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Kneeling during national anthem
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"Trump is correct. It is about courtesy and respect for a country and its national anthem. " You lost me at "Trump is correct" | |||
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"Don't know full story and to be honest don't really care but Americans do invest a lot more patriotism into their nation anthem and flag, think they still pledge allegiance each morning at school so perhaps rather than people just focusing on another anti-Trump rant we should look at their big picture. "The big picture as in how many innocent black men are being shot by cops | |||
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"Trump is correct. It is about courtesy and respect for a country and its national anthem. " Can you give more information?  | |||
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"Trump is correct. It is about courtesy and respect for a country and its national anthem. " Yes Hitler The people MUST bow to the thinking of the state or be denounced and punished for disobeying mein leaders way me life | |||
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"It's called manners and formalities. Sportspeople are representing their country and should behave appropriately." They should stand up for issues they believe in. Telling a person of colour to be quiet and "behave appropriately" sounds an awful lot like white privilege and oppression - exactly what they're making a stand against. Fuck your "manners and formalities"  | |||
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"What nonsense. These sportspeople represent their country. If they are not prepared to show respect, they should be sacked " Ok Hitler. | |||
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"What nonsense. These sportspeople represent their country. If they are not prepared to show respect, they should be sacked " Sorry i couldn't hear you over all the shit you were talking. Black lives matter. Trump is playing to his demographic of racist idiotic Americans. Look at his comments during recent far right demonstrations. | |||
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"Trump is the one trying to overthrow corruption, and to drain the Washington swamp. " Trump is what now? Overthrowing corruption? Which one of his sycophantic tax dodging cronies or family member has he put in charge of that department? | |||
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"He is draining the Washington elite swamp." In what way and in what world is that happening? | |||
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"It's called manners and formalities. Sportspeople are representing their country and should behave appropriately." But the NFL players aren;t representing their country... | |||
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"Hence all the squealing and the resistance from the left wing elite " Out of interest who are the left wing elise? And the Washington swamp? And for that matterwhat corruption is he trying to overthrow? And will you ignore this post unable to answer those questions having heard those soundbites but having no idea what they mean? | |||
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"What nonsense. These sportspeople represent their country. If they are not prepared to show respect, they should be sacked " Exactly they represent their country so they should take a stand (or a knee)when their county is being led in the wrong direction. I was in the states the week trump was elected and encountered racism on three seperate occasions, and on one of those occasions the guy directly mentioned trump to me. I don't think it's something you'll ever understand unless you've gone through it yourself. | |||
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"It's called manners and formalities. Sportspeople are representing their country and should behave appropriately." Hear, hear  | |||
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"Hence all the squealing and the resistance from the left wing elite Out of interest who are the left wing elise? And the Washington swamp? And for that matterwhat corruption is he trying to overthrow? And will you ignore this post unable to answer those questions having heard those soundbites but having no idea what they mean? " You're wasting your effort on this troll mate. He's either just trying to get a reaction, or he's really stupid enough to believe what he's typed!! | |||
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"What absolute rubbish. Why do you always make it a race thing? Politics have no place in sport. Sportspeople should be apolitical. Sport should be an escape from politics, not a mouthpiece for it." It's black people protesting about the treatment of black people, it is a race issue. | |||
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"2 rules in America, if you're white and commit a heinous crime you are arrested and tried. If you're black and commit a petty crime you're likely to be shot dead. These players are using their rights to protest, maybe if the laws respected these ppl then these ppl would show respect?" Cops give a damn about a negro Pull the trigger kill a nigga he's a hero Give the crack to the kids who the hell cares One less hungry mouth on the welfare First ship 'em dope and let 'em deal the brothers Give 'em guns step back watch 'em kill each other. Tupac Shakur. | |||
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"Now I get it. So I take it these nfl players are black and are protesting along the lines of Black lives matter; right? And they are doing that by taking a knee during the national anthem. Hmmm. I see. And I presume there is a resultant " all lives matter" reaction along the lines of " you are disrespecting the whose of the US by taking a knee" Is this what the whole brouhaha is about?" Is this what it's about? | |||
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"2 rules in America, if you're white and commit a heinous crime you are arrested and tried. If you're black and commit a petty crime you're likely to be shot dead. These players are using their rights to protest, maybe if the laws respected these ppl then these ppl would show respect?" Unfortunately people posting facts they probably learnt on Facebook rarely help calm complex and volatile situations. | |||
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"Nor do they ever look at crime statistics to discover which racial group commits the most crime, proportionate to the population as a whole." What are you trying to say, young man? | |||
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"2 rules in America, if you're white and commit a heinous crime you are arrested and tried. If you're black and commit a petty crime you're likely to be shot dead. These players are using their rights to protest, maybe if the laws respected these ppl then these ppl would show respect? Unfortunately people posting facts they probably learnt on Facebook rarely help calm complex and volatile situations." I'm not on Facebook so? | |||
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"What absolute rubbish. Why do you always make it a race thing? Politics have no place in sport. Sportspeople should be apolitical. Sport should be an escape from politics, not a mouthpiece for it." I find it odd that you say this while posting plenty of empty rhetoric on this thread | |||
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"Trump is a racist, privileged white male and a draft dodger who wouldn't know what respect for his country was if it bit him on his arse. Good on these sportsmen for supporting what they believe in and not allowing themselves to be bullied by their joke of a president. " | |||
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"What absolute rubbish. Why do you always make it a race thing? Politics have no place in sport. Sportspeople should be apolitical. Sport should be an escape from politics, not a mouthpiece for it. I find it odd that you say this while posting plenty of empty rhetoric on this thread " I have not posted any rhetoric. | |||
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"That people should read statistics and become informed before they make comments." Correct. However, white people commit more crime in this country. Crime statistics are generally tied up with poverty rather than race. Unfortunately in America race and poverty tend to be one and the same issue. Another reason for taking a complicated knee rather than a black and white one (see what I did there?). | |||
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"Trump is a racist, privileged white male and a draft dodger who wouldn't know what respect for his country was if it bit him on his arse. Good on these sportsmen for supporting what they believe in and not allowing themselves to be bullied by their joke of a president. "He is the democratically elected president. They the idiots. | |||
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"Trump is a racist, privileged white male and a draft dodger who wouldn't know what respect for his country was if it bit him on his arse. Good on these sportsmen for supporting what they believe in and not allowing themselves to be bullied by their joke of a president.
He is the democratically elected president. They the idiots."rigged and i wont stand or sing along to any national anthem..so shoot me  | |||
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"What nonsense. These sportspeople represent their country. If they are not prepared to show respect, they should be sacked " You dont know shit about what you are talking about. They play for individual teams, not the country. They took a knee today at Wembley for the US national anthem but all stood up for the British national anthem. Now we should all be fired for having an opinion or stance on a certain subject? | |||
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"What absolute rubbish. Why do you always make it a race thing? Politics have no place in sport. Sportspeople should be apolitical. Sport should be an escape from politics, not a mouthpiece for it. I find it odd that you say this while posting plenty of empty rhetoric on this thread I have not posted any rhetoric." You have, your narrative is plain to see. | |||
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"Trump is a racist, privileged white male and a draft dodger who wouldn't know what respect for his country was if it bit him on his arse. Good on these sportsmen for supporting what they believe in and not allowing themselves to be bullied by their joke of a president.
