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Alpha males or civlised
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I just discovered a woman's profile which says she doesn't like "Alpha males" and suggest they read the work of David Mechs (1999).
I had a quick look and he seems to have done a lot of study of wolf packs in North America. I didn't find anything by him relating to human behaviour. (In nature, it seems, wolf packs are less hierarchical and more civilised than had been previously thought).
In any case, I don't think our natural / instinctive / biological tendencies and urges are a good guide to moral behaviour. We ought to be civilised with each other. (Though some women like a man who is gentle, caring, loving, creative and civilised in normal behaviour but an animal in bed! Always in a consensual way of course!)
The whole Alpha male / "new man" thing is interesting, and attitudes and behaviours have changed quite a lot within living memory. Hell of a long way to go still of course.
Any thoughts on this?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I just discovered a woman's profile which says she doesn't like "Alpha males" and suggest they read the work of David Mechs (1999).
I had a quick look and he seems to have done a lot of study of wolf packs in North America. I didn't find anything by him relating to human behaviour. (In nature, it seems, wolf packs are less hierarchical and more civilised than had been previously thought).
In any case, I don't think our natural / instinctive / biological tendencies and urges are a good guide to moral behaviour. We ought to be civilised with each other. (Though some women like a man who is gentle, caring, loving, creative and civilised in normal behaviour but an animal in bed! Always in a consensual way of course!)
The whole Alpha male / "new man" thing is interesting, and attitudes and behaviours have changed quite a lot within living memory. Hell of a long way to go still of course.
Any thoughts on this?
"
Nah none |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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And some will like a man who is sexually submissive, which doesn’t mean he’s any less of a man. Often submissive men are the complete opposite outside of sex. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I like my men quietly confident. The type who can take me in bed and throw me around, taking me anyway he wants. But is still happy to lie back and let me play with his bumhole when I'm feeling dominant |
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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
Everyone has their own preferences and characteristics they look for in others, regardless of whether they're men or women - personally I can't abide men or women who have to announce they are an "Alpha" by being overly loud, or just the way they act, or even labelling themselves as such on here.
I much prefer people who assume a dominant role without having to advertise it, it's just a natural thing rather than something they have to show off for people to even realise it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The Alpha male is historically, the strongest and most dominant male in an animal pack, the Alpha status grant him the right to mate with his choice of female, human society is not really that different, a woman will as a rule look for that strength and confidence in a mate, |
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"The Alpha male is historically, the strongest and most dominant male in an animal pack, the Alpha status grant him the right to mate with his choice of female, human society is not really that different, a woman will as a rule look for that strength and confidence in a mate, "
Except that Alpha males are not common to all animal species - far from it.
And comparing humans to other animals is generally not helpful. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have known quite a few alpha males in my time (army officers, bankers etc) and amazingly some can be very intelligent and civilised! I like the idea of a "new man" as it's good to see a guy's sensitive side, but in reality they are often wishy-washy and wimpy. If any man is able to combine the two successfully, I would meet him like a shot. |
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"I think she means she doesn't want an arrogant primadonna! Probably best just to say that though.."
Big difference between an alpha male (who's probably only alpha in the bedroom) and someone who's full of himself though x |
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I sometimes go on an American bodybuilding website and the fuckwits on there love to think they are "alpha" . I fucking hate the term. They are all pro trump types and I just go on to rub them up the wrong way. I get called a cuck and beta all the time. To which I laugh at and that gets them go on even more |
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"I like my men quietly confident. The type who can take me in bed and throw me around, taking me anyway he wants. But is still happy to lie back and let me play with his bumhole when I'm feeling dominant "
Haha  I like this |
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I think the problem may be that the term alpha male has been misused to refer to cocky bastards, bullies and men with huge egos, which isn't really the full accurate definition. You can be all those things without fulfilling the role of alpha male. Similarly, an alpha male can function without being those things.
It's understandable that a woman might not want to meet somebody with those traits, yet at the same time they might find a genuine alpha male without those ugly traits incredibly attractive. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Alpha male is historically, the strongest and most dominant male in an animal pack, the Alpha status grant him the right to mate with his choice of female, human society is not really that different, a woman will as a rule look for that strength and confidence in a mate,
Except that Alpha males are not common to all animal species - far from it.
