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Construction firm Cariliion goes into liquidation
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"I wonder what this means for Amey as they are part of the same umbrella company I believe. It's never good to hear of people losing jobs etc and on the face of it you would have thought carillon were OK as they had a lot of new high profile contracts. " Astonishes me how a company with that much business can go into liquidation. What kind of management has been going on? | |||
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"The government kept giving them contracts despite profit warnings. Now they have to fund the firm to get the contracts finished. Someone needs to answer why that happened. " Yeah listening to the news last week, it’s just incredulous the high profile projects they have / had. As for management ....  | |||
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"From what I have read the excecs have all had huge bonuses and they have had them protected. Another company that’s too big to fail. I can see a bail out coming. " I think it’s gone beyond that point now. | |||
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"If the Tories bail out Caillion instead of the NHS it should be the end of their reign of capatilistic class war " It’s gone into liquidation. No one is bailing them out. They have been in talks for quite a while now, but all attempts have failed. They’ve gone. | |||
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"I wonder what this means for Amey as they are part of the same umbrella company I believe. It's never good to hear of people losing jobs etc and on the face of it you would have thought carillon were OK as they had a lot of new high profile contracts. Astonishes me how a company with that much business can go into liquidation. What kind of management has been going on?" I'm imagining that some people got a fair bit of money out before the administration measure 
It's terrible news for the country and employees. So many public contracts they've been awarded to run our services, in education, health sectors and elsewhere. I think better scrutiny should have been undertaken on their financial strength before jeopardizing public services.
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"I wonder what this means for Amey as they are part of the same umbrella company I believe. It's never good to hear of people losing jobs etc and on the face of it you would have thought carillon were OK as they had a lot of new high profile contracts. Astonishes me how a company with that much business can go into liquidation. What kind of management has been going on? I'm imagining that some people got a fair bit of money out before the administration measure
It's terrible news for the country and employees. So many public contracts they've been awarded to run our services, in education, health sectors and elsewhere. I think better scrutiny should have been undertaken on their financial strength before jeopardizing public services.
"And prisons and MOD and HS2. A government rep has just been on the news telling employees to go to work, they will be paid. And suppliers can still be paid albeit by the liquidator. Perosnally i’d be very wary. Recruiters face a busy day. | |||
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"The industry seems to be blighted. In my area alone we have lost so many companies - contractors that you’d have thought would be rock solid. News saying around 20,000 employees for Carillion. What a bleak day ahead "By the time they have taken into account the knock on effect the figure will rise to 25 or 30,000 I bet. Companies shouldn't be allowed to get so big. | |||
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"The industry seems to be blighted. In my area alone we have lost so many companies - contractors that you’d have thought would be rock solid. News saying around 20,000 employees for Carillion. What a bleak day ahead
By the time they have taken into account the knock on effect the figure will rise to 25 or 30,000 I bet. Companies shouldn't be allowed to get so big. "Sadly the people who have made these monumentous and disastraus decisions to cause this, won’t be the ones worrying how to pay their rent / mortgages. | |||
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"From FT - "Philip Green, chairman of Carillion" Would that be the same Philp Green who shafted BHS and sent the money to his wife in Monacco?" I don’t think so. I think it’s an unfortunate coincidence. | |||
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" Astonishes me how a company with that much business can go into liquidation. What kind of management has been going on?" Because profit margins on government contracts are small and most contracts are fixed price. If you under estimate the cost then there's a small margin of error before you are into losses. | |||
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"From FT - "Philip Green, chairman of Carillion" Would that be the same Philp Green who shafted BHS and sent the money to his wife in Monacco?" That Phillip Green is the owner of Arcadia the retail group including Topshop, Topman, Burtons, Dorothy Perkins and Wallis. | |||
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"The government kept giving them contracts despite profit warnings. " The government doesn't have a choice, it has to follow a process when awarding contracts and profit warnings are not a criteria for blocking a tender. Financial stability is but obviously they passed that criteria at the time. | |||
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"The industry seems to be blighted. In my area alone we have lost so many companies - contractors that you’d have thought would be rock solid. News saying around 20,000 employees for Carillion. What a bleak day ahead
By the time they have taken into account the knock on effect the figure will rise to 25 or 30,000 I bet. Companies shouldn't be allowed to get so big.
Sadly the people who have made these monumentous and disastraus decisions to cause this, won’t be the ones worrying how to pay their rent / mortgages."Through the school tie and old boy network the big wigs will soon find new employment... honour intact. They can probably afford to take their time and a short break while they wait for the phone to ring. It's always the little people that pay the price! | |||
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"Including overseas it's about 45000 jobs. Compulsory liquidation means the company will be sold off and away a used to pay back the banks. Pensions in part are protected by pensions regulator. Biggest damage will be to thousands of sun contractors and suppliers many of whom have not been paid. Contracts will be relet another huge cost so impact is huge. Only people who will lose out in the end are the workers. I hope they find new work as this company is now broken up..." I hope the labour party uses this as an opportunity to create these worker cooperatives they've been talking about - they'll never get a better opportunity. | |||
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"As a sub contractor I live with the constant nightmare of being left high and dry. The Government don't help SME's by not enforcing strict thirty days payment to sub contractors.I feel for all the small firms and employees who are on the receiving end of the Carrilion news. "  and Carillion are one of many treating their supply chain in this way. Who can manage their books with 60/90/120 days ! Or the classic post contract snagging trick to avoid payment altogether. | |||
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"why was this company allowed to get so big hope all these contracts get shared out now ... these big companies are greed pots the only winners are those at the top ... scum ...while all the real workers lose out again" As a general rule of thumb, the companies are expected to be big enough that individual contracts are not more than 40% of their turnover. Big contracts = big companies. | |||
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"lol those playing the politics card don't forget torys AND labour have fed this company with contracts lol " The contracts are not awarded by political parties. They are awarded by civil servants who follow a transparent process to select the most economically advantageous tender. | |||
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" The contracts are not awarded by political parties. They are awarded by civil servants who follow a transparent process to select the most economically advantageous tender. " and you really belive that ?? | |||
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" The contracts are not awarded by political parties. They are awarded by civil servants who follow a transparent process to select the most economically advantageous tender. and you really belive that ?? " It's not a belief, it's a fact. Honestly save face while you can. I sincerely doubt you know this subject the way i do. | |||
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"lol those playing the politics card don't forget torys AND labour have fed this company with contracts lol The contracts are not awarded by political parties. They are awarded by civil servants who follow a transparent process to select the most economically advantageous tender. " Absolutely spot on. | |||
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"I wonder what this means for Amey as they are part of the same umbrella company I believe. It's never good to hear of people losing jobs etc and on the face of it you would have thought carillon were OK as they had a lot of new high profile contracts. Astonishes me how a company with that much business can go into liquidation. What kind of management has been going on? I'm imagining that some people got a fair bit of money out before the administration measure
It's terrible news for the country and employees. So many public contracts they've been awarded to run our services, in education, health sectors and elsewhere. I think better scrutiny should have been undertaken on their financial strength before jeopardizing public services.
And prisons and MOD and HS2.
A government rep has just been on the news telling employees to go to work, they will be paid. And suppliers can still be paid albeit by the liquidator.
