FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Should it be an offence?
Should it be an offence?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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'S* aged 17, plunged from the top of a city centre car park after police negotiators spent three hours trying to talk him down.
A 300-strong crowd of had gathered underneath, with a few shouting abuse at him and urging him to jump. One teenager even yelled: "How far can you bounce?"
Eventually S* leapt 60 feet onto the pavement below, dying instantly.
Police said none of those who were shouting at him were actually committing an offence.
But Supt A*, of Derbyshire police, said it was a "disturbing and shocking reflection on society when people feel inclined to do that".'
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A comment from another case where a homeless man threatened to jump off a bridge to protest about his housing situation. A crowd gathered shouting and encouraging him to jump -
"Mr I*'s method of protest was undoubtedly reckless and stupid. But the most shocking aspect of the incident was not the 50-year-old’s attempt to get attention – rather, it was the public’s complete lack of empathy or humanity."
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Should it be an offence to goad someone who threatens to commit suicide? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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When I was a little kid,I used to protest to my mum when I was being told off,,,,''But **** told me to do it''.
She would counter with, ''If **** told you to jump off a cliff,would you?''
That person chose to jump,nobody made them.
All my sympathy for that persons desperate plight and I think the taunts from the crowd were extremely distasteful but,,,,they didn't force the person to jump. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The more I read stuff like this the more I look around and think just how little we value life people each other.
Somewhere parents are hurting friends are crying and the world has lost another who would have changed it in their own way.
Where is the  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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 I'm just going to pretend I didn't read this thread. Anyone who wants evidence that the Internet is frying our heads need only read the op. I don't care what you say. That shit never would have happened before the web came along. Now everyone thinks it's just a funny game messing with others feelings then videoing it and posting it to YT. Someone else posted yesterday about intervening in a fight only to realise afterwards that a bunch of people were hanging around videoing it.
I'm with Hine. Humanity really needs to reconnect with its heart and that's sad |
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By *MP3Man
over a year ago
Between Scylla and Charybdis |
" I'm just going to pretend I didn't read this thread. Anyone who wants evidence that the Internet is frying our heads need only read the op. I don't care what you say. That shit never would have happened before the web came along. Now everyone thinks it's just a funny game messing with others feelings then videoing it and posting it to YT. Someone else posted yesterday about intervening in a fight only to realise afterwards that a bunch of people were hanging around videoing it.
I'm with Hine. Humanity really needs to reconnect with its heart and that's sad "
Absolutely. This type of sociopathic behaviour is utterly vile. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Could it be classed as "hate speech"? I'd be a bit wary of starting to police what people can or can't say otherwise - we may not like what they're saying, but do they still have the right to say it? |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
" I'm just going to pretend I didn't read this thread. Anyone who wants evidence that the Internet is frying our heads need only read the op. I don't care what you say. That shit never would have happened before the web came along. Now everyone thinks it's just a funny game messing with others feelings then videoing it and posting it to YT. Someone else posted yesterday about intervening in a fight only to realise afterwards that a bunch of people were hanging around videoing it.
I'm with Hine. Humanity really needs to reconnect with its heart and that's sad "
This type of thing has always gone on the only difference nowadays is the publicity through social media |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" I'm just going to pretend I didn't read this thread. Anyone who wants evidence that the Internet is frying our heads need only read the op. I don't care what you say. That shit never would have happened before the web came along. Now everyone thinks it's just a funny game messing with others feelings then videoing it and posting it to YT. Someone else posted yesterday about intervening in a fight only to realise afterwards that a bunch of people were hanging around videoing it.
I'm with Hine. Humanity really needs to reconnect with its heart and that's sad "
This ...  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Rather than senior Police pontificating about anything after the event why were they not moving these idiots off out of the way? Why were they failing to 'Keep the Peace'?
Police have become bloody social workers rather than making people behave and taking them away when they don't.
By the way the offence these people committed was 'Obstructing an Officer in the course of his Duty" and the fact the Police during those 3 hours failed to nick anyone makes my point. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
No doubt the people goading the poor individuals had their camera phones at the ready.
It's not a crime for a person to lack empathy. But it does tell you we have some real shitbags in our midst.
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
" I'm just going to pretend I didn't read this thread. Anyone who wants evidence that the Internet is frying our heads need only read the op. I don't care what you say. That shit never would have happened before the web came along. Now everyone thinks it's just a funny game messing with others feelings then videoing it and posting it to YT. Someone else posted yesterday about intervening in a fight only to realise afterwards that a bunch of people were hanging around videoing it.
I'm with Hine. Humanity really needs to reconnect with its heart and that's sad "
Sadly, I don't think it's only because of the internet. Public hanging was rife with similar behaviour. Homeless people and disabled people were attacked and goaded long before the internet. School bullies have driven people to do degrading things for laughs.
It sickens me and I think the internet and 24 hour news has added to our knowledge of the worst of humanity. For some that will be enough to give them license to join in or lead the chant.
We would need a new law.
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On so many levels it’s despicable behaviour . By all parties , the jumper , the goaders , and the police .
First off the jumper , to do this in a public place with innocent children around . For them to witness this could be a life changing episode . I recall last year walking through the City Centre with our ten year old son . We were playing Pokémon go , and we passed a car park where a fire engine , an ambulance a police were parked up . The fire crew were blasting the pavement with water jets and the red in it was a major clue . We turned round pretty quickly and went to a nearby chip shop . Only to hear everyone talking very loudly about the girl who had just jumped from the top floor of the car park . Our lad was traumatised for weeks afterwards , and we still don’t walk that route a year later .
The people goading those who threaten to jump are just sick in the head .
And the police should move them on , and if it isn’t an offence to encourage them to jump , it should be . |
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Not another "something must be done" just "pass a law and it will all go away" shout.
It's not more laws we need it's more compassion and a regaining of self-respect that frowns on both selfishness and the mob mentality culture that run in parallel throughout today's society.
We don't need yet more laws to feed the ever growing revenue earning burden of the Americanisation of our legal processes.
We already have the necessary laws.
You do realise that the police have the power to disperse a crowd that assembles in that way? "Nothing to see here, move along".
They also have the power to arrest onlookers whose actions (verbal or physical) make the situation more difficult. It's called obstructing an officer in the execution of his/her duty. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The more people try to tell me that the human race is an evolved species, the more I'm convinced we are all still just a bunch of howling monkeys, happy to see others fall if it means more fruit on the tree for us. Wearing clothes and carrying phones doesn't make us any better than the rest of the animals walking the earth |
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" I'm just going to pretend I didn't read this thread. Anyone who wants evidence that the Internet is frying our heads need only read the op. I don't care what you say. That shit never would have happened before the web came along. Now everyone thinks it's just a funny game messing with others feelings then videoing it and posting it to YT. Someone else posted yesterday about intervening in a fight only to realise afterwards that a bunch of people were hanging around videoing it.
I'm with Hine. Humanity really needs to reconnect with its heart and that's sad
This type of thing has always gone on the only difference nowadays is the publicity through social media"
I agree.
I remember my mum telling me that she was waiting on a platform and someone tried to jump. He was pulled back and a couple of guys was trying beat seven bells out of them because his jump would've made them late for work...
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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People have always been drawn to public executions in the past they even took picnics The internet wasn't around when the coliseum was pulling in the crowds .
You can't blame the youth of today or social media .The spectacle of watching someone die has always drawn a crowd . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" I'm just going to pretend I didn't read this thread. Anyone who wants evidence that the Internet is frying our heads need only read the op. I don't care what you say. That shit never would have happened before the web came along. Now everyone thinks it's just a funny game messing with others feelings then videoing it and posting it to YT. Someone else posted yesterday about intervening in a fight only to realise afterwards that a bunch of people were hanging around videoing it.
I'm with Hine. Humanity really needs to reconnect with its heart and that's sad
Sadly, I don't think it's only because of the internet. Public hanging was rife with similar behaviour. Homeless people and disabled people were attacked and goaded long before the internet. School bullies have driven people to do degrading things for laughs.
It sickens me and I think the internet and 24 hour news has added to our knowledge of the worst of humanity. For some that will be enough to give them license to join in or lead the chant.
We would need a new law.
"
Or just for people to change.
If they wouldn't want it done to them why do they think it's OK to do it to others? |
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By *umblefunMan
over a year ago
London/ South East |
This! The more people try to tell me that the human race is an evolved species, the more I'm convinced we are all still just a bunch of howling monkeys, happy to see others fall if it means more fruit on the tree for us. Wearing clothes and carrying phones doesn't make us any better than the rest of the animals walking the earth :- This! |
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For those looking for something good at least, there's lots of videos on Youtube and stories of not only people convincing people to step away from the edge but dragging them back to save them so it isn't all negative.
That being said, I think the police should have forced those people away and if they refused charge them with obstruction. If people can be sent to jail for grooming a person to commit suicide, why should it be different standards when a mob does it? |
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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
Awful though it is - it's been happening for a long time and since before the internet as Lickety suggests - in fact to put some context round both the stories mentioned: the first is from 2008 so 10 years old, so doesn't lessen the horrific actions of the crowd but does show it's not a new phenomenon.
The second is from 2017 and was actually about someone not threatening to kill themselves but to jump from a relatively low bridge into a river as a form of protest and cry for help against the situation he was in - again doesn't condone the goading of the crowd but provides a little more context to the story.
Sadly people have always been cruel and mob mentality does take over in those situations and that goes right back in time to the days before the internet - it's just more widely visible these days due to technology and available media - which doesn't make it any better than the baying mob at a public hanging, or the crowds that attended gladitorial events - it's for us as individuals to use our own moral compass and not be drawn into that mob mentality.
