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Orthodox Jew mayhem!
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On a Ryanair flight yesterday from Warsaw to Stansted, chaos and mayhem from a large group of Orthodox Jews, many in their teens.
Take off delayed as they were unhappy that some of the boys were seated next to women who may be on their period and therefore considered ‘unclean’, if any accidental contact then the boy would become unclean also. Lots of people moved to accommodate them.
Once the seat belt sign was off , chaos broke out. None would stay in their seat, all wandering up and down, gathering in groups to chat, the crew struggled to get the trolley along and going to the loo was difficult. One young girl was intimidated and in tears.
I had enough and started telling them to sit down. One of the ‘elders’ asked what was wrong and I told him they were all being rude and lacking respect to other passenger. He said that if I spoke nicely he would help.
I told him to fuck off.
Just sensed they felt superior, the crew were ineffective. Not defending our own lads but if it had been a Group of lads on a stag do there would have been hell to pay |
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Don't you just love religious fundamentalism!
They wouldn't sit next to a woman, because she might have been on her period and might have been unclean. Talk about offensive.
However, they were quite happy to sit on a budget airliner. Because budget airlines deep clean and sanitise everything on board from the seats, to the tray table, the carpets, the seat-belts.....all in the 20 minutes that they turn the plane around between flights......Oh no, wait a minute......!
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Because I told him that they were being inconsiderate and lacking respect for other passengers. I was determined to be diplomatic but firm. The trouble is he replied in such a condescending manner as if I was just rubbish and he was something special, “fuck off” just seemed right.
Mind you, didn’t make any difference although I did feel a bit better. |
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"Because I told him that they were being inconsiderate and lacking respect for other passengers. I was determined to be diplomatic but firm. The trouble is he replied in such a condescending manner as if I was just rubbish and he was something special, “fuck off” just seemed right.
Mind you, didn’t make any difference although I did feel a bit better."
Good for you for saying something even if it didn't make a difference. |
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Kicking myself this morning. I should have stood up and started taking photos.
And told them I was going to post on Facebook.
So frustrating when you think of something after the event.
Life is too short to complain to Ryanair. A letter to the chief Rabbi perhaps? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Not sure where the period issue (niddah)from as she wasn't his wife and unlikely to have sex on the plane.
Jewish faith from what I understand forbids an Orthodox man whether he is on a plane or not from sitting next to a woman not related to him.
What the miserable man should've done was pre book his seats.
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Nothing new. A few stupid boys did not give it enough thought when booking the tickets. Most people to whom it matters who they sit with make the arrangements in advance and are considerate. No need to blame people for being who they are - that was not what caused the mayhem. |
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"These archaic cults that view women as 'unclean' have no place in the 21st Century."
And other cults (atheism can be one) view everyone else as archaic without even trying to understand where they come from.
This is nothing to do with cleanliness or dirtones and all to do with lack of foresight and manners in the particular indicidual/s. Nothing more, nothing less. |
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"These archaic cults that view women as 'unclean' have no place in the 21st Century.
And other cults (atheism can be one) view everyone else as archaic without even trying to understand where they come from.
This is nothing to do with cleanliness or dirtones and all to do with lack of foresight and manners in the particular indicidual/s. Nothing more, nothing less."
It is everything to do with their cult though, as the original poster has said. |
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"Kicking myself this morning. I should have stood up and started taking photos.
And told them I was going to post on Facebook.
So frustrating when you think of something after the event.
Life is too short to complain to Ryanair. A letter to the chief Rabbi perhaps?"
That might be a good idea. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I was on a flight home from new York about 15yrs ago and as I got on the plane and found my seat the gentleman I should be seated next to called the attendant over. He was Jewish and asked if he could be moved for the very same reasons mentioned in the OPs post. But what he'd failed to realise and what the attendant very quickly and happily pointed out was that there was no way I would be no my period and therefore unclean as I was 34 weeks pregnant. Poor bloke went into a proper strop.
I was highly amused as it was so obvious I was pregnant |
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"I was on a flight home from new York about 15yrs ago and as I got on the plane and found my seat the gentleman I should be seated next to called the attendant over. He was Jewish and asked if he could be moved for the very same reasons mentioned in the OPs post. But what he'd failed to realise and what the attendant very quickly and happily pointed out was that there was no way I would be no my period and therefore unclean as I was 34 weeks pregnant. Poor bloke went into a proper strop.
I was highly amused as it was so obvious I was pregnant "
 |
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A brief explanation for the OP. The thing about the possible period is what my grandfather (of blessed memory) would probably have referred to as "bobe maises" (old wives' tales). It was probably an attempt to explain things to you in a language you would understand - in a very misguided way. The same goes for the request to ask nicely. In brief, you were right, they were wrong, and both parties were culturally insensitive for their own reasons. |
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"Kicking myself this morning. I should have stood up and started taking photos.
And told them I was going to post on Facebook.
So frustrating when you think of something after the event.
Life is too short to complain to Ryanair. A letter to the chief Rabbi perhaps?
