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Modern day discipline in schools
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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We was chatting today to our neighbour about how the discipline have changed from back in the days where the kids had respect for authorities and teachers and how they got disciplined if they did something wrong, such as us using the ruler on the hands and nowadays where a teacher cant say or touch them, what have gone wrong, whats your view? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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anyone who needs to physically hurt a child to get their point across has already lost that battle. Using corporal punishment against a child does not engender respect, but the opposite. Also, as many recent cases have shown, one persons idea of reasonable chastisement is not the same as anothers. |
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There is no discipline in society as a whole, nevermind school. Discipline starts at home, but some kids have no discipline and take that to school, then have no regard for the rules or teachers, they ruin other kid's educations. You set them a detention, and their parents call up to complain and try to get them out of it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I was speaking to a friend who was a teacher in england (shes now moved to be a teacher elsewhere) and she said its an absolute minefield when it comes to naughty students. The slightest thing wrong and the parents are on their back or complaining to the school board |
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By *tonMessCouple
over a year ago
Slough Windsor ish |
Disciplin should be instilled by the parents, boundarys set from a young age, rules and respect should come as second nature to a child by the time they reach school age.
School should only be reinforcing that home grown disciplin.
There shouldnt be place for corporal punishment in todays society. |
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"anyone who needs to physically hurt a child to get their point across has already lost that battle. Using corporal punishment against a child does not engender respect, but the opposite. Also, as many recent cases have shown, one persons idea of reasonable chastisement is not the same as anothers."
Says someone who has never stood at the front of a class of snarling, unruly, threatening, undisciplined teenagers! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Disciplin should be instilled by the parents, boundarys set from a young age, rules and respect should come as second nature to a child by the time they reach school age.
School should only be reinforcing that home grown disciplin.
There shouldnt be place for corporal punishment in todays society."
exactly! its only people unable to bring up their children properly, with a sense of respect for everyone, that resort to using physical pain as a method of 'discipline'.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"anyone who needs to physically hurt a child to get their point across has already lost that battle. Using corporal punishment against a child does not engender respect, but the opposite. Also, as many recent cases have shown, one persons idea of reasonable chastisement is not the same as anothers.
Says someone who has never stood at the front of a class of snarling, unruly, threatening, undisciplined teenagers!"
wrong. i have done. And i am well aware of the problems with discipline in schools, i live with a teacher. Respect begins in a childs home, but regardless of that, physical punishment is never necessary. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So why do teachers struggle to keep control, deliver a lesson, and get assaulted themselves?"
because they havent been brought up with a sense of respect for their parents let alone anyone else. That has nothing to do with using corporal punishment. |
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But what effective threat can be used against these yobs?
That's why the teachers have a problem. There is no effective weapon in their arsenal.
All that they can do is have them excluded, which is what they want. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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In my opinion no teacher or anyone else should put their hands on anyone's child no matter what !! If children misbehave at school the should be dealt with in an appropriate way e.g. Suspension expulsion and not by any kind of violence, doesn't set a good precedent does it ? If children act out there's a reason behind 99.9% of the time and it's the parents job to do sobething about it no one else's. |
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"In my opinion no teacher or anyone else should put their hands on anyone's child no matter what !! If children misbehave at school the should be dealt with in an appropriate way e.g. Suspension expulsion and not by any kind of violence, doesn't set a good precedent does it ? If children act out there's a reason behind 99.9% of the time and it's the parents job to do sobething about it no one else's."
And that's what the yobs know - that the teachers are toothless, hence they behave in the manner that they do. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But what effective threat can be used against these yobs?
That's why the teachers have a problem. There is no effective weapon in their arsenal.
All that they can do is have them excluded, which is what they want."
youre wrong actually, exclusion is used less and less nowadays. There is clearly a discipline problem in some schools, not helped by education cuts to programs set up to deal with with it. Continuity of teachers is very important for discipline as well and with teachers staying for shorter and shorter lengths of time in the job, jobs are filled by substitute teachers more and more, so many children dont get a chance to form much of a bond with their teachers, and when they see a new face every couple of weeks are going to test each one as they arrive..none of which has any bearing on physical punishment anyway. there is no reason or excuse for that in our society. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Interesting thread I really don't think there is a one answer to discipline everyone responds differently
My brothers and I were all brought up the same usually with the belt
One brother responded well, myself I would hit back (usually a big mistake!) And another brother got excluded from every school he went to and ended up in a special school full of other children trying to go one better than the next this was the worst thing that could ever have happened to him as he is still the same
Personally I think they need counselling and given individual help to get to the underlying problem everyone is different |
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"There are a lot more teenagers who behave well at school than behave badly. We focus too much on the negatives. "
Tell that to the teachers. And notice the poster above who blamed cuts and teachers constantly leaving. That's why the leave! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There are a lot more teenagers who behave well at school than behave badly. We focus too much on the negatives. "
yes! its really not helpful to claim that all or even most kids misbehave in school, its simply not true...discipline obviouly should start at home, teachers shouldnt have to be spending their time on things that are parents responsibility...but however you look at it, education cuts over the last few years have had a very damaging effect on schools, their teachers, and their students. its just blinkered and ignorant to say otherwise. |
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"There are a lot more teenagers who behave well at school than behave badly. We focus too much on the negatives.
yes! its really not helpful to claim that all or even most kids misbehave in school, its simply not true...discipline obviouly should start at home, teachers shouldnt have to be spending their time on things that are parents responsibility...but however you look at it, education cuts over the last few years have had a very damaging effect on schools, their teachers, and their students. its just blinkered and ignorant to say otherwise. "
How have funding cuts made the yobs behave more badly?
And what about all the brand new schools that have been built?
I was taught at an 18th Century boarding school and the old buildings were terrible compared to today's brand new state schools. The boarding houses were like army barracks in WW2, and the showers in the rugby pavilion changing room were identical to cattle sheds.
That did not make me a disruptive yob. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I grew up in an era when we got caned and beaten by teachers.Believe me it wasn't good at all.Some real sadistic fuckers back then.The best teachers could control the class without violence.  |
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"I grew up in an era when we got caned and beaten by teachers.Believe me it wasn't good at all.Some real sadistic fuckers back then.The best teachers could control the class without violence. "
Because back then, we were genuinely scared of those teachers. Today they just laugh at them, because they know that they are toothless. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I grew up in an era when we got caned and beaten by teachers.Believe me it wasn't good at all.Some real sadistic fuckers back then.The best teachers could control the class without violence. "
Spot on. I was a good student, got my head down, pretty much straight A’s all through. I was talking to a mate in class when the teacher came in, clearly pissed off at something and swung his cane in my direction from behind me. I turned into it so the tip caught me on the cheekbone. Yet when I retaliated the school said I was in the wrong |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I grew up in an era when we got caned and beaten by teachers.Believe me it wasn't good at all.Some real sadistic fuckers back then.The best teachers could control the class without violence.
Because back then, we were genuinely scared of those teachers. Today they just laugh at them, because they know that they are toothless."
Yeah some teachers instilled fear others didn't need to.
Some of those fuckers took great pleasure in beating the shit out of kids. |
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By *ANDA2Couple
over a year ago
Henley Arden |
"But what effective threat can be used against these yobs?
That's why the teachers have a problem. There is no effective weapon in their arsenal.
All that they can do is have them excluded, which is what they want."
Your missing the point
The threat of corporal punishment never stops the yobs. The same way prison does not stop thieves. They just see it as an occasional hazard even a badge of honour.
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"But what effective threat can be used against these yobs?
That's why the teachers have a problem. There is no effective weapon in their arsenal.
All that they can do is have them excluded, which is what they want.
Your missing the point
The threat of corporal punishment never stops the yobs. The same way prison does not stop thieves. They just see it as an occasional hazard even a badge of honour.
"
Then why don't we reintroduce it and see if it helps, because I think that seeing that in happen in front of a class of yobs might be a shock to their system, and might make them think twice.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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When i was 16 I had a science teacher who had the ability to instill fear with just a look or a few words. Very rarely did anyone dick about in his lessons. He was big fucker, 6ft 6in of muscle and semi pro rugby player.
There was one lad who was a dick though, threatened the teacher in class a few times but he never bit, until he took he took too far. One lesson the lad was trying it on, smashed a glass jar thing and started threatening the teacher with it. He tried to calm him down but the lad wouldn't back down. Teacher thumped him square in the face, I swear he flew 6ft through the air. In hospital with broken nose and eye socket, heavy concussion. Had to have surgery to put him his right.
He got arrested but we all came forwards and provided statements he was being threatened. Police turned around and pretty much told the lad he got what he deserved and wouldn't prosecute.
I've been friends with the teacher for years now and he's a great guy, still teaching too.
The lad he twatted died of a heroin OD when I was about 22.
I think the teacher was perfectly right in what he did. |
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By *ANDA2Couple
over a year ago
Henley Arden |
"But what effective threat can be used against these yobs?
That's why the teachers have a problem. There is no effective weapon in their arsenal.
All that they can do is have them excluded, which is what they want.
Your missing the point
The threat of corporal punishment never stops the yobs. The same way prison does not stop thieves. They just see it as an occasional hazard even a badge of honour.
Then why don't we reintroduce it and see if it helps, because I think that seeing that in happen in front of a class of yobs might be a shock to their system, and might make them think twice.
"
Why not Bring back public flogging and hanging too at the same time. Oh also the village sticks too.
Why bring back something that had clearly failed ?
Studies have shown and experience had shown corporal punishment does not work.
Of course you can think what you like but facts show otherwise |
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"But what effective threat can be used against these yobs?
That's why the teachers have a problem. There is no effective weapon in their arsenal.
All that they can do is have them excluded, which is what they want.
Your missing the point
The threat of corporal punishment never stops the yobs. The same way prison does not stop thieves. They just see it as an occasional hazard even a badge of honour.
Then why don't we reintroduce it and see if it helps, because I think that seeing that in happen in front of a class of yobs might be a shock to their system, and might make them think twice.
Why not Bring back public flogging and hanging too at the same time. Oh also the village sticks too.
Why bring back something that had clearly failed ?
Studies have shown and experience had shown corporal punishment does not work.
Of course you can think what you like but facts show otherwise "
Who said any of those punishments failed? They just stop being used because of social pressures, not because they were ineffective. |
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By *ANDA2Couple
over a year ago
Henley Arden |
"But what effective threat can be used against these yobs?
That's why the teachers have a problem. There is no effective weapon in their arsenal.
All that they can do is have them excluded, which is what they want.
Your missing the point
The threat of corporal punishment never stops the yobs. The same way prison does not stop thieves. They just see it as an occasional hazard even a badge of honour.
Then why don't we reintroduce it and see if it helps, because I think that seeing that in happen in front of a class of yobs might be a shock to their system, and might make them think twice.
Why not Bring back public flogging and hanging too at the same time. Oh also the village sticks too.
Why bring back something that had clearly failed ?
Studies have shown and experience had shown corporal punishment does not work.
