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Are a teacher allowed to hug their pupils?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I just had an interesting discussion about it of who is allowed to initiate it first? Can a teacher do it, for example saying well done on a test with a hug, without getting reported or can a pupil randomly hug the teacher first, whats your view? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Nothing wrong with a hug as long as its appropriate.
If my child had won a race or aced a test and the teacher hugged them in a congratulatory manner, I'd be fine with that.
But if the teachers hugging just for hugging sake I'd be more sceptical |
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I was a teacher in a SN Primary... I got & gave a lot of hugs.
But working in a main stream school, holding a child's hand was the most allowed
It's a sad era we live in when the most innocent of actions is frowned upon |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No, trust me on this, the training we get on Safeguarding means we won’t even help them take off a heavy rucksack for fear of an accusation of inappropriate touching. Don’t put yourself in any situation where you are open to a world of pain. |
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"No, trust me on this, the training we get on Safeguarding means we won’t even help them take off a heavy rucksack for fear of an accusation of inappropriate touching. Don’t put yourself in any situation where you are open to a world of pain."
Sad but true. |
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In reality, female primary school teachers do it all the time and everyone's happy. If men do it then they are presumed to be paedophiles. Hence there are very few male primary school teachers.
Kids need hugs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No, trust me on this, the training we get on Safeguarding means we won’t even help them take off a heavy rucksack for fear of an accusation of inappropriate touching. Don’t put yourself in any situation where you are open to a world of pain."
That’s a pretty sad state of affairs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No, trust me on this, the training we get on Safeguarding means we won’t even help them take off a heavy rucksack for fear of an accusation of inappropriate touching. Don’t put yourself in any situation where you are open to a world of pain."
It’s true. I was actually at a training course two week ago about managing behaviours in the early years. We were taught how to hand cuddle! I’ll always give the kids a hug if they ask for one. Or if they’re upset I’ll ask if they need a hug. If they say no, they say no. I just always ensure I’m where another member of staff can see me. It’s sad  |
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"No, trust me on this, the training we get on Safeguarding means we won’t even help them take off a heavy rucksack for fear of an accusation of inappropriate touching. Don’t put yourself in any situation where you are open to a world of pain."
Better not wear anything black in case you get accused of witchcraft |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No, trust me on this, the training we get on Safeguarding means we won’t even help them take off a heavy rucksack for fear of an accusation of inappropriate touching. Don’t put yourself in any situation where you are open to a world of pain.
Better not wear anything black in case you get accused of witchcraft "
Oh, the kids already think I’m a witch  I go along with it  |
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"Better to be safe than sorry.
Better for who? "
The teacher accused of some misconduct who ends up being sacked, banned from teaching or with some criminal penalty.
Remember the song in The Italian Job film - The Self Preservation Society.
It has never been so apt. |
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"Better to be safe than sorry.
Better for who?
The teacher accused of some misconduct who ends up being sacked, banned from teaching or with some criminal penalty.
Remember the song in The Italian Job film - The Self Preservation Society.
It has never been so apt."
Agreed. At what point do we consider what is best for the children? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was a teacher in a SN Primary... I got & gave a lot of hugs.
But working in a main stream school, holding a child's hand was the most allowed
It's a sad era we live in when the most innocent of actions is frowned upon "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I work in Early Years Education. Hugs are given freely from children to staff and from staff to children as appropriate. When children arrive in the morning many run to staff to hug them. Parents like it because it shows their children are happy and secure there. |
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You do need to consider some of the parents teachers are dealing with. Threats of violence for telling a kid off aren't uncommon.
I think as usual though we've thrown the baby out with the bathwater |
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"In reality, female primary school teachers do it all the time and everyone's happy. If men do it then they are presumed to be paedophiles. Hence there are very few male primary school teachers.
Kids need hugs. "
And yet many respond more favourably to a male teacher  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was a teacher in a SN Primary...
... It's a sad era we live in when the most innocent of actions is frowned upon "
Sums it up. Ex headteacher- I've watched schools move from open, touchy-feely places to rather more closed, suspicious environments. If a child was hurt, I'd need a chaperone to help; or a female to take over. Kid missed a bus? I'd often take them home. Latterly, there were only certain children I would take, because I knew the parents over 15 years. But I'd still phone and have them explicitly tell me it was ok for me to take Mary home by myself. Otherwise, it's come and get them; or 2 staff members go. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In reality, female primary school teachers do it all the time and everyone's happy. If men do it then they are presumed to be paedophiles. Hence there are very few male primary school teachers.
Kids need hugs.
And yet many respond more favourably to a male teacher "
At my school we have one Male teacher and the rest are all female. I asked all of the kids who they wanted last year, and all but one said the Male teacher. The one who didn’t want him? His niece |
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"In reality, female primary school teachers do it all the time and everyone's happy. If men do it then they are presumed to be paedophiles. Hence there are very few male primary school teachers.
Kids need hugs.
And yet many respond more favourably to a male teacher
At my school we have one Male teacher and the rest are all female. I asked all of the kids who they wanted last year, and all but one said the Male teacher. The one who didn’t want him? His niece "
Cos she knows he's a bastard  |
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When my daughter was in primary school she had to sit out a PE lesson because the plait in her hair had come untied and school rules said long hair had to be tied back. When I asked why the teacher or TA couldn't have put it back in I was told they aren't allowed to - physical contact.
After a long look at the Head I walked out without saying another word  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In reality, female primary school teachers do it all the time and everyone's happy. If men do it then they are presumed to be paedophiles. Hence there are very few male primary school teachers.
Kids need hugs.
And yet many respond more favourably to a male teacher "
Agreed. At my children’s Primary School there is only one male teacher but the children respond well to him. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm a teacher and children need to be able to form positive attachments. This includes offering reassurance and affection.. especially when working with children in a children's home like I do with autistic and complex needs.. |
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I am ancient I know, but if any teacher, male or female had hugged me when I was at school, I would have thought it weird. And that was even before I knew anything about child abuse etc.
They're your teacher, not your mum or dad. What on earth would they be doing hugging you.
Maybe that's me being brought up in a northern working class culture when there wasn't much physical affection all round and that things have moved on... |
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"I am ancient I know, but if any teacher, male or female had hugged me when I was at school, I would have thought it weird. And that was even before I knew anything about child abuse etc.
They're your teacher, not your mum or dad. What on earth would they be doing hugging you.
Maybe that's me being brought up in a northern working class culture when there wasn't much physical affection all round and that things have moved on... "
Same here and I'm from the south. Things have changed I suppose but none of us looked to teachers for emotional support. If we fell we were sent to the school secretary who put a plaster on you. If we did well we got a gold star.
If we were bad we got told off.
I suppose you could say that it's a good idea that children know that there are boundaries around which adults can touch you and which ones can't . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Some students, especially secondary female students like to hug. I think they know who they can and can't get a hug from.
There were some students I wanted to hold tightly and tell them that everything will be ok. |
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"I am ancient I know, but if any teacher, male or female had hugged me when I was at school, I would have thought it weird. And that was even before I knew anything about child abuse etc.
They're your teacher, not your mum or dad. What on earth would they be doing hugging you.
Maybe that's me being brought up in a northern working class culture when there wasn't much physical affection all round and that things have moved on...
Same here and I'm from the south. Things have changed I suppose but none of us looked to teachers for emotional support. If we fell we were sent to the school secretary who put a plaster on you. If we did well we got a gold star.
If we were bad we got told off.
I suppose you could say that it's a good idea that children know that there are boundaries around which adults can touch you and which ones can't . "
Indeed. I think there was a bit of class going on as well in my case. Teachers and doctors were literally the only middle class people I knew when I was at primary school. They were very definitely not "us" but "them". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I remember one 13 yr old girl would run at me, from behind, and bear hug me. I had to ask her to not do it because it might put my back out.
Boys liked a pat on the shoulder now and then. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Hugs...??? Times have changed...
I come from an era when teachers used to whip us with sticks, or beat us about the head with heavy books, and all we ever know was utter fear....
I understand why a teacher would have to be wary of hugging today - but it's so sad that it has to be seen as wrong...
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am ancient I know, but if any teacher, male or female had hugged me when I was at school, I would have thought it weird. And that was even before I knew anything about child abuse etc.
They're your teacher, not your mum or dad. What on earth would they be doing hugging you.
Maybe that's me being brought up in a northern working class culture when there wasn't much physical affection all round and that things have moved on...
Same here and I'm from the south. Things have changed I suppose but none of us looked to teachers for emotional support. If we fell we were sent to the school secretary who put a plaster on you. If we did well we got a gold star.
If we were bad we got told off.
I suppose you could say that it's a good idea that children know that there are boundaries around which adults can touch you and which ones can't .