He is the democratically elected president. They the idiots."Indeed he is. But he's still a narcissistic bully and a cunt | |||
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"Nor do they ever look at crime statistics to discover which racial group commits the most crime, proportionate to the population as a whole." This false statistic is the whole problem. If you are a certain race you are more likely to be accused of a crime. You're more likely to be stopped in the street. You're more likely to be arrested. You're more likely to receive a guilty verdict from a jury etc. That doesn't mean they do most of the crime - it means that the police and the system is biased against them. Also if you genuinely believe that your ethnicity has correlation with criminality (as suggested by you posting this) then you are a grade A cunt. | |||
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"Trump is the one trying to overthrow corruption, and to drain the Washington swamp. " Trump is more corrupt than most Americans. You shouldnt speak without knowledge of the subject | |||
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"Trump is a racist, privileged white male and a draft dodger who wouldn't know what respect for his country was if it bit him on his arse. Good on these sportsmen for supporting what they believe in and not allowing themselves to be bullied by their joke of a president.
He is the democratically elected president. They the idiots."Indeed, Trump was elected DEMICRATICALLY. The vibes I get from across the pond tell a different story. I am lost for words. Makes me wonder if he is indeed doing exactly what a lot of people want(ed) and yet, these same people go about distancing themselves. | |||
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"2 rules in America, if you're white and commit a heinous crime you are arrested and tried. If you're black and commit a petty crime you're likely to be shot dead. These players are using their rights to protest, maybe if the laws respected these ppl then these ppl would show respect?" These people? | |||
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"2 rules in America, if you're white and commit a heinous crime you are arrested and tried. If you're black and commit a petty crime you're likely to be shot dead. These players are using their rights to protest, maybe if the laws respected these ppl then these ppl would show respect? Unfortunately people posting facts they probably learnt on Facebook rarely help calm complex and volatile situations. I'm not on Facebook so?" I doubt your point raised above is based in evidence that is objective. | |||
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"I have not posted any rhetoric." What aboyt when you posted this: "Trump is the one trying to overthrow corruption, and to drain the Washington swamp" or this: "Hence all the squealing and the resistance from the left wing elite " | |||
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"2 rules in America, if you're white and commit a heinous crime you are arrested and tried. If you're black and commit a petty crime you're likely to be shot dead. These players are using their rights to protest, maybe if the laws respected these ppl then these ppl would show respect? Unfortunately people posting facts they probably learnt on Facebook rarely help calm complex and volatile situations. I'm not on Facebook so? I doubt your point raised above is based in evidence that is objective." Funny but that is exactly why I raised it, do we hear of any white Americans being gunned down for any crimes? We do hear of black Americans being killed for things such as reaching into a glove compartment for his drivers license, which he'd just been asked for though. The treatment of different races in America isn't consistent so don't suggest I'm some sort of thick social media believing idiot. | |||
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"What nonsense. These sportspeople represent their country. If they are not prepared to show respect, they should be sacked " Whilst I do agree that sports people should not bring their politics onto the playing field o think it fair to point out that American footballers are not representing their country when they fail to stand for the American national anthem. No more than Chelsworth players represent great Britain. | |||
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"Trump is a racist, privileged white male and a draft dodger who wouldn't know what respect for his country was if it bit him on his arse. Good on these sportsmen for supporting what they believe in and not allowing themselves to be bullied by their joke of a president. " this.. | |||
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"2 rules in America, if you're white and commit a heinous crime you are arrested and tried. If you're black and commit a petty crime you're likely to be shot dead. These players are using their rights to protest, maybe if the laws respected these ppl then these ppl would show respect? Unfortunately people posting facts they probably learnt on Facebook rarely help calm complex and volatile situations. I'm not on Facebook so? I doubt your point raised above is based in evidence that is objective. Funny but that is exactly why I raised it, do we hear of any white Americans being gunned down for any crimes? We do hear of black Americans being killed for things such as reaching into a glove compartment for his drivers license, which he'd just been asked for though. The treatment of different races in America isn't consistent so don't suggest I'm some sort of thick social media believing idiot." You made a statement that if you're black and commit a crime you're likely to be shot. I'm sorry but I didn't detect any hint of satire or parody? Are you claiming this to be a fact or your opinion? Or are you saying your statement was delivered in sarcasm? There are numerous shootings where the incident could have been handled differently and better and those specific incidents need protesting over. Not every one fits that criteria despite the media's desire to make it so. | |||
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"Trump is a racist, privileged white male and a draft dodger who wouldn't know what respect for his country was if it bit him on his arse. Good on these sportsmen for supporting what they believe in and not allowing themselves to be bullied by their joke of a president. this.. " Agree | |||
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"Surely he'd prefer this form of peaceful protest over days of rioting? " Have you been following the news at all?! | |||
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"Surely he'd prefer this form of peaceful protest over days of rioting? Have you been following the news at all?! " ? | |||
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"People used to kneel for the monarch, so are they technically being more respectful? "You were told to kneel before the monarch, standing would be treason. | |||
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"People used to kneel for the monarch, so are they technically being more respectful?
You were told to kneel before the monarch, standing would be treason."Ah yes, the good old days | |||
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"Surely he'd prefer this form of peaceful protest over days of rioting? Have you been following the news at all?! ?" It's not a difficult question lol Trump courts controversy and lobes nothing more than pitting people against each other. | |||
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"Trump is correct. It is about courtesy and respect for a country and its national anthem. You lost me at "Trump is correct" " I picked up on that too. he is a CUNT. simple. | |||
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"Surely he'd prefer this form of peaceful protest over days of rioting? Have you been following the news at all?! ? It's not a difficult question lol Trump courts controversy and lobes nothing more than pitting people against each other. " Should've said that in the first place | |||
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"Surely he'd prefer this form of peaceful protest over days of rioting? Have you been following the news at all?! ? It's not a difficult question lol Trump courts controversy and lobes nothing more than pitting people against each other. Should've said that in the first place " Why? | |||
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"Is this still a swinging site. ? " fancy a fuck...or is yer wifes tits ready for ma jizz. Cant we talk about stuff...other than jizzing on yer wifes tits or face?... surely not...on a swinging site... | |||
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"You stand up for a national anthem, even if it is not yours. You sing it if it is yours and you know the words. If not you remain silent. Trump called for players to be sacked if they failed to do that. Therefore he is correct." How come England football fans don't abide by your rules? They have been known to boo during opposition national anthems | |||
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"Surely he'd prefer this form of peaceful protest over days of rioting? Have you been following the news at all?! ? It's not a difficult question lol Trump courts controversy and lobes nothing more than pitting people against each other. Should've said that in the first place Why? " we would have reached this conclusion with two fewer posts, more efficient | |||
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"Surely he'd prefer this form of peaceful protest over days of rioting? Have you been following the news at all?! ? It's not a difficult question lol Trump courts controversy and lobes nothing more than pitting people against each other. Should've said that in the first place Why? we would have reached this conclusion with two fewer posts, more efficient " Like I said.... It wasn't a difficult question | |||
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"Surely he'd prefer this form of peaceful protest over days of rioting? Have you been following the news at all?! ? It's not a difficult question lol Trump courts controversy and lobes nothing more than pitting people against each other. Should've said that in the first place Why? we would have reached this conclusion with two fewer posts, more efficient Like I said.... It wasn't a difficult question " then you should've answered that in the first place then lol | |||
