FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Intent or action?
Intent or action?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Have you ever noticed that we tend to judge others by their actions, but that we judge ourselves by our intentions? "
Maybe it would be less destructive if we chose to see people’s intentions. This starts with asking people what they are.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Someone once told me I’d clearly studied too much psychology because I never get cross with peoples bad behaviour. I guess it’s the same sort of thing.
We’re programmed to see the best in ourselves and excuse/justify our own bad behaviour yet we bash others with alarming haste.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Someone once told me I’d clearly studied too much psychology because I never get cross with peoples bad behaviour. I guess it’s the same sort of thing.
We’re programmed to see the best in ourselves and excuse/justify our own bad behaviour yet we bash others with alarming haste.
"
Don't we indeed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Have you ever noticed that we tend to judge others by their actions, but that we judge ourselves by our intentions? "
Apparently I only see good intentions in other people’s actions.... go figure 
Actually, don’t . I’m just naive. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Have you ever noticed that we tend to judge others by their actions, but that we judge ourselves by our intentions?
Maybe it would be less destructive if we chose to see people’s intentions. This starts with asking people what they are.
"
Maybe people who get offended easily should consider thus approach of others? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Good post, interesting idea.
True often but then we can't really know another's intentions as we can only know what they choose to tell us. "
This is true. But surely asking rather than assuming we know is worthwhile? Sometimes we make assumptions that are wildly wrong and then find out what the actual situation was for someone and realise that a little grace by asking first might have made a world of difference.
If you choose not to believe their intent, guess that's your choice -- but I'm talking more in situations where your judgement of someone's actions took you in one direction and when you heard their intent it felt authentic (or you have no reason to distrust) and the judgement you'd previously made was way off the mark....if you see what I mean? We feel hard done by if someone was to judge us and jump to a conclusion about us without checking out our intent by asking "hey, you did or didn't do this -- it's made me think this, is that correct or I have missed something?" rather than "hey, you did or didn't do this -- you therefore meant this by it, I'm upset, angry....blah blah" -- do we expect it for ourselves but not offer it to others? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Good post, interesting idea.
True often but then we can't really know another's intentions as we can only know what they choose to tell us. "
We know our own intentions but we can't trust other people's intentions. They will often say whatever they think we want to hear.
For example, they say they want to meet up, yet actions show they are 'always busy'. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Have you ever noticed that we tend to judge others by their actions, but that we judge ourselves by our intentions?
Maybe it would be less destructive if we chose to see people’s intentions. This starts with asking people what they are.
Maybe people who get offended easily should consider thus approach of others?"
I agree. I try and always ask intent, personally. Did you mean something specific? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I tend to think that moral responsibility comes from intent. Therefore I try not to judge people strictly by their intentions.
However, I also think that someone's intent can only externally be judged by their actions (unless you ask them their intent, although whether this is reliable is a whole different matter). So actions can indicate intent, but my moral philosophy places blameworthiness primarily on intent. Im not entirely consistent yet, though - I'm working on it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Good post, interesting idea.
True often but then we can't really know another's intentions as we can only know what they choose to tell us.
We know our own intentions but we can't trust other people's intentions. They will often say whatever they think we want to hear.
For example, they say they want to meet up, yet actions show they are 'always busy'. "
By extrapolation are you suggesting we can't trust people? Like ever?   |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I tend to think that moral responsibility comes from intent. Therefore I try not to judge people strictly by their intentions.
However, I also think that someone's intent can only externally be judged by their actions (unless you ask them their intent, although whether this is reliable is a whole different matter). So actions can indicate intent, but my moral philosophy places blameworthiness primarily on intent. Im not entirely consistent yet, though - I'm working on it. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Good post, interesting idea.
True often but then we can't really know another's intentions as we can only know what they choose to tell us. "
Or what we choose to hear or read.
Often is the case when.in conversation we are formulating our next response without hearing what is actually being said...We assume what is said to suit what we want to hear.
Active listening is an art...and a learned skill which makes us better communicators. We do over look that we have two ears and one mouth for very good reasons other than the obvious too. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Good post, interesting idea.
