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Unlearn your gaze
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"To me 'fat' people just seem unhealthy and overall unattractive. Call it having high standards but anyone who is over average or hourglass curvy is just not attractive to me, if they catch in my site I immediately look away. " woudnt call it having high standards. I would call it having a preference for slimmer,healthier looking (in your view) people | |||
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"To me 'fat' people just seem unhealthy and overall unattractive. Call it having high standards but anyone who is over average or hourglass curvy is just not attractive to me, if they catch in my site I immediately look away. " Not quite sure you’re in the matrix.  | |||
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"I had a body of a "fat" size and decided instead not to be fat and to save myself from a higher risk of disease, and to give a healthy body image to my child. It's patronising in the extreme to say that is was societal norms that made me change - it was a knowledge of the risks to my health of being overweight. Obesity is a disease like any other and people who have it should be helped to change. Should we start alcoholic acceptance as well?" Nods. | |||
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"I had a body of a "fat" size and decided instead not to be fat and to save myself from a higher risk of disease, and to give a healthy body image to my child. It's patronising in the extreme to say that is was societal norms that made me change - it was a knowledge of the risks to my health of being overweight. Obesity is a disease like any other and people who have it should be helped to change. Should we start alcoholic acceptance as well?" see I don’t see obesity as a disease. Yes some people have medical issues that resulted in weight gain. And some are just greedy or lazy or both | |||
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"I’m commenting on this thread just to keep updated with it. I’m not sure on my own opinion if I’m honest, I don’t think I’m intellectual enough to form what I’d be trying to say into words. Following for other people’s opinions/arguments however. "Me too | |||
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"To me 'fat' people just seem unhealthy and overall unattractive. Call it having high standards but anyone who is over average or hourglass curvy is just not attractive to me, if they catch in my site I immediately look away. Not quite sure you’re in the matrix. "Why not? You said normalised. Am I not? | |||
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"I’m more than likely guilty of a few of these things, I like white guys and not fat. I don’t know if it’s confirming to society’s rules but it’s what I like. But I don’t shy away from being in the company of fat people of either sex, my friends I pick on personally not size x " I hear ya. | |||
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"To me 'fat' people just seem unhealthy and overall unattractive. Call it having high standards but anyone who is over average or hourglass curvy is just not attractive to me, if they catch in my site I immediately look away. " Oh dear  | |||
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"To me 'fat' people just seem unhealthy and overall unattractive. Call it having high standards but anyone who is over average or hourglass curvy is just not attractive to me, if they catch in my site I immediately look away. Not quite sure you’re in the matrix.
Why not? You said normalised. Am I not? "I was joking about the matrix but further down.  | |||
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"To me 'fat' people just seem unhealthy and overall unattractive. Call it having high standards but anyone who is over average or hourglass curvy is just not attractive to me, if they catch in my site I immediately look away. Not quite sure you’re in the matrix.
Why not? You said normalised. Am I not?
I was joking about the matrix but further down. "*bit | |||
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"I'm a lollypop headed tranny,,,oooh la la lollypop "You’re beautiful. | |||
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"Robert Collier once said "Our subconscious minds have no sense of humor, play no jokes and cannot tell the difference between reality and an imagined thought or image. What we continually think about eventually will manifest in our lives.” During the same period Claude M. Bristol said "Every person is the creation of themself, the image of his/her thinking and believing. as individuals think and believe, so they are." . So if our subconscious mind can not tell the difference between reality or an imagined thought, and we have no control over what information our subconscious mind absorbs, what is the true reality. So taking into account that what is in our subconscious will manifest itself with in our life are we truly created by our own thoughts and beliefs or our we more controlled with in our personal growth by the media input within our lives even if we do not believe the image in the media is true and is only a false image that they portray. I think this is one of the reasons why in today's society bigger people are seen as less desirable, or sexually attractive. For me I feel in some ways in.lucky if I had to label my sexuality I would say I was demi\pan so I honestly do not have a type and see beauty in the emotional connection I make with them No matter the race gender size colour etc. " Interesting | |||
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"To me 'fat' people just seem unhealthy and overall unattractive. Call it having high standards but anyone who is over average or hourglass curvy is just not attractive to me, if they catch in my site I immediately look away. Oh dear "It’s his opinion. | |||
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 ) - will be back later | |||
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"Some good points in there, particularly on the impact of cultural norms. People are very quick to say 'its just my preference!' but are rarely willing to consider where their preferences might come from." Oh missed your response! Sorry. And yes! Exactly my point. Xx | |||
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"I'm a lollypop headed tranny,,,oooh la la lollypop
You’re beautiful. "so are you babes,x | |||
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"Do I want/need/have to unlearn my gaze? Is there something wrong with not finding fat people attractive? I don't think there is, and whilst I'll never go out of my way to make someone feel bad, I don't know why anyone would expect me to beat myself up over my preferences." That is exactly the question being posed. | |||
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"To me 'fat' people just seem unhealthy and overall unattractive. Call it having high standards but anyone who is over average or hourglass curvy is just not attractive to me, if they catch in my site I immediately look away. Not quite sure you’re in the matrix.
Why not? You said normalised. Am I not?
I was joking about the matrix but further down.
*bit"Fair enough. | |||
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"Do I want/need/have to unlearn my gaze? Is there something wrong with not finding fat people attractive? I don't think there is, and whilst I'll never go out of my way to make someone feel bad, I don't know why anyone would expect me to beat myself up over my preferences." I don't think the idea is to beat yourself up; it's just something to think about. | |||
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"To me 'fat' people just seem unhealthy and overall unattractive. Call it having high standards but anyone who is over average or hourglass curvy is just not attractive to me, if they catch in my site I immediately look away. " Interesting thought. Iam a big guy in.ex rugby player, servered in the forces. My cholesterol blood pressure etc are spot on. I work anywhere between 40 to 60 hours a week and can party in the swinging lifestyle all weekend. Oat he over weight but does not mean i am unhealthy. And don't get me started on the comment high standard. Noone in this world is better or.worse than anyone else in this world. You simply have preferences on what you find attractive. The same as someone who does not find someone attractive due to being too thin, race or even as something small.like beards | |||
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"I had a body of a "fat" size and decided instead not to be fat and to save myself from a higher risk of disease, and to give a healthy body image to my child. It's patronising in the extreme to say that is was societal norms that made me change - it was a knowledge of the risks to my health of being overweight. Obesity is a disease like any other and people who have it should be helped to change. Should we start alcoholic acceptance as well?see I don’t see obesity as a disease. Yes some people have medical issues that resulted in weight gain. And some are just greedy or lazy or both" It is a mental disease just like any other addiction. I see the parallels between it and alcoholism as quite striking. It is perfectly fine and possibly good for you to enjoy alcohol or calorie dense foods (I despise labelling foods as either "good" or "bad"), but overconsumption can have serious medical risks. Possibly people should be offered counselling by their GP once they reach a certain body fat percentage. I see the "fat acceptance" movement as being very much the same as "pro ana" lifestyle groups. To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. | |||
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"To me 'fat' people just seem unhealthy and overall unattractive. Call it having high standards but anyone who is over average or hourglass curvy is just not attractive to me, if they catch in my site I immediately look away. " Thin people can also be unhealthy... | |||
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" To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. " The opening post is not at all 'lumping it in' with LGBTQ. It's obviously written to a queer audience and is pointing out that thinking outside the norm should be applied to all situations. It's not calling for 'Fat Pride' marches or something. The rest of your post demonising overweight people as mentally ill is extremely dehumanising and judgmental. | |||
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  and he always displayed his love and affection for me in public | |||
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"To me 'fat' people just seem unhealthy and overall unattractive. Call it having high standards but anyone who is over average or hourglass curvy is just not attractive to me, if they catch in my site I immediately look away. Thin people can also be unhealthy... " I'm not denying that. But another way of explaining it would, be that they don't care about themselves enough to better themselves. Thats a better explanation of my reasoning. | |||
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"I'm gonna say it's for evolutionary reasons" And yet in some cultures there is no body shaming on size... | |||
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"Im fat. Its not attractive" But why isn’t it ? Isn’t that the point of the op ? | |||
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"Im fat. Its not attractive But why isn’t it ? Isn’t that the point of the op ?" | |||
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"I had a body of a "fat" size and decided instead not to be fat and to save myself from a higher risk of disease, and to give a healthy body image to my child. It's patronising in the extreme to say that is was societal norms that made me change - it was a knowledge of the risks to my health of being overweight. Obesity is a disease like any other and people who have it should be helped to change. Should we start alcoholic acceptance as well?see I don’t see obesity as a disease. Yes some people have medical issues that resulted in weight gain. And some are just greedy or lazy or both It is a mental disease just like any other addiction. I see the parallels between it and alcoholism as quite striking. It is perfectly fine and possibly good for you to enjoy alcohol or calorie dense foods (I despise labelling foods as either "good" or "bad"), but overconsumption can have serious medical risks. Possibly people should be offered counselling by their GP once they reach a certain body fat percentage. I see the "fat acceptance" movement as being very much the same as "pro ana" lifestyle groups. To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. " yea I suppose you are right it is a mental disease | |||
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"Im fat. Its not attractive" It is to some | |||
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"Do I want/need/have to unlearn my gaze? Is there something wrong with not finding fat people attractive? I don't think there is, and whilst I'll never go out of my way to make someone feel bad, I don't know why anyone would expect me to beat myself up over my preferences."
