FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Dilemma re strike 30th November
Dilemma re strike 30th November
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In BBC news today they announce the results of the recent Unison vote to strike were :
245,358 in favour of striking
70,253 against striking
a 78% majority in favour ( huh?   )
on a turnout of 29%
So, if you were one of the 70,253 against striking, what do you do, do you go to work as normal?
What about the 71% of those who couldn't be arsed to vote, do you work as normal?
What about the remainder of "public" workers who aren't even in the union, do you get mightily pissed off at the thought of working harder on that day to compensate?
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what about the families of non-members, eg parents of school children, who have to take a day off work due to the proposed action?
why dont teachers strike at half term or in the summer? its not as if they have anything better to do at the time  |
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By *BW38jWoman
over a year ago
Dudley/Telford |
"
In BBC news today they announce the results of the recent Unison vote to strike were :
245,358 in favour of striking
70,253 against striking
a 78% majority in favour ( huh? )
on a turnout of 29%
So, if you were one of the 70,253 against striking, what do you do, do you go to work as normal?
What about the 71% of those who couldn't be arsed to vote, do you work as normal?
What about the remainder of "public" workers who aren't even in the union, do you get mightily pissed off at the thought of working harder on that day to compensate?
"
im in same dilema public sector, but personally think we are scuppered cos the country cant realistically pay us pensions potentially for 30 years without doing something.
however if you count the folk who couldnt be bothered to vote as a no vote that turns the result right on its head. hate the thought that overnight someone has told me i have to work for an extra 6 years after i already did 24 yrs |
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I'm in the private sector, I've worked for 37 years and still have at least another 13 before I can retire. My 'pension' is bugger all, not cos I haven't paid into one, just that the company I paid it to are no longer giving any bonuses so basically it's been the same pot for the last 8 years
Do I feel sorry for public Sector workers...................... what do you think. |
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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
Hmmm....too lazy to vote to protect the kind of terms that private sector employees would crawl miles across broken glass to regain?
Fucking arrogant twats...I'm getting arrested on Nov 30, for firebombing a picket line.
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"Hmmm....too lazy to vote to protect the kind of terms that private sector employees would crawl miles across broken glass to regain?
Fucking arrogant twats...I'm getting arrested on Nov 30, for firebombing a picket line.
"
To regain? I would wager that 95%+ of private sector workers have never had such terms. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"what about the families of non-members, eg parents of school children, who have to take a day off work due to the proposed action?
why dont teachers strike at half term or in the summer? its not as if they have anything better to do at the time "
Good point, had to take the day off last strike this yr |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"what about the families of non-members, eg parents of school children, who have to take a day off work due to the proposed action?
why dont teachers strike at half term or in the summer? its not as if they have anything better to do at the time "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The public sectors gravy train comes to a grinding halt...bout time...
The apathy in voting is per, ain`t it...
Fair play to the government in tackling an issue, that should of been dealt with years ago....
Summat of a blow to some I guess..
Danny Alexanders deal seems fair enough to me..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Tell you what, most of the live wires have left the public sector teaching jobs for greener fields cos they were fed up carrying those apathetic non voters. Or they are working contract instead. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"less than 8% have voted to strike? Hardly unanimous.
How do you work it out to be 8%?......"
There are different figures out there and some say only 22% voted, and it wasn't 78% of them who wanted to strike but less. Both sides massage figures but if you are highly generous to the union still less than 1 in 4 voted to strike which is a long long way from being unanimous still. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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a) if you didn't want to strike, you should have voted in the ballot......
b) if you want to work instead of strike, you are always welcome to scab
c) if you aren't in the union, you are always welcome to blackleg
d) if you are working in a private company and are going to end up with a shit pension, don't complain about those who get pensions than you, join a union and strike for better wages and conditions.
I do feel sorry for those who are going to be inconvenienced but if people keep blindly voting for stupid self serving politicians in power mad corrupt political parties then this is the government we get and we shouldn't be surprised about it. |
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It doesn't have to be a unanimous vote amongst the ballot papers distributed to members.....strikes are decided on ballot papers returned.
In such the same way that many UK governments have been elected when the voting turn out has been at record lows, with the minority of the population voting for them.
No-one can second guess the thoughts of people who don't exercise their right to vote....
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"a) if you didn't want to strike, you should have voted in the ballot......
b) if you want to work instead of strike, you are always welcome to scab
c) if you aren't in the union, you are always welcome to blackleg
d) if you are working in a private company and are going to end up with a shit pension, don't complain about those who get pensions than you, join a union and strike for better wages and conditions.
I do feel sorry for those who are going to be inconvenienced but if people keep blindly voting for stupid self serving politicians in power mad corrupt political parties then this is the government we get and we shouldn't be surprised about it."
Well i did feel for some of the workers but you have now convinced me they are a shower of shite and should have their pensions coshed to normal levels as i am sure will happen. I now don't feel i should be contributing to anyone who uses antiquated words like scab and words like blackleg which have racial cogitations. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"a) if you didn't want to strike, you should have voted in the ballot......
b) if you want to work instead of strike, you are always welcome to scab
c) if you aren't in the union, you are always welcome to blackleg
d) if you are working in a private company and are going to end up with a shit pension, don't complain about those who get pensions than you, join a union and strike for better wages and conditions.
"
e) if you want a gold-plated pension at the expense of private sector workers and a heavily subsidised public sector which eventually bankrupts the country - move to Greece. |
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Imagine just near the end of paying off your mortgage the lender says 'oh by the way we have just extended the term you will have to pay and in the extended time we will want more from you'??
