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Bulger documentary

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I so wish I hadn't watched it, and to know the details were actually far worse than was broadcast has left me cold and sick to my stomach.

I'm now going to go hug my two year old daughter, and hope that the evil bastards one day get what's due to them. There's no justice until they've suffered for what they did to that poor child.

Anyone else left feeling like they want to unsee and unhear what they heard during this.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I so wish I hadn't watched it, and to know the details were actually far worse than was broadcast has left me cold and sick to my stomach.

I'm now going to go hug my two year old daughter, and hope that the evil bastards one day get what's due to them. There's no justice until they've suffered for what they did to that poor child.

Anyone else left feeling like they want to unsee and unhear what they heard during this. "

I remember reading about it all at the one and although I was obviously just a teenager it really hit a nerve. I’m contemplating watching it...but I know it will play on my mind for a very long time if I do

MrsK x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I haven’t seen it but I remember watching something about it years ago and it being horrific. X

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I can't read, listen or watch anything to do with this case, it haunts me for days after

There are just no words.

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By *eliz NelsonMan over a year ago

The Tantric Tea Shop

I remember when it happened, that same week I was out with my then 2yr old son, we were in the Early Learning Centre when he vanished, it was probably for about 20 seconds but felt like longer, when I heard 'Hi Dad!'...he had climbed inside a playtent.....mixed emotions? with predominant relief!....I'd say so....bloody scary, I will never forget it

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By *s_macWoman over a year ago

Traffic land

I took the decision not to watch it, there was an article in the paper last week about 2 little girls who were alone with their Dad for over 24 hours when he died and their mum returned home found them cuddling him in bed (she’d been away). I couldn’t get that out of my mind, so knew that something as wicked as what they did to that baby was going to be far too much.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I read a bit in the papers when it happened and I couldn't read any more. Ever since then, I've always avoided reading or watching anything about similar cases.

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By *esus H ChristMan over a year ago

birmingham

Heartbreaking then and even more so after you become a parent....just makes you hug them that little bit tighter....Denise Bulger aswell as those two must live haunted lives...just desperately sad

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have a morbid fascination for things like this from my "previous" life / career...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Turned it off half way thru due to the excuse makers

Saying they didnt know any better than torturing a toddler then killing him i get the trial was floored as were how some of the statements were gathered but they were still guilty.

Sick little cunts

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm not sure how old I was at the time, but I was going up to Manchester when I heard a report on the radio and it haunted me for a long time after, so I won't be watching the documentary. Just too heartbeaking for words.

Ginger

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Turned it off half way thru due to the excuse makers

Saying they didnt know any better than torturing a toddler then killing him i get the trial was floored as were how some of the statements were gathered but they were still guilty.

Sick little cunts "

For me it was there was no remorse from either of the twisted little bastards. None. And the calm cold way he described what they did to him, I had to leave the room, I was crying my eyes out.

They deserve to never be allowed the luxury of not having to look over their shoulders. They got off far too easy.

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By *tonMessCouple over a year ago

Slough Windsor ish

It was certainly tough veiwing. Such an emotive case.

Much as they deserved to be punished and definitely got off way too lightly, the mother in me also looks at the pictures of those two incredibly young lads and wonders what awful influences drove them to behave so abhorrently?

And Venables continues to offend... is he evil by birth or nurture? Why have their parents never really been brought to task for their behaviour too?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I so wish I hadn't watched it, and to know the details were actually far worse than was broadcast has left me cold and sick to my stomach.

I'm now going to go hug my two year old daughter, and hope that the evil bastards one day get what's due to them. There's no justice until they've suffered for what they did to that poor child.

Anyone else left feeling like they want to unsee and unhear what they heard during this. "
I don't watch TV and don't have a TV so I can't be subjected to that extreme behaviour which can only be attributed to mental problems

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By *ELLONS AND CREAMWoman over a year ago

stourbridge area

I remember it happening... I cannot imagine what denise has been through.

She has just bought a book out ... id love to read it , but I can't .... it would haunt me knowing details

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't want to watch the new documentary about it.

I remember when it happened.

The fact that these two children took a toddler and killed him is enough without the gory details.

Justice has never been done and never will be done in this case.

I feel for Jamie's family.

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By *heIcebreakersCouple over a year ago

Cramlington

"I so wish I hadn't watched it, and to know the details were actually far worse than was broadcast has left me cold and sick to my stomach.

I'm now going to go hug my two year old daughter, and hope that the evil bastards one day get what's due to them. There's no justice until they've suffered for what they did to that poor child.

Anyone else left feeling like they want to unsee and unhear what they heard during this. "
I'm really not sure what purpose the documentary served, or the endless articles rehashing the details.

What was done to the child was unbearably wicked, but the way in which two boys must have been treated to make them behave that way is also a crime. That's not making excuses for them, it's just an observation.

We know that kids who have done evil and wicked things can be rehabilitated, and one of the ways that happens is by coming to terms with what was done to them to make them that way - the Mary Bell case is a shining example of this. Yet still, in the Bulger case, we have this persistent belief that somehow the boy's behaviour was some aberration that sprang out of nowhere, or form innate wickedness and for which only punishment matters - that's gone well hasn't it?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It was certainly tough veiwing. Such an emotive case.

And Venables continues to offend... is he evil by birth or nurture? Why have their parents

never really been brought to task for their behaviour too?"

I have always thought this they were very young children who my opinion should still be in prision they didn’t just murder him they tortured him. I do remember Venables had no childhood and was as good as feral. Was his mother ever asked about her non parenting

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

i watched it, and found it distressing.

Whatever heinous act they committed, there must be better ways.

I was surprised to learn the criminal justice system in England treats 10 year old children as adults.

If a 10 year old is considered an adult who is mature enough to know the difference between right and wrong, why is the present Government so resistant to the idea of lowering the voting age from 18 to 16?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I so wish I hadn't watched it, and to know the details were actually far worse than was broadcast has left me cold and sick to my stomach.

I'm now going to go hug my two year old daughter, and hope that the evil bastards one day get what's due to them. There's no justice until they've suffered for what they did to that poor child.

Anyone else left feeling like they want to unsee and unhear what they heard during this. I'm really not sure what purpose the documentary served, or the endless articles rehashing the details.

The documentary stated one of the lads (Thompson I believe) came from a very loving and stable family background, and had never been in trouble before, aside from skipping school. Venables came from a one parent family where the mother clearly had issues, and had been in trouble for violence previously. But it was said that Thompson was the instigator, and the whole thing was premeditated. They set out to snatch and kill a child. This wasn't heresy, this came from the investigators of the case.

10 year olds know right from wrong. 10 year olds know snatching and murdering a baby is beyond wrong. The interview recordings were horrifying. They had zero remorse. None.

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

The term "evil" came up over and over again.

I really dislike the term - it is a biblical term that defies rational explanation.

Speak to experts in child behaviour and they will show you the evidence. In a word - empathy - or the lack of.

Have you heard the expression "show me the boy and I'll show you the man"?

When I work for the NHS, I discovered a lot of the truth in that expression.

When a baby is born, the brain is 1/4 formed. By the age of 4 or so, it is 3/4 formed.

By the age of 7, a child is set for life.

What happens to the child in those first 7 years, and the preceding 9 months, shapes the type of adult they become and the belief system that will drive their behaviour.

If a child grows up in an environment where there is an absence of love, or even cruelty, the effect on their ability to empathise is staggering. The greater the lack of empathy, the more likely an individual is to harm others.

There is an explanation for everything in this world. A judge resorting to the bible to find a framework for criminal behaviour is simply wrong.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't watch programs like that. At my age I am aware of the evil that exists and is committed by some people. The details just disturb me too much.

I did hear Denise talking on the radio the other day. What an incredibly sad and difficult life she has had and, how very unfair. We only get one and to have to spend it suffering like that. She came across as an amazingly strong person and my heart and respect goes out to her!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I used to be shocked about the level of suffering that humans of any age will willingly inflict on others for no good reason. More than 30 years on, very little surprises me anymore..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I live 100 yards away from where he went missing. Police knocked on door and me and my dad went out driving looking for him. Ilk never forget that day as long as I live.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I live 100 yards away from where he went missing. Police knocked on door and me and my dad went out driving looking for him. Ilk never forget that day as long as I live."

