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please comment on this
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By *ngie-baby OP Woman
over a year ago
huntingdonish |
Gary Speed, a football manager, takes his own life and receives a stupendous amount of respect and homage paid to him. A soldier from 5 Rifles was also killed the same day, half Gary's age and died whilst serving your country, yet all he receives is a ten second mention on the radio then the world forgets him. It is sad that Gary Speed died, but I hate that we live in a world where the only deaths we concern ourselves with are celebrities, not heroes!!! |
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yes, we said the same here, seems that sports/celebs are worthy more than ppl who risk their own lives daily, still a shame abour Gary Speed, but the stories from our soldiers do deserve more coverage |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Well the reasons are obvious, the media wouldnt go all out if I died rescueing children from a fire. Might get reported, but not much.
And I accept this. Knowing the reason is that im not famous, fine by me.
Gary Speed was the manager of one of the nations national football teams. Hundreds of thousands of Brits, possibly millions have watched him play.
Cheered him on, bood him cursed him for his brilliance (because he was a damn fine footballer) and had posters on their walls of him. So therefore lots of people feel a connection to him so its newsworthy.
I wonder how many of the people who write on their statuses about this speed/soldier thing that keeps coming up are willing to actually use their own spare time and capitol to make a difference. Or if theyd stop watching the soaps and x factors of this world to go about collecting money or raising soldiers profiles. Maybe set up a magazine along side help for heroes? |
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By *ngie-baby OP Woman
over a year ago
huntingdonish |
"Well the reasons are obvious, the media wouldnt go all out if I died rescueing children from a fire. Might get reported, but not much.
And I accept this. Knowing the reason is that im not famous, fine by me.
Gary Speed was the manager of one of the nations national football teams. Hundreds of thousands of Brits, possibly millions have watched him play.
Cheered him on, bood him cursed him for his brilliance (because he was a damn fine footballer) and had posters on their walls of him. So therefore lots of people feel a connection to him so its newsworthy.
I wonder how many of the people who write on their statuses about this speed/soldier thing that keeps coming up are willing to actually use their own spare time and capitol to make a difference. Or if theyd stop watching the soaps and x factors of this world to go about collecting money or raising soldiers profiles. Maybe set up a magazine along side help for heroes?"
well we do loads for help for heroes ... we have collecting tins on the bar, we hold events and raffles, we had a music and beer festival not so long ago and donated some profits too .... we hold bbqs etc ....so yes ... i think we do our bit. and the soldiers are paid probably the same amount in a lifetime as the gary speeds of this world earn in a week !!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Tragically people almost expect to hear about soldiers being killed, it has almost become a daily occurrence and has for many lost its shock factor.
However the death of a very popular young successful international football manager who on the surface has everything going for him is extremely rare.
My explanation doesn't make it palatable to me, but sadly its just the way it is. |
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By *aceytopWoman
over a year ago
from a town near you |
i too do my bit for help the hero,s
and yes it actualy crossed my mind when i watched the News that night,but im afraid this is the world we live in,sports men and celebrities unfortunatly always get the headlines,i dont like it anymore than you do,i think unless you have someone in the forces or have served, then the general Public dont have much of an idea what its like,but they do care,dont ever think they dont |
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I agree in part with the above post.
A young successful sportsman is not supposed to commit suicide.
I don't think it's highly newsworthy if a soldier dies. To their family yes. To the rest of the world that don't know them... no.
I'd never heard of Gary Speed for what it's worth but his death made me listen far more attentively than the death of a soldier would.
Are all soldiers heroes ? The ones that kill us for example ? Foreign ones? Or are they just murderers ?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Anyone who's life is lost before their time is tragic for family and friends and it's only because of it happening to someone universally well known that it unfortunately becomes "newsworthy"
there's no connection between the two
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The celebrity culture we live in is fueled by the media, who love to put people on pedestals only to then later knock them down. It sells media.
Sadly we have youngsters growing up who aspire to be a celebity figure rather than someone of use to society.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I would imagine that there were other people who committed suicide on the same day that Gary Speed did who didn't get mentioned even for a 5 minute slot on the radio.
The media is what it is |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I agree in part with the above post.
A young successful sportsman is not supposed to commit suicide.
I don't think it's highly newsworthy if a soldier dies. To their family yes. To the rest of the world that don't know them... no.
I'd never heard of Gary Speed for what it's worth but his death made me listen far more attentively than the death of a soldier would.
Are all soldiers heroes ? The ones that kill us for example ? Foreign ones? Or are they just murderers ?
"
I asked the same question over a group dinner the other night, it killed the conversation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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im not knocking soldiers here, but why do we class them as hero's? it was their choice to go into the armed forces so its their job to fight.
would we class a plumber who got blown up fitting a boiler a hero? i think not |
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"I agree in part with the above post.
A young successful sportsman is not supposed to commit suicide.
I don't think it's highly newsworthy if a soldier dies. To their family yes. To the rest of the world that don't know them... no.
I'd never heard of Gary Speed for what it's worth but his death made me listen far more attentively than the death of a soldier would.
Are all soldiers heroes ? The ones that kill us for example ? Foreign ones? Or are they just murderers ?
I asked the same question over a group dinner the other night, it killed the conversation. "
Ahhhh three courses.... jingoism , bigotry and a helping of double standards on the menu |
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By *ngie-baby OP Woman
over a year ago
huntingdonish |
"im not knocking soldiers here, but why do we class them as hero's? it was their choice to go into the armed forces so its their job to fight.
would we class a plumber who got blown up fitting a boiler a hero? i think not"
a plumber chooses to do certain jobs as do others ... forces personnel are ordered ... they get no choice ...cannot see how you associate the two jobs |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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they wasnt ordered to join the arm forces from the very start, if they go in thinking that they wont get killed or have to go to war then thats wrong
so my point is that they arent ordered in or they have to do it, They Do Have a Choice |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well the reasons are obvious, the media wouldnt go all out if I died rescueing children from a fire. Might get reported, but not much.