Or your life insurer did the same just when you were planning to cash it in?
Would that be fair? Like feck, so what would you do about it?
Sit back and go 'oh well' or do something?
Most of the public sector pension schemes were 'reformed' a couple of years ago and are affordable and self financing cos' public sector workers have contributed to them for decades.
Some as much as 11%.
Am not really into this Public versus Private, all workers are entitled to
respect and dignity in their retirement.
The 'captains of industry' and MP's certainly are looked after.
It seems that the Government, CBI etc are happy to have a rush to the bottom for all except themselves.
They must piss themselves when private sector low paid workers slag off public sector low paid workers!
As for affordability of public sector pensions the evidence is out there and not the daily mail/murdoch press version.
As for the original question...
No dilemma at all, wont ever cross a picket line.
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I think it's fair to say that there are currently many hundreds of thousands....maybe even millions...of pensioners who are enjoying very lucrative and bountiful private pensions......
So lets not get carried away in believing that only public sector workers enjoy good pensions....because that isn't the case.
As I'm sure we are all aware, even if we want to pretend otherwise. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No dilemma at all, wont ever cross a picket line.
"
I wouldn't cross one either - but only if I'd taken part in the ballot. I'd abide by it's results regardless of how I voted, but if I felt strongly against the motion being proposed I wouldn't vote and that would leave me conscious-free to cross a picket line.
Make the vote compulsory for all members and then abide by the result and there wouldn't be an issue regarding crossing picket lines. IMO. |
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"a) if you didn't want to strike, you should have voted in the ballot......
b) if you want to work instead of strike, you are always welcome to scab
c) if you aren't in the union, you are always welcome to blackleg
d) if you are working in a private company and are going to end up with a shit pension, don't complain about those who get pensions than you, join a union and strike for better wages and conditions.
I do feel sorry for those who are going to be inconvenienced but if people keep blindly voting for stupid self serving politicians in power mad corrupt political parties then this is the government we get and we shouldn't be surprised about it.
Well i did feel for some of the workers but you have now convinced me they are a shower of shite and should have their pensions coshed to normal levels as i am sure will happen. I now don't feel i should be contributing to anyone who uses antiquated words like scab and words like blackleg which have racial cogitations. "
On the basis of one post you are convinced that 'they are a shower of shite', who are 'they'?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think it's fair to say that there are currently many hundreds of thousands....maybe even millions...of pensioners who are enjoying very lucrative and bountiful private pensions......
So lets not get carried away in believing that only public sector workers enjoy good pensions....because that isn't the case.
As I'm sure we are all aware, even if we want to pretend otherwise."
Thats true but private sector pensions are not funded by the general public. Which would you rather have. Local hospitals not closing, police numbers not cut and the armd services not pruned or a more socially acceptable pension for state workers? |
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Incidentally, there was a report out last week that stated that directors pay amongst the FTSE top 50 British companies saw their earnings rise by around 50% in 2010/11.....
When many if not most of their workforce saw their wages frozen.
Before we lay all the blame at the feet of public sector workers like.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"a) if you didn't want to strike, you should have voted in the ballot......
b) if you want to work instead of strike, you are always welcome to scab
c) if you aren't in the union, you are always welcome to blackleg
d) if you are working in a private company and are going to end up with a shit pension, don't complain about those who get pensions than you, join a union and strike for better wages and conditions.
I do feel sorry for those who are going to be inconvenienced but if people keep blindly voting for stupid self serving politicians in power mad corrupt political parties then this is the government we get and we shouldn't be surprised about it.
Well i did feel for some of the workers but you have now convinced me they are a shower of shite and should have their pensions coshed to normal levels as i am sure will happen. I now don't feel i should be contributing to anyone who uses antiquated words like scab and words like blackleg which have racial cogitations.
On the basis of one post you are convinced that 'they are a shower of shite', who are 'they'?
"
Totally, inevitably in every possible way 
Let them eat cake.  |
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By *umpkinMan
over a year ago
near the sounds of the wimborne quarter jack! |
Well I`m at the lower end of earners in the Public sector (16k) so my "gold plated" persion is going to be bugger all anyway. I had my voting papers arrive yesterday, result was given today!
Thing is, I`m in the "unaffected" area because of my age, the changes will not affect my entitilement. My dilemma is do I vote for and go on strike to support my colleagues risking my "deal" or do I say "sod you Jack, I`m alright!" and not strike! Typical Tory trick to split the workforce just like they did with the miners! |
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"No dilemma at all, wont ever cross a picket line.
I wouldn't cross one either - but only if I'd taken part in the ballot. I'd abide by it's results regardless of how I voted, but if I felt strongly against the motion being proposed I wouldn't vote and that would leave me conscious-free to cross a picket line.
Make the vote compulsory for all members and then abide by the result and there wouldn't be an issue regarding crossing picket lines. IMO."
Wishy, do i assume you would leave the union before crossing a picket line.
If voting was compulsory that may help but it's not in local or national elections so a bit of double standards from any government imposing such on union members.
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"I think it's fair to say that there are currently many hundreds of thousands....maybe even millions...of pensioners who are enjoying very lucrative and bountiful private pensions......
So lets not get carried away in believing that only public sector workers enjoy good pensions....because that isn't the case.
As I'm sure we are all aware, even if we want to pretend otherwise.