It really was difficult to watch. The fact one of them went back to where people had laid flowers for him, knowing full well what he'd done, it made my skin crawl.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I live 100 yards away from where he went missing. Police knocked on door and me and my dad went out driving looking for him. Ilk never forget that day as long as I live.

It really was difficult to watch. The fact one of them went back to where people had laid flowers for him, knowing full well what he'd done, it made my skin crawl. "

If we were 10 minutes earlier we would have found him. They walked the same route I used to take to school.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"I remember it happening... I cannot imagine what denise has been through.

She has just bought a book out ... id love to read it , but I can't .... it would haunt me knowing details

I did and it was heartbreaking, her husband had one out too which was equally heartbreaking so I am not sure why I read the second one.

I , like the OP had to fast forward the people making excuses on the programme as it is hard to hear especially knowing what they did to the poor little boy ( the programme didn't mention all of it, it is horrific what they did )

I couldn't listen to them on the police tapes saying what they did though but I did cuddle my little grandson who is around the same age a lot harder today

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By *sGivesWoodWoman over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

I've just seen another documentary advertised with his mum Denise. As a mum I don't think I'll be watching it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've just seen another documentary advertised with his mum Denise. As a mum I don't think I'll be watching it. "

Same. It's been playing on my mind all day. Specifically that police interview, and now getting extremely unwanted mental images.

I think having a daughter the same age it's hit a nerve, I just wish I could get it out my head now.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It was certainly tough veiwing. Such an emotive case.

And Venables continues to offend... is he evil by birth or nurture? Why have their parents never really been brought to task for their behaviour too?"
.

Some people are just wired up wrong from birth like Thompson some are wired up right like Venables, IMO its why Thompson can forget about it and lead a normal life where as Venables seems to be mentally tortured

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By *heIcebreakersCouple over a year ago

Cramlington

"I so wish I hadn't watched it, and to know the details were actually far worse than was broadcast has left me cold and sick to my stomach.

I'm now going to go hug my two year old daughter, and hope that the evil bastards one day get what's due to them. There's no justice until they've suffered for what they did to that poor child.

Anyone else left feeling like they want to unsee and unhear what they heard during this. I'm really not sure what purpose the documentary served, or the endless articles rehashing the details.

10 year olds know right from wrong. 10 year olds know snatching and murdering a baby is beyond wrong. The interview recordings were horrifying. They had zero remorse. None.

There are children from far, far worse home lives that would never contemplate what those evil little bastards did. And to serve only 8 years and be granted lifetime protection orders, is an insult to Jamie's family. Justice was far from served in this case. They haven't been punished, they would have been, and still are, wrapped in cotton wool and have been treated far better than Jamie's family have. "
You believe in punishment. I have seen no evidence it works. You appear to believe that if punishment doesn't work (and imprisonment is punishment) then the answer is more punishment. Governments have taken that line since about 1979, and our recidivism rate proves them conclusively wrong.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I probably 18 Years ago went to buy a blue transit from a north Wales scrap yard that also dealed in vans.

This two to n e blue van had plastic side Windows and a emergency escape from the front to back plus highly polished wooden bench seats.. it had a very bad feeling about it on a test drive so I took it back and left...horrible thing

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42972085

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42972085"

They need to lock the cell and leave the piece of shit to rot.

He clearly has no intention of rehabilitating and is clearly always going to be dangerous to children.

Scum like that nonce cunt don't deserve help, they deserve a bullet between the eyes and an unmarked grave.

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By *ain n MableWoman over a year ago

Milton Keynes

I can't believe they have only given him 3+ years, it's absolutely sickening.

When he goes on to kill/harm another child they will all point the finger at each other and say "why didn't you do more" then there will be a Government review of every department and come up with the same answer as previous cases "we should of done more"

We as a Nation can see this man is never going to be rehabilitated so why are they taking a risk on every child in this country every time they open the prison gates after his sentence.

There will be blood on the hands of so many

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I so wish I hadn't watched it, and to know the details were actually far worse than was broadcast has left me cold and sick to my stomach.

I'm now going to go hug my two year old daughter, and hope that the evil bastards one day get what's due to them. There's no justice until they've suffered for what they did to that poor child.

Anyone else left feeling like they want to unsee and unhear what they heard during this. I'm really not sure what purpose the documentary served, or the endless articles rehashing the details.

10 year olds know right from wrong. 10 year olds know snatching and murdering a baby is beyond wrong. The interview recordings were horrifying. They had zero remorse. None.

There are children from far, far worse home lives that would never contemplate what those evil little bastards did. And to serve only 8 years and be granted lifetime protection orders, is an insult to Jamie's family. Justice was far from served in this case. They haven't been punished, they would have been, and still are, wrapped in cotton wool and have been treated far better than Jamie's family have. You believe in punishment. I have seen no evidence it works. You appear to believe that if punishment doesn't work (and imprisonment is punishment) then the answer is more punishment. Governments have taken that line since about 1979, and our recidivism rate proves them conclusively wrong."

You're right but then he wouldn't be able to reoffend if he was put down like the rabid dog he is, would he?

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By *heIcebreakersCouple over a year ago

Cramlington

"I so wish I hadn't watched it, and to know the details were actually far worse than was broadcast has left me cold and sick to my stomach.

I'm now going to go hug my two year old daughter, and hope that the evil bastards one day get what's due to them. There's no justice until they've suffered for what they did to that poor child.

Anyone else left feeling like they want to unsee and unhear what they heard during this. I'm really not sure what purpose the documentary served, or the endless articles rehashing the details.

10 year olds know right from wrong. 10 year olds know snatching and murdering a baby is beyond wrong. The interview recordings were horrifying. They had zero remorse. None.

There are children from far, far worse home lives that would never contemplate what those evil little bastards did. And to serve only 8 years and be granted lifetime protection orders, is an insult to Jamie's family. Justice was far from served in this case. They haven't been punished, they would have been, and still are, wrapped in cotton wool and have been treated far better than Jamie's family have. You believe in punishment. I have seen no evidence it works. You appear to believe that if punishment doesn't work (and imprisonment is punishment) then the answer is more punishment. Governments have taken that line since about 1979, and our recidivism rate proves them conclusively wrong.

You're right but then he wouldn't be able to reoffend if he was put down like the rabid dog he is, would he?"
you want me to dignify that with an answer?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I work in the area where this happened and I know the female office we who it was first reported to, shexwas working the front desk in Marsh Lane police station and it affected her thru her whole career, she recently retired after 30 years service but most of it was spent in office type roles rather than front line. I havnt seen the documentary yet but I doubt the true horror of what they did has been made public. How his poor mother and father carried on after that I’ll never know, they say through the trial and had to hear in gruesome detail what their boy endured before his death. God bless them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Heartbreaking then and even more so after you become a parent....just makes you hug them that little bit tighter....Denise Bulger aswell as those two must live haunted lives...just desperately sad"

Don’t forget his dad, Ralph, he chose to remain out of the public eye but no doubt he’s just as tortured as Denise.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I so wish I hadn't watched it, and to know the details were actually far worse than was broadcast has left me cold and sick to my stomach.

I'm now going to go hug my two year old daughter, and hope that the evil bastards one day get what's due to them. There's no justice until they've suffered for what they did to that poor child.

Anyone else left feeling like they want to unsee and unhear what they heard during this. I'm really not sure what purpose the documentary served, or the endless articles rehashing the details.

10 year olds know right from wrong. 10 year olds know snatching and murdering a baby is beyond wrong. The interview recordings were horrifying. They had zero remorse. None.

There are children from far, far worse home lives that would never contemplate what those evil little bastards did. And to serve only 8 years and be granted lifetime protection orders, is an insult to Jamie's family. Justice was far from served in this case. They haven't been punished, they would have been, and still are, wrapped in cotton wool and have been treated far better than Jamie's family have. You believe in punishment. I have seen no evidence it works. You appear to believe that if punishment doesn't work (and imprisonment is punishment) then the answer is more punishment. Governments have taken that line since about 1979, and our recidivism rate proves them conclusively wrong.

You're right but then he wouldn't be able to reoffend if he was put down like the rabid dog he is, would he?you want me to dignify that with an answer?"

Answer this then: do you think he will ever be rehabilitated?