If I don't find slim white women or fat black men attractive - or whoever else - then I just don't. I won't be made to feel bad about who I'm attracted to. Feels like when people are made to feel ashamed for being gay. | |||
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" To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. The opening post is not at all 'lumping it in' with LGBTQ. It's obviously written to a queer audience and is pointing out that thinking outside the norm should be applied to all situations. It's not calling for 'Fat Pride' marches or something. The rest of your post demonising overweight people as mentally ill is extremely dehumanising and judgmental." I'd call for marches. Less fat people. | |||
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"I had a body of a "fat" size and decided instead not to be fat and to save myself from a higher risk of disease, and to give a healthy body image to my child. It's patronising in the extreme to say that is was societal norms that made me change - it was a knowledge of the risks to my health of being overweight. Obesity is a disease like any other and people who have it should be helped to change. Should we start alcoholic acceptance as well?see I don’t see obesity as a disease. Yes some people have medical issues that resulted in weight gain. And some are just greedy or lazy or both It is a mental disease just like any other addiction. I see the parallels between it and alcoholism as quite striking. It is perfectly fine and possibly good for you to enjoy alcohol or calorie dense foods (I despise labelling foods as either "good" or "bad"), but overconsumption can have serious medical risks. Possibly people should be offered counselling by their GP once they reach a certain body fat percentage. I see the "fat acceptance" movement as being very much the same as "pro ana" lifestyle groups. To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. yea I suppose you are right it is a mental disease " Having tattoos and body modification is too according to the manual. Just saying. | |||
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" To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. The opening post is not at all 'lumping it in' with LGBTQ. It's obviously written to a queer audience and is pointing out that thinking outside the norm should be applied to all situations. It's not calling for 'Fat Pride' marches or something. The rest of your post demonising overweight people as mentally ill is extremely dehumanising and judgmental." Is doing the same about the "pro ana" movement or alcoholism also judgemental? | |||
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"To me 'fat' people just seem unhealthy and overall unattractive. Call it having high standards but anyone who is over average or hourglass curvy is just not attractive to me, if they catch in my site I immediately look away. Thin people can also be unhealthy... I'm not denying that. But another way of explaining it would, be that they don't care about themselves enough to better themselves. Thats a better explanation of my reasoning. " I am intelligent happy caring funny and well loved by the people in my life. I am a big cuddle man and totally happy with who and what I am. How egotistical of you to think that someone who is not body thin does not care about themselves. I don't need to change who I am and don't feel the need to better myself. | |||
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"hmmm,thin fat,curvey,straight,gay,,quite a choice,,what ever floats yer boat eh. rude people,,now they are unattractive " True story! | |||
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"hmmm,thin fat,curvey,straight,gay,,quite a choice,,what ever floats yer boat eh. rude people,,now they are unattractive " Exactly | |||
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"I had a body of a "fat" size and decided instead not to be fat and to save myself from a higher risk of disease, and to give a healthy body image to my child. It's patronising in the extreme to say that is was societal norms that made me change - it was a knowledge of the risks to my health of being overweight. Obesity is a disease like any other and people who have it should be helped to change. Should we start alcoholic acceptance as well?see I don’t see obesity as a disease. Yes some people have medical issues that resulted in weight gain. And some are just greedy or lazy or both It is a mental disease just like any other addiction. I see the parallels between it and alcoholism as quite striking. It is perfectly fine and possibly good for you to enjoy alcohol or calorie dense foods (I despise labelling foods as either "good" or "bad"), but overconsumption can have serious medical risks. Possibly people should be offered counselling by their GP once they reach a certain body fat percentage. I see the "fat acceptance" movement as being very much the same as "pro ana" lifestyle groups. To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. yea I suppose you are right it is a mental disease Having tattoos and body modification is too according to the manual. Just saying. "Really? Does having a tattoo increase your risk of several diseases including cancer? | |||
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" To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. The opening post is not at all 'lumping it in' with LGBTQ. It's obviously written to a queer audience and is pointing out that thinking outside the norm should be applied to all situations. It's not calling for 'Fat Pride' marches or something.i think he is right in saying it’s a mental disease in some ways va lot of my weight gain is due to depression and comfort eating , But not all of it. I am admittedly lazy The rest of your post demonising overweight people as mentally ill is extremely dehumanising and judgmental." | |||
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" To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. The opening post is not at all 'lumping it in' with LGBTQ. It's obviously written to a queer audience and is pointing out that thinking outside the norm should be applied to all situations. It's not calling for 'Fat Pride' marches or something. The rest of your post demonising overweight people as mentally ill is extremely dehumanising and judgmental. Is doing the same about the "pro ana" movement or alcoholism also judgemental?" Given that those 2 things are not at all similar to being fat, yes. | |||
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"To me 'fat' people just seem unhealthy and overall unattractive. Call it having high standards but anyone who is over average or hourglass curvy is just not attractive to me, if they catch in my site I immediately look away. Thin people can also be unhealthy... I'm not denying that. But another way of explaining it would, be that they don't care about themselves enough to better themselves. Thats a better explanation of my reasoning. I am intelligent happy caring funny and well loved by the people in my life. I am a big cuddle man and totally happy with who and what I am. How egotistical of you to think that someone who is not body thin does not care about themselves. I don't need to change who I am and don't feel the need to better myself. " Fair enough, I am the slimmest out of my parents, but my mum is disabled so it's not her fault. For me its not much ego but more on the fact that when a person is overweight, they seem to have a lack of self control. If its come from muscle build then you cannot do much about that. | |||
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"I had a body of a "fat" size and decided instead not to be fat and to save myself from a higher risk of disease, and to give a healthy body image to my child. It's patronising in the extreme to say that is was societal norms that made me change - it was a knowledge of the risks to my health of being overweight. Obesity is a disease like any other and people who have it should be helped to change. Should we start alcoholic acceptance as well?see I don’t see obesity as a disease. Yes some people have medical issues that resulted in weight gain. And some are just greedy or lazy or both It is a mental disease just like any other addiction. I see the parallels between it and alcoholism as quite striking. It is perfectly fine and possibly good for you to enjoy alcohol or calorie dense foods (I despise labelling foods as either "good" or "bad"), but overconsumption can have serious medical risks. Possibly people should be offered counselling by their GP once they reach a certain body fat percentage. I see the "fat acceptance" movement as being very much the same as "pro ana" lifestyle groups. To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. yea I suppose you are right it is a mental disease Having tattoos and body modification is too according to the manual. Just saying.
Really? Does having a tattoo increase your risk of several diseases including cancer?"No idea! That’s not the basis for defining something a mental illness - check the DSM, I didn’t write it!
(Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorder) | |||
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"A mental disease? I don't know about that, can be medical through health problems etc, thyroid problems etc, genetics .. on the most I would say it's lifestyle choices. " You’re right, there are many reasons why someone has a different body size. | |||
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"I'm gonna say it's for evolutionary reasons And yet in some cultures there is no body shaming on size..." So all sizes are seen as equally desirable? | |||
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"I had a body of a "fat" size and decided instead not to be fat and to save myself from a higher risk of disease, and to give a healthy body image to my child. It's patronising in the extreme to say that is was societal norms that made me change - it was a knowledge of the risks to my health of being overweight. Obesity is a disease like any other and people who have it should be helped to change. Should we start alcoholic acceptance as well?see I don’t see obesity as a disease. Yes some people have medical issues that resulted in weight gain. And some are just greedy or lazy or both It is a mental disease just like any other addiction. I see the parallels between it and alcoholism as quite striking. It is perfectly fine and possibly good for you to enjoy alcohol or calorie dense foods (I despise labelling foods as either "good" or "bad"), but overconsumption can have serious medical risks. Possibly people should be offered counselling by their GP once they reach a certain body fat percentage. I see the "fat acceptance" movement as being very much the same as "pro ana" lifestyle groups. To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. yea I suppose you are right it is a mental disease Having tattoos and body modification is too according to the manual. Just saying.
Really? Does having a tattoo increase your risk of several diseases including cancer?"Alot of things in life increase your risk to diseases. Just a question do you like alcohol. That has been shown to increase the risk of 60 medical conditions. Over exercising has also. So has being underweight. Eating the wrong foods. Red meat. The list goes on and on so why single out one group of people. | |||
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"I'm gonna say it's for evolutionary reasons And yet in some cultures there is no body shaming on size... So all sizes are seen as equally desirable?" Yes. | |||
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"A mental disease? I don't know about that, can be medical through health problems etc, thyroid problems etc, genetics .. on the most I would say it's lifestyle choices. You’re right, there are many reasons why someone has a different body size. "Course I'm right | |||
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" To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. The opening post is not at all 'lumping it in' with LGBTQ. It's obviously written to a queer audience and is pointing out that thinking outside the norm should be applied to all situations. It's not calling for 'Fat Pride' marches or something. The rest of your post demonising overweight people as mentally ill is extremely dehumanising and judgmental. Is doing the same about the "pro ana" movement or alcoholism also judgemental? Given that those 2 things are not at all similar to being fat, yes. " The pro ana movement is the other side of the same coin. Promoting an unhealthy lifestyle that restricts calories in extremis is ok, but promoting one that consumes them in extremis is fine? | |||
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"I had a body of a "fat" size and decided instead not to be fat and to save myself from a higher risk of disease, and to give a healthy body image to my child. It's patronising in the extreme to say that is was societal norms that made me change - it was a knowledge of the risks to my health of being overweight. Obesity is a disease like any other and people who have it should be helped to change. Should we start alcoholic acceptance as well?see I don’t see obesity as a disease. Yes some people have medical issues that resulted in weight gain. And some are just greedy or lazy or both It is a mental disease just like any other addiction. I see the parallels between it and alcoholism as quite striking. It is perfectly fine and possibly good for you to enjoy alcohol or calorie dense foods (I despise labelling foods as either "good" or "bad"), but overconsumption can have serious medical risks. Possibly people should be offered counselling by their GP once they reach a certain body fat percentage. I see the "fat acceptance" movement as being very much the same as "pro ana" lifestyle groups. To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. yea I suppose you are right it is a mental disease Having tattoos and body modification is too according to the manual. Just saying.
Really? Does having a tattoo increase your risk of several diseases including cancer?
Alot of things in life increase your risk to diseases. Just a question do you like alcohol. That has been shown to increase the risk of 60 medical conditions.
Over exercising has also. So has being underweight. Eating the wrong foods. Red meat. The list goes on and on so why single out one group of people.
