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Teaching calves to drink from buckets
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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One of my favourite tasks as a young man. Once a calf has had it's colostrum (the first milk, that extra thick gloopy stuff that contains all the mother's natural antibodies) it's taken away from it's mother.
Vegans please note, this is not because the farmer is 'cruel' but because you can't have calves running around in the milking parlour. It's no place for them and very dangerous.
First climb into the pen with your bucket, calves are naturally inquisitive and always hungry so it will come to you. Straddle the calf so you can grip it's shoulders between your knees. Lean forward and insert two fingers into it's mouth, it will immediately begin to suck. Dunk it's snout into the bucket of milk but keep your fingers in it's mouth for a time. It will then be able to take the milk in. After a few seconds swiftly remove your fingers and hope for the best. Hopefully the calf will get it but be prepared to get wet as the calf realises it's not getting any more milk and starts to thrash around in frustration (you may need to get more milk). This may take a few tries but they're quick learners, once successful a bucket can simply be left in a ring on the pen door for the calf to help itself. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"One of my favourite tasks as a young man. Once a calf has had it's colostrum (the first milk, that extra thick gloopy stuff that contains all the mother's natural antibodies) it's taken away from it's mother.
Vegans please note, this is not because the farmer is 'cruel' but because you can't have calves running around in the milking parlour. It's no place for them and very dangerous.
First climb into the pen with your bucket, calves are naturally inquisitive and always hungry so it will come to you. Straddle the calf so you can grip it's shoulders between your knees. Lean forward and insert two fingers into it's mouth, it will immediately begin to suck. Dunk it's snout into the bucket of milk but keep your fingers in it's mouth for a time. It will then be able to take the milk in. After a few seconds swiftly remove your fingers and hope for the best. Hopefully the calf will get it but be prepared to get wet as the calf realises it's not getting any more milk and starts to thrash around in frustration (you may need to get more milk). This may take a few tries but they're quick learners, once successful a bucket can simply be left in a ring on the pen door for the calf to help itself."
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think it's refreshing to have authentic rural anecdotes. We get more than enough urban stuff on fab. Xxx"
A glimpse of a life i think most people are unaware of, some may find it interesting, some may not. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I find it weirdly interesting! I put it down to having lived in a city for 12 years and now back in the south west and working in a fairly rural area surrounded by farms and looking after children who have parents working in agriculture. And yes, I admit I stood in total awe a little while ago watching the farmer and sheep dog rounding up the sheep! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"One of my favourite tasks as a young man. Once a calf has had it's colostrum (the first milk, that extra thick gloopy stuff that contains all the mother's natural antibodies) it's taken away from it's mother.
Vegans please note, this is not because the farmer is 'cruel' but because you can't have calves running around in the milking parlour. It's no place for them and very dangerous.
First climb into the pen with your bucket, calves are naturally inquisitive and always hungry so it will come to you. Straddle the calf so you can grip it's shoulders between your knees. Lean forward and insert two fingers into it's mouth, it will immediately begin to suck. Dunk it's snout into the bucket of milk but keep your fingers in it's mouth for a time. It will then be able to take the milk in. After a few seconds swiftly remove your fingers and hope for the best. Hopefully the calf will get it but be prepared to get wet as the calf realises it's not getting any more milk and starts to thrash around in frustration (you may need to get more milk). This may take a few tries but they're quick learners, once successful a bucket can simply be left in a ring on the pen door for the calf to help itself."
Or you could just use the purpose made buckets with teats on?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Or even better there's a place called Calf at foot dairy (search engine people) that is a successful small business model of kind and sustainable milk and beef production. |
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It is a successful "small" business model... Fine for a single small producer with enough affluent customers. These methods of production alone could not produce enough food to feed the 7.6billion mouths in the world. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Or even better there's a place called Calf at foot dairy (search engine people) that is a successful small business model of kind and sustainable milk and beef production."
Sounds good to me 
As for the op, you might not think it's cruel to remove a calf from its mother but plenty do. It's got nothing to do with being vegan either.
The reason for taking a calf away from its mother is because it reduces milk production plain and simple. Has nothing to do with the health and safety in the milking parlour.
Take the calf away and feed it artificial milk. Pump it full of antibiotics, feed it up and sell for beef. All sounds very healthy to me? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It is a successful "small" business model... Fine for a single small producer with enough affluent customers. These methods of production alone could not produce enough food to feed the 7.6billion mouths in the world."