True often but then we can't really know another's intentions as we can only know what they choose to tell us.
We know our own intentions but we can't trust other people's intentions. They will often say whatever they think we want to hear.
For example, they say they want to meet up, yet actions show they are 'always busy'.
By extrapolation are you suggesting we can't trust people? Like ever? "
We can trust people. The vast majority say what they mean and mean what they say.
Problems lead to ruminating-if a situation went to plan where intent led to action which backed up the intent, no one would think about it  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
They will often say whatever they think we want to hear. "
This is more obvious is certain cultures where avoidance of shame is of the utmost importance...and lying is an accepted form of discourse of which there is little or no shame attached to it. An example is India. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Has anything in particular triggered your post?"
No, and yes.
I'm always training around intent/communication and accountability through work -- the leap in owning accountability for impact we have on another regardless of intent (sorry hard to explain clearly on a short post) so it's an area I'm constantly debating/exploring. But also, it's interesting online here seeing and sometimes experiencing the miscommunication that goes on in this intent/action/comms kind of interaction and of course there's a myriad or times that I've fallen on either side of the fence in my own assumptions or been accused of something wildly different to my actuality but not afforded the courtesy of a check-in or question ahead of a decision by another person what my intent was -- and often in very surprising ways. It's interesting, but I say that slightly detached, as it's also hurtful -- but people choose what they want and seek their evidence to affirm it rightly or wrongly from it fitting another person's paradigm.
So no, and yes. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Good post, interesting idea.
True often but then we can't really know another's intentions as we can only know what they choose to tell us.
Or what we choose to hear or read.
Often is the case when.in conversation we are formulating our next response without hearing what is actually being said...We assume what is said to suit what we want to hear.
Active listening is an art...and a learned skill which makes us better communicators. We do over look that we have two ears and one mouth for very good reasons other than the obvious too."
Yes |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Has anything in particular triggered your post?
No, and yes.
I'm always training around intent/communication and accountability through work -- the leap in owning accountability for impact we have on another regardless of intent (sorry hard to explain clearly on a short post) so it's an area I'm constantly debating/exploring. But also, it's interesting online here seeing and sometimes experiencing the miscommunication that goes on in this intent/action/comms kind of interaction and of course there's a myriad or times that I've fallen on either side of the fence in my own assumptions or been accused of something wildly different to my actuality but not afforded the courtesy of a check-in or question ahead of a decision by another person what my intent was -- and often in very surprising ways. It's interesting, but I say that slightly detached, as it's also hurtful -- but people choose what they want and seek their evidence to affirm it rightly or wrongly from it fitting another person's paradigm.
So no, and yes. "
Sounds like you have a very interesting job!
Do you think there’s a difference between how quick people are to pass judgment in real life vs online?
I’d suggest (tentatively) we are all capable of being keyboard warriors when we know full well there will be no consequences to our actions
In real life, when faced with the very visceral reactions of another human being in front of us, we would (for the most part) modify our comments/judgements so as not to cause offence? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Have you ever noticed that we tend to judge others by their actions, but that we judge ourselves by our intentions?
Maybe it would be less destructive if we chose to see people’s intentions. This starts with asking people what they are.
"
Trying not to be too simplistic but if a person had good intentions but then carried out bad should we look upon them still as good?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Have you ever noticed that we tend to judge others by their actions, but that we judge ourselves by our intentions? "
Kind of inevitable unless we begin to understand the different motivational values that underpin each other’s intentions. Otherwise we filter what we see through our own motivational value system. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There’s also the perspective that some people are just arseholes. Their actions are arselike and they don’t deserve time spent worrying about why they’ve acted so  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Has anything in particular triggered your post?
No, and yes.
I'm always training around intent/communication and accountability through work -- the leap in owning accountability for impact we have on another regardless of intent (sorry hard to explain clearly on a short post) so it's an area I'm constantly debating/exploring. But also, it's interesting online here seeing and sometimes experiencing the miscommunication that goes on in this intent/action/comms kind of interaction and of course there's a myriad or times that I've fallen on either side of the fence in my own assumptions or been accused of something wildly different to my actuality but not afforded the courtesy of a check-in or question ahead of a decision by another person what my intent was -- and often in very surprising ways. It's interesting, but I say that slightly detached, as it's also hurtful -- but people choose what they want and seek their evidence to affirm it rightly or wrongly from it fitting another person's paradigm.
