FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Equality and diversity
Equality and diversity
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Has anyone had to go through this bollocks at work?
It's a mandatory requirement for all our staff to college this NVQ level booklet and it's utter garbage!!!
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Please elaborate "
There's the idea of positive discrimination and positive stereotypes.
In my world discrimination is discrimination, there's no positive side to it.
To be honest the the answer to the whole thing is easy. Treat everyone the same |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
Why is it bollocks?
If I treat everyone the same they result isn't the same for them. I'll assume all blind people can read the signs, because everyone else manages. I'll let wheelchair users cope with the stairs, everyone else does. Women should book annual leave when the baby is due and be back when that leave is up.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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" Treat everyone the same
Actually that’s kinda missing the whole point. "
Is it though? I mean yeah I was being simplistic but in essence equally and diversity is about not discriminating and treating people equally.
It's basically a case of switching off your brain and rewording the textbook. Really is that boring  |
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"Why is it bollocks?
If I treat everyone the same they result isn't the same for them. I'll assume all blind people can read the signs, because everyone else manages. I'll let wheelchair users cope with the stairs, everyone else does. Women should book annual leave when the baby is due and be back when that leave is up.
"
OP? Is that you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" Treat everyone the same
Actually that’s kinda missing the whole point.
Is it though? I mean yeah I was being simplistic but in essence equally and diversity is about not discriminating and treating people equally.
It's basically a case of switching off your brain and rewording the textbook. Really is that boring "
I think it’s well worth you listen in the training, your posts thus far have shown a dissonance with actually comprehending the subject (or an inability to effectively explain it accurately). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Equality is not always about treating everyone the same – it is about treating people in such a way that the outcome for each person can be the same. This means putting things in place to support people to achieve similar outcomes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Please elaborate
There's the idea of positive discrimination and positive stereotypes.
In my world discrimination is discrimination, there's no positive side to it.
To be honest the the answer to the whole thing is easy. Treat everyone the same"
Yes you are right but you would be surprised how discrimantive every day society can be and this is why it's enforced. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Had to do it on mandatory training every year. It's hard going. But basically don't stereo type and give everyone choices no matter if you think they can't make the choice for themselves. And give them the choice every time. Just because they couldn't choose last time doesn't mean they can't this time. It all runs into deprevation of liberties and mental health act too. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Why is it bollocks?
If I treat everyone the same they result isn't the same for them. I'll assume all blind people can read the signs, because everyone else manages. I'll let wheelchair users cope with the stairs, everyone else does. Women should book annual leave when the baby is due and be back when that leave is up.
OP? Is that you? "
Well, it's all bollocks and discrimination is discrimination so I should treat every exactly the same. I don't need training. What a waste of time.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why is it bollocks?
If I treat everyone the same they result isn't the same for them. I'll assume all blind people can read the signs, because everyone else manages. I'll let wheelchair users cope with the stairs, everyone else does. Women should book annual leave when the baby is due and be back when that leave is up.
OP? Is that you?
Well, it's all bollocks and discrimination is discrimination so I should treat every exactly the same. I don't need training. What a waste of time.
"
Ignorance is bliss and all that, eh? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why is it bollocks?
If I treat everyone the same they result isn't the same for them. I'll assume all blind people can read the signs, because everyone else manages. I'll let wheelchair users cope with the stairs, everyone else does. Women should book annual leave when the baby is due and be back when that leave is up.
OP? Is that you?
Well, it's all bollocks and discrimination is discrimination so I should treat every exactly the same. I don't need training. What a waste of time.
"
I get what you're saying, it's just legislation that staff should be made aware. I have to update my E&D training once a year. It's surprises me how management don't treat all staff equal though yet they're the ones promoting it. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Why is it bollocks?
If I treat everyone the same they result isn't the same for them. I'll assume all blind people can read the signs, because everyone else manages. I'll let wheelchair users cope with the stairs, everyone else does. Women should book annual leave when the baby is due and be back when that leave is up.
OP? Is that you?
Well, it's all bollocks and discrimination is discrimination so I should treat every exactly the same. I don't need training. What a waste of time.
Ignorance is bliss and all that, eh? "
I find the ignorant less than blissful.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why is it bollocks?
If I treat everyone the same they result isn't the same for them. I'll assume all blind people can read the signs, because everyone else manages. I'll let wheelchair users cope with the stairs, everyone else does. Women should book annual leave when the baby is due and be back when that leave is up.
