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Any Recovering Catholics here?
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I was raised quite strictly Catholic, which I resisted and dumped by the end of my teen years. I haven't been in a church in 20+ years (with the exception of funerals, and sometimes going into ancient buildings to ogle the construction of some pretty amazing sites).
Every once in a while, the thought pops into my head though: Oh my god, I'm going to hell.
It's a Catholic thing, I think?
Anyone else have past religious issues they still occasionally struggle to overcome? |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
I can relate to that - I have kind of freed myself from Catholicism and would describe myself as agnostic today, however, you are quite right... every now and again the old habits die hard!
It shows the strong and lasting influence (early) childhood experience and teachings can have.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Same upbringing as OP. Rejected by time I'd left school.... never any thoughts on it.... reject the idea of any religion.
Left overs from a primitive, ignorant society wher religion was invented by the elite in order to control the masses..... nothing much changes really! |
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I decided at the age of ten I didn't believe in God and have never had any doubts there is no afterlife. Consequently I find it difficult to get into the mindset of people who do believe such things. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Same upbringing as OP. Rejected by time I'd left school.... never any thoughts on it.... reject the idea of any religion.
Left overs from a primitive, ignorant society wher religion was invented by the elite in order to control the masses..... nothing much changes really!"
Bit like the mods on here   |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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i had a catholic upbringing, loved my convent school, never had any bad experiences because of it, but i don't remember ever really believing in god, it just rituals that were part of life... the only thing i think it has left me with is a love of old churches..in past years, if ive been very sad, depressed etc, ive found nowhere as calming as an empty old church. to me they feel very peaceful and welcoming places. I also have an admiration of nuns..i was lucky enough to be taught by some very intelligent, academic women who really showed that women didnt need a man for anything. They were anything but pious and subservient! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If your conscience troubles you from time to time its a blessing and giving heed to it will lead you away from sorrow and uncertain times and you will obtain peace of mind....
Although the Catholic traditions are cluttered with many pagan practices it still has kept intact the greatest Truths given to mankind.... |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"i had a catholic upbringing, loved my convent school, never had any bad experiences because of it, but i don't remember ever really believing in god, it just rituals that were part of life... the only thing i think it has left me with is a love of old churches..in past years, if ive been very sad, depressed etc, ive found nowhere as calming as an empty old church. to me they feel very peaceful and welcoming places. I also have an admiration of nuns..i was lucky enough to be taught by some very intelligent, academic women who really showed that women didnt need a man for anything. They were anything but pious and subservient!"
I enjoyed reading your post for a number of reasons; for one you stand against "common consensus" but also you highlight something I can relate to, the love of old churches, their tranquility and the feeling of peace you can experience in there, especially when the choir is doing evensong. I dd not really connect my love of Gregorian chant and spiritual music with my catholic upbringing but on reflection, I am sure that it is rooted in listening to this kind of music at a very early age.
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Hell was a religious organizational construct to help to keep people under control, so I've no problems following my own lead on what's right. In the bible I don't think Jesus mentioned it, though it was written by people who had probably never met him, if he had been a real person. I'd be guided more by that more Christian direction than older stuff and church doctrines etc. |
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"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices. "
Go on I'll bite. How do you reconcile being on here with being a Catholic when Catholic doctrine is quite clear is that the only permitted form of sex is with one's spouse in a heterosexual marriage. |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"Hell was a religious organizational construct to help to keep people under control, so I've no problems following my own lead on what's right. In the bible I don't think Jesus mentioned it, though it was written by people who had probably never met him, if he had been a real person. I'd be guided more by that more Christian direction than older stuff and church doctrines etc. "
Do you think that it is more about (Christian) values than the institution of the catholic (or any other) religion?
I can go along with most Christian values (except that one ) as a foundation for a society living in peace. |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices. "
I did not see that post earlier - I completely respect your faith btw - I just cannot follow it. I also admire anybody with the courage to swim against common consensus and state they have a faith! |
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"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices.
I did not see that post earlier - I completely respect your faith btw - I just cannot follow it. I also admire anybody with the courage to swim against common consensus and state they have a faith! "
But how can you state you have a faith when your daily practice is against the tenets of that faith?
It's like saying I am a staunch conservative even though I always vote labour. |
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From the age of 4-7 i was brought up in a childrens home run by nuns, Julie Andrews they were not. I think being married to jesus makes you bitter, he's not very attentive and they never get to see him, makes them a bit tetchy...to say the very least.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i had a catholic upbringing, loved my convent school, never had any bad experiences because of it, but i don't remember ever really believing in god, it just rituals that were part of life... the only thing i think it has left me with is a love of old churches..in past years, if ive been very sad, depressed etc, ive found nowhere as calming as an empty old church. to me they feel very peaceful and welcoming places. I also have an admiration of nuns..i was lucky enough to be taught by some very intelligent, academic women who really showed that women didnt need a man for anything. They were anything but pious and subservient! I enjoyed reading your post for a number of reasons; for one you stand against "common consensus" but also you highlight something I can relate to, the love of old churches, their tranquility and the feeling of peace you can experience in there, especially when the choir is doing evensong. I dd not really connect my love of Gregorian chant and spiritual music with my catholic upbringing but on reflection, I am sure that it is rooted in listening to this kind of music at a very early age."
thanks for your comment.i agree a lot of the music etc stays with you..for me, as a child i loved all the incense, candles, decorating the church at easter etc, Also i think there are huge differences in catholicism from country to country..the Irish catholic church has had a notorious reputation for the harshness of the schools,whereas where i went was an originally swiss order, very much built on academic achievement, with a pretty relaxed attitude to children.
I have very fond memories of them, though clearly they should have tried a bit harder on the importance of chastity front! |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices.
I did not see that post earlier - I completely respect your faith btw - I just cannot follow it. I also admire anybody with the courage to swim against common consensus and state they have a faith!
But how can you state you have a faith when your daily practice is against the tenets of that faith?
It's like saying I am a staunch conservative even though I always vote labour. "
I don't think it is quite like that (and I do not follow a faith) - I am just saying in a society that more often than not mocks people who state their faith, it shows courage to say so.
