FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > The grenfell tower.
The grenfell tower.
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Of course it was saving money. If it was about safety it would have had a sprinkler system installed at least.
Not to mention fire repellent cladding.
I do hopes will roll over it |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’m sad the fire service were being the fall guys not the corrupt politicians and councillors of a very rich borough.. "
The good thing about that though, is I doubt the public will blame the fire service and see it for it is |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uzzy NavelWoman
over a year ago
so near and yet so far.... |
"I’m sad the fire service were being the fall guys not the corrupt politicians and councillors of a very rich borough..
The good thing about that though, is I doubt the public will blame the fire service and see it for it is"
Exactly!! I certainly would trust them over any politician and councillors |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"I’m sad the fire service were being the fall guys not the corrupt politicians and councillors of a very rich borough..
The good thing about that though, is I doubt the public will blame the fire service and see it for it is"
They won't but it still won't mean those responsible will be held accountable which in itself is criminal!! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’m sad the fire service were being the fall guys not the corrupt politicians and councillors of a very rich borough..
The good thing about that though, is I doubt the public will blame the fire service and see it for it is"
The fire service on the night dud what they felt what was best in extreme circumstances.
But weren't the fire service also responsible for fire inspections of the building and its safety prior to the incident? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I’m sad the fire service were being the fall guys not the corrupt politicians and councillors of a very rich borough..
The good thing about that though, is I doubt the public will blame the fire service and see it for it is
The fire service on the night dud what they felt what was best in extreme circumstances.
But weren't the fire service also responsible for fire inspections of the building and its safety prior to the incident? "
No. It has been de regulated for years. Councils are responsible for this. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I’m sad the fire service were being the fall guys not the corrupt politicians and councillors of a very rich borough..
The good thing about that though, is I doubt the public will blame the fire service and see it for it is
The fire service on the night dud what they felt what was best in extreme circumstances.
But weren't the fire service also responsible for fire inspections of the building and its safety prior to the incident?
No. It has been de regulated for years. Councils are responsible for this. "
This..
The cuts started to the service in many aspects and areas in 05 and successive governments have continued with them, even ignoring the findings of the Lakanal House fire just a few years ago..
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"A 23 storey block of flats with over 300 people living in it should have more than one staircase. "
.
Not really!.
I'm presuming it was built by people who knew what they were doing and what's safe or not, there isn't really one particular thing that was the fault, it was more a whole load of small things and bad luck that lead to this fire but it's important to remember that this type of fire is very rare and in the grand scheme of things really isn't the massive concern that it's been given the media as.
The report states that in all probability less than 25 people would have died if they just hadn't had the stay in place policy! , Still tragic I'll admit but not really a massive toll considering how rare these fires are!.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I’m sad the fire service were being the fall guys not the corrupt politicians and councillors of a very rich borough..
The good thing about that though, is I doubt the public will blame the fire service and see it for it is
The fire service on the night dud what they felt what was best in extreme circumstances.
But weren't the fire service also responsible for fire inspections of the building and its safety prior to the incident? "
That has been taken away from them, they will do it if enough people complain.
It is not the responsibility of the landlord/managing agent, I am sure there are a few documents being updated or amended after the fire. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I’m sad the fire service were being the fall guys not the corrupt politicians and councillors of a very rich borough..
The good thing about that though, is I doubt the public will blame the fire service and see it for it is
The fire service on the night dud what they felt what was best in extreme circumstances.
But weren't the fire service also responsible for fire inspections of the building and its safety prior to the incident?
No. It has been de regulated for years. Councils are responsible for this.
This..
The cuts started to the service in many aspects and areas in 05 and successive governments have continued with them, even ignoring the findings of the Lakanal House fire just a few years ago..
"
Funny that, it is the same time the Regulatory Reform order was brought out. Hmmmm |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"A 23 storey block of flats with over 300 people living in it should have more than one staircase. .
Not really!.
