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Women do you still feel repressed ? 2

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Everyone knows the sequels are never as good as the original !

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

* Oppressed

Ffs

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Everyone knows the sequels are never as good as the original !"

Hmmmmmmmmmm that’s sometimes true

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Everyone knows the sequels are never as good as the original !"

Godfather 2 for the win.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A recurring theme of the loud vocal minority of feminists in the last thread was domestic and sexual violence. A red herring. Crime is crime and can only ever be limited but not prevented.

I want to highlight this as a bogeyman category (remembering that the question was about being oppressed by society and the laws of the land). It's an excellent sales pitch though.

True SV and DV are criminal behaviours, conducted by a minority, dealt with by the law and universally looked down upon by society. SV and DV happen towards men too and notably men suffer more street violence in general.

The pay gap was generally debunked ...let's avoid the fight and just take an intellectual honest look at how under 30 women are paid more and better educated to see that the tide of this problem has turned. The remainder is personal choice.

Equality lies in anybody being able to work towards any job they like provided they have the apptitude.

What's left?

What areas of actual oppression remain?

#diminishedreturns

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 28/07/18 06:51:05]

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

"A recurring theme of the loud vocal minority..."

I asked in the last thread; out of interest, how does one gauge the acoustic volume of text on a screen? How was anyone any ‘louder’ than anyone else? Could it be that you’re describing the counter argument in negative terms because you have little faith in yours? I wonder.

"...of feminists in the last thread was domestic and sexual violence. A red herring. Crime is crime and can only ever be limited but not prevented."

Nobody is disputing that. Nobody claimed otherwise. So, that’s a straw man argument right there. Null and void. The point is that there is an imbalance in a certain type of crime which is, overwhelmingly, perpetrated by men against women. And it is largely perpetrated as a means of demonstrating power over the other.

"I want to highlight this as a bogeyman category..."

It’s a typical tactic of those with a weak argument to try to rule out the opposing arguments from the outset. It’s the kind of thing children do when playing games in the playground. It doesn’t work when grown-ups are talking.

"(remembering that the question was about being oppressed by society and the laws of the land). It's an excellent sales pitch though."

It’s also a classic strategy to attempt to change history. There was no mention of the laws of the land in the original OP. It asked how women felt they were treated by society. Crime is a major part of that. Nice try, though.

"True SV and DV are criminal behaviours, conducted by a minority, dealt with by the law and universally looked down upon by society."

I’m guessing that you don’t really know what ‘universally’ means. You also don’t understand the significant psychological difference between sexual and domestic violence and other crime. You also don’t seem to grasp how difficult it is for most of this to be dealt with by the Police and courts. One could argue that you don’t seem to know very much of what you’re talking about, at all.

"SV and DV happen towards men too..."

Again, nobody argued otherwise. The figures are utterly dwarfed by the stats of the violence towards women.

"...and notably men suffer more street violence in general."

That’s because certain men participate more in behaviour which leads to street violence. Yes, some men are attacked unprovoked, but it’s a minority. They are also very rarely attacked specifically because of their gender.

"The pay gap was generally debunked ...let's avoid the fight and just take an intellectual honest look at how under 30 women are paid more and better educated to see that the tide of this problem has turned. The remainder is personal choice."

You can’t debunk something that is indisputable. There are still problems, overall, with women being underrepresented in the higher salary brackets. There are still societal prejudices about the choice women have to make, as evidenced in the last thread. Society still teaches women that, as a gender, they have to choose between having children and being able to seek promotion at the same rate as men. Men, in general, have no such barrier. Yes, things are improving, but we’re not at the point of equality yet.

"Equality lies in anybody being able to work towards any job they like provided they have the apptitude."

Equality also lies in ensuring that little boys and girls know that they can work towards any job they like. That still isn’t the case. Women are still underrepresented in various fields where a gender divide seems nonsensical.

"What's left?

What areas of actual oppression remain?"

Educating those who don’t seem to have a decent grasp of the situation. Hello.

"#diminishedreturns"

I saw that expression used in negative terms on the first thread. You do realise that, in most fields, striving for the best will, in the latter stages, always result in diminishing returns. There’s less ground to be made up than there used to be. But the fact that there ARE returns demonstrates that we haven’t made it yet. Kinda fucked your own argument there. Well done.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

On the last thread I said I'm happy, which I am. But then I was told I shouldn't be happy as other women feel oppressed still.

- I should think the way I'm told to think and be the way people tell me to be.

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

"On the last thread I said I'm happy, which I am. But then I was told I shouldn't be happy as other women feel oppressed still.

- I should think the way I'm told to think and be the way people tell me to be. "

I seem to recall posts pointing out that it’s great that you’re happy, it’s just that it doesn’t mean others are.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"On the last thread I said I'm happy, which I am. But then I was told I shouldn't be happy as other women feel oppressed still.

- I should think the way I'm told to think and be the way people tell me to be.

I seem to recall posts pointing out that it’s great that you’re happy, it’s just that it doesn’t mean others are."

I never said that my being happy meant that everyone else is. I was answering the OP on that thread.

Oppression still exists.

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

"I never said that my being happy meant that everyone else is."

I never said that you did...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I never said that my being happy meant that everyone else is.

I never said that you did..."

Sorry I meant on the other thread. Not that you said it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A recurring theme of the loud vocal minority...

...of feminists in the last thread was domestic and sexual violence. A red herring. Crime is crime and can only ever be limited but not prevented.

I want to highlight this as a bogeyman category...

(remembering that the question was about being oppressed by society and the laws of the land). It's an excellent sales pitch though.

True SV and DV are criminal behaviours, conducted by a minority, dealt with by the law and universally looked down upon by society.

SV and DV happen towards men too...

Again, nobody argued otherwise. The figures are utterly dwarfed by the stats of the violence towards women.

...and notably men suffer more street violence in general.

Equality lies in anybody being able to work towards any job they like provided they have the apptitude.

What's left?

What areas of actual oppression remain?

Educating those who don’t seem to have a decent grasp of the situation. Hello.

#diminishedreturns

I didn't read half of that as I can see you have an axe to grind and are

like, totally resorting to the the worst of over literal teenage arguing styles.

The point stands that lumping criminal acts in with the general day to to day business of being a woman in modern society is done so to create an illusion of an overall inequality. Fears sells. A cash cow for feminism incorporated.

I'll add another point to the usual lame quip about the privileged being threatened by equality to quell dissent - some people just see that inclusion is always better than division and that seems to be the sentiment from considered pro equality anti feminist types like myself. We are sick of a silly and generally baseless gender war.

There are no weapons of mass destruction

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Let's put it another way.. sexual and domestic violence has got nothing to do with the majority of men and women.

Some are evil pricks and some fall into desperately hard luck.

It's an incurable quirk of humanity that all the campaigning in the world will have no effect on.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

#diminishedreturns

Well done on demonstrating how you don't understand the meaning of diminishing returns.

Made what yet? Where's your end goal and your 10 step plan to get there?

Hint...there is none.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You can’t debunk something that is indisputable. There are still problems, overall, with women being underrepresented in the higher salary brackets.

More so, you can't detach people from their favourite statistical lie too easily once they become married to it.

There are multiple angles to the pay gap..not just motherhood and career gaps. Study after study after study has shown that on average women are less assertive which correlates strongly with that unhealthy ambition that some men have to climb corporate ranks at all costs or at a lower level to push harder in salary negotiations.

Women have more sense.

It's arguable that men are underrepresented in the very high earning positions too. They are called the 1% for a reason

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

"I didn't read half of that..."

Another tactic of those with no faith in their argument; “I didn’t read that.” Translation: “I have no comeback to that, so I’ll just pretend it didn’t happen.”

"...as I can see you have an axe to grind and are like, totally resorting to the the worst of over literal teenage arguing styles."

I have no axe to grind. And congratulations on failing to respond to what I wrote, focussing instead on how I wrote it. Is it, perhaps, because you can’t?

"The point stands that lumping criminal acts in with the general day to to day business of being a woman in modern society is done so to create an illusion of an overall inequality."

That point doesn’t stand. That point can’t even get off the floor. There is no illusion. It would appear that you have no idea what women experience, and don’t want to listen to anyone telling you - from lived experience - that you are wrong.

"Fears sells. A cash cow for feminism incorporated."

Meaningless rhetoric.

"Let's put it another way.. sexual and domestic violence has got nothing to do with the majority of men and women."

That doesn’t mean that it’s not an important factor. Unemployment has nothing to do with the majority of men and women, but most people have the good sense to consider the impact it has on society, and could directly have on them.

