FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > prolific cheaters; its not their fault
prolific cheaters; its not their fault
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"Subject A sounds like a bit of a twat to be honest "we are not here to judge the person on their actions or let personal feelings about the subject cloud our judgement.. I would like well thought out and constructed opinions on the subject please... however, on a personal note, it does seem that subject A comes from a long line of twats! | |||
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"Every male my fathers side of the family has cheated. I am a product of an affair and my father was never with my mother. My two uncles (my fathers brothers) both had children outside of their main relationships where they also fathered children. My Grandfather (their Dad) had many affairs and my Nan left him when I was 9. The male cousins on that side are also massive flirts, one has had a child behind his fiancés back! All Italian handsome bastards as well! The women are perfectly fine!" That's pretty awful and incredibly sad. | |||
"Some people are made to be monogamous, some are not. You can be non monogamous without cheating though, cheating is always a choice." This, largely. I say this as a former cheating addict. There is predisposition involved, whether it's nature or nurture is another debate (I'm pretty sure it's nurture) but at any rate by the time a man or woman gets to adulthood their personalities in this regard are largely set. They either have or do not have a predisposition to cheating. No different to addictive personalities with regards to drugs, they are addicted to the combination of body chemicals that cheating brings. Adrenaline, endorphins, seratonin, oxytocin etc. But, and its a huge pimply but, predisposition does not excuse behaviour, only explain it. And it is NOT out of their control. It might be harder for them than others to control themselves, but they still have a choice. Those of us who are predisposed, if we are to be in a relationship have to be honest with ourselves and our partners. L knows I'm an addict. And I use the present tense despite the fact that I don't cheat now, because like alcoholism you are never over it. You might get to a point where you don't need a drink every day, but at the back of you will always be a little monkey on your back trying to tempt you. All you can do is make the active choice not to listen. For some people, like me, swinging is actually a very effective coping strategy as well as a lot of fun | |||
"Every male my fathers side of the family has cheated. I am a product of an affair and my father was never with my mother. My two uncles (my fathers brothers) both had children outside of their main relationships where they also fathered children. My Grandfather (their Dad) had many affairs and my Nan left him when I was 9. The male cousins on that side are also massive flirts, one has had a child behind his fiancés back! All Italian handsome bastards as well! The women are perfectly fine!" Side note: Just read your profile, bravo. I couldn't have summed up my feelings on this site any better myself, never thought I'd see such sense from a unicorn. | |||
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"Some people are made to be monogamous, some are not. You can be non monogamous without cheating though, cheating is always a choice. This, largely. I say this as a former cheating addict. There is predisposition involved, whether it's nature or nurture is another debate (I'm pretty sure it's nurture) but at any rate by the time a man or woman gets to adulthood their personalities in this regard are largely set. They either have or do not have a predisposition to cheating. No different to addictive personalities with regards to drugs, they are addicted to the combination of body chemicals that cheating brings. Adrenaline, endorphins, seratonin, oxytocin etc. But, and its a huge pimply but, predisposition does not excuse behaviour, only explain it. And it is NOT out of their control. It might be harder for them than others to control themselves, but they still have a choice. " Exactly so. There are predispositions to immorality in nature and nurture, same as in gangster families or those with abuse or alcoholism that runs in the family. But bottom line we are responsible for our choices - in all those families you generally see some shining example who just says no, bucks the trend. | |||
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"Some people are made to be monogamous, some are not. You can be non monogamous without cheating though, cheating is always a choice. This, largely. I say this as a former cheating addict. There is predisposition involved, whether it's nature or nurture is another debate (I'm pretty sure it's nurture) but at any rate by the time a man or woman gets to adulthood their personalities in this regard are largely set. They either have or do not have a predisposition to cheating. No different to addictive personalities with regards to drugs, they are addicted to the combination of body chemicals that cheating brings. Adrenaline, endorphins, seratonin, oxytocin etc. But, and its a huge pimply but, predisposition does not excuse behaviour, only explain it. And it is NOT out of their control. It might be harder for them than others to control themselves, but they still have a choice. Those of us who are predisposed, if we are to be in a relationship have to be honest with ourselves and our partners. L knows I'm an addict. And I use the present tense despite the fact that I don't cheat now, because like alcoholism you are never over it. You might get to