And I accept this. Knowing the reason is that im not famous, fine by me.
Gary Speed was the manager of one of the nations national football teams. Hundreds of thousands of Brits, possibly millions have watched him play.
Cheered him on, bood him cursed him for his brilliance (because he was a damn fine footballer) and had posters on their walls of him. So therefore lots of people feel a connection to him so its newsworthy.
I wonder how many of the people who write on their statuses about this speed/soldier thing that keeps coming up are willing to actually use their own spare time and capitol to make a difference. Or if theyd stop watching the soaps and x factors of this world to go about collecting money or raising soldiers profiles. Maybe set up a magazine along side help for heroes?
well we do loads for help for heroes ... we have collecting tins on the bar, we hold events and raffles, we had a music and beer festival not so long ago and donated some profits too .... we hold bbqs etc ....so yes ... i think we do our bit. and the soldiers are paid probably the same amount in a lifetime as the gary speeds of this world earn in a week !!!!"
Well done to you  and thats a true statement, but Gary was born with a god given talent that enabled him to make a living playing a game he loved, that millions throughout the world love and in one way or another contribute to. I have no jealousy towards anyone who through trying hard and following their dreams get their hands on the gold at the end of the rainbow.
Its not his fault and makes him no less a valid person for it.
Soldiers are heroes but unfortunately its not a spectator sport so the money isnt there.
And it doesnt change my point, lots feel as though they knew Speed, so its newsworthy, he's given lots of people lots oof memories that will feel individual and personal to them. I know I have, met him and saw him play.
I feel for the families of anyone who dies too young. Just dont understand the comparisons. |
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By *ngie-baby OP Woman
over a year ago
huntingdonish |
"they wasnt ordered to join the arm forces from the very start, if they go in thinking that they wont get killed or have to go to war then thats wrong
so my point is that they arent ordered in or they have to do it, They Do Have a Choice"
yes, they have a choice to go into the armed services ... but once in, they cant say i want to stay in england and not go to war.
maybe we should agree to disagree on this point |
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soldiers are heros once the choose to put the uniform of our country on and swear to protect us all,mentle illness is thrust upon people a silent killer and before they take their lives i doubt any1 would want to be in such a dark lonly place, i had never heard of garry speed as niether of us like football but we know those that have met the same sad lonely and tragic end, i'm sure if he had his choice he wouldnt want the publicity either nor be where his family are now, they are equally as tragic only 1 take it into their own hands, and remember the press are the paracits and making the differance not gary, may they all rest in peace |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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yeh its sad but its the world we live in. im not gonna rant about footballers wages and that.
but our boys should be better looked after and the families they leave behind too.
they are willing and some do make the greatest sacrifice of them all for us at the end of the day |
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By *ngie-baby OP Woman
over a year ago
huntingdonish |
"soldiers are heros once the choose to put the uniform of our country on and swear to protect us all,mentle illness is thrust upon people a silent killer and before they take their lives i doubt any1 would want to be in such a dark lonly place, i had never heard of garry speed as niether of us like football but we know those that have met the same sad lonely and tragic end, i'm sure if he had his choice he wouldnt want the publicity either nor be where his family are now, they are equally as tragic only 1 take it into their own hands, and remember the press are the paracits and making the differance not gary, may they all rest in peace"
nicely put xx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"they wasnt ordered to join the arm forces from the very start, if they go in thinking that they wont get killed or have to go to war then thats wrong
so my point is that they arent ordered in or they have to do it, They Do Have a Choice
yes, they have a choice to go into the armed services ... but once in, they cant say i want to stay in england and not go to war.
maybe we should agree to disagree on this point "
i do agree with some of that, but still not sure if we should class them as hero's like someone else said would we class one of the other soldiers on the other side a hero also? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"yeh its sad but its the world we live in. im not gonna rant about footballers wages and that.
but our boys should be better looked after and the families they leave behind too.
they are willing and some do make the greatest sacrifice of them all for us at the end of the day"
Oh I agree with that. And should be better paid, you cant compare soldiering to plumbing I dont think.
To a lot of soldiers its a calling, doing their duty, in defence of our nation. Which when you get right down to it means us. |
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By *ngie-baby OP Woman
over a year ago
huntingdonish |
"they wasnt ordered to join the arm forces from the very start, if they go in thinking that they wont get killed or have to go to war then thats wrong
so my point is that they arent ordered in or they have to do it, They Do Have a Choice
yes, they have a choice to go into the armed services ... but once in, they cant say i want to stay in england and not go to war.
maybe we should agree to disagree on this point
i do agree with some of that, but still not sure if we should class them as hero's like someone else said would we class one of the other soldiers on the other side a hero also?"
no ... we dont .... but maybe the other sides countrymen do |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"they wasnt ordered to join the arm forces from the very start, if they go in thinking that they wont get killed or have to go to war then thats wrong
so my point is that they arent ordered in or they have to do it, They Do Have a Choice"
Our soldiers know the risks and yes the choice is theirs, but despite them knowing the risks and dangers and long periods away from family and loved ones, they still offer their services - heroic to me... |
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"yeh its sad but its the world we live in. im not gonna rant about footballers wages and that.
but our boys should be better looked after and the families they leave behind too.
they are willing and some do make the greatest sacrifice of them all for us at the end of the day"
i totally agree with you 100% now i ask you what have you done to help change this??? how many protests have you arrange or attended how many petitions have you signed to get better conditions, we as my hubby is an ex soldier sign and demonstrate to get our boys recognised, but to ballance he also does same for pip and other mentel health charity organisations for these issues,
ps when i say you i am not pointing at you though i did quote from ur post but all those that want to change the way things are they dont change on their own no matter how unfair |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Gary Speed, a football manager, takes his own life and receives a stupendous amount of respect and homage paid to him. A soldier from 5 Rifles was also killed the same day, half Gary's age and died whilst serving your country, yet all he receives is a ten second mention on the radio then the world forgets him. It is sad that Gary Speed died, but I hate that we live in a world where the only deaths we concern ourselves with are celebrities, not heroes!!!"
