FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Homeless
Homeless
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Why is it there seems to be ten times the amount of men than women? Whatever the reason I think it's absolutely disgusting that one of the world's richest countries can't sort this out." I think part of it that is due To childcare. Generally women are more likely to have custody of children from previous relationships and as such are a higher priority for accommodation. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are so many reasons for homelessness that there really is no quick solution. It's easy to blame the government for the rise in homeless numbers but much of that criticism is unfair. There are many more benefits and avenues of care than there used to be when homeless numbers were small. The real answer may be a multi agency approach as there are so many causes." And yet recent policy changes have increased homelessness.... I think there is a strong argument that this government has a lot to answer for in the current crisis we are seeing in rising numbers of people becoming homeless actually. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"An epidemic of modern times, government cut backs, charities being unable to cope, shortage of housing. But a serious question about a serious subject. Why is it there seems to be ten times the amount of men than women? Whatever the reason I think it's absolutely disgusting that one of the world's richest countries can't sort this out." I agree and they are getting younger I am a londoner so I've been used to it all my life but everywhere I go now its on the increase I've started giving what I can to the big issue or the people concerned some poor souls in Weymouth where I go a lot two couples ,what's going on ?  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"An epidemic of modern times, government cut backs, charities being unable to cope, shortage of housing. But a serious question about a serious subject. Why is it there seems to be ten times the amount of men than women? Whatever the reason I think it's absolutely disgusting that one of the world's richest countries can't sort this out.I agree and they are getting younger I am a londoner so I've been used to it all my life but everywhere I go now its on the increase I've started giving what I can to the big issue or the people concerned some poor souls in Weymouth where I go a lot two couples ,what's going on ? "i never give money - sometimes i give a hot drink or buy some food | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It is I think a total rethink is needed something drastic like taking the emphasis on cars and roads away reducing the cost of public transport and improving its usability and all the motor related revenue which is in the billions used to help with unemployment and socially affordable housing "Social housing has been replaced by affordable housing. In Barking and Dagenham Social housing rent on a 3 bed house-£115 p/w. Affordable rent on a 3 bed flat-£190 p/w. In some Boroughs affordable rent is 80% of private rented properties. When landlords home up their rents, people find they can't afford it, or when then landlord decides to cash in on the house price 44% rise by selling up, the tenant loses their home. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A lot of homeless people aren't actually homeless. Police, authorities and even homeless charities advise against giving them your money. I read in the news that a beggar in a city or town centre could get up to as much as £500 a day, but unfortunately, most of them were just in it for the beer or drug money" The Sun or Daily Mail? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It is I think a total rethink is needed something drastic like taking the emphasis on cars and roads away reducing the cost of public transport and improving its usability and all the motor related revenue which is in the billions used to help with unemployment and socially affordable housing
Social housing has been replaced by affordable housing. In Barking and Dagenham Social housing rent on a 3 bed house-£115 p/w. Affordable rent on a 3 bed flat-£190 p/w. In some Boroughs affordable rent is 80% of private rented properties. When landlords home up their rents, people find they can't afford it, or when then landlord decides to cash in on the house price 44% rise by selling up, the tenant loses their home. "yes but that's privately owned it should be government run and give the renters a time scale | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This country seems to have developed a tolerance/unfeeling attitude towards immigrants. What I mean is a people don't seem as concerned about the homeless if they are immigrants. It's like people don't give a shit ! But then you realise that it's not just the immigrants that people don't give a shit about its everyone else. Big brother and xfactor news seems far more important than a War veteran scavenging through bins for food or a family sleeping in a tent." We're encouraged to think of the homeless as subhuman. Addicts who deserve to be on the streets because they've failed in some way. Moved on so they don't offend the sensibilities of the upright citizens who have a home or spoil the look of a place if the royal family want to hold a wedding there. The reality is that a significant amount of people are one benefit sanction or delay, one redundancy notice or lack of hours on a zero hours contract away from losing the roof over their head. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This country seems to have developed a tolerance/unfeeling attitude towards immigrants. What I mean is a people don't seem as concerned about the homeless if they are immigrants. It's like people don't give a shit ! But then you realise that it's not just the immigrants that people don't give a shit about its everyone else. Big brother and xfactor news seems far more important than a War veteran scavenging through bins for food or a family sleeping in a tent. We're encouraged to think of the homeless as subhuman. Addicts who deserve to be on the streets because they've failed in some way. Moved on so they don't offend the sensibilities of the upright citizens who have a home or spoil the look of a place if the royal family want to hold a wedding there. The reality is that a significant amount of people are one benefit sanction or delay, one redundancy notice or lack of hours on a zero hours contract away from losing the roof over their head." exactly this ,one young guy in Weymouth set up camp in a disused shop front he had little notices posted all around him saying he wasn't a d*unk or a drug user or didn't want to work he just ran out of money he was there two three days and a truck turned up and ply boarded the entrance up | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A lot of homeless people aren't actually homeless. Police, authorities and even homeless charities advise against giving them your money. I read in the news that a beggar in a city or town centre could get up to as much as £500 a day, but unfortunately, most of them were just in it for the beer or drug money The Sun or Daily Mail?" If it was from ether of them papers. I wouldn't have said it | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It used to be every town had the odd homeless person in fact in smaller towns some had. Almost celebrity status For example the guy who used to live on thee Chiswick roundabout under the flyover and every day he used to write various messages for passing commuters to ponder on. My favourite being " Warning,fuck off out of it !" However You go into pretty much any town or city and the high streets are full of people sleeping rough , mattresses stacked up high shop doorways used as toilets. Yes a high proportion of drug users, but I work in social housing and have seen first hand the cutbacks closures of shelters and staffing levels cut to the point of breaking. While it may not be 100% the current government's faut. It's 100% their responsibility to sort this out." NO! Its is not 100% the responsibility of the government to sort this out. Individuals have to take some responsibility to help themselves. There are various agencies to assist and the "carry me" attitude must not prevail. Agreed the government must help, and a lot, but the assistance available now is more than ever. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Amazing how the farming industry is now complaining to the Government that because of Brexit, there are not enough foreign labourers to work on farms. Why can't these so called homeless people go to work on farms? Probably because they are not genuinely homeless as others have said - and you only have to look at their trainers and phones, all of which are better than mine to realise that they are fake homeless people. Or they are drug/alcohol addicts, and are homeless because even the Salvation Army have thrown them out of their hostels, and they are unfit for work. And if you give them money, you might as well just give them heroin directly, and cut out their drug dealer from the equation."  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Because they could behave appropriately there, when they cannot at the Salvation Army hostel. And they would complain that it is freezing cold, and falling apart, which it is. Amazing how many celebrities mansions and Labour Party MP's houses have spare rooms too." A lot of us have spare rooms. I think that its more about illustrating the huge divisions in society where some people have a spare room or rooms, some people have a spare house or houses and some people have a sleeping bag in a doorway. Not all these people are good, not all these people are bad. Not all these people deserve what they have in life. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This country seems to have developed a tolerance/unfeeling attitude towards immigrants. What I mean is a people don't seem as concerned about the homeless if they are immigrants. It's like people don't give a shit ! But then you realise that it's not just the immigrants that people don't give a shit about its everyone else. Big brother and xfactor news seems far more important than a War veteran scavenging through bins for food or a family sleeping in a tent." I agree with you there mate its so easy to get into the army but they never tell you the issues you will face afterwards my mate who is my age suffers from PTSD and there is very little help available to him considering he thought that he was fighting a good cause for his country but now his country isn’t fighting for him in the same way as they recruited him | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This country seems to have developed a tolerance/unfeeling attitude towards immigrants. What I mean is a people don't seem as concerned about the homeless if they are immigrants. It's like people don't give a shit ! But then you realise that it's not just the immigrants that people don't give a shit about its everyone else. Big brother and xfactor news seems far more important than a War veteran scavenging through bins for food or a family sleeping in a tent. I agree with you there mate its so easy to get into the army but they never tell you the issues you will face afterwards my mate who is my age suffers from PTSD and there is very little help available to him considering he thought that he was fighting a good cause for his country but now his country isn’t fighting for him in the same way as they recruited him" And how much compensation did he receive from suing the army as a result of the PTSD? What about those who were compelled to fight in the world wars and suffered far greater injuries and had no right to any compensation? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Amazing how the farming industry is now complaining to the Government that because of Brexit, there are not enough foreign labourers to work on farms. Why can't these so called homeless people go to work on farms? Probably because they are not genuinely homeless as others have said - and you only have to look at their trainers and phones, all of which are better than mine to realise that they are fake homeless people. Or they are drug/alcohol addicts, and are homeless because even the Salvation Army have thrown them out of their hostels, and they are unfit for work. And if you give them money, you might as well just give them heroin directly, and cut out their drug dealer from the equation." Totally agree with you on this one mate A large number of them do not want to work their attitude is simple they would rather stay on the streets than to work my mate here in manchester does a soup kitchen kind if thing every Thursday night in town and the amout of times I’ve been offering warehouse jobs and farming jobs to people and they decline them saying they won’t get paid enough i do not see any logic in that For homelessness to end peoples attitude towards themselves must change in order for anything to work | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Because they could behave appropriately there, when they cannot at the Salvation Army hostel. And they would complain that it is freezing cold, and falling apart, which it is. Amazing how many celebrities mansions and Labour Party MP's houses have spare rooms too." I have spare rooms in my house, and I know this might make me sound like a jolly rotten human being but I have no immediate plans to house any homeless people in them. The issue is much more complex than that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Because they could behave appropriately there, when they cannot at the Salvation Army hostel. And they would complain that it is freezing cold, and falling apart, which it is. Amazing how many celebrities mansions and Labour Party MP's houses have spare rooms too. I have spare rooms in my house, and I know this might make me sound like a jolly rotten human being but I have no immediate plans to house any homeless people in them. The issue is much more complex than that. " Because you know that they would trash your house and steal your possessions to pay for drugs and alcohol. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No one would rent to most of the homeless. That is why they are homeless, because they have been evicted from properties. If they behaved appropriately, and paid the rent, then all the empty properties would be converted and rented to them." What utter bull! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This country seems to have developed a tolerance/unfeeling attitude towards immigrants. What I mean is a people don't seem as concerned about the homeless if they are immigrants. It's like people don't give a shit ! But then you realise that it's not just the immigrants that people don't give a shit about its everyone else. Big brother and xfactor news seems far more important than a War veteran scavenging through bins for food or a family sleeping in a tent. I agree with you there mate its so easy to get into the army but they never tell you the issues you will face afterwards my mate who is my age suffers from PTSD and there is very little help available to him considering he thought that he was fighting a good cause for his country but now his country isn’t fighting for him in the same way as they recruited him And how much compensation did he receive from suing the army as a result of the PTSD? What about those who were compelled to fight in the world wars and suffered far greater injuries and had no right to any compensation?" Thanks for making an assumption that he claimed compensation No is the answer Zero Zilch Nout Nothing Last week his landlord gave him notice because he wants his house empty but he failing to get a job because of his traumas and mental health My other friend has offered him a room in his house but the point is how the government can recruit people and offer them this illustrious but thats only half of the story if it goes wrong | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No one would rent to most of the homeless. That is why they are homeless, because they have been evicted from properties. If they behaved appropriately, and paid the rent, then all the empty properties would be converted and rented to them. What utter bull!" So you'll buy a house, do it up to a perfect standard, receive no rent, have to spend money to evict the tenant, and then find it has been trashed again will you? That's why they are left empty. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Amazing how the farming industry is now complaining to the Government that because of Brexit, there are not enough foreign labourers to work on farms. Why can't these so called homeless people go to work on farms? Probably because they are not genuinely homeless as others have said - and you only have to look at their trainers and phones, all of which are better than mine to realise that they are fake homeless people. Or they are drug/alcohol addicts, and are homeless because even the Salvation Army have thrown them out of their hostels, and they are unfit for work. And if you give them money, you might as well just give them heroin directly, and cut out their drug dealer from the equation. Totally agree with you on this one mate A large number of them do not want to work their attitude is simple they would rather stay on the streets than to work my mate here in manchester does a soup kitchen kind if thing every Thursday night in town and the amout of times I’ve been offering warehouse jobs and farming jobs to people and they decline them saying they won’t get paid enough i do not see any logic in that For homelessness to end peoples attitude towards themselves must change in order for anything to work " Would the jobs enable them to earn enough to pay a deposit on a rental property then pay the rent, utilities and feed and clothe themselves. When our kids were small MrN lost his job. He came in for a lot of stick because he turned a job down. However if he'd taken it we would have very quickly gone into arrears on our mortgage. It didn't pay enough. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No one would rent to most of the homeless. That is why they are homeless, because they have been evicted from properties. If they behaved appropriately, and paid the rent, then all the empty properties would be converted and rented to them. What utter bull! So you'll buy a house, do it up to a perfect standard, receive no rent, have to spend money to evict the tenant, and then find it has been trashed again will you? That's why they are left empty." I've never been evicted from anywhere. Nor have I ever trashed anywhere! A fairly large number of homeless people are NOT drug addicts or alcoholics! And these kind of sweeping judgements are part of the problem! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I believe this is due to the de-socialisation (is that a word?) of society. There are so many people about who have no friends. Hardly anyone goes to the pub any more. People rarely pop in and see their neighbours. So when disaster strikes, people don't have anyone who can give them a hand to get back on their feet. Janet" But would that stop them from being drug and alcohol addicts? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No one would rent to most of the homeless. That is why they are homeless, because they have been evicted from properties. If they behaved appropriately, and paid the rent, then all the empty properties would be converted and rented to them. What utter bull! So you'll buy a house, do it up to a perfect standard, receive no rent, have to spend money to evict the tenant, and then find it has been trashed again will you? That's why they are left empty. I've never been evicted from anywhere. Nor have I ever trashed anywhere! A fairly large number of homeless people are NOT drug addicts or alcoholics! And these kind of sweeping judgements are part of the problem!" So why don't they get a job rather than begging on the streets all day? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Amazing how the farming industry is now complaining to the Government that because of Brexit, there are not enough foreign labourers to work on farms. Why can't these so called homeless people go to work on farms? Probably because they are not genuinely homeless as others have said - and you only have to look at their trainers and phones, all of which are better than mine to realise that they are fake homeless people. Or they are drug/alcohol addicts, and are homeless because even the Salvation Army have thrown them out of their hostels, and they are unfit for work. And if you give them money, you might as well just give them heroin directly, and cut out their drug dealer from the equation. Totally agree with you on this one mate A large number of them do not want to work their attitude is simple they would rather stay on the streets than to work my mate here in manchester does a soup kitchen kind if thing every Thursday night in town and the amout of times I’ve been offering warehouse jobs and farming jobs to people and they decline them saying they won’t get paid enough i do not see any logic in that For homelessness to end peoples attitude towards themselves must change in order for anything to work Would the jobs enable them to earn enough to pay a deposit on a rental property then pay the rent, utilities and feed and clothe themselves. When our kids were small MrN lost his job. He came in for a lot of stick because he turned a job down. However if he'd taken it we would have very quickly gone into arrears on our mortgage. It didn't pay enough." You have a point and i agree but to someone who is already on the streets what does he have to lose? At the end of the day even if it pays minimum that should get that person going and to be able to sort something else out in the meanwhile As i said the attitudes need to change with in the homeless community And btw dont get me wrong not all of them do that my friend already this year has gave 4 homeless people jobs and yes they have been able to afford a room and pay their bills and do something better So some will take the change as it comes but vast majority will not | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No one would rent to most of the homeless. That is why they are homeless, because they have been evicted from properties. If they behaved appropriately, and paid the rent, then all the empty properties would be converted and rented to them. What utter bull! So you'll buy a house, do it up to a perfect standard, receive no rent, have to spend money to evict the tenant, and then find it has been trashed again will you? That's why they are left empty. I've never been evicted from anywhere. Nor have I ever trashed anywhere! A fairly large number of homeless people are NOT drug addicts or alcoholics! And these kind of sweeping judgements are part of the problem! So why don't they get a job gather than begging on the streets all day?" I never begged. There are many reasons why someone might struggle to find work! There's too much judgement from people like yourselves for a start. Some people are on the streets through their own fault and are addicts/general wasters...SOME! The majority, however have just fallen on hard times and need a little help to get back on track. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No one would rent to most of the homeless. That is why they are homeless, because they have been evicted from properties. If they behaved appropriately, and paid the rent, then all the empty properties would be converted and rented to them. What utter bull! So you'll buy a house, do it up to a perfect standard, receive no rent, have to spend money to evict the tenant, and then find it has been trashed again will you? That's why they are left empty. I've never been evicted from anywhere. Nor have I ever trashed anywhere! A fairly large number of homeless people are NOT drug addicts or alcoholics! And these kind of sweeping judgements are part of the problem! So why don't they get a job rather than begging on the streets all day?" Tbh with you mate you aren’t providing any solutions either so stop being hostile, Why aren’t they getting jobs well the answer is as i said earlier peoples mentality needs to change towards them if there where 100 people with your mentality and they had businesses would any homeless person get a job ? No And a quick reply to your answer above about labour mp’s and their houses being empty how many torry mp’s do you know who dont have a government house and there private estate ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money." You're talking out of your ass! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Wow Some people’s attitudes really are vile "Shocking isn't it?! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money." They're really living the dream eh 
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold. "Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Because they could behave appropriately there, when they cannot at the Salvation Army hostel. And they would complain that it is freezing cold, and falling apart, which it is. Amazing how many celebrities mansions and Labour Party MP's houses have spare rooms too. A lot of us have spare rooms. I think that its more about illustrating the huge divisions in society where some people have a spare room or rooms, some people have a spare house or houses and some people have a sleeping bag in a doorway. Not all these people are good, not all these people are bad. Not all these people deserve what they have in life." Is the reason you, and these other people, have got spare rooms in your house because you take some rspinsibility for yourself, hold down a job and, through your taxes contribute to an improvement in society for everyone else? 'Homelessness' should never have been allowed, by either government, or charity, to become a career. I live in one of the nicer (I think) areas of my city. One of the big issue sellers has been operating from exactly the same spot for over 10 yrs. Unlike me she never works a night or a weekend. She knocks off at 5 on the dot every night, and pops into sainsbury's 50 yds from her pitch to do her evening's shopping. I feel this is an example of an initiative supposed to help people in crisis, which in her case allows her to make an excellent living and she sees it as a life choice rather than quick fix. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi."You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up.... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So why don't they get a job rather than begging on the streets all day?" ... no fixed abode no job... no job nowhere to live...its a vicious circle.. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So why don't they get a job rather than begging on the streets all day?... no fixed abode no job... no job nowhere to live...its a vicious circle.. " Stop being so sensible! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up.... "What debate is there? The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported. Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work. But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Wow Some people’s attitudes really are vile
Shocking isn't it?!"The lack of compassion in some people is astonishing. Even if some homeless people do have drug or alcohol issues, it's not as if they woke up one morning and thought. " I know, I am fed up with having a house and a job, I'll spend my life begging on the street and off my head on smack and cheap booze". Being homeless is shitty. I am amazed some people think otherwise. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Wow Some people’s attitudes really are vile
Shocking isn't it?!
The lack of compassion in some people is astonishing. Even if some homeless people do have drug or alcohol issues, it's not as if they woke up one morning and thought. " I know, I am fed up with having a house and a job, I'll spend my life begging on the street and off my head on smack and cheap booze".
