FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Do minorities exist anymore?
Do minorities exist anymore?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Is society so diverse now that minorities don't exist anymore?
Should we think about society as a whole, diverse population rather than trying to segregate issues?
Sexuality, gender, race, age etc.
Does helping one minority actually disadvantage the rest of people not in that group? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is society so diverse now that minorities don't exist anymore?
Should we think about society as a whole, diverse population rather than trying to segregate issues?
Sexuality, gender, race, age etc.
Does helping one minority actually disadvantage the rest of people not in that group?"
Yes they exist
No it doesn’t or shouldn’t disadvantage others  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is society so diverse now that minorities don't exist anymore?
Should we think about society as a whole, diverse population rather than trying to segregate issues?
Sexuality, gender, race, age etc.
Does helping one minority actually disadvantage the rest of people not in that group?"
No.
Depends what the specific topic being addressed is.
It doesn’t have to, no - infact there can be mutual benefits. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that. "
Too fucking sensible for Fab. |
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If society had healthy leaders and members, where others were respected and equal, then we could think of society as just. Our system exists to increase the gulf of division - the many from the few, as its central piece de resistance. Politicians often fuel the flames of hatred between the many -able bodied against disabled, richer against poorer,residents against outsiders etc.
The tyranny of the masses is an endless deleterious harm that's against those of difference who are outnumbered. Visionary leadership harmonizes all, supporting well-being of society, where all are considered of value and people support compromise so that those with differences are held dear by all.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Too fucking sensible for Fab. "
Sensible is hot. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Minorities most definitely still exist. I think it’s usually those not in a minority who suggest they don’t, purely because they don’t generally come up against any prejudice/discrimination/stereotyping. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Of course minorities still exist. I am a trade unionist and I am covered by more laws regarding my rights and what I can and can’t do than any other group of people in this country  "
Why would you be covered by more laws than other people? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Minorities most definitely still exist. I think it’s usually those not in a minority who suggest they don’t, purely because they don’t generally come up against any prejudice/discrimination/stereotyping. "
Yep |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that. "
Absolutely this
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Too fucking sensible for Fab. "
Shall I start another thread on tits ? |
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that. "
Or maybe they are significant factors because of how we focus and segregate these groups within society. Within each minority group there is racism, sexism etc etc. They are as intolerant of each other at times as others are of them, not that they see it. Just a thought ... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that. "
By focusing on differences you sustain them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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They do exist but what really bugs me is that the actions of few bad eggs give a bad name to entire minority community
But this does not happen to Majorities  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They do exist but what really bugs me is that the actions of few bad eggs give a bad name to entire minority community
But this does not happen to Majorities "
Ok, what have you done to the real Bananaman ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They do exist but what really bugs me is that the actions of few bad eggs give a bad name to entire minority community
But this does not happen to Majorities
Ok, what have you done to the real Bananaman ? "
Haha yes that's not like him to be serious ffs !! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They do exist but what really bugs me is that the actions of few bad eggs give a bad name to entire minority community
But this does not happen to Majorities
Ok, what have you done to the real Bananaman ?
Haha yes that's not like him to be serious ffs !! "
Haha I have my serious moments  |
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"They do exist but what really bugs me is that the actions of few bad eggs give a bad name to entire minority community
But this does not happen to Majorities
Ok, what have you done to the real Bananaman ?
Haha yes that's not like him to be serious ffs !! "
It's an imposter  |
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"Minorities most definitely still exist. I think it’s usually those not in a minority who suggest they don’t, purely because they don’t generally come up against any prejudice/discrimination/stereotyping. "
My other half is white and complained that white, straight, middle class men were an endangered species and a minority. I had to point out that the default has and probably will always be in his favour: the rest of society just has a slightly more level playing field.
When you still see headings like "the fist (name your minority) to hold/do (name your activityjob etc) then you realise we still have a ways to go. |
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"Is society so diverse now that minorities don't exist anymore?
Should we think about society as a whole, diverse population rather than trying to segregate issues?
Sexuality, gender, race, age etc.
Does helping one minority actually disadvantage the rest of people not in that group?"
Really interesting musings there ...
Being vegan , polyamorous , shorter than three foot nine , taller than seven foot , having any one of dozens diseases which are rare and loads of other things will always mean that people will often fit into minorities . Sometimes our choices put us in a minority , and sometimes through no fault of our own we do .
What I like is how as a society we try and view everyone as equal . It’s only relatively recently that this has been the case and long may it continue .
I don’t think that by doing this we disadvantage anyone |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Does helping one minority actually disadvantage the rest of people not in that group?
No.
Depends what the specific topic being addressed is.
It doesn’t have to, no - infact there can be mutual benefits."
An interesting point in your language and the poster above.
Both acknowledging that it "shouldn't" or "hasn't" got to disadvantage one group over another...in theory or ideally...
It's really an admission that it can or might or will happen in practice.
The "theoretical" angle is a conscience cleaner.
All truely weak members of society should be cared for equally no matter what category you lump them into.
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"Of course minorities still exist. I am a trade unionist and I am covered by more laws regarding my rights and what I can and can’t do than any other group of people in this country
Why would you be covered by more laws than other people?"
I’ll give you one of many many examples.
‘No more than six people can legally demonstrate outside a place of work after having notified the local police force’.
I don’t see that law applied to any other minorities or other groups of people. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They do exist but what really bugs me is that the actions of few bad eggs give a bad name to entire minority community
But this does not happen to Majorities
Ok, what have you done to the real Bananaman ?
Haha yes that's not like him to be serious ffs !!
It's an imposter "
haha If you met me in real life you will be in for a surprise |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They do exist but what really bugs me is that the actions of few bad eggs give a bad name to entire minority community
But this does not happen to Majorities
Ok, what have you done to the real Bananaman ?
Haha yes that's not like him to be serious ffs !! "
Btw tv/ts is the only community you can’t make a joke about  |
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"Minorities most definitely still exist. I think it’s usually those not in a minority who suggest they don’t, purely because they don’t generally come up against any prejudice/discrimination/stereotyping. "
Absofrickenlutely!!!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Does helping one minority actually disadvantage the rest of people not in that group?
No.
Depends what the specific topic being addressed is.
It doesn’t have to, no - infact there can be mutual benefits.
An interesting point in your language and the poster above.
Both acknowledging that it "shouldn't" or "hasn't" got to disadvantage one group over another...in theory or ideally...
It's really an admission that it can or might or will happen in practice.
The "theoretical" angle is a conscience cleaner.
All truely weak members of society should be cared for equally no matter what category you lump them into.
"
Of course it is saying that, it’s why I chose the words I used.
Not clear what point you’re trying to make in the ‘conscience clearer’ sentence, it’s a little vague. What are you saying? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Too fucking sensible for Fab. "
Here here |
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
By focusing on differences you sustain them. "
No, this is obviously untrue.
The more equal treatment of women, people of colour, and gay people that we have in 2018 has come about through protest and activism. It didn't just magically happen.
The approach of not noticing how different groups are treated differently has been the default position for most of history. We don't need to go back to that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm saying you know well it's possible to likely.
Do you think disadvantaging one marginalised group for another is a good thing?
Remember that there are many marginalised white men before you jump to a cliched, basic argument.
I'd like to see a rising tide of common sense that lifts all boats equally. It sounds like you are happy with a strong risk of a see-saw effect.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They do exist but what really bugs me is that the actions of few bad eggs give a bad name to entire minority community
But this does not happen to Majorities
Ok, what have you done to the real Bananaman ?
Haha yes that's not like him to be serious ffs !!
Btw tv/ts is the only community you can’t make a joke about "
No, the only minority you can make a joke about is gingers, the rest you can’t. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They do exist but what really bugs me is that the actions of few bad eggs give a bad name to entire minority community
But this does not happen to Majorities
Ok, what have you done to the real Bananaman ?
Haha yes that's not like him to be serious ffs !!
Btw tv/ts is the only community you can’t make a joke about
No, the only minority you can make a joke about is gingers, the rest you can’t. "
Gingers hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahahahah |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
By focusing on differences you sustain them. "
There’s a lovely little clip of Akala explaining the issue with responses like this to issues such as racism, on the BBC England/Radio 5 Live Facebook page. I’d post the link but not sure it’s a forum-allowed one. You can google it easily. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They do exist but what really bugs me is that the actions of few bad eggs give a bad name to entire minority community
But this does not happen to Majorities
Ok, what have you done to the real Bananaman ?
Haha yes that's not like him to be serious ffs !!
Btw tv/ts is the only community you can’t make a joke about
No, the only minority you can make a joke about is gingers, the rest you can’t.
Gingers hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahahahah "
I rest my case! |
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"They do exist but what really bugs me is that the actions of few bad eggs give a bad name to entire minority community
But this does not happen to Majorities
Ok, what have you done to the real Bananaman ?
Haha yes that's not like him to be serious ffs !!
Btw tv/ts is the only community you can’t make a joke about
No, the only minority you can make a joke about is gingers, the rest you can’t.
Gingers hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahahahah "
They're the only minority you can  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The approach of not noticing how different groups are treated differently has been the default position for most of history. We don't need to go back to that. "
If that were true you'd turn your protests to helping people scratchinh a living on a few dollars a day instead of worrying about 20 out of 200 or whatever the pay gap supposedly amounts to.
Even how you say "people of colour" just sustains the difference. They are just people...your neighbours. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm saying you know well it's possible to likely.
Do you think disadvantaging one marginalised group for another is a good thing?
Remember that there are many marginalised white men before you jump to a cliched, basic argument.
I'd like to see a rising tide of common sense that lifts all boats equally. It sounds like you are happy with a strong risk of a see-saw effect.
"
I’m afraid I find your use of language too confusing to unpick. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
By focusing on differences you sustain them.
There’s a lovely little clip of Akala explaining the issue with responses like this to issues such as racism, on the BBC England/Radio 5 Live Facebook page. I’d post the link but not sure it’s a forum-allowed one. You can google it easily. "
Can you summarise the argument?
I'm fairly sure of my opinion on the matter but I'm open to finding its weaknesses. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm saying you know well it's possible to likely.