"Some are evil pricks and some fall into desperately hard luck."

Desperately hard luck perpetrated because of their gender? The fact that an individual is unlucky highlights that any woman is at risk.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Man oh man.. everybody is "at risk" from all sorts of stuff all the time.

The rest I won't waste my time on. You can't separate the controllable from the uncontrollable and that makes your thinking incurable.

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

"Well done on demonstrating how you don't understand the meaning of diminishing returns.

I understand it perfectly well. Perhaps you didn’t understand my point; there is less to be fought for in this country than there once was. Enfranchisement was a huge return. Universal enfranchisement was a significant, but smaller return. Equal pay for equal jobs was a huge return. True equality in average pay will be a smaller return. When there is less to be achieved the returns are, by definition, smaller.

"Made what yet? Where's your end goal..."

True equality.

"...and your 10 step plan to get there?"

Don’t be facetious.

"Hint...there is none. "

I’m guessing I dreamt just writing it, then.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This is the perfect analogy to show where you are going wrong.

"Full employment" is generally considered to be at the 4 to 5 percent mark.

Want to give everyone a job like a good communist?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I wasn't being facetious.. tell us your plan to get everyone to the small goal of equal pay without you yourself bringing in unfair and totalitarian measures to get there?

Try answer this honestly.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why are women feeling oppressed?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In the EU where we all reside I assume the "pay gap" for men and women doing the exact same job is extremely rare. Then you've stats talking about pay gaps in totally different jobs in general. Where men usually do high risk physical jobs and women usually do clerical jobs. Men should be paid more for mining than a woman should be to do the average desk job. And vice versa if the rolls are reversed. With pregnancy you leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc... If you miss work. Pregnancy is a choice. Stats show alot of women that go back to work after pregnancy choose jobs with lower pay to get more flexible hours too. Yes it takes two to make a baby but it's up to the individual couples who they want at home. Usually the woman prefers to be at home.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

This is the perfect analogy to show where you are going wrong.

"Full employment" is generally considered to be at the 4 to 5 percent mark.

Want to give everyone a job like a good communist?

Most kids are not victims of paedophiles and most adults aren't paedophiles. Consequently paedophilia is not a problem on your logic.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This is the perfect analogy to show where you are going wrong.

"Full employment" is generally considered to be at the 4 to 5 percent mark.

Want to give everyone a job like a good communist?

Most kids are not victims of paedophiles and most adults aren't paedophiles. Consequently paedophilia is not a problem on your logic. "

Of course it is a problem.

1. It won't be cured by tarring all with the same brush a la feminism and domestic violence and how they talk about men in general.

2. As a flaw of humanity...some are wired to like kids in a sexual capacity.. you will never bring it zero.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why are women feeling oppressed?"

Led by gender theory "scholars" in the US, the media has been drip feeding us victimhood for the past 3 to 5 years. Everything was dandy before that if you can cast your minds back to the heady days of 2012 when people got on with their lives.

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By *etter the devil you knowWoman over a year ago

Lyndhurst

"Why are women feeling oppressed?

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

This is the perfect analogy to show where you are going wrong.

"Full employment" is generally considered to be at the 4 to 5 percent mark.

Want to give everyone a job like a good communist?

Most kids are not victims of paedophiles and most adults aren't paedophiles. Consequently paedophilia is not a problem on your logic.

Of course it is a problem.

1. It won't be cured by tarring all with the same brush a la feminism and domestic violence and how they talk about men in general.

2. As a flaw of humanity...some are wired to like kids in a sexual capacity.. you will never bring it zero. "

Your point was that because most men and women aren't involved in domestic violence it's not a problem. If you concede that paedophilia is a problem despite the fact that most adults and kids do not come across it then, as a matter of basic logic, you're accepting that's a nonsense argument.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

"Why are women feeling oppressed?

Because of course poor women cannot think for themselves and reach conclusions based on their own experience but are easily confused by academics and the media.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The matter of basic logic is distinguishing between problems that can be solved and problems that cannot.

World poverty is there for the taking if you are really that ambitious.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why are women feeling oppressed?

Because of course poor women cannot think for themselves and reach conclusions based on their own experience but are easily confused by academics and the media. "

Are you arguing that media isn't an influence?

I give you Trump and Brexit

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

"Man oh man.. everybody is "at risk" from all sorts of stuff all the time."

Yes. But women have that extra risk, simply because they are women. Not because of behaviour they are more likely to exhibit. Simply because they are women.

"This is the perfect analogy to show where you are going wrong.

"Full employment" is generally considered to be at the 4 to 5 percent mark."

So... what? That’s not the point.

"Want to give everyone a job like a good communist?

Is it really a negative to think that everyone who wants a job having a job would be good? I’m not talking about creating jobs out of nothing. It takes a special kind of thinking to portray elimination of a bad thing as a negative.

"I wasn't being facetious.. tell us your plan to get everyone to the small goal of equal pay without you yourself bringing in unfair and totalitarian measures to get there?

Try answer this honestly."

Once again, the tactic of someone without a reasonable argument. Demanding that I must have the answers. Although, at least you have conceded that there’s a problem.

For what it’s worth, there is no need for totalitarian or unfair measures. We’re getting there without them. That doesn’t mean that we’re there yet.

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

"With pregnancy you leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc... If you miss work. Pregnancy is a choice."

It shouldn’t have to be, “You can have kids or a successful career,” when men aren’t forced to make that choice. There’s your inequality, right there.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm trying to force you to think through the consequences of your thought process but you seem beyond helping.

Like I said before, communism seemed like a great idea at the time until human nature kicked in. There are many parallels with your line of thinking.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"With pregnancy you leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc... If you miss work. Pregnancy is a choice.

It shouldn’t have to be, “You can have kids or a successful career,” when men aren’t forced to make that choice. There’s your inequality, right there."

Are you saying women can't have kids and successful careers?! Many have proven you wrong and are insulted by this kind of thinking.

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

"The matter of basic logic is distinguishing between problems that can be solved and problems that cannot.

World poverty is there for the taking if you are really that ambitious. "

So, just to be clear, your argument is that women are just going to have to put up with sexual and domestic violence, and stop moaning about it, because you don’t think the situation can be improved?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"With pregnancy you leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc... If you miss work. Pregnancy is a choice.

It shouldn’t have to be, “You can have kids or a successful career,” when men aren’t forced to make that choice. There’s your inequality, right there."

Ah its about money. Every single worker is replaceable. Someone who puts in more hours and doesn't take maternity leave and asked to go home earlier more often for reason relating to their kid is making less money and doing less work. You can't force a company to promote someone like that over someone that hasn't taken leave and is willing to do mad amounts of over time. This isn't about the government, this is business. Who is going to mind the child if both work? The parents can decide between themselves but usually women choose to stay at home. That's just a fact.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

"Why are women feeling oppressed?

Because of course poor women cannot think for themselves and reach conclusions based on their own experience but are easily confused by academics and the media.

Are you arguing that media isn't an influence?

I give you Trump and Brexit

I don't think that trump and brexit were caused by the media. Large scale social phenomenons are not caused by the media.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The matter of basic logic is distinguishing between problems that can be solved and problems that cannot.

World poverty is there for the taking if you are really that ambitious.

Let's invert for a moment

1. How do you propose to stop it?

2. I have to "put up with" the constant risk of assault, burglary, car crashes, alien invasion....and jealous girls who want to cut my dick off while I'm sleeping.

You can't protect against everything.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why are women feeling oppressed?

Because of course poor women cannot think for themselves and reach conclusions based on their own experience but are easily confused by academics and the media.

Are you arguing that media isn't an influence?

I give you Trump and Brexit

I don't think that trump and brexit were caused by the media. Large scale social phenomenons are not caused by the media. "

Ok then.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

"With pregnancy you leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc... If you miss work. Pregnancy is a choice.

It shouldn’t have to be, “You can have kids or a successful career,” when men aren’t forced to make that choice. There’s your inequality, right there.

Exactly the same arguments used to be put forward in the nineteenth century as to why it was wrong to ban ten year olds working in factories. You can't force a company to employ an adult when they can get child labour more cheaply. It wasn't about government, it was about business. How was the child going to survive if it wasn't earning a wage?

Funnily enough we got round those problems...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"With pregnancy you leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc... If you miss work. Pregnancy is a choice.

It shouldn’t have to be, “You can have kids or a successful career,” when men aren’t forced to make that choice. There’s your inequality, right there.

Funnily enough we got round those problems... "

Na not really. Less work or atleast less time at work equals less pay and less promotion opportunities. Hardly the same as child labour.