a point where you don't need a drink every day, but at the back of you will always be a little monkey on your back trying to tempt you. All you can do is make the active choice not to listen. For some people, like me, swinging is actually a very effective coping strategy as well as a lot of fun" Having noted the point of not excusing the behaviour... By swinging and using that as a coping strategy just using swinging as an excuse for consentual cheating? If you are a habitual speeder, the use of fines, education etc to make you aware of the consequences is to stop you from speeding. You are not given one free hour at the racetrack of your choice to "get it out of your system". To address the OP, I think there may be something in what you say. Some people come from a long line of philanderers. It is up to the individual to try and break the cycle, however you could well pass on the philanderer gene to your kids. p.s. I'm not getting into the swinging v cheating debate. There are threads aplenty about that. | |||
"Some people are made to be monogamous, some are not. You can be non monogamous without cheating though, cheating is always a choice. This, largely. I say this as a former cheating addict. There is predisposition involved, whether it's nature or nurture is another debate (I'm pretty sure it's nurture) but at any rate by the time a man or woman gets to adulthood their personalities in this regard are largely set. They either have or do not have a predisposition to cheating. No different to addictive personalities with regards to drugs, they are addicted to the combination of body chemicals that cheating brings. Adrenaline, endorphins, seratonin, oxytocin etc. But, and its a huge pimply but, predisposition does not excuse behaviour, only explain it. And it is NOT out of their control. It might be harder for them than others to control themselves, but they still have a choice. Those of us who are predisposed, if we are to be in a relationship have to be honest with ourselves and our partners. L knows I'm an addict. And I use the present tense despite the fact that I don't cheat now, because like alcoholism you are never over it. You might get to a point where you don't need a drink every day, but at the back of you will always be a little monkey on your back trying to tempt you. All you can do is make the active choice not to listen. For some people, like me, swinging is actually a very effective coping strategy as well as a lot of fun" Very honest message and like you I use swinging as a coping strategy I have never and have no inclination to have an affair but I enjoy sex with different people so this is the way I choose to do it | |||
"Subject A sounds like a bit of a twat to be honest "Ahem... Twat | |||
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"Whether you’re pre-disposed or not, you still have a choice. If you do cheat, you can’t say, I had no option it’s in my DNA. That’s a cop out. " Some people never cheat, some may have the momentary lapse of judgement and regret it for the rest of their life, Some may be addicted to the rush of the affair but there is no family history of similar actions.. Its the small minority that perhaps cannot help themselves, they may even know it is wrong (and probably do, although I would not exclude them being unaware of the wrong doing), it is that minority that I suggest have a mental predisposition to cheat and have seem to have little control over it. Those traits are seen in many forms of addiction, the brain is very complex and drives people to do things that do seem odd to the rest of us.. A schizophrenic has delusions that seem totally real to them, we know and understand those types of extreme mental illness simply because of their extreme nature and effect on those suffering the effects so why is it not out of the realms of possibility that cheating for some could too be a form of mental illness, like other addictions that just cannot be kicked.. Im not attempting to excuse others actions but try to understand and explore the possibility that it may exist as a genetically transferable trait. | |||
"Some people are made to be monogamous, some are not. You can be non monogamous without cheating though, cheating is always a choice. This, largely. I say this as a former cheating addict. There is predisposition involved, whether it's nature or nurture is another debate (I'm pretty sure it's nurture) but at any rate by the time a man or woman gets to adulthood their personalities in this regard are largely set. They either have or do not have a predisposition to cheating. No different to addictive personalities with regards to drugs, they are addicted to the combination of body chemicals that cheating brings. Adrenaline, endorphins, seratonin, oxytocin etc. But, and its a huge pimply but, predisposition does not excuse behaviour, only explain it. And it is NOT out of their control. It might be harder for them than others to control themselves, but they still have a choice. Those of us who are predisposed, if we are to be in a relationship have to be honest with ourselves and our partners. L knows I'm an addict. And I use the present tense despite the fact that I don't cheat now, because like alcoholism you are never over it. You might get to a point where you don't need a drink every day, but at the back of you will always be a little monkey on your back trying to tempt you. All you can do is make the active choice not to listen. For some people, like me, swinging is actually a very effective coping strategy as well as a lot of fun Having noted the point of not excusing the behaviour... By swinging and using that as a coping strategy just using swinging as an excuse