or read a flier suggesting a better way of life..
My personal opinion is wear a CND badge in place of the white poppy and stick an extra pound in the red poppy collection where it can do far more good for those who have made the sacrifice for us and others around the world so they, like us can appreciate the freedom that we take for granted. |
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" But i am ashamed of that choice he made and he shamed our family with it.
Do you think Lionel Charlton shamed his family too?
Was he a conscientious objector?
He was a coward and a freeloader apparently...
So that's a no then
Do you think he brought shame on his family?
Explain to me why I should based on anything I've said? I'm only avoiding answering because it's a non sequitur, not because the answer isn't obvious.
You've stated that in your opinion anyone who refuses to go to war is a coward a freeloader and brings shame on their family, so would you concur that Lionel Charlton is a coward a freeloader and brought shame on his family? It's a simple yes or no
But it's non sequitur as he didn't refuse to go to war
A fair few conciencious objectors in a few wars worked as stretcher bearers, medics, etc. The Royal Army Medical Corps has more VC recipients than any other regiment or corps. "
A conscientious objector refuses to serve in the armed forces. Those sound like pacifists who asked to do non-combat roles. My issue is with free loaders. Non combat roles are not free loading. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
No more than wearing a white poppy gamorises being a coward
I watched a movie called Hacksaw Ridge. Only after watching did I research it and find that not only was it true and factual but that the main character was the an incredibly brave human being. He was also a pacifist. It is one incredible story. Look for Desmond Doss. He was no coward
I have personal experience of both sides. One grandfather who did his duty like a man and one who stayed home like the coward he is. I've listen to every cock and bull story he's invented to try and justify it. It's pathetic.
As humans, we evolved in communities where people relied upon each other. Shame has always and will always perform a vital role in ensuring people pull their weight in our mutually dependant system. Therefore, it is our moral obligation to shame those who free load. "
Is this a spoof?? |
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"Where does the white poppy money go?
"Any money raised over and above the cost of producing, publicising and distributing the white poppies goes to fund our education work"
Perhaps I am being totally naive and cynical, but isn't peace a no brainer and doesn't need to ride on the back of a legitimately good cause.
Educating peace is a little like pissing in the sea, it just ain't gonna make the slightest bit of difference...
The types that cause conflicts are war mongering murderers and probably not likely to go to a peace convention or read a flier suggesting a better way of life..
My personal opinion is wear a CND badge in place of the white poppy and stick an extra pound in the red poppy collection where it can do far more good for those who have made the sacrifice for us and others around the world so they, like us can appreciate the freedom that we take for granted."
MP and former soldier Johnny Mercer agrees with you |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I wear a red poppy because it’s what I’ve always known and although my dad survived 30+ years in the armed forces (regular and reserve) some of his friends didn’t and I wear it for my dad. However I respect the cause of the white poppy. Most military folk are pacifists who do a job because somebody has to do it. The people that red poppy represent, died so that people can have the choice to do what they want. |
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" But i am ashamed of that choice he made and he shamed our family with it.
Do you think Lionel Charlton shamed his family too?
Was he a conscientious objector?
He was a coward and a freeloader apparently...
So that's a no then
Do you think he brought shame on his family?
Explain to me why I should based on anything I've said? I'm only avoiding answering because it's a non sequitur, not because the answer isn't obvious.
You've stated that in your opinion anyone who refuses to go to war is a coward a freeloader and brings shame on their family, so would you concur that Lionel Charlton is a coward a freeloader and brought shame on his family? It's a simple yes or no
But it's non sequitur as he didn't refuse to go to war
A fair few conciencious objectors in a few wars worked as stretcher bearers, medics, etc. The Royal Army Medical Corps has more VC recipients than any other regiment or corps.
