FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Let’s Get Serious: Paying for Sex
Let’s Get Serious: Paying for Sex
Jump to: Newest in thread
So... what do you think? | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"This is a subject I deal with at work. Some of the project workers think it should be legal, some don’t. Thankfully, the police are now working with the women to keep them safe, instead of arresting them. Unfortunately, I’ve seen only bad things come from selling sex, and so I just don’t think it’s a good idea. The women we see who are in the very small 2% of high end sex work, still struggle with what they do. " How much of the problem is down to the sex work per se? And how much is down to the problems which led them to it in the first place. In the uk I think we have a notion that only the girls in the top 2% you mention have made a conscious choice to make it their way of life, and the 98% are there as a result of bad luck/bad choices. Personally I wouldn’t pay for it (he would say that, wouldn’t he!) but I think all aspects should be decriminalised, in order to allow the process to be regulated. This cannot be done overnight however, and would be to happen at the same time as much stronger penalties for the actions which are said to drive people to prostitution and provide support for people wanting to get both out of and into it. | |||
"If we were to disregard the various problems linked to the reality of prostitution; the drug addiction, the human trafficking, the violence, and just focus on the act of exchanging money for sex, do you think there is something intrinsically, ethically wrong with that? Can you explain why? Are you okay with it? Why? And, if you’re okay with it as a basic concept, do you object to it in the real world, because it can’t exist without the associated difficulties? Personally, I see nothing wrong with it. I don’t see much difference between paying for sex and paying for a hot stone massage. (And before anyone gets the wrong end of that stick, I don’t see anything sexual about getting a professional massage.) I think the law in the UK fails to protect anyone working as a prostitute, their customers, or the public at large. The legal definition of a brothel removes the potential for a safe working environment for people working as prostitutes. Interpreted in the most pedantic way, it can also make it hard for a person’s business to be economically viable. It’s not a profession that’s going to go away no matter how much you make life difficult. So why not offer better protection. Legalise licensed brothels, subject to independent inspection. That means safer working environments, and peace of mind for customers. (Btw, for anyone who is unclear; the exchange of money for sex is not illegal in the UK. Soliciting for business on the street is illegal. Kerb-crawling is illegal. Working in, running, or making money from brothels is illegal. A brothel is legally defined as any place used by two or more women for their business. So, even if it’s only one ‘business’ room, and they take turns to use it to keep costs down, it’s technically a brothel.) “Men always pay for it lol,” and similar jokes will be looked down upon with appropriate disdain.
So... what do you think?"This post is too long hence boring  | |||
"I see nothing wrong with it. It should be legalised to protect the people doing it. " This
The only thing is, even with a legalised sex industry so that workers are better looked after and protected, I think there would still be many that work outside the system and remain vulnerable.
It's like the legalise drugs argument, there would still be a thriving black market I think. | |||
"I see nothing wrong with it. It should be legalised to protect the people doing it. " | |||
| |||
"I see nothing wrong with it. It should be legalised to protect the people doing it. " Agreed theres a legal red light district in leeds for this exact reason to monitor safety Saying that 1 girl was murdered last year anyway | |||
"My problem with paying for sex from a customers point of view, I wouldn't like the idea that someone was only shagging me for some coin in their purse. I'd love to cash in on all my pay me for sex offers but I couldn't physically bring myself to sleep with anyone unless I was absolutely attracted to them and then I couldn't take money for sex. I'd allow them to get me a scotch egg or a wispa but not cold hard cash. " I've a half eaten 200g Dairy Milk. Fancy a bunk up? | |||
"If we were to disregard the various problems linked to the reality of prostitution; the drug addiction, the human trafficking, the violence, and just focus on the act of exchanging money for sex, do you think there is something intrinsically, ethically wrong with that? Can you explain why? Are you okay with it? Why? And, if you’re okay with it as a basic concept, do you object to it in the real world, because it can’t exist without the associated difficulties? Personally, I see nothing wrong with it. I don’t see much difference between paying for sex and paying for a hot stone massage. (And before anyone gets the wrong end of that stick, I don’t see anything sexual about getting a professional massage.) I think the law in the UK fails to protect anyone working as a prostitute, their customers, or the public at large. The legal definition of a brothel removes the potential for a safe working environment for people working as prostitutes. Interpreted in the most pedantic way, it can also make it hard for a person’s business to be economically viable. It’s not a profession that’s going to go away no matter how much you make life difficult. So why not offer better protection. Legalise licensed brothels, subject to independent inspection. That means safer working environments, and peace of mind for customers. (Btw, for anyone who is unclear; the exchange of money for sex is not illegal in the UK. Soliciting for business on the street is illegal. Kerb-crawling is illegal. Working in, running, or making money from brothels is illegal. A brothel is legally defined as any place used by two or more women for their business. So, even if it’s only one ‘business’ room, and they take turns to use it to keep costs down, it’s technically a brothel.) “Men always pay for it lol,” and similar jokes will be looked down upon with appropriate disdain.