So no, and yes.
Sounds like you have a very interesting job!
Do you think there’s a difference between how quick people are to pass judgment in real life vs online?
I’d suggest (tentatively) we are all capable of being keyboard warriors when we know full well there will be no consequences to our actions
In real life, when faced with the very visceral reactions of another human being in front of us, we would (for the most part) modify our comments/judgements so as not to cause offence? "
Can still gear my dad say... "count ten, slowly"
It wasn't just about reflection, it gave one more options and with those options came empowerment. ..choices. Respond, continue to listen or walk away. Simply and suddenly one had more control over oneself too. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Has anything in particular triggered your post?
No, and yes.
I'm always training around intent/communication and accountability through work -- the leap in owning accountability for impact we have on another regardless of intent (sorry hard to explain clearly on a short post) so it's an area I'm constantly debating/exploring. But also, it's interesting online here seeing and sometimes experiencing the miscommunication that goes on in this intent/action/comms kind of interaction and of course there's a myriad or times that I've fallen on either side of the fence in my own assumptions or been accused of something wildly different to my actuality but not afforded the courtesy of a check-in or question ahead of a decision by another person what my intent was -- and often in very surprising ways. It's interesting, but I say that slightly detached, as it's also hurtful -- but people choose what they want and seek their evidence to affirm it rightly or wrongly from it fitting another person's paradigm.
So no, and yes.
Sounds like you have a very interesting job!
Do you think there’s a difference between how quick people are to pass judgment in real life vs online?
I’d suggest (tentatively) we are all capable of being keyboard warriors when we know full well there will be no consequences to our actions
In real life, when faced with the very visceral reactions of another human being in front of us, we would (for the most part) modify our comments/judgements so as not to cause offence? "
Can I sit on the fence a little on this too?
I don't think it's one or the other. People fly off the handle in person forgetting the consequences just as much as on here. Personally, (and I don't always get it right, I'm not perfect) online on a forum etc I am conscious of the permanence of my words so am considered in my intent and what I write. I will still get misinterpreted differently though (as one can be in speaking too) -- I don't say anything here I wouldn't feel comfortable to have permanently written and readable by people and that I wouldn't say face to face either. That's why I also challenge any written permanent posts that I find abhorrent (racist or so on) as I wouldn't want them left written without adding my voice to say I disagree or that I find it unacceptable. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Have you ever noticed that we tend to judge others by their actions, but that we judge ourselves by our intentions?
Maybe it would be less destructive if we chose to see people’s intentions. This starts with asking people what they are.
Trying not to be too simplistic but if a person had good intentions but then carried out bad should we look upon them still as good? "
That is too simplistic and misses the point. Who would suggest otherwise? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Good post, interesting idea.
True often but then we can't really know another's intentions as we can only know what they choose to tell us.
We know our own intentions but we can't trust other people's intentions. They will often say whatever they think we want to hear.
For example, they say they want to meet up, yet actions show they are 'always busy'.
By extrapolation are you suggesting we can't trust people? Like ever? "
No, I'm suggesting that *I* won't trust people unless their actions show me that I can.
Not can't - won't. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
They will often say whatever they think we want to hear.
This is more obvious is certain cultures where avoidance of shame is of the utmost importance...and lying is an accepted form of discourse of which there is little or no shame attached to it. An example is India."
It's also obvious on sex and dating sites. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"There’s also the perspective that some people are just arseholes. Their actions are arselike and they don’t deserve time spent worrying about why they’ve acted so "
Not disagreeing with that. I'm talking more about misunderstanding in "relationships or interactions" with people you didn't think that way about (or perhaps not till a misinterpretation of their action!) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Has anything in particular triggered your post?
No, and yes.