"The little people won't be paid so that is awful advice | |||
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"As a sub contractor I live with the constant nightmare of being left high and dry. The Government don't help SME's by not enforcing strict thirty days payment to sub contractors.I feel for all the small firms and employees who are on the receiving end of the Carrilion news. and Carillion are one of many treating their supply chain in this way. Who can manage their books with 60/90/120 days ! Or the classic post contract snagging trick to avoid payment altogether. "Sadly this is true. Also retentions being held for twelve months impacts on cash flow. To get a sign off on a project is a nightmare delay tatics.Often asked the question if you want our work this is how it is.So now I am very selective. Risk will always be there but being held to ransom is a criminal act in my yes. I take it you are a QS? | |||
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"As a sub contractor I live with the constant nightmare of being left high and dry. The Government don't help SME's by not enforcing strict thirty days payment to sub contractors.I feel for all the small firms and employees who are on the receiving end of the Carrilion news. and Carillion are one of many treating their supply chain in this way. Who can manage their books with 60/90/120 days ! Or the classic post contract snagging trick to avoid payment altogether. Sadly this is true. Also retentions being held for twelve months impacts on cash flow. To get a sign off on a project is a nightmare delay tatics.Often asked the question if you want our work this is how it is.So now I am very selective. Risk will always be there but being held to ransom is a criminal act in my yes. I take it you are a QS?"No! Ex M&E contractors and now work for a manufacturer in same industry. | |||
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" The contracts are not awarded by political parties. They are awarded by civil servants who follow a transparent process to select the most economically advantageous tender. and you really belive that ?? It's not a belief, it's a fact. Honestly save face while you can. I sincerely doubt you know this subject the way i do. " On paper maybe. I have been involved in tendering in the public sector and we often knew who the contracts would go to before the tenders were even in. Old boy network wins every time and the tender process is an illusion. | |||
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"I wonder what this means for Amey as they are part of the same umbrella company I believe. It's never good to hear of people losing jobs etc and on the face of it you would have thought carillon were OK as they had a lot of new high profile contracts. Astonishes me how a company with that much business can go into liquidation. What kind of management has been going on? I'm imagining that some people got a fair bit of money out before the administration measure
It's terrible news for the country and employees. So many public contracts they've been awarded to run our services, in education, health sectors and elsewhere. I think better scrutiny should have been undertaken on their financial strength before jeopardizing public services.
And prisons and MOD and HS2.
A government rep has just been on the news telling employees to go to work, they will be paid. And suppliers can still be paid albeit by the liquidator.
The little people won't be paid so that is awful advice"I think so. And as an employee, my loyalty would be to myself today and to get a head start before the other 19,999 people start ringing the recruiters. | |||
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" The contracts are not awarded by political parties. They are awarded by civil servants who follow a transparent process to select the most economically advantageous tender. and you really belive that ?? It's not a belief, it's a fact. Honestly save face while you can. I sincerely doubt you know this subject the way i do. On paper maybe. I have been involved in tendering in the public sector and we often knew who the contracts would go to before the tenders were even in. Old boy network wins every time and the tender process is an illusion. " Ok i'll look past the admission of corruption and crimes... How recently are you talking and which government agency was awarding the contract(s)? | |||
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"As a sub contractor I live with the constant nightmare of being left high and dry. The Government don't help SME's by not enforcing strict thirty days payment to sub contractors.I feel for all the small firms and employees who are on the receiving end of the Carrilion news. and Carillion are one of many treating their supply chain in this way. Who can manage their books with 60/90/120 days ! Or the classic post contract snagging trick to avoid payment altogether. Sadly this is true. Also retentions being held for twelve months impacts on cash flow. To get a sign off on a project is a nightmare delay tatics.Often asked the question if you want our work this is how it is.So now I am very selective. Risk will always be there but being held to ransom is a criminal act in my yes. I take it you are a QS?
No! Ex M&E contractors and now work for a manufacturer in same industry. "Well you know how I feel then. | |||
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"As a sub contractor I live with the constant nightmare of being left high and dry. The Government don't help SME's by not enforcing strict thirty days payment to sub contractors.I feel for all the small firms and employees who are on the receiving end of the Carrilion news. and Carillion are one of many treating their supply chain in this way. Who can manage their books with 60/90/120 days ! Or the classic post contract snagging trick to avoid payment altogether. Sadly this is true. Also retentions being held for twelve months impacts on cash flow. To get a sign off on a project is a nightmare delay tatics.Often asked the question if you want our work this is how it is.So now I am very selective. Risk will always be there but being held to ransom is a criminal act in my yes. I take it you are a QS?
No! Ex M&E contractors and now work for a manufacturer in same industry. Well you know how I feel then."Yes. My late husbands business went into liquidation when another large builder defaulted on £80k. Sadly HMRC weren’t so patient. I think government could do something to stop the bully boy mentality of these companies to their subbies. | |||
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"I'm still recovering from when ROK went under,I lost alot of money in wages and still receiving letters from PWC. You would have thought that the government would have learned their lessons when the likes of ROK and Connought went under that was around ten thousand jobs but was little reported coz hey we are only hairy arsed builder's who gives a shit? Putting all their egg's in one basket giving one contractor the bulk of the government contracts was a very unwise choice. Problem is now who is big enough to fill the breach? I can only see Kier being big enough most other firms are not set up for such a massive amount of work. " Surely the work would be better shared out anyway? | |||
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"I'm still recovering from when ROK went under,I lost alot of money in wages and still receiving letters from PWC. You would have thought that the government would have learned their lessons when the likes of ROK and Connought went under that was around ten thousand jobs but was little reported coz hey we are only hairy arsed builder's who gives a shit? Putting all their egg's in one basket giving one contractor the bulk of the government contracts was a very unwise choice. Problem is now who is big enough to fill the breach? I can only see Kier being big enough most other firms are not set up for such a massive amount of work. Surely the work would be better shared out anyway?" NHS would probably save she'd loads of each trust was able to bring maintenance back to being in-house or negotiate their own local contractors. Same with prisons etc... | |||
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"As a sub contractor I live with the constant nightmare of being left high and dry. The Government don't help SME's by not enforcing strict thirty days payment to sub contractors.I feel for all the small firms and employees who are on the receiving end of the Carrilion news. and Carillion are one of many treating their supply chain in this way. Who can manage their books with 60/90/120 days ! Or the classic post contract snagging trick to avoid payment altogether. Sadly this is true. Also retentions being held for twelve months impacts on cash flow. To get a sign off on a project is a nightmare delay tatics.Often asked the question if you want our work this is how it is.So now I am very selective. Risk will always be there but being held to ransom is a criminal act in my yes. I take it you are a QS?
No! Ex M&E contractors and now work for a manufacturer in same industry. Well you know how I feel then.