That might be a good idea. "
They were ultra-Orthodox. They do not recognise Rabbi Mirvis as an authority. Not that he has any beyond being a figurehead. |
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"I was on a flight home from new York about 15yrs ago and as I got on the plane and found my seat the gentleman I should be seated next to called the attendant over. He was Jewish and asked if he could be moved for the very same reasons mentioned in the OPs post. But what he'd failed to realise and what the attendant very quickly and happily pointed out was that there was no way I would be no my period and therefore unclean as I was 34 weeks pregnant. Poor bloke went into a proper strop.
I was highly amused as it was so obvious I was pregnant "
He should have told the truth though. It is nothing to do with periods. 
Your story brings back memories though. I was also on a flight from NYC after hurricane Irene a week later than my booked flight. I do not dress modestly but I did order a kosher meal, which was not brought because the flight was a newly booked one and I should have ordered it again. The same type of people who have been so reviled on this thread went out of their way to make sure I was not hungry for the duration of the flight.
Do not demonise anyone. |
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"These archaic cults that view women as 'unclean' have no place in the 21st Century.
And other cults (atheism can be one) view everyone else as archaic without even trying to understand where they come from.
This is nothing to do with cleanliness or dirtones and all to do with lack of foresight and manners in the particular indicidual/s. Nothing more, nothing less.
It is everything to do with their cult though, as the original poster has said."
So they should have organiser better. They are in the wrong hands down. |
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"Yes they are in the wrong as you say. They then hide behind, and use religion as an excuse."
You can put it that way. No one is saying that they were right. These things keep happening but being organised is just not a thing for some people, regardless.  |
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you should not have intervened, even if you felt the cabin crew were ineffectual.
once in the air you can not have passengers taking it upon themselves to "do the right thing" in the same way they would if they saw a situation on the ground.
a flight was held at Hk airport recently as a passenger stepped in to help in a situation that they felt the cabin crew were not dealing with. as a result there was "high levels of tension" in certain parts of the cabin, and the captain took the decision to hold the plane. after 1.5 hours of airport staff, police and airline staff coming on board, several passengers were offloaded.
Point is, this was thankfully happening on the ground. Had this been in the air, then the safety of all other passengers would have been at risk.
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"The organisation gives them the perception of superiority that the original poster describes."
And you know this how?
I would not go as far as that. The people who start this kind of thing are usually members of smaller, more stroctly observant sects (who, incidentally, are people with the same rights but who are much less worldly than any of the participants of this discussion so may come across in am unfavourable light). The degree of ignorance of the outside world in some members of those sects ("Orthodox Jew" is a bit of a misnomer - "super ultra Orthodox" is more like it) is baffling. However, ascribing to them what we think they may be feeling towards us is a bit counterproductive. As someone said, leave it to the airline staff - they have been trained for these situations.
Although I would probably give in to the temptation to indulge in some interdenominational exchange of witty words.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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People cause chaos on budget flights all the time. Usually groups of d*unken twats. People are dicks. People in groups even more so. And people are entitled, selfish and inconsiderate. Religion is irrelevant to that. |
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"People cause chaos on budget flights all the time. Usually groups of d*unken twats. People are dicks. People in groups even more so. And people are entitled, selfish and inconsiderate. Religion is irrelevant to that. "
Religious cults cause different, but equally problematic issues. |
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"The organisation gives them the perception of superiority that the original poster describes.
And you know this how?
I would not go as far as that. The people who start this kind of thing are usually members of smaller, more stroctly observant sects (who, incidentally, are people with the same rights but who are much less worldly than any of the participants of this discussion so may come across in am unfavourable light). The degree of ignorance of the outside world in some members of those sects ("Orthodox Jew" is a bit of a misnomer - "super ultra Orthodox" is more like it) is baffling. However, ascribing to them what we think they may be feeling towards us is a bit counterproductive. As someone said, leave it to the airline staff - they have been trained for these situations.
Although I would probably give in to the temptation to indulge in some interdenominational exchange of witty words. "
Airline staff trained to deal with religious nuts who won't sit next to a woman, because of some excuse, and then act up during the rest of the journey, knowing that they can get away with it? Don't bet on the training! |
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I think if your religion stops you doing things that are socially acceptable to 99.9% of the population, then you shouldn't put yourself in the situation where that becomes a problem.
If you can't sit next to women on planes either stay at home or charter your own plane. |
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"I think if your religion stops you doing things that are socially acceptable to 99.9% of the population, then you shouldn't put yourself in the situation where that becomes a problem.
If you can't sit next to women on planes either stay at home or charter your own plane. "
Excatly! |
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"Well on the bright side of things, at least they will of had Ham Sandwiches left
But with Ryanair prices, and being Jewish, which would offend then the most - the price or the ham!
"
The anti-Semitism from fellow passengers. No one is bothered about what other people eat.
However, if there are only two things to choose from, the prices. |
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"The organisation gives them the perception of superiority that the original poster describes.
And you know this how?