And comparing humans to other animals is generally not helpful. "
said with tongue in cheek, spoken like a true beta. Let's face it, are not all single men on here competing against the each other |
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All people have behavioral choices - following an urge from deep within or to use their evolved brain to decide what is the best option. This relates to eating, taking things we want, dominating or interacting with others etc.
Whatever the hormones surging in your body and the driven urge to splurge, we are highly evolved social animals. Those who use some of what they have to 'dominate' others in ways which are reasonably viewed as abusive, are largely unattractive.
A considered approach to adding to others lives positively is very attractive. With sexual interplay, a guy is more free to let himself have a dominant edge, many of us love this. But cardboard he-men, they can be given a miss. |
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It's a very interesting post O.P.
The problem lies in that 'Alpha' is simply a label.
Too many people attach these labels to themselves and others, according to their own personal definition.
I seldom find forum discussions to make any headway as there is never an agree working definition around which discussion can take place.
(That's the main reason I just muck about )
Alpha simply means number 1. When used with male or female it does ( loosely ) mean the leader of the pack/ a person people will follow/listen to.
Now here is the rub.
Close your eyes and think of all the dweeby slime balls that get a good following. There are many.
Alpha's possess a myriad of characteristics. There are no defining few traits. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I prefer old school gentleman "
I and I think most men change according to situations, and how we are treated. Most women will want to be carried up stairs thrown on the bed and ravaged one day, and seduced with candle lit dinners and rose petals the next...
So the trick to a successful relationship is timing, get those moods in sync. And it's sorted. Being consistently alpha or civilised or whatever description you wish to use is not enough. |
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By *aenMan
over a year ago
Here and There |
If you have to “announce” you are alpha then you’re clearly not.
If you spend a lot of time with animals you can see true alpha behaviour. In my experience horses can exhibit some of the clearest alpha behaviour - and it’s usually a mare. In that case the only way you can handle them safely without them taking a chunk out of you is to become the alpha. And doing so is a subtle process largely focused on quietly demonstrating to them that you’ll take no sh*t.
Works with humans too  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you have to “announce” you are alpha then you’re clearly not.
If you spend a lot of time with animals you can see true alpha behaviour. In my experience horses can exhibit some of the clearest alpha behaviour - and it’s usually a mare. In that case the only way you can handle them safely without them taking a chunk out of you is to become the alpha. And doing so is a subtle process largely focused on quietly demonstrating to them that you’ll take no sh*t.
Works with humans too "
See that is the classic mistake, confusing pack and herd animals. Aggression from a herd animal is generally motivated from fear. You then have the options of showing you are stronger and suceed in dominating the horse or building trust to reduce fear and befriending the horse.
Both have their place, e.g. you can use fear to stop a horse running into a road, because it's quick, but you need trust for the horse to follow you back to its stable yard.
As my nan used to say you get more pussy with honey than vinager, unless the lass has a bag of chips... bit weird was my nan |
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"The Alpha male is historically, the strongest and most dominant male in an animal pack, the Alpha status grant him the right to mate with his choice of female, human society is not really that different, a woman will as a rule look for that strength and confidence in a mate,
Except that Alpha males are not common to all animal species - far from it.
And comparing humans to other animals is generally not helpful. said with tongue in cheek, spoken like a true beta. Let's face it, are not all single men on here competing against the each other"
To a certain extent. But that doesn't mean the men who get the most meets are 'alpha males', in the sense that that term is usually applied in the animal kingdom. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Alpha male types are civilised. If they weren't they would be bullies. People naturally fall in behind an alpha human male; there is no need for a show of physical strength.
That's my view, anyway.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Let's face it, are not all single men on here competing against the each other
No. Next?"
They are not fighting amongst each other to win the women. I don't choose one because I don't like the rest. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Let's face it, are not all single men on here competing against the each other
No. Next?