Indeed. I think there was a bit of class going on as well in my case. Teachers and doctors were literally the only middle class people I knew when I was at primary school. They were very definitely not "us" but "them". "
There are still a lot of middle class or stuffy teachers, but some are more down to Earth and open to a hug or fist bump.
I used to fist bump the boys when they did well. |
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"I am ancient I know, but if any teacher, male or female had hugged me when I was at school, I would have thought it weird. And that was even before I knew anything about child abuse etc.
They're your teacher, not your mum or dad. What on earth would they be doing hugging you.
Maybe that's me being brought up in a northern working class culture when there wasn't much physical affection all round and that things have moved on...
Same here and I'm from the south. Things have changed I suppose but none of us looked to teachers for emotional support. If we fell we were sent to the school secretary who put a plaster on you. If we did well we got a gold star.
If we were bad we got told off.
I suppose you could say that it's a good idea that children know that there are boundaries around which adults can touch you and which ones can't .
Indeed. I think there was a bit of class going on as well in my case. Teachers and doctors were literally the only middle class people I knew when I was at primary school. They were very definitely not "us" but "them".
There are still a lot of middle class or stuffy teachers, but some are more down to Earth and open to a hug or fist bump.
I used to fist bump the boys when they did well. "
It wasn't so much teachers being stuffy, as being from another social world. Hugging teachers would have been like hugging a doctor or bank manager. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In reality, female primary school teachers do it all the time and everyone's happy. If men do it then they are presumed to be paedophiles. Hence there are very few male primary school teachers.
Kids need hugs.
And yet many respond more favourably to a male teacher
At my school we have one Male teacher and the rest are all female. I asked all of the kids who they wanted last year, and all but one said the Male teacher. The one who didn’t want him? His niece
Cos she knows he's a bastard "
A hot bastard |
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"No, trust me on this, the training we get on Safeguarding means we won’t even help them take off a heavy rucksack for fear of an accusation of inappropriate touching. Don’t put yourself in any situation where you are open to a world of pain."
Very similar to the training and advice given in the secondary school I work in. Don't do anything which might be misconstrued, don't put yourself in a situation where you could be accused of anything inappropriate. Don't touch a child unless their safety depends on it. |
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"I am ancient I know, but if any teacher, male or female had hugged me when I was at school, I would have thought it weird. And that was even before I knew anything about child abuse etc.
They're your teacher, not your mum or dad. What on earth would they be doing hugging you.
Maybe that's me being brought up in a northern working class culture when there wasn't much physical affection all round and that things have moved on...
Same here and I'm from the south. Things have changed I suppose but none of us looked to teachers for emotional support. If we fell we were sent to the school secretary who put a plaster on you. If we did well we got a gold star.
If we were bad we got told off.
I suppose you could say that it's a good idea that children know that there are boundaries around which adults can touch you and which ones can't .
Indeed. I think there was a bit of class going on as well in my case. Teachers and doctors were literally the only middle class people I knew when I was at primary school. They were very definitely not "us" but "them". "
Yep, same here. Although my aunt was a teacher we very much saw teachers, doctors and other authority figures as from a different world. It would just have never entered our head to even touch them. We didn't do much in the way of hugging anybody in the sixties. Friends didn't hug each other when they met like they do now. I blame the EU for all this had hugging malarkey and confidently expect it all to stop next March so we can return to the proper stiff upper lipped tradition.   |
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I would've much preferred a hug than having the old Dunlop green flash, or being bawled at, or having my head banged off a wooden desk, or having my hair pulled so hard I actually had a lump on my head, or being punched in the stomach, or having my hair tied to a chair then the aforementioned chair being kicked out from beneath me.....all of which I experienced or witnessed at my old secondary school, kids today don't know how lucky they are, the majority of our teachers were fuckin sadists with a real hatred of kids |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We get told to “avoid physical contact unless absolutely necessary” I.e. to stop a kid falling off a cliff etc.
Do I agree? No.
When a kid is going through a tough time and bursts into tears in your presence it’s because they feel safe and comfortable. A simple hug is a reassuring way for a kid to feel more at ease.
I don’t do it at work as others have said it leaves you wide open.
It’s a massive shame. 99.9% of teachers only have good intentions. |
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But hugging is inappropriate for teachers. They are the child's teacher, not their parent, family member of friend. There needs to be boundaries and a clear distinction.
If a teacher cannot sort out an upset child, without resorting to physical contact with the child, then that teacher needs to be retrained.
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"I am ancient I know, but if any teacher, male or female had hugged me when I was at school, I would have thought it weird. And that was even before I knew anything about child abuse etc.
They're your teacher, not your mum or dad. What on earth would they be doing hugging you.
Maybe that's me being brought up in a northern working class culture when there wasn't much physical affection all round and that things have moved on...
Same here and I'm from the south. Things have changed I suppose but none of us looked to teachers for emotional support. If we fell we were sent to the school secretary who put a plaster on you. If we did well we got a gold star.
If we were bad we got told off.
I suppose you could say that it's a good idea that children know that there are boundaries around which adults can touch you and which ones can't .
Indeed. I think there was a bit of class going on as well in my case. Teachers and doctors were literally the only middle class people I knew when I was at primary school. They were very definitely not "us" but "them".
Yep, same here. Although my aunt was a teacher we very much saw teachers, doctors and other authority figures as from a different world. It would just have never entered our head to even touch them. We didn't do much in the way of hugging anybody in the sixties. Friends didn't hug each other when they met like they do now. I blame the EU for all this had hugging malarkey and confidently expect it all to stop next March so we can return to the proper stiff upper lipped tradition. "
Indeed. Hugging people you don't know that well wasn't a thing in the seventies either.
Do kids these days really want to be hugged by teachers? Once you are over, say, the age of seven isn't it just monumentally embarrassing? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Our daughter was going through a tough time, she's a cuddler and went to a particular teacher to talk things through. I had a phone call later that day from the teacher who was apologising for hugging her! The teacher was worried as hugs aren't allowed! My daughter needed a hug and I'm so glad there are people out there who recognise that whatever the over the top rules say!
Peach x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But hugging is inappropriate for teachers. They are the child's teacher, not their parent, family member of friend. There needs to be boundaries and a clear distinction.
If a teacher cannot sort out an upset child, without resorting to physical contact with the child, then that teacher needs to be retrained.
"
I’m guessing you’ve never had a child come to you after lesson to tell you there relative has passed away and they don’t know what they will do whilst being in floods of tears? |
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"But hugging is inappropriate for teachers. They are the child's teacher, not their parent, family member of friend. There needs to be boundaries and a clear distinction.
If a teacher cannot sort out an upset child, without resorting to physical contact with the child, then that teacher needs to be retrained.
I’m guessing you’ve never had a child come to you after lesson to tell you there relative has passed away and they don’t know what they will do whilst being in floods of tears?"
I'm guessing he's never had kids  |
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"In reality, female primary school teachers do it all the time and everyone's happy. If men do it then they are presumed to be paedophiles. Hence there are very few male primary school teachers.
Kids need hugs.
And yet many respond more favourably to a male teacher "
I think boys with abscent fathers are much more likely to. My favourite primary school teacher was a (the) guy. It might have helped that he taught the final year, which was awesome. I had many excellent female teachers too, primary school was good really. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"the vast majority would agree a hug in the right moment can help BUT in this day and age its best not too unfortunately
Not best for the kids. "
no. not best for the teacher really... |
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"the vast majority would agree a hug in the right moment can help BUT in this day and age its best not too unfortunately
Not best for the kids.
no. not best for the teacher really..."
So there's a needle in a haystack, so we burn down the barn. |
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"the vast majority would agree a hug in the right moment can help BUT in this day and age its best not too unfortunately
Not best for the kids.
no. not best for the teacher really...
So there's a needle in a haystack, so we burn down the barn. "
Do you think most kids want to be hugged by teachers? I certainly wouldn't and I am pretty sure my kids wouldn't have wanted it either. |
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"the vast majority would agree a hug in the right moment can help BUT in this day and age its best not too unfortunately
Not best for the kids.
no. not best for the teacher really...
So there's a needle in a haystack, so we burn down the barn.
Do you think most kids want to be hugged by teachers? I certainly wouldn't and I am pretty sure my kids wouldn't have wanted it either. "
Maybe I'm a soft southerner, but yes at primary school I shed a few teachers and appreciated being comforted. It's undistiputable that kids need physical contact with other people in order to develop properly. |
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The unfortunate reality is that the best thing to do is give none at all, especially if you are male. There definitely isn't a singularity of standards here, and due to the actions of a small minority this has been made non Tetra firma for everyone else.
The sad thing is, is that as human beings we rely and respond to contact, to feel safe and reassured, or for congratulatory recognition. It's young people who are missing out as they are not getting the emotion support the need to build the resilience required for adulthood. Particularly true for those who have deprived upbringings were parents are neglectful, and sometimes they need a hug from a responsible adult.