Yes. My late husbands business went into liquidation when another large builder defaulted on £80k. Sadly HMRC weren’t so patient. I think government could do something to stop the bully boy mentality of these companies to their subbies."I'm sorry to hear that. I took a hit last year.The stress it causes is terrible.The work is there but like all sectors people are putting in unrealistic bids and the only way these big firms can operate is for claw backs from the supply chain. | |||
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"There has always been a lot of corruption and underhand dealings when it comes to tenders and construction. When I started of as a sole trader council properties were run by the local councils, did a lot of work throughout an entire borough in sheltered housing, communal lounges etc. I got all the work as I was liked and trusted by the individual and area managers and tenants. All of a sudden I was stopped even quoting for the work. It was shortly after a large contractor started decorating work in a public area of a building (high rise stair wells) I was told the price by the area manager who was frankly shocked by the price of 40k. I did a walk through and priced, I added 10% for scale, a further 10% to cover extra insurance's etc. I got the price to 24k and it left a modest profit. This soon got back to the big wigs and I never again got any further work in any council owned buildings. Turned out 2 years later the 3 main contractors were colluding between themselves as to what prices to submit and who would do the jobs, I tried everything to get on the tender list as did the managers I had a good relationship with, we all hit brick walls. I have since set up and successfully ran a modest size Ltd co. I have revisited the job many times in my head as now I obviously have more experience with running larger contracts and I still can't get anywhere near that figure of 40k. Unfortunately a very familiar story. Unfortunately even if I wanted to (which I don't) I don't have a brown envelope big enough to pass over (under) the table. Sorry, bit long winded but I've written it now and not deleting it lol." | |||
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"Will I get paid "Are you an employee ? | |||
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" The contracts are not awarded by political parties. They are awarded by civil servants who follow a transparent process to select the most economically advantageous tender. and you really belive that ?? " Look into Care UK. | |||
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"Will I get paid "Well as they have gone into liquidation rather than administration then possibly no. But if you do get paid it won't be your usual amount. Most have a weekly limit they are allowed to pay. But I could be wrong. | |||
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"Will I get paid "BBC radio 2 news at midday says yes. Who knows what and how much though. Depends whether you're a labourer or the owner of a company that Corilion owes millions too. They are debating it right now on radio 2 | |||
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" Carillion have bid and won so many contracts by being the cheapest option on the table. Not by being the most cost effective. To be the cheapest, they will have used smoke and mirrors to get one contract to cover the overheads of another etc etc. " Indeed but government contracting processes do encourage this practice. There is absolutely minimal use of the laws designed to prevent this (i.e. abnormally low tender). | |||
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" Carillion have bid and won so many contracts by being the cheapest option on the table. Not by being the most cost effective. To be the cheapest, they will have used smoke and mirrors to get one contract to cover the overheads of another etc etc. Indeed but government contracting processes do encourage this practice. There is absolutely minimal use of the laws designed to prevent this (i.e. abnormally low tender). " I’ve only experience at local council level where they do appear to make sure any bids are feasible. | |||
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"I wonder what this means for Amey as they are part of the same umbrella company I believe. It's never good to hear of people losing jobs etc and on the face of it you would have thought carillon were OK as they had a lot of new high profile contracts. " I’ve heard from someone what Amey are not affected by this. We shall see. | |||
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" Carillion have bid and won so many contracts by being the cheapest option on the table. Not by being the most cost effective. To be the cheapest, they will have used smoke and mirrors to get one contract to cover the overheads of another etc etc. Indeed but government contracting processes do encourage this practice. There is absolutely minimal use of the laws designed to prevent this (i.e. abnormally low tender). I’ve only experience at local council level where they do appear to make sure any bids are feasible." Ok, I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum (i.e. very large contracts) and i've never seen anyone care. I think things are a bit more black and white at that level, like the poster above said - you can be pretty objective about £24k vrs £40k but the same can't really be said for £550m vrs £575m. | |||
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"I wonder what this means for Amey as they are part of the same umbrella company I believe. It's never good to hear of people losing jobs etc and on the face of it you would have thought carillon were OK as they had a lot of new high profile contracts. I’ve heard from someone what Amey are not affected by this. We shall see. " I've seen carillion amey vans out this morning working on MOD properties. | |||
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"I wonder what this means for Amey as they are part of the same umbrella company I believe. It's never good to hear of people losing jobs etc and on the face of it you would have thought carillon were OK as they had a lot of new high profile contracts. I’ve heard from someone what Amey are not affected by this. We shall see. I've seen carillion amey vans out this morning working on MOD properties." Indeed. It was in relation to MOD work | |||
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" The contracts are not awarded by political parties. They are awarded by civil servants who follow a transparent process to select the most economically advantageous tender. and you really belive that ?? It's not a belief, it's a fact. Honestly save face while you can. I sincerely doubt you know this subject the way i do. " Yeah right! Unfortunately I can't remember his name but the owner of a vaccine company donated £35k to New Labour, his company was subsequently given an un-tendered vaccine contract worth millions. His company then donated more money to New Labour and he was given a life peerage and made minister for science, if memory serves.....corruption and contracts for sale still going on today. | |||
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"Us(the tax payers) will bail company out because they do work for govenemt and they wont want the 20,000 plus job losses passed on to their shoulders and those at the top will be all right as always "The tax payer will be Picking up the tab for the outstanding work in progress by the sound of it. Not sure those who will become unemployed will be treated any differently to any other situation. They government aren’t bailing the company out, so individuals will have to take what they can from the DWP, which I think is redundancy money and then JSA or ESA?? | |||
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"Hopefully those on the ground the real workers will be taken on by the other companies now who will be stepping in to finish projects already underway,not nice for those that work there but life and work will carry on " Yes I think those with site links might be okay for this. But I bet a lot of back office staff (admin/ finance etc) will be looking for employment elsewhere. | |||
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" The contracts are not awarded by political parties. They are awarded by civil servants who follow a transparent process to select the most economically advantageous tender. and you really belive that ?? It's not a belief, it's a fact. Honestly save face while you can. I sincerely doubt you know this subject the way i do. Yeah right! Unfortunately I can't remember his name but the owner of a vaccine company donated £35k to New Labour, his company was subsequently given an un-tendered vaccine contract worth millions. His company then donated more money to New Labour and he was given a life peerage and made minister for science, if memory serves.....corruption and contracts for sale still going on today." So you found some instances of corruption and determined that it represents the entire system? There's some corruption everywhere, but as a country we are one of the least corrupt countries in the world. A few bad policemen does not mean that the entire police force is controlled by the mob. Nothing like the internet to bring out the conspiracy theorists and the nihilists!! | |||
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"Just read that it's a different Philip green than the BHS one. This one was also the corporate business adviser the Theresa May " Advising her how to get as much money as possible out of something before throwing in the towel? | |||
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"The sub contractor's like myself will get very little, if nothing at all. So how do I tell my boys and finance companies I can not pay them ?? Thank God I did not put all my eggs in one basket. Will have to wait 2 or 3 years to see it I get anything they own me? Hope the pension funds will get paid? " Sorry to hear that. Are you still on site or finished and waiting for payment ? | |||
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"From FT - "Philip Green, chairman of Carillion" Would that be the same Philp Green who shafted BHS and sent the money to his wife in Monacco?" That's where the £500 million pension fund went to then. People like him and board members should in my opinion, be held accountable for companies going under. | |||
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"From FT - "Philip Green, chairman of Carillion" Would that be the same Philp Green who shafted BHS and sent the money to his wife in Monacco? That's where the £500 million pension fund went to then. People like him and board members should in my opinion, be held accountable for companies going under." It’s not that Phillip. | |||
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" The contracts are not awarded by political parties. They are awarded by civil servants who follow a transparent process to select the most economically advantageous tender. and you really belive that ?? It's not a belief, it's a fact. Honestly save face while you can. I sincerely doubt you know this subject the way i do. On paper maybe. I have been involved in tendering in the public sector and we often knew who the contracts would go to before the tenders were even in. Old boy network wins every time and the tender process is an illusion. Ok i'll look past the admission of corruption and crimes... How recently are you talking and which government agency was awarding the contract(s)? " I didn't say I condoned it. In fact I submitted formal reports on 2 occasions. Each time they were ignored. | |||