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By *etter the devil you knowWoman over a year ago

Lyndhurst

"With pregnancy you leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc... If you miss work. Pregnancy is a choice.

It shouldn’t have to be, “You can have kids or a successful career,” when men aren’t forced to make that choice. There’s your inequality, right there.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

"Why are women feeling oppressed?

Because of course poor women cannot think for themselves and reach conclusions based on their own experience but are easily confused by academics and the media.

Are you arguing that media isn't an influence?

I give you Trump and Brexit

I don't think that trump and brexit were caused by the media. Large scale social phenomenons are not caused by the media.

Ok then. "

You think 17 million people voted for brexit because of what the sun and the mail said? Those papers also said Corbyn was the devil incarnate last year but he massively increased the Labour vote.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

"With pregnancy you leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc... If you miss work. Pregnancy is a choice.

It shouldn’t have to be, “You can have kids or a successful career,” when men aren’t forced to make that choice. There’s your inequality, right there.

Funnily enough we got round those problems...

Na not really. Less work or atleast less time at work equals less pay and less promotion opportunities. Hardly the same as child labour. "

You're saying economic imperatives can never be changed by politics. Child labour is an example of exactly where that happened.

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By *isa 59Woman over a year ago

Newcastle

I just thought I'd throw this into the mix. It was a 2-part programme on BBC2 this week called "No more boys and girls...can our kids go gender free".

Is the way we treat boys and girls the real reason we haven't achieved equality between men and women? Dr Javid Abdelmoneim aims to find out by taking over a primary school class.

Well worth watching by both sides of the debate.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"With pregnancy you leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc... If you miss work. Pregnancy is a choice.

It shouldn’t have to be, “You can have kids or a successful career,” when men aren’t forced to make that choice. There’s your inequality, right there.

Funnily enough we got round those problems...

Na not really. Less work or atleast less time at work equals less pay and less promotion opportunities. Hardly the same as child labour.

You're saying economic imperatives can never be changed by politics. Child labour is an example of exactly where that happened. "

Give me you solution then. If I'm a manager and have two workers and one was out on maternity leave and the other was in the whole time and I want to give someone extra responsibility im going to promote the person who is at work more often as I automatically see them as more reliable. I don't care why the other person is out. I have a business to run. And again like I said the stats prove women CHOOSE to stay at home more often than not and upon returning to work they again CHOOSE to take jobs with less pay for more flexibile hours. This is only one reason for the so called pay gap though there's loads of more.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

"With pregnancy you leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc... If you miss work. Pregnancy is a choice.

It shouldn’t have to be, “You can have kids or a successful career,” when men aren’t forced to make that choice. There’s your inequality, right there.

Funnily enough we got round those problems...

Na not really. Less work or atleast less time at work equals less pay and less promotion opportunities. Hardly the same as child labour.

You're saying economic imperatives can never be changed by politics. Child labour is an example of exactly where that happened.

It's a question of who bears the cost involved in reproduction, the employee or the employer. Society has decided it's the employer, hence you can't discriminate against women because they have taken maternity leave. If you are promoting a man above a woman because the latter has taken maternity leave you are behaving unlawfully and leaving yourself open to a tribunal claim. The fact that you consider people who don't go on maternity leave as more reliable is irrelevant.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

These threads are making me depressed, feeling oppressed and repressing my desire to talk to more and more forumites.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm lost by this child labour tangent...what has that got to do with anything?

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

"I'm lost by this child labour tangent...what has that got to do with anything? "

His argument was that economic imperatives mean women will always be paid less. It should to be said that economic imperatives meant there would always be child labour.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm lost by this child labour tangent...what has that got to do with anything?

His argument was that economic imperatives mean women will always be paid less. It should to be said that economic imperatives meant there would always be child labour. "

Sounds like a false equivalency to me.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Maybe if people concerned themselves with actual child labour and less with first world feminism of the minutea of two close averages we would have better perspective.

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

"I'm trying to force you to think through the consequences of your thought process but you seem beyond helping."

No, you’re trying to say that there isn’t a problem because you can’t think of a solution. The existence of a solution is immaterial.

"Are you saying women can't have kids and successful careers?! Many have proven you wrong and are insulted by this kind of thinking. "

No, I’m saying quite the opposite. It is possible, but only some are allowed to achieve it. Many are forced to choose. The person I was replying to is, apparently, fine with that.

"1. How do you propose to stop it?"

Still struggling with the notion that me providing a solution has nothing to do with the existence of the problem. (One of the answers, btw, is the universal one; education.)

"2. I have to "put up with" the constant risk of assault, burglary, car crashes, alien invasion....and jealous girls who want to cut my dick off while I'm sleeping."

Women have to put up with the first four risks, too. When bobbitting becomes as significant an issue as domestic or sexual violence, let us know.

"You can't protect against everything."

Most notably, ignorance.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm lost by this child labour tangent...what has that got to do with anything?

His argument was that economic imperatives mean women will always be paid less. It should to be said that economic imperatives meant there would always be child labour. "
wrong. Women will miss opportunities if they're not in work. Maternity leave isn't the only thing. They usually can't do the overtime and look for more time off. Women with children that it. Maternity leave can be excusable. I work with mostly men and I'd say the ones with kids get up to atleast 7 extra days off a year because of kids. "my child fell I have to leave" "I can't come in my wife and kids all have the bug" "can I leave today at 2 cause my child has a play" "I can't work this day cause my wife isn't at home" and I'm not complaining about that. I want kids someday and I will have to miss work for the same things. Most men in work are even lying just to take a day off. The less time you're in work the less opportunities you will have and that to me is fair.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Education as a solution to the worst flaws of humanity is laughable at best!

Secondly life is all about choices ...you can have anything you want, but no one can have it all as they say.

I'm telling you the problem can't be solved and you are lamenting when that I ask you for a solution! I think that answers it

I know the only solution available and it's not pretty.

I wish you the best, ciao

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

"Maternity leave can be excusable."

The very fact that you choose that wording demonstrates your prejudice.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Maternity leave can be excusable.

The very fact that you choose that wording demonstrates your prejudice."

Hardly. My wording is my lack of ability to be honest. Basically maternity leave is ok and fair but overtime people with kids usually are less flexible in work.

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

"Education as a solution to the worst flaws of humanity is laughable at best!"

Education has proven to be a solution for many other behaviours that people have deemed inevitable or impossible to challenge. Sure, it won’t be an absolute, all encompassing solution, but it has already had a significant impact.

"Secondly life is all about choices ...you can have anything you want, but no one can have it all as they say."

I have never suggested that anyone should have it all. A fair crack of the whip would be reasonable, though.

"I'm telling you the problem can't be solved and you are lamenting when that I ask you for a solution! I think that answers it

No, that doesn’t answer a thing. The thread is about whether or not there is a problem, not whether or not there is a solution. Even so, you not accepting a suggested solution is not, or even if I could not suggest any solution, does not mean there is not one. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

"I know the only solution available and it's not pretty."

So, after all your arguments that there is no solution, you're now claiming there is, that it’s the only solution, but for some inexplicable reason (aye, right) you’re not willing to share this grail-like knowledge.

"I wish you the best, ciao "

I wonder if you’ll be back...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"With pregnancy you leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc... If you miss work. Pregnancy is a choice.

It shouldn’t have to be, “You can have kids or a successful career,” when men aren’t forced to make that choice. There’s your inequality, right there."

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By *nicecoupleXCouple over a year ago

Hitch

"Everyone knows the sequels are never as good as the original !"

You know how I feel, my opinion hasn't changed.

In my opinion, we are not oppressed.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"With pregnancy you leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc... If you miss work. Pregnancy is a choice.

It shouldn’t have to be, “You can have kids or a successful career,” when men aren’t forced to make that choice. There’s your inequality, right there.

Surely that isn't forced on the woman but a decision made by the mother and father of the child?

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"Why are women feeling oppressed?"

I don't

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By *iSTARessWoman over a year ago

London

"These threads are making me depressed, feeling oppressed and repressing my desire to talk to more and more forumites.

Indeed. Don't you just love it when men dominate an argument about women?

