FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Stop and Search to Recommence
Stop and Search to Recommence
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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It's had its critics in the past but do you think it is needed again?
http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/iain-dale/met-police-chief-announces-more-stop-and-search/
Your thoughts.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Its all good and well saying stop amd search will increase, but there are 2 major issues there.
1. The search has to be lawful. You need grounds to do the search.
2. Who is going to do the search? Cop numbers are dropping like a FAB favourites knickers! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Its all good and well saying stop amd search will increase, but there are 2 major issues there.
1. The search has to be lawful. You need grounds to do the search.
2. Who is going to do the search? Cop numbers are dropping like a FAB favourites knickers! "
Well they have announced there will be 300 new police officers on the streetshows of London.
Do you think it's enough? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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300 if you work it out across all the parts of London over all the different shifts will probably be 1 extra cop per team.
Not to mention all those going from uniform to other departments.
To make a difference it needs to be 1000's across the country. It should be 300 more firearms cops plus more uniform. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I don't know why they announced it. They should have just done it"
I think in the recent rise in murders in the capital they have to do something and be seen to do something... |
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"300 if you work it out across all the parts of London over all the different shifts will probably be 1 extra cop per team.
Not to mention all those going from uniform to other departments.
To make a difference it needs to be 1000's across the country. It should be 300 more firearms cops plus more uniform."
Agree  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Police need sensitivity training with regards to carrying out the searches. Also people need to not have such a big chip on their shoulder when asked, you should only have a problem with it if you regularly carry around weapons or contraband. I've been stopped and searched in the past. I didn't get arsey with the officer involved. The way I see it is if it finds weapons before they're used it can't be a bad thing. Sorry for the long post. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Police need sensitivity training with regards to carrying out the searches. Also people need to not have such a big chip on their shoulder when asked, you should only have a problem with it if you regularly carry around weapons or contraband. I've been stopped and searched in the past. I didn't get arsey with the officer involved. The way I see it is if it finds weapons before they're used it can't be a bad thing. Sorry for the long post."
But a good post imo |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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How long before the civil rights bunch jump on the bandwagon? Like its been said. If you are doing nothing wrong what do you have to worry/complain about. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How long before the civil rights bunch jump on the bandwagon? Like its been said. If you are doing nothing wrong what do you have to worry/complain about."
Well it is 2018. The 20-10s the decade everyone got offended. |
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Of course it is.
Fed up of the PC brigade all they do is make things worse and stop the police from policing.
It’s because it doesn’t affect them in their ivory towers so they make decisions to please rather than to have an effect. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its all good and well saying stop amd search will increase, but there are 2 major issues there.
1. The search has to be lawful. You need grounds to do the search.
2. Who is going to do the search? Cop numbers are dropping like a FAB favourites knickers!
Well they have announced there will be 300 new police officers on the streetshows of London.
Do you think it's enough?"
I hate to be picky but the announcement was 'extra' not new......these 300 Officers being taken away from other tasks, working overtime and having rest days cancelled.....the overall number of police officers in the UK continues to fall ! |
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Need to target the stop and search on the type of people statistically most likely to be involved in violence.
There will be people that say that this includes a race/age/sex bias, and they are right. But these are the people that are also statistically most likely to benefit (not get stabbed).
In a time where public resources are most stretched and the rate of violence seems close to be out of control, concerns about absolute political correctness needs to stop.
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"Its all good and well saying stop amd search will increase, but there are 2 major issues there.
1. The search has to be lawful. You need grounds to do the search.
2. Who is going to do the search? Cop numbers are dropping like a FAB favourites knickers!
Well they have announced there will be 300 new police officers on the streetshows of London.
Do you think it's enough?"
I've seen dozens of policemen outside one schools in Peckham come home time, and there's at least half a dozen patrol cars and a couple of vans outside King's College Hospital every day: that's just two examples in one borough: Southwark!
The last time I saw a police officer walking the beat was September last year, when they turned up for our annual street party.  We have had a series of break ins, cars stolen, women attacked in the alley at the top of the road.
We received an email and a pamphlet advising us to be careful (no shit) but no active police presence at all.
