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Black and white thinking
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"Interesting article on b&w thinking. “Good guy or bad guy; with me or against me; friend or foe; right or wrong; love versus hate; yin and yang. Our minds seem to like simple categorical ways to divide up information in the world. This is kind of interesting given how terribly complex and nuanced most things are - especially in our social lives. So why do we so strongly tend toward categorical simplicity in understanding the world? And what are costs and benefits of such reasoning in our day-to-day lives? One of the interesting things about human social psychology is that, in many regards, we tend to over-simplify stimuli in our social worlds - seeing things that could be conceptualized as complex and nuanced as simple and categorical. For instance, in many ways, we divide people into the category of “on my team” or “not” per the powerful ingroup/outgroup phenomenon (Billig & Tajfel, 1973). Quickly and automatically, people divide folks into these categories - and research has shown that we treat people very differently if they are in our (psychologically constructed) group or not. We see others as friends or as foes. We see people as good or bad. We see people as on our side, or against us. In an important sense, then, the simplicity-seeking processes in our basic visual systems parallel simplicity-seeking processes in our social perceptions. And this tendency to see others in our social world in neat little categories, such as “good” or “bad,” likely helped our ancestors make efficient social decisions that helped them consort with others who were likely to help and support them and their families. Of course being overly simplistic in our social perceptions can be the basis of major problems in our worlds. As a college professor in the behavioral sciences, I am always trying to get students to understand nuances and complexities that underlie all behavior. Further, as an evolutionary psychologist, I am always teaching about human universals - or the fact that, at the end of the day, we’re all humans and all have come about the by same processes - and are all working toward similar goals that stem simply from being part of the living world. And sometimes our science encourages simplicity seeking. As one example, consider current research on the topic of narcissists (see, for example, Paulhus & Williams, 2002). Researchers into relatively “dark” aspects of human personality have found that a core dark trait is narcissism - a tendency to focus overly on oneself at a cost to caring about others. People who are high on narcissism tend to behave in ways that truly benefit themselves a lot and such individuals tend to have little problem disregarding the interests of others. This said, one nuance that often gets lost in the mix when it comes to narcissism is this: Narcissism is a continuous trait - people vary from one another by matters of degree. As is true with all continuous personality traits, people do not vary from one another categorically on this dimension. Thus, technically (and importantly), it’s not like there are “the narcissists” and “everyone else.” Rather, everyone has some proclivities toward narcissism - and some do more so, on average, than do others. Now that’s a much more nuanced approach to thinking about what narcissism is, isn’t it? It’s also less simple. It’s less black-and-white. And, as someone who has taught courses in personality psychology since 1995, I can tell you also that it’s a difficult way for students (or anyone) to think about narcissism. It is so much easier and more natural for us to think about “narcissists” versus “everyone else” - and this fact is strongly rooted in our basic perceptual processes that promote black-and-white thinking in all areas of our lives. Of course, this same problem, of seeing other people in overly simplified ways, is related to how things like ethnic or religious background affect how we see others. And yeah, lots of problems in this world stem from this fact. The social world is complex. In reality, people don’t really easily fall into categories of “good” and “evil” or "smart" or "dumb" or "helpful" or "lazy" - etc. In spite of the fact that human universals underlie so much of who we are, people have a very strong tendency to see others in highly simplistic, categorical ways. It’s way easier to see someone as “a narcissist” than to see that person as “slightly above the mean on the narcissist dimension at times.” It’s way easier to see someone as “a hypocrite” than to see someone as “less likely to hold and express consonant thoughts on average compared with others.” In the figure/ground illusion (see Hasson et al., 2001), we see a simple set of visual stimuli as either a vase OR as a pair of faces — never both at the same time. And we often treat people in our social worlds with this same kind of categorical simplicity - often to the detriment of our getting to really know others in our world.”" My brain hurts  | |||
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"You think we will read, specially men? We don't bother reading 3 line profile never mind this 3 page whatever it is... "It’s a beautiful filter then. I’ve found some amazing guys who have read my essay posts of last year.  | |||
"You think we will read, specially men? We don't bother reading 3 line profile never mind this 3 page whatever it is...
It’s a beautiful filter then. I’ve found some amazing guys who have read my essay posts of last year. "Have they left fab now? | |||
"You think we will read, specially men? We don't bother reading 3 line profile never mind this 3 page whatever it is...
It’s a beautiful filter then. I’ve found some amazing guys who have read my essay posts of last year.
Have they left fab now? "No, why? | |||
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"Insightful. Thank you. I'm quite glad that from a young age my dad stopped me in my tracks whenever I called anyone anything. He taught me not to pigeon hole people, and I suppose that helps with the black and white aspect of my thinking. I called somebody a bully once, and he stopped me and asked why I thought that. I told him because she was mean to me. He explained that because somebody is mean to you once, doesn't make them a bully. Maybe she was having a bad day or I did something to push her to be mean to me. He told me to step back and look at how she is most of the time, not just how she behaved towards me that day. I spoke with her the next day about being mean to me and she apologised and we were civil the rest of the time we were in school together. She's not a bully, she was just being meaner than most for that moment in time. I'd forgotten about that story " What a wonderful dad! And that’s a great story, good on you for speaking to her about it. | |||
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"Nothing is black and white I also can't think today"  | |||
"Nothing is black and white I also can't think today "Can I revisit this later? X | |||
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"Nothing is black and white I also can't think today
Can I revisit this later? X"Always xx | |||
"Interesting article on b&w thinking. “Good guy or bad guy; with me or against me; friend or foe; right or wrong; love versus hate; yin and yang. Our minds seem to like simple categorical ways to divide up information in the world. This is kind of interesting given how terribly complex and nuanced most things are - especially in our social lives. So why do we so strongly tend toward categorical simplicity in understanding the world? And what are costs and benefits of such reasoning in our day-to-day lives? One of the interesting things about human social psychology is that, in many regards, we tend to over-simplify stimuli in our social worlds - seeing things that could be conceptualized as complex and nuanced as simple and categorical. For instance, in many ways, we divide people into the category of “on my team” or “not” per the powerful ingroup/outgroup phenomenon (Billig & Tajfel, 1973). Quickly and automatically, people divide folks into these categories - and research has shown that we treat people very differently if they are in our (psychologically constructed) group or not. We see others as friends or as foes. We see people as good or bad. We see people as on our side, or against us. In an important sense, then, the simplicity-seeking processes in our basic visual systems parallel simplicity-seeking processes in our social perceptions. And this tendency to see others in our social world in neat little categories, such as “good” or “bad,” likely helped our ancestors make efficient social decisions that helped them consort with others who were likely to help and support them and their families. Of course being overly simplistic in our social perceptions can be the basis of major problems in our worlds. As a college professor in the