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" The contracts are not awarded by political parties. They are awarded by civil servants who follow a transparent process to select the most economically advantageous tender. and you really belive that ?? It's not a belief, it's a fact. Honestly save face while you can. I sincerely doubt you know this subject the way i do. Yeah right! Unfortunately I can't remember his name but the owner of a vaccine company donated £35k to New Labour, his company was subsequently given an un-tendered vaccine contract worth millions. His company then donated more money to New Labour and he was given a life peerage and made minister for science, if memory serves.....corruption and contracts for sale still going on today. So you found some instances of corruption and determined that it represents the entire system? There's some corruption everywhere, but as a country we are one of the least corrupt countries in the world. A few bad policemen does not mean that the entire police force is controlled by the mob. Nothing like the internet to bring out the conspiracy theorists and the nihilists!! " Whilst there are occasional instances of corruption, it is actually more about incompetence in the public sector. | |||
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" The contracts are not awarded by political parties. They are awarded by civil servants who follow a transparent process to select the most economically advantageous tender. and you really belive that ?? It's not a belief, it's a fact. Honestly save face while you can. I sincerely doubt you know this subject the way i do. Yeah right! Unfortunately I can't remember his name but the owner of a vaccine company donated £35k to New Labour, his company was subsequently given an un-tendered vaccine contract worth millions. His company then donated more money to New Labour and he was given a life peerage and made minister for science, if memory serves.....corruption and contracts for sale still going on today. So you found some instances of corruption and determined that it represents the entire system? There's some corruption everywhere, but as a country we are one of the least corrupt countries in the world. A few bad policemen does not mean that the entire police force is controlled by the mob. Nothing like the internet to bring out the conspiracy theorists and the nihilists!! Whilst there are occasional instances of corruption, it is actually more about incompetence in the public sector." And that i would agree with. But to be fair, civil servants are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Accept the lowest price tender is signing up for smoke and mirrors pricing, not accepting the lowest price is wasting tax payers money. That doesn't mean there aren't instances where they do also make mistakes, but it has to be taken in context. Frankly ours make a lot less than the civil servants of most other countries in the world. | |||
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"On the radio, the shortfall in the pension fund means those who haven't retired yet, their pension will be 10% less and as each year progresses, they steadily become worse off." Ah ok. I didn’t know the latter. I did read first thing that former employees would be protected. So any current employee who thinks to take the opportunity now to retire is stuffed. | |||
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" The contracts are not awarded by political parties. They are awarded by civil servants who follow a transparent process to select the most economically advantageous tender. and you really belive that ?? It's not a belief, it's a fact. Honestly save face while you can. I sincerely doubt you know this subject the way i do. Yeah right! Unfortunately I can't remember his name but the owner of a vaccine company donated £35k to New Labour, his company was subsequently given an un-tendered vaccine contract worth millions. His company then donated more money to New Labour and he was given a life peerage and made minister for science, if memory serves.....corruption and contracts for sale still going on today. So you found some instances of corruption and determined that it represents the entire system? There's some corruption everywhere, but as a country we are one of the least corrupt countries in the world. A few bad policemen does not mean that the entire police force is controlled by the mob. Nothing like the internet to bring out the conspiracy theorists and the nihilists!! Whilst there are occasional instances of corruption, it is actually more about incompetence in the public sector. And that i would agree with. But to be fair, civil servants are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Accept the lowest price tender is signing up for smoke and mirrors pricing, not accepting the lowest price is wasting tax payers money. That doesn't mean there aren't instances where they do also make mistakes, but it has to be taken in context. Frankly ours make a lot less than the civil servants of most other countries in the world." also known as a brown envelope | |||
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"What I read seems to be they wernt looking money of government... seems to be assurances that stage payments on massive jobs where in time when first agreed , not when stage was finished and passed ... massive mistake by government listened yesterday as industry insider said that whoever takes contracts on first thing they will do is state this and that isn’t built or done will have to be done again... will end up costing taxpayers a lot more than would be to help carillion out of the mess .... " . That scenario plays out exactly the same for every business that fails, what do you wanna do bail out every single company that goes bust?. How many jobs are lost every week when small firms go into liquidation, tens of thousands I'll bet, the only difference here is all the jobs are with one firm instead of a few hundred firms. The actual work hasn't been lost, that will still need doing but it will have to be done by another business because this ones gone tits | |||
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"This is our industry - though neither of us work for them. This will have massive knock on effect for many people. "They are one of the big companies hit by the Saudi/Qatar impass lost best part of 400 million pounds there. A right mess | |||
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"What I read seems to be they wernt looking money of government... seems to be assurances that stage payments on massive jobs where in time when first agreed , not when stage was finished and passed ... massive mistake by government listened yesterday as industry insider said that whoever takes contracts on first thing they will do is state this and that isn’t built or done will have to be done again... will end up costing taxpayers a lot more than would be to help carillion out of the mess .... . That scenario plays out exactly the same for every business that fails, what do you wanna do bail out every single company that goes bust?. How many jobs are lost every week when small firms go into liquidation, tens of thousands I'll bet, the only difference here is all the jobs are with one firm instead of a few hundred firms. The actual work hasn't been lost, that will still need doing but it will have to be done by another business because this ones gone tits" There's no need to bail them out as i see it. People can correct me if I'm wrong but they have ~£1.5bn of debt and 20,000 workers (according to this thread). The debt holders can fuck right off, they lent the money and that's what interest is there for. If the contracts are re-let properly and swiftly then most the 20,000 workers would be subject to TUPE regulations and therefore employed again. | |||
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"The sub contractor's like myself will get very little, if nothing at all. So how do I tell my boys and finance companies I can not pay them ?? Thank God I did not put all my eggs in one basket. Will have to wait 2 or 3 years to see it I get anything they own me? Hope the pension funds will get paid? Sorry to hear that. Are you still on site or finished and waiting for payment ?" Just finish one big job of so was looking forward to a pay day in 90 days. Pulling of other sites tomorrow now | |||
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" The contracts are not awarded by political parties. They are awarded by civil servants who follow a transparent process to select the most economically advantageous tender. and you really belive that ?? It's not a belief, it's a fact. Honestly save face while you can. I sincerely doubt you know this subject the way i do. Yeah right! Unfortunately I can't remember his name but the owner of a vaccine company donated £35k to New Labour, his company was subsequently given an un-tendered vaccine contract worth millions. His company then donated more money to New Labour and he was given a life peerage and made minister for science, if memory serves.....corruption and contracts for sale still going on today. So you found some instances of corruption and determined that it represents the entire system? There's some corruption everywhere, but as a country we are one of the least corrupt countries in the world. A few bad policemen does not mean that the entire police force is controlled by the mob. Nothing like the internet to bring out the conspiracy theorists and the nihilists!! " The only thing I tried to look up on the was the "politician's" name. As for a few instances of corruption within our political system it's rife, have you forget the duck house, cleaning of moats or New Labour's Jackie Smith, Home Secretary at the time, claiming for her husband's hotel porn movie or her claiming £100k+ for "renting" her sister's spare bedroom? | |||
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" The only thing I tried to look up on the was the "politician's" name. As for a few instances of corruption within our political system it's rife, have you forget the duck house, cleaning of moats or New Labour's Jackie Smith, Home Secretary at the time, claiming for her husband's hotel porn movie or her claiming £100k+ for "renting" her sister's spare bedroom? "Compared to what my friend? Do you know why London house prices are so expensive? Because they got bought up by the Russian and Chinese equivalents of MPs who typically retired with ~£25m and needed somewhere to stick their money. That's ~£25m each. A duck house doesn't even touch the sides of what's normal in the rest of the world. Go look at the corruptions perception index. | |||
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"The sub contractor's like myself will get very little, if nothing at all. So how do I tell my boys and finance companies I can not pay them ?? Thank God I did not put all my eggs in one basket. Will have to wait 2 or 3 years to see it I get anything they own me? Hope the pension funds will get paid? Sorry to hear that. Are you still on site or finished and waiting for payment ? Just finish one big job of so was looking forward to a pay day in 90 days. Pulling of other sites tomorrow now " hate this industry at times. Lots of unknowns in your story, but please come back and let us know how you fare. | |||
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" The only thing I tried to look up on the was the "politician's" name. As for a few instances of corruption within our political system it's rife, have you forget the duck house, cleaning of moats or New Labour's Jackie Smith, Home Secretary at the time, claiming for her husband's hotel porn movie or her claiming £100k+ for "renting" her sister's spare bedroom?