I'm always training around intent/communication and accountability through work -- the leap in owning accountability for impact we have on another regardless of intent (sorry hard to explain clearly on a short post) so it's an area I'm constantly debating/exploring. But also, it's interesting online here seeing and sometimes experiencing the miscommunication that goes on in this intent/action/comms kind of interaction and of course there's a myriad or times that I've fallen on either side of the fence in my own assumptions or been accused of something wildly different to my actuality but not afforded the courtesy of a check-in or question ahead of a decision by another person what my intent was -- and often in very surprising ways. It's interesting, but I say that slightly detached, as it's also hurtful -- but people choose what they want and seek their evidence to affirm it rightly or wrongly from it fitting another person's paradigm.
So no, and yes.
Sounds like you have a very interesting job!
Do you think there’s a difference between how quick people are to pass judgment in real life vs online?
I’d suggest (tentatively) we are all capable of being keyboard warriors when we know full well there will be no consequences to our actions
In real life, when faced with the very visceral reactions of another human being in front of us, we would (for the most part) modify our comments/judgements so as not to cause offence?
Can still gear my dad say... "count ten, slowly"
It wasn't just about reflection, it gave one more options and with those options came empowerment. ..choices. Respond, continue to listen or walk away. Simply and suddenly one had more control over oneself too."
That’s certainly something that doesn’t become truly clear immediately. I remember getting the same advice in my youth and thinking ‘if I walk away, they’ve won!’ But in time you do realise this is a very useful tool for settling ones own mind |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
They will often say whatever they think we want to hear.
This is more obvious is certain cultures where avoidance of shame is of the utmost importance...and lying is an accepted form of discourse of which there is little or no shame attached to it. An example is India.
It's also obvious on sex and dating sites. "
 |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Good post, interesting idea.
True often but then we can't really know another's intentions as we can only know what they choose to tell us.
We know our own intentions but we can't trust other people's intentions. They will often say whatever they think we want to hear.
For example, they say they want to meet up, yet actions show they are 'always busy'.
By extrapolation are you suggesting we can't trust people? Like ever?
No, I'm suggesting that *I* won't trust people unless their actions show me that I can.
Not can't - won't."
Gotcha |
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By *uxom redCouple
over a year ago
Shrewsbury |
"Someone once told me I’d clearly studied too much psychology because I never get cross with peoples bad behaviour. I guess it’s the same sort of thing.
We’re programmed to see the best in ourselves and excuse/justify our own bad behaviour yet we bash others with alarming haste.
"
My programming went wrong at some point then or my re programming then did.. I see my faults far too well |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There’s also the perspective that some people are just arseholes. Their actions are arselike and they don’t deserve time spent worrying about why they’ve acted so
Not disagreeing with that. I'm talking more about misunderstanding in "relationships or interactions" with people you didn't think that way about (or perhaps not till a misinterpretation of their action!) "
Communication is a dying art, moreso as communication methods become easier and more accessible to the masses.
With any interaction between two people you have to have misunderstandings because you’re never in each other’s minds to fully understand. Because you can only see/understand what the other allows you to, you’re always at their mercy so to speak.
Big communication hiccups often lead to revelations tho, so see it through and you’ll see the truth of the other person |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Someone once told me I’d clearly studied too much psychology because I never get cross with peoples bad behaviour. I guess it’s the same sort of thing.
We’re programmed to see the best in ourselves and excuse/justify our own bad behaviour yet we bash others with alarming haste.
My programming went wrong at some point then or my re programming then did.. I see my faults far too well "
That’s a whole different story totally fixable tho If you want to |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Someone once told me I’d clearly studied too much psychology because I never get cross with peoples bad behaviour. I guess it’s the same sort of thing.
We’re programmed to see the best in ourselves and excuse/justify our own bad behaviour yet we bash others with alarming haste.
My programming went wrong at some point then or my re programming then did.. I see my faults far too well
That’s a whole different story totally fixable tho If you want to "
|
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By *uxom redCouple
over a year ago
Shrewsbury |
"Someone once told me I’d clearly studied too much psychology because I never get cross with peoples bad behaviour. I guess it’s the same sort of thing.
We’re programmed to see the best in ourselves and excuse/justify our own bad behaviour yet we bash others with alarming haste.
