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Tom Cruise and separating the art from the artist
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I was having a discussion with someone about Tom Cruise and how he's a great performer, but a shit person for his religious beliefs. They disagree with the notion of separating the art from the artist. I don't understand why people feel like they can't enjoy something because of an entertainer's private life.
I like Tom Cruise and whenever I'm watching one of his films I'm able to forget about that part of his life because it's completely separate from his work. I have no opinion on his beliefs because I know next to nothing about it and I really don't care to know because it isn't important to me. I like his films and that's all that matters, so I don't understand why people let his private life affect their enjoyment of his professional life. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think hes great dont give a toss about his beliefs"
Exactly. He's a great actor who is dedicated at what he does, Mission Impossible is proof of that. His personal beliefs should never even enter the conversation when it comes to talking about his films, but people always bring Scientology up and I really don't know why. |
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I know very little about the private lives of celebrities so my enjoyment of performances isn't affected too much by my personal opinion of them. I sometimes see them on chat shows and warm to them or otherwise but I'm aware I'm not seeing the real them. |
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By *andonmessMan
over a year ago
A world all of his own |
" but a shit person for his religious beliefs.
I have no opinion on his beliefs because I know next to nothing about it and I really don't care to know because it isn't important to me."
Erm, contradiction much? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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" but a shit person for his religious beliefs.
I have no opinion on his beliefs because I know next to nothing about it and I really don't care to know because it isn't important to me.
Erm, contradiction much?"
No. I don't think he's a shit person and I know enough about his religion, but not a lot. I don't see where I've contradicted myself. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's interesting that Michael Jackson and Wagner seem to be utterly acceptable artists for people to listen too. Yet one was a drugged up paedophile who invited boys to his private fairground, shared a bed with them, and then paid off the parents to never discusses it again, and the other was a Proto-Nazi. And there's probably some artists you or I really like who've got away with stuff we'll never know about.
But there are double standards and morality is imperfect, yet I still avoid Gary Glitter and Lost Prophets records.
In conclusion. I dunno and it's a mess.
Hope that helps. x |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"He ain't Jack Reacher  "
Everytime I try to picture the writer's idea of Jack Reacher, I imagine a 6'5 blonde haired American football player with tree trunks for arms, cauliflower ear and a misshaped head. Basically the dumb jock bully from every American high school film. It pulls me out of the story because I don't know many people who have that look so it pulls me out of the story, so I prefer Tom Cruise's take on the character.
It's why I like the Orphan X series. Evan Smoak is an everyday guy who you'd pass on the street, not some roided up beefcake. I hope no one takes offense to that.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It's interesting that Michael Jackson and Wagner seem to be utterly acceptable artists for people to listen too. Yet one was a drugged up paedophile who invited boys to his private fairground, shared a bed with them, and then paid off the parents to never discusses it again, and the other was a Proto-Nazi. And there's probably some artists you or I really like who've got away with stuff we'll never know about.
But there are double standards and morality is imperfect, yet I still avoid Gary Glitter and Lost Prophets records.
In conclusion. I dunno and it's a mess.
Hope that helps. x"
That's a very good point about Michael Jackson. Despite everything he did, he's still a celebrated musician to some. Yeah, he was good, but it doesn't excuse the fact he was a paedophile.
Whereas with Tom Cruise, he hasn't done anything wrong per se, but people view joining what they'd call a crazy cult as a terrible thing.
And yeah I'm actually with you on Lost Prophets. I can't listen to their music without feeling uneasy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Does anyone actually know about his religion or just what the papers say? I like some of his films.
Pretty much the same as the hate for Jordan or any other celeb. We don't really know them. |
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It always amazes me that no one ever mentions Bill Wyman of the Rolling Stones.
He has never denied grooming a 13 year old and marrying her at 16 (think he was in his 50s then).
The newspapers at the time were all like "Whay hey Bill, get in there".
And it's never mentioned or been challenged since.
The girl in question ended up having a breakdown and eating disorders.
But she was just a girl, so that's fine and he's rock royalty..
Now if he'd been into 13 year old boys I doubt he'd be doing another stadium tour... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It always amazes me that no one ever mentions Bill Wyman of the Rolling Stones.
He has never denied grooming a 13 year old and marrying her at 16 (think he was in his 50s then).
The newspapers at the time were all like "Whay hey Bill, get in there".
And it's never mentioned or been challenged since.
The girl in question ended up having a breakdown and eating disorders.
But she was just a girl, so that's fine and he's rock royalty..
Now if he'd been into 13 year old boys I doubt he'd be doing another stadium tour..."
Wait, what? I never knew that. Before my time that one was. Pretty disgusting and ridiculous that it can happen without anyone batting an eyelid. What was the response back then? I noticed it happened in the 80's. If it was now he'd probably get collared for it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It always amazes me that no one ever mentions Bill Wyman of the Rolling Stones.