Being homeless is shitty. I am amazed some people think otherwise. "So what would YOU do about them then? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are so many reasons for homelessness that there really is no quick solution. It's easy to blame the government for the rise in homeless numbers but much of that criticism is unfair. There are many more benefits and avenues of care than there used to be when homeless numbers were small. The real answer may be a multi agency approach as there are so many causes. And yet recent policy changes have increased homelessness.... I think there is a strong argument that this government has a lot to answer for in the current crisis we are seeing in rising numbers of people becoming homeless actually." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money." Have you ever applied for a job? Have you filled in an application form where you fill in your address and they send you a letter to come for interview? Do you get dressed up in your nicest clothes and go to that interview smelling fresh and clean? How do you prove who you are? Utility bills? Bank statements? Say you get the job. How do you keep it? Do you go home to your nice warm house and rest in your bed, awakened fresh in the morning to face a new day. Tell me again how easy it is to get a job? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Wow Some people’s attitudes really are vile
Shocking isn't it?!
The lack of compassion in some people is astonishing. Even if some homeless people do have drug or alcohol issues, it's not as if they woke up one morning and thought. " I know, I am fed up with having a house and a job, I'll spend my life begging on the street and off my head on smack and cheap booze".
Being homeless is shitty. I am amazed some people think otherwise.
So what would YOU do about them then? "Astonishingly enough, I don't think I have all the solutions to the problem. It's a bit more complex than mouthing random slogans on a sex site. Where I am astonished is that anyone would think anyone would end up on the streets unless they had serious issues. It's not a lifestyle choice. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Wow Some people’s attitudes really are vile
Shocking isn't it?!
The lack of compassion in some people is astonishing. Even if some homeless people do have drug or alcohol issues, it's not as if they woke up one morning and thought. " I know, I am fed up with having a house and a job, I'll spend my life begging on the street and off my head on smack and cheap booze".
Being homeless is shitty. I am amazed some people think otherwise.
So what would YOU do about them then?
Astonishingly enough, I don't think I have all the solutions to the problem. It's a bit more complex than mouthing random slogans on a sex site.
Where I am astonished is that anyone would think anyone would end up on the streets unless they had serious issues. It's not a lifestyle choice. "So you have no suggestions whatsoever? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up....
What debate is there?
The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported.
Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work.
But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers."What tosh... I worked with "shelter" and the vast majority where desperate to try and sort their lives out...  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. Have you ever applied for a job? Have you filled in an application form where you fill in your address and they send you a letter to come for interview? Do you get dressed up in your nicest clothes and go to that interview smelling fresh and clean? How do you prove who you are? Utility bills? Bank statements? Say you get the job. How do you keep it? Do you go home to your nice warm house and rest in your bed, awakened fresh in the morning to face a new day. Tell me again how easy it is to get a job?" And as jobs go, sitting on the streets begging for money is a pretty shitty one. Low pay, crap working conditions and humiliation built into it. Working in Macdonalds, if you can get it, is luxury by comparison. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Wow Some people’s attitudes really are vile
Shocking isn't it?!
The lack of compassion in some people is astonishing. Even if some homeless people do have drug or alcohol issues, it's not as if they woke up one morning and thought. " I know, I am fed up with having a house and a job, I'll spend my life begging on the street and off my head on smack and cheap booze".
Being homeless is shitty. I am amazed some people think otherwise. "Being alcoholic or being addicted to drugs must be treated as a disease. But, the decision to start using them must be acknowledged as a choice. By the point of homelessness very few drug addicts want to give up this lifestyle. They are terrified of having to adapt back into a 'real' world, losing their social contacts and their freedom from any form of social responsibility | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up....
What debate is there?
The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported.
Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work.
But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers."So what about the people who are homeless through a run of bad luck, illness or an event that has landed them in tough times? Those who don't take drugs or drink? What about those who have turned to drugs as an escape because they've experienced something horrendous and can't cope? Attitudes like yours are exactly the problem! You make a sweeping judgement and tar people with the same brush. Educate yourself. Visit a soup kitchen, or a charity you seem to know so much about. Walk around your local city center and talk to the people sleeping rough, then you'll see that it's actually a pretty small percentage of them that are wasters who don't want/deserve help! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Wow Some people’s attitudes really are vile
Shocking isn't it?!
The lack of compassion in some people is astonishing. Even if some homeless people do have drug or alcohol issues, it's not as if they woke up one morning and thought. " I know, I am fed up with having a house and a job, I'll spend my life begging on the street and off my head on smack and cheap booze".
Being homeless is shitty. I am amazed some people think otherwise.
Being alcoholic or being addicted to drugs must be treated as a disease. But, the decision to start using them must be acknowledged as a choice.
By the point of homelessness very few drug addicts want to give up this lifestyle. They are terrified of having to adapt back into a 'real' world, losing their social contacts and their freedom from any form of social responsibility "Why people get addicted to drugs and so is generally linked with adverse life events. Most of us choose to take intoxicating substances of one form or another but we don't get addicted to them. On the latter point, if you asked an addict if wanted to be free of his addiction, I am sure most would say yes. I did criminal defence work for many years and what's of my clients were addicts. They lived utterly miserable lives, stealing to fund habits, in and out of prison, being beaten up by dealers and so on. They would have loved to be free of the addiction itch. It's fucking difficult to beat addiction however. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up....
What debate is there?
The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported.
Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work.
But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers."You do realise that economic migrants also include doctors, nurses, engineers, it consultants and so on Yes deport the illegal migrants who have nothing to offer but if we do as you say and get rid of economic migrants then businesses will be shutting all all around you farmers will be left stranded and the NHS will collapse if it already isn’t because alot of the work force is actually economic migrants If it was upto you we would have no economy at all And little history on economic migrants they haven’t just came to this country in recent years economic migrants have been wanted here for centuries my grandad was also an economic migrants and when he landed here there was a queue of factory owners and farm owners who would be waiting at the airport to pick them up because they needed the workforce after the world wars | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Wow Some people’s attitudes really are vile
Shocking isn't it?!
The lack of compassion in some people is astonishing. Even if some homeless people do have drug or alcohol issues, it's not as if they woke up one morning and thought. " I know, I am fed up with having a house and a job, I'll spend my life begging on the street and off my head on smack and cheap booze".
Being homeless is shitty. I am amazed some people think otherwise.
Being alcoholic or being addicted to drugs must be treated as a disease. But, the decision to start using them must be acknowledged as a choice.
By the point of homelessness very few drug addicts want to give up this lifestyle. They are terrified of having to adapt back into a 'real' world, losing their social contacts and their freedom from any form of social responsibility "I would agree with this to a point. The decision to start is not always conscious nor informed and is often the lesser of two evils. I also agree with your second point. Humans are creatures of habit, we adapt to our circumstances and things become "the norm" and it's hard to break from that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up....
What debate is there?
The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported.
Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work.
But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers.
You do realise that economic migrants also include doctors, nurses, engineers, it consultants and so on
Yes deport the illegal migrants who have nothing to offer but if we do as you say and get rid of economic migrants then businesses will be shutting all all around you farmers will be left stranded and the NHS will collapse if it already isn’t because alot of the work force is actually economic migrants
If it was upto you we would have no economy at all
And little history on economic migrants they haven’t just came to this country in recent years economic migrants have been wanted here for centuries my grandad was also an economic migrants and when he landed here there was a queue of factory owners and farm owners who would be waiting at the airport to pick them up because they needed the workforce after the world wars "I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves. Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up....
What debate is there?
The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported.
Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work.
But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers.
You do realise that economic migrants also include doctors, nurses, engineers, it consultants and so on
Yes deport the illegal migrants who have nothing to offer but if we do as you say and get rid of economic migrants then businesses will be shutting all all around you farmers will be left stranded and the NHS will collapse if it already isn’t because alot of the work force is actually economic migrants
If it was upto you we would have no economy at all
And little history on economic migrants they haven’t just came to this country in recent years economic migrants have been wanted here for centuries my grandad was also an economic migrants and when he landed here there was a queue of factory owners and farm owners who would be waiting at the airport to pick them up because they needed the workforce after the world wars
I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves.
Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought. "Can't imagine he'd object much if he needed one of them to operate on him in an emergency... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up....
What debate is there?
The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported.
Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work.
But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers.
You do realise that economic migrants also include doctors, nurses, engineers, it consultants and so on
Yes deport the illegal migrants who have nothing to offer but if we do as you say and get rid of economic migrants then businesses will be shutting all all around you farmers will be left stranded and the NHS will collapse if it already isn’t because alot of the work force is actually economic migrants
If it was upto you we would have no economy at all
And little history on economic migrants they haven’t just came to this country in recent years economic migrants have been wanted here for centuries my grandad was also an economic migrants and when he landed here there was a queue of factory owners and farm owners who would be waiting at the airport to pick them up because they needed the workforce after the world wars
I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves.
Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought. "And they pay tax. To this country. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Some of the judgemental comments on here... they don't leave me speechless...but it's better that I am. We all all often no more than two paychecks away from joining the homeless! Just before Christmas a man died on the streets of Edinburgh. He used to sit outside the station was ex military like many other homeless people. I used to talk with him. To those who have been so dismissive of the homeless I have two requests... Today talk to a homeless person buy them a drink or a sandwich.. And before you rage against the system or blame the homeless for whatever prejudice drives your comments... Spend just one night sleeping on the streets.. It may just change your views." Well said that man!!! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up....
What debate is there?
The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported.
Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work.
But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers.