Also, I think it is the nature of (any) faith that it does not follow logic, rhyme or reason - if you"know" or "can prove" you eliminate the need for "believing" if that makes sense? |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"i had a catholic upbringing, loved my convent school, never had any bad experiences because of it, but i don't remember ever really believing in god, it just rituals that were part of life... the only thing i think it has left me with is a love of old churches..in past years, if ive been very sad, depressed etc, ive found nowhere as calming as an empty old church. to me they feel very peaceful and welcoming places. I also have an admiration of nuns..i was lucky enough to be taught by some very intelligent, academic women who really showed that women didnt need a man for anything. They were anything but pious and subservient! I enjoyed reading your post for a number of reasons; for one you stand against "common consensus" but also you highlight something I can relate to, the love of old churches, their tranquility and the feeling of peace you can experience in there, especially when the choir is doing evensong. I dd not really connect my love of Gregorian chant and spiritual music with my catholic upbringing but on reflection, I am sure that it is rooted in listening to this kind of music at a very early age.
thanks for your comment.i agree a lot of the music etc stays with you..for me, as a child i loved all the incense, candles, decorating the church at easter etc, Also i think there are huge differences in catholicism from country to country..the Irish catholic church has had a notorious reputation for the harshness of the schools,whereas where i went was an originally swiss order, very much built on academic achievement, with a pretty relaxed attitude to children.
I have very fond memories of them, though clearly they should have tried a bit harder on the importance of chastity front!"
Agreed, also on the notion that Catholicism is practiced rather differently in different countries. |
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By *ammyDodgaMan
over a year ago
Nottingham/and everywhere my location says i am ;) |
Heathen here!!! Mother C of E, pops (Irish ) all catholic.. Trouble from day one. Mam refused my baptising.. Got lots of ill roast in hell when I'm older growing up... 
I learnt both sides of it and accept neither.. I wanna be warm when I die..? An you can't beat a good "roast"  |
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"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices.
I did not see that post earlier - I completely respect your faith btw - I just cannot follow it. I also admire anybody with the courage to swim against common consensus and state they have a faith!
But how can you state you have a faith when your daily practice is against the tenets of that faith?
It's like saying I am a staunch conservative even though I always vote labour.
I don't think it is quite like that (and I do not follow a faith) - I am just saying in a society that more often than not mocks people who state their faith, it shows courage to say so.
Also, I think it is the nature of (any) faith that it does not follow logic, rhyme or reason - if you"know" or "can prove" you eliminate the need for "believing" if that makes sense?"
Frankly I don't see it as a matter of praise that someone believes something about the nature of the universe for no good reason. We are hardly likely to tell our kids to not bother reading ading books or going to school or considering evidence. Just believe something for no reason whatsoever and call it "faith" |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices.
I did not see that post earlier - I completely respect your faith btw - I just cannot follow it. I also admire anybody with the courage to swim against common consensus and state they have a faith!
But how can you state you have a faith when your daily practice is against the tenets of that faith?
It's like saying I am a staunch conservative even though I always vote labour.
I don't think it is quite like that (and I do not follow a faith) - I am just saying in a society that more often than not mocks people who state their faith, it shows courage to say so.
Also, I think it is the nature of (any) faith that it does not follow logic, rhyme or reason - if you"know" or "can prove" you eliminate the need for "believing" if that makes sense?
Frankly I don't see it as a matter of praise that someone believes something about the nature of the universe for no good reason. We are hardly likely to tell our kids to not bother reading ading books or going to school or considering evidence. Just believe something for no reason whatsoever and call it "faith" "
I was not praising anyone for their faith if you look at my post. I was stating that in a society where "coming out as a Catholic" is often ridiculed, it takes courage to speak out.
Also, it is ultimately up to the individual what they believe in, be it a religion, science, santa or fabs |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"From the age of 4-7 i was brought up in a childrens home run by nuns, Julie Andrews they were not. I think being married to jesus makes you bitter, he's not very attentive and they never get to see him, makes them a bit tetchy...to say the very least. "
It seems your the bitter one, those nuns gave their time, talents, nursed fed and clothed you, no doubt many of them were old, infirm suffering many private afflictions of their own and this is how you repay their devotion both to you and their God whom inspired them to a life of service to souls such as yourself.... |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"Heathen here!!! Mother C of E, pops (Irish ) all catholic.. Trouble from day one. Mam refused my baptising.. Got lots of ill roast in hell when I'm older growing up...
I learnt both sides of it and accept neither.. I wanna be warm when I die..? An you can't beat a good "roast" "
I will probably meet you there |
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"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices.
I did not see that post earlier - I completely respect your faith btw - I just cannot follow it. I also admire anybody with the courage to swim against common consensus and state they have a faith!
But how can you state you have a faith when your daily practice is against the tenets of that faith?
It's like saying I am a staunch conservative even though I always vote labour.
I don't think it is quite like that (and I do not follow a faith) - I am just saying in a society that more often than not mocks people who state their faith, it shows courage to say so.
Also, I think it is the nature of (any) faith that it does not follow logic, rhyme or reason - if you"know" or "can prove" you eliminate the need for "believing" if that makes sense?
Frankly I don't see it as a matter of praise that someone believes something about the nature of the universe for no good reason. We are hardly likely to tell our kids to not bother reading ading books or going to school or considering evidence. Just believe something for no reason whatsoever and call it "faith"
I was not praising anyone for their faith if you look at my post. I was stating that in a society where "coming out as a Catholic" is often ridiculed, it takes courage to speak out.
Also, it is ultimately up to the individual what they believe in, be it a religion, science, santa or fabs "
Indeed it does take courage, but I think in the context that implied praise. After all, it would be pretty courageous of me to announce on here I had served a life sentence for murder, but I highly doubt your first reaction to that would be to say I had courage |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices.
I did not see that post earlier - I completely respect your faith btw - I just cannot follow it. I also admire anybody with the courage to swim against common consensus and state they have a faith!
?
But how can you state you have a faith when your daily practice is against the tenets of that faith?
It's like saying I am a staunch conservative even though I always vote labour.
I don't think it is quite like that (and I do not follow a faith) - I am just saying in a society that more often than not mocks people who state their faith, it shows courage to say so.
Also, I think it is the nature of (any) faith that it does not follow logic, rhyme or reason - if you"know" or "can prove" you eliminate the need for "believing" if that makes sense?
Frankly I don't see it as a matter of praise that someone believes something about the nature of the universe for no good reason. We are hardly likely to tell our kids to not bother reading ading books or going to school or considering evidence. Just believe something for no reason whatsoever and call it "faith"
I was not praising anyone for their faith if you look at my post. I was stating that in a society where "coming out as a Catholic" is often ridiculed, it takes courage to speak out.
