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Homeless Vigilantes
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 ) https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5680222/torbay-homeless-campaign-fake-begging/
But what's your thoughts on this...is it targeting the vulnerable. ..or do you agree with this? | |||
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"So a group of vigilantes have start targeting beggers in torbay and outing them for not being homeless...see link to the sun article (I know the sun ) https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5680222/torbay-homeless-campaign-fake-begging/
But what's your thoughts on this...is it targeting the vulnerable. ..or do you agree with this?"Haven't read the article, Mistress, but that's got to be wrong on all levels. There are genuine homeless and vulnerable people, who we need to look after and those that aren't. Nobody in this day and age should have to beg though.  | |||
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"So a group of vigilantes have start targeting beggers in torbay and outing them for not being homeless...see link to the sun article (I know the sun ) https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5680222/torbay-homeless-campaign-fake-begging/
But what's your thoughts on this...is it targeting the vulnerable. ..or do you agree with this?
Haven't read the article, Mistress, but that's got to be wrong on all levels. There are genuine homeless and vulnerable people, who we need to look after and those that aren't. Nobody in this day and age should have to beg though. "I totally agree...nobody should but unfortunately with sanctions many do find themselves were the only other alternative is to steal sadly  | |||
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"So a group of vigilantes have start targeting beggers in torbay and outing them for not being homeless...see link to the sun article (I know the sun ) https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5680222/torbay-homeless-campaign-fake-begging/
But what's your thoughts on this...is it targeting the vulnerable. ..or do you agree with this?
Haven't read the article, Mistress, but that's got to be wrong on all levels. There are genuine homeless and vulnerable people, who we need to look after and those that aren't. Nobody in this day and age should have to beg though.
I totally agree...nobody should but unfortunately with sanctions many do find themselves were the only other alternative is to steal sadly "Some do it to fund their drug taking and some because they came here with no job to start and can't get a job. | |||
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"I kind of agree if they aren't genuine, but obviously the ones who are genuine should be helped straight away. There are quite a few posing as ex military thinking it will get them sympathy, but quickly crumble when questioned on their service number or who the Sgt Major was in the regiment in the time they claimed to have served etc..." ...and that is disgraceful, isn't it. It's sometimes difficult to know who the genuine homeless are. As they suggest, better to give beggars a hot drink and food than money. | |||
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"I didn't like what I read. There is a huge misconception around the term "homeless" often it means the person is in a bed and Breakfast type accommodation and has benefits and often these people are begging. It's the "Rough sleepers" that we need to help, very often they aren't begging. The telltail signs are their sleeping bags and scant possessions in a shop doorway or similar. These are the ones who are truly homeless. XXX" Good point  | |||
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For evil to thrive all it takes is for good men and women to do nothing.
Said vigilantes should perhaps trying sleeping rough in winter....
It may just provide them with insight and empathy. | |||
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"Maybe the genuine homeless should out these beggers who disapear at the end of a begging shift,jump back in their cars and drive home" I agree with that mate | |||
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"Maybe the genuine homeless should out these beggers who disapear at the end of a begging shift,jump back in their cars and drive home" | |||
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"One word in your post condemns all the self appointed alledged guardians of the personal prejudices that think it's ever acceptable to mistreat others... Vigilantes!
For evil to thrive all it takes is for good men and women to do nothing.
Said vigilantes should perhaps trying sleeping rough in winter....
It may just provide them with insight and empathy."You didn't read the article did you | |||
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"I was tapped up by a beggar in a shop doorway after leaving a cash point ( I drawn money to pay for my digs)at 7+30 pm one Monday evening in Portsmouth. Having got up at 3-30 on that morning, driven 378 miles, did a days work until 7pm, can anyone guess my response to him" Probably the same as mine | |||
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"One word in your post condemns all the self appointed alledged guardians of the personal prejudices that think it's ever acceptable to mistreat others... Vigilantes!
For evil to thrive all it takes is for good men and women to do nothing.
Said vigilantes should perhaps trying sleeping rough in winter....
It may just provide them with insight and empathy.
You didn't read the article did you "I never read crap like The Sun! And no matter what the circumstances the very concept of "vigilantes" is always indefensible. | |||
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"One word in your post condemns all the self appointed alledged guardians of the personal prejudices that think it's ever acceptable to mistreat others... Vigilantes!
For evil to thrive all it takes is for good men and women to do nothing.
Said vigilantes should perhaps trying sleeping rough in winter....
It may just provide them with insight and empathy.
You didn't read the article did you
I never read crap like The Sun!
And no matter what the circumstances the very concept of "vigilantes" is always indefensible."Keep digging | |||
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"I.thunk it might have something to do with the same people, printing a story about a group of beggars getting out of a car to go begging." It's easy money for some. | |||
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"You didn't read the article did you
I never read crap like The Sun"This. The S*n is one of the few examples of reading making people less well-informed. | |||
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The masses need their fix... | |||
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"You know your society is fucked up when you turn on the poor and the homeless .The TV is full of "poverty porn".It's taken over from "property porn"...
The masses need their fix..."I agree. It's horrible. | |||
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"I kind of agree if they aren't genuine, but obviously the ones who are genuine should be helped straight away. There are quite a few posing as ex military thinking it will get them sympathy, but quickly crumble when questioned on their service number or who the Sgt Major was in the regiment in the time they claimed to have served etc..." All homeless should be helped regardless | |||
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"You know your society is fucked up when you turn on the poor and the homeless .The TV is full of "poverty porn".It's taken over from "property porn"...
The masses need their fix...". Pitch forks get your pitch forks, pitch fork madam  | |||
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"You know your society is fucked up when you turn on the poor and the homeless .The TV is full of "poverty porn".It's taken over from "property porn"...
The masses need their fix..."Well said.... | |||
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"Vulnerable? "you dont think homeless people are vulnerable? | |||
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"So a group of vigilantes have start targeting beggers in torbay and outing them for not being homeless...see link to the sun article (I know the sun ) https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5680222/torbay-homeless-campaign-fake-begging/
But what's your thoughts on this...is it targeting the vulnerable. ..or do you agree with this?"As said you have mis represented the people even if it was printed in the sun. It’s on the bbc web site. They are not targeting the homeless. They are targeting ‘professional beggers’ who do have a home and are actually assaulting and intimidating real homeless people. These professional beggers are also intimidating the general public ( OAPs) to give them money. By the actions taken the professional beggers have left the area. These are not beggers they are crooks and frsudsters. It’s like targeting pick pockets or shop lifters. | |||
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"You know your society is fucked up when you turn on the poor and the homeless .The TV is full of "poverty porn".It's taken over from "property porn"...
The masses need their fix...
Well said.... "They haven't turned on the poor and homeless. | |||
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"You know your society is fucked up when you turn on the poor and the homeless .The TV is full of "poverty porn".It's taken over from "property porn"...
The masses need their fix....
Pitch forks get your pitch forks, pitch fork madam "And torches Dave.It completes the look.. | |||
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"Vulnerable?
you dont think homeless people are vulnerable?"I think the point being made is that the beggars being targeted aren’t homeless . | |||
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"So a group of vigilantes have start targeting beggers in torbay and outing them for not being homeless...see link to the sun article (I know the sun ) https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5680222/torbay-homeless-campaign-fake-begging/
But what's your thoughts on this...is it targeting the vulnerable. ..or do you agree with this?
As said you have mis represented the people even if it was printed in the sun.
It’s on the bbc web site.
They are not targeting the homeless. They are targeting ‘professional beggers’ who do have a home and are actually assaulting and intimidating real homeless people.
These professional beggers are also intimidating the general public ( OAPs) to give them money.
By the actions taken the professional beggers have left the area.
These are not beggers they are crooks and frsudsters. It’s like targeting pick pockets or shop lifters. " | |||
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"This is just my opinion so here goes. In a ideal world there would be no beggers but! We are far from being a ideal world while people are suffering servere hardships. I know there are people who will always abuse people's generosity but unfortunately there are still a lot who need it. Also as said above about vigilantes...I feel they are not helping the situation either by just taking Thier photos or hounding them from towns. A lot on here would not to be in the same position as these and classing all the same is just wrong. Imo" Instead of just relying on one poor source of information you check the facts before posting. But they are not hounding the homeless out of town. They are merely credit checking. The Con men are being outed and leave. Vigilante has a broad meaning. In certain cases they can do good. | |||
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"The article says that the "vigilantes" are checking to see if people are "genuinely destitute". What it doesn't say is what the definition of destitute they are using is. For one thing, destitute does not mean homeless. Just because you might have somewhere to sleep at night, it doesn't mean you are some kind of con artist. " Spot on..A society that accepts a group of self righteous vigilantes to check up on homeless people is as far from civilisation as it gets. What next the self righteous vigilantes following single mums home from a food banks to check there cupboards are bare....
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"Number of people commenting after having read the article: 3" Still 3 | |||
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"Number of people commenting after having read the article: 3 Still 3 " Put a link to a uncorrupt, non asshole of a paper (if there is such a thing ) and that number would go up  | |||
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"Number of people commenting after having read the article: 3 Still 3 Put a link to a uncorrupt, non asshole of a paper (if there is such a thing ) and that number would go up "https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-devon-43210305 Mr Sims, the evil vigilante who was motivated to help the guinely homeless took 17 photos and found that 15 of them were con artists. Since people are jumping to the defence of the con artists, 18 of them had been found to beat up that actual homeless, who reduce their profits | |||
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"Number of people commenting after having read the article: 3 Still 3 Put a link to a uncorrupt, non asshole of a paper (if there is such a thing ) and that number would go up
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-devon-43210305
Mr Sims, the evil vigilante who was motivated to help the guinely homeless took 17 photos and found that 15 of them were con artists.