Thats true but private sector pensions are not funded by the general public. Which would you rather have. Local hospitals not closing, police numbers not cut and the armd services not pruned or a more socially acceptable pension for state workers?"
So when the general public buy the goods and services of these private companies they are not funding the pensions of private sector workers?
We live in a massive service sector society here in the UK, we as the UK public pay for their services....in turn this bolsters their pensions ultimately. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Incidentally, there was a report out last week that stated that directors pay amongst the FTSE top 50 British companies saw their earnings rise by around 50% in 2010/11.....
When many if not most of their workforce saw their wages frozen.
Before we lay all the blame at the feet of public sector workers like...."
The key point is TOP 50% ie companies that are efficient, profitable and so bonus payments are made. What about the bottom 50% of companies what percentage rise did their directors receive? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Wishy, do i assume you would leave the union before crossing a picket line.
If voting was compulsory that may help but it's not in local or national elections so a bit of double standards from any government imposing such on union members.
"
If it was a closed shop I couldn't leave the union and keep my job. Hence in a strike ballot that isn't compulsory people should be free to vote the way they feel and cross a picket line without fear of reprisal. The unions can't have it all their own way. |
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"I think it's fair to say that there are currently many hundreds of thousands....maybe even millions...of pensioners who are enjoying very lucrative and bountiful private pensions......
So lets not get carried away in believing that only public sector workers enjoy good pensions....because that isn't the case.
As I'm sure we are all aware, even if we want to pretend otherwise.
Thats true but private sector pensions are not funded by the general public. Which would you rather have. Local hospitals not closing, police numbers not cut and the armd services not pruned or a more socially acceptable pension for state workers?"
do you seriously not realise that the current cuts are purely to give away tax cuts prior to the 2015 general election.
and why is it socially acceptable to attack some of the lowest paid workers in the country (public or private) and not to chase the estimated tens of billions of unpaid taxes by the rich? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think it's fair to say that there are currently many hundreds of thousands....maybe even millions...of pensioners who are enjoying very lucrative and bountiful private pensions......
So lets not get carried away in believing that only public sector workers enjoy good pensions....because that isn't the case.
As I'm sure we are all aware, even if we want to pretend otherwise.
Thats true but private sector pensions are not funded by the general public. Which would you rather have. Local hospitals not closing, police numbers not cut and the armd services not pruned or a more socially acceptable pension for state workers?
So when the general public buy the goods and services of these private companies they are not funding the pensions of private sector workers?
We live in a massive service sector society here in the UK, we as the UK public pay for their services....in turn this bolsters their pensions ultimately."
I don't know about you but i can choose to buy products or not from a private company and choose which company. I can't choose to pay tax or pay council charges. There is a huge difference in the two as you can choose to fund one pension or not but you have no choice at all with the public sector so to compare the two is unacceptable as i see it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think it's fair to say that there are currently many hundreds of thousands....maybe even millions...of pensioners who are enjoying very lucrative and bountiful private pensions......
So lets not get carried away in believing that only public sector workers enjoy good pensions....because that isn't the case.
As I'm sure we are all aware, even if we want to pretend otherwise.
Thats true but private sector pensions are not funded by the general public. Which would you rather have. Local hospitals not closing, police numbers not cut and the armd services not pruned or a more socially acceptable pension for state workers?
do you seriously not realise that the current cuts are purely to give away tax cuts prior to the 2015 general election.
and why is it socially acceptable to attack some of the lowest paid workers in the country (public or private) and not to chase the estimated tens of billions of unpaid taxes by the rich?"
Actually i realise the cuts are to reduce the amount of interest and the size of the public debt.  |
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"
Wishy, do i assume you would leave the union before crossing a picket line.
If voting was compulsory that may help but it's not in local or national elections so a bit of double standards from any government imposing such on union members.
If it was a closed shop I couldn't leave the union and keep my job. Hence in a strike ballot that isn't compulsory people should be free to vote the way they feel and cross a picket line without fear of reprisal. The unions can't have it all their own way."
not many closed shops now days, agree on the fear of reprisal issue but anyone who does so should leave a union or be voted out.
they will certainly benefit from any improvement in conditions of service or salary if the action is successfull.
cant have it both ways |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Wishy, do i assume you would leave the union before crossing a picket line.
If voting was compulsory that may help but it's not in local or national elections so a bit of double standards from any government imposing such on union members.
If it was a closed shop I couldn't leave the union and keep my job. Hence in a strike ballot that isn't compulsory people should be free to vote the way they feel and cross a picket line without fear of reprisal. The unions can't have it all their own way.
not many closed shops now days, agree on the fear of reprisal issue but anyone who does so should leave a union or be voted out.
"
Why? I am sure you don't agree with everything your partner/family/friends do. Should you kick them out too? |
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"Bring back The Days we all had our little arguments about things like this - Down the Pub..
"
agreed, when we had a 'set'
now the only issue's being talked about are overpaid football 'stars' or reality tv garbage
not by all of course |
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"
Wishy, do i assume you would leave the union before crossing a picket line.
If voting was compulsory that may help but it's not in local or national elections so a bit of double standards from any government imposing such on union members.
If it was a closed shop I couldn't leave the union and keep my job. Hence in a strike ballot that isn't compulsory people should be free to vote the way they feel and cross a picket line without fear of reprisal. The unions can't have it all their own way.
not many closed shops now days, agree on the fear of reprisal issue but anyone who does so should leave a union or be voted out.