I dont believe that personally. Just a lie to encourage these massive farms owned by a small few affluent companies into business. How much food gets wasted this country alone. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Calves are taken away from their mothers purely for practical reasons. If you have 300 head to milk twice a day every day that means there will also be 300+ calves. On modern farms herds often have to walk considerable distances from field to parlour and the parlour it's self is no place for calves. Keeping calves with their mothers would cause chaos, be distracting and time consuming. It has nothing to do with the amount of milk they consume.
Furthermore if the mother was that distressed they would dry up altogether being quite sensitive creatures, i've never known this to happen. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Yeah that doesn't sound at all cruel
Let me guess you live in the city ?"
Often the harshest critics are those with the least first hand experience.  |
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"Yeah that doesn't sound at all cruel
Let me guess you live in the city ?
Often the harshest critics are those with the least first hand experience. "
Yup, lots of people are blissfully unaware of where their milk, steak, pork chops etc come from, and are happy to bleat (see what I did there) about the poor moo cows etc when they see something on tv. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Yeah that doesn't sound at all cruel
Let me guess you live in the city ?
Often the harshest critics are those with the least first hand experience.
Yup, lots of people are blissfully unaware of where their milk, steak, pork chops etc come from, and are happy to bleat (see what I did there) about the poor moo cows etc when they see something on tv. "
There's a lot of mis information being bandied about and moronic rhetoric. People see only what they want to see and only on the surface without bothering to take the time to understand the reasons behind it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yeah that doesn't sound at all cruel
Let me guess you live in the city ?
Often the harshest critics are those with the least first hand experience. "
I worked on a dairy farm back in the day, so knew exactly what you were talking about. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Is it true that it's allowed to have a certain percent of pus in milk? "
I think you're referring to the TBC (total bacterial count), i wouldn't call it puss as the bacteria can come from anywhere and milk from cows with mastitis is always discarded..
It is true that there is a certain allowable level of TBC but anything over that the dairy will refuse to take. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Used to have to get the cows in for milking, if you were a bit late, they would be already stood by the gate waiting for you. "
Some people like to believe that cows don't enjoy being milked but the sense of relief in the parlour is palpable. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Used to have to get the cows in for milking, if you were a bit late, they would be already stood by the gate waiting for you.
Some people like to believe that cows don't enjoy being milked but the sense of relief in the parlour is palpable."
Yeah, they’re so relaxed it’s just a natural part of there day. |
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"Used to have to get the cows in for milking, if you were a bit late, they would be already stood by the gate waiting for you.
Some people like to believe that cows don't enjoy being milked but the sense of relief in the parlour is palpable."
Does the parlour have a lot of topless eastern European women doing the milking? Or is that only in the music videos. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Used to have to get the cows in for milking, if you were a bit late, they would be already stood by the gate waiting for you.
Some people like to believe that cows don't enjoy being milked but the sense of relief in the parlour is palpable.
Does the parlour have a lot of topless eastern European women doing the milking? Or is that only in the music videos."
You can’t move in parlours for topless European women doing the milking. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Used to have to get the cows in for milking, if you were a bit late, they would be already stood by the gate waiting for you.
Some people like to believe that cows don't enjoy being milked but the sense of relief in the parlour is palpable.
Does the parlour have a lot of topless eastern European women doing the milking? Or is that only in the music videos."
Well, i've never seen a cow wearing a bra, does that count?  |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"Yeah that doesn't sound at all cruel
Let me guess you live in the city ?
Often the harshest critics are those with the least first hand experience.
I worked on a dairy farm back in the day, so knew exactly what you were talking about. "
I've worked in livestock agriculture most of my working life and dairying is still the one I'm least comfortable with morally.
Still, at least with waitrose schemes, we aren't shooting as many bull calves at birth... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Yeah that doesn't sound at all cruel
Let me guess you live in the city ?
Often the harshest critics are those with the least first hand experience.
I worked on a dairy farm back in the day, so knew exactly what you were talking about.
I've worked in livestock agriculture most of my working life and dairying is still the one I'm least comfortable with morally.
Still, at least with waitrose schemes, we aren't shooting as many bull calves at birth..."
But you understand the reasons behind it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yeah that doesn't sound at all cruel
Let me guess you live in the city ?"
Sticks born and bred but whatever. Dairy is cruel. That's my view. You disagree. Let's just leave it there shall we. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yeah that doesn't sound at all cruel
Let me guess you live in the city ?
Sticks born and bred but whatever. Dairy is cruel. That's my view. You disagree. Let's just leave it there shall we. "
I saw no evidence of that, unless I worked on the one good dairy farm in the midlands. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"Yeah that doesn't sound at all cruel
Let me guess you live in the city ?
Often the harshest critics are those with the least first hand experience.
