FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Animal Cruelty?
Animal Cruelty?
Jump to: Newest in thread
The Grand National took place earlier today and the debate continues as to whether it is cruel and barbaric or not.
I’ve seen this debate presented from a different angle on the forum. If you eat meat then you have no right to claim any sport or treatment of animals is cruel or should you show empathy for them. This is my understanding of what I’ve read, I could be wrong but for the purpose of the thread it’s a concept I’d like to hear your view on.
As a meat eater do you think cruelty to animals is wrong? This includes the inhumane slaughter of them for consumption
Do you think the fact you’re a meat eater means you advocate cruelty to animals?
As meat eaters are we hypocrites getting upset about cruelty to animals when we eat them?
Vegetarians do you believe we are being hypocritical?
Vegetarians do you think there is a difference between being a meat eater and being cruel to animals?
A question for everyone, do you think zoos and safari parks are cruel?
I know this is a contentious subject so if you feel the need to reply in quote, please be respectful. Everyone is entitled to their opinion even if it differs from your own. Feel free to post views/opinions on the topic beyond what I’ve asked, my questions were just a starting point  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
 |
By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
I eat meat, it is pleasurable to me. I understand the argument that the sport is also pleasure and so we are engaging in cruelty for pleasure.
I am happy with my hypocrisy in this case.
I choose meat I believe to be humanely raised and slaughtered. I watch the Grand National and enjoy it knowing the horses have been bred to race and have worked hard to get there. Horses are big and will refuse to do things they really don't want to do.
I don't want pets and other animals to be tortured, starved, left untreated if unwell.
I'd rather be treated like and animal and put down when it's not sensible or feasible to be fixed. Cruelty to humans bothers me a lot more than cruelty to animals.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
We both love racing and go quite regularly to many meetings. We also fully understand why some don't like racing. The thing I (male) don't like is when other people who are pro racing try to ridicule those who dislike racing on animal welfare grounds. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Sadly because of the barbarity of some of our fellow 'men' its necessary to have safe places where some species of animals can live..
Some enclosures may not be perfect but it's preferable to extinction because some moron thinks ivory looks good or a tiger's penis will enhance their masculinity.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Sadly because of the barbarity of some of our fellow 'men' its necessary to have safe places where some species of animals can live..
Some enclosures may not be perfect but it's preferable to extinction because some moron thinks ivory looks good or a tiger's penis will enhance their masculinity.. "
Indeed. I have a hierarchy of animals. I'm not going to lose sleep if I kill a mouse.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
As I said on the other thread , I see every animal in the same way . I know I don’t need to eat meat to live , so I choose not to . I know that every animal has feelings and seeing the animals before they are slaughtered , the fear and trepidation , is more than enough to help me make this choice .
So when meat eaters go on about how cruel it is to see animals being used for our pleasure , what do they think happens to create their bacon butty , or their roast dinner ?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sadly because of the barbarity of some of our fellow 'men' its necessary to have safe places where some species of animals can live..
Some enclosures may not be perfect but it's preferable to extinction because some moron thinks ivory looks good or a tiger's penis will enhance their masculinity..
Indeed. I have a hierarchy of animals. I'm not going to lose sleep if I kill a mouse.
"
On a happier note we have a pair of blackbirds sitting on a nest in the log pile..
It's exciting.. ?? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I am a meat eater and to be totally honest I don’t ever think about it, I buy it, cook it and then eat it. Until the thread about the grand national I wasn’t even aware so many people were so against horse racing, opened my eyes but I am one of these people that don’t give those kinds of things much thought, probably very ignorant of me I know.
Geeky x |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I eat meat, it is pleasurable to me. I understand the argument that the sport is also pleasure and so we are engaging in cruelty for pleasure.
I am happy with my hypocrisy in this case.
I choose meat I believe to be humanely raised and slaughtered. I watch the Grand National and enjoy it knowing the horses have been bred to race and have worked hard to get there. Horses are big and will refuse to do things they really don't want to do.
I don't want pets and other animals to be tortured, starved, left untreated if unwell.
I'd rather be treated like and animal and put down when it's not sensible or feasible to be fixed. Cruelty to humans bothers me a lot more than cruelty to animals.
"
Euthanasia now there’s another contentious issue . I’ll let you start that thread  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"We both love racing and go quite regularly to many meetings. We also fully understand why some don't like racing. The thing I (male) don't like is when other people who are pro racing try to ridicule those who dislike racing on animal welfare grounds."
Everyone is entitled to their opinion I agree  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sadly because of the barbarity of some of our fellow 'men' its necessary to have safe places where some species of animals can live..
Some enclosures may not be perfect but it's preferable to extinction because some moron thinks ivory looks good or a tiger's penis will enhance their masculinity.. "
Are you a meat eater? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"As I said on the other thread , I see every animal in the same way . I know I don’t need to eat meat to live , so I choose not to . I know that every animal has feelings and seeing the animals before they are slaughtered , the fear and trepidation , is more than enough to help me make this choice .
So when meat eaters go on about how cruel it is to see animals being used for our pleasure , what do they think happens to create their bacon butty , or their roast dinner ?
"
Are you vegan or vegetarian? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sadly because of the barbarity of some of our fellow 'men' its necessary to have safe places where some species of animals can live..
Some enclosures may not be perfect but it's preferable to extinction because some moron thinks ivory looks good or a tiger's penis will enhance their masculinity..
Indeed. I have a hierarchy of animals. I'm not going to lose sleep if I kill a mouse.
On a happier note we have a pair of blackbirds sitting on a nest in the log pile..
It's exciting.. ?? "
Be prepared to intervene when a cat turns up, there’ll be an almighty ruckus |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
unfortunately if we didnt have zoos and safari some of the animals would be extinct because poachers and us taking their habitat and killing them for fur meat |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I am a meat eater and to be totally honest I don’t ever think about it, I buy it, cook it and then eat it. Until the thread about the grand national I wasn’t even aware so many people were so against horse racing, opened my eyes but I am one of these people that don’t give those kinds of things much thought, probably very ignorant of me I know.
Geeky x"
Ignorant or comfortable with your choice? You seem comfortable to me |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I respect an animal. I’m at the top of the food chain, if I can eat it, I probably will. But I respect that animal as it will have given its life to feed me.
Don’t tell me I don’t need to eat meat. If I was vegetarian, I couldn’t lift my tools for work.
I eat meat. And I hate seeing animals mistreated or in distress. I have a heart. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"unfortunately if we didnt have zoos and safari some of the animals would be extinct because poachers and us taking their habitat and killing them for fur meat"
Do you think it’s ignorance and education would help? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I respect an animal. I’m at the top of the food chain, if I can eat it, I probably will. But I respect that animal as it will have given its life to feed me.
Don’t tell me I don’t need to eat meat. If I was vegetarian, I couldn’t lift my tools for work.
I eat meat. And I hate seeing animals mistreated or in distress. I have a heart. "
Is that a humble brag? Your tool being so heavy |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
In my view there is a Maddock difference between raising animals for slaughter and animal abuse.
The argument that meat esters cannot be empathetic towards animal cruelty is a simplistic one with emotive words used to get a rise out of the carnivores.
As for animals used in sport, again its different and horse racing especially has come a long way. Whip use is restricted and monitored (jockeys have been disqualified or fined on the past for over use), horses are checked after a race for signs of over exertion etc. No horses have died in the grand national for a number of years now. Fences are lower and laid now, not cut down hedges.
Zoos and safari parks play a laddie part in conservation these days as the human population seem to be awesome at ruining habitat and decimating natural population.
Trophy hunting I disagree with. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I eat meat, and drink milk, but I do try to be mindful of where my meat comes from. Although, I struggle more and more with how livestock are treated. I’ve already said that I think it’s unfair to equate killing an animal for food to killing one for sport.