So... what do you think?"I've just reported a fabber for asking me how much to suck him off  | |||
| |||
"The only thing is, even with a legalised sex industry so that workers are better looked after and protected, I think there would still be many that work outside the system and remain vulnerable." True. Legalised, licensed, regulated brothels are fine for most off-street sex workers, but few street sex workers would have a chance of meeting the likely health requirements. Now, in reality that would just mean that that part of the industry would continue pretty much unchanged, but I’m sure the government would be accused of dealing with it in a way that is prejudiced against those who are arguably more vulnerable. It would also probably take a few generations to remove the stigma which would prevent customers attending recognisable brothels. | |||
"This is a subject I deal with at work. Some of the project workers think it should be legal, some don’t. Thankfully, the police are now working with the women to keep them safe, instead of arresting them. Unfortunately, I’ve seen only bad things come from selling sex, and so I just don’t think it’s a good idea. The women we see who are in the very small 2% of high end sex work, still struggle with what they do. How much of the problem is down to the sex work per se? And how much is down to the problems which led them to it in the first place. In the uk I think we have a notion that only the girls in the top 2% you mention have made a conscious choice to make it their way of life, and the 98% are there as a result of bad luck/bad choices. Personally I wouldn’t pay for it (he would say that, wouldn’t he!) but I think all aspects should be decriminalised, in order to allow the process to be regulated. This cannot be done overnight however, and would be to happen at the same time as much stronger penalties for the actions which are said to drive people to prostitution and provide support for people wanting to get both out of and into it." There are two parts really. Most of the sex workers we see have been in care, abused, or trafficked in and so that’s lead them to where they are now, and so that’s a consequence of past problems. The biggest issue I’ve seen the minority face are the personal relationship breakdowns because of their work. | |||
"My problem with paying for sex from a customers point of view, I wouldn't like the idea that someone was only shagging me for some coin in their purse." I know a few on here watched the recent documentary on channel 5. There’s also an excellent documentary on Netflix. It makes it clear that, despite how much they can explicitly say that they don’t care about their clients and feel no connection, many do a grand job of convincing the customer that there’s an attraction. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"Looking at some of the escorts that do tours on AW it looks like they can make a good living but if it was legalised what with income tax and whatever else they would have to pay would they make such a good living." What they are doing is legal, and many of them do pay income tax. | |||
"By the letter of the law is the Dorchester hotel in London is a brothel? I know that they often have multiple sex workers on site at one time...? " Hotels tend to work differently in the eyes of the law, with each room being treated as a separate residence. However, common sense tends to apply; in that instance, unless it was proven that the hotel was complicit, it’s unlikely any action would be taken. | |||
| |||
"Didn't think it was illegal to pay for sex. I thought it was the soliciting that was illegal." It’s all in the OP. | |||
"Prodominately it’s a male power thing over women. Not everyindividual situations, but taken as a whole and viewed in totality. It’s about women being objects that men can buy and sell. Subconsciously this devalues women and means they are never equal to men. Sometimes you have to accept that what you do as an individual isn’t actually that bad. But collectively the impact of lots of people doing, results in a negative impact on society. At the very least subconsciously, if not overtly. No one wants to be the bad person, so we adjust our internal self talk to justify our actions. It protects our ego and sence of self. Ultimately there is a negative psychological impact of having sex with random people, that more than likely you don’t want to have sex with them, over an extended period of time. This is impact is enhanced by the cultural norms and values society places on sex. In that it’s an intimate thing between two people in love. Just my 2p " What about male escorts? | |||
| |||
"Prodominately it’s a male power thing over women. Not everyindividual situations, but taken as a whole and viewed in totality. It’s about women being objects that men can buy and sell. Subconsciously this devalues women and means they are never equal to men. Sometimes you have to accept that what you do as an individual isn’t actually that bad. But collectively the impact of lots of people doing, results in a negative impact on society. At the very least subconsciously, if not overtly. No one wants to be the bad person, so we adjust our internal self talk to justify our actions. It protects our ego and sence of self. Ultimately there is a negative psychological impact of having sex with random people, that more than likely you don’t want to have sex with them, over an extended period of time. This is impact is enhanced by the cultural norms and values society places on sex. In that it’s an intimate thing between two people in love. Just my 2p What about male escorts?" I wonder if there is a power element there too, without wishing to over-generalise. I disagree about the negative psychological and social impact or at least, I would argue that it is entirely created by cultural norms and values rather than just enhanced by those things. | |||
