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It gets better! You couldn't make this shit up lol
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I'm taking my former employer to an Industrial Tribunal and after engaging a solicitor who treated my wallet as her own personal property I was advised by Acas to try the Citizens Advice Bureau. We made an appointment and went to see them last week and it was all looking good. The woman we saw said we had a case (but not whether it was winnable) and that they be in contact this week to say if they will represent me.
They just emailed me to say they can't represent me and when I asked what I should do next, they said they couldn't advise me on how I should proceed as they are not representing me.
The clue is in the name: Citizens ADVICE Bureau. Maybe the govt are right to scrap this totally ineffective 'service'.
Looks like it's Citizen Wishy -v- Unscrupulous Bastard Employer. I'll just go get me wig.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm taking my former employer to an Industrial Tribunal and after engaging a solicitor who treated my wallet as her own personal property I was advised by Acas to try the Citizens Advice Bureau. We made an appointment and went to see them last week and it was all looking good. The woman we saw said we had a case (but not whether it was winnable) and that they be in contact this week to say if they will represent me.
They just emailed me to say they can't represent me and when I asked what I should do next, they said they couldn't advise me on how I should proceed as they are not representing me.
The clue is in the name: Citizens ADVICE Bureau. Maybe the govt are right to scrap this totally ineffective 'service'.
Looks like it's Citizen Wishy -v- Unscrupulous Bastard Employer. I'll just go get me wig.
"
But they cannot give you advice if they are not representing you for legal reasons. Proceed with the case yourself if you think you have grounds. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"You having a good week then.
On the brightside its only 100 days to Christmas.  "
I'm thoroughly enjoying myself tbh. I'm taking on the system. Probably lose but hey ho, doesn't matter anyway cos I'll be self-employed soon and they'll get as little as possible from me after this.
Want ya house rewired? £2,000 + vat, £1,500 for cash nudge nudge wink wink say noo mooore! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I'm taking my former employer to an Industrial Tribunal and after engaging a solicitor who treated my wallet as her own personal property I was advised by Acas to try the Citizens Advice Bureau. We made an appointment and went to see them last week and it was all looking good. The woman we saw said we had a case (but not whether it was winnable) and that they be in contact this week to say if they will represent me.
They just emailed me to say they can't represent me and when I asked what I should do next, they said they couldn't advise me on how I should proceed as they are not representing me.
The clue is in the name: Citizens ADVICE Bureau. Maybe the govt are right to scrap this totally ineffective 'service'.
Looks like it's Citizen Wishy -v- Unscrupulous Bastard Employer. I'll just go get me wig.
But they cannot give you advice if they are not representing you for legal reasons. Proceed with the case yourself if you think you have grounds."
I think the decision was made when they realised the case will be heard in Reading - and we're in Newcastle.
It's a strong case I have, breach of T&Cs leading to constructive dismissal. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Try ACAS again and then try an ombudsman to further your case.
Mrs Artful had something similar, went on the company work site and got their list of rules/regulations, gave them to ACAS etc and came out well on top as the company hadn't followed procedures correctly amongst other things. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Try ACAS again and then try an ombudsman to further your case.
Mrs Artful had something similar, went on the company work site and got their list of rules/regulations, gave them to ACAS etc and came out well on top as the company hadn't followed procedures correctly amongst other things."
I was given an ultimatum to share a hotel room with a 20y/o lad I'd never met or resign. I'd already lodged a grievance against my line manager who had told me he was going to 'get rid of me as soon as he could' but management told me it wouldn't be investigated until I returned to work under the new conditions. If I had gone back to work it would have been deemed that I'd accepted the new conditions.
Previously, we had always had our own rooms when working away from home.
I resigned.
(there's a lot more to it than that but that's the basic outline) |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Funny as fuck even the Citizens Advice Bureau have had enough and are doing all they can to avoid the incessant ranting and non sexual moaning! "
What are the odds of two people from the same site going through the same thing. Don't feel so alone now. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I was given an ultimatum to share a hotel room with a 20y/o lad I'd never met or resign.
Wow Im off to check my contract. Fingers crossed... "
He was Polish, spotty and had a haircut like the lead singer from A Flock of Seagulls. You want his number? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think its the governments plans to scrap legal aid that will do the most damage to all cases akin to this. I've always found seeing a good solicitor is much more effective than using either citizens advice or any free legal advice helpline.
But now even the solicitors are reluctant to represent people in cases they aren't one hundred percent certain they are going to win.
