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Power
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The power differential is the inherently greater power and influence that helping professionals have as compared to the people they help. Understanding both the value and the many impacts of the power differential is the core of ethical awareness. People seeking help are in a position in which they must trust in the knowledge and guidance of their caregiver. This results in a greater-than-ordinary vulnerability. Consequently, people are unusually susceptible to harm and confusion through misuses (either under- or overuse) of power and influence."
How do you effectively minimise the impact of power differentials in your life, when you're in the position of power? What about balancing alongside budget, time, regulations that aren't fit for purpose, or unboundaried others?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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At the end of the day it is the individuals character that matters. Those who crave adoration, who get off on using power, who cant handle the attraction of vulnerable folks to a powerful person will ultimately not make the cut.
Bit like psychaitrists whp are trained andexolicitly toldnot to indulge those who put them on a pedestal or fall in love etc.
Still it happens. All the training and all the rules camt stop a weak person in position of power |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"At the end of the day it is the individuals character that matters. Those who crave adoration, who get off on using power, who cant handle the attraction of vulnerable folks to a powerful person will ultimately not make the cut.
Bit like psychaitrists whp are trained andexolicitly toldnot to indulge those who put them on a pedestal or fall in love etc.
Still it happens. All the training and all the rules camt stop a weak person in position of power"
That's an interesting direction to take it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I thought this was about the show 
I don't generally ask for help or support. Hate asking people for help or feeling like i owe someone.
My wife gave me some money after she came into a big payout, and after a row when I threatened to leave she brought up wanting it back  we are both clear it was a gift but she'll get it back. Hate feeling like I owe anyone anything  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This all sounds a little to familiar to my profession. And unfortunately too many people with power in my profession are corrupt, at all levels, as well as the policies, procedures, regulations and standards not fit for purpose.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I thought this was about the show
I don't generally ask for help or support. Hate asking people for help or feeling like i owe someone.
My wife gave me some money after she came into a big payout, and after a row when I threatened to leave she brought up wanting it back we are both clear it was a gift but she'll get it back. Hate feeling like I owe anyone anything "
I do find Tommy hilarious!
I meant more in a work context, when you are the one in power. Was just thinking. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"This all sounds a little to familiar to my profession. And unfortunately too many people with power in my profession are corrupt, at all levels, as well as the policies, procedures, regulations and standards not fit for purpose. "
I see burnout, fatigue at the inability to change things substantially for people, and a slow inoculating against continuing to care in the face of that. I'm just wondering how we counter that for staff. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I thought this was about the show
I don't generally ask for help or support. Hate asking people for help or feeling like i owe someone.
My wife gave me some money after she came into a big payout, and after a row when I threatened to leave she brought up wanting it back we are both clear it was a gift but she'll get it back. Hate feeling like I owe anyone anything
I do find Tommy hilarious!
I meant more in a work context, when you are the one in power. Was just thinking. "
At work I am considered a senior manager ( ) but in no way abuse the power. Sometimes it's important to share the power, sometimes it's important to empower and sometimes it's good to deceive others into thinking they have the power when they don't
Successful power plays are about far more give than take though |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I thought this was about the show
I don't generally ask for help or support. Hate asking people for help or feeling like i owe someone.
My wife gave me some money after she came into a big payout, and after a row when I threatened to leave she brought up wanting it back we are both clear it was a gift but she'll get it back. Hate feeling like I owe anyone anything
I do find Tommy hilarious!
I meant more in a work context, when you are the one in power. Was just thinking.
At work I am considered a senior manager ( ) but in no way abuse the power. Sometimes it's important to share the power, sometimes it's important to empower and sometimes it's good to deceive others into thinking they have the power when they don't
Successful power plays are about far more give than take though "
But from the perspective of a caring profession to those in need, or are you talking more work politics with other staff? I'm meaning the former. And not so much about intentional abuse. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This all sounds a little to familiar to my profession. And unfortunately too many people with power in my profession are corrupt, at all levels, as well as the policies, procedures, regulations and standards not fit for purpose.