My programming went wrong at some point then or my re programming then did.. I see my faults far too well
That’s a whole different story totally fixable tho If you want to "
Thanks, it's me my past has made me what I am and I can't change that I don't take responsibility for what others have done to me.
I embrace the fact that I have made my life my own now |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There’s also the perspective that some people are just arseholes. Their actions are arselike and they don’t deserve time spent worrying about why they’ve acted so
Not disagreeing with that. I'm talking more about misunderstanding in "relationships or interactions" with people you didn't think that way about (or perhaps not till a misinterpretation of their action!)
Communication is a dying art, moreso as communication methods become easier and more accessible to the masses.
With any interaction between two people you have to have misunderstandings because you’re never in each other’s minds to fully understand. Because you can only see/understand what the other allows you to, you’re always at their mercy so to speak.
Big communication hiccups often lead to revelations tho, so see it through and you’ll see the truth of the other person "
I very much agree with your last sentence! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There’s also the perspective that some people are just arseholes. Their actions are arselike and they don’t deserve time spent worrying about why they’ve acted so
Not disagreeing with that. I'm talking more about misunderstanding in "relationships or interactions" with people you didn't think that way about (or perhaps not till a misinterpretation of their action!)
Communication is a dying art, moreso as communication methods become easier and more accessible to the masses.
With any interaction between two people you have to have misunderstandings because you’re never in each other’s minds to fully understand. Because you can only see/understand what the other allows you to, you’re always at their mercy so to speak.
Big communication hiccups often lead to revelations tho, so see it through and you’ll see the truth of the other person "
I agree. In conflict we have the chance to find out what’s really important to each other. |
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That's deep!
The kinda thing I'd think up mid-meltdown & overthinking too much 
If we question everybodies intentions every time they do something that becomes paranoia in my experience.
When it comes to written conversations you cannot see the other persons facial expressions or hear their tone of voice, so you read it how you want to read it, the written word is the greatest form of (mis)communication.
When it comes to intentions, nature's basic survival instincts kick in, we may not wish to harm somebody by our actions but we ensure we ourselves don't get harmed. And when somebody does get hurt we then justify ourselves by explaining it was done with the best intentions. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That's deep!
The kinda thing I'd think up mid-meltdown & overthinking too much
If we question everybodies intentions every time they do something that becomes paranoia in my experience.
When it comes to written conversations you cannot see the other persons facial expressions or hear their tone of voice, so you read it how you want to read it, the written word is the greatest form of (mis)communication.
When it comes to intentions, nature's basic survival instincts kick in, we may not wish to harm somebody by our actions but we ensure we ourselves don't get harmed. And when somebody does get hurt we then justify ourselves by explaining it was done with the best intentions. "
Wise words mate |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Have you ever noticed that we tend to judge others by their actions, but that we judge ourselves by our intentions? "
If that were true I'd never leave the house. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Have you ever noticed that we tend to judge others by their actions, but that we judge ourselves by our intentions? "
Question is why do we judge at all..
Who are we to decide what or how someone acts |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"That's deep!
The kinda thing I'd think up mid-meltdown & overthinking too much
If we question everybodies intentions every time they do something that becomes paranoia in my experience. "
Sorry, I think you've misinterpreted my meaning (intent!!) there, I didn't mean question people's intent in terms of doubt everything...I meant rather, check-in with someone if their actions made you think there was ill-intent (and that was contrary to your usual expectations of someone) that actually you've understood their intent correctly before leaping to a conclusion, i.e. you might be supprised to discover you assumed wrong and then there doesn't have to be all the "shit". Does that come across more clearly? I'm possibly not checking in that everyone has understood me, or vice versa. Funny, eh? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"That's deep!
The kinda thing I'd think up mid-meltdown & overthinking too much
If we question everybodies intentions every time they do something that becomes paranoia in my experience.
When it comes to written conversations you cannot see the other persons facial expressions or hear their tone of voice, so you read it how you want to read it, the written word is the greatest form of (mis)communication.
When it comes to intentions, nature's basic survival instincts kick in, we may not wish to harm somebody by our actions but we ensure we ourselves don't get harmed. And when somebody does get hurt we then justify ourselves by explaining it was done with the best intentions.