The Hindu religion think that the pain of the animal transfers to the flesh, therefore, when you eat the flesh, you also take in their pain. This has always resonated with me, because we seem so far removed from being aware that the food on our plate was once a living animal. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We both love racing and go quite regularly to many meetings. We also fully understand why some don't like racing. The thing I (male) don't like is when other people who are pro racing try to ridicule those who dislike racing on animal welfare grounds."
I fully agree. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Humans are evolved to eat meat, whether that is the healthiest option is a different debate.
With regards to horse racing the animals are born to run, they are undoubtedly bred also to be as fast as they can be. There can be no doubt that they are well looked after however should they be struck to win a race? Not something I like although whips are designed to encourage and not harm.
Deaths of horses at races are proportionately small but is any death justified for sport?
It's a difficult one to argue one way or another. I'd sway to the argument racing is a well governed and responsible sport overall. The public love to see a fast horse run. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Dear, oh dear. I sometimes have to roll my eyes at the strange notions some people get in their heads.
I eat meet, lots of it and i love it. I also consider myself an animal lover and someone who is ecologically aware. There is no hypocrisy here.
I have worked with dairy, beef, sheep and pigs and i have never witnessed anything that i would consider cruel.
Farm animals lend themselves to domestication because it is beneficial to them, if it wasn't they could never be tamed. They are protected from the elements, disease and predation. They never have to worry about finding food as it is freely provided for them. On the whole such animals live a happy and contented life even if it is cut a little short. In return for this they provide us with food, clothing and a plethora of other materials.
This is part of the natural order of things, consider it a service. Provided that the highest standards of animal husbandry are maitained and slaughter is performed in the most humane way possible how can this be considered cruel?
They are birthed, cared for and slaughtered, this completes the cycle. Respect animals but also understand the process, it is a mutually beneficial one. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"In my view there is a Maddock difference between raising animals for slaughter and animal abuse.
The argument that meat esters cannot be empathetic towards animal cruelty is a simplistic one with emotive words used to get a rise out of the carnivores.
As for animals used in sport, again its different and horse racing especially has come a long way. Whip use is restricted and monitored (jockeys have been disqualified or fined on the past for over use), horses are checked after a race for signs of over exertion etc. No horses have died in the grand national for a number of years now. Fences are lower and laid now, not cut down hedges.
Zoos and safari parks play a laddie part in conservation these days as the human population seem to be awesome at ruining habitat and decimating natural population.
Trophy hunting I disagree with. "
A very reasoned view |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"In my view there is a Maddock difference between raising animals for slaughter and animal abuse.
The argument that meat esters cannot be empathetic towards animal cruelty is a simplistic one with emotive words used to get a rise out of the carnivores.
As for animals used in sport, again its different and horse racing especially has come a long way. Whip use is restricted and monitored (jockeys have been disqualified or fined on the past for over use), horses are checked after a race for signs of over exertion etc. No horses have died in the grand national for a number of years now. Fences are lower and laid now, not cut down hedges.
Zoos and safari parks play a laddie part in conservation these days as the human population seem to be awesome at ruining habitat and decimating natural population.
Trophy hunting I disagree with.
A very reasoned view "
Despite all the bloody typos   |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"unfortunately if we didnt have zoos and safari some of the animals would be extinct because poachers and us taking their habitat and killing them for fur meat"
Is letting a species become extinct worse that containing a wild animal and its offspring for ever in an enclosure where its basic needs will never be met? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sadly because of the barbarity of some of our fellow 'men' its necessary to have safe places where some species of animals can live..
Some enclosures may not be perfect but it's preferable to extinction because some moron thinks ivory looks good or a tiger's penis will enhance their masculinity..
Indeed. I have a hierarchy of animals. I'm not going to lose sleep if I kill a mouse.
On a happier note we have a pair of blackbirds sitting on a nest in the log pile..
It's exciting.. ??
Be prepared to intervene when a cat turns up, there’ll be an almighty ruckus "
Hoping that our 2 collies will deter, have the nest area partially screened off..
We did think it's a risky place to nest as it's easily within a cats reach if any show their face.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I eat meat, and drink milk, but I do try to be mindful of where my meat comes from. Although, I struggle more and more with how livestock are treated. I’ve already said that I think it’s unfair to equate killing an animal for food to killing one for sport.
The Hindu religion think that the pain of the animal transfers to the flesh, therefore, when you eat the flesh, you also take in their pain. This has always resonated with me, because we seem so far removed from being aware that the food on our plate was once a living animal. "
I've been reminded on many occasions during lambing. Wandering around fields in the dark looking for a missing lamb. Dragging a ewe heavily in lamb with triplets out of a pond when she decided to go for a swim and got stuck. You wouldn’t believe some of the stories |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"In my view there is a Maddock difference between raising animals for slaughter and animal abuse.
The argument that meat esters cannot be empathetic towards animal cruelty is a simplistic one with emotive words used to get a rise out of the carnivores.
As for animals used in sport, again its different and horse racing especially has come a long way. Whip use is restricted and monitored (jockeys have been disqualified or fined on the past for over use), horses are checked after a race for signs of over exertion etc. No horses have died in the grand national for a number of years now. Fences are lower and laid now, not cut down hedges.
Zoos and safari parks play a laddie part in conservation these days as the human population seem to be awesome at ruining habitat and decimating natural population.
Trophy hunting I disagree with.
A very reasoned view
Despite all the bloody typos "
The spelling police will be along shortly  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Humans are evolved to eat meat, whether that is the healthiest option is a different debate.
With regards to horse racing the animals are born to run, they are undoubtedly bred also to be as fast as they can be. There can be no doubt that they are well looked after however should they be struck to win a race? Not something I like although whips are designed to encourage and not harm.
Deaths of horses at races are proportionately small but is any death justified for sport?
It's a difficult one to argue one way or another. I'd sway to the argument racing is a well governed and responsible sport overall. The public love to see a fast horse run."
It is a difficult topic |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Dear, oh dear. I sometimes have to roll my eyes at the strange notions some people get in their heads.
I eat meet, lots of it and i love it. I also consider myself an animal lover and someone who is ecologically aware. There is no hypocrisy here.
I have worked with dairy, beef, sheep and pigs and i have never witnessed anything that i would consider cruel.
Farm animals lend themselves to domestication because it is beneficial to them, if it wasn't they could never be tamed. They are protected from the elements, disease and predation. They never have to worry about finding food as it is freely provided for them. On the whole such animals live a happy and contented life even if it is cut a little short. In return for this they provide us with food, clothing and a plethora of other materials.
This is part of the natural order of things, consider it a service. Provided that the highest standards of animal husbandry are maitained and slaughter is performed in the most humane way possible how can this be considered cruel?
They are birthed, cared for and slaughtered, this completes the cycle. Respect animals but also understand the process, it is a mutually beneficial one."
The cycle of life is a contentious one |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I eat meat but don't like cruelty to animals. Interesting thread to read. "
Are we truly carnivores then? I feel I’m being pushed into being nasty towards animals if I eat meat. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I eat meat but don't like cruelty to animals. Interesting thread to read.
Are we truly carnivores then? I feel I’m being pushed into being nasty towards animals if I eat meat. "
Did you just roll your eyes?  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Dear, oh dear. I sometimes have to roll my eyes at the strange notions some people get in their heads.
I eat meet, lots of it and i love it. I also consider myself an animal lover and someone who is ecologically aware. There is no hypocrisy here.
I have worked with dairy, beef, sheep and pigs and i have never witnessed anything that i would consider cruel.
Farm animals lend themselves to domestication because it is beneficial to them, if it wasn't they could never be tamed. They are protected from the elements, disease and predation. They never have to worry about finding food as it is freely provided for them. On the whole such animals live a happy and contented life even if it is cut a little short. In return for this they provide us with food, clothing and a plethora of other materials.
This is part of the natural order of things, consider it a service. Provided that the highest standards of animal husbandry are maitained and slaughter is performed in the most humane way possible how can this be considered cruel?