Since people are jumping to the defence of the con artists, 18 of them had been found to beat up that actual homeless, who reduce their profits "Thank you. Now I'll go and read | |||
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"Number of people commenting after having read the article: 3 Still 3 Put a link to a uncorrupt, non asshole of a paper (if there is such a thing ) and that number would go up "Dont read or buy the Sun. However a better article is in the BBC need web site and a bit of searching shows up other stuff too. Unfortunately it’s not possible to post links in here. Professional begging is a national issue and is often controlled by criminal gangs. So the people who suffer are the real homeless ones. The point is people are commenting without checking the facts. | |||
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"This is just my opinion so here goes. In a ideal world there would be no beggers but! We are far from being a ideal world while people are suffering servere hardships. I know there are people who will always abuse people's generosity but unfortunately there are still a lot who need it. Also as said above about vigilantes...I feel they are not helping the situation either by just taking Thier photos or hounding them from towns. A lot on here would not to be in the same position as these and classing all the same is just wrong. Imo Instead of just relying on one poor source of information you check the facts before posting. But they are not hounding the homeless out of town. They are merely credit checking. The Con men are being outed and leave. Vigilante has a broad meaning. In certain cases they can do good. " This story was covered by other Daily national newspapers. Surprisingly, only The Sun chose to describe those taking the actions of photographing the beggars as "vigilantes"! Obviously, the newspaper's hacks could not put together an article on its own merits without introducing some "sensationalism" content. Typical! What else would you expect from such a rag? | |||
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"This is just my opinion so here goes. In a ideal world there would be no beggers but! We are far from being a ideal world while people are suffering servere hardships. I know there are people who will always abuse people's generosity but unfortunately there are still a lot who need it. Also as said above about vigilantes...I feel they are not helping the situation either by just taking Thier photos or hounding them from towns. A lot on here would not to be in the same position as these and classing all the same is just wrong. Imo Instead of just relying on one poor source of information you check the facts before posting. But they are not hounding the homeless out of town. They are merely credit checking. The Con men are being outed and leave. Vigilante has a broad meaning. In certain cases they can do good. This story was covered by other Daily national newspapers. Surprisingly, only The Sun chose to describe those taking the actions of photographing the beggars as "vigilantes"! Obviously, the newspaper's hacks could not put together an article on its own merits without introducing some "sensationalism" content. Typical! What else would you expect from such a rag?" John Hamblin, chief executive of Devon homeless charity Shekinah, called the campaign "divisive and dangerous". He said: "I'm not saying there isn't a problem with begging, but there's an appropriate way of dealing with it - what you don't do is start naming and shaming - it all feels very vigilante-like." The Sun didn't insert the word vigilante, it's a quote | |||
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"Beggars are not homeless and it's illegal. I've seen very old (possibly Romanian) people begging in pouring rain. They sit in the same spot and alternate daily, regardless of the weather. They have a home they should be sitting in. " Firstly, Roma gypsies are not from Romania. The ones in UK and Ireland are from France. They are actually originally from India. It's unfortunate the UK and Ireland mistakes them for Romanian due to "roma" and "romani" being a lot like Romanian, and Romania having a lot of them too (but less than france). You literally wouldn't be able to tell a romanian from a UK person. Also The roma will beat local homeless people up for a profitable spot. Every time you see one in a spot, a local person probably got a kicking. They make a lot of money from begging and take the profitable spots and sit in them non stop. They can also be really aggressive to people like women on their own. They shouldnt be allowed beg. | |||
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"Number of people commenting after having read the article: 3 Still 3 Put a link to a uncorrupt, non asshole of a paper (if there is such a thing ) and that number would go up
Dont read or buy the Sun.
However a better article is in the BBC need web site and a bit of searching shows up other stuff too.
Unfortunately it’s not possible to post links in here.
Professional begging is a national issue and is often controlled by criminal gangs. So the people who suffer are the real homeless ones.
The point is people are commenting without checking the facts. "This.. There are people with roofs over their heads borrowing dogs, putting on old clothes and making in the right spot in excess of £100 a day.. Then going home to a warm bed.. It's right that their behaviour and those of the organised gangs who control certain patches with violence is highlighted.. Genuine needs yes but exploitation of people's generosity is as wrong as a conman ripping off an op for not needed and not completed repairs.. | |||
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"Maybe the genuine homeless should out these beggers who disapear at the end of a begging shift,jump back in their cars and drive home" Last Christmas eve, half an hour before closing, we were in M&S food hall looking for a last minute bargain and a homeless/beggar, shoved everyone aside with his trolley shouting for people to get out of his way. I couldn't see what was in his trolley, but it struck me as ironical that a beggar shopped in M&S at all,as even when the bargains were out, they weren't as cheap as any one of the cheaper supermarkets and if he were homeless, some of the food would be tricky to cook. | |||
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"Maybe the genuine homeless should out these beggers who disapear at the end of a begging shift,jump back in their cars and drive home Last Christmas eve, half an hour before closing, we were in M&S food hall looking for a last minute bargain and a homeless/beggar, shoved everyone aside with his trolley shouting for people to get out of his way. I couldn't see what was in his trolley, but it struck me as ironical that a beggar shopped in M&S at all,as even when the bargains were out, they weren't as cheap as any one of the cheaper supermarkets and if he were homeless, some of the food would be tricky to cook. " Jeez | |||
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"Number of people commenting after having read the article: 3 Still 3 Put a link to a uncorrupt, non asshole of a paper (if there is such a thing ) and that number would go up
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-devon-43210305
Mr Sims, the evil vigilante who was motivated to help the guinely homeless took 17 photos and found that 15 of them were con artists.
Since people are jumping to the defence of the con artists, 18 of them had been found to beat up that actual homeless, who reduce their profits "Unfortunately I can't get that link to come up with any results.. | |||
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"Number of people commenting after having read the article: 3 Still 3 Put a link to a uncorrupt, non asshole of a paper (if there is such a thing ) and that number would go up
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-devon-43210305
Mr Sims, the evil vigilante who was motivated to help the guinely homeless took 17 photos and found that 15 of them were con artists.
Since people are jumping to the defence of the con artists, 18 of them had been found to beat up that actual homeless, who reduce their profits
Unfortunately I can't get that link to come up with any results.."Google the headline: Torquay photo-shaming 'reduced beggar numbers' | |||
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" Google the headline: Torquay photo-shaming 'reduced beggar numbers'" Cheers found it...but for me I still don't think it is the right way to deal with it after reading that slant on it. Yes I know you will say it has removed the non genuine homeless but as nit a said above...a lot of people are not roofless but they are still vulnerable with no way of getting work..probably not getting benefits due to above. It is a lot more complex then taking pictures of people and frightening them away...and yes I know some will be professional beggers but it still leaves a nasty taste to me. | |||
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" Google the headline: Torquay photo-shaming 'reduced beggar numbers' Cheers found it...but for me I still don't think it is the right way to deal with it after reading that slant on it. Yes I know you will say it has removed the non genuine homeless but as nit a said above...a lot of people are not roofless but they are still vulnerable with no way of getting work..probably not getting benefits due to above. It is a lot more complex then taking pictures of people and frightening them away...and yes I know some will be professional beggers but it still leaves a nasty taste to me." Do you prefer the status quo where con artists were beating up genuine homeless people to take their spots? At least this guy was doing something that had a net positive effect. He wasn't doing it because he was bored, he found that it had gotten to the point where there were more con artists than actual homeless people, which was in turn further destroying the lives of those genuinely homeless. Nobody else stepped forward to help them not get the shit kicked out of them. | |||
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" Google the headline: Torquay photo-shaming 'reduced beggar numbers' Cheers found it...but for me I still don't think it is the right way to deal with it after reading that slant on it. Yes I know you will say it has removed the non genuine homeless but as nit a said above...a lot of people are not roofless but they are still vulnerable with no way of getting work..probably not getting benefits due to above. It is a lot more complex then taking pictures of people and frightening them away...and yes I know some will be professional beggers but it still leaves a nasty taste to me." Have you a better suggestion on how to solve the problem of these conmen / false beggars? They are being polite, respectful and pro active which is actually helping the homeless. | |||
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ". "Well if we put your dellusions to one side and look at some informed opinions and research, then according to transparency international- the UK is the 8th least corrupt country in the world. Hardly fits with the conspiracy theory you've just painted. | |||
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" Google the headline: Torquay photo-shaming 'reduced beggar numbers' Cheers found it...but for me I still don't think it is the right way to deal with it after reading that slant on it. Yes I know you will say it has removed the non genuine homeless but as nit a said above...a lot of people are not roofless but they are still vulnerable with no way of getting work..probably not getting benefits due to above. It is a lot more complex then taking pictures of people and frightening them away...and yes I know some will be professional beggers but it still leaves a nasty taste to me. Do you prefer the status quo where con artists were beating up genuine homeless people to take their spots? At least this guy was doing something that had a net positive effect. He wasn't doing it because he was bored, he found that it had gotten to the point where there were more con artists than actual homeless people, which was in turn further destroying the lives of those genuinely homeless. Nobody else stepped forward to help them not get the shit kicked out of them." The only thing is "phil" who was genuinely homeless and the only homeless person to speak on it...said he thought the scheme was like bullying! So we're do we get the facts from that all this beating up of the homeless is really happening? | |||
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" Google the headline: Torquay photo-shaming 'reduced beggar numbers' Cheers found it...but for me I still don't think it is the right way to deal with it after reading that slant on it. Yes I know you will say it has removed the non genuine homeless but as nit a said above...a lot of people are not roofless but they are still vulnerable with no way of getting work..probably not getting benefits due to above. It is a lot more complex then taking pictures of people and frightening them away...and yes I know some will be professional beggers but it still leaves a nasty taste to me. Do you prefer the status quo where con artists were beating up genuine homeless people to take their spots? At least this guy was doing something that had a net positive effect. He wasn't doing it because he was bored, he found that it had gotten to the point where there were more con artists than actual homeless people, which was in turn further destroying the lives of those genuinely homeless. Nobody else stepped forward to help them not get the shit kicked out of them. The only thing is "phil" who was genuinely homeless and the only homeless person to speak on it...said he thought the scheme was like bullying! So we're do we get the facts from that all this beating up of the homeless is really happening?" The photographic evidence and crime stats. I guess phil prefers being beaten up. | |||
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ".