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By *sylockeWoman over a year ago

East Anglia

"In the EU where we all reside I assume the "pay gap" for men and women doing the exact same job is extremely rare. Then you've stats talking about pay gaps in totally different jobs in general. Where men usually do high risk physical jobs and women usually do clerical jobs. Men should be paid more for mining than a woman should be to do the average desk job. And vice versa if the rolls are reversed. With pregnancy you leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc... If you miss work. Pregnancy is a choice. Stats show alot of women that go back to work after pregnancy choose jobs with lower pay to get more flexible hours too. Yes it takes two to make a baby but it's up to the individual couples who they want at home. Usually the woman prefers to be at home. "

Women prefer to be at home? Really?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

On here no I think we are more in charge coz of the sheer volume of men..... outside of here it’s still the pay sector still bias towards male counterparts

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By *lbert_shlossedMan over a year ago

Manchester

Victim hood suits alot of agendas and narratives of the true oppressors.

This is the real reason the left seeks group victimisation mentality, we've all seen the hard lefts historical past and it's far from pretty.

Of course media wise were constantly fed stuff like the Nazis a warning from history.

A truly despicable political movement but one that was disposed of very quickly and has never really recovered main stream and left to fringe loonies.

The same cannot be said for the hard left communists and Marxists who pump out this leftist victim hood drivel on a daily basis.

Problems with no solutions is like the unwinnable war on drugs or war on terrorism, it's the perfect crow bar to install undemocratic and anti freedom philosophy of everybody do as there told.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Women prefer to be at home? Really? "

You think their husbands are forcing them? Well in that case get onto the police.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"With pregnancy you leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc... If you miss work. Pregnancy is a choice.

It shouldn’t have to be, “You can have kids or a successful career,” when men aren’t forced to make that choice. There’s your inequality, right there.

Funnily enough we got round those problems...

Na not really. Less work or atleast less time at work equals less pay and less promotion opportunities. Hardly the same as child labour.

You're saying economic imperatives can never be changed by politics. Child labour is an example of exactly where that happened.

I wouldn't think a woman chooses to take a less paid job with more flexible hours after a pregnancy, it's more to do with what fits around her family and the necessity to earn a living

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

"With pregnancy you leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc... If you miss work. Pregnancy is a choice.

It shouldn’t have to be, “You can have kids or a successful career,” when men aren’t forced to make that choice. There’s your inequality, right there.

Surely that isn't forced on the woman but a decision made by the mother and father of the child?"

Why must either partner choose to have their career handicapped? With better legislation, services, and working practices, it would be possible for better sharing of roles, and no sudden crippling of promotion prospects.

Part of the problem is many employer’s needless inflexibility on working hours (or, conversely, in some cases, needless refusal to set predictable, reliable rotas), working from home, and the stigma that remains attached to those ideas, as well as the long-standing mind-set that working more than 35-40 hours a week is something of which to be boastful.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"These threads are making me depressed, feeling oppressed and repressing my desire to talk to more and more forumites.

Indeed. Don't you just love it when men dominate an argument about women?"

If I had a pound and all that!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Agreed, we could all benefit from detaching ourselves from the tyranny of labour but the world of work still revolves around those who sell the maximum of their soul to curmudgeon employers.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"These threads are making me depressed, feeling oppressed and repressing my desire to talk to more and more forumites.

Indeed. Don't you just love it when men dominate an argument about women?

If I had a pound and all that! "

But but but Feminism is about equality ....and more generally, this is a conversation about society so keep your sexism at bay please and let us silly boys have opinions too.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"These threads are making me depressed, feeling oppressed and repressing my desire to talk to more and more forumites.

Indeed. Don't you just love it when men dominate an argument about women?"

What are you adding to the debate? What's stopping women from commenting and getting involved? Should men not be allowed an opinion and why?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"These threads are making me depressed, feeling oppressed and repressing my desire to talk to more and more forumites.

Indeed. Don't you just love it when men dominate an argument about women?

What are you adding to the debate? What's stopping women from commenting and getting involved? Should men not be allowed an opinion and why? "

There's every opportunity for women to contribute equally and even dominate this thread. I wonder why they aren't?

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"These threads are making me depressed, feeling oppressed and repressing my desire to talk to more and more forumites.

Indeed. Don't you just love it when men dominate an argument about women?

What are you adding to the debate? What's stopping women from commenting and getting involved? Should men not be allowed an opinion and why?

There's every opportunity for women to contribute equally and even dominate this thread. I wonder why they aren't?"

I'll tell you why I rarely do now. When I do I get PMs from men and women explaining why I am wrong, sometimes with abuse.

The comments made on here become circular and not one person shifts their perspective. At some point someone will say something about men having it just as bad or worse. Comments about daily occurrences of lived experience of sexism are dismissed as just needing a thicker skin. Stats that show the difference are dismissed, where in other debates they are demanded. Trite comments are made that women should call the police if their husbands are forcing them to stay home, when we know there are lots of factors in relationships and even that abuse isn't just physical. Men's jobs are harder and they are there more so they should get paid more.

Finally, that the same trope that having children is a lifestyle choice. Well, fuck it, some have to make that choice or our pensions and old age are going to be pretty bleak.

Presenteeism doesn't mean someone is doing a good job. By the evidence on here a lot are shirking and on Fab instead of doing their work. Why does that deserve higher wages than someone coming in part-time doing just as much, and previously as an employer seeing them do more?

I have no doubt I'll be explained away. It's the equivalent of the pat on the head, let me tell you better because my chromosomes are different that is part of the quiet, daily oppression.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"These threads are making me depressed, feeling oppressed and repressing my desire to talk to more and more forumites.

Indeed. Don't you just love it when men dominate an argument about women?

What are you adding to the debate? What's stopping women from commenting and getting involved? Should men not be allowed an opinion and why?

There's every opportunity for women to contribute equally and even dominate this thread. I wonder why they aren't?

I'll tell you why I rarely do now. When I do I get PMs from men and women explaining why I am wrong, sometimes with abuse.

Finally, that the same trope that having children is a lifestyle choice. Well, fuck it, some have to make that choice or our pensions and old age are going to be pretty bleak.

I have no doubt I'll be explained away. It's the equivalent of the pat on the head, let me tell you better because my chromosomes are different that is part of the quiet, daily oppression.

"
.

You took one line from my text about women choosing to stay at home. They do in general mostly because of economic factors. To me the system is against the working family in that situation and not the woman. The woman could easily decide with her husband for him to stay at home or to look for the more flexible job. I'm talking about happily married working couples with kids. The fact is women are more likely to stay at home than me. They're not being forced by the men. Maybe they're historically brainwashed to do so but they have a choice that's also a fact. When you don't counter with information then someone else with counter dismissively. I did that rightly or wrongly.

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By *SAchickWoman over a year ago

Hillside desolate

"These threads are making me depressed, feeling oppressed and repressing my desire to talk to more and more forumites.

Indeed. Don't you just love it when men dominate an argument about women?

What are you adding to the debate? What's stopping women from commenting and getting involved? Should men not be allowed an opinion and why?

There's every opportunity for women to contribute equally and even dominate this thread. I wonder why they aren't?

I'll tell you why I rarely do now. When I do I get PMs from men and women explaining why I am wrong, sometimes with abuse.

Finally, that the same trope that having children is a lifestyle choice. Well, fuck it, some have to make that choice or our pensions and old age are going to be pretty bleak.

I have no doubt I'll be explained away. It's the equivalent of the pat on the head, let me tell you better because my chromosomes are different that is part of the quiet, daily oppression.

*mic drop*

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Is that it? Are we letting the economic conditions ... a high standard of middle class living needing two parents at work.... force us into a gender war?

Is that the main concern, a few quid?

Sounds like the minor grievances of a generally spoilt society.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"These threads are making me depressed, feeling oppressed and repressing my desire to talk to more and more forumites.

Indeed. Don't you just love it when men dominate an argument about women?

What are you adding to the debate? What's stopping women from commenting and getting involved? Should men not be allowed an opinion and why?

There's every opportunity for women to contribute equally and even dominate this thread. I wonder why they aren't?

I'll tell you why I rarely do now. When I do I get PMs from men and women explaining why I am wrong, sometimes with abuse.

Finally, that the same trope that having children is a lifestyle choice. Well, fuck it, some have to make that choice or our pensions and old age are going to be pretty bleak.

I have no doubt I'll be explained away. It's the equivalent of the pat on the head, let me tell you better because my chromosomes are different that is part of the quiet, daily oppression.

QED. I use one line to illustrate a point.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"With pregnancy you leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc... If you miss work. Pregnancy is a choice.

It shouldn’t have to be, “You can have kids or a successful career,” when men aren’t forced to make that choice. There’s your inequality, right there.

Surely that isn't forced on the woman but a decision made by the mother and father of the child?

Why must either partner choose to have their career handicapped?