They are birthed, cared for and slaughtered, this completes the cycle. Respect animals but also understand the process, it is a mutually beneficial one.
The cycle of life is a contentious one "
Perhaps, but if you truly understand it them it's actually quite straightforward. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I eat meat but don't like cruelty to animals. Interesting thread to read.
Are we truly carnivores then? I feel I’m being pushed into being nasty towards animals if I eat meat.
Did you just roll your eyes? "
I did. Don’t worry, I’ve already locked my self when I signed up.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I eat meat but don't like cruelty to animals. Interesting thread to read.
Are we truly carnivores then? I feel I’m being pushed into being nasty towards animals if I eat meat.
Did you just roll your eyes?
I did. Don’t worry, I’ve already locked my self when I signed up. "
Phew |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I eat meat but don't like cruelty to animals. Interesting thread to read.
Are we truly carnivores then? I feel I’m being pushed into being nasty towards animals if I eat meat. "
It’s difficult to see how it isn’t nasty to eat animals , despite farmers and those who see animals as nothing more than a commodity trying to convince us otherwise .
It is clearly not necessary to eat meat as anything between half a billion and over a billion vegetarians live in the world today .
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Dear, oh dear. I sometimes have to roll my eyes at the strange notions some people get in their heads.
I eat meet, lots of it and i love it. I also consider myself an animal lover and someone who is ecologically aware. There is no hypocrisy here.
I have worked with dairy, beef, sheep and pigs and i have never witnessed anything that i would consider cruel.
Farm animals lend themselves to domestication because it is beneficial to them, if it wasn't they could never be tamed. They are protected from the elements, disease and predation. They never have to worry about finding food as it is freely provided for them. On the whole such animals live a happy and contented life even if it is cut a little short. In return for this they provide us with food, clothing and a plethora of other materials.
This is part of the natural order of things, consider it a service. Provided that the highest standards of animal husbandry are maitained and slaughter is performed in the most humane way possible how can this be considered cruel?
They are birthed, cared for and slaughtered, this completes the cycle. Respect animals but also understand the process, it is a mutually beneficial one."
So when you say you have never witnessed anything cruel , how do you explain the fear as the animals are being lined up for slaughter . The look in their eyes , the shaking , the cries ?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I eat meat but don't like cruelty to animals. Interesting thread to read.
Are we truly carnivores then? I feel I’m being pushed into being nasty towards animals if I eat meat.
It’s difficult to see how it isn’t nasty to eat animals , despite farmers and those who see animals as nothing more than a commodity trying to convince us otherwise .
It is clearly not necessary to eat meat as anything between half a billion and over a billion vegetarians live in the world today .
"
I think you're missing the point, i refer you to my earlier posts. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I eat meat but don't like cruelty to animals. Interesting thread to read.
Are we truly carnivores then? I feel I’m being pushed into being nasty towards animals if I eat meat.
It’s difficult to see how it isn’t nasty to eat animals , despite farmers and those who see animals as nothing more than a commodity trying to convince us otherwise .
It is clearly not necessary to eat meat as anything between half a billion and over a billion vegetarians live in the world today .
I think you're missing the point, i refer you to my earlier posts."
And I refer you to my answer to your earlier post |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Dear, oh dear. I sometimes have to roll my eyes at the strange notions some people get in their heads.
I eat meet, lots of it and i love it. I also consider myself an animal lover and someone who is ecologically aware. There is no hypocrisy here.
I have worked with dairy, beef, sheep and pigs and i have never witnessed anything that i would consider cruel.
Farm animals lend themselves to domestication because it is beneficial to them, if it wasn't they could never be tamed. They are protected from the elements, disease and predation. They never have to worry about finding food as it is freely provided for them. On the whole such animals live a happy and contented life even if it is cut a little short. In return for this they provide us with food, clothing and a plethora of other materials.
This is part of the natural order of things, consider it a service. Provided that the highest standards of animal husbandry are maitained and slaughter is performed in the most humane way possible how can this be considered cruel?
They are birthed, cared for and slaughtered, this completes the cycle. Respect animals but also understand the process, it is a mutually beneficial one.
So when you say you have never witnessed anything cruel , how do you explain the fear as the animals are being lined up for slaughter . The look in their eyes , the shaking , the cries ?
"
This is the reason for your lambasting of meat eaters? Have you ever visited a slaughterhouse? Whilst i admit that the end treatment may not be ideal this is a result of market forces. The answer is not to stop people from eating meat but to change the way they view it and pay more for it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I eat meat but don't like cruelty to animals. Interesting thread to read.
Are we truly carnivores then? I feel I’m being pushed into being nasty towards animals if I eat meat.
It’s difficult to see how it isn’t nasty to eat animals , despite farmers and those who see animals as nothing more than a commodity trying to convince us otherwise .
It is clearly not necessary to eat meat as anything between half a billion and over a billion vegetarians live in the world today .
"
I agree. I can't see anything nice or calm about leading animals to slaughter.
I still eat meat though. I'm a hypocrite. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
It's a bit disingenuous to suggest farmed animals stay in their fields out of a sense of wellbeing. They've been bred to be more docile and handled- we'd all be non-beef eaters if it'd had been Heck or nothing. The sheep are hefted to their field because they are taught by their mothers.
Having said that, a sick or stressed animal is worthless. I've seen dreadful cruelty on some farms and the best of care on others.
In New Zealand, I saw many sheep being slaughtered- we used to do them ourselves- and it's not pleasant. But we ate them. We export live sheep to Arabia and I think the UK does too- now, that IS cruel. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Well, the slaughterhouses are the point when cruelty comes into it.
I believe that if we chose to eat meat, we should know how an animal is reared and the stages, but more crucially, know exactly what the slaughter process is and only then, if we chose to eat meat, can we justify it.
A steak on a plate is not just food- it's part of a dead animal who was born to be slaughtered. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Has anyone actually seen meat animals slaughtered?
Yes."
Ive also looked at butchering my own meat from my butcher, and I’ve kept chickens. I loved my chickens.
A chicken cost me £6 to buy from a farm, one of them was really ill and I took it to the vet. A £40 vet bill kept its health up.
I could have killed it fed my family that weekend and bought another for another £6.
I care about an animals welfare, but I’d be a terrible businessman. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's a bit disingenuous to suggest farmed animals stay in their fields out of a sense of wellbeing. They've been bred to be more docile and handled- we'd all be non-beef eaters if it'd had been Heck or nothing. The sheep are hefted to their field because they are taught by their mothers.
Having said that, a sick or stressed animal is worthless. I've seen dreadful cruelty on some farms and the best of care on others.
In New Zealand, I saw many sheep being slaughtered- we used to do them ourselves- and it's not pleasant. But we ate them. We export live sheep to Arabia and I think the UK does too- now, that IS cruel."
That i do agree with, the practice of slaughter to produce Kosher and Halal meat is unacceptable. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Has anyone actually seen meat animals slaughtered?
Yes.
Ive also looked at butchering my own meat from my butcher, and I’ve kept chickens. I loved my chickens.
A chicken cost me £6 to buy from a farm, one of them was really ill and I took it to the vet. A £40 vet bill kept its health up.
I could have killed it fed my family that weekend and bought another for another £6.
I care about an animals welfare, but I’d be a terrible businessman. "
You’ve done it again |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
As you'll know, only the front end of a halal ( not sure about Sechita) animal) is eaten and the rest goes for general consumption.
I fundementally disagree with Halal, yet because it's not labeled such, I eat it.
I believe there is a Jewish saying that he who wants to eat meat, should first kill an animal. That has a lot of sense to it. Respect. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As you'll know, only the front end of a halal ( not sure about Sechita) animal) is eaten and the rest goes for general consumption.
I fundementally disagree with Halal, yet because it's not labeled such, I eat it.
I believe there is a Jewish saying that he who wants to eat meat, should first kill an animal. That has a lot of sense to it. Respect."