Also, it is ultimately up to the individual what they believe in, be it a religion, science, santa or fabs
Indeed it does take courage, but I think in the context that implied praise. After all, it would be pretty courageous of me to announce on here I had served a life sentence for murder, but I highly doubt your first reaction to that would be to say I had courage "
I am not sure I would place association with a faith and admission to a capital crime on the same level - where the hell (pardon the pun) would that leave our membership of and affiliation with fabs ? |
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I went to a catholic school but my parents weren't practicing catholics which left me very conflicted. They never talked about religion at all apart from when i was 6 i overheard my mum say that she didn't believe in god. I believed up until age of about 14 and for many of those years i prayed every night for my mum not to be sent to hell, i was terrified for her. When i eventually lapsed it wasn't a gradual thing, i literally just thought one day "this is bollocks" and that was it, i was a non-believer. i've never questioned that decision since. I do have a major guilt complex but i'm not sure that's anything to do with my catholic education as the things i feel guilty about aren't necessarily counter to it's teachings. Maybe it is though, i don't really know.
Mr |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices.
Go on I'll bite. How do you reconcile being on here with being a Catholic when Catholic doctrine is quite clear is that the only permitted form of sex is with one's spouse in a heterosexual marriage. "
It does prick my conscience from time to time, yes. But I personally see my faith as being more a moral guideline. I do understand what the Church says about sex outside of wedlock (fornication, originally held to mean "Impure sexual practice" in old language) so I accept that a may be a sinner and that someday I may be required to accept the consequences of my decisions.
Also, following strictly, masturbation outside of wedlock is also a sin. |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"I went to a catholic school but my parents weren't practicing catholics which left me very conflicted. They never talked about religion at all apart from when i was 6 i overheard my mum say that she didn't believe in god. I believed up until age of about 14 and for many of those years i prayed every night for my mum not to be sent to hell, i was terrified for her. When i eventually lapsed it wasn't a gradual thing, i literally just thought one day "this is bollocks" and that was it, i was a non-believer. i've never questioned that decision since. I do have a major guilt complex but i'm not sure that's anything to do with my catholic education as the things i feel guilty about aren't necessarily counter to it's teachings. Maybe it is though, i don't really know.
Mr"
Absolutely understand that - it is one of the criticism of particularly the Catholic church that it inflicts that sense of guilt and shame for the purpose of subjugating people. You end up feeling guilty without even knowing why and it can be difficult to shake off, which is what the OP said. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices.
I did not see that post earlier - I completely respect your faith btw - I just cannot follow it. I also admire anybody with the courage to swim against common consensus and state they have a faith!
?
But how can you state you have a faith when your daily practice is against the tenets of that faith?
It's like saying I am a staunch conservative even though I always vote labour.
I don't think it is quite like that (and I do not follow a faith) - I am just saying in a society that more often than not mocks people who state their faith, it shows courage to say so.
Also, I think it is the nature of (any) faith that it does not follow logic, rhyme or reason - if you"know" or "can prove" you eliminate the need for "believing" if that makes sense?
Frankly I don't see it as a matter of praise that someone believes something about the nature of the universe for no good reason. We are hardly likely to tell our kids to not bother reading ading books or going to school or considering evidence. Just believe something for no reason whatsoever and call it "faith"
I was not praising anyone for their faith if you look at my post. I was stating that in a society where "coming out as a Catholic" is often ridiculed, it takes courage to speak out.
Also, it is ultimately up to the individual what they believe in, be it a religion, science, santa or fabs
Indeed it does take courage, but I think in the context that implied praise. After all, it would be pretty courageous of me to announce on here I had served a life sentence for murder, but I highly doubt your first reaction to that would be to say I had courage
I am not sure I would place association with a faith and admission to a capital crime on the same level - where the hell (pardon the pun) would that leave our membership of and affiliation with fabs ? "
I wouldn't say I'm courageous for expressing my faith (although thank you for the compliment), it's something I feel I need to stand up for and be proud of even if it provokes others as it's a big part of who I am. |
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"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices.
Go on I'll bite. How do you reconcile being on here with being a Catholic when Catholic doctrine is quite clear is that the only permitted form of sex is with one's spouse in a heterosexual marriage.
It does prick my conscience from time to time, yes. But I personally see my faith as being more a moral guideline. I do understand what the Church says about sex outside of wedlock (fornication, originally held to mean "Impure sexual practice" in old language) so I accept that a may be a sinner and that someday I may be required to accept the consequences of my decisions.
Also, following strictly, masturbation outside of wedlock is also a sin. "
Thanks for the considered response. I have another question. Given fornication is a mortal sin are you not extremely worried you will go to hell. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices.
I did not see that post earlier - I completely respect your faith btw - I just cannot follow it. I also admire anybody with the courage to swim against common consensus and state they have a faith!
?
But how can you state you have a faith when your daily practice is against the tenets of that faith?
It's like saying I am a staunch conservative even though I always vote labour.
I don't think it is quite like that (and I do not follow a faith) - I am just saying in a society that more often than not mocks people who state their faith, it shows courage to say so.
Also, I think it is the nature of (any) faith that it does not follow logic, rhyme or reason - if you"know" or "can prove" you eliminate the need for "believing" if that makes sense?
Frankly I don't see it as a matter of praise that someone believes something about the nature of the universe for no good reason. We are hardly likely to tell our kids to not bother reading ading books or going to school or considering evidence. Just believe something for no reason whatsoever and call it "faith"
I was not praising anyone for their faith if you look at my post. I was stating that in a society where "coming out as a Catholic" is often ridiculed, it takes courage to speak out.
Also, it is ultimately up to the individual what they believe in, be it a religion, science, santa or fabs
Indeed it does take courage, but I think in the context that implied praise. After all, it would be pretty courageous of me to announce on here I had served a life sentence for murder, but I highly doubt your first reaction to that would be to say I had courage
I am not sure I would place association with a faith and admission to a capital crime on the same level - where the hell (pardon the pun) would that leave our membership of and affiliation with fabs ?
I wouldn't say I'm courageous for expressing my faith (although thank you for the compliment), it's something I feel I need to stand up for and be proud of even if it provokes others as it's a big part of who I am."
Do you go to church every Sunday and on Holy Days of Obligation? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Same upbringing as OP. Rejected by time I'd left school.... never any thoughts on it.... reject the idea of any religion.
Left overs from a primitive, ignorant society wher religion was invented by the elite in order to control the masses..... nothing much changes really!"
Totally agree with this. |
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By *uciyassMan
over a year ago
sheffield |
"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices.
Go on I'll bite. How do you reconcile being on here with being a Catholic when Catholic doctrine is quite clear is that the only permitted form of sex is with one's spouse in a heterosexual marriage.