I'm presuming it was built by people who knew what they were doing and what's safe or not, there isn't really one particular thing that was the fault, it was more a whole load of small things and bad luck that lead to this fire but it's important to remember that this type of fire is very rare and in the grand scheme of things really isn't the massive concern that it's been given the media as.
The report states that in all probability less than 25 people would have died if they just hadn't had the stay in place policy! , Still tragic I'll admit but not really a massive toll considering how rare these fires are!.
"
"Really isn't the massive concern that it's been given in the media as"??!!!
Really?! Countless people lost their lives due to the negligence of people in power who chose to ignore warnings from the residents about the likelihood of issues in the block, and it's not a massive concern?! 
No matter how "rare" that type of fire might have been, 72 people died as a result of it (regardless of what should or shouldn't have happened regarding the stay in place policy) - of course it's a bloody massive concern and has rightly been thrown under the microscope by the media and all concerned not only out of respect to those that lost their lives but in order to prevent it's like happening again if possible!! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *isty286Couple
over a year ago
Dorset |
You just know there is going to be a scapegoat, some poor lower level civil servant, if the government dept who authorised fitting the cheapest unsuitable cladding, can't pin it on the fire brigade, there will be a fall guy who will be thrown on his own sword, so the fat cats can keep on lining thier own pockets regardless of the lives it costs.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Have a look at who was responsible at making the decisions back at the time the refurbishments were being planned including who was against the installation of a sprinkler system on the basis of the disturbance it would cause. Also look at the positions that the current MP for the area, who was previously very vocal about decisions made, held in the years when the refurbishments were being planned... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It is sad what happened there, but who feel it was about saving money over safety?"
And yet on May 4th this year the same political party wins control of the same council. If voting could cause change the political elite would outlaw it.
The public gets what the public votes for, more of the same year after year, election after election. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I’m not pre judging the enquiry but the situation may well not be as simple as some have portrayed. The enquiry could throw up some surprises as to who made what decisions and that it isn’t as clear cut as simply blaming the council. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It is sad what happened there, but who feel it was about saving money over safety?"
I reckon some of the costs cut were filtered into a pocket somewhere |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"A 23 storey block of flats with over 300 people living in it should have more than one staircase. .
Not really!.
I'm presuming it was built by people who knew what they were doing and what's safe or not, there isn't really one particular thing that was the fault, it was more a whole load of small things and bad luck that lead to this fire but it's important to remember that this type of fire is very rare and in the grand scheme of things really isn't the massive concern that it's been given the media as.
The report states that in all probability less than 25 people would have died if they just hadn't had the stay in place policy! , Still tragic I'll admit but not really a massive toll considering how rare these fires are!.
"
Oh yeah, we wouldn't have minded 25 deaths. That's fine.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It is sad what happened there, but who feel it was about saving money over safety?
I reckon some of the costs cut were filtered into a pocket somewhere"
Saving money will always be a big thing, that's why so many big companies sub contract. It also means when things go wrong, they can wash their hands of any blame like has happened in this incident. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The stay in place policy had always been sound until that point. The staircase was designed to be fire and smoke resistant as were the individual flats. There had been no experience of a fire in this country spreading externally rather than internally. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but wasn’t available to the fire brigade in that night. Once things had gone so tragically wrong then they had no experience or knowledge to draw on. They were stuck between a rock and a hard place, had they given the instruction to evacuate and there had been a crush in the staircase then they would have been getting criticised equally.
There’s plenty of us struggle to decide what we want for tea when we’re asked, they had to make life or death decisions without the necessary knowledge or experience because it hadn’t happened before in the UK. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"A 23 storey block of flats with over 300 people living in it should have more than one staircase. .
Not really!.
I'm presuming it was built by people who knew what they were doing and what's safe or not, there isn't really one particular thing that was the fault, it was more a whole load of small things and bad luck that lead to this fire but it's important to remember that this type of fire is very rare and in the grand scheme of things really isn't the massive concern that it's been given the media as.
The report states that in all probability less than 25 people would have died if they just hadn't had the stay in place policy! , Still tragic I'll admit but not really a massive toll considering how rare these fires are!.