Well if we put your dellusions to one side and look at some informed opinions and research, then according to transparency international- the UK is the 8th least corrupt country in the world. Hardly fits with the conspiracy theory you've just painted. "Of course there was no banking crisis there is no aggressive tax evasion and no politicians ever claimed something fraudulently. The view through your rose tinted glasses out through your anus must be beautiful.However it's not a conspiracy if it actually happend and happens today. But hey the beggar is the real thief in society.I feel im in Monty python sketch.. | |||
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"Vulnerable?
you dont think homeless people are vulnerable?". We're getting an awful lot more vulnerable than we used to be for some reason | |||
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ". ". If they could beat up millionaires they would, alas they can afford big gates and cars and stuff.. Give it time though | |||
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ".
Well if we put your dellusions to one side and look at some informed opinions and research, then according to transparency international- the UK is the 8th least corrupt country in the world. Hardly fits with the conspiracy theory you've just painted. "I think it's a reasonable presentation of how many operate - though we may rank well, compared to others, it doesn't mean that the £billions not being paid by corporations for example, nor the prior conservative politicians claiming expenses for moats etc, aren't party to an abuse of the system, failing the greater masses. Of course, we can't forget the banking crisis, where the country bailed out inept and corrupt banking, despite the obvious lack of people being jailed, which is within recent memory. | |||
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ". .
If they could beat up millionaires they would, alas they can afford big gates and cars and stuff.. Give it time though "I've missed you Dave...  | |||
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ".
Well if we put your dellusions to one side and look at some informed opinions and research, then according to transparency international- the UK is the 8th least corrupt country in the world. Hardly fits with the conspiracy theory you've just painted.
Of course there was no banking crisis there is no aggressive tax evasion and no politicians ever claimed something fraudulently.
The view through your rose tinted glasses out through your anus must be beautiful.However it's not a conspiracy if it actually happend and happens today.
But hey the beggar is the real thief in society.I feel im in Monty python sketch.. "Indeed. It's bleeding obvious that far more money is stolen by those who commit tax fraud than people who pretend to be beggars. | |||
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ".
Well if we put your dellusions to one side and look at some informed opinions and research, then according to transparency international- the UK is the 8th least corrupt country in the world. Hardly fits with the conspiracy theory you've just painted.
Of course there was no banking crisis there is no aggressive tax evasion and no politicians ever claimed something fraudulently.
The view through your rose tinted glasses out through your anus must be beautiful.However it's not a conspiracy if it actually happend and happens today.
But hey the beggar is the real thief in society.I feel im in Monty python sketch.. "Yeah who needs facts when you have opinions. You can always spot the marxists because they take a few anecdotes and extrapolate it out to "let's burn it all down" | |||
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ". .
If they could beat up millionaires they would, alas they can afford big gates and cars and stuff.. Give it time though
I've missed you Dave... ". I'm just here to hug a hoodie | |||
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ".
Well if we put your dellusions to one side and look at some informed opinions and research, then according to transparency international- the UK is the 8th least corrupt country in the world. Hardly fits with the conspiracy theory you've just painted.
Of course there was no banking crisis there is no aggressive tax evasion and no politicians ever claimed something fraudulently.
The view through your rose tinted glasses out through your anus must be beautiful.However it's not a conspiracy if it actually happend and happens today.
But hey the beggar is the real thief in society.I feel im in Monty python sketch..
Indeed. It's bleeding obvious that far more money is stolen by those who commit tax fraud than people who pretend to be beggars. "Socialists don't care about the poor, they just hate the rich - George Orwell | |||
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"So a group of vigilantes have start targeting beggers in torbay and outing them for not being homeless...see link to the sun article (I know the sun ) https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5680222/torbay-homeless-campaign-fake-begging/
But what's your thoughts on this...is it targeting the vulnerable. ..or do you agree with this?"any form of 'Lynch Mob" should be quelled immediately regardless of the reason | |||
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ".
Well if we put your dellusions to one side and look at some informed opinions and research, then according to transparency international- the UK is the 8th least corrupt country in the world. Hardly fits with the conspiracy theory you've just painted.
Of course there was no banking crisis there is no aggressive tax evasion and no politicians ever claimed something fraudulently.
The view through your rose tinted glasses out through your anus must be beautiful.However it's not a conspiracy if it actually happend and happens today.
But hey the beggar is the real thief in society.I feel im in Monty python sketch..
Indeed. It's bleeding obvious that far more money is stolen by those who commit tax fraud than people who pretend to be beggars.
Socialists don't care about the poor, they just hate the rich - George Orwell"I can't recall that quote. Where is it from. What Orwell did advocate was " red militias being billeted inhe Ritz" see the Lion and the Unicorn 1941 And said in a column in the left wing weekly Tribune in 1947. "the tories always used to be called the stupid party, but some of today's tories are quite intelligent and when tories start getting intelligent it's time to start feeling for your watch and counting your small change" He also called his dog Marx. | |||
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ".
Well if we put your dellusions to one side and look at some informed opinions and research, then according to transparency international- the UK is the 8th least corrupt country in the world. Hardly fits with the conspiracy theory you've just painted.
Of course there was no banking crisis there is no aggressive tax evasion and no politicians ever claimed something fraudulently.
The view through your rose tinted glasses out through your anus must be beautiful.However it's not a conspiracy if it actually happend and happens today.
But hey the beggar is the real thief in society.I feel im in Monty python sketch..
Indeed. It's bleeding obvious that far more money is stolen by those who commit tax fraud than people who pretend to be beggars.
Socialists don't care about the poor, they just hate the rich - George Orwell"Claims to be all about facts, not opinions. Responds to a factual statement (that more is lost to tax fraud than stolen by beggars) with someone else's opinion. | |||
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ".
Well if we put your dellusions to one side and look at some informed opinions and research, then according to transparency international- the UK is the 8th least corrupt country in the world. Hardly fits with the conspiracy theory you've just painted.
Of course there was no banking crisis there is no aggressive tax evasion and no politicians ever claimed something fraudulently.
The view through your rose tinted glasses out through your anus must be beautiful.However it's not a conspiracy if it actually happend and happens today.
But hey the beggar is the real thief in society.I feel im in Monty python sketch..
Indeed. It's bleeding obvious that far more money is stolen by those who commit tax fraud than people who pretend to be beggars.
Socialists don't care about the poor, they just hate the rich - George Orwell
I can't recall that quote. Where is it from.
What Orwell did advocate was
" red militias being billeted inhe Ritz" see the Lion and the Unicorn 1941
And said in a column in the left wing weekly Tribune in 1947. "the tories always used to be called the stupid party, but some of today's tories are quite intelligent and when tories start getting intelligent it's time to start feeling for your watch and counting your small change"
He also called his dog Marx.
"The road to wigan pier | |||
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ".
Well if we put your dellusions to one side and look at some informed opinions and research, then according to transparency international- the UK is the 8th least corrupt country in the world. Hardly fits with the conspiracy theory you've just painted.
Of course there was no banking crisis there is no aggressive tax evasion and no politicians ever claimed something fraudulently.
The view through your rose tinted glasses out through your anus must be beautiful.However it's not a conspiracy if it actually happend and happens today.
But hey the beggar is the real thief in society.I feel im in Monty python sketch..
Yeah who needs facts when you have opinions. You can always spot the marxists because they take a few anecdotes and extrapolate it out to "let's burn it all down" "I can hand on heart say i've never read Marx.I left school at 16 with no qualifications worth mentioning. Is like when you say. " I voted leave" you are a card carrying a member of the KKK. Any dissent against capitalists institutions and your a commie bastard. The extrapolation seems to be your thing though. 
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ".
Well if we put your dellusions to one side and look at some informed opinions and research, then according to transparency international- the UK is the 8th least corrupt country in the world. Hardly fits with the conspiracy theory you've just painted.
Of course there was no banking crisis there is no aggressive tax evasion and no politicians ever claimed something fraudulently.
The view through your rose tinted glasses out through your anus must be beautiful.However it's not a conspiracy if it actually happend and happens today.
But hey the beggar is the real thief in society.I feel im in Monty python sketch..
Indeed. It's bleeding obvious that far more money is stolen by those who commit tax fraud than people who pretend to be beggars.
Socialists don't care about the poor, they just hate the rich - George Orwell
I can't recall that quote. Where is it from.
What Orwell did advocate was
" red militias being billeted inhe Ritz" see the Lion and the Unicorn 1941
And said in a column in the left wing weekly Tribune in 1947. "the tories always used to be called the stupid party, but some of today's tories are quite intelligent and when tories start getting intelligent it's time to start feeling for your watch and counting your small change"
He also called his dog Marx.
The road to wigan pier"That's one of my favourite books ever and I have read it about four times. It was the book in which he declared himself a socialist and criticised the way in which some socialists operated. He certainly never criticised all socialists in that blanket manner. Have you read Down and Out in Paris and London? | |||
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ".
Well if we put your dellusions to one side and look at some informed opinions and research, then according to transparency international- the UK is the 8th least corrupt country in the world. Hardly fits with the conspiracy theory you've just painted.