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

" I can't believe they have only given him 3+ years, it's absolutely sickening.

We as a Nation can see this man is never going to be rehabilitated so why are they taking a risk on every child in this country every time they open the prison gates after his sentence.

There will be blood on the hands of so many

He has a life sentence from the murder so cannot be automatically released when the child porn sentence is served. If he is a danger he will stay in prison indefinitely.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" I can't believe they have only given him 3+ years, it's absolutely sickening.

We as a Nation can see this man is never going to be rehabilitated so why are they taking a risk on every child in this country every time they open the prison gates after his sentence.

There will be blood on the hands of so many

He has a life sentence from the murder so cannot be automatically released when the child porn sentence is served. If he is a danger he will stay in prison indefinitely. "

Hope he does stay in prison then as he has already re offended twice hasnt he ?

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

" I can't believe they have only given him 3+ years, it's absolutely sickening.

We as a Nation can see this man is never going to be rehabilitated so why are they taking a risk on every child in this country every time they open the prison gates after his sentence.

There will be blood on the hands of so many

He has a life sentence from the murder so cannot be automatically released when the child porn sentence is served. If he is a danger he will stay in prison indefinitely.

Hope he does stay in prison then as he has already re offended twice hasnt he ?"

Yep. Child porn on both occasions. He's been out for about seventeen years after the murder conviction, and whilst child porn is bad enough there's never been any suggestion he has directly sought to harm children since his release.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don’t agree with their anonymous new identities. I wonder if there are any safeguards in place to protect any partners they might start relationships with. Imagine meeting this guy when you already have kids and not knowing who he really is.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

" I can't believe they have only given him 3+ years, it's absolutely sickening.

We as a Nation can see this man is never going to be rehabilitated so why are they taking a risk on every child in this country every time they open the prison gates after his sentence.

There will be blood on the hands of so many

He has a life sentence from the murder so cannot be automatically released when the child porn sentence is served. If he is a danger he will stay in prison indefinitely.

Hope he does stay in prison then as he has already re offended twice hasnt he ?

The judge that sentenced him this time round disagrees with you. He says that the ownership of a paedophile manual indicates clear intent to harm children.

He has been in prison once since his release after the murder of the little boy, this is his third custodial sentence. One for Murder and 2 for indecent images of children. 300 of which were category A images I believe,the worst kind of images.

He clearly needs to be supervised more closely. Whether that is indefinitely in prison or in a secure hospital facility I do t know but he has proven time and time again that he does not wish to obey the law.

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By *robertsCouple over a year ago

Leicestershire

Don't you just love good old British justice!!

It's Denise & Ralph Bulger I feel so sorry for, does the justice system get off on twisting the knife into the victims family ? If the correct sentence was delivered in the first place then today wouldn't have happened and the parents wouldn't have to relive the horror again .

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By *robertsCouple over a year ago

Leicestershire

" I can't believe they have only given him 3+ years, it's absolutely sickening.

We as a Nation can see this man is never going to be rehabilitated so why are they taking a risk on every child in this country every time they open the prison gates after his sentence.

There will be blood on the hands of so many

Because it's soft Britain and it's more important to focus on the rehabilitation of the accuser than it is to be concerned about the victim or their families.

Unlike the states it's real justice there !

Capital punishment is a vote winner and if it's not delivered it's a real life tariff instead .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" I can't believe they have only given him 3+ years, it's absolutely sickening.

We as a Nation can see this man is never going to be rehabilitated so why are they taking a risk on every child in this country every time they open the prison gates after his sentence.

There will be blood on the hands of so many

He has a life sentence from the murder so cannot be automatically released when the child porn sentence is served. If he is a danger he will stay in prison indefinitely.

Hope he does stay in prison then as he has already re offended twice hasnt he ?

This last time though there was also a manuel found on his laptop/pc so that surely shows that theres intent to harm in person ... according to the news reports i read/heard.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" I can't believe they have only given him 3+ years, it's absolutely sickening.

We as a Nation can see this man is never going to be rehabilitated so why are they taking a risk on every child in this country every time they open the prison gates after his sentence.

There will be blood on the hands of so many

He has a life sentence from the murder so cannot be automatically released when the child porn sentence is served. If he is a danger he will stay in prison indefinitely.

Hope he does stay in prison then as he has already re offended twice hasnt he ?

The judge that sentenced him this time round disagrees with you. He says that the ownership of a paedophile manual indicates clear intent to harm children.

This is put far better than what i said (i didnt read far enough ahead).

I think he should be locked up one way or another always.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" I can't believe they have only given him 3+ years, it's absolutely sickening.

We as a Nation can see this man is never going to be rehabilitated so why are they taking a risk on every child in this country every time they open the prison gates after his sentence.

There will be blood on the hands of so many

He has a life sentence from the murder so cannot be automatically released when the child porn sentence is served. If he is a danger he will stay in prison indefinitely.

Hope he does stay in prison then as he has already re offended twice hasnt he ?

This last time though there was also a manuel found on his laptop/pc so that surely shows that theres intent to harm in person ... according to the news reports i read/heard. "

Manuel? Does that show his intent to harm Spanish waiters

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

" I can't believe they have only given him 3+ years, it's absolutely sickening.

We as a Nation can see this man is never going to be rehabilitated so why are they taking a risk on every child in this country every time they open the prison gates after his sentence.

There will be blood on the hands of so many

He has a life sentence from the murder so cannot be automatically released when the child porn sentence is served. If he is a danger he will stay in prison indefinitely. "

I doubt the license from his initial offence is still active, otherwise he wouldn't have been released after the first child pornography conviction. I don't know, just guessing.

The tariff for his initial conviction was served and that is why he was released. While that will have some bearing on the sentence given today I don't believe he can be held longer than the sentencing guidelines for the charge he is tried for on each occasion. Judges hands are tied these days.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This might be a controversial stance, but I do wonder what was so wrong in the minds of two kids that they ended up so messed up, there is obviously something seriously wrong to even think of committing such a crime, and I do wonder if there is anything that could have been done to take them off the path they eventually followed, were there any lessons learned from this?

There was a kid who used to play football on the grass outside where I used to live, and he ended up serving a life sentence, he was smaller than the other kids and I know what his childhood was like, and I'm not condoning what he did, but I can see how his history played a massive part in his mindset when he did what he did, he had finally got a life that he loved, and someone threatened to take it all away, it's sad, because two kids lost their chances of a good life that day, 10 seconds of madness and two families broken forever.

I know it's a cliché, but I really do blame his mother

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I remember it vividly as I was around Queens Drive the day it happened. An ex lived near the disused railway line where the poor boy was found and it’s just so fucking wrong that they’re not locked up for life.

Don’t know them personally but remember at the time that one of them was well known around Walton as he was a little cunt and the other was the dickhead mate that went along with him.

We probably all have our own thoughts on what we’d do to them if it was our own child that they murdered but clearly the justice system has failed James’s family, those two should never be released.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

For me, it's cases like this (i.e. the type and nature of offence, modus operandi etc) PLUS the proof beyond any doubt that the perpetrators committed the offence, that would fully justify capital punishment.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"For me, it's cases like this (i.e. the type and nature of offence, modus operandi etc) PLUS the proof beyond any doubt that the perpetrators committed the offence, that would fully justify capital punishment."

Could you pull the handle on a ten year old?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" I can't believe they have only given him 3+ years, it's absolutely sickening.

We as a Nation can see this man is never going to be rehabilitated so why are they taking a risk on every child in this country every time they open the prison gates after his sentence.

There will be blood on the hands of so many

He has a life sentence from the murder so cannot be automatically released when the child porn sentence is served. If he is a danger he will stay in prison indefinitely.

Hope he does stay in prison then as he has already re offended twice hasnt he ?

This last time though there was also a manuel found on his laptop/pc so that surely shows that theres intent to harm in person ... according to the news reports i read/heard.

Manuel? Does that show his intent to harm Spanish waiters

It shows that im dyslexic.

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By *robertsCouple over a year ago

Leicestershire

Unfortunately It was abolished in 1965 as we all know and I believe it's impossible to reinstate as its law binding in the UK.

Surprise suprise you guessed it

ECHR European court of human rights.

Another good reason to leave the EU !!