You do realise that economic migrants also include doctors, nurses, engineers, it consultants and so on
Yes deport the illegal migrants who have nothing to offer but if we do as you say and get rid of economic migrants then businesses will be shutting all all around you farmers will be left stranded and the NHS will collapse if it already isn’t because alot of the work force is actually economic migrants
If it was upto you we would have no economy at all
And little history on economic migrants they haven’t just came to this country in recent years economic migrants have been wanted here for centuries my grandad was also an economic migrants and when he landed here there was a queue of factory owners and farm owners who would be waiting at the airport to pick them up because they needed the workforce after the world wars
I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves.
Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought. "It’s strange mate, The question you need to ask is why does that prejudice exist ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up....
What debate is there?
The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported.
Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work.
But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers.
You do realise that economic migrants also include doctors, nurses, engineers, it consultants and so on
Yes deport the illegal migrants who have nothing to offer but if we do as you say and get rid of economic migrants then businesses will be shutting all all around you farmers will be left stranded and the NHS will collapse if it already isn’t because alot of the work force is actually economic migrants
If it was upto you we would have no economy at all
And little history on economic migrants they haven’t just came to this country in recent years economic migrants have been wanted here for centuries my grandad was also an economic migrants and when he landed here there was a queue of factory owners and farm owners who would be waiting at the airport to pick them up because they needed the workforce after the world wars
I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves.
Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought.
Can't imagine he'd object much if he needed one of them to operate on him in an emergency... "No would he hell object but in that situation he wouldn’t notice that it’s a migrant But if asians or muslims do something wrong we all get labelled for it. Not in my name. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up....
What debate is there?
The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported.
Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work.
But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers.
You do realise that economic migrants also include doctors, nurses, engineers, it consultants and so on
Yes deport the illegal migrants who have nothing to offer but if we do as you say and get rid of economic migrants then businesses will be shutting all all around you farmers will be left stranded and the NHS will collapse if it already isn’t because alot of the work force is actually economic migrants
If it was upto you we would have no economy at all
And little history on economic migrants they haven’t just came to this country in recent years economic migrants have been wanted here for centuries my grandad was also an economic migrants and when he landed here there was a queue of factory owners and farm owners who would be waiting at the airport to pick them up because they needed the workforce after the world wars
I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves.
Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought.
And they pay tax. To this country. "Pay taxes and build a strong economy together | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up....
What debate is there?
The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported.
Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work.
But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers.
You do realise that economic migrants also include doctors, nurses, engineers, it consultants and so on
Yes deport the illegal migrants who have nothing to offer but if we do as you say and get rid of economic migrants then businesses will be shutting all all around you farmers will be left stranded and the NHS will collapse if it already isn’t because alot of the work force is actually economic migrants
If it was upto you we would have no economy at all
And little history on economic migrants they haven’t just came to this country in recent years economic migrants have been wanted here for centuries my grandad was also an economic migrants and when he landed here there was a queue of factory owners and farm owners who would be waiting at the airport to pick them up because they needed the workforce after the world wars
I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves.
Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought.
Can't imagine he'd object much if he needed one of them to operate on him in an emergency...
No would he hell object but in that situation he wouldn’t notice that it’s a migrant
But if asians or muslims do something wrong we all get labelled for it.
Not in my name."Totally agree! It's bollocks isn't it?! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up....
What debate is there?
The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported.
Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work.
But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers.
You do realise that economic migrants also include doctors, nurses, engineers, it consultants and so on
Yes deport the illegal migrants who have nothing to offer but if we do as you say and get rid of economic migrants then businesses will be shutting all all around you farmers will be left stranded and the NHS will collapse if it already isn’t because alot of the work force is actually economic migrants
If it was upto you we would have no economy at all
And little history on economic migrants they haven’t just came to this country in recent years economic migrants have been wanted here for centuries my grandad was also an economic migrants and when he landed here there was a queue of factory owners and farm owners who would be waiting at the airport to pick them up because they needed the workforce after the world wars
I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves.
Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought.
Can't imagine he'd object much if he needed one of them to operate on him in an emergency...
No would he hell object but in that situation he wouldn’t notice that it’s a migrant
But if asians or muslims do something wrong we all get labelled for it.
Not in my name.
Totally agree! It's bollocks isn't it?!
"I’ve always been told to love and respect people and I’m an asian muslim so why have my parents told me different? If all are the same ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up....
What debate is there?
The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported.
Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work.
But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers.
You do realise that economic migrants also include doctors, nurses, engineers, it consultants and so on
Yes deport the illegal migrants who have nothing to offer but if we do as you say and get rid of economic migrants then businesses will be shutting all all around you farmers will be left stranded and the NHS will collapse if it already isn’t because alot of the work force is actually economic migrants
If it was upto you we would have no economy at all
And little history on economic migrants they haven’t just came to this country in recent years economic migrants have been wanted here for centuries my grandad was also an economic migrants and when he landed here there was a queue of factory owners and farm owners who would be waiting at the airport to pick them up because they needed the workforce after the world wars
I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves.
Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought.
Can't imagine he'd object much if he needed one of them to operate on him in an emergency...
No would he hell object but in that situation he wouldn’t notice that it’s a migrant
But if asians or muslims do something wrong we all get labelled for it.
Not in my name.
Totally agree! It's bollocks isn't it?!
I’ve always been told to love and respect people and I’m an asian muslim so why have my parents told me different?
If all are the same ? "Good people are good people regardless of their race or religion...works the same with bad people. Any religious scripture can be interpreted in a negative way, it's down to that person and often what/how their being taught. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up....
What debate is there?
The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported.
Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work.
But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers.
You do realise that economic migrants also include doctors, nurses, engineers, it consultants and so on
Yes deport the illegal migrants who have nothing to offer but if we do as you say and get rid of economic migrants then businesses will be shutting all all around you farmers will be left stranded and the NHS will collapse if it already isn’t because alot of the work force is actually economic migrants
If it was upto you we would have no economy at all
And little history on economic migrants they haven’t just came to this country in recent years economic migrants have been wanted here for centuries my grandad was also an economic migrants and when he landed here there was a queue of factory owners and farm owners who would be waiting at the airport to pick them up because they needed the workforce after the world wars
I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves.
Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought.
Can't imagine he'd object much if he needed one of them to operate on him in an emergency...
No would he hell object but in that situation he wouldn’t notice that it’s a migrant
But if asians or muslims do something wrong we all get labelled for it.
Not in my name.
Totally agree! It's bollocks isn't it?!
"We are talking about homeless people. So if they are a migrant doctor and not homeless, then we are not concerned about deporting them. Only homeless economic and illegal migrants. That was obvious from my post in a thread about homeless people. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up....
What debate is there?
The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported.
Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work.
But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers.
You do realise that economic migrants also include doctors, nurses, engineers, it consultants and so on
Yes deport the illegal migrants who have nothing to offer but if we do as you say and get rid of economic migrants then businesses will be shutting all all around you farmers will be left stranded and the NHS will collapse if it already isn’t because alot of the work force is actually economic migrants
If it was upto you we would have no economy at all
And little history on economic migrants they haven’t just came to this country in recent years economic migrants have been wanted here for centuries my grandad was also an economic migrants and when he landed here there was a queue of factory owners and farm owners who would be waiting at the airport to pick them up because they needed the workforce after the world wars
I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves.
Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought.
Can't imagine he'd object much if he needed one of them to operate on him in an emergency...
No would he hell object but in that situation he wouldn’t notice that it’s a migrant
But if asians or muslims do something wrong we all get labelled for it.
Not in my name.
Totally agree! It's bollocks isn't it?!
I’ve always been told to love and respect people and I’m an asian muslim so why have my parents told me different?
If all are the same ?
Good people are good people regardless of their race or religion...works the same with bad people.
Any religious scripture can be interpreted in a negative way, it's down to that person and often what/how their being taught.
"Hit the nail on the head right there mate | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up....
What debate is there?
The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported.
Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work.
But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers.
You do realise that economic migrants also include doctors, nurses, engineers, it consultants and so on
Yes deport the illegal migrants who have nothing to offer but if we do as you say and get rid of economic migrants then businesses will be shutting all all around you farmers will be left stranded and the NHS will collapse if it already isn’t because alot of the work force is actually economic migrants
If it was upto you we would have no economy at all
And little history on economic migrants they haven’t just came to this country in recent years economic migrants have been wanted here for centuries my grandad was also an economic migrants and when he landed here there was a queue of factory owners and farm owners who would be waiting at the airport to pick them up because they needed the workforce after the world wars
I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves.
Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought.
Can't imagine he'd object much if he needed one of them to operate on him in an emergency...
No would he hell object but in that situation he wouldn’t notice that it’s a migrant
But if asians or muslims do something wrong we all get labelled for it.
Not in my name.
Totally agree! It's bollocks isn't it?!
We are talking about homeless people. So if they are a migrant doctor and not homeless, then we are not concerned about deporting them. Only homeless economic and illegal migrants. That was obvious from my post in a thread about homeless people."I think you'll find it challenged you on that point... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up....
What debate is there?
The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported.
Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work.
But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers.
You do realise that economic migrants also include doctors, nurses, engineers, it consultants and so on
Yes deport the illegal migrants who have nothing to offer but if we do as you say and get rid of economic migrants then businesses will be shutting all all around you farmers will be left stranded and the NHS will collapse if it already isn’t because alot of the work force is actually economic migrants
If it was upto you we would have no economy at all
And little history on economic migrants they haven’t just came to this country in recent years economic migrants have been wanted here for centuries my grandad was also an economic migrants and when he landed here there was a queue of factory owners and farm owners who would be waiting at the airport to pick them up because they needed the workforce after the world wars
I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves.
Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought.
Can't imagine he'd object much if he needed one of them to operate on him in an emergency...
No would he hell object but in that situation he wouldn’t notice that it’s a migrant
But if asians or muslims do something wrong we all get labelled for it.