I see burnout, fatigue at the inability to change things substantially for people, and a slow inoculating against continuing to care in the face of that. I'm just wondering how we counter that for staff. "
If you are secure, then you can let staff take more responsibility and empower them. If you arent, then you become a nervous worrying wreck |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
As a former Army officer, it was never about power.
It was about Values and Standards.
broken down by;
Courage
Discipline
Respect for Others
Integrity
Loyalty
Selfless Committment.
It breaks down in to the leadership code. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"This all sounds a little to familiar to my profession. And unfortunately too many people with power in my profession are corrupt, at all levels, as well as the policies, procedures, regulations and standards not fit for purpose.
I see burnout, fatigue at the inability to change things substantially for people, and a slow inoculating against continuing to care in the face of that. I'm just wondering how we counter that for staff.
If you are secure, then you can let staff take more responsibility and empower them. If you arent, then you become a nervous worrying wreck"
I'm talking more about the power differential between professional and service user. Not staff to staff. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This all sounds a little to familiar to my profession. And unfortunately too many people with power in my profession are corrupt, at all levels, as well as the policies, procedures, regulations and standards not fit for purpose.
I see burnout, fatigue at the inability to change things substantially for people, and a slow inoculating against continuing to care in the face of that. I'm just wondering how we counter that for staff. "
You can't, the entire system needs change, and sadly I see it failing catastrophically before it does.
I see too many power crazy people, or those with delusions of grandeur, and those who bend rules etc to their own benefit, and a system brought to it's knees by such people.
Including those who are meant to monitor and protect it...
What I seriously don't understand, is how only those on the front line see it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This all sounds a little to familiar to my profession. And unfortunately too many people with power in my profession are corrupt, at all levels, as well as the policies, procedures, regulations and standards not fit for purpose.
I see burnout, fatigue at the inability to change things substantially for people, and a slow inoculating against continuing to care in the face of that. I'm just wondering how we counter that for staff.
If you are secure, then you can let staff take more responsibility and empower them. If you arent, then you become a nervous worrying wreck
I'm talking more about the power differential between professional and service user. Not staff to staff."
I think it works at all levels across all key stake holders, as well as those who are meant to monitor and protect the system.
It's corrupt from bottom to top in my opinion... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" But from the perspective of a caring profession to those in need, or are you talking more work politics with other staff? I'm meaning the former. And not so much about intentional abuse. "
I don't condone abuse of power, particularly where minors or vulnerable adults are concerned in any form. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"As a former Army officer, it was never about power.
It was about Values and Standards.
broken down by;
Courage
Discipline
Respect for Others
Integrity
Loyalty
Selfless Committment.
It breaks down in to the leadership code."
Yes, and how do you ensure those values at all times with external pressures -- think more in a caring profession role so the power differential is to a patient, or a service user. How do you maintain a balance of say customer care with respect when you are overworked, caring for a high caseload and under resourced?
I'm just thinking, indulge me.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"This all sounds a little to familiar to my profession. And unfortunately too many people with power in my profession are corrupt, at all levels, as well as the policies, procedures, regulations and standards not fit for purpose.
I see burnout, fatigue at the inability to change things substantially for people, and a slow inoculating against continuing to care in the face of that. I'm just wondering how we counter that for staff.
You can't, the entire system needs change, and sadly I see it failing catastrophically before it does.
I see too many power crazy people, or those with delusions of grandeur, and those who bend rules etc to their own benefit, and a system brought to it's knees by such people.
Including those who are meant to monitor and protect it...
What I seriously don't understand, is how only those on the front line see it."
Yes. I'm particularly thinking around homelessness currently. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tbh where ever there is power...there will always be abusers of that power not far away.
So what do you propose?"
You are asking for a answer that is neigh impossible to give...I have been in the system a little as you know.
I have seen the abuse of power as at one point I as you call it was a service user.