Sad times.
But don't do it, it's not worth the grief. |
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"As an ex teaching assistant. Female staff are but male staff are advised not too . It's a mine field and best to keep to the rules "
The overwhelmingly majority of paedophiles are men. But the overwhelming majority of men aren't paedophiles. Until 'the general public' can wrap their head around that then the proportion of male primary school teachers is likely to stay at 15%. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As an ex teaching assistant. Female staff are but male staff are advised not too . It's a mine field and best to keep to the rules
The overwhelmingly majority of paedophiles are men. But the overwhelming majority of men aren't paedophiles. Until 'the general public' can wrap their head around that then the proportion of male primary school teachers is likely to stay at 15%. "
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"the vast majority would agree a hug in the right moment can help BUT in this day and age its best not too unfortunately
Not best for the kids.
no. not best for the teacher really...
So there's a needle in a haystack, so we burn down the barn.
Do you think most kids want to be hugged by teachers? I certainly wouldn't and I am pretty sure my kids wouldn't have wanted it either.
Maybe I'm a soft southerner, but yes at primary school I shed a few teachers and appreciated being comforted. It's undistiputable that kids need physical contact with other people in order to develop properly. "
They do, but not from everyone and only from people they feel comfortable with. I certainly did not feel comfortable enough with any teachers to want physical contact with them. I had relatives for that. Ditto my kids (who are also soft southerners).
My anecdotal belief is that most kids view teachers like Teach in the Bash Street Kids rather than Robin Williams in the Dead Poets Society. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think most teachers avoid it in case it gets misconstrued as something more sinister.
Can't blame them as you risk your job doing something as simple as that.
Although it never bothered me as I hate being hugged (usually) anyway and feel very awkward being put in that position of being hugged by someone I don't want to hug back.
~Mia |
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"the vast majority would agree a hug in the right moment can help BUT in this day and age its best not too unfortunately
Not best for the kids.
no. not best for the teacher really...
So there's a needle in a haystack, so we burn down the barn.
Do you think most kids want to be hugged by teachers? I certainly wouldn't and I am pretty sure my kids wouldn't have wanted it either.
Maybe I'm a soft southerner, but yes at primary school I shed a few teachers and appreciated being comforted. It's undistiputable that kids need physical contact with other people in order to develop properly.
They do, but not from everyone and only from people they feel comfortable with. I certainly did not feel comfortable enough with any teachers to want physical contact with them. I had relatives for that. Ditto my kids (who are also soft southerners).
My anecdotal belief is that most kids view teachers like Teach in the Bash Street Kids rather than Robin Williams in the Dead Poets Society. "
Both those references when straight over my head. I think it's different up north. |
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"the vast majority would agree a hug in the right moment can help BUT in this day and age its best not too unfortunately
Not best for the kids.
no. not best for the teacher really...
So there's a needle in a haystack, so we burn down the barn.
Do you think most kids want to be hugged by teachers? I certainly wouldn't and I am pretty sure my kids wouldn't have wanted it either.
Maybe I'm a soft southerner, but yes at primary school I shed a few teachers and appreciated being comforted. It's undistiputable that kids need physical contact with other people in order to develop properly.
They do, but not from everyone and only from people they feel comfortable with. I certainly did not feel comfortable enough with any teachers to want physical contact with them. I had relatives for that. Ditto my kids (who are also soft southerners).
My anecdotal belief is that most kids view teachers like Teach in the Bash Street Kids rather than Robin Williams in the Dead Poets Society.
Both those references when straight over my head. I think it's different up north. "
Like I say, both my kids went to school in the south... |
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"As an ex teaching assistant. Female staff are but male staff are advised not too . It's a mine field and best to keep to the rules "
My daughter was hugged by a teacher (lady) who she used to go to when she was having a hard time at school and head of pastoral care saw this and told them both it wasn't appropriate.
I'm in two minds really,my daughter was told if she needed someone to speak to then it should be the pastoral lady that deals with that side of things,which I agree as my daughter got quite attached to this other young teacher as they were closer in age.
I wouldn't find it appropriate for her to hug and seek comfort in a male teacher,so why would I a woman. Boundaries need to be the same surely. Don't know. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I wouldn't be hugging no children!!
Not in this day in age anyway
What's wrong with a high five and a welldone
Surely they don't need a cuddle
That's for there mum n dad ?
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"I wouldn't be hugging no children!!
Not in this day in age anyway
What's wrong with a high five and a welldone
Surely they don't need a cuddle
That's for there mum n dad ?
"
So a kid falls over and scrapes their knee, blood all over it. They look up and see you stood there and in your best not at voice you say "high five" |
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"As an ex teaching assistant. Female staff are but male staff are advised not too . It's a mine field and best to keep to the rules
My daughter was hugged by a teacher (lady) who she used to go to when she was having a hard time at school and head of pastoral care saw this and told them both it wasn't appropriate.
I'm in two minds really,my daughter was told if she needed someone to speak to then it should be the pastoral lady that deals with that side of things,which I agree as my daughter got quite attached to this other young teacher as they were closer in age.
I wouldn't find it appropriate for her to hug and seek comfort in a male teacher,so why would I a woman. Boundaries need to be the same surely. Don't know."
It's really a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. I've known cases of children becoming too attached to a teacher because they've misread their friendly intentions. It then becomes very difficult for everyone.
However if a kid hurts itself most people would instinctively, hug the child or at least offer physical comfort of some sort. |
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"I wouldn't be hugging no children!!
Not in this day in age anyway
What's wrong with a high five and a welldone
Surely they don't need a cuddle
That's for there mum n dad ?
So a kid falls over and scrapes their knee, blood all over it. They look up and see you stood there and in your best not at voice you say "high five""
The op was about doing well on a test. |
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"I wouldn't be hugging no children!!
Not in this day in age anyway
What's wrong with a high five and a welldone
Surely they don't need a cuddle
That's for there mum n dad ?
So a kid falls over and scrapes their knee, blood all over it. They look up and see you stood there and in your best not at voice you say "high five"
The op was about doing well on a test."
Oh
Hell no. What kind of stupid question is that. Kids don't need a hug for a fucking test result. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I do some voluntary work with children, and whilst we aren't allowed to be alone with a child we aren't expected to brush off a child's hugs, but we wouldn't be expected to initiate them either. Some children take a shine to adults and when they are young, it's just their way of saying they are comfortable with you and like you, and when they are upset it's a bit harsh to push them away.
From a selfish point of view, it makes the time I spend with children entirely worth it when they run to hug you because they are pleased to see you, hold your hand because it makes them feel safe. Btw these are quite young children not teenagers.
Ginger |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"the vast majority would agree a hug in the right moment can help BUT in this day and age its best not too unfortunately
Not best for the kids.
no. not best for the teacher really...
So there's a needle in a haystack, so we burn down the barn.
Do you think most kids want to be hugged by teachers? I certainly wouldn't and I am pretty sure my kids wouldn't have wanted it either.
Maybe I'm a soft southerner, but yes at primary school I shed a few teachers and appreciated being comforted. It's undistiputable that kids need physical contact with other people in order to develop properly. "
WOW. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I do some voluntary work with children, and whilst we aren't allowed to be alone with a child we aren't expected to brush off a child's hugs, but we wouldn't be expected to initiate them either. Some children take a shine to adults and when they are young, it's just their way of saying they are comfortable with you and like you, and when they are upset it's a bit harsh to push them away.
From a selfish point of view, it makes the time I spend with children entirely worth it when they run to hug you because they are pleased to see you, hold your hand because it makes them feel safe. Btw these are quite young children not teenagers.
Ginger "
harsh but a necessity. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I wouldn't be hugging no children!!
Not in this day in age anyway
What's wrong with a high five and a welldone
Surely they don't need a cuddle
That's for there mum n dad ?
"
|
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By *tonMessCouple
over a year ago
Slough Windsor ish |
I work in Early Years Foundation Stage... We get and give hugs all day. The kids are 4 and 5 and often need a hug. We always say "Do you need a hug?" And if they say no or show reluctance we don't do it. |
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Sad and pathetic. A hug in appropriate circumstances is still fine (teacher 25 years ) dont be pathetic listening to the PC brigade with odd ideas who are straight from education them selves and wet behind the ears. Stand up for yourselves and do what's appropriate |
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By *athnBobCouple
over a year ago
sandwell |
"
There were some students I wanted to hold tightly and tell them that everything will be ok. "
That directly contravenes your child protection training. Never tell a child "everything will be OK".
On to the OP
Speaking as a retired secondary school teacher (11-19) the answer is a categorical NO. It is never appropriate to hug a student. It happens and in 99.99999% of cases it is well meant BUT there is the risk of an inappropriate relationship developing from it.