There is however a world of difference between goading someone to jump off a bridge in reality and that of posting an opinion on an internet forum which I suspect is the parallel the OP is trying to draw based on comments in other threads elsewhere. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Most depends, it's so sad when people get to the point that they feel there's no way out but to end it all, these goading people are disgusting, but there is to many people in this world with the wrong attitude to stuff, in the words of the great rick male "why can't we all just get along". I once got slapped by a young, very d*unk women, who thought it would be a good idea to lay down in the main road and get run over, the only way i could get her out the road was grab her and drag, not the nicest way, but hey i still see her round town, not that she seems to remember |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think the police could have found plenty of reasons to corden off the area and move people on. Probably down to resources that they didn't!
God knows what makes some people tick. Getting kicks from others misfortune isn't a new human trait though. It used to be a good day out, a public execution or watching someone being ripped apart by lions.
where is the empathy?
Where is the love?
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By *issmorganWoman
over a year ago
Calderdale innit |
"No doubt the people goading the poor individuals had their camera phones at the ready.
It's not a crime for a person to lack empathy. But it does tell you we have some real shitbags in our midst.
"
This,how horrific
That person was obviously desperate and some complete twunts took advantage of that. |
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"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more "
You do realise everybody had a very strong faith in the medieval period? |
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"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more
You do realise everybody had a very strong faith in the medieval period? "
Common misconception |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more "
Not sure I agree with any of that I'm afraid.
Our youth of today are learning far more about tolerance, diversity, understanding and feelings and amongst all the emotive language used by the gutter media there are marvellous things happening.
Yes there are people who are simply distasteful and struggle to fit into society, but they be been around for years and years.
People aren't always nice, be they young or old. Simples? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Offence no, should people do it - No. Regulating behaviour shouldn't always be the default option as it simply absolves people from personal responsibility for thinking morally. "
That's a really good point, public shaming then - at least that allows us to regulate ourselves as a community. |
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"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more
You do realise everybody had a very strong faith in the medieval period? "
Quite, and the monarchy hasn’t ‘imposed’ anything on the population since the 17th century, but our elected representatives certainly have. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" I'm just going to pretend I didn't read this thread. Anyone who wants evidence that the Internet is frying our heads need only read the op. I don't care what you say. That shit never would have happened before the web came along. Now everyone thinks it's just a funny game messing with others feelings then videoing it and posting it to YT. Someone else posted yesterday about intervening in a fight only to realise afterwards that a bunch of people were hanging around videoing it.
I'm with Hine. Humanity really needs to reconnect with its heart and that's sad "
Once you lift the lid on Pandoras box No getting it all back in thar jar. |
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It’s horrible that people do that. I did psychology as a student, and this sort of thing was covered. Basically group psychology where people will act completely out of character in a group to how they would as an individual.
Along with thing like if someone is lying hurt on a busy pavement most people will not stop to help. Basically the diffusion of responsibility, the idea that it is not our responsibility, but rather the collective responsibility of the group.
It’s always been one of the more interesting things I’ve remembered.
It’s also amazing what people will do if they have been told to do it by someone in authority. The most horrific example might be the guards in the Nazi death camps. No one would imagine they could or would do what they did, but sadly something like the Stanley Milgrim experiments suggest otherwise. Have a Google if you’re not familiar- it’s pretty interesting. |
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"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more
Not sure I agree with any of that I'm afraid.
Our youth of today are learning far more about tolerance, diversity, understanding and feelings and amongst all the emotive language used by the gutter media there are marvellous things happening.
Yes there are people who are simply distasteful and struggle to fit into society, but they be been around for years and years.
People aren't always nice, be they young or old. Simples?"
Disagree I'm afriad. Young people are being brainwashed into an ideology around tolerance and acceptance of pre-defined approved groups. Universities are staffed by 80% left wing lecturers and 68% of secondary school teachers vote Labour compared to just 8% conservative, despite the fact that more of the population voted conservative at the time. You never hear the diversity police saying they want more diversity of opinion in education (i.e. more conservative or right wing view). It's a certain type of diversity they want, that isn't actually very diverse. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The "its always been this way" call to passive acceptance of moral relativists sometimes really pisses me off.
Hey! We're going to have driverless cars soon!
Oh we've always had driverless cars. I once let my handbrake off on one of mine and it rolled down a hill
It's you guys that the "if enough good people do nothing" remark was made for. Don't just stand there in the crowd watching it all unfold thinking "oh well I suppose this is just normal". It isn't. Grrrrrr |
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"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more
You do realise everybody had a very strong faith in the medieval period?
Common misconception"
It was compulsory to be a Christian in the middle ages in England(at least after the expulsion of the Jews in 1290) and the average person had no other education other than what the church told them.
Hence belief in the Christian myths was the common sense of the age. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Has anyone blamed video games ...?
I think we have been desensitised to violence due to movies and entertainment .But not as much as the generations who went through 2 wars.
I think our loss of faith is a positive thing so there's no putting the blame at a secular society .The youth of today show far more tolerance than any of the oldies I meet with their prejudices and being set in their ways. |
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"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more
You do realise everybody had a very strong faith in the medieval period?
Common misconception
It was compulsory to be a Christian in the middle ages in England(at least after the expulsion of the Jews in 1290) and the average person had no other education other than what the church told them.
Hence belief in the Christian myths was the common sense of the age. "
And yet an educated reading of the subject shows that there were always plenty of people who didn't believe, there have even been popes who has dubious levels of faith. Many people probably went along with the crowd, especially if it got them some time off work. Human nature has always been human nature and people have never liked being told what to do or being told they can't endulge a pleasure. One of the major biases of lefties is that they implicitly think that the majority of people who lived more than 100 years ago were stupid. They weren't. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I remember watching a Derren Brown programme which was like an experiment on mob mentality, people can be wankers when there's a crowd and say things they wouldn't say had they no audience.
Also 3 hours negotiating, they could have brought out the emergency air cushion for the bottom, 60ft what's that about 30% of terminal velocity, cushion would have saved them especially as it was a car park and assuming you could access the ground.
I've cleaned up many a death from height, 60ft fatality would've been a relatively contained easy to clean area. |
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"Has anyone blamed video games ...?
I think we have been desensitised to violence due to movies and entertainment .But not as much as the generations who went through 2 wars.
I think our loss of faith is a positive thing so there's no putting the blame at a secular society .The youth of today show far more tolerance than any of the oldies I meet with their prejudices and being set in their ways."
Academic studies have shown there's no link between video games and violence. It's just a populist, intutaive bias against fun. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I remember watching a Derren Brown programme which was like an experiment on mob mentality, people can be wankers when there's a crowd and say things they wouldn't say had they no audience.
Also 3 hours negotiating, they could have brought out the emergency air cushion for the bottom, 60ft what's that about 30% of terminal velocity, cushion would have saved them especially as it was a car park and assuming you could access the ground.
I've cleaned up many a death from height, 60ft fatality would've been a relatively contained easy to clean area. "
I was thinking the same thing why the fuck didn't they get an air cushion or a bouncy castle or anything to break the fall .  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Has anyone blamed video games ...?
I think we have been desensitised to violence due to movies and entertainment .But not as much as the generations who went through 2 wars.
I think our loss of faith is a positive thing so there's no putting the blame at a secular society .The youth of today show far more tolerance than any of the oldies I meet with their prejudices and being set in their ways.
Academic studies have shown there's no link between video games and violence. It's just a populist, intutaive bias against fun. "
I guess your a fan of online gaming.  |
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"Has anyone blamed video games ...?
I think we have been desensitised to violence due to movies and entertainment .But not as much as the generations who went through 2 wars.
I think our loss of faith is a positive thing so there's no putting the blame at a secular society .The youth of today show far more tolerance than any of the oldies I meet with their prejudices and being set in their ways.
Academic studies have shown there's no link between video games and violence. It's just a populist, intutaive bias against fun.
I guess your a fan of online gaming. "
Offline gaming, yes. I'm not wasting my life getting killed by 11 year old Americans who can afford to play 40 hours a week. |
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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"The "its always been this way" call to passive acceptance of moral relativists sometimes really pisses me off.
Hey! We're going to have driverless cars soon!
Oh we've always had driverless cars. I once let my handbrake off on one of mine and it rolled down a hill
It's you guys that the "if enough good people do nothing" remark was made for. Don't just stand there in the crowd watching it all unfold thinking "oh well I suppose this is just normal". It isn't. Grrrrrr "
No-one's suggested it's acceptable or accepted in the slightest - in fact I don't think anyone has suggested it's anything but vile to stand in a crowd and bay for someone to jump to their death - BUT it's also relevant that it's not a new phenomenon either, and is something that has happened in one way or another since the dawning of time.
Doesn't make it any more right or necessarily that a law is needed to counter it, that doesn't exist already. I also don't think it's necessarily a reflection of society today, hence the relevance of recognising that it's always happened.
As I said earlier it's down to each of us as individuals to use our own moral compass and where necessary/possible stand up against actions we find reprehensible. |
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"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more
You do realise everybody had a very strong faith in the medieval period?
Common misconception
It was compulsory to be a Christian in the middle ages in England(at least after the expulsion of the Jews in 1290) and the average person had no other education other than what the church told them.
Hence belief in the Christian myths was the common sense of the age.
And yet an educated reading of the subject shows that there were always plenty of people who didn't believe, there have even been popes who has dubious levels of faith. Many people probably went along with the crowd, especially if it got them some time off work. Human nature has always been human nature and people have never liked being told what to do or being told they can't endulge a pleasure. One of the major biases of lefties is that they implicitly think that the majority of people who lived more than 100 years ago were stupid. They weren't. "
So you speculate, that despite the overwhelming historical evidence that virtually everyone in medieval England explicitly said they were Christians, that you decide that they didn't really mean it and just wanted some time off work.
Name me one text from medieval England where someone explicitly denied the existence of God. |
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"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more
You do realise everybody had a very strong faith in the medieval period?
Common misconception
It was compulsory to be a Christian in the middle ages in England(at least after the expulsion of the Jews in 1290) and the average person had no other education other than what the church told them.
Hence belief in the Christian myths was the common sense of the age.