"Re: alcohol- it hasn't in moderation, just like the consumption of calorie dense foods haven't in moderation. See my earlier post. Over exercising is extremely niche. I'll wager it isn't seen often. Possibly in the elite groups of the forces? | |||
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"Forget about body size. Women are seeking out men with less and less testosterone. Ones who agree with them all the time, ones who sit down and discuss stuff with them, ones who are a shoulder to cry on. So no matter your body size, if youre a female just tell the men that they have to accept it, and 90% of them will. Why worry about the 10% of others. Pick the ones that say "it's fine darling", and pay for the ivf treatment. Simple."  | |||
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" To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. The opening post is not at all 'lumping it in' with LGBTQ. It's obviously written to a queer audience and is pointing out that thinking outside the norm should be applied to all situations. It's not calling for 'Fat Pride' marches or something. The rest of your post demonising overweight people as mentally ill is extremely dehumanising and judgmental. Is doing the same about the "pro ana" movement or alcoholism also judgemental? Given that those 2 things are not at all similar to being fat, yes. The pro ana movement is the other side of the same coin. Promoting an unhealthy lifestyle that restricts calories in extremis is ok, but promoting one that consumes them in extremis is fine?" Literally no one (other than 'feeders', I guess) is promoting over eating 'in extremis'. This is called a strawman. 'Fat acceptance' does not mean 'hey everyone should be as fat as possible, it's great!' It means 'let's not be jerks to overweight people'. Y'know, like labelling them mentally ill. | |||
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"Forget about body size. Women are seeking out men with less and less testosterone. Ones who agree with them all the time, ones who sit down and discuss stuff with them, ones who are a shoulder to cry on. So no matter your body size, if youre a female just tell the men that they have to accept it, and 90% of them will. Why worry about the 10% of others. Pick the ones that say "it's fine darling", and pay for the ivf treatment. Simple." She said no, didn’t she? Wanna hug? | |||
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"Forget about body size. Women are seeking out men with less and less testosterone. Ones who agree with them all the time, ones who sit down and discuss stuff with them, ones who are a shoulder to cry on. So no matter your body size, if youre a female just tell the men that they have to accept it, and 90% of them will. Why worry about the 10% of others. Pick the ones that say "it's fine darling", and pay for the ivf treatment. Simple." | |||
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" To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. The opening post is not at all 'lumping it in' with LGBTQ. It's obviously written to a queer audience and is pointing out that thinking outside the norm should be applied to all situations. It's not calling for 'Fat Pride' marches or something. The rest of your post demonising overweight people as mentally ill is extremely dehumanising and judgmental. Is doing the same about the "pro ana" movement or alcoholism also judgemental? Given that those 2 things are not at all similar to being fat, yes. The pro ana movement is the other side of the same coin. Promoting an unhealthy lifestyle that restricts calories in extremis is ok, but promoting one that consumes them in extremis is fine? Literally no one (other than 'feeders', I guess) is promoting over eating 'in extremis'. This is called a strawman. 'Fat acceptance' does not mean 'hey everyone should be as fat as possible, it's great!' It means 'let's not be jerks to overweight people'. Y'know, like labelling them mentally ill." | |||
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"Forget about body size. Women are seeking out men with less and less testosterone. Ones who agree with them all the time, ones who sit down and discuss stuff with them, ones who are a shoulder to cry on. So no matter your body size, if youre a female just tell the men that they have to accept it, and 90% of them will. Why worry about the 10% of others. Pick the ones that say "it's fine darling", and pay for the ivf treatment. Simple." It’s the Soy I tell you | |||
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" To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. The opening post is not at all 'lumping it in' with LGBTQ. It's obviously written to a queer audience and is pointing out that thinking outside the norm should be applied to all situations. It's not calling for 'Fat Pride' marches or something. The rest of your post demonising overweight people as mentally ill is extremely dehumanising and judgmental. Is doing the same about the "pro ana" movement or alcoholism also judgemental? Given that those 2 things are not at all similar to being fat, yes. The pro ana movement is the other side of the same coin. Promoting an unhealthy lifestyle that restricts calories in extremis is ok, but promoting one that consumes them in extremis is fine? Literally no one (other than 'feeders', I guess) is promoting over eating 'in extremis'. This is called a strawman. 'Fat acceptance' does not mean 'hey everyone should be as fat as possible, it's great!' It means 'let's not be jerks to overweight people'. Y'know, like labelling them mentally ill." So would you say that "labelling" anorexics as mentally ill is also wrong? Also; I clearly said "obese" and not "far people". | |||
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" To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. The opening post is not at all 'lumping it in' with LGBTQ. It's obviously written to a queer audience and is pointing out that thinking outside the norm should be applied to all situations. It's not calling for 'Fat Pride' marches or something. The rest of your post demonising overweight people as mentally ill is extremely dehumanising and judgmental. Is doing the same about the "pro ana" movement or alcoholism also judgemental? Given that those 2 things are not at all similar to being fat, yes. The pro ana movement is the other side of the same coin. Promoting an unhealthy lifestyle that restricts calories in extremis is ok, but promoting one that consumes them in extremis is fine? Literally no one (other than 'feeders', I guess) is promoting over eating 'in extremis'. This is called a strawman. 'Fat acceptance' does not mean 'hey everyone should be as fat as possible, it's great!' It means 'let's not be jerks to overweight people'. Y'know, like labelling them mentally ill. So would you say that "labelling" anorexics as mentally ill is also wrong? Also; I clearly said "obese" and not "far people"." Not all people whom are obese have mental illness. There are many reasons why people get to the stage of being obese. Agreed some have food addiction and other mental health issues. Some don't. | |||
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" To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. The opening post is not at all 'lumping it in' with LGBTQ. It's obviously written to a queer audience and is pointing out that thinking outside the norm should be applied to all situations. It's not calling for 'Fat Pride' marches or something. The rest of your post demonising overweight people as mentally ill is extremely dehumanising and judgmental. Is doing the same about the "pro ana" movement or alcoholism also judgemental? Given that those 2 things are not at all similar to being fat, yes. The pro ana movement is the other side of the same coin. Promoting an unhealthy lifestyle that restricts calories in extremis is ok, but promoting one that consumes them in extremis is fine? Literally no one (other than 'feeders', I guess) is promoting over eating 'in extremis'. This is called a strawman. 'Fat acceptance' does not mean 'hey everyone should be as fat as possible, it's great!' It means 'let's not be jerks to overweight people'. Y'know, like labelling them mentally ill. So would you say that "labelling" anorexics as mentally ill is also wrong? Also; I clearly said "obese" and not "far people"." I've already said that the two are not the same kind of thing. Asking me in different words is not going to change my answer. | |||
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" To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. The opening post is not at all 'lumping it in' with LGBTQ. It's obviously written to a queer audience and is pointing out that thinking outside the norm should be applied to all situations. It's not calling for 'Fat Pride' marches or something. The rest of your post demonising overweight people as mentally ill is extremely dehumanising and judgmental. Is doing the same about the "pro ana" movement or alcoholism also judgemental? Given that those 2 things are not at all similar to being fat, yes. The pro ana movement is the other side of the same coin. Promoting an unhealthy lifestyle that restricts calories in extremis is ok, but promoting one that consumes them in extremis is fine? Literally no one (other than 'feeders', I guess) is promoting over eating 'in extremis'. This is called a strawman. 'Fat acceptance' does not mean 'hey everyone should be as fat as possible, it's great!' It means 'let's not be jerks to overweight people'. Y'know, like labelling them mentally ill. So would you say that "labelling" anorexics as mentally ill is also wrong? Also; I clearly said "obese" and not "far people". I've already said that the two are not the same kind of thing. Asking me in different words is not going to change my answer. " How is chronic undereating "not the same thing" as chronic overeating please (apart from the obvious difference in intake)? | |||
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"So if i feel unattractive why would anyone else think i was?" I don’t know, but they do. (Maybe that’s your point.) A lot of the time, people say it’s about confidence but, while that helps, it’s not the be all and end all. We all like different things (thank fuck!). | |||
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"She said no, didn’t she? Wanna hug?" not the hugging type. Being honest, no one has said no to me in years. You just have to learn how to ask at the right time. Just wait until they have gotten bored dating the guy with no balls for a year, then ask, bing bang bosh, they get the sex with a man they have been desperate for, and I dont get a headache pretending to care about equal pay. | |||
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"How is chronic undereating "not the same thing" as chronic overeating please (apart from the obvious difference in intake)?" You appear to be labouring under the misapprehension that chronic overeating is the only cause of being overweight. | |||
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"How is chronic undereating "not the same thing" as chronic overeating please (apart from the obvious difference in intake)? You appear to be labouring under the misapprehension that chronic overeating is the only cause of being overweight." There are very few medical conditions that cause chronic weight gain - thyroid problems are one of them. By the same ticket, chronic undereating is not the only cause of being severely underweight. People who are severely underweight due to non-mental conditions (disease etc) are generally supported in trying to return to a healthy weight. One in four people in the UK are obese (WHO, NHS). Perhaps the underweight are more strikingly obvious? | |||
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" How is chronic undereating "not the same thing" as chronic overeating please (apart from the obvious difference in intake)?" You can't just put the word 'chronic' in front of two completely different conditions and compare them without being precise as to what you're talking about. Are you comparing people who are imminent risk of death from anorexia with people who are of imminent risk of death from over eating? If so, fine. Over eating to the point of death would be considered a compulsion and a mental disorder. But you seem to want to label all people who are obese as mentally ill, even if they live completely normal and productive lives. That obesity is damaging to health does not diagnose a mental illness. Humans do many, many things that are damaging to their health. | |||
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"So if i feel unattractive why would anyone else think i was? I don’t know, but they do. (Maybe that’s your point.) A lot of the time, people say it’s about confidence but, while that helps, it’s not the be all and end all. We all like different things (thank fuck!)." Ahhh... someone that talks sense! I'm not sure it's allowed on fat / thin preference threads
I've always been chubby and I prefer chubby or bigger men.
I don't know what the reason is or do I care.
But ..... I prefer women to be slender and petite- that's what I find sexually attractive.
I definitely feel inferior to my slimmer friends.
Bummer right! | |||
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" How is chronic undereating "not the same thing" as chronic overeating please (apart from the obvious difference in intake)? You can't just put the word 'chronic' in front of two completely different conditions and compare them without being precise as to what you're talking about. Are you comparing people who are imminent risk of death from anorexia with people who are of imminent risk of death from over eating? If so, fine. Over eating to the point of death would be considered a compulsion and a mental disorder. But you seem to want to label all people who are obese as mentally ill, even if they live completely normal and productive lives. That obesity is damaging to health does not diagnose a mental illness. Humans do many, many things that are damaging to their health. " No; you can be chronically underweight without being at immediate risk of death, exactly the same as with being chronically overweight. Perhaps you need to learn the definition of "chronic" in medical terminology? Obese people by their very definition are chronically overweight. Their weight is outside the bounds of healthy, ditto those who are underweight. Yes, humans do things that are damaging to their health. Would you feel the same about smoking acceptance? | |||
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" How is chronic undereating "not the same thing" as chronic overeating please (apart from the obvious difference in intake)? You can't just put the word 'chronic' in front of two completely different conditions and compare them without being precise as to what you're talking about. Are you comparing people who are imminent risk of death from anorexia with people who are of imminent risk of death from over eating? If so, fine. Over eating to the point of death would be considered a compulsion and a mental disorder. But you seem to want to label all people who are obese as mentally ill, even if they live completely normal and productive lives. That obesity is damaging to health does not diagnose a mental illness. Humans do many, many things that are damaging to their health. No; you can be chronically underweight without being at immediate risk of death, exactly the same as with being chronically overweight. Perhaps you need to learn the definition of "chronic" in medical terminology? Obese people by their very definition are chronically overweight. Their weight is outside the bounds of healthy, ditto those who are underweight. Yes, humans do things that are damaging to their health. Would you feel the same about smoking acceptance?" Are you sure *you* understand the word chronic? It means long lasting, it's not a measure of seriousness. Seriousness relates to what the condition actually is. You can have chronic heart disease and chronic asthma, are they comparable just because chronic is in front of them? You should probably also learn about anorexia, if you think it's merely the mirror image of being obese. For one thing it often involves body dysmorphia, i.e. thinking that you are not the shape you are...you know...a mental illness. And again you are confusing 'acceptance' with 'promotion'. I already made this point but evidently you're not reading - no one is saying 'you should be fat'. They're saying 'don't bully overweight people, don't treat them as sub-human'. So to answer your question, I wouldn't want smokers to be bullied and treated as less worthy human beings. Maybe you would. This is getting way off the original OP (examining attitudes towards attraction, not whether or not overweight people are mentally ill) so I'm going to stop here (and also as you don't appear to be reading my posts, I'm sure you'll just come back with 'so are you saying it's fine to be anorexic!' or something equally facile). | |||