Of course there was no banking crisis there is no aggressive tax evasion and no politicians ever claimed something fraudulently.
The view through your rose tinted glasses out through your anus must be beautiful.However it's not a conspiracy if it actually happend and happens today.
But hey the beggar is the real thief in society.I feel im in Monty python sketch..
Yeah who needs facts when you have opinions. You can always spot the marxists because they take a few anecdotes and extrapolate it out to "let's burn it all down"
I can hand on heart say i've never read Marx.I left school at 16 with no qualifications worth mentioning.
Is like when you say.
" I voted leave" you are a card carrying a member of the KKK.
Any dissent against capitalists institutions and your a commie bastard.
The extrapolation seems to be your thing though.
"Have you travelled much since you left school? Found lot's of countries with less corruption than the UK on your trips? | |||
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ".
Well if we put your dellusions to one side and look at some informed opinions and research, then according to transparency international- the UK is the 8th least corrupt country in the world. Hardly fits with the conspiracy theory you've just painted.
Of course there was no banking crisis there is no aggressive tax evasion and no politicians ever claimed something fraudulently.
The view through your rose tinted glasses out through your anus must be beautiful.However it's not a conspiracy if it actually happend and happens today.
But hey the beggar is the real thief in society.I feel im in Monty python sketch..
Indeed. It's bleeding obvious that far more money is stolen by those who commit tax fraud than people who pretend to be beggars.
Socialists don't care about the poor, they just hate the rich - George Orwell
I can't recall that quote. Where is it from.
What Orwell did advocate was
" red militias being billeted inhe Ritz" see the Lion and the Unicorn 1941
And said in a column in the left wing weekly Tribune in 1947. "the tories always used to be called the stupid party, but some of today's tories are quite intelligent and when tories start getting intelligent it's time to start feeling for your watch and counting your small change"
He also called his dog Marx.
The road to wigan pier
That's one of my favourite books ever and I have read it about four times. It was the book in which he declared himself a socialist and criticised the way in which some socialists operated. He certainly never criticised all socialists in that blanket manner.
Have you read Down and Out in Paris and London? "I confess i have not. What i said was a condensed version of the full quote, found in chapter 11: "The truth is that, to many people calling themselves Socialists, revolution does not mean a movement of the masses with which they hope to associate themselves; it means a set of reforms which 'we', the clever ones, are going to impose upon 'them', the Lower Orders. On the other hand, it would be a mistake to regard the book-trained Socialist as a bloodless creature entirely incapable of emotion. Though seldom giving much evidence of affection for the exploited, he is perfectly capable of displaying hatred—a sort of queer, theoretical, in vacuo hatred—against the exploiters." | |||
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ".
Well if we put your dellusions to one side and look at some informed opinions and research, then according to transparency international- the UK is the 8th least corrupt country in the world. Hardly fits with the conspiracy theory you've just painted.
Of course there was no banking crisis there is no aggressive tax evasion and no politicians ever claimed something fraudulently.
The view through your rose tinted glasses out through your anus must be beautiful.However it's not a conspiracy if it actually happend and happens today.
But hey the beggar is the real thief in society.I feel im in Monty python sketch..
Indeed. It's bleeding obvious that far more money is stolen by those who commit tax fraud than people who pretend to be beggars.
Socialists don't care about the poor, they just hate the rich - George Orwell
I can't recall that quote. Where is it from.
What Orwell did advocate was
" red militias being billeted inhe Ritz" see the Lion and the Unicorn 1941
And said in a column in the left wing weekly Tribune in 1947. "the tories always used to be called the stupid party, but some of today's tories are quite intelligent and when tories start getting intelligent it's time to start feeling for your watch and counting your small change"
He also called his dog Marx.
The road to wigan pier
That's one of my favourite books ever and I have read it about four times. It was the book in which he declared himself a socialist and criticised the way in which some socialists operated. He certainly never criticised all socialists in that blanket manner.
Have you read Down and Out in Paris and London?
I confess i have not. What i said was a condensed version of the full quote, found in chapter 11:
"The truth is that, to many people calling themselves Socialists, revolution does not mean a movement of the masses with which they hope to associate themselves; it means a set of reforms which 'we', the clever ones, are going to impose upon 'them', the Lower Orders. On the other hand, it would be a mistake to regard the book-trained Socialist as a bloodless creature entirely incapable of emotion. Though seldom giving much evidence of affection for the exploited, he is perfectly capable of displaying hatred—a sort of queer, theoretical, in vacuo hatred—against the exploiters."
"Yep, he's talking about the minority of "booked trained socialists". In 1937 when he was writing, the vast majority in the Labour and Communist parties were non booked trained working class people. Of course, Orwell himself was a "booked trained socialist" and a bit of a tendency to romanticise the more "pure" working class socialists. It's always slightly amusing when people pick Orwell to make anti socialist arguments. They assume his anti Stalinism equals anti socialism. It doesn't. He was something of a Marxist and remained a left wing socialist until his death. He certainly stood to the left of the post war Labour government. He was literary editor of Tribune and often moaned about the government's timidity. | |||
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ".
Well if we put your dellusions to one side and look at some informed opinions and research, then according to transparency international- the UK is the 8th least corrupt country in the world. Hardly fits with the conspiracy theory you've just painted.
Of course there was no banking crisis there is no aggressive tax evasion and no politicians ever claimed something fraudulently.
The view through your rose tinted glasses out through your anus must be beautiful.However it's not a conspiracy if it actually happend and happens today.
But hey the beggar is the real thief in society.I feel im in Monty python sketch..
Yeah who needs facts when you have opinions. You can always spot the marxists because they take a few anecdotes and extrapolate it out to "let's burn it all down"
I can hand on heart say i've never read Marx.I left school at 16 with no qualifications worth mentioning.
Is like when you say.
" I voted leave" you are a card carrying a member of the KKK.
Any dissent against capitalists institutions and your a commie bastard.
The extrapolation seems to be your thing though.
Have you travelled much since you left school? Found lot's of countries with less corruption than the UK on your trips? "I've traveled most of this little blue ball and yes you can't even buy a train ticket in some countries without bribing the guy in the ticket booth.Its endemic. The beggar in any society is never the real thief.The immigrant is never the reason you are poor. The thieves which make you poor wear suits and get driven by chauffeurs. | |||
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"In a country that is rife with corrupt officials and politicians claiming all sorts and multi national corporations avoiding tax and bankers ruining the country and you can persuade the average citizen it's the beggar that's the thief and fake.. All I can say is "Well fucking played! ".
Well if we put your dellusions to one side and look at some informed opinions and research, then according to transparency international- the UK is the 8th least corrupt country in the world. Hardly fits with the conspiracy theory you've just painted.
Of course there was no banking crisis there is no aggressive tax evasion and no politicians ever claimed something fraudulently.
The view through your rose tinted glasses out through your anus must be beautiful.However it's not a conspiracy if it actually happend and happens today.
But hey the beggar is the real thief in society.I feel im in Monty python sketch..
Indeed. It's bleeding obvious that far more money is stolen by those who commit tax fraud than people who pretend to be beggars.
Socialists don't care about the poor, they just hate the rich - George Orwell
I can't recall that quote. Where is it from.
What Orwell did advocate was
" red militias being billeted inhe Ritz" see the Lion and the Unicorn 1941
And said in a column in the left wing weekly Tribune in 1947. "the tories always used to be called the stupid party, but some of today's tories are quite intelligent and when tories start getting intelligent it's time to start feeling for your watch and counting your small change"
He also called his dog Marx.
The road to wigan pier
That's one of my favourite books ever and I have read it about four times. It was the book in which he declared himself a socialist and criticised the way in which some socialists operated. He certainly never criticised all socialists in that blanket manner.
Have you read Down and Out in Paris and London?
I confess i have not. What i said was a condensed version of the full quote, found in chapter 11:
"The truth is that, to many people calling themselves Socialists, revolution does not mean a movement of the masses with which they hope to associate themselves; it means a set of reforms which 'we', the clever ones, are going to impose upon 'them', the Lower Orders. On the other hand, it would be a mistake to regard the book-trained Socialist as a bloodless creature entirely incapable of emotion. Though seldom giving much evidence of affection for the exploited, he is perfectly capable of displaying hatred—a sort of queer, theoretical, in vacuo hatred—against the exploiters."
Yep, he's talking about the minority of "booked trained socialists". In 1937 when he was writing, the vast majority in the Labour and Communist parties were non booked trained working class people.
Of course, Orwell himself was a "booked trained socialist" and a bit of a tendency to romanticise the more "pure" working class socialists.
It's always slightly amusing when people pick Orwell to make anti socialist arguments. They assume his anti Stalinism equals anti socialism. It doesn't. He was something of a Marxist and remained a left wing socialist until his death. He certainly stood to the left of the post war Labour government. He was literary editor of Tribune and often moaned about the government's timidity. "Because it's never "real socialism / marxism / communism" is it | |||
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I also know John Hamblin quoted. Begging is an issue especially when it moves into intimidation and other criminal acts. There is a right way of dealing with it though, and whilst I appreciate the intent of the “vigilante” may be to try and eradicate an antisocial issue, it’s not his role to do so and I wonder a little if he would always know the background of those he outs etc - I have encountered (not in that area as my work area is London) a number of professional beggars who yes, aren’t genuinely homeless in terms of rough sleeping, but are in enforced “employment” by gangs which is actually a modern slavery safeguarding issue. Where gangs hold their documentation and monies and/or family members and they have a target of money to bring in to keep “safe”.