| |||
 | |||
"I'd love to work in a message parlour. Sounds great "if u love sex and get paid how amazing is that!! | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
It's a complicated issue | |||
| |||
| |||
"Massive difference between street girls and "message parlours" the latter have the best job ever!!!" I don’t think you have the first clue about the reality of the work a lot of people do. Seeing endless old men who reek of piss and want pumped with a strap-on. It’s not one long delightful fuck-fest. . "The strange thing with our law is that prositutes and escorts cannot solicit sex on the streets but are allowed online. Escorts have to pay the tax man too. So it’s sort of legal but only if they solicit online. I found this out on the sex education on channel 4 show a few years ago. " It’s all in the OP, dude. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"I am pro the idea of legitimised, regulated sex work. Absolutely. " | |||
"I'm a sex worker (I fuck for free here but I'm a Dominatrix) and know plenty of happy hookers. It's not all doom and gloom as the media would have us believe. The main concern most have is safety. Brothels should be legalised, adopt the New Zealand model, not the Scandinavian one. My dream is to be Cynthia Payne " | |||
"Massive difference between street girls and "message parlours" the latter have the best job ever!!! I don’t think you have the first clue about the reality of the work a lot of people do. Seeing endless old men who reek of piss and want pumped with a strap-on. It’s not one long delightful fuck-fest. . The strange thing with our law is that prositutes and escorts cannot solicit sex on the streets but are allowed online. Escorts have to pay the tax man too. So it’s sort of legal but only if they solicit online. I found this out on the sex education on channel 4 show a few years ago. It’s all in the OP, dude." of course I do. It's the job they choose. Street girls however need to work mostly for habits | |||
"Massive difference between street girls and "message parlours" the latter have the best job ever!!! I don’t think you have the first clue about the reality of the work a lot of people do. Seeing endless old men who reek of piss and want pumped with a strap-on. It’s not one long delightful fuck-fest. . The strange thing with our law is that prositutes and escorts cannot solicit sex on the streets but are allowed online. Escorts have to pay the tax man too. So it’s sort of legal but only if they solicit online. I found this out on the sex education on channel 4 show a few years ago. It’s all in the OP, dude.of course I do. It's the job they choose. Street girls however need to work mostly for habits " Still waiting | |||
"There is a proper website called adult work that specialises in escorts. It is not something I would use, as I would rather go without than pay for sex, but one of my customers uses it quite often, he told me, some will entertain from their own home and others use specific hotels, but he has said, they are all clean, regularly checked, insist on protection in some cases even for oral sex. At the end of the day, it is down to each individual persons choice to use a service like that, and, unlike the true street workers, these escorts can earn over £700 a day, charging anywhere from £80-£250 an hour" There are lots of websites I believe. | |||
| |||
| |||
"As an ex sex worker. I worked as an escort and also in a brothel (a massage parlour) I always said when I stopped enjoying what I did, I'd stop. That's exactly what I did. I tried going back to it and I didn't enjoy it at all so I left and never went back. Not even to get my things. I can't explain why I enjoyed it. Or what I stopped enjoying, but there was only very occasional client that I didn't want to see (who I didn't when I was an 'independant' escort - hiring apartments or hotel rooms rather then being in a brothel) But I did enjoy it. There are times I miss the rush, the arousal, the times when I really enjoyed it. " good money!!! X | |||
"of course I do. It's the job they choose. Street girls however need to work mostly for habits" For some it’s the job they choose. Ladyjayne has pointed out that she enjoyed it and clearly had more freedom of choice, being able to stop working when she didn’t like it any more. But you cannot assume that every sex worker is in the same position. You can’t just say, “Well, they work in this sort of environment so they must love it.” Don’t be so naive. Don’t be so vulgar. | |||
| |||
| |||
"Honestly there is no right answer.... But How can the government tell a person what to do with their body? That’s my only point...."
Why do they want to limit prostitution? Is it to protect the people doing it or to control them? | |||
"Honestly there is no right answer.... But How can the government tell a person what to do with their body? That’s my only point....
