FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > The electric car problem....
The electric car problem....
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Forum items love a challenge....so put your mind to this one folks.
At some point in the future (15-20-25 years?) The internal combustion engine will be a thing of the past....cars and other vehicles will be all electric.... but!!!! Currently we are struggling to keep our national grid fed with power..... Where will all this electricity come from?
Over to you guys. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/25/new-diesel-petrol-cars-banned-uk-roads-2040-government-unveils/amp/
It's already been announced. Fuel powered cars are banned from being dold from 2040, by which time we'll have 10 new power stations built |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/25/new-diesel-petrol-cars-banned-uk-roads-2040-government-unveils/amp/
It's already been announced. Fuel powered cars are banned from being dold from 2040, by which time we'll have 10 new power stations built"
Not a hope in hell we'll have 10 new power stations by 2040. A good sized station 3Gw + takes 10 years to build. Add the fact that new stations are only replacing those that have been decommissioned the total grid output won't change a great deal. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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End of the internal combustion engine but what will our government do about that lost petrol tax revenue?
It's like smoking, the amount raised in taxes on cigs far out weighs the cost to the NHS, that's why successive governments haven't banned them or raised them to £50 a packet.
Sorry, bit of a cynic on this one.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Electric and hybrid cars are at best a stepping stone. Need something far better than battery power as they are simply a step backwards. I want to travel 300 miles please electric car. "That'll take you 18 hours as you'll have to charge it twice"
Hydrogen is a decent alternative if the storage can be solved |
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It's not just a matter of making a new power plant.
A lot of the lines cant handle much more power than they already do. In theory to go fully electric in a battery way, where everyone gets power from a socket.
We would need super conduction power lines, and they dont exist.
This is why hydrogen might be the preferred solution, as you can make hydrogen from natural gas, you can also make it from green energy, and you can pool it in areas easily.
I can tell you right now, every single driver in the UK getting home and clicking charge on their phone/car, turning on tv and lights all at the same time will cause rolling blackouts. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Hydrogen fuel cell is the only viable option really. Cost is the main issue at the moment, 3 cars are available in the US and China but cost 60-100k each, hardly affordable. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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On the plus side led lighting, LCD screens and mostly low wattage appliances must be using less on the national grid than it did when it was built.
So there probably is capacity to spare. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We could just use s shaving of nuclear material in a mini reactor in each car. It’ll outlast the life of the car many times over and can be transplanted into a new car each time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"On the plus side led lighting, LCD screens and mostly low wattage appliances must be using less on the national grid than it did when it was built.
So there probably is capacity to spare. "
Unfortunately not. A number of stations have been closed and the capacity has not been replaced at the same rate. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We could just use s shaving of nuclear material in a mini reactor in each car. It’ll outlast the life of the car many times over and can be transplanted into a new car each time. "
How would you turn that nuclear material into electricity though?
You'd need a small nuclear reactor along with turbines and generators too. Along with all the gubins to run it all. And you'd essentially be driving round in a nuclear warhead. Sounds good  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We could just use s shaving of nuclear material in a mini reactor in each car. It’ll outlast the life of the car many times over and can be transplanted into a new car each time. "
You'd still have to refuel it. Nuclear power stations refuel every 2-5 years. To not have to refuel it would need to be a more than a few shavings. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Electric and hybrid cars are at best a stepping stone. Need something far better than battery power as they are simply a step backwards. I want to travel 300 miles please electric car. "That'll take you 18 hours as you'll have to charge it twice"
Hydrogen is a decent alternative if the storage can be solved"
There are electric cars currently on sale that can do 600 miles on a single charge, and the capacity is ever increasing. So I don't think this will be a problem. Admittedly at present, charging takes longer than filling up with petrol/diesel, but eventually battery and charging technology will improve so much that even greater range coupled with super-fast charging will remove this problem |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Electric and hybrid cars are at best a stepping stone. Need something far better than battery power as they are simply a step backwards. I want to travel 300 miles please electric car. "That'll take you 18 hours as you'll have to charge it twice"
Hydrogen is a decent alternative if the storage can be solved
There are electric cars currently on sale that can do 600 miles on a single charge, and the capacity is ever increasing. So I don't think this will be a problem. Admittedly at present, charging takes longer than filling up with petrol/diesel, but eventually battery and charging technology will improve so much that even greater range coupled with super-fast charging will remove this problem "
Really though? As in real world tests I've seen, the claimed figures are far from achievable. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Electric and hybrid cars are at best a stepping stone. Need something far better than battery power as they are simply a step backwards. I want to travel 300 miles please electric car. "That'll take you 18 hours as you'll have to charge it twice"
Hydrogen is a decent alternative if the storage can be solved
There are electric cars currently on sale that can do 600 miles on a single charge, and the capacity is ever increasing. So I don't think this will be a problem. Admittedly at present, charging takes longer than filling up with petrol/diesel, but eventually battery and charging technology will improve so much that even greater range coupled with super-fast charging will remove this problem
Really though? As in real world tests I've seen, the claimed figures are far from achievable. "
It's like the Mpg figures quoted on cars, they're bullshit and never achievable as the tests don't replicate real world driving conditions. |
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"Forum items love a challenge....so put your mind to this one folks.
At some point in the future (15-20-25 years?) The internal combustion engine will be a thing of the past....cars and other vehicles will be all electric.... but!!!! Currently we are struggling to keep our national grid fed with power..... Where will all this electricity come from?
Over to you guys."
Read or heard that in the UK alone a further 3 nuclear power stations would be needed just to charge cars/vehicles if ALL vehicles were electric. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The answer to where the electricity comes from is two fold:
Firstly, the cost reductions in offshore wind now mean that it's the cheapest form of energy currently being generated in the UK. It's also limitless - we have a shit load of both coastline and wind, so it seems a no-brainer.
Secondly, storage technology is improving at a scary rate. There will be huge battery-like devices everywhere before long that will charge constantly when demand is lower and deliver the energy when surges occur, akin to a storage heater. National Grid already do this to a certain extent when theres a surge of people boiling their kettles during the Corrie adverts.... (FYI, I'm not joking, this is what I do for a living!) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Forum items love a challenge....so put your mind to this one folks.