He has never denied grooming a 13 year old and marrying her at 16 (think he was in his 50s then).
The newspapers at the time were all like "Whay hey Bill, get in there".
And it's never mentioned or been challenged since.
The girl in question ended up having a breakdown and eating disorders.
But she was just a girl, so that's fine and he's rock royalty..
Now if he'd been into 13 year old boys I doubt he'd be doing another stadium tour..."
Mandy Smith. I remember. Good point. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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i have zero interest in anyone’s private life be it some one famous for whatever reason or joe public, why the glossy mags find that some one has changed their hair style or lost weight or gained weight front page news escapes me completely.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I know very little about the private lives of celebrities so my enjoyment of performances isn't affected too much by my personal opinion of them. I sometimes see them on chat shows and warm to them or otherwise but I'm aware I'm not seeing the real them."
This for me too |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It’s nothing new. Back in the 30’s and 40’s the major film producing companies wrote their own back stories for stars, choose who they would be seen out and about dating (this was used a lot to cover up bi-sexuality amongst their biggest male movie stars) and just fabricated lies to make their stars more appealing to the public and to cover up dodgy goings on/pasts.
So long as they don’t do anything illegal i don’t really care about what a famous person does, i have my own woes. I watch films to escape those woes.
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"I was having a discussion with someone about Tom Cruise and how he's a great performer, but a shit person for his religious beliefs. They disagree with the notion of separating the art from the artist. I don't understand why people feel like they can't enjoy something because of an entertainer's private life.
I like Tom Cruise and whenever I'm watching one of his films I'm able to forget about that part of his life because it's completely separate from his work. I have no opinion on his beliefs because I know next to nothing about it and I really don't care to know because it isn't important to me. I like his films and that's all that matters, so I don't understand why people let his private life affect their enjoyment of his professional life."
You clearly do have an opinion on his beliefs because you think he is a shit person for having them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I can easily say, Jamie Oliver cooks dishes and has the same way of approaching food as I do. Some of his dishes inspire me to cook that or try it that way.
But what an absolute toser.
Wayne Rooney in his prime (two seasons  ) at United. People didn’t get how hard it was for me to clap when he scored. But I saw him do some wonderful football, and he brought strength to a team. But what a f’in dick.
Some people can’t see past someone’s personality, and whatever they do they get judged because of a biased view.
It’s the opposite also, if I like someone a lot, they can’t do any wrong, right? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It always amazes me that no one ever mentions Bill Wyman of the Rolling Stones.
He has never denied grooming"
Yep. That's a great point.
Not sue your point about reversing the sexes though, if a 50 year old female singer had groomed a 15 year old boy, I think there would be far less outrage. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Cant stand the man.
Or his movies. Hes smug and arrogant and that comes across to me in his films. Nothing to do with what he believes in I just dont like him and that ruines the enjoyment of what he does.
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" but a shit person for his religious beliefs.
I have no opinion on his beliefs because I know next to nothing about it and I really don't care to know because it isn't important to me.
Erm, contradiction much?
No. I don't think he's a shit person and I know enough about his religion, but not a lot. I don't see where I've contradicted myself. "
Wait..... Do you think he is a shit person or not because you say you do in your OP but then you ding on your reply here?!
You also say you know next to nothing about scientology but suddenly you know enough.....  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" but a shit person for his religious beliefs"
I don't think anyone is a shit person for getting duped. He was targeted at a pretty young age and their methods are essentially "Brian washing". Watch the Louis Theroux doc and you'll see how difficult they can make you're life unless you are cooperative.
It is a cult, a powerful one. I'm sure he thinks he's doing something good though and that's not how I define a shit person. |
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" but a shit person for his religious beliefs
I don't think anyone is a shit person for getting duped. He was targeted at a pretty young age and their methods are essentially "Brian washing". Watch the Louis Theroux doc and you'll see how difficult they can make you're life unless you are cooperative.
It is a cult, a powerful one. I'm sure he thinks he's doing something good though and that's not how I define a shit person. "
Do they was any Brian or a specific one?! Brian blessed perhaps  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" but a shit person for his religious beliefs
I don't think anyone is a shit person for getting duped. He was targeted at a pretty young age and their methods are essentially "Brian washing". Watch the Louis Theroux doc and you'll see how difficult they can make you're life unless you are cooperative.
It is a cult, a powerful one. I'm sure he thinks he's doing something good though and that's not how I define a shit person.
Do they was any Brian or a specific one?! Brian blessed perhaps "
Brian Washed.
Like Blessed only cleaner.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm in awe. So many forumites are close personal friends with celebs. "
LOL. Fair point well made, like I said there's bound to be loads we don't know about, and it's total double standards. Yet I just can't listen to some of these artists. |
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By *r_PinkMan
over a year ago
london stratford |
"I was having a discussion with someone about Tom Cruise and how he's a great performer, but a shit person for his religious beliefs. They disagree with the notion of separating the art from the artist. I don't understand why people feel like they can't enjoy something because of an entertainer's private life.