So now your options are extremely limited, unless your rich....
Im not rich by the way...
Try finding a specialist solicitor that will give you a free half hour consultation, good luck though, took me 6 weeks to find one for myself.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I was given an ultimatum to share a hotel room with a 20y/o lad I'd never met or resign. I'd already lodged a grievance against my line manager who had told me he was going to 'get rid of me as soon as he could' but management told me it wouldn't be investigated until I returned to work under the new conditions. If I had gone back to work it would have been deemed that I'd accepted the new conditions.
Previously, we had always had our own rooms when working away from home.
I resigned.
(there's a lot more to it than that but that's the basic outline)"
I was discussing similar to this with my flat mate earlier in the year because I was in a similar position. From memory, unless you consent it is illegal - I think it breaches working time directives as you are not deemed to be having a break from work if you share a room with a colleague.
I assume that you aren't in a trade union who not only could advise you but would fund your legal challenge? |
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I assume that you aren't in a trade union who not only could advise you but would fund your legal challenge?"
I'm guessing, but Wishy's more likely to find a solicitor who'll act for him for free than be in a Trade Union. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
I was given an ultimatum to share a hotel room with a 20y/o lad I'd never met or resign. I'd already lodged a grievance against my line manager who had told me he was going to 'get rid of me as soon as he could' but management told me it wouldn't be investigated until I returned to work under the new conditions. If I had gone back to work it would have been deemed that I'd accepted the new conditions.
Previously, we had always had our own rooms when working away from home.
I resigned.
(there's a lot more to it than that but that's the basic outline)
I was discussing similar to this with my flat mate earlier in the year because I was in a similar position. From memory, unless you consent it is illegal - I think it breaches working time directives as you are not deemed to be having a break from work if you share a room with a colleague.
I assume that you aren't in a trade union who not only could advise you but would fund your legal challenge?"
The company I worked for _iew the word 'union' as a dirty word and anyone who mentioned it soon found themselves looking for a new job. I don't hold much truck with unions tbh but in a closed shop enviroment they do wield quite a bit of power. In a company that doesn't have union representation for it's employees it's like a toothless tiger.
As for finding a free solicitor, we've already laid out a considerable amount in legal fees and we had to stop using our solicitor as she was demanding yet more money before proceeding further without any indication of whether we would win our case or not, which is why we went to the CAB who were as equally ineffective. I've now decided to represent myself which is what Siren wanted me to do from the offset. I should have listened to her and saved ourselves a lot of money but I didn't feel that I had enough knowledge to go it alone, especially in a constructive dismissal case. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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The working time directive was helpful, I hadn't considered that. The company are maintaining that on the job I was working on it was normal practice for two engineers to share a room but they all worked in teams of two apart from myself (I worked alone), and each team of two knew each other personally as it was usually a lead engineer who then found a lad/trainee/junior to work with him, which more often than not was his best mate, nephew, brother or son.
Thanks for the heads up on that, I shall look into it as a possible avenue of defence. |
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"I'm taking my former employer to an Industrial Tribunal and after engaging a solicitor who treated my wallet as her own personal property I was advised by Acas to try the Citizens Advice Bureau. We made an appointment and went to see them last week and it was all looking good. The woman we saw said we had a case (but not whether it was winnable) and that they be in contact this week to say if they will represent me.
They just emailed me to say they can't represent me and when I asked what I should do next, they said they couldn't advise me on how I should proceed as they are not representing me.
The clue is in the name: Citizens ADVICE Bureau. Maybe the govt are right to scrap this totally ineffective 'service'.
Looks like it's Citizen Wishy -v- Unscrupulous Bastard Employer. I'll just go get me wig.
"
Wishy. I hear big companies are watching social networking sites as adverse blogs affect their reputation and sales.........
Why don't you do a CAB post on your facebook or twitter if you have them ? |
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By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
"I'm taking my former employer to an Industrial Tribunal and after engaging a solicitor who treated my wallet as her own personal property I was advised by Acas to try the Citizens Advice Bureau. We made an appointment and went to see them last week and it was all looking good. The woman we saw said we had a case (but not whether it was winnable) and that they be in contact this week to say if they will represent me.
They just emailed me to say they can't represent me and when I asked what I should do next, they said they couldn't advise me on how I should proceed as they are not representing me.
The clue is in the name: Citizens ADVICE Bureau. Maybe the govt are right to scrap this totally ineffective 'service'.