Wise words mate "
People see what they choose to. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Have you ever noticed that we tend to judge others by their actions, but that we judge ourselves by our intentions?
If that were true I'd never leave the house."
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Have you ever noticed that we tend to judge others by their actions, but that we judge ourselves by our intentions?
Question is why do we judge at all..
Who are we to decide what or how someone acts"
Not judge as in decide wrong or right but judge as in assess interactions so as to decide how to respond -- very different and you couldn't do 'owt without the latter. Certainly not talking about being judgemental-judgemental. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Have you ever noticed that we tend to judge others by their actions, but that we judge ourselves by our intentions?
Question is why do we judge at all..
Who are we to decide what or how someone acts
Not judge as in decide wrong or right but judge as in assess interactions so as to decide how to respond -- very different and you couldn't do 'owt without the latter. Certainly not talking about being judgemental-judgemental."
I know i was just being silly.. Like Neil from the young ones..
Your original post is spot on |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can only observe actions but I always try to discern intent. "
this.. when we do something we have some idea of why we did it.. with others unless we ask we have no idea why.. And just see what they do... not the why.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Have you ever noticed that we tend to judge others by their actions, but that we judge ourselves by our intentions?
Question is why do we judge at all..
Who are we to decide what or how someone acts
Not judge as in decide wrong or right but judge as in assess interactions so as to decide how to respond -- very different and you couldn't do 'owt without the latter. Certainly not talking about being judgemental-judgemental.
I know i was just being silly.. Like Neil from the young ones..
Your original post is spot on"
No question is silly.
That in fact is the sub text of my entire post. Ask people, don't assume.
Assuming is an asses game.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I can only observe actions but I always try to discern intent. this.. when we do something we have some idea of why we did it.. with others unless we ask we have no idea why.. And just see what they do... not the why. "
Boom! Exactamundo! |
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"That's deep!
The kinda thing I'd think up mid-meltdown & overthinking too much
If we question everybodies intentions every time they do something that becomes paranoia in my experience.
Sorry, I think you've misinterpreted my meaning (intent!!) there, I didn't mean question people's intent in terms of doubt everything...I meant rather, check-in with someone if their actions made you think there was ill-intent (and that was contrary to your usual expectations of someone) that actually you've understood their intent correctly before leaping to a conclusion, i.e. you might be supprised to discover you assumed wrong and then there doesn't have to be all the "shit". Does that come across more clearly? I'm possibly not checking in that everyone has understood me, or vice versa. Funny, eh? "
That proves my point, I over thought about it and miscommunicated what you wrote. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"That's deep!
The kinda thing I'd think up mid-meltdown & overthinking too much
If we question everybodies intentions every time they do something that becomes paranoia in my experience.
Sorry, I think you've misinterpreted my meaning (intent!!) there, I didn't mean question people's intent in terms of doubt everything...I meant rather, check-in with someone if their actions made you think there was ill-intent (and that was contrary to your usual expectations of someone) that actually you've understood their intent correctly before leaping to a conclusion, i.e. you might be supprised to discover you assumed wrong and then there doesn't have to be all the "shit". Does that come across more clearly? I'm possibly not checking in that everyone has understood me, or vice versa. Funny, eh?
That proves my point, I over thought about it and miscommunicated what you wrote. "
But you made interesting tangental points. All good. |
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"That's deep!
The kinda thing I'd think up mid-meltdown & overthinking too much
If we question everybodies intentions every time they do something that becomes paranoia in my experience.
Sorry, I think you've misinterpreted my meaning (intent!!) there, I didn't mean question people's intent in terms of doubt everything...I meant rather, check-in with someone if their actions made you think there was ill-intent (and that was contrary to your usual expectations of someone) that actually you've understood their intent correctly before leaping to a conclusion, i.e. you might be supprised to discover you assumed wrong and then there doesn't have to be all the "shit". Does that come across more clearly? I'm possibly not checking in that everyone has understood me, or vice versa. Funny, eh?
That proves my point, I over thought about it and miscommunicated what you wrote.
