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Facts vrs Feelings
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Facts and logic are out of fashion. Feelings seem to be winning the war on truth. Why is this and when did it start?
You can become US President by appealing to raw emotion and not even pretending to be speaking factually, logically or even coherently (remember that Obama "founded ISIS"). Men can enter womens sports as long as they "identify as" women - whatever the fuck that means. It seems that aeroplanes are the only things that people want experts to be in control of, otherwise 'expert' is a dirty word.
When did this start and where did it come from? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't know I don't sleep 8 hours at night
You're 32, the beta-amyloid build up hasn't hurt you that much yet. Go on, what does your gut tell you? "
I don't have any gut, lost them in a fight agaisnt three chinese men. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't know I don't sleep 8 hours at night
You're 32, the beta-amyloid build up hasn't hurt you that much yet. Go on, what does your gut tell you? "
I can make words up too gooblefornderling  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't know I don't sleep 8 hours at night
You're 32, the beta-amyloid build up hasn't hurt you that much yet. Go on, what does your gut tell you?
I can make words up too gooblefornderling "
That’s Icelandic for dildo and you know it. |
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"You blocked me along time ago OP, that is a FACT, it hurt my FEELINGS. "
Actually i unblocked you because you're sometimes funny and not entirely crazy. But you blocked me which is why you don't see our profile. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You blocked me along time ago OP, that is a FACT, it hurt my FEELINGS.
Actually i unblocked you because you're sometimes funny and not entirely crazy. But you blocked me which is why you don't see our profile. "
#lovestory
I can sense the sexual tension between those two  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You blocked me along time ago OP, that is a FACT, it hurt my FEELINGS.
Actually i unblocked you because you're sometimes funny and not entirely crazy. But you blocked me which is why you don't see our profile. "
So I’ve been crying myself to sleep for months for nothing ?! |
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"I don't know when it started but I feel its probably got something to do with Fraggle Rock "
You gave a good analysis earlier, but the thread closed before we had time to go into it. I agree that abuses of science have given numerous examples for the anti-scientific to point to in their defence. But i don't think that entirely explains the current trend. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't know I don't sleep 8 hours at night
You're 32, the beta-amyloid build up hasn't hurt you that much yet. Go on, what does your gut tell you?
I can make words up too gooblefornderling
That’s Icelandic for dildo and you know it."
I know its the stinging kind  |
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"Fuck knows, but it's annoying."
I watched a good analysis on trumps election on YouTube. His elevator pitch was "politics needs an outsider to drain the swamp". Now I'm not saying that's right or wrong. But 1. It worked and 2. Clinton didn't actually argue against it. She tried to say she was an outsider because she was a woman (terrible logic). Obama came out and said "well do you want an outsider to do your heart surgery too?" (Much better logic). |
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"You blocked me along time ago OP, that is a FACT, it hurt my FEELINGS.
Actually i unblocked you because you're sometimes funny and not entirely crazy. But you blocked me which is why you don't see our profile.
So I’ve been crying myself to sleep for months for nothing ?! "
Yup and if you unblock me then you can see pictures of my lovely wife and i can stare at your cock again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You blocked me along time ago OP, that is a FACT, it hurt my FEELINGS.
Actually i unblocked you because you're sometimes funny and not entirely crazy. But you blocked me which is why you don't see our profile.
So I’ve been crying myself to sleep for months for nothing ?!
Yup and if you unblock me then you can see pictures of my lovely wife and i can stare at your cock again. "
Way ahead of you, she is lovely. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't know when it started but I feel its probably got something to do with Fraggle Rock
You gave a good analysis earlier, but the thread closed before we had time to go into it. I agree that abuses of science have given numerous examples for the anti-scientific to point to in their defence. But i don't think that entirely explains the current trend. "
It's Bush Jr init. The old "trust me I'm blatantly lying to you" speaking tactic that won us all over to his charms. After that was shown to work, statecraft strategicians everywhere suddenly realised bold faced lies work just as well these days as carefully camouflaged ones... and involve half the effort   |
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"I don't know when it started but I feel its probably got something to do with Fraggle Rock
You gave a good analysis earlier, but the thread closed before we had time to go into it. I agree that abuses of science have given numerous examples for the anti-scientific to point to in their defence. But i don't think that entirely explains the current trend.
It's Bush Jr init. The old "trust me I'm blatantly lying to you" speaking tactic that won us all over to his charms. After that was shown to work, statecraft strategicians everywhere suddenly realised bold faced lies work just as well these days as carefully camouflaged ones... and involve half the effort "
Ah yes, Bush Jnr. I always wonder if lefties have forgotten about him when they complain about how bad trump is.