Do you think disadvantaging one marginalised group for another is a good thing?
Remember that there are many marginalised white men before you jump to a cliched, basic argument.
I'd like to see a rising tide of common sense that lifts all boats equally. It sounds like you are happy with a strong risk of a see-saw effect.
I’m afraid I find your use of language too confusing to unpick. "
I admire your debating tactic of dodging a tricky question. |
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"
The approach of not noticing how different groups are treated differently has been the default position for most of history. We don't need to go back to that.
If that were true you'd turn your protests to helping people scratchinh a living on a few dollars a day instead of worrying about 20 out of 200 or whatever the pay gap supposedly amounts to.
Even how you say "people of colour" just sustains the difference. They are just people...your neighbours. "
Just weasel words. It's always easy to point to someone who has things worse. You follow that logic and nothing ever changes for anyone.
And I had to use a term like that to signify who I was talking about! What a ridiculous objection. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm saying you know well it's possible to likely.
Do you think disadvantaging one marginalised group for another is a good thing?
Remember that there are many marginalised white men before you jump to a cliched, basic argument.
I'd like to see a rising tide of common sense that lifts all boats equally. It sounds like you are happy with a strong risk of a see-saw effect.
I’m afraid I find your use of language too confusing to unpick.
I admire your debating tactic of dodging a tricky question. "
I’m not debating you though. And not avoiding. Nor am I doing your learning or research for you. You know this superflash, I’ve no interest in perpetuating the role of a woman doing a man’s emotional labour.
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm saying you know well it's possible to likely.
Do you think disadvantaging one marginalised group for another is a good thing?
Remember that there are many marginalised white men before you jump to a cliched, basic argument.
I'd like to see a rising tide of common sense that lifts all boats equally. It sounds like you are happy with a strong risk of a see-saw effect.
I’m afraid I find your use of language too confusing to unpick.
I admire your debating tactic of dodging a tricky question.
I’m not debating you though. And not avoiding. Nor am I doing your learning or research for you. You know this superflash, I’ve no interest in perpetuating the role of a woman doing a man’s emotional labour.
"
Especially when you were the first to fail answering a question.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
The approach of not noticing how different groups are treated differently has been the default position for most of history. We don't need to go back to that.
If that were true you'd turn your protests to helping people scratchinh a living on a few dollars a day instead of worrying about 20 out of 200 or whatever the pay gap supposedly amounts to.
Even how you say "people of colour" just sustains the difference. They are just people...your neighbours.
Just weasel words. It's always easy to point to someone who has things worse. You follow that logic and nothing ever changes for anyone.
And I had to use a term like that to signify who I was talking about! What a ridiculous objection. "
It's not weasel words...it's simple slap you in the face common sense. You want to be a right on good person who cares about people - it's good, I'm with you there.
But why are you obstinant about prioritising small problems? Why not focus efforts where they have the biggest impact.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm saying you know well it's possible to likely.
Do you think disadvantaging one marginalised group for another is a good thing?
Remember that there are many marginalised white men before you jump to a cliched, basic argument.
I'd like to see a rising tide of common sense that lifts all boats equally. It sounds like you are happy with a strong risk of a see-saw effect.
I’m afraid I find your use of language too confusing to unpick.
I admire your debating tactic of dodging a tricky question.
I’m not debating you though. And not avoiding. Nor am I doing your learning or research for you. You know this superflash, I’ve no interest in perpetuating the role of a woman doing a man’s emotional labour.
"
It's a shame you won't pull your weight with the thinking part  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm saying you know well it's possible to likely.
Do you think disadvantaging one marginalised group for another is a good thing?
Remember that there are many marginalised white men before you jump to a cliched, basic argument.
I'd like to see a rising tide of common sense that lifts all boats equally. It sounds like you are happy with a strong risk of a see-saw effect.
I’m afraid I find your use of language too confusing to unpick.
I admire your debating tactic of dodging a tricky question.
I’m not debating you though. And not avoiding. Nor am I doing your learning or research for you. You know this superflash, I’ve no interest in perpetuating the role of a woman doing a man’s emotional labour.
It's a shame you won't pull your weight with the thinking part "
Agreed. I refuse to continue doing the majority of brainwork in our interactions. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Especially when you were the first to fail answering a question.
"
I'll answer any and all questions. What was it?
We are here to talk things out, not run away when our favourite ideas are challenged. |
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"
It's not weasel words...it's simple slap you in the face common sense. You want to be a right on good person who cares about people - it's good, I'm with you there.
But why are you obstinant about prioritising small problems? Why not focus efforts where they have the biggest impact.
"
'a slap in the face' 
Problem here is you're ascribing to me a particular set of beliefs in which you seem to think I'm incredibly passionate about the gender pay gap and nothing else. Which is news to me, but I guess fits the strawman in your head that you think you're slapping around.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Don't know what to say...quick ....mention something about a straw man...that will work
You do subscribe to a spectrum of beliefs that includes the gender pay gap. But that's not the point...how about the question?
Why do you focus on first world problems? |
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"Don't know what to say...quick ....mention something about a straw man...that will work
You do subscribe to a spectrum of beliefs that includes the gender pay gap. But that's not the point...how about the question?
Why do you focus on first world problems?"
I'm going to assume you're asking why do 'people' focus on such things, rather then me personally, given you know nothing about me.
1. Because people often focus on issues that affect them directly.
2. Because people will work on small, local things they actually have a chance of changing. Getting the company you work for to make a small change towards inclusivity is a lot easier than changing the politics of Saudi Arabia.
3. People actually might do both local and international activism!
4. Smaller problems are still problems and deserve to be fixed.
But why don't we end this tediousness - tell me what the causes are that you work for, so I can be sure to support the right things in future?
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that. "
Marxist nonsense will always be popular |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that. "
Never going to happen, it’s just part of human nature, it’s in our DNA. |
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Marxist nonsense will always be popular "
Ok grandad. |
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Never going to happen, it’s just part of human nature, it’s in our DNA. "
That must be why things are exactly the same in 2018 as they were in 1918 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Never going to happen, it’s just part of human nature, it’s in our DNA.
That must be why things are exactly the same in 2018 as they were in 1918 "
Ermmm they are not really, are they?  |
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Never going to happen, it’s just part of human nature, it’s in our DNA.
That must be why things are exactly the same in 2018 as they were in 1918
Ermmm they are not really, are they? "
Exactly... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Never going to happen, it’s just part of human nature, it’s in our DNA.
That must be why things are exactly the same in 2018 as they were in 1918
Ermmm they are not really, are they?
Exactly..."
I see what you did there.. smart guy |
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Marxist nonsense will always be popular
Ok grandad. "
Don't let me distract you from your valuable work of fighting intangible villains like 'society' |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
But why don't we end this tediousness - tell me what the causes are that you work for, so I can be sure to support the right things in future?
"
Ending global poverty. A tough cookie to solve but worth going after.
My "local" campaign is trying to get people to see the damage that well intentioned but wrong ideas like yours do - you create rifts between different groups and then a self sustaining effect comes in where you must twist the truth with clever marketing to gain funding and outrage for your "cause" de jour. Meanwhile the losing side of your initiative will start to get pissed off and mobilised.....and on and on it goes....a big fucking distraction from anything important. |
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Marxist nonsense will always be popular
Ok grandad.
Don't let me distract you from your valuable work of fighting intangible villains like 'society'"
Thanks! |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
There will always be inequality and elitism.
It's part of nature. There will always be a hierarchy.
Unless you can breed a society that has no free will things will continue in this way.
Has the political, religious or sociological condition changed much from many years back?
I'd argue not.
1 step forward and 2 back. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Don't let me distract you from your valuable work of fighting intangible villains like 'society'"
The best thing about intangible villains is that you never know when to stop fighting them. |
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"
But why don't we end this tediousness - tell me what the causes are that you work for, so I can be sure to support the right things in future?
Ending global poverty. A tough cookie to solve but worth going after.
My "local" campaign is trying to get people to see the damage that well intentioned but wrong ideas like yours do - you create rifts between different groups and then a self sustaining effect comes in where you must twist the truth with clever marketing to gain funding and outrage for your "cause" de jour. Meanwhile the losing side of your initiative will start to get pissed off and mobilised.....and on and on it goes....a big fucking distraction from anything important. "
Except if this was how the world worked then slavery wouldn't have ended, women wouldn't have got the vote, gay rights wouldn't have gone from gay sex being criminal to having equal marriage, etc etc. These are all things we achieved in spite of people like you, frankly, who kicked against it for exactly the reasons you're giving now.
Fighting for equality doesn't cause the big divides you want to think it does. |
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Trouble is we keep importing people into the country who feel very strongly that women are not equal to men. That there are only two sexes, that homosexuality is a sin, that their race or caste is superior to others , or that theirs is the only true sky pixie and anyone who disagrees is a heretic. So as a society we're not just going backwards. We're going medieval! |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Never going to happen, it’s just part of human nature, it’s in our DNA.
That must be why things are exactly the same in 2018 as they were in 1918 "
I wouldn’t say they’re exactly the same per se, as we now have mobile phones and hoovers and shit,which they didn’t have back then. Also I hear hover boards are just around the corner. So in that aspect things are very different. |
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Marxist nonsense will always be popular
Ok grandad.
Don't let me distract you from your valuable work of fighting intangible villains like 'society'
Thanks! "
Pretty much all the progress in the world since 1918 was done by SJWs who took on society and the patriachy via internet forums. They smashed it down one micro aggression and one uncincious bias at a time, but by golly we're getting there comrad.
Just make sure you don't end up inventing problems because you solved so many. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Never going to happen, it’s just part of human nature, it’s in our DNA.
That must be why things are exactly the same in 2018 as they were in 1918
I wouldn’t say they’re exactly the same per se, as we now have mobile phones and hoovers and shit,which they didn’t have back then. Also I hear hover boards are just around the corner. So in that aspect things are very different. "
Society is a bit different too.. surprise surprise |
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Marxist nonsense will always be popular
Ok grandad.
Don't let me distract you from your valuable work of fighting intangible villains like 'society'
Thanks!