It does prick my conscience from time to time, yes. But I personally see my faith as being more a moral guideline. I do understand what the Church says about sex outside of wedlock (fornication, originally held to mean "Impure sexual practice" in old language) so I accept that a may be a sinner and that someday I may be required to accept the consequences of my decisions.
Also, following strictly, masturbation outside of wedlock is also a sin.
Thanks for the considered response. I have another question. Given fornication is a mortal sin are you not extremely worried you will go to hell. "
I was brought up catholic attended mass etc all through my teenage years. Went to catholic boarding school when I was 11 till 18 where everything changed which I won’t go into but rebelled instantly. And I’ve never gone back near a church other than for funerals or wedding where I just pass the time till I get out. Back in those days it was very strict upbringing , im Irish by the way, and if you said anything against the church to family etc it meant a lot of trouble was coming your way. The church also controlled a lot of the country’s choices on say abortion homosexuality and contraception. Thankfully in recent years it has changed a lot but unfortunatly my experience has had a long lasting effect and will never go away |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices.
Go on I'll bite. How do you reconcile being on here with being a Catholic when Catholic doctrine is quite clear is that the only permitted form of sex is with one's spouse in a heterosexual marriage.
It does prick my conscience from time to time, yes. But I personally see my faith as being more a moral guideline. I do understand what the Church says about sex outside of wedlock (fornication, originally held to mean "Impure sexual practice" in old language) so I accept that a may be a sinner and that someday I may be required to accept the consequences of my decisions.
Also, following strictly, masturbation outside of wedlock is also a sin.
Thanks for the considered response. I have another question. Given fornication is a mortal sin are you not extremely worried you will go to hell.
I was brought up catholic attended mass etc all through my teenage years. Went to catholic boarding school when I was 11 till 18 where everything changed which I won’t go into but rebelled instantly. And I’ve never gone back near a church other than for funerals or wedding where I just pass the time till I get out. Back in those days it was very strict upbringing , im Irish by the way, and if you said anything against the church to family etc it meant a lot of trouble was coming your way. The church also controlled a lot of the country’s choices on say abortion homosexuality and contraception. Thankfully in recent years it has changed a lot but unfortunatly my experience has had a long lasting effect and will never go away "
Do you think it was also used to prevent any sort of rebellion? |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices.
I did not see that post earlier - I completely respect your faith btw - I just cannot follow it. I also admire anybody with the courage to swim against common consensus and state they have a faith!
?
But how can you state you have a faith when your daily practice is against the tenets of that faith?
It's like saying I am a staunch conservative even though I always vote labour.
I don't think it is quite like that (and I do not follow a faith) - I am just saying in a society that more often than not mocks people who state their faith, it shows courage to say so.
Also, I think it is the nature of (any) faith that it does not follow logic, rhyme or reason - if you"know" or "can prove" you eliminate the need for "believing" if that makes sense?
Frankly I don't see it as a matter of praise that someone believes something about the nature of the universe for no good reason. We are hardly likely to tell our kids to not bother reading ading books or going to school or considering evidence. Just believe something for no reason whatsoever and call it "faith"
I was not praising anyone for their faith if you look at my post. I was stating that in a society where "coming out as a Catholic" is often ridiculed, it takes courage to speak out.
Also, it is ultimately up to the individual what they believe in, be it a religion, science, santa or fabs
Indeed it does take courage, but I think in the context that implied praise. After all, it would be pretty courageous of me to announce on here I had served a life sentence for murder, but I highly doubt your first reaction to that would be to say I had courage
I am not sure I would place association with a faith and admission to a capital crime on the same level - where the hell (pardon the pun) would that leave our membership of and affiliation with fabs ?
I wouldn't say I'm courageous for expressing my faith (although thank you for the compliment), it's something I feel I need to stand up for and be proud of even if it provokes others as it's a big part of who I am.
Do you go to church every Sunday and on Holy Days of Obligation?"
I haven't been in a while, I should do soon. But personally, I think there's more to being Christian than attending church. Ones actions and deeds are more important. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices.
Go on I'll bite. How do you reconcile being on here with being a Catholic when Catholic doctrine is quite clear is that the only permitted form of sex is with one's spouse in a heterosexual marriage.
It does prick my conscience from time to time, yes. But I personally see my faith as being more a moral guideline. I do understand what the Church says about sex outside of wedlock (fornication, originally held to mean "Impure sexual practice" in old language) so I accept that a may be a sinner and that someday I may be required to accept the consequences of my decisions.
Also, following strictly, masturbation outside of wedlock is also a sin.
Thanks for the considered response. I have another question. Given fornication is a mortal sin are you not extremely worried you will go to hell. "
I'm not no, although contradicting the Church does play on my conscience occasionally.
I do think that we have been given sex as something to be enjoyed and not taken for granted or abused. If sex is so bad, why did God give woman a clitoris? I did grow up abstaining until I felt otherwise. I do feel that this period helps me to better understand and respect others sexually. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices.
I did not see that post earlier - I completely respect your faith btw - I just cannot follow it. I also admire anybody with the courage to swim against common consensus and state they have a faith!
?
But how can you state you have a faith when your daily practice is against the tenets of that faith?
It's like saying I am a staunch conservative even though I always vote labour.
I don't think it is quite like that (and I do not follow a faith) - I am just saying in a society that more often than not mocks people who state their faith, it shows courage to say so.
Also, I think it is the nature of (any) faith that it does not follow logic, rhyme or reason - if you"know" or "can prove" you eliminate the need for "believing" if that makes sense?
Frankly I don't see it as a matter of praise that someone believes something about the nature of the universe for no good reason. We are hardly likely to tell our kids to not bother reading ading books or going to school or considering evidence. Just believe something for no reason whatsoever and call it "faith"
I was not praising anyone for their faith if you look at my post. I was stating that in a society where "coming out as a Catholic" is often ridiculed, it takes courage to speak out.
Also, it is ultimately up to the individual what they believe in, be it a religion, science, santa or fabs
Indeed it does take courage, but I think in the context that implied praise. After all, it would be pretty courageous of me to announce on here I had served a life sentence for murder, but I highly doubt your first reaction to that would be to say I had courage
I am not sure I would place association with a faith and admission to a capital crime on the same level - where the hell (pardon the pun) would that leave our membership of and affiliation with fabs ?
I wouldn't say I'm courageous for expressing my faith (although thank you for the compliment), it's something I feel I need to stand up for and be proud of even if it provokes others as it's a big part of who I am.
Do you go to church every Sunday and on Holy Days of Obligation?
I haven't been in a while, I should do soon. But personally, I think there's more to being Christian than attending church. Ones actions and deeds are more important."