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" How is chronic undereating "not the same thing" as chronic overeating please (apart from the obvious difference in intake)? You can't just put the word 'chronic' in front of two completely different conditions and compare them without being precise as to what you're talking about. Are you comparing people who are imminent risk of death from anorexia with people who are of imminent risk of death from over eating? If so, fine. Over eating to the point of death would be considered a compulsion and a mental disorder. But you seem to want to label all people who are obese as mentally ill, even if they live completely normal and productive lives. That obesity is damaging to health does not diagnose a mental illness. Humans do many, many things that are damaging to their health. No; you can be chronically underweight without being at immediate risk of death, exactly the same as with being chronically overweight. Perhaps you need to learn the definition of "chronic" in medical terminology? Obese people by their very definition are chronically overweight. Their weight is outside the bounds of healthy, ditto those who are underweight. Yes, humans do things that are damaging to their health. Would you feel the same about smoking acceptance? Are you sure *you* understand the word chronic? It means long lasting, it's not a measure of seriousness. Seriousness relates to what the condition actually is. You can have chronic heart disease and chronic asthma, are they comparable just because chronic is in front of them? You should probably also learn about anorexia, if you think it's merely the mirror image of being obese. For one thing it often involves body dysmorphia, i.e. thinking that you are not the shape you are...you know...a mental illness. And again you are confusing 'acceptance' with 'promotion'. I already made this point but evidently you're not reading - no one is saying 'you should be fat'. They're saying 'don't bully overweight people, don't treat them as sub-human'. So to answer your question, I wouldn't want smokers to be bullied and treated as less worthy human beings. Maybe you would. This is getting way off the original OP (examining attitudes towards attraction, not whether or not overweight people are mentally ill) so I'm going to stop here (and also as you don't appear to be reading my posts, I'm sure you'll just come back with 'so are you saying it's fine to be anorexic!' or something equally facile)." I am reading your posts, I just think you are going out of your way to avoid acknowledging that being obese carries many health risks and is very prevalent in society. I don't think "fat acceptance" is doing anybody any good, because unlike many other "acceptance" movements, it does not encourage help and support to get healthy. I've definitley campaigned to help accept that Chrohn's and Colitis sufferers (a disease I had) should be allowed access to toilets, for example. I wouldn't be on board with "acceptance" that did not help the sufferer. I am all for supporting the overweight to get themselves in a healthy weight. | |||
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" This is getting way off the original OP (examining attitudes towards attraction, not whether or not overweight people are mentally ill) so I'm going to stop here (and also as you don't appear to be reading my posts, I'm sure you'll just come back with 'so are you saying it's fine to be anorexic!' or something equally facile). I am reading your posts, I just think you are going out of your way to avoid acknowledging that being obese carries many health risks and is very prevalent in society. I don't think "fat acceptance" is doing anybody any good, because unlike many other "acceptance" movements, it does not encourage help and support to get healthy. I've definitley campaigned to help accept that Chrohn's and Colitis sufferers (a disease I had) should be allowed access to toilets, for example. I wouldn't be on board with "acceptance" that did not help the sufferer. I am all for supporting the overweight to get themselves in a healthy weight. " Weight is in our heads, not just our bodies. I know why I am fat. I know when I can address it and when I can't. I'm alive, in part, because I accepted it was unhealthy for me to diet because it fed my depression, made me body dymorphic and obsessive and, most of all, miserable. I can't undo the messages I heard growing up, the beliefs instilled in me. I can view them in a different way now that I am an adult of considerable age and make choices about how I live my life. | |||
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"I can't post the link but look up the Harvard unconscious bias test, Project Implicit. Even when you check your biases you contact escape the societal biases that surround you and influence you too; they are so subtle and ingrained in us. We are presented with a daily diet of what beautiful and acceptable is and should be. " So they say, but my level of attractedness (if such a word exists) to a person changes, which is, coincidentally, why I always have a social meeting on Fabs - I can find someones pictures very attractive and when they open their mouth, I instantly lose interest. The opposite is true, be intellectually engaging and obviously intelligent and I become more attracted to you. I'm sure it's psychological, but it is what it is. | |||
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"It’s fascinating who is actually following the tenor of the OP and who isn’t. " | |||
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" This is getting way off the original OP (examining attitudes towards attraction, not whether or not overweight people are mentally ill) so I'm going to stop here (and also as you don't appear to be reading my posts, I'm sure you'll just come back with 'so are you saying it's fine to be anorexic!' or something equally facile). I am reading your posts, I just think you are going out of your way to avoid acknowledging that being obese carries many health risks and is very prevalent in society. I don't think "fat acceptance" is doing anybody any good, because unlike many other "acceptance" movements, it does not encourage help and support to get healthy. I've definitley campaigned to help accept that Chrohn's and Colitis sufferers (a disease I had) should be allowed access to toilets, for example. I wouldn't be on board with "acceptance" that did not help the sufferer. I am all for supporting the overweight to get themselves in a healthy weight. Weight is in our heads, not just our bodies. I know why I am fat. I know when I can address it and when I can't. I'm alive, in part, because I accepted it was unhealthy for me to diet because it fed my depression, made me body dymorphic and obsessive and, most of all, miserable. I can't undo the messages I heard growing up, the beliefs instilled in me. I can view them in a different way now that I am an adult of considerable age and make choices about how I live my life. " Yes. This is why I suggested it is mostly a mental problem. Unless you have certain conditions, the process of losing weight is very easy. People find it hard mentally, and it's easy to see why, societal influences aside, in evolutionary terms, it falls easily under optimal foraging theory - you are programmed to choose the most calorific option, and in the past, your survival depended upon it. | |||
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"All this talk of "social conditioning" always makes me curious. Who is it who is doing the conditioning and why would they want us to think slim was more attractive than not siim? I can't see that slim people are more functional to capitalism than overweight people, in fact probably the opposite. If capitalists could condition us all to think big was beautiful, they could sell more fatty foods and we would all need to buy more clothes as we kept getting bigger. So insofar as there is social conditioning, it seems to me this comes from the majority of the population themselves as it doesn't seem to me that that majority needs to be shamed if they don't find larger people attractive. By all means no one should insult or oppress people because of their size, but this assertion that you are some kind of evil fascist if you have certain physical likes and dislikes when it comes to sexual attraction seems to me profoundly oppressive. Obviously all of our sexual preferences and desires are a product of our particular place in time and space, but that doesn't make them invalid and to suggest people need some kind of Maoist re education if they don't fit some kind of political paradigm does my head in. " It’s oppressive to ask a challenging question? Right. | |||
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"I can't post the link but look up the Harvard unconscious bias test, Project Implicit. Even when you check your biases you contact escape the societal biases that surround you and influence you too; they are so subtle and ingrained in us. We are presented with a daily diet of what beautiful and acceptable is and should be. So they say, but my level of attractedness (if such a word exists) to a person changes, which is, coincidentally, why I always have a social meeting on Fabs - I can find someones pictures very attractive and when they open their mouth, I instantly lose interest. The opposite is true, be intellectually engaging and obviously intelligent and I become more attracted to you. I'm sure it's psychological, but it is what it is. " I'm the same but we both may rule out people before they get to open their mouths based on our unconscious bias. We may give more credence to some based on our bias for intellect. We're not likely to change (at our age) but the language and images used are creating the biases for our young people so checking our biases benefits those who come after us. | |||
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"I like a different spectrum of people. Dated what society class as oversized girls but I can date who I like and I don't really care what others have thought of it. If I liked a girl and got on with her I asked her out. " | |||
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"It’s fascinating who is actually following the tenor of the OP and who isn’t. "The original question was kind of dull and over-generalised. "Why do "we" not find fat people attractive?" The (very boring) answer to that is that some people do, and some people don't. Overall, people are getting fatter and the birth rate isn't taking a nosedive, so in spite of the perceived media influence against overweight people, people are clearly still sleeping with each other, which usually nescessitates some form of attraction. I picked up on some of the "hashtags" in the post about "fat acceptance" and so on. | |||
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"All this talk of "social conditioning" always makes me curious. Who is it who is doing the conditioning and why would they want us to think slim was more attractive than not siim? I can't see that slim people are more functional to capitalism than overweight people, in fact probably the opposite. If capitalists could condition us all to think big was beautiful, they could sell more fatty foods and we would all need to buy more clothes as we kept getting bigger. So insofar as there is social conditioning, it seems to me this comes from the majority of the population themselves as it doesn't seem to me that that majority needs to be shamed if they don't find larger people attractive. By all means no one should insult or oppress people because of their size, but this assertion that you are some kind of evil fascist if you have certain physical likes and dislikes when it comes to sexual attraction seems to me profoundly oppressive. Obviously all of our sexual preferences and desires are a product of our particular place in time and space, but that doesn't make them invalid and to suggest people need some kind of Maoist re education if they don't fit some kind of political paradigm does my head in. It’s oppressive to ask a challenging question? Right. "The material you originally quoted strongly suggested that it was wrong to not find larger people attractive and that people who think like that should be ashamed. Yes, that's oppressive. I am quite well aware that every sexual preference I have is a product of social conditioning. That's because everyones personality is formed by all the social influences they have been subjected to in their lives. It seems to me a bizarre idea that it's possible to float free from that and form opinions not influenced by social conditioning (of course, reading what you initially posted and changing your views to agree with it is also social conditioning). | |||
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"All this talk of "social conditioning" always makes me curious. Who is it who is doing the conditioning and why would they want us to think slim was more attractive than not siim? I can't see that slim people are more functional to capitalism than overweight people, in fact probably the opposite. If capitalists could condition us all to think big was beautiful, they could sell more fatty foods and we would all need to buy more clothes as we kept getting bigger. So insofar as there is social conditioning, it seems to me this comes from the majority of the population themselves as it doesn't seem to me that that majority needs to be shamed if they don't find larger people attractive. By all means no one should insult or oppress people because of their size, but this assertion that you are some kind of evil fascist if you have certain physical likes and dislikes when it comes to sexual attraction seems to me profoundly oppressive. Obviously all of our sexual preferences and desires are a product of our particular place in time and space, but that doesn't make them invalid and to suggest people need some kind of Maoist re education if they don't fit some kind of political paradigm does my head in. It’s oppressive to ask a challenging question? Right. "The quote in the OP reads as though it is shaming people for not being attracted to fat people. | |||
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"It’s fascinating who is actually following the tenor of the OP and who isn’t.
The original question was kind of dull and over-generalised.
"Why do "we" not find fat people attractive?"
The (very boring) answer to that is that some people do, and some people don't. Overall, people are getting fatter and the birth rate isn't taking a nosedive, so in spite of the perceived media influence against overweight people, people are clearly still sleeping with each other, which usually nescessitates some form of attraction.
I picked up on some of the "hashtags" in the post about "fat acceptance" and so on.
"I didn’t say otherwise, Jimi. | |||
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"All this talk of "social conditioning" always makes me curious. Who is it who is doing the conditioning and why would they want us to think slim was more attractive than not siim? I can't see that slim people are more functional to capitalism than overweight people, in fact probably the opposite. If capitalists could condition us all to think big was beautiful, they could sell more fatty foods and we would all need to buy more clothes as we kept getting bigger. So insofar as there is social conditioning, it seems to me this comes from the majority of the population themselves as it doesn't seem to me that that majority needs to be shamed if they don't find larger people attractive. By all means no one should insult or oppress people because of their size, but this assertion that you are some kind of evil fascist if you have certain physical likes and dislikes when it comes to sexual attraction seems to me profoundly oppressive. Obviously all of our sexual preferences and desires are a product of our particular place in time and space, but that doesn't make them invalid and to suggest people need some kind of Maoist re education if they don't fit some kind of political paradigm does my head in. " What use is an unfit revolutionary? Of course Capitalism wants us to be fat. The time in history when the working man has wrestled most change from the capitalist class is when they were most afraid of him; Post WW2, the majority of the population were fit and trained in warfare. When the war ended, the ruling classes were petrified of the proles. That, coupled with a labour shortage led to a previously unheard of level of social change. | |||
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"All this talk of "social conditioning" always makes me curious. Who is it who is doing the conditioning and why would they want us to think slim was more attractive than not siim? I can't see that slim people are more functional to capitalism than overweight people, in fact probably the opposite. If capitalists could condition us all to think big was beautiful, they could sell more fatty foods and we would all need to buy more clothes as we kept getting bigger. So insofar as there is social conditioning, it seems to me this comes from the majority of the population themselves as it doesn't seem to me that that majority needs to be shamed if they don't find larger people attractive. By all means no one should insult or oppress people because of their size, but this assertion that you are some kind of evil fascist if you have certain physical likes and dislikes when it comes to sexual attraction seems to me profoundly oppressive. Obviously all of our sexual preferences and desires are a product of our particular place in time and space, but that doesn't make them invalid and to suggest people need some kind of Maoist re education if they don't fit some kind of political paradigm does my head in. It’s oppressive to ask a challenging question? Right.
The material you originally quoted strongly suggested that it was wrong to not find larger people attractive and that people who think like that should be ashamed. Yes, that's oppressive.