It's binding as long as we're part of the convention.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Unfortunately It was abolished in 1965 as we all know and I believe it's impossible to reinstate as its law binding in the UK.

Surprise suprise you guessed it

ECHR European court of human rights.

Another good reason to leave the EU !!

It's binding as long as we're part of the convention.

Really? Bringing back the death penalty is a good reason to leave the EU... heard it all now

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Could you pull the handle on a ten year old?"

A definite yes in cases such as this - honestly - no problem

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

Unfortunately It was abolished in 1965 as we all know and I believe it's impossible to reinstate as its law binding in the UK.

Surprise suprise you guessed it

ECHR European court of human rights.

Another good reason to leave the EU !!

It's binding as long as we're part of the convention.

You think we are going to suddenly start beheading people in 2019?!

No politician in their right mind would come out of the ECHR without having their own bill of human rights to replace it, with pretty much the same content.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I've seen it advertised...

I'm intrigued on one part but then the other part of me is saying no , you'll only regret watching this...

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I've seen it advertised...

I'm intrigued on one part but then the other part of me is saying no , you'll only regret watching this...

I honestly wish I hadn't. But I've read Channel 4 have removed it from their catch up service.

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By *robertsCouple over a year ago

Leicestershire

Unfortunately It was abolished in 1965 as we all know and I believe it's impossible to reinstate as its law binding in the UK.

Surprise suprise you guessed it

ECHR European court of human rights.

Another good reason to leave the EU !!

It's binding as long as we're part of the convention.

You think we are going to suddenly start beheading people in 2019?!

No politician in their right mind would come out of the ECHR without having their own bill of human rights to replace it, with pretty much the same content. "

Of course I don't think that !!

We have way to many Do-gooders that unfortunately don't live in the real world who believe that the thought of reinstating capital punishment is completely barbaric to them . Its never their children or their lives that are destroyed though is it ? Maybe if it was they'd think very differently.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've seen it advertised...

I'm intrigued on one part but then the other part of me is saying no , you'll only regret watching this...

I honestly wish I hadn't. But I've read Channel 4 have removed it from their catch up service. "

I'm not surprised, I'm not sure if these types of shows are really good or bad. Having read that some prisoners have had some autobiographies of those that have had torturous or abused childhoods confiscated I'm inclined to go with the latter.

I don't really understand what purpose this documentary serves to be honest.

Ginger

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By *hortieWoman over a year ago

Northampton

The documentary has been pulled today, after a public backlash.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

" I can't believe they have only given him 3+ years, it's absolutely sickening.

We as a Nation can see this man is never going to be rehabilitated so why are they taking a risk on every child in this country every time they open the prison gates after his sentence.

There will be blood on the hands of so many

He has a life sentence from the murder so cannot be automatically released when the child porn sentence is served. If he is a danger he will stay in prison indefinitely.

Hope he does stay in prison then as he has already re offended twice hasnt he ?

This last time though there was also a manuel found on his laptop/pc so that surely shows that theres intent to harm in person ... according to the news reports i read/heard. "

I have read the sentencing remarks. The judge said that the manual was a worrying feature as it suggested he might be thinking about contact offences but there was no evidence he had made any effort to to harm children in person.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

" I can't believe they have only given him 3+ years, it's absolutely sickening.

We as a Nation can see this man is never going to be rehabilitated so why are they taking a risk on every child in this country every time they open the prison gates after his sentence.

There will be blood on the hands of so many

He has a life sentence from the murder so cannot be automatically released when the child porn sentence is served. If he is a danger he will stay in prison indefinitely.

I doubt the license from his initial offence is still active, otherwise he wouldn't have been released after the first child pornography conviction. I don't know, just guessing.

I am afraid you are completely wrong.

If you get a life sentence, you are subject to the sentence for your entire life. . You serve an initial tariff period and can then be released if the parole board judges you no longer a danger.

However, you remain on licence and can be recalled to prison at any time if you are thought to be a danger and if you offend again you will almost always be recalled to prison to continue serving the life.

In Venable s case, he will serve half of his child porn sentence and will then be eligible for release. . However, release is not automatic and only happens when and if he is considered not to be dangerous.

Given this is his second post release child sex offence, I think it highly unlikely he will be released when his current sentence ends.

I am a criminal lawyer by the way. It gets on my tits when people post nonsense about stuff they clearly know nothing about.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

Unfortunately It was abolished in 1965 as we all know and I believe it's impossible to reinstate as its law binding in the UK.

Surprise suprise you guessed it

ECHR European court of human rights.

Another good reason to leave the EU !!

It's binding as long as we're part of the convention.

You do realise the ECHR Has nothing to do with the European and that Britain will remain subject to the former even after it leaves the latter?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

" I can't believe they have only given him 3+ years, it's absolutely sickening.

We as a Nation can see this man is never going to be rehabilitated so why are they taking a risk on every child in this country every time they open the prison gates after his sentence.

There will be blood on the hands of so many

He has a life sentence from the murder so cannot be automatically released when the child porn sentence is served. If he is a danger he will stay in prison indefinitely.

I doubt the license from his initial offence is still active, otherwise he wouldn't have been released after the first child pornography conviction. I don't know, just guessing.

I am afraid you are completely wrong.

If you get a life sentence, you are subject to the sentence for your entire life. . You serve an initial tariff period and can then be released if the parole board judges you no longer a danger.

Given this is his second post release child sex offence, I think it highly unlikely he will be released when his current sentence ends.

I am a criminal lawyer by the way. It gets on my tits when people post nonsense about stuff they clearly know nothing about.

Well thanks for not being condescending at all when trying to educate us lesser mortals

much appreciated

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By *robertsCouple over a year ago

Leicestershire

Unfortunately It was abolished in 1965 as we all know and I believe it's impossible to reinstate as its law binding in the UK.

Surprise suprise you guessed it

ECHR European court of human rights.

Another good reason to leave the EU !!

It's binding as long as we're part of the convention.

You do realise the ECHR Has nothing to do with the European and that Britain will remain subject to the former even after it leaves the latter? "

Not at all !

We'll be part of their laws , rules and regs even during the 2 year transition period. EU law will all be made into Uk law and will be eventually changed over decades as their is so much legislation to trawl through . But subsequently we'lll be free to make our own laws

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

Unfortunately It was abolished in 1965 as we all know and I believe it's impossible to reinstate as its law binding in the UK.

Surprise suprise you guessed it

ECHR European court of human rights.

Another good reason to leave the EU !!

It's binding as long as we're part of the convention.

You do realise the ECHR Has nothing to do with the European and that Britain will remain subject to the former even after it leaves the latter?

Not at all !

No, the European convention on human rights has nothing to do with the EU. It derives from the council of Europe which predates the EU and has a wider membership. . The council of Europe is a completely separate organisation to the EU and there are no plans for Britain to withdraw from it.

Hence withdrawal from the EU will have no effect whatsoever on the application of the ECHR in the UK. .

I think you are probably confusing the European court on human rights, with the European court of Justice. The latter does derive from the European and governs the application of EU law to member states. The EcJ has nothing to do with human rights or capital punishment.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

" I can't believe they have only given him 3+ years, it's absolutely sickening.

We as a Nation can see this man is never going to be rehabilitated so why are they taking a risk on every child in this country every time they open the prison gates after his sentence.

There will be blood on the hands of so many

He has a life sentence from the murder so cannot be automatically released when the child porn sentence is served. If he is a danger he will stay in prison indefinitely.

I doubt the license from his initial offence is still active, otherwise he wouldn't have been released after the first child pornography conviction. I don't know, just guessing.

I am afraid you are completely wrong.

If you get a life sentence, you are subject to the sentence for your entire life. . You serve an initial tariff period and can then be released if the parole board judges you no longer a danger.

Given this is his second post release child sex offence, I think it highly unlikely he will be released when his current sentence ends.

I am a criminal lawyer by the way. It gets on my tits when people post nonsense about stuff they clearly know nothing about.

Well thanks for not being condescending at all when trying to educate us lesser mortals

much appreciated

Yep, be caught put posting crap and have a go at the person who points out its crap. Always a good tactic.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

" I can't believe they have only given him 3+ years, it's absolutely sickening.

We as a Nation can see this man is never going to be rehabilitated so why are they taking a risk on every child in this country every time they open the prison gates after his sentence.