I would not go as far as that. The people who start this kind of thing are usually members of smaller, more stroctly observant sects (who, incidentally, are people with the same rights but who are much less worldly than any of the participants of this discussion so may come across in am unfavourable light). The degree of ignorance of the outside world in some members of those sects ("Orthodox Jew" is a bit of a misnomer - "super ultra Orthodox" is more like it) is baffling. However, ascribing to them what we think they may be feeling towards us is a bit counterproductive. As someone said, leave it to the airline staff - they have been trained for these situations.
Although I would probably give in to the temptation to indulge in some interdenominational exchange of witty words.
Airline staff trained to deal with religious nuts who won't sit next to a woman, because of some excuse, and then act up during the rest of the journey, knowing that they can get away with it? Don't bet on the training!"
They have seen it all before. |
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"Well on the bright side of things, at least they will of had Ham Sandwiches left
But with Ryanair prices, and being Jewish, which would offend then the most - the price or the ham!
"
No need for anti semitic tropes. |
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"Well on the bright side of things, at least they will of had Ham Sandwiches left
But with Ryanair prices, and being Jewish, which would offend then the most - the price or the ham!
No need for anti semitic tropes. "
No need for a lack of humour. |
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"I think if your religion stops you doing things that are socially acceptable to 99.9% of the population, then you shouldn't put yourself in the situation where that becomes a problem. "
Then nobody would leave the comfort of their own 4 walls!
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"I think if your religion stops you doing things that are socially acceptable to 99.9% of the population, then you shouldn't put yourself in the situation where that becomes a problem.
Then nobody would leave the comfort of their own 4 walls!
Nonsense.
"
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"The organisation gives them the perception of superiority that the original poster describes.
And you know this how?
I would not go as far as that. The people who start this kind of thing are usually members of smaller, more stroctly observant sects (who, incidentally, are people with the same rights but who are much less worldly than any of the participants of this discussion so may come across in am unfavourable light). The degree of ignorance of the outside world in some members of those sects ("Orthodox Jew" is a bit of a misnomer - "super ultra Orthodox" is more like it) is baffling. However, ascribing to them what we think they may be feeling towards us is a bit counterproductive. As someone said, leave it to the airline staff - they have been trained for these situations.
Although I would probably give in to the temptation to indulge in some interdenominational exchange of witty words. "
Isn't that the point? That is the belief of every fundamental or 'extreme' group.
In this case, that, via descent from the Israelites they are the chosen people (to be in a covenant with God).
The problem for us is that every other fundamentalist group effectively believes the same thing.
The problem for the rest of us is that extremist groups hold these beliefs so strongly, they feel duty bound to impose them on the rest of the World. |
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"I think if your religion stops you doing things that are socially acceptable to 99.9% of the population, then you shouldn't put yourself in the situation where that becomes a problem.
Then nobody would leave the comfort of their own 4 walls!
Nonsense.
"
Lol  |
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"The organisation gives them the perception of superiority that the original poster describes.
And you know this how?
I would not go as far as that. The people who start this kind of thing are usually members of smaller, more stroctly observant sects (who, incidentally, are people with the same rights but who are much less worldly than any of the participants of this discussion so may come across in am unfavourable light). The degree of ignorance of the outside world in some members of those sects ("Orthodox Jew" is a bit of a misnomer - "super ultra Orthodox" is more like it) is baffling. However, ascribing to them what we think they may be feeling towards us is a bit counterproductive. As someone said, leave it to the airline staff - they have been trained for these situations.
Although I would probably give in to the temptation to indulge in some interdenominational exchange of witty words.
Isn't that the point? That is the belief of every fundamental or 'extreme' group.
In this case, that, via descent from the Israelites they are the chosen people (to be in a covenant with God).
The problem for us is that every other fundamentalist group effectively believes the same thing.
The problem for the rest of us is that extremist groups hold these beliefs so strongly, they feel duty bound to impose them on the rest of the World."
Yet the chosen few still have to use Ryanair, like the rest of the unchosen many, but then expect the unchosen many to bow down to the chosen few! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Should have been thrown off by the sound's of it..
Mid flight I say 
That's what I meant."
.
Ooooo were on the same devilish tangent of humour  .
.
Stewardess stewardess... Calm down and let me deal with this situation.
Slap.. Get your shit together you stupid religious arse, slap |
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"It wasnt antisemetic
It was a fact
"
It's not anti semitic to suggest that one shouldn't comply with people's unreasonable religious demands. It is anti semitic to make "jokes" about the alleged meanness of Jewish people. |
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"It wasnt antisemetic
It was a fact
It's not anti semitic to suggest that one shouldn't comply with people's unreasonable religious demands. It is anti semitic to make "jokes" about the alleged meanness of Jewish people. "
The whole point of jokes is playing to stereotypes. That's how comedians work. Stop being a snowflake and looking for offence where there is none. |
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I have no problem with the Jewish faith. I have worked for several Jewish owned companies over the years. Great memories of some lovely people with a wicked sense of humour.
They would have been appalled by the behaviour of this group on that flight and I’m sure would have been more vocal and acted more than me.
I did feel the crew were out of their depth. |
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"I have no problem with the Jewish faith. I have worked for several Jewish owned companies over the years. Great memories of some lovely people with a wicked sense of humour.