for consentual cheating? If you are a habitual speeder, the use of fines, education etc to make you aware of the consequences is to stop you from speeding. You are not given one free hour at the racetrack of your choice to "get it out of your system". To address the OP, I think there may be something in what you say. Some people come from a long line of philanderers. It is up to the individual to try and break the cycle, however you could well pass on the philanderer gene to your kids. p.s. I'm not getting into the swinging v cheating debate. There are threads aplenty about that." That's an interesting perspective, I'd expect it's very individual. But to take your point on the racetrack, while no, the law won't mandate an hour at the track to get it out of your system I do note that my public road speeding pretty much disappeared naturally at around the time I started enjoying a few trackdays in seriously fast cars (Ariel Atoms, Nissan GTRs, Gallardo Spiders, that sort of thing). Not saying there is causation, just an observation of a correlation in me. I just stopped feeling any need to go fast. Whether swinging is a form of consensual cheating I think much depends on the nature of the relationship, the level of communication and the character of the individuals involved. In some cases I have no doubt that could be how it plays out. The way it worked for us was that me and L originally just hooked up. I was in the middle of the most tumultuous period in my life. I was juggling about 7 women at the time. It was insanity. We both knew pretty quickly that we liked each other far more than just a hook up, but she knew what I was, at the time, a player. I was clear that I was someone who craves sexual variety and this addiction drives my cheating. As it turned out while she didn't have the addiction, she did have appreciation for sexual variety, in particular exploring her bisexuality. We decided to abandon my original line of reasoning which was "We shouldn't get too serious because X" to "Let's experiment and see whether or not we can make this non-conventional relationship work" as it turned out it did. And now, even though we haven't had a meet in almost a year I don't cheat and rarely think of it. Because the door isn't closed, we can play with others and get the variety. And because L actually keeps me on my toes sexually far more than I'd expected. I replaced 7 women with 1 and was more sexually satisfied. On top of the swinging. Our relationship has strong rules, and the consequences for any breach are well outlined and hard. But neither of us would call it consensual cheating. In fact when we got fully up to speed what we said was that more accurately we had made cheating obsolete. | |||
"Some people are made to be monogamous, some are not. You can be non monogamous without cheating though, cheating is always a choice. This, largely. I say this as a former cheating addict. There is predisposition involved, whether it's nature or nurture is another debate (I'm pretty sure it's nurture) but at any rate by the time a man or woman gets to adulthood their personalities in this regard are largely set. They either have or do not have a predisposition to cheating. No different to addictive personalities with regards to drugs, they are addicted to the combination of body chemicals that cheating brings. Adrenaline, endorphins, seratonin, oxytocin etc. But, and its a huge pimply but, predisposition does not excuse behaviour, only explain it. And it is NOT out of their control. It might be harder for them than others to control themselves, but they still have a choice. Those of us who are predisposed, if we are to be in a relationship have to be honest with ourselves and our partners. L knows I'm an addict. And I use the present tense despite the fact that I don't cheat now, because like alcoholism you are never over it. You might get to a point where you don't need a drink every day, but at the back of you will always be a little monkey on your back trying to tempt you. All you can do is make the active choice not to listen. For some people, like me, swinging is actually a very effective coping strategy as well as a lot of fun Having noted the point of not excusing the behaviour... By swinging and using that as a coping strategy just using swinging as an excuse for consentual cheating? If you are a habitual speeder, the use of fines, education etc to make you aware of the consequences is to stop you from speeding. You are not given one free hour at the racetrack of your choice to "get it out of your system". To address the OP, I think there may be something in what you say. Some people come from a long line of philanderers. It is up to the individual to try and break the cycle, however you could well pass on the philanderer gene to your kids. p.s. I'm not getting into the swinging v cheating debate. There are threads aplenty about that. That's an interesting perspective, I'd expect it's very individual. But to take your point on the racetrack, while no, the law won't mandate an hour at the track to get it out of your system I do note that my public road speeding pretty much disappeared naturally at around the time I started enjoying a few trackdays in seriously fast cars (Ariel Atoms, Nissan GTRs, Gallardo Spiders, that sort of thing). Not saying there is causation, just an observation of a correlation in me. I just stopped feeling any need to go fast. Whether swinging is a form of consensual cheating I think much depends on the nature of the relationship, the level of communication and the character of the individuals involved. In some cases I have no doubt that could be how it plays out. The way it worked for us was that me