So do I think 300 enough: no! I think they should employ 300 more experienced admin staff and release the police we have from paperwork and put them back on the streets...and yeah...Anyone they think looks dodgy, search them!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its all good and well saying stop amd search will increase, but there are 2 major issues there.
1. The search has to be lawful. You need grounds to do the search.
2. Who is going to do the search? Cop numbers are dropping like a FAB favourites knickers!
Well they have announced there will be 300 new police officers on the streetshows of London.
Do you think it's enough?"
There aren't 300 new officers. They've been relocated and made to work extra hours and longer hours.
Stop search will go part of the way, but the fundamental problem is social. Cut backs and lack of support, non existent social care AND youth development AND terrible attitudes are to blame.
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"Its all good and well saying stop amd search will increase, but there are 2 major issues there.
1. The search has to be lawful. You need grounds to do the search.
2. Who is going to do the search? Cop numbers are dropping like a FAB favourites knickers!
Well they have announced there will be 300 new police officers on the streetshows of London.
Do you think it's enough?
There aren't 300 new officers. They've been relocated and made to work extra hours and longer hours.
Stop search will go part of the way, but the fundamental problem is social. Cut backs and lack of support, non existent social care AND youth development AND terrible attitudes are to blame.
"
No mention of parental responsibility to raise their children with a sense of right and wrong/provide loving environment and promote self worth without the need to play the bad man to impress equally "lost" souls?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its all good and well saying stop amd search will increase, but there are 2 major issues there.
1. The search has to be lawful. You need grounds to do the search.
2. Who is going to do the search? Cop numbers are dropping like a FAB favourites knickers!
Well they have announced there will be 300 new police officers on the streetshows of London.
Do you think it's enough?
There aren't 300 new officers. They've been relocated and made to work extra hours and longer hours.
Stop search will go part of the way, but the fundamental problem is social. Cut backs and lack of support, non existent social care AND youth development AND terrible attitudes are to blame.
No mention of parental responsibility to raise their children with a sense of right and wrong/provide loving environment and promote self worth without the need to play the bad man to impress equally "lost" souls?
"
Of course.
But the good old media daren't suggest it's their fault due to the backlash.
Somehow it's all public bodies faults that because child A was bored, they decided to stab someone instead of going fishing,riding their bike,playing sport etc etc |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think we need to overhaul and completely change the way we look at education.
There is no reason why a young man or woman shouldn't be leaving school with a vocational qualification. It would give them the opportunity to find work easier or to start their own business. If they had a better chance of employment when they left school they may find it easier to follow a different path in life.
Not everyone is accademicaly bright. So many of the young adults that get involved in dr*GS and crime have left school with no hope.
300 extra/new police is an insulting token diversionary gesture. It will take a lot more than that.
Stop and search may take knives and dr*gs off the streets and help to lower the numbers of crimes committed but, it doesn't address the reasons these people took that path in the first place.
At the moment, society is letting young people down...big time! 99.9% of people aren't born bad! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
But the good old media daren't suggest it's their fault due to the backlash.
Somehow it's all public bodies faults that because child A was bored, they decided to stab someone instead of going fishing,riding their bike,playing sport etc etc"
That said do you think it's a good idea or should it ever of been stopped in the first place?
I maybe a little older then you and as a kid there was always other little that's about who parents didn't give a fuck about and there always will be...
So that was not the question with the greatest of respect... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Cant go riding a bike because of cars on the road. Fishing all rivers etc polluted
Stop n Search is ok but it will end up tageting a particular section of the comunity then the police get accused of being racist.
Do nothing they are accused of being scared.
They are wrong when right and right when wrong. |
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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago
Paisley |
"How long before the civil rights bunch jump on the bandwagon? Like its been said. If you are doing nothing wrong what do you have to worry/complain about."
The Civil Rights of those being attacked are being taken away. They deserve the right to feel safe walking in their own towns and cities. Glasgow is no better. It’s the ages of those doing the atracking that appals me. It’s getting younger all the time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
But the good old media daren't suggest it's their fault due to the backlash.
Somehow it's all public bodies faults that because child A was bored, they decided to stab someone instead of going fishing,riding their bike,playing sport etc etc
That said do you think it's a good idea or should it ever of been stopped in the first place?
I maybe a little older then you and as a kid there was always other little that's about who parents didn't give a fuck about and there always will be...