Those in this situation are homeless in terms of not having a safe, secure, individual tenancy and would be deemed vulnerable and in need of support. Yes, there are others who may be safe and secure and making a fast buck, but I wonder if we step back for a moment what the reality of that being your choice of living really means and would surmise there is still an individual there in need of some level of support to realise a healthier and more productive future for themselves, first off addressing antisocial and criminal behaviour in the correct manner. There are also numbers of genuinely homeless (if you like to term rough sleepers alone as homeless, and I tend to personally use the FEANTSA ETHOS broader definitions of homelessness) people who do beg too as they are destitute and trying to “survive” as best they can, be that through trying to get some money for a shelter, food or for a hit or drink to escape reality for a short time.
Vigilantes should perhaps look at what their motives are and channel their energy into supporting the legal methods for addressing their concern or campaigning for policy change to do so. | |||
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"That Orwell quote is also not a direct quote, it's paraphrasing a larger argument and losing a lot of nuance in the process." . That nuance is very vulnerable | |||
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"So to all those who think it’s wrong to out the less than genuine beggars , the ones who are stealing from the genuine beggars , what should be done to deter them ? Are we really saying it’s ok to let them carry on ? "For ease, I’ve c&p’d from a local org I know: “- When someone begs from you, look them in the eye when you respond and speak as confidently as you can. - If you have time, stop and talk with them. Ask them their first name and share yours. - If you have the time and money, offer to buy them a cup of tea, or a sandwich or pasty. - Do some work to find out what drop-in centres, charities or churches are open for homeless or vulnerable people in the area where you live or work. Knowing what is available allows you to ask the person if they know about these and whether they have used them. - If you are worried about the vulnerability of someone sleeping rough then contact Street Link on 0300 500 0914 to inform them. This is a coordinated phone line to help inform the Outreach teams who work on the streets to help homeless people. (Street Link is London based, check local area’s outreach response teams from local authority or charity info)” “Some will say there are better ways to help people who are genuinely homeless, including volunteering or donating money to one of the homelessness charities in the city. The last sentence is the crux of the whole issue. The prevailing wisdom is that if you want to help the homeless you’re better doing it through one of the charities who work with them directly – in that way you know you’re not just fuelling someone’s addiction. Here’s an anecdote for you, from 20-odd years ago. I am in, I think, Manchester, and stop to toss a handful of change into a small cardboard box set out by a beggar. “Don’t spend it all on Special Brew!” I quip frivolously. He looks at me. “I probably will. It’ll be the only thing that’ll get me through the night.” It was a brief exchange, but one I never forgot. I still wrestle with the conundrum. Addiction to alcohol and drugs is bad, is terrible. No one wants to encourage that. But what if he was right? What if he’s so alcohol-dependent that he can’t live without it? What if he’s not got access to help? What if I don’t give him the money? Where will he get it from? What might he do? Many people who work for homeless charities still do give money to beggars on the street. But why, when we’re told we shouldn’t? Because often it does make a difference, it can determine whether someone eats that day or not, or it can be the extra £2 needed to get a room that night, or even sanitary products - you just never know the situation. However, it doesn’t just make a difference physically, it makes a difference mentally and emotionally. It makes those begging feel noticed and not invisible, and cared for, even for a split second. And this can make a world of difference. But they’re just going to blow it on drugs and booze, aren’t they? This is a huge stigma, and is seen all the time. People refusing to give monetary donations due to assuming it will go on drugs and alcohol. Though this may be the case for some people, it is unfair to tarnish everyone with the same brush.” Do what feels right to you. Give or don’t give. If you witness intimidating behaviour or aggressive begging, call the police. If you suspect someone to be a professional beggar, call the police. But perhaps remember that people are human and perhaps, just perhaps you don’t know the full story of their situation so if you’re that passionate about doing more than engaging or using legal means to report, then get involved. Volunteer your time. Go to council meetings. Speak to local charities. Above all else treat everyone with respect even if perhaps someone else is struggling to be able to do that themselves. | |||
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"So to all those who think it’s wrong to out the less than genuine beggars , the ones who are stealing from the genuine beggars , what should be done to deter them ? Are we really saying it’s ok to let them carry on ? "Perhaps that's what the police and justice system are for....not "vigilantes". I stop sometimes offer drinks food even cash to street people. I talk with them. Most are sad ill lost in some way... I would rather give to them and risk being "conned" than ever walk by knowing I could maybe help in a small way...and failing to do so. | |||
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"Having actually worked on the streets helping homeless and destitute there are some yes who are dropped off in cars to be by organised gangs but they are people who more often than not are incredibly vulnerable, trapped in a country promised to be good to them, no way of getting home, perhaps too ashamed or unable to go home, often living in massively overcrowded properties getting a very small portion of any money they have made and quite often being beaten for not bringing in enough money, too scared to ask for help often no English to ask even if they thought they could, offer up someone food if you can but if someone wants money to buy a can or a bag ? Why not ? If you had to sleep on the street I’m sure I know what would see me through the night easier ! " Yes. The Modern Slavery Helpline (google will aid) is the action to take if you need to report this type of concern. | |||
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"Why can't we see that we make our own path in life and yes people hit hard times but is that self inflicted in some cases ?.so why expect the hard working tax payer to help them again !.it seems that if you work pay your bills keep out of trouble your though less of !.may be a cruel to be kind attitude would be good .dont give people money for not working .give them money to top there wage up when they work ??" I think you need to change your username. | |||
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"Why can't we see that we make our own path in life and yes people hit hard times but is that self inflicted in some cases ?.so why expect the hard working tax payer to help them again !.it seems that if you work pay your bills keep out of trouble your though less of !.may be a cruel to be kind attitude would be good .dont give people money for not working .give them money to top there wage up when they work ?? I think you need to change your username." | |||
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"Why can't we see that we make our own path in life and yes people hit hard times but is that self inflicted in some cases ?.so why expect the hard working tax payer to help them again !.it seems that if you work pay your bills keep out of trouble your though less of !.may be a cruel to be kind attitude would be good .dont give people money for not working .give them money to top there wage up when they work ?? I think you need to change your username." yup!! its an eyeopener seeing quite how many people have such broken moral compasses...sad, and shaming.. | |||
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"Why can't we see that we make our own path in life and yes people hit hard times but is that self inflicted in some cases ?.so why expect the hard working tax payer to help them again !.it seems that if you work pay your bills keep out of trouble your though less of !.may be a cruel to be kind attitude would be good .dont give people money for not working .give them money to top there wage up when they work ?? I think you need to change your username. yup!! its an eyeopener seeing quite how many people have such broken moral compasses...sad, and shaming.." Maybe if we advocate not making judgements about others then we should do that with everyone? Picking on potential semantics of someone’s post rather than clarifying their meaning seems a tad harsh. The above post doesn’t warrant challenges to someone’s username, endorsement of that and preaching about their lack of moral compass, in my opinion. There’s something in a “cruel to be kind approach” which is simply a turn of phrase and might be simply advocating not giving money which many charities advocate too - and we all know policy change to working tax credit thresholds and implementation could do with some work to alleviate those who suffer “in work” poverty and literally get up each day to go out and work and earn their poverty. I think that alienating different opinions where there could be consensus through discussion only serves to support the systematic issue of everyone battling for themselves rather than uniting and supporting each other, which I presume is actually what those picking on this chap’s post probably advocate anyway. | |||
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"Why can't we see that we make our own path in life and yes people hit hard times but is that self inflicted in some cases ?.so why expect the hard working tax payer to help them again !.it seems that if you work pay your bills keep out of trouble your though less of !.may be a cruel to be kind attitude would be good .dont give people money for not working .give them money to top there wage up when they work ?? I think you need to change your username. yup!! its an eyeopener seeing quite how many people have such broken moral compasses...sad, and shaming.." . There's no such thing as morals and certainly no such thing as a moral compass, well unless you read a lot of blogs, they'll have you believing all sorts of bollocks | |||
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"Some might say 50+ women wanting and looking for 25 year old men, well there looking for the vulnerable young men in society, the type that might be influenced by an older woman on here, plied into fucking a woman they really wouldn't in an everyday situation..I mean sure I think they've got free will and the decisions they make are their own and that sometimes we make bad decisions which are part of the learning process of life , but... "Dave, are you entertaining yourself perchance? | |||
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"Some might say 50+ women wanting and looking for 25 year old men, well there looking for the vulnerable young men in society, the type that might be influenced by an older woman on here, plied into fucking a woman they really wouldn't in an everyday situation..I mean sure I think they've got free will and the decisions they make are their own and that sometimes we make bad decisions which are part of the learning process of life , but... "What about the 25 yr old men looking for vulnerable 50+ women who will be seduced into fucking a younger man, they wouldn't look at in the real world? | |||
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"Some might say 50+ women wanting and looking for 25 year old men, well there looking for the vulnerable young men in society, the type that might be influenced by an older woman on here, plied into fucking a woman they really wouldn't in an everyday situation..I mean sure I think they've got free will and the decisions they make are their own and that sometimes we make bad decisions which are part of the learning process of life , but...
What about the 25 yr old men looking for vulnerable 50+ women who will be seduced into fucking a younger man, they wouldn't look at in the real world? "Hit a nerve, Brain?   | |||
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"Some might say 50+ women wanting and looking for 25 year old men, well there looking for the vulnerable young men in society, the type that might be influenced by an older woman on here, plied into fucking a woman they really wouldn't in an everyday situation..I mean sure I think they've got free will and the decisions they make are their own and that sometimes we make bad decisions which are part of the learning process of life , but...
What about the 25 yr old men looking for vulnerable 50+ women who will be seduced into fucking a younger man, they wouldn't look at in the real world?