I don’t think you have to kill an Animal, I think it’s, be prepared to kill an animal. *i might be wrong. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It's a bit disingenuous to suggest farmed animals stay in their fields out of a sense of wellbeing. They've been bred to be more docile and handled- we'd all be non-beef eaters if it'd had been Heck or nothing. The sheep are hefted to their field because they are taught by their mothers.
Having said that, a sick or stressed animal is worthless. I've seen dreadful cruelty on some farms and the best of care on others.
In New Zealand, I saw many sheep being slaughtered- we used to do them ourselves- and it's not pleasant. But we ate them. We export live sheep to Arabia and I think the UK does too- now, that IS cruel.
That i do agree with, the practice of slaughter to produce Kosher and Halal meat is unacceptable."
Do you check how your meat has been slaughtered? I only ask because you’d be surprised how much meat sold is actually Halal despite it not being identified. Restaurants don’t usually mention if the meat they serve is Halal or not either |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's a bit disingenuous to suggest farmed animals stay in their fields out of a sense of wellbeing. They've been bred to be more docile and handled- we'd all be non-beef eaters if it'd had been Heck or nothing. The sheep are hefted to their field because they are taught by their mothers.
Having said that, a sick or stressed animal is worthless. I've seen dreadful cruelty on some farms and the best of care on others.
In New Zealand, I saw many sheep being slaughtered- we used to do them ourselves- and it's not pleasant. But we ate them. We export live sheep to Arabia and I think the UK does too- now, that IS cruel.
That i do agree with, the practice of slaughter to produce Kosher and Halal meat is unacceptable.
Do you check how your meat has been slaughtered? I only ask because you’d be surprised how much meat sold is actually Halal despite it not being identified. Restaurants don’t usually mention if the meat they serve is Halal or not either "
I check everything and i only buy from my local butcher who has an excellent reputation and whom i trust implicitly. If everyone did that there would be no need for threads such as this.
I have been through every stage of a farm animal's life. I have birthed them, cherished them, loved and admired them, taken the best possible care of them, made sure they want for nothing,taken them to slaughter and eaten the end result. I respect them and give thanks for their sacrifice. This completes the cycle and it's the way it should be. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Dear, oh dear. I sometimes have to roll my eyes at the strange notions some people get in their heads.
I eat meet, lots of it and i love it. I also consider myself an animal lover and someone who is ecologically aware. There is no hypocrisy here.
I have worked with dairy, beef, sheep and pigs and i have never witnessed anything that i would consider cruel.
Farm animals lend themselves to domestication because it is beneficial to them, if it wasn't they could never be tamed. They are protected from the elements, disease and predation. They never have to worry about finding food as it is freely provided for them. On the whole such animals live a happy and contented life even if it is cut a little short. In return for this they provide us with food, clothing and a plethora of other materials.
This is part of the natural order of things, consider it a service. Provided that the highest standards of animal husbandry are maitained and slaughter is performed in the most humane way possible how can this be considered cruel?
They are birthed, cared for and slaughtered, this completes the cycle. Respect animals but also understand the process, it is a mutually beneficial one.
So when you say you have never witnessed anything cruel , how do you explain the fear as the animals are being lined up for slaughter . The look in their eyes , the shaking , the cries ?
This is the reason for your lambasting of meat eaters? Have you ever visited a slaughterhouse? Whilst i admit that the end treatment may not be ideal this is a result of market forces. The answer is not to stop people from eating meat but to change the way they view it and pay more for it."
I’m not going to go into the way chickens are kept in barns , barely seeing daylight . Nor the massive amounts of growth hormone and antibiotics given to animals .
So yes , the lambasting is just because I don’t like to see the fear the animals go through , and the ultimate tortuous way they are slaughtered for our delectation .
And yes , I had an uncle who had a slaughterhouse down south as a lad . I was 13 when I first witnessed the cattle waiting to be slaughtered . Not a happy memory . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"As you'll know, only the front end of a halal ( not sure about Sechita) animal) is eaten and the rest goes for general consumption.
I fundementally disagree with Halal, yet because it's not labeled such, I eat it.
I believe there is a Jewish saying that he who wants to eat meat, should first kill an animal. That has a lot of sense to it. Respect."
What about kosher slaughter too? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I am slaughtering buttercups by the thousand for no other reason than they're growing in the wrong place, leaving them in a pile next to the bonfire to die a slow and lingering death. I'm so cruel, poor buttercups. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I eat meat but like other hate cruelty to animals.
I occasionally shoot for pest control, so I know I could put meat on the table if I had to...
The trouble is a lot but obviously not all vegetarians and vegans think they know best when it comes to animal welfare.
This video shows differently...
Don't watch if you are upset by animal suffering!!!
https://youtu.be/QKoXtFD9acE |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I eat meat but like other hate cruelty to animals.
I occasionally shoot for pest control, so I know I could put meat on the table if I had to...
The trouble is a lot but obviously not all vegetarians and vegans think they know best when it comes to animal welfare.
This video shows differently...
Don't watch if you are upset by animal suffering!!!
https://youtu.be/QKoXtFD9acE"
DEFRA figures show that there are currently 1.897 million dairy cows in Great Britain, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Add to that the number of pigs, sheep and poultry. Vegans want us to stop relying on animals for food, what they propose would make the Holocaust look like a temper tantrum. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I eat meat but like other hate cruelty to animals.
I occasionally shoot for pest control, so I know I could put meat on the table if I had to...
The trouble is a lot but obviously not all vegetarians and vegans think they know best when it comes to animal welfare.
This video shows differently...
Don't watch if you are upset by animal suffering!!!
https://youtu.be/QKoXtFD9acE
DEFRA figures show that there are currently 1.897 million dairy cows in Great Britain, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Add to that the number of pigs, sheep and poultry. Vegans want us to stop relying on animals for food, what they propose would make the Holocaust look like a temper tantrum. "
Furthermore the face of our countryside would be changed forever, there would be less land available for agriculture and mass destruction of natural habitat. I could write whole chapters on the subject but i'm at work and i don't have the time. I am sick and tired of so-called do-gooders spouting on subjects they are unable (unwilling?) to completely grasp and bashing our farmers in the process. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Keeping animals for the purpose of sport is one issue. With regards to eating meat, I take the view that human beings evolved as hunter gatherers who lived off the land. Although not top of the food chain with true carnivores, would have been fairly high up the food chain along with other omnivores. I’m not sure that it would have been possible for our hunter gatherer ancestors to survive purely as gatherers, as I’m not certain sufficient protein based vegitable products can be sourced by living off the land, or even with early farming techniques where people only ate what was in season. Also human beings have evolved with forward facing eyes typical of hunting predators, and in contrast to the side facing eyes of hunted prey. On the other it is true that human beings, as omnivores can survive without animal produce, as nowadays we have the luxury of sourcing high protein food products from further away. The flip side is that this results in a higher carbon footprint. So yes it’s probably unethical to use animals for unnecessary sport. But I think for those who are concerned about ethical eating, there should be a greater focus on eating locally sourced and sourced food products, and perhaps consuming less meat.
Mrs |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As you'll know, only the front end of a halal ( not sure about Sechita) animal) is eaten and the rest goes for general consumption.
I fundementally disagree with Halal, yet because it's not labeled such, I eat it.
I believe there is a Jewish saying that he who wants to eat meat, should first kill an animal. That has a lot of sense to it. Respect.
