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God should decide when he dies.
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A woman fighting to stop doctors ending life support treatment for her sick 11-month-old son has told a judge that God should decide when he dies.
Specialists at King's College Hospital said giving further treatment to Isaiah Haastrup is"futile, burdensome and not in his best interests".
Ms Thomas, a Pentecostal Christian, said: "For me, I don't think it is right to say who should live or who should die. If God wants to take the person, He will."
Of course it is very very sad and my sympathies go to the family AND the medical team involved
However does Ms Thomas miss the point that her god is making that decision , and if her god exists and wants the child to live , taking the child off life support would indeed be giving god the choice
Humanity has discovered that however much a god wants a person to die, they almost never do whilst on life support ? Yet when given just god support death often comes swiftly
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Am I missing something here. The child is on life support treatment according to OP ie without such treatment the child would probably die of "natural causes"
Yet despite the above if it was my child I would gladly swap my life for theirs.
Perhaps those involved should be left to both make the decisions they feel they need to make and grieve privately without becoming a media or forum sideshow...
Personally OP I think this thread should be taken down. |
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By *isaB45Woman
over a year ago
Fabville |
Sadly, there will be no winners or loosers in this court case.
Both the parents and the medical teams want what is best for the poor wee man, and they have very different peespectives about what that is.
Let us hope that everyone involved can unite for the remainder of his undoubtedly short life. |
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By *ewrocksWoman
over a year ago
button moon |
Wants God to decide, but happy to rely on science to save him? It's a bloody awful position to be in. I've been there. But if the docs are saying there's nothing left they can do, then imo it's time to let him go.  |
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This is undoubtedly costing hundreds of throusands of pounds. Not including legal fees. The solicitors will be rubbing their hands over this.
The second this is in the public domain the hospital lose the PR battle and undermines confidence in the NHS, whilst further stretching resources.
We (according to law) live in a secular society. Time for people like this to wise up and realise they can't demand personalised treatment on the basis of their delusion. |
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By *ewrocksWoman
over a year ago
button moon |
"Well if the life support, which does a good job of keeping someone alive whther they like it or not.. is turned off...
Their 'god' will decide pretty quick.
Everybody's happy
"
Well you're a dick. How is a baby's death going to make everyone happy?! What a stupid thing to say.  |
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I would knock her beliefs but I would want what’s best for my child.
Having never been in that situation and touch wood never will be. I would think she would cling to any small crumb of comfort and hope she could have.
What a horrible situation for everybody concerned |
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By *ransGuyTV/TS
over a year ago
Cardiff |
If she thinks that it is up to her God to decide then why keep her child alive on life support, a man-made way of keeping someone alive, and so not actually allowing her God to decide?
The answer is nothing to with God in my opinion. It's all to do with a Mother who is struggling with the reality that she is losing her child and is trying whatever she can to delay that happening. She is probably hoping that something may change if she keeps stalling which will allow her child to survive.
We can make fun of religion all we like, but I think that religion plays a very small part in this. This is all about a Mother facing the loss of her child. She is going through hell at the moment and is clutching at anything she can because what is facing her is unbearable. |
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"I would knock her beliefs but I would want what’s best for my child.
Having never been in that situation and touch wood never will be. I would think she would cling to any small crumb of comfort and hope she could have.
What a horrible situation for everybody concerned "
*wouldnt Knock her beliefs |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As someone who is himself terminally ill with Pulmonary Fibrosis I can honestly say I have come to terms with knowing that I will die when I die.
I was brought up a catholic but no longer subscribe to catholicism. I do believe there is a 'power' in the universe but I dont believe it can or does intefere.
I can therefore say that I understand the mother wanting to do everything to save her child but in the end what will happen will happen, my heart goes out to both her and her child.
As an adult I know I will eventually suffocate to death at which point I will ask for and they will give palliative care which generally involves injections of drug cocktails to alleviate my suffering and straining to draw breath...this will in all probability eventually send me into a peaceful sleep that I will not awaken from.