Compared to what my friend? Do you know why London house prices are so expensive? Because they got bought up by the Russian and Chinese equivalents of MPs who typically retired with ~£25m and needed somewhere to stick their money. That's ~£25m each. A duck house doesn't even touch the sides of what's normal in the rest of the world. Go look at the corruptions perception index. "So who or what department are you a Special Advisor to then? Is you tolerance to corruption based upon how not-so-bad our MPs are in relation to the rest of the world's then? I've often wondered about those overseas buyers, do they pay stamp duty or capital gains tax? Bet they don't and it's because our governments rig the tax breaks, was you part of that? | |||
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"If the Tories bail out Caillion instead of the NHS it should be the end of their reign of capatilistic class war " | |||
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"If the Tories bail out Caillion instead of the NHS it should be the end of their reign of capatilistic class war "The government will not bail out Carillion. Wonder if the opposition will then bemoan the government not doing enough to support the workers | |||
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"I work at toys r us, the writing is on the wall and has been for awhile now. " I’d forgotten about that - how is it looking for you ? | |||
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"If the Tories bail out Caillion instead of the NHS it should be the end of their reign of capatilistic class war
The government will not bail out Carillion.
Wonder if the opposition will then bemoan the government not doing enough to support the workers "Carillion As a private company won't be bailed out (I assume) but the government will need to use some public cash to keep parts of it going until a replacement contractor be appointed, ie public services contracts etc. I guess that jobs in the private sector will come to a halt with immediate effect unless the client funds the development out of their own pocket. | |||
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"What I read seems to be they wernt looking money of government... seems to be assurances that stage payments on massive jobs where in time when first agreed , not when stage was finished and passed ... massive mistake by government listened yesterday as industry insider said that whoever takes contracts on first thing they will do is state this and that isn’t built or done will have to be done again... will end up costing taxpayers a lot more than would be to help carillion out of the mess .... . That scenario plays out exactly the same for every business that fails, what do you wanna do bail out every single company that goes bust?. How many jobs are lost every week when small firms go into liquidation, tens of thousands I'll bet, the only difference here is all the jobs are with one firm instead of a few hundred firms. The actual work hasn't been lost, that will still need doing but it will have to be done by another business because this ones gone tits There's no need to bail them out as i see it. People can correct me if I'm wrong but they have ~£1.5bn of debt and 20,000 workers (according to this thread). The debt holders can fuck right off, they lent the money and that's what interest is there for. If the contracts are re-let properly and swiftly then most the 20,000 workers would be subject to TUPE regulations and therefore employed again. " ..... you seem to miss my point when all is smoothed over and massive projects continue on it will cost the taxpayers more in the end due to extra work that needs done by other contractors who will say this isn’t right or that neeeds redone.... | |||
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"They will fold and start up under a new name wiping their hands of their debts and sinking lots of small firms by doing so. And we bet the government do nothing to stop them." .... yup agree !!! | |||
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"TUPE law doesn’t cover sub contract labour. 99% of work in the construction industry is carried out sub contract, there are few in direct employment other than admin and managerial." ... think tupe only applies after you meet certain criteria | |||
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"What I read seems to be they wernt looking money of government... seems to be assurances that stage payments on massive jobs where in time when first agreed , not when stage was finished and passed ... massive mistake by government listened yesterday as industry insider said that whoever takes contracts on first thing they will do is state this and that isn’t built or done will have to be done again... will end up costing taxpayers a lot more than would be to help carillion out of the mess .... . That scenario plays out exactly the same for every business that fails, what do you wanna do bail out every single company that goes bust?. How many jobs are lost every week when small firms go into liquidation, tens of thousands I'll bet, the only difference here is all the jobs are with one firm instead of a few hundred firms. The actual work hasn't been lost, that will still need doing but it will have to be done by another business because this ones gone tits There's no need to bail them out as i see it. People can correct me if I'm wrong but they have ~£1.5bn of debt and 20,000 workers (according to this thread). The debt holders can fuck right off, they lent the money and that's what interest is there for. If the contracts are re-let properly and swiftly then most the 20,000 workers would be subject to TUPE regulations and therefore employed again. " The government can change the law retrospectively just like they did in Ireland when they took unsecured debt and made the tax payer liable for it and bailed out the lenders. also the order of who gets paid out the money from bankruptcy has been changed many times in the past if government wants to. contract law is there to keep the people in power in power. Hopefully someone who works in the head office and understands they will loose there job leaks the companies contracts and financial information for everyone to see. | |||
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"Not good, it is a mix of mismanagement and brexit." How is it brexit ? | |||
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"Not good, it is a mix of mismanagement and brexit. How is it brexit ?" yeah personally I’m wondering how so many mangers with such big fat salaries have made such a colossal fuck up. I’m blamimg management. | |||
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"i hope that everyone gets paid as they said they wont be after today "I didn’t hear that. The MP on tell yesterday was encouraging all workers and subbies to continue as normal, and they’d get paid direct by government. Meanwhile back in reality | |||
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"Not good, it is a mix of mismanagement and brexit. How is it brexit ? yeah personally I’m wondering how so many mangers with such big fat salaries have made such a colossal fuck up. I’m blamimg management. "Yes. I reckon it is more with mismanagement. | |||
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"i hope that everyone gets paid as they said they wont be after today
I didn’t hear that. The MP on tell yesterday was encouraging all workers and subbies to continue as normal, and they’d get paid direct by government.
Meanwhile back in reality "was in the news today. the industry i am in we have them working with us too. | |||
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"Not good, it is a mix of mismanagement and brexit. How is it brexit ? yeah personally I’m wondering how so many mangers with such big fat salaries have made such a colossal fuck up. I’m blamimg management. Yes. I reckon it is more with mismanagement."If you were being paid £660,000 you’d find it hard to concentrate at work  | |||
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"i hope that everyone gets paid as they said they wont be after today
I didn’t hear that. The MP on tell yesterday was encouraging all workers and subbies to continue as normal, and they’d get paid direct by government.