Why do they want to limit prostitution? Is it to protect the people doing it or to control them?"That is the 500 pound elephant in the room... Government is a separation of church and state... Each citizen has a right to do with thier body as they choose.... If a person wants to trade sex for food... that is not a crime... If a person trades sex for money.... that is a crime.... In each country I have lived and visited it’s been very eye opening.... The Japanese have been the astonishing.... for a culture so reserved and respectful.. I was shocked to find out they have sex surrogates for their disabled citizens. It’s all legal and looked upon as a noble profession... in the western world it would be looked upon as unethical... | |||
| |||
| |||
"Honestly there is no right answer.... But How can the government tell a person what to do with their body? That’s my only point....
Why do they want to limit prostitution? Is it to protect the people doing it or to control them?
That is the 500 pound elephant in the room...
Government is a separation of church and state...
Each citizen has a right to do with thier body as they choose....
If a person wants to trade sex for food... that is not a crime...
If a person trades sex for money.... that is a crime....
In each country I have lived and visited it’s been very eye opening....
The Japanese have been the astonishing.... for a culture so reserved and respectful.. I was shocked to find out they have sex surrogates for their disabled citizens. It’s all legal and looked upon as a noble profession... in the western world it would be looked upon as unethical..."You seem to have missed the fact that selling your body for sex is not against the law here. There is no elephant in the room. Chuntering on about the separation of church and state is pointless, because you’re arguing against something that isn’t the case. | |||
"A man and a woman arrange a meet. One of them gives the other a lift home, who then gives them "petrol money" given the meet was solely for sex, have they paid for sex?" No, they’ve paid for petrol. "A couple arrange a meet and one half sends the other a train ticket to meet. Have they paid for sex?" No, they’ve paid for travel. "A woman gets pregnant after sex and seeks maintenance for the child from the father. Is he in effect paying for sex?" No, he’s paying to support a child. "A couple are married, he works, she doesn't. Is he paying for sex?" No, they’re living on shared means. "A couple are married. The husband buys his wife flowers in the hope of getting sex. Has he paid for sex?" No, he’s paid for flowers. "A man takes a woman on a date. He buys flowers, a meal, some drinks and cinema tickets hoping to get his leg over. Has he paid for sex?" No, he’s paid for a date. "Before you can consider if it is right or wrong to pay for sex, you have to consider exactly what paying for sex is." Paying for sex is paying for sex. It’s not any of the things you have described. I’m not entirely sure how or why someone would have this much difficulty with the idea. In all of the above, the sex would be achievable without money, because both parties want to have sex with each other. With prostitution, one party will only have sex with the other in direct exchange for cash. | |||
| |||
"For me it's not a problem. I could go off, pay my money, and fulfill a fantasy of fucking a beautiful young woman. Once in a while it would certainly be a lovely outlet. But I suspect it's a very different story for the sex worker. Meaningless sexual encounter after meaningless sexual encounter. Maybe never once their fantasy explored. Always just a service. An endless queue of men fucking them. Big fat hairy men. Skinny bald nervous men. Pathetic men. Jerks. And nice guys too. By standing in that queue you are forming part of the sexual traffic that's going to run through that woman's body. It's actually deeply troubling when you begin to truly behold what you are contributing to." This is my problem with it. The women may enjoy the money but there's no way they enjoy the work and I am sure it damages them irreparably. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"For me it's not a problem. I could go off, pay my money, and fulfill a fantasy of fucking a beautiful young woman. Once in a while it would certainly be a lovely outlet. But I suspect it's a very different story for the sex worker. Meaningless sexual encounter after meaningless sexual encounter. Maybe never once their fantasy explored. Always just a service. An endless queue of men fucking them. Big fat hairy men. Skinny bald nervous men. Pathetic men. Jerks. And nice guys too. By standing in that queue you are forming part of the sexual traffic that's going to run through that woman's body. It's actually deeply troubling when you begin to truly behold what you are contributing to. This is my problem with it. The women may enjoy the money but there's no way they enjoy the work and I am sure it damages them irreparably. " Sorry, am I damaged? Or am I (and several friends I am still in contact with) lying? Ignorable? I enjoyed doing it for 8 years. I wasn't forced, I'm certainly not damaged by that time. | |||
 | |||