+1 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To me, the soldiers ARE heroes.
Yes they choose the life of a soldier, knowing full well the risks it brings.
They run towards situations that instinct tells us to run away from, and feel fear just as we do- thats what makes the heroic- they face their fear and do it anyway.
A footballer doesn't have that as part of his career choice, so I don't think its comparable.
I also think his death was tragic but for very different reasons.
And the world we live in does make it fairer, as our poor fallen brave soldiers do get remembered, at least once a year, the footballer won't have that. |
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"they wasnt ordered to join the arm forces from the very start, if they go in thinking that they wont get killed or have to go to war then thats wrong
so my point is that they arent ordered in or they have to do it, They Do Have a Choice"
Yes, they do have a choice.
They choose to defend "Queen and Country", sometimes laying down their lives in so doing.
They choose to provide the security that you hide behind, secure, free to say what you want.
I make no apologies for pasting the following quote, it sums it up, especially the last bit...
"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand at post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"they wasnt ordered to join the arm forces from the very start, if they go in thinking that they wont get killed or have to go to war then thats wrong
so my point is that they arent ordered in or they have to do it, They Do Have a Choice
Yes, they do have a choice.
They choose to defend "Queen and Country", sometimes laying down their lives in so doing.
They choose to provide the security that you hide behind, secure, free to say what you want.
I make no apologies for pasting the following quote, it sums it up, especially the last bit...
"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand at post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."
"
i love that film,
But all this is about is our own opinion and what i have said is just mine |
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"they wasnt ordered to join the arm forces from the very start, if they go in thinking that they wont get killed or have to go to war then thats wrong
so my point is that they arent ordered in or they have to do it, They Do Have a Choice
Yes, they do have a choice.
They choose to defend "Queen and Country", sometimes laying down their lives in so doing.
They choose to provide the security that you hide behind, secure, free to say what you want.
I make no apologies for pasting the following quote, it sums it up, especially the last bit...
"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand at post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."
i love that film,
But all this is about is our own opinion and what i have said is just mine"
I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand at post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to." |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Gary Speed, a football manager, takes his own life and receives a stupendous amount of respect and homage paid to him. A soldier from 5 Rifles was also killed the same day, half Gary's age and died whilst serving your country, yet all he receives is a ten second mention on the radio then the world forgets him. It is sad that Gary Speed died, but I hate that we live in a world where the only deaths we concern ourselves with are celebrities, not heroes!!!"
i think it is a fine line that you are tredding... especially with the use of the word "hero" if you are comparing apples with oranges
Gary Speed served as manager of his country in one of there national sports, played more times than any other outfield player for his country, so far example...
is he someone that the people of wales looked up to.. absolutely!
could he be called a "hero"... to some maybe....
I respected the hell out of gary speed, he is one of those players then teams he played for loved him, and those who played against him wished he was one of theirs!!!
I have crossed paths with gary... see the RIP Gary Speed thread, to me he could not have been nicer....there has not been one bad word said against him...
I don't it is fair to critise the coverage of one against the other... because there are two families out there grieving the loss of loved ones..... |
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By *odareyouMan
over a year ago
not far from iceland,,,,,, tescos is nearer though :-) (near leeds) |
"phew all i can say to that is ,they are all someones babysDitto x"
This won't be the first instance where acelebrity has died along with another person and tragically won't be the last either, I'm not certain I can't remember when Amy winehouse died if any soldiers died that day .to be honest I can't remember the date either, I hope not,, when I hear of another armed forces personnels death I hope that may be the last...
I wasn't affected personally by the event s of the weekend , I m sure that both families are grieving, one may not get to do it privately, celebrity can and does come with a price as well ,....
both events tragic in their own rights,
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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right of topic slightly here.
you will never hear a member of the armed forces call them self a hero ever its a media thing. as for its thier choice to sign up yes it is not many people would be willing to sign on the dotted line knowing what the futuire hold they do this so the rest of us can sleep peacfully at night. as for the comment about occupation changing the fact about dying how about a pimp drug dealer should they be held in the same esteam as a member of the armed forces.
also gary speed took his own life he chose to die |
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"Gary Speed, a football manager, takes his own life and receives a stupendous amount of respect and homage paid to him. A soldier from 5 Rifles was also killed the same day, half Gary's age and died whilst serving your country, yet all he receives is a ten second mention on the radio then the world forgets him. It is sad that Gary Speed died, but I hate that we live in a world where the only deaths we concern ourselves with are celebrities, not heroes!!!"
i tried to point this out previously and got the worst abuse i have ever experienced in the forums  |
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"Also, Gary Speed took his own life.
he CHOSE to die
absobloodylutely xx"
Really????? let us know when you are in such a place where the only thing that you can think of to make everything better for you and your family is to not be here and we'll have a chat!!
probably not going to make many friends here but.....
i cant stand posts like the OP, why is it such a shock to people that someone massive in the NATIONAL sport gets a lot of press attention when he dies?