And yet an educated reading of the subject shows that there were always plenty of people who didn't believe, there have even been popes who has dubious levels of faith. Many people probably went along with the crowd, especially if it got them some time off work. Human nature has always been human nature and people have never liked being told what to do or being told they can't endulge a pleasure. One of the major biases of lefties is that they implicitly think that the majority of people who lived more than 100 years ago were stupid. They weren't.
So you speculate, that despite the overwhelming historical evidence that virtually everyone in medieval England explicitly said they were Christians, that you decide that they didn't really mean it and just wanted some time off work.
Name me one text from medieval England where someone explicitly denied the existence of God. "
I'd have to dig it out because funnily enough I don't carry references to medieval texts around with me. Frankly I can't be bothered. As i said, it's just a left wing bias that lefties want to think they are so enlightened now and everyone else before them was stupid. I'll leave you to it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more
You do realise everybody had a very strong faith in the medieval period?
Common misconception
It was compulsory to be a Christian in the middle ages in England(at least after the expulsion of the Jews in 1290) and the average person had no other education other than what the church told them.
Hence belief in the Christian myths was the common sense of the age.
And yet an educated reading of the subject shows that there were always plenty of people who didn't believe, there have even been popes who has dubious levels of faith. Many people probably went along with the crowd, especially if it got them some time off work. Human nature has always been human nature and people have never liked being told what to do or being told they can't endulge a pleasure. One of the major biases of lefties is that they implicitly think that the majority of people who lived more than 100 years ago were stupid. They weren't.
So you speculate, that despite the overwhelming historical evidence that virtually everyone in medieval England explicitly said they were Christians, that you decide that they didn't really mean it and just wanted some time off work.
Name me one text from medieval England where someone explicitly denied the existence of God. "
I'm hazarding a guess that those were burnt, along with the author. |
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"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more
You do realise everybody had a very strong faith in the medieval period?
Common misconception
It was compulsory to be a Christian in the middle ages in England(at least after the expulsion of the Jews in 1290) and the average person had no other education other than what the church told them.
Hence belief in the Christian myths was the common sense of the age.
And yet an educated reading of the subject shows that there were always plenty of people who didn't believe, there have even been popes who has dubious levels of faith. Many people probably went along with the crowd, especially if it got them some time off work. Human nature has always been human nature and people have never liked being told what to do or being told they can't endulge a pleasure. One of the major biases of lefties is that they implicitly think that the majority of people who lived more than 100 years ago were stupid. They weren't.
So you speculate, that despite the overwhelming historical evidence that virtually everyone in medieval England explicitly said they were Christians, that you decide that they didn't really mean it and just wanted some time off work.
Name me one text from medieval England where someone explicitly denied the existence of God.
I'd have to dig it out because funnily enough I don't carry references to medieval texts around with me. Frankly I can't be bothered. As i said, it's just a left wing bias that lefties want to think they are so enlightened now and everyone else before them was stupid. I'll leave you to it. "
Interesting that you think people who believed in religion were stupid. As it happens it's completely the opposite to what I think. It makes no sense to say people in any one period were more stupid than any other period. I don't believe in the enormous condescension of posterity as a Marxist historian once put it.
There isn't any medieval texts that are explicitly atheist. It was common for people of one religion to accuse other people who believed in other religions to be atheists, but atheism was virtually non existent in the West between the fall of the Roman empire and the 17th. Century. |
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"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more
You do realise everybody had a very strong faith in the medieval period?
Common misconception
It was compulsory to be a Christian in the middle ages in England(at least after the expulsion of the Jews in 1290) and the average person had no other education other than what the church told them.
Hence belief in the Christian myths was the common sense of the age.
And yet an educated reading of the subject shows that there were always plenty of people who didn't believe, there have even been popes who has dubious levels of faith. Many people probably went along with the crowd, especially if it got them some time off work. Human nature has always been human nature and people have never liked being told what to do or being told they can't endulge a pleasure. One of the major biases of lefties is that they implicitly think that the majority of people who lived more than 100 years ago were stupid. They weren't.
So you speculate, that despite the overwhelming historical evidence that virtually everyone in medieval England explicitly said they were Christians, that you decide that they didn't really mean it and just wanted some time off work.
Name me one text from medieval England where someone explicitly denied the existence of God.
I'm hazarding a guess that those were burnt, along with the author. "
But if that were the case, we would still have references from the people who did the burning, even if we didn't have the texts themselves. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A poll taken in the UK,in August 2014, estimated that 1.2 million people had watched the beheading of James Foley in the few days after it was released.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When I was a little kid,I used to protest to my mum when I was being told off,,,,''But **** told me to do it''.
She would counter with, ''If **** told you to jump off a cliff,would you?''
That person chose to jump,nobody made them.
All my sympathy for that persons desperate plight and I think the taunts from the crowd were extremely distasteful but,,,,they didn't force the person to jump."
If you are already mentally vulnerable... the shouting and taunts from a crowd could mitigate the end result... nothing new finding out some humans are horrendous... |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"What i find most interesting is that assisted suicide through euthenasia is illegal and punishable, there's some double standards going on here."
It's unlikely assistance would be offered for mental trauma, and no one arguing for it.
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By *uciyassMan
over a year ago
sheffield |
"I remember watching a Derren Brown programme which was like an experiment on mob mentality, people can be wankers when there's a crowd and say things they wouldn't say had they no audience.
Also 3 hours negotiating, they could have brought out the emergency air cushion for the bottom, 60ft what's that about 30% of terminal velocity, cushion would have saved them especially as it was a car park and assuming you could access the ground.
I've cleaned up many a death from height, 60ft fatality would've been a relatively contained easy to clean area. "
O now I’m totally intrigued by this. So a death from 60ft is easy to clean! I know that a death by sucide by drowning may sound easy to clean but it’s not but a sudden impact death cannot be easily cleaned !?!?? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I remember watching a Derren Brown programme which was like an experiment on mob mentality, people can be wankers when there's a crowd and say things they wouldn't say had they no audience.
Also 3 hours negotiating, they could have brought out the emergency air cushion for the bottom, 60ft what's that about 30% of terminal velocity, cushion would have saved them especially as it was a car park and assuming you could access the ground.
I've cleaned up many a death from height, 60ft fatality would've been a relatively contained easy to clean area.
O now I’m totally intrigued by this. So a death from 60ft is easy to clean! I know that a death by sucide by drowning may sound easy to clean but it’s not but a sudden impact death cannot be easily cleaned !?!??"
Ahhh I just love it when two cleaners of death meet. It's soooo romantic  |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"On so many levels it’s despicable behaviour . By all parties , the jumper , the goaders , and the police .
First off the jumper , to do this in a public place with innocent children around .
."
I am not sure someone at that point would in the right mind to think of others |
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By *uciyassMan
over a year ago
sheffield |
"I remember watching a Derren Brown programme which was like an experiment on mob mentality, people can be wankers when there's a crowd and say things they wouldn't say had they no audience.
Also 3 hours negotiating, they could have brought out the emergency air cushion for the bottom, 60ft what's that about 30% of terminal velocity, cushion would have saved them especially as it was a car park and assuming you could access the ground.
I've cleaned up many a death from height, 60ft fatality would've been a relatively contained easy to clean area.
O now I’m totally intrigued by this. So a death from 60ft is easy to clean! I know that a death by sucide by drowning may sound easy to clean but it’s not but a sudden impact death cannot be easily cleaned !?!??
Ahhh I just love it when two cleaners of death meet. It's soooo romantic "
 |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"For those looking for something good at least, there's lots of videos on Youtube and stories of not only people convincing people to step away from the edge but dragging them back to save them so it isn't all negative.
That being said, I think the police should have forced those people away and if they refused charge them with obstruction. If people can be sent to jail for grooming a person to commit suicide, why should it be different standards when a mob does it?"
"A teenager who attached uplifting messages to a bridge to help people facing a mental health crisis has helped save six lives, police said."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-44916409
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By *uciyassMan
over a year ago
sheffield |
"For those looking for something good at least, there's lots of videos on Youtube and stories of not only people convincing people to step away from the edge but dragging them back to save them so it isn't all negative.
That being said, I think the police should have forced those people away and if they refused charge them with obstruction. If people can be sent to jail for grooming a person to commit suicide, why should it be different standards when a mob does it?
"A teenager who attached uplifting messages to a bridge to help people facing a mental health crisis has helped save six lives, police said."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-44916409
I saw this in the news too. Was a very brave and inspirational thing to do
"
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"What i find most interesting is that assisted suicide through euthenasia is illegal and punishable, there's some double standards going on here."
I agree. I did have a quick look to see if goading people is against the law and the search results gave a site about the law around suicide.
People can goad on a bridge but can't assist people that want to kill themselves. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No not at all no matter how much people are goaded in the end its the one whocommits suiside who is responcible for there own actions if somebody goaded a person to commit a crime is that a defence they could use no they would still be punnished goaded or not |
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"After the fucking downright disgusting things i read of late the only thing that shocks me is no cunt videoed it. I think weve reached an all time low"
Never say that on the internet, that's how we end up with the tide pod challenge |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"When I was a little kid,I used to protest to my mum when I was being told off,,,,''But **** told me to do it''.
She would counter with, ''If **** told you to jump off a cliff,would you?''
That person chose to jump,nobody made them.
All my sympathy for that persons desperate plight and I think the taunts from the crowd were extremely distasteful but,,,,they didn't force the person to jump.
If you are already mentally vulnerable... the shouting and taunts from a crowd could mitigate the end result... nothing new finding out some humans are horrendous..."
Yet posting comments on an internet forum is seen as different.
We don't know what's going on behind the screen. That 'opinion' posted in a negative way from many people might push that person over the edge. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No not at all no matter how much people are goaded in the end its the one whocommits suiside who is responcible for there own actions if somebody goaded a person to commit a crime is that a defence they could use no they would still be punnished goaded or not"
I disagree.
If someone is contemplating jumping (i.e they haven’t jumped straight away) then i think they are waiting for a reason not to jump.