So that was not the question with the greatest of respect..."
It is a good idea if the public will support it.
If the public won't support and provide information to the police on a large scale, then they're simply playing catch up.
Stop and search will deter and catch a small percentage.
As usual the back last will be claims of police state etc.
I refer you to my previous comments....it's holistic. One act won't solve it all. |
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Legally nothing has changed. The police have always had power to stop and search where they have had reasonable grounds for suspecting someone was in possession of something illegal. That remains the case.
It has always, and will, remain, unlawful, to search someone purely because they are a certain age or ethnicity.
All the commissioner is saying is that more officers will be deployed to do this. |
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"Police need sensitivity training with regards to carrying out the searches. Also people need to not have such a big chip on their shoulder when asked, you should only have a problem with it if you regularly carry around weapons or contraband. I've been stopped and searched in the past. I didn't get arsey with the officer involved. The way I see it is if it finds weapons before they're used it can't be a bad thing. Sorry for the long post."
Good post.
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"How long before the civil rights bunch jump on the bandwagon? Like its been said. If you are doing nothing wrong what do you have to worry/complain about.
The Civil Rights of those being attacked are being taken away. They deserve the right to feel safe walking in their own towns and cities. Glasgow is no better. It’s the ages of those doing the atracking that appals me. It’s getting younger all the time. "
Yesterday I was sat at the bus stop and I could hear someone pssting. I took no notice then heared a loud whistle. Still ignored it until a boy of about 10 stood in front of me and said, didn't you hear me trying to get your attention?
One of my son-in-laws is ex-navy, ex royal marine, almost stands to attention when I enter a room and a little afraid of me, yet this child was standing in front of me with an attitude.
He then demanded I take out my phone and check the bus times! I've had army big wigs, high ranking civil servants stutter in my presence yet a cocky brat was making demands on me.
When I told him if he needed help, asking nicely instead of demanding would work better he told me I was a fucking cheeky cunt!
Sad thing was I just slightly raised one eyebrow, not remotely surprised by his attitude and language...language none of my children or son-in-laws use in front of me let alone to me...it's a different world.
If a child is like that to an adult easy to see how they resolve issues amongst themselves. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Its all good and well saying stop amd search will increase, but there are 2 major issues there.
1. The search has to be lawful. You need grounds to do the search.
2. Who is going to do the search? Cop numbers are dropping like a FAB favourites knickers!
Well they have announced there will be 300 new police officers on the streetshows of London.
Do you think it's enough?
There aren't 300 new officers. They've been relocated and made to work extra hours and longer hours.
Stop search will go part of the way, but the fundamental problem is social. Cut backs and lack of support, non existent social care AND youth development AND terrible attitudes are to blame.
"
Ah back to you first post it is then
I didn't have a go at this as I quite agree with this...on the policing I got that wrong but it was early when I posted it. And yeah obviously better parenting would be great but as said on other it has and I fear always be a problem. So yeah I think it is downainly to cuts in services...one can only cut so much before the shit hits the fan....and the fan is absolutely covered in shit now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So after cutting 20000 police roles the solution to increasing murder rates (and this is not a London specific issue) rising crime rates and a police force so stretched it can't investigate many low level crimes is 300 extra officers and to reintroduce the tinder box of racial profiling that is stop and search.
Yeah I can't see any problems with that |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
i think its an interesting subject because those people who probably yearn for stop and search to be brought back are probably people who haven't been on the end of a stop and search.....
they are not nice things.... take it from someone who has been thru a few..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i think its an interesting subject because those people who probably yearn for stop and search to be brought back are probably people who haven't been on the end of a stop and search.....
they are not nice things.... take it from someone who has been thru a few....."
A few years ago I was at kngs cross on the weekend of Notting Hill amd there was a stop and search in place on one of the platforms. Police literally stopped every afro-caribean person regardless of age or demeanour amd ignored everyone else.
It was horrible to witnes amd the tension in the air was incredibly intense. Can't help but think that Pissing off people in that way becomes a self fulfilling prophecy |
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"i think its an interesting subject because those people who probably yearn for stop and search to be brought back are probably people who haven't been on the end of a stop and search.....
they are not nice things.... take it from someone who has been thru a few....."