They are not fighting amongst each other to win the women. I don't choose one because I don't like the rest. "
no we are not, but , we do compete, fab is a prime example, we write a profile we hope will attract a lady. It's human nature |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Let's face it, are not all single men on here competing against the each other
No. Next?
They are not fighting amongst each other to win the women. I don't choose one because I don't like the rest. no we are not, but , we do compete, fab is a prime example, we write a profile we hope will attract a lady. It's human nature"
I don't |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Let's face it, are not all single men on here competing against the each other
No. Next?
They are not fighting amongst each other to win the women. I don't choose one because I don't like the rest. no we are not, but , we do compete, fab is a prime example, we write a profile we hope will attract a lady. It's human nature
I don't "
so the toastie and Victoria sponge is just cunning ploy |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Let's face it, are not all single men on here competing against the each other
No. Next?
They are not fighting amongst each other to win the women. I don't choose one because I don't like the rest. no we are not, but , we do compete, fab is a prime example, we write a profile we hope will attract a lady. It's human nature
I don't so the toastie and Victoria sponge is just cunning ploy "
Once I have perfected my culinary skills no other males will stand a chance  where is that evil laugh icon.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Let's face it, are not all single men on here competing against the each other
No. Next?
They are not fighting amongst each other to win the women. I don't choose one because I don't like the rest. no we are not, but , we do compete, fab is a prime example, we write a profile we hope will attract a lady. It's human nature
I don't so the toastie and Victoria sponge is just cunning ploy
Once I have perfected my culinary skills no other males will stand a chance where is that evil laugh icon.... "
spoken like a true alpha, I doff my hat to you sir |
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"...we do compete, fab is a prime example, we write a profile we hope will attract a lady. It's human nature"
We’re not competing with anyone. This is not animal reproduction, where the females must pick a partner for the species to continue. Only in that circumstance are the males competing.
Hoping to attract somebody is not competing, it is just that; hoping to attract somebody. And, given the nature of the site, if a person finds more than one person they like, there’s no compulsion to choose.
If you’re going into this with a competitive mentality, I’d suggest you’re going about it the wrong way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Let's face it, are not all single men on here competing against the each other
No. Next?
They are not fighting amongst each other to win the women. I don't choose one because I don't like the rest. no we are not, but , we do compete, fab is a prime example, we write a profile we hope will attract a lady. It's human nature"
You're not competing. Think of yourself as a cake or pastry in a patisserie. I fancy an eclair and you are the eclair. The jam doughnut never stood a chance. It's how you present yourself, not how you fight. It's also a matter of what women want, and vice versa for men. I don't appeal in any way to a man who wants a short, blonde 27 year old. Out of the short, blonde 27 year olds, he will choose the one he finds more interesting to talk to. The women have to appeal to him; they knock themselves out of the pool, because they aren't his type, personality wise. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"...we do compete, fab is a prime example, we write a profile we hope will attract a lady. It's human nature
We’re not competing with anyone. This is not animal reproduction, where the females must pick a partner for the species to continue. Only in that circumstance are the males competing.
Hoping to attract somebody is not competing, it is just that; hoping to attract somebody. And, given the nature of the site, if a person finds more than one person they like, there’s no compulsion to choose.
If you’re going into this with a competitive mentality, I’d suggest you’re going about it the wrong way."
This is how I see it too. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Let's face it, are not all single men on here competing against the each other
No. Next?
They are not fighting amongst each other to win the women. I don't choose one because I don't like the rest. no we are not, but , we do compete, fab is a prime example, we write a profile we hope will attract a lady. It's human nature"
Do you write your profile after looking at other's and try to go one better? Or write what you think will attract the kinds of women you are looking for. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Let's face it, are not all single men on here competing against the each other
No. Next?
They are not fighting amongst each other to win the women. I don't choose one because I don't like the rest. no we are not, but , we do compete, fab is a prime example, we write a profile we hope will attract a lady. It's human nature
Do you write your profile after looking at other's and try to go one better? Or write what you think will attract the kinds of women you are looking for. "
I wrote mine with the latter in mind, I am old enough to know people will either like me or not, I will never be all things to all women, but am comfortable in my own skin |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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These "I'm an alpha male" types do tickle me as said natural leaders will become apparent in situations without them really trying. We get some messages off guys who automatically presume Mr is some submissive wimp because he likes to watch me and it really couldn't be further from the truth! |
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By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago
Burnleyish (She/They) |
"Everyone has their own preferences and characteristics they look for in others, regardless of whether they're men or women - personally I can't abide men or women who have to announce they are an "Alpha" by being overly loud, or just the way they act, or even labelling themselves as such on here.