I am quite well aware that every sexual preference I have is a product of social conditioning. That's because everyones personality is formed by all the social influences they have been subjected to in their lives. It seems to me a bizarre idea that it's possible to float free from that and form opinions not influenced by social conditioning (of course, reading what you initially posted and changing your views to agree with it is also social conditioning). "I’m just interested in the choice of the word oppressive. Pushing against the tide, yes. | |||
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"All this talk of "social conditioning" always makes me curious. Who is it who is doing the conditioning and why would they want us to think slim was more attractive than not siim? I can't see that slim people are more functional to capitalism than overweight people, in fact probably the opposite. If capitalists could condition us all to think big was beautiful, they could sell more fatty foods and we would all need to buy more clothes as we kept getting bigger. So insofar as there is social conditioning, it seems to me this comes from the majority of the population themselves as it doesn't seem to me that that majority needs to be shamed if they don't find larger people attractive. By all means no one should insult or oppress people because of their size, but this assertion that you are some kind of evil fascist if you have certain physical likes and dislikes when it comes to sexual attraction seems to me profoundly oppressive. Obviously all of our sexual preferences and desires are a product of our particular place in time and space, but that doesn't make them invalid and to suggest people need some kind of Maoist re education if they don't fit some kind of political paradigm does my head in. It’s oppressive to ask a challenging question? Right.
The quote in the OP reads as though it is shaming people for not being attracted to fat people. "Yes, it’s challenging. | |||
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"I'm fat, I have been most my life, I try to lose weight but find it difficult but not impossible, I could blame a medical condition but I know by large it's the choices I make, largely around exercise, but I usually eat 1200kcals a day and this does not ensure weight loss. I don't think I look quite as fat as the scales say, but this doesn't stop me getting plenty of male attention outside of swinging circles. As for my tastes, I like stocky men but not flabby men and women upto a similar size to me, but do like women to be in proportion. I do think I can be judgemental about those much larger than me, I don't like that I do, but would never voice it or show it otherwise, I think this in part stems from me seeing my flaws in others, or maybe I just use that as an excuse; I don't know. Ginger" 1200 calories a day would most definitely lead to weight loss unless you had a medical condition! I've been doing exactly that. I go over that of a weekend and still most weeks I lose weight or occasionally I've stayed the same if I've gone over during the week as well. I've been doing this for 6 months and am nearly at the 2 stone loss. I've done bugger all exercise with that although have recently started doing 3 hours of zumba a week. Losing weight isn't hard physically but it takes a lot to do it mentally. And many people fool themselves. I know I did. | |||
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"Honestly...in general (and there are exceptions), I see people, not their size. There are plenty of fat people I think are GORGEOUS! And plenty I don't....but my reason for this is never their size. I'm all for body positivity...yes being overweight CAN lead to health issues but imo that doesn't make someone less attractive or mean they should be shamed. I try to accept everyone for who they are rather than what they look like " | |||
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"I'm fat, I have been most my life, I try to lose weight but find it difficult but not impossible, I could blame a medical condition but I know by large it's the choices I make, largely around exercise, but I usually eat 1200kcals a day and this does not ensure weight loss. I don't think I look quite as fat as the scales say, but this doesn't stop me getting plenty of male attention outside of swinging circles. As for my tastes, I like stocky men but not flabby men and women upto a similar size to me, but do like women to be in proportion. I do think I can be judgemental about those much larger than me, I don't like that I do, but would never voice it or show it otherwise, I think this in part stems from me seeing my flaws in others, or maybe I just use that as an excuse; I don't know. Ginger 1200 calories a day would most definitely lead to weight loss unless you had a medical condition! I've been doing exactly that. I go over that of a weekend and still most weeks I lose weight or occasionally I've stayed the same if I've gone over during the week as well. I've been doing this for 6 months and am nearly at the 2 stone loss. I've done bugger all exercise with that although have recently started doing 3 hours of zumba a week. Losing weight isn't hard physically but it takes a lot to do it mentally. And many people fool themselves. I know I did. " I think I need less than 1200 because I don't move very fast, even when I walk. I wouldn't know how to calculate what I need, I just change what I eat and hope for the best. | |||
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"I like a different spectrum of people. Dated what society class as oversized girls but I can date who I like and I don't really care what others have thought of it. If I liked a girl and got on with her I asked her out. " Same for me, but regarding men. So long as they could still fuck me like a steam train then i was happy. If i fancy you then i fancy you, regardless of whether you’re carrying extra timber. It’s about the je ne sais quoi. Two of my biggest crushes when younger were John Candy and John Goodman in his Roseanne days. But i still wouldn’t have said no to a bit of Morten Harket or Rick Astley. | |||
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"To me 'fat' people just seem unhealthy and overall unattractive. Call it having high standards but anyone who is over average or hourglass curvy is just not attractive to me, if they catch in my site I immediately look away. Thin people can also be unhealthy... I'm not denying that. But another way of explaining it would, be that they don't care about themselves enough to better themselves. Thats a better explanation of my reasoning. I am intelligent happy caring funny and well loved by the people in my life. I am a big cuddle man and totally happy with who and what I am. How egotistical of you to think that someone who is not body thin does not care about themselves. I don't need to change who I am and don't feel the need to better myself. Fair enough, I am the slimmest out of my parents, but my mum is disabled so it's not her fault. For me its not much ego but more on the fact that when a person is overweight, they seem to have a lack of self control. If its come from muscle build then you cannot do much about that. " You seem to have a lack of self-control when it comes to talking utter shite | |||
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"All this talk of "social conditioning" always makes me curious. Who is it who is doing the conditioning and why would they want us to think slim was more attractive than not siim? I can't see that slim people are more functional to capitalism than overweight people, in fact probably the opposite. If capitalists could condition us all to think big was beautiful, they could sell more fatty foods and we would all need to buy more clothes as we kept getting bigger. So insofar as there is social conditioning, it seems to me this comes from the majority of the population themselves as it doesn't seem to me that that majority needs to be shamed if they don't find larger people attractive. By all means no one should insult or oppress people because of their size, but this assertion that you are some kind of evil fascist if you have certain physical likes and dislikes when it comes to sexual attraction seems to me profoundly oppressive. Obviously all of our sexual preferences and desires are a product of our particular place in time and space, but that doesn't make them invalid and to suggest people need some kind of Maoist re education if they don't fit some kind of political paradigm does my head in. It’s oppressive to ask a challenging question? Right.
The material you originally quoted strongly suggested that it was wrong to not find larger people attractive and that people who think like that should be ashamed. Yes, that's oppressive.
I am quite well aware that every sexual preference I have is a product of social conditioning. That's because everyones personality is formed by all the social influences they have been subjected to in their lives. It seems to me a bizarre idea that it's possible to float free from that and form opinions not influenced by social conditioning (of course, reading what you initially posted and changing your views to agree with it is also social conditioning).
I’m just interested in the choice of the word oppressive. Pushing against the tide, yes. "Insofar as its say your sexual preferences are socially determined, it's stating the bleeding obvious. Insofar as it's saying it's illegitimate to have these preferences. ("unlearn your gaze") it's insulting and oppressive. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All this talk of "social conditioning" always makes me curious. Who is it who is doing the conditioning and why would they want us to think slim was more attractive than not siim? I can't see that slim people are more functional to capitalism than overweight people, in fact probably the opposite. If capitalists could condition us all to think big was beautiful, they could sell more fatty foods and we would all need to buy more clothes as we kept getting bigger. So insofar as there is social conditioning, it seems to me this comes from the majority of the population themselves as it doesn't seem to me that that majority needs to be shamed if they don't find larger people attractive. By all means no one should insult or oppress people because of their size, but this assertion that you are some kind of evil fascist if you have certain physical likes and dislikes when it comes to sexual attraction seems to me profoundly oppressive. Obviously all of our sexual preferences and desires are a product of our particular place in time and space, but that doesn't make them invalid and to suggest people need some kind of Maoist re education if they don't fit some kind of political paradigm does my head in. It’s oppressive to ask a challenging question? Right.
The material you originally quoted strongly suggested that it was wrong to not find larger people attractive and that people who think like that should be ashamed. Yes, that's oppressive.
I am quite well aware that every sexual preference I have is a product of social conditioning. That's because everyones personality is formed by all the social influences they have been subjected to in their lives. It seems to me a bizarre idea that it's possible to float free from that and form opinions not influenced by social conditioning (of course, reading what you initially posted and changing your views to agree with it is also social conditioning).
I’m just interested in the choice of the word oppressive. Pushing against the tide, yes.
Insofar as its say your sexual preferences are socially determined, it's stating the bleeding obvious. Insofar as it's saying it's illegitimate to have these preferences. ("unlearn your gaze") it's insulting and oppressive.
"In your opinion. Thank you for that, it’s good to hear opinions. I find yours rather insulting and oppressive. But hey. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All this talk of "social conditioning" always makes me curious. Who is it who is doing the conditioning and why would they want us to think slim was more attractive than not siim? I can't see that slim people are more functional to capitalism than overweight people, in fact probably the opposite. If capitalists could condition us all to think big was beautiful, they could sell more fatty foods and we would all need to buy more clothes as we kept getting bigger. So insofar as there is social conditioning, it seems to me this comes from the majority of the population themselves as it doesn't seem to me that that majority needs to be shamed if they don't find larger people attractive. By all means no one should insult or oppress people because of their size, but this assertion that you are some kind of evil fascist if you have certain physical likes and dislikes when it comes to sexual attraction seems to me profoundly oppressive. Obviously all of our sexual preferences and desires are a product of our particular place in time and space, but that doesn't make them invalid and to suggest people need some kind of Maoist re education if they don't fit some kind of political paradigm does my head in. It’s oppressive to ask a challenging question? Right.
The material you originally quoted strongly suggested that it was wrong to not find larger people attractive and that people who think like that should be ashamed. Yes, that's oppressive.
I am quite well aware that every sexual preference I have is a product of social conditioning. That's because everyones personality is formed by all the social influences they have been subjected to in their lives. It seems to me a bizarre idea that it's possible to float free from that and form opinions not influenced by social conditioning (of course, reading what you initially posted and changing your views to agree with it is also social conditioning).
I’m just interested in the choice of the word oppressive. Pushing against the tide, yes.
Insofar as its say your sexual preferences are socially determined, it's stating the bleeding obvious. Insofar as it's saying it's illegitimate to have these preferences. ("unlearn your gaze") it's insulting and oppressive.
"No ! Don't you DARE to speak sense. Unlearn your gaze and love the fat folk. Unlearn your gaze and love the person of your own gender. Unlearn your gaze and just buy FIDO an extra tin of chunkies...... So pseudo. | |||
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"I'm fat, I have been most my life, I try to lose weight but find it difficult but not impossible, I could blame a medical condition but I know by large it's the choices I make, largely around exercise, but I usually eat 1200kcals a day and this does not ensure weight loss. I don't think I look quite as fat as the scales say, but this doesn't stop me getting plenty of male attention outside of swinging circles. As for my tastes, I like stocky men but not flabby men and women upto a similar size to me, but do like women to be in proportion. I do think I can be judgemental about those much larger than me, I don't like that I do, but would never voice it or show it otherwise, I think this in part stems from me seeing my flaws in others, or maybe I just use that as an excuse; I don't know. Ginger 1200 calories a day would most definitely lead to weight loss unless you had a medical condition! I've been doing exactly that. I go over that of a weekend and still most weeks I lose weight or occasionally I've stayed the same if I've gone over during the week as well. I've been doing this for 6 months and am nearly at the 2 stone loss. I've done bugger all exercise with that although have recently started doing 3 hours of zumba a week. Losing weight isn't hard physically but it takes a lot to do it mentally. And many people fool themselves. I know I did. " I have PCOS, which does make it harder to lose weight, I keep track religiously of what I eat and average 1200kcals most days, with this I maintain, any more leads to weight gain. I know I need to up the exercise or cut carbs completely to lose weight, that's all I've found works for me, finding time for more exercise is my biggest challenge, but like I said I could blame the PCOS but I know I just need to try harder. Ginger | |||
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"All this talk of "social conditioning" always makes me curious. Who is it who is doing the conditioning and why would they want us to think slim was more attractive than not siim? I can't see that slim people are more functional to capitalism than overweight people, in fact probably the opposite. If capitalists could condition us all to think big was beautiful, they could sell more fatty foods and we would all need to buy more clothes as we kept getting bigger. So insofar as there is social conditioning, it seems to me this comes from the majority of the population themselves as it doesn't seem to me that that majority needs to be shamed if they don't find larger people attractive. By all means no one should insult or oppress people because of their size, but this assertion that you are some kind of evil fascist if you have certain physical likes and dislikes when it comes to sexual attraction seems to me profoundly oppressive. Obviously all of our sexual preferences and desires are a product of our particular place in time and space, but that doesn't make them invalid and to suggest people need some kind of Maoist re education if they don't fit some kind of political paradigm does my head in. It’s oppressive to ask a challenging question? Right.