Of course you can think what you like but facts show otherwise
Who said any of those punishments failed? They just stop being used because of social pressures, not because they were ineffective."
They clearly failed because you still had problems in schools which had corporal punishment ergo it failed.
Many scientific studies have shown corporal punishment does not work. |
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We just say crap parents breed crap children.
The next generation will be even worse unless we give them boundaries and re-inforce them by whatever means.
Too many use the “not my little cherub”.
If they actually knew their child then things may be different and school would be far nicer for everyone.
Pc gone mad. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Caning children didn't solve their problems or change their behaviour. How many times would you hit a child before you thought you were wasting your time, because hitting them didn't make them behave?
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By *ANDA2Couple
over a year ago
Henley Arden |
A lot of modern recent ‘bad’ behaviour in schools has been linked to poor diet.
Caffeine and instant energy drinks, food etc make people over active, edgy and can’t concentrate.
Lack of quality food means people can’t concentrate too which leads to frustration and bad behaviour.
No amount of caning will sort this out |
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"Do we hit adults who do wrong? Why not give bad employees the lash when they cause trouble? "
I don't want physical pain punishments in schools but you can't pretend they are completely ineffective. Ultimately adult life is based around certain people being given a monopoly on violence in a country. So yes, if you attack a police office then they will hit you / taser you / do whatever they need to restrain you. It's not that rare that two countries settle their differences with violence.
Ultimately adult life is not organised without the threat of pain and i don't see how a childs life can be. I just think parents should be the judge of it, not schools. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"It's nothing to do with cuts. It's all to do with the lack of discipline and stability at home, the lack of manners, and respect, and because teachers are toothless."
My old man was one of those "yobs" of which you speak.
He was beaten by both his teachers and his father.
Beating kids doesn't breed respect, it breeds resentment. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"We just say crap parents breed crap children.
The next generation will be even worse unless we give them boundaries and re-inforce them by whatever means.
Too many use the “not my little cherub”.
If they actually knew their child then things may be different and school would be far nicer for everyone.
Pc gone mad."
Do you beat your kids then? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My experience of school punishment was that it was arbitrary.
Sometimes it was extremely violent sometimes it was a mix of humiliation and psychological torture and violence other times it was a short sharp shock out of the blue.I remember once a group of us pushing a scrumage machine across a field in winter being canned whenever we stopped.This want on for an hour.Fucking criminal when I think about it. |
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"We just say crap parents breed crap children.
The next generation will be even worse unless we give them boundaries and re-inforce them by whatever means.
Too many use the “not my little cherub”.
If they actually knew their child then things may be different and school would be far nicer for everyone.
Pc gone mad.
Do you beat your kids then?"
Never had to. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"anyone who needs to physically hurt a child to get their point across has already lost that battle. Using corporal punishment against a child does not engender respect, but the opposite. Also, as many recent cases have shown, one persons idea of reasonable chastisement is not the same as anothers."
this |
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"It's nothing to do with cuts. It's all to do with the lack of discipline and stability at home, the lack of manners, and respect, and because teachers are toothless.
My old man was one of those "yobs" of which you speak.
He was beaten by both his teachers and his father.
Beating kids doesn't breed respect, it breeds resentment. "
Total rubbish, I was punished at school and it did me no harm, taught us manners, sadly what is missing today. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"It's nothing to do with cuts. It's all to do with the lack of discipline and stability at home, the lack of manners, and respect, and because teachers are toothless.
My old man was one of those "yobs" of which you speak.
He was beaten by both his teachers and his father.
Beating kids doesn't breed respect, it breeds resentment.
Total rubbish, I was punished at school and it did me no harm, taught us manners, sadly what is missing today."
Punished how?
The old man went off the rails in spite of him being caned at school as well as one of his other teachers beating him using his shoes.
My grandad's "teaching respect" was done with a belt.
It didn't work though - the old boy got into a lot of trouble and ran away from home at 14, was arrested a year later for sleeping rough. He did a lot of other things too, which I won't discuss here, but regular beatings did nothing to dissuade him, and if you asked him, he'd say they fuelled his resentment.
Is that the kind of thing you mean?
I would never strike my child and she is very well behaved, and I wouldn't allow another adult to either.
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By *ANDA2Couple
over a year ago
Henley Arden |
"It's nothing to do with cuts. It's all to do with the lack of discipline and stability at home, the lack of manners, and respect, and because teachers are toothless.
My old man was one of those "yobs" of which you speak.
He was beaten by both his teachers and his father.
Beating kids doesn't breed respect, it breeds resentment.
Total rubbish, I was punished at school and it did me no harm, taught us manners, sadly what is missing today."
Being punished and being given physical punishment are too separate things. You can be taught good behaviour without being physically punished.
If by logic physical canning punishment works for kids then so does adult Birching or hanging. When plainly they don’t. |
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"It's nothing to do with cuts. It's all to do with the lack of discipline and stability at home, the lack of manners, and respect, and because teachers are toothless.
My old man was one of those "yobs" of which you speak.
He was beaten by both his teachers and his father.
Beating kids doesn't breed respect, it breeds resentment.
Total rubbish, I was punished at school and it did me no harm, taught us manners, sadly what is missing today.
Being punished and being given physical punishment are too separate things. You can be taught good behaviour without being physically punished.
If by logic physical canning punishment works for kids then so does adult Birching or hanging. When plainly they don’t. "
Spot on! Violence (even when advocated as a disciplinary act), will also always breed more violence |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I was born in 77..do the maths
I was systematically beat all the way thru infants juniors and seniors
Ranging from being stabbed in the head with pencils getting lashed with the trainer punched in the back
Head butted
Hit with the sharp edges of metal rulers
I'm still a little c%€£
Violence don't work... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Do we hit adults who do wrong? Why not give bad employees the lash when they cause trouble?
I don't want physical pain punishments in schools but you can't pretend they are completely ineffective. Ultimately adult life is based around certain people being given a monopoly on violence in a country. So yes, if you attack a police office then they will hit you / taser you / do whatever they need to restrain you. It's not that rare that two countries settle their differences with violence.
Ultimately adult life is not organised without the threat of pain and i don't see how a childs life can be. I just think parents should be the judge of it, not schools. "
How are they effective? I know a lot of men who were repeatedly caned at school. That didn't stop them becoming criminals or wife beaters when they left school. They didn't leave with an education either. One teacher used to do a run up to cane them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's nothing to do with cuts. It's all to do with the lack of discipline and stability at home, the lack of manners, and respect, and because teachers are toothless.
My old man was one of those "yobs" of which you speak.
He was beaten by both his teachers and his father.
Beating kids doesn't breed respect, it breeds resentment.
Total rubbish, I was punished at school and it did me no harm, taught us manners, sadly what is missing today.
Punished how?
The old man went off the rails in spite of him being caned at school as well as one of his other teachers beating him using his shoes.
My grandad's "teaching respect" was done with a belt.
It didn't work though - the old boy got into a lot of trouble and ran away from home at 14, was arrested a year later for sleeping rough. He did a lot of other things too, which I won't discuss here, but regular beatings did nothing to dissuade him, and if you asked him, he'd say they fuelled his resentment.
Is that the kind of thing you mean?
I would never strike my child and she is very well behaved, and I wouldn't allow another adult to either.
"
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"Donald Trump has got it right - arm the teachers, would be nice to accidentally let off a few rounds..."
Did you post on the wrong thread or did you mean to say that teachers should shoot children? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I doubt anyone who advocates children being beaten has ever seen some poor skinny kid in underpants being beaten in a gym crying his eyes out in front of 30 other boys. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think there should be a lock-up in schools. Kid misbehaves and gets locked in a room for the rest of the school day with the lessons they're missing being broadcast to the room. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"There is no discipline in society as a whole, nevermind school. Discipline starts at home, but some kids have no discipline and take that to school, then have no regard for the rules or teachers, they ruin other kid's educations. You set them a detention, and their parents call up to complain and try to get them out of it. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My son says every lesson he is in there are naughty kids playing up and wasting time. So when the naughty kids are good they get rewarded with merits that they can spend on stuff. Ridiculous. My son is quite and gets on with his work so doesn’t get rewarded. He says it makes him feel like being naughty. He’s 12 |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"I was born in 77..do the maths
I was systematically beat all the way thru infants juniors and seniors
Ranging from being stabbed in the head with pencils getting lashed with the trainer punched in the back
Head butted
Hit with the sharp edges of metal rulers
I'm still a little c%€£
Violence don't work..."
I was at school at that time and we had caning gym shoe thrashings detentions,ears pulled etc.When I told my perents my dad punished me for complaining.Did me no harm or my friends,my dad was the best in the world and I learned many good values.All these things about discipline should be brought back in the home and at school. |
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"Do we hit adults who do wrong? Why not give bad employees the lash when they cause trouble?
I don't want physical pain punishments in schools but you can't pretend they are completely ineffective. Ultimately adult life is based around certain people being given a monopoly on violence in a country. So yes, if you attack a police office then they will hit you / taser you / do whatever they need to restrain you. It's not that rare that two countries settle their differences with violence.
Ultimately adult life is not organised without the threat of pain and i don't see how a childs life can be. I just think parents should be the judge of it, not schools. "
Interesting point, and thread generally. May return to it if I have time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was born in 77..do the maths
I was systematically beat all the way thru infants juniors and seniors
Ranging from being stabbed in the head with pencils getting lashed with the trainer punched in the back
Head butted
Hit with the sharp edges of metal rulers
I'm still a little c%€£
Violence don't work...I was at school at that time and we had caning gym shoe thrashings detentions,ears pulled etc.When I told my perents my dad punished me for complaining.Did me no harm or my friends,my dad was the best in the world and I learned many good values.All these things about discipline should be brought back in the home and at school."
So just to be clear, you’re saying that adults should be able to assault children? |
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"I was born in 77..do the maths
I was systematically beat all the way thru infants juniors and seniors
Ranging from being stabbed in the head with pencils getting lashed with the trainer punched in the back
Head butted
Hit with the sharp edges of metal rulers
I'm still a little c%€£
Violence don't work...I was at school at that time and we had caning gym shoe thrashings detentions,ears pulled etc.When I told my perents my dad punished me for complaining.Did me no harm or my friends,my dad was the best in the world and I learned many good values.All these things about discipline should be brought back in the home and at school."
Discipline is important as it is necessary to make society work. People who continuously ignore the rules, do their own thing and refuse to fit in need to get the message that in order to benefit from society that they need to fit and abode by said rules. Agreed!
Violence, beating into submission does not work long term. People need to understand and learn and some people need some support in this. |
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"My son says every lesson he is in there are naughty kids playing up and wasting time. So when the naughty kids are good they get rewarded with merits that they can spend on stuff. Ridiculous. My son is quite and gets on with his work so doesn’t get rewarded. He says it makes him feel like being naughty. He’s 12"
So that's against reward and punishment in general, and a lot for psychological studies point that way (I understand). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was born in 77..do the maths
I was systematically beat all the way thru infants juniors and seniors
Ranging from being stabbed in the head with pencils getting lashed with the trainer punched in the back
Head butted
Hit with the sharp edges of metal rulers
I'm still a little c%€£
Violence don't work...I was at school at that time and we had caning gym shoe thrashings detentions,ears pulled etc.When I told my perents my dad punished me for complaining.Did me no harm or my friends,my dad was the best in the world and I learned many good values.All these things about discipline should be brought back in the home and at school."