A baby cant ask for the same palliative care but as someone who has faced the reality of his own end I think I would probably want the same thing for a child.
However as a parent I dont think I would find that choice quite so simple, as I said my heart goes out to both of them and I hope that the end when it comes is as peaceful as as I am hoping mine will be. |
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By *isaB45Woman
over a year ago
Fabville |
"As someone who is himself terminally ill with Pulmonary Fibrosis I can honestly say I have come to terms with knowing that I will die when I die.
I was brought up a catholic but no longer subscribe to catholicism. I do believe there is a 'power' in the universe but I dont believe it can or does intefere.
I can therefore say that I understand the mother wanting to do everything to save her child but in the end what will happen will happen, my heart goes out to both her and her child.
As an adult I know I will eventually suffocate to death at which point I will ask for and they will give palliative care which generally involves injections of drug cocktails to alleviate my suffering and straining to draw breath...this will in all probability eventually send me into a peaceful sleep that I will not awaken from.
A baby cant ask for the same palliative care but as someone who has faced the reality of his own end I think I would probably want the same thing for a child.
However as a parent I dont think I would find that choice quite so simple, as I said my heart goes out to both of them and I hope that the end when it comes is as peaceful as as I am hoping mine will be."
Thank you, for sharing your story, your humility and your compassion x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What's this god stuff all about?
Any evidence? I've heard a few stories but yet to see anything with my own eyes.
Cruel world we live in."
Alright, Richard Dawkins, calm down...  |
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"As someone who is himself terminally ill with Pulmonary Fibrosis I can honestly say I have come to terms with knowing that I will die when I die.
I was brought up a catholic but no longer subscribe to catholicism. I do believe there is a 'power' in the universe but I dont believe it can or does intefere.
I can therefore say that I understand the mother wanting to do everything to save her child but in the end what will happen will happen, my heart goes out to both her and her child.
As an adult I know I will eventually suffocate to death at which point I will ask for and they will give palliative care which generally involves injections of drug cocktails to alleviate my suffering and straining to draw breath...this will in all probability eventually send me into a peaceful sleep that I will not awaken from.
A baby cant ask for the same palliative care but as someone who has faced the reality of his own end I think I would probably want the same thing for a child.
However as a parent I dont think I would find that choice quite so simple, as I said my heart goes out to both of them and I hope that the end when it comes is as peaceful as as I am hoping mine will be."
Hugs from both of us x |
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By *ikeC81Man
over a year ago
harrow |
A someone who in the last 7 years has watched both parents on life support (both survived). I can understand why the mother wants to keep him on LS but then I understand the medical professionals as well. This little boy is clearly not well at all, and the chance of him having a normal fruitful life are slim if not virtually nil The mother should accept that and let the doctors remove Ls and let him pass in dignity |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As someone who is himself terminally ill with Pulmonary Fibrosis I can honestly say I have come to terms with knowing that I will die when I die.
I was brought up a catholic but no longer subscribe to catholicism. I do believe there is a 'power' in the universe but I dont believe it can or does intefere.
I can therefore say that I understand the mother wanting to do everything to save her child but in the end what will happen will happen, my heart goes out to both her and her child.
As an adult I know I will eventually suffocate to death at which point I will ask for and they will give palliative care which generally involves injections of drug cocktails to alleviate my suffering and straining to draw breath...this will in all probability eventually send me into a peaceful sleep that I will not awaken from.
A baby cant ask for the same palliative care but as someone who has faced the reality of his own end I think I would probably want the same thing for a child.
However as a parent I dont think I would find that choice quite so simple, as I said my heart goes out to both of them and I hope that the end when it comes is as peaceful as as I am hoping mine will be.