They would have been appalled by the behaviour of this group on that flight and I’m sure would have been more vocal and acted more than me.
I did feel the crew were out of their depth."
The problem for crew is that whilst they dare sort d*unks out, they are frightened of some discrimination claim being thrown at them in cases like this. |
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"It wasnt antisemetic
It was a fact
It's not anti semitic to suggest that one shouldn't comply with people's unreasonable religious demands. It is anti semitic to make "jokes" about the alleged meanness of Jewish people.
The whole point of jokes is playing to stereotypes. That's how comedians work. Stop being a snowflake and looking for offence where there is none."
Sorry I forgot it was still 1975.
It's very crass and stupid comedy that relies on racist stereotypes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Name one religion that doesn't make demands of its followers that could offend someone?
One Arab country is now just making it legal for women to drive.
They're all the same and the list in on and on. |
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"I have no problem with the Jewish faith. I have worked for several Jewish owned companies over the years. Great memories of some lovely people with a wicked sense of humour.
They would have been appalled by the behaviour of this group on that flight and I’m sure would have been more vocal and acted more than me.
I did feel the crew were out of their depth."
From the version of events we have I'd say the following
It's difficult when a group uses their religion to justify its poor behaviour but in this case it seems they weren't. Their poor behaviour had nothing to do with their religion and everything to do with bad behaviour. That would have been clear since their religious beliefs had been respected. The crew should and could have intervened on those grounds in my opinion.
A practising Catholic guy I know who's scared of flying was praying hard and so loud on a bumpy flight once that he was scaring the other passengers who rd him to shut the eff up. |
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"I have no problem with the Jewish faith. I have worked for several Jewish owned companies over the years. Great memories of some lovely people with a wicked sense of humour.
They would have been appalled by the behaviour of this group on that flight and I’m sure would have been more vocal and acted more than me.
I did feel the crew were out of their depth.
From the version of events we have I'd say the following
It's difficult when a group uses their religion to justify its poor behaviour but in this case it seems they weren't. Their poor behaviour had nothing to do with their religion and everything to do with bad behaviour. That would have been clear since their religious beliefs had been respected. The crew should and could have intervened on those grounds in my opinion.
A practising Catholic guy I know who's scared of flying was praying hard and so loud on a bumpy flight once that he was scaring the other passengers who rd him to shut the eff up. "
If I was a woman I would have refused to move. I am not going to accommodate anyone's religious belief that insists I am unclean. |
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"I have no problem with the Jewish faith. I have worked for several Jewish owned companies over the years. Great memories of some lovely people with a wicked sense of humour.
They would have been appalled by the behaviour of this group on that flight and I’m sure would have been more vocal and acted more than me.
I did feel the crew were out of their depth.
From the version of events we have I'd say the following
It's difficult when a group uses their religion to justify its poor behaviour but in this case it seems they weren't. Their poor behaviour had nothing to do with their religion and everything to do with bad behaviour. That would have been clear since their religious beliefs had been respected. The crew should and could have intervened on those grounds in my opinion.
A practising Catholic guy I know who's scared of flying was praying hard and so loud on a bumpy flight once that he was scaring the other passengers who rd him to shut the eff up.
If I was a woman I would have refused to move. I am not going to accommodate anyone's religious belief that insists I am unclean. "
That's anti-Semitic! |
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If you follow a faith... then you should respect other people's way of life, don't expect special treatment because you are from a particular faith, what ever you choose to do in life should be customised by yourself not the other way round...
e.g not sitting next to a women on a plane.. if you have a problem then find other means of travelling. |
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"I have no problem with the Jewish faith. I have worked for several Jewish owned companies over the years. Great memories of some lovely people with a wicked sense of humour.
They would have been appalled by the behaviour of this group on that flight and I’m sure would have been more vocal and acted more than me.
I did feel the crew were out of their depth.
From the version of events we have I'd say the following
It's difficult when a group uses their religion to justify its poor behaviour but in this case it seems they weren't. Their poor behaviour had nothing to do with their religion and everything to do with bad behaviour. That would have been clear since their religious beliefs had been respected. The crew should and could have intervened on those grounds in my opinion.
A practising Catholic guy I know who's scared of flying was praying hard and so loud on a bumpy flight once that he was scaring the other passengers who rd him to shut the eff up.
If I was a woman I would have refused to move. I am not going to accommodate anyone's religious belief that insists I am unclean.
That's anti-Semitic!"
No its not. I'd apply the same policy to unreasonable demands made by any religious group. |
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"If you follow a faith... then you should respect other people's way of life, don't expect special treatment because you are from a particular faith, what ever you choose to do in life should be customised by yourself not the other way round...
e.g not sitting next to a women on a plane.. if you have a problem then find other means of travelling. "
But the problem with really and truly holding a faith is that you strongly believe you are right and people not holding your faith are wrong.
That's why faith is a bad thing. |
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"I have no problem with the Jewish faith. I have worked for several Jewish owned companies over the years. Great memories of some lovely people with a wicked sense of humour.