Yes it is sad that soldiers die but i am kind of guessing that they got told in the induction that might happen and they still choose to sign up.
it may sound crass but it would be impossible for us all to care so much about everyone that died. Soldiers get a national day of remembrance fo this reason. A chance for the nation to show that they are thanful for the sacrifice made by the fallen.
Bert down the end of my road died the other day, he was a grandfather of 3, a decorated war veteran, volunteered well into his 80's driving a patient ambulance to help other elderly people get to nd from the hospital, real salt of the earth bloke - did that mae the news?? nope, i think i'll complain to the press ombudsman for not dedicating a whole night of the week to mention EVERYONE that dies!!
(p.s bert is not real, just trying to mae a point) |
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By *ngie-baby OP Woman
over a year ago
huntingdonish |
"Also, Gary Speed took his own life.
he CHOSE to die
absobloodylutely xx
Really????? let us know when you are in such a place where the only thing that you can think of to make everything better for you and your family is to not be here and we'll have a chat!!
probably not going to make many friends here but.....
i cant stand posts like the OP, why is it such a shock to people that someone massive in the NATIONAL sport gets a lot of press attention when he dies?
Yes it is sad that soldiers die but i am kind of guessing that they got told in the induction that might happen and they still choose to sign up.
it may sound crass but it would be impossible for us all to care so much about everyone that died. Soldiers get a national day of remembrance fo this reason. A chance for the nation to show that they are thanful for the sacrifice made by the fallen.
Bert down the end of my road died the other day, he was a grandfather of 3, a decorated war veteran, volunteered well into his 80's driving a patient ambulance to help other elderly people get to nd from the hospital, real salt of the earth bloke - did that mae the news?? nope, i think i'll complain to the press ombudsman for not dedicating a whole night of the week to mention EVERYONE that dies!!
(p.s bert is not real, just trying to mae a point)"
but i thought no one could find a reason for the suicide ... happy family guy etc .... in my honest opinion (and it is MY opinion) all suicides leave the friends and family left behind with so much grief, as in, perhaps if someting was said it could have been talked about and maybe even resolved.
also. if, as in some cases of suicide, family know of the problem, be it massive debt or whatever, what about the poor souls who are left behind to grieve AND try & clear up the mess that has been left to them??
i'm not saying suicide is a cowards way out, but, if ever i was in the position where i felt it was THE only way out of my problems, then i think i would give consideration to what i was escaping from and if the people left could cope |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"but i thought no one could find a reason for the suicide ... happy family guy etc .... in my honest opinion (and it is MY opinion) all suicides leave the friends and family left behind with so much grief, as in, perhaps if someting was said it could have been talked about and maybe even resolved.
also. if, as in some cases of suicide, family know of the problem, be it massive debt or whatever, what about the poor souls who are left behind to grieve AND try & clear up the mess that has been left to them??
i'm not saying suicide is a cowards way out, but, if ever i was in the position where i felt it was THE only way out of my problems, then i think i would give consideration to what i was escaping from and if the people left could cope"
Which just goes to prove that everyone is different!
I think unless you have been there you probably would find it hard to empathise with this man- not that I would wish it on anyone.
But the teo examples posted by the OP really don't bear any resemblence to each other, so its a nonsensical statement, anyway. |
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"Also, Gary Speed took his own life.
he CHOSE to die
absobloodylutely xx"
absolutly terrible thing to say.
i served in the british army for most of my adult life i did not join to serve queen and country i joined for the easy life and money in my pocket the same as the plumber up the road now nice as it sounds not all soldiers are "heros" or all footballers are positive role models you are not a hero just because you join the army. |
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By *ngie-baby OP Woman
over a year ago
huntingdonish |
"but i thought no one could find a reason for the suicide ... happy family guy etc .... in my honest opinion (and it is MY opinion) all suicides leave the friends and family left behind with so much grief, as in, perhaps if someting was said it could have been talked about and maybe even resolved.
also. if, as in some cases of suicide, family know of the problem, be it massive debt or whatever, what about the poor souls who are left behind to grieve AND try & clear up the mess that has been left to them??
i'm not saying suicide is a cowards way out, but, if ever i was in the position where i felt it was THE only way out of my problems, then i think i would give consideration to what i was escaping from and if the people left could cope
Which just goes to prove that everyone is different!
I think unless you have been there you probably would find it hard to empathise with this man- not that I would wish it on anyone.
But the teo examples posted by the OP really don't bear any resemblence to each other, so its a nonsensical statement, anyway."
not at all.
my original post was to make the point that media push on what is (in their opinion) more newsworthy. i.e. it sells newspapers and if gary speed had not commited suicide on the day that he did, then the guy in 5 rifle would have made the headlines.
i wanted to provoke discussion, which seems to have worked, should i post another contoversial subject ??? let me know.
anythings better than "the one above lol" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"not at all.
my original post was to make the point that media push on what is (in their opinion) more newsworthy. i.e. it sells newspapers and if gary speed had not commited suicide on the day that he did, then the guy in 5 rifle would have made the headlines.
i wanted to provoke discussion, which seems to have worked, should i post another contoversial subject ??? let me know.
anythings better than "the one above lol""
No, your original post asked for OUR comments.
You could use any example to talk about the Media- for example one of the most amazing film directors also died this week, but only rated a small one eighth of a page comment by a National newspaper, whilst Samantha Camerons shoes made the front page.
Sadly, the death of a soldier no longer makes headlines like it did, mainly because it has become a commonplace occurence.