and L originally just hooked up. I was in the middle of the most tumultuous period in my life. I was juggling about 7 women at the time. It was insanity. We both knew pretty quickly that we liked each other far more than just a hook up, but she knew what I was, at the time, a player. I was clear that I was someone who craves sexual variety and this addiction drives my cheating. As it turned out while she didn't have the addiction, she did have appreciation for sexual variety, in particular exploring her bisexuality. We decided to abandon my original line of reasoning which was "We shouldn't get too serious because X" to "Let's experiment and see whether or not we can make this non-conventional relationship work" as it turned out it did. And now, even though we haven't had a meet in almost a year I don't cheat and rarely think of it. Because the door isn't closed, we can play with others and get the variety. And because L actually keeps me on my toes sexually far more than I'd expected. I replaced 7 women with 1 and was more sexually satisfied. On top of the swinging. Our relationship has strong rules, and the consequences for any breach are well outlined and hard. But neither of us would call it consensual cheating. In fact when we got fully up to speed what we said was that more accurately we had made cheating obsolete." And fair play to you for that. By making cheating obsolete, you have found that works for you. Others are not that fortunate and that is why infidelity is rife in all walks of life. | |||
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"Does your genetic make up control your feelings or behaviour, which are controlled by the brain and chemicals." Genetics can affect your chemistry for sure. | |||
"My husband and all of his brothers cheated. With them, I think it was their wanting to be adored by more than one woman. At one point his eldest brother was seeing 4 women at the same time. Another had 2 other women as well as his long term girlfriend. " Here's one example: "Histrionic personality disorder is characterized by a pattern of excessive attention-seeking emotions, usually beginning in early adulthood, including inappropriately seductive behavior and an excessive need for approval. Histrionic people are lively, dramatic, vivacious, enthusiastic, and flirtatious. HPD is diagnosed four times as frequently in women as men.[1] It affects 2–3% of the general population and 10–15% in inpatient and outpatient mental health institutions.[2] HPD lies in the dramatic cluster of personality disorders.[3] People with HPD have a high need for attention, make loud and inappropriate appearances, exaggerate their behaviors and emotions, and crave stimulation.[3] They may exhibit sexually provocative behavior, express strong emotions with an impressionistic style, and can be easily influenced by others. Associated features include egocentrism, self-indulgence, continuous longing for appreciation, and persistent manipulative behavior to achieve their own needs." | |||
"My husband and all of his brothers cheated. With them, I think it was their wanting to be adored by more than one woman. At one point his eldest brother was seeing 4 women at the same time. Another had 2 other women as well as his long term girlfriend. " I guess it's difficult to know if examples like that are purely down to no moral compass, psychological or even psychiatric reasons. Read the forums enough and you'll see a lit of hurt, damaged, lost or bitter people mixed in with the recreational swingers. Behind the actions there may be something a little deeper and I doubt those recidivists are actually finding true happiness. | |||
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"Sigh. Cheating is wrong. It hurts people. Yes I know my situation and am trying to leave what has become an abusive relationship because of my cheating. Personally I've realised I'm not made to be monogamous. I like having multiple partners sexually. I did discuss a sexually open relationship with my partner but he doesn't want it. Sometimes the harder path is the right one. On the other hand I wouldn't judge anyone for cheating. The issue is getting caught. " I don't think those that cheat are actually under the misconception that what they do is acceptable? That's where those who attack them so venomously on the forums are mistaken. It's a choice which the individual makes. But like a lot of choices in life it's provided to you after a myriad of events and factors in ones life. | |||
"My husband and all of his brothers cheated. With them, I think it was their wanting to be adored by more than one woman. At one point his eldest brother was seeing 4 women at the same time. Another had 2 other women as well as his long term girlfriend. Here's one example: "Histrionic personality disorder is characterized by a pattern of excessive attention-seeking emotions, usually beginning in early adulthood, including inappropriately seductive behavior and an excessive need for approval. Histrionic people are lively, dramatic, vivacious, enthusiastic, and flirtatious. HPD is diagnosed four times as frequently in women as men.[1] It affects 2–3% of the general population and 10–15% in inpatient and outpatient mental health institutions.[2] HPD lies in the dramatic cluster of personality disorders.[3] People with HPD have a high need for attention, make loud and inappropriate appearances, exaggerate their behaviors and emotions, and crave stimulation.[3] They may exhibit sexually provocative behavior, express strong emotions with an impressionistic style, and can be easily influenced by others. Associated features include egocentrism, self-indulgence, continuous longing for appreciation, and persistent manipulative behavior to achieve their own needs."" Ok, that sums up one of subject A's siblings to a tee... There is obviously something in this, i did only got thinking about this earlier after reading another thread so didn't delve too far into any facts or figures beyond my own anecdotal information.. I knew i could rely on the power of the collective forum brain to get us moving towards any truths that may exist.. | |||