Hit a nerve, Brain? "Those bloody 25 years olds, preying on us vulnerable old women | |||
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"For evil to thrive all it takes is for good men and women to do nothing. Said vigilantes should perhaps trying sleeping rough in winter.... Don't those two statements contradict each other? Some people have identified a problem and done something... I also have not read the article, but from this thread it looks like reasonable action was taken." As I posted that comment up near the top of the thread and you have only partially quoted it I see no dichotomy. If you wish to misquote me and then comment on a misquote then I suggest you explain yourself more fully. Particularly as my comments were specifically about "vigilantes". | |||
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"For evil to thrive all it takes is for good men and women to do nothing. Said vigilantes should perhaps trying sleeping rough in winter.... Don't those two statements contradict each other? Some people have identified a problem and done something... I also have not read the article, but from this thread it looks like reasonable action was taken. As I posted that comment up near the top of the thread and you have only partially quoted it I see no dichotomy. If you wish to misquote me and then comment on a misquote then I suggest you explain yourself more fully. Particularly as my comments were specifically about "vigilantes". "I cut the quote to the essence of doing nothing is wrong, doing something is wrong. Vigilantes are not always a bad thing. | |||
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" I cut the quote to the essence of doing nothing is wrong, doing something is wrong. Vigilantes are not always a bad thing." Can you give me an example of when a vigilante has been a good thing in history? A vigilante being someone/someones acting in a law enforcement capacity (or in the pursuit of self-perceived justice) without legal authority. Taking action to change or campaign for change in systems being something different. | |||
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"We should hunt down those vigilantes and sort them out!!! "From what I've read on the net in the last few days some will be hunting the vigilantes and naming and shaming those who harass the homeless. | |||
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"Will offer to buy some warm food or drink if circumstances dictate. Sorts the needy from the not so needy " Actually the best thing to do is contact streetlink.org.uk Ideally a rough sleeper should be pointed in the direction of the nearest soup kitchen or shelter as they will not only provide food but access to temporary accommodation and addiction support services. As for those in shelters / temp accommodation / b&b's. They can't actually sit at home during the day, b often they have to leave, with any belongings in the morning and not return back till evening, they are generally not in receipt of benefits as the process takes so long so they end up begging... | |||
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"Will offer to buy some warm food or drink if circumstances dictate. Sorts the needy from the not so needy Actually the best thing to do is contact streetlink.org.uk Ideally a rough sleeper should be pointed in the direction of the nearest soup kitchen or shelter as they will not only provide food but access to temporary accommodation and addiction support services. As for those in shelters / temp accommodation / b&b's. They can't actually sit at home during the day, b often they have to leave, with any belongings in the morning and not return back till evening, they are generally not in receipt of benefits as the process takes so long so they end up begging..." No soup kitchens and night shelter round here. So I will keep doing what I do. I see nothing wrong with a little human kindness like providing someone with a hot drink or food. Thanks though. | |||
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" I cut the quote to the essence of doing nothing is wrong, doing something is wrong. Vigilantes are not always a bad thing. Can you give me an example of when a vigilante has been a good thing in history? A vigilante being someone/someones acting in a law enforcement capacity (or in the pursuit of self-perceived justice) without legal authority. Taking action to change or campaign for change in systems being something different." The term could be applied to every person who has foiled a robbery, made a citizens arrest, or even acted as a witness for the police. Vigilante or hero depends on the popularity of your actions after the event. | |||
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" I cut the quote to the essence of doing nothing is wrong, doing something is wrong. Vigilantes are not always a bad thing. Can you give me an example of when a vigilante has been a good thing in history? A vigilante being someone/someones acting in a law enforcement capacity (or in the pursuit of self-perceived justice) without legal authority. Taking action to change or campaign for change in systems being something different. The term could be applied to every person who has foiled a robbery, made a citizens arrest, or even acted as a witness for the police. Vigilante or hero depends on the popularity of your actions after the event. " I don't think people caught up in a crime are called vigilantes. The term refers to people who go out of their way to apprehend criminals u sanctioned by the police | |||
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"We should hunt down those vigilantes and sort them out!!!
From what I've read on the net in the last few days some will be hunting the vigilantes and naming and shaming those who harass the homeless.
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"Some might say 50+ women wanting and looking for 25 year old men, well there looking for the vulnerable young men in society, the type that might be influenced by an older woman on here, plied into fucking a woman they really wouldn't in an everyday situation..I mean sure I think they've got free will and the decisions they make are their own and that sometimes we make bad decisions which are part of the learning process of life , but...
What about the 25 yr old men looking for vulnerable 50+ women who will be seduced into fucking a younger man, they wouldn't look at in the real world?
Hit a nerve, Brain?
Those bloody 25 years olds, preying on us vulnerable old women ". You could be vulnerable and not know it | |||
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"I think the kindness ive been reading about in Bristol.When hundreds of scarves and wolly hats have been left tied to lamp posts with notes saying "for anyone who is cold".Shows up these vigilantes and restores my faith in humanity.
"A couple of school kids locally have been posting on Facebook if anyone stuck inside needs something, to give them a shout. Explicitly saying they do not want to be paid for doing so. That also made me smile. Slightly off topic, but nice anyway. | |||
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"For evil to thrive all it takes is for good men and women to do nothing. Said vigilantes should perhaps trying sleeping rough in winter.... Don't those two statements contradict each other? Some people have identified a problem and done something... I also have not read the article, but from this thread it looks like reasonable action was taken. As I posted that comment up near the top of the thread and you have only partially quoted it I see no dichotomy. If you wish to misquote me and then comment on a misquote then I suggest you explain yourself more fully. Particularly as my comments were specifically about "vigilantes".
I cut the quote to the essence of doing nothing is wrong, doing something is wrong.
Vigilantes are not always a bad thing."Your opinion is noted. Vigilantes operate outside the law. Do you really consider that not a bad thing? | |||
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"For evil to thrive all it takes is for good men and women to do nothing. Said vigilantes should perhaps trying sleeping rough in winter.... Don't those two statements contradict each other? Some people have identified a problem and done something... I also have not read the article, but from this thread it looks like reasonable action was taken. As I posted that comment up near the top of the thread and you have only partially quoted it I see no dichotomy. If you wish to misquote me and then comment on a misquote then I suggest you explain yourself more fully. Particularly as my comments were specifically about "vigilantes".
I cut the quote to the essence of doing nothing is wrong, doing something is wrong.
Vigilantes are not always a bad thing.
Your opinion is noted.
Vigilantes operate outside the law.
Do you really consider that not a bad thing?". Ooh no they don't, well sometimes | |||
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"For evil to thrive all it takes is for good men and women to do nothing. Said vigilantes should perhaps trying sleeping rough in winter.... Don't those two statements contradict each other? Some people have identified a problem and done something... I also have not read the article, but from this thread it looks like reasonable action was taken. As I posted that comment up near the top of the thread and you have only partially quoted it I see no dichotomy. If you wish to misquote me and then comment on a misquote then I suggest you explain yourself more fully. Particularly as my comments were specifically about "vigilantes".
I cut the quote to the essence of doing nothing is wrong, doing something is wrong.
Vigilantes are not always a bad thing.
Your opinion is noted.
Vigilantes operate outside the law.
Do you really consider that not a bad thing?"Not always, a certain Mr Shindler in Germany operated outside the law, was that bad? Or a Mrs Pankhurst here in the UK? Right and law are only sometimes the same thing. As I understand it from this thread, beggars are being photographed and shown going back to their homes. There is little harm in exposing them, and stopping them sterling resources from the real people in need. | |||
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"For evil to thrive all it takes is for good men and women to do nothing. Said vigilantes should perhaps trying sleeping rough in winter.... Don't those two statements contradict each other? Some people have identified a problem and done something... I also have not read the article, but from this thread it looks like reasonable action was taken. As I posted that comment up near the top of the thread and you have only partially quoted it I see no dichotomy. If you wish to misquote me and then comment on a misquote then I suggest you explain yourself more fully. Particularly as my comments were specifically about "vigilantes".
I cut the quote to the essence of doing nothing is wrong, doing something is wrong.
Vigilantes are not always a bad thing.
Your opinion is noted.
Vigilantes operate outside the law.
Do you really consider that not a bad thing?
Not always, a certain Mr Shindler in Germany operated outside the law, was that bad? Or a Mrs Pankhurst here in the UK?
Right and law are only sometimes the same thing.
As I understand it from this thread, beggars are being photographed and shown going back to their homes. There is little harm in exposing them, and stopping them sterling resources from the real people in need."I think you’re still misusing the term vigilantes. Which I find personally irritating I understand your point but it’s clusily made and I stand by my previous points re the prejudging as to whether these actions are those of vigilantes or heroes - if that’s what you genuinely believe them to be (your words) - and if they are motivated with the same positive intent or in anyway comparable to the circumstances of Schindler or Pankhurst (to use your examples) and whether they *know* the absolute reality of what might be happening to the person they expose (see my examples of those trapped in modern slavery) - I think their actions,
and your blurring of the term’s actual meaning, are actually rather unhelpful at best and a slippery slope of problematic in terms of encouraging practices that you too would (I hope) disapprove of in the name of self-appointed heroship at worst. | |||
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"For evil to thrive all it takes is for good men and women to do nothing. Said vigilantes should perhaps trying sleeping rough in winter.... Don't those two statements contradict each other? Some people have identified a problem and done something... I also have not read the article, but from this thread it looks like reasonable action was taken. As I posted that comment up near the top of the thread and you have only partially quoted it I see no dichotomy. If you wish to misquote me and then comment on a misquote then I suggest you explain yourself more fully. Particularly as my comments were specifically about "vigilantes".
I cut the quote to the essence of doing nothing is wrong, doing something is wrong.
Vigilantes are not always a bad thing.
Your opinion is noted.
Vigilantes operate outside the law.