At some point in the future (15-20-25 years?) The internal combustion engine will be a thing of the past....cars and other vehicles will be all electric.... but!!!! Currently we are struggling to keep our national grid fed with power..... Where will all this electricity come from?
Over to you guys."
There is a documentary on this on Netflix. It very much highlights how apart from hydrogen there isn't really any replacement fuel. We are in for a crisis. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I also think you're thinking of hybrids rather than electric. "
Nope, pure electric. The new Tesla can do 600 miles. It also does 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds... ooosh.
Admittedly, that's the top end of the market these days, but it's brand new tech. Give it 15 years and we'll all have that. |
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"The answer to where the electricity comes from is two fold:
Firstly, the cost reductions in offshore wind now mean that it's the cheapest form of energy currently being generated in the UK. It's also limitless - we have a shit load of both coastline and wind, so it seems a no-brainer.
Secondly, storage technology is improving at a scary rate. There will be huge battery-like devices everywhere before long that will charge constantly when demand is lower and deliver the energy when surges occur, akin to a storage heater. National Grid already do this to a certain extent when theres a surge of people boiling their kettles during the Corrie adverts.... (FYI, I'm not joking, this is what I do for a living!)"
This makes sense when you explain it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I also think you're thinking of hybrids rather than electric.
Nope, pure electric. The new Tesla can do 600 miles. It also does 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds... ooosh.
Admittedly, that's the top end of the market these days, but it's brand new tech. Give it 15 years and we'll all have that."
You sure that's not km? 315 miles is best range I've seen. Assuming you drive like ms daisy and and it's not cold. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Thanks to the tories selling off power stations to profiteering bastards who'll run the power stations and power lines into the ground and not invest in replacement infrastructure ,..
Yes there will be problems.
Electric cars just shift the pollution from the traffic to polluting power stations.
hydrogen would have been a better option |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The answer to where the electricity comes from is two fold:
Firstly, the cost reductions in offshore wind now mean that it's the cheapest form of energy currently being generated in the UK. It's also limitless - we have a shit load of both coastline and wind, so it seems a no-brainer.
Secondly, storage technology is improving at a scary rate. There will be huge battery-like devices everywhere before long that will charge constantly when demand is lower and deliver the energy when surges occur, akin to a storage heater. National Grid already do this to a certain extent when theres a surge of people boiling their kettles during the Corrie adverts.... (FYI, I'm not joking, this is what I do for a living!)"
I don't disagree with what you've said at all, valid points.
Few issues though. Wind energy is poor in terms of overall efficiency due to no wind or too much wind. Over a year wind turbines on average only develop 40% of the theoretical maximum output.
A conventional station produces 80%+ so we need twice as much wind capacity to match the conventional fuelled stations we are losing. That's a fuck load of turbines.
Fusion energy will be the choice in the future. Not in our lifetime but in 60-100 years it will be.
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"We could just use s shaving of nuclear material in a mini reactor in each car. It’ll outlast the life of the car many times over and can be transplanted into a new car each time. "
Yes we could, they are called "Nuclear batteries". They use a different concept to generate power to reactors.
However, they are still fairly radioactive if broken. They are used in some projects right now where they power a whole skyscraper.
They are not really suitable for having one in every car and people neglecting them and them breaking during a crash.
However there are graphene batteries in the lab that generate power for what might be ever. However it will not reach large scale production in our lives. However pace makers might have batteries that last forever in our life time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thanks to the tories selling off power stations to profiteering bastards who'll run the power stations and power lines into the ground and not invest in replacement infrastructure ,..
Yes there will be problems.
Electric cars just shift the pollution from the traffic to polluting power stations.
hydrogen would have been a better option"
But where does the hydrogen come from, I thought you needed electricity to produce it? |
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An independent university carried out a study of the cost of production of wind turbines from mining the ores required, cost of transport and production. The study concluded that if a fan ran full time for its entire working life it would still not produce enough power and energy to replicate itself. In other words. It costs more to produce a wind turbine than it will ever make in energy in its life time. |
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Solar roof tiles. Power wall storage. Fully electric vehicles. Limited national grid necessary.
Easy. Can’t be asked arguing. Give it time. This is the future.
The maths have been calculated. The footprint to power the whole of the world with 100% solar is tiny. Easily achievable with the latest technology. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thanks to the tories selling off power stations to profiteering bastards who'll run the power stations and power lines into the ground and not invest in replacement infrastructure ,..
Yes there will be problems.
Electric cars just shift the pollution from the traffic to polluting power stations.
hydrogen would have been a better option
But where does the hydrogen come from, I thought you needed electricity to produce it?"
Depends on the route used to create it. Sea water electrolysis obviously uses electricity but hydrogen from natural gas uses steam |
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"Solar roof tiles. Power wall storage. Fully electric vehicles. Limited national grid necessary.
Easy. Can’t be asked arguing. Give it time. This is the future.
The maths have been calculated. The footprint to power the whole of the world with 100% solar is tiny. Easily achievable with the latest technology. "
This. But the luddites won't get it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thanks to the tories selling off power stations to profiteering bastards who'll run the power stations and power lines into the ground and not invest in replacement infrastructure ,..
Yes there will be problems.
Electric cars just shift the pollution from the traffic to polluting power stations.
hydrogen would have been a better option
But where does the hydrogen come from, I thought you needed electricity to produce it?
Depends on the route used to create it. Sea water electrolysis obviously uses electricity but hydrogen from natural gas uses steam "
How do you make the steam? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We could just use s shaving of nuclear material in a mini reactor in each car. It’ll outlast the life of the car many times over and can be transplanted into a new car each time.
How would you turn that nuclear material into electricity though?
You'd need a small nuclear reactor along with turbines and generators too. Along with all the gubins to run it all. And you'd essentially be driving round in a nuclear warhead. Sounds good "
The radio active lump in a nuclear submarine is about the size of a grapefruit, I think. It never gets refuelled.
You could run a steam turbine with an electrical generator attached.
The whole thing could be pretty low powered as it would generate electricity 24/7 and so charge batteries when your not driving.