I have seen a teacher fired and removed from the GTC (ending his career) just for messaging pupils on facebook and being their friend rather than teacher. Likewise I have seen two teaching assistants fired for pretty much the same reasons.
Listen to the lyrics of "don't stand so close to me" by the Police |
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"
There were some students I wanted to hold tightly and tell them that everything will be ok.
That directly contravenes your child protection training. Never tell a child "everything will be OK".
On to the OP
Speaking as a retired secondary school teacher (11-19) the answer is a categorical NO. It is never appropriate to hug a student. It happens and in 99.99999% of cases it is well meant BUT there is the risk of an inappropriate relationship developing from it.
I have seen a teacher fired and removed from the GTC (ending his career) just for messaging pupils on facebook and being their friend rather than teacher. Likewise I have seen two teaching assistants fired for pretty much the same reasons.
Listen to the lyrics of "don't stand so close to me" by the Police "
Does that go for primary school as well? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I just had an interesting discussion about it of who is allowed to initiate it first? Can a teacher do it, for example saying well done on a test with a hug, without getting reported or can a pupil randomly hug the teacher first, whats your view?"
yes but fingering is out  |
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By *athnBobCouple
over a year ago
sandwell |
"
There were some students I wanted to hold tightly and tell them that everything will be ok.
That directly contravenes your child protection training. Never tell a child "everything will be OK".
On to the OP
Speaking as a retired secondary school teacher (11-19) the answer is a categorical NO. It is never appropriate to hug a student. It happens and in 99.99999% of cases it is well meant BUT there is the risk of an inappropriate relationship developing from it.
I have seen a teacher fired and removed from the GTC (ending his career) just for messaging pupils on facebook and being their friend rather than teacher. Likewise I have seen two teaching assistants fired for pretty much the same reasons.
Listen to the lyrics of "don't stand so close to me" by the Police
Does that go for primary school as well?"
Honestly, I have no idea. As daft as it may seem, they are different worlds. |
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It's potentially worse for unsupported kids who have no emotional support anywhere, if they miss out on great teachers or occasional hug at school. But it's likely better to be a strict enforcer of physical boundaries for school reputation and prevention of misapplied allegations - possibly for the head's sake and quieter life.
Tragic |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am ancient I know, but if any teacher, male or female had hugged me when I was at school, I would have thought it weird. And that was even before I knew anything about child abuse etc.
They're your teacher, not your mum or dad. What on earth would they be doing hugging you.
Maybe that's me being brought up in a northern working class culture when there wasn't much physical affection all round and that things have moved on...
Same here and I'm from the south. Things have changed I suppose but none of us looked to teachers for emotional support. If we fell we were sent to the school secretary who put a plaster on you. If we did well we got a gold star.
If we were bad we got told off.
I suppose you could say that it's a good idea that children know that there are boundaries around which adults can touch you and which ones can't .
Indeed. I think there was a bit of class going on as well in my case. Teachers and doctors were literally the only middle class people I knew when I was at primary school. They were very definitely not "us" but "them".
Yep, same here. Although my aunt was a teacher we very much saw teachers, doctors and other authority figures as from a different world. It would just have never entered our head to even touch them. We didn't do much in the way of hugging anybody in the sixties. Friends didn't hug each other when they met like they do now. I blame the EU for all this had hugging malarkey and confidently expect it all to stop next March so we can return to the proper stiff upper lipped tradition.
Indeed. Hugging people you don't know that well wasn't a thing in the seventies either.
Do kids these days really want to be hugged by teachers? Once you are over, say, the age of seven isn't it just monumentally embarrassing? "
No. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I work in Early Years Foundation Stage... We get and give hugs all day. The kids are 4 and 5 and often need a hug. We always say "Do you need a hug?" And if they say no or show reluctance we don't do it."
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
There were some students I wanted to hold tightly and tell them that everything will be ok.
That directly contravenes your child protection training. Never tell a child "everything will be OK".
On to the OP
Speaking as a retired secondary school teacher (11-19) the answer is a categorical NO. It is never appropriate to hug a student. It happens and in 99.99999% of cases it is well meant BUT there is the risk of an inappropriate relationship developing from it.
I have seen a teacher fired and removed from the GTC (ending his career) just for messaging pupils on facebook and being their friend rather than teacher. Likewise I have seen two teaching assistants fired for pretty much the same reasons.
Listen to the lyrics of "don't stand so close to me" by the Police "
brilliant. well said. |
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By *uxom redCouple
over a year ago
Shrewsbury |
"No, trust me on this, the training we get on Safeguarding means we won’t even help them take off a heavy rucksack for fear of an accusation of inappropriate touching. Don’t put yourself in any situation where you are open to a world of pain."
One of the reasons I stopped teaching was I was unable to comfort a crying five year old.
They sat on my knee whilst crying and I had a telling off by the head saying she should take it further.
|
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"No, trust me on this, the training we get on Safeguarding means we won’t even help them take off a heavy rucksack for fear of an accusation of inappropriate touching. Don’t put yourself in any situation where you are open to a world of pain.
One of the reasons I stopped teaching was I was unable to comfort a crying five year old.
They sat on my knee whilst crying and I had a telling off by the head saying she should take it further.
"
Talk about baby and bath water |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes as a primary school teacher and I'm allowed to give and recieve an appropriate 'sideways hug.' Some children don't receive any type of positive touch from an adult and it's a really sad time if they can't get it from a trusted adult that they care about because of policies.
As a mother I'd be more than happy for my child to be comforted or congratulated in this way also.
School staff have all the checks, safeguarding ans positive behaviour managament training in place to ensure that it's done in the safest way.
Dee |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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In my daughters swimming lesson (I also work for the company on a casual basis) but I know all the life guards and in particular the lad who teaches my daughter and other kids aged 8-10 in her group. I've been sat in the stands watching the lesson and he's actually grabbed my daughters legs to put them in the correct position for butterfly or some other technique and then she's done it perfectly, I can hear other parents say why won't he grab my kids legs and do the same, in a kind of not jealous way but wanting him to do the same with their child but the thing is he can't just put his hands on a kid. He only does it to my daughter cos he knows me and knows my daughter and knows that I wouldn't accuse him of doing anything inappropriate.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes as a primary school teacher and I'm allowed to give and recieve an appropriate 'sideways hug.' Some children don't receive any type of positive touch from an adult and it's a really sad time if they can't get it from a trusted adult that they care about because of policies.
As a mother I'd be more than happy for my child to be comforted or congratulated in this way also.
School staff have all the checks, safeguarding ans positive behaviour managament training in place to ensure that it's done in the safest way.
Dee "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I just had an interesting discussion about it of who is allowed to initiate it first? Can a teacher do it, for example saying well done on a test with a hug, without getting reported or can a pupil randomly hug the teacher first, whats your view?yes but fingering is out "
What sort of comment is that? Words can’t describe how stupid it is. |
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By *wingfellowMan
over a year ago
my own little sanctuary |
I think the most important factor is the way the teachers conducts themselves. For example a female teacher is alot safer to give hugs of approval or consolation. However, a male teacher is far more limited. With that being said if I were a teacher as a man I would pat the lads on the back to congratulate them and the girls I wouldn’t physically engage with at all. If they were visually distressed or something I’d crouch down and talk to them so they are aware they have my attention to speak then have the pastoral officer or whoever is best qualified to handle it take over. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the most important factor is the way the teachers conducts themselves. For example a female teacher is alot safer to give hugs of approval or consolation. However, a male teacher is far more limited. With that being said if I were a teacher as a man I would pat the lads on the back to congratulate them and the girls I wouldn’t physically engage with at all. If they were visually distressed or something I’d crouch down and talk to them so they are aware they have my attention to speak then have the pastoral officer or whoever is best qualified to handle it take over. "
However, that child has come to you to tell you! Not somebody else. |
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By *athnBobCouple
over a year ago
sandwell |
"I think the most.....snip..... then have the pastoral officer or whoever is best qualified to handle it take over.
However, that child has come to you to tell you! Not somebody else."
When it comes to child protection, confidentiality simply doesn't exist, so, depending on what you are told, it gets passed to pastoral care or not. If serious it would get passed to the child protection team as a matter of urgency.
Child protection policy (which should be followed by all members of staff in a school (and every member of staff should get one hours training per year), this includes dinner ladies, caretakers etc.) states that the adult should:
Never make promises (It will be OK)
Make sure that the child understands that the adult can not 'keep a secret'
Not ask questions
record the conversation (on paper asap)if a child protection issue is identified
report as appropriate.