Absolutely. I'm 51, but being white and wearing a suit to work have never been stopped and searched.
I often think that those who say that if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about would feel if the police had power to randomly turn up on their doorstep and search their homes.
Why worry about that if you have done nothing wrong. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"i think its an interesting subject because those people who probably yearn for stop and search to be brought back are probably people who haven't been on the end of a stop and search.....
they are not nice things.... take it from someone who has been thru a few....."
With the greatest of respect _abio.
How would you try to tackle the rising stabbing attacks of recent? |
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"i think its an interesting subject because those people who probably yearn for stop and search to be brought back are probably people who haven't been on the end of a stop and search.....
they are not nice things.... take it from someone who has been thru a few.....
With the greatest of respect _abio.
How would you try to tackle the rising stabbing attacks of recent?"
Stop and search is a very blunt tool. As Fabio says if you do it randomly it alienates many innocent people and thus lessens the likelihood they will assist the police.
I would say the way forward is to build relationships with communities where knife crime takes place thus making the communities themselves sources of intelligence on criminals. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"i think its an interesting subject because those people who probably yearn for stop and search to be brought back are probably people who haven't been on the end of a stop and search.....
they are not nice things.... take it from someone who has been thru a few.....
With the greatest of respect _abio.
How would you try to tackle the rising stabbing attacks of recent?
Stop and search is a very blunt tool. As Fabio says if you do it randomly it alienates many innocent people and thus lessens the likelihood they will assist the police.
I would say the way forward is to build relationships with communities where knife crime takes place thus making the communities themselves sources of intelligence on criminals. "
I agree somewhat to what your saying but I've just been watching the wright stuff with people of varying views...and i know this will not go down well but I feel it needs to be brought back in as knife crime and chemical crimes are going through the roof....I also know I'm a white guy who does not live in a big city saying this with very little chance of being searched. But the simple facts are it has risen since it was stopped!
We need to use every thing available and that also means in involving communities and if done correctly it should still happen. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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They are assuming that these gang members walk around the streets armed with knives and guns.
They are more likely to catch people with illegal substances than knives.
What they can do is search premises where suspects who are arrested live and find the knives. I suspect most are hidden well. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"They are assuming that these gang members walk around the streets armed with knives and guns.
They are more likely to catch people with illegal substances than knives.
What they can do is search premises where suspects who are arrested live and find the knives. I suspect most are hidden well. "
I would disagree at this present time...if the likelihood is that you will not be searched it's not a deterrent no matter how long the sentence and also how do the convict someone for having carving knifes in their kitchens? The crime is carrying it and the same goes for kitchen chemicals. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Glasgow I believe had a knife crime problem a while ago so the police introduced a random stop and search policy, if memory serves they were the police force that carried out the most searches in the country.
The result was a huge reduction in knife crime.
Of course if your main concern is "cultural sensitivities" then you aren't really interested in solving the problem, you just wish it would go away.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I wouldn't do anything and think we should cut police numbers even further.
Your more likely to be killed by your toaster, it's all a media driven load of nonsense. |
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"They are assuming that these gang members walk around the streets armed with knives and guns.
They are more likely to catch people with illegal substances than knives.
What they can do is search premises where suspects who are arrested live and find the knives. I suspect most are hidden well. "
The offence is people having the knives on their person in public.
Using the search powers that you speak of post event means somethings tragically already happened surely if somebody is under arrest.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I wouldn't do anything and think we should cut police numbers even further.
Your more likely to be killed by your toaster, it's all a media driven load of nonsense."
Tells that to the victims parents and God forgive you got that news that a loved one has been stabbed to death. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Glasgow I believe had a knife crime problem a while ago so the police introduced a random stop and search policy, if memory serves they were the police force that carried out the most searches in the country.
The result was a huge reduction in knife crime.
Of course if your main concern is "cultural sensitivities" then you aren't really interested in solving the problem, you just wish it would go away.
"
And Glasgow has eased off on it and the knife crimes have risen since. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"They are assuming that these gang members walk around the streets armed with knives and guns.
They are more likely to catch people with illegal substances than knives.
What they can do is search premises where suspects who are arrested live and find the knives. I suspect most are hidden well.
The offence is people having the knives on their person in public.