Cast the whole thing in concrete or something hard and light and bury sensor wires in it so it knows if someone is messing with it and informs the authorities  |
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By *iverscuMan
over a year ago
Berkshire |
No two ways about it, electric cars are the future and companies like Tesla are the new Ford, Mercedes and BMW etc. The current mass producing car manufacturers need to go electric or face being left behind. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thanks to the tories selling off power stations to profiteering bastards who'll run the power stations and power lines into the ground and not invest in replacement infrastructure ,..
Yes there will be problems.
Electric cars just shift the pollution from the traffic to polluting power stations.
hydrogen would have been a better option
But where does the hydrogen come from, I thought you needed electricity to produce it?
Depends on the route used to create it. Sea water electrolysis obviously uses electricity but hydrogen from natural gas uses steam
How do you make the steam?"
Various means.
The point I think you're getting at is there's always something causes "pollution" and unfortunately that's just the way it is. However it's plausible to Surmise that production of something on a large scale is often less "costly" in that regard.
Could utilise nuclear power until that point, fusion, wind, solar etc. To produce hydrogen quite easily.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We could just use s shaving of nuclear material in a mini reactor in each car. It’ll outlast the life of the car many times over and can be transplanted into a new car each time.
How would you turn that nuclear material into electricity though?
You'd need a small nuclear reactor along with turbines and generators too. Along with all the gubins to run it all. And you'd essentially be driving round in a nuclear warhead. Sounds good
The radio active lump in a nuclear submarine is about the size of a grapefruit, I think. It never gets refuelled.
You could run a steam turbine with an electrical generator attached.
The whole thing could be pretty low powered as it would generate electricity 24/7 and so charge batteries when your not driving.
Cast the whole thing in concrete or something hard and light and bury sensor wires in it so it knows if someone is messing with it and informs the authorities "
Considerably bigger than a grapefruit and they refuel about every 20-30 years. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We could just use s shaving of nuclear material in a mini reactor in each car. It’ll outlast the life of the car many times over and can be transplanted into a new car each time.
How would you turn that nuclear material into electricity though?
You'd need a small nuclear reactor along with turbines and generators too. Along with all the gubins to run it all. And you'd essentially be driving round in a nuclear warhead. Sounds good
The radio active lump in a nuclear submarine is about the size of a grapefruit, I think. It never gets refuelled.
You could run a steam turbine with an electrical generator attached.
The whole thing could be pretty low powered as it would generate electricity 24/7 and so charge batteries when your not driving.
Cast the whole thing in concrete or something hard and light and bury sensor wires in it so it knows if someone is messing with it and informs the authorities "
The material might be small but the reactor etc isn't. I've seen a half scale one used for testing certain sub componanats, it wasn't small, contained in a room the size of a small house.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If the whole world ran off electic cars the power companies couldn't supply the power. You would need a windfarm the size of Texas. Solar, hydro etc are not enough to replace oil. Eco fuels take more energy to produce than they supply... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We could just use s shaving of nuclear material in a mini reactor in each car. It’ll outlast the life of the car many times over and can be transplanted into a new car each time.
How would you turn that nuclear material into electricity though?
You'd need a small nuclear reactor along with turbines and generators too. Along with all the gubins to run it all. And you'd essentially be driving round in a nuclear warhead. Sounds good
The radio active lump in a nuclear submarine is about the size of a grapefruit, I think. It never gets refuelled.
You could run a steam turbine with an electrical generator attached.
The whole thing could be pretty low powered as it would generate electricity 24/7 and so charge batteries when your not driving.
Cast the whole thing in concrete or something hard and light and bury sensor wires in it so it knows if someone is messing with it and informs the authorities
The material might be small but the reactor etc isn't. I've seen a half scale one used for testing certain sub componanats, it wasn't small, contained in a room the size of a small house.
"
Bugger. I’ll have to make my next million another way.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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For those electric car fans.
What do you think about the cost, both monetary and environmentally of producing the batteries?
I recal when Nissan started producing batteries in their facility up here I was doing some work on the plant and was informed (I'd bet someone works on the line and could confirm or dispute this) that even after production and the heating and cooling cycle they go through, a huge percentage (40% rings a bell) were scrapped as they didn't work correctly. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hydrogen cell technology
It would if the power companies let it.
S"
People who come up with alternative power solutions have a habit of going missing or ending up in prison. Strange that... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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85 years ago people said the whole country would need to be covered in power stations to provide enough electricity to power a national grid that would supply every household .... by 1938 the grid was a reality |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Problem with uranium as fuel is it needs a hell of a lot of cooling. Which is why the best place to use it is in a submarine. Less easy to manage in a traffic jam on the A1M.
Batteries are important, there is a lot of work being done on them, and an awful lot of lies being told about how good they will be next year.
Those of us who live to 2040 will know the answer probably by 2045... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" They're shit. End of. They don't solve any problem.
Ha ha! That viewpoint may have been valid maybe 15 years ago."
O.k.... explain please how current electric cars have less impact on the environment and how they are better in any way than the average petrol car. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" explain please how current electric cars have less impact on the environment and how they are better in any way than the average petrol car. "
toxic emissions during travel for starters |
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" They're shit. End of. They don't solve any problem.
Ha ha! That viewpoint may have been valid maybe 15 years ago.
O.k.... explain please how current electric cars have less impact on the environment and how they are better in any way than the average petrol car. "
The batteries are made of Victoria sponge cake, can be grown organically, and last FOREVER! |
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Give it 10 years and the hybrids will become the enemy once the govermnen5 stops getting RFL revenue.
What’s the point if the emerging economies are pumping 10 times more Co2 into the atmosphere.
Have you seen the soot that pours from their lorry exhausts, let alone their factories |
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"Give it 10 years and the hybrids will become the enemy once the govermnen5 stops getting RFL revenue.
What’s the point if the emerging economies are pumping 10 times more Co2 into the atmosphere.
Have you seen the soot that pours from their lorry exhausts, let alone their factories "
Are but we know better, so it's fine.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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They're all glorified milk floats.
..."three pints please, a carton of single cream, and a dozen eggs..."