Why? I am sure you don't agree with everything your partner/family/friends do. Should you kick them out too?"
little bit different not agreeing or even liking family etc
if your a member of a trade union and you disagree with the issue fine, you vote against if it gets that far
if its a yes for industrial action then you abide by that or leave, its called democracy
anyone who crosses a picket line and is a member should be booted out end of, imho that is |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Wishy, do i assume you would leave the union before crossing a picket line.
If voting was compulsory that may help but it's not in local or national elections so a bit of double standards from any government imposing such on union members.
If it was a closed shop I couldn't leave the union and keep my job. Hence in a strike ballot that isn't compulsory people should be free to vote the way they feel and cross a picket line without fear of reprisal. The unions can't have it all their own way.
not many closed shops now days, agree on the fear of reprisal issue but anyone who does so should leave a union or be voted out.
Why? I am sure you don't agree with everything your partner/family/friends do. Should you kick them out too?
little bit different not agreeing or even liking family etc
if your a member of a trade union and you disagree with the issue fine, you vote against if it gets that far
if its a yes for industrial action then you abide by that or leave, its called democracy"
Err that's not a democracy far far from it. Thats do as we say or bugger off!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We`ve known about the forthcoming demographics fer years..I saw we...the economists etc....
A smaller workforce providing fer a burgeoning eldery population...
Summats got to give....its just not affordable....
Things will have to change alot more in time...the way we divvy up the pie, that is..
Past governments wouldn`t tackle the issue....always looking at the next 4 years and afraid of political suicide...
At some point...the system needs ajustment, and some were going to be the losers....bad luck...no one wants it to be them , do they..
The good times, when we had decades of high prosperity and guaranteed growth , are nearly going to be memories..
Somethings gotta give.....its about change....selling yer house to provide fer yer old age...will happen...I reckon..gven time.. |
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"
Wishy, do i assume you would leave the union before crossing a picket line.
If voting was compulsory that may help but it's not in local or national elections so a bit of double standards from any government imposing such on union members.
If it was a closed shop I couldn't leave the union and keep my job. Hence in a strike ballot that isn't compulsory people should be free to vote the way they feel and cross a picket line without fear of reprisal. The unions can't have it all their own way.
not many closed shops now days, agree on the fear of reprisal issue but anyone who does so should leave a union or be voted out.
Why? I am sure you don't agree with everything your partner/family/friends do. Should you kick them out too?
little bit different not agreeing or even liking family etc
if your a member of a trade union and you disagree with the issue fine, you vote against if it gets that far
if its a yes for industrial action then you abide by that or leave, its called democracy
Err that's not a democracy far far from it. Thats do as we say or bugger off!
"
m8 if you join say a golf club you agree to abide by the rules of the club
if you dont like them you leave, either of your own choice or they ask you to do so
people who take the benefits that a union provides eg. when they are in the cack and require representation to save their job
conditions of service, (never been given out of good will by the bosses ever)
pay rises fought for 'by the union'
should abide by the rules of the union as they stand at that time
(if you dont like them you change them via the processes of the union)
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Wishy, do i assume you would leave the union before crossing a picket line.
If voting was compulsory that may help but it's not in local or national elections so a bit of double standards from any government imposing such on union members.
If it was a closed shop I couldn't leave the union and keep my job. Hence in a strike ballot that isn't compulsory people should be free to vote the way they feel and cross a picket line without fear of reprisal. The unions can't have it all their own way.
not many closed shops now days, agree on the fear of reprisal issue but anyone who does so should leave a union or be voted out.
Why? I am sure you don't agree with everything your partner/family/friends do. Should you kick them out too?
little bit different not agreeing or even liking family etc
if your a member of a trade union and you disagree with the issue fine, you vote against if it gets that far
if its a yes for industrial action then you abide by that or leave, its called democracy
Err that's not a democracy far far from it. Thats do as we say or bugger off!
m8 if you join say a golf club you agree to abide by the rules of the club
if you dont like them you leave, either of your own choice or they ask you to do so
people who take the benefits that a union provides eg. when they are in the cack and require representation to save their job
conditions of service, (never been given out of good will by the bosses ever)
pay rises fought for 'by the union'
should abide by the rules of the union as they stand at that time
(if you dont like them you change them via the processes of the union)
"
No you are totally wrong there with that analogy. If i am in a club, they say no golf on Wednesday because we don’t like the caterers say and they are going to boycott. You don’t leave if you want to use the food services, you shouldn’t be made to leave just so the caters cave in under pressure. You have a choice.
Ok lts turn this on its head. You don’t like your job you leave, you don’t strike,. You put forward your grievances and get a better job. Ok some can’t ... why? Because the job they have is better than others available.
All this scab, forcing people to strike etc is not democratic its bullying people to do something some don’t want to do. After all a union is supposedly there for all its members not some.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well i did feel for some of the workers but you have now convinced me they are a shower of shite and should have their pensions coshed to normal levels as i am sure will happen. I now don't feel i should be contributing to anyone who uses antiquated words like scab and words like blackleg which have racial cogitations. "
Not my pension mate, I work in the private sector and am fighting for the rights of my members for good jobs with good wages and good pensions.
Scab and Blackleg have no racial connotations, by the way. A scab is a union member who crosses the picket line, while a black leg is a non unionised worker who crosses the picket line. I would excuse your ignorance, but these terms are a hundred years old, learn a little history.