Pretty much all the progress in the world since 1918 was done by SJWs who took on society and the patriachy via internet forums. They smashed it down one micro aggression and one uncincious bias at a time, but by golly we're getting there comrad.
Just make sure you don't end up inventing problems because you solved so many. "
Ok grandad. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Trouble is we keep importing people into the country who feel very strongly that women are not equal to men. That there are only two sexes, that homosexuality is a sin, that their race or caste is superior to others , or that theirs is the only true sky pixie and anyone who disagrees is a heretic. So as a society we're not just going backwards. We're going medieval!"
Great then you may start colonise the rest of the world again by imposing your religion and way of living to others... |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
But why don't we end this tediousness - tell me what the causes are that you work for, so I can be sure to support the right things in future?
Ending global poverty. A tough cookie to solve but worth going after.
My "local" campaign is trying to get people to see the damage that well intentioned but wrong ideas like yours do - you create rifts between different groups and then a self sustaining effect comes in where you must twist the truth with clever marketing to gain funding and outrage for your "cause" de jour. Meanwhile the losing side of your initiative will start to get pissed off and mobilised.....and on and on it goes....a big fucking distraction from anything important.
Except if this was how the world worked then slavery wouldn't have ended, women wouldn't have got the vote, gay rights wouldn't have gone from gay sex being criminal to having equal marriage, etc etc. These are all things we achieved in spite of people like you, frankly, who kicked against it for exactly the reasons you're giving now.
Fighting for equality doesn't cause the big divides you want to think it does. "
There's no we there. You didn't do it.
They were credible and important problems at the time. You are trying to dine out on past glories.
You are firmly in the realm of diminishing returns and you are scratching around looking for causes to fight the good fight. It's shows a distinct lack of vision. |
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"Trouble is we keep importing people into the country who feel very strongly that women are not equal to men. That there are only two sexes, that homosexuality is a sin, that their race or caste is superior to others , or that theirs is the only true sky pixie and anyone who disagrees is a heretic. So as a society we're not just going backwards. We're going medieval!
Great then you may start colonise the rest of the world again by imposing your religion and way of living to others..."
I call shotgun on hong kong |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Marxist nonsense will always be popular
Ok grandad.
Don't let me distract you from your valuable work of fighting intangible villains like 'society'
Thanks!
Pretty much all the progress in the world since 1918 was done by SJWs who took on society and the patriachy via internet forums. They smashed it down one micro aggression and one uncincious bias at a time, but by golly we're getting there comrad.
Just make sure you don't end up inventing problems because you solved so many. "
Gah, I would have found that funny but for the typos. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Marxist nonsense will always be popular
Ok grandad.
Don't let me distract you from your valuable work of fighting intangible villains like 'society'
Thanks!
Pretty much all the progress in the world since 1918 was done by SJWs who took on society and the patriachy via internet forums. They smashed it down one micro aggression and one uncincious bias at a time, but by golly we're getting there comrad.
Just make sure you don't end up inventing problems because you solved so many.
Ok grandad. "
You need some new material mate, you’ve already used that lame put down! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
But why don't we end this tediousness - tell me what the causes are that you work for, so I can be sure to support the right things in future?
Ending global poverty. A tough cookie to solve but worth going after.
My "local" campaign is trying to get people to see the damage that well intentioned but wrong ideas like yours do - you create rifts between different groups and then a self sustaining effect comes in where you must twist the truth with clever marketing to gain funding and outrage for your "cause" de jour. Meanwhile the losing side of your initiative will start to get pissed off and mobilised.....and on and on it goes....a big fucking distraction from anything important.
Except if this was how the world worked then slavery wouldn't have ended, women wouldn't have got the vote, gay rights wouldn't have gone from gay sex being criminal to having equal marriage, etc etc. These are all things we achieved in spite of people like you, frankly, who kicked against it for exactly the reasons you're giving now.
Fighting for equality doesn't cause the big divides you want to think it does.
There's no we there. You didn't do it.
They were credible and important problems at the time. You are trying to dine out on past glories.
You are firmly in the realm of diminishing returns and you are scratching around looking for causes to fight the good fight. It's shows a distinct lack of vision. "
We as in 'humanity', very very obviously.
Well, we see here very clearly the 'I don't care about these issues so no one else should' attitude that lies behind most of the objections to progress from people like you. Try stretching your imagination and empathy once in a while and you might find yourself a little less annoyed. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Marxist nonsense will always be popular
Ok grandad.
Don't let me distract you from your valuable work of fighting intangible villains like 'society'
Thanks!
Pretty much all the progress in the world since 1918 was done by SJWs who took on society and the patriachy via internet forums. They smashed it down one micro aggression and one uncincious bias at a time, but by golly we're getting there comrad.
Just make sure you don't end up inventing problems because you solved so many.
Ok grandad.
You need some new material mate, you’ve already used that lame put down! "
Hello pot! Have you met kettle? |
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"Trouble is we keep importing people into the country who feel very strongly that women are not equal to men. That there are only two sexes, that homosexuality is a sin, that their race or caste is superior to others , or that theirs is the only true sky pixie and anyone who disagrees is a heretic. So as a society we're not just going backwards. We're going medieval!
Great then you may start colonise the rest of the world again by imposing your religion and way of living to others..."
Hopefully the immigrants will be modernised when they reach our shores rather than trying to turn our green and pleasant land into a colder version of the shit holes they're leaving behind. |
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Marxist nonsense will always be popular
Ok grandad.
Don't let me distract you from your valuable work of fighting intangible villains like 'society'
Thanks!
Pretty much all the progress in the world since 1918 was done by SJWs who took on society and the patriachy via internet forums. They smashed it down one micro aggression and one uncincious bias at a time, but by golly we're getting there comrad.
Just make sure you don't end up inventing problems because you solved so many.
Gah, I would have found that funny but for the typos. "
I'm dyslexic so please stop disability-shaming me else i'll have to put a sad face emoji on my next reply. |
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Marxist nonsense will always be popular
Ok grandad.
Don't let me distract you from your valuable work of fighting intangible villains like 'society'
Thanks!
Pretty much all the progress in the world since 1918 was done by SJWs who took on society and the patriachy via internet forums. They smashed it down one micro aggression and one uncincious bias at a time, but by golly we're getting there comrad.
Just make sure you don't end up inventing problems because you solved so many.
Ok grandad.
You need some new material mate, you’ve already used that lame put down! "
I can only dream of being a master of word play such as yourself, with your 'fat people lol' topics. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Marxist nonsense will always be popular
Ok grandad.
Don't let me distract you from your valuable work of fighting intangible villains like 'society'
Thanks!
Pretty much all the progress in the world since 1918 was done by SJWs who took on society and the patriachy via internet forums. They smashed it down one micro aggression and one uncincious bias at a time, but by golly we're getting there comrad.
Just make sure you don't end up inventing problems because you solved so many.
Gah, I would have found that funny but for the typos.
I'm dyslexic so please stop disability-shaming me else i'll have to put a sad face emoji on my next reply."
I know you are, and I apologise if you felt disability shamed. Absolutely not my intent. I was just stating a fact, I started to smile but the typos irked me and I deflated. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Marxist nonsense will always be popular
Ok grandad.
Don't let me distract you from your valuable work of fighting intangible villains like 'society'
Thanks!
Pretty much all the progress in the world since 1918 was done by SJWs who took on society and the patriachy via internet forums. They smashed it down one micro aggression and one uncincious bias at a time, but by golly we're getting there comrad.
Just make sure you don't end up inventing problems because you solved so many.
Ok grandad.
You need some new material mate, you’ve already used that lame put down!
I can only dream of being a master of word play such as yourself, with your 'fat people lol' topics. "
Also see my thread today ‘Overused words used by boring peope’ Lol pops up more than any other word on there!
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Trouble is we keep importing people into the country who feel very strongly that women are not equal to men. That there are only two sexes, that homosexuality is a sin, that their race or caste is superior to others , or that theirs is the only true sky pixie and anyone who disagrees is a heretic. So as a society we're not just going backwards. We're going medieval!
Great then you may start colonise the rest of the world again by imposing your religion and way of living to others...
Hopefully the immigrants will be modernised when they reach our shores rather than trying to turn our green and pleasant land into a colder version of the shit holes they're leaving behind. "
By modernisation you mean teaching those black males to fuck the wives of those white males?
|
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"Trouble is we keep importing people into the country who feel very strongly that women are not equal to men. That there are only two sexes, that homosexuality is a sin, that their race or caste is superior to others , or that theirs is the only true sky pixie and anyone who disagrees is a heretic. So as a society we're not just going backwards. We're going medieval!
Great then you may start colonise the rest of the world again by imposing your religion and way of living to others...
Hopefully the immigrants will be modernised when they reach our shores rather than trying to turn our green and pleasant land into a colder version of the shit holes they're leaving behind.
By modernisation you mean teaching those black males to fuck the wives of those white males?
"
Quite the opposite. Imagine a world where black guys shared THEIR wives  OMG |
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Marxist nonsense will always be popular
Ok grandad.
Don't let me distract you from your valuable work of fighting intangible villains like 'society'
Thanks!
Pretty much all the progress in the world since 1918 was done by SJWs who took on society and the patriachy via internet forums. They smashed it down one micro aggression and one uncincious bias at a time, but by golly we're getting there comrad.
Just make sure you don't end up inventing problems because you solved so many.
Gah, I would have found that funny but for the typos.
I'm dyslexic so please stop disability-shaming me else i'll have to put a sad face emoji on my next reply.
I know you are, and I apologise if you felt disability shamed. Absolutely not my intent. I was just stating a fact, I started to smile but the typos irked me and I deflated. "
Seriously though, you must understand why assigning people group identities rather than individal ones, is dehumanising? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Trouble is we keep importing people into the country who feel very strongly that women are not equal to men. That there are only two sexes, that homosexuality is a sin, that their race or caste is superior to others , or that theirs is the only true sky pixie and anyone who disagrees is a heretic. So as a society we're not just going backwards. We're going medieval!
Great then you may start colonise the rest of the world again by imposing your religion and way of living to others...
Hopefully the immigrants will be modernised when they reach our shores rather than trying to turn our green and pleasant land into a colder version of the shit holes they're leaving behind.