You just can't beat a proper internal combustion engine...no matter what the situation.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We could just use s shaving of nuclear material in a mini reactor in each car. It’ll outlast the life of the car many times over and can be transplanted into a new car each time.
How would you turn that nuclear material into electricity though?
You'd need a small nuclear reactor along with turbines and generators too. Along with all the gubins to run it all. And you'd essentially be driving round in a nuclear warhead. Sounds good
The radio active lump in a nuclear submarine is about the size of a grapefruit, I think. It never gets refuelled.
You could run a steam turbine with an electrical generator attached.
The whole thing could be pretty low powered as it would generate electricity 24/7 and so charge batteries when your not driving.
Cast the whole thing in concrete or something hard and light and bury sensor wires in it so it knows if someone is messing with it and informs the authorities
The material might be small but the reactor etc isn't. I've seen a half scale one used for testing certain sub componanats, it wasn't small, contained in a room the size of a small house.
"
This is what a lot of people don't understand. Even for a small steam turbine the amount of space required is unreal.
You've got the turbine, generator, condenser, boiler, reactor, all the pipework, cooling water system, protection gear. For something to power a car 112 kw or about 150hp you'd need a transit van to lug it around.
You've then got to |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thanks to the tories selling off power stations to profiteering bastards who'll run the power stations and power lines into the ground and not invest in replacement infrastructure ,..
Yes there will be problems.
Electric cars just shift the pollution from the traffic to polluting power stations.
hydrogen would have been a better option
But where does the hydrogen come from, I thought you needed electricity to produce it?"
Biomass and high temperature. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thanks to the tories selling off power stations to profiteering bastards who'll run the power stations and power lines into the ground and not invest in replacement infrastructure ,..
Yes there will be problems.
Electric cars just shift the pollution from the traffic to polluting power stations.
hydrogen would have been a better option
But where does the hydrogen come from, I thought you needed electricity to produce it?
Biomass and high temperature. "
Oh and oxidising the methane |
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Going electric won't solve any problem .all it will do is move it sideways . the var manufacturers definately have their blinkers om here . its all about money .who has given to who ,the government or the manufacturers.what happens when there's a huge mountain of these used batteries stockpiled all over .only 6% of these batteries can be recycled .more dumps all over the place .it hasn't been carefully thought out this at all |
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That's one of the reasons the Russians lost the cold war of course. The Americans let them think they'd invented a nuclear powered bomber. Imagine a bomber that could fly around the planet indefinitely..... they threw millions at it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This is what a lot of people don't understand. Even for a small steam turbine the amount of space required is unreal.
You've got the turbine, generator, condenser, boiler, reactor, all the pipework, cooling water system, protection gear. For something to power a car 112 kw or about 150hp you'd need a transit van to lug it around.
You've then got to "
what a lot of people don't understand is that a small solar panel on their garage roof will charge their vehicle enough for the milage they do ... polyphase electic distribution only came about to enable large corporations to make huge sums by pumping electricity over huge distances to miitigate the amount of power lost during the process ...the national grid is massivly inefficient and utterly outdated |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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In the future we will see a lot more distributed electricity generation. Most houses will have solar panels, which are becoming ever cheaper and less expensive (thank the Chinese for that) but the sun only shines during the day, when we are all at work and not using domestic mains supplies. The energy created by the solar cells will be stored in battery arrays. These arrays will be made from the battery’s from electric cars, recycled once they have degraded to a point they are no longer viable to drive a vehicle, but will still be plenty potent enough to run house hold lights and a flat screen tv. Also for recharging your new electric car. |
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"This is what a lot of people don't understand. Even for a small steam turbine the amount of space required is unreal.
You've got the turbine, generator, condenser, boiler, reactor, all the pipework, cooling water system, protection gear. For something to power a car 112 kw or about 150hp you'd need a transit van to lug it around.
You've then got to
what a lot of people don't understand is that a small solar panel on their garage roof will charge their vehicle enough for the milage they do ... polyphase electic distribution only came about to enable large corporations to make huge sums by pumping electricity over huge distances to miitigate the amount of power lost during the process ...the national grid is massivly inefficient and utterly outdated"
What about all those millions of people living in high rise buildings, on low incomes? They can't afford newish cars. How will they transition, and what will the charging stations look like for all these millions of people? But more importantly than all that. What will the country side look like in the countries that are being exploited for the raw materials of the trillions of batteries? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why has no-one modernised the horse and cart? 2 horses attached to a comfortable car based carriage. Job done.
You'd still have the poop problem
Nappies."
Million dollar idea in the making |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The real problem with renewable energy is not generating it, it’s generating it when we want to use it. Large scale energy storage is difficult traditionally taking the form of potential energy normally pumping a lot of water up a dirty great hill. This is pretty inefficient and takes up a lot of room |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This is what a lot of people don't understand. Even for a small steam turbine the amount of space required is unreal.
You've got the turbine, generator, condenser, boiler, reactor, all the pipework, cooling water system, protection gear. For something to power a car 112 kw or about 150hp you'd need a transit van to lug it around.
You've then got to
what a lot of people don't understand is that a small solar panel on their garage roof will charge their vehicle enough for the milage they do ... polyphase electic distribution only came about to enable large corporations to make huge sums by pumping electricity over huge distances to miitigate the amount of power lost during the process ...the national grid is massivly inefficient and utterly outdated"
For a lot of people yes, those who do town miles. For people who drive 100's of miles away day no.
Is is very outdated and inefficient but the cost of introducing modern efficient systems is astronomical so will never be done. |
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"Why has no-one modernised the horse and cart? 2 horses attached to a comfortable car based carriage. Job done.
You'd still have the poop problem
Nappies.
Million dollar idea in the making "
Bio degradable nappies that are then ploughed into fields. No more speed related death either! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This is what a lot of people don't understand. Even for a small steam turbine the amount of space required is unreal.
You've got the turbine, generator, condenser, boiler, reactor, all the pipework, cooling water system, protection gear. For something to power a car 112 kw or about 150hp you'd need a transit van to lug it around.