But you made interesting tangental points. All good. "
I'm just glad it made sense |
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"I can only observe actions but I always try to discern intent. this.. when we do something we have some idea of why we did it.. with others unless we ask we have no idea why.. And just see what they do... not the why. "
But we can train ourselves to intuitively seek to discern. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can only observe actions but I always try to discern intent. this.. when we do something we have some idea of why we did it.. with others unless we ask we have no idea why.. And just see what they do... not the why.
But we can train ourselves to intuitively seek to discern."
I always wonder why.. especially when you maybe seeing actions of the final straw so to speak. Sometimes from the outside the actions may seem obsurd... yet once you know the why's you may think that you would have done the same.
I try not to judge others actions... |
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"I can only observe actions but I always try to discern intent. this.. when we do something we have some idea of why we did it.. with others unless we ask we have no idea why.. And just see what they do... not the why.
But we can train ourselves to intuitively seek to discern. I always wonder why.. especially when you maybe seeing actions of the final straw so to speak. Sometimes from the outside the actions may seem obsurd... yet once you know the why's you may think that you would have done the same.
I try not to judge others actions... "
Indeed, the same actions can have entirely different meaning according to intent. Horses are great at teaching people to appreciate that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's natural to judge, either consciously or subconsciously people's actions. Who are you to judge is the question that is pertinent and how you can justify any judgement in relation to your own actions.
Everyone has expectations and standards, most differ greatly.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It's natural to judge, either consciously or subconsciously people's actions. Who are you to judge is the question that is pertinent and how you can justify any judgement in relation to your own actions.
Everyone has expectations and standards, most differ greatly.
"
I'd repeat what I said to another poster re the who are you to judge reply -- just to clarify...
Not judge as in decide wrong or right but judge as in assess interactions so as to decide how to respond -- very different and you couldn't do 'owt without the latter. Certainly not talking about being judgemental-judgemental. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As a side note, if everyone stopped judging everyone else, would societal morals slide? Part of how we learn behaviour is from societies expectations of us. If we knew there was no form of judgment if we acted badly, would we all turn into complete arseholes? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's natural to judge, either consciously or subconsciously people's actions. Who are you to judge is the question that is pertinent and how you can justify any judgement in relation to your own actions.
Everyone has expectations and standards, most differ greatly.
"
I try not to judge. I try to actually understand them more. Also I think you can read peoples Intentions of you look hard enough. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"As a side note, if everyone stopped judging everyone else, would societal morals slide? Part of how we learn behaviour is from societies expectations of us. If we knew there was no form of judgment if we acted badly, would we all turn into complete arseholes? "
But that's the other aspect of judgement (not the judge how to respond aspect in referring to). Still, interesting side note |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It's natural to judge, either consciously or subconsciously people's actions. Who are you to judge is the question that is pertinent and how you can justify any judgement in relation to your own actions.
Everyone has expectations and standards, most differ greatly.
I try not to judge. I try to actually understand them more. Also I think you can read peoples Intentions of you look hard enough. "
Agreed, I'm not specifically meaning judge as in make decisions as to someone's validity/rightness or wrongness but judge as in weigh up how to respond and further interact. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Someone once told me I’d clearly studied too much psychology because I never get cross with peoples bad behaviour. I guess it’s the same sort of thing.
We’re programmed to see the best in ourselves and excuse/justify our own bad behaviour yet we bash others with alarming haste.
"
I think the conditioning starts in childhood. That childhood will then determine whether we see the best in ourselves or become our harshest critics. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Good post, interesting idea.
True often but then we can't really know another's intentions as we can only know what they choose to tell us.
This is true. But surely asking rather than assuming we know is worthwhile? Sometimes we make assumptions that are wildly wrong and then find out what the actual situation was for someone and realise that a little grace by asking first might have made a world of difference.