behavioral sciences, I am always trying to get students to understand nuances and complexities that underlie all behavior. Further, as an evolutionary psychologist, I am always teaching about human universals - or the fact that, at the end of the day, we’re all humans and all have come about the by same processes - and are all working toward similar goals that stem simply from being part of the living world. And sometimes our science encourages simplicity seeking. As one example, consider current research on the topic of narcissists (see, for example, Paulhus & Williams, 2002). Researchers into relatively “dark” aspects of human personality have found that a core dark trait is narcissism - a tendency to focus overly on oneself at a cost to caring about others. People who are high on narcissism tend to behave in ways that truly benefit themselves a lot and such individuals tend to have little problem disregarding the interests of others. This said, one nuance that often gets lost in the mix when it comes to narcissism is this: Narcissism is a continuous trait - people vary from one another by matters of degree. As is true with all continuous personality traits, people do not vary from one another categorically on this dimension. Thus, technically (and importantly), it’s not like there are “the narcissists” and “everyone else.” Rather, everyone has some proclivities toward narcissism - and some do more so, on average, than do others. Now that’s a much more nuanced approach to thinking about what narcissism is, isn’t it? It’s also less simple. It’s less black-and-white. And, as someone who has taught courses in personality psychology since 1995, I can tell you also that it’s a difficult way for students (or anyone) to think about narcissism. It is so much easier and more natural for us to think about “narcissists” versus “everyone else” - and this fact is strongly rooted in our basic perceptual processes that promote black-and-white thinking in all areas of our lives. Of course, this same problem, of seeing other people in overly simplified ways, is related to how things like ethnic or religious background affect how we see others. And yeah, lots of problems in this world stem from this fact. The social world is complex. In reality, people don’t really easily fall into categories of “good” and “evil” or "smart" or "dumb" or "helpful" or "lazy" - etc. In spite of the fact that human universals underlie so much of who we are, people have a very strong tendency to see others in highly simplistic, categorical ways. It’s way easier to see someone as “a narcissist” than to see that person as “slightly above the mean on the narcissist dimension at times.” It’s way easier to see someone as “a hypocrite” than to see someone as “less likely to hold and express consonant thoughts on average compared with others.” In the figure/ground illusion (see Hasson et al., 2001), we see a simple set of visual stimuli as either a vase OR as a pair of faces — never both at the same time. And we often treat people in our social worlds with this same kind of categorical simplicity - often to the detriment of our getting to really know others in our world.”" Yup x | |||
"Can you precis that for me please. My brain isn't working today and my eyes don't want to focus for more than a few seconds. " Nuance and the grey area rocks best. | |||
"So there is no B&W thinking. The author of this article has just advised of probably just a few the many different complexities of people categorising others and the ways people allow others into their groups." I don’t think it says there is no B&W thinking...? | |||
"I think in general we simplify things get to an answer or viable end point. I think there are way to many variables and potential nuances sometimes to look at each situation on merit, with context and totality of information. We would simply never get anything concluded. I like objective referencing to remove subjective bias from a thought process or decision making. I think that generally when you look at an issue objectively, and as free of conscious bias as possible, a lot of things can be black and white. Also, aa general rule of thumb I like the general principle that if you can’t explain it simply you probably don’t understand it well enough. That often separates for me "That’s an excellent rule of thumb!! | |||
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"Some might think that swingers are a group. If you are one they’re an in-group, if you’re not they’re an out-group. Yet the amount of arguments and heated discussions on these forums alone goes to show how important it is to consider shades of grey "How many shades? 50? | |||
"Some might think that swingers are a group. If you are one they’re an in-group, if you’re not they’re an out-group. Yet the amount of arguments and heated discussions on these forums alone goes to show how important it is to consider shades of grey
How many shades? 50? "Bahaha yeah! | |||
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"Interesting - and how about Melanie Klein and her "good breast/bad breast" theory? Not that I'm a massive fan of hers, but just reminded me of it" Oh yes! Although I can imagine the threads on good breast/bad breast being interestingly interpreted on here! 
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"Some might think that swingers are a group. If you are one they’re an in-group, if you’re not they’re an out-group. Yet the amount of arguments and heated discussions on these forums alone goes to show how important it is to consider shades of grey
How many shades? 50?
Bahaha yeah! "Oh boy, do some people miss out on loads because of their black and white view of things, their choice of course. We have met some incredible people through them, or us making some kind of adjustment to what either of us would have been a no-no. It's only when you get talking that you discover that maybe they (or us for that matter) haven't explained something very well in the profile. | |||
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"Some might think that swingers are a group. If you are one they’re an in-group, if you’re not they’re an out-group. Yet the amount of arguments and heated discussions on these forums alone goes to show how important it is to consider shades of grey
How many shades? 50?
Bahaha yeah! Oh boy, do some people miss out on loads because of their black and white view of things, their choice of course.
We have met some incredible people through them, or us making some kind of adjustment to what either of us would have been a no-no. It's only when you get talking that you discover that maybe they (or us for that matter) haven't explained something very well in the profile.
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"Some guys read. There is very little in the world that is black or white...neithrr of which are colours anyway. The entire world everyone in it it some variation of the millions of shades of grey driven by their joys fears experiences and judging others indeed their own life through the spectrum of their own experience. And maybe even trying to judge others based on such subjectivity. It's hard to set aside those triggers that we use to judge others and maybe we are not meant to. The infinite variety of human experience dictates that if all desicions are reduced to a binary consideration then the world defaults to two tribes black or white good or bad. It allows for no subtlety of human experience or emotion. Those shades of grey thst form our attitudes are why we all all diverse why attraction physical mental emotional vary so much and whst drive our interest in others and the creation of connections between people that maintain a diversity of thought imagination attraction desire lust and every other element of our humanity. In fab like the rest of life it's those shades of grey thst drive us to know more seek more want more and dictate how we perceive others and maybe how we try to seek those connections that transcend the ordinary into a place and space where the connection drives our need for relationships that may often be seen as outside what others would perceive to be as the norm. Sometimes those connections are hard to find but when we do find them...they usually change not only us... but the whole world too." | |||