By modernisation you mean teaching those black males to fuck the wives of those white males?
Quite the opposite. Imagine a world where black guys shared THEIR wives OMG"
Deflecting, at least now there is no doubt in my mind of your intellectual level |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Marxist nonsense will always be popular
Ok grandad.
Don't let me distract you from your valuable work of fighting intangible villains like 'society'
Thanks!
Pretty much all the progress in the world since 1918 was done by SJWs who took on society and the patriachy via internet forums. They smashed it down one micro aggression and one uncincious bias at a time, but by golly we're getting there comrad.
Just make sure you don't end up inventing problems because you solved so many.
Gah, I would have found that funny but for the typos.
I'm dyslexic so please stop disability-shaming me else i'll have to put a sad face emoji on my next reply.
I know you are, and I apologise if you felt disability shamed. Absolutely not my intent. I was just stating a fact, I started to smile but the typos irked me and I deflated.
Seriously though, you must understand why assigning people group identities rather than individal ones, is dehumanising? "
My answer to the OP is up there, and shows clearly (I hope) that I can see issues with both sides and positives too. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Trouble is we keep importing people into the country who feel very strongly that women are not equal to men. That there are only two sexes, that homosexuality is a sin, that their race or caste is superior to others , or that theirs is the only true sky pixie and anyone who disagrees is a heretic. So as a society we're not just going backwards. We're going medieval!
Great then you may start colonise the rest of the world again by imposing your religion and way of living to others...
Hopefully the immigrants will be modernised when they reach our shores rather than trying to turn our green and pleasant land into a colder version of the shit holes they're leaving behind.
By modernisation you mean teaching those black males to fuck the wives of those white males?
Quite the opposite. Imagine a world where black guys shared THEIR wives OMG"
Wow just the thought has made me climax |
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"
I can only dream of being a master of word play such as yourself, with your 'fat people lol' topics.
Also see my thread today ‘Overused words used by boring peope’ Lol pops up more than any other word on there!
"
See the speech marks around 'fat people lol'? I was mocking your topic for being on the 'lol' kinda level...
Good lord, this is no way to spend a Saturday. We should all be a bit ashamed of ourselves. Time for the pub. |
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"Trouble is we keep importing people into the country who feel very strongly that women are not equal to men. That there are only two sexes, that homosexuality is a sin, that their race or caste is superior to others , or that theirs is the only true sky pixie and anyone who disagrees is a heretic. So as a society we're not just going backwards. We're going medieval!
Great then you may start colonise the rest of the world again by imposing your religion and way of living to others...
Hopefully the immigrants will be modernised when they reach our shores rather than trying to turn our green and pleasant land into a colder version of the shit holes they're leaving behind.
By modernisation you mean teaching those black males to fuck the wives of those white males?
Quite the opposite. Imagine a world where black guys shared THEIR wives OMG
Deflecting, at least now there is no doubt in my mind of your intellectual level "
Thank fuck for that. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
But why don't we end this tediousness - tell me what the causes are that you work for, so I can be sure to support the right things in future?
Ending global poverty. A tough cookie to solve but worth going after.
My "local" campaign is trying to get people to see the damage that well intentioned but wrong ideas like yours do - you create rifts between different groups and then a self sustaining effect comes in where you must twist the truth with clever marketing to gain funding and outrage for your "cause" de jour. Meanwhile the losing side of your initiative will start to get pissed off and mobilised.....and on and on it goes....a big fucking distraction from anything important.
Except if this was how the world worked then slavery wouldn't have ended, women wouldn't have got the vote, gay rights wouldn't have gone from gay sex being criminal to having equal marriage, etc etc. These are all things we achieved in spite of people like you, frankly, who kicked against it for exactly the reasons you're giving now.
Fighting for equality doesn't cause the big divides you want to think it does.
There's no we there. You didn't do it.
They were credible and important problems at the time. You are trying to dine out on past glories.
You are firmly in the realm of diminishing returns and you are scratching around looking for causes to fight the good fight. It's shows a distinct lack of vision.
We as in 'humanity', very very obviously.
Well, we see here very clearly the 'I don't care about these issues so no one else should' attitude that lies behind most of the objections to progress from people like you. Try stretching your imagination and empathy once in a while and you might find yourself a little less annoyed. "
We have very different definitions of progress.
All the heavy lifting was already done, the foundations were built long before, you are just rising dust and making a mess.
A billion people are living a tough to horrific existence while you distract yourself with the good fight. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Personally I'm bored of all the shitty arguments and negativity in some of these posts.
Naievely I try to enter a healthy debate that all too often ends up in slanging matches.
So people disagree. So fucking what.
I consider my lesson learned and henceforth will not be joining in anything other than shallow and fun posts.
*Mic drop... |
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
By focusing on differences you sustain them.
There’s a lovely little clip of Akala explaining the issue with responses like this to issues such as racism, on the BBC England/Radio 5 Live Facebook page. I’d post the link but not sure it’s a forum-allowed one. You can google it easily. "
Not sure if it's the clip you were referring to but it was just a ramble about "structural racism" backed up by some cherry picked anecdotes. His examples don't prove racism any more that the prison population being 95% would suggest the legal system is biased against all men (it isn't, men just commit more crimes). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I can only dream of being a master of word play such as yourself, with your 'fat people lol' topics.
Also see my thread today ‘Overused words used by boring peope’ Lol pops up more than any other word on there!
See the speech marks around 'fat people lol'? I was mocking your topic for being on the 'lol' kinda level...
Good lord, this is no way to spend a Saturday. We should all be a bit ashamed of ourselves. Time for the pub. "
Never used the word ‘fat’and I certainly never ever use the word ‘lol’. Enjoy the pub I’m off to arguing with strangers in the street! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" Amazing how supposedly intelligent people on fab always resort to personal insults rather than debate when things get tricky. A sign of the times i guess. "
Surely there was absolutely nothing personal in the way your portrayed immigrants. |
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" Amazing how supposedly intelligent people on fab always resort to personal insults rather than debate when things get tricky. A sign of the times i guess. "
I thought that someone who usually trips over themselves to show how virtuous they are was knowingly nasty.
Awful. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Personally I'm bored of all the shitty arguments and negativity in some of these posts.
Naievely I try to enter a healthy debate that all too often ends up in slanging matches.
So people disagree. So fucking what.
I consider my lesson learned and henceforth will not be joining in anything other than shallow and fun posts.
*Mic drop..."
This is a bit negative as a post. There’s discussion going on and arguing/debate/retort etc but people aren’t really slinging swears or shouting at others, from what I was reading. Just opinionated interaction between a few continuously spirited posters. I think you might be overthinking and overreacting a little.
*pics mic up and hands it back to you*
Come and join in. Or don’t. But have fun whatever you do. |
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"Personally I'm bored of all the shitty arguments and negativity in some of these posts.
Naievely I try to enter a healthy debate that all too often ends up in slanging matches.
So people disagree. So fucking what.
I consider my lesson learned and henceforth will not be joining in anything other than shallow and fun posts.
*Mic drop...
This is a bit negative as a post. There’s discussion going on and arguing/debate/retort etc but people aren’t really slinging swears or shouting at others, from what I was reading. Just opinionated interaction between a few continuously spirited posters. I think you might be overthinking and overreacting a little.
*pics mic up and hands it back to you*
Come and join in. Or don’t. But have fun whatever you do. "
Its true though. Calling someone grandad isn't debating. Neither is ridiculing someone for lacking education. These are forum bullies. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Personally I'm bored of all the shitty arguments and negativity in some of these posts.
Naievely I try to enter a healthy debate that all too often ends up in slanging matches.
So people disagree. So fucking what.
I consider my lesson learned and henceforth will not be joining in anything other than shallow and fun posts.
*Mic drop...
This is a bit negative as a post. There’s discussion going on and arguing/debate/retort etc but people aren’t really slinging swears or shouting at others, from what I was reading. Just opinionated interaction between a few continuously spirited posters. I think you might be overthinking and overreacting a little.
*pics mic up and hands it back to you*
Come and join in. Or don’t. But have fun whatever you do.
Its true though. Calling someone grandad isn't debating. Neither is ridiculing someone for lacking education. These are forum bullies. "
You and I could easily be categorised as such too, Clem, in our Fab lifetimes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Personally I'm bored of all the shitty arguments and negativity in some of these posts.
Naievely I try to enter a healthy debate that all too often ends up in slanging matches.
So people disagree. So fucking what.
I consider my lesson learned and henceforth will not be joining in anything other than shallow and fun posts.
*Mic drop...
This is a bit negative as a post. There’s discussion going on and arguing/debate/retort etc but people aren’t really slinging swears or shouting at others, from what I was reading. Just opinionated interaction between a few continuously spirited posters. I think you might be overthinking and overreacting a little.
*pics mic up and hands it back to you*
Come and join in. Or don’t. But have fun whatever you do. "
I'd love to see you adopt the spirit of your post.
I think you'd be more fun if you would engage with questions and not deflect with smartarsery. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Personally I'm bored of all the shitty arguments and negativity in some of these posts.
Naievely I try to enter a healthy debate that all too often ends up in slanging matches.
So people disagree. So fucking what.
I consider my lesson learned and henceforth will not be joining in anything other than shallow and fun posts.
*Mic drop...
This is a bit negative as a post. There’s discussion going on and arguing/debate/retort etc but people aren’t really slinging swears or shouting at others, from what I was reading. Just opinionated interaction between a few continuously spirited posters. I think you might be overthinking and overreacting a little.
*pics mic up and hands it back to you*
Come and join in. Or don’t. But have fun whatever you do.
Its true though. Calling someone grandad isn't debating. Neither is ridiculing someone for lacking education. These are forum bullies. "
Yes but portraying immigrants as the reason for the society's 'decadence' is totally okay... Playing the victim is the best defense for some.
They are bullies... Not me... I am not I am just stating my opinions but the ones who reply to it are the bullies... |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Personally I'm bored of all the shitty arguments and negativity in some of these posts.
Naievely I try to enter a healthy debate that all too often ends up in slanging matches.
So people disagree. So fucking what.
I consider my lesson learned and henceforth will not be joining in anything other than shallow and fun posts.