It didn't do a lot of people any good and may have harmed others. |
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"Get to the root of why some children misbehave in school. "
How do you know there's"a root"? Maybe it's multilayered. Rebelling is part of being human, and to an extent it's a good thing. Beyond that extent it's a bad thing. But how do you know where to draw the line? Where is the difference between curtailing individuality, perhaps genius, and setting necessary limits on an out of control child?
I assume every parent had had the same doubts - haven't they? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I started school just as they had stopped using the cane etc, when I was at school anyone misbehaving was scared of the teachers because they used their voices, I had one teacher who was genuinely scary when he started to shout.
That said is this whole no respect thing as rife as we think? Thinks like 24 hour news and social media has not helped in the slightest, was it always like it but now parents and kids have a platform to air their views easily?
I must admit though when I was in year 7 in secondary school if I saw a year ten or eleven I would see them and go the other way. Now apparently according to my son who is in year nine the year 7’s sit at the back of the bus and tell the older kids to fuck off!!
Geeky x |
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To me the issue of misbehaving kids is far more basic.
Fewer youngsters grow up in functioning families (and I define the term broadly, not necessarily traditional families) and therefore without a sense of security, belonging, values and an idea that behaviour has consequences, good and bad.
If we can fix family life, if we can get parents or caregivers spending more quality time with their youngsters (and the parents need to be trained), being consistent in their guidance, more emotionally available to them rather than being preoccupied with mobiles and social media, we have a chance to make society, schools and life more stable and happy. Broad, bold statement, I know. I do believe though that bring up kids through genuine nurture is the key to a better functioning society. |
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"To me the issue of misbehaving kids is far more basic.
Fewer youngsters grow up in functioning families (and I define the term broadly, not necessarily traditional families) and therefore without a sense of security, belonging, values and an idea that behaviour has consequences, good and bad.
If we can fix family life, if we can get parents or caregivers spending more quality time with their youngsters (and the parents need to be trained), being consistent in their guidance, more emotionally available to them rather than being preoccupied with mobiles and social media, we have a chance to make society, schools and life more stable and happy. Broad, bold statement, I know. I do believe though that bring up kids through genuine nurture is the key to a better functioning society."
I hope you're right. It does require some blind faith though. |
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"To me the issue of misbehaving kids is far more basic.
Fewer youngsters grow up in functioning families (and I define the term broadly, not necessarily traditional families) and therefore without a sense of security, belonging, values and an idea that behaviour has consequences, good and bad.
If we can fix family life, if we can get parents or caregivers spending more quality time with their youngsters (and the parents need to be trained), being consistent in their guidance, more emotionally available to them rather than being preoccupied with mobiles and social media, we have a chance to make society, schools and life more stable and happy. Broad, bold statement, I know. I do believe though that bring up kids through genuine nurture is the key to a better functioning society."
Problem today, if you are on benefits and can get your child diagnosed as having ADHD, you can get more free money.
There are hundreds of children in our schools who are being given drugs for an illness that they don’t even have.
Such a great society. |
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"To me the issue of misbehaving kids is far more basic.
Fewer youngsters grow up in functioning families (and I define the term broadly, not necessarily traditional families) and therefore without a sense of security, belonging, values and an idea that behaviour has consequences, good and bad.
If we can fix family life, if we can get parents or caregivers spending more quality time with their youngsters (and the parents need to be trained), being consistent in their guidance, more emotionally available to them rather than being preoccupied with mobiles and social media, we have a chance to make society, schools and life more stable and happy. Broad, bold statement, I know. I do believe though that bring up kids through genuine nurture is the key to a better functioning society.
I hope you're right. It does require some blind faith though. "
What happens when you do as much nurturing as you can (given other commitments like jobs and need for sleep, and a little fun even, or striving for your own goals) and the child seems to have a very poor grasp of consequences? |
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Discipline is important as it is necessary to make society work.
it also starts at home and should carry on through school to adult life
theres rules and discipline in adult life so why not do it when there younger
to many do gooders stopping whats legal discipline yet there the first to scream when unruly children are outside bricking there cars causing trouble at the corners of there houses its been on this forum often enough asking for help.
a parent now gets the blame all blame and yet there hands are tied behind there back cant blame a parent then
discipline at school after school not going to happen in my eyes im picking the kids up after school if there not there im coming in to get them end of.
I want my children home and safe both girl and boy not 1 hr 2 hrs late on there own where anything can happen and it has not to my children.
so discipline was done within school time during breaks and dinner break there time
oh threaten a child or take something off them all you get is i will report you to school or child line and i will go live in care instead and get what i want instead
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To me the issue of misbehaving kids is far more basic.
Fewer youngsters grow up in functioning families (and I define the term broadly, not necessarily traditional families) and therefore without a sense of security, belonging, values and an idea that behaviour has consequences, good and bad.
If we can fix family life, if we can get parents or caregivers spending more quality time with their youngsters (and the parents need to be trained), being consistent in their guidance, more emotionally available to them rather than being preoccupied with mobiles and social media, we have a chance to make society, schools and life more stable and happy. Broad, bold statement, I know. I do believe though that bring up kids through genuine nurture is the key to a better functioning society.
Problem today, if you are on benefits and can get your child diagnosed as having ADHD, you can get more free money.
There are hundreds of children in our schools who are being given drugs for an illness that they don’t even have.
Such a great society."
How do you know that? Where do you get your facts from? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Ahh so many problems. Half of it is kids being forced to do things they don't enjoy. Also teachers don't have the time to make the lessons as engaging as they need to be. If teachers were paid more there would be more competition and better teachers.
We also have to remember most of the kids are the millennials and are not used to working hard for things. Not their fault though. Instant gratification culture we're subjecting them to.
Main problem is the people making the decisions aren't teachers so have no idea what makes a good school.
I for one do not think it was any better with strict rules and would never agree to hitting kids. It teaches them nothing but to solve problems with violence. Plus beating people into submission is not educating them, it's almost slavery. Even though kids can be undisciplined nowadays, They are encouraged to show their personality and be creative and expressive. Plus the standards of teaching and schools in general are constantly scrutinised to allow the learning to be assessed by all |
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"My son says every lesson he is in there are naughty kids playing up and wasting time. So when the naughty kids are good they get rewarded with merits that they can spend on stuff. Ridiculous. My son is quite and gets on with his work so doesn’t get rewarded. He says it makes him feel like being naughty. He’s 12
So that's against reward and punishment in general, and a lot for psychological studies point that way (I understand). "
the reward for being naughty is simple do half days or a lesson and go home
not forgetting if they do them they can go on trips
all those naughty kids just rub it in with other children that theyve been home all day playing games and been outside having fun
seen it all
its even worse if they are social services kids
100.00 a month spending money spent on clothes they go shopping with them
a few lessons a week 3 hrs if that home tuition at the home
rule is tidy your room |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Have to say that I am saddened by reading some of the comments here.
The word Discipline comes from the root word for disciple, which means to teach.
Children learning about self respect and self discipline, one would hope would alleviate bullying and bad behaviour but its funny how public and Grammar schools also have their fair share of bully’s and badly behaved children, who turn into bullying adults (Boris anyone!)
Personally, I don’t feel that violence solves anything and yet I do feel for the teachers who have to face this on a daily basis from some of the little toads.
In some ways with some schools becoming ever more draconian, kids are rebelling even more because that’s what some children have done since time immemorial! Marlon Brando in the young ones…”What are you rebelling against”…Brando’s character….”What have you got?”
Do we seriously want to go back to a time when child abuse was rift; be it sexual, physical or emotional and mental? Did we as a society not learn anything from all the abuse that has recently be uncovered because children were subjugated to bend to our will as adults?
I sometimes feel that it’s just a reflection on the wider issues that are going on in society in general where selfishness is more prevalent. Politicians being grabby, be that with power or literally. Big corporations constantly shafting the little man; Amazon, FB, a lot of the GIG economy etc
Children need good examples to look up to and emulate and I just don’t feel that there are many in this day and age!
Just my 2 pennies worth.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To me the issue of misbehaving kids is far more basic.
Fewer youngsters grow up in functioning families (and I define the term broadly, not necessarily traditional families) and therefore without a sense of security, belonging, values and an idea that behaviour has consequences, good and bad.
If we can fix family life, if we can get parents or caregivers spending more quality time with their youngsters (and the parents need to be trained), being consistent in their guidance, more emotionally available to them rather than being preoccupied with mobiles and social media, we have a chance to make society, schools and life more stable and happy. Broad, bold statement, I know. I do believe though that bring up kids through genuine nurture is the key to a better functioning society.
Problem today, if you are on benefits and can get your child diagnosed as having ADHD, you can get more free money.
There are hundreds of children in our schools who are being given drugs for an illness that they don’t even have.
Such a great society."
ADHD is real. If you meet a kid with it it's quite obvious. They don't have drugs for it though |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Have to say that I am saddened by reading some of the comments here.
The word Discipline comes from the root word for disciple, which means to teach.
Children learning about self respect and self discipline, one would hope would alleviate bullying and bad behaviour but its funny how public and Grammar schools also have their fair share of bully’s and badly behaved children, who turn into bullying adults (Boris anyone!)
Personally, I don’t feel that violence solves anything and yet I do feel for the teachers who have to face this on a daily basis from some of the little toads.
In some ways with some schools becoming ever more draconian, kids are rebelling even more because that’s what some children have done since time immemorial! Marlon Brando in the young ones…”What are you rebelling against”…Brando’s character….”What have you got?”
Do we seriously want to go back to a time when child abuse was rift; be it sexual, physical or emotional and mental? Did we as a society not learn anything from all the abuse that has recently be uncovered because children were subjugated to bend to our will as adults?
I sometimes feel that it’s just a reflection on the wider issues that are going on in society in general where selfishness is more prevalent. Politicians being grabby, be that with power or literally. Big corporations constantly shafting the little man; Amazon, FB, a lot of the GIG economy etc
Children need good examples to look up to and emulate and I just don’t feel that there are many in this day and age!
Just my 2 pennies worth.
"
Some very wise words here |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Harking back to some glorious age where all kids respected their elders and never said boo too a goose is silly, it never existed, and beating kids won't magically bring that age about. "
Yeah I read a punishment book from the 70s and the kids were still acting up and playing pranks on the teachers even with the beatings! They also got hit for being late, defending their friends etc. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
ADHD is real. If you meet a kid with it it's quite obvious. They don't have drugs for it though"
Current NICE guidelines are to not use drugs with pre-pubecent children with mild to moderate ADHD but for the more severely affected there are a well researched range of compounds. |
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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago
Hull |
I attended two Secondary. Schools in Scotland between 1967 & 1973.