What about kosher slaughter too? "
That's Shechita. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Keeping animals for the purpose of sport is one issue. With regards to eating meat, I take the view that human beings evolved as hunter gatherers who lived off the land. Although not top of the food chain with true carnivores, would have been fairly high up the food chain along with other omnivores. I’m not sure that it would have been possible for our hunter gatherer ancestors to survive purely as gatherers, as I’m not certain sufficient protein based vegitable products can be sourced by living off the land, or even with early farming techniques where people only ate what was in season. Also human beings have evolved with forward facing eyes typical of hunting predators, and in contrast to the side facing eyes of hunted prey. On the other it is true that human beings, as omnivores can survive without animal produce, as nowadays we have the luxury of sourcing high protein food products from further away. The flip side is that this results in a higher carbon footprint. So yes it’s probably unethical to use animals for unnecessary sport. But I think for those who are concerned about ethical eating, there should be a greater focus on eating locally sourced and sourced food products, and perhaps consuming less meat.
Mrs"
Hear, hear. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Every vegan or vegetarian I know knows exactly where their food has come from an it is entirely possible to have a well balanced diet from local produce. All of them have adequate a choice, which they constantly have to defend from meat eaters and they feel as beleaguered as some meat eaters here do.
I'm glad DrProd is doing the work he is and that's optimal but without the monitoring that's in place now because of public outcry, we all recognise that not all producers would work that way.
Slaughter houses should be videod- I think they might be in Scotland. That promotes better practice. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Every vegan or vegetarian I know knows exactly where their food has come from an it is entirely possible to have a well balanced diet from local produce. All of them have adequate a choice, which they constantly have to defend from meat eaters and they feel as beleaguered as some meat eaters here do.
I'm glad DrProd is doing the work he is and that's optimal but without the monitoring that's in place now because of public outcry, we all recognise that not all producers would work that way.
Slaughter houses should be videod- I think they might be in Scotland. That promotes better practice. "
Yet it is clear that vegans are not aware of the consequences of doing away with our livestock.
The system as it stands is the best it can be under the parameters it has to deal with. Obviously massive improvements can be made to it but this can only come about with a change of mindset from consumers. Shelf prices are completely consumer driven, there is a demand for cheap produce and this has a direct effect on the way the meat is produced and therefore the amount of 'cruelty' our farm animals must endure.
The only solution is to step away from this and pay a fair price and be more aware of it's provenance. This way we will see a return to local independent abbatoirs meaning that animals are slaughtered in fewer numbers at once and have to travel much shorter distances reducing waiting time and therefore stress.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Vegans, especially, (obes ive met, anyway, are aware exactly of the consequences. Let's be realistic here- there's not going to be an overwhelming conversion to veganism, resulting in wholesale culling.
I'd play Devil's advocate, too and say that the countryside we see exists because of farming and that very farming has radically changed what the countryside initially looked like.
Realistically, I think climate change will be the death of farming, rather than veganism. In some parts of the UK already, cattle farming is barely possible. In the near future we will need to view meat as a luxury, rather than a necessity. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Vegans, especially, (obes ive met, anyway, are aware exactly of the consequences. Let's be realistic here- there's not going to be an overwhelming conversion to veganism, resulting in wholesale culling.
I'd play Devil's advocate, too and say that the countryside we see exists because of farming and that very farming has radically changed what the countryside initially looked like.
Realistically, I think climate change will be the death of farming, rather than veganism. In some parts of the UK already, cattle farming is barely possible. In the near future we will need to view meat as a luxury, rather than a necessity."
Referring to paragraphs one through to three; no, of course and no. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Im vegan but i understand we are omnivores and therefore meat is survival. Being vegan isnt easy or cheap and isnt an option for everyone.
But we do try and be humane in farming. Meat is food for many animals and its just part of mother nature.
Racing is not. Using animals for sport is just pleasure and no animal should suffer or die for something that is not something we need for survival!!
It is illegal to harm or kill an animal for tv or film so whats the difference?
If we need to use animals, as many do around the world for farming etc.. then its about treating them with the respect they deserve as does all life on earth deserve |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Vegans, especially, (obes ive met, anyway, are aware exactly of the consequences. Let's be realistic here- there's not going to be an overwhelming conversion to veganism, resulting in wholesale culling.
I'd play Devil's advocate, too and say that the countryside we see exists because of farming and that very farming has radically changed what the countryside initially looked like.
Realistically, I think climate change will be the death of farming, rather than veganism. In some parts of the UK already, cattle farming is barely possible. In the near future we will need to view meat as a luxury, rather than a necessity."
Could you explain further where in the uk cattle farming is barely possible due to climate change that’s not a claim I have heard before? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I have relatives in Scotland who have found the last two years unbearable. They and all their neighbours went from dairy to beef- there are very few dairy left now- and with the appalling summers couldn't cut ANY silage at all, and now the worst winter for many, many years and continuing cold wet spring and forecast summer, cannot pay £60 for a large bale of fodder and cannot put their cattle out onto fields where the grass isn't going to grow for at least another month and is waterlogged anyway- for them it's either putting everything away or suicide......
Selling up is not an option- no-one is buying- and they are all 100% mortgaged and have absolutely nowhere to turn. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I have relatives in Scotland who have found the last two years unbearable. They and all their neighbours went from dairy to beef- there are very few dairy left now- and with the appalling summers couldn't cut ANY silage at all, and now the worst winter for many, many years and continuing cold wet spring and forecast summer, cannot pay £60 for a large bale of fodder and cannot put their cattle out onto fields where the grass isn't going to grow for at least another month and is waterlogged anyway- for them it's either putting everything away or suicide......
Selling up is not an option- no-one is buying- and they are all 100% mortgaged and have absolutely nowhere to turn."
It was a very wet summer last year but do find it difficult to see how they couldn’t make ANY silage. In those circumstances we find we make plenty of silage just not the quality that we’d like. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Large parts of Ayrshire cut no silage at all last year.
A contractor's combine became mired in the mud in a field, two tractors also became stuck and the upshot was, then combine had to stay where it was until last week.....from last autumn. that means £250,000 piece of kit sunk in a muddy field, not working, others not getting anything cut- trust me, it is really, really dire.
I'm glad you haven't had to experience that, but it's common all over Scotland. As for winter barley- forget it. The spring barley is rotting in the fields in places, too from last year- or was simply just ploughed back in. Many farms are simply not able to afford to plant it this year. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Large parts of Ayrshire cut no silage at all last year.
A contractor's combine became mired in the mud in a field, two tractors also became stuck and the upshot was, then combine had to stay where it was until last week.....from last autumn. that means £250,000 piece of kit sunk in a muddy field, not working, others not getting anything cut- trust me, it is really, really dire.
I'm glad you haven't had to experience that, but it's common all over Scotland. As for winter barley- forget it. The spring barley is rotting in the fields in places, too from last year- or was simply just ploughed back in. Many farms are simply not able to afford to plant it this year."
Certainly does sound very bad up there |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ky19Man
over a year ago
Plymouth |
I think the way animals are slaughtered is sick, but I don't believe eating meat is wrong in itself, just the way it gets there.
I try to have alternatives when reasonably possible, just so a little less money goes to them. Treason May and the government really need to do something about this, and they will if our voices are loud enough that they can't ignore.
Trouble is, despite what she/they tell us, they're all about making big business richer and as it stands, profits would be affected if they didn't cut off chicken's beaks while they're conscious etc. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Large parts of Ayrshire cut no silage at all last year.
A contractor's combine became mired in the mud in a field, two tractors also became stuck and the upshot was, then combine had to stay where it was until last week.....from last autumn. that means £250,000 piece of kit sunk in a muddy field, not working, others not getting anything cut- trust me, it is really, really dire.
I'm glad you haven't had to experience that, but it's common all over Scotland. As for winter barley- forget it. The spring barley is rotting in the fields in places, too from last year- or was simply just ploughed back in. Many farms are simply not able to afford to plant it this year."
I honestly hadn't realised how bad it was up there and i apologise for my ignorance. Whether or not this could be put down to global warming though is debatable and it could just simply be an unusually wet year.
I know farmers down this way are about a month behind at the moment due to it being too wet and have had to postpone their operations and delay turning out livestock increasing costs. The beast from the east saw the death of a lot of our lambs and some of our ewes too.