Using the search powers that you speak of post event means somethings tragically already happened surely if somebody is under arrest.
"
I said that |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Glasgow I believe had a knife crime problem a while ago so the police introduced a random stop and search policy, if memory serves they were the police force that carried out the most searches in the country.
The result was a huge reduction in knife crime.
Of course if your main concern is "cultural sensitivities" then you aren't really interested in solving the problem, you just wish it would go away.
And Glasgow has eased off on it and the knife crimes have risen since."
Almost like there was a connection...go figure |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wouldn't do anything and think we should cut police numbers even further.
Your more likely to be killed by your toaster, it's all a media driven load of nonsense.
Tells that to the victims parents and God forgive you got that news that a loved one has been stabbed to death."
.
Ooh yea, that's awful, maybe if they let us all carry knifes instead, there might be less victims if we could fight back |
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"Glasgow I believe had a knife crime problem a while ago so the police introduced a random stop and search policy, if memory serves they were the police force that carried out the most searches in the country.
The result was a huge reduction in knife crime.
Of course if your main concern is "cultural sensitivities" then you aren't really interested in solving the problem, you just wish it would go away.
And Glasgow has eased off on it and the knife crimes have risen since.
Almost like there was a connection...go figure"
Studies in London have shown no correlation between use of stop and search and knife crime. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I wouldn't do anything and think we should cut police numbers even further.
Your more likely to be killed by your toaster, it's all a media driven load of nonsense.
Tells that to the victims parents and God forgive you got that news that a loved one has been stabbed to death..
Ooh yea, that's awful, maybe if they let us all carry knifes instead, there might be less victims if we could fight back"
Great idea....not. just go done America's route eh |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Glasgow I believe had a knife crime problem a while ago so the police introduced a random stop and search policy, if memory serves they were the police force that carried out the most searches in the country.
The result was a huge reduction in knife crime.
Of course if your main concern is "cultural sensitivities" then you aren't really interested in solving the problem, you just wish it would go away.
And Glasgow has eased off on it and the knife crimes have risen since.
Almost like there was a connection...go figure
Studies in London have shown no correlation between use of stop and search and knife crime. "
It depends who did the study! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Glasgow I believe had a knife crime problem a while ago so the police introduced a random stop and search policy, if memory serves they were the police force that carried out the most searches in the country.
The result was a huge reduction in knife crime.
Of course if your main concern is "cultural sensitivities" then you aren't really interested in solving the problem, you just wish it would go away.
And Glasgow has eased off on it and the knife crimes have risen since.
Almost like there was a connection...go figure
Studies in London have shown no correlation between use of stop and search and knife crime. "
Apart from when stop and search was reduced and since then stabbings have become what London is most famous for now.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wouldn't do anything and think we should cut police numbers even further.
Your more likely to be killed by your toaster, it's all a media driven load of nonsense.
Tells that to the victims parents and God forgive you got that news that a loved one has been stabbed to death..
Ooh yea, that's awful, maybe if they let us all carry knifes instead, there might be less victims if we could fight back
Great idea....not. just go done America's route eh "
.
So you don't think we should fight back then and just put up with being stabbed? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you have nothing to hide, whasts the problem, might also put off terrorists "
.
Apparently some people don't like being stop and searched and would prefer to be stabbed |
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"Glasgow I believe had a knife crime problem a while ago so the police introduced a random stop and search policy, if memory serves they were the police force that carried out the most searches in the country.
The result was a huge reduction in knife crime.
Of course if your main concern is "cultural sensitivities" then you aren't really interested in solving the problem, you just wish it would go away.
And Glasgow has eased off on it and the knife crimes have risen since.
Almost like there was a connection...go figure
Studies in London have shown no correlation between use of stop and search and knife crime.
Apart from when stop and search was reduced and since then stabbings have become what London is most famous for now.
"
When policy changed on stop and search back in 2011 knife crime initially went down. Hence no causal relationship between knife crime and stop and search.
This is a serious and complex issue. Knee jerk responses help no one. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I wouldn't do anything and think we should cut police numbers even further.
Your more likely to be killed by your toaster, it's all a media driven load of nonsense.
Tells that to the victims parents and God forgive you got that news that a loved one has been stabbed to death..