THAT is the real tragedy here. |
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By *ngie-baby OP Woman
over a year ago
huntingdonish |
"not at all.
my original post was to make the point that media push on what is (in their opinion) more newsworthy. i.e. it sells newspapers and if gary speed had not commited suicide on the day that he did, then the guy in 5 rifle would have made the headlines.
i wanted to provoke discussion, which seems to have worked, should i post another contoversial subject ??? let me know.
anythings better than "the one above lol"
No, your original post asked for OUR comments.
You could use any example to talk about the Media- for example one of the most amazing film directors also died this week, but only rated a small one eighth of a page comment by a National newspaper, whilst Samantha Camerons shoes made the front page.
Sadly, the death of a soldier no longer makes headlines like it did, mainly because it has become a commonplace occurence.
THAT is the real tragedy here."
very much agree ... that really IS the fragedy here |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Also, Gary Speed took his own life.
he CHOSE to die
absobloodylutely xx
Really????? let us know when you are in such a place where the only thing that you can think of to make everything better for you and your family is to not be here and we'll have a chat!!
probably not going to make many friends here but.....
i cant stand posts like the OP, why is it such a shock to people that someone massive in the NATIONAL sport gets a lot of press attention when he dies?
Yes it is sad that soldiers die but i am kind of guessing that they got told in the induction that might happen and they still choose to sign up.
it may sound crass but it would be impossible for us all to care so much about everyone that died. Soldiers get a national day of remembrance fo this reason. A chance for the nation to show that they are thanful for the sacrifice made by the fallen.
Bert down the end of my road died the other day, he was a grandfather of 3, a decorated war veteran, volunteered well into his 80's driving a patient ambulance to help other elderly people get to nd from the hospital, real salt of the earth bloke - did that mae the news?? nope, i think i'll complain to the press ombudsman for not dedicating a whole night of the week to mention EVERYONE that dies!!
(p.s bert is not real, just trying to mae a point)"
*applauds Eveshams' post*
I'm sure those that start or copy n paste these sort of posts have no real understanding of what mental illness can do. It's f**kin evil when it's at it's worst.... and CAN be totally undetected because some sufferers are far too ashamed to speak out... even to their closest and loved ones.
From the outside someone could appear to be extremely happy... on the inside they may be consumed with desperation.
Anyone who says that suicide is a cowardly way out and selfish makes me 
I really don't get why some people feel the need to try and compare the death of a celebrity/sporting hero to the death of soldier... soldiers are hero's in my eyes, but seriously... can we expect EVERY single one of them that dies fighting for our country to be thrown into the media limelight?
Gary Speeds death has thrown mental illness into the spotlight and is raising awareness... if it makes just one person realise they have a problem and seek help instead of taking their own lives then surely some good has come of it?
RIP Gary and all our fallen heroes xxx
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"not at all.
my original post was to make the point that media push on what is (in their opinion) more newsworthy. i.e. it sells newspapers and if gary speed had not commited suicide on the day that he did, then the guy in 5 rifle would have made the headlines.
i wanted to provoke discussion, which seems to have worked, should i post another contoversial subject ??? let me know.
anythings better than "the one above lol"
No, your original post asked for OUR comments.
You could use any example to talk about the Media- for example one of the most amazing film directors also died this week, but only rated a small one eighth of a page comment by a National newspaper, whilst Samantha Camerons shoes made the front page.
Sadly, the death of a soldier no longer makes headlines like it did, mainly because it has become a commonplace occurence.
THAT is the real tragedy here.
very much agree ... that really IS the fragedy here"
Really? Just consider for a moment how safe that soldier, and every other soldier, would have been were he stationed here defending his country.
Rather than being at war, an unwinnable war, with Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Now which is the tragedy again?
|
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Also, despite a lifelong dislike of Leeds UFC, i admired Gary Speed as a talented and professional footballer.
I never got the feeling he considered himself, or wished, to be a "celebrity".
Maybe he disliked the media coverage as much as anyone. It may or may not have played a part. |
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Both men have grieving families one lost his life to war... 1 lost his life for reasons of his own.
One death has more press coverage than the other but both will be remembered in different ways by the grieving families.. |
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"Both men have grieving families one lost his life to war... 1 lost his life for reasons of his own.
One death has more press coverage than the other but both will be remembered in different ways by the grieving families.. "
this^^^^^^
And if the press coverage of gary speeds death saves one life ,then surely that is a good thing? |
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"Both men have grieving families one lost his life to war... 1 lost his life for reasons of his own.
One death has more press coverage than the other but both will be remembered in different ways by the grieving families..
this^^^^^^
And if the press coverage of gary speeds death saves one life ,then surely that is a good thing?"
We can't change that soldiers are dying that is up to the ones in number 10 and the Whitehouse. We can't change Gary died but we can raise awareness that it is ok to get help if you feel that you can't cope. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"they wasnt ordered to join the arm forces from the very start, if they go in thinking that they wont get killed or have to go to war then thats wrong
so my point is that they arent ordered in or they have to do it, They Do Have a Choice"
I'm not saying soldiers are heroes, but I think the reason people class them that is because they chose to join knowing the risks to try and better the country or others! I know that's why I joined.
Just like any of the services (police, fire etc), they have their own inherrant risks but people do the job knowing those risks because they probably feel proud about the fact they are making a difference! |
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"Also, Gary Speed took his own life.
he CHOSE to die
absobloodylutely xx
Really????? let us know when you are in such a place where the only thing that you can think of to make everything better for you and your family is to not be here and we'll have a chat!!
probably not going to make many friends here but.....
i cant stand posts like the OP, why is it such a shock to people that someone massive in the NATIONAL sport gets a lot of press attention when he dies?
Yes it is sad that soldiers die but i am kind of guessing that they got told in the induction that might happen and they still choose to sign up.
it may sound crass but it would be impossible for us all to care so much about everyone that died. Soldiers get a national day of remembrance fo this reason. A chance for the nation to show that they are thanful for the sacrifice made by the fallen.