I took a misuse of power as high as you could possibly take. But the system will always backup the higher power...and I'm not talking in the AA sense. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"This is an essay topic isn't it?  "
Yeah, I did that ponder thing and thought I'd test it out here and get some ideas. I use the forum for this sometimes.  |
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People and situations can, usually, only have power over you if you let them.
Going to someone in a position of 'power' is best when we choose the best people we need.
For health we turn to health experts who. should be, beyond using their 'power'.
This can translate to having a crap boss. We can try to change our work/career.
If we are in a position of 'power' then we should remember what it is like to feel powerless and not abuse our current position |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
" But from the perspective of a caring profession to those in need, or are you talking more work politics with other staff? I'm meaning the former. And not so much about intentional abuse.
I don't condone abuse of power, particularly where minors or vulnerable adults are concerned in any form."
I don't think I know anyone (personally) who does. But how can you be sure your boundary setting (say leaving work on time) isn't abusing that client who has to wait for help till you return? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This all sounds a little to familiar to my profession. And unfortunately too many people with power in my profession are corrupt, at all levels, as well as the policies, procedures, regulations and standards not fit for purpose.
I see burnout, fatigue at the inability to change things substantially for people, and a slow inoculating against continuing to care in the face of that. I'm just wondering how we counter that for staff.
You can't, the entire system needs change, and sadly I see it failing catastrophically before it does.
I see too many power crazy people, or those with delusions of grandeur, and those who bend rules etc to their own benefit, and a system brought to it's knees by such people.
Including those who are meant to monitor and protect it...
What I seriously don't understand, is how only those on the front line see it.
Yes. I'm particularly thinking around homelessness currently. "
Sadly I see little to no change happening the day after never |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As a former Army officer, it was never about power.
It was about Values and Standards.
broken down by;
Courage
Discipline
Respect for Others
Integrity
Loyalty
Selfless Committment.
It breaks down in to the leadership code.
Yes, and how do you ensure those values at all times with external pressures -- think more in a caring profession role so the power differential is to a patient, or a service user. How do you maintain a balance of say customer care with respect when you are overworked, caring for a high caseload and under resourced?
I'm just thinking, indulge me. "
Apply each one, you will do it then. It works if you are over worked use courage and integrity to make the fact known.
Use selfless committment to make sure the job gets done.
Use discipline and respect for others to keep professional throughout.
Use loyalty for the people involved (employer/customer) |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Tbh where ever there is power...there will always be abusers of that power not far away.
So what do you propose?
You are asking for a answer that is neigh impossible to give...I have been in the system a little as you know.
I have seen the abuse of power as at one point I as you call it was a service user.
I took a misuse of power as high as you could possibly take. But the system will always backup the higher power...and I'm not talking in the AA sense."
Sometimes you just can't do everything a client wants. That's a tough one to face. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" But from the perspective of a caring profession to those in need, or are you talking more work politics with other staff? I'm meaning the former. And not so much about intentional abuse.
I don't condone abuse of power, particularly where minors or vulnerable adults are concerned in any form.
I don't think I know anyone (personally) who does. But how can you be sure your boundary setting (say leaving work on time) isn't abusing that client who has to wait for help till you return? "
By ensuring that their reliance on the system is actually on a system and not me as an individual |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I have no doubt if this is for a essay you will get the right answers from some one here....but that will never give you the true answer as there isn't one. |
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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
I have 3 staff. The responsibily for the work thet're doing is mine. If they knacker anything the buck doesn't stop with them; it stops with me.
I love my staff. They're great people and well trained and professional. But some people use the power gifted to them by the public sector to bully others into keeping a job they can't do. We have to be so careful about what we say and how we say it.
Power isn't an 'us vs them' scenario. We all have power over someone. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"People and situations can, usually, only have power over you if you let them.
Going to someone in a position of 'power' is best when we choose the best people we need.
For health we turn to health experts who. should be, beyond using their 'power'.
This can translate to having a crap boss. We can try to change our work/career.