*Mic drop...
This is a bit negative as a post. There’s discussion going on and arguing/debate/retort etc but people aren’t really slinging swears or shouting at others, from what I was reading. Just opinionated interaction between a few continuously spirited posters. I think you might be overthinking and overreacting a little.
*pics mic up and hands it back to you*
Come and join in. Or don’t. But have fun whatever you do.
I'd love to see you adopt the spirit of your post.
I think you'd be more fun if you would engage with questions and not deflect with smartarsery. "
I’m sorry to continually disappoint you. I asked you to be clear and explain what you meant, as a way to engage (a long time back) but as I still couldn’t figure out your point, I stopped.
I’m having fun though, and as self-centred as it is, I’m more bothered that I am then if you are. |
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"Personally I'm bored of all the shitty arguments and negativity in some of these posts.
Naievely I try to enter a healthy debate that all too often ends up in slanging matches.
So people disagree. So fucking what.
I consider my lesson learned and henceforth will not be joining in anything other than shallow and fun posts.
*Mic drop...
This is a bit negative as a post. There’s discussion going on and arguing/debate/retort etc but people aren’t really slinging swears or shouting at others, from what I was reading. Just opinionated interaction between a few continuously spirited posters. I think you might be overthinking and overreacting a little.
*pics mic up and hands it back to you*
Come and join in. Or don’t. But have fun whatever you do.
Its true though. Calling someone grandad isn't debating. Neither is ridiculing someone for lacking education. These are forum bullies.
Yes but portraying immigrants as the reason for the society's 'decadence' is totally okay... Playing the victim is the best defense for some.
They are bullies... Not me... I am not I am just stating my opinions but the ones who reply to it are the bullies... "
Yes but time and time again you play the player not the ball. This stops debate. I may have a completely different opinion and enjoy a debate about anything. But you insult the player. Do you understand? |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Personally I'm bored of all the shitty arguments and negativity in some of these posts.
Naievely I try to enter a healthy debate that all too often ends up in slanging matches.
So people disagree. So fucking what.
I consider my lesson learned and henceforth will not be joining in anything other than shallow and fun posts.
*Mic drop...
This is a bit negative as a post. There’s discussion going on and arguing/debate/retort etc but people aren’t really slinging swears or shouting at others, from what I was reading. Just opinionated interaction between a few continuously spirited posters. I think you might be overthinking and overreacting a little.
*pics mic up and hands it back to you*
Come and join in. Or don’t. But have fun whatever you do.
Its true though. Calling someone grandad isn't debating. Neither is ridiculing someone for lacking education. These are forum bullies.
Yes but portraying immigrants as the reason for the society's 'decadence' is totally okay... Playing the victim is the best defense for some.
They are bullies... Not me... I am not I am just stating my opinions but the ones who reply to it are the bullies...
Yes but time and time again you play the player not the ball. This stops debate. I may have a completely different opinion and enjoy a debate about anything. But you insult the player. Do you understand? "
Well didn't you insult some ppl with your statements about immigrants ?
Love giving but using the 'I am bullied card' when receiving.
Sincerly from an immigrant xx |
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Societies are hugely complex with many interdepencies, they are also dynamic and attempts to improve one part can have unintended consequences in other parts.
Many people are naturally drawn to simplistic categories of groups within society and can find objective measures by which those groups are disadvantaged. What they miss is that using different measures, the case can also be made that the supposedly advantaged groups, are also disadvantaged.
That's not to say that all groups are equally disadvantaged. But once you realise that nearly all of the disadvantages come from imperfect systems that were never designed as a coherent, intergated system, then we can put down the conspriacy theories and come up with real solutions. However i don't think that can happen until people acknowledge that the imperfect systems we have, are still a heck of a lot better than any we've had before and give up the group identities that aren't helpful, instead dealing with things on an issue by issue basis. |
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or View forums list | |
"Personally I'm bored of all the shitty arguments and negativity in some of these posts.
Naievely I try to enter a healthy debate that all too often ends up in slanging matches.
So people disagree. So fucking what.
I consider my lesson learned and henceforth will not be joining in anything other than shallow and fun posts.
*Mic drop...
This is a bit negative as a post. There’s discussion going on and arguing/debate/retort etc but people aren’t really slinging swears or shouting at others, from what I was reading. Just opinionated interaction between a few continuously spirited posters. I think you might be overthinking and overreacting a little.
*pics mic up and hands it back to you*
Come and join in. Or don’t. But have fun whatever you do.
Its true though. Calling someone grandad isn't debating. Neither is ridiculing someone for lacking education. These are forum bullies.
Yes but portraying immigrants as the reason for the society's 'decadence' is totally okay... Playing the victim is the best defense for some.
They are bullies... Not me... I am not I am just stating my opinions but the ones who reply to it are the bullies...
Yes but time and time again you play the player not the ball. This stops debate. I may have a completely different opinion and enjoy a debate about anything. But you insult the player. Do you understand?
Well didn't you insult some ppl with your statements about immigrants ?
Love giving but using the 'I am bullied card' when receiving.
Sincerly from an immigrant xx "
Not personally no. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that.
Too fucking sensible for Fab.
Shall I start another thread on tits ? "
Yes please I haven’t got a clue how to answer on this thread |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Societies are hugely complex with many interdepencies, they are also dynamic and attempts to improve one part can have unintended consequences in other parts.
Many people are naturally drawn to simplistic categories of groups within society and can find objective measures by which those groups are disadvantaged. What they miss is that using different measures, the case can also be made that the supposedly advantaged groups, are also disadvantaged.
That's not to say that all groups are equally disadvantaged. But once you realise that nearly all of the disadvantages come from imperfect systems that were never designed as a coherent, intergated system, then we can put down the conspriacy theories and come up with real solutions. However i don't think that can happen until people acknowledge that the imperfect systems we have, are still a heck of a lot better than any we've had before and give up the group identities that aren't helpful, instead dealing with things on an issue by issue basis. "
I do agree with this. I often find though that the conversation/s I have are not with someone who grasps that wider picture but someone from a (if we revert back to the majority/minority conversations, for want of a better term) majority group denying the issues faced by a minority, which requires this to be discussed first.
That probably makes no sense, my articulation is a little clumsy today. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Personally I'm bored of all the shitty arguments and negativity in some of these posts.
Naievely I try to enter a healthy debate that all too often ends up in slanging matches.
So people disagree. So fucking what.
I consider my lesson learned and henceforth will not be joining in anything other than shallow and fun posts.
*Mic drop...
This is a bit negative as a post. There’s discussion going on and arguing/debate/retort etc but people aren’t really slinging swears or shouting at others, from what I was reading. Just opinionated interaction between a few continuously spirited posters. I think you might be overthinking and overreacting a little.
*pics mic up and hands it back to you*
Come and join in. Or don’t. But have fun whatever you do.
Its true though. Calling someone grandad isn't debating. Neither is ridiculing someone for lacking education. These are forum bullies.
Yes but portraying immigrants as the reason for the society's 'decadence' is totally okay... Playing the victim is the best defense for some.
They are bullies... Not me... I am not I am just stating my opinions but the ones who reply to it are the bullies...
Yes but time and time again you play the player not the ball. This stops debate. I may have a completely different opinion and enjoy a debate about anything. But you insult the player. Do you understand?
Well didn't you insult some ppl with your statements about immigrants ?
Love giving but using the 'I am bullied card' when receiving.
Sincerly from an immigrant xx
Not personally no. "
My bad, the immigrants in me took it personally when you said that 'we' (making a clear distinction between your kind and my kind) keep importing people into the country who feel very strongly that women are not equal to men. That there are only two sexes, that homosexuality is a sin, that their race or caste is superior to others, (funny but it sounds like you think that your race is intellectually superior to the ones entering your country and they need to be educated by ppl like you, who hold the true value of women equality yet still pay them less than men) or that theirs is the only true sky pixie and anyone who disagrees is a heretic. So as a society we're not just going backwards. We're going medieval' |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Personally I'm bored of all the shitty arguments and negativity in some of these posts.
Naievely I try to enter a healthy debate that all too often ends up in slanging matches.
So people disagree. So fucking what.
I consider my lesson learned and henceforth will not be joining in anything other than shallow and fun posts.
*Mic drop...
This is a bit negative as a post. There’s discussion going on and arguing/debate/retort etc but people aren’t really slinging swears or shouting at others, from what I was reading. Just opinionated interaction between a few continuously spirited posters. I think you might be overthinking and overreacting a little.
*pics mic up and hands it back to you*
Come and join in. Or don’t. But have fun whatever you do.
Its true though. Calling someone grandad isn't debating. Neither is ridiculing someone for lacking education. These are forum bullies.
Yes but portraying immigrants as the reason for the society's 'decadence' is totally okay... Playing the victim is the best defense for some.
They are bullies... Not me... I am not I am just stating my opinions but the ones who reply to it are the bullies...
Yes but time and time again you play the player not the ball. This stops debate. I may have a completely different opinion and enjoy a debate about anything. But you insult the player. Do you understand?
Well didn't you insult some ppl with your statements about immigrants ?
Love giving but using the 'I am bullied card' when receiving.
Sincerly from an immigrant xx
Not personally no.
My bad, the immigrants in me took it personally when you said that 'we' (making a clear distinction between your kind and my kind) keep importing people into the country who feel very strongly that women are not equal to men. That there are only two sexes, that homosexuality is a sin, that their race or caste is superior to others, (funny but it sounds like you think that your race is intellectually superior to the ones entering your country and they need to be educated by ppl like you, who hold the true value of women equality yet still pay them less than men) or that theirs is the only true sky pixie and anyone who disagrees is a heretic. So as a society we're not just going backwards. We're going medieval' "
Well i suggest in future you ignore my posts. Then I'll have nothing to complain about and neither will you. |
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"Societies are hugely complex with many interdepencies, they are also dynamic and attempts to improve one part can have unintended consequences in other parts.
Many people are naturally drawn to simplistic categories of groups within society and can find objective measures by which those groups are disadvantaged. What they miss is that using different measures, the case can also be made that the supposedly advantaged groups, are also disadvantaged.