You've then got to
what a lot of people don't understand is that a small solar panel on their garage roof will charge their vehicle enough for the milage they do ... polyphase electic distribution only came about to enable large corporations to make huge sums by pumping electricity over huge distances to miitigate the amount of power lost during the process ...the national grid is massivly inefficient and utterly outdated
For a lot of people yes, those who do town miles. For people who drive 100's of miles away day no.
Is is very outdated and inefficient but the cost of introducing modern efficient systems is astronomical so will never be done. "
it's already arrived |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" They're shit. End of. They don't solve any problem.
Ha ha! That viewpoint may have been valid maybe 15 years ago.
O.k.... explain please how current electric cars have less impact on the environment and how they are better in any way than the average petrol car. "
Can nobody do this? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"explain please how current electric cars have less impact on the environment and how they are better in any way than the average petrol car.
Can nobody do this?"
already done ... next question |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This is what a lot of people don't understand. Even for a small steam turbine the amount of space required is unreal.
You've got the turbine, generator, condenser, boiler, reactor, all the pipework, cooling water system, protection gear. For something to power a car 112 kw or about 150hp you'd need a transit van to lug it around.
You've then got to
what a lot of people don't understand is that a small solar panel on their garage roof will charge their vehicle enough for the milage they do ... polyphase electic distribution only came about to enable large corporations to make huge sums by pumping electricity over huge distances to miitigate the amount of power lost during the process ...the national grid is massivly inefficient and utterly outdated
For a lot of people yes, those who do town miles. For people who drive 100's of miles away day no.
Is is very outdated and inefficient but the cost of introducing modern efficient systems is astronomical so will never be done.
it's already arrived"
In what way? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" explain please how current electric cars have less impact on the environment and how they are better in any way than the average petrol car.
toxic emissions during travel for starters "
Toxic emissions during travel taken in isolation.... yes. As part of the whole? I'm not convinced the benefits of that outweigh everything else. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This is what a lot of people don't understand. Even for a small steam turbine the amount of space required is unreal.
You've got the turbine, generator, condenser, boiler, reactor, all the pipework, cooling water system, protection gear. For something to power a car 112 kw or about 150hp you'd need a transit van to lug it around.
You've then got to
what a lot of people don't understand is that a small solar panel on their garage roof will charge their vehicle enough for the milage they do ... polyphase electic distribution only came about to enable large corporations to make huge sums by pumping electricity over huge distances to miitigate the amount of power lost during the process ...the national grid is massivly inefficient and utterly outdated
For a lot of people yes, those who do town miles. For people who drive 100's of miles away day no.
Is is very outdated and inefficient but the cost of introducing modern efficient systems is astronomical so will never be done.
it's already arrived
In what way?"
in the way that pelv and selv systems have been rolled out over the last 10 years and a number of homes and businesses are successfully independent of the grid for the a number years now |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This is what a lot of people don't understand. Even for a small steam turbine the amount of space required is unreal.
You've got the turbine, generator, condenser, boiler, reactor, all the pipework, cooling water system, protection gear. For something to power a car 112 kw or about 150hp you'd need a transit van to lug it around.
You've then got to
what a lot of people don't understand is that a small solar panel on their garage roof will charge their vehicle enough for the milage they do ... polyphase electic distribution only came about to enable large corporations to make huge sums by pumping electricity over huge distances to miitigate the amount of power lost during the process ...the national grid is massivly inefficient and utterly outdated
For a lot of people yes, those who do town miles. For people who drive 100's of miles away day no.
Is is very outdated and inefficient but the cost of introducing modern efficient systems is astronomical so will never be done.
it's already arrived
In what way?
in the way that pelv and selv systems have been rolled out over the last 10 years and a number of homes and businesses are successfully independent of the grid for the a number years now"
Fair enough, I wasn't aware of that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" explain please how current electric cars have less impact on the environment and how they are better in any way than the average petrol car.
toxic emissions during travel for starters
Toxic emissions during travel taken in isolation.... yes. As part of the whole? I'm not convinced the benefits of that outweigh everything else. "
All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us? |
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"This is what a lot of people don't understand. Even for a small steam turbine the amount of space required is unreal.
You've got the turbine, generator, condenser, boiler, reactor, all the pipework, cooling water system, protection gear. For something to power a car 112 kw or about 150hp you'd need a transit van to lug it around.
You've then got to
what a lot of people don't understand is that a small solar panel on their garage roof will charge their vehicle enough for the milage they do ... polyphase electic distribution only came about to enable large corporations to make huge sums by pumping electricity over huge distances to miitigate the amount of power lost during the process ...the national grid is massivly inefficient and utterly outdated"
Additionally solar panels are becoming evermore powerfull and efficient and battery technology is increasing in energy density meaning lighter batteries and increased efficiency of the electric cars that have to lug them about.
Charge times are also being significantly reduced which may lead to a situation where recharging your car may take the same time as refueling at a petrol station. This would lead to a situation where redundant petrol pumps are replaced with electrical outlets as the oil companies diversify rather than sit idly and watch their market disappear.
There will also be development in energy recovery systems such as the type used to create electricity from the waste heat generated by your cars braking system.
Aside from all of that, charging your electric car overnight at home would have place less of a demand on the capacity/capability of the national grid as it is basically running at idle over night due to everyone being asleep and using hardly any electricity compared to day time. The daytime electrical demand is also reduced (per person) on account of energy efficiency due to developments such as led lighting, etc.
There is lots of scope to use electric more efficiently and is the prefered option to simply just creating more. Things like better traffic management to reduce wasted energy due to braking, sitting in traffic and cars with only one occupant. We will see more congestion charges, car sharing lanes (or maybe more likely single occupant surcharges) and eventually autonomous cars driven by a computer to ensure it is used in an efficient manner.
There is also something called the rebound effect which is where efficiency actually increases consumption. This is called the Jevon`s paradox. I won`t bore you with it but ultimately it means we will be charged more to keep usage in check. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This is what a lot of people don't understand. Even for a small steam turbine the amount of space required is unreal.
You've got the turbine, generator, condenser, boiler, reactor, all the pipework, cooling water system, protection gear. For something to power a car 112 kw or about 150hp you'd need a transit van to lug it around.