A conscientious objector refuses to serve in the armed forces. Those sound like pacifists who asked to do non-combat roles. My issue is with free loaders. Non combat roles are not free loading. "
Air Commodore Lionel Charlton, CB CMG DSO resigned and returned to the UK...what a fucking coward |
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"Educate me. What's the meaning of the white one? I can't be botherd to use Google.
Basically it's for pacifists who like to leech off everyone else's protection. They wanted the enemy dead, they just didn't want to get their own hands dirty. Quite appropriate for the people like Jeremy Corbyn who wear them.
Oh, very open minded......
By open minded you mean open to bullshit. "
No, I said "open minded" and open minded is what I meant. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I thought this thread was about poppy colours??
If you were to pay for a polka dot poppy surely the payment defines the support??
Millions died. We surely all agree their sacrifice will never be forgotten.
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"Educate me. What's the meaning of the white one? I can't be botherd to use Google.
Basically it's for pacifists who like to leech off everyone else's protection. They wanted the enemy dead, they just didn't want to get their own hands dirty. Quite appropriate for the people like Jeremy Corbyn who wear them.
Oh, very open minded......
By open minded you mean open to bullshit.
No, I said "open minded" and open minded is what I meant."
But why do you think open minded is inherently good? Do you think physicists should be open minded towards flat earthers? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Educate me. What's the meaning of the white one? I can't be botherd to use Google.
Basically it's for pacifists who like to leech off everyone else's protection. They wanted the enemy dead, they just didn't want to get their own hands dirty. Quite appropriate for the people like Jeremy Corbyn who wear them. "
Do army personnel not get paid?? |
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"Educate me. What's the meaning of the white one? I can't be botherd to use Google.
Basically it's for pacifists who like to leech off everyone else's protection. They wanted the enemy dead, they just didn't want to get their own hands dirty. Quite appropriate for the people like Jeremy Corbyn who wear them.
Do army personnel not get paid??"
How much is a human life worth? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Educate me. What's the meaning of the white one? I can't be botherd to use Google.
Basically it's for pacifists who like to leech off everyone else's protection. They wanted the enemy dead, they just didn't want to get their own hands dirty. Quite appropriate for the people like Jeremy Corbyn who wear them.
Do army personnel not get paid??
How much is a human life worth? "
According to your rationale nothing!!
Pacifists and freeloader leeches who don’t want to get their hands dirty are surely unworthy of the air they breath in your view??
I’ll put it this way.
Do you think those freeloaders and pacifist leeches should be terminated post war for their non engagement in military action that “protected them”? |
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"Oh and don’t call concientious objectors cowards. Watch Hacksaw Ridge. It’s based on a true story and there were plenty of examples of people like him. "
conscientious objector, noun
a person who for reasons of conscience objects to serving in the armed forces
Hacksaw Ridge is a about a person serving in the American military. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh and don’t call concientious objectors cowards. Watch Hacksaw Ridge. It’s based on a true story and there were plenty of examples of people like him.
conscientious objector, noun
a person who for reasons of conscience objects to serving in the armed forces
Hacksaw Ridge is a about a person serving in the American military. "
For the record..
My uncle served 25 years in the military retiring as a Sargent Major.
He joined because he couldn’t get any other job. He served in 4 tours of NI and to quote him “sat on his arse getting paid to do fuck all in Cyprus for 10 years”.
WW1 and WW2 aside... it’s a job |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh and don’t call concientious objectors cowards. Watch Hacksaw Ridge. It’s based on a true story and there were plenty of examples of people like him.
conscientious objector, noun
a person who for reasons of conscience objects to serving in the armed forces
Hacksaw Ridge is a about a person serving in the American military. "
And there are similar examples in pretty much all sides of conflict. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I wear a poppy out of respect for the dead.
The money goes to support those who served and still do.
I don't wear a poppy to show my support for war, as I don't support it.
It's also not a political symbol. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I wear a poppy out of respect for the dead.
The money goes to support those who served and still do.
I don't wear a poppy to show my support for war, as I don't support it.