It's no surprise that Britain has the longest working week and the biggest gap between the bottom and the top, when we have the most draconian labour laws and lowest Union membership rates. Germany has tremendous Union participation, both the government and the Industrialists take the unions seriously, with unions being resent at all levels of management and, surprise surprise) Germany's labour relations are amongst the best in the world, their workers are some of the highest paid and their economy is the strongest in Europe.
Don’t forget, the bosses want you and I fighting, you blaming another worker for the benefits they get. It’s stops you agitating for those benefits yourself. Better pay and conditions are in your grasp, if you only organise. It’s not for nothing that they say “the Workers, United, Will never be defeated”.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well i did feel for some of the workers but you have now convinced me they are a shower of shite and should have their pensions coshed to normal levels as i am sure will happen. I now don't feel i should be contributing to anyone who uses antiquated words like scab and words like blackleg which have racial cogitations.
Not my pension mate, I work in the private sector and am fighting for the rights of my members for good jobs with good wages and good pensions.
Scab and Blackleg have no racial connotations, by the way. A scab is a union member who crosses the picket line, while a black leg is a non unionised worker who crosses the picket line. I would excuse your ignorance, but these terms are a hundred years old, learn a little history.
It's no surprise that Britain has the longest working week and the biggest gap between the bottom and the top, when we have the most draconian labour laws and lowest Union membership rates. Germany has tremendous Union participation, both the government and the Industrialists take the unions seriously, with unions being resent at all levels of management and, surprise surprise) Germany's labour relations are amongst the best in the world, their workers are some of the highest paid and their economy is the strongest in Europe.
Don’t forget, the bosses want you and I fighting, you blaming another worker for the benefits they get. It’s stops you agitating for those benefits yourself. Better pay and conditions are in your grasp, if you only organise. It’s not for nothing that they say “the Workers, United, Will never be defeated”.
"
Well its pretty obvious you don’t understand the German work ethic. They don’t mess about and are far more productive per man than the UK. They are well aware striking doesn’t work, they learnt that sharply with the unrest with reunification, You need to read up a bit an not exhibit ignorance and lack of understanding. Japan is highly productive too, has far better pay rates and more draconian labour laws than the UK.
As for your workers are united wont ever be.........Dockers...............Miners.........Errr you were saying? I seriously hope you have nothing to do with the unions as you clearly have a flawed perspective. British Leyland is no more you know.
I think you need to wake up, the bosses as you put it want a healthy business all round. But this is about the government making cuts not the public sector directors you know.
Now setting one worker against the other well i think you will find thats what the union does with the term scab!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
In BBC news today they announce the results of the recent Unison vote to strike were :
245,358 in favour of striking
70,253 against striking
a 78% majority in favour ( huh? )
on a turnout of 29%
So, if you were one of the 70,253 against striking, what do you do, do you go to work as normal?
What about the 71% of those who couldn't be arsed to vote, do you work as normal?
What about the remainder of "public" workers who aren't even in the union, do you get mightily pissed off at the thought of working harder on that day to compensate?"
I've recently started work in the NHS. I'm on Grade 1, I can't afford to come out financially as Trace only works 24 hours.
However the way I see it is this, if by taking action, the workers get better conditions, pay or whatever, would I expect to get those benefits too?
The answer is of course" Yes!".
As I expect to share in those benefits, I see it as only fair that I face the same hardships as my co workers to get them.
I always wonder how many none strikers would say "No thank you,I don't deserve it" to any benefits gained by their co workers.
If it meant only those taking action gained from it, how many would keep working then?
Some people are too keen to let others take the risks, do the dirty work and face the hardships while they do nothing but reap the rewards.
One of the biggest problems with this country is the lack of solidarity and the "Fuck you Jack I'm alright" mentality! R |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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These 'public sector workers' that some are complaining about are not just bureaucrats; they are teachers, nurses, midwives, police officers, fire fighters etc...do you really begrudge the people who have worked hard all their lives to protect / look after / ensure that your quality of life is just that a comfortable old age?
If you feel so strongly that the private sector is so hard done by then whats stopping anybody joining the public sector? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"These 'public sector workers' that some are complaining about are not just bureaucrats; they are teachers, nurses, midwives, police officers, fire fighters etc...do you really begrudge the people who have worked hard all their lives to protect / look after / ensure that your quality of life is just that a comfortable old age?
If you feel so strongly that the private sector is so hard done by then whats stopping anybody joining the public sector?"
An average private sector worker looks at an average public sector worker moaning about their pension....
Does the average public sector worker have any freaking idea how much it actually costs ?..
I can tell yer...it way beyond the average private sector worker....
I`ll save my pity fer someone who has some humility at their good fortune....loking at the revised estimated final pension sums...makes interesting reading...
Does a brickie....working from hand to mouth....building the hospitals...council offices etc contribute any less to society...
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Miners.....Split by the Durham miners. Incidentaly, they were promised work for ever more by Maggie. She won and had their pits closed down by the end of the 80's. Fed a load of shit?
Bosses, looking for a fast buck. Do you realy think you would have pensions, holidays, sick or maternity leave or any of the other rghts you enjoy (and which are slowly being eroded) without 100 years of strugle?
Germany, far more productive because they are engaged by management, because the management take the workers seriously because the workers are in strong unions.
British Leyland? I think that had more to do with crap design, too many models on the production line and poor pricing. You are aware that when the mini was being made it cost £300 to make a unit and was sold at £200 per unit? The workers at Fords were striking too, they didn't close down because Ford was profitable.