A mob below you, shouting all sorts of nasty shit and encouraging you to jump, would maybe tip that person from “should i/shouldn’t i” to “fuck it, i’m doing it”. I bet the negotiator trying to talk the poor person down was wishing the mob would fuck off because they are counter productive.
Ultimately it’s the person that’s jumped that has jumped, but in that sort of instance, the mob have pushed.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more
You do realise everybody had a very strong faith in the medieval period?
Common misconception
It was compulsory to be a Christian in the middle ages in England(at least after the expulsion of the Jews in 1290) and the average person had no other education other than what the church told them.
Hence belief in the Christian myths was the common sense of the age.
And yet an educated reading of the subject shows that there were always plenty of people who didn't believe, there have even been popes who has dubious levels of faith. Many people probably went along with the crowd, especially if it got them some time off work. Human nature has always been human nature and people have never liked being told what to do or being told they can't endulge a pleasure. One of the major biases of lefties is that they implicitly think that the majority of people who lived more than 100 years ago were stupid. They weren't.
So you speculate, that despite the overwhelming historical evidence that virtually everyone in medieval England explicitly said they were Christians, that you decide that they didn't really mean it and just wanted some time off work.
Name me one text from medieval England where someone explicitly denied the existence of God.
I'd have to dig it out because funnily enough I don't carry references to medieval texts around with me. Frankly I can't be bothered. As i said, it's just a left wing bias that lefties want to think they are so enlightened now and everyone else before them was stupid. I'll leave you to it.
Interesting that you think people who believed in religion were stupid. As it happens it's completely the opposite to what I think. It makes no sense to say people in any one period were more stupid than any other period. I don't believe in the enormous condescension of posterity as a Marxist historian once put it.
There isn't any medieval texts that are explicitly atheist. It was common for people of one religion to accuse other people who believed in other religions to be atheists, but atheism was virtually non existent in the West between the fall of the Roman empire and the 17th. Century. "
True dat Pretty much the only people who were able to read and write in the Middle Ages were the clergy and the gentry. The Cathars caused a few problems, but they weren't God deniers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When I was a little kid,I used to protest to my mum when I was being told off,,,,''But **** told me to do it''.
She would counter with, ''If **** told you to jump off a cliff,would you?''
That person chose to jump,nobody made them.
All my sympathy for that persons desperate plight and I think the taunts from the crowd were extremely distasteful but,,,,they didn't force the person to jump.
If you are already mentally vulnerable... the shouting and taunts from a crowd could mitigate the end result... nothing new finding out some humans are horrendous..."
I'm not so sure that's true in my experience.
Human connection and communication in a caring manner can alter mindsets at critical moments. Those that are fully committed to the idea just do it straight off.
Many don't wish to die, but also don't wish to live in the way they are, so a caring compassionate approach may help them see a path out of the pain. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Bollocks. It's an offence under S.2 of the suicide Act 1961 to do an act that encourages or assists suicide or attempted suicide-14 years imprisonment on conviction. Bearing in mind that can be committed online, I would have thought shouting at the scene with loads of witnesses, including Police present, shouldn't be a problem. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Bollocks. It's an offence under S.2 of the suicide Act 1961 to do an act that encourages or assists suicide or attempted suicide-14 years imprisonment on conviction. Bearing in mind that can be committed online, I would have thought shouting at the scene with loads of witnesses, including Police present, shouldn't be a problem."
Bollocks to what bit exactly? Quoting the law without a full understanding of the act? |
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"No not at all no matter how much people are goaded in the end its the one whocommits suiside who is responcible for there own actions if somebody goaded a person to commit a crime is that a defence they could use no they would still be punnished goaded or not
I disagree.
If someone is contemplating jumping (i.e they haven’t jumped straight away) then i think they are waiting for a reason not to jump.
A mob below you, shouting all sorts of nasty shit and encouraging you to jump, would maybe tip that person from “should i/shouldn’t i” to “fuck it, i’m doing it”. I bet the negotiator trying to talk the poor person down was wishing the mob would fuck off because they are counter productive.
Ultimately it’s the person that’s jumped that has jumped, but in that sort of instance, the mob have pushed.
"
Very true, espcially when you see how emergency services (Usually see the police more with this as first ones called) always try to talk to the person, start chatting, create a connection with them. That sometimes works to convince them back from the edge, sometimes it's used as a distraction so their partners can approach from a different angle to pull them from the edge.
In what world does having a baying crowd who for lack of a decency may as be shouting "WE DEMAND BLOOD" by saying jump help? It's situations like this that tells more about the character of a person in the mob shouting than the person on the edge. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I remember watching a Derren Brown programme which was like an experiment on mob mentality, people can be wankers when there's a crowd and say things they wouldn't say had they no audience.
Also 3 hours negotiating, they could have brought out the emergency air cushion for the bottom, 60ft what's that about 30% of terminal velocity, cushion would have saved them especially as it was a car park and assuming you could access the ground.
I've cleaned up many a death from height, 60ft fatality would've been a relatively contained easy to clean area.
O now I’m totally intrigued by this. So a death from 60ft is easy to clean! I know that a death by sucide by drowning may sound easy to clean but it’s not but a sudden impact death cannot be easily cleaned !?!??"
Well yeah, we didn't touch whole body parts, crime, accident or suicide have different rules but whenever we got there it would be as the little black ambulance was taking the deceased.
I've never cleaned a suicide by drowning, had people kill themselves in bath tubs or driving vehicles into the sea but the body is removed from the car whole and they crush the car so don't have enough experience with water deaths. Actually never even done any training for water deaths, just needle paraphernalia, vomit, blood, poop, brain matter, body tissue and fluids. I remember something about resetting the chemical balance in a swimming pool if a dead body was in it and also if someone poops or vomits in a pool they scoop out offending items and again reset the chemicals in the pool and have to wait for the level to be safe before allowing anyone in but I know that from working in the pool and witnessing what happens when there's spew in the water not from my biohazardous waste training.
A 60ft death from a fall the body will be reasonably in tact and whole, there'd be blood, skull and brain tissue there obviously but it wouldn't be anything as bad as train track deaths, they were the worst and by worst I mean the most contaminated area in sq ft. |
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By *uciyassMan
over a year ago
sheffield |
"I remember watching a Derren Brown programme which was like an experiment on mob mentality, people can be wankers when there's a crowd and say things they wouldn't say had they no audience.
Also 3 hours negotiating, they could have brought out the emergency air cushion for the bottom, 60ft what's that about 30% of terminal velocity, cushion would have saved them especially as it was a car park and assuming you could access the ground.
I've cleaned up many a death from height, 60ft fatality would've been a relatively contained easy to clean area.
O now I’m totally intrigued by this. So a death from 60ft is easy to clean! I know that a death by sucide by drowning may sound easy to clean but it’s not but a sudden impact death cannot be easily cleaned !?!??
Well yeah, we didn't touch whole body parts, crime, accident or suicide have different rules but whenever we got there it would be as the little black ambulance was taking the deceased.
I've never cleaned a suicide by drowning, had people kill themselves in bath tubs or driving vehicles into the sea but the body is removed from the car whole and they crush the car so don't have enough experience with water deaths. Actually never even done any training for water deaths, just needle paraphernalia, vomit, blood, poop, brain matter, body tissue and fluids. I remember something about resetting the chemical balance in a swimming pool if a dead body was in it and also if someone poops or vomits in a pool they scoop out offending items and again reset the chemicals in the pool and have to wait for the level to be safe before allowing anyone in but I know that from working in the pool and witnessing what happens when there's spew in the water not from my biohazardous waste training.
A 60ft death from a fall the body will be reasonably in tact and whole, there'd be blood, skull and brain tissue there obviously but it wouldn't be anything as bad as train track deaths, they were the worst and by worst I mean the most contaminated area in sq ft. "
Well you do seem to know your stuff. What training or qualifications would be required for this. It’s not something I’d like to do as I was only a contract rescue diver for the police so can’t say I’d be any good with a mop. But I’m sure you’d need proper training |
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Sad that someone should feel so desperate their only way out was to take their own life.
Sad that some people should see this as entertainment.
Sad that the police did nothing to move the crowd along.
Sad that a family have lost a loved one.
I'm losing my faith in humanity and it's ability to empathise, to reach out, to protect, to respect and to love. |
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Seen this in real life.
The first thing people do now is whip out a phone rather than help a fellow human being.
We are becoming desensitised as a whole. On a mainstream social media platform now you can simply join a sub forum and see people die/murdered/suicide in horrendous circumstances. You get the option to vote and comment on them.
I remember the whole Bluetooth messaging craze when randoms would send you messages in a crowded area. I got sent one of a Russian soldier and it stayed with me to this day.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Sad that someone should feel so desperate their only way out was to take their own life.
Sad that some people should see this as entertainment.
Sad that the police did nothing to move the crowd along.
Sad that a family have lost a loved one.
I'm losing my faith in humanity and it's ability to empathise, to reach out, to protect, to respect and to love."
I've been looking for the flip side- people helping others. There's loads of stories.
"Three brave schoolboys have been hailed as heroes after managing to stop a man from hanging himself from a high bridge.
The boys did not hesitate when they spotted the troubled 21-year-old man on the wrong side of the bridge’s safety barrier with a rope round his neck and preparing to jump."
www.thesun.co.uk/news/5943546/three-hero-schoolboys-save-suicidal-man-about-to-jump-off-bridge/ |
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"Sad that someone should feel so desperate their only way out was to take their own life.
Sad that some people should see this as entertainment.
Sad that the police did nothing to move the crowd along.
Sad that a family have lost a loved one.
I'm losing my faith in humanity and it's ability to empathise, to reach out, to protect, to respect and to love.
I've been looking for the flip side- people helping others. There's loads of stories.
"Three brave schoolboys have been hailed as heroes after managing to stop a man from hanging himself from a high bridge.