They would have been appalled by the behaviour of this group on that flight and I’m sure would have been more vocal and acted more than me.
I did feel the crew were out of their depth.
From the version of events we have I'd say the following
It's difficult when a group uses their religion to justify its poor behaviour but in this case it seems they weren't. Their poor behaviour had nothing to do with their religion and everything to do with bad behaviour. That would have been clear since their religious beliefs had been respected. The crew should and could have intervened on those grounds in my opinion.
A practising Catholic guy I know who's scared of flying was praying hard and so loud on a bumpy flight once that he was scaring the other passengers who rd him to shut the eff up.
If I was a woman I would have refused to move. I am not going to accommodate anyone's religious belief that insists I am unclean.
That's anti-Semitic!
No its not. I'd apply the same policy to unreasonable demands made by any religious group. "
And I'd make the same joke about the stereotypes of any group! |
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"I have no problem with the Jewish faith. I have worked for several Jewish owned companies over the years. Great memories of some lovely people with a wicked sense of humour.
They would have been appalled by the behaviour of this group on that flight and I’m sure would have been more vocal and acted more than me.
I did feel the crew were out of their depth.
From the version of events we have I'd say the following
It's difficult when a group uses their religion to justify its poor behaviour but in this case it seems they weren't. Their poor behaviour had nothing to do with their religion and everything to do with bad behaviour. That would have been clear since their religious beliefs had been respected. The crew should and could have intervened on those grounds in my opinion.
A practising Catholic guy I know who's scared of flying was praying hard and so loud on a bumpy flight once that he was scaring the other passengers who rd him to shut the eff up.
If I was a woman I would have refused to move. I am not going to accommodate anyone's religious belief that insists I am unclean.
That's anti-Semitic!
No its not. I'd apply the same policy to unreasonable demands made by any religious group.
And I'd make the same joke about the stereotypes of any group!"
So you're racist about everyone then? |
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Is it racist to make jokes of any race, religion creed? It would be if offensive but very few jokes are offensive surely.
There was this bisexual Englishman, when his wife found out, she didn’t know which way to turn. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Should it happen again, just mention that the previous flight was filled with menstruating women so all the seats will make them sinners of the highest order... |
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"Should it happen again, just mention that the previous flight was filled with menstruating women so all the seats will make them sinners of the highest order..."
And the plane seats haven't been cleaned for 3 years, and most of the women on the way to Magaluf wear short skirts and no knickers.
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"Is it racist to make jokes of any race, religion creed? It would be if offensive but very few jokes are offensive surely.
There was this bisexual Englishman, when his wife found out, she didn’t know which way to turn."
In that joke the man doesn't have to be English for it to work, so it's not racist.
Racist jokes play on negative stereotypes about certain groups. These days they are generally socially unacceptable and lots of people find them offensive.
Tell them if you like, but you'll be asking for trouble. |
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Actually, while the ‘musical chairs’ at the beginning delayed take off, the really irritating bit was the constant walking around, standing in groups blocking the aisle, seat swapping. A group of ten or so next to my seat. Not taking any notice of polite requests to sit down. The so called ‘elders ‘ while apologetic made no attempt to bring order. I do accept it could have been any other religion or group. I know a group of Brits coming back from a stag do would have been dealt with.
Forget the religious element. Just a bunch of wankers! |
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"Is it racist to make jokes of any race, religion creed? It would be if offensive but very few jokes are offensive surely.
There was this bisexual Englishman, when his wife found out, she didn’t know which way to turn.
In that joke the man doesn't have to be English for it to work, so it's not racist.
Racist jokes play on negative stereotypes about certain groups. These days they are generally socially unacceptable and lots of people find them offensive.
Tell them if you like, but you'll be asking for trouble. "
What's the difference between a joke about a Jew being tight with money; a Yorkshireman being tight with money and a Scot being tight with money?
Stop shouting racism and looking for offence. |
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Is this racist? Why do India and Pakistan never qualify for the World Cup? Because every time they get a corner they put a shop on it.
I have told that to both of the above and they thought it funny |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it racist to make jokes of any race, religion creed? It would be if offensive but very few jokes are offensive surely.
There was this bisexual Englishman, when his wife found out, she didn’t know which way to turn.
In that joke the man doesn't have to be English for it to work, so it's not racist.
Racist jokes play on negative stereotypes about certain groups. These days they are generally socially unacceptable and lots of people find them offensive.
Tell them if you like, but you'll be asking for trouble.
What's the difference between a joke about a Jew being tight with money; a Yorkshireman being tight with money and a Scot being tight with money?
Stop shouting racism and looking for offence. "
There's no difference. In each case the stereotype is dated and the supposed joke isn't actually funny. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
if it was classed as serious or dangerous the pilot would have been called to the cabin .
plus the said group arrested on landing
ryanair crew are very young these days , altho trained i dont think they administer authority very well.
i drive them about so hear there stories , 16 hour days , lack of sleep etc etc |
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"Is it racist to make jokes of any race, religion creed? It would be if offensive but very few jokes are offensive surely.