Looks like it's Citizen Wishy -v- Unscrupulous Bastard Employer. I'll just go get me wig.
Wishy. I hear big companies are watching social networking sites as adverse blogs affect their reputation and sales.........
Why don't you do a CAB post on your facebook or twitter if you have them ?"
I agree Grannyx
I have dismissed people for writing stuff about the company on Facebook.. most get their people sign a behavioural code of conduct re social networking sites. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The working time directive was helpful, I hadn't considered that. The company are maintaining that on the job I was working on it was normal practice for two engineers to share a room but they all worked in teams of two apart from myself (I worked alone), and each team of two knew each other personally as it was usually a lead engineer who then found a lad/trainee/junior to work with him, which more often than not was his best mate, nephew, brother or son.
Thanks for the heads up on that, I shall look into it as a possible avenue of defence."
I probably wont see my flatmate till next week as I am very rarely at home these days but when I do I'll ask him more about it. |
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"
I have dismissed people for writing stuff about the company on Facebook.. most get their people sign a behavioural code of conduct re social networking sites."
I bet you've "dismissed" a lot more for what they write on here? |
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By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
"
I have dismissed people for writing stuff about the company on Facebook.. most get their people sign a behavioural code of conduct re social networking sites.
I bet you've "dismissed" a lot more for what they write on here?"
ffs, I wouldn't employ in the first place |
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By *oole2010Couple
over a year ago
southampto |
sorry to see you have been done like so many others because employers think they can treat anyone the way they like my story is i got divorced 10 years ago went to solicitor for half hour advice charged me 65 then said i can represent for 160 an hour thought bugger that id be working to pay his tesco bill so wat i did was go through the internet check all the rules and regs like i did then represent yourself you will save thousands and all you have to do is book a court date with a judge in chambers or whatever legal body first but you obviously have to do everything as regards to your personal case anyone can represent themselves all you nee is the know how as a lot of the legal system bank on the fact they think we are all thick like baldrick |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The working time directive was helpful, I hadn't considered that. The company are maintaining that on the job I was working on it was normal practice for two engineers to share a room but they all worked in teams of two apart from myself (I worked alone), and each team of two knew each other personally as it was usually a lead engineer who then found a lad/trainee/junior to work with him, which more often than not was his best mate, nephew, brother or son.
Thanks for the heads up on that, I shall look into it as a possible avenue of defence."
if you worked/travelled/stayed alone regularly (the length of time being the length of a piece of string) with no objection from management then despite what may have been formally written in you contract, or accepted by others, you could argue that your local terms and conditions were different by 'custom and practice'. such implied terms - if accepted - are enforcible cannot be changed without mutual agreement.
hit the google button for more details but hope this helps. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Try ACAS again and then try an ombudsman to further your case.
Mrs Artful had something similar, went on the company work site and got their list of rules/regulations, gave them to ACAS etc and came out well on top as the company hadn't followed procedures correctly amongst other things.
I was given an ultimatum to share a hotel room with a 20y/o lad I'd never met or resign. I'd already lodged a grievance against my line manager who had told me he was going to 'get rid of me as soon as he could' but management told me it wouldn't be investigated until I returned to work under the new conditions. If I had gone back to work it would have been deemed that I'd accepted the new conditions.
Previously, we had always had our own rooms when working away from home.
I resigned.
(there's a lot more to it than that but that's the basic outline)"
i would have packed a hockey mask and a chainsaw and said 'sleep tight' to the 20 year old, while sharpening the blades of the chainsaw... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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@_oole2010:
All the legwork has been done and the tribunal date has been set for November. I've paid out a lot of money already so searching for a free solicitor at this stage would be pointless. The Schedule of Loss has been sent and a List of Documents generated. The next step is to prepare my 'bundle' of documents that will be used at the hearing. I'll now need to get hold of a copy of the employee handbook as my was destroyed in the back of my van ages ago (chemical spill).
I'm looking forward to my day as Petrocelli in court, but I hope I don't drop into my impression of Lieutenant George from Blackadder and start yelling, "Oh go on your honour, let him off!" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I was given an ultimatum to share a hotel room with a 20y/o lad I'd never met or resign. I'd already lodged a grievance against my line manager who had told me he was going to 'get rid of me as soon as he could' but management told me it wouldn't be investigated until I returned to work under the new conditions. If I had gone back to work it would have been deemed that I'd accepted the new conditions.
Previously, we had always had our own rooms when working away from home.