I think it really took off in 2008. I think a lot of people felt like 'well we trusted the 'experts' to run the economy and they fucked that up on a royal scale. None of them got punished for it. If that's what an expert is then maybe we shouldn't trust experts'. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We're living in a post-truth society, it's a free-for-all.
I just won an under-12 girls' egg and spoon race, good times
*polishes trophy*
But when did it start and why? "
I think "post truth" describes politics that appeal to emotion not facts. I dunno. It's a recent phrase but those kind of politics have been around since forever.
Ditto flat earth and such stuff, this kind of thing has gone on for centuries.
Maybe there's an element of backlash too, against the culture of hard facts which has dominated the last couple of centuries or so.
As far as individuals go, I suppose it's the inevitable consequence of society's increasing acceptance of an individual's right to self-determination which probably took hold around the late medieval/early modern era. The age of reason, rennaisance etc.
Sports are a problem if some guy can just call himself female and go on to win a load of medals (if you care about sport, that is) but on the whole I think it's a good thing, this dissolving of socially ingrained labels and limits. Sure it has problems, but I don't think it makes the process itself a bad one.
Waffle waffle. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We're living in a post-truth society, it's a free-for-all.
I just won an under-12 girls' egg and spoon race, good times
*polishes trophy*
But when did it start and why?
I think "post truth" describes politics that appeal to emotion not facts. I dunno. It's a recent phrase but those kind of politics have been around since forever.
Ditto flat earth and such stuff, this kind of thing has gone on for centuries.
Maybe there's an element of backlash too, against the culture of hard facts which has dominated the last couple of centuries or so.
As far as individuals go, I suppose it's the inevitable consequence of society's increasing acceptance of an individual's right to self-determination which probably took hold around the late medieval/early modern era. The age of reason, rennaisance etc.
Sports are a problem if some guy can just call himself female and go on to win a load of medals (if you care about sport, that is) but on the whole I think it's a good thing, this dissolving of socially ingrained labels and limits. Sure it has problems, but I don't think it makes the process itself a bad one.
Waffle waffle. "
And what about the egg and spoon race. (When and why) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't know when it started but I feel its probably got something to do with Fraggle Rock
You gave a good analysis earlier, but the thread closed before we had time to go into it. I agree that abuses of science have given numerous examples for the anti-scientific to point to in their defence. But i don't think that entirely explains the current trend.
It's Bush Jr init. The old "trust me I'm blatantly lying to you" speaking tactic that won us all over to his charms. After that was shown to work, statecraft strategicians everywhere suddenly realised bold faced lies work just as well these days as carefully camouflaged ones... and involve half the effort
Ah yes, Bush Jnr. I always wonder if lefties have forgotten about him when they complain about how bad trump is.
I think it really took off in 2008. I think a lot of people felt like 'well we trusted the 'experts' to run the economy and they fucked that up on a royal scale. None of them got punished for it. If that's what an expert is then maybe we shouldn't trust experts'."
I think the rot is deeper than that. There's a gut intuition in the vast majority of people that postmodernism is wrong. But none of our intellectuals have yet convincingly shown where it's wrong enough so that we can confidently move forward into a new post postmodern era... whatever the heck we're going to call that. As a result people are trying to move forward by developing a deep disregard and distrust for intellectuals |
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"We're living in a post-truth society, it's a free-for-all.
I just won an under-12 girls' egg and spoon race, good times
*polishes trophy*
But when did it start and why?
I think "post truth" describes politics that appeal to emotion not facts. I dunno. It's a recent phrase but those kind of politics have been around since forever.
"
I agree that some people have always voted for the most charismatic person /the best talker or whether. But generally those politicians used to at least pay lip service to logic. I think the scale has changed to the point where trump can basically say " Oh fuck facts, people will vote for me because I'm more charismatic". Contrary to popular belief, he doesn't talk random nonsense. He tends to invoke things like 'social proof' over facts. So he doesn't claim that there's any evidence a given policy will work, he appeals to the social proof that someone important sounding endorsed the policy. Apparently that works better
"
Ditto flat earth and such stuff, this kind of thing has gone on for centuries.
Maybe there's an element of backlash too, against the culture of hard facts which has dominated the last couple of centuries or so.
As far as individuals go, I suppose it's the inevitable consequence of society's increasing acceptance of an individual's right to self-determination which probably took hold around the late medieval/early modern era. The age of reason, rennaisance etc.
"
I think some of it is backlash for the self esteem movement whereby people grew up getting medals for putting on a tie properly and now they believe there is only an inch between their opinion and 40 scientific papers on a matter
"
Sports are a problem if some guy can just call himself female and go on to win a load of medals (if you care about sport, that is) but on the whole I think it's a good thing, this dissolving of socially ingrained labels and limits. Sure it has problems, but I don't think it makes the process itself a bad one.