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"I believe character traits, sexuality, mental states etc. are not b&w but on a sliding scale. Faced with the dangers of the past making snap judgments about what others were would have been very useful for basic survival. Even those of us who see things not so b&w will have to make that b&w call in some cases. Someone holding a knife and looking angry may just be having a bad moment, or even play acting, but a 'he's bad' judgement decision could save your life. For me at least, this article is actually describing something called emotional intelligence. It has nothing to do with academic intelligence. It's being more prone to awareness of the nuances mentioned in the article. Seeing the bigger picture comes naturally to the more emotionally intelligent person. And like many life skills, some will have in in them already and many will be taught. ArcticFoxxx's post proves this I'd say. It can also be just a series of accumulated experiences that build it. Something might make you realise things aren't always quite so, and then you begin to question what you see in another experiences. And you slowly build up the ability to interpret the nuances. A relatively recent experience for me was reading a post on here about a chap who was speeding to be at his dying father's bedside. And a car in front of him deliberately slowed him down. He missed his father's passing by 5 minutes. A couple of months ago I was driving in Nottingham and there was a car being driven by an 'obvious' lunatic. Overtaking, undertaking, swerving between cars like something out of a Fast & Furious movie. Out to kill himself I thought. And then I remembered the Fab post and realised we were on the route to the QMC Hospital. He probably wasn't a lunatic after all, just someone possibly about to lose a loved one " | |||
"B&W thinking happens when people are stressed because of how the brain has evolved. the more stressed someone is the harder it is for someone to see shades of grey." You're so right, we should have discussed this yesterday | |||
"B&W thinking happens when people are stressed because of how the brain has evolved. the more stressed someone is the harder it is for someone to see shades of grey. You're so right, we should have discussed this yesterday "Neurology and linguistics are two things I know a little about so I'm sure I could have bored you alot lol | |||
"So there is no B&W thinking. The author of this article has just advised of probably just a few the many different complexities of people categorising others and the ways people allow others into their groups. I don’t think it says there is no B&W thinking...?" Simply, the article is an oxymoron. It is talking about B&W thinking, yet giving a vast number of examples of the supposed different ways that people think in B&W - so is contradictory by default. The article should be called Rainbow Thinking, as it's nowhere near B&W. The first line sets the stage for B&W thinking yet doesn't reflect on itself that this 'B&W thinking' is varied by degree. The next 11 paragraphs then examine B&W thought but only Hasson et al., 2001, on the last line offers any inference to it being detrimental. None advise that we don't actually do it (in many different degrees). | |||
"So there is no B&W thinking. The author of this article has just advised of probably just a few the many different complexities of people categorising others and the ways people allow others into their groups. I don’t think it says there is no B&W thinking...? Simply, the article is an oxymoron. It is talking about B&W thinking, yet giving a vast number of examples of the supposed different ways that people think in B&W - so is contradictory by default. The article should be called Rainbow Thinking, as it's nowhere near B&W. The first line sets the stage for B&W thinking yet doesn't reflect on itself that this 'B&W thinking' is varied by degree. The next 11 paragraphs then examine B&W thought but only Hasson et al., 2001, on the last line offers any inference to it being detrimental. None advise that we don't actually do it (in many different degrees). " I’m not actually following what you’re saying? | |||
"Neurology and linguistics are two things I know a little about so I'm sure I could have bored you alot lol" That wouldn't bore me at all | |||
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"Interesting article on b&w thinking. “Good guy or bad guy; with me or against me; friend or foe; right or wrong; love versus hate; yin and yang. Our minds seem to like simple categorical ways to divide up information in the world. This is kind of interesting given how terribly complex and nuanced most things are - especially in our social lives. So why do we so strongly tend toward categorical simplicity in understanding the world? And what are costs and benefits of such reasoning in our day-to-day lives? One of the interesting things about human social psychology is that, in many regards, we tend to over-simplify stimuli in our social worlds - seeing things that could be conceptualized as complex and nuanced as simple and categorical. For instance, in many ways, we divide people into the category of “on my team” or “not” per the powerful ingroup/outgroup phenomenon (Billig & Tajfel, 1973). Quickly and automatically, people divide folks into these categories - and research has shown that we treat people very differently if they are in our (psychologically constructed) group or not. We see others as friends or as foes. We see people as good or bad. We see people as on our side, or against us. In an important sense, then, the simplicity-seeking processes in our basic visual systems parallel simplicity-seeking processes in our social perceptions. And this tendency to see others in our social world in neat little categories, such as “good” or “bad,” likely helped our ancestors make efficient social decisions that helped them consort with others who were likely to help and support them and their families. Of course being overly simplistic in our social perceptions can be the basis of major problems in our worlds. As a college professor in the behavioral sciences, I am always trying to get students to understand nuances and complexities that underlie all behavior. Further, as an evolutionary psychologist, I am always teaching about human universals - or the fact that, at the end of the day, we’re all humans and all have come about the by same processes - and are all working toward similar goals that stem simply from being part of the living world. And sometimes our science encourages simplicity seeking. As one example, consider current research on the topic of narcissists (see, for example, Paulhus & Williams, 2002). Researchers into relatively “dark” aspects of human personality have found that a core dark trait is narcissism - a tendency to focus overly on oneself at a cost to caring about others. People who are high on narcissism tend to behave in ways that truly benefit themselves a lot and such individuals tend to have little problem disregarding the interests of others. This said, one nuance that often gets lost in the mix when it comes to narcissism is this: Narcissism is a continuous trait - people vary from one another by matters of degree. As is true with all continuous personality traits, people do not vary from one another categorically on this dimension. Thus, technically (and importantly), it’s not like there are “the narcissists” and “everyone else.” Rather, everyone has some proclivities toward narcissism - and some do more so, on average, than do others. Now that’s a much more nuanced approach to thinking about what narcissism is, isn’t it? It’s also less simple. It’s less black-and-white. And, as someone who has taught courses in personality psychology since 1995, I can tell you also that it’s a difficult way for students (or anyone) to think about narcissism. It is so much easier and more natural for us to think about “narcissists” versus “everyone else” - and this fact is strongly rooted in our basic perceptual processes that promote black-and-white thinking in all areas of our lives. Of course, this same problem, of seeing other people in overly simplified ways, is related to how things like ethnic or religious background affect how we see others. And yeah, lots of problems in this world stem from this fact. The social world is complex. In reality, people don’t really easily fall into categories of “good” and “evil” or "smart" or "dumb" or "helpful" or "lazy" - etc. In spite of the fact that human universals underlie so much of who we are, people have a very strong tendency to see others in highly simplistic, categorical ways. It’s way easier to see someone as “a narcissist” than to see that person as “slightly above the mean on the narcissist dimension at times.” It’s way easier to see someone as “a hypocrite” than to see someone as “less likely to hold and express consonant thoughts on average compared with others.” In the figure/ground illusion (see Hasson et al., 2001), we see a simple set of visual stimuli as either a vase OR as a pair of faces — never both at the same time. And we often treat people in our social worlds with this same kind of categorical simplicity - often to the detriment of our getting to really know others in our world.” My brain hurts "You read it?  | |||
"Interesting. I do always try not to judge and never to generalise. One of my biggest disappointments since joining fab has been to find that people are just as quick to judge and condemn on here as they are in the ‘real’ world! Many seem to feel that what they do is ok but what others do (be it gangbangs, watersports, bdsm etc is wrong/perverted, slaggish etc. I did have illusions at first that fab would be some kind of liberal utopia! Silly me! "I know, right?! | |||