I am not sure why you are asking me that. I didn't say either way was a handicap

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

"These threads are making me depressed, feeling oppressed and repressing my desire to talk to more and more forumites.

Indeed. Don't you just love it when men dominate an argument about women?

What are you adding to the debate? What's stopping women from commenting and getting involved? Should men not be allowed an opinion and why?

There's every opportunity for women to contribute equally and even dominate this thread. I wonder why they aren't?

I'll tell you why I rarely do now. When I do I get PMs from men and women explaining why I am wrong, sometimes with abuse.

Finally, that the same trope that having children is a lifestyle choice. Well, fuck it, some have to make that choice or our pensions and old age are going to be pretty bleak.

I have no doubt I'll be explained away. It's the equivalent of the pat on the head, let me tell you better because my chromosomes are different that is part of the quiet, daily oppression.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It’s story time again from your favorite American poster....

We have something called affirmative action in the USA. This states that minorities should get first chance for certain things because minorities are under represented.....

Me being the good capitalist , advised all my clients to incorporate their construction companies in their wives names. Because women are still considered a minority , and they will get preferential treatment when bidding for government contracts....

Guess what..... my clients all won huge government construction contracts because of this little loophole.....

Now will any of these wives go swing a hammer on a construction site?

Will these wives scream life isn’t fair?

Will any of these wives not want half of these companies if a divorce happens?

Feminist and the men that support them..

Please help me out.....

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"It’s story time again from your favorite American poster....

We have something called affirmative action in the USA. This states that minorities should get first chance for certain things because minorities are under represented.....

Guess what..... my clients all won huge government construction contracts because of this little loophole.....

Now will any of these wives go swing a hammer on a construction site?

Will these wives scream life isn’t fair?

Will any of these wives not want half of these companies if a divorce happens?

Feminist and the men that support them..

Please help me out.....

We don't have affirmative action here.

We have had men incorporate in their wives' name to avoid their bankruptcies affecting them.

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

"Is that it? Are we letting the economic conditions ... a high standard of middle class living needing two parents at work.... force us into a gender war?

Is that the main concern, a few quid?

Sounds like the minor grievances of a generally spoilt society. "

Sounds like someone desperate to worm his way out of an indefensible position.

"I am not sure why you are asking me that. I didn't say either way was a handicap "

It’s generally accepted that whichever parent takes the greatest share of childcare has their career adversely affected. I was simply making the point that saying they must decide between them is looking at the wrong part of the problem.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"These threads are making me depressed, feeling oppressed and repressing my desire to talk to more and more forumites.

Indeed. Don't you just love it when men dominate an argument about women?

What are you adding to the debate? What's stopping women from commenting and getting involved? Should men not be allowed an opinion and why?

There's every opportunity for women to contribute equally and even dominate this thread. I wonder why they aren't?

I'll tell you why I rarely do now. When I do I get PMs from men and women explaining why I am wrong, sometimes with abuse.

Finally, that the same trope that having children is a lifestyle choice. Well, fuck it, some have to make that choice or our pensions and old age are going to be pretty bleak.

I have no doubt I'll be explained away. It's the equivalent of the pat on the head, let me tell you better because my chromosomes are different that is part of the quiet, daily oppression.

Bravo

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"These threads are making me depressed, feeling oppressed and repressing my desire to talk to more and more forumites.

Indeed. Don't you just love it when men dominate an argument about women?

What are you adding to the debate? What's stopping women from commenting and getting involved? Should men not be allowed an opinion and why?

There's every opportunity for women to contribute equally and even dominate this thread. I wonder why they aren't?

I'll tell you why I rarely do now. When I do I get PMs from men and women explaining why I am wrong, sometimes with abuse.

Finally, that the same trope that having children is a lifestyle choice. Well, fuck it, some have to make that choice or our pensions and old age are going to be pretty bleak.

I have no doubt I'll be explained away. It's the equivalent of the pat on the head, let me tell you better because my chromosomes are different that is part of the quiet, daily oppression.

It's hardly a choice if the economic factors determines who should work, etc.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

Well who else will decide? The people who decide to have children do.

I must be missing something here

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

"I must be missing something here"

All of the text in my initial reply, which you deleted out of your quote.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Not having read the whole thread just picking up on the work thing it seems obvious we are too work dominated. Some of us arent bothered about endless promotions and missing out on work oppurtunities. I would rather not get the promotion and watch a sports day or a play. I had kids for a reason. And equally I know many stay at home dads or part time workers whilst the woman is the major wage earner.

I chose to be the one to stay at home and dont feel in any way oppressed by doing so or by missing employment oppurtunities Life isnt always a race to the end.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There’s a vast amount of missing the point going on in this thread. Sigh.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There’s a vast amount of missing the point going on in this thread. Sigh."

I dont want to have to read the whole thing

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There’s a vast amount of missing the point going on in this thread. Sigh.

I dont want to have to read the whole thing

Which equates as a nice comparison for if I personally don’t feel oppressed it must be evidence of there being no oppression.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There’s a vast amount of missing the point going on in this thread. Sigh.

I dont want to have to read the whole thing

Which equates as a nice comparison for if I personally don’t feel oppressed it must be evidence of there being no oppression.

The question was asking if women feel oppressed. I don't.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Not having read the whole thread just picking up on the work thing it seems obvious we are too work dominated. Some of us arent bothered about endless promotions and missing out on work oppurtunities. I would rather not get the promotion and watch a sports day or a play. I had kids for a reason. And equally I know many stay at home dads or part time workers whilst the woman is the major wage earner.

I chose to be the one to stay at home and dont feel in any way oppressed by doing so or by missing employment oppurtunities Life isnt always a race to the end. "

Sounds good to me.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There’s a vast amount of missing the point going on in this thread. Sigh.

I dont want to have to read the whole thing

Which equates as a nice comparison for if I personally don’t feel oppressed it must be evidence of there being no oppression.

The question was asking if women feel oppressed. I don't. "

I know, you’ve said. I wasn’t stating the OP semantically or not.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I can't be arse to read any of the thread.

Stop talking Impy, or you will be re-pressed

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I can’t help but wonder how so many men can answer on our behalf on this thread, whether women still feel oppressed or not.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"I must be missing something here

All of the text in my initial reply, which you deleted out of your quote."

Because I didn't think it was relevant to why I wrote the comment of "Surely that isn't forced on the woman but a decision made by the mother and father of the child? "

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"There’s a vast amount of missing the point going on in this thread. Sigh."

Or maybe just don't think like you....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There’s a vast amount of missing the point going on in this thread. Sigh.

Or maybe just don't think like you...."

That too. But one doesn’t negate the other.

And all of which are allowed. I’m just commenting and sighing.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"I must be missing something here

All of the text in my initial reply, which you deleted out of your quote.

Because I didn't think it was relevant to why I wrote the comment of "Surely that isn't forced on the woman but a decision made by the mother and father of the child? ""

My point I was making was...two people get together, have babies, they have a discussion...one or the other stops work to bring up the baby, or they get a childminder so both can go back to work. That doesn't mean women are forced to do something, surely in a healthy relationship it is a joint decision.

My comments were nothing to do with work practises.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

And all of which are allowed.

Surely that doesn't need to be said when someone answers you

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And all of which are allowed.

Surely that doesn't need to be said when someone answers you"

Perhaps not with you, I’ll warrant and hope. But often it does given the responses I get, so it’s kinda my reflex to be clear on here these days.

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By *iSTARessWoman over a year ago

London

"These threads are making me depressed, feeling oppressed and repressing my desire to talk to more and more forumites.

Indeed. Don't you just love it when men dominate an argument about women?

What are you adding to the debate? What's stopping women from commenting and getting involved? Should men not be allowed an opinion and why?

There's every opportunity for women to contribute equally and even dominate this thread. I wonder why they aren't?

I'll tell you why I rarely do now. When I do I get PMs from men and women explaining why I am wrong, sometimes with abuse.

Finally, that the same trope that having children is a lifestyle choice. Well, fuck it, some have to make that choice or our pensions and old age are going to be pretty bleak.

I have no doubt I'll be explained away. It's the equivalent of the pat on the head, let me tell you better because my chromosomes are different that is part of the quiet, daily oppression.

Exactly. This.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

And all of which are allowed.

Surely that doesn't need to be said when someone answers you

Perhaps not with you, I’ll warrant and hope. But often it does given the responses I get, so it’s kinda my reflex to be clear on here these days. "

I am sure other people know posters are allowed their views too without the need to be told

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And all of which are allowed.