Waffle waffle. "
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We're living in a post-truth society, it's a free-for-all.
I just won an under-12 girls' egg and spoon race, good times
*polishes trophy*
But when did it start and why?
I think "post truth" describes politics that appeal to emotion not facts. I dunno. It's a recent phrase but those kind of politics have been around since forever.
Ditto flat earth and such stuff, this kind of thing has gone on for centuries.
Maybe there's an element of backlash too, against the culture of hard facts which has dominated the last couple of centuries or so.
As far as individuals go, I suppose it's the inevitable consequence of society's increasing acceptance of an individual's right to self-determination which probably took hold around the late medieval/early modern era. The age of reason, rennaisance etc.
Sports are a problem if some guy can just call himself female and go on to win a load of medals (if you care about sport, that is) but on the whole I think it's a good thing, this dissolving of socially ingrained labels and limits. Sure it has problems, but I don't think it makes the process itself a bad one.
Waffle waffle.
And what about the egg and spoon race. (When and why) "
I got distracted investigating the "Which came first, chicken or egg?" question from last night's science thread. |
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"I don't know when it started but I feel its probably got something to do with Fraggle Rock
You gave a good analysis earlier, but the thread closed before we had time to go into it. I agree that abuses of science have given numerous examples for the anti-scientific to point to in their defence. But i don't think that entirely explains the current trend.
It's Bush Jr init. The old "trust me I'm blatantly lying to you" speaking tactic that won us all over to his charms. After that was shown to work, statecraft strategicians everywhere suddenly realised bold faced lies work just as well these days as carefully camouflaged ones... and involve half the effort
Ah yes, Bush Jnr. I always wonder if lefties have forgotten about him when they complain about how bad trump is.
I think it really took off in 2008. I think a lot of people felt like 'well we trusted the 'experts' to run the economy and they fucked that up on a royal scale. None of them got punished for it. If that's what an expert is then maybe we shouldn't trust experts'.
I think the rot is deeper than that. There's a gut intuition in the vast majority of people that postmodernism is wrong. But none of our intellectuals have yet convincingly shown where it's wrong enough so that we can confidently move forward into a new post postmodern era... whatever the heck we're going to call that. As a result people are trying to move forward by developing a deep disregard and distrust for intellectuals "
Interesting point. Post modernism isn't really new though, you can see exactly the same arguments in Platos dialogue of Socrates vrs Thrasymachus. I think it's one of those terrible but enduring ideas that will always exist because a competitive society will always have losers who want to believe in external forces for their problems. That's why i link it to 2008, because so many people saw their life progress stunted due to the irresponsibility of 'experts'. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't know when it started but I feel its probably got something to do with Fraggle Rock
You gave a good analysis earlier, but the thread closed before we had time to go into it. I agree that abuses of science have given numerous examples for the anti-scientific to point to in their defence. But i don't think that entirely explains the current trend.
It's Bush Jr init. The old "trust me I'm blatantly lying to you" speaking tactic that won us all over to his charms. After that was shown to work, statecraft strategicians everywhere suddenly realised bold faced lies work just as well these days as carefully camouflaged ones... and involve half the effort
Ah yes, Bush Jnr. I always wonder if lefties have forgotten about him when they complain about how bad trump is.
I think it really took off in 2008. I think a lot of people felt like 'well we trusted the 'experts' to run the economy and they fucked that up on a royal scale. None of them got punished for it. If that's what an expert is then maybe we shouldn't trust experts'.
I think the rot is deeper than that. There's a gut intuition in the vast majority of people that postmodernism is wrong. But none of our intellectuals have yet convincingly shown where it's wrong enough so that we can confidently move forward into a new post postmodern era... whatever the heck we're going to call that. As a result people are trying to move forward by developing a deep disregard and distrust for intellectuals
Interesting point. Post modernism isn't really new though, you can see exactly the same arguments in Platos dialogue of Socrates vrs Thrasymachus. I think it's one of those terrible but enduring ideas that will always exist because a competitive society will always have losers who want to believe in external forces for their problems. That's why i link it to 2008, because so many people saw their life progress stunted due to the irresponsibility of 'experts'. "
I don't think 2008 resulted in a new distrust of experts. Rather it merely resurfaced the age old distrust of bankers. |
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"I don't know when it started but I feel its probably got something to do with Fraggle Rock
You gave a good analysis earlier, but the thread closed before we had time to go into it. I agree that abuses of science have given numerous examples for the anti-scientific to point to in their defence. But i don't think that entirely explains the current trend.