OP? Is that you?
Well, it's all bollocks and discrimination is discrimination so I should treat every exactly the same. I don't need training. What a waste of time.
I get what you're saying, it's just legislation that staff should be made aware. I have to update my E&D training once a year. It's surprises me how management don't treat all staff equal though yet they're the ones promoting it. "
I think you’ve missed her point actually. You’re perpetuating the same fallacy that equal opps is treating people exactly the same, it isn’t. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why is it bollocks?
If I treat everyone the same they result isn't the same for them. I'll assume all blind people can read the signs, because everyone else manages. I'll let wheelchair users cope with the stairs, everyone else does. Women should book annual leave when the baby is due and be back when that leave is up.
OP? Is that you?
Well, it's all bollocks and discrimination is discrimination so I should treat every exactly the same. I don't need training. What a waste of time.
Ignorance is bliss and all that, eh?
I find the ignorant less than blissful.
"
That’s the burden we bear for not being. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Having the compassion to make yourself have the consideration to help make others that are not of an equal footing have the opportunity to achieve that level is not bullshit |
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"Equality is not always about treating everyone the same – it is about treating people in such a way that the outcome for each person can be the same. This means putting things in place to support people to achieve similar outcomes."
Which we know is impossible because the small matter of biology, psychology and genetics. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Why is it bollocks?
If I treat everyone the same they result isn't the same for them. I'll assume all blind people can read the signs, because everyone else manages. I'll let wheelchair users cope with the stairs, everyone else does. Women should book annual leave when the baby is due and be back when that leave is up.
OP? Is that you? "
OK let me re-phrase. All individuals are treated so they are no more advantaged/disadvantaged than another person.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why is it bollocks?
If I treat everyone the same they result isn't the same for them. I'll assume all blind people can read the signs, because everyone else manages. I'll let wheelchair users cope with the stairs, everyone else does. Women should book annual leave when the baby is due and be back when that leave is up.
OP? Is that you?
OK let me re-phrase. All individuals are treated so they are no more advantaged/disadvantaged than another person.
"
Learning is happening. That course was well worthwhile. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Equality is not always about treating everyone the same – it is about treating people in such a way that the outcome for each person can be the same. This means putting things in place to support people to achieve similar outcomes.
Which we know is impossible because the small matter of biology, psychology and genetics. "
My wording didn’t posit absolutes. |
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"Equality is not always about treating everyone the same – it is about treating people in such a way that the outcome for each person can be the same. This means putting things in place to support people to achieve similar outcomes.
Which we know is impossible because the small matter of biology, psychology and genetics.
My wording didn’t posit absolutes. "
It's supposed to be about equal opportunities, not equal outcomes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Equality is not always about treating everyone the same – it is about treating people in such a way that the outcome for each person can be the same. This means putting things in place to support people to achieve similar outcomes.
Which we know is impossible because the small matter of biology, psychology and genetics.
My wording didn’t posit absolutes.
It's supposed to be about equal opportunities, not equal outcomes. "
There’s a course you can go on. |
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"Equality is not always about treating everyone the same – it is about treating people in such a way that the outcome for each person can be the same. This means putting things in place to support people to achieve similar outcomes.
Which we know is impossible because the small matter of biology, psychology and genetics.
My wording didn’t posit absolutes.
It's supposed to be about equal opportunities, not equal outcomes.
There’s a course you can go on. "
No I'm good, i don't need big brother telling me that science is now wrong think because compassion is now more important than facts |
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E & D has a positive impact on the workforce and helps deliver businesses to become more successful in their outcomes and unless you work in HR or training departments of organisations not many get the true meaning of the impact it can have on a business and their workforce as the OP has demonstrated  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Equality is not always about treating everyone the same – it is about treating people in such a way that the outcome for each person can be the same. This means putting things in place to support people to achieve similar outcomes.
Which we know is impossible because the small matter of biology, psychology and genetics.
My wording didn’t posit absolutes.
It's supposed to be about equal opportunities, not equal outcomes.
There’s a course you can go on.