Surely that doesn't need to be said when someone answers you

Perhaps not with you, I’ll warrant and hope. But often it does given the responses I get, so it’s kinda my reflex to be clear on here these days.

I am sure other people know posters are allowed their views too without the need to be told

Well thanks for telling me. I’ll be sure to comply.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

I chose to be the one to stay at home and dont feel in any way oppressed by doing so or by missing employment oppurtunities Life isnt always a race to the end. "

This for me too, only it was us as a couple who decided I was going to pack in work and bring up the children. Yes I know we were lucky that we could afford it but I have never felt oppressed and I enjoyed staying home and bringing up our children.I even enjoyed having the hubby's tea on the table when he came in.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I chose to be the one to stay at home and dont feel in any way oppressed by doing so or by missing employment oppurtunities Life isnt always a race to the end.

I hope that when we have children I will be in a financially situation where I’ll be able to quit working and looking after our children full time

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

And all of which are allowed.

Surely that doesn't need to be said when someone answers you

Perhaps not with you, I’ll warrant and hope. But often it does given the responses I get, so it’s kinda my reflex to be clear on here these days.

I am sure other people know posters are allowed their views too without the need to be told

Well thanks for telling me. I’ll be sure to comply. "

This is why I hardly ever join in on the forum, it is hard work when people try to goad for no reason.

Maybe time for me to sigh now

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And all of which are allowed.

Surely that doesn't need to be said when someone answers you

Perhaps not with you, I’ll warrant and hope. But often it does given the responses I get, so it’s kinda my reflex to be clear on here these days.

I am sure other people know posters are allowed their views too without the need to be told

Well thanks for telling me. I’ll be sure to comply.

This is why I hardly ever join in on the forum, it is hard work when people try to goad for no reason.

Maybe time for me to sigh now"

I wasn’t goading. I wasn’t having a dig. I’ve had not so nice interactions from people when I’ve not been so explicitly clear, and I’m sorry I’m still trying to be explicitly clear so as not to get the same. It did feel a little like you were telling me how I should post, when I had already explained it was a reflex and why.

I’m trying to take your point and perhaps show you it wasn’t about goading.

I can’t get it right.

I’ll go.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

I chose to be the one to stay at home and dont feel in any way oppressed by doing so or by missing employment oppurtunities Life isnt always a race to the end.

I hope that when we have children I will be in a financially situation where I’ll be able to quit working and looking after our children full time "

Sadly it is more difficult now then when we had our kids...most people have to work to pay the huge morgages and cost of living. OK at the time we thought our morgage was big ( it was buttons to what people need now ) but it seemed more managable to what people have to get now to be able to buy.

I know we were lucky

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I chose to be the one to stay at home and dont feel in any way oppressed by doing so or by missing employment oppurtunities Life isnt always a race to the end.

I hope that when we have children I will be in a financially situation where I’ll be able to quit working and looking after our children full time

I know we were lucky

I’ve seen the price of childcare, I work with children and I would literally be working to put children into nursery or a childminders. But god knows if I could afford anything else. It’s so difficult. I don’t even have children and this sort of thing literally keeps me up at night!!!

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By *loswingersCouple over a year ago

Gloucester

On the last thread about this m y husband spoke for me . Well , he asked me what I thought and I answered . And a few people were critical because I said I didn’t feel oppressed and that I had no time for such nonsense as I was getting ready to go out .

Well this time I’m going to say that I feel very happy to raise my son , and just work part time so I can take him to school and pick him up . I also love to keep the house clean and tidy and have my families food on the table for them . I also feel grateful that I’m able to to do all this as financially we are fortunate enough to not have to worry about money . This is down to my husband , and I’m lucky , I know this .

Why should I feel oppressed ?

Someone had a dig on the last thread for saying we were glad that women get treated equally , but didn’t want it on our doorstep . So what ? There’s all manner of things we don’t not want on our doorstep . The question was whether women on here felt oppressed , and I don’t .

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By *lbert_shlossedMan over a year ago

Manchester

I chose to be the one to stay at home and dont feel in any way oppressed by doing so or by missing employment oppurtunities Life isnt always a race to the end.

"
.

This is the truly annoying bit about feminists, they make you feel bad about your own choices and then use your choices as evidence of some bullshit oppression that suits there agenda of victimisation.

I personally love freedom and equality of law, it's the greatest thing since sliced bread

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There’s a vast amount of missing the point going on in this thread. Sigh.

I dont want to have to read the whole thing

Which equates as a nice comparison for if I personally don’t feel oppressed it must be evidence of there being no oppression.

Our ears are open - the main scapegoats seem to domestic and sexual violence and the economics of parenting.

What else is there?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sounds like someone desperate to worm his way out of an indefensible position.

You mean like you are, in saying this. Everything I've said is defensible, whereas your positions are too simple and flawed - but I did get one thing mixed up when answering you yesterday so I'll be clear now:

SV and DV is an intractable fact of life which can never be reduced to zero - some people are simply maladjusted dickheads.

Equal pay is possible but only by totalitarian, unfair and anti free-choice means (or a utopia of robots and universal surplus income). Humans are heirarchial social creatures and attempts to reverse that always back fire (e.g. communism).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What is 'feminism'?

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

"My point I was making was...two people get together, have babies, they have a discussion...one or the other stops work to bring up the baby, or they get a childminder so both can go back to work. That doesn't mean women are forced to do something, surely in a healthy relationship it is a joint decision.

My comments were nothing to do with work practises."

Not in your case, no. But, for a great many couples, those decisions are informed by working practices, which are also informed by the stigma that is still attached to mothers going back to work. This is often countered by, “But I / we / people in this thread say they’re fine with women working and having children.” That doesn’t negate the fact that there is still a stigma, and women are still being made to feel guilty.

You’re also still focusing on the wrong problem, which is the point I’ve been trying to communicate to you. “In a healthy relationship it’s a joint decision.” Well, in a healthy society, it isn’t a decision that HAS to be made.

The point that many are missing in this thread is that some women saying that they, personally, don’t feel oppressed, is not evidence of no oppression. Now, the response to that is often, “I’m being told I can’t be happy,” and that is absolutely not the case. Time and time again the response is, “It’s great that you’re happy, but please recognise that not everyone is, and it’s really tiring seeing that constantly misrepresented.

"Why should I feel oppressed ?"

Has anyone said you should?

"Our ears are open - the main scapegoats seem to domestic and sexual violence and the economics of parenting.

What else is there?"

Congratulations on being flippant and dismissive of sexual violence. You must be so proud.

Congratulations, too, on thinking that because you have caused the discussion to focus on those points, by arguing points that you later conceded were false, that these are the only arguments. You’ve completely failed, for example, to acknowledge all of the points in Licketysplits’ post, which hit the nail on the head.

"Equal pay is possible but only by totalitarian, unfair and anti free-choice means (or a utopia of robots and universal surplus income). Humans are heirarchial social creatures and attempts to reverse that always back fire (e.g. communism)."

Ironic that this comes in the same post as you accusing me of having simple arguments. Just because you can’t comprehend a totally fair system, it doesn’t mean it isn’t possible. And, as I’ve tried to get you to understand, but you seem either unable or unwilling to grasp, is that saying that there is no solution to a problem does not mean that the problem does not exist.

Your line of argument in this thread boils down to, “There isn’t a problem. If you think there’s a problem, you’re making it up, because there is no solution to the problem.” It’s almost impressive.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

It's a strange argument that just because we will never get completely equal pay and never completely eradicate domestic violence, we shouldn't do our very best to deal with those issues.

The logical extension of that argument is that we shouldn't try to stop people committing theft or murder because we will never completely eradicate those crimes.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

My comments were nothing to do with work practises.

You’re also still focusing on the wrong problem, which is the point I’ve been trying to communicate to you.

To be fair, maybe it was you missing the point of my post.

I didn't want to communicate about working practises or any other issues. I wasn't discussing how working women have problems at work as I have no experience of it when I had my children and didn't try and discuss it.

What I mentioned was that no one is forced to do anything within a relationship (unless you don't have a healthy relationship) and that includes how childcare is planned regardless of gender

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By *eavenscentitCouple over a year ago

barnstaple

White men have enormous power and status in our society. The rest of us are often described as minorities ! The equality Act legislation was needed because of this.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And all of which are allowed.

Surely that doesn't need to be said when someone answers you

Perhaps not with you, I’ll warrant and hope. But often it does given the responses I get, so it’s kinda my reflex to be clear on here these days.