Hugs from both of us x"
Thank You xx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Gods having a right laugh thats why he's a c**t. If god were real he would of just taken the child rather than put the parents through all thr pain. I curse him if he exists daily. Im still waiting for a punishment. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I could get very deep and ask if god really exists then why blah blah blah but this isn’t going to change the situation for those parents, baby or medical team (not as though my opinion on a swing site is going to help either).
When Charlie Gard’s parents were fighting to save him, at the start like everyone I was willing him on and wanting him to survive but then became a point and after reading lots of the available reports my opinion was very much ‘pro gosh’ for want of a better word, when they finally accepted that there wasn’t anything more the doctors could do and they wanted to take him home to die I said to myself if there is a god then he will act then but I also 99% knew that as soon as they removed his life support then he would pass quite quickly but there was always that glimmer of hope.
As parents you want what’s best for your children, you do anything for them, love them unconditionally and ultimately would trade your life for theirs if you could but in some fucked up cases it doesn’t matter how much you try and do the above it just isn’t meant to be and if the boot was on the other foot and it was my child I would like to think that I would listen to the doctors etc but I guess until you are faced with it, we don’t really know what we would do.
Sorry it’s long, geeky x |
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"As someone who is himself terminally ill with Pulmonary Fibrosis I can honestly say I have come to terms with knowing that I will die when I die.
I was brought up a catholic but no longer subscribe to catholicism. I do believe there is a 'power' in the universe but I dont believe it can or does intefere.
I can therefore say that I understand the mother wanting to do everything to save her child but in the end what will happen will happen, my heart goes out to both her and her child.
As an adult I know I will eventually suffocate to death at which point I will ask for and they will give palliative care which generally involves injections of drug cocktails to alleviate my suffering and straining to draw breath...this will in all probability eventually send me into a peaceful sleep that I will not awaken from.
A baby cant ask for the same palliative care but as someone who has faced the reality of his own end I think I would probably want the same thing for a child.
However as a parent I dont think I would find that choice quite so simple, as I said my heart goes out to both of them and I hope that the end when it comes is as peaceful as as I am hoping mine will be."
We lost our Father/in law and brother/in law to this dreadful disease, both of them were very mindful that they didn't let it change their way of living, to the point of our brother not even telling us how advanced he was due to the recent loss of dad. Dad went very suddenly and brother went the way you have described....bastard disease.
I hope you get to fulfil your dreams and desires x |
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"I would knock her beliefs but I would want what’s best for my child.
Having never been in that situation and touch wood never will be. I would think she would cling to any small crumb of comfort and hope she could have.
What a horrible situation for everybody concerned
*wouldnt Knock her beliefs "
I agree with you.
Sometimes when there seems no hope, people find solace in religion. If it works for people why knock them for it, no one has to like their decision. |
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As a mother who faced similar, I can fully understand what this woman is going through right now.
Seeing your child on lifesupport is the worst thing you can ever witness, being told they may not pull through, grasping at any hope, praying for a miracle to happen, but then questioning if there was a god why do that to my boy. I lost my religion that year.
For us though we knew my son had a chance, and he was a fighter.
He'll never be the child he was before, he'll carry on his fight for the rest of his life. But I got him back
I do know, if we'd been told with 100% certainty that he'd not survive, the only thing keeping him with us was a machine, I'd have made the choice to let him go.
As a teen, I watched my grandad spend the last years of his life on machines and I decided then, I'd never want that, it's not a life, it's not living & I wouldn't put my children through it either. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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One of these days your gonna wake up dead.
cold in your bed if your lucky.
And if your lucky, you might find love and if you're lucky you might have kids and if you're lucky you'll be glad that you did |
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"Am I missing something here. The child is on life support treatment according to OP ie without such treatment the child would probably die of "natural causes"
Yet despite the above if it was my child I would gladly swap my life for theirs.
Perhaps those involved should be left to both make the decisions they feel they need to make and grieve privately without becoming a media or forum sideshow...
Personally OP I think this thread should be taken down."
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