It's also not a political symbol. "
well said |
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Having stood at the Menin gate for the Last Post and visiting many sites across Ypres, the Somme, Arras, Vimy Ridge etc etc, I finally came to my Great Uncles grave in The Cement House cemetery, he was cut down by machine gun during an attempt to take it to stop the slaughter that was happening because it had them pinned down. It was a full on frontal assault suicide mission and he was shot through the head on the 9th October 1917 aged 24.
I found it extremely moving and it made me think a great deal. My Nan could never travel to her brothers grave as she never had the means way back then, so I said hello from her too
My mate put a quid on the grave to buy him a pint.
Red poppy for me. |
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"Having stood at the Menin gate for the Last Post and visiting many sites across Ypres, the Somme, Arras, Vimy Ridge etc etc, I finally came to my Great Uncles grave in The Cement House cemetery, he was cut down by machine gun during an attempt to take it to stop the slaughter that was happening because it had them pinned down. It was a full on frontal assault suicide mission and he was shot through the head on the 9th October 1917 aged 24.
I found it extremely moving and it made me think a great deal. My Nan could never travel to her brothers grave as she never had the means way back then, so I said hello from her too
My mate put a quid on the grave to buy him a pint.
Red poppy for me. "
I've visited the concentration camps. A truly humbling experience that should be mandatory in my opinion. Try going there and telling me there's a peaceful solution to our differences. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Brokenbrilliance... Where have you gone??
Slaughtering conscientious objectors??
War is horrific and to be avoided at all costs. Almost £100m people died as a result of WW1 and WW2 alone.
Lest we forget. |
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"Brokenbrilliance... Where have you gone??
Slaughtering conscientious objectors??
War is horrific and to be avoided at all costs. Almost £100m people died as a result of WW1 and WW2 alone.
Lest we forget. "
Yeah that was such a dumb question that it didn't need answering. Thanks for the Freudian slip about the dead being worth £100m but id put a much higher value on it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Brokenbrilliance... Where have you gone??
Slaughtering conscientious objectors??
War is horrific and to be avoided at all costs. Almost £100m people died as a result of WW1 and WW2 alone.
Lest we forget.
Yeah that was such a dumb question that it didn't need answering. Thanks for the Freudian slip about the dead being worth £100m but id put a much higher value on it. "
It was a typo for the record.
Btw... are you in the military?? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"I always donate to the red poppy appeal and last week saw a white poppy stand in a local library and gave to them also.
I now have a white poppy and red poppy. I attend a local Remembrance parade every year. I think by wearing the white poppy it might detract and possibly offend so I have decided not to wear it but I am still happy to have donated. Does that make me a white poppy coward ?"
If you think wearing a "badge" is more important than giving money to cause, you have lost sight of what it is all about.
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WHyde do these forums turn from what should be a debate on what is a poignant subject to an all out slanging match?
This is the perfect example why as humans peace comes at a cost..
That cost being human life..
Conflicts start for two reasons alone, greed or religion...
As long as their are those that will use illegal means for their own gain or those willing to fight because their god is better than anyone else's, there will always be wars...
The whole white poppy thing just seems a little crass being around the same time as rememberence Sunday and the whole red poppy appeal. . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" have personal experience of both sides. One grandfather who did his duty like a man and one who stayed home like the coward he is. I've listen to every cock and bull story he's invented to try and justify it. It's pathetic.
Maybe he ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong ... They never called him nigger."
I hear you |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I choose not to take a poppy when I donate, my grandfather fought in the 1st world war, got a tray full of medals, but refused to talk about it, and refused to wear a poppy. So I don't either. |
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By *ensualbicockMan
over a year ago
liverpool wavertree picton clock |
"Cassius Clay was a fearless boxer and cc ertainly no coward..he refused to fight in Vietnam.
Not wanting to participate in war is not always cowardice
No Viet Cong called me a N."