"I think we instinctively try to reduce something to it's simplest form in order to understand it, but in doing so we make it more complicated, discovering several shades of grey we then have to justify to ourselves. In can understand the logical benefits, it would be so much easier if everything was black/white yes/No on/off ect." It would. But life ain’t simple. Some people are though | |||
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"I think life is much easier if you see things in black or white. You can be absolutely sure that your decisions are correct, you don't need to consider other's (or your own) motives and you can be absolutely sure that you're doing the right thing. I understand that it's human nature to an extent and that our ancestors found it very useful. I sometimes think my life would be much easier if I just believed that what I saw in front of me was the true picture rather than trying to take into account the circumstances that had led to that point. "Wouldn’t it just? but.... | |||
"Interesting. I do always try not to judge and never to generalise. One of my biggest disappointments since joining fab has been to find that people are just as quick to judge and condemn on here as they are in the ‘real’ world! Many seem to feel that what they do is ok but what others do (be it gangbangs, watersports, bdsm etc is wrong/perverted, slaggish etc. I did have illusions at first that fab would be some kind of liberal utopia! Silly me! "Must admit, this was eye opening for us too  | |||
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"I think we instinctively try to reduce something to it's simplest form in order to understand it, but in doing so we make it more complicated, discovering several shades of grey we then have to justify to ourselves. In can understand the logical benefits, it would be so much easier if everything was black/white yes/No on/off ect. It would. But life ain’t simple. Some people are though "Life is only as simple as we make it. | |||
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"Survival instinct must dictate friend or foe but surely we have evolved further than that, looking at the state of the world this utopia people talk about isn’t far away but ultimately too far away as the education of humanity is based on war and struggle, we are also at the same time taught all the contradictory aspects of humanity and the world around us but then are told to be true and not contradict ourselves, black and white thinking won’t lead to a better place, open mindedness will " Open mindedness for the win | |||
"If people were constantly considering the grey areas nothing would ever get done. " I disagree. Considering the grey and asking questions doesn’t mean never taking action. | |||
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"If people were constantly considering the grey areas nothing would ever get done. I disagree. Considering the grey and asking questions doesn’t mean never taking action. " I find considering the grey sometimes means I talk myself out of things | |||
"If people were constantly considering the grey areas nothing would ever get done. I disagree. Considering the grey and asking questions doesn’t mean never taking action. I find considering the grey sometimes means I talk myself out of things "Talking yourself out of things isn’t always bad. Sounds like you’re ruminating and putting things off due to a lack of confidence or fear of the consequence, not merely seeking to see and hear opposing views..? But I could well be projecting! | |||
"Can you precis that for me please. My brain isn't working today and my eyes don't want to focus for more than a few seconds. Nuance and the grey area rocks best. "My whole brain is a grey area. I need things in black and white now; I can only process so many words at one time. | |||
"If people were constantly considering the grey areas nothing would ever get done. I disagree. Considering the grey and asking questions doesn’t mean never taking action. " It does for someone like me. I get lost in the fog. | |||
"Can you precis that for me please. My brain isn't working today and my eyes don't want to focus for more than a few seconds. Nuance and the grey area rocks best.
My whole brain is a grey area. I need things in black and white now; I can only process so many words at one time. "Noted
You. Me. Lib. Soon. Yes? | |||
"Can you precis that for me please. My brain isn't working today and my eyes don't want to focus for more than a few seconds. Nuance and the grey area rocks best.
My whole brain is a grey area. I need things in black and white now; I can only process so many words at one time.
Noted
You. Me. Lib. Soon. Yes? " | |||
"If people were constantly considering the grey areas nothing would ever get done. I disagree. Considering the grey and asking questions doesn’t mean never taking action. I find considering the grey sometimes means I talk myself out of things
Talking yourself out of things isn’t always bad.
Sounds like you’re ruminating and putting things off due to a lack of confidence or fear of the consequence, not merely seeking to see and hear opposing views..? But I could well be projecting! "Estella you are, as ever, bang on. A bad habit that drives husband up the wall | |||
"Interesting. I do always try not to judge and never to generalise. One of my biggest disappointments since joining fab has been to find that people are just as quick to judge and condemn on here as they are in the ‘real’ world! Many seem to feel that what they do is ok but what others do (be it gangbangs, watersports, bdsm etc is wrong/perverted, slaggish etc. I did have illusions at first that fab would be some kind of liberal utopia! Silly me! "So did we. As this journey has gone on, we have done what a few people do and garnered a little knowledge about playing, that are on the edge of our boundaries. It seems we will explore with the right people, some of these, but we have a set of core values that are non-negotiable, Mr. straight and Mrs. being bi-sexual. The upshot to this b&w issue for us though is, that Fab we believed would somehow would smooth the thoughts of acceptance of in want of a better word " niche" practices that is somebodies kink. Its Mr.speaking here btw I suppose to a degree, people we've met personally and moreover online it has been less judgmental, but not anything nearly as much as we'd thought it would be. This surprises us, particularly given the paranoia here, about the double lives people are engaged in with, in a world where people are generally scared of being outed for what most keyboard warriors can only dream of doing as they beat off to a moresome on thisismyfantasy. com | |||
"If people were constantly considering the grey areas nothing would ever get done. I disagree. Considering the grey and asking questions doesn’t mean never taking action. I find considering the grey sometimes means I talk myself out of things "Or into them? | |||
"If people were constantly considering the grey areas nothing would ever get done. I disagree. Considering the grey and asking questions doesn’t mean never taking action. I find considering the grey sometimes means I talk myself out of things
Talking yourself out of things isn’t always bad.
Sounds like you’re ruminating and putting things off due to a lack of confidence or fear of the consequence, not merely seeking to see and hear opposing views..? But I could well be projecting!
Estella you are, as ever, bang on. A bad habit that drives husband up the wall "
The grey area (for me) is merely the openness to not thinking you have all the answers, asking questions, hearing the different angles and awareness of your own bias that will colour how you see things. It doesn’t mean you’re wrong necessarily. But it might. | |||
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"Too long OR Not too long ?" So long | |||
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"Too long OR Not too long ? So long "As long as ....... | |||
"Who cares what anyone else thinks. Their opinion is merely theirs and matters not to anyone else. YAWN" You never care what anyone else thinks? | |||
"Who cares what anyone else thinks. Their opinion is merely theirs and matters not to anyone else. YAWN" Without others our existence lacks meaning of any kind. | |||
"Too long OR Not too long ? So long
As long as ....... "Putting the long in schlong. | |||
"If people were constantly considering the grey areas nothing would ever get done. I disagree. Considering the grey and asking questions doesn’t mean never taking action. I find considering the grey sometimes means I talk myself out of things
Talking yourself out of things isn’t always bad.
Sounds like you’re ruminating and putting things off due to a lack of confidence or fear of the consequence, not merely seeking to see and hear opposing views..? But I could well be projecting!