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"2 rules in America, if you're white and commit a heinous crime you are arrested and tried. If you're black and commit a petty crime you're likely to be shot dead. These players are using their rights to protest, maybe if the laws respected these ppl then these ppl would show respect? Unfortunately people posting facts they probably learnt on Facebook rarely help calm complex and volatile situations. I'm not on Facebook so? I doubt your point raised above is based in evidence that is objective. Funny but that is exactly why I raised it, do we hear of any white Americans being gunned down for any crimes? We do hear of black Americans being killed for things such as reaching into a glove compartment for his drivers license, which he'd just been asked for though. The treatment of different races in America isn't consistent so don't suggest I'm some sort of thick social media believing idiot. You made a statement that if you're black and commit a crime you're likely to be shot. I'm sorry but I didn't detect any hint of satire or parody? Are you claiming this to be a fact or your opinion? Or are you saying your statement was delivered in sarcasm? There are numerous shootings where the incident could have been handled differently and better and those specific incidents need protesting over. Not every one fits that criteria despite the media's desire to make it so." There was sarcasm in there. What I mentioned is a small part of the problem, the continued oppression of black people in America is huge, Trump is making it worse, he's a racist idiot. | |||
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"What absolute rubbish. Why do you always make it a race thing? Politics have no place in sport. Sportspeople should be apolitical. Sport should be an escape from politics, not a mouthpiece for it." It's being made into a race thing because the whole #TakeTheKnee movement was started because of racism | |||
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"Trump is correct. It is about courtesy and respect for a country and its national anthem. You lost me at "Trump is correct" " +1 | |||
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"Trump is correct. It is about courtesy and respect for a country and its national anthem. " Trump is not correct! He is a hypocritical racist, looking for an easy target to rally his base! He supports the maintenance of confederate monuments including the right to wave the confederate flag. These symbols are the antithesis of what he says about patriotism, flag and country. The confederate States and leaders tried to break up the Union! Add to that his comments on John McCain during the primaries and the insults to vets with ptsd...... Faking his way out of conscription. ...... and his defence of first amendment rights of alt right and white supremacists/Nazis/Kkk members...... Don't see that how you can say that he has any deep seated patriotisim, respect for the Flag or Nation...... Don't see | |||
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"2 rules in America, if you're white and commit a heinous crime you are arrested and tried. If you're black and commit a petty crime you're likely to be shot dead. These players are using their rights to protest, maybe if the laws respected these ppl then these ppl would show respect? Unfortunately people posting facts they probably learnt on Facebook rarely help calm complex and volatile situations. I'm not on Facebook so? I doubt your point raised above is based in evidence that is objective. Funny but that is exactly why I raised it, do we hear of any white Americans being gunned down for any crimes? We do hear of black Americans being killed for things such as reaching into a glove compartment for his drivers license, which he'd just been asked for though. The treatment of different races in America isn't consistent so don't suggest I'm some sort of thick social media believing idiot. You made a statement that if you're black and commit a crime you're likely to be shot. I'm sorry but I didn't detect any hint of satire or parody? Are you claiming this to be a fact or your opinion? Or are you saying your statement was delivered in sarcasm? There are numerous shootings where the incident could have been handled differently and better and those specific incidents need protesting over. Not every one fits that criteria despite the media's desire to make it so. There was sarcasm in there. What I mentioned is a small part of the problem, the continued oppression of black people in America is huge, Trump is making it worse, he's a racist idiot." Then I apologise for misreading your post. I do despair at Trump...yet at times he appears like an oxymoron. Though it's troubling to see that the approach to modern day politics seems to be you're either for or against an idea. Whatever happened to trying to understand all perspectives. The media has a lot to answer for in my opinion...they selectively report facts and twist stories. | |||
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"What absolute rubbish. Why do you always make it a race thing? Politics have no place in sport. Sportspeople should be apolitical. Sport should be an escape from politics, not a mouthpiece for it." your nievity about history, current affairs and politics is quite astounding considering how quick you are to state a public opinion on what are actually deep and hugely complex issues. .... I suggest you have a long look at the complexities and reasons behind the boycott of South African sports teams during the Apartheid era and the important role it had in legitimizing, publicising and promoting the fledgeling anti Apartheid movement...... And also the important role that sports had in unifying the the country in the early days of tension and turmoil in the post apartheid era. ... | |||
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"You stand up for a national anthem, even if it is not yours. You sing it if it is yours and you know the words. If not you remain silent. Trump called for players to be sacked if they failed to do that. Therefore he is correct." in your world what happens if someone does not act as you say above regarding the National anthem..? which being ex military i disagree with by the way.. | |||
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"2 rules in America, if you're white and commit a heinous crime you are arrested and tried. If you're black and commit a petty crime you're likely to be shot dead. These players are using their rights to protest, maybe if the laws respected these ppl then these ppl would show respect? Unfortunately people posting facts they probably learnt on Facebook rarely help calm complex and volatile situations. I'm not on Facebook so? I doubt your point raised above is based in evidence that is objective. Funny but that is exactly why I raised it, do we hear of any white Americans being gunned down for any crimes? We do hear of black Americans being killed for things such as reaching into a glove compartment for his drivers license, which he'd just been asked for though. The treatment of different races in America isn't consistent so don't suggest I'm some sort of thick social media believing idiot. You made a statement that if you're black and commit a crime you're likely to be shot. I'm sorry but I didn't detect any hint of satire or parody? Are you claiming this to be a fact or your opinion? Or are you saying your statement was delivered in sarcasm? There are numerous shootings where the incident could have been handled differently and better and those specific incidents need protesting over. Not every one fits that criteria despite the media's desire to make it so. There was sarcasm in there. What I mentioned is a small part of the problem, the continued oppression of black people in America is huge, Trump is making it worse, he's a racist idiot. Then I apologise for misreading your post. I do despair at Trump...yet at times he appears like an oxymoron. Though it's troubling to see that the approach to modern day politics seems to be you're either for or against an idea. Whatever happened to trying to understand all perspectives. The media has a lot to answer for in my opinion...they selectively report facts and twist stories." No problem, yes, the main stream media are twisting everything to suit the people who own thems agenda. It's hard to know what's right or wrong anymore. | |||
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"The Regulations around the US flag specify certain acts as disrespectful in Chapter 10 of the Code of Conduct. Kneeling is not listed. But there are multiple offences that occur regularly; Displaying the flag flat (e.g. those giant flags that cover the whole field. Attaching the flag to a sports or non military uniform. Most teams do this. Adding the flag to items such as cushions or pillows. On sale nationwide. Nobody seems bothered about these things which are officially disrespectful, but only about a thing which isn't. " Love it | |||
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"Trump is correct. It is about courtesy and respect for a country and its national anthem. " Actually, Trump is wrong... There is NO Law, Statute or Regulation which requires players to stand during the National Anthem. In the aftermath of Kaepernick's protest, the NFL issued a statement to the effect that "Players are encouraged but not required to stand during the playing of the National Anthem." It has NEVER been a requirement to stand for the National Anthem: the only exception was during WWII, when SOME cities passed ordnances obliging citizens to stand for the Anthem. In fact, during the 1930s, suggestion that people should be obliged to stand during the Anthem 'smacked of German Militarism' and 'Totalitarianism.' https://timeline.com/illegal-stand-national-anthem-222775e14f93 | |||
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"Trump is the one trying to overthrow corruption, and to drain the Washington swamp. " Don't hesitate to flag it up when he gets round to doing that... | |||
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"You stand up for a national anthem, even if it is not yours. You sing it if it is yours and you know the words. If not you remain silent. Trump called for players to be sacked if they failed to do that. Therefore he is correct." Your forgetting that standing and national anthems are new traditions. In many Eastern and until recently western societies proskynesis was prefered in the veneration of precious objects or people who are seen to be superior to oneself. I feel personally if you see the footage many are singing and other with hand on chest. American society is more patriotic and put more emotional currency in such things. In my personal opinion the jags and raven players are being courteiouse but are making a political point at the same time, that does not impede freedom of speech. It's not like the titans who refused to stand or kneel or even acknowledge the anthem. | |||
