FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > so..... anyone read the guardian article today?
so..... anyone read the guardian article today?
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"interesting read..... racism in the bedroom...... https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/jan/13/black-woman-always-fetishised-racism-in-bedroom" I didn't find it an interesting read as the writer clearly went to the event with a pre-formed view and stuck to it. There was little or nothing balanced about the article. I accept that she was making a point about the long negative history of racial sexual stereotyping but she seemed not to understand that people at times just want to fuck and their points of desire, fantasy play to that. Hence, I don't have an issue with choice based on racial preference etc or those who advertise themselves using words like "bbc" etc. Oh and her article then went on to the difficulties some black women have in the dating world. While I accept the link it may have been better as two separate pieces. All in all, not a helpful work. Prefer actual swingers to write about swingers-not outsiders or armchair wannabes!  | |||
"interesting read..... racism in the bedroom...... https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/jan/13/black-woman-always-fetishised-racism-in-bedroom I didn't find it an interesting read as the writer clearly went to the event with a pre-formed view and stuck to it. There was little or nothing balanced about the article. I accept that she was making a point about the long negative history of racial sexual stereotyping but she seemed not to understand that people at times just want to fuck and their points of desire, fantasy play to that. Hence, I don't have an issue with choice based on racial preference etc or those who advertise themselves using words like "bbc" etc. Oh and her article then went on to the difficulties some black women have in the dating world. While I accept the link it may have been better as two separate pieces. All in all, not a helpful work. Prefer actual swingers to write about swingers-not outsiders or armchair wannabes! " | |||
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"Just to let you all know that we have just posted our statement in relation to the article https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/clubs/718973 " Thanks for signposting this. However, I have to say, I don't think it could have been better. The thing with most of the responses against the article, is that they simply state, they disagree with her and it's not racism. It's interesting that the ever insightful Fabio found it both interesting and troubling. You say that Black Man's Fan Club has nothing to do with skin colour? To what does the black refer then? It wasn't brilliant article. I didn't read the whole thing. And it was obvious she was against swinging from the start. But it explored an interesting issue. And are you only going to respond within the community? How about finding a journalist who is well disposed to the matter and asking for a good response? One was of addressing it, I think, would be to say that even if these desires come out of bad racism, that doesn't mean they should be repressed. Esther Perel writes about this in relation to powerful women being submissive in the bedroom. (Maybe she even comments on this very theme - I can't remember.) Ok, got to go. | |||
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"i think it is an interesting article in that it was not the writers opinion that caught my eye... it was the comment of the black swinging couple she talked to, and how they were approached by white couples that determined if it was an immediate no..... the difference between being seen for them and being seen as a fetish and as much as BMFC statement is one that i for the most part accept and agree, I don't think they do help themselves at the best of times because even in there own advertising (and it was mentioned in the article) they talk about the "extras" black men bring....... which "extras" would that be? the reason i was so conflicted saturday is that BMFC came to club F... I was adament about not going because i had done black/white parties in the past when i was not so in the scene and not as wise in my years (people may say i have finally turned 12 in man years now) saw things i didn't like, felt like a huge fetish and swore never to do it again... so it was a case of my favourite night at a club where i feel my most comfortable against going to an event where i would feel my least and i went, and i gave it a go and mixed with some lovely people, but the feeling of feeling like a fetish never went away......... so.... older and bolder, would i do that again, never say never, but the answer is more likely to be no, rather than yes....." I agree with the bit where you mentioned the ad. Why put the bit about extra in there? It's almost like using it when it suits then complaining after. As for how you feel, your own experience has maybe put doubts in your head which could take time to go away. Just be yourself, you'll probably get to see for yourself those who make it a fetish and you can steer clear. P  | |||
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" I agree with the bit where you mentioned the ad. Why put the bit about extra in there? It's almost like using it when it suits then complaining after. As for how you feel, your own experience has maybe put doubts in your head which could take time to go away. Just be yourself, you'll probably get to see for yourself those who make it a fetish and you can steer clear. P "i think i had a conflicted look on my face, and people did comment that i wasn't myself and if everything was ok (bless them... the staff and the people who go are some of the best people) and i did my best to explain where my head was at.... but in the end i did end up leaving early... and i don't blame the club or BMFC in the slightest....... | |||