Meanwhile back in reality "There's enough houses in this country to house every homeless person they just need to be brought up to standards. The goverment could employ the workers to refurbish the houses and that would solve lots of problems not just housing and un employment but they don't. Could it be because most politicians are land on property owners and they like the rents to be high? Plus if people can't pay the rent they get housing benefit which comes from the tax payer and goes to the land lords. | |||
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"Not good, it is a mix of mismanagement and brexit. How is it brexit ? yeah personally I’m wondering how so many mangers with such big fat salaries have made such a colossal fuck up. I’m blamimg management. Yes. I reckon it is more with mismanagement.
If you were being paid £660,000 you’d find it hard to concentrate at work "That is right it would be. I would spend the time looking at holidays on the pc instead of working. | |||
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"All I can say is fucking twats thanks dosent look like I will be getting paid "Succinct and to the point and who can blame you. Are you still working though ? | |||
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"No a sub contractor ow me some much " If I was in your position (the sub contractor owing you money ) - you should still expect to be paid. | |||
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"The industry seems to be blighted. In my area alone we have lost so many companies - contractors that you’d have thought would be rock solid. News saying around 20,000 employees for Carillion. What a bleak day ahead
By the time they have taken into account the knock on effect the figure will rise to 25 or 30,000 I bet. Companies shouldn't be allowed to get so big.
Sadly the people who have made these monumentous and disastraus decisions to cause this, won’t be the ones worrying how to pay their rent / mortgages.
Through the school tie and old boy network the big wigs will soon find new employment... honour intact. They can probably afford to take their time and a short break while they wait for the phone to ring. It's always the little people that pay the price!"if it were up to me I'd bring all the big wigs to justice .too many fat cats in this country giving themselves big bonus's and for what .make the smug bastards sell their mansions and pay back every penny . if it were in Russia they'd all be sent to the salt mines and even that's too good for some | |||
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"No a sub contractor ow me some much " Sorry do you mean you are a sub contractor working directly for Carillion or you are are working for their sub contractor ? | |||
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"Sub contracts working for them " I imagine it’s difficult trying to get any sense out of anyone. Assuming your contacts in Carillion probably don’t know any more than you, may also not be getting paid and facing unemployment ... | |||
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"And the rest into them in thousands "Only thing I can say is if you owe suppliers and HMRC, make sure they are aware of the situation as soon as possible. Good communication that end will ease the burden in the short term. Never promise to pay someone if you know you can’t. Sure you know this already, wish I had something more helpful to say. | |||
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"I wonder what this means for Amey as they are part of the same umbrella company I believe. It's never good to hear of people losing jobs etc and on the face of it you would have thought carillon were OK as they had a lot of new high profile contracts. " Amey is owned by Grupo Ferrovia SA Carillion is an de-merger from the old 'Tarmac' group of companies.. | |||
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"TUPE law doesn’t cover sub contract labour. 99% of work in the construction industry is carried out sub contract, there are few in direct employment other than admin and managerial." Apparently there are 20,000 people it would apply to depending on how the contracts were re-let. I accept your point about sub-contractors. The government should also do more to ensure they get paid. Certain government departments are actually pretty good at paying within 30 days but it should be mandatory for the prime contractor to pass this on to their suppliers. 90 day payment terms are simply damaging to our economy. | |||
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"Through the school tie and old boy network the big wigs will soon find new employment... honour intact. They can probably afford to take their time and a short break while they wait for the phone to ring. It's always the little people that pay the price!if it were up to me I'd bring all the big wigs to justice .too many fat cats in this country giving themselves big bonus's and for what .make the smug bastards sell their mansions and pay back every penny . if it were in Russia they'd all be sent to the salt mines and even that's too good for some " The fat cats will never be made to pay the price for there corruption, that's why they are fat cats. As for Russian salt mines, you do know that one of the richest men in Russia is Putin ? This is a guy who until he became President of Russia was a lifelong KGB officer on not an exactly Million's wages and yet at the moment is worth in excess of £3bn even though he has never run any company, never owned any company. What he has done though on a very regular basis is just executed people and stole their assets.............no, no salt mines for the big guys in Russia. | |||
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"i had the horrible misfortune of working on one of their sites ...what a miserable place it was .. endless managers walking around telling u to put your hardhat/gloves/glassless/hi-viz/put your fone away /stop smoking.. . it was like being a school..well it was worse. Unfortunately most of the big companies are similar, it's a big arse covering exercise-the fines for accidents at work are massive and companies don't wanna risk a loss of reputation. Plus it gives the junior managers something to do. " | |||
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"i had the horrible misfortune of working on one of their sites ...what a miserable place it was .. endless managers walking around telling u to put your hardhat/gloves/glassless/hi-viz/put your fone away /stop smoking.. . it was like being a school..well it was worse. anyway.. so what ... the work will still be there .. just means it'll go to another firm ..they seemed to get everything going as a matter of routine anyway .. " I think Health & Safety is here to stay. Oh and you forgot your steel toecaps  | |||
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"i had the horrible misfortune of working on one of their sites ...what a miserable place it was .. endless managers walking around telling u to put your hardhat/gloves/glassless/hi-viz/put your fone away /stop smoking.. . it was like being a school..well it was worse. Unfortunately most of the big companies are similar, it's a big arse covering exercise-the fines for accidents at work are massive and companies don't wanna risk a loss of reputation. Plus it gives the junior managers something to do. " Also.... Deaths of employees cause a fuck load of paperwork..... Nothing to do with keeping people safe. If people just did what they were supposed to do and wear ppe etc then managers wouldn't need to keep telling then the basics of their industry. Health and safety has not caused this terribly situation. Maybe they should look at the fact they are paying some guy for the most of this year when he left last year. On top of a massive bonus payout. | |||
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"To answer a couple of points regarding Carillon. A massive order book with huge contracts is no indicator that a company will be profitable .... yes , the company has a huge turnover ( vanity) ,,,, but in essence the profits ( sanity ) are dire . This would indicate poor management at ALL levels right through to the on site management . Poor quality control and more importantly work not completed on time thus incurring huge penalty clauses and fines . I’d also hazard a guess that they have been forward trading , buying work or in layman’s terms robbing Peter to pay Paul ... Rest assured though that the fat cat bosses who implement policies will not be out of pocket " Yes I think when companies get too big, they become monsters out of control. Still inexcusable though. You shouldn’t be taking 24.5 times the national average salary to produce this crock of shit. | |||
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"Through the school tie and old boy network the big wigs will soon find new employment... honour intact. They can probably afford to take their time and a short break while they wait for the phone to ring. It's always the little people that pay the price!if it were up to me I'd bring all the big wigs to justice .too many fat cats in this country giving themselves big bonus's and for what .make the smug bastards sell their mansions and pay back every penny . if it were in Russia they'd all be sent to the salt mines and even that's too good for some The fat cats will never be made to pay the price for there corruption, that's why they are fat cats. As for Russian salt mines, you do know that one of the richest men in Russia is Putin ? This is a guy who until he became President of Russia was a lifelong KGB officer on not an exactly Million's wages and yet at the moment is worth in excess of £3bn even though he has never run any company, never owned any company. What he has done though on a very regular basis is just executed people and stole their assets.............no, no salt mines for the big guys in Russia." But does he have a duck house?  | |||