"Aren’t we all paying for sex in way? If we go to a club there’s a good possibility that if we wish we will have sex,if we meet at hotels we pay accommodation to have sex? You pay for new lingerie to wear for sexual reasons so it’s case of it’s all sex related and that’s where the money is,for the girls who work in brothels maybe they feel safer or some not having a choice? It varies and some girls are independent and make a hell of a lot of money! Just depends on how you want to live your life and what matters to you most." Non of the scenarios above guarantee you sex, it just puts you in a better chance of it. Say you book a hotel for a meet, lady arrives, you go to the room, the lady changes her mind for whatever reason, so no sex even though you paid for a room. So no it's not the same as a negotiation and agreement for services provided by a sex worker. | |||
| |||
"I am against prostitution, greedy pimps snaring innocent females into doing it. Often plying them with drugs. More should be done to stop men pimping females out x" Ermmm it’s the oldest profession and I’ve met some girls to choose to become prostitutes as they believe their boyfriends are getting it for free when they can make money.. there are other scenarios too in which women are sometimes forced into prostitution too.. Private eye looks at all sides of the story  | |||
"For me it's not a problem. I could go off, pay my money, and fulfill a fantasy of fucking a beautiful young woman. Once in a while it would certainly be a lovely outlet. But I suspect it's a very different story for the sex worker. Meaningless sexual encounter after meaningless sexual encounter. Maybe never once their fantasy explored. Always just a service. An endless queue of men fucking them. Big fat hairy men. Skinny bald nervous men. Pathetic men. Jerks. And nice guys too. By standing in that queue you are forming part of the sexual traffic that's going to run through that woman's body. It's actually deeply troubling when you begin to truly behold what you are contributing to. This is my problem with it. The women may enjoy the money but there's no way they enjoy the work and I am sure it damages them irreparably. Sorry, am I damaged? Or am I (and several friends I am still in contact with) lying? Ignorable? I enjoyed doing it for 8 years. I wasn't forced, I'm certainly not damaged by that time." It’s clearly wrong to suggest that every person who has engaged in the work has the same experience. It sounds like you attracted a tolerable/enjoyable client base, and/or were in a position to turn down clients you wouldn’t enjoy seeing. Which is good, but surely not universal. | |||
"For me it's not a problem. I could go off, pay my money, and fulfill a fantasy of fucking a beautiful young woman. Once in a while it would certainly be a lovely outlet. But I suspect it's a very different story for the sex worker. Meaningless sexual encounter after meaningless sexual encounter. Maybe never once their fantasy explored. Always just a service. An endless queue of men fucking them. Big fat hairy men. Skinny bald nervous men. Pathetic men. Jerks. And nice guys too. By standing in that queue you are forming part of the sexual traffic that's going to run through that woman's body. It's actually deeply troubling when you begin to truly behold what you are contributing to. This is my problem with it. The women may enjoy the money but there's no way they enjoy the work and I am sure it damages them irreparably. Sorry, am I damaged? Or am I (and several friends I am still in contact with) lying? Ignorable? I enjoyed doing it for 8 years. I wasn't forced, I'm certainly not damaged by that time. It’s clearly wrong to suggest that every person who has engaged in the work has the same experience. It sounds like you attracted a tolerable/enjoyable client base, and/or were in a position to turn down clients you wouldn’t enjoy seeing. Which is good, but surely not universal." ‘Louis and the brothel’ is a really good documentary (made in 2003 however) and the women explain why they do what they do, and a fair few just have a really high sex drive and thoroughly enjoy themselves. Good points from both sides though however | |||
"I am against prostitution, greedy pimps snaring innocent females into doing it. Often plying them with drugs. More should be done to stop men pimping females out x" Yeah, I think ideally it would be legal to sell sex for an individual, but illegal to profit from someone else selling sex. How that would work practically is another matter, of course. | |||
"Yeah, I think ideally it would be legal to sell sex for an individual," It is. "but illegal to profit from someone else selling sex." It is. "How that would work practically is another matter, of course. " Please see current UK prostitution laws. | |||
"As a man I pay for sex one way or another "Please read the OP. | |||
"Yeah, I think ideally it would be legal to sell sex for an individual, It is. but illegal to profit from someone else selling sex. It is. How that would work practically is another matter, of course. Please see current UK prostitution laws." I was really thinking of a scenario in which buying sex from an individual is also legalised and prostitution can operate as an open and legitimate business for individuals, but without pimps or "managers". | |||
"My problem with paying for sex from a customers point of view, I wouldn't like the idea that someone was only shagging me for some coin in their purse. I'd love to cash in on all my pay me for sex offers but I couldn't physically bring myself to sleep with anyone unless I was absolutely attracted to them and then I couldn't take money for sex. I'd allow them to get me a scotch egg or a wispa but not cold hard cash. " Got a lorry's worth of scotch eggs and Wispas here. When dya wanna do the exchange?