No I'm good, i don't need big brother telling me that science is now wrong think because compassion is now more important than facts"
Yeah, fuck compassion. |
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"E & D has a positive impact on the workforce and helps deliver businesses to become more successful in their outcomes and unless you work in HR or training departments of organisations not many get the true meaning of the impact it can have on a business and their workforce as the OP has demonstrated "
Any studies to support those claims? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"E & D has a positive impact on the workforce and helps deliver businesses to become more successful in their outcomes and unless you work in HR or training departments of organisations not many get the true meaning of the impact it can have on a business and their workforce as the OP has demonstrated
Any studies to support those claims? "
Literally a shitload of them |
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"E & D has a positive impact on the workforce and helps deliver businesses to become more successful in their outcomes and unless you work in HR or training departments of organisations not many get the true meaning of the impact it can have on a business and their workforce as the OP has demonstrated absolutely loads that’s why it is mandatory in inductions and training within organisations. Google it I’m sure loads of research will come up
Any studies to support those claims? "
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"E & D has a positive impact on the workforce and helps deliver businesses to become more successful in their outcomes and unless you work in HR or training departments of organisations not many get the true meaning of the impact it can have on a business and their workforce as the OP has demonstrated
Any studies to support those claims?
Literally a shitload of them "
Great, name the highest quality ones please. Presumably they'll be from business journals? |
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"E & D has a positive impact on the workforce and helps deliver businesses to become more successful in their outcomes and unless you work in HR or training departments of organisations not many get the true meaning of the impact it can have on a business and their workforce as the OP has demonstrated absolutely loads that’s why it is mandatory in inductions and training within organisations. Google it I’m sure loads of research will come up
Any studies to support those claims? "
I did, in fact a meta analysis of 140 studies says you are wrong. But some studies are better than others so i wondered which you were basing your statement on? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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From doing this course the only thing you really learn is we live in an unequal and diversive society.
The course is bollocks because it's all ideological and we know it's not the reality of the world.
Does make me laugh when I directly compare to my company's actions, they break all rules. Probably not the wisest decision to make all staff do this, might open up a can of worms. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"E & D has a positive impact on the workforce and helps deliver businesses to become more successful in their outcomes and unless you work in HR or training departments of organisations not many get the true meaning of the impact it can have on a business and their workforce as the OP has demonstrated
Any studies to support those claims?
Literally a shitload of them
Great, name the highest quality ones please. Presumably they'll be from business journals?"
Mine would be mainly from a Social Policy perspective but you’ll find them in the business journals too. I’m not gonna go do it for you lol, I’m just here to get laid  |
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"E & D has a positive impact on the workforce and helps deliver businesses to become more successful in their outcomes and unless you work in HR or training departments of organisations not many get the true meaning of the impact it can have on a business and their workforce as the OP has demonstrated
Any studies to support those claims?
Literally a shitload of them
Great, name the highest quality ones please. Presumably they'll be from business journals?
Mine would be mainly from a Social Policy perspective but you’ll find them in the business journals too. I’m not gonna go do it for you lol, I’m just here to get laid "
I'm pretty sure they don't exist. I'm sure there are some gender studies professors who make the claim though. The funny thing is that advocates of diversity are actually uninterested in the only diversity that really matters - diversity of thought. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"E & D has a positive impact on the workforce and helps deliver businesses to become more successful in their outcomes and unless you work in HR or training departments of organisations not many get the true meaning of the impact it can have on a business and their workforce as the OP has demonstrated
Any studies to support those claims?
Literally a shitload of them
Great, name the highest quality ones please. Presumably they'll be from business journals?
Mine would be mainly from a Social Policy perspective but you’ll find them in the business journals too. I’m not gonna go do it for you lol, I’m just here to get laid
I'm pretty sure they don't exist. I'm sure there are some gender studies professors who make the claim though. The funny thing is that advocates of diversity are actually uninterested in the only diversity that really matters - diversity of thought. "
Any studies to support that claim? |
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"E & D has a positive impact on the workforce and helps deliver businesses to become more successful in their outcomes and unless you work in HR or training departments of organisations not many get the true meaning of the impact it can have on a business and their workforce as the OP has demonstrated absolutely loads that’s why it is mandatory in inductions and training within organisations. Google it I’m sure loads of research will come up
Any studies to support those claims?