There will be blood on the hands of so many

He has a life sentence from the murder so cannot be automatically released when the child porn sentence is served. If he is a danger he will stay in prison indefinitely.

I doubt the license from his initial offence is still active, otherwise he wouldn't have been released after the first child pornography conviction. I don't know, just guessing.

I am afraid you are completely wrong.

If you get a life sentence, you are subject to the sentence for your entire life. . You serve an initial tariff period and can then be released if the parole board judges you no longer a danger.

Given this is his second post release child sex offence, I think it highly unlikely he will be released when his current sentence ends.

I am a criminal lawyer by the way. It gets on my tits when people post nonsense about stuff they clearly know nothing about.

Well thanks for not being condescending at all when trying to educate us lesser mortals

much appreciated

Yep, be caught put posting crap and have a go at the person who points out its crap. Always a good tactic. "

Got no issue with being told I talk shit, I actually welcome the opportunity to learn just your attitude was shit. It's not about being 'caught'.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple over a year ago

London

" I can't believe they have only given him 3+ years, it's absolutely sickening.

We as a Nation can see this man is never going to be rehabilitated so why are they taking a risk on every child in this country every time they open the prison gates after his sentence.

There will be blood on the hands of so many

He has a life sentence from the murder so cannot be automatically released when the child porn sentence is served. If he is a danger he will stay in prison indefinitely.

I doubt the license from his initial offence is still active, otherwise he wouldn't have been released after the first child pornography conviction. I don't know, just guessing.

I am afraid you are completely wrong.

If you get a life sentence, you are subject to the sentence for your entire life. . You serve an initial tariff period and can then be released if the parole board judges you no longer a danger.

Given this is his second post release child sex offence, I think it highly unlikely he will be released when his current sentence ends.

I am a criminal lawyer by the way. It gets on my tits when people post nonsense about stuff they clearly know nothing about.

Well thanks for not being condescending at all when trying to educate us lesser mortals

much appreciated

Yep, be caught put posting crap and have a go at the person who points out its crap. Always a good tactic.

Got no issue with being told I talk shit, I actually welcome the opportunity to learn just your attitude was shit. It's not about being 'caught'. "

This thread is full of bollocks about soft judges and easy sentences which is simply not true. For years now politicians have competed in an arms race of increasing sentences and new crimes precisely because they think it gains them votes.

The result is we imprison far more people than most other countries in Europe and defendants rights are short curcuited so more people can be convicted whether they are guilty or not (as we see in the recent disclosure scandals in r*pe cases)

So I am sorry if I was tetchy, but it's profoundly annoying when people (not you specifically) sound off in an ignorant way about a subject which is very important and where they can't even be bothered to do a quick Google search before posting.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Makes you wonder what kind of a country we live in when burgerlers do more time than peadiphilles !

An this man has proven time an time again he like to hurt Little kids.

Our prisons are like a one star butlins all inclusive holiday camp, there’s just no pool. There’s entertainment wether you’ll like it or not is another story.

Social services new about venables an what was going on at home nothing done.

He kills a little boy in the most sick horrific way, claims they treated like an adult only gets 8 years.

Now a nonce who loves kiddie porn an is learning how to be a peadifille an not get caught. Aloud to walk the streets.

Welcome to Britain the soft touch.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

Keep it civil when you post please

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/02/18 09:17:11]

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By *ackwheelsMan over a year ago

greenford

Was shocking too hear the boys statements cruel! There's another documentry on tonight on itv! Poor mother who lost her son.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Was shocking too hear the boys statements cruel! There's another documentry on tonight on itv! Poor mother who lost her son. "

Why do people only ever mention the “poor mother”. He had a dad too. Us dad’s feel just as much pain but seldom get a mention. Just an observation.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"Makes you wonder what kind of a country we live in when burgerlers do more time than peadiphilles !

An this man has proven time an time again he like to hurt Little kids.

Our prisons are like a one star butlins all inclusive holiday camp, there’s just no pool. There’s entertainment wether you’ll like it or not is another story.

Social services new about venables an what was going on at home nothing done.

He kills a little boy in the most sick horrific way, claims they treated like an adult only gets 8 years.

Now a nonce who loves kiddie porn an is learning how to be a peadifille an not get caught. Aloud to walk the streets.

Welcome to Britain the soft touch. "

He isn't walking the streets. He is going to prison again.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

He isn't walking the streets. He is going to prison again. "

Not for long by the looks of it

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

He isn't walking the streets. He is going to prison again.

Not for long by the looks of it"

No but then another poster thinks his life time license may mean he stays in longer than the term of this conviction. Fingers crossed.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

He isn't walking the streets. He is going to prison again.

Not for long by the looks of it

No but then another poster thinks his life time license may mean he stays in longer than the term of this conviction. Fingers crossed. "

I hope so, if anything in the past is to go by I wouldn't bet on it

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By *egs11ABCWoman over a year ago

Aberdeen

"I so wish I hadn't watched it, and to know the details were actually far worse than was broadcast has left me cold and sick to my stomach.

I'm now going to go hug my two year old daughter, and hope that the evil bastards one day get what's due to them. There's no justice until they've suffered for what they did to that poor child.

Anyone else left feeling like they want to unsee and unhear what they heard during this. "

Remember it like it was yesterday. My daughter was the same age as James bulgar and it made me sick to my stomach. The media coverage was immense at the time x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I so wish I hadn't watched it, and to know the details were actually far worse than was broadcast has left me cold and sick to my stomach.

I'm now going to go hug my two year old daughter, and hope that the evil bastards one day get what's due to them. There's no justice until they've suffered for what they did to that poor child.

Anyone else left feeling like they want to unsee and unhear what they heard during this. I'm really not sure what purpose the documentary served, or the endless articles rehashing the details.

10 year olds know right from wrong. 10 year olds know snatching and murdering a baby is beyond wrong. The interview recordings were horrifying. They had zero remorse. None.

There are children from far, far worse home lives that would never contemplate what those evil little bastards did. And to serve only 8 years and be granted lifetime protection orders, is an insult to Jamie's family. Justice was far from served in this case. They haven't been punished, they would have been, and still are, wrapped in cotton wool and have been treated far better than Jamie's family have. You believe in punishment. I have seen no evidence it works. You appear to believe that if punishment doesn't work (and imprisonment is punishment) then the answer is more punishment. Governments have taken that line since about 1979, and our recidivism rate proves them conclusively wrong."

Absolutely agree.

It is a highly emotive case. There are all kinds of issues with how it was conducted (being tried as adults, media frenzy/public outcry/political manoeuvring). But I agree wholeheartedly that punishment alone is productive.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I so wish I hadn't watched it, and to know the details were actually far worse than was broadcast has left me cold and sick to my stomach.

I'm now going to go hug my two year old daughter, and hope that the evil bastards one day get what's due to them. There's no justice until they've suffered for what they did to that poor child.

Anyone else left feeling like they want to unsee and unhear what they heard during this. I'm really not sure what purpose the documentary served, or the endless articles rehashing the details.

10 year olds know right from wrong. 10 year olds know snatching and murdering a baby is beyond wrong. The interview recordings were horrifying. They had zero remorse. None.

There are children from far, far worse home lives that would never contemplate what those evil little bastards did. And to serve only 8 years and be granted lifetime protection orders, is an insult to Jamie's family. Justice was far from served in this case. They haven't been punished, they would have been, and still are, wrapped in cotton wool and have been treated far better than Jamie's family have. You believe in punishment. I have seen no evidence it works. You appear to believe that if punishment doesn't work (and imprisonment is punishment) then the answer is more punishment. Governments have taken that line since about 1979, and our recidivism rate proves them conclusively wrong.

You're right but then he wouldn't be able to reoffend if he was put down like the rabid dog he is, would he?you want me to dignify that with an answer?"

Carter & Kaz

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don’t agree with their anonymous new identities. I wonder if there are any safeguards in place to protect any partners they might start relationships with. Imagine meeting this guy when you already have kids and not knowing who he really is."

That would be standard monitoring under Jigsaw/MAPPA to disclose to new partners etc.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This might be a controversial stance, but I do wonder what was so wrong in the minds of two kids that they ended up so messed up, there is obviously something seriously wrong to even think of committing such a crime, and I do wonder if there is anything that could have been done to take them off the path they eventually followed, were there any lessons learned from this?