If you choose not to believe their intent, guess that's your choice -- but I'm talking more in situations where your judgement of someone's actions took you in one direction and when you heard their intent it felt authentic (or you have no reason to distrust) and the judgement you'd previously made was way off the mark....if you see what I mean? We feel hard done by if someone was to judge us and jump to a conclusion about us without checking out our intent by asking "hey, you did or didn't do this -- it's made me think this, is that correct or I have missed something?" rather than "hey, you did or didn't do this -- you therefore meant this by it, I'm upset, angry....blah blah" -- do we expect it for ourselves but not offer it to others? "
I wonder if we jump to conclusions based on our and their gender. I've been reading Men are from Mars...
Asking questions is an excellent idea but possibly comes from a self-awareness that you may interpret someone's intent or behaviour wrong.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As a side note, if everyone stopped judging everyone else, would societal morals slide? Part of how we learn behaviour is from societies expectations of us. If we knew there was no form of judgment if we acted badly, would we all turn into complete arseholes? "
We have to make judgement calls (assessments) to survive but we don't need to judge (condemn). Leave the latter to the ahem justice system  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As a side note, if everyone stopped judging everyone else, would societal morals slide? Part of how we learn behaviour is from societies expectations of us. If we knew there was no form of judgment if we acted badly, would we all turn into complete arseholes?
But that's the other aspect of judgement (not the judge how to respond aspect in referring to). Still, interesting side note "
I hate side notes as a rule but couldn’t keep that one in  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Someone once told me I’d clearly studied too much psychology because I never get cross with peoples bad behaviour. I guess it’s the same sort of thing.
We’re programmed to see the best in ourselves and excuse/justify our own bad behaviour yet we bash others with alarming haste.
I think the conditioning starts in childhood. That childhood will then determine whether we see the best in ourselves or become our harshest critics."
Absolutely spot on |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
I wonder if we jump to conclusions based on our and their gender. I've been reading Men are from Mars...
"
Perhaps. Perhaps. I'm very wary of prescribed doctrine that subscribes to a) a binary gender distinction and b) that genders as a collect behave in the same way. But fun ideas in books like that can give an amusing descriptor language allowing us to ask about intent and question someone and see if that's what they are feeling/thinking/doing/meaning using analogies -- but if it means you skip checking in with someone or if it means you tell someone that's what they are meaning without question then it's part of the problem, as I see it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I wonder if we jump to conclusions based on our and their gender. I've been reading Men are from Mars...
Perhaps. Perhaps. I'm very wary of prescribed doctrine that subscribes to a) a binary gender distinction and b) that genders as a collect behave in the same way. But fun ideas in books like that can give an amusing descriptor language allowing us to ask about intent and question someone and see if that's what they are feeling/thinking/doing/meaning using analogies -- but if it means you skip checking in with someone or if it means you tell someone that's what they are meaning without question then it's part of the problem, as I see it. "
Have you read it? It's a little outdated but has interesting theories from a qualified relationship counsellor, who encourages communication and seeing things from a different perspective. |
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"It's natural to judge, either consciously or subconsciously people's actions. Who are you to judge is the question that is pertinent and how you can justify any judgement in relation to your own actions.
Everyone has expectations and standards, most differ greatly.
I try not to judge. I try to actually understand them more. Also I think you can read peoples Intentions of you look hard enough. "
or if you look/listen in the right way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
...
-- but if it means you skip checking in with someone or if it means you tell someone that's what they are meaning without question then it's part of the problem, as I see it. "
I've started questioning instead of assuming. It's had very good results so far. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
I wonder if we jump to conclusions based on our and their gender. I've been reading Men are from Mars...
Perhaps. Perhaps. I'm very wary of prescribed doctrine that subscribes to a) a binary gender distinction and b) that genders as a collect behave in the same way. But fun ideas in books like that can give an amusing descriptor language allowing us to ask about intent and question someone and see if that's what they are feeling/thinking/doing/meaning using analogies -- but if it means you skip checking in with someone or if it means you tell someone that's what they are meaning without question then it's part of the problem, as I see it.
Have you read it? It's a little outdated but has interesting theories from a qualified relationship counsellor, who encourages communication and seeing things from a different perspective."
I have. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
...
-- but if it means you skip checking in with someone or if it means you tell someone that's what they are meaning without question then it's part of the problem, as I see it.
I've started questioning instead of assuming. It's had very good results so far. "
 |
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