Handing it on to pastoral is frequently the best, and safest, option as the frequently have additional training and experience |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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In my job, I advise early years settings. Was told by one of them that after they’d employed a male nursery worker (qualified and dbs’d) some parents had refused to let him change their baby’s nappy or take their toddler to the toilet. He was great at his job but just because he was male........ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the most important factor is the way the teachers conducts themselves. For example a female teacher is alot safer to give hugs of approval or consolation. However, a male teacher is far more limited. With that being said if I were a teacher as a man I would pat the lads on the back to congratulate them and the girls I wouldn’t physically engage with at all. If they were visually distressed or something I’d crouch down and talk to them so they are aware they have my attention to speak then have the pastoral officer or whoever is best qualified to handle it take over.
However, that child has come to you to tell you! Not somebody else."
You have a duty to pass on concerns to the child protection/safeguarding officer in the school. Every school has one. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the most important factor is the way the teachers conducts themselves. For example a female teacher is alot safer to give hugs of approval or consolation. However, a male teacher is far more limited. With that being said if I were a teacher as a man I would pat the lads on the back to congratulate them and the girls I wouldn’t physically engage with at all. If they were visually distressed or something I’d crouch down and talk to them so they are aware they have my attention to speak then have the pastoral officer or whoever is best qualified to handle it take over.
However, that child has come to you to tell you! Not somebody else.
You have a duty to pass on concerns to the child protection/safeguarding officer in the school. Every school has one. "
Fully aware of that (teacher too) simply replying to the comment about just chinning them off to pastoral care. |
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"As an ex teaching assistant. Female staff are but male staff are advised not too . It's a mine field and best to keep to the rules
The overwhelmingly majority of paedophiles are men. But the overwhelming majority of men aren't paedophiles. Until 'the general public' can wrap their head around that then the proportion of male primary school teachers is likely to stay at 15%. "
My kids were very lucky they have had 4 male teachers in their primary school. This is definitely not the norm and it’s the children that are missing out. Male teachers in primary schools have a lot to offer. As you say, until people’s perception change the lack of male teachers at Key stage 2 and below won’t improve |
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By *hechapMan
over a year ago
Derry |
Any teacher giving out hugs must be living in cloud cuckcoo land as they are leaving them selves wide open for been accused of child abuse.
May be innocent but in a court room in the future it could be misconstrued as more than a hug..
|
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"As an ex teaching assistant. Female staff are but male staff are advised not too . It's a mine field and best to keep to the rules
The overwhelmingly majority of paedophiles are men. But the overwhelming majority of men aren't paedophiles. Until 'the general public' can wrap their head around that then the proportion of male primary school teachers is likely to stay at 15%.
My kids were very lucky they have had 4 male teachers in their primary school. This is definitely not the norm and it’s the children that are missing out. Male teachers in primary schools have a lot to offer. As you say, until people’s perception change the lack of male teachers at Key stage 2 and below won’t improve "
You can see the attitudes on this thread though. Most people aren't interested in the truth or what's best for children. It's about avoiding the potential for trouble. |
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By *wingfellowMan
over a year ago
my own little sanctuary |
"I think the most important factor is the way the teachers conducts themselves. For example a female teacher is alot safer to give hugs of approval or consolation. However, a male teacher is far more limited. With that being said if I were a teacher as a man I would pat the lads on the back to congratulate them and the girls I wouldn’t physically engage with at all. If they were visually distressed or something I’d crouch down and talk to them so they are aware they have my attention to speak then have the pastoral officer or whoever is best qualified to handle it take over.
However, that child has come to you to tell you! Not somebody else.
You have a duty to pass on concerns to the child protection/safeguarding officer in the school. Every school has one.
Fully aware of that (teacher too) simply replying to the comment about just chinning them off to pastoral care."
Although I understand where you are coming from I just feel like as well as safeguarding children you have to safeguard yourself. I’m not saying just palm them off to someone else, my point was that someone adequately trained for the situation would need to be present. I’m always open to helping people when they need it and hearing their voice but there’s nothing wrong with admitting when you need a bit of support yourself to adequately deal with something. |
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By *ficouldMan
over a year ago
a quandary, could you change my mind? |
"I was a teacher in a SN Primary... I got & gave a lot of hugs.
But working in a main stream school, holding a child's hand was the most allowed
It's a sad era we live in when the most innocent of actions is frowned upon "
It's more than sad. But the teachers also have to protect themselves from any possible problems.
A hug at my age is great, for a child not to get one if required, sad sad sad. |
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"Any teacher giving out hugs must be living in cloud cuckcoo land as they are leaving them selves wide open for been accused of child abuse.
May be innocent but in a court room in the future it could be misconstrued as more than a hug..
"
Absolute garbage. Are you frightened of the dark , and your own shadow? Life is a risk but if you do the right thing the only fear is fear itself.
Think Daily Mail readers get a little too cautious |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Any teacher giving out hugs must be living in cloud cuckcoo land as they are leaving them selves wide open for been accused of child abuse.
May be innocent but in a court room in the future it could be misconstrued as more than a hug..
Absolute garbage. Are you frightened of the dark , and your own shadow? Life is a risk but if you do the right thing the only fear is fear itself.
Think Daily Mail readers get a little too cautious "
I agree...... If you're genuine you have nothing to fear, don't let a very small minority of weirdos who are probably all here rule |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This is clear for me.
It's all to do with consent.
If the hug is initiated by the child then of course it should be reciprocated. Hugs should never be adult initiated.
Great believer in children being an advocate of their own bodies, by allowing them to make the rules on what is acceptable for them, of they feel uncomfortable with contact then they should be able to say abd have that view respected, this builds up resilience and sense of self. They will grow up having a clear sense of what is acceptable and what is not
Their body, their boundary.
Consent, that's what it's all about. Simples. |
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By *athnBobCouple
over a year ago
sandwell |
"This is clear for me.
It's all to do with consent.
If the hug is initiated by the child then of course it should be reciprocated. Hugs should never be adult initiated.
Great believer in children being an advocate of their own bodies, by allowing them to make the rules on what is acceptable for them, of they feel uncomfortable with contact then they should be able to say abd have that view respected, this builds up resilience and sense of self. They will grow up having a clear sense of what is acceptable and what is not
Their body, their boundary.
Consent, that's what it's all about. Simples."
Paedophiles charter. You base your opinion on all adults and children being 'normal' and an ideal world.
Sting from the Police was a teacher and wrote "Don't stand so close to me" based on his experiences. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"In reality, female primary school teachers do it all the time and everyone's happy. If men do it then they are presumed to be paedophiles. Hence there are very few male primary school teachers.
Kids need hugs. "
I’d go with that too, female teachers tend to be more touchy feely whereas the male ones in my kids school are just as nice but more standoffish. I havnt got an issue with any teachers hugging my primary school aged daughter under the right circumstance. |
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"This is clear for me.
It's all to do with consent.
If the hug is initiated by the child then of course it should be reciprocated. Hugs should never be adult initiated.
Great believer in children being an advocate of their own bodies, by allowing them to make the rules on what is acceptable for them, of they feel uncomfortable with contact then they should be able to say abd have that view respected, this builds up resilience and sense of self. They will grow up having a clear sense of what is acceptable and what is not
Their body, their boundary.
Consent, that's what it's all about. Simples.
Paedophiles charter. You base your opinion on all adults and children being 'normal' and an ideal world.
Sting from the Police was a teacher and wrote "Don't stand so close to me" based on his experiences."
Do you realise how low the probability of a primary school teacher being a paedophile is?
The people who are thinking of an ideal world are the people who think there are no consequences to these over the top 'safe guarding' practices. |
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We used to have a male head in our primary & the children adored him - he was always being hugged. He was a believer in comforting a child if needed. The world is a big mess right now & I hate it
B x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Would you want your daughters male teachers touching your daughter in anyway at all? I wouldn’t especially if something sinister comes out about them at a later date,she might get confused and if other boys men do it she might think it’s acceptable when it’s not.Food for thought on a fine line..... |
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"Would you want your daughters male teachers touching your daughter in anyway at all? I wouldn’t especially if something sinister comes out about them at a later date,she might get confused and if other boys men do it she might think it’s acceptable when it’s not.Food for thought on a fine line....."
As opposed to what? Telling her to start with the presumption that adults are paedophiles and can't be trusted. |
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"This is clear for me.
It's all to do with consent.
If the hug is initiated by the child then of course it should be reciprocated. Hugs should never be adult initiated.
Great believer in children being an advocate of their own bodies, by allowing them to make the rules on what is acceptable for them, of they feel uncomfortable with contact then they should be able to say abd have that view respected, this builds up resilience and sense of self. They will grow up having a clear sense of what is acceptable and what is not
Their body, their boundary.
Consent, that's what it's all about. Simples.
Paedophiles charter. You base your opinion on all adults and children being 'normal' and an ideal world.
Sting from the Police was a teacher and wrote "Don't stand so close to me" based on his experiences.
Do you realise how low the probability of a primary school teacher being a paedophile is?