Not in my name.
Totally agree! It's bollocks isn't it?!
We are talking about homeless people. So if they are a migrant doctor and not homeless, then we are not concerned about deporting them. Only homeless economic and illegal migrants. That was obvious from my post in a thread about homeless people."No where in that paragraph about economic migrants did you mention Homeless economic migrants so please don’t try and correct me if you’re not correct yourself Thank you | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves. Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought. And they pay tax. To this country. Pay taxes and build a strong economy together " The prejudice is against economic migrants working illegally. A guy being paid cash to pick potatoes and send the money back to his Albanian mafia boss is hardly paying tax or benefitting the economy. Other countries have skills based immigration and actually kick out the people who are not contributing | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up....
What debate is there?
The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported.
Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work.
But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers.
You do realise that economic migrants also include doctors, nurses, engineers, it consultants and so on
Yes deport the illegal migrants who have nothing to offer but if we do as you say and get rid of economic migrants then businesses will be shutting all all around you farmers will be left stranded and the NHS will collapse if it already isn’t because alot of the work force is actually economic migrants
If it was upto you we would have no economy at all
And little history on economic migrants they haven’t just came to this country in recent years economic migrants have been wanted here for centuries my grandad was also an economic migrants and when he landed here there was a queue of factory owners and farm owners who would be waiting at the airport to pick them up because they needed the workforce after the world wars
I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves.
Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought.
Can't imagine he'd object much if he needed one of them to operate on him in an emergency...
No would he hell object but in that situation he wouldn’t notice that it’s a migrant
But if asians or muslims do something wrong we all get labelled for it.
Not in my name.
Totally agree! It's bollocks isn't it?!
We are talking about homeless people. So if they are a migrant doctor and not homeless, then we are not concerned about deporting them. Only homeless economic and illegal migrants. That was obvious from my post in a thread about homeless people.
I think you'll find it challenged you on that point..."He hasn’t posted a single reply to any of my answers to his questions it shows that he must be just bored and thought ‘ohh let me rattle some people on here today’ | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The real reason that they don't find work is because they don't want to. It's easier to sit on the street with a bit of cardboard conning gullible people out of money. They're really living the dream eh
I've seen some idiotic shit on this forum but this wins the gold.
Fine. Keep being conned and funding their drug dealer's new Audi.
You seem to be totally ignoring any real debate and just trying to rile people up....
What debate is there?
The illegal immigrants/economic migrants should be deported.
Money should be allocated to get the drug/alcohol addicts off the streets and into work.
But guess what? Most are incapable of rehabilitation. Just ask the charity project workers.
You do realise that economic migrants also include doctors, nurses, engineers, it consultants and so on
Yes deport the illegal migrants who have nothing to offer but if we do as you say and get rid of economic migrants then businesses will be shutting all all around you farmers will be left stranded and the NHS will collapse if it already isn’t because alot of the work force is actually economic migrants
If it was upto you we would have no economy at all
And little history on economic migrants they haven’t just came to this country in recent years economic migrants have been wanted here for centuries my grandad was also an economic migrants and when he landed here there was a queue of factory owners and farm owners who would be waiting at the airport to pick them up because they needed the workforce after the world wars
I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves.
Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought.
Can't imagine he'd object much if he needed one of them to operate on him in an emergency...
No would he hell object but in that situation he wouldn’t notice that it’s a migrant
But if asians or muslims do something wrong we all get labelled for it.
Not in my name.
Totally agree! It's bollocks isn't it?!
We are talking about homeless people. So if they are a migrant doctor and not homeless, then we are not concerned about deporting them. Only homeless economic and illegal migrants. That was obvious from my post in a thread about homeless people.
No where in that paragraph about economic migrants did you mention
Homeless economic migrants so please don’t try and correct me if you’re not correct yourself
Thank you"It's blatantly obvious he hasn't got a clue what he's on about tbf | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves. Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought. And they pay tax. To this country. Pay taxes and build a strong economy together The prejudice is against economic migrants working illegally. A guy being paid cash to pick potatoes and send the money back to his Albanian mafia boss is hardly paying tax or benefitting the economy. Other countries have skills based immigration and actually kick out the people who are not contributing" Eh? If he's here illegally and not paying tax, he will be kicked out if he is caught. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves. Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought. And they pay tax. To this country. Pay taxes and build a strong economy together The prejudice is against economic migrants working illegally. A guy being paid cash to pick potatoes and send the money back to his Albanian mafia boss is hardly paying tax or benefitting the economy. Other countries have skills based immigration and actually kick out the people who are not contributing" Actually if you do your research then you will find out that 99.9% of workers who work in farm fields picking potatoes pay taxes as they have to in order to stay in the countey and yes the illegal ones dont and they should be chuked out i agree | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves. Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought. And they pay tax. To this country. Pay taxes and build a strong economy together The prejudice is against economic migrants working illegally. A guy being paid cash to pick potatoes and send the money back to his Albanian mafia boss is hardly paying tax or benefitting the economy. Other countries have skills based immigration and actually kick out the people who are not contributing Actually if you do your research then you will find out that 99.9% of workers who work in farm fields picking potatoes pay taxes as they have to in order to stay in the countey and yes the illegal ones dont and they should be chuked out i agree" I'm not sure where you have done your 'research', but I've just googled 'percentage of fruit pickers paid in cash and paying tax' and I didn't see the figure 99.9% on any of the first 5 pages. Perhaps it's a fraction closer to 0.1% | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves. Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought. And they pay tax. To this country. Pay taxes and build a strong economy together The prejudice is against economic migrants working illegally. A guy being paid cash to pick potatoes and send the money back to his Albanian mafia boss is hardly paying tax or benefitting the economy. Other countries have skills based immigration and actually kick out the people who are not contributing Actually if you do your research then you will find out that 99.9% of workers who work in farm fields picking potatoes pay taxes as they have to in order to stay in the countey and yes the illegal ones dont and they should be chuked out i agree I'm not sure where you have done your 'research', but I've just googled 'percentage of fruit pickers paid in cash and paying tax' and I didn't see the figure 99.9% on any of the first 5 pages. Perhaps it's a fraction closer to 0.1%" There are severe penalties on employers if they employ illegal workers. A farmer who has massive visible fields is unlikely to take the risk. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves. Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought. And they pay tax. To this country. Pay taxes and build a strong economy together The prejudice is against economic migrants working illegally. A guy being paid cash to pick potatoes and send the money back to his Albanian mafia boss is hardly paying tax or benefitting the economy. Other countries have skills based immigration and actually kick out the people who are not contributing Actually if you do your research then you will find out that 99.9% of workers who work in farm fields picking potatoes pay taxes as they have to in order to stay in the countey and yes the illegal ones dont and they should be chuked out i agree I'm not sure where you have done your 'research', but I've just googled 'percentage of fruit pickers paid in cash and paying tax' and I didn't see the figure 99.9% on any of the first 5 pages. Perhaps it's a fraction closer to 0.1% There are severe penalties on employers if they employ illegal workers. A farmer who has massive visible fields is unlikely to take the risk. " Thats what I’m trying to say | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I have always thought the prejudice against economic migrants a bit strange. They are the people who have the initiative to get off their arses and travel to a foreign country to better themselves. Exactly the sort of people you would want I would have thought. And they pay tax. To this country. Pay taxes and build a strong economy together The prejudice is against economic migrants working illegally. A guy being paid cash to pick potatoes and send the money back to his Albanian mafia boss is hardly paying tax or benefitting the economy. Other countries have skills based immigration and actually kick out the people who are not contributing Actually if you do your research then you will find out that 99.9% of workers who work in farm fields picking potatoes pay taxes as they have to in order to stay in the countey and yes the illegal ones dont and they should be chuked out i agree I'm not sure where you have done your 'research', but I've just googled 'percentage of fruit pickers paid in cash and paying tax' and I didn't see the figure 99.9% on any of the first 5 pages. Perhaps it's a fraction closer to 0.1% There are severe penalties on employers if they employ illegal workers. A farmer who has massive visible fields is unlikely to take the risk. " Well done now you can use google add that to your CV Btw i didnt mean literally what i was meaning was that they wouldn’t take the risk in giving hem jobs | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Because they could behave appropriately there, when they cannot at the Salvation Army hostel. And they would complain that it is freezing cold, and falling apart, which it is. Amazing how many celebrities mansions and Labour Party MP's houses have spare rooms too. A lot of us have spare rooms. I think that its more about illustrating the huge divisions in society where some people have a spare room or rooms, some people have a spare house or houses and some people have a sleeping bag in a doorway. Not all these people are good, not all these people are bad. Not all these people deserve what they have in life. Is the reason you, and these other people, have got spare rooms in your house because you take some rspinsibility for yourself, hold down a job and, through your taxes contribute to an improvement in society for everyone else? 