I resigned.
(there's a lot more to it than that but that's the basic outline)
I was discussing similar to this with my flat mate earlier in the year because I was in a similar position. From memory, unless you consent it is illegal - I think it breaches working time directives as you are not deemed to be having a break from work if you share a room with a colleague.
I assume that you aren't in a trade union who not only could advise you but would fund your legal challenge?
The company I worked for _iew the word 'union' as a dirty word and anyone who mentioned it soon found themselves looking for a new job. I don't hold much truck with unions tbh but in a closed shop enviroment they do wield quite a bit of power. In a company that doesn't have union representation for it's employees it's like a toothless tiger.
As for finding a free solicitor, we've already laid out a considerable amount in legal fees and we had to stop using our solicitor as she was demanding yet more money before proceeding further without any indication of whether we would win our case or not, which is why we went to the CAB who were as equally ineffective. I've now decided to represent myself which is what Siren wanted me to do from the offset. I should have listened to her and saved ourselves a lot of money but I didn't feel that I had enough knowledge to go it alone, especially in a constructive dismissal case."
Good luck with your constructive dismissal case, they are notoriously difficult to win. I have to tell members on a daily basis that employer's are often unfair and unreasonable but their actions not illegal.
Tribunals also apply rules differently when dealing with employer's and employees: they give employer's a mile but wont give employee's a centimeter.
I would offer my help but I'm a leftie, trade unionist and I know how you feel about us.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
I would offer my help but I'm a leftie, trade unionist and I know how you feel about us. "
Only some of them. They're not all bad. When I worked for the Post Office many moons ago the union stopped the sale of our division to Securicor stating that the Post Office cannot sell people and that our division was profitable because of the people working in it. Securicor are notorious for wanting their pound of flesh whereas the PO have a job & knock culture. I admired that union then as they truly had their members interests at heart.
It's the Bob Crow militant assholes I cannot stomach. I don't think he gives a monkey's about his members so long as he's seen to be 'having a go at the toffs'. |
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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago
Hull |
"Try ACAS again and then try an ombudsman to further your case.
Mrs Artful had something similar, went on the company work site and got their list of rules/regulations, gave them to ACAS etc and came out well on top as the company hadn't followed procedures correctly amongst other things.
I was given an ultimatum to share a hotel room with a 20y/o lad I'd never met or resign. I'd already lodged a grievance against my line manager who had told me he was going to 'get rid of me as soon as he could' but management told me it wouldn't be investigated until I returned to work under the new conditions. If I had gone back to work it would have been deemed that I'd accepted the new conditions.
Previously, we had always had our own rooms when working away from home.
I resigned.
(there's a lot more to it than that but that's the basic outline)"
Wishy.
From November 2009, throughout last year, and into this year until being made redundant in February, I and my colleagues had continual battles with our bosses and company in general, with them trying to change conditions on an almost "overnight" basis.
What they continually failed to adhere to was allowing a 90 day period before making changes.
Their argument was that no-one has objected, so we will make the changes, whilst in reality, they'd rush the cahnges through overnight without telling anyone, or just said, "these work patterns or rules, etc, have all changed; you have to accept them!"
Our Union shop stewards were kept very busy. Where it may assist you, is how much time did they give you to assess these alterations, or new conditions? If they just sprung the on you, if they didn't go through formal procedures, especially under the usual 90 day ruling and importantly, if they didn't get you to agree formally, i.e., sign the altered terms and conditions of your contract, then I don't see them having any legal leg to stand on.
Especially if they have said (and for this you have to get proof too) "if you return to work, then that is tantamount to you accepting the new conditions", then if that was me in your circumstances, I'd be creating merry hell right now!!!
I'd be contacting my local press too; they love stories like this! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
"if you return to work, then that is tantamount to you accepting the new conditions""
My solicitor told me that.
As regards to how much notice I'd been given: zero.
I turned up on site knowing I'd be stopping in a hotel but not with a 20y/o lad. |
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"if you return to work, then that is tantamount to you accepting the new conditions"
My solicitor told me that.
As regards to how much notice I'd been given: zero.
I turned up on site knowing I'd be stopping in a hotel but not with a 20y/o lad."
And if it had been a 20y/o woman?
Enquiring minds and all that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The working time directive was helpful, I hadn't considered that. The company are maintaining that on the job I was working on it was normal practice for two engineers to share a room but they all worked in teams of two apart from myself (I worked alone), and each team of two knew each other personally as it was usually a lead engineer who then found a lad/trainee/junior to work with him, which more often than not was his best mate, nephew, brother or son.