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"Through the school tie and old boy network the big wigs will soon find new employment... honour intact. They can probably afford to take their time and a short break while they wait for the phone to ring. It's always the little people that pay the price!if it were up to me I'd bring all the big wigs to justice .too many fat cats in this country giving themselves big bonus's and for what .make the smug bastards sell their mansions and pay back every penny . if it were in Russia they'd all be sent to the salt mines and even that's too good for some The fat cats will never be made to pay the price for there corruption, that's why they are fat cats. As for Russian salt mines, you do know that one of the richest men in Russia is Putin ? This is a guy who until he became President of Russia was a lifelong KGB officer on not an exactly Million's wages and yet at the moment is worth in excess of £3bn even though he has never run any company, never owned any company. What he has done though on a very regular basis is just executed people and stole their assets.............no, no salt mines for the big guys in Russia. But does he have a duck house? "I think he had a moat | |||
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"To answer a couple of points regarding Carillon. A massive order book with huge contracts is no indicator that a company will be profitable .... yes , the company has a huge turnover ( vanity) ,,,, but in essence the profits ( sanity ) are dire . This would indicate poor management at ALL levels right through to the on site management . Poor quality control and more importantly work not completed on time thus incurring huge penalty clauses and fines . I’d also hazard a guess that they have been forward trading , buying work or in layman’s terms robbing Peter to pay Paul ... Rest assured though that the fat cat bosses who implement policies will not be out of pocket Yes I think when companies get too big, they become monsters out of control. Still inexcusable though. You shouldn’t be taking 24.5 times the national average salary to produce this crock of shit. " People keep saying "too big to fail" - for goodness sake it wasn't even remotely close to even being in the 500 largest companies in the world. It's about a third the size of #500 on the list. Size wasn't its problem. | |||
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"To answer a couple of points regarding Carillon. A massive order book with huge contracts is no indicator that a company will be profitable .... yes , the company has a huge turnover ( vanity) ,,,, but in essence the profits ( sanity ) are dire . This would indicate poor management at ALL levels right through to the on site management . Poor quality control and more importantly work not completed on time thus incurring huge penalty clauses and fines . I’d also hazard a guess that they have been forward trading , buying work or in layman’s terms robbing Peter to pay Paul ... Rest assured though that the fat cat bosses who implement policies will not be out of pocket Yes I think when companies get too big, they become monsters out of control. Still inexcusable though. You shouldn’t be taking 24.5 times the national average salary to produce this crock of shit. " Totally agree on the fat cat salaries . But in essence the type of work Carillon undertakes is all based on very tight margins with little or no scope for error . Are they a BIG company ,, I’d say look at the top 100 list . One aspect a lot of people are forgetting on here is the area of expertise (and I use that term loosely ) is construction . A volatile industry littered with pitfalls and an infinite number of variables . Hence why proactive management is crucial . Something this company has obviously lacked | |||
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"Microsoft !! " I have Outlook issues, I’m not taking that one 
I’ll say Barclays | |||
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Least you didn’t say Bradford and Bingley | |||
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"Outlook problems !! Who hasn’t ?
Least you didn’t say Bradford and Bingley "Stop laughing at me  yes Outlook issues.
Well I wasn’t going to say BT | |||
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"Genuine question here. Name one big, successful company or organisation. Yes that is subjective of course, but I’m struggling a bit "McDonalds, Wall-Mart, Coke, Google, Exxon Mobile, Samsung, Verizon, JP Morgan... | |||
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"Genuine question here. Name one big, successful company or organisation. Yes that is subjective of course, but I’m struggling a bit
McDonalds, Wall-Mart, Coke, Google, Exxon Mobile, Samsung, Verizon, JP Morgan..."Yes but apart from them . Feck you had me at the first one. Never a bad cheeseburger
However I will say, without me googling, I don’t think any are British ? I missed that out of my question! | |||
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"Outlook problems !! Who hasn’t ?
Least you didn’t say Bradford and Bingley
Stop laughing at me yes Outlook issues.
Well I wasn’t going to say BT "Whose BT? ?? . I’m from Rochdale , we still have baked beans tins and a very long piece of string for communication | |||
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"Genuine question here. Name one big, successful company or organisation. Yes that is subjective of course, but I’m struggling a bit
McDonalds, Wall-Mart, Coke, Google, Exxon Mobile, Samsung, Verizon, JP Morgan...
Yes but apart from them . Feck you had me at the first one. Never a bad cheeseburger
However I will say, without me googling, I don’t think any are British ? I missed that out of my question!"Not many because British workers are a pain in the ass and British work culture is a toxic combination of high wages, low productivity and entitlement. But the best examples would be Rolls-Royce, Babcock, HSBC, Shell, GSK, Vodafone. | |||
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"Genuine question here. Name one big, successful company or organisation. Yes that is subjective of course, but I’m struggling a bit
McDonalds, Wall-Mart, Coke, Google, Exxon Mobile, Samsung, Verizon, JP Morgan...
Yes but apart from them . Feck you had me at the first one. Never a bad cheeseburger
However I will say, without me googling, I don’t think any are British ? I missed that out of my question!
Not many because British workers are a pain in the ass and British work culture is a toxic combination of high wages, low productivity and entitlement. But the best examples would be Rolls-Royce, Babcock, HSBC, Shell, GSK, Vodafone. "I resemble that remark | |||
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"Genuine question here. Name one big, successful company or organisation. Yes that is subjective of course, but I’m struggling a bit "JCB- still one of the biggest family owned business in the uk | |||
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"Genuine question here. Name one big, successful company or organisation. Yes that is subjective of course, but I’m struggling a bit
JCB- still one of the biggest family owned business in the uk "Aw really - I wanted to do an apprenticeship with them. Cool | |||
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"Genuine question here. Name one big, successful company or organisation. Yes that is subjective of course, but I’m struggling a bit
JCB- still one of the biggest family owned business in the uk
Aw really - I wanted to do an apprenticeship with them. Cool "I had to do some digging for that info .. | |||
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"Genuine question here. Name one big, successful company or organisation. Yes that is subjective of course, but I’m struggling a bit
McDonalds, Wall-Mart, Coke, Google, Exxon Mobile, Samsung, Verizon, JP Morgan...
Yes but apart from them . Feck you had me at the first one. Never a bad cheeseburger
However I will say, without me googling, I don’t think any are British ? I missed that out of my question!
Not many because British workers are a pain in the ass and British work culture is a toxic combination of high wages, low productivity and entitlement. But the best examples would be Rolls-Royce, Babcock, HSBC, Shell, GSK, Vodafone.
I resemble that remark "Resemble or resent? If you read through the thread you see nice examples indicative of British industrial relations being stuck in the 1970's with the 'them and us' mentality. Other countries have found better ways to aligning the interests of managers and workers. | |||
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"Genuine question here. Name one big, successful company or organisation. Yes that is subjective of course, but I’m struggling a bit
McDonalds, Wall-Mart, Coke, Google, Exxon Mobile, Samsung, Verizon, JP Morgan...
Yes but apart from them . Feck you had me at the first one. Never a bad cheeseburger
However I will say, without me googling, I don’t think any are British ? I missed that out of my question!