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"Just to let you all know that we have just posted our statement in relation to the article https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/clubs/718973 Thanks for signposting this. However, I have to say, I don't think it could have been better. The thing with most of the responses against the article, is that they simply state, they disagree with her and it's not racism. It's interesting that the ever insightful Fabio found it both interesting and troubling. You say that Black Man's Fan Club has nothing to do with skin colour? To what does the black refer then? It wasn't brilliant article. I didn't read the whole thing. And it was obvious she was against swinging from the start. But it explored an interesting issue. And are you only going to respond within the community? How about finding a journalist who is well disposed to the matter and asking for a good response? One was of addressing it, I think, would be to say that even if these desires come out of bad racism, that doesn't mean they should be repressed. Esther Perel writes about this in relation to powerful women being submissive in the bedroom. (Maybe she even comments on this very theme - I can't remember.) Ok, got to go." Well put ! | |||
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"I've not read the article, but I have always felt uncomfortable with being someone's fantasy just because of the colour of my skin, I'm a person, and there are so many more exciting things about me than what you see on the surface, I don't want to be singled out and have people say things to me that are meant as complimentary, but just show the lack of understanding. I'm a man, a person, not a black bull, not a BBC, a man, and I think I'm owed the courtesy of being thought of as such, long gone are the days when I thought as women as "pussy" or "a bit of skirt" I grew up and realised that it's bloody insulting to par another person down to body parts." | |||
"Just to let you all know that we have just posted our statement in relation to the article https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/clubs/718973 Thanks for signposting this. However, I have to say, I don't think it could have been better. The thing with most of the responses against the article, is that they simply state, they disagree with her and it's not racism. It's interesting that the ever insightful Fabio found it both interesting and troubling. You say that Black Man's Fan Club has nothing to do with skin colour? To what does the black refer then? It wasn't brilliant article. I didn't read the whole thing. And it was obvious she was against swinging from the start. But it explored an interesting issue. And are you only going to respond within the community? How about finding a journalist who is well disposed to the matter and asking for a good response? One was of addressing it, I think, would be to say that even if these desires come out of bad racism, that doesn't mean they should be repressed. Esther Perel writes about this in relation to powerful women being submissive in the bedroom. (Maybe she even comments on this very theme - I can't remember.) Ok, got to go. Well put !"Why thank you. (Just in case my typos weren't obvious - I do think it could have been better.) | |||
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"I've not read the article, but I have always felt uncomfortable with being someone's fantasy just because of the colour of my skin, I'm a person, and there are so many more exciting things about me than what you see on the surface, I don't want to be singled out and have people say things to me that are meant as complimentary, but just show the lack of understanding. I'm a man, a person, not a black bull, not a BBC, a man, and I think I'm owed the courtesy of being thought of as such, long gone are the days when I thought as women as "pussy" or "a bit of skirt" I grew up and realised that it's bloody insulting to par another person down to body parts." Agreed, but the amount of threads where lots of other black guys are happy to be seen as the above is surprising. For us it’s a useful filter. | |||
"I saw an excellent play at the Royal Court theatre a few years ago called "Sugar Mummies," which raised similar issues - about the white women who go to the Caribbean specifically for sex with black men, exploring the underlying racist attitudes etc. Gave me pause, as I have been to the Caribbean several times, not specifically for sex with local men, but it certainly happened...it was definitely thought-provoking, as was the Guardian article. Agree with the points made about fetishism. I find black guys attractive but like white guys too and would shy away from fetishising anyone as I dislike being treated that way myself, e.g. being classed as a MILF, cougar or BBW; just something to tick off someone's bucket list. Soulless and dehumanising. That said I love the BMFC events and will continue to support them, always well-run with a great mix of people. Seems strange to me that the author would choose to include this in her article, as my experience of these nights has been overwhelmingly positive, inclusive and fun with no sinister underside." I have the play at home and have read it. Didn't enjoy the style of it and hope you found it to be a good play. Yet the topic was interesting. I think sex, sexuality and race is a wide area to discuss. But it helps to be secure in your cultural identity so if you want to, you can have a whole different sexual personality where you can explore whatever you want. By the way, thanks everyone for the pleasant and thoughtful tone of the talk so far, it makes a difference to the usual heat around race on here. | |||