That's not to say that all groups are equally disadvantaged. But once you realise that nearly all of the disadvantages come from imperfect systems that were never designed as a coherent, intergated system, then we can put down the conspriacy theories and come up with real solutions. However i don't think that can happen until people acknowledge that the imperfect systems we have, are still a heck of a lot better than any we've had before and give up the group identities that aren't helpful, instead dealing with things on an issue by issue basis.
I do agree with this. I often find though that the conversation/s I have are not with someone who grasps that wider picture but someone from a (if we revert back to the majority/minority conversations, for want of a better term) majority group denying the issues faced by a minority, which requires this to be discussed first.
That probably makes no sense, my articulation is a little clumsy today. "
One issue i disagree with many american libertarians on is maternity leave. I think it should be long and paid and they don't. My logic is that the economy works better when the playing field is levelled and as a society, we want people to have children.
Some people want to frame that as a womens issue, but i don't think it really is. It's a question about the correct role of government really. So i support it, even though I'm not a woman.
The issue i have is that many people shouting about injustices are suddenly very disinterested in certain issues that happen to primarily effect white males in the west. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Personally I'm bored of all the shitty arguments and negativity in some of these posts.
Naievely I try to enter a healthy debate that all too often ends up in slanging matches.
So people disagree. So fucking what.
I consider my lesson learned and henceforth will not be joining in anything other than shallow and fun posts.
*Mic drop...
This is a bit negative as a post. There’s discussion going on and arguing/debate/retort etc but people aren’t really slinging swears or shouting at others, from what I was reading. Just opinionated interaction between a few continuously spirited posters. I think you might be overthinking and overreacting a little.
*pics mic up and hands it back to you*
Come and join in. Or don’t. But have fun whatever you do.
Its true though. Calling someone grandad isn't debating. Neither is ridiculing someone for lacking education. These are forum bullies.
Yes but portraying immigrants as the reason for the society's 'decadence' is totally okay... Playing the victim is the best defense for some.
They are bullies... Not me... I am not I am just stating my opinions but the ones who reply to it are the bullies...
Yes but time and time again you play the player not the ball. This stops debate. I may have a completely different opinion and enjoy a debate about anything. But you insult the player. Do you understand?
Well didn't you insult some ppl with your statements about immigrants ?
Love giving but using the 'I am bullied card' when receiving.
Sincerly from an immigrant xx
Not personally no.
My bad, the immigrants in me took it personally when you said that 'we' (making a clear distinction between your kind and my kind) keep importing people into the country who feel very strongly that women are not equal to men. That there are only two sexes, that homosexuality is a sin, that their race or caste is superior to others, (funny but it sounds like you think that your race is intellectually superior to the ones entering your country and they need to be educated by ppl like you, who hold the true value of women equality yet still pay them less than men) or that theirs is the only true sky pixie and anyone who disagrees is a heretic. So as a society we're not just going backwards. We're going medieval'
Well i suggest in future you ignore my posts. Then I'll have nothing to complain about and neither will you. "
Depends on the state of your posts, I will try to go in the way of preconception you have on immigrants and do not respect your request 
Sincerly,
Xox
From an immigrant with no values whatsoever who needs to be educated by educated men like you. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Societies are hugely complex with many interdepencies, they are also dynamic and attempts to improve one part can have unintended consequences in other parts.
Many people are naturally drawn to simplistic categories of groups within society and can find objective measures by which those groups are disadvantaged. What they miss is that using different measures, the case can also be made that the supposedly advantaged groups, are also disadvantaged.
That's not to say that all groups are equally disadvantaged. But once you realise that nearly all of the disadvantages come from imperfect systems that were never designed as a coherent, intergated system, then we can put down the conspriacy theories and come up with real solutions. However i don't think that can happen until people acknowledge that the imperfect systems we have, are still a heck of a lot better than any we've had before and give up the group identities that aren't helpful, instead dealing with things on an issue by issue basis.
I do agree with this. I often find though that the conversation/s I have are not with someone who grasps that wider picture but someone from a (if we revert back to the majority/minority conversations, for want of a better term) majority group denying the issues faced by a minority, which requires this to be discussed first.
That probably makes no sense, my articulation is a little clumsy today.
One issue i disagree with many american libertarians on is maternity leave. I think it should be long and paid and they don't. My logic is that the economy works better when the playing field is levelled and as a society, we want people to have children.
Some people want to frame that as a womens issue, but i don't think it really is. It's a question about the correct role of government really. So i support it, even though I'm not a woman.
The issue i have is that many people shouting about injustices are suddenly very disinterested in certain issues that happen to primarily effect white males in the west. "
I completely agree with you on this.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Societies are hugely complex with many interdepencies, they are also dynamic and attempts to improve one part can have unintended consequences in other parts.
Many people are naturally drawn to simplistic categories of groups within society and can find objective measures by which those groups are disadvantaged. What they miss is that using different measures, the case can also be made that the supposedly advantaged groups, are also disadvantaged.
That's not to say that all groups are equally disadvantaged. But once you realise that nearly all of the disadvantages come from imperfect systems that were never designed as a coherent, intergated system, then we can put down the conspriacy theories and come up with real solutions. However i don't think that can happen until people acknowledge that the imperfect systems we have, are still a heck of a lot better than any we've had before and give up the group identities that aren't helpful, instead dealing with things on an issue by issue basis. "
A fine succinct post.
I find it virtually impossible to get anyone of a SJW bent to see the potential cost of interventionism.
Any suggestions?
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Societies are hugely complex with many interdepencies, they are also dynamic and attempts to improve one part can have unintended consequences in other parts.
Many people are naturally drawn to simplistic categories of groups within society and can find objective measures by which those groups are disadvantaged. What they miss is that using different measures, the case can also be made that the supposedly advantaged groups, are also disadvantaged.
That's not to say that all groups are equally disadvantaged. But once you realise that nearly all of the disadvantages come from imperfect systems that were never designed as a coherent, intergated system, then we can put down the conspriacy theories and come up with real solutions. However i don't think that can happen until people acknowledge that the imperfect systems we have, are still a heck of a lot better than any we've had before and give up the group identities that aren't helpful, instead dealing with things on an issue by issue basis.
A fine succinct post.
I find it virtually impossible to get anyone of a SJW bent to see the potential cost of interventionism.
Any suggestions?
"
Talk clearly, don’t assume, patronise or attack. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"Societies are hugely complex with many interdepencies, they are also dynamic and attempts to improve one part can have unintended consequences in other parts.
Many people are naturally drawn to simplistic categories of groups within society and can find objective measures by which those groups are disadvantaged. What they miss is that using different measures, the case can also be made that the supposedly advantaged groups, are also disadvantaged.
That's not to say that all groups are equally disadvantaged. But once you realise that nearly all of the disadvantages come from imperfect systems that were never designed as a coherent, intergated system, then we can put down the conspriacy theories and come up with real solutions. However i don't think that can happen until people acknowledge that the imperfect systems we have, are still a heck of a lot better than any we've had before and give up the group identities that aren't helpful, instead dealing with things on an issue by issue basis.
A fine succinct post.
I find it virtually impossible to get anyone of a SJW bent to see the potential cost of interventionism.
Any suggestions?
"
Unfortunately no, i find them overwhelmingly ignorant of history outside of the past 150 years. A point that you alluded to earlier. The stuff that i flippantly dismissed as marxism is actually much older. It's just a rehash of crap that Thrasymachus was touting about 2,500 years ago. |
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"Societies are hugely complex with many interdepencies, they are also dynamic and attempts to improve one part can have unintended consequences in other parts.
Many people are naturally drawn to simplistic categories of groups within society and can find objective measures by which those groups are disadvantaged. What they miss is that using different measures, the case can also be made that the supposedly advantaged groups, are also disadvantaged.
That's not to say that all groups are equally disadvantaged. But once you realise that nearly all of the disadvantages come from imperfect systems that were never designed as a coherent, intergated system, then we can put down the conspriacy theories and come up with real solutions. However i don't think that can happen until people acknowledge that the imperfect systems we have, are still a heck of a lot better than any we've had before and give up the group identities that aren't helpful, instead dealing with things on an issue by issue basis.
A fine succinct post.
I find it virtually impossible to get anyone of a SJW bent to see the potential cost of interventionism.
Any suggestions?
Talk clearly, don’t assume, patronise or attack. "
Shit, i patronised and attacked, just before i read this. My bad. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Do you see it yourself Estella?"
See what?
I’ll guess you mean am I following the rules I just outlaid? I never said I was perfect. No, I fall foul of them a lot. But I try to as best I can.
It’s why when you first replied to my post, rather than assume what you were saying, I asked you to clarify. And why when I still didn’t understand, I said I couldn’t unpick your comments on another post and that’s why I was going to stop.
I’m sorry if you interpreted that as patronising you. I was trying to be clear. I have had an experience of you telling me what I think rather than asking me, and I’m not a fan of your interactions - I’m actually far more open to BrokenBrilliance’s as we’ve talked more successfully in my time on here, and he has been open to chatting respectfully on PM before. Maybe this is solely my fault, but I don’t find, in my experience, Superflash that you’re in it for discussion and learning as my gut tend to feel that you enjoy attacking. I’m sorry if that’s not your intent, but there’s a language usage that takes me there in your posts and I would rather step away from it.
I’m always open to taking and hearing opinions and viewpoints (why I love the forum), but sometimes I’m not up for the debate when it feels poised to be something else. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Societies are hugely complex with many interdepencies, they are also dynamic and attempts to improve one part can have unintended consequences in other parts.
Many people are naturally drawn to simplistic categories of groups within society and can find objective measures by which those groups are disadvantaged. What they miss is that using different measures, the case can also be made that the supposedly advantaged groups, are also disadvantaged.
That's not to say that all groups are equally disadvantaged. But once you realise that nearly all of the disadvantages come from imperfect systems that were never designed as a coherent, intergated system, then we can put down the conspriacy theories and come up with real solutions. However i don't think that can happen until people acknowledge that the imperfect systems we have, are still a heck of a lot better than any we've had before and give up the group identities that aren't helpful, instead dealing with things on an issue by issue basis.
A fine succinct post.