Nail ...head |
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"Cassius Clay was a fearless boxer and cc ertainly no coward..he refused to fight in Vietnam.
Not wanting to participate in war is not always cowardice
No Viet Cong called me a N.
Nail ...head "
Sure, because why would anyone have a quarrel with Hitler and the Nazis  |
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By *ensualbicockMan
over a year ago
liverpool wavertree picton clock |
"Cassius Clay was a fearless boxer and cc ertainly no coward..he refused to fight in Vietnam.
Not wanting to participate in war is not always cowardice
No Viet Cong called me a N.
Nail ...head
Sure, because why would anyone have a quarrel with Hitler and the Nazis "
Are you really bored mate ?...coz your talking absolute shat !! |
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By *ensualbicockMan
over a year ago
liverpool wavertree picton clock |
"Cassius Clay was a fearless boxer and cc ertainly no coward..he refused to fight in Vietnam.
Not wanting to participate in war is not always cowardice
No Viet Cong called me a N.
Nail ...head
Sure, because why would anyone have a quarrel with Hitler and the Nazis
Are you really bored mate ?...coz your talking absolute shat !!"
Feel free to answer it I'm going for a spliff now  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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veterans for peace always lay a wreath of white poppies at the cenotaph ... it comes accross as an extremely strong message of their values that have been shaped by their experiences |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Cassius Clay was a fearless boxer and cc ertainly no coward..he refused to fight in Vietnam.
Not wanting to participate in war is not always cowardice
No Viet Cong called me a N.
Nail ...head
Sure, because why would anyone have a quarrel with Hitler and the Nazis "
Pretty sure you got your wars mixed up!
I have no quarrel with Hitler, he was dead long before I was born. Quite pointless to argue with a corpse.
|
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"Cassius Clay was a fearless boxer and cc ertainly no coward..he refused to fight in Vietnam.
Not wanting to participate in war is not always cowardice
No Viet Cong called me a N.
Nail ...head
Sure, because why would anyone have a quarrel with Hitler and the Nazis
Pretty sure you got your wars mixed up!
I have no quarrel with Hitler, he was dead long before I was born. Quite pointless to argue with a corpse.
"
Really? Remembrance day is about the Vietnam war is it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Cassius Clay was a fearless boxer and cc ertainly no coward..he refused to fight in Vietnam.
Not wanting to participate in war is not always cowardice
No Viet Cong called me a N.
Nail ...head
Sure, because why would anyone have a quarrel with Hitler and the Nazis
Pretty sure you got your wars mixed up!
I have no quarrel with Hitler, he was dead long before I was born. Quite pointless to argue with a corpse.
Really? Remembrance day is about the Vietnam war is it? "
for members of her majesties australian army of course it is .... why wouldn't it be? |
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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
I wear my poppy with pride to remember not only my Grandad but also all the others who gave so much.
I also defend the right of anyone brave enough to stand up and say they don't believe in a conflict or a cause bought about by those in power in the face of being branded a coward for doing so.
Despite the attempts by some on this thread to suggest otherwise, with their usual pseudo-intellectual psycho babble, in the majority of cases those men who stood up for their rights and their conscience were anything but cowards and freeloaders and just as brave as those who went into battle. In fact many of them provided useful services on the home front in one way or another - so their contribution whilst not direct and in combat was not insignificant.
Sure there were some who were ducking it through fear and for the wrong reasons but branding ALL that way for having the guts to stick to their beliefs is wrong.
Red Poppy, White Poppy whatever the colour the important thing is remembering the sacrifices that people made in whatever way we each choose |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wear my poppy with pride to remember not only my Grandad but also all the others who gave so much.
I also defend the right of anyone brave enough to stand up and say they don't believe in a conflict or a cause bought about by those in power in the face of being branded a coward for doing so.