I much prefer people who assume a dominant role without having to advertise it, it's just a natural thing rather than something they have to show off for people to even realise it."
This...
I say I'm not interested in someone who classes themself as an alpha male, yes even though I'm only interested in dominant men. I don't want loud or overly pushy, I like dominance that is quiet and unassuming... Untill it is needed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Alpha male is historically, the strongest and most dominant male in an animal pack, the Alpha status grant him the right to mate with his choice of female, human society is not really that different, a woman will as a rule look for that strength and confidence in a mate, "
I think the term alpha is more in relation to his standing within the male ranks of a pack rather than his sexual standing with the ladies, which comes as a consequence of his alpha male status. In the wild females like to mate with the strongest so that their litter gets the strongest genes.
I am not sure how relevant it is these days but we are animals at the end of the day and we do have urges that seem programmed into us.
I for one have known many hot girls get with an absolute arsehole and found myself asking, what does she see in him? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Alpha male is historically, the strongest and most dominant male in an animal pack, the Alpha status grant him the right to mate with his choice of female, human society is not really that different, a woman will as a rule look for that strength and confidence in a mate,
I think the term alpha is more in relation to his standing within the male ranks of a pack rather than his sexual standing with the ladies, which comes as a consequence of his alpha male status. In the wild females like to mate with the strongest so that their litter gets the strongest genes.
I am not sure how relevant it is these days but we are animals at the end of the day and we do have urges that seem programmed into us.
I for one have known many hot girls get with an absolute arsehole and found myself asking, what does she see in him? "
The term you're looking for is fuckboi.
And I fully agree. Also when lasses moan that they can't find a good guy. |
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Hey - great discussion folks. I'm impressed. Sorry I've been out all day and not able to respond in more detail. So just a few responses to the discussion as a whole.
I agree that "alpha male" is understood differently by different people and lacks a good definition. I guess I meant something like the sort of ruthless competition in which winner takes all which is seen in some animal species (though perhaps not wolves), where males who are outfought live solitary lives outside the pack and don't get to breed. Other people have a more humane concept of alpha - meaning someone who is confident and well organised and can take a lead when appropriate.
I also agree that "alpha male or civilised" is something of a false dichotomy, and it's possible to be both (depending on definition adopted).
For myself, I'm not one of those over-confident natural leaders who are full of themselves. Often I try to listen more than to lead. I take a lead when necessary (and can do in the bed or dungeon if I'm with someone who wants to be dominated!) I can also happily be very subservient to a dominant female. As for competing against other males, that's not how I see things at all. I state what I have to offer; I accept others may have different offers. My offer may be attractive to some women (I'm completely heterosexual) and they may choose to respond. I'm not upset if they don;t - they have plenty of choice and I already have a very fulfilled life. And in fact when I do engage on Fab, I feel very fortunate in the responses I do get.
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Ooooh. The cynicism. I suppose we never know our own motives fully, but guessing someone else's motives is an even more error-prone process. But here are a couple of pointers.
I hadn't any idea whether this thread would get any attention or not.
I've explained what prompted it.
I don't know whether my own self description is appealing or not. And I'm already pretty fulfilled and busy, so even in the unlikely event of some woman making an overture as a result of this thread, I'd not necessarily jump at the offer.
The subject is interesting as we humans are part primitive biology and part civilised and cultured; part self centred and competitive and part loving and generous.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And some will like a man who is sexually submissive, which doesn’t mean he’s any less of a man. Often submissive men are the complete opposite outside of sex. "
I am a confident male, may be too confident at times. However I have very recently discovered that I enjoy being submissive and it got Me thinking, does that make me less of a man? So your comment is very true.  |
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