The people who are thinking of an ideal world are the people who think there are no consequences to these over the top 'safe guarding' practices. "
I suspect there are no children in the history of childhood who were damaged because their teacher didn't give them a hug
It was a very small window when it was thought a good thing for teachers to hug children. As I say in my childhood up until the early eighties it didn't happen because teachers were thought to be authority figures and hugging them would have been like hugging your bank manager.
I reckon the paedophile panic started around 2000ish, so that leaves us about ten or so years when teachers hugging kids was seen as a good thing.
Coincidentally when you were a child. |
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"This is clear for me.
It's all to do with consent.
If the hug is initiated by the child then of course it should be reciprocated. Hugs should never be adult initiated.
Great believer in children being an advocate of their own bodies, by allowing them to make the rules on what is acceptable for them, of they feel uncomfortable with contact then they should be able to say abd have that view respected, this builds up resilience and sense of self. They will grow up having a clear sense of what is acceptable and what is not
Their body, their boundary.
Consent, that's what it's all about. Simples.
Paedophiles charter. You base your opinion on all adults and children being 'normal' and an ideal world.
Sting from the Police was a teacher and wrote "Don't stand so close to me" based on his experiences.
Do you realise how low the probability of a primary school teacher being a paedophile is?
The people who are thinking of an ideal world are the people who think there are no consequences to these over the top 'safe guarding' practices.
I suspect there are no children in the history of childhood who were damaged because their teacher didn't give them a hug
It was a very small window when it was thought a good thing for teachers to hug children. As I say in my childhood up until the early eighties it didn't happen because teachers were thought to be authority figures and hugging them would have been like hugging your bank manager.
I reckon the paedophile panic started around 2000ish, so that leaves us about ten or so years when teachers hugging kids was seen as a good thing.
Coincidentally when you were a child. "
Yes we've been over your northern childhood where the only lesson was chimney sweeping and your parents had scrub you with sand paper to get to soot off.
I left primarily school in 1998. I wouldn't advocate secondary school teachers hugging kids or even the last years of primary school. So that takes us back to about 1996.
Maybe you'd like to bring back the cane so teachers can be proper authority figures again, since they aren't very effective without it. |
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"No, trust me on this, the training we get on Safeguarding means we won’t even help them take off a heavy rucksack for fear of an accusation of inappropriate touching. Don’t put yourself in any situation where you are open to a world of pain."
Sadly this is the era we live in. Something completely innocent can be so incriminating. |
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"This is clear for me.
It's all to do with consent.
If the hug is initiated by the child then of course it should be reciprocated. Hugs should never be adult initiated.
Great believer in children being an advocate of their own bodies, by allowing them to make the rules on what is acceptable for them, of they feel uncomfortable with contact then they should be able to say abd have that view respected, this builds up resilience and sense of self. They will grow up having a clear sense of what is acceptable and what is not
Their body, their boundary.
Consent, that's what it's all about. Simples.
Paedophiles charter. You base your opinion on all adults and children being 'normal' and an ideal world.
Sting from the Police was a teacher and wrote "Don't stand so close to me" based on his experiences.
Do you realise how low the probability of a primary school teacher being a paedophile is?
The people who are thinking of an ideal world are the people who think there are no consequences to these over the top 'safe guarding' practices.
I suspect there are no children in the history of childhood who were damaged because their teacher didn't give them a hug
It was a very small window when it was thought a good thing for teachers to hug children. As I say in my childhood up until the early eighties it didn't happen because teachers were thought to be authority figures and hugging them would have been like hugging your bank manager.
I reckon the paedophile panic started around 2000ish, so that leaves us about ten or so years when teachers hugging kids was seen as a good thing.
Coincidentally when you were a child.
Yes we've been over your northern childhood where the only lesson was chimney sweeping and your parents had scrub you with sand paper to get to soot off.
I left primarily school in 1998. I wouldn't advocate secondary school teachers hugging kids or even the last years of primary school. So that takes us back to about 1996.
Maybe you'd like to bring back the cane so teachers can be proper authority figures again, since they aren't very effective without it. "
I am making a point that this idea that kids need hugs from teachers is a comparatively new idea and would have been thought very strange by anyone before 1980ish.
I actually asked Katies eleven year old daughter if teachers hugged her. She said. "no" in a tone she would use as if I had asked her if she wanted double sprouts due dinner.
I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. Most kids are indifferent or actively hostile to hugs from teachers. If they are getting plenty of affection at home they are not going to miss pedagogic hugs. If they aren't getting affection at home then the problem is not the lack of hugs from teacher.
|
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"This is clear for me.
It's all to do with consent.
If the hug is initiated by the child then of course it should be reciprocated. Hugs should never be adult initiated.
Great believer in children being an advocate of their own bodies, by allowing them to make the rules on what is acceptable for them, of they feel uncomfortable with contact then they should be able to say abd have that view respected, this builds up resilience and sense of self. They will grow up having a clear sense of what is acceptable and what is not
Their body, their boundary.
Consent, that's what it's all about. Simples.
Paedophiles charter. You base your opinion on all adults and children being 'normal' and an ideal world.
Sting from the Police was a teacher and wrote "Don't stand so close to me" based on his experiences.
Do you realise how low the probability of a primary school teacher being a paedophile is?
The people who are thinking of an ideal world are the people who think there are no consequences to these over the top 'safe guarding' practices.
I suspect there are no children in the history of childhood who were damaged because their teacher didn't give them a hug
It was a very small window when it was thought a good thing for teachers to hug children. As I say in my childhood up until the early eighties it didn't happen because teachers were thought to be authority figures and hugging them would have been like hugging your bank manager.
I reckon the paedophile panic started around 2000ish, so that leaves us about ten or so years when teachers hugging kids was seen as a good thing.
Coincidentally when you were a child.
Yes we've been over your northern childhood where the only lesson was chimney sweeping and your parents had scrub you with sand paper to get to soot off.
I left primarily school in 1998. I wouldn't advocate secondary school teachers hugging kids or even the last years of primary school. So that takes us back to about 1996.
Maybe you'd like to bring back the cane so teachers can be proper authority figures again, since they aren't very effective without it.
I am making a point that this idea that kids need hugs from teachers is a comparatively new idea and would have been thought very strange by anyone before 1980ish.
I actually asked Katies eleven year old daughter if teachers hugged her. She said. "no" in a tone she would use as if I had asked her if she wanted double sprouts due dinner.
I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. Most kids are indifferent or actively hostile to hugs from teachers. If they are getting plenty of affection at home they are not going to miss pedagogic hugs. If they aren't getting affection at home then the problem is not the lack of hugs from teacher.
"
So are you trying to say that the education system had better outcomes before the 1980's? |
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"This is clear for me.
It's all to do with consent.
If the hug is initiated by the child then of course it should be reciprocated. Hugs should never be adult initiated.
Great believer in children being an advocate of their own bodies, by allowing them to make the rules on what is acceptable for them, of they feel uncomfortable with contact then they should be able to say abd have that view respected, this builds up resilience and sense of self. They will grow up having a clear sense of what is acceptable and what is not
Their body, their boundary.
Consent, that's what it's all about. Simples.
Paedophiles charter. You base your opinion on all adults and children being 'normal' and an ideal world.
Sting from the Police was a teacher and wrote "Don't stand so close to me" based on his experiences.
Do you realise how low the probability of a primary school teacher being a paedophile is?
The people who are thinking of an ideal world are the people who think there are no consequences to these over the top 'safe guarding' practices.
I suspect there are no children in the history of childhood who were damaged because their teacher didn't give them a hug
It was a very small window when it was thought a good thing for teachers to hug children. As I say in my childhood up until the early eighties it didn't happen because teachers were thought to be authority figures and hugging them would have been like hugging your bank manager.
I reckon the paedophile panic started around 2000ish, so that leaves us about ten or so years when teachers hugging kids was seen as a good thing.
Coincidentally when you were a child.
Yes we've been over your northern childhood where the only lesson was chimney sweeping and your parents had scrub you with sand paper to get to soot off.
I left primarily school in 1998. I wouldn't advocate secondary school teachers hugging kids or even the last years of primary school. So that takes us back to about 1996.
Maybe you'd like to bring back the cane so teachers can be proper authority figures again, since they aren't very effective without it.
I am making a point that this idea that kids need hugs from teachers is a comparatively new idea and would have been thought very strange by anyone before 1980ish.
I actually asked Katies eleven year old daughter if teachers hugged her. She said. "no" in a tone she would use as if I had asked her if she wanted double sprouts due dinner.
I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. Most kids are indifferent or actively hostile to hugs from teachers. If they are getting plenty of affection at home they are not going to miss pedagogic hugs. If they aren't getting affection at home then the problem is not the lack of hugs from teacher.