There was this bisexual Englishman, when his wife found out, she didn’t know which way to turn.
In that joke the man doesn't have to be English for it to work, so it's not racist.
Racist jokes play on negative stereotypes about certain groups. These days they are generally socially unacceptable and lots of people find them offensive.
Tell them if you like, but you'll be asking for trouble.
What's the difference between a joke about a Jew being tight with money; a Yorkshireman being tight with money and a Scot being tight with money?
Stop shouting racism and looking for offence.
There's no difference. In each case the stereotype is dated and the supposed joke isn't actually funny. "
So what humour is funny? PC left-wing. new age crap?
Funny how Ken Dodd packed venues until he was 90 with mother-in-law jokes etc. |
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"Should it happen again, just mention that the previous flight was filled with menstruating women so all the seats will make them sinners of the highest order..."
I'd have waved my soggy tampon at them if they were all stood next to my seat in the aisle,I can't be doing with the confinement of a plane as it is without it being made to feel worse. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Actually, while the ‘musical chairs’ at the beginning delayed take off, the really irritating bit was the constant walking around, standing in groups blocking the aisle, seat swapping. A group of ten or so next to my seat. Not taking any notice of polite requests to sit down. The so called ‘elders ‘ while apologetic made no attempt to bring order. I do accept it could have been any other religion or group. I know a group of Brits coming back from a stag do would have been dealt with.
Forget the religious element. Just a bunch of wankers!"
Forget the religious element? But wasn't that the focus of your opening post?
Anyway in case I missed it I'm still curious how telling the guy offering to help to fuck off helped the situation? |
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"Is it racist to make jokes of any race, religion creed? It would be if offensive but very few jokes are offensive surely.
There was this bisexual Englishman, when his wife found out, she didn’t know which way to turn.
In that joke the man doesn't have to be English for it to work, so it's not racist.
Racist jokes play on negative stereotypes about certain groups. These days they are generally socially unacceptable and lots of people find them offensive.
Tell them if you like, but you'll be asking for trouble.
What's the difference between a joke about a Jew being tight with money; a Yorkshireman being tight with money and a Scot being tight with money?
Stop shouting racism and looking for offence. "
You keep telling racist jokes and I'll keep saying they're racist. That's how free speech works isn't it? |
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"Actually, while the ‘musical chairs’ at the beginning delayed take off, the really irritating bit was the constant walking around, standing in groups blocking the aisle, seat swapping. A group of ten or so next to my seat. Not taking any notice of polite requests to sit down. The so called ‘elders ‘ while apologetic made no attempt to bring order. I do accept it could have been any other religion or group. I know a group of Brits coming back from a stag do would have been dealt with.
Forget the religious element. Just a bunch of wankers!
Forget the religious element? But wasn't that the focus of your opening post?
Anyway in case I missed it I'm still curious how telling the guy offering to help to fuck off helped the situation?"
He's already explained that. |
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"Is it racist to make jokes of any race, religion creed? It would be if offensive but very few jokes are offensive surely.
There was this bisexual Englishman, when his wife found out, she didn’t know which way to turn.
In that joke the man doesn't have to be English for it to work, so it's not racist.
Racist jokes play on negative stereotypes about certain groups. These days they are generally socially unacceptable and lots of people find them offensive.
Tell them if you like, but you'll be asking for trouble.
What's the difference between a joke about a Jew being tight with money; a Yorkshireman being tight with money and a Scot being tight with money?
Stop shouting racism and looking for offence.
You keep telling racist jokes and I'll keep saying they're racist. That's how free speech works isn't it? "
And you'll be in the minority. The rest of the world loves humour, unlike you.
Surprised that you are not pretending to be a lawyer today, who has taken many cases against comedians. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it racist to make jokes of any race, religion creed? It would be if offensive but very few jokes are offensive surely.
There was this bisexual Englishman, when his wife found out, she didn’t know which way to turn.
In that joke the man doesn't have to be English for it to work, so it's not racist.
Racist jokes play on negative stereotypes about certain groups. These days they are generally socially unacceptable and lots of people find them offensive.
Tell them if you like, but you'll be asking for trouble.
What's the difference between a joke about a Jew being tight with money; a Yorkshireman being tight with money and a Scot being tight with money?
Stop shouting racism and looking for offence.
There's no difference. In each case the stereotype is dated and the supposed joke isn't actually funny.
So what humour is funny? PC left-wing. new age crap?
Funny how Ken Dodd packed venues until he was 90 with mother-in-law jokes etc."
Prove me wrong. Post a genuinely funny and original Joe where the punchline is based on the lazy stereotype of jews/scots/Yorkshire being tight?
It's odd that you automatically went on the attack with a PC comment. The reality is that these jokes were being made 30 or 40 years ago, humour has evolved since then |
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"If you follow a faith... then you should respect other people's way of life, don't expect special treatment because you are from a particular faith, what ever you choose to do in life should be customised by yourself not the other way round...
e.g not sitting next to a women on a plane.. if you have a problem then find other means of travelling.
But the problem with really and truly holding a faith is that you strongly believe you are right and people not holding your faith are wrong.