You've then got to
what a lot of people don't understand is that a small solar panel on their garage roof will charge their vehicle enough for the milage they do ... polyphase electic distribution only came about to enable large corporations to make huge sums by pumping electricity over huge distances to miitigate the amount of power lost during the process ...the national grid is massivly inefficient and utterly outdated
Additionally solar panels are becoming evermore powerfull and efficient and battery technology is increasing in energy density meaning lighter batteries and increased efficiency of the electric cars that have to lug them about.
Charge times are also being significantly reduced which may lead to a situation where recharging your car may take the same time as refueling at a petrol station. This would lead to a situation where redundant petrol pumps are replaced with electrical outlets as the oil companies diversify rather than sit idly and watch their market disappear.
There will also be development in energy recovery systems such as the type used to create electricity from the waste heat generated by your cars braking system.
Aside from all of that, charging your electric car overnight at home would have place less of a demand on the capacity/capability of the national grid as it is basically running at idle over night due to everyone being asleep and using hardly any electricity compared to day time. The daytime electrical demand is also reduced (per person) on account of energy efficiency due to developments such as led lighting, etc.
There is lots of scope to use electric more efficiently and is the prefered option to simply just creating more. Things like better traffic management to reduce wasted energy due to braking, sitting in traffic and cars with only one occupant. We will see more congestion charges, car sharing lanes (or maybe more likely single occupant surcharges) and eventually autonomous cars driven by a computer to ensure it is used in an efficient manner.
There is also something called the rebound effect which is where efficiency actually increases consumption. This is called the Jevon`s paradox. I won`t bore you with it but ultimately it means we will be charged more to keep usage in check."
scalextric ...
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/electric-motorways-uk-charge-your-car-as-you-drive-10460121.html
|
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"This is what a lot of people don't understand. Even for a small steam turbine the amount of space required is unreal.
You've got the turbine, generator, condenser, boiler, reactor, all the pipework, cooling water system, protection gear. For something to power a car 112 kw or about 150hp you'd need a transit van to lug it around.
You've then got to
what a lot of people don't understand is that a small solar panel on their garage roof will charge their vehicle enough for the milage they do ... polyphase electic distribution only came about to enable large corporations to make huge sums by pumping electricity over huge distances to miitigate the amount of power lost during the process ...the national grid is massivly inefficient and utterly outdated
Additionally solar panels are becoming evermore powerfull and efficient and battery technology is increasing in energy density meaning lighter batteries and increased efficiency of the electric cars that have to lug them about.
Charge times are also being significantly reduced which may lead to a situation where recharging your car may take the same time as refueling at a petrol station. This would lead to a situation where redundant petrol pumps are replaced with electrical outlets as the oil companies diversify rather than sit idly and watch their market disappear.
There will also be development in energy recovery systems such as the type used to create electricity from the waste heat generated by your cars braking system.
Aside from all of that, charging your electric car overnight at home would have place less of a demand on the capacity/capability of the national grid as it is basically running at idle over night due to everyone being asleep and using hardly any electricity compared to day time. The daytime electrical demand is also reduced (per person) on account of energy efficiency due to developments such as led lighting, etc.
There is lots of scope to use electric more efficiently and is the prefered option to simply just creating more. Things like better traffic management to reduce wasted energy due to braking, sitting in traffic and cars with only one occupant. We will see more congestion charges, car sharing lanes (or maybe more likely single occupant surcharges) and eventually autonomous cars driven by a computer to ensure it is used in an efficient manner.
There is also something called the rebound effect which is where efficiency actually increases consumption. This is called the Jevon`s paradox. I won`t bore you with it but ultimately it means we will be charged more to keep usage in check.
scalextric ...
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/electric-motorways-uk-charge-your-car-as-you-drive-10460121.html
"
Good point, I hadn`t even considered this. Wireless power is quite inefficient though, but again there will be further development to increase its viability. |
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" They're shit. End of. They don't solve any problem.
Ha ha! That viewpoint may have been valid maybe 15 years ago.
O.k.... explain please how current electric cars have less impact on the environment and how they are better in any way than the average petrol car.
Can nobody do this?"
It is far too complex a subject for any of us to give a definitive answer but i think the crux of it is that you have to consider the energy used in the extraction, transport and refining of oil based fuels. Crude oils has to be shipped allover the world, then heated and distilled and again transported to its final destination.
There is also the fact that internal combustion engines are terribly inefficient at converting the energy contained within the fuel into kinetic energy. A petrol engine is approx 50% efficient whereas electrical motors are 70-99% efficient.
Of course you need to ofset this with the efficiency of a powerstation which will vary depending on type. Then there is the the energy and environmental costs of making the batteries, however i am sure that they will be developments in recycling and reusing them to lessen this impact. |
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By *eesideMan
over a year ago
margate sumwear by the sea |
"Forum items love a challenge....so put your mind to this one folks.
At some point in the future (15-20-25 years?) The internal combustion engine will be a thing of the past....cars and other vehicles will be all electric.... but!!!! Currently we are struggling to keep our national grid fed with power..... Where will all this electricity come from?
Over to you guys."
We'll the guvarmount wood say sumthing like wind power and solar power to stay green. But thay don't generate enuf electric cos thay carnt run 24/7. So in the end it will probably end up being Nuclear power |
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By *eesideMan
over a year ago
margate sumwear by the sea |
"Forum items love a challenge....so put your mind to this one folks.
At some point in the future (15-20-25 years?) The internal combustion engine will be a thing of the past....cars and other vehicles will be all electric.... but!!!! Currently we are struggling to keep our national grid fed with power..... Where will all this electricity come from?
Over to you guys.
We'll the guvarmount wood say sumthing like wind power and solar power to stay green. But thay don't generate enuf electric cos thay carnt run 24/7. So in the end it will probably end up being Nuclear power "
Witch is 10 times worce than the internal combustion engine |
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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago
carrbrook stalybridge |
the problem for me with ug in electric cars is where are we goibg to put the charging infrastructure ? how are people who live in terraced houses or blocks of flats going to charge there vehicles ? many find it impossible to park within 50 yds of there front door so where are there charging points going to be how will there metering be done ? |
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" explain please how current electric cars have less impact on the environment and how they are better in any way than the average petrol car.
toxic emissions during travel for starters
Toxic emissions during travel taken in isolation.... yes. As part of the whole? I'm not convinced the benefits of that outweigh everything else.