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""Donald Trump began Sunday with yet another attack on NFL players kneeling in protest of the national anthem. Shortly before his treasury secretary insisted the president was not picking a fight, Trump doubled down on his bellicose remarks from a rally in Alabama on Friday night. The president repeated his challenge to NFL team owners to “fire or suspend” any player who fails to stand and encouraged fans to stop attending games until the owners take action." https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/24/donald-trump-nfl-protests-kneel-anthem "Honestly, anyone who doesnt support this is an idiot, no matter what you do or who you are, innocent black people are being murdered by police in america every day, right wing violence is on the up & black people in th US are already marginalised as it is, its only getting worse. These players are making a peaceful stand on a global stage to show that they cannot & will not support a constitution that treats white & black citizens differently, after all, if the country you were born in marginalised you, would you still stand & sing its anthem in front of millions? Would you fuck. | |||
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"American society is more patriotic and put more emotional currency in such things. In my personal opinion the jags and raven players are being courteiouse but are making a political point at the same time, that does not impede freedom of speech. It's not like the titans who refused to stand or kneel or even acknowledge the anthem. " This I agree with | |||
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"There's always a tweet https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/387565483303923712" | |||
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"Trump is a racist, privileged white male and a draft dodger who wouldn't know what respect for his country was if it bit him on his arse. Good on these sportsmen for supporting what they believe in and not allowing themselves to be bullied by their joke of a president. " With you all the way | |||
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"I saw one military guy having a rant earlier about 'these pussies' wouldn't dare represent their country in a war." I hate military knuckleheads who think that having served in the armed forces makes you an expert on anything relating to politics, and automatically more patriotic than anyone else... It might interest them to know that in the late eighteenth century - i.e. During and immediately after the American Revolution - the concept of a professional 'Standing Army' was regarded as symbolic of AUTHORITARIAN government. Consequently, the 2nd Amendment - the Right to Bear Arms - was designed to PREVENT the Federal Government from using the Army as a political tool; mainly by allowing individual States to maintain Citizen Militias. | |||
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"When you look, and I mean really look at America,the allegiance is not patriotism, it is the product of brainwashing. America's citizens are some of the most repressed in the World. The citizens have less rights than other western countries, and don't get me started on how even less rights to children have. United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, two countries in the world have signed the convention, but not ratified it. One country is America,the other is the Sudan. To look into makes fascinating research." I dont understand how more of you dont know this. Thank you | |||
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" Trump called for players to be sacked if they failed to do that. Therefore he is correct." You know that's a criminal offence right ? The president acting with the intention of influencing the employment decisions of a private organisations is a felony punishable by a fine, up to 15 years in prison and/or a ban from public office. | |||
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" These sportspeople represent their country. If they are not prepared to show respect, they should be sacked " No they don't... they represent their sport and their clubs... this is a CLUB match, not a national team event. | |||
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"Trump is the one trying to overthrow corruption, and to drain the Washington swamp. " He is a corrupt gangster | |||
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"Now I get it. So I take it these nfl players are black and are protesting along the lines of Black lives matter; right? And they are doing that by taking a knee during the national anthem. Hmmm. I see. And I presume there is a resultant " all lives matter" reaction along the lines of " you are disrespecting the whose of the US by taking a knee" Is this what the whole brouhaha is about? Is this what it's about?" Yes | |||
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"People used to kneel for the monarch, so are they technically being more respectful?
You were told to kneel before the monarch, standing would be treason."And yet when Corbyn chose not to kneel before the Queen, the Queen wasn't bothered in the slightest and the privy council ceremony went on just the same. | |||
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"Trump is correct. It is about courtesy and respect for a country and its national anthem. " apart from the fact that Trump is never, and will never ever be correct about anything, it is nothing to do with courtesy!! and has everything to do with the players respect for their country..Trump would far rather protests became ugly and violent as that suits his agenda..this is a powerful, and very visible way of getting their message across. | |||
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"The Regulations around the US flag specify certain acts as disrespectful in Chapter 10 of the Code of Conduct. Kneeling is not listed. But there are multiple offences that occur regularly; Displaying the flag flat (e.g. those giant flags that cover the whole field. Attaching the flag to a sports or non military uniform. Most teams do this. Adding the flag to items such as cushions or pillows. On sale nationwide. Nobody seems bothered about these things which are officially disrespectful, but only about a thing which isn't. " Wearing apparel of the Stars and Stripes is illegal but there are plenty of Americans who "disrespect" the flag in that way. Anyway they're not disrespecting "the flag", they are kneeling during the anthem, nothing to do with the flag. | |||
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"Trump is correct. It is about courtesy and respect for a country and its national anthem. apart from the fact that Trump is never, and will never ever be correct about anything, it is nothing to do with courtesy!! and has everything to do with the players respect for their country..Trump would far rather protests became ugly and violent as that suits his agenda..this is a powerful, and very visible way of getting their message across." Trump shows no sign of respect for truth, decency, people, the law or the constitution.... he is so stupid he doesn't recognise the irony of him criticising others on the subject of respect. | |||
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"What nonsense. These sportspeople represent their country. If they are not prepared to show respect, they should be sacked " what nonsense. These sportspeople are representing their clubs, cities & regions, NOT their country. | |||
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"I think the NFL players are taking major risks by kneeling but are doing so because they have an incredibly visible position for the nation - and they want to make a bold statement about grave injustices that they are seeing in the country. They understand the perceived wrong that others may judge from their acts but take this course due to the seriousness of the wrongs they're protesting. " | |||
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"Trump is correct. It is about courtesy and respect for a country and its national anthem. apart from the fact that Trump is never, and will never ever be correct about anything, it is nothing to do with courtesy!! and has everything to do with the players respect for their country..Trump would far rather protests became ugly and violent as that suits his agenda..this is a powerful, and very visible way of getting their message across. Trump shows no sign of respect for truth, decency, people, the law or the constitution.... he is so stupid he doesn't recognise the irony of him criticising others on the subject of respect." | |||
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"As a self confessed republican Jeremy Corbyn refused to sing our national anthem..... "He had to swear allegiance to the Queen to serve as leader of his party. Do you think he had his fingers crossed? | |||
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"If they feel it's the only way of getting across what discontent there is in America then fine. If its a self indulged publicity move then no. Given Trump included in his comments that they need to respect the country's system which has allowed them to earn millions and we are in a world where their views can be read by a few hundred million on social media, it's up to us to make a considered opinion on the action they've taken. " Yeah, the country did them a favour by ALLOWING them to make millions. | |||
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"We refuse to stand for the UK national anthem under all circumstances. There is no way we will stand for some jingoistic nonsense about an invisible 'sky fairy saving someone who was born of some magical vagina". Monarchy and national anthems are all about perpetuating the elitist institutions that try to keep the status quo and wealth in their grubby little hands. Wake up and smell the coffee."  crikey, lighten up it's sunny out! | |||
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"We refuse to stand for the UK national anthem under all circumstances. There is no way we will stand for some jingoistic nonsense about an invisible 'sky fairy saving someone who was born of some magical vagina". Monarchy and national anthems are all about perpetuating the elitist institutions that try to keep the status quo and wealth in their grubby little hands. Wake up and smell the coffee." This. I strongly dislike bragging about and glorifying one's particular part of the world and I would like people who do like that sort of thing to respect my beliefs just as I respect their rights to stand up for and sing whatever they like. | |||