Bad years such as this have happened before and they're not as uncommon as some people think. Things have a way of righting themselves and farmers, by their very nature, are incredibly adaptable. The biggest problem nowadays though is that decreasing margins have left many unable to ride out disappointing years such as this. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Well, I've heard people saying meat-eaters smell differently than vegetarians so anybody agree? Can see they might taste differently....."
Yet another criteria to fall foul of. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Well, I've heard people saying meat-eaters smell differently than vegetarians so anybody agree? Can see they might taste differently....."
When the veggies have been on the sprouts,yes they smell different. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
The UK has some of the highest standarfs of animal husbandry in the world. The strict regulations brought in practice due to concerns of the British people.
These high standards bring additional costs.
So what happens?
British supermarkets import large quantities of meat from countries with low standards and low costs...
The British consumer obviously doesn't want British animals to suffer but is ok with foreign animals suffering...  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The UK has some of the highest standarfs of animal husbandry in the world. The strict regulations brought in practice due to concerns of the British people.
These high standards bring additional costs.
So what happens?
British supermarkets import large quantities of meat from countries with low standards and low costs...
The British consumer obviously doesn't want British animals to suffer but is ok with foreign animals suffering... "
Blimey you're up early.
You have hit the nail firmly on the head. I reiterate; we need to change the way we veiw meat, understand the process behind it's production, it's provenance and ultimately be prepared to pay more for it and make sure this is passed on to the farmer's pockets. We need to stop believing we have a god given right to cheap produce. If that means we must eat less meat them so be it. The farmers' and their charges' and the environment's wellbeing is paramount. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The UK has some of the highest standarfs of animal husbandry in the world. The strict regulations brought in practice due to concerns of the British people.
These high standards bring additional costs.
So what happens?
British supermarkets import large quantities of meat from countries with low standards and low costs...
The British consumer obviously doesn't want British animals to suffer but is ok with foreign animals suffering...
Blimey you're up early.
You have hit the nail firmly on the head. I reiterate; we need to change the way we veiw meat, understand the process behind it's production, it's provenance and ultimately be prepared to pay more for it and make sure this is passed on to the farmer's pockets. We need to stop believing we have a god given right to cheap produce. If that means we must eat less meat them so be it. The farmers' and their charges' and the environment's wellbeing is paramount."
I think so. Admittedly I’m not good at this myself, but I think our diet and food should be more than in line with our hunter gatherer ancestors and early farmers. Ie we should try harder to eat locally sourced natural food which would predominantly be vegitarian, then from from time to to time boost protein intake with locally sourced meat. This would reduce the carbon footprint and other envonmental issues that we are all guilty of. A friend of my husband regular posts photos of her vegan meals on Facebook. We were quite shocked that so much of what she eats is not possible to grow in the UK probably resulting in a substantial carbon footprint. And it made wonder if it’s possible to have a vegan diet from only local natural produce? I’m not sure. I think it’s much easier to have a balanced diet with some meat from locally sourced food. We probably would need to cut down on meat though.
Mrs
Mrs |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Should Fab include a new category of "Will/Won't Meet Meat-Eaters"?
Are you :-
Vegan
Vegetarian
Hypocrite
Cruel
For vegan insert clueless. "
You yourself pleaded ignorance to things happening that you were oblivious to. I think to a certain extent we’re all clueless. No group is perfect and I’m surprised the use of toiletries hasn’t been mentioned. Then there’s clothing and footwear, the list goes on. I think we have a lot to learn |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
As most of you know I'm a Butcher. And I'm also an animal lover . Sounds hypocritical I know. I only source local produce ( non halal). Us Humans have always eaten meat and always will . Cattle are reared to be eaten and thus will never be endangered . What fucks me off is needless animal cruelty and the killing of Rhinos and Elephants and other endangered creatures purely for gullible Asain markets who think ivory and Rhino horn have magical healing powers . They need to be taught that there is no medicinal value in this . I have no issues at all with veggies although a few mindless vegans do go over the top occasionly ..So there is my opinion for what it's worth . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Should Fab include a new category of "Will/Won't Meet Meat-Eaters"?
Are you :-
Vegan
Vegetarian
Hypocrite
Cruel
For vegan insert clueless.
You yourself pleaded ignorance to things happening that you were oblivious to. I think to a certain extent we’re all clueless. No group is perfect and I’m surprised the use of toiletries hasn’t been mentioned. Then there’s clothing and footwear, the list goes on. I think we have a lot to learn "
Quite so. We all have a duty to be as informed as possible. In this information age there is no excuse for ignorance yet becoming aware of the problems in Scotland has not altered my opinion, much as i feel for them.
Furthermore, i do believe that vegans live in some kind of alternate fantasy realm where they exist completely blind of the facts. If this information is so freely available then i can only assume that their ignorance is deliberate |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Should Fab include a new category of "Will/Won't Meet Meat-Eaters"?
Are you :-
Vegan
Vegetarian
Hypocrite
Cruel
For vegan insert physical weak . "
FIFY
It’s a joke. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
This question doesn't make sense, just because I eat meat obviously that doesn't mean that I'm promoting animal cruelty or anything like that, I don't exactly go around beating up kittens or anything. The animals we breed in this country to eat are taken care of and live a happy life and slaughtered in the most decent way possible. The way I see it the more people who choose to become vegetarian because they think its cruel the worse it is, every day thousands of shops and supermarkets throw away a ridiculous amount of meat products, that's hundreds of animals that have been slaughtered for no reason and just end up in the skip, so we might as well eat them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This question doesn't make sense, just because I eat meat obviously that doesn't mean that I'm promoting animal cruelty or anything like that, I don't exactly go around beating up kittens or anything. The animals we breed in this country to eat are taken care of and live a happy life and slaughtered in the most decent way possible. The way I see it the more people who choose to become vegetarian because they think its cruel the worse it is, every day thousands of shops and supermarkets throw away a ridiculous amount of meat products, that's hundreds of animals that have been slaughtered for no reason and just end up in the skip, so we might as well eat them."
This also. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"This question doesn't make sense, just because I eat meat obviously that doesn't mean that I'm promoting animal cruelty or anything like that, I don't exactly go around beating up kittens or anything. The animals we breed in this country to eat are taken care of and live a happy life and slaughtered in the most decent way possible. The way I see it the more people who choose to become vegetarian because they think its cruel the worse it is, every day thousands of shops and supermarkets throw away a ridiculous amount of meat products, that's hundreds of animals that have been slaughtered for no reason and just end up in the skip, so we might as well eat them.
This also. "
Even more reason to look at what’s happening to the animals welfare . I mean it’s bad enough they get slaughtered for us to eat them , it’s even worse that they get slaughtered to get put in a skip .
As an aside , did you know that a pig is more intelligent than any domestic animal , and outperforms a 3 year old child in cognitive tests ?
If people realise this would they still eagerly tuck into their sausages and bacon ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This question doesn't make sense, just because I eat meat obviously that doesn't mean that I'm promoting animal cruelty or anything like that, I don't exactly go around beating up kittens or anything. The animals we breed in this country to eat are taken care of and live a happy life and slaughtered in the most decent way possible. The way I see it the more people who choose to become vegetarian because they think its cruel the worse it is, every day thousands of shops and supermarkets throw away a ridiculous amount of meat products, that's hundreds of animals that have been slaughtered for no reason and just end up in the skip, so we might as well eat them.
This also.
Even more reason to look at what’s happening to the animals welfare . I mean it’s bad enough they get slaughtered for us to eat them , it’s even worse that they get slaughtered to get put in a skip .
As an aside , did you know that a pig is more intelligent than any domestic animal , and outperforms a 3 year old child in cognitive tests ?