I know it's a cliché, but I really do blame his mother "

I agree to a certain extent until the final line, what if his mother also suffered trauma as a child etc — traumas can play out over generations. Is she wholly responsible?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I disagree.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've seen it advertised...

I'm intrigued on one part but then the other part of me is saying no , you'll only regret watching this...

I honestly wish I hadn't. But I've read Channel 4 have removed it from their catch up service. "

I’m watching currently on their catch up

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Unfortunately It was abolished in 1965 as we all know and I believe it's impossible to reinstate as its law binding in the UK.

Surprise suprise you guessed it

ECHR European court of human rights.

Another good reason to leave the EU !!

It's binding as long as we're part of the convention.

You think we are going to suddenly start beheading people in 2019?!

No politician in their right mind would come out of the ECHR without having their own bill of human rights to replace it, with pretty much the same content.

Of course I don't think that !!

And what if your child committed such a crime?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Totally harrowing that poor child.what must have gone through his innocent mind.......they should’ve been given tighter longer sentences x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The documentary has been pulled today, after a public backlash."

Odd, I’m watching currently

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" I can't believe they have only given him 3+ years, it's absolutely sickening.

We as a Nation can see this man is never going to be rehabilitated so why are they taking a risk on every child in this country every time they open the prison gates after his sentence.

There will be blood on the hands of so many

He has a life sentence from the murder so cannot be automatically released when the child porn sentence is served. If he is a danger he will stay in prison indefinitely.

I doubt the license from his initial offence is still active, otherwise he wouldn't have been released after the first child pornography conviction. I don't know, just guessing.

I am afraid you are completely wrong.

If you get a life sentence, you are subject to the sentence for your entire life. . You serve an initial tariff period and can then be released if the parole board judges you no longer a danger.

Given this is his second post release child sex offence, I think it highly unlikely he will be released when his current sentence ends.

I am a criminal lawyer by the way. It gets on my tits when people post nonsense about stuff they clearly know nothing about.

Well said and you saved me typing it. Gets on my tits too.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/02/18 22:06:42]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Unfortunately It was abolished in 1965 as we all know and I believe it's impossible to reinstate as its law binding in the UK.

Surprise suprise you guessed it

ECHR European court of human rights.

Another good reason to leave the EU !!

It's binding as long as we're part of the convention.

You do realise the ECHR Has nothing to do with the European and that Britain will remain subject to the former even after it leaves the latter?

Not at all !

Hence withdrawal from the EU will have no effect whatsoever on the application of the ECHR in the UK. .

Hurrah. Sanity speaketh

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By *egs11ABCWoman over a year ago

Aberdeen

Personally for a crime of this calibre life should be life. As with everything else this country is too lenient x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I found the documentary actually presented interesting information challenging that it’s a simple case of evil, capital punishment or imprison for life as a default response simplicity. The lawyers talking about the need to try someone on legal principles not emotion and anger, public outcry/lynchmob mentality and lack of ease with trying young boys as adults, the question about would you be comfortable having a jury of ten year olds try you, the look at the Norwegian tragedy in parallel - how it was handled so differently and the results.

We cry think of the children in these cases, and then we don’t when the perpetrators are children. We stop exploring solutions and future prevention of how to address issues such as these when we just say evil and end the dialogue.

In no way do I condone what they did or not care for the victim or his family.

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By *esus H ChristMan over a year ago

birmingham

"I found the documentary actually presented interesting information challenging that it’s a simple case of evil, capital punishment or imprison for life as a default response simplicity. The lawyers talking about the need to try someone on legal principles not emotion and anger, public outcry/lynchmob mentality and lack of ease with trying young boys as adults, the question about would you be comfortable having a jury of ten year olds try you, the look at the Norwegian tragedy in parallel - how it was handled so differently and the results.

In no way do I condone what they did or not care for the victim or his family. "

couldn't agree more, I thought we had progressed beyond the lynchmob a long time ago...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I’ve got it on record

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By *irtyGirlWoman over a year ago

Edinburgh

In no way do I condone what they did or not care for the victim or his family. "

I’ve not commented because quite frankly I’m not sure how to say how it made me feel but actually you’ve very eloquently expressed how I feel too.

The case in Norway was interesting for me because it’s almost like punishment via the police / courts wasn’t even considered as a solution. I’d be interested to know how those boys turned out.

I feel for Denise Bulger and her family because I don’t have any idea how you live with what happened to James and indeed the lifelong aftermath. I’m glad she has found some happiness in her life.

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By *illyjohnyCouple over a year ago

brighton

By making documentaries about these sort of cases all they are doing are stirring bad memories for the loved ones and giving attention to the depraved sick FUCKS that commit these sort of crimes .

The only attention that they deserve is a slow publicly inflicted death

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By *abs..Woman over a year ago

The original crime may have been committed by 10 year old children but the continuation of criminal acts involving the exploitation of children continues well into adulthood.

At great expense to the tax payer they are protected and given anonymity because they were children and needed protection from others that might harm them, and yet in doing so we expose every child they come into contact with to a greater risk of harm.

It’s obscene that this can be the case.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The original crime may have been committed by 10 year old children but the continuation of criminal acts involving the exploitation of children continues well into adulthood.

It’s obscene that this can be the case. "

Hear, hear. As children I can accept the case for anonymity but not now he is an adult and obviously hasn't reformed in anyway.

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By *illyjohnyCouple over a year ago

brighton

"The original crime may have been committed by 10 year old children but the continuation of criminal acts involving the exploitation of children continues well into adulthood.

It’s obscene that this can be the case.

Hear, hear. As children I can accept the case for anonymity but not now he is an adult and obviously hasn't reformed in anyway."

So fucking string him up. Sometimes we should take a leaf out of other countries books to punish the guilty

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

the look at the Norwegian tragedy in parallel - how it was handled so differently and the results.

The two in this case were handled the same way as each other and yet one keeps re-offending. Some people no matter how it is tried, can't be rehabilitated.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In no way do I condone what they did or not care for the victim or his family.

couldn't agree more, I thought we had progressed beyond the lynchmob a long time ago..."

The mental health help children get in this country is not enough, and if they don't think they have a problem they don't ask for help so don't get it. It can take years, and a lot of offending before they get any kind of help.

I don't know anything about the Bulger case, because I can't read it, so don't know if they needed intervention before they did what they did. If we tackle mental health in children, we might not get so many problem adults.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

the look at the Norwegian tragedy in parallel - how it was handled so differently and the results.

The two in this case were handled the same way as each other and yet one keeps re-offending. Some people no matter how it is tried, can't be rehabilitated.

We don't know what they do to rehabilitate children like them. How do we know what treatment they had, or why it didn't work for them both.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

the look at the Norwegian tragedy in parallel - how it was handled so differently and the results.

The two in this case were handled the same way as each other and yet one keeps re-offending. Some people no matter how it is tried, can't be rehabilitated.

We don't know what they do to rehabilitate children like them. How do we know what treatment they had, or why it didn't work for them both. "

Do you think one would have been rehabilitated a different way then the other?

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

In no way do I condone what they did or not care for the victim or his family.

couldn't agree more, I thought we had progressed beyond the lynchmob a long time ago...

Seriously? Is mental health the new buzz word to blame everything for? I can understand why you wouldn't want to read about what those kids did to another child, but it was horrific.

At the time I remember thinking my god what sort of life the 10 year olds have had to do something like this but then I looked at my then 10 year old and thought, the kids must have known their actions would do some serious damage as my ten year old would know so the focus for me went back to the two year old who had been stoned to death.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In no way do I condone what they did or not care for the victim or his family.

couldn't agree more, I thought we had progressed beyond the lynchmob a long time ago...

Seriously? Is mental health the new buzz word to blame everything for? I can understand why you wouldn't want to read about what those kids did to another child, but it was horrific.

Somebody who does things like that to another child will not be in a normal mental state. There's something wrong. Mental health covers all kinds of areas, including psychosis, narcissism, bi polar and many more. It all comes under mental health because it's the brain not working how it should. Ignoring that means other children might not be getting the help they need, so they don't commit a heinous act as in the Bulger murder. If people can be stopped doing things before they do them it has to be better than waiting for them to commit a crime, then locking them up. That doesn't help the victims does it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"By making documentaries about these sort of cases all they are doing are stirring bad memories for the loved ones and giving attention to the depraved sick FUCKS that commit these sort of crimes .