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"We refuse to stand for the UK national anthem under all circumstances. There is no way we will stand for some jingoistic nonsense about an invisible 'sky fairy saving someone who was born of some magical vagina". Monarchy and national anthems are all about perpetuating the elitist institutions that try to keep the status quo and wealth in their grubby little hands. Wake up and smell the coffee. This. I strongly dislike bragging about and glorifying one's particular part of the world and I would like people who do like that sort of thing to respect my beliefs just as I respect their rights to stand up for and sing whatever they like. " Has anyone in the last ten years been forced to stand up and sing or threatened if they don't? I think the answer is No? So your beliefs are respected? | |||
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"We refuse to stand for the UK national anthem under all circumstances. There is no way we will stand for some jingoistic nonsense about an invisible 'sky fairy saving someone who was born of some magical vagina". Monarchy and national anthems are all about perpetuating the elitist institutions that try to keep the status quo and wealth in their grubby little hands. Wake up and smell the coffee. This. I strongly dislike bragging about and glorifying one's particular part of the world and I would like people who do like that sort of thing to respect my beliefs just as I respect their rights to stand up for and sing whatever they like. Has anyone in the last ten years been forced to stand up and sing or threatened if they don't? I think the answer is No? So your beliefs are respected?" One of the great things about being British is that we never used to go in for excessive nationalistic displays. No one outside the far right gave a damn about the union flag and most people viewed the national anthem as slightly embarrassing. Now that is ebbing away. Can Corbyn being seated for not singing the anthem and the hateful rhetoric around brexit. | |||
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"J F Kennedy us president 1961 to 1963, The greatest speech maker in modern times, thou probabily not sqeaky clean Taken away from this world by two gun shots, in a similar way as most of his Family was, I,ll be surprised if trump Ever gets to be a old man he,s far from Sqeaky clean and not sane in my book, If he Escapes a assasins bullet or another attempt on his life he,ll be a very lucky man Indeed there will be those out there planning his downfall as I speak, Only somebody as Insane as him would carry on regardless with his policys and speeches. " Isn't he in his 70's? | |||
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"We refuse to stand for the UK national anthem under all circumstances. There is no way we will stand for some jingoistic nonsense about an invisible 'sky fairy saving someone who was born of some magical vagina". Monarchy and national anthems are all about perpetuating the elitist institutions that try to keep the status quo and wealth in their grubby little hands. Wake up and smell the coffee. This. I strongly dislike bragging about and glorifying one's particular part of the world and I would like people who do like that sort of thing to respect my beliefs just as I respect their rights to stand up for and sing whatever they like. Has anyone in the last ten years been forced to stand up and sing or threatened if they don't? I think the answer is No? So your beliefs are respected? One of the great things about being British is that we never used to go in for excessive nationalistic displays. No one outside the far right gave a damn about the union flag and most people viewed the national anthem as slightly embarrassing. Now that is ebbing away. Can Corbyn being seated for not singing the anthem and the hateful rhetoric around brexit. " I'm not suggesting that people have to stand for the national anthem but the likes of Corbyn are the exception. As a public figure who one day hopes to lead the nation he should show deference and respect to the crown. That fact that he refused to should see him sent to the Tower, at least then we wouldn't have to look at his annoying weasel face nor have to listen to his nation destroying, nonsensical rhetoric. | |||
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"In a country that touts freedom of speach amongst it's highest principles Donald Trump should take note of this not criticise it." As was stated by Justice Robert Jackson in 1943: "If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that NO OFFICIAL, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein." In other words, Trump has NO authority to instruct the NFL to compel players to stand for the National Anthem. | |||
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"We refuse to stand for the UK national anthem under all circumstances. There is no way we will stand for some jingoistic nonsense about an invisible 'sky fairy saving someone who was born of some magical vagina". Monarchy and national anthems are all about perpetuating the elitist institutions that try to keep the status quo and wealth in their grubby little hands. Wake up and smell the coffee. This. I strongly dislike bragging about and glorifying one's particular part of the world and I would like people who do like that sort of thing to respect my beliefs just as I respect their rights to stand up for and sing whatever they like. Has anyone in the last ten years been forced to stand up and sing or threatened if they don't? I think the answer is No? So your beliefs are respected? One of the great things about being British is that we never used to go in for excessive nationalistic displays. No one outside the far right gave a damn about the union flag and most people viewed the national anthem as slightly embarrassing. Now that is ebbing away. Can Corbyn being seated for not singing the anthem and the hateful rhetoric around brexit. I'm not suggesting that people have to stand for the national anthem but the likes of Corbyn are the exception. As a public figure who one day hopes to lead the nation he should show deference and respect to the crown. That fact that he refused to should see him sent to the Tower, at least then we wouldn't have to look at his annoying weasel face nor have to listen to his nation destroying, nonsensical rhetoric." No. Nobody regardless of position should be forced to stand or kneel or whatever. I have no desire to meet Mrs Windsor or her dodgy relatives, but I certainly wouldn't bow or kneel or call her by some pathetic title. | |||
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"We refuse to stand for the UK national anthem under all circumstances. There is no way we will stand for some jingoistic nonsense about an invisible 'sky fairy saving someone who was born of some magical vagina". Monarchy and national anthems are all about perpetuating the elitist institutions that try to keep the status quo and wealth in their grubby little hands. Wake up and smell the coffee. This. I strongly dislike bragging about and glorifying one's particular part of the world and I would like people who do like that sort of thing to respect my beliefs just as I respect their rights to stand up for and sing whatever they like. Has anyone in the last ten years been forced to stand up and sing or threatened if they don't? I think the answer is No? So your beliefs are respected? One of the great things about being British is that we never used to go in for excessive nationalistic displays. No one outside the far right gave a damn about the union flag and most people viewed the national anthem as slightly embarrassing. Now that is ebbing away. Can Corbyn being seated for not singing the anthem and the hateful rhetoric around brexit. I'm not suggesting that people have to stand for the national anthem but the likes of Corbyn are the exception. As a public figure who one day hopes to lead the nation he should show deference and respect to the crown. That fact that he refused to should see him sent to the Tower, at least then we wouldn't have to look at his annoying weasel face nor have to listen to his nation destroying, nonsensical rhetoric. No. Nobody regardless of position should be forced to stand or kneel or whatever. I have no desire to meet Mrs Windsor or her dodgy relatives, but I certainly wouldn't bow or kneel or call her by some pathetic title. " I would. | |||
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"The Amercian footballers who kneel, protesting about inequality and exclusion... Are these the same footballers who earn millions, and lead a privileged life and are accepted as heroes by their fans regardless of race. Or are they protesting about the deaths and treatment of gun-carrying gang-bangers who kill, maim and intimidate others and police officers? Something doesn't add up IMO." Why not give your opinion on the topic they're actually protesting against rather than ones they are not? Diversionary tactics are often used by those unable to argue with the topic in hand. | |||
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"The Amercian footballers who kneel, protesting about inequality and exclusion. Are these the same footballers who earn millions, and lead a privileged life and are accepted as heroes by their fans regardless of race." Right, because rich black men shouldn't be allowed to use the platform afforded them by their privilege as a means to protest on behalf of other PoC, and because having millions of dollars in the bank means that you no longer give a damn about inequality or exclusion... | |||
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"The Amercian footballers who kneel, protesting about inequality and exclusion... Are these the same footballers who earn millions, and lead a privileged life and are accepted as heroes by their fans regardless of race. Or are they protesting about the deaths and treatment of gun-carrying gang-bangers who kill, maim and intimidate others and police officers? Something doesn't add up IMO." what is the income level at which you believe people are no longer entitled to protest about issues concerning inequality exactly? | |||
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"Nor do they ever look at crime statistics to discover which racial group commits the most crime, proportionate to the population as a whole." I'm guessing you're not a devotee of the BMFC? | |||
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"He is draining the Washington elite swamp." ..and unfortunately replenishing it with the turds from the billionaires cesspit | |||