The boys did not hesitate when they spotted the troubled 21-year-old man on the wrong side of the bridge’s safety barrier with a rope round his neck and preparing to jump."
www.thesun.co.uk/news/5943546/three-hero-schoolboys-save-suicidal-man-about-to-jump-off-bridge/"
We need more good news, restore the faith stories...... |
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" I'm just going to pretend I didn't read this thread. Anyone who wants evidence that the Internet is frying our heads need only read the op. I don't care what you say. That shit never would have happened before the web came along. Now everyone thinks it's just a funny game messing with others feelings then videoing it and posting it to YT. Someone else posted yesterday about intervening in a fight only to realise afterwards that a bunch of people were hanging around videoing it.
I'm with Hine. Humanity really needs to reconnect with its heart and that's sad
Absolutely. This type of sociopathic behaviour is utterly vile."
And yet we see this lack of even basic human decency daily online. It beggars belief, I despair of humanity, I really do. |
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"Sad that someone should feel so desperate their only way out was to take their own life.
Sad that some people should see this as entertainment.
Sad that the police did nothing to move the crowd along.
Sad that a family have lost a loved one.
I'm losing my faith in humanity and it's ability to empathise, to reach out, to protect, to respect and to love."
You and me both. |
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"Yes of course that's horrific,if I saw someone ready to jump goading them would be the last thing on my mind.
Absolutely this. I can’t believe people actually film things like this as well "
Some people are either sick or they have seriously weird interests..
Have had ghouls taking pictures as we worked on casualties following a pretty nasty rta and ended up having to ask a copper to stop them as they ignored requests to do so, fair play to the officer who accidently opened the camera and messed the film up.. |
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"Does anyone know anything about the psychology of why some people choose such public methods rather than doing it privately at home? Are they essentially hoping to get talked out of it? "
For many in my limited experiencesof such incidents it is a cry for help, the people are in a very dark place and whether their ability to make choices such as you or I may do day to day is a difficult one..
Some will plan it but I reckon for others they are so bad it's spur of the moment.. |
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"Sad that someone should feel so desperate their only way out was to take their own life.
Sad that some people should see this as entertainment.
Sad that the police did nothing to move the crowd along.
Sad that a family have lost a loved one.
I'm losing my faith in humanity and it's ability to empathise, to reach out, to protect, to respect and to love.
I've been looking for the flip side- people helping others. There's loads of stories.
"Three brave schoolboys have been hailed as heroes after managing to stop a man from hanging himself from a high bridge.
The boys did not hesitate when they spotted the troubled 21-year-old man on the wrong side of the bridge’s safety barrier with a rope round his neck and preparing to jump."
www.thesun.co.uk/news/5943546/three-hero-schoolboys-save-suicidal-man-about-to-jump-off-bridge/"
Just one of the reasons that I choose to read The Sun |
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"Does anyone know anything about the psychology of why some people choose such public methods rather than doing it privately at home? Are they essentially hoping to get talked out of it?
For many in my limited experiencesof such incidents it is a cry for help, the people are in a very dark place and whether their ability to make choices such as you or I may do day to day is a difficult one..
Some will plan it but I reckon for others they are so bad it's spur of the moment.. "
So let's assume that really, they don't want to go through with it otherwise they'd do it quietly at home. Bit of a dick move for people to try and push them into it then. Jeez if they are that desperate then give them what they need. |
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By *rwolfMan
over a year ago
bristol |
Firstly id recommend on posts like this to warn at the start of a "potential trigger warning" purely because no one knows of someone who reads this can be triggered down a bad path.
Most suicides are planned meticulously, thought out till the end... For publically done suicides most are done at known locations, in Bristol we have the suspension bridge (for those not in the know an incident on the portway over the radio is because there is either a suspected jumper or someone has done it) ... With known locations its the draw of it.. Its worked before so it will work this time.
For those who are serious, its not about a cry for help, it is about using the only way out they can see.
But its also worth remembering tbat todays mental health services are drastically underfunded and as a result those in dire need cannot get it when they need it most.
As for those egging the person in this example on... The police should of done a better job at keeping them away from it all... We live in a world where there is always one idiot with a phone recording those moments. The moments where someone is at their most vulnerable.
And before i post this, there are places people can go if they are feeling down from the local Samaritans to local crisis team. All numbers are available online. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Does anyone know anything about the psychology of why some people choose such public methods rather than doing it privately at home? Are they essentially hoping to get talked out of it?
For many in my limited experiencesof such incidents it is a cry for help, the people are in a very dark place and whether their ability to make choices such as you or I may do day to day is a difficult one..
Some will plan it but I reckon for others they are so bad it's spur of the moment..
So let's assume that really, they don't want to go through with it otherwise they'd do it quietly at home. Bit of a dick move for people to try and push them into it then. Jeez if they are that desperate then give them what they need. "
I did a search but ended up reading some stuff I wish I hadn't. |
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Ohh Gosh Atropos do you clean up after these deaths How Grim..
Did you do the guy in Reading who jumped off the top of the Oracle car park some years ago. My poor Husband was first on scene dropped right in front of him.. Was an awful shock to come out the tunnel as he fell. He had to stop all traffic and call police etc.
In answer to OP question how awful to encourage people to jump , cold hearted and cruel. Not sure what they could be prosecuted with though.
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"Does anyone know anything about the psychology of why some people choose such public methods rather than doing it privately at home? Are they essentially hoping to get talked out of it? "
this is something i find very intetesting. I had a friend who was strange very strange his regret was that he hadnt gone.out on the stroke of midnight with a gun to his head. He ended up.just hanging himself from a tree in the garden
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"Does anyone know anything about the psychology of why some people choose such public methods rather than doing it privately at home? Are they essentially hoping to get talked out of it? this is something i find very intetesting. I had a friend who was strange very strange his regret was that he hadnt gone.out on the stroke of midnight with a gun to his head. He ended up.just hanging himself from a tree in the garden"
Would you say he had other mental conditions beyond depression? |
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"Does anyone know anything about the psychology of why some people choose such public methods rather than doing it privately at home? Are they essentially hoping to get talked out of it? this is something i find very intetesting. I had a friend who was strange very strange his regret was that he hadnt gone.out on the stroke of midnight with a gun to his head. He ended up.just hanging himself from a tree in the garden
Would you say he had other mental conditions beyond depression? "
i didnt say he had depression he had done some very dark things in his life and struggled to come to terms with them
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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"When I was a little kid,I used to protest to my mum when I was being told off,,,,''But **** told me to do it''.
She would counter with, ''If **** told you to jump off a cliff,would you?''
That person chose to jump,nobody made them.
All my sympathy for that persons desperate plight and I think the taunts from the crowd were extremely distasteful but,,,,they didn't force the person to jump.
If you are already mentally vulnerable... the shouting and taunts from a crowd could mitigate the end result... nothing new finding out some humans are horrendous...
Yet posting comments on an internet forum is seen as different.
We don't know what's going on behind the screen. That 'opinion' posted in a negative way from many people might push that person over the edge. "
There's a world of difference in most instances though between someone posting something like "Boo hoo my message didn't get read" or "I can't get any meets because my profile refers to women as sluts and all I have are cock pics" and being given an opinion they don't like, and someone standing on a bridge threatening to jump off it - or even posting on a forum that they are stood on a bridge and threatening to jump off it.
Trying to compare the two things or even suggesting one leads to the other is plain ridiculous and in my opinion a tad unsavoury.
No, on an internet forum you don't know what is going on behind the screen at the other end, but you can only deal with what's put before you and give an opinion on it accordingly and like I said there's a world of difference between the two situations.
This morning's thread (about people using the site but not meeting spoiling it for others) was a good example of that - the guy posted something illogical that had no bearing whatsoever on the way the site works, and yet people calmly and reasonably offering their opinion along those lines, were accused of hounding and goading him to jump when he wasn't even stood on a bridge!! |
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For all the years ive been on this site ive been open about my mental illness. Not once have i noticed someone stopping to wonder what im going through before they have a pop at me and nor should they. Forums are sonething we chose to use and can walk away from them at any time |
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" I'm just going to pretend I didn't read this thread. Anyone who wants evidence that the Internet is frying our heads need only read the op. I don't care what you say. That shit never would have happened before the web came along. Now everyone thinks it's just a funny game messing with others feelings then videoing it and posting it to YT. Someone else posted yesterday about intervening in a fight only to realise afterwards that a bunch of people were hanging around videoing it.
I'm with Hine. Humanity really needs to reconnect with its heart and that's sad "
Yes. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"When I was a little kid,I used to protest to my mum when I was being told off,,,,''But **** told me to do it''.
She would counter with, ''If **** told you to jump off a cliff,would you?''
That person chose to jump,nobody made them.
All my sympathy for that persons desperate plight and I think the taunts from the crowd were extremely distasteful but,,,,they didn't force the person to jump.
If you are already mentally vulnerable... the shouting and taunts from a crowd could mitigate the end result... nothing new finding out some humans are horrendous...
Yet posting comments on an internet forum is seen as different.
We don't know what's going on behind the screen. That 'opinion' posted in a negative way from many people might push that person over the edge.
There's a world of difference in most instances though between someone posting something like "Boo hoo my message didn't get read" or "I can't get any meets because my profile refers to women as sluts and all I have are cock pics" and being given an opinion they don't like, and someone standing on a bridge threatening to jump off it - or even posting on a forum that they are stood on a bridge and threatening to jump off it.
Trying to compare the two things or even suggesting one leads to the other is plain ridiculous and in my opinion a tad unsavoury.
No, on an internet forum you don't know what is going on behind the screen at the other end, but you can only deal with what's put before you and give an opinion on it accordingly and like I said there's a world of difference between the two situations.