Do you really consider that not a bad thing?
Not always, a certain Mr Shindler in Germany operated outside the law, was that bad? Or a Mrs Pankhurst here in the UK?
Right and law are only sometimes the same thing.
As I understand it from this thread, beggars are being photographed and shown going back to their homes. There is little harm in exposing them, and stopping them sterling resources from the real people in need.
I think you’re still misusing the term vigilantes. Which I find personally irritating I understand your point but it’s clusily made and I stand by my previous points re the prejudging as to whether these actions are those of vigilantes or heroes - if that’s what you genuinely believe them to be (your words) - and if they are motivated with the same positive intent or in anyway comparable to the circumstances of Schindler or Pankhurst (to use your examples) and whether they *know* the absolute reality of what might be happening to the person they expose (see my examples of those trapped in modern slavery) - I think their actions,
and your blurring of the term’s actual meaning, are actually rather unhelpful at best and a slippery slope of problematic in terms of encouraging practices that you too would (I hope) disapprove of in the name of self-appointed heroship at worst. "Many thanks Blanche. Don't think I could have ever expressed it better. Perhaps the real issue is being lost somewhere in all the Orwellian words can mean what we want them to mean. The weak the dispossessed the modern slaves the homeless deserve more from us than futher victimisation pain hurt and suffering. Vigilantes are not the answer. | |||
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"The south coast attracts all sorts it doesn't bother me they aren't local.Bournemouth council were offer homeless people a one way ticket out to anywhere they called home except where they actually did want to call home.. "Does Bournemouth still have the highest proportion of alcohol and drug addicts on benefits in the UK though? | |||
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"The weak the dispossessed the modern slaves the homeless deserve more from us than futher victimisation pain hurt and suffering. Vigilantes are not the answer. " Let's forget the label vigilante applied by the sun newspaper. And instead look at the activity. If as you suggest these beggars are actually modern slaves, the police and most of the public are allowing it to continue by doing nothing. A few are documenting and tracking the activity which may possibly lead to the police getting interested and prosecuting the slavers. More likely they are on benefits but require further funds for drug habits. So are taking that with the limited amount of good will from the poorest in society, is that right? Or should good people do something about it? My comments were based on the statement that evil thrives when good people do nothing, followed immediately by a statement that those doing something are doing wrong. | |||
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"The south coast attracts all sorts it doesn't bother me they aren't local.Bournemouth council were offer homeless people a one way ticket out to anywhere they called home except where they actually did want to call home..
Does Bournemouth still have the highest proportion of alcohol and drug addicts on benefits in the UK though? "Does it ? I haven't a clue . However If the drug addicts are on benefits I doubt that makes them necessary homeless. | |||
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"The weak the dispossessed the modern slaves the homeless deserve more from us than futher victimisation pain hurt and suffering. Vigilantes are not the answer. Let's forget the label vigilante applied by the sun newspaper. And instead look at the activity. If as you suggest these beggars are actually modern slaves, the police and most of the public are allowing it to continue by doing nothing. A few are documenting and tracking the activity which may possibly lead to the police getting interested and prosecuting the slavers. More likely they are on benefits but require further funds for drug habits. So are taking that with the limited amount of good will from the poorest in society, is that right? Or should good people do something about it? My comments were based on the statement that evil thrives when good people do nothing, followed immediately by a statement that those doing something are doing wrong. " There’s a lot of misinformed assumptions in every part of your post here. From who brought in the term vigilantes in this instance, through to understanding complex trauma, substance misuse issues, to who is deemed the poorest in society, to what *is* being done and the safest ways to address modern slavery and trafficking (refer to the helpline I posted and perhaps read more about the issue) to begging per se and your reframing my earlier post to say I am saying that all of these beggars are within the bounds of modern slavery - refer to my original post if you think I said that, please don’t simplify and thus change my points by doing so. Similarly my points re drug use and your further assumption as to who is or isn’t “good” when you make a starting decision that these are a few good people, how do you know? There’s too much prejudging rather than fact finding and lack of awareness of the potential damage stomping in pretending one is a hero without the full picture, the proper authorities and organisations are trained and educated to know what to do, you and your good people are not. That’s enough of a reason for me. It’s Dunning-Kruger effect in full force, people thinking they know what’s best and blundering I’m with good intent (or is it good intent? Debatable) I haven’t the time to educate you more fully through typing on a mobile with cold fingers - suffice to say I respect your right to your opinion but refute your tenet categorically and completely. | |||
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"The weak the dispossessed the modern slaves the homeless deserve more from us than futher victimisation pain hurt and suffering. Vigilantes are not the answer. Let's forget the label vigilante applied by the sun newspaper. And instead look at the activity. If as you suggest these beggars are actually modern slaves, the police and most of the public are allowing it to continue by doing nothing. A few are documenting and tracking the activity which may possibly lead to the police getting interested and prosecuting the slavers. More likely they are on benefits but require further funds for drug habits. So are taking that with the limited amount of good will from the poorest in society, is that right? Or should good people do something about it? My comments were based on the statement that evil thrives when good people do nothing, followed immediately by a statement that those doing something are doing wrong. " I am making no suggestions or assumptions about the activities of those on the streets for whatever reasons...rather unlike your various prejudicial presumptions throughout this thread and in your latest comment about drugs benefits and taking money from the poorest in society. A rant that you have consistently failed to justify with any evidence to support your assertions. I will simply type this slowly. Vigilantes are not the answer. | |||
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"Blundering in*" Not going to quote your actual post... those interested can scroll up. We are both commenting without actual knowledge or facts. I have no idea if this case as presented is even truth. I also have no knowledge if there is a practice of using slaves to beg to finance slave owners. I do know some actual people who had a flat provided by the council, received benefits from the state, and were actually quite well educated. Chose to go out begging in costume. Because it paid well. Perhaps my posts are down to a guilty conscience as I did nothing to stop it other than argue with them down the pub. Every £1 they took was probably a lot more than £1 that didn't go to a genuine homeless person. And that in my opinion was wrong. | |||
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"Sure it is better to be homeless in the likes of Torbay compared to Manchester but doesn't help local councils cope with their impact" Eh? | |||
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" We are both commenting without actual knowledge or facts. " Untrue. I know a key person within this specific story. I work in this field. This is why I am challenging your misinformed assumptions. | |||
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"I will simply type this slowly. Vigilantes are not the answer." Ok, I will ask this even slower... So, in your opinion, doing nothing is the answer? | |||
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"I will simply type this slowly. Vigilantes are not the answer. Ok, I will ask this even slower... So, in your opinion, doing nothing is the answer? " I know I’m not Hine and I’m sure he’ll make his own answer (and both of you stop with the patronising “slower” stuff, eh ) but you’re assuming again that the vigilantes are the only response happening or the only way to respond. Like it’s a do the vigilante thing or do nothing choice. That’s ridiculous. | |||
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"Lots of arguing about phrasing going on here! I fail to see how the homeless are like slaves. Prisoners however are definitely slaves! But yeah these are such complex issues. Sad to see so many justify not helping their fellow humans because of what they might spend the money on. I used to have the same moral dilemma when giving to people on the streets until I gave it some thought. Then I realised if I'm judging someone, trying to work out whether or not they deserve my pound or not because of their situation, then maybe my motivation is wrong. I should want to help all, not cast judgement on who deserves it. And besides, who am I to say who deserves what? The vigilantes sound dangerous though! Like with all power: those who want it shouldn't have it " Look up what the term Modern Slavery means. | |||
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"Sure it is better to be homeless in the likes of Torbay compared to Manchester but doesn't help local councils cope with their impact Eh?" Local councils underfunded by Central goverment will struggle to find money to pay for "homeless" from other parts of the country | |||
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"I will simply type this slowly. Vigilantes are not the answer. Ok, I will ask this even slower... So, in your opinion, doing nothing is the answer? " Put very simply vigilantes act outside the law. I have never advocated doing nothing. I suggest you go back and read my first post. The little I do may or may not help others. I will never know. However having admitted your total lack of knowledge in this area... your post above... and some level of your personal residual guilt... it may help your case if you become informed before an extended rant. Vigilantes are never the answer! | |||
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"Sure it is better to be homeless in the likes of Torbay compared to Manchester but doesn't help local councils cope with their impact Eh? Local councils underfunded by Central goverment will struggle to find money to pay for "homeless" from other parts of the country " Oh, right. Not sure what you’re advocating re the story. | |||
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"Lots of arguing about phrasing going on here! I fail to see how the homeless are like slaves. Prisoners however are definitely slaves! But yeah these are such complex issues. Sad to see so many justify not helping their fellow humans because of what they might spend the money on. I used to have the same moral dilemma when giving to people on the streets until I gave it some thought. Then I realised if I'm judging someone, trying to work out whether or not they deserve my pound or not because of their situation, then maybe my motivation is wrong. I should want to help all, not cast judgement on who deserves it. And besides, who am I to say who deserves what? The vigilantes sound dangerous though! Like with all power: those who want it shouldn't have it Look up what the term Modern Slavery means. "Why? Is there going to be a picture of a homeless person? Maybe time to put away the shovel now eh? | |||
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"Beggars are not homeless and it's illegal. I've seen very old (possibly Romanian) people begging in pouring rain. They sit in the same spot and alternate daily, regardless of the weather. They have a home they should be sitting in. " This is the kind of ignorant, racist mentality that is wrong with the country, shame on you!disgusting! | |||
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"I will simply type this slowly. Vigilantes are not the answer. Ok, I will ask this even slower... So, in your opinion, doing nothing is the answer? Put very simply vigilantes act outside the law. I have never advocated doing nothing. I suggest you go back and read my first post. The little I do may or may not help others. I will never know. However having admitted your total lack of knowledge in this area... your post above... and some level of your personal residual guilt... it may help your case if you become informed before an extended rant. Vigilantes are never the answer!" What about batman? On a serious note: I applaud some vigilantes. When someone is going against the law to help the less privileged then I'm a supporter. The laws made very rarely help anybody but those at the top and feed the space prison system we have | |||
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"I will simply type this slowly. Vigilantes are not the answer. Ok, I will ask this even slower... So, in your opinion, doing nothing is the answer? I know I’m not Hine and I’m sure he’ll make his own answer (and both of you stop with the patronising “slower” stuff, eh ) but you’re assuming again that the vigilantes are the only response happening or the only way to respond. Like it’s a do the vigilante thing or do nothing choice. That’s ridiculous. "Thanks Blanche. Don't think I will ever get used to calling you that. I do work sometimes in related areas and there are a full range of state semi state and charitable organisations all doing their best to help and protect the homeless and disenfranchised. They act within the law. Vigilantes don't. I said earlier in this thread that perhaps the real issue is being missed. We owe a duty to the weak the hurt the homeless the dispossessed. It's a measure of our humanity. | |||
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"Lots of arguing about phrasing going on here! I fail to see how the homeless are like slaves. Prisoners however are definitely slaves! But yeah these are such complex issues. Sad to see so many justify not helping their fellow humans because of what they might spend the money on. I used to have the same moral dilemma when giving to people on the streets until I gave it some thought. Then I realised if I'm judging someone, trying to work out whether or not they deserve my pound or not because of their situation, then maybe my motivation is wrong. I should want to help all, not cast judgement on who deserves it. And besides, who am I to say who deserves what? The vigilantes sound dangerous though! Like with all power: those who want it shouldn't have it Look up what the term Modern Slavery means.