I still stand, why should workers lie down and accept real terms pay cuts and poor working conditions when the directors and the shareholders are laughing all the way to the (discredited) banks. Or were you over the moon when the bankers were bailed out? |
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Rushden |
"These 'public sector workers' that some are complaining about are not just bureaucrats; they are teachers, nurses, midwives, police officers, fire fighters etc...do you really begrudge the people who have worked hard all their lives to protect / look after / ensure that your quality of life is just that a comfortable old age?"
Oh please!! All this hearts and flowers stuff that everyone seems to spout when nurses and firefighters are talked about! They are in a JOB... They choose that JOB... No one makes them stay in that JOB! Perhaps it used to be a vocation, but none of the public sector workers I know think of it as such!
My neighbour who is a fireman earns a very good wage and also has part time jobs too. He works these when his shift pattern allows. My sister in Law who is a nurse of some sort (never asked and not interested) made it plain she was on more than £32K per year. They have fantastic holidays and also own a house in France.
Do I have sympathy for their "plight" over the pensions? Nope! I see no reason why I should work my arse off to pay for someone else to retire on an above average pension. Let them join the real world and live like the rest of us have to in retirement! Or of course pay the same percentages as we have to to enjoy the benefits! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There is a difference between lying down and making cuts all round to sort out the country's depts. Would you rather many more public sector workers were made redundant then?
Poor working conditions in the public sector! You are joking aren't you please tell me your not serious! |
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"
No you are totally wrong there with that analogy. If i am in a club, they say no golf on Wednesday because we don’t like the caterers say and they are going to boycott. You don’t leave if you want to use the food services, you shouldn’t be made to leave just so the caters cave in under pressure. You have a choice.
{yes you dont eat if the caterers are not good enough or to your taste etc or the club ends their contract if they are not up to scratch, maybe i should have used a simpler analogy to explain?}
Ok lts turn this on its head. You don’t like your job you leave, you don’t strike,. You put forward your grievances and get a better job. Ok some can’t ... why? Because the job they have is better than others available.
{are we talking collectively or as an individual? not heard of a one person strike before?}
All this scab, forcing people to strike etc is not democratic its bullying people to do something some don’t want to do. After all a union is supposedly there for all its members not some.
{i never said anything about forcing peoiple to strike, if you read again where i responded to Wishy that is clear. and yes a union is there for all its members but in a democratic union the majority will win the argument as in elections in this country, unless you mean that a union should ignore the majorities wishes and do what the minority decide in a ballot? thats not how it works}
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
No you are totally wrong there with that analogy. If i am in a club, they say no golf on Wednesday because we don’t like the caterers say and they are going to boycott. You don’t leave if you want to use the food services, you shouldn’t be made to leave just so the caters cave in under pressure. You have a choice.
{yes you dont eat if the caterers are not good enough or to your taste etc or the club ends their contract if they are not up to scratch, maybe i should have used a simpler analogy to explain?}
Ok lts turn this on its head. You don’t like your job you leave, you don’t strike,. You put forward your grievances and get a better job. Ok some can’t ... why? Because the job they have is better than others available.
{are we talking collectively or as an individual? not heard of a one person strike before?}
All this scab, forcing people to strike etc is not democratic its bullying people to do something some don’t want to do. After all a union is supposedly there for all its members not some.
{i never said anything about forcing peoiple to strike, if you read again where i responded to Wishy that is clear. and yes a union is there for all its members but in a democratic union the majority will win the argument as in elections in this country, unless you mean that a union should ignore the majorities wishes and do what the minority decide in a ballot? thats not how it works}
"
So your position of strike or leave the union isn't twisting someone's arm? Calling them scab etc for working isn't intimidation? Wake up, smell the coffee that's coercion plain and simple.
The democratic way is to let the ones who want to strike do so and the ones who want to work equally do so. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"These 'public sector workers' that some are complaining about are not just bureaucrats; they are teachers, nurses, midwives, police officers, fire fighters etc...do you really begrudge the people who have worked hard all their lives to protect / look after / ensure that your quality of life is just that a comfortable old age?
Oh please!! All this hearts and flowers stuff that everyone seems to spout when nurses and firefighters are talked about! They are in a JOB... They choose that JOB... No one makes them stay in that JOB! Perhaps it used to be a vocation, but none of the public sector workers I know think of it as such!
My neighbour who is a fireman earns a very good wage and also has part time jobs too. He works these when his shift pattern allows. My sister in Law who is a nurse of some sort (never asked and not interested) made it plain she was on more than £32K per year. They have fantastic holidays and also own a house in France.
Do I have sympathy for their "plight" over the pensions? Nope! I see no reason why I should work my arse off to pay for someone else to retire on an above average pension. Let them join the real world and live like the rest of us have to in retirement! Or of course pay the same percentages as we have to to enjoy the benefits!"
Thats really odd because everyone I know in the healthcare industry looks upon it as a vocation
They can work 12 hour days (sometimes longer) without a break longer than 10 minutes and don't regard that as a chore but a privilege...
You use your firefighter neighbour as some sort of example when even you admit that he has to work other jobs as well...possibly not on as good a salary as you envisage? In fairness, I don't know anybody who enjoys working so much that they would willingly take on more than one physically demanding job at a time.