All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us? "
And the damage done in the extraction of raw materials for the manufacture of batteries and solar panels. |
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" explain please how current electric cars have less impact on the environment and how they are better in any way than the average petrol car.
toxic emissions during travel for starters
Toxic emissions during travel taken in isolation.... yes. As part of the whole? I'm not convinced the benefits of that outweigh everything else.
All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
And the damage done in the extraction of raw materials for the manufacture of batteries and solar panels. "
Iron, aluminium, platinum and oil for plastics and fuel are raw materials that have to extracted and refined to make a internal combustion engine. Nickel, bronze, titainium and irridium are also found in some engines. Lead, and sometimes silver is in the batteries of petrol/diesel cars with some even beginning to use lithium batteries.
Oil spills are also a massive environmental disaster, both at sea and simply leaking from engines into the environment. Couple that with the vast quantites of used, contaminated oils at service intervals that need to be processed and disposed of you can see your argument isn`t as clear cut as it seems. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's easy, they will use diesel engines to run turbines and make electricity "
Well spotted
.
Many large generators have diesel starters, and then, what about firepumps, most industrial firepumps are diesel
.
and ofcourse emergency generators!!! diesel again
.
petrol & diesel engines a thing of the past; Bullshit.
.
even household goods, whilst some struggle with their plug in or battery operated hedge trimmer or chain saw, I will have the work finished in no time with my 2 stroke Stihl |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Just a cross thought... if you are in a flood, e.g, in Cumbria. Would you feel safer in a diesel powered landrover or a 600volt electric version?
I didn't know they were using 3 to 600 volt until I went looking to ponder the current drawn through extension leads hanging out of tower block windows or criss crossing the pavements in long extension leads in areas of terraced houses.
It will save money on street lights, all the glowing extension leads will provide 24/7 lighting
I don't know how it will play out, I do know that electricity is a much under rated danger, had enough shocks over the years to be very careful around it.
It's going to be an interesting experiment attempting to make electric cars for the masses, but as I was assured back in school that oil will run out before the year 2000, we probably need to get something done. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just a cross thought... if you are in a flood, e.g, in Cumbria. Would you feel safer in a diesel powered landrover or a 600volt electric version?
I didn't know they were using 3 to 600 volt until I went looking to ponder the current drawn through extension leads hanging out of tower block windows or criss crossing the pavements in long extension leads in areas of terraced houses.
It will save money on street lights, all the glowing extension leads will provide 24/7 lighting
I don't know how it will play out, I do know that electricity is a much under rated danger, had enough shocks over the years to be very careful around it.
It's going to be an interesting experiment attempting to make electric cars for the masses, but as I was assured back in school that oil will run out before the year 2000, we probably need to get something done."
Submarines and aircraft carriers are electric powered, as are a lot of cruise ships. My mate has an electric outboard motor for his dingy and that’s brilliant |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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the simple answer is that the ordinary people won't own cars they will rent them because car spends most of there time parked.
What none is asking is who gets the rental fees?
The whole global economy is turning into a rentier economy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hydrogen fuel cell is the only viable option really. Cost is the main issue at the moment, 3 cars are available in the US and China but cost 60-100k each, hardly affordable."
Elon Musk said hydrogen fuel cells are a bad idea but I can't remember what the details are. |
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"Hydrogen cell technology
"
Still need electric to produce the hydrogen.
But hydrogen is a great way to store the power from electric produced in peaks and troughs.
Tidal is also a good one for the uk. |
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"
Submarines and aircraft carriers are electric powered, as are a lot of cruise ships. My mate has an electric outboard motor for his dingy and that’s brilliant "
They have a diesel engine producing electricity for electric motors. |
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" explain please how current electric cars have less impact on the environment and how they are better in any way than the average petrol car.
toxic emissions during travel for starters
Toxic emissions during travel taken in isolation.... yes. As part of the whole? I'm not convinced the benefits of that outweigh everything else.
All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
And the damage done in the extraction of raw materials for the manufacture of batteries and solar panels.
Iron, aluminium, platinum and oil for plastics and fuel are raw materials that have to extracted and refined to make a internal combustion engine. Nickel, bronze, titainium and irridium are also found in some engines. Lead, and sometimes silver is in the batteries of petrol/diesel cars with some even beginning to use lithium batteries.
Oil spills are also a massive environmental disaster, both at sea and simply leaking from engines into the environment. Couple that with the vast quantites of used, contaminated oils at service intervals that need to be processed and disposed of you can see your argument isn`t as clear cut as it seems. "
So 2 wrongs do make a right. That's your argument. |
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What about trucks, electric motors to power 44 tons, trucks run 24 hrs a day when will they find the time to charge them can you imagine the smell that will be created from constantly charging batteries as gasses are released, has anyone ever seen a battery that has exploded during charging and the damage it can do... long live the internal combustion engine we are ruining the planet in so many ways in our greed for a easy luxury carefree throwaway life and we are all guilty ! |
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"What about trucks, electric motors to power 44 tons, trucks run 24 hrs a day when will they find the time to charge them can you imagine the smell that will be created from constantly charging batteries as gasses are released, has anyone ever seen a battery that has exploded during charging and the damage it can do... long live the internal combustion engine we are ruining the planet in so many ways in our greed for a easy luxury carefree throwaway life and we are all guilty !"
Seen Tesla are talking about a truck in a few years, infact i think it showed you a prototype. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Submarines and aircraft carriers are electric powered, as are a lot of cruise ships. My mate has an electric outboard motor for his dingy and that’s brilliant
They have a diesel engine producing electricity for electric motors."
Just looked this up, there is a hybrid technology being looked at for ships, gives 30 minutes propulsion to an already moving ship. Enough to cut the engine at sea and dock.
So nope apart from nuclear which is sort of a steam engine really, there are no electric ships. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Forum items love a challenge....so put your mind to this one folks.