If people realise this would they still eagerly tuck into their sausages and bacon ? "
Yes. And I’m not saying that to wind you up, honestly. I know pigs are inteligent, but I also know they’re a good food source. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This question doesn't make sense, just because I eat meat obviously that doesn't mean that I'm promoting animal cruelty or anything like that, I don't exactly go around beating up kittens or anything. The animals we breed in this country to eat are taken care of and live a happy life and slaughtered in the most decent way possible. The way I see it the more people who choose to become vegetarian because they think its cruel the worse it is, every day thousands of shops and supermarkets throw away a ridiculous amount of meat products, that's hundreds of animals that have been slaughtered for no reason and just end up in the skip, so we might as well eat them.
This also.
Even more reason to look at what’s happening to the animals welfare . I mean it’s bad enough they get slaughtered for us to eat them , it’s even worse that they get slaughtered to get put in a skip .
As an aside , did you know that a pig is more intelligent than any domestic animal , and outperforms a 3 year old child in cognitive tests ?
If people realise this would they still eagerly tuck into their sausages and bacon ?
Yes. And I’m not saying that to wind you up, honestly. I know pigs are inteligent, but I also know they’re a good food source. "
But I wouldn’t eat a 3yr old human. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"This question doesn't make sense, just because I eat meat obviously that doesn't mean that I'm promoting animal cruelty or anything like that, I don't exactly go around beating up kittens or anything. The animals we breed in this country to eat are taken care of and live a happy life and slaughtered in the most decent way possible. The way I see it the more people who choose to become vegetarian because they think its cruel the worse it is, every day thousands of shops and supermarkets throw away a ridiculous amount of meat products, that's hundreds of animals that have been slaughtered for no reason and just end up in the skip, so we might as well eat them.
This also.
Even more reason to look at what’s happening to the animals welfare . I mean it’s bad enough they get slaughtered for us to eat them , it’s even worse that they get slaughtered to get put in a skip .
As an aside , did you know that a pig is more intelligent than any domestic animal , and outperforms a 3 year old child in cognitive tests ?
If people realise this would they still eagerly tuck into their sausages and bacon ?
Yes. And I’m not saying that to wind you up, honestly. I know pigs are inteligent, but I also know they’re a good food source.
But I wouldn’t eat a 3yr old human. "
I would hazard a guess that if it was shown all over the media just how intelligent / capable / empathetic a pig is , a fair few people would think twice .
And of course you wouldn’t eat a 3 year old human ! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This question doesn't make sense, just because I eat meat obviously that doesn't mean that I'm promoting animal cruelty or anything like that, I don't exactly go around beating up kittens or anything. The animals we breed in this country to eat are taken care of and live a happy life and slaughtered in the most decent way possible. The way I see it the more people who choose to become vegetarian because they think its cruel the worse it is, every day thousands of shops and supermarkets throw away a ridiculous amount of meat products, that's hundreds of animals that have been slaughtered for no reason and just end up in the skip, so we might as well eat them.
This also.
Even more reason to look at what’s happening to the animals welfare . I mean it’s bad enough they get slaughtered for us to eat them , it’s even worse that they get slaughtered to get put in a skip .
As an aside , did you know that a pig is more intelligent than any domestic animal , and outperforms a 3 year old child in cognitive tests ?
If people realise this would they still eagerly tuck into their sausages and bacon ?
Yes. And I’m not saying that to wind you up, honestly. I know pigs are inteligent, but I also know they’re a good food source.
But I wouldn’t eat a 3yr old human.
I would hazard a guess that if it was shown all over the media just how intelligent / capable / empathetic a pig is , a fair few people would think twice .
And of course you wouldn’t eat a 3 year old human ! "
They probably would, and if they shown the horrific conditions some animals are reared to reach the demand for meat by the stores/customers people would probably think twice where they purchase their food from.
Educación would provide the public with what they need to make an informed choice, however, lots of how farming is done is hidden so we don’t. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This question doesn't make sense, just because I eat meat obviously that doesn't mean that I'm promoting animal cruelty or anything like that, I don't exactly go around beating up kittens or anything. The animals we breed in this country to eat are taken care of and live a happy life and slaughtered in the most decent way possible. The way I see it the more people who choose to become vegetarian because they think its cruel the worse it is, every day thousands of shops and supermarkets throw away a ridiculous amount of meat products, that's hundreds of animals that have been slaughtered for no reason and just end up in the skip, so we might as well eat them.
This also.
Even more reason to look at what’s happening to the animals welfare . I mean it’s bad enough they get slaughtered for us to eat them , it’s even worse that they get slaughtered to get put in a skip .
As an aside , did you know that a pig is more intelligent than any domestic animal , and outperforms a 3 year old child in cognitive tests ?
If people realise this would they still eagerly tuck into their sausages and bacon ?
Yes. And I’m not saying that to wind you up, honestly. I know pigs are inteligent, but I also know they’re a good food source.
But I wouldn’t eat a 3yr old human.
I would hazard a guess that if it was shown all over the media just how intelligent / capable / empathetic a pig is , a fair few people would think twice .
And of course you wouldn’t eat a 3 year old human ! "
I think for me personally intelligence is not a deciding factor on whether an animal is suitable for meat. Others may be swayed, who knows.
Mrs |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"This question doesn't make sense, just because I eat meat obviously that doesn't mean that I'm promoting animal cruelty or anything like that, I don't exactly go around beating up kittens or anything. The animals we breed in this country to eat are taken care of and live a happy life and slaughtered in the most decent way possible. The way I see it the more people who choose to become vegetarian because they think its cruel the worse it is, every day thousands of shops and supermarkets throw away a ridiculous amount of meat products, that's hundreds of animals that have been slaughtered for no reason and just end up in the skip, so we might as well eat them.
This also.
Even more reason to look at what’s happening to the animals welfare . I mean it’s bad enough they get slaughtered for us to eat them , it’s even worse that they get slaughtered to get put in a skip .
As an aside , did you know that a pig is more intelligent than any domestic animal , and outperforms a 3 year old child in cognitive tests ?
If people realise this would they still eagerly tuck into their sausages and bacon ?
Yes. And I’m not saying that to wind you up, honestly. I know pigs are inteligent, but I also know they’re a good food source.
But I wouldn’t eat a 3yr old human.
I would hazard a guess that if it was shown all over the media just how intelligent / capable / empathetic a pig is , a fair few people would think twice .
And of course you wouldn’t eat a 3 year old human !
I think for me personally intelligence is not a deciding factor on whether an animal is suitable for meat. Others may be swayed, who knows.
Mrs"
This was my point , each animal no matter what it is deserves the right to live in my opinion .
But we don’t eat dogs or cats here , because they are domesticated and respond to us .
Would you eat dog or cat if it tasted like pig ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This question doesn't make sense, just because I eat meat obviously that doesn't mean that I'm promoting animal cruelty or anything like that, I don't exactly go around beating up kittens or anything. The animals we breed in this country to eat are taken care of and live a happy life and slaughtered in the most decent way possible. The way I see it the more people who choose to become vegetarian because they think its cruel the worse it is, every day thousands of shops and supermarkets throw away a ridiculous amount of meat products, that's hundreds of animals that have been slaughtered for no reason and just end up in the skip, so we might as well eat them.
This also.
Even more reason to look at what’s happening to the animals welfare . I mean it’s bad enough they get slaughtered for us to eat them , it’s even worse that they get slaughtered to get put in a skip .
As an aside , did you know that a pig is more intelligent than any domestic animal , and outperforms a 3 year old child in cognitive tests ?
If people realise this would they still eagerly tuck into their sausages and bacon ?
Yes. And I’m not saying that to wind you up, honestly. I know pigs are inteligent, but I also know they’re a good food source.
But I wouldn’t eat a 3yr old human.
I would hazard a guess that if it was shown all over the media just how intelligent / capable / empathetic a pig is , a fair few people would think twice .
And of course you wouldn’t eat a 3 year old human !
I think for me personally intelligence is not a deciding factor on whether an animal is suitable for meat. Others may be swayed, who knows.
Mrs
This was my point , each animal no matter what it is deserves the right to live in my opinion .