First was just outside Glasgow, tough as they came and teachers moved around in groups for safety. I survived two years there before we moved along with Dad's job to Fife and school #2. Discipline consisted of almost ritual beatings as teachers struggled to maintain order. Playground fights were standard every day.
There, the school was run more on Grammar school styles. Competition between pupils existed, with excellent sports, cultural and a healthy after school hours activity policy.
Fights? Unknown. Disorder? Unknown. There were Prefects, all carefully elected to help teachers. The teaching staff themselves rarely used the 'belt'; a simple disapproving look was enough to bring you into line.
I did 4 yrs there and loved it. |
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"To me the issue of misbehaving kids is far more basic.
Fewer youngsters grow up in functioning families (and I define the term broadly, not necessarily traditional families) and therefore without a sense of security, belonging, values and an idea that behaviour has consequences, good and bad.
If we can fix family life, if we can get parents or caregivers spending more quality time with their youngsters (and the parents need to be trained), being consistent in their guidance, more emotionally available to them rather than being preoccupied with mobiles and social media, we have a chance to make society, schools and life more stable and happy. Broad, bold statement, I know. I do believe though that bring up kids through genuine nurture is the key to a better functioning society.
Problem today, if you are on benefits and can get your child diagnosed as having ADHD, you can get more free money.
There are hundreds of children in our schools who are being given drugs for an illness that they don’t even have.
Such a great society.
ADHD is real. If you meet a kid with it it's quite obvious. They don't have drugs for it though"
Children who do have ADHD stand out.
Medication is prescribed rightly for them. |
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"I blame the media.
Kids used to think adults were allowed to chastise them. Now they’ve been told we can’t they play on it.  "
its actually told to the children at school from a very young age i think around 5 years upwards i know its from 7-8 thats definite
if your parents do this or that then please report to your school teacher
media dosnt actualy tell you if your seen chastising your child in a way thats reported then you may find that you can be arrested and charged for it
the amount of people ive heard saying if you dont behave im going to smack you is kinda interesting however you can be reported for it
if your seen doing it you can be arrested and charged |
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I enjoy seeing some of the "young adults" joining up now being screamed at on the parade square by an angry Sgt Major or run ragged around camp when they think they can bring the attitude they went through school with into an environment where it isn't tolerated. Play shit games, win shit prizes.
My dad was a good bloke but wasn't frightened of giving me a smack as a kid when I played up, I quickly learned to keep out of trouble or at least not get caught. I was once thrown into a stack of chairs by one of my teachers at secondary school for talking and laughing while he was taking the register, I may have called him every name under the sun later when I was out of earshot, but I never put a foot wrong in one of his lessons again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I blame the media.
Kids used to think adults were allowed to chastise them. Now they’ve been told we can’t they play on it.
its actually told to the children at school from a very young age i think around 5 years upwards i know its from 7-8 thats definite
if your parents do this or that then please report to your school teacher
media dosnt actualy tell you if your seen chastising your child in a way thats reported then you may find that you can be arrested and charged for it
the amount of people ive heard saying if you dont behave im going to smack you is kinda interesting however you can be reported for it
if your seen doing it you can be arrested and charged "
Like I said. Kids now know they’re untouchable.
I heard a kids shout a threat to someone who dared to tell them off in a precinct once. She said she’d say they guy touched her boob. He hadn’t. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Right I am going possibly upset a few liberal and left wing people, discipline is a learned thing from ether a childs parent, school or society, a child is not born with discipline a child has its own will and is unable to think out its actions and any consequences of its actions and when telling a child that what it is doing is wrong is not working then they may be need to use corporal punishment to emphasize what they are doing is wrong, |
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By *ANDA2Couple
over a year ago
Henley Arden |
"To me the issue of misbehaving kids is far more basic.
Fewer youngsters grow up in functioning families (and I define the term broadly, not necessarily traditional families) and therefore without a sense of security, belonging, values and an idea that behaviour has consequences, good and bad.
If we can fix family life, if we can get parents or caregivers spending more quality time with their youngsters (and the parents need to be trained), being consistent in their guidance, more emotionally available to them rather than being preoccupied with mobiles and social media, we have a chance to make society, schools and life more stable and happy. Broad, bold statement, I know. I do believe though that bring up kids through genuine nurture is the key to a better functioning society.
Problem today, if you are on benefits and can get your child diagnosed as having ADHD, you can get more free money.
There are hundreds of children in our schools who are being given drugs for an illness that they don’t even have.
Such a great society."
Pretty general snobbish quote there.
As apposed to rich parents getting kids diagnosed with fake illness to get extra time in exams or simply buying a certificate.
A few cheaters of all social classes is hardly the main issue. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Right I am going possibly upset a few liberal and left wing people, discipline is a learned thing from ether a childs parent, school or society, a child is not born with discipline a child has its own will and is unable to think out its actions and any consequences of its actions and when telling a child that what it is doing is wrong is not working then they may be need to use corporal punishment to emphasize what they are doing is wrong, "
So if you saw an adult hitting a child in the street would you walk past? And who decides what is acceptable punishment? A slap, a cane, a kick, maybe a punch in the face?
If an adult struck your child how would you react? There is simply no excuse for hitting a child, anyone that thinks otherwise I simply cannot understand or respect your view. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My son says every lesson he is in there are naughty kids playing up and wasting time. So when the naughty kids are good they get rewarded with merits that they can spend on stuff. Ridiculous. My son is quite and gets on with his work so doesn’t get rewarded. He says it makes him feel like being naughty. He’s 12
So that's against reward and punishment in general, and a lot for psychological studies point that way (I understand). "
it’s totally messed up to make a child want to be naughty |
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"Do all the people saying that "well I was beaten to pulp as a kid and it never did me any harm" realise that is not evidence of anything other than the effect of being beaten to a pulp on them? "
Do you believe standards of discipline have reduced in the last 30 years? If so, do you have any suggestions on how to improve it? |
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"Right I am going possibly upset a few liberal and left wing people, discipline is a learned thing from ether a childs parent, school or society, a child is not born with discipline a child has its own will and is unable to think out its actions and any consequences of its actions and when telling a child that what it is doing is wrong is not working then they may be need to use corporal punishment to emphasize what they are doing is wrong,
So if you saw an adult hitting a child in the street would you walk past? And who decides what is acceptable punishment? A slap, a cane, a kick, maybe a punch in the face?
If an adult struck your child how would you react? There is simply no excuse for hitting a child, anyone that thinks otherwise I simply cannot understand or respect your view. "
So for example if your child decided it was funny to drag a stone right down the side of your car or smash next doors windows simply for shits and giggles, how would you react? |
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"Do all the people saying that "well I was beaten to pulp as a kid and it never did me any harm" realise that is not evidence of anything other than the effect of being beaten to a pulp on them?
Do you believe standards of discipline have reduced in the last 30 years? If so, do you have any suggestions on how to improve it? "
I grew up in the seventies and eighties. Society was far more violent then then it is now. See the decline of football hooliganism as a good example. It's nowhere near as bad as it used to be.
There's been a large decline in crime rates since then, so I am rather puzzled by this breakdown of discipline argument. |
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"Do all the people saying that "well I was beaten to pulp as a kid and it never did me any harm" realise that is not evidence of anything other than the effect of being beaten to a pulp on them?
Do you believe standards of discipline have reduced in the last 30 years? If so, do you have any suggestions on how to improve it?
I grew up in the seventies and eighties. Society was far more violent then then it is now. See the decline of football hooliganism as a good example. It's nowhere near as bad as it used to be.
There's been a large decline in crime rates since then, so I am rather puzzled by this breakdown of discipline argument. "
Crime rates are a whole phenomenon that could fill another thread! Ok so your arguement is that there's no case to answer for then?
I didn't live in the 70's (thank God) and don't have two childhoods to compare. It is a fact that narcissistic behaviour is dramatically increasing (i.e. it is both more visible and more prevalent) and i do think that's linked to behaviours that make some kids unteachable in schools.
Some sociologists have described it as a backlash of the self esteen movement, which of course started for good reasons. Anecdotally, i do notice on these 'educating essex' type programmes that 9/10 the first thing they say to a naughty child is "the thing is tyler / charmaine you are actually really bright but you don't apply yourself". In reality the kid isn't bright at all... |
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"Do all the people saying that "well I was beaten to pulp as a kid and it never did me any harm" realise that is not evidence of anything other than the effect of being beaten to a pulp on them?
Do you believe standards of discipline have reduced in the last 30 years? If so, do you have any suggestions on how to improve it?
I grew up in the seventies and eighties. Society was far more violent then then it is now. See the decline of football hooliganism as a good example. It's nowhere near as bad as it used to be.
There's been a large decline in crime rates since then, so I am rather puzzled by this breakdown of discipline argument.
Crime rates are a whole phenomenon that could fill another thread! Ok so your arguement is that there's no case to answer for then?
I didn't live in the 70's (thank God) and don't have two childhoods to compare. It is a fact that narcissistic behaviour is dramatically increasing (i.e. it is both more visible and more prevalent) and i do think that's linked to behaviours that make some kids unteachable in schools.
Some sociologists have described it as a backlash of the self esteen movement, which of course started for good reasons. Anecdotally, i do notice on these 'educating essex' type programmes that 9/10 the first thing they say to a naughty child is "the thing is tyler / charmaine you are actually really bright but you don't apply yourself". In reality the kid isn't bright at all... "
I am old enough to remember the moral panic about breakdown in standards in schools in the seventies. See the Black Papers and Jim Callaghans 1976 Ruskin speech. This was an era when, in 1978 when I was 11, boys in primary schools were slippered by teachers in front of the whole class. I witnessed that a number of times. And that was in a school run by the very left wing Sheffield council.
People have moaned about the declining Morals of the young ever since Plato. It's a perennial. Looked at objectively though, I thinks it's very difficult to argue that we are not a less violent society than we were forty years ago. |
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"Do all the people saying that "well I was beaten to pulp as a kid and it never did me any harm" realise that is not evidence of anything other than the effect of being beaten to a pulp on them?
Do you believe standards of discipline have reduced in the last 30 years? If so, do you have any suggestions on how to improve it?
I grew up in the seventies and eighties. Society was far more violent then then it is now. See the decline of football hooliganism as a good example. It's nowhere near as bad as it used to be.
There's been a large decline in crime rates since then, so I am rather puzzled by this breakdown of discipline argument.
Crime rates are a whole phenomenon that could fill another thread! Ok so your arguement is that there's no case to answer for then?
I didn't live in the 70's (thank God) and don't have two childhoods to compare. It is a fact that narcissistic behaviour is dramatically increasing (i.e. it is both more visible and more prevalent) and i do think that's linked to behaviours that make some kids unteachable in schools.
Some sociologists have described it as a backlash of the self esteen movement, which of course started for good reasons. Anecdotally, i do notice on these 'educating essex' type programmes that 9/10 the first thing they say to a naughty child is "the thing is tyler / charmaine you are actually really bright but you don't apply yourself". In reality the kid isn't bright at all...