I agree. I’m a Catholic, my mum is very involved with the Church. I don’t think there’s ever been a time when she hasn’t brought up God, prayer, religion when I see her.
I don’t go to church, I will at Christmas, but I feel I’m a lot less judgmental than her about people and I’ve had a go at her because of her views. |
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"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices.
Go on I'll bite. How do you reconcile being on here with being a Catholic when Catholic doctrine is quite clear is that the only permitted form of sex is with one's spouse in a heterosexual marriage.
It does prick my conscience from time to time, yes. But I personally see my faith as being more a moral guideline. I do understand what the Church says about sex outside of wedlock (fornication, originally held to mean "Impure sexual practice" in old language) so I accept that a may be a sinner and that someday I may be required to accept the consequences of my decisions.
Also, following strictly, masturbation outside of wedlock is also a sin.
Thanks for the considered response. I have another question. Given fornication is a mortal sin are you not extremely worried you will go to hell.
I'm not no, although contradicting the Church does play on my conscience occasionally.
I do think that we have been given sex as something to be enjoyed and not taken for granted or abused. If sex is so bad, why did God give woman a clitoris? I did grow up abstaining until I felt otherwise. I do feel that this period helps me to better understand and respect others sexually."
So you consider yourself a Catholic even though you disagree with some of the central beliefs of the Catholic Church.
I have always thought that for a lot of people being an adherent of a religion is like supporting a football team. You might think the team are shit and the manager hopeless but you are still part of them...
|
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"
Thanks for the considered response. I have another question. Given fornication is a mortal sin are you not extremely worried you will go to hell.
I'm not no, although contradicting the Church does play on my conscience occasionally.
I do think that we have been given sex as something to be enjoyed and not taken for granted or abused. If sex is so bad, why did God give woman a clitoris? I did grow up abstaining until I felt otherwise. I do feel that this period helps me to better understand and respect others sexually.
So you consider yourself a Catholic even though you disagree with some of the central beliefs of the Catholic Church.
I have always thought that for a lot of people being an adherent of a religion is like supporting a football team. You might think the team are shit and the manager hopeless but you are still part of them...
"
It's not so much that I disagree with the official view, I just follow my morality on such matters. I suppose I feel a similar way to someone who either disobeys their parents or does something that they know they'll disapprove of.
The football team analogy is an interesting one, I can see where you're coming from although it's slightly deeper than that. |
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"
Thanks for the considered response. I have another question. Given fornication is a mortal sin are you not extremely worried you will go to hell.
I'm not no, although contradicting the Church does play on my conscience occasionally.
I do think that we have been given sex as something to be enjoyed and not taken for granted or abused. If sex is so bad, why did God give woman a clitoris? I did grow up abstaining until I felt otherwise. I do feel that this period helps me to better understand and respect others sexually.
So you consider yourself a Catholic even though you disagree with some of the central beliefs of the Catholic Church.
I have always thought that for a lot of people being an adherent of a religion is like supporting a football team. You might think the team are shit and the manager hopeless but you are still part of them...
It's not so much that I disagree with the official view, I just follow my morality on such matters. I suppose I feel a similar way to someone who either disobeys their parents or does something that they know they'll disapprove of.
The football team analogy is an interesting one, I can see where you're coming from although it's slightly deeper than that."
Because I was brought up in a completely agnostic way I see a religion as involving a set of intellectual propositions that you either agree with or disagree with. Just as you wouldn't say you were a Marxist unless you agree with the central tenets of the philosophy of Karl Marx, you wouldn't say you were a Catholic unless you agreed with the central tenets of the Catholic Church.
I think for a lot of people with a religious upbringing its very different and much more a matter of personal identity. Thus you can "feel" you are a Catholic even though you differ radically with the church on matters of faith and morals just as I can "feel" myself a sheffield united supporter even though at any given time I might feel the team are rubbish.
That's the analogy : religion as a. Personal identity rather than an intellectual assent. |
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By *uciyassMan
over a year ago
sheffield |
"I'm still a Catholic, my faith hasn't left me just because of my choices.
Go on I'll bite. How do you reconcile being on here with being a Catholic when Catholic doctrine is quite clear is that the only permitted form of sex is with one's spouse in a heterosexual marriage.
It does prick my conscience from time to time, yes. But I personally see my faith as being more a moral guideline. I do understand what the Church says about sex outside of wedlock (fornication, originally held to mean "Impure sexual practice" in old language) so I accept that a may be a sinner and that someday I may be required to accept the consequences of my decisions.
Also, following strictly, masturbation outside of wedlock is also a sin.
Thanks for the considered response. I have another question. Given fornication is a mortal sin are you not extremely worried you will go to hell.
I was brought up catholic attended mass etc all through my teenage years. Went to catholic boarding school when I was 11 till 18 where everything changed which I won’t go into but rebelled instantly. And I’ve never gone back near a church other than for funerals or wedding where I just pass the time till I get out. Back in those days it was very strict upbringing , im Irish by the way, and if you said anything against the church to family etc it meant a lot of trouble was coming your way. The church also controlled a lot of the country’s choices on say abortion homosexuality and contraception. Thankfully in recent years it has changed a lot but unfortunatly my experience has had a long lasting effect and will never go away
Do you think it was also used to prevent any sort of rebellion? "
It was more about control and they did control |
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"From the age of 4-7 i was brought up in a childrens home run by nuns, Julie Andrews they were not. I think being married to jesus makes you bitter, he's not very attentive and they never get to see him, makes them a bit tetchy...to say the very least.
It seems your the bitter one, those nuns gave their time, talents, nursed fed and clothed you, no doubt many of them were old, infirm suffering many private afflictions of their own and this is how you repay their devotion both to you and their God whom inspired them to a life of service to souls such as yourself...."
You ever meet these Nuns?
I still have the scars from the beatings I took |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"
Thanks for the considered response. I have another question. Given fornication is a mortal sin are you not extremely worried you will go to hell.
I'm not no, although contradicting the Church does play on my conscience occasionally.
I do think that we have been given sex as something to be enjoyed and not taken for granted or abused. If sex is so bad, why did God give woman a clitoris? I did grow up abstaining until I felt otherwise. I do feel that this period helps me to better understand and respect others sexually.
So you consider yourself a Catholic even though you disagree with some of the central beliefs of the Catholic Church.
I have always thought that for a lot of people being an adherent of a religion is like supporting a football team. You might think the team are shit and the manager hopeless but you are still part of them...
It's not so much that I disagree with the official view, I just follow my morality on such matters. I suppose I feel a similar way to someone who either disobeys their parents or does something that they know they'll disapprove of.