I did, in fact a meta analysis of 140 studies says you are wrong. But some studies are better than others so i wondered which you were basing your statement on?"
my information is based via CIPD chartered institute personnel development .... have loads of studies as has REC Recruitment and Employment Confederation ... loads of factsheets and literature on the subject written by HR directors of multimillion pound organisations like HSBC ... etc ... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"[Removed by poster at 09/05/18 22:10:12]
It became not worth it when compassion was labelled a negative.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. "
 whoop whoop |
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"E & D has a positive impact on the workforce and helps deliver businesses to become more successful in their outcomes and unless you work in HR or training departments of organisations not many get the true meaning of the impact it can have on a business and their workforce as the OP has demonstrated
Any studies to support those claims?
Literally a shitload of them
Great, name the highest quality ones please. Presumably they'll be from business journals?
Mine would be mainly from a Social Policy perspective but you’ll find them in the business journals too. I’m not gonna go do it for you lol, I’m just here to get laid
I'm pretty sure they don't exist. I'm sure there are some gender studies professors who make the claim though. The funny thing is that advocates of diversity are actually uninterested in the only diversity that really matters - diversity of thought.
Any studies to support that claim? "
Post & Byron, academy of management journal vol 58, #5 - have fun |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"E & D has a positive impact on the workforce and helps deliver businesses to become more successful in their outcomes and unless you work in HR or training departments of organisations not many get the true meaning of the impact it can have on a business and their workforce as the OP has demonstrated
Any studies to support those claims?
Literally a shitload of them
Great, name the highest quality ones please. Presumably they'll be from business journals?
Mine would be mainly from a Social Policy perspective but you’ll find them in the business journals too. I’m not gonna go do it for you lol, I’m just here to get laid
I'm pretty sure they don't exist. I'm sure there are some gender studies professors who make the claim though. The funny thing is that advocates of diversity are actually uninterested in the only diversity that really matters - diversity of thought.
Any studies to support that claim?
Post & Byron, academy of management journal vol 58, #5 - have fun "
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"Has anyone had to go through this bollocks at work?
It's a mandatory requirement for all our staff to college this NVQ level booklet and it's utter garbage!!!
"
I am even in a film! "How does diversity help lumpsum project implementation". |
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"E & D has a positive impact on the workforce and helps deliver businesses to become more successful in their outcomes and unless you work in HR or training departments of organisations not many get the true meaning of the impact it can have on a business and their workforce as the OP has demonstrated absolutely loads that’s why it is mandatory in inductions and training within organisations. Google it I’m sure loads of research will come up
Any studies to support those claims?
I did, in fact a meta analysis of 140 studies says you are wrong. But some studies are better than others so i wondered which you were basing your statement on? my information is based via CIPD chartered institute personnel development .... have loads of studies as has REC Recruitment and Employment Confederation ... loads of factsheets and literature on the subject written by HR directors of multimillion pound organisations like HSBC ... etc ... "
Yeah i just need the journal reference thanks, peer reviewed stuff is the generally accepted quality benchmark |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"E & D has a positive impact on the workforce and helps deliver businesses to become more successful in their outcomes and unless you work in HR or training departments of organisations not many get the true meaning of the impact it can have on a business and their workforce as the OP has demonstrated
Any studies to support those claims?
Literally a shitload of them
Great, name the highest quality ones please. Presumably they'll be from business journals?
Mine would be mainly from a Social Policy perspective but you’ll find them in the business journals too. I’m not gonna go do it for you lol, I’m just here to get laid
I'm pretty sure they don't exist. I'm sure there are some gender studies professors who make the claim though. The funny thing is that advocates of diversity are actually uninterested in the only diversity that really matters - diversity of thought.
Any studies to support that claim?
Post & Byron, academy of management journal vol 58, #5 - have fun "
Women on boards and firm financial performance one? |
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"E & D has a positive impact on the workforce and helps deliver businesses to become more successful in their outcomes and unless you work in HR or training departments of organisations not many get the true meaning of the impact it can have on a business and their workforce as the OP has demonstrated
Any studies to support those claims?
Literally a shitload of them
Great, name the highest quality ones please. Presumably they'll be from business journals?
Mine would be mainly from a Social Policy perspective but you’ll find them in the business journals too. I’m not gonna go do it for you lol, I’m just here to get laid
I'm pretty sure they don't exist. I'm sure there are some gender studies professors who make the claim though. The funny thing is that advocates of diversity are actually uninterested in the only diversity that really matters - diversity of thought.
Any studies to support that claim?