There is of course always the option that if any were not happy with their private sector gains then perhaps something in the public sector would be preferable; I find it really sad that some would rather deny others what they are willing to fight for when they are not. |
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"
So your position of strike or leave the union isn't twisting someone's arm? Calling them scab etc for working isn't intimidation? Wake up, smell the coffee that's coercion plain and simple.
The democratic way is to let the ones who want to strike do so and the ones who want to work equally do so.
again read what i have said previously before responding
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There are no Closed Shops anymore, they were done away with in the early 80's"
They were made illegal under section 137(1)(a) of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992, to be precise, but I know from first hand experience that, even though closed shops are illegal, managers often urge new workers to join the union operating in their workplace. (I worked for the Post Office where my manager told me that it would cause significant problems if a strike was called and I had to work because I wasn't a union member. He went on to say that by not joining the union, in the case of any future redundancies, the union would put my name down first as someone to let go, although it would be masked under the 'last-in, first-out' scenario) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The fact is, the country can't afford public sector pensions as they currently stand. something has to give.
And I really dont want the UK to go down the toilet along with Greece, Italy and probably Spain! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There are no Closed Shops anymore, they were done away with in the early 80's
They were made illegal under section 137(1)(a) of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992, to be precise, but I know from first hand experience that, even though closed shops are illegal, managers often urge new workers to join the union operating in their workplace. (I worked for the Post Office where my manager told me that it would cause significant problems if a strike was called and I had to work because I wasn't a union member. He went on to say that by not joining the union, in the case of any future redundancies, the union would put my name down first as someone to let go, although it would be masked under the 'last-in, first-out' scenario)"
Can you sort my pensions out. I've never heard anyone quote section numbers. I'm well impressed !!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can you sort my pensions out. I've never heard anyone quote section numbers. I'm well impressed !!!"
How does a nice little earner in the Cayman Islands sound? |
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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago
glasgow |
we're all in this together,and everyone must make sacrifices.
spare a thought for the poor banks.
if things get any worse,they may have to start paying tax,based on their profits ha ha ha.
at least fred goodwin,got what he deserved.
it always angers me,when i hear of unions,expecting their members to receive,what they were promised grrrrrr
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Miners.....Split by the Durham miners. Incidentaly, they were promised work for ever more by Maggie. She won and had their pits closed down by the end of the 80's. Fed a load of shit?
Bosses, looking for a fast buck. Do you realy think you would have pensions, holidays, sick or maternity leave or any of the other rghts you enjoy (and which are slowly being eroded) without 100 years of strugle?
Germany, far more productive because they are engaged by management, because the management take the workers seriously because the workers are in strong unions.
British Leyland? I think that had more to do with crap design, too many models on the production line and poor pricing. You are aware that when the mini was being made it cost £300 to make a unit and was sold at £200 per unit? The workers at Fords were striking too, they didn't close down because Ford was profitable.
I still stand, why should workers lie down and accept real terms pay cuts and poor working conditions when the directors and the shareholders are laughing all the way to the (discredited) banks. Or were you over the moon when the bankers were bailed out?"
makes perfect sense |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We`ve known about the forthcoming demographics fer years..I saw we...the economists etc....
A smaller workforce providing fer a burgeoning eldery population...
Summats got to give....its just not affordable....
Things will have to change alot more in time...the way we divvy up the pie, that is..
Past governments wouldn`t tackle the issue....always looking at the next 4 years and afraid of political suicide...
At some point...the system needs ajustment, and some were going to be the losers....bad luck...no one wants it to be them , do they..
The good times, when we had decades of high prosperity and guaranteed growth , are nearly going to be memories..
Somethings gotta give.....its about change....selling yer house to provide fer yer old age...will happen...I reckon..gven time.."
already has to many. |
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I'm a public sector worker Not a manager but what mangement think of as dogsbodies.In the last 5 years my wage has gone down by £6000 a year through wage cuts and loss of other job related benefits. Unison are the main culprits for this situation in Leeds as when they balloted the workforce about wage restructuring they balloted management too on blue collar salaries. The vote was wage cuts and pay freezes. Strangely when the time came to vote on management salaries ONLY management were balloted and they voted against any changes in their conditions. My pension wont be affected because I took out my own I like thousands of other public sector employees do not get a public sector pension we have to arrange our own. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I notice Unison never mention any of this when going national with their war cries against the govt. It seems to m that this latest dispute is nothing more than sabre-rattling by a few militants as 71% of the membership didn't even bother to vote. |
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Don't know if this is feasable, but why not pay EVERYONE of pensionable age a flat rate basic pension. Say £300 pounds a week. No early retirement or if you do you don't get the payment.
As I said I'm no mathematician or accountant but that seems a fair deal |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Don't know if this is feasable, but why not pay EVERYONE of pensionable age a flat rate basic pension. Say £300 pounds a week. No early retirement or if you do you don't get the payment.
As I said I'm no mathematician or accountant but that seems a fair deal "
There are 12 million people of pensionable age in the UK and to give them each £300 a week would cost £1.87bn per year.
If the cost of current pension provisions is more than that figure then I'm all for your plan. |
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"Don't know if this is feasable, but why not pay EVERYONE of pensionable age a flat rate basic pension. Say £300 pounds a week. No early retirement or if you do you don't get the payment.
As I said I'm no mathematician or accountant but that seems a fair deal "
what, even those who have never contributed? |
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"Don't know if this is feasable, but why not pay EVERYONE of pensionable age a flat rate basic pension. Say £300 pounds a week. No early retirement or if you do you don't get the payment.