I am old enough to remember the moral panic about breakdown in standards in schools in the seventies. See the Black Papers and Jim Callaghans 1976 Ruskin speech. This was an era when, in 1978 when I was 11, boys in primary schools were slippered by teachers in front of the whole class. I witnessed that a number of times. And that was in a school run by the very left wing Sheffield council.
People have moaned about the declining Morals of the young ever since Plato. It's a perennial. Looked at objectively though, I thinks it's very difficult to argue that we are not a less violent society than we were forty years ago. "
We also have different challenges now though. There is less demand now for unskilled and semi-skilled labour, less job stability, more demands for mobility and pensions are dead as a concept. Previously people could get on in life in spite of schools, now everything is stacked against people who don't exit education with flying colours. |
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"But what effective threat can be used against these yobs?
That's why the teachers have a problem. There is no effective weapon in their arsenal.
All that they can do is have them excluded, which is what they want.
Your missing the point
The threat of corporal punishment never stops the yobs. The same way prison does not stop thieves. They just see it as an occasional hazard even a badge of honour.
Then why don't we reintroduce it and see if it helps, because I think that seeing that in happen in front of a class of yobs might be a shock to their system, and might make them think twice.
Why not Bring back public flogging and hanging too at the same time. Oh also the village sticks too.
Why bring back something that had clearly failed ?
Studies have shown and experience had shown corporal punishment does not work.
Of course you can think what you like but facts show otherwise "
did it fail? It certainly didn't at my grammar school .if you did something wrong there you got sent to the headmaster for six of the best .in my seven years there that happened about 3 times in total .nowadays they can can get away with just about anything . tell that to the relatives of the teachers who have been murdered by some young sick physcho .there's no longer any respect these days .I don't find it funny being told to "fuck off" by a 5 yr old .would you ? Last year at a local school there was a 14 yr old lad putting car windows out with stones just down from the school .he got reported and what was his punishment ...2 weeks detention ....not being allowed out at break times ...wow |
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By *ANDA2Couple
over a year ago
Henley Arden |
"But what effective threat can be used against these yobs?
That's why the teachers have a problem. There is no effective weapon in their arsenal.
All that they can do is have them excluded, which is what they want.
Your missing the point
The threat of corporal punishment never stops the yobs. The same way prison does not stop thieves. They just see it as an occasional hazard even a badge of honour.
Then why don't we reintroduce it and see if it helps, because I think that seeing that in happen in front of a class of yobs might be a shock to their system, and might make them think twice.
Why not Bring back public flogging and hanging too at the same time. Oh also the village sticks too.
Why bring back something that had clearly failed ?
Studies have shown and experience had shown corporal punishment does not work.
Of course you can think what you like but facts show otherwise did it fail? It certainly didn't at my grammar school .if you did something wrong there you got sent to the headmaster for six of the best .in my seven years there that happened about 3 times in total .nowadays they can can get away with just about anything . tell that to the relatives of the teachers who have been murdered by some young sick physcho .there's no longer any respect these days .I don't find it funny being told to "fuck off" by a 5 yr old .would you ? Last year at a local school there was a 14 yr old lad putting car windows out with stones just down from the school .he got reported and what was his punishment ...2 weeks detention ....not being allowed out at break times ...wow "
You can’t use your school as an example because you have no ‘control ‘ school or year without canning to compare it too.
Your confusing deterrent, punishment and retribution.
The lad damaged cars. How would physical punishment work as punishment or deterrent?
Physical punishment is not a deterrent. If it were there would be no murders in countries with capital punishment. But there are.
The fact of the matter is the majority of people are law abiding. Then there’s a small minority who vomited crime and will commit it no matter what the punishment is.
I’m not against punishment but physical punishment does not work. |
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"To me the issue of misbehaving kids is far more basic.
Fewer youngsters grow up in functioning families (and I define the term broadly, not necessarily traditional families) and therefore without a sense of security, belonging, values and an idea that behaviour has consequences, good and bad.
If we can fix family life, if we can get parents or caregivers spending more quality time with their youngsters (and the parents need to be trained), being consistent in their guidance, more emotionally available to them rather than being preoccupied with mobiles and social media, we have a chance to make society, schools and life more stable and happy. Broad, bold statement, I know. I do believe though that bring up kids through genuine nurture is the key to a better functioning society.
Problem today, if you are on benefits and can get your child diagnosed as having ADHD, you can get more free money.
There are hundreds of children in our schools who are being given drugs for an illness that they don’t even have.
Such a great society.
Pretty general snobbish quote there.
As apposed to rich parents getting kids diagnosed with fake illness to get extra time in exams or simply buying a certificate.
A few cheaters of all social classes is hardly the main issue. "
We both came from broken homes and are sick to death of hearing excuses for kids bad behaviour.
Making a comparison to faking an illness has no relevance to the thread.
Stop making excuses and bring back respect and manners, our society is broken and the more we ignore these problems the worse it will get.
We are heading for a ridiculous Pc driven lifestyle like America, no thank you. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don’t think discipline is the only problem with kids.
In my experience, kids are brought up to believe everyone is a winner. I went to my oldest kids sports day and they did everything but sports. No race, no egg and spoon race, no sack race. They just danced. But yet they all got a certificate for taking part
It’s no wonder kids kick up a fuss when they are told no or don’t get there own way.
I always tell my oldest that winning is everything, whether it’s a sport, or a job interview when he’s older. And if he loses, don’t cry and complain, just try again and learn from what you did wrong last time.
I’m not saying take there childhood away, but they need to learn to lose |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Teaching is hard and anyone that stays in the British system has it respect.
End of the day we are all really complex and each of us reacts differently depending on the teaching styles. If you think you have the answer then you don't know enough. If you think hitting kids makes them work harder or better then you're an idiot. Forcing people to learn then hitting them when they don't is redicilous. Violence is never the answer to anything.
We all moan and tell others that we know better but no country has it right. Pointless discussion this that seems to be nothing but proving how little most of you know about teaching or schools |
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"We was chatting today to our neighbour about how the discipline have changed from back in the days where the kids had respect for authorities and teachers and how they got disciplined if they did something wrong, such as us using the ruler on the hands and nowadays where a teacher cant say or touch them, what have gone wrong, whats your view?"
Did 'we' have respect for authority? If we did how come the borstals were full? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We was chatting today to our neighbour about how the discipline have changed from back in the days where the kids had respect for authorities and teachers and how they got disciplined if they did something wrong, such as us using the ruler on the hands and nowadays where a teacher cant say or touch them, what have gone wrong, whats your view?
Did 'we' have respect for authority? If we did how come the borstals were full?"
I can tell you now, the miners in my village who were smacked at school had no respect for the authorities, especially in 1984.
I don’t think we can ever have the “correct” amount of discipline. Too many variables |
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By *ANDA2Couple
over a year ago
Henley Arden |
"To me the issue of misbehaving kids is far more basic.
Fewer youngsters grow up in functioning families (and I define the term broadly, not necessarily traditional families) and therefore without a sense of security, belonging, values and an idea that behaviour has consequences, good and bad.
If we can fix family life, if we can get parents or caregivers spending more quality time with their youngsters (and the parents need to be trained), being consistent in their guidance, more emotionally available to them rather than being preoccupied with mobiles and social media, we have a chance to make society, schools and life more stable and happy. Broad, bold statement, I know. I do believe though that bring up kids through genuine nurture is the key to a better functioning society.
Problem today, if you are on benefits and can get your child diagnosed as having ADHD, you can get more free money.
There are hundreds of children in our schools who are being given drugs for an illness that they don’t even have.
Such a great society.
Pretty general snobbish quote there.
As apposed to rich parents getting kids diagnosed with fake illness to get extra time in exams or simply buying a certificate.
A few cheaters of all social classes is hardly the main issue.
We both came from broken homes and are sick to death of hearing excuses for kids bad behaviour.
Making a comparison to faking an illness has no relevance to the thread.
Stop making excuses and bring back respect and manners, our society is broken and the more we ignore these problems the worse it will get.
We are heading for a ridiculous Pc driven lifestyle like America, no thank you."
Nobody certainly not me is making excuse for bad behaviour.
I’m also in favour of discipline, good maners and respect. Just not enforcing it with physical punishment ( violence).
Coming from a one or two parent family make no difference to how someone behaves. |
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"I don’t think discipline is the only problem with kids.
In my experience, kids are brought up to believe everyone is a winner. I went to my oldest kids sports day and they did everything but sports. No race, no egg and spoon race, no sack race. They just danced. But yet they all got a certificate for taking part
It’s no wonder kids kick up a fuss when they are told no or don’t get there own way.
I always tell my oldest that winning is everything, whether it’s a sport, or a job interview when he’s older. And if he loses, don’t cry and complain, just try again and learn from what you did wrong last time.
I’m not saying take there childhood away, but they need to learn to lose "
That's the extreme end of the self esteem moment. Remember the fat, ugly, unpopular girl who came last in everything in 1975 - well she's making policy now and projecting all her insecurities onto the youth of today. Mix in some social media and selfies and that's why narcissism is going through the roof. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don’t think discipline is the only problem with kids.
In my experience, kids are brought up to believe everyone is a winner. I went to my oldest kids sports day and they did everything but sports. No race, no egg and spoon race, no sack race. They just danced. But yet they all got a certificate for taking part
It’s no wonder kids kick up a fuss when they are told no or don’t get there own way.
I always tell my oldest that winning is everything, whether it’s a sport, or a job interview when he’s older. And if he loses, don’t cry and complain, just try again and learn from what you did wrong last time.
I’m not saying take there childhood away, but they need to learn to lose
That's the extreme end of the self esteem moment. Remember the fat, ugly, unpopular girl who came last in everything in 1975 - well she's making policy now and projecting all her insecurities onto the youth of today. Mix in some social media and selfies and that's why narcissism is going through the roof. "
I stand by what I said. I want my kids to be the best at what they do and giving them the “there are no losers” attitude isn’t going to help them.
This is why there is so many so called “millennials” who believe the world should change to suit them |
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"I don’t think discipline is the only problem with kids.
In my experience, kids are brought up to believe everyone is a winner. I went to my oldest kids sports day and they did everything but sports. No race, no egg and spoon race, no sack race. They just danced. But yet they all got a certificate for taking part
It’s no wonder kids kick up a fuss when they are told no or don’t get there own way.
I always tell my oldest that winning is everything, whether it’s a sport, or a job interview when he’s older. And if he loses, don’t cry and complain, just try again and learn from what you did wrong last time.
I’m not saying take there childhood away, but they need to learn to lose
That's the extreme end of the self esteem moment. Remember the fat, ugly, unpopular girl who came last in everything in 1975 - well she's making policy now and projecting all her insecurities onto the youth of today. Mix in some social media and selfies and that's why narcissism is going through the roof.
I stand by what I said. I want my kids to be the best at what they do and giving them the “there are no losers” attitude isn’t going to help them.