That's why faith is a bad thing. "
I disagree.. faith is based on spiritual ground, you're own personal faith shours be kept on boundaries of personal choice... not expect eveveryone to change ways so it suits you.
Most religious people operate this way.. it's just when they expect everyone to accommodate them.. it becomes extreme. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Actually, while the ‘musical chairs’ at the beginning delayed take off, the really irritating bit was the constant walking around, standing in groups blocking the aisle, seat swapping. A group of ten or so next to my seat. Not taking any notice of polite requests to sit down. The so called ‘elders ‘ while apologetic made no attempt to bring order. I do accept it could have been any other religion or group. I know a group of Brits coming back from a stag do would have been dealt with.
Forget the religious element. Just a bunch of wankers!
Forget the religious element? But wasn't that the focus of your opening post?
Anyway in case I missed it I'm still curious how telling the guy offering to help to fuck off helped the situation?
He's already explained that."
 I'll scroll up then, I started from the bottom amd scan read it |
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"If you follow a faith... then you should respect other people's way of life, don't expect special treatment because you are from a particular faith, what ever you choose to do in life should be customised by yourself not the other way round...
e.g not sitting next to a women on a plane.. if you have a problem then find other means of travelling.
But the problem with really and truly holding a faith is that you strongly believe you are right and people not holding your faith are wrong.
That's why faith is a bad thing.
I disagree.. faith is based on spiritual ground, you're own personal faith shours be kept on boundaries of personal choice... not expect eveveryone to change ways so it suits you.
Most religious people operate this way.. it's just when they expect everyone to accommodate them.. it becomes extreme. "
Should* |
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"Is it racist to make jokes of any race, religion creed? It would be if offensive but very few jokes are offensive surely.
There was this bisexual Englishman, when his wife found out, she didn’t know which way to turn.
In that joke the man doesn't have to be English for it to work, so it's not racist.
Racist jokes play on negative stereotypes about certain groups. These days they are generally socially unacceptable and lots of people find them offensive.
Tell them if you like, but you'll be asking for trouble.
What's the difference between a joke about a Jew being tight with money; a Yorkshireman being tight with money and a Scot being tight with money?
Stop shouting racism and looking for offence.
There's no difference. In each case the stereotype is dated and the supposed joke isn't actually funny.
So what humour is funny? PC left-wing. new age crap?
Funny how Ken Dodd packed venues until he was 90 with mother-in-law jokes etc.
Prove me wrong. Post a genuinely funny and original Joe where the punchline is based on the lazy stereotype of jews/scots/Yorkshire being tight?
It's odd that you automatically went on the attack with a PC comment. The reality is that these jokes were being made 30 or 40 years ago, humour has evolved since then"
They might be old, but they are still funny. Hence why Ken Dodd packed venues until he was 90, whereas Ben Elton...... |
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"Is it racist to make jokes of any race, religion creed? It would be if offensive but very few jokes are offensive surely.
There was this bisexual Englishman, when his wife found out, she didn’t know which way to turn.
In that joke the man doesn't have to be English for it to work, so it's not racist.
Racist jokes play on negative stereotypes about certain groups. These days they are generally socially unacceptable and lots of people find them offensive.
Tell them if you like, but you'll be asking for trouble.
What's the difference between a joke about a Jew being tight with money; a Yorkshireman being tight with money and a Scot being tight with money?
Stop shouting racism and looking for offence.
You keep telling racist jokes and I'll keep saying they're racist. That's how free speech works isn't it?
And you'll be in the minority. The rest of the world loves humour, unlike you.
Surprised that you are not pretending to be a lawyer today, who has taken many cases against comedians. "
Are you incapable of a discussion without ad hominem attacks? |
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"Is it racist to make jokes of any race, religion creed? It would be if offensive but very few jokes are offensive surely.
There was this bisexual Englishman, when his wife found out, she didn’t know which way to turn.
In that joke the man doesn't have to be English for it to work, so it's not racist.
Racist jokes play on negative stereotypes about certain groups. These days they are generally socially unacceptable and lots of people find them offensive.
Tell them if you like, but you'll be asking for trouble.
What's the difference between a joke about a Jew being tight with money; a Yorkshireman being tight with money and a Scot being tight with money?
Stop shouting racism and looking for offence.
There's no difference. In each case the stereotype is dated and the supposed joke isn't actually funny.
So what humour is funny? PC left-wing. new age crap?
Funny how Ken Dodd packed venues until he was 90 with mother-in-law jokes etc.
Prove me wrong. Post a genuinely funny and original Joe where the punchline is based on the lazy stereotype of jews/scots/Yorkshire being tight?
It's odd that you automatically went on the attack with a PC comment. The reality is that these jokes were being made 30 or 40 years ago, humour has evolved since then
They might be old, but they are still funny. Hence why Ken Dodd packed venues until he was 90, whereas Ben Elton......"
Has it ever occurred to you that humour is entirely subjective and that what people found to be funny forty years ago is, by and large, not found to be funny by people now?