I find it virtually impossible to get anyone of a SJW bent to see the potential cost of interventionism.
Any suggestions?
Talk clearly, don’t assume, patronise or attack.
Shit, i patronised and attacked, just before i read this. My bad. "
You did. It’s such a shame. |
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"Societies are hugely complex with many interdepencies, they are also dynamic and attempts to improve one part can have unintended consequences in other parts.
Many people are naturally drawn to simplistic categories of groups within society and can find objective measures by which those groups are disadvantaged. What they miss is that using different measures, the case can also be made that the supposedly advantaged groups, are also disadvantaged.
That's not to say that all groups are equally disadvantaged. But once you realise that nearly all of the disadvantages come from imperfect systems that were never designed as a coherent, intergated system, then we can put down the conspriacy theories and come up with real solutions. However i don't think that can happen until people acknowledge that the imperfect systems we have, are still a heck of a lot better than any we've had before and give up the group identities that aren't helpful, instead dealing with things on an issue by issue basis.
A fine succinct post.
I find it virtually impossible to get anyone of a SJW bent to see the potential cost of interventionism.
Any suggestions?
Talk clearly, don’t assume, patronise or attack.
Shit, i patronised and attacked, just before i read this. My bad.
You did. It’s such a shame. "
The thing is that there's people who agree with one and it's always lovely to get a nice from them. Then there's people who don't always agree but have a credible alternative view point that i can respect (e.g. you). But how the flip is one to deal with those who just have a distorted view of reality / parrot opinions that don't stand up to the least bit of intellectual scrutiny? I feel like ridicule is all one can do. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I do enjoy attacking ...within the realm of a debate. Damaging opinions are there to be crushed, smashed, dismantled or burnt to the ground even if you know what I mean
I probably have assumed you think a certain way on some things in the past and if so I apologise but it's not much different to assuming I'm suffering from racist views that can be cured with a woke BBC podcast (and missing the point I made).
So a truce...no assumptions and attacking only the point.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Societies are hugely complex with many interdepencies, they are also dynamic and attempts to improve one part can have unintended consequences in other parts.
Many people are naturally drawn to simplistic categories of groups within society and can find objective measures by which those groups are disadvantaged. What they miss is that using different measures, the case can also be made that the supposedly advantaged groups, are also disadvantaged.
That's not to say that all groups are equally disadvantaged. But once you realise that nearly all of the disadvantages come from imperfect systems that were never designed as a coherent, intergated system, then we can put down the conspriacy theories and come up with real solutions. However i don't think that can happen until people acknowledge that the imperfect systems we have, are still a heck of a lot better than any we've had before and give up the group identities that aren't helpful, instead dealing with things on an issue by issue basis.
A fine succinct post.
I find it virtually impossible to get anyone of a SJW bent to see the potential cost of interventionism.
Any suggestions?
Talk clearly, don’t assume, patronise or attack.
Shit, i patronised and attacked, just before i read this. My bad.
You did. It’s such a shame.
The thing is that there's people who agree with one and it's always lovely to get a nice from them. Then there's people who don't always agree but have a credible alternative view point that i can respect (e.g. you). But how the flip is one to deal with those who just have a distorted view of reality / parrot opinions that don't stand up to the least bit of intellectual scrutiny? I feel like ridicule is all one can do. "
I can’t say I don’t understand or agree. I am as guilty of doing that as the next.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Societies are hugely complex with many interdepencies, they are also dynamic and attempts to improve one part can have unintended consequences in other parts.
Many people are naturally drawn to simplistic categories of groups within society and can find objective measures by which those groups are disadvantaged. What they miss is that using different measures, the case can also be made that the supposedly advantaged groups, are also disadvantaged.
That's not to say that all groups are equally disadvantaged. But once you realise that nearly all of the disadvantages come from imperfect systems that were never designed as a coherent, intergated system, then we can put down the conspriacy theories and come up with real solutions. However i don't think that can happen until people acknowledge that the imperfect systems we have, are still a heck of a lot better than any we've had before and give up the group identities that aren't helpful, instead dealing with things on an issue by issue basis.
A fine succinct post.
I find it virtually impossible to get anyone of a SJW bent to see the potential cost of interventionism.
Any suggestions?
Talk clearly, don’t assume, patronise or attack.
Shit, i patronised and attacked, just before i read this. My bad.
You did. It’s such a shame.
The thing is that there's people who agree with one and it's always lovely to get a nice from them. Then there's people who don't always agree but have a credible alternative view point that i can respect (e.g. you). But how the flip is one to deal with those who just have a distorted view of reality / parrot opinions that don't stand up to the least bit of intellectual scrutiny? I feel like ridicule is all one can do.
I can’t say I don’t understand or agree. I am as guilty of doing that as the next.
"
Did I just contradict myself there? Ugh, I can’t multi task.
I mean, yep - I’m the same |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Okay Superflash, I’m genuinely interested in hearing how we get rid of global poverty.
Rather than attacking the majority/minority conversations. Park all that, blank page.
What needs to be done?
(Genuine question, and I just want to hear the answer/s so I can fully appreciate what happens, should happen, next in your view) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Short term
Get about an extra 5 - 10 per day to those who need it most. Use a system of dynamic prioritisation.
Long term
A very careful use of natural resources to sustainably provide enough food, water, energy, shelter, education, free time to everyone to give them a fair shot at the top of Maslow's pyramid.
If you bring everyone up a level your societal problems will melt away to insignificance as they are largely driven by unmet needs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Larger picture
Actively work to strip away ideology that leads to conflict. Most nations naturally rise to prosperity if they aren't stunted by war, half baked socialist government or dictators. They seem to do better when they have friends.
This starts at the smallest level of north Vs south, brexiteer Vs remoaner, Irish vs English, black vs white, men Vs women...it's all distraction from the singular global problem of working together to find the best outcome for the most people. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Short term
Get about an extra 5 - 10 per day to those who need it most. Use a system of dynamic prioritisation.
Long term
A very careful use of natural resources to sustainably provide enough food, water, energy, shelter, education, free time to everyone to give them a fair shot at the top of Maslow's pyramid.
If you bring everyone up a level your societal problems will melt away to insignificance as they are largely driven by unmet needs."
I’m not sure that any of us were at any point disagreeing that giving everyone who needs it some more money, nor that helping everyone was not the goal. These seem to be easy to state desirables about which I think you’d be hard pressed to find anyone that would disagree.
What is your system of dynamic prioritisation? How do you decide who gets what? |
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"Larger picture
Actively work to strip away ideology that leads to conflict. Most nations naturally rise to prosperity if they aren't stunted by war, half baked socialist government or dictators. They seem to do better when they have friends.
This starts at the smallest level of north Vs south, brexiteer Vs remoaner, Irish vs English, black vs white, men Vs women...it's all distraction from the singular global problem of working together to find the best outcome for the most people. "
North and South Korea being a prime example of this |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Short term
Get about an extra 5 - 10 per day to those who need it most. Use a system of dynamic prioritisation.
Long term
A very careful use of natural resources to sustainably provide enough food, water, energy, shelter, education, free time to everyone to give them a fair shot at the top of Maslow's pyramid.
If you bring everyone up a level your societal problems will melt away to insignificance as they are largely driven by unmet needs.
I’m not sure that any of us were at any point disagreeing that giving everyone who needs it some more money, nor that helping everyone was not the goal. These seem to be easy to state desirables about which I think you’d be hard pressed to find anyone that would disagree.
What is your system of dynamic prioritisation? How do you decide who gets what?"
Dynamic prioritisation
Work on the biggest problem until it is no longer the biggest.
The worst off get the most aid until they are not the worst off anymore, then repeat. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Short term
Get about an extra 5 - 10 per day to those who need it most. Use a system of dynamic prioritisation.
Long term
A very careful use of natural resources to sustainably provide enough food, water, energy, shelter, education, free time to everyone to give them a fair shot at the top of Maslow's pyramid.
If you bring everyone up a level your societal problems will melt away to insignificance as they are largely driven by unmet needs.
I’m not sure that any of us were at any point disagreeing that giving everyone who needs it some more money, nor that helping everyone was not the goal. These seem to be easy to state desirables about which I think you’d be hard pressed to find anyone that would disagree.
What is your system of dynamic prioritisation? How do you decide who gets what?
Dynamic prioritisation
Work on the biggest problem until it is no longer the biggest.
The worst off get the most aid until they are not the worst off anymore, then repeat. "
I can’t say I’ve disagreed with that. It’s why I work in the job I do. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So how can I as an individual make this happen?"
Identify the difference between huge problems and tiny problems.
For argument sake EVEN if women in the UK are getting 0.79 for every 1 a man makes (it's an abuse of averages - readers) ...the women in the UK are still living extremely comfortable lives and earning many many multiples of their sisters in under developed countries who are working all day to barely eat, often watch their kids die early and zero agency in their own lives.
Go after the tumour not the pimple. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So how can I as an individual make this happen?
Identify the difference between huge problems and tiny problems.
For argument sake EVEN if women in the UK are getting 0.79 for every 1 a man makes (it's an abuse of averages - readers) ...the women in the UK are still living extremely comfortable lives and earning many many multiples of their sisters in under developed countries who are working all day to barely eat, often watch their kids die early and zero agency in their own lives.
Go after the tumour not the pimple. "
But this is where you’re reverting back to being patronising.
Come on, what can I do as an individual to go after a big problem? Telling me not to talk about gender pay gap is not sufficient an answer - also, you’re the one who keeps bringing it up all through the thread. |
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"So how can I as an individual make this happen?
Identify the difference between huge problems and tiny problems.
For argument sake EVEN if women in the UK are getting 0.79 for every 1 a man makes (it's an abuse of averages - readers) ...the women in the UK are still living extremely comfortable lives and earning many many multiples of their sisters in under developed countries who are working all day to barely eat, often watch their kids die early and zero agency in their own lives.
Go after the tumour not the pimple.
But this is where you’re reverting back to being patronising.