"I saw an excellent play at the Royal Court theatre a few years ago called "Sugar Mummies," which raised similar issues - about the white women who go to the Caribbean specifically for sex with black men, exploring the underlying racist attitudes etc. Gave me pause, as I have been to the Caribbean several times, not specifically for sex with local men, but it certainly happened...it was definitely thought-provoking, as was the Guardian article. Agree with the points made about fetishism. I find black guys attractive but like white guys too and would shy away from fetishising anyone as I dislike being treated that way myself, e.g. being classed as a MILF, cougar or BBW; just something to tick off someone's bucket list. Soulless and dehumanising. That said I love the BMFC events and will continue to support them, always well-run with a great mix of people. Seems strange to me that the author would choose to include this in her article, as my experience of these nights has been overwhelmingly positive, inclusive and fun with no sinister underside. I have the play at home and have read it. Didn't enjoy the style of it and hope you found it to be a good play. Yet the topic was interesting. I think sex, sexuality and race is a wide area to discuss. But it helps to be secure in your cultural identity so if you want to, you can have a whole different sexual personality where you can explore whatever you want. By the way, thanks everyone for the pleasant and thoughtful tone of the talk so far, it makes a difference to the usual heat around race on here. " I found the play interesting because of the many recognisable scenarios which brought to light an aspect of Caribbean tourism to a wider audience. It was very well directed/acted. Agree it's good to have a civilised discussion on here. | |||
"I saw an excellent play at the Royal Court theatre a few years ago called "Sugar Mummies," which raised similar issues - about the white women who go to the Caribbean specifically for sex with black men, exploring the underlying racist attitudes etc. Gave me pause, as I have been to the Caribbean several times, not specifically for sex with local men, but it certainly happened...it was definitely thought-provoking, as was the Guardian article. Agree with the points made about fetishism. I find black guys attractive but like white guys too and would shy away from fetishising anyone as I dislike being treated that way myself, e.g. being classed as a MILF, cougar or BBW; just something to tick off someone's bucket list. Soulless and dehumanising. That said I love the BMFC events and will continue to support them, always well-run with a great mix of people. Seems strange to me that the author would choose to include this in her article, as my experience of these nights has been overwhelmingly positive, inclusive and fun with no sinister underside. I have the play at home and have read it. Didn't enjoy the style of it and hope you found it to be a good play. Yet the topic was interesting. I think sex, sexuality and race is a wide area to discuss. But it helps to be secure in your cultural identity so if you want to, you can have a whole different sexual personality where you can explore whatever you want. By the way, thanks everyone for the pleasant and thoughtful tone of the talk so far, it makes a difference to the usual heat around race on here. I found the play interesting because of the many recognisable scenarios which brought to light an aspect of Caribbean tourism to a wider audience. It was very well directed/acted. Agree it's good to have a civilised discussion on here. " Haven't say I've either read or seen that play. But what did people think if Michel Houellebecq's Platform? About a guy getting into the business of sex tourism, first focusing on men, then more on women wanting black men. I didn't like it at all, but many people seem to. If I recall, from about eight years ago, he made getting into the business seem too easy, for a start. And I didn't quite believe his portrayal of the women flocking to his holidays. Maybe also I wasn't comfortable with his portrayal of black guys exactly the way this Guardian article is critical of. But now, being just slightly more acquainted with this scene, maybe I'd read it differently. But I doubt it - I just think it wasn't a good portrayal. | |||
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"Holy moly....its as easy as understanding ABC....firstly its not Racist.....it would be if they refused entry to non blacks. And if this is racist then where does the buck stop. Its just a place where people who like black guys know they will find one for there pleasure. Hos the *uck can a story like this be published...that journalist should work for the sun." Hos should be how | |||
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"Quote: "This is what really unsettles me about the Black Man’s Fan Club. Not just the fact that black men’s self-esteem could be so low that this [hypersexual black myth] would be a welcome boost, but the fact that everyone in Arousals is, one way or another, unquestioningly complicit in a set of beliefs that have ancient and horrible roots." The author seems to be making an awful lot of assumptions here" | |||
"I've not read the article, but I have always felt uncomfortable with being someone's fantasy just because of the colour of my skin, I'm a person, and there are so many more exciting things about me than what you see on the surface, I don't want to be singled out and have people say things to me that are meant as complimentary, but just show the lack of understanding. I'm a man, a person, not a black bull, not a BBC, a man, and I think I'm owed the courtesy of being thought of as such, long gone are the days when I thought as women as "pussy" or "a bit of skirt" I grew up and realised that it's bloody insulting to par another person down to body parts." . Very well said, it's human nature to grab onto positive stereotypes, worse still we have a habit of living up to the negative ones as well. I'm not sure how you instill higher expectations in people but by golly the world needs it. | |||