G | |||
| |||
| |||
"It’s clearly wrong to suggest that every person who has engaged in the work has the same experience. It sounds like you attracted a tolerable/enjoyable client base, and/or were in a position to turn down clients you wouldn’t enjoy seeing. Which is good, but surely not universal." I worked in a brothel in Manchester, the police had, at that time, a blind eye policy, as long as they allowed police checks, didn't allow drug use and allowed MASH access to check the girls health and well being. Like most brothels I wasn't in a position to say no to a client, you were just told which room you were going into next, but only once or twice in my life was it an issue... Once was a hygene issue (which was easily solved by forcing him into the shower), the other someone who knew my boyfriend and had only come in to fuck me because of that... That was weird | |||
"I am against prostitution, greedy pimps snaring innocent females into doing it. Often plying them with drugs. More should be done to stop men pimping females out x" Never had a pimp or taken any illegal drugs. But I have sold my body for sex on several occasions, sometimes to the most eligible handsome men and we all had a great time. | |||
"I was really thinking of a scenario in which buying sex from an individual is also legalised and prostitution can operate as an open and legitimate business for individuals, but without pimps or "managers". " Buying sex from an individual is legal. Many individuals do make a legitimate income, and operate as self-employed, paying their taxes and even pensions, and without pimps or managers. I’m at a loss as to what you’re suggesting that doesn’t already exist. | |||
| |||
"I was really thinking of a scenario in which buying sex from an individual is also legalised and prostitution can operate as an open and legitimate business for individuals, but without pimps or "managers". Buying sex from an individual is legal. Many individuals do make a legitimate income, and operate as self-employed, paying their taxes and even pensions, and without pimps or managers. I’m at a loss as to what you’re suggesting that doesn’t already exist." I actually thought the laws on buying sex were still a lot stricter than they actually are, so it appears you are correct that there is not much I would change. A shame you apparently can't be correct without also being weirdly aggressive in your tone, but one can't have everything. | |||
"A shame you apparently can't be correct without also being weirdly aggressive in your tone, but one can't have everything. " I’m sorry, but how am I being aggressive? | |||
"For me it's not a problem. I could go off, pay my money, and fulfill a fantasy of fucking a beautiful young woman. Once in a while it would certainly be a lovely outlet. But I suspect it's a very different story for the sex worker. Meaningless sexual encounter after meaningless sexual encounter. Maybe never once their fantasy explored. Always just a service. An endless queue of men fucking them. Big fat hairy men. Skinny bald nervous men. Pathetic men. Jerks. And nice guys too. By standing in that queue you are forming part of the sexual traffic that's going to run through that woman's body. It's actually deeply troubling when you begin to truly behold what you are contributing to. This is my problem with it. The women may enjoy the money but there's no way they enjoy the work and I am sure it damages them irreparably. Sorry, am I damaged? Or am I (and several friends I am still in contact with) lying? Ignorable? I enjoyed doing it for 8 years. I wasn't forced, I'm certainly not damaged by that time." You’re in the 2% though... | |||
"People should have the absolute rights to do whatever they wish to, with their own body and money. As such, exchanging bodily access for rewards should in all forms be completely legal, should full consent and standard legal barriers not be present." Well, yes and no. There’s not a vast amount wrong with the law as it stands. You’re clearly, from this and the rest of your post, strongly in support of the rights of the individual and the duty of the government to support and protect them. However, this neglects the fact that every individual is different and, collectively, as a society, we need support and protection from some things. So I would not agree that everything about sex work should be legalised. I think it is right and fit and proper that, in a civilised society, sex workers do not operate on the streets, and those seeking their services do not go kerb crawling. The laws, as they stand, are also designed to protect sex workers from pimps; their earnings should be their own. It’s arguably really only the laws on brothels that needs revision. | |||
"If we were to disregard the various problems linked to the reality of prostitution; the drug addiction, the human trafficking, the violence, and just focus on the act of exchanging money for sex, do you think there is something intrinsically, ethically wrong with that? Can you explain why? Are you okay with it? Why? And, if you’re okay with it as a basic concept, do you object to it in the real world, because it can’t exist without the associated difficulties? Personally, I see nothing wrong with it. I don’t see much difference between paying for sex and paying for a hot stone massage. (And before anyone gets the wrong end of that stick, I don’t see anything sexual about getting a professional massage.) I think the law in the UK fails to protect anyone working as a prostitute, their customers, or the public at large. The legal definition of a brothel removes the potential for a safe working environment for people working as prostitutes. Interpreted in the most pedantic way, it can also make it hard for a person’s business to be economically viable. It’s not a profession that’s going to go away no matter how much you make life difficult. So why not offer better protection. Legalise licensed brothels, subject to independent inspection. That means safer working environments, and peace of mind for customers. (Btw, for anyone who is unclear; the exchange of money for sex is not illegal in the UK. Soliciting for business on the street is illegal. Kerb-crawling is illegal. Working in, running, or making money from brothels is illegal. A brothel is legally defined as any place used by two or more women for their business. So, even if it’s only one ‘business’ room, and they take turns to use it to keep costs down, it’s technically a brothel.) “Men always pay for it lol,” and similar jokes will be looked down upon with appropriate disdain.