Why? Is there going to be a picture of a homeless person? Maybe time to put away the shovel now eh?"Oh dear. For a self-professed sapiophile, I’m a bit embarrassed for you. I’ve not said homeless people are slaves, I’ve referenced the Care Act 2014’s definition of abuse term Modern Slavery (and trafficking) as an example of some of the issues in enforced begging cases - it’s not semantics it’s referencing safeguarding issues in the line of work. Bless. | |||
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"I will simply type this slowly. Vigilantes are not the answer. Ok, I will ask this even slower... So, in your opinion, doing nothing is the answer? Put very simply vigilantes act outside the law. I have never advocated doing nothing. I suggest you go back and read my first post. The little I do may or may not help others. I will never know. However having admitted your total lack of knowledge in this area... your post above... and some level of your personal residual guilt... it may help your case if you become informed before an extended rant. Vigilantes are never the answer! What about batman? On a serious note: I applaud some vigilantes. When someone is going against the law to help the less privileged then I'm a supporter. The laws made very rarely help anybody but those at the top and feed the space prison system we have" An example, other than batman? Now I am back to the semantics as this is where language usage is important. | |||
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"Lots of arguing about phrasing going on here! I fail to see how the homeless are like slaves. Prisoners however are definitely slaves! But yeah these are such complex issues. Sad to see so many justify not helping their fellow humans because of what they might spend the money on. I used to have the same moral dilemma when giving to people on the streets until I gave it some thought. Then I realised if I'm judging someone, trying to work out whether or not they deserve my pound or not because of their situation, then maybe my motivation is wrong. I should want to help all, not cast judgement on who deserves it. And besides, who am I to say who deserves what? The vigilantes sound dangerous though! Like with all power: those who want it shouldn't have it Look up what the term Modern Slavery means.
Why? Is there going to be a picture of a homeless person? Maybe time to put away the shovel now eh?
Oh dear. For a self-professed sapiophile, I’m a bit embarrassed for you.
I’ve not said homeless people are slaves, I’ve referenced the Care Act 2014’s definition of abuse term Modern Slavery (and trafficking) as an example of some of the issues in enforced begging cases - it’s not semantics it’s referencing safeguarding issues in the line of work. Bless."Coming from the person who has constantly based an arguement on nothing. "I have work in this area..." then say nothing to how it supports your argument. the only point of mine you drew attention to was that I said I fail to see how homeless peeps are slaves. Again you gave nothing that supports or explains your argument, just asking me to look up what modern slavery is. Yawn... what definition am I gonna get this time I wonder | |||
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"Lots of arguing about phrasing going on here! I fail to see how the homeless are like slaves. Prisoners however are definitely slaves! But yeah these are such complex issues. Sad to see so many justify not helping their fellow humans because of what they might spend the money on. I used to have the same moral dilemma when giving to people on the streets until I gave it some thought. Then I realised if I'm judging someone, trying to work out whether or not they deserve my pound or not because of their situation, then maybe my motivation is wrong. I should want to help all, not cast judgement on who deserves it. And besides, who am I to say who deserves what? The vigilantes sound dangerous though! Like with all power: those who want it shouldn't have it Look up what the term Modern Slavery means.
Why? Is there going to be a picture of a homeless person? Maybe time to put away the shovel now eh?
Oh dear. For a self-professed sapiophile, I’m a bit embarrassed for you.
I’ve not said homeless people are slaves, I’ve referenced the Care Act 2014’s definition of abuse term Modern Slavery (and trafficking) as an example of some of the issues in enforced begging cases - it’s not semantics it’s referencing safeguarding issues in the line of work. Bless.
Coming from the person who has constantly based an arguement on nothing. "I have work in this area..." then say nothing to how it supports your argument.
the only point of mine you drew attention to was that I said I fail to see how homeless peeps are slaves. Again you gave nothing that supports or explains your argument, just asking me to look up what modern slavery is.
Yawn... what definition am I gonna get this time I wonder
"Okay. I made my point of view (not an argument) in my first post further up the thread. Please can you specifically tell me from my first posting which of my points you’d like me to further clarify as they, in your opinion are “nothing”. Thanks. | |||
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"Lots of arguing about phrasing going on here! I fail to see how the homeless are like slaves. Prisoners however are definitely slaves! But yeah these are such complex issues. Sad to see so many justify not helping their fellow humans because of what they might spend the money on. I used to have the same moral dilemma when giving to people on the streets until I gave it some thought. Then I realised if I'm judging someone, trying to work out whether or not they deserve my pound or not because of their situation, then maybe my motivation is wrong. I should want to help all, not cast judgement on who deserves it. And besides, who am I to say who deserves what? The vigilantes sound dangerous though! Like with all power: those who want it shouldn't have it Look up what the term Modern Slavery means.
Why? Is there going to be a picture of a homeless person? Maybe time to put away the shovel now eh?
Oh dear. For a self-professed sapiophile, I’m a bit embarrassed for you.
I’ve not said homeless people are slaves, I’ve referenced the Care Act 2014’s definition of abuse term Modern Slavery (and trafficking) as an example of some of the issues in enforced begging cases - it’s not semantics it’s referencing safeguarding issues in the line of work. Bless.
Coming from the person who has constantly based an arguement on nothing. "I have work in this area..." then say nothing to how it supports your argument.
the only point of mine you drew attention to was that I said I fail to see how homeless peeps are slaves. Again you gave nothing that supports or explains your argument, just asking me to look up what modern slavery is.
Yawn... what definition am I gonna get this time I wonder
Okay. I made my point of view (not an argument) in my first post further up the thread. Please can you specifically tell me from my first posting which of my points you’d like me to further clarify as they, in your opinion are “nothing”. Thanks. "It’s my post that starts “Evening” | |||
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"maybe i going to be homeless soon lol" Speak to Shelter, Crisis or similar charities for advice. Prevention and early intervention support is far more effective than reactive work once someone has become homeless. Hope you’re okay. | |||
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"Lots of arguing about phrasing going on here! I fail to see how the homeless are like slaves. Prisoners however are definitely slaves! But yeah these are such complex issues. Sad to see so many justify not helping their fellow humans because of what they might spend the money on. I used to have the same moral dilemma when giving to people on the streets until I gave it some thought. Then I realised if I'm judging someone, trying to work out whether or not they deserve my pound or not because of their situation, then maybe my motivation is wrong. I should want to help all, not cast judgement on who deserves it. And besides, who am I to say who deserves what? The vigilantes sound dangerous though! Like with all power: those who want it shouldn't have it Look up what the term Modern Slavery means.
Why? Is there going to be a picture of a homeless person? Maybe time to put away the shovel now eh?
Oh dear. For a self-professed sapiophile, I’m a bit embarrassed for you.
I’ve not said homeless people are slaves, I’ve referenced the Care Act 2014’s definition of abuse term Modern Slavery (and trafficking) as an example of some of the issues in enforced begging cases - it’s not semantics it’s referencing safeguarding issues in the line of work. Bless.
Coming from the person who has constantly based an arguement on nothing. "I have work in this area..." then say nothing to how it supports your argument.
the only point of mine you drew attention to was that I said I fail to see how homeless peeps are slaves. Again you gave nothing that supports or explains your argument, just asking me to look up what modern slavery is.
Yawn... what definition am I gonna get this time I wonder
Okay. I made my point of view (not an argument) in my first post further up the thread. Please can you specifically tell me from my first posting which of my points you’d like me to further clarify as they, in your opinion are “nothing”. Thanks.
It’s my post that starts “Evening”"Ha! So many posts I got lost! I thought you were being patronising asking me to google the meaning modern slavery. I've heard about forced begging and also met a few people who were brought to the uk, had their passports taken and then forced to pick strawberries for £25 a week. All this usual human horribleness aside, I still give, usually food indiscriminately. I only waded in to try and make the point that we don't know their situation so if you're gonna give just do it. Guess you get so many silly comments made on here I saw what you were talking about later on and got the wrong end of the stick. I apologise | |||
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