Come on, what can I do as an individual to go after a big problem? Telling me not to talk about gender pay gap is not sufficient an answer - also, you’re the one who keeps bringing it up all through the thread. "
Your options as an individual are pretty limited. Keeping tabs on your MP is a good idea and call them out on bullshit like 'we need to cut the foreign aid budget' because it's so damn huge. Personal charity givings are great if you can afford them, as is taking a holiday and spending some cash in a place you'd like to see do better (e.g. india). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is society so diverse now that minorities don't exist anymore?
Should we think about society as a whole, diverse population rather than trying to segregate issues?
Sexuality, gender, race, age etc.
Does helping one minority actually disadvantage the rest of people not in that group?"
Racially, yes and no. Globally, every race is a minority somewhere, thus kind of cancelling everyone out. But, there are always a minority in each region.
Genderwise, yes. LGBTQ people are a minority |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So how can I as an individual make this happen?
Identify the difference between huge problems and tiny problems.
For argument sake EVEN if women in the UK are getting 0.79 for every 1 a man makes (it's an abuse of averages - readers) ...the women in the UK are still living extremely comfortable lives and earning many many multiples of their sisters in under developed countries who are working all day to barely eat, often watch their kids die early and zero agency in their own lives.
Go after the tumour not the pimple.
But this is where you’re reverting back to being patronising.
Come on, what can I do as an individual to go after a big problem? Telling me not to talk about gender pay gap is not sufficient an answer - also, you’re the one who keeps bringing it up all through the thread.
Your options as an individual are pretty limited. Keeping tabs on your MP is a good idea and call them out on bullshit like 'we need to cut the foreign aid budget' because it's so damn huge. Personal charity givings are great if you can afford them, as is taking a holiday and spending some cash in a place you'd like to see do better (e.g. india). "
Sighs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The first step to going after a big problem is walking away from lesser problems (for now). I'm being sincere!
I bring up the pay gap because it is a fine example on many grounds.
Going back to brokenbrilliance's point about the world as a complex array of systems (which you agreed with) tells us that:
(A) the phenomenon of women on average earning less may be because of systemised oppression
or
(B) the phenomenon of women on average earning less may be because of a variety of reasons stemming from personal choices in education and work life balance.
Even if we never find the answer or if we solve it so that everyone earns equally at home...the sum involved is so trivial for us as we live in relative bliss while men and women elsewhere suffer terribly.
People talk all the time about unconscious bias...but surely you must recognise locality bias as one.
If we are interested in true fairness and correcting the mistakes of history.. then thinking globally and focusing our energy on where we can make the biggest positive difference has to be the way to operate.
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"We can only stop thinking about gender, race, sexuality et al when they stop being significant factors in how people are treated by society. We still have a fair way to go to achieve that. "
Excellent. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The first step to going after a big problem is walking away from lesser problems (for now). I'm being sincere!
I bring up the pay gap because it is a fine example on many grounds.
Going back to brokenbrilliance's point about the world as a complex array of systems (which you agreed with) tells us that:
(A) the phenomenon of women on average earning less may be because of systemised oppression
or
(B) the phenomenon of women on average earning less may be because of a variety of reasons stemming from personal choices in education and work life balance.
Even if we never find the answer or if we solve it so that everyone earns equally at home...the sum involved is so trivial for us as we live in relative bliss while men and women elsewhere suffer terribly.
People talk all the time about unconscious bias...but surely you must recognise locality bias as one.
If we are interested in true fairness and correcting the mistakes of history.. then thinking globally and focusing our energy on where we can make the biggest positive difference has to be the way to operate.
"
Right, so how can I focus my energy (using your words so I hope I don’t add interpretation that may be incorrect) on where I can make the biggest positive difference, how do you suggest I operate?
BB gave me some practical steps. That’s what I’m seeking. Not a reversion back to arguing a point I’m not even raising.
What do you propose I, we, do? |
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"So how can I as an individual make this happen?
Identify the difference between huge problems and tiny problems.
For argument sake EVEN if women in the UK are getting 0.79 for every 1 a man makes (it's an abuse of averages - readers) ...the women in the UK are still living extremely comfortable lives and earning many many multiples of their sisters in under developed countries who are working all day to barely eat, often watch their kids die early and zero agency in their own lives.
Go after the tumour not the pimple.
But this is where you’re reverting back to being patronising.
Come on, what can I do as an individual to go after a big problem? Telling me not to talk about gender pay gap is not sufficient an answer - also, you’re the one who keeps bringing it up all through the thread.
Your options as an individual are pretty limited. Keeping tabs on your MP is a good idea and call them out on bullshit like 'we need to cut the foreign aid budget' because it's so damn huge. Personal charity givings are great if you can afford them, as is taking a holiday and spending some cash in a place you'd like to see do better (e.g. india).
Sighs. "
Why sigh? There's no magic solution to complex problems that any individual can simply do and fix it. Look at north and south korea, why is one poor and one rich? They have the same history, language, ethnicity, geography - everything expect different governments. There's nothing you as an individual can really do to bring down the north Korean government unless you want to make it your sole goal in life. There are small differences you can make, as i suggested. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So how can I as an individual make this happen?
Identify the difference between huge problems and tiny problems.
For argument sake EVEN if women in the UK are getting 0.79 for every 1 a man makes (it's an abuse of averages - readers) ...the women in the UK are still living extremely comfortable lives and earning many many multiples of their sisters in under developed countries who are working all day to barely eat, often watch their kids die early and zero agency in their own lives.
Go after the tumour not the pimple.
But this is where you’re reverting back to being patronising.
Come on, what can I do as an individual to go after a big problem? Telling me not to talk about gender pay gap is not sufficient an answer - also, you’re the one who keeps bringing it up all through the thread.
Your options as an individual are pretty limited. Keeping tabs on your MP is a good idea and call them out on bullshit like 'we need to cut the foreign aid budget' because it's so damn huge. Personal charity givings are great if you can afford them, as is taking a holiday and spending some cash in a place you'd like to see do better (e.g. india).
Sighs.
Why sigh? There's no magic solution to complex problems that any individual can simply do and fix it. Look at north and south korea, why is one poor and one rich? They have the same history, language, ethnicity, geography - everything expect different governments. There's nothing you as an individual can really do to bring down the north Korean government unless you want to make it your sole goal in life. There are small differences you can make, as i suggested."
Sorry, it wasn’t a disagreement sigh. It was a sigh of, life. And I do do the other things, so it was a sigh of, keep on keeping on.
I do now want to make bringing down the North Korean government my Seoul goal in life. |
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"
Sorry, it wasn’t a disagreement sigh. It was a sigh of, life. And I do do the other things, so it was a sigh of, keep on keeping on.
I do now want to make bringing down the North Korean government my Seoul goal in life. "
Gosh, jokes like that could bring down anything |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I propose that collectively all the mental energy that is spent on navel gazing 1st world marginal equality type stuff be redirected to more deserving causes.
Few individuals can invoke great change on their own, but collectively lots can happen.
There probably needs to be a tempering of extreme capitalism (I believe in fair capitalism)...if all the dissatisfaction with white men was redirected to boycotting certain companies and effective activism and so on....life could incrementally become fairer faster.
The right on view now is causing companies and organisations to fall over themselves to show the loyal customer how they support equality and women...Redirect the same sentiment to providing employment where it's needed, not stripping resources from piss poor companies, a cap on CEO compensation (especially when it's not performance related) and on and on.
There is so much that can be done with enough sentiment and willpower applied carefully to the vast streams of cash that circle the globe daily. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Sorry, it wasn’t a disagreement sigh. It was a sigh of, life. And I do do the other things, so it was a sigh of, keep on keeping on.
I do now want to make bringing down the North Korean government my Seoul goal in life.
Gosh, jokes like that could bring down anything "
. Like He-Man, I have the POWER!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I propose that collectively all the mental energy that is spent on navel gazing 1st world marginal equality type stuff be redirected to more deserving causes.
Few individuals can invoke great change on their own, but collectively lots can happen.
There probably needs to be a tempering of extreme capitalism (I believe in fair capitalism)...if all the dissatisfaction with white men was redirected to boycotting certain companies and effective activism and so on....life could incrementally become fairer faster.
The right on view now is causing companies and organisations to fall over themselves to show the loyal customer how they support equality and women...Redirect the same sentiment to providing employment where it's needed, not stripping resources from piss poor companies, a cap on CEO compensation (especially when it's not performance related) and on and on.
There is so much that can be done with enough sentiment and willpower applied carefully to the vast streams of cash that circle the globe daily. "
I’m unclear what changes I can make in my life to do this. As I really don’t think I’m falling foul of this. I’m not wholly convinced that the naval gazing of those that are talking about issues that aren’t the biggest, is the main block though. What about those uninterested in changing ‘owt as they’re happy with the current set up, aren’t they a hefty barrier? It feels a tad ‘continuation of the in fighting’ theme. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To be more succinct...if you are into identity politics, you are "part of the problem". "
I like to have a balance of judging people for their morals and the content of their thoughts and ideas. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's the same as any cause.
You have people who want equality for women fighting some chauvinists with power. You (collectively) don't seem to let such barriers to entry stop you trying.
I'm going to the gym ...so in summary:
Those that they say they want equality tend to in reality want a
want marginal improvements in local equality while ignoring much much much larger inequality far away.
It's locality bias causing a widespread failure to prioritise.
Personally I want to prioritise human life over 21 pence on the pound.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To be more succinct...if you are into identity politics, you are "part of the problem".
I like to have a balance of judging people for their morals and the content of their thoughts and ideas. "
It's fair to say that most of these people have good morals but are either ignorant or dismissive of the global problems beyond their locality. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To be more succinct...if you are into identity politics, you are "part of the problem".
I like to have a balance of judging people for their morals and the content of their thoughts and ideas.
It's fair to say that most of these people have good morals but are either ignorant or dismissive of the global problems beyond their locality. "
Not I. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is society so diverse now that minorities don't exist anymore?
Should we think about society as a whole, diverse population rather than trying to segregate issues?
Sexuality, gender, race, age etc.
Does helping one minority actually disadvantage the rest of people not in that group?"
It only disadvantage is if you take away a benefit from one group to give to another |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Shout out to my ginger brothers and sisters. Look after yourselves at this time of year. Peace."
Do you mean because they shrivel in the sun's rays? |
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