The football team analogy is an interesting one, I can see where you're coming from although it's slightly deeper than that.
Because I was brought up in a completely agnostic way I see a religion as involving a set of intellectual propositions that you either agree with or disagree with. Just as you wouldn't say you were a Marxist unless you agree with the central tenets of the philosophy of Karl Marx, you wouldn't say you were a Catholic unless you agreed with the central tenets of the Catholic Church.
I think for a lot of people with a religious upbringing its very different and much more a matter of personal identity. Thus you can "feel" you are a Catholic even though you differ radically with the church on matters of faith and morals just as I can "feel" myself a sheffield united supporter even though at any given time I might feel the team are rubbish.
That's the analogy : religion as a. Personal identity rather than an intellectual assent. "
I think it has Gotten more that way over time. Bear in mind that that the Bible and the core concepts of Christianity were laid down centuries ago when life was very different. For example marriage would have been between teenagers so it was realistic to marry as virgins. Fast forward to today and you can see why so many Christians don't abstain until matrimony. |
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"
Thanks for the considered response. I have another question. Given fornication is a mortal sin are you not extremely worried you will go to hell.
I'm not no, although contradicting the Church does play on my conscience occasionally.
I do think that we have been given sex as something to be enjoyed and not taken for granted or abused. If sex is so bad, why did God give woman a clitoris? I did grow up abstaining until I felt otherwise. I do feel that this period helps me to better understand and respect others sexually.
So you consider yourself a Catholic even though you disagree with some of the central beliefs of the Catholic Church.
I have always thought that for a lot of people being an adherent of a religion is like supporting a football team. You might think the team are shit and the manager hopeless but you are still part of them...
It's not so much that I disagree with the official view, I just follow my morality on such matters. I suppose I feel a similar way to someone who either disobeys their parents or does something that they know they'll disapprove of.
The football team analogy is an interesting one, I can see where you're coming from although it's slightly deeper than that.
Because I was brought up in a completely agnostic way I see a religion as involving a set of intellectual propositions that you either agree with or disagree with. Just as you wouldn't say you were a Marxist unless you agree with the central tenets of the philosophy of Karl Marx, you wouldn't say you were a Catholic unless you agreed with the central tenets of the Catholic Church.
I think for a lot of people with a religious upbringing its very different and much more a matter of personal identity. Thus you can "feel" you are a Catholic even though you differ radically with the church on matters of faith and morals just as I can "feel" myself a sheffield united supporter even though at any given time I might feel the team are rubbish.
That's the analogy : religion as a. Personal identity rather than an intellectual assent.
I think it has Gotten more that way over time. Bear in mind that that the Bible and the core concepts of Christianity were laid down centuries ago when life was very different. For example marriage would have been between teenagers so it was realistic to marry as virgins. Fast forward to today and you can see why so many Christians don't abstain until matrimony."
Indeed. That's one of the central argument against religion as far as I am concerned. It purports to arrive from an omniscient being but it's patently obvious that it is a product of its time and place and is based on the knowledge and social arrangements available in a particular time and place.
I can see why people have a desire to believe but I really find it difficult to understand how anyone can think about religion and accept it as true. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
If you want Catholicism in its rawest state watch EWTN channel 589 on Sky. My mother watches it religiously (sorry), and I always have to check my phone calendar to see what century we are in.
|
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"
Thanks for the considered response. I have another question. Given fornication is a mortal sin are you not extremely worried you will go to hell.
I'm not no, although contradicting the Church does play on my conscience occasionally.
I do think that we have been given sex as something to be enjoyed and not taken for granted or abused. If sex is so bad, why did God give woman a clitoris? I did grow up abstaining until I felt otherwise. I do feel that this period helps me to better understand and respect others sexually.
So you consider yourself a Catholic even though you disagree with some of the central beliefs of the Catholic Church.
I have always thought that for a lot of people being an adherent of a religion is like supporting a football team. You might think the team are shit and the manager hopeless but you are still part of them...
It's not so much that I disagree with the official view, I just follow my morality on such matters. I suppose I feel a similar way to someone who either disobeys their parents or does something that they know they'll disapprove of.
The football team analogy is an interesting one, I can see where you're coming from although it's slightly deeper than that.
Because I was brought up in a completely agnostic way I see a religion as involving a set of intellectual propositions that you either agree with or disagree with. Just as you wouldn't say you were a Marxist unless you agree with the central tenets of the philosophy of Karl Marx, you wouldn't say you were a Catholic unless you agreed with the central tenets of the Catholic Church.
I think for a lot of people with a religious upbringing its very different and much more a matter of personal identity. Thus you can "feel" you are a Catholic even though you differ radically with the church on matters of faith and morals just as I can "feel" myself a sheffield united supporter even though at any given time I might feel the team are rubbish.
That's the analogy : religion as a. Personal identity rather than an intellectual assent.
I think it has Gotten more that way over time. Bear in mind that that the Bible and the core concepts of Christianity were laid down centuries ago when life was very different. For example marriage would have been between teenagers so it was realistic to marry as virgins. Fast forward to today and you can see why so many Christians don't abstain until matrimony.
Indeed. That's one of the central argument against religion as far as I am concerned. It purports to arrive from an omniscient being but it's patently obvious that it is a product of its time and place and is based on the knowledge and social arrangements available in a particular time and place.
I can see why people have a desire to believe but I really find it difficult to understand how anyone can think about religion and accept it as true. "
The central concepts of Christianity are eternal And prevalent thru society (ie don't kill or steal, love your parents, forgive others, look after those less fortunate etc)
It's Just then whether you believe in an omnipotent being or not. |
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"
Thanks for the considered response. I have another question. Given fornication is a mortal sin are you not extremely worried you will go to hell.
I'm not no, although contradicting the Church does play on my conscience occasionally.
I do think that we have been given sex as something to be enjoyed and not taken for granted or abused. If sex is so bad, why did God give woman a clitoris? I did grow up abstaining until I felt otherwise. I do feel that this period helps me to better understand and respect others sexually.
So you consider yourself a Catholic even though you disagree with some of the central beliefs of the Catholic Church.
I have always thought that for a lot of people being an adherent of a religion is like supporting a football team. You might think the team are shit and the manager hopeless but you are still part of them...
It's not so much that I disagree with the official view, I just follow my morality on such matters. I suppose I feel a similar way to someone who either disobeys their parents or does something that they know they'll disapprove of.
The football team analogy is an interesting one, I can see where you're coming from although it's slightly deeper than that.