Despite the attempts by some on this thread to suggest otherwise, with their usual pseudo-intellectual psycho babble, in the majority of cases those men who stood up for their rights and their conscience were anything but cowards and freeloaders and just as brave as those who went into battle. In fact many of them provided useful services on the home front in one way or another - so their contribution whilst not direct and in combat was not insignificant.
Sure there were some who were ducking it through fear and for the wrong reasons but branding ALL that way for having the guts to stick to their beliefs is wrong.
Red Poppy, White Poppy whatever the colour the important thing is remembering the sacrifices that people made in whatever way we each choose "
Well said lovely xx |
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By *icentiousCouple
over a year ago
Up on them there hills |
"I wear my poppy with pride to remember not only my Grandad but also all the others who gave so much.
I also defend the right of anyone brave enough to stand up and say they don't believe in a conflict or a cause bought about by those in power in the face of being branded a coward for doing so.
Despite the attempts by some on this thread to suggest otherwise, with their usual pseudo-intellectual psycho babble, in the majority of cases those men who stood up for their rights and their conscience were anything but cowards and freeloaders and just as brave as those who went into battle. In fact many of them provided useful services on the home front in one way or another - so their contribution whilst not direct and in combat was not insignificant.
Sure there were some who were ducking it through fear and for the wrong reasons but branding ALL that way for having the guts to stick to their beliefs is wrong.
Red Poppy, White Poppy whatever the colour the important thing is remembering the sacrifices that people made in whatever way we each choose "
And yet with all this knowledge and history we still...? |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"I wear my poppy with pride to remember not only my Grandad but also all the others who gave so much.
I also defend the right of anyone brave enough to stand up and say they don't believe in a conflict or a cause bought about by those in power in the face of being branded a coward for doing so.
Despite the attempts by some on this thread to suggest otherwise, with their usual pseudo-intellectual psycho babble, in the majority of cases those men who stood up for their rights and their conscience were anything but cowards and freeloaders and just as brave as those who went into battle. In fact many of them provided useful services on the home front in one way or another - so their contribution whilst not direct and in combat was not insignificant.
Sure there were some who were ducking it through fear and for the wrong reasons but branding ALL that way for having the guts to stick to their beliefs is wrong.
Red Poppy, White Poppy whatever the colour the important thing is remembering the sacrifices that people made in whatever way we each choose "
This |
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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"I wear my poppy with pride to remember not only my Grandad but also all the others who gave so much.
I also defend the right of anyone brave enough to stand up and say they don't believe in a conflict or a cause bought about by those in power in the face of being branded a coward for doing so.
Despite the attempts by some on this thread to suggest otherwise, with their usual pseudo-intellectual psycho babble, in the majority of cases those men who stood up for their rights and their conscience were anything but cowards and freeloaders and just as brave as those who went into battle. In fact many of them provided useful services on the home front in one way or another - so their contribution whilst not direct and in combat was not insignificant.
Sure there were some who were ducking it through fear and for the wrong reasons but branding ALL that way for having the guts to stick to their beliefs is wrong.
Red Poppy, White Poppy whatever the colour the important thing is remembering the sacrifices that people made in whatever way we each choose And yet with all this knowledge and history we still...?"
We do, and always will - there will always be evils and causes to be fought for, always have been and there will always be calls for people to lay their lives on the line and they will and their sacrifices should be remembered but that doesn't mean we can't also strive as individuals for an end to all conflicts no matter how unlikely that may be - anyone suggesting that we shouldn't is either a liar or a psychopath in my opinion!! |
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"I have personal experience of both sides. One grandfather who did his duty like a man and one who stayed home like the coward he is. I've listen to every cock and bull story he's invented to try and justify it. It's pathetic."
Interesting take on it. What did he do instead? |
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"I wear my poppy with pride to remember not only my Grandad but also all the others who gave so much.
I also defend the right of anyone brave enough to stand up and say they don't believe in a conflict or a cause bought about by those in power in the face of being branded a coward for doing so.