The material you originally quoted strongly suggested that it was wrong to not find larger people attractive and that people who think like that should be ashamed. Yes, that's oppressive.
I am quite well aware that every sexual preference I have is a product of social conditioning. That's because everyones personality is formed by all the social influences they have been subjected to in their lives. It seems to me a bizarre idea that it's possible to float free from that and form opinions not influenced by social conditioning (of course, reading what you initially posted and changing your views to agree with it is also social conditioning).
I’m just interested in the choice of the word oppressive. Pushing against the tide, yes.
Insofar as its say your sexual preferences are socially determined, it's stating the bleeding obvious. Insofar as it's saying it's illegitimate to have these preferences. ("unlearn your gaze") it's insulting and oppressive.
In your opinion. Thank you for that, it’s good to hear opinions. I find yours rather insulting and oppressive. But hey."The Opinion if the OP was much more insulting and oppressive - suggesting that we change something as personal as who we find attractive based on their own agenda. You know what they say happens when you scratch a liberal...... | |||
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"All this talk of "social conditioning" always makes me curious. Who is it who is doing the conditioning and why would they want us to think slim was more attractive than not siim? I can't see that slim people are more functional to capitalism than overweight people, in fact probably the opposite. If capitalists could condition us all to think big was beautiful, they could sell more fatty foods and we would all need to buy more clothes as we kept getting bigger. So insofar as there is social conditioning, it seems to me this comes from the majority of the population themselves as it doesn't seem to me that that majority needs to be shamed if they don't find larger people attractive. By all means no one should insult or oppress people because of their size, but this assertion that you are some kind of evil fascist if you have certain physical likes and dislikes when it comes to sexual attraction seems to me profoundly oppressive. Obviously all of our sexual preferences and desires are a product of our particular place in time and space, but that doesn't make them invalid and to suggest people need some kind of Maoist re education if they don't fit some kind of political paradigm does my head in. It’s oppressive to ask a challenging question? Right.
The material you originally quoted strongly suggested that it was wrong to not find larger people attractive and that people who think like that should be ashamed. Yes, that's oppressive.
I am quite well aware that every sexual preference I have is a product of social conditioning. That's because everyones personality is formed by all the social influences they have been subjected to in their lives. It seems to me a bizarre idea that it's possible to float free from that and form opinions not influenced by social conditioning (of course, reading what you initially posted and changing your views to agree with it is also social conditioning).
I’m just interested in the choice of the word oppressive. Pushing against the tide, yes.
Insofar as its say your sexual preferences are socially determined, it's stating the bleeding obvious. Insofar as it's saying it's illegitimate to have these preferences. ("unlearn your gaze") it's insulting and oppressive.
In your opinion. Thank you for that, it’s good to hear opinions. I find yours rather insulting and oppressive. But hey."I'm quite happy for people to have whatever (socially determined) sexual preferences they like. That seems to me somewhat less oppressive than essentially guilt tripping people because they don't find certain physicalities attractive. | |||
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"All this talk of "social conditioning" always makes me curious. Who is it who is doing the conditioning and why would they want us to think slim was more attractive than not siim? I can't see that slim people are more functional to capitalism than overweight people, in fact probably the opposite. If capitalists could condition us all to think big was beautiful, they could sell more fatty foods and we would all need to buy more clothes as we kept getting bigger. So insofar as there is social conditioning, it seems to me this comes from the majority of the population themselves as it doesn't seem to me that that majority needs to be shamed if they don't find larger people attractive. By all means no one should insult or oppress people because of their size, but this assertion that you are some kind of evil fascist if you have certain physical likes and dislikes when it comes to sexual attraction seems to me profoundly oppressive. Obviously all of our sexual preferences and desires are a product of our particular place in time and space, but that doesn't make them invalid and to suggest people need some kind of Maoist re education if they don't fit some kind of political paradigm does my head in. It’s oppressive to ask a challenging question? Right.
The material you originally quoted strongly suggested that it was wrong to not find larger people attractive and that people who think like that should be ashamed. Yes, that's oppressive.
I am quite well aware that every sexual preference I have is a product of social conditioning. That's because everyones personality is formed by all the social influences they have been subjected to in their lives. It seems to me a bizarre idea that it's possible to float free from that and form opinions not influenced by social conditioning (of course, reading what you initially posted and changing your views to agree with it is also social conditioning).
I’m just interested in the choice of the word oppressive. Pushing against the tide, yes.
Insofar as its say your sexual preferences are socially determined, it's stating the bleeding obvious. Insofar as it's saying it's illegitimate to have these preferences. ("unlearn your gaze") it's insulting and oppressive.
In your opinion. Thank you for that, it’s good to hear opinions. I find yours rather insulting and oppressive. But hey.
The Opinion if the OP was much more insulting and oppressive - suggesting that we change something as personal as who we find attractive based on their own agenda.
You know what they say happens when you scratch a liberal......"It’s certainly challenged, yes. And got a reaction. | |||
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"I think we are conditioned to find certain types attractive but health does play a part in that. We want the fittest to father our offspring for greater chance of survival don't we? " Funny isn't it but I find it all very contextual. We seek the fittest to give our offspring the best of chances I agree with in a more 'natural' circumstance. We are so far altered in what we perceive as alpha..... would we just want to hump the bloke that makes everyone laugh at a party by blowing up condoms and fucking everything in sight. How ( these days ) do we discern good stock ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All this talk of "social conditioning" always makes me curious. Who is it who is doing the conditioning and why would they want us to think slim was more attractive than not siim? I can't see that slim people are more functional to capitalism than overweight people, in fact probably the opposite. If capitalists could condition us all to think big was beautiful, they could sell more fatty foods and we would all need to buy more clothes as we kept getting bigger. So insofar as there is social conditioning, it seems to me this comes from the majority of the population themselves as it doesn't seem to me that that majority needs to be shamed if they don't find larger people attractive. By all means no one should insult or oppress people because of their size, but this assertion that you are some kind of evil fascist if you have certain physical likes and dislikes when it comes to sexual attraction seems to me profoundly oppressive. Obviously all of our sexual preferences and desires are a product of our particular place in time and space, but that doesn't make them invalid and to suggest people need some kind of Maoist re education if they don't fit some kind of political paradigm does my head in. It’s oppressive to ask a challenging question? Right.
The material you originally quoted strongly suggested that it was wrong to not find larger people attractive and that people who think like that should be ashamed. Yes, that's oppressive.
I am quite well aware that every sexual preference I have is a product of social conditioning. That's because everyones personality is formed by all the social influences they have been subjected to in their lives. It seems to me a bizarre idea that it's possible to float free from that and form opinions not influenced by social conditioning (of course, reading what you initially posted and changing your views to agree with it is also social conditioning).
I’m just interested in the choice of the word oppressive. Pushing against the tide, yes.
Insofar as its say your sexual preferences are socially determined, it's stating the bleeding obvious. Insofar as it's saying it's illegitimate to have these preferences. ("unlearn your gaze") it's insulting and oppressive.
In your opinion. Thank you for that, it’s good to hear opinions. I find yours rather insulting and oppressive. But hey.
The Opinion if the OP was much more insulting and oppressive - suggesting that we change something as personal as who we find attractive based on their own agenda.
You know what they say happens when you scratch a liberal......
It’s certainly challenged, yes. And got a reaction. "Well, if you agree with it, it certainly exposes you as one of those who support the notion of a thought-crime. | |||
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"I think we are conditioned to find certain types attractive but health does play a part in that. We want the fittest to father our offspring for greater chance of survival don't we? Funny isn't it but I find it all very contextual. We seek the fittest to give our offspring the best of chances I agree with in a more 'natural' circumstance. We are so far altered in what we perceive as alpha..... would we just want to hump the bloke that makes everyone laugh at a party by blowing up condoms and fucking everything in sight. How ( these days ) do we discern good stock ?" This is a good question... but anyone blowing up condoms at a party isn't the type of guy I'd want to father my children | |||
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"All this talk of "social conditioning" always makes me curious. Who is it who is doing the conditioning and why would they want us to think slim was more attractive than not siim? I can't see that slim people are more functional to capitalism than overweight people, in fact probably the opposite. If capitalists could condition us all to think big was beautiful, they could sell more fatty foods and we would all need to buy more clothes as we kept getting bigger. So insofar as there is social conditioning, it seems to me this comes from the majority of the population themselves as it doesn't seem to me that that majority needs to be shamed if they don't find larger people attractive. By all means no one should insult or oppress people because of their size, but this assertion that you are some kind of evil fascist if you have certain physical likes and dislikes when it comes to sexual attraction seems to me profoundly oppressive. Obviously all of our sexual preferences and desires are a product of our particular place in time and space, but that doesn't make them invalid and to suggest people need some kind of Maoist re education if they don't fit some kind of political paradigm does my head in. It’s oppressive to ask a challenging question? Right.
The material you originally quoted strongly suggested that it was wrong to not find larger people attractive and that people who think like that should be ashamed. Yes, that's oppressive.
I am quite well aware that every sexual preference I have is a product of social conditioning. That's because everyones personality is formed by all the social influences they have been subjected to in their lives. It seems to me a bizarre idea that it's possible to float free from that and form opinions not influenced by social conditioning (of course, reading what you initially posted and changing your views to agree with it is also social conditioning).
I’m just interested in the choice of the word oppressive. Pushing against the tide, yes.
Insofar as its say your sexual preferences are socially determined, it's stating the bleeding obvious. Insofar as it's saying it's illegitimate to have these preferences. ("unlearn your gaze") it's insulting and oppressive.
In your opinion. Thank you for that, it’s good to hear opinions. I find yours rather insulting and oppressive. But hey.
I'm quite happy for people to have whatever (socially determined) sexual preferences they like. That seems to me somewhat less oppressive than essentially guilt tripping people because they don't find certain physicalities attractive. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All this talk of "social conditioning" always makes me curious. Who is it who is doing the conditioning and why would they want us to think slim was more attractive than not siim? I can't see that slim people are more functional to capitalism than overweight people, in fact probably the opposite. If capitalists could condition us all to think big was beautiful, they could sell more fatty foods and we would all need to buy more clothes as we kept getting bigger. So insofar as there is social conditioning, it seems to me this comes from the majority of the population themselves as it doesn't seem to me that that majority needs to be shamed if they don't find larger people attractive. By all means no one should insult or oppress people because of their size, but this assertion that you are some kind of evil fascist if you have certain physical likes and dislikes when it comes to sexual attraction seems to me profoundly oppressive. Obviously all of our sexual preferences and desires are a product of our particular place in time and space, but that doesn't make them invalid and to suggest people need some kind of Maoist re education if they don't fit some kind of political paradigm does my head in. It’s oppressive to ask a challenging question? Right.
The material you originally quoted strongly suggested that it was wrong to not find larger people attractive and that people who think like that should be ashamed. Yes, that's oppressive.