'Homelessness' should never have been allowed, by either government, or charity, to become a career. I live in one of the nicer (I think) areas of my city. One of the big issue sellers has been operating from exactly the same spot for over 10 yrs. Unlike me she never works a night or a weekend. She knocks off at 5 on the dot every night, and pops into sainsbury's 50 yds from her pitch to do her evening's shopping. I feel this is an example of an initiative supposed to help people in crisis, which in her case allows her to make an excellent living and she sees it as a life choice rather than quick fix." I hoped that my post showed that I don't believe that everyone in fortunate or unfortunate positions deserves to be there. I know and fully understand that some homeless people are there because they lack the desire to change or through substance abuse etc but many are not. Similarly while I and my partner have a house with a spare room because we worked hard, went without stuff etc not everyone in that position did, they have it through accident of birth, the proceeds of crime or simply because they were the lucky one who didn't get made redundant or suffer ill health. Selling the Big Issue is a job by the way. Its a social business that aims to help people reintegrate. I'm not sure that there's a tlimit on how long people can do it, what their hours should be or where they can shop. As far as I know Big Issue sellers are self employed. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No one would rent to most of the homeless. That is why they are homeless, because they have been evicted from properties. If they behaved appropriately, and paid the rent, then all the empty properties would be converted and rented to them. What utter bull! So you'll buy a house, do it up to a perfect standard, receive no rent, have to spend money to evict the tenant, and then find it has been trashed again will you? That's why they are left empty. I've never been evicted from anywhere. Nor have I ever trashed anywhere! A fairly large number of homeless people are NOT drug addicts or alcoholics! And these kind of sweeping judgements are part of the problem! So why don't they get a job rather than begging on the streets all day? Tbh with you mate you aren’t providing any solutions either so stop being hostile, Why aren’t they getting jobs well the answer is as i said earlier peoples mentality needs to change towards them if there where 100 people with your mentality and they had businesses would any homeless person get a job ? No And a quick reply to your answer above about labour mp’s and their houses being empty how many torry mp’s do you know who dont have a government house and there private estate ? " people who are qualified can't get jobs its more than just one aspect that causes this ,its a whole array of things from mental health ,too laziness ,too drug and alcohol abuse to lack of affordable social housing | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Not much but rather than money,IL give a homeless person,usually older guy sitting on street food and dog food for some I've seen with animals with them,could easy be any of us!" We're lucky, we have family who would take us in and vice versa. It must be awful to be in a position where you have nowhere to turn. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Not much but rather than money,IL give a homeless person,usually older guy sitting on street food and dog food for some I've seen with animals with them,could easy be any of us! We're lucky, we have family who would take us in and vice versa. It must be awful to be in a position where you have nowhere to turn." its so easy if all you have is immediate family to turn to | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Because they could behave appropriately there, when they cannot at the Salvation Army hostel. And they would complain that it is freezing cold, and falling apart, which it is. Amazing how many celebrities mansions and Labour Party MP's houses have spare rooms too. A lot of us have spare rooms. I think that its more about illustrating the huge divisions in society where some people have a spare room or rooms, some people have a spare house or houses and some people have a sleeping bag in a doorway. Not all these people are good, not all these people are bad. Not all these people deserve what they have in life. Is the reason you, and these other people, have got spare rooms in your house because you take some rspinsibility for yourself, hold down a job and, through your taxes contribute to an improvement in society for everyone else? 'Homelessness' should never have been allowed, by either government, or charity, to become a career. I live in one of the nicer (I think) areas of my city. One of the big issue sellers has been operating from exactly the same spot for over 10 yrs. Unlike me she never works a night or a weekend. She knocks off at 5 on the dot every night, and pops into sainsbury's 50 yds from her pitch to do her evening's shopping. I feel this is an example of an initiative supposed to help people in crisis, which in her case allows her to make an excellent living and she sees it as a life choice rather than quick fix. I hoped that my post showed that I don't believe that everyone in fortunate or unfortunate positions deserves to be there. I know and fully understand that some homeless people are there because they lack the desire to change or through substance abuse etc but many are not. Similarly while I and my partner have a house with a spare room because we worked hard, went without stuff etc not everyone in that position did, they have it through accident of birth, the proceeds of crime or simply because they were the lucky one who didn't get made redundant or suffer ill health. Selling the Big Issue is a job by the way. Its a social business that aims to help people reintegrate. I'm not sure that there's a tlimit on how long people can do it, what their hours should be or where they can shop. As far as I know Big Issue sellers are self employed." And after that period of time I'm supposing you can call yourself re-integrated, and find alternative. At the very least, give someone else a chance. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It is I think a total rethink is needed something drastic like taking the emphasis on cars and roads away reducing the cost of public transport and improving its usability and all the motor related revenue which is in the billions used to help with unemployment and socially affordable housing
Social housing has been replaced by affordable housing. In Barking and Dagenham Social housing rent on a 3 bed house-£115 p/w. Affordable rent on a 3 bed flat-£190 p/w. In some Boroughs affordable rent is 80% of private rented properties. When landlords home up their rents, people find they can't afford it, or when then landlord decides to cash in on the house price 44% rise by selling up, the tenant loses their home. yes but that's privately owned it should be government run and give the renters a time scale "Why give them a time scale? Are you saying if they don't earn enough money to buy or rent private in a certain amount of time they get kicked out? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This is a really bloody tricky one... Lots of the points already made above are relevant and valid. Homelessness across genders is a travesty to even be a thing in a so called developed country. One potential factor can be that unfortunately those that need help sometimes can't or won't ask for it. This goes over in to the point about suicide being so much higher on the male population too though. It's easy to say get help. Sometimes taking the actual step is a huge chasm to cross." Even getting help can mean being in temporary accommodation and told to find a room for a limited amount of money. With the prices of renting soaring it's difficult for someone to find a place. Barking and Dagenham have more private properties rented out to other Boroughs because they pay more than B&D can. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"To answer the OP's question it's because more women than men are given priority by local authorities and also because when a relationship breaks up it's usually the man that has to move out." And more men leaving the forces with no family. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It is I think a total rethink is needed something drastic like taking the emphasis on cars and roads away reducing the cost of public transport and improving its usability and all the motor related revenue which is in the billions used to help with unemployment and socially affordable housing
Social housing has been replaced by affordable housing. In Barking and Dagenham Social housing rent on a 3 bed house-£115 p/w. Affordable rent on a 3 bed flat-£190 p/w. In some Boroughs affordable rent is 80% of private rented properties. When landlords home up their rents, people find they can't afford it, or when then landlord decides to cash in on the house price 44% rise by selling up, the tenant loses their home. yes but that's privately owned it should be government run and give the renters a time scale
Why give them a time scale? Are you saying if they don't earn enough money to buy or rent private in a certain amount of time they get kicked out? "no so that they have time on their side if things go wrong and they have to be rehoused for whatever reason | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Whatever the reason I think it's absolutely disgusting that one of the world's richest countries can't sort this out." I agree. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This is a really bloody tricky one... Lots of the points already made above are relevant and valid. Homelessness across genders is a travesty to even be a thing in a so called developed country. One potential factor can be that unfortunately those that need help sometimes can't or won't ask for it. This goes over in to the point about suicide being so much higher on the male population too though. It's easy to say get help. Sometimes taking the actual step is a huge chasm to cross. Even getting help can mean being in temporary accommodation and told to find a room for a limited amount of money. With the prices of renting soaring it's difficult for someone to find a place. Barking and Dagenham have more private properties rented out to other Boroughs because they pay more than B&D can. " True. Another additional hoop to jump through. It's be interesting to see what the landlords would say if confronted about their greed. But that's a different issue. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Because they could behave appropriately there, when they cannot at the Salvation Army hostel. And they would complain that it is freezing cold, and falling apart, which it is. Amazing how many celebrities mansions and Labour Party MP's houses have spare rooms too. A lot of us have spare rooms. I think that its more about illustrating the huge divisions in society where some people have a spare room or rooms, some people have a spare house or houses and some people have a sleeping bag in a doorway. Not all these people are good, not all these people are bad. Not all these people deserve what they have in life. Is the reason you, and these other people, have got spare rooms in your house because you take some rspinsibility for yourself, hold down a job and, through your taxes contribute to an improvement in society for everyone else? 'Homelessness' should never have been allowed, by either government, or charity, to become a career. I live in one of the nicer (I think) areas of my city. One of the big issue sellers has been operating from exactly the same spot for over 10 yrs. Unlike me she never works a night or a weekend. She knocks off at 5 on the dot every night, and pops into sainsbury's 50 yds from her pitch to do her evening's shopping. I feel this is an example of an initiative supposed to help people in crisis, which in her case allows her to make an excellent living and she sees it as a life choice rather than quick fix. I hoped that my post showed that I don't believe that everyone in fortunate or unfortunate positions deserves to be there. I know and fully understand that some homeless people are there because they lack the desire to change or through substance abuse etc but many are not. Similarly while I and my partner have a house with a spare room because we worked hard, went without stuff etc not everyone in that position did, they have it through accident of birth, the proceeds of crime or simply because they were the lucky one who didn't get made redundant or suffer ill health. Selling the Big Issue is a job by the way. Its a social business that aims to help people reintegrate. I'm not sure that there's a tlimit on how long people can do it, what their hours should be or where they can shop. As far as I know Big Issue sellers are self employed. And after that period of time I'm supposing you can call yourself re-integrated, and find alternative. At the very least, give someone else a chance. " How do you know she's not looking? Would you give up your job to give someone else a chance? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" While it may not be 100% the current government's faut. It's 100% their responsibility to sort this out." This. And I think it's important to differentiate between the homeless and rough sleepers. The numbers of actual rough sleepers, while growing, it's still low enough to be manageable and wouldn't take a great deal of money to sort out. There will always be a certain number of rough sleepers, some are there through choice, but getting the ones off the street who wanted too just takes a bit of money and the political will. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I believe this is due to the de-socialisation (is that a word?) of society. There are so many people about who have no friends. Hardly anyone goes to the pub any more. People rarely pop in and see their neighbours. So when disaster strikes, people don't have anyone who can give them a hand to get back on their feet. Janet" I agree , travelling communities and Asian communities all tend to work together and look after each other , whereas British culture now seems to be ‘every man for himself’ a shift in culture towards good community spirit would help the situation greatly over time in my opinion , having said that all cases are different so it wouldn’t work for everyone ! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There are many homeless in depressing Morecambe. How many do you go to the pub with or pop round and see, to give them a hand to get back on their feet?" I housed someone who became homeless for 18 months until he got back on his feet , and you will find several of the homeless that walk down the prom in depressing Morecambe drive home in BMW’s once they have a full pocket , don’t make assumptions about me , you know nothing about me ! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Thanks for confirming what I said much earlier on here. Most are fake homeless, doing it to con people out of money to buy BMW's as you just said." But not all ! There are genuine people who have fallen on hard times | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well Morecambe itself has fallen on hard times!" Like a lot of places , sadly | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"An epidemic of modern times, government cut backs, charities being unable to cope, shortage of housing. But a serious question about a serious subject. Why is it there seems to be ten times the amount of men than women? Whatever the reason I think it's absolutely disgusting that one of the world's richest countries can't sort this out." Worked in homeless shelters, was involved in soup runs, a lot of the homeless are homeless by chioce, its an easy way of life for them, they dont work, collect benefits, have no overheads and then theres the free benefits of the soup runs, nite shelters and so forth, add to a lot of them begging , some make a small fortune out of it... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"An epidemic of modern times, government cut backs, charities being unable to cope, shortage of housing. But a serious question about a serious subject. Why is it there seems to be ten times the amount of men than women? Whatever the reason I think it's absolutely disgusting that one of the world's richest countries can't sort this out. Worked in homeless shelters, was involved in soup runs, a lot of the homeless are homeless by chioce, its an easy way of life for them, they dont work, collect benefits, have no overheads and then theres the free benefits of the soup runs, nite shelters and so forth, add to a lot of them begging , some make a small fortune out of it... " Thanks for enlightening us on that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"An epidemic of modern times, government cut backs, charities being unable to cope, shortage of housing. But a serious question about a serious subject. Why is it there seems to be ten times the amount of men than women? Whatever the reason I think it's absolutely disgusting that one of the world's richest countries can't sort this out. Worked in homeless shelters, was involved in soup runs, a lot of the homeless are homeless by chioce, its an easy way of life for them, they dont work, collect benefits, have no overheads and then theres the free benefits of the soup runs, nite shelters and so forth, add to a lot of them begging , some make a small fortune out of it... " Amazing how the people who have "worked at the coalface" know the truth about fake homelessness. Thanks for telling the truth. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"An epidemic of modern times, government cut backs, charities being unable to cope, shortage of housing. But a serious question about a serious subject. Why is it there seems to be ten times the amount of men than women? Whatever the reason I think it's absolutely disgusting that one of the world's richest countries can't sort this out." . Theres not really much difference between the sexes however at the extremes of the sexes you say extreme differences so for instance in the "crazy don't fit into society very well" range you tend to find men outnumber women considerably, this works well if you wish to say climb Everest or walk to the south pole, discover country's, sail around the world, alas without that challenge they just turn to drink and act like knob ends which means they also make up the vast amount of the homeless  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Having spent the day working in the homelessness sector I’m not surprised at all to see the same few opinionated posters making their assumptive, baseless opinions known and flouting their superiority at supposedly “holding their lives together” all day on a swingers website while simply demonstrating a failure to understand complex trauma, policy shortfalls, and the root causes of homelessness and moreover an absolute lack of empathy. Yay, you guys! "Here's one from around the time of the Crash: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2009/mar/22/homeless-middle-class-recession I remembered reading a four page spread in the Sunday Times with the stories of the previously sanctimonious who had found themselves homeless. I can't find that spread... it may have been in the magazine. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Lots of interesting thoughts and many misconceptions. I deal with homeless as part of my job, and can confirm that government legislation has definitely contributed to the increasing levels of homelessness. The vast majority of homeless are not visible, most rough sleepers don't want to be seen, and the rest are living in unstable temporary conditions. A lot of beggars are not homeless, but find it a lucrative way to top up their benefits. I can also categorically say that very few people are homeless due to choice or simply not bothering to pay their rent. All it takes in many cases is a change in family circumstances; relationship breakdown, illness or loss of their job. Even something as simple as kids moving out. There are fewer women on the streets as friends and family are more likely to take them in. Single healthy adults of either sex will not be a priority for housing. If you really want to help.. Don't believe the media hype, donate to a reputable homeless charity, volunteer or lobby for better support from government. " Sanity! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Lots of interesting thoughts and many misconceptions. I deal with homeless as part of my job, and can confirm that government legislation has definitely contributed to the increasing levels of homelessness. The vast majority of homeless are not visible, most rough sleepers don't want to be seen, and the rest are living in unstable temporary conditions. A lot of beggars are not homeless, but find it a lucrative way to top up their benefits. I can also categorically say that very few people are homeless due to choice or simply not bothering to pay their rent. All it takes in many cases is a change in family circumstances; relationship breakdown, illness or loss of their job. Even something as simple as kids moving out. There are fewer women on the streets as friends and family are more likely to take them in. Single healthy adults of either sex will not be a priority for housing. If you really want to help.. Don't believe the media hype, donate to a reputable homeless charity, volunteer or lobby for better support from government. Sanity! "Thank you I don't envy you working in homelessness in London. It's bad enough up here. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Lots of interesting thoughts and many misconceptions. I deal with homeless as part of my job, and can confirm that government legislation has definitely contributed to the increasing levels of homelessness. The vast majority of homeless are not visible, most rough sleepers don't want to be seen, and the rest are living in unstable temporary conditions. A lot of beggars are not homeless, but find it a lucrative way to top up their benefits. I can also categorically say that very few people are homeless due to choice or simply not bothering to pay their rent. All it takes in many cases is a change in family circumstances; relationship breakdown, illness or loss of their job. Even something as simple as kids moving out. There are fewer women on the streets as friends and family are more likely to take them in. Single healthy adults of either sex will not be a priority for housing. If you really want to help.. Don't believe the media hype, donate to a reputable homeless charity, volunteer or lobby for better support from government. Sanity!
Thank you
I don't envy you working in homelessness in London. It's bad enough up here."It is beyond anything. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Lots of interesting thoughts and many misconceptions. I deal with homeless as part of my job, and can confirm that government legislation has definitely contributed to the increasing levels of homelessness. The vast majority of homeless are not visible, most rough sleepers don't want to be seen, and the rest are living in unstable temporary conditions. A lot of beggars are not homeless, but find it a lucrative way to top up their benefits. I can also categorically say that very few people are homeless due to choice or simply not bothering to pay their rent. All it takes in many cases is a change in family circumstances; relationship breakdown, illness or loss of their job. Even something as simple as kids moving out. There are fewer women on the streets as friends and family are more likely to take them in. Single healthy adults of either sex will not be a priority for housing. If you really want to help.. Don't believe the media hype, donate to a reputable homeless charity, volunteer or lobby for better support from government. Sanity!
Thank you
I don't envy you working in homelessness in London. It's bad enough up here.
It is beyond anything. "... Keep at it though, it's worth it for the positives and helping those we can.
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Lots of interesting thoughts and many misconceptions. I deal with homeless as part of my job, and can confirm that government legislation has definitely contributed to the increasing levels of homelessness. The vast majority of homeless are not visible, most rough sleepers don't want to be seen, and the rest are living in unstable temporary conditions. A lot of beggars are not homeless, but find it a lucrative way to top up their benefits. I can also categorically say that very few people are homeless due to choice or simply not bothering to pay their rent. All it takes in many cases is a change in family circumstances; relationship breakdown, illness or loss of their job. Even something as simple as kids moving out. There are fewer women on the streets as friends and family are more likely to take them in. Single healthy adults of either sex will not be a priority for housing. If you really want to help.. Don't believe the media hype, donate to a reputable homeless charity, volunteer or lobby for better support from government. "
Also in response to the addicts on the streets comment ... Unfortunately addiction is a very real issue and maybe a contributory factor in some people's living situation, but also may be a reaction to their living situation.
As someone who has close relationships with addicts in recovery, none of them want to be an addict... It really isn't a choice and with the cutbacks in government and NHS funding,there are far too few rehab places and services to help are having their funding cut.