It's Bush Jr init. The old "trust me I'm blatantly lying to you" speaking tactic that won us all over to his charms. After that was shown to work, statecraft strategicians everywhere suddenly realised bold faced lies work just as well these days as carefully camouflaged ones... and involve half the effort
Ah yes, Bush Jnr. I always wonder if lefties have forgotten about him when they complain about how bad trump is.
I think it really took off in 2008. I think a lot of people felt like 'well we trusted the 'experts' to run the economy and they fucked that up on a royal scale. None of them got punished for it. If that's what an expert is then maybe we shouldn't trust experts'.
I think the rot is deeper than that. There's a gut intuition in the vast majority of people that postmodernism is wrong. But none of our intellectuals have yet convincingly shown where it's wrong enough so that we can confidently move forward into a new post postmodern era... whatever the heck we're going to call that. As a result people are trying to move forward by developing a deep disregard and distrust for intellectuals
Interesting point. Post modernism isn't really new though, you can see exactly the same arguments in Platos dialogue of Socrates vrs Thrasymachus. I think it's one of those terrible but enduring ideas that will always exist because a competitive society will always have losers who want to believe in external forces for their problems. That's why i link it to 2008, because so many people saw their life progress stunted due to the irresponsibility of 'experts'.
I don't think 2008 resulted in a new distrust of experts. Rather it merely resurfaced the age old distrust of bankers. "
Can we go back to Bill Clinton then and his 'I didn't lie i just used a different definition of "is" excuse'? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I agree that some people have always voted for the most charismatic person /the best talker or whether. But generally those politicians used to at least pay lip service to logic. I think the scale has changed to the point where trump can basically say " Oh fuck facts, people will vote for me because I'm more charismatic". Contrary to popular belief, he doesn't talk random nonsense. He tends to invoke things like 'social proof' over facts. So he doesn't claim that there's any evidence a given policy will work, he appeals to the social proof that someone important sounding endorsed the policy. Apparently that works better "
That's very true. Ditto the Brexit campaign which has for years spouted all kinds of nonsense that anyone with internet or a library could have researched for themselves.
"I think some of it is backlash for the self esteem movement whereby people grew up getting medals for putting on a tie properly and now they believe there is only an inch between their opinion and 40 scientific papers on a matter"
Yeah maybe. Not so sure about that one. I mean in theory, psychologically, giving people greater self-esteem should make them feel less threatened by the idea that some people know more and are more expert than themselves in whatever area. Perhaps the self-esteem movement was a laudable aim but poorly implemented, as well as being experimental, or perhaps it will take time for the effects to settle down. |
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"
I agree that some people have always voted for the most charismatic person /the best talker or whether. But generally those politicians used to at least pay lip service to logic. I think the scale has changed to the point where trump can basically say " Oh fuck facts, people will vote for me because I'm more charismatic". Contrary to popular belief, he doesn't talk random nonsense. He tends to invoke things like 'social proof' over facts. So he doesn't claim that there's any evidence a given policy will work, he appeals to the social proof that someone important sounding endorsed the policy. Apparently that works better
That's very true. Ditto the Brexit campaign which has for years spouted all kinds of nonsense that anyone with internet or a library could have researched for themselves.
I think some of it is backlash for the self esteem movement whereby people grew up getting medals for putting on a tie properly and now they believe there is only an inch between their opinion and 40 scientific papers on a matter
Yeah maybe. Not so sure about that one. I mean in theory, psychologically, giving people greater self-esteem should make them feel less threatened by the idea that some people know more and are more expert than themselves in whatever area. Perhaps the self-esteem movement was a laudable aim but poorly implemented, as well as being experimental, or perhaps it will take time for the effects to settle down."
Wrt the self esteem movement. As a general rule, it's a bad idea to only praise children for outcomes, but then people went to the other extreme of praising pure effort. There was a recent survey that showed 40% of millenials (I hate that fucking term) believe they should be promoted every 2 years irrespective of their performance. That's the fucking participation trophy mentality there. The best strategy is to praise the effort that went into producing an outcome, even small outcomes. |
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"I think my ex girlfriend must have been a post modern politician then, as 'but that is how i feel' was her seemingly trump(pun intended) card in any argument."
Then you have a choice to pander to her feelings, and believe me that's a slippery slope. Or tell her that a reasonable person wouldn't feel like that and accept the break up! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't know when it started but I feel its probably got something to do with Fraggle Rock
You gave a good analysis earlier, but the thread closed before we had time to go into it. I agree that abuses of science have given numerous examples for the anti-scientific to point to in their defence. But i don't think that entirely explains the current trend.