I am quite well aware that every sexual preference I have is a product of social conditioning. That's because everyones personality is formed by all the social influences they have been subjected to in their lives. It seems to me a bizarre idea that it's possible to float free from that and form opinions not influenced by social conditioning (of course, reading what you initially posted and changing your views to agree with it is also social conditioning).
I’m just interested in the choice of the word oppressive. Pushing against the tide, yes.
Insofar as its say your sexual preferences are socially determined, it's stating the bleeding obvious. Insofar as it's saying it's illegitimate to have these preferences. ("unlearn your gaze") it's insulting and oppressive.
In your opinion. Thank you for that, it’s good to hear opinions. I find yours rather insulting and oppressive. But hey.
The Opinion if the OP was much more insulting and oppressive - suggesting that we change something as personal as who we find attractive based on their own agenda.
You know what they say happens when you scratch a liberal......
It’s certainly challenged, yes. And got a reaction.
Well, if you agree with it, it certainly exposes you as one of those who support the notion of a thought-crime.
"Oh sheesh! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think we are conditioned to find certain types attractive but health does play a part in that. We want the fittest to father our offspring for greater chance of survival don't we? Funny isn't it but I find it all very contextual. We seek the fittest to give our offspring the best of chances I agree with in a more 'natural' circumstance. We are so far altered in what we perceive as alpha..... would we just want to hump the bloke that makes everyone laugh at a party by blowing up condoms and fucking everything in sight. How ( these days ) do we discern good stock ? This is a good question... but anyone blowing up condoms at a party isn't the type of guy I'd want to father my children "Well okay. You deceive him a take contraceptives whilst laughing at his antics and basking in his dubious glory. What then | |||
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"It’s fascinating who is actually following the tenor of the OP and who isn’t. "Apologies. JimiUK’s myopia is distracting. . To get back to the OP, then. Yes, our preferences are not just a series of internal yes/no switches set from birth. I believe that, much in the same way as our parents, or our upbringing, or significant (at times traumatic) incidents in our lives can have an impact on our sexuality (and, as a result, what we are attracted to), it would also possible to condition yourself to like other things. . An example of this happening is in the effects of the availability of free streamed pornography on the internet. In Jon Ronson’s podcast ‘The Butterfly Effect’, he reported that, since the arrival of PornHub, RedTube etc, erectile dysfunction in 16-24 year olds has risen 1000%. Why? Because young men are conditioning themselves to be turned on /only/ by a specific, unrealistic version of sex. . Now, obviously that’s a negative impact. But, there’s an argument that it could be used positively. If, rather than just looking st their favourite keywords, people pushed those boundaries, I think they’d condition themselves to be attracted by a wider variety of body types. . That takes us to a question suggested in the OP, though. Simply not fat-shaming is possibly not enough, but is there a line? If they can, should people condition themselves to be attracted to those who are so far, they are bed-bound? Probably not. Given the bell curve of body-types, it’s probably not necessary, regardless of whether or not it’s ‘right’. . I’ll end by going back to one of the first questions in the OP; what am I doing to change my gaze? Not a vast amount, to be honest. I’m happy with how broad my tastes are. Equally, I’m not opposed to establishing exactly what my limits are. Membership here might be part of that. Without going into any unnecessary detail, I’ve already tried one new thing that, while is no big deal to many, was the first time I’d done it in my 39 years, and I’ve found a new thing to enjoy. . I just won’t be tugging at the little-Oatcake to the sight of Gilbert Grape’s mother quite yet, thanks.  | |||
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"Unless you have certain conditions, the process of losing weight is very easy." You don’t know what you’re talking about. Are you familiar with the everyday phenomenon of people who can eat what they want, and never gain weight? While others count every calorie and scrimp and cut back and can’t shift it? . It’s becsuse the bacteria in your gut is largely responsible for how your body processes food, and we’ve all got a different cocktail of bacteria. Wildly different. The reason some people can eat what they want is because they have high proportions of certain specific strains of bacteria, which is entirely absent in many others. There’s a reason many people find it harder, and it’s not a lack of motivation. . So, please, until you know what your talking about, please give up this nonsense. | |||
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"It’s fascinating who is actually following the tenor of the OP and who isn’t. Apologies. JimiUK’s myopia is distracting.
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To get back to the OP, then. Yes, our preferences are not just a series of internal yes/no switches set from birth. I believe that, much in the same way as our parents, or our upbringing, or significant (at times traumatic) incidents in our lives can have an impact on our sexuality (and, as a result, what we are attracted to), it would also possible to condition yourself to like other things.
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An example of this happening is in the effects of the availability of free streamed pornography on the internet. In Jon Ronson’s podcast ‘The Butterfly Effect’, he reported that, since the arrival of PornHub, RedTube etc, erectile dysfunction in 16-24 year olds has risen 1000%. Why? Because young men are conditioning themselves to be turned on /only/ by a specific, unrealistic version of sex.
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Now, obviously that’s a negative impact. But, there’s an argument that it could be used positively. If, rather than just looking st their favourite keywords, people pushed those boundaries, I think they’d condition themselves to be attracted by a wider variety of body types.
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That takes us to a question suggested in the OP, though. Simply not fat-shaming is possibly not enough, but is there a line? If they can, should people condition themselves to be attracted to those who are so far, they are bed-bound? Probably not. Given the bell curve of body-types, it’s probably not necessary, regardless of whether or not it’s ‘right’.
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I’ll end by going back to one of the first questions in the OP; what am I doing to change my gaze? Not a vast amount, to be honest. I’m happy with how broad my tastes are. Equally, I’m not opposed to establishing exactly what my limits are. Membership here might be part of that. Without going into any unnecessary detail, I’ve already tried one new thing that, while is no big deal to many, was the first time I’d done it in my 39 years, and I’ve found a new thing to enjoy.
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I just won’t be tugging at the little-Oatcake to the sight of Gilbert Grape’s mother quite yet, thanks."Yes | |||
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"Enjoyed this thread more than question time...... " | |||
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"I think we are conditioned to find certain types attractive but health does play a part in that. We want the fittest to father our offspring for greater chance of survival don't we? Funny isn't it but I find it all very contextual. We seek the fittest to give our offspring the best of chances I agree with in a more 'natural' circumstance. We are so far altered in what we perceive as alpha..... would we just want to hump the bloke that makes everyone laugh at a party by blowing up condoms and fucking everything in sight. How ( these days ) do we discern good stock ?" Research suggests women find different traits in men attractive depending on the stage of their fertility cycle. When women are ovulating they choose men with more typically 'masculine' features. Square jaw, deep voice, leaner, v shaped body and displaying more aggressive and dominant personality. A type perceived more able to impregnate them, the assumption being that testosterone affects their features and will in turn mean stronger genes for reproduction. When not ovulating, woman more often choose less masculine characteristics, softer features, less defined bodies, lower voices and gentler manner. The assumption being that these men will be better suited to caregiving and raising and supporting a family. Think there are similar biological arguments for females, that men are drawn to wider hips that predict easy childbearing? Not so sure on that research. It is all really interesting though and points to a more genetic model for attraction than social. Me I dont have a type at all, personality always wins for me. And not offended if someone does not find me attractive due to my size. As long as they are not a cunt about it! | |||
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"Blimey OP what have you been drinking? Everybody's beautiful in their own way as the song says. But I am still choosing who gets my pants off "Water. You? | |||
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"Blimey OP what have you been drinking? Everybody's beautiful in their own way as the song says. But I am still choosing who gets my pants off
Water. You?"Mostly coffee, just having a single vodka and tonic before bed... lovely sentiment in the opening post, but not realistic. | |||
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" To try and lump it in with LGBTQ+ movements is to insult all those people, because you do not choose to be any of those things. The opening post is not at all 'lumping it in' with LGBTQ. It's obviously written to a queer audience and is pointing out that thinking outside the norm should be applied to all situations. It's not calling for 'Fat Pride' marches or something The rest of your post demonising overweight people as mentally ill is extremely dehumanising and judgmental. Is doing the same about the "pro ana" movement or alcoholism also judgemental? Given that those 2 things are not at all similar to being fat, yes. The pro ana movement is the other side of the same coin. Promoting an unhealthy lifestyle that restricts calories in extremis is ok, but promoting one that consumes them in extremis is fine? Literally no one (other than 'feeders', I guess) is promoting over eating 'in extremis'. This is called a strawman. 'Fat acceptance' does not mean 'hey everyone should be as fat as possible, it's great!' It means 'let's not be jerks to overweight people'. Y'know, like labelling them mentally ill. So would you say that "labelling" anorexics as mentally ill is also wrong? Also; I clearly said "obese" and not "far people". Not all people whom are obese have mental illness. There are many reasons why people get to the stage of being obese. Agreed some have food addiction and other mental health issues. Some don't." surely food addiction is a mental health problem as are other addictions | |||
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"Most people preferences in my opinion come from the media, we have it drummed into us from an early age what is beautiful and sexy, this is for men and women. I used to only go for slim women in clubs and pubs but as I have got older I find women with curves more attractive, is this because of the media again or is it the natural instinct we all have to find a curvy women to have children with. Women have the natural instinct to find strong hunter gather type men, broad and strong looking bodies. Do fat men/women attract partners as easily as thin strong looking types. We all like beautiful things, the only thing that matters is if your happy with who you are and who you are with, the rest is superficial." This "its the media" is something else that does my head in. The primary aim of the media is to make money. They are not going to make money if they routinely insult their potential customers. . Most of their potential customers are not gym fit. Hence the only reason they would promote people being gym fit is because thats what most of their customers would like to b e or fine aesthetically pleasing. You have cause and effect the wrong way round. | |||
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"I had a body of a "fat" size and decided instead not to be fat and to save myself from a higher risk of disease, and to give a healthy body image to my child. It's patronising in the extreme to say that is was societal norms that made me change - it was a knowledge of the risks to my health of being overweight. Obesity is a disease like any other and people who have it should be helped to change. Should we start alcoholic acceptance as well?" This is over-simplifying it massively. The hatred that obese people deal with is in another league to other addictions. | |||
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"I had a body of a "fat" size and decided instead not to be fat and to save myself from a higher risk of disease, and to give a healthy body image to my child. It's patronising in the extreme to say that is was societal norms that made me change - it was a knowledge of the risks to my health of being overweight. Obesity is a disease like any other and people who have it should be helped to change. Should we start alcoholic acceptance as well? This is over-simplifying it massively. The hatred that obese people deal with is in another league to other addictions. " I agree with this. If you walked into a Dr’s office and stated you were addicted to drugs, alcohol whatever, then they would bend over backwards to help you. You just have to open the door of a Dr’s office as an obese person and they have already made their mind up that you are a lazy greedy person who has no self control and is wasting their time. You are treated with rudeness and are treated in an off hand manner. If you enquire about help with your weight you get told to lose a stone first and then go back. A stone!! If obese people could easily lose a stone they’d not have gotten to be obese!! So many overweight people are treated as if they just sit and gorge and do fuck all. This is so far from the truth for so many, yet we are treated with disdain, rudeness, and this is when we are reaching out for help. | |||
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"I’m not going to read the entire thread, because it’s something very close to my heart, and I know that ultimately, there will be comments that’ll upset me. I’ve struggled with my weight for a long time. Sometimes I’m in control, sometimes I’m not. I eat when I’m upset, and my weight has come and gone when various things have happened. Being obese/overweight doesn’t always equal being lazy or not caring about yourself. They’re ingrained habits, eating as a coping mechanism is something you get stuck in for years and years, and that first push to get out can be one of the hardest things you do. " I understand entirely about the interactions between weight gain and psychological problems. I have had similar issues myself. I fully appreciate its a lot more complex than fat people being lazy. However, the point I took issue with was the suggestion that there was some political or moral obligation for people who don't find overweight people attractive to do so. . That, for me, strikes at the heart of personal sexual autonomy which I believe is fundamental. | |||