Post & Byron, academy of management journal vol 58, #5 - have fun
Women on boards and firm financial performance one? "
Yup, before you get excited about the abstract, you do need to read the whole thing.
You can also try:
Pletzer, Nikolova, Kedzior & Voelpel 'Does gender matter?' Although its not from a high end journal
Or
Alice Eagly "when passion advocates meet research", again, not the best journal but debunks a lot of things found on 'fact sheets' |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I hate free learning.
HOW DARE THEY PAY ME TO LEARN?!"
I'll quite happily pass it on, you can take the qualification by all means.
It's not exactly going to make my CV lol
Although my manager is trying to convince the team that this all does looks great on a CV.......I think not lol |
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The question was always "How do we get more women into engineering?" My answer was always "Do you think the beauty industry worries about how to get more men into their industry? Or midwifery perhaps?". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"E & D has a positive impact on the workforce and helps deliver businesses to become more successful in their outcomes and unless you work in HR or training departments of organisations not many get the true meaning of the impact it can have on a business and their workforce as the OP has demonstrated
Any studies to support those claims?
Literally a shitload of them
Great, name the highest quality ones please. Presumably they'll be from business journals?
Mine would be mainly from a Social Policy perspective but you’ll find them in the business journals too. I’m not gonna go do it for you lol, I’m just here to get laid
I'm pretty sure they don't exist. I'm sure there are some gender studies professors who make the claim though. The funny thing is that advocates of diversity are actually uninterested in the only diversity that really matters - diversity of thought.
Any studies to support that claim?
Post & Byron, academy of management journal vol 58, #5 - have fun
Women on boards and firm financial performance one?
Yup, before you get excited about the abstract, you do need to read the whole thing.
You can also try:
Pletzer, Nikolova, Kedzior & Voelpel 'Does gender matter?' Although its not from a high end journal
Or
Alice Eagly "when passion advocates meet research", again, not the best journal but debunks a lot of things found on 'fact sheets'"
So we shouldn’t try and support others in essence because it’s impossible? Apologies that’s terrible paraphrasing but I’m trying to glean that that’s what I’m going to find in these researchers’ view? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" The question was always "How do we get more women into engineering?" My answer was always "Do you think the beauty industry worries about how to get more men into their industry? Or midwifery perhaps?"."
Nah that’s you always moaning about your industry. |
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" The question was always "How do we get more women into engineering?" My answer was always "Do you think the beauty industry worries about how to get more men into their industry? Or midwifery perhaps?".
Nah that’s you always moaning about your industry. "
You don't have to be a cunt to be an engineer....... But it sure helps your career if you've got one!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" The question was always "How do we get more women into engineering?" My answer was always "Do you think the beauty industry worries about how to get more men into their industry? Or midwifery perhaps?".
Nah that’s you always moaning about your industry. "
Im in the emginerring industry and woman less qualified for the job aretwice as likely as i am to be given a job in the name of diversity
And well he has a point
Why arnt people bothered that woman dominate the health care industry, the fashion industry, and teaching and child care why not put insentives in place for more men in those jobs...i mean its only fair amd isnt that what equality is about..being fair to all |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" The question was always "How do we get more women into engineering?" My answer was always "Do you think the beauty industry worries about how to get more men into their industry? Or midwifery perhaps?".
Nah that’s you always moaning about your industry.
You don't have to be a cunt to be an engineer....... But it sure helps your career if you've got one! "
You say that every time!  |
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" The question was always "How do we get more women into engineering?" My answer was always "Do you think the beauty industry worries about how to get more men into their industry? Or midwifery perhaps?".
Nah that’s you always moaning about your industry.
You don't have to be a cunt to be an engineer....... But it sure helps your career if you've got one!
You say that every time! "
I'll stop when it ceases to be true. |
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A few years back I got nominated to go on one, which pissed me off quite a bit, as there were other work colleagues far more needing to go on it than me. However, over lunch I clicked with a certain female and we.... err... became good friends, so it was a very worthwhile and beneficial course! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" Lol that was the other one! " How do we get a more ethnically diverse work force? " erm... move the company out of Wiltshire I guess! YOU CUNTS! "
No. You recruit in London and pay people to relocate, silly. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Equality is not always about treating everyone the same – it is about treating people in such a way that the outcome for each person can be the same. This means putting things in place to support people to achieve similar outcomes."
Excellent interpretation
Thank you x |
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