I worked on a dairy farm back in the day, so knew exactly what you were talking about.
I've worked in livestock agriculture most of my working life and dairying is still the one I'm least comfortable with morally.
Still, at least with waitrose schemes, we aren't shooting as many bull calves at birth...
But you understand the reasons behind it?"
Yes - because they are essentially worthless, hence the schemes to grow them and turn them into mince.
I would have thought that with the advances in sexed semen, there wouldn't be any need to produce any.
This is before you consider the problems with Holstiens generally.
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Yeah that doesn't sound at all cruel
Let me guess you live in the city ?
Often the harshest critics are those with the least first hand experience.
I worked on a dairy farm back in the day, so knew exactly what you were talking about.
I've worked in livestock agriculture most of my working life and dairying is still the one I'm least comfortable with morally.
Still, at least with waitrose schemes, we aren't shooting as many bull calves at birth...
But you understand the reasons behind it?
Yes - because they are essentially worthless, hence the schemes to grow them and turn them into mince.
I would have thought that with the advances in sexed semen, there wouldn't be any need to produce any.
This is before you consider the problems with Holstiens generally.
"
Using sexed semen results in up to a 20% reduction in pregnancy rates from artificial insemination, cows that don't get pregnant don't give milk. Therefore, it is unlikely that the additional cost and loss of revenue will offset the benefits of using it, particularly given how tight margins are. I doubt many farmers will be prepared to take the risk. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Or even better there's a place called Calf at foot dairy (search engine people) that is a successful small business model of kind and sustainable milk and beef production.
Sounds good to me
As for the op, you might not think it's cruel to remove a calf from its mother but plenty do. It's got nothing to do with being vegan either.
The reason for taking a calf away from its mother is because it reduces milk production plain and simple. Has nothing to do with the health and safety in the milking parlour.
Take the calf away and feed it artificial milk. Pump it full of antibiotics, feed it up and sell for beef. All sounds very healthy to me? "
Actually most calves will end up as fellow milkers. Most milk cows aren't used for beef. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To clarify- Fresian and Holstein are the most common milk breeds in the UK.
The bull calves don't live to maturity often.
Beef cattle are different.
Grown differently with different breed characteristics. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"Yeah that doesn't sound at all cruel
Let me guess you live in the city ?
Often the harshest critics are those with the least first hand experience.
I worked on a dairy farm back in the day, so knew exactly what you were talking about.
I've worked in livestock agriculture most of my working life and dairying is still the one I'm least comfortable with morally.
Still, at least with waitrose schemes, we aren't shooting as many bull calves at birth...
But you understand the reasons behind it?
Yes - because they are essentially worthless, hence the schemes to grow them and turn them into mince.
I would have thought that with the advances in sexed semen, there wouldn't be any need to produce any.
This is before you consider the problems with Holstiens generally.
Using sexed semen results in up to a 20% reduction in pregnancy rates from artificial insemination, cows that don't get pregnant don't give milk. Therefore, it is unlikely that the additional cost and loss of revenue will offset the benefits of using it, particularly given how tight margins are. I doubt many farmers will be prepared to take the risk."
Maybe it should be incentivised. I've had to make hard decisions when it came to my sheep, but I'm not sure I could shoot a perfectly healthy ram lamb... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Yeah that doesn't sound at all cruel
Let me guess you live in the city ?
Often the harshest critics are those with the least first hand experience.
I worked on a dairy farm back in the day, so knew exactly what you were talking about.
I've worked in livestock agriculture most of my working life and dairying is still the one I'm least comfortable with morally.
Still, at least with waitrose schemes, we aren't shooting as many bull calves at birth...
But you understand the reasons behind it?
Yes - because they are essentially worthless, hence the schemes to grow them and turn them into mince.
I would have thought that with the advances in sexed semen, there wouldn't be any need to produce any.
This is before you consider the problems with Holstiens generally.
Using sexed semen results in up to a 20% reduction in pregnancy rates from artificial insemination, cows that don't get pregnant don't give milk. Therefore, it is unlikely that the additional cost and loss of revenue will offset the benefits of using it, particularly given how tight margins are. I doubt many farmers will be prepared to take the risk.
Maybe it should be incentivised. I've had to make hard decisions when it came to my sheep, but I'm not sure I could shoot a perfectly healthy ram lamb..."
The blame lies not with the farmers. Consumers need to look to themselves for that source. |
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"Or even better there's a place called Calf at foot dairy (search engine people) that is a successful small business model of kind and sustainable milk and beef production.
Sounds good to me
As for the op, you might not think it's cruel to remove a calf from its mother but plenty do. It's got nothing to do with being vegan either.