Ooh yea, that's awful, maybe if they let us all carry knifes instead, there might be less victims if we could fight back
Great idea....not. just go done America's route eh .
So you don't think we should fight back then and just put up with being stabbed?"
You know if everone carried them that it would only make matters worse....surely you can understand that. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Glasgow I believe had a knife crime problem a while ago so the police introduced a random stop and search policy, if memory serves they were the police force that carried out the most searches in the country.
The result was a huge reduction in knife crime.
Of course if your main concern is "cultural sensitivities" then you aren't really interested in solving the problem, you just wish it would go away.
And Glasgow has eased off on it and the knife crimes have risen since.
Almost like there was a connection...go figure
Studies in London have shown no correlation between use of stop and search and knife crime.
Apart from when stop and search was reduced and since then stabbings have become what London is most famous for now.
When policy changed on stop and search back in 2011 knife crime initially went down. Hence no causal relationship between knife crime and stop and search.
This is a serious and complex issue. Knee jerk responses help no one. "
Nether does doing nothing. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"If you have nothing to hide, whasts the problem, might also put off terrorists
I think you might be a drug dealer. Can I come round your house and search it to check? "
Your mixing it up.. it's about carrying knifes not what's in your house. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I wouldn't do anything and think we should cut police numbers even further.
Your more likely to be killed by your toaster, it's all a media driven load of nonsense.
Tells that to the victims parents and God forgive you got that news that a loved one has been stabbed to death..
Ooh yea, that's awful, maybe if they let us all carry knifes instead, there might be less victims if we could fight back
Great idea....not. just go done America's route eh .
So you don't think we should fight back then and just put up with being stabbed?
You know if everone carried them that it would only make matters worse....surely you can understand that."
.
Why? Are you telling me that law abiding people would start knifing people if they had a knife?.
I've got a knife on me now but I'm not inclined to knife anyone |
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"Glasgow I believe had a knife crime problem a while ago so the police introduced a random stop and search policy, if memory serves they were the police force that carried out the most searches in the country.
The result was a huge reduction in knife crime.
Of course if your main concern is "cultural sensitivities" then you aren't really interested in solving the problem, you just wish it would go away.
And Glasgow has eased off on it and the knife crimes have risen since.
Almost like there was a connection...go figure
Studies in London have shown no correlation between use of stop and search and knife crime.
Apart from when stop and search was reduced and since then stabbings have become what London is most famous for now.
When policy changed on stop and search back in 2011 knife crime initially went down. Hence no causal relationship between knife crime and stop and search.
This is a serious and complex issue. Knee jerk responses help no one.
Nether does doing nothing."
It possible increasing stop and search could make things worse by alienating communities and thus lessening intelligence from said communities. This loss of intelligence could outweigh any benefits gained by an increase in stop and search.
These things need evidence based policy not knee jerk reaction. |
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"If you have nothing to hide, whasts the problem, might also put off terrorists
I think you might be a drug dealer. Can I come round your house and search it to check?
Your mixing it up.. it's about carrying knifes not what's in your house."
But he's got nothing to hide where's the problem? |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I wouldn't do anything and think we should cut police numbers even further.
Your more likely to be killed by your toaster, it's all a media driven load of nonsense.
Tells that to the victims parents and God forgive you got that news that a loved one has been stabbed to death..
Ooh yea, that's awful, maybe if they let us all carry knifes instead, there might be less victims if we could fight back
Great idea....not. just go done America's route eh .
So you don't think we should fight back then and just put up with being stabbed?
You know if everone carried them that it would only make matters worse....surely you can understand that..
Why? Are you telling me that law abiding people would start knifing people if they had a knife?.
I've got a knife on me now but I'm not inclined to knife anyone"
But it would give the non law abiding people a free for all. And if your not just trying to wind up I hope you have a good work related reason for carrying a knife...if not I hope you get nicked. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Glasgow I believe had a knife crime problem a while ago so the police introduced a random stop and search policy, if memory serves they were the police force that carried out the most searches in the country.
The result was a huge reduction in knife crime.
Of course if your main concern is "cultural sensitivities" then you aren't really interested in solving the problem, you just wish it would go away.
And Glasgow has eased off on it and the knife crimes have risen since.
Almost like there was a connection...go figure
Studies in London have shown no correlation between use of stop and search and knife crime.