So... what do you think?"I'm not bothered by it, and don't see why it shouldn't be legalised, it's the oldest profession ever, and I will probably get slated for this but I think all women are "prostitutes" in life they just don't actually get cash when sleeping /having sex with someone.. But get it in other ways.. Lol Cue the "telling off" Hahaha.. | |||
"For me it's not a problem. I could go off, pay my money, and fulfill a fantasy of fucking a beautiful young woman. Once in a while it would certainly be a lovely outlet. But I suspect it's a very different story for the sex worker. Meaningless sexual encounter after meaningless sexual encounter. Maybe never once their fantasy explored. Always just a service. An endless queue of men fucking them. Big fat hairy men. Skinny bald nervous men. Pathetic men. Jerks. And nice guys too. By standing in that queue you are forming part of the sexual traffic that's going to run through that woman's body. It's actually deeply troubling when you begin to truly behold what you are contributing to. This is my problem with it. The women may enjoy the money but there's no way they enjoy the work and I am sure it damages them irreparably. Sorry, am I damaged? Or am I (and several friends I am still in contact with) lying? Ignorable? I enjoyed doing it for 8 years. I wasn't forced, I'm certainly not damaged by that time. You’re in the 2% though..." The other point I was trying to make was about recognising the impact of many people doing the same thing. It's a mindset that's foreign to almost all humans, like not seeing how driving your car contributes to traffic jams. I would hazard a guess that out of 100 men 80 would probably be up for fucking a beautiful young woman. Stick those 100 men in a queue outside her bedroom door and I suspect only about 10 or 20 would be down for it before the rest found it distasteful... that they were contributing to some form of abuse. Escorting only works by guys pretending they're one of a few. Sometimes they are. But most times I suspect guys would freak if they knew the size of the queue they were in | |||
"I'm not bothered by it, and don't see why it shouldn't be legalised, it's the oldest profession ever, and I will probably get slated for this but I think all women are "prostitutes" in life they just don't actually get cash when sleeping /having sex with someone.. But get it in other ways.. Lol Cue the "telling off" Hahaha.. " Out of interest, did you read all of the OP that you quoted? You seem to be saying that something which is legal should be legalised. Regarding your comment about all women being prostitutes; that would mean you think that all women (and, by definition, you) only have sex with others in order to materially gain something from them. You’re saying that women don’t have sex because they want to, or because they like the act and the like the other person. That they either have no desire to have sex for pleasure, or that the desire to have sex is surpassed by the desire to have material things. The meets that I’ve had from here; did they only have sex with me for a cup of coffee, or a box of Maltesers? | |||
"How can one feel reassured that the sex worker one is wanting to engage with is not oppressed? If you or people you know have engaged with sex workers did you or how do you know they did due diligence? Would that not be a concern?" Anyone? | |||
"How can one feel reassured that the sex worker one is wanting to engage with is not oppressed? If you or people you know have engaged with sex workers did you or how do you know they did due diligence? Would that not be a concern? Anyone?" There are some telltale signs. On websites like AdultWork and VivaStreet, escorts who remain in a city for a long time are more likely to be willingly working in the industry. They may travel to other areas for work, but usually only for the duration of an event. Escorts whose profiles only appear in an area for a few days to a few weeks at a time are more likely to be victims of trafficking. Those who speak English well are more likely willing. Those who barely speak a word, less likely. Even the way their profiles are written are an indicator, or whether they use the review systems on the site. If all that fails, I’d suggest the quality of their work would be the final indicator. It’s also the time that the customer is least likely to care (he’s handed over his money and wants to get his rocks off) or act compassionately rather than angrily, further victimising the worker. None of this is an exact science, obviously, and there’s also a clear question mark over how many punters have that invested an interest or care enough to pay attention. | |||
"How can one feel reassured that the sex worker one is wanting to engage with is not oppressed? If you or people you know have engaged with sex workers did you or how do you know they did due diligence? Would that not be a concern? Anyone? There are some telltale signs. On websites like AdultWork and VivaStreet, escorts who remain in a city for a long time are more likely to be willingly working in the industry. They may travel to other areas for work, but usually only for the duration of an event. Escorts whose profiles only appear in an area for a few days to a few weeks at a time are more likely to be victims of trafficking. Those who speak English well are more likely willing. Those who barely speak a word, less likely. Even the way their profiles are written are an indicator, or whether they use the review systems on the site. If all that fails, I’d suggest the quality of their work would be the final indicator. It’s also the time that the customer is least likely to care (he’s handed over his money and wants to get his rocks off) or act compassionately rather than angrily, further victimising the worker. None of this is an exact science, obviously, and there’s also a clear question mark over how many punters have that invested an interest or care enough to pay attention." | |||