Bert down the end of my road died the other day, he was a grandfather of 3, a decorated war veteran, volunteered well into his 80's driving a patient ambulance to help other elderly people get to nd from the hospital, real salt of the earth bloke - did that mae the news?? nope, i think i'll complain to the press ombudsman for not dedicating a whole night of the week to mention EVERYONE that dies!!
(p.s bert is not real, just trying to mae a point)
but i thought no one could find a reason for the suicide ... happy family guy etc .... in my honest opinion (and it is MY opinion) all suicides leave the friends and family left behind with so much grief, as in, perhaps if someting was said it could have been talked about and maybe even resolved.
also. if, as in some cases of suicide, family know of the problem, be it massive debt or whatever, what about the poor souls who are left behind to grieve AND try & clear up the mess that has been left to them??
i'm not saying suicide is a cowards way out, but, if ever i was in the position where i felt it was THE only way out of my problems, then i think i would give consideration to what i was escaping from and if the people left could cope"
Sadly when someone is in the position where they contemplate killing themselves they have passed beyond considering what it might do to those left behind,indeed for many they believe the world,and especially there family will be better of without them.
Depression is an illness,you do not think rationally,if you did you would not be depressed,so your statement of what you would do doesn't hold water.Being in the grip of the black dog can be so terrible that living seems harder than dying. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Also, Gary Speed took his own life.
he CHOSE to die
absobloodylutely xxabsolutly terrible thing to say.
i served in the british army for most of my adult life i did not join to serve queen and country i joined for the easy life and money in my pocket the same as the plumber up the road now nice as it sounds not all soldiers are "heros" or all footballers are positive role models you are not a hero just because you join the army. "
Very well said.
And how sad to read some of the comments on here.
Presumably someone will write out Jack Nicholson's quote from A Few Good Men.
Can anyone remember why he was sat in the chair answering questions though? Think on. |
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people don't choose to take their own life!! It is something that happens when you reach the bottom of the pit... Do you say that about the soldiers that have taken their own lives because of the horrors they have seen????? No one chooses to die.... ffs |
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"people don't choose to take their own life!! It is something that happens when you reach the bottom of the pit... Do you say that about the soldiers that have taken their own lives because of the horrors they have seen????? No one chooses to die.... ffs "
good point DG 
Where do we sit with the soldiers that suffer post traumatic stress disorder? are they selfish hero's? surely if thy just talk about it everything will be fine |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Unfortunately it's expected that during a war that soldiers may lose lives, but a man pretty much at the top of his game, that is the manager of his country of his chosen sport, considered attractive, wealthy and with a nice family. well society says he has everything and therefore is a shock to learn he took his own life.
The two situations are hardly comparable.
Gary Speed highlights that depression (if that was the case) can and does hit anyone, not just the poor or those suffering obvious hard times.
There have been other shocking things to happen in recent days with not much fuss....
A man of 32 raped by two men.
A woman of 79 mugged and wound up dead because she tried to keep hold of her handbag that she carried a container that held her husbands ashes.
A young woman of 21 found dead in a lake.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Unfortunately it's expected that during a war that soldiers may lose lives, but a man pretty much at the top of his game, that is the manager of his country of his chosen sport, considered attractive, wealthy and with a nice family. well society says he has everything and therefore is a shock to learn he took his own life.
The two situations are hardly comparable.
Gary Speed highlights that depression (if that was the case) can and does hit anyone, not just the poor or those suffering obvious hard times.
There have been other shocking things to happen in recent days with not much fuss....
A man of 32 raped by two men.
A woman of 79 mugged and wound up dead because she tried to keep hold of her handbag that she carried a container that held her husbands ashes.
A young woman of 21 found dead in a lake.
"
Another post I applaud!
It's all about perception. |
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By *ngie-baby OP Woman
over a year ago
huntingdonish |
"then you can stop praying .... it did .... in 2006 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you saying someone close to you took their life back in 2006?"
your read into it however you wish, but.
the answer to that question is private and personal...and i do not see where an answer would make any difference to the thread... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Gary Speed was a unique person that he was successful, famous and seemingly had everything to live for.
Had he been killed in a car crash, it would have been a tragedy but a least it would make sense, there would have been the black arm bands but no one would be talking about it much after.
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Everyone is quick to judge the what ifs, and maybes.. We don't know why Gary took his life there are no claims for depression maybe he had a dark secret that he did not want to get out... One that might ruin him and his families who knows!! However I think people are quick to judge others when people don't want to be judged that they are swingers.
There is unreported terrible happenings that are going on in this world... Its sad but it happens.... |
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"then you can stop praying .... it did .... in 2006 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you saying someone close to you took their life back in 2006?
your read into it however you wish, but.
the answer to that question is private and personal...and i do not see where an answer would make any difference to the thread..."
so why post the statement?? you must have known people wuld question it?? |
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By *ngie-baby OP Woman
over a year ago
huntingdonish |
"Everyone is quick to judge the what ifs, and maybes.. We don't know why Gary took his life there are no claims for depression maybe he had a dark secret that he did not want to get out... One that might ruin him and his families who knows!! However I think people are quick to judge others when people don't want to be judged that they are swingers.
There is unreported terrible happenings that are going on in this world... Its sad but it happens.... "
very true ... tonights news ... an elderly man in lanarkshire was killed trying to stop someone (wanted to put lowlife but not wanting to upset anyone)
from stealing his car |
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By *ngie-baby OP Woman
over a year ago
huntingdonish |
"then you can stop praying .... it did .... in 2006 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you saying someone close to you took their life back in 2006?
your read into it however you wish, but.
the answer to that question is private and personal...and i do not see where an answer would make any difference to the thread...
so why post the statement?? you must have known people wuld question it??"
to provoke discussion ... not discuss my personal life |
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"
A man of 32 raped by two men.