Estella you are, as ever, bang on. A bad habit that drives husband up the wall
The grey area (for me) is merely the openness to not thinking you have all the answers, asking questions, hearing the different angles and awareness of your own bias that will colour how you see things. It doesn’t mean you’re wrong necessarily. But it might. "Absolutely! The people who acknowledge that their opinion isn't the only one, will always better be placed accept new thinking on anything. Those same people are the ones who can turn a perceived threat into an opportunity and generally are more successful in life, or at least viewed as achievers | |||
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"There was a guy who invented a language called E prime which was English without the use of the word IS or any word that means tobe. using email to think or write is a way to stop using B&W language and start using model agnosticism." Email stops b&w thinking? Now this I have to hear... Please explain as I’m not really following. | |||
"Who cares what anyone else thinks. Their opinion is merely theirs and matters not to anyone else. YAWN You never care what anyone else thinks? " About me?? Nope not in the slightest . | |||
"Who cares what anyone else thinks. Their opinion is merely theirs and matters not to anyone else. YAWN You never care what anyone else thinks? About me?? Nope not in the slightest . " Ah but you didn’t reduce it to being only opinions about you in your initial post. I take it you do care about other people’s opinions then, just not when the subject is you. But happy to be corrected if you meant about all subjects. | |||
"So there is no B&W thinking. The author of this article has just advised of probably just a few the many different complexities of people categorising others and the ways people allow others into their groups. I don’t think it says there is no B&W thinking...? Simply, the article is an oxymoron. It is talking about B&W thinking, yet giving a vast number of examples of the supposed different ways that people think in B&W - so is contradictory by default. The article should be called Rainbow Thinking, as it's nowhere near B&W. The first line sets the stage for B&W thinking yet doesn't reflect on itself that this 'B&W thinking' is varied by degree. The next 11 paragraphs then examine B&W thought but only Hasson et al., 2001, on the last line offers any inference to it being detrimental. None advise that we don't actually do it (in many different degrees). I’m not actually following what you’re saying? " I guessed that from your first reply. | |||
"So there is no B&W thinking. The author of this article has just advised of probably just a few the many different complexities of people categorising others and the ways people allow others into their groups. I don’t think it says there is no B&W thinking...? Simply, the article is an oxymoron. It is talking about B&W thinking, yet giving a vast number of examples of the supposed different ways that people think in B&W - so is contradictory by default. The article should be called Rainbow Thinking, as it's nowhere near B&W. The first line sets the stage for B&W thinking yet doesn't reflect on itself that this 'B&W thinking' is varied by degree. The next 11 paragraphs then examine B&W thought but only Hasson et al., 2001, on the last line offers any inference to it being detrimental. None advise that we don't actually do it (in many different degrees). I’m not actually following what you’re saying? I guessed that from your first reply. " Ah. Fair enough. I’ll leave it that I disagree then. I don’t think the article contradicts itself. | |||
"There was a guy who invented a language called E prime which was English without the use of the word IS or any word that means tobe. using email to think or write is a way to stop using B&W language and start using model agnosticism. Email stops b&w thinking? Now this I have to hear... Please explain as I’m not really following. " Auto correct has struck again 
I meant E-Prime | |||
"There was a guy who invented a language called E prime which was English without the use of the word IS or any word that means tobe. using email to think or write is a way to stop using B&W language and start using model agnosticism. Email stops b&w thinking? Now this I have to hear... Please explain as I’m not really following. Auto correct has struck again
I meant E-Prime" | |||
"Who cares what anyone else thinks. Their opinion is merely theirs and matters not to anyone else. YAWN You never care what anyone else thinks? About me?? Nope not in the slightest . Ah but you didn’t reduce it to being only opinions about you in your initial post. I take it you do care about other people’s opinions then, just not when the subject is you. But happy to be corrected if you meant about all subjects. " I also don't care what anyone else thinks on any subject,as it is their thoughts and opinions which they are entitled to. If they think along the same lines as me that's ok and its bequally ok if they don't. So no I don't care what anyone thinks as they have the right to think exactly how they want to. | |||
"Who cares what anyone else thinks. Their opinion is merely theirs and matters not to anyone else. YAWN You never care what anyone else thinks? About me?? Nope not in the slightest . Ah but you didn’t reduce it to being only opinions about you in your initial post. I take it you do care about other people’s opinions then, just not when the subject is you. But happy to be corrected if you meant about all subjects. I also don't care what anyone else thinks on any subject,as it is their thoughts and opinions which they are entitled to. If they think along the same lines as me that's ok and its bequally ok if they don't. So no I don't care what anyone thinks as they have the right to think exactly how they want to. " Where’s that narcissism scale that was mentioned in the article?  | |||
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"Hand up I'm a total narcissist with psychopathic tendencies. Yet I opened my first private care home because I was disgusted at how elderly people,one being my nanna were being treated. I ensure now that a high level of care is administered. So I don't care about thoughts but I care strongly about actions" That’s good work you do | |||
On a more negative note and, on behalf of all the men of fab and of some of the ladies. We are very disappointed to have had our illusions shattered. You've ruined the image we all had of you just sitting around the house looking sexy, waiting to be fucked! Shame on you  | |||
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"By answering the question, "what are the costs and benefits" we risk only seeing in terms of black and white. Things that can be seen as a benefit by one person or social group can be seen as a cost to another. And in other cases what was a cost or a benefit at one point in time can be reversed due to the situation. I don't like that my mind makes these snap judgements at times, especially when that judgement is proved wrong and I invariably end up having to give my self a kick. Yet, we are all guilty of it on occasion. I think our instinctual ability for this is embedded deep in our minds, from a time that was less civilised, to the point of being more animal than human. It is part of our fight or flight reflex and it is that kind of black or white that has helped us to survive and evolve into what we are today. Although the world for most of us is a far more civilised place, the ability to see things as black or white is needed no less. The decisions we make may not be the difference between eating or being eaten but, it may be the difference between crashing our car or getting home safely. Regardless of our varying degrees of narcissism we all have a sense of our own importance and of what we are doing at the time as being more important than what other people are doing so, will often black or white their activity or situation so that we can concentrate on our own thing. Even if it's just sitting watching the box in the corner. It's like a way of conserving thought energy, the way a computer will go into sleep mode if the mouse or keyboard hasn't been used for a while. the screen is blank but there is a lot going on in the background as it diverts resources to other more important activities. Seeing things in black or white enables us to do the same thing, our minds are then able to get on with what's important to us. It's thought without thought/thinking without thinking. If we examined every little nuance surrounding every decision we made in a day we would soon overload or not be able to perform the task at hand. On the whole this way of looking at the world is still keeping us alive today. I think the important thing at times, is that we recognise that we are doing this and question and challenge ourselves and others when we are dealing with other people cultures or religions etc. Is a burglar or a drug addict bad...yes! Or are they just bad while they are robbing or taking drugs???? (Why do we invariably look to the bad or the negative traits for examples when we question things like this? As obviously there are as many shades of good?) When we stop over simplifying, we become aware that there are varying degrees of good and bad and many shades of black and white and we develop amongst other things, our ability to empathise with others and understand the world around us better with the end result of, hopefully making it a nicer place for us all to live in. However, we don't always have the time for this type of thinking in colour and, sadly some have no inclination for it whatsoever. I am no brain surgeon and consider myself as a person of mediocre intelligence but found your article very interesting, Thank you
On a more negative note and, on behalf of all the men of fab and of some of the ladies. We are very disappointed to have had our illusions shattered. You've ruined the image we all had of you just sitting around the house looking sexy, waiting to be fucked! Shame on you "Thanks for your input.
And I’m sure that’s not what everyone thinks of me (I know many on here who can’t stand me!!)