As I said I'm no mathematician or accountant but that seems a fair deal
what, even those who have never contributed?"
Sorry should have said who were entitled |
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"Don't know if this is feasable, but why not pay EVERYONE of pensionable age a flat rate basic pension. Say £300 pounds a week. No early retirement or if you do you don't get the payment.
As I said I'm no mathematician or accountant but that seems a fair deal
what, even those who have never contributed?
Sorry should have said who were entitled"
phew! thought you were going all soft lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Don't know if this is feasable, but why not pay EVERYONE of pensionable age a flat rate basic pension. Say £300 pounds a week. No early retirement or if you do you don't get the payment.
As I said I'm no mathematician or accountant but that seems a fair deal
what, even those who have never contributed?
Sorry should have said who were entitled"
There would have to be an all or nothing approach to it, and those who could afford to boost their pensions with private contribs should be permitted to do so.
Downing St Here I come!! (wiv me pension advisor, _etillante in tow) |
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"
what, even those who have never contributed?
Sorry should have said who were entitled
phew! thought you were going all soft lol
Me, Hell no...... oh hang on there is one, little soft place"
never said soft, warm and nice to taste |
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"Don't know if this is feasable, but why not pay EVERYONE of pensionable age a flat rate basic pension. Say £300 pounds a week. No early retirement or if you do you don't get the payment.
As I said I'm no mathematician or accountant but that seems a fair deal
what, even those who have never contributed?
Sorry should have said who were entitled
There would have to be an all or nothing approach to it, and those who could afford to boost their pensions with private contribs should be permitted to do so.
Downing St Here I come!! (wiv me pension advisor, _etillante in tow) "
Do I get a pension? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Don't know if this is feasable, but why not pay EVERYONE of pensionable age a flat rate basic pension. Say £300 pounds a week. No early retirement or if you do you don't get the payment.
As I said I'm no mathematician or accountant but that seems a fair deal
There are 12 million people of pensionable age in the UK and to give them each £300 a week would cost £1.87bn per year.
If the cost of current pension provisions is more than that figure then I'm all for your plan."
oops - left a zero out of my equation.
The figure is £187.2bn (12m x £300 x 52), and as the current total spending pot for the Dept of Work & Pensions is £135bn (£62.677bn on State Pensions) your plan is not economically viable withour making cuts elsewhere.  |
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"Don't know if this is feasable, but why not pay EVERYONE of pensionable age a flat rate basic pension. Say £300 pounds a week. No early retirement or if you do you don't get the payment.
As I said I'm no mathematician or accountant but that seems a fair deal
There are 12 million people of pensionable age in the UK and to give them each £300 a week would cost £1.87bn per year.
If the cost of current pension provisions is more than that figure then I'm all for your plan.
oops - left a zero out of my equation.
The figure is £187.2bn (12m x £300 x 52), and as the current total spending pot for the Dept of Work & Pensions is £135bn (£62.677bn on State Pensions) your plan is not economically viable withour making cuts elsewhere. "
Guess I'm not your advisor anymore  |
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"Don't know if this is feasable, but why not pay EVERYONE of pensionable age a flat rate basic pension. Say £300 pounds a week. No early retirement or if you do you don't get the payment.
As I said I'm no mathematician or accountant but that seems a fair deal
There are 12 million people of pensionable age in the UK and to give them each £300 a week would cost £1.87bn per year.
If the cost of current pension provisions is more than that figure then I'm all for your plan.
oops - left a zero out of my equation.
The figure is £187.2bn (12m x £300 x 52), and as the current total spending pot for the Dept of Work & Pensions is £135bn (£62.677bn on State Pensions) your plan is not economically viable withour making cuts elsewhere.
Guess I'm not your advisor anymore "
dont let that worry you, just keep blaming the previous administration till one morning when you are launching a huge tax give away (coincidentally when an election is due)say 'hey that massive defecit which was here yesterday has gone and we have lots of inducements for you, joe n 'jane public' to vote for us!! 
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"dont let that worry you, just keep blaming the previous administration till one morning when you are launching a huge tax give away (coincidentally when an election is due)say 'hey that massive defecit which was here yesterday has gone and we have lots of inducements for you, joe n 'jane public' to vote for us!!
"
That's how the game is played. Have you ever seen an altruistic politician who's in it only for the people and how best he can serve them? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"dont let that worry you, just keep blaming the previous administration till one morning when you are launching a huge tax give away (coincidentally when an election is due)say 'hey that massive defecit which was here yesterday has gone and we have lots of inducements for you, joe n 'jane public' to vote for us!!
That's how the game is played. Have you ever seen an altruistic politician who's in it only for the people and how best he can serve them?"
Oh....thats too cynical ..
Sure there`s polititians who try and serve thir country...before, if ever doing it purely out of self interest...
And Lord only knows..I`m not particulary enamored by the way some behave..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm in the private sector, I've worked for 37 years and still have at least another 13 before I can retire. My 'pension' is bugger all, not cos I haven't paid into one, just that the company I paid it to are no longer giving any bonuses so basically it's been the same pot for the last 8 years
Do I feel sorry for public Sector workers......................
what do you think."
Well if you and all the other workers in this country found the courage to join unions and stand up for yourselves, instead of meekly accepting your lot and just grumbling to your friends, then British workers wouldn't be among the most badly paid workers in the EU, and the UK wouldn't have the fourth greatest gap between rich and poor in the entire developed world.. |
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