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"I just like people that aren't dicks and they come in all sizes" | |||
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"I like a different spectrum of people. Dated what society class as oversized girls but I can date who I like and I don't really care what others have thought of it. If I liked a girl and got on with her I asked her out. Same for me, but regarding men. So long as they could still fuck me like a steam train then i was happy. If i fancy you then i fancy you, regardless of whether you’re carrying extra timber. It’s about the je ne sais quoi. Two of my biggest crushes when younger were John Candy and John Goodman in his Roseanne days. But i still wouldn’t have said no to a bit of Morten Harket or Rick Astley. " I got a lot of stick off some supposedly close friends for my choice of girlfriend when younger. Two girls I can think of were taller and larger than me. I had some of my most fun both in and out of the bedroom with these two girls. We got some very funny looks and a good few nasty comments when out together. Lost a few friends over it but better off without that type of friend. Unfortunately both girls moved away and lost contact with them. | |||
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"Took me a while to like who i am. Sometimes im heaver sometimes im lighter Ive learnt to love me. Accept me and if i like someone so be it Not sizest" well said | |||
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"Took me a while to like who i am. Sometimes im heaver sometimes im lighter Ive learnt to love me. Accept me and if i like someone so be it Not sizest well said "Took me years to accept me | |||
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"Took me a while to like who i am. Sometimes im heaver sometimes im lighter Ive learnt to love me. Accept me and if i like someone so be it Not sizest" I see you don't meet smokers or drug users. People may smoke or use drugs for all sorts of complex psychological reasons. Isn't excluding them on the basis of a single characteristic which may not be their fault exactly the same as excluding overweight people for a single characteristic that may not be their fault? | |||
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"Took me a while to like who i am. Sometimes im heaver sometimes im lighter Ive learnt to love me. Accept me and if i like someone so be it Not sizest I see you don't meet smokers or drug users. People may smoke or use drugs for all sorts of complex psychological reasons. Isn't excluding them on the basis of a single characteristic which may not be their fault exactly the same as excluding overweight people for a single characteristic that may not be their fault? " Smoking and taking drugs not their fault hmmm They choose to smoke or try drugs | |||
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"Took me a while to like who i am. Sometimes im heaver sometimes im lighter Ive learnt to love me. Accept me and if i like someone so be it Not sizest I see you don't meet smokers or drug users. People may smoke or use drugs for all sorts of complex psychological reasons. Isn't excluding them on the basis of a single characteristic which may not be their fault exactly the same as excluding overweight people for a single characteristic that may not be their fault? Smoking and taking drugs not their fault hmmm They choose to smoke or try drugs " People choose to eat and get fat. All often have complex psychological roots. I don't see the difference. | |||
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"I’m not going to read the entire thread, because it’s something very close to my heart, and I know that ultimately, there will be comments that’ll upset me. I’ve struggled with my weight for a long time. Sometimes I’m in control, sometimes I’m not. I eat when I’m upset, and my weight has come and gone when various things have happened. Being obese/overweight doesn’t always equal being lazy or not caring about yourself. They’re ingrained habits, eating as a coping mechanism is something you get stuck in for years and years, and that first push to get out can be one of the hardest things you do. I understand entirely about the interactions between weight gain and psychological problems. I have had similar issues myself. I fully appreciate its a lot more complex than fat people being lazy. However, the point I took issue with was the suggestion that there was some political or moral obligation for people who don't find overweight people attractive to do so. . That, for me, strikes at the heart of personal sexual autonomy which I believe is fundamental. " I agree. I suppose the overall point of this thread is trying to determine if we’ve been conditioned to have those preferences in the first place. | |||
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"Took me a while to like who i am. Sometimes im heaver sometimes im lighter Ive learnt to love me. Accept me and if i like someone so be it Not sizest I see you don't meet smokers or drug users. People may smoke or use drugs for all sorts of complex psychological reasons. Isn't excluding them on the basis of a single characteristic which may not be their fault exactly the same as excluding overweight people for a single characteristic that may not be their fault? Smoking and taking drugs not their fault hmmm They choose to smoke or try drugs People choose to eat and get fat. All often have complex psychological roots. I don't see the difference. " this thread is nothing to do with drugs/smoking | |||
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"Took me a while to like who i am. Sometimes im heaver sometimes im lighter Ive learnt to love me. Accept me and if i like someone so be it Not sizest I see you don't meet smokers or drug users. People may smoke or use drugs for all sorts of complex psychological reasons. Isn't excluding them on the basis of a single characteristic which may not be their fault exactly the same as excluding overweight people for a single characteristic that may not be their fault? Smoking and taking drugs not their fault hmmm They choose to smoke or try drugs People choose to eat and get fat. All often have complex psychological roots. I don't see the difference. " Thats the point. I have been between size 14/20 all teen,adult my life and its my choice im fat but the difference is i know that. Smokers smell and sometimes it taints skin and if you suck cock. It can taste of it. (Not all can i state) Drug users if they want to do it, fine just i wont meet them and other personal reasons. | |||
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"Took me a while to like who i am. Sometimes im heaver sometimes im lighter Ive learnt to love me. Accept me and if i like someone so be it Not sizest I see you don't meet smokers or drug users. People may smoke or use drugs for all sorts of complex psychological reasons. Isn't excluding them on the basis of a single characteristic which may not be their fault exactly the same as excluding overweight people for a single characteristic that may not be their fault? Smoking and taking drugs not their fault hmmm They choose to smoke or try drugs People choose to eat and get fat. All often have complex psychological roots. I don't see the difference. this thread is nothing to do with drugs/smoking" Thanks x | |||
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"I’m not going to read the entire thread, because it’s something very close to my heart, and I know that ultimately, there will be comments that’ll upset me. I’ve struggled with my weight for a long time. Sometimes I’m in control, sometimes I’m not. I eat when I’m upset, and my weight has come and gone when various things have happened. Being obese/overweight doesn’t always equal being lazy or not caring about yourself. They’re ingrained habits, eating as a coping mechanism is something you get stuck in for years and years, and that first push to get out can be one of the hardest things you do. I understand entirely about the interactions between weight gain and psychological problems. I have had similar issues myself. I fully appreciate its a lot more complex than fat people being lazy. However, the point I took issue with was the suggestion that there was some political or moral obligation for people who don't find overweight people attractive to do so. . That, for me, strikes at the heart of personal sexual autonomy which I believe is fundamental. I agree. I suppose the overall point of this thread is trying to determine if we’ve been conditioned to have those preferences in the first place." All our preferences are conditioned in the sense that they are a product of the influences we have been subjected to throughout our lives. The fact that you don't want to go around dressed in a burka. (I assume) is the product of social conditioning. Hence the conditioning point is a bit of a red herring. | |||
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"Took me a while to like who i am. Sometimes im heaver sometimes im lighter Ive learnt to love me. Accept me and if i like someone so be it Not sizest I see you don't meet smokers or drug users. People may smoke or use drugs for all sorts of complex psychological reasons. Isn't excluding them on the basis of a single characteristic which may not be their fault exactly the same as excluding overweight people for a single characteristic that may not be their fault? Smoking and taking drugs not their fault hmmm They choose to smoke or try drugs People choose to eat and get fat. All often have complex psychological roots. I don't see the difference. this thread is nothing to do with drugs/smoking Thanks x" your most welcome x | |||
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"Took me a while to like who i am. Sometimes im heaver sometimes im lighter Ive learnt to love me. Accept me and if i like someone so be it Not sizest I see you don't meet smokers or drug users. People may smoke or use drugs for all sorts of complex psychological reasons. Isn't excluding them on the basis of a single characteristic which may not be their fault exactly the same as excluding overweight people for a single characteristic that may not be their fault? Smoking and taking drugs not their fault hmmm They choose to smoke or try drugs People choose to eat and get fat. All often have complex psychological roots. I don't see the difference. Thats the point. I have been between size 14/20 all teen,adult my life and its my choice im fat but the difference is i know that. Smokers smell and sometimes it taints skin and if you suck cock. It can taste of it. (Not all can i state) Drug users if they want to do it, fine just i wont meet them and other personal reasons. " That's my point. You are fully entitled not to want to meet smokers or drug users, just as others are fully entitled to not want to meet overweight people. No one should be shamed about that. | |||
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"Took me a while to like who i am. Sometimes im heaver sometimes im lighter Ive learnt to love me. Accept me and if i like someone so be it Not sizest I see you don't meet smokers or drug users. People may smoke or use drugs for all sorts of complex psychological reasons. Isn't excluding them on the basis of a single characteristic which may not be their fault exactly the same as excluding overweight people for a single characteristic that may not be their fault? Smoking and taking drugs not their fault hmmm They choose to smoke or try drugs People choose to eat and get fat. All often have complex psychological roots. I don't see the difference. Thats the point. I have been between size 14/20 all teen,adult my life and its my choice im fat but the difference is i know that. Smokers smell and sometimes it taints skin and if you suck cock. It can taste of it. (Not all can i state) Drug users if they want to do it, fine just i wont meet them and other personal reasons. That's my point. You are fully entitled not to want to meet smokers or drug users, just as others are fully entitled to not want to meet overweight people. No one should be shamed about that. " Excatly I dont shame people, | |||
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"Took me a while to like who i am. Sometimes im heaver sometimes im lighter Ive learnt to love me. Accept me and if i like someone so be it Not sizest I see you don't meet smokers or drug users. People may smoke or use drugs for all sorts of complex psychological reasons. Isn't excluding them on the basis of a single characteristic which may not be their fault exactly the same as excluding overweight people for a single characteristic that may not be their fault? Smoking and taking drugs not their fault hmmm They choose to smoke or try drugs People choose to eat and get fat. All often have complex psychological roots. I don't see the difference. Thats the point. I have been between size 14/20 all teen,adult my life and its my choice im fat but the difference is i know that. Smokers smell and sometimes it taints skin and if you suck cock. It can taste of it. (Not all can i state) Drug users if they want to do it, fine just i wont meet them and other personal reasons. That's my point. You are fully entitled not to want to meet smokers or drug users, just as others are fully entitled to not want to meet overweight people. No one should be shamed about that. Excatly I dont shame people, " The start of this thread does precisely that about people who don't find overnight people attractive. | |||
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"Took me a while to like who i am. Sometimes im heaver sometimes im lighter Ive learnt to love me. Accept me and if i like someone so be it Not sizest I see you don't meet smokers or drug users. People may smoke or use drugs for all sorts of complex psychological reasons. Isn't excluding them on the basis of a single characteristic which may not be their fault exactly the same as excluding overweight people for a single characteristic that may not be their fault? Smoking and taking drugs not their fault hmmm They choose to smoke or try drugs People choose to eat and get fat. All often have complex psychological roots. I don't see the difference. Thats the point. I have been between size 14/20 all teen,adult my life and its my choice im fat but the difference is i know that. Smokers smell and sometimes it taints skin and if you suck cock. It can taste of it. (Not all can i state) Drug users if they want to do it, fine just i wont meet them and other personal reasons. That's my point. You are fully entitled not to want to meet smokers or drug users, just as others are fully entitled to not want to meet overweight people. No one should be shamed about that. Excatly I dont shame people, The start of this thread does precisely that about people who don't find overnight people attractive. " Yet i cant put my 2p worth | |||
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