A woman of 79 mugged and wound up dead because she tried to keep hold of her handbag that she carried a container that held her husbands ashes.
A young woman of 21 found dead in a lake.
"
Hmmmm, suspicious, you seem to know something of these. You got a bike? |
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"then you can stop praying .... it did .... in 2006 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you saying someone close to you took their life back in 2006?
your read into it however you wish, but.
the answer to that question is private and personal...and i do not see where an answer would make any difference to the thread...
so why post the statement?? you must have known people wuld question it??
to provoke discussion ... not discuss my personal life"
yes, i get the original post, i was referring to YOU bringing YOUR personal life into it by stating that something happened to you in 2006 but then getting defensive when someone ased a queston about it |
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By *ngie-baby OP Woman
over a year ago
huntingdonish |
the question ended in "shame on you"
suggesting that i dont comment on something i have not experienced ... to which i answered it did. in 2006.
then someone else asked the question again in a manner that seemed like they wanted more details.
if that makes sense ???
theres a lot of posts to look back on to get any form of accuracy |
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By *ngie-baby OP Woman
over a year ago
huntingdonish |
"the question ended in "shame on you"
suggesting that i dont comment on something i have not experienced ... to which i answered it did. in 2006.
then someone else asked the question again in a manner that seemed like they wanted more details.
if that makes sense ???
theres a lot of posts to look back on to get any form of accuracy"
and yes ... don't normally happen... but the "shame on you" bit did raise my hackles a bit .... sorry |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"then you can stop praying .... it did .... in 2006 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you saying someone close to you took their life back in 2006?
your read into it however you wish, but.
the answer to that question is private and personal...and i do not see where an answer would make any difference to the thread..."
My question wasn't meant to inflame or put you under the spotlight. It's just you said you stopped praying in 2006.
I didn't stop praying in 2001 when a dear loved one took his life. I decided to carry on praying he is now at peace and for my family to cope. My prayers were answered in a sense because we are all happy and we are conteted knowing that he is at peace. |
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By *ngie-baby OP Woman
over a year ago
huntingdonish |
"then you can stop praying .... it did .... in 2006 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you saying someone close to you took their life back in 2006?
your read into it however you wish, but.
the answer to that question is private and personal...and i do not see where an answer would make any difference to the thread...
My question wasn't meant to inflame or put you under the spotlight. It's just you said you stopped praying in 2006.
I didn't stop praying in 2001 when a dear loved one took his life. I decided to carry on praying he is now at peace and for my family to cope. My prayers were answered in a sense because we are all happy and we are conteted knowing that he is at peace."
i didn't say I stopped praying .... someone else said they pray .... blah blah shame on you ... cant remember how it went now, please go back through the posts if you wish |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
There`s a few here saying all soldiers are heroes ? Does that extend to our Allies ?
Does that include the soldier controlling a drone...sitting in a room hundreds of miles away...playstation all lit up...
Human casualties killed are called " bugsplat " by the authorities.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"the question ended in "shame on you"
suggesting that i dont comment on something i have not experienced ... to which i answered it did. in 2006.
then someone else asked the question again in a manner that seemed like they wanted more details.
if that makes sense ???
theres a lot of posts to look back on to get any form of accuracy
and yes ... don't normally happen... but the "shame on you" bit did raise my hackles a bit .... sorry"
Oh hang on. I asked the question about your 2006 statement. I didn't say shame on you though. How has my question been joined with any shame on you statement? |
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By *ngie-baby OP Woman
over a year ago
huntingdonish |
"There is no need to be rude I think they are just curious as to what you meant. You then state shame on you... they don't need to be shameful in asking a question.. Just a thought.. "
sorry not sure if this was for me or not ... if it was, i was not being rude, i was quoting what someone else said to me |
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"There is no need to be rude I think they are just curious as to what you meant. You then state shame on you... they don't need to be shameful in asking a question.. Just a thought..
sorry not sure if this was for me or not ... if it was, i was not being rude, i was quoting what someone else said to me"
Maybe it might be a good time to draw a line under it?
You have explained what you meant, so perhaps we should all just accept your explanation and move on..... |
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By *ngie-baby OP Woman
over a year ago
huntingdonish |
"Also, Gary Speed took his own life.
he CHOSE to die
absobloodylutely pray u never find someone u know that feels they have no choice left as life gets them down, shame on u"
to clarify .... this is what was posted to me |
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"There is no need to be rude I think they are just curious as to what you meant. You then state shame on you... they don't need to be shameful in asking a question.. Just a thought..
sorry not sure if this was for me or not ... if it was, i was not being rude, i was quoting what someone else said to me
Maybe it might be a good time to draw a line under it?
You have explained what you meant, so perhaps we should all just accept your explanation and move on....."
Good idea |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"then you can stop praying .... it did .... in 2006 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you saying someone close to you took their life back in 2006?
your read into it however you wish, but.
the answer to that question is private and personal...and i do not see where an answer would make any difference to the thread...
My question wasn't meant to inflame or put you under the spotlight. It's just you said you stopped praying in 2006.
I didn't stop praying in 2001 when a dear loved one took his life. I decided to carry on praying he is now at peace and for my family to cope. My prayers were answered in a sense because we are all happy and we are conteted knowing that he is at peace.
i didn't say I stopped praying .... someone else said they pray .... blah blah shame on you ... cant remember how it went now, please go back through the posts if you wish"
I have gone back through the posts right up to
where you posted this:
"then you can stop praying .... it did .... in 2006 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
At least be consistent when typing posts on here. I had sympathy for you when posted that 2006 pointer, it means something to you clearly.