Apart from when stop and search was reduced and since then stabbings have become what London is most famous for now.
When policy changed on stop and search back in 2011 knife crime initially went down. Hence no causal relationship between knife crime and stop and search.
This is a serious and complex issue. Knee jerk responses help no one.
Nether does doing nothing.
It possible increasing stop and search could make things worse by alienating communities and thus lessening intelligence from said communities. This loss of intelligence could outweigh any benefits gained by an increase in stop and search.
These things need evidence based policy not knee jerk reaction. "
.
That's right, I'd rather hate the police than shop a murderer in those circumstances as well |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I wouldn't do anything and think we should cut police numbers even further.
Your more likely to be killed by your toaster, it's all a media driven load of nonsense.
Tells that to the victims parents and God forgive you got that news that a loved one has been stabbed to death..
Ooh yea, that's awful, maybe if they let us all carry knifes instead, there might be less victims if we could fight back
Great idea....not. just go done America's route eh .
So you don't think we should fight back then and just put up with being stabbed?
You know if everone carried them that it would only make matters worse....surely you can understand that..
Why? Are you telling me that law abiding people would start knifing people if they had a knife?.
I've got a knife on me now but I'm not inclined to knife anyone
But it would give the non law abiding people a free for all. And if your not just trying to wind up I hope you have a good work related reason for carrying a knife...if not I hope you get nicked."
.
Yeah I'm cutting bits of rope up for weaving a hedge together |
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"Glasgow I believe had a knife crime problem a while ago so the police introduced a random stop and search policy, if memory serves they were the police force that carried out the most searches in the country.
The result was a huge reduction in knife crime.
Of course if your main concern is "cultural sensitivities" then you aren't really interested in solving the problem, you just wish it would go away.
And Glasgow has eased off on it and the knife crimes have risen since.
Almost like there was a connection...go figure
Studies in London have shown no correlation between use of stop and search and knife crime.
Apart from when stop and search was reduced and since then stabbings have become what London is most famous for now.
When policy changed on stop and search back in 2011 knife crime initially went down. Hence no causal relationship between knife crime and stop and search.
This is a serious and complex issue. Knee jerk responses help no one.
Nether does doing nothing.
It possible increasing stop and search could make things worse by alienating communities and thus lessening intelligence from said communities. This loss of intelligence could outweigh any benefits gained by an increase in stop and search.
These things need evidence based policy not knee jerk reaction. .
That's right, I'd rather hate the police than shop a murderer in those circumstances as well"
If whole communities see the police as the enemy, then they will have nothing to do with them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Existing laws should be more than adequate. Police are already allowed to stop and search within "probable cause" i.e. cause to suspect wrong doing.
This is a knee-jerk reaction to recent crimes in the capital and I am very sceptical about whether random stop and seach would have prevented these or will prevent others in the future.
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Existing laws should be more than adequate. Police are already allowed to stop and search within "probable cause" i.e. cause to suspect wrong doing.
This is a knee-jerk reaction to recent crimes in the capital and I am very sceptical about whether random stop and seach would have prevented these or will prevent others in the future.
"
There was a top copper on the box today and he reckoned any police with less then five years service have not been trained to do stop and search...so that ruins that theory. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Glasgow I believe had a knife crime problem a while ago so the police introduced a random stop and search policy, if memory serves they were the police force that carried out the most searches in the country.
The result was a huge reduction in knife crime.
Of course if your main concern is "cultural sensitivities" then you aren't really interested in solving the problem, you just wish it would go away.
And Glasgow has eased off on it and the knife crimes have risen since.
Almost like there was a connection...go figure
Studies in London have shown no correlation between use of stop and search and knife crime.
Apart from when stop and search was reduced and since then stabbings have become what London is most famous for now.
When policy changed on stop and search back in 2011 knife crime initially went down. Hence no causal relationship between knife crime and stop and search.
This is a serious and complex issue. Knee jerk responses help no one.
Nether does doing nothing.
It possible increasing stop and search could make things worse by alienating communities and thus lessening intelligence from said communities. This loss of intelligence could outweigh any benefits gained by an increase in stop and search.
These things need evidence based policy not knee jerk reaction. .