So are you trying to say that the education system had better outcomes before the 1980's? "
No. You need to re read that logic for beginners book again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Would you want your daughters male teachers touching your daughter in anyway at all? I wouldn’t especially if something sinister comes out about them at a later date,she might get confused and if other boys men do it she might think it’s acceptable when it’s not.Food for thought on a fine line.....
As opposed to what? Telling her to start with the presumption that adults are paedophiles and can't be trusted. "
The harsh factual reality that across the country that grooming is going on and on a massive scale more like. |
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"Would you want your daughters male teachers touching your daughter in anyway at all? I wouldn’t especially if something sinister comes out about them at a later date,she might get confused and if other boys men do it she might think it’s acceptable when it’s not.Food for thought on a fine line.....
As opposed to what? Telling her to start with the presumption that adults are paedophiles and can't be trusted. The harsh factual reality that across the country that grooming is going on and on a massive scale more like."
The great reality is that it's on a tiny scale, assuming one understands percentages. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
They aren't allowed to, no.
Personally I think it's ridiculous. If my child was upset for example, I would want to think a teacher was allowed to hug them to comfort them.
The world has gone mad. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Would you want your daughters male teachers touching your daughter in anyway at all? I wouldn’t especially if something sinister comes out about them at a later date,she might get confused and if other boys men do it she might think it’s acceptable when it’s not.Food for thought on a fine line.....
As opposed to what? Telling her to start with the presumption that adults are paedophiles and can't be trusted. The harsh factual reality that across the country that grooming is going on and on a massive scale more like.
The great reality is that it's on a tiny scale, assuming one understands percentages. "
Well where have you been hiding the last 10 years! Well depends on what paper one reads on a Sunday morning after walking ones dogs,a lot of the issues are not covered by mainstream media and it’s all the “fake news” that is more common.Dig a little deeper and one will find that the actual percentages are really quite high,court case convictions are a good start and google is your friend if you use it correctly,avoid sky news and other similar sources. |
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"Would you want your daughters male teachers touching your daughter in anyway at all? I wouldn’t especially if something sinister comes out about them at a later date,she might get confused and if other boys men do it she might think it’s acceptable when it’s not.Food for thought on a fine line.....
As opposed to what? Telling her to start with the presumption that adults are paedophiles and can't be trusted. The harsh factual reality that across the country that grooming is going on and on a massive scale more like.
The great reality is that it's on a tiny scale, assuming one understands percentages. Well where have you been hiding the last 10 years! Well depends on what paper one reads on a Sunday morning after walking ones dogs,a lot of the issues are not covered by mainstream media and it’s all the “fake news” that is more common.Dig a little deeper and one will find that the actual percentages are really quite high,court case convictions are a good start and google is your friend if you use it correctly,avoid sky news and other similar sources."
So what percentage of men are paedophiles? |
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In a word no .. hands to yourself. If you allow physical contact with a child you put yourself in a position where you could be accused of inappropriate behaviour. If a child goes to hug you just explain we don't do that here we give high 5s or hand shakes. It's hard if you've a distressed child that needs comforting but the rules are there for a reason |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I remember in first school when i was a kid i had a crush on a teacher who was leaving il have been about 7 at the end of her last day we all lined up to say goodby each kid recieved a hug and a kiss on the cheek after my go i went to the back of the line for another go i knew then id be a cheeky chancer of a guy.
Its a shame those days are gone id love a goodby kiss from a few of my kids teachers now
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Would you want your daughters male teachers touching your daughter in anyway at all? I wouldn’t especially if something sinister comes out about them at a later date,she might get confused and if other boys men do it she might think it’s acceptable when it’s not.Food for thought on a fine line.....
As opposed to what? Telling her to start with the presumption that adults are paedophiles and can't be trusted. The harsh factual reality that across the country that grooming is going on and on a massive scale more like.
The great reality is that it's on a tiny scale, assuming one understands percentages. Well where have you been hiding the last 10 years! Well depends on what paper one reads on a Sunday morning after walking ones dogs,a lot of the issues are not covered by mainstream media and it’s all the “fake news” that is more common.Dig a little deeper and one will find that the actual percentages are really quite high,court case convictions are a good start and google is your friend if you use it correctly,avoid sky news and other similar sources.
So what percentage of men are paedophiles? "
How many men walk the earth?? |
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"Would you want your daughters male teachers touching your daughter in anyway at all? I wouldn’t especially if something sinister comes out about them at a later date,she might get confused and if other boys men do it she might think it’s acceptable when it’s not.Food for thought on a fine line.....
As opposed to what? Telling her to start with the presumption that adults are paedophiles and can't be trusted. The harsh factual reality that across the country that grooming is going on and on a massive scale more like.
The great reality is that it's on a tiny scale, assuming one understands percentages. Well where have you been hiding the last 10 years! Well depends on what paper one reads on a Sunday morning after walking ones dogs,a lot of the issues are not covered by mainstream media and it’s all the “fake news” that is more common.Dig a little deeper and one will find that the actual percentages are really quite high,court case convictions are a good start and google is your friend if you use it correctly,avoid sky news and other similar sources.
So what percentage of men are paedophiles? How many men walk the earth?? "
Let's go with 3.5 billion. So how many of them are paedophiles? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think it all depends on the situation...
If it’s primary school a lot of younger kids usually need some affection especially when they’re upset...
But if a teacher were to try and hug someone in high school I think there’d be different reactions...
But me personally don’t see anything wrong as long as it’s not in a weird way! |
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By *athnBobCouple
over a year ago
sandwell |
"So are you trying to say that the education system had better outcomes before the 1980's?
Without a doubt.
Could you expand upon that? what's the evidence? "
Personal observation and experience.
Pre 1990s school was about education. Mid 1990s it turned into being all about results.
Now there is no time to 'talk around a subject' giving a broader understanding, it is all about the student getting 'points' for the school. Until very recently, school leaders didn't give two hoots about students getting A's and B's, it was all about getting as many students through the C barrier as possible. Once a child was past the C they were effectively ignored and not pushed.
However, that is changing now with the reintroduction of 'Value Added' measurements and grading points depending on the importance of a subject (but that has a downside of narrowing the syllabus)
As regards how the syllabus was manipulated by schools and the exam boards I could write an essay. In a nutshell the content of courses was narrowed down to the bare minimum that the exam boards could push past the government. Schools adopted the easiest syllabus they could, other exam boards lost out so they made their syllabus more 'streamlined' to compete and the cycle goes on.
Coursework. Introduced to give pupils who fail exams a chance. Here is the news .... schools who are facing a falling ofsted rating because their results are falling inevitably cheat and pressure is applied to teachers to 'perform in line with the school'
You will not find any 'evidence' as they are not comparable |
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"So are you trying to say that the education system had better outcomes before the 1980's?
Without a doubt.
Could you expand upon that? what's the evidence?
Personal observation and experience.
Pre 1990s school was about education. Mid 1990s it turned into being all about results.
Now there is no time to 'talk around a subject' giving a broader understanding, it is all about the student getting 'points' for the school. Until very recently, school leaders didn't give two hoots about students getting A's and B's, it was all about getting as many students through the C barrier as possible. Once a child was past the C they were effectively ignored and not pushed.
However, that is changing now with the reintroduction of 'Value Added' measurements and grading points depending on the importance of a subject (but that has a downside of narrowing the syllabus)
As regards how the syllabus was manipulated by schools and the exam boards I could write an essay. In a nutshell the content of courses was narrowed down to the bare minimum that the exam boards could push past the government. Schools adopted the easiest syllabus they could, other exam boards lost out so they made their syllabus more 'streamlined' to compete and the cycle goes on.
Coursework. Introduced to give pupils who fail exams a chance. Here is the news .... schools who are facing a falling ofsted rating because their results are falling inevitably cheat and pressure is applied to teachers to 'perform in line with the school'
You will not find any 'evidence' as they are not comparable "
Thanks, I certainly recognise many of the things you said being prevelant in state schools. Private schools, much less so.
I do think value added is a better measure as i was at a state school which was all about getting people over the magic c grade, therefore I was pretty much ignored during my time there. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think a lot of people on this thread have definitely been on the internet way too long
Rules are constantly changing and yes I think the protocol right now is no physical contact at all...
but where would you draw the line?
Because if you’re basically saying that you wouldn’t trust a teacher of a different sex hugging your child, you’d better start home schooling them then as if they like the teacher they’ll hug them when they leave, hug them when they’re sad and possibly if they exceed their expectations...
I know for one thing my teachers didn’t think I’d do as well I as did when I was in primary school and they all hugged me when I got top marks. Wasn’t like they were grabbing my arse or cock at the same time. |
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"Private schools are the same, they are still graded by ofsted...they are just better at it because they have a lower pupil to teacher ratio."
They really aren't the same. I very much doubt you've been in both systems as a pupil. |
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By *athnBobCouple
over a year ago
sandwell |
"Private schools are the same, they are still graded by ofsted...they are just better at it because they have a lower pupil to teacher ratio.