I am sure other people know posters are allowed their views too without the need to be told

Well thanks for telling me. I’ll be sure to comply. "

Get a room you two

Oddly enough some people do need telling or guiding. Some people need directing to the FAQ. I've not known you to be prickly Estella, so have a clear conscience

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By *rsTrellisWoman over a year ago

Cambridge

[Removed by poster at 29/07/18 12:15:01]

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By *rsTrellisWoman over a year ago

Cambridge

Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's a strange argument that just because we will never get completely equal pay and never completely eradicate domestic violence, we shouldn't do our very best to deal with those issues.

The logical extension of that argument is that we shouldn't try to stop people committing theft or murder because we will never completely eradicate those crimes. "

My argument is they are red herrings of limited effect to how the average woman lives her life and her access to equal treatment in the game of life.

You can advocate for those causes all you like and more power to you, but save us the man hating, "all women are second class citizens", yrt "it's all about equality" diatribe while you are it.

Think about the effects of in vs. out group psychology and ask yourself honestly if that type of conflict is a holistically positive benefit to society.

Case in point are the many women here who are sick of this sort of victimising guff, who are happy that they control their own lives rather than being told that they are oppressed.

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By *loswingersCouple over a year ago

Gloucester

[Removed by poster at 29/07/18 12:25:59]

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By *loswingersCouple over a year ago

Gloucester

[Removed by poster at 29/07/18 12:25:55]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all."

People like you treating about a billion people as the same ARE the problem.

Men are also hugely under represented in positions of power. You fail to think statistically and emotionally rush to logical dead ends.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all."

I can agree with this. So as a sex women are oppressed irrespective of whether we women perceive it individually or not.

That's the thread sorted, no?

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

"It's a strange argument that just because we will never get completely equal pay and never completely eradicate domestic violence, we shouldn't do our very best to deal with those issues.

The logical extension of that argument is that we shouldn't try to stop people committing theft or murder because we will never completely eradicate those crimes.

My argument is they are red herrings of limited effect to how the average woman lives her life and her access to equal treatment in the game of life.

You can advocate for those causes all you like and more power to you, but save us the man hating, "all women are second class citizens", yrt "it's all about equality" diatribe while you are it.

Think about the effects of in vs. out group psychology and ask yourself honestly if that type of conflict is a holistically positive benefit to society.

Case in point are the many women here who are sick of this sort of victimising guff, who are happy that they control their own lives rather than being told that they are oppressed. "

Mens oppression of women is located in basic biology. Most men are stronger than most women so have the basic physical power, as a class of people, to get what they want from women.

The only way women can avoid that kind of class oppression is to use argument and discussion to persuade men not to use that physical powet against them.

I am surprised that some people can't see those bleeding obvious facts.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all.

People like you treating about a billion people as the same ARE the problem.

Men are also hugely under represented in positions of power. You fail to think statistically and emotionally rush to logical dead ends. "

If women are under represented in power and men are under represented in power, then who or what the fuck is in power?

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all.

People like you treating about a billion people as the same ARE the problem.

Men are also hugely under represented in positions of power. You fail to think statistically and emotionally rush to logical dead ends. "

On come on. Most men will never get jobs that pay over £100,000 a year. On your argument if there was a law that only men could have such jobs, that wouldn't be oppressive of women because most men would never get such jobs.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I cant remember which countries did this but they tried to battle this "sexist problem" and created programmes to encourage and help women to achieve everything they needed to get the qualifications needed to get well respected highly paid jobs, companies willing to take on these women all the way from sciences to government jobs to multi billion dollar industries, and it failed miserably, they found that even when given the choice and the opportunity still very few women chose to take it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all.

People like you treating about a billion people as the same ARE the problem.

Men are also hugely under represented in positions of power. You fail to think statistically and emotionally rush to logical dead ends.

What????

No idea what sort of madness you are peddling now. No-one is talking about laws about who gets what jobs.

We have a good system already called people getting places on their merits (unfortunately on nepotism and connections too....).

Very few people get top jobs...men or women, so that using that angle to claim systematic oppression is bogus.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all.

People like you treating about a billion people as the same ARE the problem.

Men are also hugely under represented in positions of power. You fail to think statistically and emotionally rush to logical dead ends.

If women are under represented in power and men are under represented in power, then who or what the fuck is in power?

Cats. They're taking over the planet, I tells ya

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all.

I can agree with this. So as a sex women are oppressed irrespective of whether we women perceive it individually or not.

That's the thread sorted, no?

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all.

People like you treating about a billion people as the same ARE the problem.

Men are also hugely under represented in positions of power. You fail to think statistically and emotionally rush to logical dead ends.

What????

No idea what sort of madness you are peddling now. No-one is talking about laws about who gets what jobs.

We have a good system already called people getting places on their merits (unfortunately on nepotism and connections too....).

Very few people get top jobs...men or women, so that using that angle to claim systematic oppression is bogus.

Ok. In words of one syllable.

Your argument is that even if 0% of people in category A get a set of desirable limited resources and 100% of those resources go to people in category B, there is no discrimination against people in category A as long as the majority of people in category B don't get said resources.

Thus you say that the lack of women in positions of power is not discrimination against women because most men don't get top jobs.

It follows as a matter of basic logic that if there was a law banning women from top jobs that would not be discrimination against women as most men would still not get the top jobs.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Women have top jobs too, some jobs are just more suited for males and some to females, males dominate such jobs as sciences and military jobs, females dominate such jobs as teaching and nursing, what does it matter? Theres plenty stay at home dads aswell as mums, there are women in government and business owners.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all.

I can agree with this. So as a sex women are oppressed irrespective of whether we women perceive it individually or not.

That's the thread sorted, no?

We should feel oppressed and not be capable of thinking for ourselves.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Also if you take the scale of men and womens I.Q then you see that most women hover about the middle, obviously some on the higher and lower end of the scale but not many for the most part its about average, then men can go all the way from fucktarded moron all the way up to genius, this is why prisons are mainly male populated and also why most geniuses throughout history are male... in conclusion we will never have equality as we are just built unequal physically and mentally

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Also if you take the scale of men and womens I.Q then you see that most women hover about the middle, obviously some on the higher and lower end of the scale but not many for the most part its about average, then men can go all the way from fucktarded moron all the way up to genius, this is why prisons are mainly male populated and also why most geniuses throughout history are male... in conclusion we will never have equality as we are just built unequal physically and mentally"

Nothing to do with historical education system, eh

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all.

I can agree with this. So as a sex women are oppressed irrespective of whether we women perceive it individually or not.

That's the thread sorted, no?

We should feel oppressed and not be capable of thinking for ourselves. "

It's an interesting existential point as to whether oppression is an objective or subjective condition.

Was a slave on a plantation in the deep South circa 1850 oppressed if he didn't feel oppressed?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all.

I can agree with this. So as a sex women are oppressed irrespective of whether we women perceive it individually or not.

That's the thread sorted, no?

We should feel oppressed and not be capable of thinking for ourselves.

It's an interesting existential point as to whether oppression is an objective or subjective condition.

Was a slave on a plantation in the deep South circa 1850 oppressed if he didn't feel oppressed? "

Good point. Probably down to the wording. Perhaps he didn't feel oppressed, even though in reality he was.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all.

I can agree with this. So as a sex women are oppressed irrespective of whether we women perceive it individually or not.

That's the thread sorted, no?

We should feel oppressed and not be capable of thinking for ourselves.

It's an interesting existential point as to whether oppression is an objective or subjective condition.

Was a slave on a plantation in the deep South circa 1850 oppressed if he didn't feel oppressed? "

Beautifully put.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all.

I can agree with this. So as a sex women are oppressed irrespective of whether we women perceive it individually or not.

That's the thread sorted, no?

We should feel oppressed and not be capable of thinking for ourselves. "

Oops i don't belong to that special group

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Is this a serious post?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Is this a serious post?"

God yes, cos everybody knows where they lie on the intelligence quotient spectrum

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By *rsTrellisWoman over a year ago

Cambridge

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all.

People like you treating about a billion people as the same ARE the problem.

Men are also hugely under represented in positions of power. You fail to think statistically and emotionally rush to logical dead ends.

What????

No idea what sort of madness you are peddling now. No-one is talking about laws about who gets what jobs.

We have a good system already called people getting places on their merits (unfortunately on nepotism and connections too....).

Very few people get top jobs...men or women, so that using that angle to claim systematic oppression is bogus.

It would help you a lot if you knew what “underrepresented “ meant.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This can't possibly be true because it's a white man saying it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My comments were nothing to do with work practises.

You’re also still focusing on the wrong problem, which is the point I’ve been trying to communicate to you.

To be fair, maybe it was you missing the point of my post.