"How can one feel reassured that the sex worker one is wanting to engage with is not oppressed? If you or people you know have engaged with sex workers did you or how do you know they did due diligence? Would that not be a concern? Anyone? There are some telltale signs. On websites like AdultWork and VivaStreet, escorts who remain in a city for a long time are more likely to be willingly working in the industry. They may travel to other areas for work, but usually only for the duration of an event. Escorts whose profiles only appear in an area for a few days to a few weeks at a time are more likely to be victims of trafficking. Those who speak English well are more likely willing. Those who barely speak a word, less likely. Even the way their profiles are written are an indicator, or whether they use the review systems on the site. If all that fails, I’d suggest the quality of their work would be the final indicator. It’s also the time that the customer is least likely to care (he’s handed over his money and wants to get his rocks off) or act compassionately rather than angrily, further victimising the worker. None of this is an exact science, obviously, and there’s also a clear question mark over how many punters have that invested an interest or care enough to pay attention." How prevalent is the use of sex workers by women? | |||
"How can one feel reassured that the sex worker one is wanting to engage with is not oppressed? If you or people you know have engaged with sex workers did you or how do you know they did due diligence? Would that not be a concern? Anyone?" She had her own website. We talked to her afterwards and she was very open about it being her own business and she did it because she enjoyed it. | |||
"How can one feel reassured that the sex worker one is wanting to engage with is not oppressed? If you or people you know have engaged with sex workers did you or how do you know they did due diligence? Would that not be a concern? Anyone? There are some telltale signs. On websites like AdultWork and VivaStreet, escorts who remain in a city for a long time are more likely to be willingly working in the industry. They may travel to other areas for work, but usually only for the duration of an event. Escorts whose profiles only appear in an area for a few days to a few weeks at a time are more likely to be victims of trafficking. Those who speak English well are more likely willing. Those who barely speak a word, less likely. Even the way their profiles are written are an indicator, or whether they use the review systems on the site. If all that fails, I’d suggest the quality of their work would be the final indicator. It’s also the time that the customer is least likely to care (he’s handed over his money and wants to get his rocks off) or act compassionately rather than angrily, further victimising the worker. None of this is an exact science, obviously, and there’s also a clear question mark over how many punters have that invested an interest or care enough to pay attention. How prevalent is the use of sex workers by women? " I’m guessing, a little, bit with some inside info from a close friend : ex male escort, the ladies are even more professional - as in higher profile jobs and so more affluent. But generally this was true for Male clients too. | |||
"How can one feel reassured that the sex worker one is wanting to engage with is not oppressed? If you or people you know have engaged with sex workers did you or how do you know they did due diligence? Would that not be a concern? Anyone? She had her own website. We talked to her afterwards and she was very open about it being her own business and she did it because she enjoyed it. " That’s good. But it reads as after the event. | |||
"How can one feel reassured that the sex worker one is wanting to engage with is not oppressed? If you or people you know have engaged with sex workers did you or how do you know they did due diligence? Would that not be a concern? Anyone? She had her own website. We talked to her afterwards and she was very open about it being her own business and she did it because she enjoyed it. That’s good. But it reads as after the event. " We knew all this before we met her. I meant the fact we talked to her afterwards as additional confirmation face to face. | |||
"How can one feel reassured that the sex worker one is wanting to engage with is not oppressed? If you or people you know have engaged with sex workers did you or how do you know they did due diligence? Would that not be a concern? Anyone? She had her own website. We talked to her afterwards and she was very open about it being her own business and she did it because she enjoyed it. That’s good. But it reads as after the event. We knew all this before we met her. I meant the fact we talked to her afterwards as additional confirmation face to face. " Gotcha  | |||