That's right, I'd rather hate the police than shop a murderer in those circumstances as well
If whole communities see the police as the enemy, then they will have nothing to do with them. "
.
Exactly, you'll side with knife murderers over the police any day |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Existing laws should be more than adequate. Police are already allowed to stop and search within "probable cause" i.e. cause to suspect wrong doing.
This is a knee-jerk reaction to recent crimes in the capital and I am very sceptical about whether random stop and seach would have prevented these or will prevent others in the future.
There was a top copper on the box today and he reckoned any police with less then five years service have not been trained to do stop and search...so that ruins that theory."
I think it underlines my point tbh. Existing laws are fine if the police are trained and resourced to do their job properly. And if police are incapable of carrying out searches effectively within the present law, how on earth is giving them extra stop-search powers going to improve anything?
Your comment raises another issue though, which is that maybe this is just another gambit in the never ending battle between HMG and the MET. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Glasgow I believe had a knife crime problem a while ago so the police introduced a random stop and search policy, if memory serves they were the police force that carried out the most searches in the country.
The result was a huge reduction in knife crime.
Of course if your main concern is "cultural sensitivities" then you aren't really interested in solving the problem, you just wish it would go away.
And Glasgow has eased off on it and the knife crimes have risen since.
Almost like there was a connection...go figure
Studies in London have shown no correlation between use of stop and search and knife crime.
Apart from when stop and search was reduced and since then stabbings have become what London is most famous for now.
When policy changed on stop and search back in 2011 knife crime initially went down. Hence no causal relationship between knife crime and stop and search.
This is a serious and complex issue. Knee jerk responses help no one.
Nether does doing nothing.
It possible increasing stop and search could make things worse by alienating communities and thus lessening intelligence from said communities. This loss of intelligence could outweigh any benefits gained by an increase in stop and search.
These things need evidence based policy not knee jerk reaction. "
Yes I agree - building community cohesion should be the way forward - random stop and search may well alienate the very people who the police need to build trust with. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
So we can't carry a knife to defend ourselves from knife attackers, we can't stop and search the likely knife attackers to take the knifes off them, if we alienate the community there from, they'll rather they stab us than tell us anything and even if we did do any of this, we haven't got the police mam power to do it anyhow?.
.
And we wonder why everybody's emigrating to Australia |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So we can't carry a knife to defend ourselves from knife attackers, we can't stop and search the likely knife attackers to take the knifes off them, if we alienate the community there from, they'll rather they stab us than tell us anything and even if we did do any of this, we haven't got the police mam power to do it anyhow?.
.
And we wonder why everybody's emigrating to Australia"
So who are "the likely knife attackers" then, and why are probable cause laws insufficient? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Police need sensitivity training with regards to carrying out the searches. Also people need to not have such a big chip on their shoulder when asked, you should only have a problem with it if you regularly carry around weapons or contraband. I've been stopped and searched in the past. I didn't get arsey with the officer involved. The way I see it is if it finds weapons before they're used it can't be a bad thing. Sorry for the long post."
Well said |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So we can't carry a knife to defend ourselves from knife attackers, we can't stop and search the likely knife attackers to take the knifes off them, if we alienate the community there from, they'll rather they stab us than tell us anything and even if we did do any of this, we haven't got the police mam power to do it anyhow?.
.
And we wonder why everybody's emigrating to Australia
So who are "the likely knife attackers" then, and why are probable cause laws insufficient? "
.I dunno
60 year old one armed Chinese disabled lesbian women maybe, they always look suspicious to me |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Glasgow I believe had a knife crime problem a while ago so the police introduced a random stop and search policy, if memory serves they were the police force that carried out the most searches in the country.
The result was a huge reduction in knife crime.
Of course if your main concern is "cultural sensitivities" then you aren't really interested in solving the problem, you just wish it would go away.
And Glasgow has eased off on it and the knife crimes have risen since.
Almost like there was a connection...go figure
Studies in London have shown no correlation between use of stop and search and knife crime.
Apart from when stop and search was reduced and since then stabbings have become what London is most famous for now.
When policy changed on stop and search back in 2011 knife crime initially went down. Hence no causal relationship between knife crime and stop and search.
This is a serious and complex issue. Knee jerk responses help no one. "
Cool, how's that worked out long term? |
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