"Sigh. Cheating is wrong. It hurts people. Yes I know my situation and am trying to leave what has become an abusive relationship because of my cheating. Personally I've realised I'm not made to be monogamous. I like having multiple partners sexually. I did discuss a sexually open relationship with my partner but he doesn't want it. Sometimes the harder path is the right one. On the other hand I wouldn't judge anyone for cheating. The issue is getting caught. I don't think those that cheat are actually under the misconception that what they do is acceptable? That's where those who attack them so venomously on the forums are mistaken. It's a choice which the individual makes. But like a lot of choices in life it's provided to you after a myriad of events and factors in ones life." I agree I know what I'm doing is wrong however I have my reasons and fair enough the majority won't agree with those reasons but when I find someone else similar to me who does understand I feel not a sense of relief but something along those lines. | |||
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" Or some people just like the thrill of a new person and when they are with someone for any length of time, they crave that new exciting feeling again. Been there, had my heart broken. P x " Very true I've experienced it too, but the human psyche is far too complicated to label. Every one goes but how they leave stays with us. | |||
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"Another thread got me thinking, are some people predisposed to cheat? Some people have addictive personalities, others are what we call psychotic and can detach from emotion and these traits have been tracked down to genetics, so is it possible that genetics could cause a person to be a prolific cheater? I will present some evidence to back my claim and it is up to you to consider the facts and put forward your opinions or anecdotal arguments.... Subject A is a prolific cheater and has cheated on multiple partners with work colleagues, acquaintances and friends of subject A's spouses... Subject A was brought up in a middle class home, both parents were there and they went on family holidays together.. A perfectly normal family life. This in itself isn't unusual, there are many similar cases and it could be assumed that subject A is in fact unlucky and is unhappy in the relationships, thus feeling the need to seek solace in bed with another... many times over. However, when you consider the wider family of subject A, the siblings of subject A have also had failed marriages due to affairs and cousins of subject A also have marriages fail, again due the extra marital goings on.. Subject A's father was a little bit naughty too, having had several other partners at the same time as being married to subject A's mother and fathering three further children around the same time as Subject A and A's siblings... Subject A's uncles (two out of three on the fathers side) also had multiple failed marriages, with one having children with another partner while still married to his first spouse. All of these family goings on were unknown to Subject A at the point of embarking on the first affair and did not come to light until a few years after the failed relationships of subject A and A's siblings... So what has predisposed this family to contain so many cheaters and prolific ones at that? My assumption is it is down to genetics, it is not like subject A was brought up in an environment where the indiscretions of the father and uncles were discussed or even known about, this was the 60's and 70's... Back then Liberace, Elton John and Freddy Mercury were just flamboyant and our favourite TV personalities just liked kids... We were more than naive, we were totally blind! SSex was never, ever discussed... ever! Therefore, to conclude, I would suggest that some are preprogrammed to cheat and have no control over it... Opinions... utter bollocks or do you think there may be an inkling of fact behind it? Discuss.." Opinion Sentient self should be able to override primal animal self in most cases other than more extreme neurological reasons for inability of self control ? | |||
"... And now, even though we haven't had a meet in almost a year I don't cheat and rarely think of it. Because the door isn't closed, we can play with others and get the variety. And because L actually keeps me on my toes sexually far more than I'd expected. I replaced 7 women with 1 and was more sexually satisfied. On top of the swinging. Our relationship has strong rules, and the consequences for any breach are well outlined and hard. But neither of us would call it consensual cheating. In fact when we got fully up to speed what we said was that more accurately we had made cheating obsolete." That's interesting. I wonder if some people just need sexual variety. Mismatched sex drives where one person doesn't want any sex and the other does, surely won't ever end well. | |||
"Some people are made to be monogamous, some are not. You can be non monogamous without cheating though, cheating is always a choice." I agree with this. But also sometimes people just need love or affection or sex and if they aren't getting it with their partner they just look elsewhere. | |||