Despite the attempts by some on this thread to suggest otherwise, with their usual pseudo-intellectual psycho babble, in the majority of cases those men who stood up for their rights and their conscience were anything but cowards and freeloaders and just as brave as those who went into battle. In fact many of them provided useful services on the home front in one way or another - so their contribution whilst not direct and in combat was not insignificant.
Sure there were some who were ducking it through fear and for the wrong reasons but branding ALL that way for having the guts to stick to their beliefs is wrong.
Red Poppy, White Poppy whatever the colour the important thing is remembering the sacrifices that people made in whatever way we each choose
This "
Perfectly put. |
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"I have personal experience of both sides. One grandfather who did his duty like a man and one who stayed home like the coward he is. I've listen to every cock and bull story he's invented to try and justify it. It's pathetic.
Interesting take on it. What did he do instead?"
He had his own business. He stayed home and ran that whilst doing absolutely fuck all for the war effort beyond paying his taxes. He did have to go to a tribunal and explain why he was a pussy. His dad was also a pussy and so it was never a bold decision he made, just a typical lefty following in the footsteps of his father. Anyone who thinks he is as courageous and brave as my other grandfather, who went to the front line, is delusional and intellectually dishonest with the English language.
We're on good terms now because i just compartmentalise that decision he made and he has many other good features. But i absolutely will not buy any cock and bull story about how it was a brave decision. |
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"He had his own business. He stayed home and ran that whilst doing absolutely fuck all for the war effort beyond paying his taxes. He did have to go to a tribunal and explain why he was a pussy.
His dad was also a pussy and so it was never a bold decision he made, just a typical lefty following in the footsteps of his father. Anyone who thinks he is as courageous and brave as my other grandfather, who went to the front line, is delusional and intellectually dishonest with the English language.
We're on good terms now because i just compartmentalise that decision he made and he has many other good features. But i absolutely will not buy any cock and bull story about how it was a brave decision. "
You can’t beat a good inter-generational grudge. So two generations of ‘pussies’ in your opinion. As several have already stated, there was nothing easy about objecting, and I doubt your father’s business did ‘fuck all for the war effort’ because being a bit busy wasn’t an acceptable reason to be removed from the draft. |
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"He had his own business. He stayed home and ran that whilst doing absolutely fuck all for the war effort beyond paying his taxes. He did have to go to a tribunal and explain why he was a pussy.
His dad was also a pussy and so it was never a bold decision he made, just a typical lefty following in the footsteps of his father. Anyone who thinks he is as courageous and brave as my other grandfather, who went to the front line, is delusional and intellectually dishonest with the English language.
We're on good terms now because i just compartmentalise that decision he made and he has many other good features. But i absolutely will not buy any cock and bull story about how it was a brave decision.
You can’t beat a good inter-generational grudge. So two generations of ‘pussies’ in your opinion. As several have already stated, there was nothing easy about objecting, and I doubt your father’s business did ‘fuck all for the war effort’ because being a bit busy wasn’t an acceptable reason to be removed from the draft."
You asked a question and I answered it. Please read my answer properly, I did not say his reason the tribunal accepted his status as a conscientious objector was because he was busy.
As i also said, I don't have a grudge against him. I strongly dislike a decision he made. I can seperate the two. But if people bring it up then I don't have to pretend that left is right, just to protect their feelings. |
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"Did his book get published?
If so, what is it called please? Family history can be fascinating
"
It was only ever small scale, he paid a publisher to print a few hundred paper copies. It's not a very interesting read and it's not on Amazon sorry. |
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"I always donate to the red poppy appeal and last week saw a white poppy stand in a local library and gave to them also.
I now have a white poppy and red poppy. I attend a local Remembrance parade every year. I think by wearing the white poppy it might detract and possibly offend so I have decided not to wear it but I am still happy to have donated. Does that make me a white poppy coward ?"
wear what you want ... rememberance bullies are just bullies ... and bullies have no place in rememberance |
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