The only attention that they deserve is a slow publicly inflicted death "

Or perhaps helping educate people to why (in my opinion) it’s attitudes like this that are also indicative of sick and sad which don’t help. But then again, I respect your opinion and right to having it however vehemently I disagree. I feel the documentary again challenges us as a society to perhaps talk and put difficult subjects up for discussion to try and help find solutions to prevent, early intervene or reform and rehabilitate more effectively than the solutions we have to date. Again, to not discuss and reflect is to not learn and understand and futureproof. I for one am strongly against us trying ten year olds as adults. They are not adults. The system was not fit for purpose. Again, in my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The original crime may have been committed by 10 year old children but the continuation of criminal acts involving the exploitation of children continues well into adulthood.

It’s obscene that this can be the case. "

But that’s not how current systems work Babs.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"By making documentaries about these sort of cases all they are doing are stirring bad memories for the loved ones and giving attention to the depraved sick FUCKS that commit these sort of crimes .

The only attention that they deserve is a slow publicly inflicted death

As I said in my earlier post, children don't get the help, unless it's affecting their education. They don't get the psychiatric help if they dont ask for it. It takes something terrible to happen before they are dealt with.

I'm not saying this may have been the case in this instance, as I haven't read anything or seen the documentary.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

the look at the Norwegian tragedy in parallel - how it was handled so differently and the results.

The two in this case were handled the same way as each other and yet one keeps re-offending. Some people no matter how it is tried, can't be rehabilitated.

I’m not disagreeing with your point here. It’s not actually negating the point I was making though, given neither of the British boys were handled in the way the Norwegian authorities did, so we will never know if it might have made a difference. Perhaps there was hope for rehabilitation.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

the look at the Norwegian tragedy in parallel - how it was handled so differently and the results.

The two in this case were handled the same way as each other and yet one keeps re-offending. Some people no matter how it is tried, can't be rehabilitated.

We don't know what they do to rehabilitate children like them. How do we know what treatment they had, or why it didn't work for them both.

Do you think one would have been rehabilitated a different way then the other?

Are you suggesting all humans are the same and respond similarly?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It’s truly and utterly tragic and horrific. And again, I am not in the slightest trying to detract from that.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

the look at the Norwegian tragedy in parallel - how it was handled so differently and the results.

The two in this case were handled the same way as each other and yet one keeps re-offending. Some people no matter how it is tried, can't be rehabilitated.

We don't know what they do to rehabilitate children like them. How do we know what treatment they had, or why it didn't work for them both.

Do you think one would have been rehabilitated a different way then the other?

Are you suggesting all humans are the same and respond similarly?"

I missed the above question earlier.

How they rehabilitate children, or adults even, I don't know. I do know there are different methods of rehabilitation for people who don't commit murders etc. I'm going to assume they treat each person individually. What works for someone may not work for another. I've worked with teenagers with all kinds of learning disabilities (some are mental health issues, some were struggling to cope with family problems), and know that they respond differently to different interventions and approaches.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It’s truly and utterly tragic and horrific. And again, I am not in the slightest trying to detract from that. "

It is and I would hope that something is learned from it to help stop it happening again.

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By *ain n MableWoman over a year ago

Milton Keynes

Ok, while you all talk about the judicial system and how its right or wrong regarding certain people.

Just remember that there are 6 OAP's (70+) who are serving 8 years for a burglary in Hatton Cross. A BURGLARY... No murders, no offences against juveniles, No sick child pornography.

I don't condone it in the slightest, and they deserve it, but let's put things into perspective.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" Ok, while you all talk about the judicial system and how its right or wrong regarding certain people.

Just remember that there are 6 OAP's (70+) who are serving 8 years for a burglary in Hatton Cross. A BURGLARY... No murders, no offences against juveniles, No sick child pornography.

I don't condone it in the slightest, and they deserve it, but let's put things into perspective. "

What is your point, I’ve clearly missed it...? That the judicial system is wrong regarding certain people, ie. sentencing timeframes for different types of crime? I don’t disagree.

I disagree re trying a child as an adult though. And if a child had been tried as an adult for a burglary and got 8years I’d also be challenging that.

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By *ain n MableWoman over a year ago

Milton Keynes

[Removed by poster at 09/02/18 01:41:12]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" Ok, while you all talk about the judicial system and how its right or wrong regarding certain people.

Just remember that there are 6 OAP's (70+) who are serving 8 years for a burglary in Hatton Cross. A BURGLARY... No murders, no offences against juveniles, No sick child pornography.

I don't condone it in the slightest, and they deserve it, but let's put things into perspective.

What is your point, I’ve clearly missed it...? That the judicial system is wrong regarding certain people, ie. sentencing timeframes for different types of crime? I don’t disagree.

I disagree re trying a child as an adult though. And if a child had been tried as an adult for a burglary and got 8years I’d also be challenging that.

What's your point??"

Trying to understand yours, frankly. Sorry I asked

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By *ain n MableWoman over a year ago

Milton Keynes

The point being that if a judiciary system can send people to prison for 8 yrs for burglary then how can the same Judiciary system send a child killer, and prolific peadophile to prison for 3 years?

You getting my point yet?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The point being that if a judiciary system can send people to prison for 8 yrs for burglary then how can the same Judiciary system send a child killer, and prolific peadophile to prison for 3 years?

You getting my point yet?"

I think you’re failing to grasp mine. But that’s okay.

I agree with you, if we had two adults one commits murder and assault of a child and one a burglary, I agree the latter should not have a longer sentence. I don’t think you’d find anyone that would think that’s justified.

My point is this however, and is different - I don’t think a ten year old should be tried as an adult. So it’s irrelevant (in my point) what the sentence length was as I’m not making that argument.

When discussing the later conviction, I again agree the sentencing is whack in that direct comparison. But I was confused by your semantics of critiquing people making points about the judicial system being wrong or right when you then went on to make a point about the judicial system.

But yes, there are flaws with the system on this we both agree. Your particular keenness on sentencing lengths and mine on the trying of children as adults.

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By *ain n MableWoman over a year ago

Milton Keynes

P.s

He was tried under law as a child for his murder, but he was released as an adult.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The point being that if a judiciary system can send people to prison for 8 yrs for burglary then how can the same Judiciary system send a child killer, and prolific peadophile to prison for 3 years?

You getting my point yet?

I think you’re failing to grasp mine. But that’s okay.

But yes, there are flaws with the system on this we both agree. Your particular keenness on sentencing lengths and mine on the trying of children as adults.

Also he served time for the first offence, when charging with the next you don’t add in the first offence again. So your issue (on reflection) is the child porn sentence (this alone) being less severe than burglary.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" P.s

He was tried under law as a child for his murder, but he was released as an adult.

I’m talking about the age of criminal responsibility

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I decided not to watch it.

As would make me angry as i dont think they should of ever been allowed out

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" P.s

He was tried under law as a child for his murder, but he was released as an adult.

I’m talking about the age of criminal responsibility

It was conducted as an adult trial.

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By *rai69Man over a year ago

Braintree

"It was certainly tough veiwing. Such an emotive case.

And Venables continues to offend... is he evil by birth or nurture? Why have their parents never really been brought to task for their behaviour too?.

Venables wired up right are you joking, is that why at least twice they have found child porn on his computer!!!

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By *ain n MableWoman over a year ago

Milton Keynes

" P.s

He was tried under law as a child for his murder, but he was released as an adult.

I’m talking about the age of criminal responsibility

So what do you personally think the age of criminal responsibility is? Do you not think at 10yrs of age you shouldn't be responsible for killing someone? Do 10yr olds think that's an acceptable thing to do! I'm intrigued at your thinking.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" P.s

He was tried under law as a child for his murder, but he was released as an adult.

I’m talking about the age of criminal responsibility

Did you watch the documentary? I found the psychologists findings in Norway interesting around child brains etc and the fact we have a much lower age than many countries, and the discussion around comprehension of consequence rather than just knowing if something is abstractly wrong. I also found the question posed in the documentary challenging, which was if we deem that 10year olds understand so fully right and wrong at 10 then we can as easily have a jury of 10year olds passing judgement and he questioned if any adult would be comfortable being faced by a jury of 10year olds to pass judgement on their actions. Really interesting.