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"There is a fundamental right to freedom of speech and peaceful protest when you realize that Nepotism and unfair conditions exist , the guys have a right to kneel peacefully if they wish to, the constitution guarantees this right. An attempt to condemn them is a violation of the constitution of the land. There is a fundamental problem of the understanding of Melanin , what is it and why is it so powerful, so much so that it comes out on top in every blood mixture , science has failed to educate and address this percieved subconscious problem even though this is the number1 problem subconsciously in everyone's mind. Also science has also failed to address albanism and why there is an inability to produce the melanin in some instances, what causes this inability and why does it exist, also science has not explained why are there so many different languages, how can this be . When all this problems are solved then all issues will resolve itself." It's kind of obvious why there are so many different languages. You need basic history for that, not science. As for the skin colour point, that's only one facet of racism. Having seen more of these protests, I completely support them. Good for them | |||
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"It's called manners and formalities. Sportspeople are representing their country and should behave appropriately." Or they should take do what they believe is right and give the message to the people who support them that they are strong and committed to their values and beliefs. | |||
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"Ok. Here's what I think. I think that the first amendment, and free speech more specifically, has been misrepresented in society for too long. People forget that the first amendment only applies to how the US government treats you (it didn't even apply to the individual states until the passing of the 14th amendment following the civil war, but that's a whole different issue). It does not require that private organizations give you a platform on which you can speak. Can the NFL fire players for kneeling? Sure. They don't have a legal obligation to respect "free speech" in the same way that the government has to respect it. Should they, though? I would say not. Sports in America has a history of political participation. I think it would be frankly unamerican if the NFL took such action. But they could if they wanted to. However, I think that this same reasoning needs to apply to other speech platforms, such as Universities. Conservative can't w_ine about talks being cancelled at places like UC Berkeley but then demand the firing of citizens expressing their speech on the football field. " . I agree and disagree. I'm all for free speech, I think they have a right to do what they want but I also think trump has a right as an individual to say fire them!. I don't think he should or can use the government to enforce his wishes, the problem lies with his influence as an individual while being president. Should conservatives suck it up, coz they should... But then the left have got to give up this stupid notion of banning people from universities as well, for one it makes them look like morons but on the bigger stage they just don't grasp what happens you start banning shit you personally don't like  | |||
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"There is a fundamental right to freedom of speech and peaceful protest when you realize that Nepotism and unfair conditions exist , the guys have a right to kneel peacefully if they wish to, the constitution guarantees this right. An attempt to condemn them is a violation of the constitution of the land. There is a fundamental problem of the understanding of Melanin , what is it and why is it so powerful, so much so that it comes out on top in every blood mixture , science has failed to educate and address this percieved subconscious problem even though this is the number1 problem subconsciously in everyone's mind. Also science has also failed to address albanism and why there is an inability to produce the melanin in some instances, what causes this inability and why does it exist, also science has not explained why are there so many different languages, how can this be . When all this problems are solved then all issues will resolve itself." . Not really, it's called vitamin d | |||
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Are you saying we all need to get a tan? | |||
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"Ok. Here's what I think. I think that the first amendment, and free speech more specifically, has been misrepresented in society for too long. People forget that the first amendment only applies to how the US government treats you (it didn't even apply to the individual states until the passing of the 14th amendment following the civil war, but that's a whole different issue). It does not require that private organizations give you a platform on which you can speak. Can the NFL fire players for kneeling? Sure. They don't have a legal obligation to respect "free speech" in the same way that the government has to respect it. Should they, though? I would say not. Sports in America has a history of political participation. I think it would be frankly unamerican if the NFL took such action. But they could if they wanted to. However, I think that this same reasoning needs to apply to other speech platforms, such as Universities. Conservative can't w_ine about talks being cancelled at places like UC Berkeley but then demand the firing of citizens expressing their speech on the football field. . I agree and disagree. I'm all for free speech, I think they have a right to do what they want but I also think trump has a right as an individual to say fire them!. I don't think he should or can use the government to enforce his wishes, the problem lies with his influence as an individual while being president. Should conservatives suck it up, coz they should... But then the left have got to give up this stupid notion of banning people from universities as well, for one it makes them look like morons but on the bigger stage they just don't grasp what happens you start banning shit you personally don't like "Are they even comparable? One is just a bunch of students, although the OU debates have had some pretty interesting characers. Maybe, in the US, University speakers are less debateable? I suppose you have to have criteria for asking guests to speak - for example, I was recently invited to view a video of some Shapro feller talking ostensibly at an American university about gender - the guy had a flimsy grasp on the biology of the subject, to say the least (I'd expect any a-level biologist to be able to refute his assertions with no real problem), so maybe, given that universities are places of learning and there can't be speeches all the time, some selection based on the intellectual merit of the speaker might be worthwhile? | |||
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"There is a fundamental right to freedom of speech and peaceful protest when you realize that Nepotism and unfair conditions exist , the guys have a right to kneel peacefully if they wish to, the constitution guarantees this right. An attempt to condemn them is a violation of the constitution of the land. There is a fundamental problem of the understanding of Melanin , what is it and why is it so powerful, so much so that it comes out on top in every blood mixture , science has failed to educate and address this percieved subconscious problem even though this is the number1 problem subconsciously in everyone's mind. Also science has also failed to address albanism and why there is an inability to produce the melanin in some instances, what causes this inability and why does it exist, also science has not explained why are there so many different languages, how can this be . When all this problems are solved then all issues will resolve itself." If only I'd looked up the thread for a "lack of biology" post to illustrate my point. | |||
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"Excuse my language but "Fuck Trump & his hypocritical shit" He refers to NFL players who refuse to stand as 'Sons of B_' who should be fired. And refers to Nazi racists who killed a woman in Charlottesvile as 'there where good people on both sides' "He does seem much more ready to condemn black sports players than neo-Nazis. Hmmmmmm...... | |||
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"Vitamin D? That's quite abstract
Are you saying we all need to get a tan?". No that's why we evolved different skin colours. White skin absorbs high rates of vitamin d from less active ultra violet levels something needed in cloudier areas, it's why black people suffer from rickets and alike when moving to cloudier climes | |||
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"Excuse my language but "Fuck Trump & his hypocritical shit" He refers to NFL players who refuse to stand as 'Sons of B_' who should be fired. And refers to Nazi racists who killed a woman in Charlottesvile as 'there where good people on both sides'
He does seem much more ready to condemn black sports players than neo-Nazis. Hmmmmmm......"Another great point cheers Jimi | |||
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"Ok. Here's what I think. I think that the first amendment, and free speech more specifically, has been misrepresented in society for too long. People forget that the first amendment only applies to how the US government treats you (it didn't even apply to the individual states until the passing of the 14th amendment following the civil war, but that's a whole different issue). It does not require that private organizations give you a platform on which you can speak. Can the NFL fire players for kneeling? Sure. They don't have a legal obligation to respect "free speech" in the same way that the government has to respect it. Should they, though? I would say not. Sports in America has a history of political participation. I think it would be frankly unamerican if the NFL took such action. But they could if they wanted to. However, I think that this same reasoning needs to apply to other speech platforms, such as Universities. Conservative can't w_ine about talks being cancelled at places like UC Berkeley but then demand the firing of citizens expressing their speech on the football field. . I agree and disagree. I'm all for free speech, I think they have a right to do what they want but I also think trump has a right as an individual to say fire them!. I don't think he should or can use the government to enforce his wishes, the problem lies with his influence as an individual while being president. Should conservatives suck it up, coz they should... But then the left have got to give up this stupid notion of banning people from universities as well, for one it makes them look like morons but on the bigger stage they just don't grasp what happens you start banning shit you personally don't like
Are they even comparable?