I like Tom Cruise and whenever I'm watching one of his films I'm able to forget about that part of his life because it's completely separate from his work. I have no opinion on his beliefs because I know next to nothing about it and I really don't care to know because it isn't important to me. I like his films and that's all that matters, so I don't understand why people let his private life affect their enjoyment of his professional life."
It was the same with me and Charlton Heston.
LOVE the Planet of the apes, can watch it again and again.
BUT hated his political views and would never want to sit down and meet the real him. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I like the fact Tom Cruise does a lot of his own stunts and the dedication and bravery that involves. He's clearly a bit of a dickhead but to be fair, I enjoy a lot of films that he's starred in over the years. Minority Report, Top Gun and Rain Man especially. Couldn't care less about his religious beliefs even if it's not something I agree with. |
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"I was having a discussion with someone about Tom Cruise and how he's a great performer, but a shit person for his religious beliefs. They disagree with the notion of separating the art from the artist. I don't understand why people feel like they can't enjoy something because of an entertainer's private life
I like Tom Cruise and whenever I'm watching one of his films I'm able to forget about that part of his life because it's completely separate from his work. I have no opinion on his beliefs because I know next to nothing about it and I really don't care to know because it isn't important to me. I like his films and that's all that matters, so I don't understand why people let his private life affect their enjoyment of his professional life."
You wouldn’t be saying that if the artist in question wasGary Glitter |
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As far as the Scientology goes, I really do get the feeling that Hubbard died just before he could announce that it was all a swizz. Everything about it screams " we just made this shit up one day when we were stoned and then someone dared us to go public with it to highlight how some people are desperate to believe in something".
I don't like Cruises early films though, prior to his conversion. So its done him SOME good. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I was having a discussion with someone about Tom Cruise and how he's a great performer, but a shit person for his religious beliefs. They disagree with the notion of separating the art from the artist. I don't understand why people feel like they can't enjoy something because of an entertainer's private life.
I like Tom Cruise and whenever I'm watching one of his films I'm able to forget about that part of his life because it's completely separate from his work. I have no opinion on his beliefs because I know next to nothing about it and I really don't care to know because it isn't important to me. I like his films and that's all that matters, so I don't understand why people let his private life affect their enjoyment of his professional life.
You clearly do have an opinion on his beliefs because you think he is a shit person for having them. "
The other person said that. Maybe if you read it properly you'd see that I was defending him. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I like him as an actor. As for scientology....well lol. They probably have him over a barrel with a room full of his secrets. So he has no choice but to continue supporting them, through fear of secrets getting out. It's absolute crackers! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Never liked Tom Cruise, I don’t know why lol.
Putting a spin on this, I loved glee back in the day (not for everyone I know) and I really liked the character puck but since all that went on in his private life, I can’t watch it quite the same as I did before.
Also, I loved watching totp reruns with jimmy saville but haven’t watched one to this day because of everything that went on.
Geeky x |
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"Never liked Tom Cruise, I don’t know why lol.
Putting a spin on this, I loved glee back in the day (not for everyone I know) and I really liked the character puck but since all that went on in his private life, I can’t watch it quite the same as I did before.
Also, I loved watching totp reruns with jimmy saville but haven’t watched one to this day because of everything that went on.
Geeky x"
Re TOTP reruns, they never ever feature Saville anymore.
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Well I actually love tom cruise....especially in top gun
Suppose he can be a bit arrogant in his films but he is only acting after all
As for his private life that’s got nothing to do with his films
X |
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"I was having a discussion with someone about Tom Cruise and how he's a great performer, but a shit person for his religious beliefs. They disagree with the notion of separating the art from the artist. I don't understand why people feel like they can't enjoy something because of an entertainer's private life.
I like Tom Cruise and whenever I'm watching one of his films I'm able to forget about that part of his life because it's completely separate from his work. I have no opinion on his beliefs because I know next to nothing about it and I really don't care to know because it isn't important to me. I like his films and that's all that matters, so I don't understand why people let his private life affect their enjoyment of his professional life.
You clearly do have an opinion on his beliefs because you think he is a shit person for having them.
The other person said that. Maybe if you read it properly you'd see that I was defending him."
You are right. I hadn't read it properly. Apologies |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Never liked Tom Cruise, I don’t know why lol.
Putting a spin on this, I loved glee back in the day (not for everyone I know) and I really liked the character puck but since all that went on in his private life, I can’t watch it quite the same as I did before.
Also, I loved watching totp reruns with jimmy saville but haven’t watched one to this day because of everything that went on.
Geeky x
Re TOTP reruns, they never ever feature Saville anymore.
"
Ooooooo don’t they? Yay!!!!! I can watch again! Thanks x |
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and still a great actor 