If we are in a position of 'power' then we should remember what it is like to feel powerless and not abuse our current position "
I like the sentiment of the first sentence, and I do know what you mean, but I also agree it's not always the case. I would be doing clients a huge injustice to have them subscribe to that notion, it's tantamount (for me) to asking someone with severe depression to pull themselves together. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I can solve this for you;
P=I2 X R
Well hello we have an Electrical Engineer here!watt!!!!
Stop resisting the power, you'll only impede me!
Ohm my god. Someone always takes things on a tangent."
obvious cosine.... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"As a former Army officer, it was never about power.
It was about Values and Standards.
broken down by;
Courage
Discipline
Respect for Others
Integrity
Loyalty
Selfless Committment.
It breaks down in to the leadership code.
Yes, and how do you ensure those values at all times with external pressures -- think more in a caring profession role so the power differential is to a patient, or a service user. How do you maintain a balance of say customer care with respect when you are overworked, caring for a high caseload and under resourced?
I'm just thinking, indulge me.
Apply each one, you will do it then. It works if you are over worked use courage and integrity to make the fact known.
Use selfless committment to make sure the job gets done.
Use discipline and respect for others to keep professional throughout.
Use loyalty for the people involved (employer/customer)"
Nice sentiment. |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
" But from the perspective of a caring profession to those in need, or are you talking more work politics with other staff? I'm meaning the former. And not so much about intentional abuse.
I don't condone abuse of power, particularly where minors or vulnerable adults are concerned in any form.
I don't think I know anyone (personally) who does. But how can you be sure your boundary setting (say leaving work on time) isn't abusing that client who has to wait for help till you return?
By ensuring that their reliance on the system is actually on a system and not me as an individual "
But the system is broke. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I have no doubt if this is for a essay you will get the right answers from some one here....but that will never give you the true answer as there isn't one."
My question wasn't seeking a true answer...I asked people what they do to minimise power differentials. That's anecdotal. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As a former Army officer, it was never about power.
It was about Values and Standards.
broken down by;
Courage
Discipline
Respect for Others
Integrity
Loyalty
Selfless Committment.
It breaks down in to the leadership code.
Yes, and how do you ensure those values at all times with external pressures -- think more in a caring profession role so the power differential is to a patient, or a service user. How do you maintain a balance of say customer care with respect when you are overworked, caring for a high caseload and under resourced?
I'm just thinking, indulge me.
Apply each one, you will do it then. It works if you are over worked use courage and integrity to make the fact known.
Use selfless committment to make sure the job gets done.
Use discipline and respect for others to keep professional throughout.
Use loyalty for the people involved (employer/customer)
Nice sentiment."
It's worked for me as a teacher. I have pressures, perhaps not as intense as you have? but if you use training and drills you will always achieve your goal. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I have 3 staff. The responsibily for the work thet're doing is mine. If they knacker anything the buck doesn't stop with them; it stops with me.
I love my staff. They're great people and well trained and professional. But some people use the power gifted to them by the public sector to bully others into keeping a job they can't do. We have to be so careful about what we say and how we say it.
Power isn't an 'us vs them' scenario. We all have power over someone. "
We absolutely do.
How do you balance things? |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" But from the perspective of a caring profession to those in need, or are you talking more work politics with other staff? I'm meaning the former. And not so much about intentional abuse.
I don't condone abuse of power, particularly where minors or vulnerable adults are concerned in any form.
I don't think I know anyone (personally) who does. But how can you be sure your boundary setting (say leaving work on time) isn't abusing that client who has to wait for help till you return?
By ensuring that their reliance on the system is actually on a system and not me as an individual
But the system is broke."
Difficult situation. I'm a public sector worker, in a clearly broken system, and its a constant balancing/juggling act between targets, personal pride, work life balance, right vs wrong, being able to justify actions vs being accountable to my manager (and responsible for the team) etc. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tbh where ever there is power...there will always be abusers of that power not far away.
So what do you propose?
You are asking for a answer that is neigh impossible to give...I have been in the system a little as you know.
I have seen the abuse of power as at one point I as you call it was a service user.