Because I was brought up in a completely agnostic way I see a religion as involving a set of intellectual propositions that you either agree with or disagree with. Just as you wouldn't say you were a Marxist unless you agree with the central tenets of the philosophy of Karl Marx, you wouldn't say you were a Catholic unless you agreed with the central tenets of the Catholic Church.
I think for a lot of people with a religious upbringing its very different and much more a matter of personal identity. Thus you can "feel" you are a Catholic even though you differ radically with the church on matters of faith and morals just as I can "feel" myself a sheffield united supporter even though at any given time I might feel the team are rubbish.
That's the analogy : religion as a. Personal identity rather than an intellectual assent.
I think it has Gotten more that way over time. Bear in mind that that the Bible and the core concepts of Christianity were laid down centuries ago when life was very different. For example marriage would have been between teenagers so it was realistic to marry as virgins. Fast forward to today and you can see why so many Christians don't abstain until matrimony.
Indeed. That's one of the central argument against religion as far as I am concerned. It purports to arrive from an omniscient being but it's patently obvious that it is a product of its time and place and is based on the knowledge and social arrangements available in a particular time and place.
I can see why people have a desire to believe but I really find it difficult to understand how anyone can think about religion and accept it as true.
The central concepts of Christianity are eternal And prevalent thru society (ie don't kill or steal, love your parents, forgive others, look after those less fortunate etc)
It's Just then whether you believe in an omnipotent being or not."
But those precepts are also common to pretty much every society so there's nothing particularly Christian about them. |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"
The central concepts of Christianity are eternal And prevalent thru society (ie don't kill or steal, love your parents, forgive others, look after those less fortunate etc)
It's Just then whether you believe in an omnipotent being or not."
Indeed, these values (not unique to Catholicism) form a natural value basis for any living community (society) and their adherence and the punishment for non-compliance (whichever shape that takes place) is designed to maintain life in that community.
If there were not such values/ laws/ rules we would have anarchy.
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"
The central concepts of Christianity are eternal And prevalent thru society (ie don't kill or steal, love your parents, forgive others, look after those less fortunate etc)
It's Just then whether you believe in an omnipotent being or not.Indeed, these values (not unique to Catholicism) form a natural value basis for any living community (society) and their adherence and the punishment for non-compliance (whichever shape that takes place) is designed to maintain life in that community.
If there were not such values/ laws/ rules we would have anarchy.
"
You both are right, they're not unique to Christianity but many societies did grow from Christian roots. The core beliefs of quite a few religions are actually quite similar. |
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I come from an Irish Catholic background and for years attended mass. I was an alter boy. Though I do not attend anywhere as much as I used to. I still find comfort in my faith. Albeit I continually fail in being a good Catholic.As alter boys we used to get paid for weddings and funerals which was another attraction.Everybody will have there own views and sadly the church attendances are down and these lovely buildings are being closed. I do think that second and third generation Irish certainly in Manchester just dont attend anymore or very infrequently like myself. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I wasn't bought up strictly catholic but enough to cloud my early views on sex and marriage. Especially masturbation, it's something even now I struggle with. But yes I still get my conscience pricked occasionally x |
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By *ammyDodgaMan
over a year ago
Nottingham/and everywhere my location says i am ;) |
"Heathen here!!! Mother C of E, pops (Irish ) all catholic.. Trouble from day one. Mam refused my baptising.. Got lots of ill roast in hell when I'm older growing up...
I learnt both sides of it and accept neither.. I wanna be warm when I die..? An you can't beat a good "roast" I will probably meet you there "
Waves and wonders if you want to doing some warmer pre getting there |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Catholicism is a an illusion portrayed but those who live in a fantasy world whose followers are mere bystanders in one of the biggest hoaxes in history.
I bailed out at 14 and never returned and never would! |
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"From the age of 4-7 i was brought up in a childrens home run by nuns, Julie Andrews they were not. I think being married to jesus makes you bitter, he's not very attentive and they never get to see him, makes them a bit tetchy...to say the very least.
It seems your the bitter one, those nuns gave their time, talents, nursed fed and clothed you, no doubt many of them were old, infirm suffering many private afflictions of their own and this is how you repay their devotion both to you and their God whom inspired them to a life of service to souls such as yourself...."
This was a joke reply right? |
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"I come from an Irish Catholic background and for years attended mass. I was an alter boy. Though I do not attend anywhere as much as I used to. I still find comfort in my faith. Albeit I continually fail in being a good Catholic.As alter boys we used to get paid for weddings and funerals which was another attraction.Everybody will have there own views and sadly the church attendances are down and these lovely buildings are being closed. I do think that second and third generation Irish certainly in Manchester just dont attend anymore or very infrequently like myself. "
Similar thing in coventry. All my mates (all 2nd/3rd generation irish) attended mass when we were kids, don't think one of them goes with their children now though.
Mr |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Thanks for the considered response. I have another question. Given fornication is a mortal sin are you not extremely worried you will go to hell.
I'm not no, although contradicting the Church does play on my conscience occasionally.
I do think that we have been given sex as something to be enjoyed and not taken for granted or abused. If sex is so bad, why did God give woman a clitoris? I did grow up abstaining until I felt otherwise. I do feel that this period helps me to better understand and respect others sexually.
So you consider yourself a Catholic even though you disagree with some of the central beliefs of the Catholic Church.
I have always thought that for a lot of people being an adherent of a religion is like supporting a football team. You might think the team are shit and the manager hopeless but you are still part of them...
It's not so much that I disagree with the official view, I just follow my morality on such matters. I suppose I feel a similar way to someone who either disobeys their parents or does something that they know they'll disapprove of.
The football team analogy is an interesting one, I can see where you're coming from although it's slightly deeper than that.
Because I was brought up in a completely agnostic way I see a religion as involving a set of intellectual propositions that you either agree with or disagree with. Just as you wouldn't say you were a Marxist unless you agree with the central tenets of the philosophy of Karl Marx, you wouldn't say you were a Catholic unless you agreed with the central tenets of the Catholic Church.
I think for a lot of people with a religious upbringing its very different and much more a matter of personal identity. Thus you can "feel" you are a Catholic even though you differ radically with the church on matters of faith and morals just as I can "feel" myself a sheffield united supporter even though at any given time I might feel the team are rubbish.
That's the analogy : religion as a. Personal identity rather than an intellectual assent.
I think it has Gotten more that way over time. Bear in mind that that the Bible and the core concepts of Christianity were laid down centuries ago when life was very different. For example marriage would have been between teenagers so it was realistic to marry as virgins. Fast forward to today and you can see why so many Christians don't abstain until matrimony.