The reason for taking a calf away from its mother is because it reduces milk production plain and simple. Has nothing to do with the health and safety in the milking parlour.
Take the calf away and feed it artificial milk. Pump it full of antibiotics, feed it up and sell for beef. All sounds very healthy to me? "
I take offence at the calf being pumped full of antibiotics...that is utter shit and totally not true.
Dairy or beef cattle are treated with antibiotics only when needed such as an infected cut, high temperature ECT. No different from a person going to the doctor and being given antibiotics when it is genuinely needed.
Perhaps you are right and can tell me something I don't know?? Perhaps I missing a trick and should be pumping my cattle full of antibiotics!? Since when does using antibiotics increase beef yield on a calf and not to mention the cost!
And just in case your going to inform me there pumped full of hormones....that is banned in the EU.
Please get your facts straight before you spout pish on public forums.
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Or even better there's a place called Calf at foot dairy (search engine people) that is a successful small business model of kind and sustainable milk and beef production.
Sounds good to me
As for the op, you might not think it's cruel to remove a calf from its mother but plenty do. It's got nothing to do with being vegan either.
The reason for taking a calf away from its mother is because it reduces milk production plain and simple. Has nothing to do with the health and safety in the milking parlour.
Take the calf away and feed it artificial milk. Pump it full of antibiotics, feed it up and sell for beef. All sounds very healthy to me?
I take offence at the calf being pumped full of antibiotics...that is utter shit and totally not true.
Dairy or beef cattle are treated with antibiotics only when needed such as an infected cut, high temperature ECT. No different from a person going to the doctor and being given antibiotics when it is genuinely needed.
Perhaps you are right and can tell me something I don't know?? Perhaps I missing a trick and should be pumping my cattle full of antibiotics!? Since when does using antibiotics increase beef yield on a calf and not to mention the cost!
And just in case your going to inform me there pumped full of hormones....that is banned in the EU.
Please get your facts straight before you spout pish on public forums.
"
I admit that the milk that i fed to the calves was a watered down version with added mineral and vitamin supplements but i find it interesting that some people have a problem with this when most human infants are fed with SMA. It's ok to do this with babies but not with calves? The mind boggles. |
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"It is a successful "small" business model... Fine for a single small producer with enough affluent customers. These methods of production alone could not produce enough food to feed the 7.6billion mouths in the world.
I dont believe that personally. Just a lie to encourage these massive farms owned by a small few affluent companies into business. How much food gets wasted this country alone. "
And that is the problem with many Urban folk, their beliefs bare little resemblance to reality. Being in the industry I have a much better understanding of both the science and the economics of food production. |
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I'll put it out there to all those who critise farming.. Let's see you go 30 days without consuming any product produces on farms. Maybe you might appreciate how spoilt you are by what we produce. Many of us often work 7 days a week, in all weathers, investing large amounts of capital to produce a product for which you may not be able to sell for 12 months or more, at a price which is often well below the cost of production... |
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"Or even better there's a place called Calf at foot dairy (search engine people) that is a successful small business model of kind and sustainable milk and beef production.
Sounds good to me
As for the op, you might not think it's cruel to remove a calf from its mother but plenty do. It's got nothing to do with being vegan either.
The reason for taking a calf away from its mother is because it reduces milk production plain and simple. Has nothing to do with the health and safety in the milking parlour.
Take the calf away and feed it artificial milk. Pump it full of antibiotics, feed it up and sell for beef. All sounds very healthy to me?
I take offence at the calf being pumped full of antibiotics...that is utter shit and totally not true.
Dairy or beef cattle are treated with antibiotics only when needed such as an infected cut, high temperature ECT. No different from a person going to the doctor and being given antibiotics when it is genuinely needed.
Perhaps you are right and can tell me something I don't know?? Perhaps I missing a trick and should be pumping my cattle full of antibiotics!? Since when does using antibiotics increase beef yield on a calf and not to mention the cost!
And just in case your going to inform me there pumped full of hormones....that is banned in the EU.
Please get your facts straight before you spout pish on public forums.
I admit that the milk that i fed to the calves was a watered down version with added mineral and vitamin supplements but i find it interesting that some people have a problem with this when most human infants are fed with SMA. It's ok to do this with babies but not with calves? The mind boggles."
That's a heavy hitting point really. Midwives are being told they must "respect" formula fed infants even though the science is crystal clear that it is not worthy of respect if breast feeding is available.
What me laugh are people who expect to pay £5 for a kg of chicken breast and then bitch about animal welfare. How the fuck do they think a kg of chicken breast can be profitable at £5 without some shortcuts? |
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