I shall not bother you again. |
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By *ngie-baby OP Woman
over a year ago
huntingdonish |
"then you can stop praying .... it did .... in 2006 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you saying someone close to you took their life back in 2006?
your read into it however you wish, but.
the answer to that question is private and personal...and i do not see where an answer would make any difference to the thread...
My question wasn't meant to inflame or put you under the spotlight. It's just you said you stopped praying in 2006.
I didn't stop praying in 2001 when a dear loved one took his life. I decided to carry on praying he is now at peace and for my family to cope. My prayers were answered in a sense because we are all happy and we are conteted knowing that he is at peace.
i didn't say I stopped praying .... someone else said they pray .... blah blah shame on you ... cant remember how it went now, please go back through the posts if you wish
I have gone back through the posts right up to
where you posted this:
then you can stop praying .... it did .... in 2006 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At least be consistent when typing posts on here. I had sympathy for you when posted that 2006 pointer, it means something to you clearly.
I shall not bother you again."
you need to go back a little further than what you did,
and you are not bothering me at all |
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Rushden |
Celebrity will always trump The Armed Forces when it comes to reporting! I am not a footy fan so didn't have any idea who Gary Speed was. I also didn't know the soldier either, but I have the same sympathy for both families. It must be very hard to lose someone so suddenly.
But it is not always true celebrity that gets reported over The Armed Forces! A few years back, a guy called Ken Bigley went out to Iraq because he could earn big bucks for his retirement! When he was out there, he was kidnapped and killed by an armed gang.
Despite never having held a service and silence for any local soldiers that had been killed in action, Liverpool Council held two minutes silence and had a service in the Cathedral.. FFS... Tony Blair even did a reading and Terry Waite sent a message!
OK, I know he wasn't a celebrity in the accepted sense, but the media made him one once he was kidnapped. I think it is so sad that people are judged more worthy for how many times they have appeared on the television, instead of how they have served their country |
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"then you can stop praying .... it did .... in 2006 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
please do not misquote me to turn ur cold statement round i did not say i was prayin!!!!!!!!nor imply u should experience it, mentel illness cant be seen, its not a choice, someone can battle for years without even the closest to them knowing the torment, to judge is not our place
|
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By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
All passing is sad...
mostly,
everyone has someone who sheds a tear of joy when they arrive in this world.
sadly,
not everyone has someone who sheds a tear of sadness when they leave this world
xx |
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"Gary Speed, a football manager, takes his own life and receives a stupendous amount of respect and homage paid to him. A soldier from 5 Rifles was also killed the same day, half Gary's age and died whilst serving your country, yet all he receives is a ten second mention on the radio then the world forgets him. It is sad that Gary Speed died, but I hate that we live in a world where the only deaths we concern ourselves with are celebrities, not heroes!!!"
For the example you give... in short.... a lot more people will want to know why Gary Speed hasn't turned up for work.
1000's of people die every day, unless there is an unusual angle to the story to make it interesting, are we really touched by a list of unknown names, do we really care? They may well be heroes, but if I said Adam Green aged 38 died last week, what really does it mean to any of us?...... bob diddly squat. |
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By *-and-KCouple
over a year ago
Back of Beyond |
Sadly no matter how hard it is to palate for many of us, a soldier is not a hero. He's just a man (or woman) doing their chosen job.
A person only a become's hero by doing something extrordinarily brave. The newspapers, the Sun in particular are responsible for the overuse of the word hero when it comes to servicemen/women.
Because its become an overused term the death of one of them now quickly passes and is sadly forgotten. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't know why people are making assumptions he was depressed, I've yet to see anywhere that said he was. "
What would make a perfectly happy and content man one day, take his own life the very next day if he wasn't unbalanced in some way? |
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"Also, Gary Speed took his own life.
he CHOSE to die
absobloodylutely xx
Really????? let us know when you are in such a place where the only thing that you can think of to make everything better for you and your family is to not be here and we'll have a chat!!
probably not going to make many friends here but.....
i cant stand posts like the OP, why is it such a shock to people that someone massive in the NATIONAL sport gets a lot of press attention when he dies?
Yes it is sad that soldiers die but i am kind of guessing that they got told in the induction that might happen and they still choose to sign up.
it may sound crass but it would be impossible for us all to care so much about everyone that died. Soldiers get a national day of remembrance fo this reason. A chance for the nation to show that they are thanful for the sacrifice made by the fallen.
Bert down the end of my road died the other day, he was a grandfather of 3, a decorated war veteran, volunteered well into his 80's driving a patient ambulance to help other elderly people get to nd from the hospital, real salt of the earth bloke - did that mae the news?? nope, i think i'll complain to the press ombudsman for not dedicating a whole night of the week to mention EVERYONE that dies!!
(p.s bert is not real, just trying to mae a point)"
Sorry for quoting you evesham, i cant find the original post that said he chose to die. But to whoever posted it congratulations. In nearly 4 years thats the first post thats made me feel physically sick |
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"I don't know why people are making assumptions he was depressed, I've yet to see anywhere that said he was.
What would make a perfectly happy and content man one day, take his own life the very next day if he wasn't unbalanced in some way?"
I'll wait to hear an expert explain that at the inquest....all this assumption and guesswork is coming from persons who are themselves not experts.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't know why people are making assumptions he was depressed, I've yet to see anywhere that said he was. "
Just to say, though I mentioned the word depression I also said (if that was the case), I was using depression as an example. |
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