Homeless or addicts or both, these people are just that people, and maybe if we see the people first and not the problems we can genuinely help and start to create a better more inclusive society | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Amazing how the farming industry is now complaining to the Government that because of Brexit, there are not enough foreign labourers to work on farms. Why can't these so called homeless people go to work on farms? Probably because they are not genuinely homeless as others have said - and you only have to look at their trainers and phones, all of which are better than mine to realise that they are fake homeless people. Or they are drug/alcohol addicts, and are homeless because even the Salvation Army have thrown them out of their hostels, and they are unfit for work. And if you give them money, you might as well just give them heroin directly, and cut out their drug dealer from the equation." And this way of thinking makes the situation worse. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Amazing how the farming industry is now complaining to the Government that because of Brexit, there are not enough foreign labourers to work on farms. Why can't these so called homeless people go to work on farms? Probably because they are not genuinely homeless as others have said - and you only have to look at their trainers and phones, all of which are better than mine to realise that they are fake homeless people. Or they are drug/alcohol addicts, and are homeless because even the Salvation Army have thrown them out of their hostels, and they are unfit for work. And if you give them money, you might as well just give them heroin directly, and cut out their drug dealer from the equation. And this way of thinking makes the situation worse. " Don't you realise that all so called homeless people actually live in huge fuck off mansions and drive BMWs because they get so much money begging on the streets and conning mugs like me and you | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Amazing how the farming industry is now complaining to the Government that because of Brexit, there are not enough foreign labourers to work on farms. Why can't these so called homeless people go to work on farms? Probably because they are not genuinely homeless as others have said - and you only have to look at their trainers and phones, all of which are better than mine to realise that they are fake homeless people. Or they are drug/alcohol addicts, and are homeless because even the Salvation Army have thrown them out of their hostels, and they are unfit for work. And if you give them money, you might as well just give them heroin directly, and cut out their drug dealer from the equation. And this way of thinking makes the situation worse. Don't you realise that all so called homeless people actually live in huge fuck off mansions and drive BMWs because they get so much money begging on the streets and conning mugs like me and you "They are laughing at us LAUGHING. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
""While one who sings in the rat race choir, Bent out of shape from societies pliers, Cares not to come up any higher, But rather get you down in the hole that he's in"" Bob | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"MT here as someone that works with substance misuse services helping people in long term addiction. And also someone that lived on the streets and was an addict for 16 years this is not a simple question or situation to fix . I would suggest that any of you on here would end up taking drigs if whilst living on the streets you are woke up at 3 o clock in the morning getting pissed on and then getting the shot kicked out of you by 3 lads would take something to escape from reality. Addiction is not about a substance its when individuals arw so diconnected with life and the society around them they need to escape reality. Its very rare that an addict ends up in that condition for the fun of taking drugs. These people have gone through situations that alot of us could only have nightmares about. No one wants to wake up in hell every day but we get dragged there. Then we are faced with blame and a large portion of society seeing it as a moral issue and expect someone to just stop. For me I see these guys change their life around day by day given the right support and self respect. While society sees them as villian, a waste to society, and demonise them all you are doing is pushing them further into a desperate life where they lose all hope for anything better " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
""While one who sings in the rat race choir, Bent out of shape from societies pliers, Cares not to come up any higher, But rather get you down in the hole that he's in" Bob "Seems apt for this thread. I can almost taste some of the bitterness in some posts. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
""While one who sings in the rat race choir, Bent out of shape from societies pliers, Cares not to come up any higher, But rather get you down in the hole that he's in" Bob
Seems apt for this thread. I can almost taste some of the bitterness in some posts. "Nods. It must be awful to experience life with such rage and contempt for others. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
""While one who sings in the rat race choir, Bent out of shape from societies pliers, Cares not to come up any higher, But rather get you down in the hole that he's in" Bob
Seems apt for this thread. I can almost taste some of the bitterness in some posts. "I can smell it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Nods. It must be awful to experience life with such rage and contempt for others. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
""While one who sings in the rat race choir, Bent out of shape from societies pliers, Cares not to come up any higher, But rather get you down in the hole that he's in" Bob
Seems apt for this thread. I can almost taste some of the bitterness in some posts.
Nods. It must be awful to experience life with such rage and contempt for others. "I did wonder if some of the posts were ironic. Apparently not. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Lots of interesting thoughts and many misconceptions. I deal with homeless as part of my job, and can confirm that government legislation has definitely contributed to the increasing levels of homelessness. The vast majority of homeless are not visible, most rough sleepers don't want to be seen, and the rest are living in unstable temporary conditions. A lot of beggars are not homeless, but find it a lucrative way to top up their benefits. I can also categorically say that very few people are homeless due to choice or simply not bothering to pay their rent. All it takes in many cases is a change in family circumstances; relationship breakdown, illness or loss of their job. Even something as simple as kids moving out. There are fewer women on the streets as friends and family are more likely to take them in. Single healthy adults of either sex will not be a priority for housing. If you really want to help.. Don't believe the media hype, donate to a reputable homeless charity, volunteer or lobby for better support from government. Sanity!
Thank you
I don't envy you working in homelessness in London. It's bad enough up here.
It is beyond anything. ". This actually concludes my belief that at the extremes women are more likely to be empathetic to the extremes of maleness, whereas most males will just think fuck it your a loser | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I read this through today and all I can say after being homeless for 6 weeks..and then staying in a residence for people abstaining from alcohol in my case...some others residents were abstaining from drugs...I had never been into contact to any extent in my life with drug users. But we all had the same goal to get out of the position we were in. I was harder for some to do but on the whole 80% got away from the habit. I never thought I would have meet these people in my life...but you know what? They were bloody good people who just needed a break. Some of the cynical posters on here need to try walking in Thier shoes for a week or two....then see if you still spout the same bile is you have on this thread. It really made me to feel ashamed to read the judgemental I have read today "Well its obvious from your comment, you have never walked the walk, the only genuine druggies that seek to beat the habit is those that go Cold Turkey, its the only way... Most others are simply NHS Junkies... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I read this through today and all I can say after being homeless for 6 weeks..and then staying in a residence for people abstaining from alcohol in my case...some others residents were abstaining from drugs...I had never been into contact to any extent in my life with drug users. But we all had the same goal to get out of the position we were in. I was harder for some to do but on the whole 80% got away from the habit. I never thought I would have meet these people in my life...but you know what? They were bloody good people who just needed a break. Some of the cynical posters on here need to try walking in Thier shoes for a week or two....then see if you still spout the same bile is you have on this thread. It really made me to feel ashamed to read the judgemental I have read today
Well its obvious from your comment, you have never walked the walk, the only genuine druggies that seek to beat the habit is those that go Cold Turkey, its the only way...
Most others are simply NHS Junkies..."Now that last part of the quoted text ladies and gentlemen is how not to do empathy. Ms Dominatrix shares a personal experience relevant to a thread. Mara responds with her classic "walk the walk line" . Generally used with the sole intention of diminishing the previous posters personal experiences. How the hell do you know what walk she's walked lol . There are plenty of addicts (drink/drugs) that could only get of the gear by being in a controlled environment with a focus on abstinence, rehabilitation and focusing on changing lifestyles. Not doing their "rattle " on the couch and continuing in the same slowly tightening circle . Not sure if I've walked the walk but I did live in Runcorn during the 90's which had a massive heroin problem , watched the dealers van turn up at each car park on a huge estate of flats and see the bag heads crawling out of every nook n cranny to get served . Kids I grew up with died and kids younger than me were helping dad out on his round by delivering for him ? Hey he was 12 so he had to pull his Weight . | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"as usual the long winded rants of the Anti Mara brigade" To be fair, I thought your aggressive retort was rude and uncalled for. You can make a post that’s informative without having to pull someone else down. When I say you, I mean *one* can. You apparently couldn’t. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"An epidemic of modern times, government cut backs, charities being unable to cope, shortage of housing. But a serious question about a serious subject. Why is it there seems to be ten times the amount of men than women? Whatever the reason I think it's absolutely disgusting that one of the world's richest countries can't sort this out." Agreed but helping homeless is an arduous and long term task I think  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm sorry for ranting you're right . Though please believe I'm in no brigade . I'm also sorry if my post made you think there's people conspiring against you and banding together . I just thought it was a horrible response to a brave post and ranted . #itwasfuckinvile "Cold turkeys the only way... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm sorry for ranting you're right . Though please believe I'm in no brigade . I'm also sorry if my post made you think there's people conspiring against you and banding together . I just thought it was a horrible response to a brave post and ranted . #itwasfuckinvile
Cold turkeys the only way..."And what knowledge or study are you basing the cold turkey is he only option | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I read this through today and all I can say after being homeless for 6 weeks..and then staying in a residence for people abstaining from alcohol in my case...some others residents were abstaining from drugs...I had never been into contact to any extent in my life with drug users. But we all had the same goal to get out of the position we were in. I was harder for some to do but on the whole 80% got away from the habit. I never thought I would have meet these people in my life...but you know what? They were bloody good people who just needed a break. Some of the cynical posters on here need to try walking in Thier shoes for a week or two....then see if you still spout the same bile is you have on this thread. It really made me to feel ashamed to read the judgemental I have read today
Well its obvious from your comment, you have never walked the walk, the only genuine druggies that seek to beat the habit is those that go Cold Turkey, its the only way...
Most others are simply NHS Junkies...
What a load of crap. Cold turkey is not the only way and depending on the addiction extremely dangerous
"Yet to see a nhs junkie beat the dragon, yet with their free hits of methadone etc... have seen many junkies go Cold Turkey with the help of Christians whom were former Junkies themselves and go on to live good Christian lives and help others to free themselves | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There's a guy that sits outside of Edinburgh Haymarket station. Every pay day I buy him 2 pouches of tobacco and pop him a tenner. It's up to him what he buys with it. If he doesn't, I'd spend it on booze, so who am I to judge. See you in march, Graham. " Thats good, but the best way is to offer him food, not cash or tobacco... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I read this through today and all I can say after being homeless for 6 weeks..and then staying in a residence for people abstaining from alcohol in my case...some others residents were abstaining from drugs...I had never been into contact to any extent in my life with drug users. But we all had the same goal to get out of the position we were in. I was harder for some to do but on the whole 80% got away from the habit. I never thought I would have meet these people in my life...but you know what? They were bloody good people who just needed a break. Some of the cynical posters on here need to try walking in Thier shoes for a week or two....then see if you still spout the same bile is you have on this thread. It really made me to feel ashamed to read the judgemental I have read today
Well its obvious from your comment, you have never walked the walk, the only genuine druggies that seek to beat the habit is those that go Cold Turkey, its the only way...
Most others are simply NHS Junkies...
What a load of crap. Cold turkey is not the only way and depending on the addiction extremely dangerous
Yet to see a nhs junkie beat the dragon, yet with their free hits of methadone etc... have seen many junkies go Cold Turkey with the help of Christians whom were former Junkies themselves and go on to live good Christian lives and help others to free themselves"Ok lets put a couple of things forward 16 years an addict. 17 years in recovery 7 years working within drug and alcohol service helping those in addiction get clean and sober First stop refering to those in need of help as junkies. This os a negative term that demonises those in need. Secondly methadone as treatment works to stabalise those on heroin so they can start to make the changes needed in life. Thirdly if you encourage those woth alcohol delendancy to go cold turkey chances are their body will shut down and kill them | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm sorry for ranting you're right . Though please believe I'm in no brigade . I'm also sorry if my post made you think there's people conspiring against you and banding together . I just thought it was a horrible response to a brave post and ranted . #itwasfuckinvile
Cold turkeys the only way..."I watched a good film the other night called "The Journey" strangely you remind me of one of the characters in that film... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