What I mentioned was that no one is forced to do anything within a relationship (unless you don't have a healthy relationship) and that includes how childcare is planned regardless of gender"

It may have been the fact you posted that point in reply to a conversation already about the other topic, hence the continued clarifications. It wasn’t related unless you’d misunderstood the initial discussion, which is probably what was being clarified. I don’t think DO had missed that point at all, just IMO.

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By *rsTrellisWoman over a year ago

Cambridge

I would reply to you but I’m too stupid. I’ll just beat my lady-fists against this keyboard-thingy and hope my stupid ickle thoughts don’t interrupt your superior man-thinking.

BTW, “women’s” has an apostrophe and you need the adverb “unequally” rather than “unequal”.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all.

People like you treating about a billion people as the same ARE the problem.

Men are also hugely under represented in positions of power. You fail to think statistically and emotionally rush to logical dead ends.

If women are under represented in power and men are under represented in power, then who or what the fuck is in power?

Cats. They're taking over the planet, I tells ya

Are you sure it's not the lizard people - we do have Queen Liz for a start

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all.

I can agree with this. So as a sex women are oppressed irrespective of whether we women perceive it individually or not.

That's the thread sorted, no?

We should feel oppressed and not be capable of thinking for ourselves.

It's an interesting existential point as to whether oppression is an objective or subjective condition.

Was a slave on a plantation in the deep South circa 1850 oppressed if he didn't feel oppressed?

Good point. Probably down to the wording. Perhaps he didn't feel oppressed, even though in reality he was. "

The issue is with social conditioning.

We are all socially conditioned in one way or another and from his birth our slave would have been told by his owners, the government and the church that his condition was a fair and natural one and willed by God and that in providing him with food, accommodation and clothing his master was good to him.

An alternative consciousness only develops when you come across different points of view.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

Of course we could be just coming to it from different angles. The other part of the quote was discussing women as in "With pregnancy you leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc... If you miss work. Pregnancy is a choice."

I believe this to be true, pregnancy is a choice and if someone chooses to have children then someone has to look after the child whether that is a childminder so the parents can work or one of the parents. If the latter was the case then one of the parents need to accept that they will miss out on promotions etc as they won't be at work as much as before or at all so may get overlooked

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I understand and understood that. The crux of the point is the phrase “one of the parents *need* to accept that they will miss out on promotions etc” - this was the focus point as to whether things could be different in society that it didn’t *have* to be a loss for the person choosing to be at home, whether that one individual was unbothered or not about the loss, but the discussion as to why it should even have to be a consideration (beyond the things that happen at work during the exact timeframe they’re at home, but in terms of their overall career).

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

The quote said "leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc" rather than have to lose out.

Something has to give once you decide to have children. OK I wasn't an ambitious woman in the workplace and didn't care abut promotions, but if I was and left for a while knew there would always be someone who would shine while I was away and get that promotion I was after...that comes down to, I made the choice to leave work for a while, whatever the reason and lost out.

Damn, now I am talking about workplaces when I didn't want to....off to make the yorkshires instead

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The quote said "leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc" rather than have to lose out.

Damn, now I am talking about workplaces when I didn't want to....off to make the yorkshires instead

Sorry, I was quoting from you, not anywhere else. I really do understand your point. My point and the point DO had been making previously is different. I’ll leave it there as it’s about a topic you don’t want to talk about. I was just trying to explain that we are talking about separate topics.

Hope the Yorkshire’s are yummy.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

I didn't say anywhere that people "have" to lose out.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ok lets just stop tiptoeing around the obvious here... FUCK WOMEN!!! You bitches should be grateful that you live in a country with one of the best systems in the world, fucking complaining about how you cant get a high up government job that you dont even want in the first place and complaining how you wouldnt get enough pay if you were lucky enough to land that job, meanwhile in other countries women are being dragged into the streets and beaten then stoned to death because she was r*ped and had a child out of wedlock, if your so worried about women then go fly over there and complain... hmmm fly, im pretty sure men are responsible for flight, one on many great inventions we have given you, what have you given us accept a sore head? If it wasnt for us men then you bitches would still be stuck in the stone age trying to figure out how your vagina works.

Jokes folks, just jokes

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all."

Curse those straight white men

As a protest, I think that everyone (except straight white men of course) should stop using or benefiting from anything invented or created by straight white men. That'll learn 'em

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I didn't say anywhere that people "have" to lose out.

Which I’ve not said you did. I quoted your “need to accept”.

I still think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not sure how to explain further, but I’m certainly not putting words in your mouth, so please don’t think that.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Ok lets just stop tiptoeing around the obvious here... FUCK WOMEN!!! You bitches should be grateful that you live in a country with one of the best systems in the world, fucking complaining about how you cant get a high up government job that you dont even want in the first place and complaining how you wouldnt get enough pay if you were lucky enough to land that job, meanwhile in other countries women are being dragged into the streets and beaten then stoned to death because she was r*ped and had a child out of wedlock, if your so worried about women then go fly over there and complain... hmmm fly, im pretty sure men are responsible for flight, one on many great inventions we have given you, what have you given us accept a sore head? If it wasnt for us men then you bitches would still be stuck in the stone age trying to figure out how your vagina works.

Jokes folks, just jokes

I refer you to my posts in thread one. Including the issue with jokes.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Jokes folks, just jokes

Sadly, jokes have no impact on the permanently offended band-wagon jumpers. They may make some of them fall off their high horses laughing though

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"I didn't say anywhere that people "have" to lose out.

Which I’ve not said you did. I quoted your “need to accept”.

I still think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not sure how to explain further, but I’m certainly not putting words in your mouth, so please don’t think that.

I am not sure this is going anywhere as I quote something I didn't want to, you answer that post and ...oh never mind.

All I will say is if people go into having babies without realising that they need to accept things will change in their life ( whatever that entails )then they are kidding themselves.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I didn't say anywhere that people "have" to lose out.

Which I’ve not said you did. I quoted your “need to accept”.

I still think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not sure how to explain further, but I’m certainly not putting words in your mouth, so please don’t think that.

I am not sure this is going anywhere as I quote something I didn't want to, you answer that post and ...oh never mind.

All I will say is if people go into having babies without realising that they need to accept things will change in their life ( whatever that entails )then they are kidding themselves.

And I disagree it has to be that way.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

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By *rsTrellisWoman over a year ago

Cambridge

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all.

Curse those straight white men

As a protest, I think that everyone (except straight white men of course) should stop using or benefiting from anything invented or created by straight white men. That'll learn 'em

Deliberately missing the point, and mocking a point that wasn’t made, doesn’t undermine my point.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The quote said "leave yourself open to losing out on promotions etc" rather than have to lose out.

Damn, now I am talking about workplaces when I didn't want to....off to make the yorkshires instead

Imagine if all women who work decided to not have children because it would ruin their chances of promotion.

Men would complain that we aren't doing our duty for mankind by having their babies.

We would end up with nurseries filled with surrogate babies on breeding farms

I should write a book about this!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Women are disproportionately abused in the home, disproportionately sexually assaulted, disproportionately underpaid, disproportionately underrepresented in powerful positions.

That’s oppression right there. Anyone who doesn’t see it or feel it is in denial.

And straight, white men, using annecdote to deny the problem, are a huge part of the problem.

Equality for women benefits us all.

Curse those straight white men

As a protest, I think that everyone (except straight white men of course) should stop using or benefiting from anything invented or created by straight white men. That'll learn 'em

Deliberately missing the point, and mocking a point that wasn’t made, doesn’t undermine my point. "

Does show the poster’s limitations though.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thing about pregnancy being a choice is it will never be a choice men will have to make.

Will every man in a commited relationship be happy if their female partner said they don't want a child because it will ruin their career?

What about older women who haven't had children and are overlooked for promotion "just in case" they might decide to have a baby. They are having their career oppressed because they and their make partner want a child.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Jokes folks, just jokes

I refer you to my posts in thread one. Including the issue with jokes."

I'd better "check my privilege"

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By *rsTrellisWoman over a year ago

Cambridge

Jokes folks, just jokes

I refer you to my posts in thread one. Including the issue with jokes.

I'd better "check my privilege""

You should.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Jokes folks, just jokes

I refer you to my posts in thread one. Including the issue with jokes.

I'd better "check my privilege""

Which is absolutely not what I was saying, actually. Check the first thread was what I was saying.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Jokes folks, just jokes

I refer you to my posts in thread one. Including the issue with jokes.

I'd better "check my privilege"

You should. "

He wouldn’t know how to.

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