Oh yeah, we wouldn't have minded 25 deaths. That's fine. "
.
For context it's 3 days of male suicides!.
I know all deaths are tragic but really it's very rare.
It's the equivalent of saying some crazy Muslim has killed 9 people in a rare terrorist attack and we should spend millions and millions preventing the next one?.
There's things we need to concentrate our resources on and there's things that are just, well shit happens, but unlikely won't happen twice or three times in a year and even if it did were still only taking less than a hundred deaths which is ten days of male suicide or twelve days of car accidents.
Perspective is sometimes hard to come by on tragic news |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"A 23 storey block of flats with over 300 people living in it should have more than one staircase. .
Not really!.
I'm presuming it was built by people who knew what they were doing and what's safe or not, there isn't really one particular thing that was the fault, it was more a whole load of small things and bad luck that lead to this fire but it's important to remember that this type of fire is very rare and in the grand scheme of things really isn't the massive concern that it's been given the media as.
The report states that in all probability less than 25 people would have died if they just hadn't had the stay in place policy! , Still tragic I'll admit but not really a massive toll considering how rare these fires are!.
Oh yeah, we wouldn't have minded 25 deaths. That's fine. .
For context it's 3 days of male suicides!.
I know all deaths are tragic but really it's very rare.
It's the equivalent of saying some crazy Muslim has killed 9 people in a rare terrorist attack and we should spend millions and millions preventing the next one?.
There's things we need to concentrate our resources on and there's things that are just, well shit happens, but unlikely won't happen twice or three times in a year and even if it did were still only taking less than a hundred deaths which is ten days of male suicide or twelve days of car accidents.
Perspective is sometimes hard to come by on tragic news"
Insensitive much!!
Doesn't matter whether it's one event or hundreds, one death or thousands - it's still tragic and what's more was preventable if not for the inactions of those who should be held accountable!!
No-one is detracting from the tragedy of suicide (male or female), or those killed in car accidents both of which have resources assigned to them - but frankly to suggest something like Grenfell or any other tragedy of its kind should be written off as "well shit happens" is disgusting at best, and showing a complete lack of empathy and humanity to boot!! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"A Tory run council would not be willing to spend money on social housing. They are paying some of the financial cost but not the personal cost the people paid. "
Those sort of people look after the people they meet in their golf club, people like them. They don't meet council tenants, migrants etc and couldn't care less what happens to them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"A 23 storey block of flats with over 300 people living in it should have more than one staircase. "
The design principles of the building were sound.
A fire in a flat would not spread to other flats for approx 30 minutes.
Reasonably, it was assumed the local fire brigade would attend within those 30 mins.
Hence, the standard advice to stay put in the event of a fire.
Less risk staying put then people in a panic running down stairs.
They changed the design of the building by wrapping it in petrol but did not change the fire risk assessment. I hope the inquiry gets to the bottom of that.
My suspicion is the cladding was done for the benefit of wealthy people overlooking the property, and not the residents. Institutional snobbery meant no money was spent looking after their interests. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"A 23 storey block of flats with over 300 people living in it should have more than one staircase.
The design principles of the building were sound.
A fire in a flat would not spread to other flats for approx 30 minutes.
Reasonably, it was assumed the local fire brigade would attend within those 30 mins.
Hence, the standard advice to stay put in the event of a fire.
Less risk staying put then people in a panic running down stairs.
They changed the design of the building by wrapping it in petrol but did not change the fire risk assessment. I hope the inquiry gets to the bottom of that.
My suspicion is the cladding was done for the benefit of wealthy people overlooking the property, and not the residents. Institutional snobbery meant no money was spent looking after their interests."
In a nutshell, well done.
Absolutely right.
This enquiry is nothing to do with the facts, the jury in the pub already know those. It's the foundation to a portion the blame so the legal cases can follow to get the compensation.
Well what could be better than blame a public institution forbidden to defend itself then help yourself to their budget in 2020? Simples! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