At some point in the future (15-20-25 years?) The internal combustion engine will be a thing of the past....cars and other vehicles will be all electric.... but!!!! Currently we are struggling to keep our national grid fed with power..... Where will all this electricity come from?
Over to you guys."
I’ve not the time to read all the posts on this, so apologies if someone else has said something similar.
Electric cars are not the future.... they are dirt and horrible things to recycle. The end of life and also the production of batteries within the vehicle far out way the benefits of the vehicle. The only reason this technology is being push so much is that the governments are supported by such business as the electric / petroleum companies. If it were totally about the environment then we would hydrogen fueled vehicles already. The only byproduct of such an engine being water, but because this technology is not being developed by the multi national energy companies it is not weighted in the same way. 20 years time this technology will be state of art. |
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" explain please how current electric cars have less impact on the environment and how they are better in any way than the average petrol car.
toxic emissions during travel for starters
Toxic emissions during travel taken in isolation.... yes. As part of the whole? I'm not convinced the benefits of that outweigh everything else.
All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
And the damage done in the extraction of raw materials for the manufacture of batteries and solar panels.
Iron, aluminium, platinum and oil for plastics and fuel are raw materials that have to extracted and refined to make a internal combustion engine. Nickel, bronze, titainium and irridium are also found in some engines. Lead, and sometimes silver is in the batteries of petrol/diesel cars with some even beginning to use lithium batteries.
Oil spills are also a massive environmental disaster, both at sea and simply leaking from engines into the environment. Couple that with the vast quantites of used, contaminated oils at service intervals that need to be processed and disposed of you can see your argument isn`t as clear cut as it seems.
So 2 wrongs do make a right. That's your argument. "
No, it`s pointing out that there is more to consider when talking about environmental implications.
Is your argument just to misrepresent what i said and be deliberately obtuse? |
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Stop worrying about it, this is 22 years away.
When you consider the technological advances we have had over the past 22 years and how fledgling technologies gain momentum and become mainstream, battery technology for cars (or alternatives) will become cheaper and more readily available.
On the subject of power, there are small scale power production initiatives that have been starting up, whether using water mills, solar or wind power. Singularly they have very little impact with the minimal power they produce, supplying small villages and selling back a little power to the grid. The more of these that start up, the effect will be exponential in decreasing the load on the existing power production plants and infrastructure.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Electric cars move without warning and without noise. I got pushed over by one as I walked past it in a car park and it suddenly moved.
They should have some kind of alarm below 10mph imo."
Like a growler
Does anyone remember those? Like a twist throttle off a motorbike which produced a very “realistic “ motorbike noise. You’d fit it to your chopper.
Growlers and choppers eh  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Hydrogen convertion kit has been available for over a decade using very crude equipment and getting over 50% fuel economy. EV's are just a new cash cow for car manufacturers.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u5nld6HzEjM |
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"So everyone thinks the oil companies are just going to sit back and let it happen?
They will probably just buy up all the copyrights and put them into a sealed vault!!"
As Ever Ready did many years ago when a scientist invented a battery that self charged! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Submarines and aircraft carriers are electric powered, as are a lot of cruise ships. My mate has an electric outboard motor for his dingy and that’s brilliant
They have a diesel engine producing electricity for electric motors."
The point I was making is that it’s possible to use electric to power vehicles in wet environments |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Submarines and aircraft carriers are electric powered, as are a lot of cruise ships. My mate has an electric outboard motor for his dingy and that’s brilliant
They have a diesel engine producing electricity for electric motors.
The point I was making is that it’s possible to use electric to power vehicles in wet environments "
Well yes submarines have been electric since the peddle ones were abandoned. But quite a bit of effort goes in to keeping the water and electric separate. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"So everyone thinks the oil companies are just going to sit back and let it happen?
They will probably just buy up all the copyrights and put them into a sealed vault!!
As Ever Ready did many years ago when a scientist invented a battery that self charged!"
You do know that it was invented in April....on the first day of the month! |
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Increased use of public transportation is needed, instead of less energy intensive personal vehicles - is certainly likely as a measure.
Of course it's also probable that fewer people will have gainful employment and income, as AI, robotics etc replaces much of the workforces efforts. Reduced wealth also reduces the ability to afford transport, unless it's affordable.
The ideal electricity generation will be low cost, resource use and pollution causing. If you could plug your equipment into a special tree, powered from photosynthetic processes, it would be a flavour of our natural world's ability - whilst consuming and reducing CO2 levels. It would probably be achieved in part by some genetic modifications and some rich patent owners. There have been micro steps towards thinking of photosynthesis as a natural generation process and there are likely huge issues and barriers. Perhaps more of our infrastructure would be greened and more self supportive. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Submarines and aircraft carriers are electric powered, as are a lot of cruise ships. My mate has an electric outboard motor for his dingy and that’s brilliant
They have a diesel engine producing electricity for electric motors.
The point I was making is that it’s possible to use electric to power vehicles in wet environments
Well yes submarines have been electric since the peddle ones were abandoned. But quite a bit of effort goes in to keeping the water and electric separate."
Yes but they are submarines, and they are nuclear we perhaps wouldn’t need as much effort for a 4x4 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A point nobody seems to have mentioned...
If we’re not driving petrol or diesel cars, we won’t be using electricity to actually refine oil into Petrol and Diesel.
The refinery I work at uses about 41 MegaWatts... every day |
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"A point nobody seems to have mentioned...
If we’re not driving petrol or diesel cars, we won’t be using electricity to actually refine oil into Petrol and Diesel.
The refinery I work at uses about 41 MegaWatts... every day"
That would charge up more than a few cars!
I did mention in an earlier post that the production of petrol and diesel has a massive energy cost of it own.
You put it into perspective far better than I did though, and also prove my other point that there is a lot more to deciding what is best than is immediately obvious.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hydrogen fuel cell is the only viable option really. Cost is the main issue at the moment, 3 cars are available in the US and China but cost 60-100k each, hardly affordable."
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Where you gonna get the hydrogen from  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To answer the question.
It will come in many many forms from solar to wind to hydro to nuclear to storage.
It will probably also come about via a reduction in usage |
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