I know this possibly isn’t what you meant but I’d challenge this line remaining as it is:
“Is a burglar or a drug addict bad...yes!
Or are they just bad while they are robbing or taking drugs????”
A burglar may be breaking the law or committing an act that is bad but the grey area might be to understand the motivations, stressors and triggers that led to this behaviour and the ability to reform. I’m not suggesting the act is not bad, just for me it doesn’t automatically mean the person is. And same for drug addicts. | |||
". Also, aa general rule of thumb I like the general principle that if you can’t explain it simply you probably don’t understand it well enough. That often separates for me "Yes, I agree, it's something of a bee in my bonnet, professionally anyway. It's actually b/w to decide b/w thinking is bad. It depends......we use it all the time of necessity - should I turn left or right here, is this man approaching me in the dark alley friend or foe, is the spot I am about to place my foot safe or not....we need the ability to make sound, snap decisions. But at other times it would much benefit us to perceive all the subtle tones of grey and consider them carefully. I suspect the ability to know which to use at any given time is wisdom. | |||
"Narcissism is in the eye of the beholder. " I would dispute that, I would say it is a collection of character and behavioural traits that can be objectively defined. | |||
". Also, aa general rule of thumb I like the general principle that if you can’t explain it simply you probably don’t understand it well enough. That often separates for me
Yes, I agree, it's something of a bee in my bonnet, professionally anyway.
It's actually b/w to decide b/w thinking is bad. It depends......we use it all the time of necessity - should I turn left or right here, is this man approaching me in the dark alley friend or foe, is the spot I am about to place my foot safe or not....we need the ability to make sound, snap decisions.
But at other times it would much benefit us to perceive all the subtle tones of grey and consider them carefully.
I suspect the ability to know which to use at any given time is wisdom."I agree there’s a place for it all — and I think most have the wisdom to do so, I’m more for promoting the exploration of grey in terms of reflection and learning to challenge us to grow/leave comfort zones/learn other people’s experiences. Like communication, there’s a time for direct comms when it’s dangerous and life threatening rather than a consultative debate type comms etc. A debrief after to check, review and challenge thinking is useful though. | |||
"Narcissism is in the eye of the beholder. I would dispute that, I would say it is a collection of character and behavioural traits that can be objectively defined." Narcissism itself can be objectively defined its existence in others is very much subjectively identified. One man's narcissist is another's ambitious, driven, go getter. | |||
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"Narcissism is in the eye of the beholder. I would dispute that, I would say it is a collection of character and behavioural traits that can be objectively defined. Narcissism itself can be objectively defined its existence in others is very much subjectively identified. One man's narcissist is another's ambitious, driven, go getter. " Maybe, but the definition would exclude them in terms of the disorder IMO. Of course there is a spectrum, shades of grey...... | |||
". Also, aa general rule of thumb I like the general principle that if you can’t explain it simply you probably don’t understand it well enough. That often separates for me
Yes, I agree, it's something of a bee in my bonnet, professionally anyway.
It's actually b/w to decide b/w thinking is bad. It depends......we use it all the time of necessity - should I turn left or right here, is this man approaching me in the dark alley friend or foe, is the spot I am about to place my foot safe or not....we need the ability to make sound, snap decisions.
But at other times it would much benefit us to perceive all the subtle tones of grey and consider them carefully.
I suspect the ability to know which to use at any given time is wisdom.
I agree there’s a place for it all — and I think most have the wisdom to do so, I’m more for promoting the exploration of grey in terms of reflection and learning to challenge us to grow/leave comfort zones/learn other people’s experiences.
"Of course, as someone who loves to explore subtle tones I agree. | |||
"Narcissism is in the eye of the beholder. I would dispute that, I would say it is a collection of character and behavioural traits that can be objectively defined. Narcissism itself can be objectively defined its existence in others is very much subjectively identified. One man's narcissist is another's ambitious, driven, go getter. Maybe, but the definition would exclude them in terms of the disorder IMO. Of course there is a spectrum, shades of grey...... "Depends whether we are speaking about NPD or just narcissistic traits as in the OP. Everyone at sometime can display the latter. My point is whether that is how others interpret it. | |||
". Also, aa general rule of thumb I like the general principle that if you can’t explain it simply you probably don’t understand it well enough. That often separates for me
Yes, I agree, it's something of a bee in my bonnet, professionally anyway.
It's actually b/w to decide b/w thinking is bad. It depends......we use it all the time of necessity - should I turn left or right here, is this man approaching me in the dark alley friend or foe, is the spot I am about to place my foot safe or not....we need the ability to make sound, snap decisions.
But at other times it would much benefit us to perceive all the subtle tones of grey and consider them carefully.
I suspect the ability to know which to use at any given time is wisdom.
I agree there’s a place for it all — and I think most have the wisdom to do so, I’m more for promoting the exploration of grey in terms of reflection and learning to challenge us to grow/leave comfort zones/learn other people’s experiences.
Of course, as someone who loves to explore subtle tones I agree."Subtle tones — I like that phrase. In my head I’m now imagining layered clothing and autumnal colourings. | |||
"Really great article thank you for posting Estella " | |||
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"Quote "Also, as general rule of thumb I like the general principle that if you can’t explain it simply you probably don’t understand it well enough." Just because someone explains something convincingly, it doesn't mean it's factually true. It's an interesting article, but many of our fears and prejudices are introduced culturally and during our formative years. Fear or mistrust of something different doesn't automatically make you something....how you react to it does? " Why yes, that’s the difference between prejudice and discrimination. Everyone is prejudiced as we all pre-judge based on many factors. The grey area is to be open to thinking that challenges some of our b&w thinking — it doesn’t mean we don’t make a decision or that our gut is always wrong. The discrimination, if there is any, comes in the action. | |||
"Quote "Also, as general rule of thumb I like the general principle that if you can’t explain it simply you probably don’t understand it well enough." Just because someone explains something convincingly, it doesn't mean it's factually true. " I don’t think the above quote is saying that explaining something convincingly *is* saying it makes it factual though... | |||
"Quote "Also, as general rule of thumb I like the general principle that if you can’t explain it simply you probably don’t understand it well enough." Just because someone explains something convincingly, it doesn't mean it's factually true. It's an interesting article, but many of our fears and prejudices are introduced culturally and during our formative years. Fear or mistrust of something different doesn't automatically make you something....how you react to it does? Why yes, that’s the difference between prejudice and discrimination. Everyone is prejudiced as we all pre-judge based on many factors. The grey area is to be open to thinking that challenges some of our b&w thinking — it doesn’t mean we don’t make a decision or that our gut is always wrong. The discrimination, if there is any, comes in the action." Of course. But juxtaposing here; are we starting to live in a world where challenging popular opinion brands you discriminatory, simply by virtue of the fact you challenge? Challenging thoughts and opinions is healthy, but if you look at the way people are vilified these days on social media, I question if we're driving diversity of opinion underground, and promoting robotic yes people who wish to appease not progress. | |||
"Narcissism is in the eye of the beholder. I would dispute that, I would say it is a collection of character and behavioural traits that can be objectively defined. Narcissism itself can be objectively defined its existence in others is very much subjectively identified. One man's narcissist is another's ambitious, driven, go getter. Maybe, but the definition would exclude them in terms of the disorder IMO. Of course there is a spectrum, shades of grey......