I would be willing to bet a large sum of money that the average age of Ken Dodds recent audiences was well over sixty. Purely because he spoke to them. He said nothing to most younger people. |
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"You do normally pretend to be a lawyer though on here."
That's because I am. You choose not to believe me. That's your right. I just don't see why you bring up that irrelevant point in this discussion. |
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"You do normally pretend to be a lawyer though on here.
That's because I am. You choose not to believe me. That's your right. I just don't see why you bring up that irrelevant point in this discussion. "
Because you are not a lawyer. The point yesterday when you said you couldn't find the cases on Google proved that. As if lawyers look for cases on Google! As if law reports are on Google. That's what specialist paid only legal publishers are for, both electronically and in print. |
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"You do normally pretend to be a lawyer though on here.
That's because I am. You choose not to believe me. That's your right. I just don't see why you bring up that irrelevant point in this discussion.
Because you are not a lawyer. The point yesterday when you said you couldn't find the cases on Google proved that. As if lawyers look for cases on Google! As if law reports are on Google. That's what specialist paid only legal publishers are for, both electronically and in print."
I don't give a toss whether you believe me or not. But if you want me to look up law reports you need to give full citations not random names you got from a quick Google and a shifty at an old copy of Personnel Today. |
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"Dear _inkylondonpair and _eedsandy,
Stop it! What started as a comment on bad behaviour on a flight has turned to a debate on old v new comedy and racism.
Please kiss and make up."
We're having fun |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Dear _inkylondonpair and _eedsandy,
Stop it! What started as a comment on bad behaviour on a flight has turned to a debate on old v new comedy and racism.
Please kiss and make up."
There’s always the reply privately button |
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The management of passengers and safety rests with the crew, so if I'd had any issue with this I would have raised it with the crew. Passengers may choose to swap their seats with others of course, though this is normally done with courtesy and gratitude, for people having helped them. I wouldn't engage with people who were disruptive to me, other than requesting their interaction with crew.
Some religions do regard some women during, as well as after their menstruation. as being inappropriate for them to congregate with, as well as for them to use beds/seats etc afterwards, unless cleaned. They themselves would also have to cleanse themselves. It's a rather difficult situation to undertake in a mixed modern society, where people are surrounded by strangers who wouldn't likely share their belief system. If someone had very strict requirements for segregation etc, then the onus would be on them to conclude the matter, rather than expecting others to undergo major changes to their lives. Alternative travel arrangements would have been one option, though these people may have been traveling in emergency circumstances: but this still doesn't shift responsibilities onto others.
In any event, where there are clear legal responsibilities under a commercial contract - the airline representatives, then it would remain important for them to handle the situation, rather than others engage, potentially being confrontational or disrespectful, potentially causing further unrest. I don't generally do anything other than respect others, I sometimes view that being clear and communicating my boundaries as highly appropriate. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As long as you are. I don’t want anyone falling out due to my thread."
I wouldn’t worry about it, the chap from Leeds could argue in an empty phone box |
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Not wanting to sit next to a women and making a fuss about it is offensive... it's offensive to that women you don't want to sit with..
If he had said that he didn't want to sit with someone because they are black... then this would be extremely offensive.. so why is this any different.. he is discriminating against women saying they are unclean |
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By *uckymooMan
over a year ago
Mid-Cheshire |
I do not have a clue why any religion would ban a man from being near a menstruated woman
But I do know my local pub is full of blokes on a Sundays, 1 in 4 saying its blob week so im staying out the house.
|
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I know. You really had to be there. It was a combination and build up. He had almost two hours to have done something and done nothing. He saw me consoling a young girl who was upset and in tears. Anyone with an ounce of sense or concern would clearly see the problem and do something.
He asked me what the problem was can you believe when he had a dozen guys around him , I told him that his group were very irritating and disrespectful to other passengers . I was polite but firm. He then in such a smarmy and condescending manner made what I considered to be an insincere offer to help. Hence my response. I know you lose the moral argument but boy did it feel good |
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"Not wanting to sit next to a women and making a fuss about it is offensive... it's offensive to that women you don't want to sit with..
If he had said that he didn't want to sit with someone because they are black... then this would be extremely offensive.. so why is this any different.. he is discriminating against women saying they are unclean"
Exactly. If your religion mandates telling people in public you consider them unclean, then you can fuck right off.
If that's where your head is that I can't see why you would want to go on planes full of "unclean" women. |
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It wasn’t just one. It was about twenty that had to change seats, hence the take off delay for musical chairs. That all had seat numbers like the rest of us but demanded changes.
Blimey. Ryanair is stressful enough. |
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"I do not have a clue why any religion would ban a man from being near a menstruated woman
But I do know my local pub is full of blokes on a Sundays, 1 in 4 saying its blob week so im staying out the house.
"
Once again, it is nothing about periods. It is an explanation some people think will be plausible to outsiders. The real answer is a little bit longer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You might want to check out Roy "Chubby Brown's" touring schedule for this year too.
And as he says on his website:
"If easily offended, please stay away""
I think citing Roy Chubby Brown in response to a suggestion that jokes about dated racial stereotypes only furather proves my point |
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