One is just a bunch of students, although the OU debates have had some pretty interesting characers.
Maybe, in the US, University speakers are less debateable? I suppose you have to have criteria for asking guests to speak - for example, I was recently invited to view a video of some Shapro feller talking ostensibly at an American university about gender - the guy had a flimsy grasp on the biology of the subject, to say the least (I'd expect any a-level biologist to be able to refute his assertions with no real problem), so maybe, given that universities are places of learning and there can't be speeches all the time, some selection based on the intellectual merit of the speaker might be worthwhile?". This could be true but then you do get stuff like here in the UK where a uni just stopped somebody from researching about people who regret transgender operations and want to swap back because it's not lefty pc allowed  | |||
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"Ok. Here's what I think. I think that the first amendment, and free speech more specifically, has been misrepresented in society for too long. People forget that the first amendment only applies to how the US government treats you (it didn't even apply to the individual states until the passing of the 14th amendment following the civil war, but that's a whole different issue). It does not require that private organizations give you a platform on which you can speak. Can the NFL fire players for kneeling? Sure. They don't have a legal obligation to respect "free speech" in the same way that the government has to respect it. Should they, though? I would say not. Sports in America has a history of political participation. I think it would be frankly unamerican if the NFL took such action. But they could if they wanted to. However, I think that this same reasoning needs to apply to other speech platforms, such as Universities. Conservative can't w_ine about talks being cancelled at places like UC Berkeley but then demand the firing of citizens expressing their speech on the football field. . I agree and disagree. I'm all for free speech, I think they have a right to do what they want but I also think trump has a right as an individual to say fire them!. I don't think he should or can use the government to enforce his wishes, the problem lies with his influence as an individual while being president. Should conservatives suck it up, coz they should... But then the left have got to give up this stupid notion of banning people from universities as well, for one it makes them look like morons but on the bigger stage they just don't grasp what happens you start banning shit you personally don't like
Are they even comparable?
One is just a bunch of students, although the OU debates have had some pretty interesting characers.
Maybe, in the US, University speakers are less debateable? I suppose you have to have criteria for asking guests to speak - for example, I was recently invited to view a video of some Shapro feller talking ostensibly at an American university about gender - the guy had a flimsy grasp on the biology of the subject, to say the least (I'd expect any a-level biologist to be able to refute his assertions with no real problem), so maybe, given that universities are places of learning and there can't be speeches all the time, some selection based on the intellectual merit of the speaker might be worthwhile?.
This could be true but then you do get stuff like here in the UK where a uni just stopped somebody from researching about people who regret transgender operations and want to swap back because it's not lefty pc allowed "What was the actual reason? Did they stop them or did NERC simply not fund it? | |||
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"Ok. Here's what I think. I think that the first amendment, and free speech more specifically, has been misrepresented in society for too long. People forget that the first amendment only applies to how the US government treats you (it didn't even apply to the individual states until the passing of the 14th amendment following the civil war, but that's a whole different issue). It does not require that private organizations give you a platform on which you can speak. Can the NFL fire players for kneeling? Sure. They don't have a legal obligation to respect "free speech" in the same way that the government has to respect it. Should they, though? I would say not. Sports in America has a history of political participation. I think it would be frankly unamerican if the NFL took such action. But they could if they wanted to. However, I think that this same reasoning needs to apply to other speech platforms, such as Universities. Conservative can't w_ine about talks being cancelled at places like UC Berkeley but then demand the firing of citizens expressing their speech on the football field. . I agree and disagree. I'm all for free speech, I think they have a right to do what they want but I also think trump has a right as an individual to say fire them!. I don't think he should or can use the government to enforce his wishes, the problem lies with his influence as an individual while being president. Should conservatives suck it up, coz they should... But then the left have got to give up this stupid notion of banning people from universities as well, for one it makes them look like morons but on the bigger stage they just don't grasp what happens you start banning shit you personally don't like
Are they even comparable?
One is just a bunch of students, although the OU debates have had some pretty interesting characers.
Maybe, in the US, University speakers are less debateable? I suppose you have to have criteria for asking guests to speak - for example, I was recently invited to view a video of some Shapro feller talking ostensibly at an American university about gender - the guy had a flimsy grasp on the biology of the subject, to say the least (I'd expect any a-level biologist to be able to refute his assertions with no real problem), so maybe, given that universities are places of learning and there can't be speeches all the time, some selection based on the intellectual merit of the speaker might be worthwhile?.