This morning's thread (about people using the site but not meeting spoiling it for others) was a good example of that - the guy posted something illogical that had no bearing whatsoever on the way the site works, and yet people calmly and reasonably offering their opinion along those lines, were accused of hounding and goading him to jump when he wasn't even stood on a bridge!! "
You don't understand as usual. That's not what I said. Have a lovely day. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"For all the years ive been on this site ive been open about my mental illness. Not once have i noticed someone stopping to wonder what im going through before they have a pop at me and nor should they. Forums are sonething we chose to use and can walk away from them at any time"
People used to help you. You may not remember but they did. |
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"For all the years ive been on this site ive been open about my mental illness. Not once have i noticed someone stopping to wonder what im going through before they have a pop at me and nor should they. Forums are sonething we chose to use and can walk away from them at any time
People used to help you. You may not remember but they did. "
i didnt say that. I said its not stopped people having a pop at me |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"For all the years ive been on this site ive been open about my mental illness. Not once have i noticed someone stopping to wonder what im going through before they have a pop at me and nor should they. Forums are sonething we chose to use and can walk away from them at any time
People used to help you. You may not remember but they did. i didnt say that. I said its not stopped people having a pop at me"
It might have done but you wouldn't know because they didn't say what they were going to say. |
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"For all the years ive been on this site ive been open about my mental illness. Not once have i noticed someone stopping to wonder what im going through before they have a pop at me and nor should they. Forums are sonething we chose to use and can walk away from them at any time
People used to help you. You may not remember but they did. "
you dont stop and think how people will react before you post something |
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"For all the years ive been on this site ive been open about my mental illness. Not once have i noticed someone stopping to wonder what im going through before they have a pop at me and nor should they. Forums are sonething we chose to use and can walk away from them at any time
People used to help you. You may not remember but they did. i didnt say that. I said its not stopped people having a pop at me
It might have done but you wouldn't know because they didn't say what they were going to say. "
but a lot do say what there thinking and i appreciate it. If i cant deal with the forums i fuck off and come back when i can |
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"For all the years ive been on this site ive been open about my mental illness. Not once have i noticed someone stopping to wonder what im going through before they have a pop at me and nor should they. Forums are sonething we chose to use and can walk away from them at any time
People used to help you. You may not remember but they did. "
look at thread you put up about racist. You upset a lot of people and it got removed. I just dont think your in a position to act all mary poppins when you do the exact same thing yourself |
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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"When I was a little kid,I used to protest to my mum when I was being told off,,,,''But **** told me to do it''.
She would counter with, ''If **** told you to jump off a cliff,would you?''
That person chose to jump,nobody made them.
All my sympathy for that persons desperate plight and I think the taunts from the crowd were extremely distasteful but,,,,they didn't force the person to jump.
If you are already mentally vulnerable... the shouting and taunts from a crowd could mitigate the end result... nothing new finding out some humans are horrendous...
Yet posting comments on an internet forum is seen as different.
We don't know what's going on behind the screen. That 'opinion' posted in a negative way from many people might push that person over the edge.
There's a world of difference in most instances though between someone posting something like "Boo hoo my message didn't get read" or "I can't get any meets because my profile refers to women as sluts and all I have are cock pics" and being given an opinion they don't like, and someone standing on a bridge threatening to jump off it - or even posting on a forum that they are stood on a bridge and threatening to jump off it.
Trying to compare the two things or even suggesting one leads to the other is plain ridiculous and in my opinion a tad unsavoury.
No, on an internet forum you don't know what is going on behind the screen at the other end, but you can only deal with what's put before you and give an opinion on it accordingly and like I said there's a world of difference between the two situations.
This morning's thread (about people using the site but not meeting spoiling it for others) was a good example of that - the guy posted something illogical that had no bearing whatsoever on the way the site works, and yet people calmly and reasonably offering their opinion along those lines, were accused of hounding and goading him to jump when he wasn't even stood on a bridge!!
You don't understand as usual. That's not what I said. Have a lovely day. "
I understand perfectly well
And to be clear you said:
""Yet posting comments on an internet forum is seen as different.
We don't know what's going on behind the screen. That 'opinion' posted in a negative way from many people might push that person over the edge.""
Which I've provided two perfectly clear examples of where that would not be the case.
In the earlier thread I referred to you said:
""It happens all the time. Like people goading someone to jump off a bridge. There was a young lad on here not long ago and people did that to him. Thankfully some people realised what was happening and offered him support""
Which was actually not the full context of what happened anyway, but is I suspect the parallel you were attempting to draw with this thread.
If I've misunderstood anything in your opinion, I'd be interested in hearing what exactly as I fail to see what I may have missed - the kind of threads you have referred to as "goading someone to jump off a bridge" are anything but that - this morning's thread being a classic example.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"For all the years ive been on this site ive been open about my mental illness. Not once have i noticed someone stopping to wonder what im going through before they have a pop at me and nor should they. Forums are sonething we chose to use and can walk away from them at any time
People used to help you. You may not remember but they did. look at thread you put up about racist. You upset a lot of people and it got removed. I just dont think your in a position to act all mary poppins when you do the exact same thing yourself"
What thread? I've never said I'm Mary Poppins, quite the opposite. |
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"For all the years ive been on this site ive been open about my mental illness. Not once have i noticed someone stopping to wonder what im going through before they have a pop at me and nor should they. Forums are sonething we chose to use and can walk away from them at any time
People used to help you. You may not remember but they did. look at thread you put up about racist. You upset a lot of people and it got removed. I just dont think your in a position to act all mary poppins when you do the exact same thing yourself
What thread? I've never said I'm Mary Poppins, quite the opposite. "
im sure you remember the thread clearly. .Often you start threads in such away tbey could be seen as offensive by some. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"When I was a little kid,I used to protest to my mum when I was being told off,,,,''But **** told me to do it''.
She would counter with, ''If **** told you to jump off a cliff,would you?''
That person chose to jump,nobody made them.
All my sympathy for that persons desperate plight and I think the taunts from the crowd were extremely distasteful but,,,,they didn't force the person to jump.
If you are already mentally vulnerable... the shouting and taunts from a crowd could mitigate the end result... nothing new finding out some humans are horrendous...
Yet posting comments on an internet forum is seen as different.
We don't know what's going on behind the screen. That 'opinion' posted in a negative way from many people might push that person over the edge.
There's a world of difference in most instances though between someone posting something like "Boo hoo my message didn't get read" or "I can't get any meets because my profile refers to women as sluts and all I have are cock pics" and being given an opinion they don't like, and someone standing on a bridge threatening to jump off it - or even posting on a forum that they are stood on a bridge and threatening to jump off it.
Trying to compare the two things or even suggesting one leads to the other is plain ridiculous and in my opinion a tad unsavoury.
No, on an internet forum you don't know what is going on behind the screen at the other end, but you can only deal with what's put before you and give an opinion on it accordingly and like I said there's a world of difference between the two situations.
This morning's thread (about people using the site but not meeting spoiling it for others) was a good example of that - the guy posted something illogical that had no bearing whatsoever on the way the site works, and yet people calmly and reasonably offering their opinion along those lines, were accused of hounding and goading him to jump when he wasn't even stood on a bridge!!
You don't understand as usual. That's not what I said. Have a lovely day.
I understand perfectly well
And to be clear you said:
"Yet posting comments on an internet forum is seen as different.
We don't know what's going on behind the screen. That 'opinion' posted in a negative way from many people might push that person over the edge."
Which I've provided two perfectly clear examples of where that would not be the case.
In the earlier thread I referred to you said:
"It happens all the time. Like people goading someone to jump off a bridge. There was a young lad on here not long ago and people did that to him. Thankfully some people realised what was happening and offered him support"
Which was actually not the full context of what happened anyway, but is I suspect the parallel you were attempting to draw with this thread.
If I've misunderstood anything in your opinion, I'd be interested in hearing what exactly as I fail to see what I may have missed - the kind of threads you have referred to as "goading someone to jump off a bridge" are anything but that - this morning's thread being a classic example.
"
You take things very literally. My comments were examples I've seen over the years. Obviously this morning's thread wasn't the same. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"For all the years ive been on this site ive been open about my mental illness. Not once have i noticed someone stopping to wonder what im going through before they have a pop at me and nor should they. Forums are sonething we chose to use and can walk away from them at any time
People used to help you. You may not remember but they did. look at thread you put up about racist. You upset a lot of people and it got removed. I just dont think your in a position to act all mary poppins when you do the exact same thing yourself
What thread? I've never said I'm Mary Poppins, quite the opposite. im sure you remember the thread clearly. .Often you start threads in such away tbey could be seen as offensive by some. "
You know my mind better than I do. Please tell me more. |
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"For all the years ive been on this site ive been open about my mental illness. Not once have i noticed someone stopping to wonder what im going through before they have a pop at me and nor should they. Forums are sonething we chose to use and can walk away from them at any time
People used to help you. You may not remember but they did. look at thread you put up about racist. You upset a lot of people and it got removed. I just dont think your in a position to act all mary poppins when you do the exact same thing yourself
What thread? I've never said I'm Mary Poppins, quite the opposite. im sure you remember the thread clearly. .Often you start threads in such away tbey could be seen as offensive by some.
You know my mind better than I do. Please tell me more. "
i dont know your mind. All im saying is sometimes you either start threads on purpose to get a reaction otherwise you dont know your doing it which means your not stopping to think. I cant think of titles of the top of my head but the racist one ive mentioned is a perfect example |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I’ve not really read all the comments so others may have already said this, but yes it should be an offence.
Assisting a suicide is an offence over here already and I’m struggling to find a reason how shouting this sort of abuse at someone who is obviously in a fragile state of mine isn’t encouraging or even assisting in his suicide attempt.
These people should be punished, perhaps meeting the grieving family and seeing the heartache caused by such events have would shock them out of the frame of mind they have.
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"Police said none of those who were shouting at him were actually committing an offence.
But Supt A*, of Derbyshire police, said it was a "disturbing and shocking reflection on society when people feel inclined to do that".'
.
Should it be an offence to goad someone who threatens to commit suicide? "
Baffled by the lack of Police response. A couple of years ago, significant stretches of three of the busiest roads in Aberdeen were closed down to make sure that nobody had a view of a guy who was a risk of jumping. As the streets were being cleared, I heard one guy shout something about jumping, and he was advised he’d be arrested for a Breach of the Peace if he did it again. Perhaps the Superintendent has been away from the sharp end for too long.