Depends whether we are speaking about NPD or just narcissistic traits as in the OP. Everyone at sometime can display the latter. My point is whether that is how others interpret it."Yes, no argument there....just wanted to clarify. | |||
"Quote "Also, as general rule of thumb I like the general principle that if you can’t explain it simply you probably don’t understand it well enough." Just because someone explains something convincingly, it doesn't mean it's factually true. It's an interesting article, but many of our fears and prejudices are introduced culturally and during our formative years. Fear or mistrust of something different doesn't automatically make you something....how you react to it does? Why yes, that’s the difference between prejudice and discrimination. Everyone is prejudiced as we all pre-judge based on many factors. The grey area is to be open to thinking that challenges some of our b&w thinking — it doesn’t mean we don’t make a decision or that our gut is always wrong. The discrimination, if there is any, comes in the action. Of course. But juxtaposing here; are we starting to live in a world where challenging popular opinion brands you discriminatory, simply by virtue of the fact you challenge? Challenging thoughts and opinions is healthy, but if you look at the way people are vilified these days on social media, I question if we're driving diversity of opinion underground, and promoting robotic yes people who wish to appease not progress." There’s diversity of opinion and then there’s also those suggesting tolerance of those spouting intolerance. For me there’s a distinction. | |||
"By answering the question, "what are the costs and benefits" we risk only seeing in terms of black and white. Things that can be seen as a benefit by one person or social group can be seen as a cost to another. And in other cases what was a cost or a benefit at one point in time can be reversed due to the situation. I don't like that my mind makes these snap judgements at times, especially when that judgement is proved wrong and I invariably end up having to give my self a kick. Yet, we are all guilty of it on occasion. I think our instinctual ability for this is embedded deep in our minds, from a time that was less civilised, to the point of being more animal than human. It is part of our fight or flight reflex and it is that kind of black or white that has helped us to survive and evolve into what we are today. Although the world for most of us is a far more civilised place, the ability to see things as black or white is needed no less. The decisions we make may not be the difference between eating or being eaten but, it may be the difference between crashing our car or getting home safely. Regardless of our varying degrees of narcissism we all have a sense of our own importance and of what we are doing at the time as being more important than what other people are doing so, will often black or white their activity or situation so that we can concentrate on our own thing. Even if it's just sitting watching the box in the corner. It's like a way of conserving thought energy, the way a computer will go into sleep mode if the mouse or keyboard hasn't been used for a while. the screen is blank but there is a lot going on in the background as it diverts resources to other more important activities. Seeing things in black or white enables us to do the same thing, our minds are then able to get on with what's important to us. It's thought without thought/thinking without thinking. If we examined every little nuance surrounding every decision we made in a day we would soon overload or not be able to perform the task at hand. On the whole this way of looking at the world is still keeping us alive today. I think the important thing at times, is that we recognise that we are doing this and question and challenge ourselves and others when we are dealing with other people cultures or religions etc. Is a burglar or a drug addict bad...yes! Or are they just bad while they are robbing or taking drugs???? (Why do we invariably look to the bad or the negative traits for examples when we question things like this? As obviously there are as many shades of good?) When we stop over simplifying, we become aware that there are varying degrees of good and bad and many shades of black and white and we develop amongst other things, our ability to empathise with others and understand the world around us better with the end result of, hopefully making it a nicer place for us all to live in. However, we don't always have the time for this type of thinking in colour and, sadly some have no inclination for it whatsoever. I am no brain surgeon and consider myself as a person of mediocre intelligence but found your article very interesting, Thank you
On a more negative note and, on behalf of all the men of fab and of some of the ladies. We are very disappointed to have had our illusions shattered. You've ruined the image we all had of you just sitting around the house looking sexy, waiting to be fucked! Shame on you
Thanks for your input.
And I’m sure that’s not what everyone thinks of me (I know many on here who can’t stand me!!)
I know this possibly isn’t what you meant but I’d challenge this line remaining as it is:
“Is a burglar or a drug addict bad...yes!
Or are they just bad while they are robbing or taking drugs????”
A burglar may be breaking the law or committing an act that is bad but the grey area might be to understand the motivations, stressors and triggers that led to this behaviour and the ability to reform. I’m not suggesting the act is not bad, just for me it doesn’t automatically mean the person is. And same for drug addicts. "That is what I was trying to suggest and, the thought I was trying to stimulate by leaving a row of question marks. I'm just not quite as eloquent as you. The black and white answer for most is yes these people are bad but, the bad act doesn't make a person bad to the core. That kind of black and white thinking frustrates me and I find it detrimental to society as a whole. The amount of times you hear statements like "Fucking filthy junkies"! That's it, that's their judgment. No compassion or empathy or will to look further. This particular statement grates. My sister was a fucking filthy junkie and it killed her! She was also a lovely person, she tried to be a good mum, she was a talented musician etc etc. Her act of taking drugs was bad but she wasn't a bad person. A lot of people don't get that but it's refreshing that you do! I am sure there are lots of people that can stand you as well though! | |||
"By answering the question, "what are the costs and benefits" we risk only seeing in terms of black and white. Things that can be seen as a benefit by one person or social group can be seen as a cost to another. And in other cases what was a cost or a benefit at one point in time can be reversed due to the situation. I don't like that my mind makes these snap judgements at times, especially when that judgement is proved wrong and I invariably end up having to give my self a kick. Yet, we are all guilty of it on occasion. I think our instinctual ability for this is embedded deep in our minds, from a time that was less civilised, to the point of being more animal than human. It is part of our fight or flight reflex and it is that kind of black or white that has helped us to survive and evolve into what we are today. Although the world for most of us is a far more civilised place, the ability to see things as black or white is needed no less. The decisions we make may not be the difference between eating or being eaten but, it may be the difference between crashing our car or getting home safely. Regardless of our varying degrees of narcissism we all have a sense of our own importance and of what we are doing at the time as being more important than what other people are doing so, will often black or white their activity or situation so that we can concentrate on our own thing. Even if it's just sitting watching the box in the corner. It's like a way of conserving thought energy, the way a computer will go into sleep mode if the mouse or keyboard hasn't been used for a while. the screen is blank but there is a lot going on in the background as it diverts resources to other more important activities. Seeing things in black or white enables us to do the same thing, our minds are then able to get on with what's important to us. It's thought without thought/thinking without thinking. If we examined every little nuance surrounding every decision we made in a day we would soon overload or not be able to perform the task at hand. On the whole this way of looking at the world is still keeping us alive today. I think the important thing at times, is that we recognise that we are doing this and question and challenge ourselves and others when we are dealing with other people cultures or religions etc. Is a burglar or a drug addict bad...yes! Or are they just bad while they are robbing or taking drugs???? (Why do we invariably look to the bad or the negative traits for examples when we question things like this? As obviously there are as many shades of good?) When we stop over simplifying, we become aware that there are varying degrees of good and bad and many shades of black and white and we develop amongst other things, our ability to empathise with others and understand the world around us better with the end result of, hopefully making it a nicer place for us all to live in. However, we don't always have the time for this type of thinking in colour and, sadly some have no inclination for it whatsoever. I am no brain surgeon and consider myself as a person of mediocre intelligence but found your article very interesting, Thank you
On a more negative note and, on behalf of all the men of fab and of some of the ladies. We are very disappointed to have had our illusions shattered. You've ruined the image we all had of you just sitting around the house looking sexy, waiting to be fucked! Shame on you
Thanks for your input.