This is why there is so many so called “millennials” who believe the world should change to suit them"
I stand by what you said too bro! It's a terrible idea to tell someone they are naturally good at something, it signals to them that they don't need to try in order to improve. |
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"And if our generation had respect for authority why were we being caned?
Our generation coined the phrase 'pigs' for police.
It's a bollocks myth that our generation had respect for authority."
When I was a lad in the seventies people were moaning then that the young had no respect for authority, what with their loud music, swearing and long hair. As smacking and whacking us didn't seem to instill respect the favourite solution of the frustrated middle aged was bringing back national service. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don’t think discipline is the only problem with kids.
In my experience, kids are brought up to believe everyone is a winner. I went to my oldest kids sports day and they did everything but sports. No race, no egg and spoon race, no sack race. They just danced. But yet they all got a certificate for taking part
It’s no wonder kids kick up a fuss when they are told no or don’t get there own way.
I always tell my oldest that winning is everything, whether it’s a sport, or a job interview when he’s older. And if he loses, don’t cry and complain, just try again and learn from what you did wrong last time.
I’m not saying take there childhood away, but they need to learn to lose
That's the extreme end of the self esteem moment. Remember the fat, ugly, unpopular girl who came last in everything in 1975 - well she's making policy now and projecting all her insecurities onto the youth of today. Mix in some social media and selfies and that's why narcissism is going through the roof.
I stand by what I said. I want my kids to be the best at what they do and giving them the “there are no losers” attitude isn’t going to help them.
This is why there is so many so called “millennials” who believe the world should change to suit them
I stand by what you said too bro! It's a terrible idea to tell someone they are naturally good at something, it signals to them that they don't need to try in order to improve."
Exactly |
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"And if our generation had respect for authority why were we being caned?
Our generation coined the phrase 'pigs' for police.
It's a bollocks myth that our generation had respect for authority.
When I was a lad in the seventies people were moaning then that the young had no respect for authority, what with their loud music, swearing and long hair. As smacking and whacking us didn't seem to instill respect the favourite solution of the frustrated middle aged was bringing back national service. "
Word. I hate it when people say that chavs should be thrown into the army for them to sort out. As if the army is some kind of rehab for the emotionally traumatised. It's an elite professional fighting force ffs. |
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"And if our generation had respect for authority why were we being caned?
Our generation coined the phrase 'pigs' for police.
It's a bollocks myth that our generation had respect for authority.
When I was a lad in the seventies people were moaning then that the young had no respect for authority, what with their loud music, swearing and long hair. As smacking and whacking us didn't seem to instill respect the favourite solution of the frustrated middle aged was bringing back national service.
Word. I hate it when people say that chavs should be thrown into the army for them to sort out. As if the army is some kind of rehab for the emotionally traumatised. It's an elite professional fighting force ffs. "
There was a you gov poll a week or so ago on national service that showed the over 65s to be overwhelmingly in favour of national service for the young. As national service for men was abolished in 1960 and as women never had to do it in peacetime, the overwhelming majority of those over 65s never did national service themselves but are quite happy to Shit on the young. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"I don’t think discipline is the only problem with kids.
In my experience, kids are brought up to believe everyone is a winner. I went to my oldest kids sports day and they did everything but sports. No race, no egg and spoon race, no sack race. They just danced. But yet they all got a certificate for taking part
It’s no wonder kids kick up a fuss when they are told no or don’t get there own way.
I always tell my oldest that winning is everything, whether it’s a sport, or a job interview when he’s older. And if he loses, don’t cry and complain, just try again and learn from what you did wrong last time.
I’m not saying take there childhood away, but they need to learn to lose
That's the extreme end of the self esteem moment. Remember the fat, ugly, unpopular girl who came last in everything in 1975 - well she's making policy now and projecting all her insecurities onto the youth of today. Mix in some social media and selfies and that's why narcissism is going through the roof.
I stand by what I said. I want my kids to be the best at what they do and giving them the “there are no losers” attitude isn’t going to help them.
This is why there is so many so called “millennials” who believe the world should change to suit them"
Every generation of youth ever thinks the world should change to suit them.  |
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Maybe if parents stuck to the word no at an early age instead of giving in for a quiet life there wouldn't be as many issues as there are.
I can't tell you how many times a day I see parents not taking responsibility of the discipline of the child.
Kids need to learn that people mean what they say, and saying no to the kid 49 times then giving in on the 50th just teaches them if they push hard and long enough they'll get the response they want.
I hear on a daily basis "the lady is coming, she'll tell you off" no... actually, the lady won't tell you off, the lady will explain to the kid why that behaviour is not acceptable and ask them to stop.
The other one I hear loads "I'll call the policeman to take to away" smashing. Teach the kids to be afraid of the people who are there to protect them. Twats. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Maybe if parents stuck to the word no at an early age instead of giving in for a quiet life there wouldn't be as many issues as there are.
I can't tell you how many times a day I see parents not taking responsibility of the discipline of the child.
Kids need to learn that people mean what they say, and saying no to the kid 49 times then giving in on the 50th just teaches them if they push hard and long enough they'll get the response they want.
I hear on a daily basis "the lady is coming, she'll tell you off" no... actually, the lady won't tell you off, the lady will explain to the kid why that behaviour is not acceptable and ask them to stop.
The other one I hear loads "I'll call the policeman to take to away" smashing. Teach the kids to be afraid of the people who are there to protect them. Twats."
|
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"Maybe if parents stuck to the word no at an early age instead of giving in for a quiet life there wouldn't be as many issues as there are.
I can't tell you how many times a day I see parents not taking responsibility of the discipline of the child.
Kids need to learn that people mean what they say, and saying no to the kid 49 times then giving in on the 50th just teaches them if they push hard and long enough they'll get the response they want.
I hear on a daily basis "the lady is coming, she'll tell you off" no... actually, the lady won't tell you off, the lady will explain to the kid why that behaviour is not acceptable and ask them to stop.
The other one I hear loads "I'll call the policeman to take to away" smashing. Teach the kids to be afraid of the people who are there to protect them. Twats."
Where do you hear this on a daily basis?
Not saying I necessarily disagree with you. But wondering what your authority is. |
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Every kid is different.
1 in 10 people are a psychopath, that means 1 in 10 kids too, that means in a class of 30 there are 3 psychopaths.
Some kids respond to talking some dont, some respond to a shout, some dont, some respond to a slap, some dont.
The problem is, we removed slapping because it affects some kids very badly while helping others.
Then we removed shouting and threthening them, because that affect some kids very badly while helping others.
and all they have left is talking to the kids. When talking does not work they are told to do nothing, that it is obviously the parents fault and not to worry about it.
But the little shits are disrupting classrooms full of people, and are taking up too much teachers time, and te teacher is supposed to say "fuck it, its that one kids parents fault I cant teach the rest of you today"??????
I'm a massive fan of how the army train people. They don't coddle you at all, and when you do well, its YOU doing well. The person training you does not come over and say "I trained you awesome in that", they come over and scream and shout that you fucking did it after all your trying. When you cant do it, they dont blame your parents, or themselves, they blame YOU.
and thats missing from schools, the parents are now blamed if the kid is a shit, and the teachers are praised when the kids do well. |
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"Every kid is different.
1 in 10 people are a psychopath, that means 1 in 10 kids too, that means in a class of 30 there are 3 psychopaths.
Some kids respond to talking some dont, some respond to a shout, some dont, some respond to a slap, some dont.
The problem is, we removed slapping because it affects some kids very badly while helping others.
Then we removed shouting and threthening them, because that affect some kids very badly while helping others.
and all they have left is talking to the kids. When talking does not work they are told to do nothing, that it is obviously the parents fault and not to worry about it.
But the little shits are disrupting classrooms full of people, and are taking up too much teachers time, and te teacher is supposed to say "fuck it, its that one kids parents fault I cant teach the rest of you today"??????
I'm a massive fan of how the army train people. They don't coddle you at all, and when you do well, its YOU doing well. The person training you does not come over and say "I trained you awesome in that", they come over and scream and shout that you fucking did it after all your trying. When you cant do it, they dont blame your parents, or themselves, they blame YOU.
and thats missing from schools, the parents are now blamed if the kid is a shit, and the teachers are praised when the kids do well."
More like 1 in 100 |
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By *ophleeCouple
over a year ago
Fareham |
"We was chatting today to our neighbour about how the discipline have changed from back in the days where the kids had respect for authorities and teachers and how they got disciplined if they did something wrong, such as us using the ruler on the hands and nowadays where a teacher cant say or touch them, what have gone wrong, whats your view?"
Unfortunately altho it worked it our day, it wouldn't work now. Society has changed and we've all played our part in that so best come to terms with how we have to deal with these issues now. Our issue is they always have an answer and have to have the last bloody word lol. |
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"To me the issue of misbehaving kids is far more basic.
Fewer youngsters grow up in functioning families (and I define the term broadly, not necessarily traditional families) and therefore without a sense of security, belonging, values and an idea that behaviour has consequences, good and bad.
If we can fix family life, if we can get parents or caregivers spending more quality time with their youngsters (and the parents need to be trained), being consistent in their guidance, more emotionally available to them rather than being preoccupied with mobiles and social media, we have a chance to make society, schools and life more stable and happy. Broad, bold statement, I know. I do believe though that bring up kids through genuine nurture is the key to a better functioning society.
I hope you're right. It does require some blind faith though.
What happens when you do as much nurturing as you can (given other commitments like jobs and need for sleep, and a little fun even, or striving for your own goals) and the child seems to have a very poor grasp of consequences?"
I empathise and I did not mean to say that a child with ADHD for example is the result of bad parenting. Far from it.
There will always be people, little and big people who fall outside what is considered the "normal" range of behaviours. Some have genuine diagnoses of ADHD , Aspergers, Tourettes etc. and others are probably without boundaries as should have been set by their parents.
My reasoning is that wherever possible we should try to make time available for our youngsters and bring them up in a caring and nurturing way. Kids do by and large follow good (and bad) role models.
I am not saying this is easy and I have had my struggles with mine. But I do believe that parenthood is underrated in favour of careers. And I am saying this loving my work.
Parenting needs to become fashionable again...
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I’ve already said things that upset people on this so won’t pick out individuals for their views. It’s your opinion to which you are entitled, but in my opinion those that say it’s acceptable for kids to be given a slap to teach them right from wrong are shithouses.
And whilst I don’t condone violence, if any adult struck my child they’d regret their actions for a very long time. |
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"Get to the root of why some children misbehave in school. "
Thats why they have social workers at our school for some pupils but there will be still others who are disruptive and get away with things because they can.
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And there lies the problem, we are happy to hand our children over to the schools but not happy to allow them to enforce discipline.