Not many because British workers are a pain in the ass and British work culture is a toxic combination of high wages, low productivity and entitlement. But the best examples would be Rolls-Royce, Babcock, HSBC, Shell, GSK, Vodafone.
I resemble that remark
Resemble or resent? If you read through the thread you see nice examples indicative of British industrial relations being stuck in the 1970's with the 'them and us' mentality. Other countries have found better ways to aligning the interests of managers and workers. "Resemble okay I’m busted | |||
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"Genuine question here. Name one big, successful company or organisation. Yes that is subjective of course, but I’m struggling a bit
McDonalds, Wall-Mart, Coke, Google, Exxon Mobile, Samsung, Verizon, JP Morgan...
Yes but apart from them . Feck you had me at the first one. Never a bad cheeseburger
However I will say, without me googling, I don’t think any are British ? I missed that out of my question!
Not many because British workers are a pain in the ass and British work culture is a toxic combination of high wages, low productivity and entitlement. But the best examples would be Rolls-Royce, Babcock, HSBC, Shell, GSK, Vodafone.
I resemble that remark
Resemble or resent? If you read through the thread you see nice examples indicative of British industrial relations being stuck in the 1970's with the 'them and us' mentality. Other countries have found better ways to aligning the interests of managers and workers. "Haha yes. On a serious note I understand what you’re saying. I did an apprenticeship starting on the shop floor so I’ve seen it both sides. I’ve seen factories abroad in Belgium, Germany, USA, Denmark,Italy and Australia, but as a visitor. It would be unfair to comment as a visitor. I’d guess the Dutch, Belgiums and Ozzie’s cracked the divide better, but that’s just a guess. | |||
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"Genuine question here. Name one big, successful company or organisation. Yes that is subjective of course, but I’m struggling a bit
McDonalds, Wall-Mart, Coke, Google, Exxon Mobile, Samsung, Verizon, JP Morgan...
Yes but apart from them . Feck you had me at the first one. Never a bad cheeseburger
However I will say, without me googling, I don’t think any are British ? I missed that out of my question!
Not many because British workers are a pain in the ass and British work culture is a toxic combination of high wages, low productivity and entitlement. But the best examples would be Rolls-Royce, Babcock, HSBC, Shell, GSK, Vodafone.
I resemble that remark
Resemble or resent? If you read through the thread you see nice examples indicative of British industrial relations being stuck in the 1970's with the 'them and us' mentality. Other countries have found better ways to aligning the interests of managers and workers.
Haha yes. On a serious note I understand what you’re saying. I did an apprenticeship starting on the shop floor so I’ve seen it both sides.
I’ve seen factories abroad in Belgium, Germany, USA, Denmark,Italy and Australia, but as a visitor. It would be unfair to comment as a visitor. I’d guess the Dutch, Belgiums and Ozzie’s cracked the divide better, but that’s just a guess."In one of my degree case studies there was something like a British car factory that had ~150 different job roles / minimal cross-training. Every attempt by management to make it more efficient was met with demands for higher wages / refusal to lay anyone off. Eventually it went bust and a Japanese company bought it and imposed their own terms, ~14 different job roles on the floor, no pay rises and there will be redundancies - accept it or we asset strip the factory and flip you the bird. They took it. Foreign management could always achieve, through hardball, what we couldn't through negotiation. Hence why the vast majority of decent British companies are foreign owned. I believe there's a car factory in the north east that's the most efficient in europe now. Foreign owned of course. | |||
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"Genuine question here. Name one big, successful company or organisation. Yes that is subjective of course, but I’m struggling a bit
McDonalds, Wall-Mart, Coke, Google, Exxon Mobile, Samsung, Verizon, JP Morgan...
Yes but apart from them . Feck you had me at the first one. Never a bad cheeseburger
However I will say, without me googling, I don’t think any are British ? I missed that out of my question!
Not many because British workers are a pain in the ass and British work culture is a toxic combination of high wages, low productivity and entitlement. But the best examples would be Rolls-Royce, Babcock, HSBC, Shell, GSK, Vodafone.
I resemble that remark
Resemble or resent? If you read through the thread you see nice examples indicative of British industrial relations being stuck in the 1970's with the 'them and us' mentality. Other countries have found better ways to aligning the interests of managers and workers.
Haha yes. On a serious note I understand what you’re saying. I did an apprenticeship starting on the shop floor so I’ve seen it both sides.
I’ve seen factories abroad in Belgium, Germany, USA, Denmark,Italy and Australia, but as a visitor. It would be unfair to comment as a visitor. I’d guess the Dutch, Belgiums and Ozzie’s cracked the divide better, but that’s just a guess.
In one of my degree case studies there was something like a British car factory that had ~150 different job roles / minimal cross-training. Every attempt by management to make it more efficient was met with demands for higher wages / refusal to lay anyone off. Eventually it went bust and a Japanese company bought it and imposed their own terms, ~14 different job roles on the floor, no pay rises and there will be redundancies - accept it or we asset strip the factory and flip you the bird. They took it.
Foreign management could always achieve, through hardball, what we couldn't through negotiation. Hence why the vast majority of decent British companies are foreign owned. I believe there's a car factory in the north east that's the most efficient in europe now. Foreign owned of course. "Hmmm depressing but I hear you. In my first few years in construction I visited two factories in the UK. One British owned - tired looking and desolate. The other Japanese owned. They were worlds apart, the latter being very impressive. | |||
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"There were up to 5 layers of sub contractors!!! So each layer would be claiming of the contractor. What a mess." As a previous employee of a few £1-10million turnover subbies, I’m not surprised. Each layer is claiming of the next layer up. It’s possible some of those middle companies can and will pay despite losing out themselves. Yes messy and no doubt very drawn out. Meanwhile material suppliers and HMRC wont wait so long. | |||
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"There were up to 5 layers of sub contractors!!! So each layer would be claiming of the contractor. What a mess. As a previous employee of a few £1-10million turnover subbies, I’m not surprised. Each layer is claiming of the next layer up. It’s possible some of those middle companies can and will pay despite losing out themselves. Yes messy and no doubt very drawn out. Meanwhile material suppliers and HMRC wont wait so long. " HMCR will be the preferential creditor, he's owed £75m. So any moneys raised will go there first. They reckon normal creditors will get 1p in the pound. | |||
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"I wonder what this means for Amey as they are part of the same umbrella company I believe. It's never good to hear of people losing jobs etc and on the face of it you would have thought carillon were OK as they had a lot of new high profile contracts. " Missed managed from the word go were borrowing money in its second year Directors who were never fit for purpose milking it from day one shall i go on and on... | |||
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"There were up to 5 layers of sub contractors!!! So each layer would be claiming of the contractor. What a mess. As a previous employee of a few £1-10million turnover subbies, I’m not surprised. Each layer is claiming of the next layer up. It’s possible some of those middle companies can and will pay despite losing out themselves. Yes messy and no doubt very drawn out. Meanwhile material suppliers and HMRC wont wait so long. HMCR will be the preferential creditor, he's owed £75m. So any moneys raised will go there first. They reckon normal creditors will get 1p in the pound." That’s true. I think nearing end of thread now. Offering my best sentiments to anyone affected and please keep in touch anyone thats messaged me privately | |||
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