Indeed. That's one of the central argument against religion as far as I am concerned. It purports to arrive from an omniscient being but it's patently obvious that it is a product of its time and place and is based on the knowledge and social arrangements available in a particular time and place.
I can see why people have a desire to believe but I really find it difficult to understand how anyone can think about religion and accept it as true.
The central concepts of Christianity are eternal And prevalent thru society (ie don't kill or steal, love your parents, forgive others, look after those less fortunate etc)
It's Just then whether you believe in an omnipotent being or not."
Unfortunately I have to disagree with you. As I understand it the central tenet of Catholic christianity is a belief in Christ the son of God who came to save us all, who is one with God and the holy spirit and all being one God (add or subtract bits or move them around but that basically that is it). That I believe has been the basis of the faith or creed since the Council of Nicae in 325. Therefore not eternal nor prevalent through the world's societies. Also it took time to be accepted before 325 look up the Arian controversy.
The second central tenet is the primacy if papal authority. Which took about 3 centuries to appear. Again not eternal or prevalent through world societies.
It is a shame that the central tenets proposed of not killing and stealing were not applicable until recently to heathens, heretics or apostates.
In any case given that many rules quoted arise out of Judaism which has elements of earlier religions I am not sure Christianity can take the credit for the rules.
In any case as stated previously many faiths and societies predating and not related to the Abrahamic line of religion had similar rules. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Thanks for the considered response. I have another question. Given fornication is a mortal sin are you not extremely worried you will go to hell.
I'm not no, although contradicting the Church does play on my conscience occasionally.
I do think that we have been given sex as something to be enjoyed and not taken for granted or abused. If sex is so bad, why did God give woman a clitoris? I did grow up abstaining until I felt otherwise. I do feel that this period helps me to better understand and respect others sexually.
So you consider yourself a Catholic even though you disagree with some of the central beliefs of the Catholic Church.
I have always thought that for a lot of people being an adherent of a religion is like supporting a football team. You might think the team are shit and the manager hopeless but you are still part of them...
It's not so much that I disagree with the official view, I just follow my morality on such matters. I suppose I feel a similar way to someone who either disobeys their parents or does something that they know they'll disapprove of.
The football team analogy is an interesting one, I can see where you're coming from although it's slightly deeper than that.
Because I was brought up in a completely agnostic way I see a religion as involving a set of intellectual propositions that you either agree with or disagree with. Just as you wouldn't say you were a Marxist unless you agree with the central tenets of the philosophy of Karl Marx, you wouldn't say you were a Catholic unless you agreed with the central tenets of the Catholic Church.
I think for a lot of people with a religious upbringing its very different and much more a matter of personal identity. Thus you can "feel" you are a Catholic even though you differ radically with the church on matters of faith and morals just as I can "feel" myself a sheffield united supporter even though at any given time I might feel the team are rubbish.
That's the analogy : religion as a. Personal identity rather than an intellectual assent.
I think it has Gotten more that way over time. Bear in mind that that the Bible and the core concepts of Christianity were laid down centuries ago when life was very different. For example marriage would have been between teenagers so it was realistic to marry as virgins. Fast forward to today and you can see why so many Christians don't abstain until matrimony.
Indeed. That's one of the central argument against religion as far as I am concerned. It purports to arrive from an omniscient being but it's patently obvious that it is a product of its time and place and is based on the knowledge and social arrangements available in a particular time and place.
I can see why people have a desire to believe but I really find it difficult to understand how anyone can think about religion and accept it as true.
The central concepts of Christianity are eternal And prevalent thru society (ie don't kill or steal, love your parents, forgive others, look after those less fortunate etc)
It's Just then whether you believe in an omnipotent being or not.
Unfortunately I have to disagree with you. As I understand it the central tenet of Catholic christianity is a belief in Christ the son of God who came to save us all, who is one with God and the holy spirit and all being one God (add or subtract bits or move them around but that basically that is it). That I believe has been the basis of the faith or creed since the Council of Nicae in 325. Therefore not eternal nor prevalent through the world's societies. Also it took time to be accepted before 325 look up the Arian controversy.
The second central tenet is the primacy if papal authority. Which took about 3 centuries to appear. Again not eternal or prevalent through world societies.
It is a shame that the central tenets proposed of not killing and stealing were not applicable until recently to heathens, heretics or apostates.
In any case given that many rules quoted arise out of Judaism which has elements of earlier religions I am not sure Christianity can take the credit for the rules.
In any case as stated previously many faiths and societies predating and not related to the Abrahamic line of religion had similar rules."
So in summary witchcraft purveyed by white (mostly) men who purport to be celibate that pontificate (literally) on what others should do with their emotional and sex lives. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
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The central concepts of Christianity are eternal And prevalent thru society (ie don't kill or steal, love your parents, forgive others, look after those less fortunate etc)
It's Just then whether you believe in an omnipotent being or not.
Unfortunately I have to disagree with you. As I understand it the central tenet of Catholic christianity is a belief in Christ the son of God who came to save us all, who is one with God and the holy spirit and all being one God (add or subtract bits or move them around but that basically that is it). That I believe has been the basis of the faith or creed since the Council of Nicae in 325. Therefore not eternal nor prevalent through the world's societies. Also it took time to be accepted before 325 look up the Arian controversy.
The second central tenet is the primacy if papal authority. Which took about 3 centuries to appear. Again not eternal or prevalent through world societies.
It is a shame that the central tenets proposed of not killing and stealing were not applicable until recently to heathens, heretics or apostates.
In any case given that many rules quoted arise out of Judaism which has elements of earlier religions I am not sure Christianity can take the credit for the rules.
In any case as stated previously many faiths and societies predating and not related to the Abrahamic line of religion had similar rules."
Firstly, I was referring to Christianity in general rather than Catholicism. Now you are right that the Ten Commandments arise from the Old Testament and so are basically from Judaism.
What my point was is that modern western society has grown from Christian roots and as such our basic laws and moral code follow loosely Christian values. As I also mentioned a lot of religions are similar in core beliefs so it is not surprising that other societies share similar norms and values. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I would suggest that modern Western society had no option but to develop from Christian roots. This is because Christianity from the 10 century up to and even beyond the enlightenment in the 18th century and even up to the 1960s, was the only choice of religion, if you wanted an easy life or to prosper in society.
It was and is embedded in western society due to history and vicious enforcement and a lack of choice, rather than the innate goodness of the faith.
However if you turned the discussion around and asked why did Christianity take off in the Roman empire that is a fascinating debate. In the first century it was new, vibrant, egalitarian between man and woman, master and slave because all were equal in God's sight and therefore it was subversive, dangerous and attractive. |
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