The "Not my little angel" response is what has gotten us to where we are now unfortunately. |
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One of my classmates was punched in the stomach by our Geography teacher, one of my elder brothers friends had his long hair tied to a chair then chair was kicked out from beneath him by a maths teacher, if you were caught with your head in your desk during maths with another female teacher she would repeatedly slam the desk lid down on the back of your head or grab you by your hair and bang your head off the desk, saw a Physics teacher slam an Asian kid up a wall by his throat for speaking Urdu/Punjabi in the corridor.....the list goes on and on. Didn't make any of us better behaved or better students you just developed a distain for most of the teachers......and the cane/slipper never worked either it was always the same kids getting it day in and day out |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"One of my classmates was punched in the stomach by our Geography teacher, one of my elder brothers friends had his long hair tied to a chair then chair was kicked out from beneath him by a maths teacher, if you were caught with your head in your desk during maths with another female teacher she would repeatedly slam the desk lid down on the back of your head or grab you by your hair and bang your head off the desk, saw a Physics teacher slam an Asian kid up a wall by his throat for speaking Urdu/Punjabi in the corridor.....the list goes on and on. Didn't make any of us better behaved or better students you just developed a distain for most of the teachers......and the cane/slipper never worked either it was always the same kids getting it day in and day out"
Yes it did work and you know it, it kept a check on the nasty bullys and the violent and it kept the decent kids in line |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"One of my classmates was punched in the stomach by our Geography teacher, one of my elder brothers friends had his long hair tied to a chair then chair was kicked out from beneath him by a maths teacher, if you were caught with your head in your desk during maths with another female teacher she would repeatedly slam the desk lid down on the back of your head or grab you by your hair and bang your head off the desk, saw a Physics teacher slam an Asian kid up a wall by his throat for speaking Urdu/Punjabi in the corridor.....the list goes on and on. Didn't make any of us better behaved or better students you just developed a distain for most of the teachers......and the cane/slipper never worked either it was always the same kids getting it day in and day out
Yes it did work and you know it, it kept a check on the nasty bullys and the violent and it kept the decent kids in line"
No it didn't. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I’ve already said things that upset people on this so won’t pick out individuals for their views. It’s your opinion to which you are entitled, but in my opinion those that say it’s acceptable for kids to be given a slap to teach them right from wrong are shithouses.
And whilst I don’t condone violence, if any adult struck my child they’d regret their actions for a very long time. "
Well said |
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"One of my classmates was punched in the stomach by our Geography teacher, one of my elder brothers friends had his long hair tied to a chair then chair was kicked out from beneath him by a maths teacher, if you were caught with your head in your desk during maths with another female teacher she would repeatedly slam the desk lid down on the back of your head or grab you by your hair and bang your head off the desk, saw a Physics teacher slam an Asian kid up a wall by his throat for speaking Urdu/Punjabi in the corridor.....the list goes on and on. Didn't make any of us better behaved or better students you just developed a distain for most of the teachers......and the cane/slipper never worked either it was always the same kids getting it day in and day out
Yes it did work and you know it, it kept a check on the nasty bullys and the violent and it kept the decent kids in line
No it didn't. "
Yes it did, there are more cases of bullying in our schools nowadays than there ever were when we were at school.
Social media also has a lot to answer for and should be impossible for children under 16 to access.
At least that may help a little. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"One of my classmates was punched in the stomach by our Geography teacher, one of my elder brothers friends had his long hair tied to a chair then chair was kicked out from beneath him by a maths teacher, if you were caught with your head in your desk during maths with another female teacher she would repeatedly slam the desk lid down on the back of your head or grab you by your hair and bang your head off the desk, saw a Physics teacher slam an Asian kid up a wall by his throat for speaking Urdu/Punjabi in the corridor.....the list goes on and on. Didn't make any of us better behaved or better students you just developed a distain for most of the teachers......and the cane/slipper never worked either it was always the same kids getting it day in and day out
Yes it did work and you know it, it kept a check on the nasty bullys and the violent and it kept the decent kids in line
No it didn't.
Yes it did, there are more cases of bullying in our schools nowadays than there ever were when we were at school.
Social media also has a lot to answer for and should be impossible for children under 16 to access.
At least that may help a little."
I disagree. Hitting a child never helps to discipline them. Kids were hit by teachers at my schools but those same kids did the same bad things all the time. The fear of a teacher hitting them never stopped their bad behaviour. |
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"One of my classmates was punched in the stomach by our Geography teacher, one of my elder brothers friends had his long hair tied to a chair then chair was kicked out from beneath him by a maths teacher, if you were caught with your head in your desk during maths with another female teacher she would repeatedly slam the desk lid down on the back of your head or grab you by your hair and bang your head off the desk, saw a Physics teacher slam an Asian kid up a wall by his throat for speaking Urdu/Punjabi in the corridor.....the list goes on and on. Didn't make any of us better behaved or better students you just developed a distain for most of the teachers......and the cane/slipper never worked either it was always the same kids getting it day in and day out
Yes it did work and you know it, it kept a check on the nasty bullys and the violent and it kept the decent kids in line
No it didn't.
Yes it did, there are more cases of bullying in our schools nowadays than there ever were when we were at school.
Social media also has a lot to answer for and should be impossible for children under 16 to access.
At least that may help a little.
I disagree. Hitting a child never helps to discipline them. Kids were hit by teachers at my schools but those same kids did the same bad things all the time. The fear of a teacher hitting them never stopped their bad behaviour."
Indeed. Some people seem to live in a parallel universe. Those of us of a certain age well remember rampant violence and bullying when we were at school with teachers dishing out slipperings and canings left right and centre with no discernible effect on the prevalence of said violence and bullying.
To be honest, though, it's not about deterrence for people who advocate hitting children. Their notion of justice is that violence should be repaid with violence. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"One of my classmates was punched in the stomach by our Geography teacher, one of my elder brothers friends had his long hair tied to a chair then chair was kicked out from beneath him by a maths teacher, if you were caught with your head in your desk during maths with another female teacher she would repeatedly slam the desk lid down on the back of your head or grab you by your hair and bang your head off the desk, saw a Physics teacher slam an Asian kid up a wall by his throat for speaking Urdu/Punjabi in the corridor.....the list goes on and on. Didn't make any of us better behaved or better students you just developed a distain for most of the teachers......and the cane/slipper never worked either it was always the same kids getting it day in and day out
Yes it did work and you know it, it kept a check on the nasty bullys and the violent and it kept the decent kids in line
No it didn't.
Yes it did, there are more cases of bullying in our schools nowadays than there ever were when we were at school.
Social media also has a lot to answer for and should be impossible for children under 16 to access.
At least that may help a little.
I disagree. Hitting a child never helps to discipline them. Kids were hit by teachers at my schools but those same kids did the same bad things all the time. The fear of a teacher hitting them never stopped their bad behaviour.
Indeed. Some people seem to live in a parallel universe. Those of us of a certain age well remember rampant violence and bullying when we were at school with teachers dishing out slipperings and canings left right and centre with no discernible effect on the prevalence of said violence and bullying.
To be honest, though, it's not about deterrence for people who advocate hitting children. Their notion of justice is that violence should be repaid with violence. "
As said the threat of severe punishment hanging over ones head kept the good kids in line and the nasty kids became examples to all of what to expect when one stepped out of line..
Now that threat of severe punishment has gone, the children have gone feral...
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"One of my classmates was punched in the stomach by our Geography teacher, one of my elder brothers friends had his long hair tied to a chair then chair was kicked out from beneath him by a maths teacher, if you were caught with your head in your desk during maths with another female teacher she would repeatedly slam the desk lid down on the back of your head or grab you by your hair and bang your head off the desk, saw a Physics teacher slam an Asian kid up a wall by his throat for speaking Urdu/Punjabi in the corridor.....the list goes on and on. Didn't make any of us better behaved or better students you just developed a distain for most of the teachers......and the cane/slipper never worked either it was always the same kids getting it day in and day out
Yes it did work and you know it, it kept a check on the nasty bullys and the violent and it kept the decent kids in line
No it didn't.
Yes it did, there are more cases of bullying in our schools nowadays than there ever were when we were at school.
Social media also has a lot to answer for and should be impossible for children under 16 to access.
At least that may help a little.
I disagree. Hitting a child never helps to discipline them. Kids were hit by teachers at my schools but those same kids did the same bad things all the time. The fear of a teacher hitting them never stopped their bad behaviour.
Indeed. Some people seem to live in a parallel universe. Those of us of a certain age well remember rampant violence and bullying when we were at school with teachers dishing out slipperings and canings left right and centre with no discernible effect on the prevalence of said violence and bullying.
To be honest, though, it's not about deterrence for people who advocate hitting children. Their notion of justice is that violence should be repaid with violence.
As said the threat of severe punishment hanging over ones head kept the good kids in line and the nasty kids became examples to all of what to expect when one stepped out of line..
Now that threat of severe punishment has gone, the children have gone feral...
"
The good kids would most likely behave anyway and it clearly didnt prevent the bad kids misbehaving so there was still plenty of bad behaviour going on. |
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"One of my classmates was punched in the stomach by our Geography teacher, one of my elder brothers friends had his long hair tied to a chair then chair was kicked out from beneath him by a maths teacher, if you were caught with your head in your desk during maths with another female teacher she would repeatedly slam the desk lid down on the back of your head or grab you by your hair and bang your head off the desk, saw a Physics teacher slam an Asian kid up a wall by his throat for speaking Urdu/Punjabi in the corridor.....the list goes on and on. Didn't make any of us better behaved or better students you just developed a distain for most of the teachers......and the cane/slipper never worked either it was always the same kids getting it day in and day out
Yes it did work and you know it, it kept a check on the nasty bullys and the violent and it kept the decent kids in line
No it didn't.
Yes it did, there are more cases of bullying in our schools nowadays than there ever were when we were at school.
Social media also has a lot to answer for and should be impossible for children under 16 to access.
At least that may help a little.
I disagree. Hitting a child never helps to discipline them. Kids were hit by teachers at my schools but those same kids did the same bad things all the time. The fear of a teacher hitting them never stopped their bad behaviour.
Indeed. Some people seem to live in a parallel universe. Those of us of a certain age well remember rampant violence and bullying when we were at school with teachers dishing out slipperings and canings left right and centre with no discernible effect on the prevalence of said violence and bullying.
To be honest, though, it's not about deterrence for people who advocate hitting children. Their notion of justice is that violence should be repaid with violence.
As said the threat of severe punishment hanging over ones head kept the good kids in line and the nasty kids became examples to all of what to expect when one stepped out of line..
Now that threat of severe punishment has gone, the children have gone feral...
"
From what I could gather, there was a lot less violence at my kids. School than there was at my school. Both are now grown up. No adult has ever laid a finger on them and neither of them were. "feral".