Thanks for the heads up on that, I shall look into it as a possible avenue of defence."
Right, spoke to the flatmate who I've unexpectedly seen tonight.
"Normal practice" is pretty irrelevent. Working hour directive states 11 hours break between the start end of one shift and start of another shift. This is deemed time that you are away from work. It is reasonable that if you are working away that to have that break you won't be sharing with a colleague unless you so choose. The obvious exception being a short term asrrangement say for a night or 2 to help someone out of a hole. I am not sure if this is law but suspect that it is more a best practice so my advice would be to research what is the norm in your sector. |
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"if you return to work, then that is tantamount to you accepting the new conditions"
My solicitor told me that.
"
That's not actually correct...
(taken from directgov)
"Sometimes your employer will want to bring in a change to your contract that you don't agree to. Find out what your rights are if that is happening and how you can raise your complaint.
What if you and your employer don't agree?
If you don't agree, your employer is not allowed to just bring in a change. However, they can terminate your contract (by giving notice) and offer you a new one including the revised terms - effectively sacking you and taking you back on. Your employer would be expected to follow a statutory minimum dismissal procedure. They may have to follow a collective redundancy consultation process if they plan to do this to a group of employees.
If this situation happens in your workplace, you should contact the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service (Acas) or another advice service from our contacts pages for further guidance.
Employment contacts.
If you don't accept the new contract - or if you've accepted the new one but feel there was no good reason for ending the old one - you have the right to make an unfair dismissal claim provided you've at least one year of continuous service with your employer. You may also be able to claim redundancy if you have at least two years service.
If there is a sound business reason for the change, and your employer has properly consulted you and looked into any alternatives, you could find it difficult to win your claim.
Unfair dismissal Entitlement to redundancy pay What you can do?
Your employer isn't entitled to simply bring in any change they wish. If your employer tries to make a change that you don't agree with (for example trying to demote you or cut your pay) tell them immediately. Put your objections in writing, asking for reasons for the change and explaining why you don't agree.
If you carry on working without taking action it may count as acceptance of the new terms (even if you haven't signed anything), so you'll need to make your objections clear.
If you start to work under the new terms, make it clear that you're working under protest and are treating the change as a breach of contract. Try to sort out the problem directly with your employer. If you can't resolve the problem directly, you may need to take some kind of legal action.
How to resolve a problem at work Breach of contract complaint
If your employer tries to force a change in your employment contract without your agreement this will be a breach of contract. If you suffer a financial loss because of the breach (for instance your employer cuts your pay) you may be able to seek damages by making a claim for:
breach of contract
unfair dismissal if one of your statutory employment rights has been breached
unlawful deductions from wages if your pay is reduced because of the change
constructive dismissal if the situation is completely unbearable and you regard yourself as having been dismissed"
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Right, spoke to the flatmate who I've unexpectedly seen tonight.
"Normal practice" is pretty irrelevent. Working hour directive states 11 hours break between the start end of one shift and start of another shift. This is deemed time that you are away from work. It is reasonable that if you are working away that to have that break you won't be sharing with a colleague unless you so choose. The obvious exception being a short term asrrangement say for a night or 2 to help someone out of a hole. I am not sure if this is law but suspect that it is more a best practice so my advice would be to research what is the norm in your sector."
I would have been sharing with this lad for the duration of the project where we were working, which was to last for 6 weeks. I found that absolutely unreasonable and told them I was not prepared to do that. There was no 90-day notice period of any changes to my normal working practices and I simply had to do it or quit.
Have to say guys & gals, that I'm glad I started this thread as you have all been very helpful tonight. Thank you all for that. Sincerely. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This issue isn't that you were asked to share with a lad. It's the references of you resigning and "getting rid of you".
If you'd been employed for longer than 12 months then tis is what you can go for. This won't be that hard to win because, assuming that you don't have an extensive disciplinary file, you weren't put through an official warning process.
I've represented a friend through one of these previously.
One piece of advice I'd give you is ask the tribunal if you can come and sit in on one beforehand so you can learn the structure and understand how you can apply your case in reality.
The tribunal will talk you through the proceeding so there's no need to feel intimidated.
Good luck. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Sounds like you are in a tough spot.
Is it too late to join a union? I am told they have legal experts and they cover legal costs in matters like this?
Good luck !!!! |
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