This could be true but then you do get stuff like here in the UK where a uni just stopped somebody from researching about people who regret transgender operations and want to swap back because it's not lefty pc allowed
What was the actual reason? Did they stop them or did NERC simply not fund it?". A therapist says he is "astonished" by a university's decision to stop him studying people who decide to reverse gender reassignment operations. James Caspian wanted to write a thesis on "detransition" as part of his master's degree in counselling and psychotherapy at Bath Spa University. He said it was rejected by the university's ethics committee because it could be "politically incorrect". The university said it couldn't comment until after an internal investigation. Mr Caspian, a counsellor who specialises in therapy for transgender people, told Radio 4: "I was astonished at that decision. "I think that a university exists to encourage discussion, research - dissent even, challenging perhaps ideas that are out of date or not particularly useful." He says he wanted to study people who had swapped gender and then changed their minds after coming across evidence of a growing number of people who regretted having the surgery and finding no research had been done into the subject..... BBC website today | |||
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"Ok. Here's what I think. I think that the first amendment, and free speech more specifically, has been misrepresented in society for too long. People forget that the first amendment only applies to how the US government treats you (it didn't even apply to the individual states until the passing of the 14th amendment following the civil war, but that's a whole different issue). It does not require that private organizations give you a platform on which you can speak. Can the NFL fire players for kneeling? Sure. They don't have a legal obligation to respect "free speech" in the same way that the government has to respect it. Should they, though? I would say not. Sports in America has a history of political participation. I think it would be frankly unamerican if the NFL took such action. But they could if they wanted to. However, I think that this same reasoning needs to apply to other speech platforms, such as Universities. Conservative can't w_ine about talks being cancelled at places like UC Berkeley but then demand the firing of citizens expressing their speech on the football field. . I agree and disagree. I'm all for free speech, I think they have a right to do what they want but I also think trump has a right as an individual to say fire them!. I don't think he should or can use the government to enforce his wishes, the problem lies with his influence as an individual while being president. Should conservatives suck it up, coz they should... But then the left have got to give up this stupid notion of banning people from universities as well, for one it makes them look like morons but on the bigger stage they just don't grasp what happens you start banning shit you personally don't like
Are they even comparable?
One is just a bunch of students, although the OU debates have had some pretty interesting characers.
Maybe, in the US, University speakers are less debateable? I suppose you have to have criteria for asking guests to speak - for example, I was recently invited to view a video of some Shapro feller talking ostensibly at an American university about gender - the guy had a flimsy grasp on the biology of the subject, to say the least (I'd expect any a-level biologist to be able to refute his assertions with no real problem), so maybe, given that universities are places of learning and there can't be speeches all the time, some selection based on the intellectual merit of the speaker might be worthwhile?.
This could be true but then you do get stuff like here in the UK where a uni just stopped somebody from researching about people who regret transgender operations and want to swap back because it's not lefty pc allowed
What was the actual reason? Did they stop them or did NERC simply not fund it?.
A therapist says he is "astonished" by a university's decision to stop him studying people who decide to reverse gender reassignment operations.
James Caspian wanted to write a thesis on "detransition" as part of his master's degree in counselling and psychotherapy at Bath Spa University.
He said it was rejected by the university's ethics committee because it could be "politically incorrect".
The university said it couldn't comment until after an internal investigation.
Mr Caspian, a counsellor who specialises in therapy for transgender people, told Radio 4: "I was astonished at that decision.
"I think that a university exists to encourage discussion, research - dissent even, challenging perhaps ideas that are out of date or not particularly useful."
He says he wanted to study people who had swapped gender and then changed their minds after coming across evidence of a growing number of people who regretted having the surgery and finding no research had been done into the subject.....
BBC website today"So basically we have no idea why. Also; its only for an MSc (MA?) it's not like it's research that's likley to make it into publication, I'd be more annoyed if it was postdoc work. | |||
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"Err...Sick-Boy... If you want to start a discussion about that, start a new thread... This is a thread about the exercise of Freedom of Speech according to AMERICAN LAW and the US CONSTITUTION. Last I checked, Bath Spa University's Academic Ethics Committee was subject to NEITHER." Debates diverge, you know. Block capitals for emplasis, eh? | |||
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"Ok. Here's what I think. I think that the first amendment, and free speech more specifically, has been misrepresented in society for too long. People forget that the first amendment only applies to how the US government treats you (it didn't even apply to the individual states until the passing of the 14th amendment following the civil war, but that's a whole different issue). It does not require that private organizations give you a platform on which you can speak. Can the NFL fire players for kneeling? Sure. They don't have a legal obligation to respect "free speech" in the same way that the government has to respect it. Should they, though? I would say not. Sports in America has a history of political participation. I think it would be frankly unamerican if the NFL took such action. But they could if they wanted to. However, I think that this same reasoning needs to apply to other speech platforms, such as Universities. Conservative can't w_ine about talks being cancelled at places like UC Berkeley but then demand the firing of citizens expressing their speech on the football field. . I agree and disagree. I'm all for free speech, I think they have a right to do what they want but I also think trump has a right as an individual to say fire them!. I don't think he should or can use the government to enforce his wishes, the problem lies with his influence as an individual while being president. Should conservatives suck it up, coz they should... But then the left have got to give up this stupid notion of banning people from universities as well, for one it makes them look like morons but on the bigger stage they just don't grasp what happens you start banning shit you personally don't like
Are they even comparable?
One is just a bunch of students, although the OU debates have had some pretty interesting characers.
Maybe, in the US, University speakers are less debateable? I suppose you have to have criteria for asking guests to speak - for example, I was recently invited to view a video of some Shapro feller talking ostensibly at an American university about gender - the guy had a flimsy grasp on the biology of the subject, to say the least (I'd expect any a-level biologist to be able to refute his assertions with no real problem), so maybe, given that universities are places of learning and there can't be speeches all the time, some selection based on the intellectual merit of the speaker might be worthwhile?.
This could be true but then you do get stuff like here in the UK where a uni just stopped somebody from researching about people who regret transgender operations and want to swap back because it's not lefty pc allowed
What was the actual reason? Did they stop them or did NERC simply not fund it?.
A therapist says he is "astonished" by a university's decision to stop him studying people who decide to reverse gender reassignment operations.
James Caspian wanted to write a thesis on "detransition" as part of his master's degree in counselling and psychotherapy at Bath Spa University.
He said it was rejected by the university's ethics committee because it could be "politically incorrect".
The university said it couldn't comment until after an internal investigation.
Mr Caspian, a counsellor who specialises in therapy for transgender people, told Radio 4: "I was astonished at that decision.
"I think that a university exists to encourage discussion, research - dissent even, challenging perhaps ideas that are out of date or not particularly useful."
He says he wanted to study people who had swapped gender and then changed their minds after coming across evidence of a growing number of people who regretted having the surgery and finding no research had been done into the subject.....
BBC website today"Detransexual. Is this an option on Fab yet? (Asking for a friend ) | |||
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"Err...Sick-Boy... If you want to start a discussion about that, start a new thread... This is a thread about the exercise of Freedom of Speech according to AMERICAN LAW and the US CONSTITUTION. Last I checked, Bath Spa University's Academic Ethics Committee was subject to NEITHER." . Oh lord give me strength .
Errr it's called a conversation where somebody asks me something and I reply and he replies and it evolves...
I beg forgiveness from your excellency and wish you God speed | |||
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"Can the NFL fire players for kneeling? Sure. Trump has a right as an individual to say fire them!" Actually, Marc.Courtney and Sick-Boy, both of these statements are wrong... The NFL CANNOT fire players for kneeling, and the Trump's 'fire them' shout came during a speech wherein he was speaking in his capacity as POTUS, not as a private individual. I say again, the SCOTUS ruled in 1943 that "NO OFFICIAL, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion." This ruling was made with respect to Jehovah's Witnesses' refusal to participate in the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance. Just as School Districts cannot force JWs to participate in the Pledge, the NFL CANNOT fire players who #takeaknee, and Trump CANNOT, in his capacity as POTUS, induce them to do so. | |||
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