But we don’t eat dogs or cats here , because they are domesticated and respond to us .
Would you eat dog or cat if it tasted like pig ?"
I wouldn’t eat a carnivore. I would eat a rabbit, even though I used keep rabbits as pets in my flat and they would respond to be in the same friendly way that a cat would. I wouldn’t eat my own pet rabbit though. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I eat loads of meat.
I enjoy the grand national, its a british tradition going for almost 200 years, i visit horse racing regularly, im a keen shooter as long as its 'fair game'
Zoo's in this country have done wonders for animal welfare, many would be long extinct if it wasnt for work of zoologists.
I think the world has become to soft in the past 20 years, everyone seems to just want everything and everyone wrapped in cotton wool. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This question doesn't make sense, just because I eat meat obviously that doesn't mean that I'm promoting animal cruelty or anything like that, I don't exactly go around beating up kittens or anything. The animals we breed in this country to eat are taken care of and live a happy life and slaughtered in the most decent way possible. The way I see it the more people who choose to become vegetarian because they think its cruel the worse it is, every day thousands of shops and supermarkets throw away a ridiculous amount of meat products, that's hundreds of animals that have been slaughtered for no reason and just end up in the skip, so we might as well eat them.
This also.
Even more reason to look at what’s happening to the animals welfare . I mean it’s bad enough they get slaughtered for us to eat them , it’s even worse that they get slaughtered to get put in a skip .
As an aside , did you know that a pig is more intelligent than any domestic animal , and outperforms a 3 year old child in cognitive tests ?
If people realise this would they still eagerly tuck into their sausages and bacon ?
Yes. And I’m not saying that to wind you up, honestly. I know pigs are inteligent, but I also know they’re a good food source.
But I wouldn’t eat a 3yr old human.
I would hazard a guess that if it was shown all over the media just how intelligent / capable / empathetic a pig is , a fair few people would think twice .
And of course you wouldn’t eat a 3 year old human !
I think for me personally intelligence is not a deciding factor on whether an animal is suitable for meat. Others may be swayed, who knows.
Mrs
This was my point , each animal no matter what it is deserves the right to live in my opinion .
But we don’t eat dogs or cats here , because they are domesticated and respond to us .
Would you eat dog or cat if it tasted like pig ?"
Is it ok to farm animals to make dog or cat food? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"This question doesn't make sense, just because I eat meat obviously that doesn't mean that I'm promoting animal cruelty or anything like that, I don't exactly go around beating up kittens or anything. The animals we breed in this country to eat are taken care of and live a happy life and slaughtered in the most decent way possible. The way I see it the more people who choose to become vegetarian because they think its cruel the worse it is, every day thousands of shops and supermarkets throw away a ridiculous amount of meat products, that's hundreds of animals that have been slaughtered for no reason and just end up in the skip, so we might as well eat them.
This also.
Even more reason to look at what’s happening to the animals welfare . I mean it’s bad enough they get slaughtered for us to eat them , it’s even worse that they get slaughtered to get put in a skip .
As an aside , did you know that a pig is more intelligent than any domestic animal , and outperforms a 3 year old child in cognitive tests ?
If people realise this would they still eagerly tuck into their sausages and bacon ?
Yes. And I’m not saying that to wind you up, honestly. I know pigs are inteligent, but I also know they’re a good food source.
But I wouldn’t eat a 3yr old human.
I would hazard a guess that if it was shown all over the media just how intelligent / capable / empathetic a pig is , a fair few people would think twice .
And of course you wouldn’t eat a 3 year old human !
I think for me personally intelligence is not a deciding factor on whether an animal is suitable for meat. Others may be swayed, who knows.
Mrs
This was my point , each animal no matter what it is deserves the right to live in my opinion .
But we don’t eat dogs or cats here , because they are domesticated and respond to us .
Would you eat dog or cat if it tasted like pig ?
Is it ok to farm animals to make dog or cat food?"
Good question !
I recall as a kid feeding the family dogs and cat with this stuff that was dried and you added water . It was vegetarian , and the dogs and cats seemed fine on it . So I guess I would , even though they are naturally canivores . I wouldn’t bat an eyelid at them catching their own food though . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I eat loads of meat.
I enjoy the grand national, its a british tradition going for almost 200 years, i visit horse racing regularly, im a keen shooter as long as its 'fair game'
Zoo's in this country have done wonders for animal welfare, many would be long extinct if it wasnt for work of zoologists.
I think the world has become to soft in the past 20 years, everyone seems to just want everything and everyone wrapped in cotton wool. "
Only the last 20 years ?
Some might say since the sixties when flower power and the hippies and tree hugging vegetarians came to be more popular |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I eat loads of meat.
I enjoy the grand national, its a british tradition going for almost 200 years, i visit horse racing regularly, im a keen shooter as long as its 'fair game'
Zoo's in this country have done wonders for animal welfare, many would be long extinct if it wasnt for work of zoologists.
I think the world has become to soft in the past 20 years, everyone seems to just want everything and everyone wrapped in cotton wool. "
So you support suffering just to be alive? Referring to zoos |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I see it that the food chain is part of a natural order of life, and human beings have their place in that food chain. Human beings have hunted for meat for 10s of thousands of years. Until recently human beings failed to live as vegetarians, putting enormous importance on the success of a hunt. A successful hunt often signified the survival of a tribe, when meat was often scarce. Nowadays high protein food products are shipped in from far away, not to mention highly processed, and can be used as meat replacements. However I feel very uncomfortable changing the position that human beings have had in the food chain for millennia.
Mrs |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I'm probably a hypocrite as I am a vegetarian but also ride horses and very occasionally go to local point to point meetings. I also have a couple of ex race horses who live a happy life in a field and never get ridden.
I decided years ago to not eat any animal that I wouldn't kill myself if it was in front of me. If there was no choice and I was starving to death then I would but the range of food available in our shops means that this will hopefully never happen.
If someone ate a steak in front of me it wouldn't bother me , personal choices are our right. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This question doesn't make sense, just because I eat meat obviously that doesn't mean that I'm promoting animal cruelty or anything like that, I don't exactly go around beating up kittens or anything. The animals we breed in this country to eat are taken care of and live a happy life and slaughtered in the most decent way possible. The way I see it the more people who choose to become vegetarian because they think its cruel the worse it is, every day thousands of shops and supermarkets throw away a ridiculous amount of meat products, that's hundreds of animals that have been slaughtered for no reason and just end up in the skip, so we might as well eat them.
This also.
Even more reason to look at what’s happening to the animals welfare . I mean it’s bad enough they get slaughtered for us to eat them , it’s even worse that they get slaughtered to get put in a skip .
As an aside , did you know that a pig is more intelligent than any domestic animal , and outperforms a 3 year old child in cognitive tests ?
If people realise this would they still eagerly tuck into their sausages and bacon ?
Yes. And I’m not saying that to wind you up, honestly. I know pigs are inteligent, but I also know they’re a good food source.
But I wouldn’t eat a 3yr old human.
I would hazard a guess that if it was shown all over the media just how intelligent / capable / empathetic a pig is , a fair few people would think twice .
And of course you wouldn’t eat a 3 year old human !
I think for me personally intelligence is not a deciding factor on whether an animal is suitable for meat. Others may be swayed, who knows.
Mrs"
If we were only able to eat stupid animals then watching Jeremy Kyle would be like a trip to the local deli. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I eat loads of meat.
I enjoy the grand national, its a british tradition going for almost 200 years, i visit horse racing regularly, im a keen shooter as long as its 'fair game'
Zoo's in this country have done wonders for animal welfare, many would be long extinct if it wasnt for work of zoologists.
I think the world has become to soft in the past 20 years, everyone seems to just want everything and everyone wrapped in cotton wool. "
Nevertheless we still have a duty of care and respect to our charges. They should be reared and slaughtered as as humanely as possible. I believe we are already doing so given the current tight margins in farming. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