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By *abs..Woman over a year ago

"The original crime may have been committed by 10 year old children but the continuation of criminal acts involving the exploitation of children continues well into adulthood.

It’s obscene that this can be the case.

But that’s not how current systems work Babs. "

That doesn’t make it right though, the system is failing protect the innocent ... children are put at risk.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"By making documentaries about these sort of cases all they are doing are stirring bad memories for the loved ones and giving attention to the depraved sick FUCKS that commit these sort of crimes .

The only attention that they deserve is a slow publicly inflicted death "

Completely agree. 10 year olds know right from wrong. They planned it. Little Jamie wasn't the first child they had tried to take, they had already attempted to snatch another child earlier.

They dragged him for over 2 miles while he was screaming for him mom the whole time they told him they were taking him to her.

They beat him, sexually assaulted him, stamped on him, threw housebricks at his face and head, and continued every time the poor little baby got back up, they smeared paint in his face, they beat him with an iron bar and when his tiny body gave in they covered him in bricks and left him lying on the railway to be hit by a train.

One then went back to the site to see the flowers that were left. They showed zero remorse in their interviews. Absolutely none.

The evil little bastards should have been locked away and forgotten about. Scum like that don't deserve help and hell yes I'd say the same if it had been my child who had done it.

I'm not interested in their background or trying to find some excuse to justify their actions. They tortured and murdered a baby. There is no forgiveness or excuses. None. I hoped the evil bastard gets his throat cut in prison.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The original crime may have been committed by 10 year old children but the continuation of criminal acts involving the exploitation of children continues well into adulthood.

It’s obscene that this can be the case.

But that’s not how current systems work Babs.

That doesn’t make it right though, the system is failing protect the innocent ... children are put at risk. "

No, I meant providing them anonymity doesn’t mean we are exposing children they come into contact with, anonymity doesn’t mean they aren’t under Jigsaw/MAPPA monitoring. It doesn’t mean “off you go and meet children”.

And how much is the expense of ensuring we don’t degenerate into a lynch mob of vigilantes? Yes, I’d rather we didn’t have to pay (no idea what the actual cost is) but if it stops vigilantes then so be it, in my opinion. I don’t think vigilantism is justified and sadly the tragedy of what they did would mean it’s likely.

But, it is highly emotive and so tragic. I just wanted to clarify that anonymity did not mean freedom from monitoring, which is just how I read you post, I may have read it differently to your intent though.

The followup issue however, is lack of resourcing to criminal justice teams, who are stretched - but therein lies the political debate of government decision making. Different thread perhaps.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"By making documentaries about these sort of cases all they are doing are stirring bad memories for the loved ones and giving attention to the depraved sick FUCKS that commit these sort of crimes .

The only attention that they deserve is a slow publicly inflicted death

Completely agree. 10 year olds know right from wrong. They planned it. Little Jamie wasn't the first child they had tried to take, they had already attempted to snatch another child earlier.

They dragged him for over 2 miles while he was screaming for him mom the whole time they told him they were taking him to her.

One then went back to the site to see the flowers that were left. They showed zero remorse in their interviews. Absolutely none.

The evil little bastards should have been locked away and forgotten about. Scum like that don't deserve help and hell yes I'd say the same if it had been my child who had done it.

Absolutely spot on!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"By making documentaries about these sort of cases all they are doing are stirring bad memories for the loved ones and giving attention to the depraved sick FUCKS that commit these sort of crimes .

The only attention that they deserve is a slow publicly inflicted death

Completely agree. 10 year olds know right from wrong. They planned it. Little Jamie wasn't the first child they had tried to take, they had already attempted to snatch another child earlier.

They dragged him for over 2 miles while he was screaming for him mom the whole time they told him they were taking him to her.

One then went back to the site to see the flowers that were left. They showed zero remorse in their interviews. Absolutely none.

The evil little bastards should have been locked away and forgotten about. Scum like that don't deserve help and hell yes I'd say the same if it had been my child who had done it.

Totally empathise with your anger. It was horrific. I’m questioning the comprehension of consequences (this was part of the documentary) at the age, not negating the fact there was premeditation, and how well they were perhaps. I take your point that you’d be as strongly sure if it was your child who committed the crime, fair enough.

And you’d be happy having a jury of ten year olds make judgement on you, I still keep coming back to this question as for me it really shifts a comfort that ten year olds are absolutely adult enough. But I can understand if someone disagrees.

Wishing someone gets their throat cut in prison though? Umm. That’s a bit (for me) torturous and murderous.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think theres a big difference between whether a ten year old knows when they are doing wrong and having ten year olds on a jury.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think theres a big difference between whether a ten year old knows when they are doing wrong and having ten year olds on a jury. "

Not if we are deciding about understanding right from wrong and consequences in order to determine adult criminal responsibility.

I’m not suggesting the activities are comparable that killing someone is the same as being a jury member, or niceness of someone in either activity, etc. We’re talking about cognitive comprehension. It’s part of the debate from the documentary, it’s not my sole opinion.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think theres a big difference between whether a ten year old knows when they are doing wrong and having ten year olds on a jury.

Not if we are deciding about understanding right from wrong and consequences in order to determine adult criminal responsibility.

I disagree.

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By *abs..Woman over a year ago

"The original crime may have been committed by 10 year old children but the continuation of criminal acts involving the exploitation of children continues well into adulthood.

It’s obscene that this can be the case.

But that’s not how current systems work Babs.

That doesn’t make it right though, the system is failing protect the innocent ... children are put at risk.

The followup issue however, is lack of resourcing to criminal justice teams, who are stretched - but therein lies the political debate of government decision making. Different thread perhaps. "

Monitoring hasn’t protected more children from harm though has it? The system failed on that front. I do realise they are monitored but that hasn’t worked, neither has the work around rehabilitation that was provided.

I don’t condone any violence it’s not part of who I am. I still don’t believe we should protect the guilty to these lengths whilst exposing others to danger. They are protected at the expense of others safety in my opinion. They continue to commit crimes and I feel their anonymity only enables them further, it doesn’t help prevent them from exploiting children.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"By making documentaries about these sort of cases all they are doing are stirring bad memories for the loved ones and giving attention to the depraved sick FUCKS that commit these sort of crimes .

The only attention that they deserve is a slow publicly inflicted death

Completely agree. 10 year olds know right from wrong. They planned it. Little Jamie wasn't the first child they had tried to take, they had already attempted to snatch another child earlier.

They dragged him for over 2 miles while he was screaming for him mom the whole time they told him they were taking him to her.

One then went back to the site to see the flowers that were left. They showed zero remorse in their interviews. Absolutely none.

The evil little bastards should have been locked away and forgotten about. Scum like that don't deserve help and hell yes I'd say the same if it had been my child who had done it.

Wishing someone gets their throat cut in prison though? Umm. That’s a bit (for me) torturous and murderous. "

They were fully aware of the consequences, which is why they lied continually. Even their own lawyers said they were efficient and calculating liars.

A 10 year old is fully aware of their actions and the consequences. This wasn't spur of the moment or rough play gone to far. They set out that day to kill a baby.

At 10 they were fully aware of right and wrong.

Do I accept that at 10 they didn't have the mental capacity to think what it would mean for their future, yes I do.

However, that doesn't mitigate the fact that they were fully mentally aware and in control, and knew exactly what their immediate actions would do to that baby.

If a 10 year's old is mentally developed enough to premeditate the snatching, torture, sexual assault and murder of a baby, then damn right they should be tried as an adult.

Having his throat slit would be far too quick a death for the evil bastard, but I'd be fine with that if it keeps any children who may end up in his vicinity in the future safe.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The original crime may have been committed by 10 year old children but the continuation of criminal acts involving the exploitation of children continues well into adulthood.

It’s obscene that this can be the case.

But that’s not how current systems work Babs.

That doesn’t make it right though, the system is failing protect the innocent ... children are put at risk.

The followup issue however, is lack of resourcing to criminal justice teams, who are stretched - but therein lies the political debate of government decision making. Different thread perhaps.

Have they both? I’m still in disagreement in principle, but I appreciate your opinion is different. And yes, Venables further offences are shameful.