And I’m sure that’s not what everyone thinks of me (I know many on here who can’t stand me!!)
I know this possibly isn’t what you meant but I’d challenge this line remaining as it is:
“Is a burglar or a drug addict bad...yes!
Or are they just bad while they are robbing or taking drugs????”
A burglar may be breaking the law or committing an act that is bad but the grey area might be to understand the motivations, stressors and triggers that led to this behaviour and the ability to reform. I’m not suggesting the act is not bad, just for me it doesn’t automatically mean the person is. And same for drug addicts.
That is what I was trying to suggest and, the thought I was trying to stimulate by leaving a row of question marks. I'm just not quite as eloquent as you. The black and white answer for most is yes these people are bad but, the bad act doesn't make a person bad to the core. That kind of black and white thinking frustrates me and I find it detrimental to society as a whole. The amount of times you hear statements like "Fucking filthy junkies"! That's it, that's their judgment. No compassion or empathy or will to look further. This particular statement grates. My sister was a fucking filthy junkie and it killed her! She was also a lovely person, she tried to be a good mum, she was a talented musician etc etc. Her act of taking drugs was bad but she wasn't a bad person. A lot of people don't get that but it's refreshing that you do!
I am sure there are lots of people that can stand you as well though! "I find it helpful to discriminate between behaviour and identity. Good people sometimes do bad things, and even 'evil men' love their mothers. | |||
"Quote "Also, as general rule of thumb I like the general principle that if you can’t explain it simply you probably don’t understand it well enough." Just because someone explains something convincingly, it doesn't mean it's factually true. It's an interesting article, but many of our fears and prejudices are introduced culturally and during our formative years. Fear or mistrust of something different doesn't automatically make you something....how you react to it does? Why yes, that’s the difference between prejudice and discrimination. Everyone is prejudiced as we all pre-judge based on many factors. The grey area is to be open to thinking that challenges some of our b&w thinking — it doesn’t mean we don’t make a decision or that our gut is always wrong. The discrimination, if there is any, comes in the action. Of course. But juxtaposing here; are we starting to live in a world where challenging popular opinion brands you discriminatory, simply by virtue of the fact you challenge? Challenging thoughts and opinions is healthy, but if you look at the way people are vilified these days on social media, I question if we're driving diversity of opinion underground, and promoting robotic yes people who wish to appease not progress." I quite agree, there are some things I simply will not say on facebook, and that is a shame, because even the righteous need their bigotry challenging sometimes. | |||
"By answering the question, "what are the costs and benefits" we risk only seeing in terms of black and white. Things that can be seen as a benefit by one person or social group can be seen as a cost to another. And in other cases what was a cost or a benefit at one point in time can be reversed due to the situation. I don't like that my mind makes these snap judgements at times, especially when that judgement is proved wrong and I invariably end up having to give my self a kick. Yet, we are all guilty of it on occasion. I think our instinctual ability for this is embedded deep in our minds, from a time that was less civilised, to the point of being more animal than human. It is part of our fight or flight reflex and it is that kind of black or white that has helped us to survive and evolve into what we are today. Although the world for most of us is a far more civilised place, the ability to see things as black or white is needed no less. The decisions we make may not be the difference between eating or being eaten but, it may be the difference between crashing our car or getting home safely. Regardless of our varying degrees of narcissism we all have a sense of our own importance and of what we are doing at the time as being more important than what other people are doing so, will often black or white their activity or situation so that we can concentrate on our own thing. Even if it's just sitting watching the box in the corner. It's like a way of conserving thought energy, the way a computer will go into sleep mode if the mouse or keyboard hasn't been used for a while. the screen is blank but there is a lot going on in the background as it diverts resources to other more important activities. Seeing things in black or white enables us to do the same thing, our minds are then able to get on with what's important to us. It's thought without thought/thinking without thinking. If we examined every little nuance surrounding every decision we made in a day we would soon overload or not be able to perform the task at hand. On the whole this way of looking at the world is still keeping us alive today. I think the important thing at times, is that we recognise that we are doing this and question and challenge ourselves and others when we are dealing with other people cultures or religions etc. Is a burglar or a drug addict bad...yes! Or are they just bad while they are robbing or taking drugs???? (Why do we invariably look to the bad or the negative traits for examples when we question things like this? As obviously there are as many shades of good?) When we stop over simplifying, we become aware that there are varying degrees of good and bad and many shades of black and white and we develop amongst other things, our ability to empathise with others and understand the world around us better with the end result of, hopefully making it a nicer place for us all to live in. However, we don't always have the time for this type of thinking in colour and, sadly some have no inclination for it whatsoever. I am no brain surgeon and consider myself as a person of mediocre intelligence but found your article very interesting, Thank you
On a more negative note and, on behalf of all the men of fab and of some of the ladies. We are very disappointed to have had our illusions shattered. You've ruined the image we all had of you just sitting around the house looking sexy, waiting to be fucked! Shame on you
Thanks for your input.
And I’m sure that’s not what everyone thinks of me (I know many on here who can’t stand me!!)
I know this possibly isn’t what you meant but I’d challenge this line remaining as it is:
“Is a burglar or a drug addict bad...yes!
Or are they just bad while they are robbing or taking drugs????”
A burglar may be breaking the law or committing an act that is bad but the grey area might be to understand the motivations, stressors and triggers that led to this behaviour and the ability to reform. I’m not suggesting the act is not bad, just for me it doesn’t automatically mean the person is. And same for drug addicts.
That is what I was trying to suggest and, the thought I was trying to stimulate by leaving a row of question marks. I'm just not quite as eloquent as you. The black and white answer for most is yes these people are bad but, the bad act doesn't make a person bad to the core. That kind of black and white thinking frustrates me and I find it detrimental to society as a whole. The amount of times you hear statements like "Fucking filthy junkies"! That's it, that's their judgment. No compassion or empathy or will to look further. This particular statement grates. My sister was a fucking filthy junkie and it killed her! She was also a lovely person, she tried to be a good mum, she was a talented musician etc etc. Her act of taking drugs was bad but she wasn't a bad person. A lot of people don't get that but it's refreshing that you do!
I am sure there are lots of people that can stand you as well though!
I find it helpful to discriminate between behaviour and identity. Good people sometimes do bad things, and even 'evil men' love their mothers."It's the way the world goes round | |||