I work in the city centre, I’ve seen stretches of roads being closed quite a few times, and the public kept away, and those acting out of line being threatened with arrest. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I wonder if those who provoked, felt horrified when that person actually jumped losing their life. Maybe their conscience then made them lose sleep over it. Let’s hope so.
OP : the issue the police would have is proving that what was said made a difference to the outcome. You’ll never know and thats why they’d never be able to charge someone with an offence. |
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"OP : the issue the police would have is proving that what was said made a difference to the outcome. You’ll never know and thats why they’d never be able to charge someone with an offence. "
Incorrect. The result is immaterial. |
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" I'm just going to pretend I didn't read this thread. Anyone who wants evidence that the Internet is frying our heads need only read the op. I don't care what you say. That shit never would have happened before the web came along. Now everyone thinks it's just a funny game messing with others feelings then videoing it and posting it to YT. Someone else posted yesterday about intervening in a fight only to realise afterwards that a bunch of people were hanging around videoing it.
I'm with Hine. Humanity really needs to reconnect with its heart and that's sad "
This 110% this |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"OP : the issue the police would have is proving that what was said made a difference to the outcome. You’ll never know and thats why they’d never be able to charge someone with an offence.
Incorrect. The result is immaterial."
So why did the police not charge anyone, it sounds like they should have ? Or is there no offence currently for doing what they Did? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Also, there’s a fair amount of misunderstanding the thought processes of the suicidal."
I doubt anyone could really understand, it must be a very dark place to be |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"OP : the issue the police would have is proving that what was said made a difference to the outcome. You’ll never know and thats why they’d never be able to charge someone with an offence.
Incorrect. The result is immaterial.
So why did the police not charge anyone, it sounds like they should have ? Or is there no offence currently for doing what they Did? "
Lines 7 & 8 of the OP - it's a story from Telegraph 2008. I don't know if the law's changed since, but maybe it should. |
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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"When I was a little kid,I used to protest to my mum when I was being told off,,,,''But **** told me to do it''.
She would counter with, ''If **** told you to jump off a cliff,would you?''
That person chose to jump,nobody made them.
All my sympathy for that persons desperate plight and I think the taunts from the crowd were extremely distasteful but,,,,they didn't force the person to jump.
If you are already mentally vulnerable... the shouting and taunts from a crowd could mitigate the end result... nothing new finding out some humans are horrendous...
Yet posting comments on an internet forum is seen as different.
We don't know what's going on behind the screen. That 'opinion' posted in a negative way from many people might push that person over the edge.
There's a world of difference in most instances though between someone posting something like "Boo hoo my message didn't get read" or "I can't get any meets because my profile refers to women as sluts and all I have are cock pics" and being given an opinion they don't like, and someone standing on a bridge threatening to jump off it - or even posting on a forum that they are stood on a bridge and threatening to jump off it.
Trying to compare the two things or even suggesting one leads to the other is plain ridiculous and in my opinion a tad unsavoury.
No, on an internet forum you don't know what is going on behind the screen at the other end, but you can only deal with what's put before you and give an opinion on it accordingly and like I said there's a world of difference between the two situations.
This morning's thread (about people using the site but not meeting spoiling it for others) was a good example of that - the guy posted something illogical that had no bearing whatsoever on the way the site works, and yet people calmly and reasonably offering their opinion along those lines, were accused of hounding and goading him to jump when he wasn't even stood on a bridge!!
You don't understand as usual. That's not what I said. Have a lovely day.
I understand perfectly well
And to be clear you said:
"Yet posting comments on an internet forum is seen as different.
We don't know what's going on behind the screen. That 'opinion' posted in a negative way from many people might push that person over the edge."
Which I've provided two perfectly clear examples of where that would not be the case.
In the earlier thread I referred to you said:
"It happens all the time. Like people goading someone to jump off a bridge. There was a young lad on here not long ago and people did that to him. Thankfully some people realised what was happening and offered him support"
Which was actually not the full context of what happened anyway, but is I suspect the parallel you were attempting to draw with this thread.
If I've misunderstood anything in your opinion, I'd be interested in hearing what exactly as I fail to see what I may have missed - the kind of threads you have referred to as "goading someone to jump off a bridge" are anything but that - this morning's thread being a classic example.
You take things very literally. My comments were examples I've seen over the years. Obviously this morning's thread wasn't the same. "
How else am I supposed to take them, if not literally as they were written?
And how was this morning's thread not the same? You felt the need to apply those comments to that thread this morning so you obviously felt they had some relevance to it then
Whilst I agree some threads can get out of hand at times - in the majority of cases it's been because someone has posted something contentious or negative and then reacted badly when it's not gone the way they had hoped or because the weight of opinion has been against them so I genuinely don't understand the need to try and defend them.
Another good example was the one you referred to where you said the guy had "anxiety issues" of some sort - if I remember correctly the guy came on moaning about a message not having been read (on another site!!) by someone he'd had a conversation with the previous day despite that person having been on-line since - people rightly pointed out in a reasonable manner that he was being unreasonable and there could be any number of valid reasons that she'd not read the message and that he was being a little too expectant - it was only much later towards the end of the thread that his anxiety issues started to surface at which point you joined and started with the "if this had been a woman posting" comments - which again was wide of the mark as a woman would have got similar responses to that particular issue. The point being though - no-one on that thread was goading the guy to jump - they were telling him straight what they thought - doesn't mean they were hounding him.
Yes he had anxiety issues which he explained later in the thread but no-one knew that from the start - so back to my earlier point you can only respond to what you see before you - and to be honest even if his anxiety issues had been known from the start in that instance I suspect the "dose of reality" answers he got would have been the same. |
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"Yes of course that's horrific,if I saw someone ready to jump goading them would be the last thing on my mind.
Absolutely this. I can’t believe people actually film things like this as well "
I remember a vile human being opening the body bags, and taking pictures and posting online of the Grenfall Tower victims. On what planet would that be the thing to do?
We live in a doomed world anyway when animals are more important than people. If it'd been a dog on the ledge someone would have risked their life to save it but a kind word to a troubled fellow human was beyond the Ken of the baying crowd. |
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I'd like it to be an offense but support assisted suicide within controlled scenarios, so there's a little bit of potential conflict superficially.
I'd ideally like it to be a serious offense but even more so that no one would ever consider this disgusting behavior. Our society has degraded and this is an abhorrent example of it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"For all the years ive been on this site ive been open about my mental illness. Not once have i noticed someone stopping to wonder what im going through before they have a pop at me and nor should they. Forums are sonething we chose to use and can walk away from them at any time
People used to help you. You may not remember but they did. look at thread you put up about racist. You upset a lot of people and it got removed. I just dont think your in a position to act all mary poppins when you do the exact same thing yourself
What thread? I've never said I'm Mary Poppins, quite the opposite. im sure you remember the thread clearly. .Often you start threads in such away tbey could be seen as offensive by some.
You know my mind better than I do. Please tell me more. i dont know your mind. All im saying is sometimes you either start threads on purpose to get a reaction otherwise you dont know your doing it which means your not stopping to think. I cant think of titles of the top of my head but the racist one ive mentioned is a perfect example"
I do want a reaction, yes, but my intention isn't to offend. I want to stir a reaction to make people think and talk and discuss.
I remember the thread you mean now. If we can't discuss things like that then things will never change. However we can't discuss them on here due to forum rules and I respect that. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Police said none of those who were shouting at him were actually committing an offence.
But Supt A*, of Derbyshire police, said it was a "disturbing and shocking reflection on society when people feel inclined to do that".'
.
Should it be an offence to goad someone who threatens to commit suicide?
Baffled by the lack of Police response. A couple of years ago, significant stretches of three of the busiest roads in Aberdeen were closed down to make sure that nobody had a view of a guy who was a risk of jumping. As the streets were being cleared, I heard one guy shout something about jumping, and he was advised he’d be arrested for a Breach of the Peace if he did it again. Perhaps the Superintendent has been away from the sharp end for too long.
I work in the city centre, I’ve seen stretches of roads being closed quite a few times, and the public kept away, and those acting out of line being threatened with arrest."
Perhaps different police forces have different rules. That's exactly what I'd hope would happen. Clear the area. But I'm not sure if they could arrest them for being despicable human beings, filming it and shouting.
I did some research but I wish I hadn't. There's some very sad stories. |
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"For all the years ive been on this site ive been open about my mental illness. Not once have i noticed someone stopping to wonder what im going through before they have a pop at me and nor should they. Forums are sonething we chose to use and can walk away from them at any time
People used to help you. You may not remember but they did. look at thread you put up about racist. You upset a lot of people and it got removed. I just dont think your in a position to act all mary poppins when you do the exact same thing yourself
What thread? I've never said I'm Mary Poppins, quite the opposite. im sure you remember the thread clearly. .Often you start threads in such away tbey could be seen as offensive by some.
You know my mind better than I do. Please tell me more. i dont know your mind. All im saying is sometimes you either start threads on purpose to get a reaction otherwise you dont know your doing it which means your not stopping to think. I cant think of titles of the top of my head but the racist one ive mentioned is a perfect example
I do want a reaction, yes, but my intention isn't to offend. I want to stir a reaction to make people think and talk and discuss.
I remember the thread you mean now. If we can't discuss things like that then things will never change. However we can't discuss them on here due to forum rules and I respect that. "
your first sentence says it all. Maybe thats what everyone else is thinking when they post |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I’ve not really read all the comments so others may have already said this, but yes it should be an offence.
Assisting a suicide is an offence over here already and I’m struggling to find a reason how shouting this sort of abuse at someone who is obviously in a fragile state of mine isn’t encouraging or even assisting in his suicide attempt.
These people should be punished, perhaps meeting the grieving family and seeing the heartache caused by such events have would shock them out of the frame of mind they have.