They really aren't the same. I very much doubt you've been in both systems as a pupil. "
Both systems as an adult. Probably gives me a better perspective. |
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"Private schools are the same, they are still graded by ofsted...they are just better at it because they have a lower pupil to teacher ratio.
They really aren't the same. I very much doubt you've been in both systems as a pupil.
Both systems as an adult. Probably gives me a better perspective."
I disagree, you wouldn't possibly see some of the major benefits as an outsider. |
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By *athnBobCouple
over a year ago
sandwell |
"Private schools are the same, they are still graded by ofsted...they are just better at it because they have a lower pupil to teacher ratio.
They really aren't the same. I very much doubt you've been in both systems as a pupil.
Both systems as an adult. Probably gives me a better perspective.
I disagree, you wouldn't possibly see some of the major benefits as an outsider. "
And as a pupil you would have no idea of what goes on in the staff room and meetings.
I much preferred teaching in state schools. The kids were nicer. |
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"Private schools are the same, they are still graded by ofsted...they are just better at it because they have a lower pupil to teacher ratio.
They really aren't the same. I very much doubt you've been in both systems as a pupil.
Both systems as an adult. Probably gives me a better perspective.
I disagree, you wouldn't possibly see some of the major benefits as an outsider.
And as a pupil you would have no idea of what goes on in the staff room and meetings.
I much preferred teaching in state schools. The kids were nicer."
Pretty sure you're just projecting on to the kids. The life outcomes for private school kids are an order of magnitude better than state school kids, hence why parents pay ~£30,000 to go there after they've already paid taxes for a state school place they won't use.
Unless you want to claim that nice kids finish last. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think the most.....snip..... then have the pastoral officer or whoever is best qualified to handle it take over.
However, that child has come to you to tell you! Not somebody else.
When it comes to child protection, confidentiality simply doesn't exist, so, depending on what you are told, it gets passed to pastoral care or not. If serious it would get passed to the child protection team as a matter of urgency.
Child protection policy (which should be followed by all members of staff in a school (and every member of staff should get one hours training per year), this includes dinner ladies, caretakers etc.) states that the adult should:
Never make promises (It will be OK)
Make sure that the child understands that the adult can not 'keep a secret'
Not ask questions
record the conversation (on paper asap)if a child protection issue is identified
report as appropriate.
Handing it on to pastoral is frequently the best, and safest, option as the frequently have additional training and experience"
You've had good training, nice one! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Do people think that staff that work in Early Years Education should or shouldn't hug the children in their care when appropriate. These are children from approx 6 weeks to 5 years. Staff do extensive Safeguarding Training among lots of other training. |
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"Would you want your daughters male teachers touching your daughter in anyway at all? I wouldn’t especially if something sinister comes out about them at a later date,she might get confused and if other boys men do it she might think it’s acceptable when it’s not.Food for thought on a fine line.....
As opposed to what? Telling her to start with the presumption that adults are paedophiles and can't be trusted. The harsh factual reality that across the country that grooming is going on and on a massive scale more like.
The great reality is that it's on a tiny scale, assuming one understands percentages. Well where have you been hiding the last 10 years! Well depends on what paper one reads on a Sunday morning after walking ones dogs,a lot of the issues are not covered by mainstream media and it’s all the “fake news” that is more common.Dig a little deeper and one will find that the actual percentages are really quite high,court case convictions are a good start and google is your friend if you use it correctly,avoid sky news and other similar sources.
So what percentage of men are paedophiles? How many men walk the earth??
Let's go with 3.5 billion. So how many of them are paedophiles? "
Still waiting... |
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By *FFB69Woman
over a year ago
Torfaen/Gwent |
I'd love to see anyone try and stop my kid hugging their teachers.
Most brace themselves ready as they're a bear hugger.
Different kids need different levels of affection.
I've also worked in a children's home and we were never told we couldn't hug the kids if they needed it. The opposite in fact. And these were neglected, abused and troubled kids.
If a teacher isn't comfortable with it then of course they shouldn't and should find a nice way to put it to the kids. But I see no issue.
There were a few teachers I'd hug as a child. |
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By *tonMessCouple
over a year ago
Slough Windsor ish |
"Do people think that staff that work in Early Years Education should or shouldn't hug the children in their care when appropriate. These are children from approx 6 weeks to 5 years. Staff do extensive Safeguarding Training among lots of other training."
You cannot avoid contact with babies and toddlers, I work with 4 year olds and they still need to have a reassuring hug from time to time, they will often hug when they arrive in the morning or at various points throughout the day. We are trained to turn to the side and allow the hug for a moment. If a child is particularly clingy as some are we encourage funny hand shakes or shoulder pat's as an alternative.
Hugging is not encouraged but neither is it actively discouraged.
As the children grow up through the school we will often come into contact with them and it's not unusual to get a random hug or funny handshake from an older child. It shows trust. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Do people think that staff that work in Early Years Education should or shouldn't hug the children in their care when appropriate. These are children from approx 6 weeks to 5 years. Staff do extensive Safeguarding Training among lots of other training.
You cannot avoid contact with babies and toddlers, I work with 4 year olds and they still need to have a reassuring hug from time to time, they will often hug when they arrive in the morning or at various points throughout the day. We are trained to turn to the side and allow the hug for a moment. If a child is particularly clingy as some are we encourage funny hand shakes or shoulder pat's as an alternative.
Hugging is not encouraged but neither is it actively discouraged.
As the children grow up through the school we will often come into contact with them and it's not unusual to get a random hug or funny handshake from an older child. It shows trust."
Yes thats exactly what i have been trained to do although i usually work with 2 to 3 year olds so they tend to want more hugs than the 4 year olds. |
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"Do people think that staff that work in Early Years Education should or shouldn't hug the children in their care when appropriate. These are children from approx 6 weeks to 5 years. Staff do extensive Safeguarding Training among lots of other training.
You cannot avoid contact with babies and toddlers, I work with 4 year olds and they still need to have a reassuring hug from time to time, they will often hug when they arrive in the morning or at various points throughout the day. We are trained to turn to the side and allow the hug for a moment. If a child is particularly clingy as some are we encourage funny hand shakes or shoulder pat's as an alternative.
Hugging is not encouraged but neither is it actively discouraged.
As the children grow up through the school we will often come into contact with them and it's not unusual to get a random hug or funny handshake from an older child. It shows trust.
Yes thats exactly what i have been trained to do although i usually work with 2 to 3 year olds so they tend to want more hugs than the 4 year olds. "
How many men where you work? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This is clear for me.
It's all to do with consent.
If the hug is initiated by the child then of course it should be reciprocated. Hugs should never be adult initiated.
Great believer in children being an advocate of their own bodies, by allowing them to make the rules on what is acceptable for them, of they feel uncomfortable with contact then they should be able to say abd have that view respected, this builds up resilience and sense of self. They will grow up having a clear sense of what is acceptable and what is not
Their body, their boundary.
Consent, that's what it's all about. Simples.
Paedophiles charter. You base your opinion on all adults and children being 'normal' and an ideal world.
Sting from the Police was a teacher and wrote "Don't stand so close to me" based on his experiences."
No I base my opinion on whether the child consents to a hug or not. Wtf has paedophiles got to do with that! It's about children and their rights being respected.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Do people think that staff that work in Early Years Education should or shouldn't hug the children in their care when appropriate. These are children from approx 6 weeks to 5 years. Staff do extensive Safeguarding Training among lots of other training."
I work in early years and my poibt above stands, I do hug my charges but only if they initiate it.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Do people think that staff that work in Early Years Education should or shouldn't hug the children in their care when appropriate. These are children from approx 6 weeks to 5 years. Staff do extensive Safeguarding Training among lots of other training.
You cannot avoid contact with babies and toddlers, I work with 4 year olds and they still need to have a reassuring hug from time to time, they will often hug when they arrive in the morning or at various points throughout the day. We are trained to turn to the side and allow the hug for a moment. If a child is particularly clingy as some are we encourage funny hand shakes or shoulder pat's as an alternative.
Hugging is not encouraged but neither is it actively discouraged.
As the children grow up through the school we will often come into contact with them and it's not unusual to get a random hug or funny handshake from an older child. It shows trust.
Yes thats exactly what i have been trained to do although i usually work with 2 to 3 year olds so they tend to want more hugs than the 4 year olds.
How many men where you work? "
Non with the 4 and under but we also have after school clubs etc and men work there. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Do people think that staff that work in Early Years Education should or shouldn't hug the children in their care when appropriate. These are children from approx 6 weeks to 5 years. Staff do extensive Safeguarding Training among lots of other training.
I work in early years and my poibt above stands, I do hug my charges but only if they initiate it.
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Same for me with the children i look after. |
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