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"One of my classmates was punched in the stomach by our Geography teacher, one of my elder brothers friends had his long hair tied to a chair then chair was kicked out from beneath him by a maths teacher, if you were caught with your head in your desk during maths with another female teacher she would repeatedly slam the desk lid down on the back of your head or grab you by your hair and bang your head off the desk, saw a Physics teacher slam an Asian kid up a wall by his throat for speaking Urdu/Punjabi in the corridor.....the list goes on and on. Didn't make any of us better behaved or better students you just developed a distain for most of the teachers......and the cane/slipper never worked either it was always the same kids getting it day in and day out
Yes it did work and you know it, it kept a check on the nasty bullys and the violent and it kept the decent kids in line"
No it didn't, bullying still went on kids still got beaten up and the same kids still got the cane, so how on earth is that "working" ???? |
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"One of my classmates was punched in the stomach by our Geography teacher, one of my elder brothers friends had his long hair tied to a chair then chair was kicked out from beneath him by a maths teacher, if you were caught with your head in your desk during maths with another female teacher she would repeatedly slam the desk lid down on the back of your head or grab you by your hair and bang your head off the desk, saw a Physics teacher slam an Asian kid up a wall by his throat for speaking Urdu/Punjabi in the corridor.....the list goes on and on. Didn't make any of us better behaved or better students you just developed a distain for most of the teachers......and the cane/slipper never worked either it was always the same kids getting it day in and day out
Yes it did work and you know it, it kept a check on the nasty bullys and the violent and it kept the decent kids in line
No it didn't.
Yes it did, there are more cases of bullying in our schools nowadays than there ever were when we were at school.
Social media also has a lot to answer for and should be impossible for children under 16 to access.
At least that may help a little.
I disagree. Hitting a child never helps to discipline them. Kids were hit by teachers at my schools but those same kids did the same bad things all the time. The fear of a teacher hitting them never stopped their bad behaviour."
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"One of my classmates was punched in the stomach by our Geography teacher, one of my elder brothers friends had his long hair tied to a chair then chair was kicked out from beneath him by a maths teacher, if you were caught with your head in your desk during maths with another female teacher she would repeatedly slam the desk lid down on the back of your head or grab you by your hair and bang your head off the desk, saw a Physics teacher slam an Asian kid up a wall by his throat for speaking Urdu/Punjabi in the corridor.....the list goes on and on. Didn't make any of us better behaved or better students you just developed a distain for most of the teachers......and the cane/slipper never worked either it was always the same kids getting it day in and day out
Yes it did work and you know it, it kept a check on the nasty bullys and the violent and it kept the decent kids in line
No it didn't.
Yes it did, there are more cases of bullying in our schools nowadays than there ever were when we were at school.
Social media also has a lot to answer for and should be impossible for children under 16 to access.
At least that may help a little."
I don't think there are. I think teachers notice it more now because they are trained to look for the signs.
I agree that cyberbullying is a problem that didn't exist back then, and one of the most concerning things about it is that it can take place even when school is over.
In my day the bullies just beat the fuck out of you and the teachers barely noticed unless you complained. Then they beat you up some more. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And there lies the problem, we are happy to hand our children over to the schools but not happy to allow them to enforce discipline.
The "Not my little angel" response is what has gotten us to where we are now unfortunately."
What’s your definition of ‘enforce discipline’? |
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"We was chatting today to our neighbour about how the discipline have changed from back in the days where the kids had respect for authorities and teachers and how they got disciplined if they did something wrong, such as us using the ruler on the hands and nowadays where a teacher cant say or touch them, what have gone wrong, whats your view?"
Parenting has gone wrong, teachers should be there to teach not to do the job that bad parents should be doing |
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"And there lies the problem, we are happy to hand our children over to the schools but not happy to allow them to enforce discipline.
The "Not my little angel" response is what has gotten us to where we are now unfortunately.
What’s your definition of ‘enforce discipline’?"
That should be left to the school not the parents our head can’t even expel or exclude a child nowadays without the parents coming in and shouting the odds. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And there lies the problem, we are happy to hand our children over to the schools but not happy to allow them to enforce discipline.
The "Not my little angel" response is what has gotten us to where we are now unfortunately.
What’s your definition of ‘enforce discipline’?
That should be left to the school not the parents our head can’t even expel or exclude a child nowadays without the parents coming in and shouting the odds."
So if a teacher struck your child with a cane, or slapped them you’d be fine with that? |
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"And there lies the problem, we are happy to hand our children over to the schools but not happy to allow them to enforce discipline.
The "Not my little angel" response is what has gotten us to where we are now unfortunately.
What’s your definition of ‘enforce discipline’?
That should be left to the school not the parents our head can’t even expel or exclude a child nowadays without the parents coming in and shouting the odds.
So if a teacher struck your child with a cane, or slapped them you’d be fine with that? "
If they had done something that deserved it then yes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And there lies the problem, we are happy to hand our children over to the schools but not happy to allow them to enforce discipline.
The "Not my little angel" response is what has gotten us to where we are now unfortunately.
What’s your definition of ‘enforce discipline’?
That should be left to the school not the parents our head can’t even expel or exclude a child nowadays without the parents coming in and shouting the odds.
So if a teacher struck your child with a cane, or slapped them you’d be fine with that?
If they had done something that deserved it then yes."
What if they hadn’t? What if the child had misbehaved but the actions did not warrant it? What is the teacher was having a bad day and took their frustration out on your child? |
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"And there lies the problem, we are happy to hand our children over to the schools but not happy to allow them to enforce discipline.
The "Not my little angel" response is what has gotten us to where we are now unfortunately.
What’s your definition of ‘enforce discipline’?
That should be left to the school not the parents our head can’t even expel or exclude a child nowadays without the parents coming in and shouting the odds.
So if a teacher struck your child with a cane, or slapped them you’d be fine with that?
If they had done something that deserved it then yes.
What if they hadn’t? What if the child had misbehaved but the actions did not warrant it? What is the teacher was having a bad day and took their frustration out on your child?"
Then that isn’t justified but putting excuses in there won’t solve the issues with the kids of today.
It all starts at home, we have to take responsibility and turn off the TV and make time for our children so they can integrate properly with society. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
i remember school saying they were there instead of the parents and if we were naughty then we would be dealt with accordingly - i remember some people having cane on their hands not me  - but the old blackboard rubber was often thrown across the room - ruler slapped down on the desk etc - standing in the corner - |
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"Maybe if parents stuck to the word no at an early age instead of giving in for a quiet life there wouldn't be as many issues as there are.
I can't tell you how many times a day I see parents not taking responsibility of the discipline of the child.
Kids need to learn that people mean what they say, and saying no to the kid 49 times then giving in on the 50th just teaches them if they push hard and long enough they'll get the response they want.
I hear on a daily basis "the lady is coming, she'll tell you off" no... actually, the lady won't tell you off, the lady will explain to the kid why that behaviour is not acceptable and ask them to stop.
The other one I hear loads "I'll call the policeman to take to away" smashing. Teach the kids to be afraid of the people who are there to protect them. Twats.
Where do you hear this on a daily basis?
Not saying I necessarily disagree with you. But wondering what your authority is. "
I work in a restaurant |
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"I find
"Hey you little fuck do as you are told" works ok."
 I came close today!
Had a kid standing behind a chair and tipping it back on himself. Parents blatantly ignoring. Not only was it a danger to the kid, but anyone else walking by. I said "ooops, be careful matey, don't want you getting hurt" he glared at me and did it again in slow motion. Then came the raised eyebrow and a look that could kill a small rhino. I walked away so as not to give him any attention as I had an inkling that was all he wanted. Got him some colouring and said he could have it if he sat nicely for me, he sat and we made a pinky promise to be good and stay safe. Parents barely looked up the whole time.  |
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"I find
"Hey you little fuck do as you are told" works ok.
I came close today!
Had a kid standing behind a chair and tipping it back on himself. Parents blatantly ignoring. Not only was it a danger to the kid, but anyone else walking by. I said "ooops, be careful matey, don't want you getting hurt" he glared at me and did it again in slow motion. Then came the raised eyebrow and a look that could kill a small rhino. I walked away so as not to give him any attention as I had an inkling that was all he wanted. Got him some colouring and said he could have it if he sat nicely for me, he sat and we made a pinky promise to be good and stay safe. Parents barely looked up the whole time. "
Twats
But go you |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I find
"Hey you little fuck do as you are told" works ok.
I came close today!
Had a kid standing behind a chair and tipping it back on himself. Parents blatantly ignoring. Not only was it a danger to the kid, but anyone else walking by. I said "ooops, be careful matey, don't want you getting hurt" he glared at me and did it again in slow motion. Then came the raised eyebrow and a look that could kill a small rhino. I walked away so as not to give him any attention as I had an inkling that was all he wanted. Got him some colouring and said he could have it if he sat nicely for me, he sat and we made a pinky promise to be good and stay safe. Parents barely looked up the whole time. "
Crayola? |
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"I find
"Hey you little fuck do as you are told" works ok.
I came close today!
Had a kid standing behind a chair and tipping it back on himself. Parents blatantly ignoring. Not only was it a danger to the kid, but anyone else walking by. I said "ooops, be careful matey, don't want you getting hurt" he glared at me and did it again in slow motion. Then came the raised eyebrow and a look that could kill a small rhino. I walked away so as not to give him any attention as I had an inkling that was all he wanted. Got him some colouring and said he could have it if he sat nicely for me, he sat and we made a pinky promise to be good and stay safe. Parents barely looked up the whole time.
Crayola?"
No way man, we ain't posh. |
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By *r TriomanMan
over a year ago
Chippenham Malmesbury area |
I don't think that any kind of violence reprosents discipline - love to irony of hitting a child a punishment for hitting a child.
Times have changed, it's a challenge to find new ways to maintain order.
When I joined the Army in the late 70s the regime was harsh, after we years things had change dramatically and the 'll and the bold' would bemoan the 'lack of discipline'amonst the new recruits but, it was there very same young soldier that behaved in exemparairy fashion under circumstances in Iraq and Afganistan that soldiers of my time never had to face. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And there lies the problem, we are happy to hand our children over to the schools but not happy to allow them to enforce discipline.
The "Not my little angel" response is what has gotten us to where we are now unfortunately.
What’s your definition of ‘enforce discipline’?
That should be left to the school not the parents our head can’t even expel or exclude a child nowadays without the parents coming in and shouting the odds.
So if a teacher struck your child with a cane, or slapped them you’d be fine with that?
If they had done something that deserved it then yes.
What if they hadn’t? What if the child had misbehaved but the actions did not warrant it? What is the teacher was having a bad day and took their frustration out on your child?
Then that isn’t justified but putting excuses in there won’t solve the issues with the kids of today.
It all starts at home, we have to take responsibility and turn off the TV and make time for our children so they can integrate properly with society."
You say it’s not justified but it’s too late then as it’s already happened. You also say you have to take responsibility at home but then would allow other ADULTS to hit children in their care.
Honestly my mind boggles at this, how anyone thinks it’s acceptable by any adult no matter what the reason or justification is truly beyond comprehension.
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By *ltravioletWoman
over a year ago
In amongst the Unicorns & fairy dust |
"We was chatting today to our neighbour about how the discipline have changed from back in the days where the kids had respect for authorities and teachers and how they got disciplined if they did something wrong, such as us using the ruler on the hands and nowadays where a teacher cant say or touch them, what have gone wrong, whats your view?"
young children are “ sponges “ they will learn anything and everything from their elders so that encompasses everything from respect to disrespect , if they have never experienced the good things they will never know how else to behave ( and me saying good things means respect and love for eachother )
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