"
Meeting the grieving family would be a good idea in many cases I think. Such as knife crime.
I hope it would shock them. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"For all the years ive been on this site ive been open about my mental illness. Not once have i noticed someone stopping to wonder what im going through before they have a pop at me and nor should they. Forums are sonething we chose to use and can walk away from them at any time
People used to help you. You may not remember but they did. look at thread you put up about racist. You upset a lot of people and it got removed. I just dont think your in a position to act all mary poppins when you do the exact same thing yourself
What thread? I've never said I'm Mary Poppins, quite the opposite. im sure you remember the thread clearly. .Often you start threads in such away tbey could be seen as offensive by some.
You know my mind better than I do. Please tell me more. i dont know your mind. All im saying is sometimes you either start threads on purpose to get a reaction otherwise you dont know your doing it which means your not stopping to think. I cant think of titles of the top of my head but the racist one ive mentioned is a perfect example
I do want a reaction, yes, but my intention isn't to offend. I want to stir a reaction to make people think and talk and discuss.
I remember the thread you mean now. If we can't discuss things like that then things will never change. However we can't discuss them on here due to forum rules and I respect that. your first sentence says it all. Maybe thats what everyone else is thinking when they post"
Fair point. |
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For all the handwringers saying it's all down to the internet have a listen to Derek & Clive (alias Peter Cook and Dudley Moore) and their little ditty Jump circa 1976.
The internet has just opened up to a wider audience stuff that has always existed. |
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"Incorrect. The result is immaterial.
So why did the police not charge anyone, it sounds like they should have ? Or is there no offence currently for doing what they Did?"
I don’t know. Breach of the Peace is a common law crime, and pre-dates these incidents by some margin, although I’m not sure how it is or isn’t applied in English. But the test is how a reasonable person would perceive the behaviour, not whether or not it would make someone commit suicide.
.
"Also, there’s a fair amount of misunderstanding the thought processes of the suicidal.
I doubt anyone could really understand, it must be a very dark place to be "
You realise that everyone who’s experienced it understands, don’t you?
.
"Perhaps different police forces have different rules."
The guidelines for dealing with this sort of thing is pretty universal in the UK. It takes someone with a backbone to apply it, though.
"But I'm not sure if they could arrest them for being despicable human beings, filming it and shouting."
You can’t arrest someone for ‘being despicable’, per se, but people can be arrested if their behaviour is criminal. People do get arrested for that sort of behaviour. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"...
Perhaps different police forces have different rules.
The guidelines for dealing with this sort of thing is pretty universal in the UK. It takes someone with a backbone to apply it, though.
But I'm not sure if they could arrest them for being despicable human beings, filming it and shouting.
You can’t arrest someone for ‘being despicable’, per se, but people can be arrested if their behaviour is criminal. People do get arrested for that sort of behaviour."
That was the thought/ question behind my OP. Is it criminal offence, how would it affect euthanasia clinics, what do people think of the types that stand there shouting and filming.
Backbone- I think the police are sometimes concerned about what to do in case of the repercussions. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Bollocks. It's an offence under S.2 of the suicide Act 1961 to do an act that encourages or assists suicide or attempted suicide-14 years imprisonment on conviction. Bearing in mind that can be committed online, I would have thought shouting at the scene with loads of witnesses, including Police present, shouldn't be a problem.
Bollocks to what bit exactly? Quoting the law without a full understanding of the act? "
So shouting "How far can you bounce?", is a genuine curious and reasonable question, and understandable in the circumstances, but not encouragement. It is the only quote but I expect there were far more direct comments. Put it before a jury. In many areas the Police and CPS are spineless. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Incorrect. The result is immaterial.
So why did the police not charge anyone, it sounds like they should have ? Or is there no offence currently for doing what they Did?
I don’t know. Breach of the Peace is a common law crime, and pre-dates these incidents by some margin, although I’m not sure how it is or isn’t applied in English. But the test is how a reasonable person would perceive the behaviour, not whether or not it would make someone commit suicide.
.
Also, there’s a fair amount of misunderstanding the thought processes of the suicidal.
I doubt anyone could really understand, it must be a very dark place to be
You realise that everyone who’s experienced it understands, don’t you?"
..Yes I should have specified the vast majority that have not. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more "
My grandparents were (apart from one) atheists and hated the Monarchy.
It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with individualisation, in extremis (atomisation) and the encouragement thereof. "There is no such thing as society".
We need more solidarity. |
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"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more
My grandparents were (apart from one) atheists and hated the Monarchy.
It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with individualisation, in extremis (atomisation) and the encouragement thereof. "There is no such thing as society".
We need more solidarity."
I agree in part, but there is the mob mentality part that was mentioned before - people wouldn't do something like that (shouting jump) if they were on their own. How could you be certain that by pulling together a "good" mob mentality would emerge? |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more
My grandparents were (apart from one) atheists and hated the Monarchy.
It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with individualisation, in extremis (atomisation) and the encouragement thereof. "There is no such thing as society".
We need more solidarity.
I agree in part, but there is the mob mentality part that was mentioned before - people wouldn't do something like that (shouting jump) if they were on their own. How could you be certain that by pulling together a "good" mob mentality would emerge?"
Community. If people thought their mum's friend could see them and they'd be told on, or would be ostracised down the workingmans', they'd at least think twice. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Absolutely it should be. I'm sure I read about a few cases where people who encouraged others to kill themselves online (where there was usable proof of it) were tried for manslaughter because their actions directly contributed to the death. |
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"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more
My grandparents were (apart from one) atheists and hated the Monarchy.
It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with individualisation, in extremis (atomisation) and the encouragement thereof. "There is no such thing as society".
We need more solidarity.
I agree in part, but there is the mob mentality part that was mentioned before - people wouldn't do something like that (shouting jump) if they were on their own. How could you be certain that by pulling together a "good" mob mentality would emerge?
Community. If people thought their mum's friend could see them and they'd be told on, or would be ostracised down the workingmans', they'd at least think twice. "
But as has been stated, in the past when "community" was stronger, people used to go and watch public executions for fun. At these executions, they would shout things at a member of their community. Witch hunts happened because someone was a bit different and only on the periphery of the community. With the stigma that those with mental health issues have, they would also be on the periphery of the community and so fair game for abuse.
It is individual responsibility that needs to improve. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more
My grandparents were (apart from one) atheists and hated the Monarchy.
It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with individualisation, in extremis (atomisation) and the encouragement thereof. "There is no such thing as society".
We need more solidarity.
I agree in part, but there is the mob mentality part that was mentioned before - people wouldn't do something like that (shouting jump) if they were on their own. How could you be certain that by pulling together a "good" mob mentality would emerge?
Community. If people thought their mum's friend could see them and they'd be told on, or would be ostracised down the workingmans', they'd at least think twice.
But as has been stated, in the past when "community" was stronger, people used to go and watch public executions for fun. At these executions, they would shout things at a member of their community. Witch hunts happened because someone was a bit different and only on the periphery of the community. With the stigma that those with mental health issues have, they would also be on the periphery of the community and so fair game for abuse.
It is individual responsibility that needs to improve."
I was talking community in respect to my grandparents generation, not some distant mediaeval past. |
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"Those who think this type of thing is just the average daily thing that's always happened, long before the web, have got some hackneyed medieval burning on a stake circus playing out in their heads. Our grandparents generation wouldn't have done this. There was too much morality imposed on society by the church and the monarchy. Sure... they went and committed terrible atrocities like bombing Dresden to smithereens. But they came back deeply traumatised by it all. Today people would be queueing round the block to enjoy such immersive and amusing brutality... and they'd take a bucket of popcorn with them too
Morally, with the collapse of the faiths, I think we are reverting to a medieval mindset. The internet has made being in the gutter fun. Trying to be a better person just isn't interesting enough to people any more
My grandparents were (apart from one) atheists and hated the Monarchy.
It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with individualisation, in extremis (atomisation) and the encouragement thereof. "There is no such thing as society".
We need more solidarity.
I agree in part, but there is the mob mentality part that was mentioned before - people wouldn't do something like that (shouting jump) if they were on their own. How could you be certain that by pulling together a "good" mob mentality would emerge?
Community. If people thought their mum's friend could see them and they'd be told on, or would be ostracised down the workingmans', they'd at least think twice.
But as has been stated, in the past when "community" was stronger, people used to go and watch public executions for fun. At these executions, they would shout things at a member of their community. Witch hunts happened because someone was a bit different and only on the periphery of the community. With the stigma that those with mental health issues have, they would also be on the periphery of the community and so fair game for abuse.
It is individual responsibility that needs to improve.
I was talking community in respect to my grandparents generation, not some distant mediaeval past."
There are modern day witch hunts. Obviously not trying to hunt down witches, but those deemed to be different.
I have to admit that I thought public executions carried on into the last century, but apparently it was in 1868. |
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"That was the thought/ question behind my OP. Is it criminal offence, how would it affect euthanasia clinics, what do people think of the types that stand there shouting and filming."
It doesn’t affect euthanasia clinics. The two things have next to nothing to do with each other. They are completely different actions carried out in completely different ways by people with completely different intentions.
"Backbone- I think the police are sometimes concerned about what to do in case of the repercussions. "
Sometimes. But not often. We’re talking about two stories, dwarfed by the hundreds and thousands of times the Police deal with these situations effectively. These stories are not, as some would like to believe, effective barometers of the current state of policing in the UK.
They are also not an indication of any moral degradation in a society with diminishing empathy. Humans have always, by and large, been complete arseholes to one another, self-absorbed, self-interested, finding comfort and entertainment in the misfortune of others. It takes a selective, blinkered, or plain ignorant mind-set to suggest things are worse now than 50 or 100 years ago. And it’s especially moronic to blame the internet.
It’s a nothing discussion. The articles tell us nothing, other than that on those two occasions, an insignificant minority behaved in a way that some people always have and always will, and on those two occasions the Police didn’t manage the situation well. |
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