It's Bush Jr init. The old "trust me I'm blatantly lying to you" speaking tactic that won us all over to his charms. After that was shown to work, statecraft strategicians everywhere suddenly realised bold faced lies work just as well these days as carefully camouflaged ones... and involve half the effort
Ah yes, Bush Jnr. I always wonder if lefties have forgotten about him when they complain about how bad trump is.
I think it really took off in 2008. I think a lot of people felt like 'well we trusted the 'experts' to run the economy and they fucked that up on a royal scale. None of them got punished for it. If that's what an expert is then maybe we shouldn't trust experts'.
I think the rot is deeper than that. There's a gut intuition in the vast majority of people that postmodernism is wrong. But none of our intellectuals have yet convincingly shown where it's wrong enough so that we can confidently move forward into a new post postmodern era... whatever the heck we're going to call that. As a result people are trying to move forward by developing a deep disregard and distrust for intellectuals
Interesting point. Post modernism isn't really new though, you can see exactly the same arguments in Platos dialogue of Socrates vrs Thrasymachus. I think it's one of those terrible but enduring ideas that will always exist because a competitive society will always have losers who want to believe in external forces for their problems. That's why i link it to 2008, because so many people saw their life progress stunted due to the irresponsibility of 'experts'.
I don't think 2008 resulted in a new distrust of experts. Rather it merely resurfaced the age old distrust of bankers.
Can we go back to Bill Clinton then and his 'I didn't lie i just used a different definition of "is" excuse'?"
No. Because that was an era when lying mattered and carried serious consequences. Bush Jr and Bliar were the first to blatantly lie and get away with it. After that who cares  |
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"I don't know when it started but I feel its probably got something to do with Fraggle Rock
You gave a good analysis earlier, but the thread closed before we had time to go into it. I agree that abuses of science have given numerous examples for the anti-scientific to point to in their defence. But i don't think that entirely explains the current trend.
It's Bush Jr init. The old "trust me I'm blatantly lying to you" speaking tactic that won us all over to his charms. After that was shown to work, statecraft strategicians everywhere suddenly realised bold faced lies work just as well these days as carefully camouflaged ones... and involve half the effort
Ah yes, Bush Jnr. I always wonder if lefties have forgotten about him when they complain about how bad trump is.
I think it really took off in 2008. I think a lot of people felt like 'well we trusted the 'experts' to run the economy and they fucked that up on a royal scale. None of them got punished for it. If that's what an expert is then maybe we shouldn't trust experts'.
I think the rot is deeper than that. There's a gut intuition in the vast majority of people that postmodernism is wrong. But none of our intellectuals have yet convincingly shown where it's wrong enough so that we can confidently move forward into a new post postmodern era... whatever the heck we're going to call that. As a result people are trying to move forward by developing a deep disregard and distrust for intellectuals
Interesting point. Post modernism isn't really new though, you can see exactly the same arguments in Platos dialogue of Socrates vrs Thrasymachus. I think it's one of those terrible but enduring ideas that will always exist because a competitive society will always have losers who want to believe in external forces for their problems. That's why i link it to 2008, because so many people saw their life progress stunted due to the irresponsibility of 'experts'.
I don't think 2008 resulted in a new distrust of experts. Rather it merely resurfaced the age old distrust of bankers.
Can we go back to Bill Clinton then and his 'I didn't lie i just used a different definition of "is" excuse'?
No. Because that was an era when lying mattered and carried serious consequences. Bush Jr and Bliar were the first to blatantly lie and get away with it. After that who cares "
Interesting. I do like hearing your perspective on things. Well we've traced it back to 2003 so far... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well we've traced it back to 2003 so far...
The precise date is September 11th 2002 at 1:46 pm UK time
Have you seen the film 'idiocracy', is that the path we're on? "
Made with real electrolytes! I'm thinking more "fall of the roman empire" |
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"Well we've traced it back to 2003 so far...
The precise date is September 11th 2002 at 1:46 pm UK time
Have you seen the film 'idiocracy', is that the path we're on?
Made with real electrolytes! I'm thinking more "fall of the roman empire" "
It's about time courts realised that they can detect guilt based on the way people talk |
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"I get the feeling your the man of the couple OP, is that a fact ?
What gives you a male vibe ?"
Over use of expletives?
Toilet humour on other threads?
Racial stereotypes about Asian women being submissive in nature? (That's bullshit by the way) |
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"I get the feeling your the man of the couple OP, is that a fact ?
What gives you a male vibe ?
The excessive over use of Dolph Lundgren quotes "
Maybe the fact that our user name is a wrestling reference... |
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