"I saw an excellent play at the Royal Court theatre a few years ago called "Sugar Mummies," which raised similar issues - about the white women who go to the Caribbean specifically for sex with black men, exploring the underlying racist attitudes etc. Gave me pause, as I have been to the Caribbean several times, not specifically for sex with local men, but it certainly happened...it was definitely thought-provoking, as was the Guardian article. Agree with the points made about fetishism. I find black guys attractive but like white guys too and would shy away from fetishising anyone as I dislike being treated that way myself, e.g. being classed as a MILF, cougar or BBW; just something to tick off someone's bucket list. Soulless and dehumanising. That said I love the BMFC events and will continue to support them, always well-run with a great mix of people. Seems strange to me that the author would choose to include this in her article, as my experience of these nights has been overwhelmingly positive, inclusive and fun with no sinister underside. I have the play at home and have read it. Didn't enjoy the style of it and hope you found it to be a good play. Yet the topic was interesting. I think sex, sexuality and race is a wide area to discuss. But it helps to be secure in your cultural identity so if you want to, you can have a whole different sexual personality where you can explore whatever you want. By the way, thanks everyone for the pleasant and thoughtful tone of the talk so far, it makes a difference to the usual heat around race on here. I found the play interesting because of the many recognisable scenarios which brought to light an aspect of Caribbean tourism to a wider audience. It was very well directed/acted. Agree it's good to have a civilised discussion on here. Haven't say I've either read or seen that play. But what did people think if Michel Houellebecq's Platform? About a guy getting into the business of sex tourism, first focusing on men, then more on women wanting black men. I didn't like it at all, but many people seem to. If I recall, from about eight years ago, he made getting into the business seem too easy, for a start. And I didn't quite believe his portrayal of the women flocking to his holidays. Maybe also I wasn't comfortable with his portrayal of black guys exactly the way this Guardian article is critical of. But now, being just slightly more acquainted with this scene, maybe I'd read it differently. But I doubt it - I just think it wasn't a good portrayal. " I have read a number of his books and he is a complicated writer, to say the least. I don't remember him as being controversial for its own sake, but there, from my memory, is a sense of him using his talent to paint a far-out story to make his point. In short, Michel Houellebecq is worth reading, though I don't agree with much of his views (if they are his view), but I love his courage in writing them. | |||
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"I've not read the article, but I have always felt uncomfortable with being someone's fantasy just because of the colour of my skin, I'm a person, and there are so many more exciting things about me than what you see on the surface, I don't want to be singled out and have people say things to me that are meant as complimentary, but just show the lack of understanding. I'm a man, a person, not a black bull, not a BBC, a man, and I think I'm owed the courtesy of being thought of as such, long gone are the days when I thought as women as "pussy" or "a bit of skirt" I grew up and realised that it's bloody insulting to par another person down to body parts. " There are, if you look, Female profiles on here that refer to men in general as "cock". I feel the same about those. If they just want a cock, synthetic ones are available. | |||
"I saw an excellent play at the Royal Court theatre a few years ago called "Sugar Mummies," which raised similar issues - about the white women who go to the Caribbean specifically for sex with black men, exploring the underlying racist attitudes etc. Gave me pause, as I have been to the Caribbean several times, not specifically for sex with local men, but it certainly happened...it was definitely thought-provoking, as was the Guardian article. Agree with the points made about fetishism. I find black guys attractive but like white guys too and would shy away from fetishising anyone as I dislike being treated that way myself, e.g. being classed as a MILF, cougar or BBW; just something to tick off someone's bucket list. Soulless and dehumanising. That said I love the BMFC events and will continue to support them, always well-run with a great mix of people. Seems strange to me that the author would choose to include this in her article, as my experience of these nights has been overwhelmingly positive, inclusive and fun with no sinister underside. I have the play at home and have read it. Didn't enjoy the style of it and hope you found it to be a good play. Yet the topic was interesting. I think sex, sexuality and race is a wide area to discuss. But it helps to be secure in your cultural identity so if you want to, you can have a whole different sexual personality where you can explore whatever you want. By the way, thanks everyone for the pleasant and thoughtful tone of the talk so far, it makes a difference to the usual heat around race on here. I found the play interesting because of the many recognisable scenarios which brought to light an aspect of Caribbean tourism to a wider audience. It was very well directed/acted. Agree it's good to have a civilised discussion on here. Haven't say I've either read or seen that play. But what did people think if Michel Houellebecq's Platform? About a guy getting into the business of sex tourism, first focusing on men, then more on women wanting black men. I didn't like it at all, but many people seem to. If I recall, from about eight years ago, he made getting into the business seem too easy, for a start. And I didn't quite believe his portrayal of the women flocking to his holidays. Maybe also I wasn't comfortable with his portrayal of black guys exactly the way this Guardian article is critical of. But now, being just slightly more acquainted with this scene, maybe I'd read it differently. But I doubt it - I just think it wasn't a good portrayal. I have read a number of his books and he is a complicated writer, to say the least. I don't remember him as being controversial for its own sake, but there, from my memory, is a sense of him using his talent to paint a far-out story to make his point. In short, Michel Houellebecq is worth reading, though I don't agree with much of his views (if they are his view), but I love his courage in writing them." Thanks for your thought. You may be right; perhaps I'll read some more. | |||