I took a misuse of power as high as you could possibly take. But the system will always backup the higher power...and I'm not talking in the AA sense.
Sometimes you just can't do everything a client wants. That's a tough one to face. "
I'm talking about abuse of power that put some of the service users in real danger by the head of the service who was protecting her daughter from getting the sack....for shagging half the service users whist on duty.
The daughter did get sacked...but nothing happen to the mother stayed in place in her job.
So I certainly don't take any comfort in your statement about the client. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"As a former Army officer, it was never about power.
It was about Values and Standards.
broken down by;
Courage
Discipline
Respect for Others
Integrity
Loyalty
Selfless Committment.
It breaks down in to the leadership code.
Yes, and how do you ensure those values at all times with external pressures -- think more in a caring profession role so the power differential is to a patient, or a service user. How do you maintain a balance of say customer care with respect when you are overworked, caring for a high caseload and under resourced?
I'm just thinking, indulge me.
Apply each one, you will do it then. It works if you are over worked use courage and integrity to make the fact known.
Use selfless committment to make sure the job gets done.
Use discipline and respect for others to keep professional throughout.
Use loyalty for the people involved (employer/customer)
Nice sentiment.
It's worked for me as a teacher. I have pressures, perhaps not as intense as you have? but if you use training and drills you will always achieve your goal."
Being a teacher is a brilliant example. And no less pressured, intense or subject to external pressures and the potential to wield power in a damaging way over the kids. |
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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
"I have 3 staff. The responsibily for the work thet're doing is mine. If they knacker anything the buck doesn't stop with them; it stops with me.
I love my staff. They're great people and well trained and professional. But some people use the power gifted to them by the public sector to bully others into keeping a job they can't do. We have to be so careful about what we say and how we say it.
Power isn't an 'us vs them' scenario. We all have power over someone.
We absolutely do.
How do you balance things?"
How do you mean? |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
" But from the perspective of a caring profession to those in need, or are you talking more work politics with other staff? I'm meaning the former. And not so much about intentional abuse.
I don't condone abuse of power, particularly where minors or vulnerable adults are concerned in any form.
I don't think I know anyone (personally) who does. But how can you be sure your boundary setting (say leaving work on time) isn't abusing that client who has to wait for help till you return?
By ensuring that their reliance on the system is actually on a system and not me as an individual
But the system is broke.
Difficult situation. I'm a public sector worker, in a clearly broken system, and its a constant balancing/juggling act between targets, personal pride, work life balance, right vs wrong, being able to justify actions vs being accountable to my manager (and responsible for the team) etc."
Nods. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Tbh where ever there is power...there will always be abusers of that power not far away.
So what do you propose?
You are asking for a answer that is neigh impossible to give...I have been in the system a little as you know.
I have seen the abuse of power as at one point I as you call it was a service user.
I took a misuse of power as high as you could possibly take. But the system will always backup the higher power...and I'm not talking in the AA sense.
Sometimes you just can't do everything a client wants. That's a tough one to face.
I'm talking about abuse of power that put some of the service users in real danger by the head of the service who was protecting her daughter from getting the sack....for shagging half the service users whist on duty.
The daughter did get sacked...but nothing happen to the mother stayed in place in her job.
So I certainly don't take any comfort in your statement about the client."
Of course you don't. My statement was not about your scenario, was it?! |
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"People and situations can, usually, only have power over you if you let them.
Going to someone in a position of 'power' is best when we choose the best people we need.
For health we turn to health experts who. should be, beyond using their 'power'.
This can translate to having a crap boss. We can try to change our work/career.
If we are in a position of 'power' then we should remember what it is like to feel powerless and not abuse our current position
I like the sentiment of the first sentence, and I do know what you mean, but I also agree it's not always the case. I would be doing clients a huge injustice to have them subscribe to that notion, it's tantamount (for me) to asking someone with severe depression to pull themselves together. "
But in the case of a mental health professional the depressed person is allowing them to have power over them, in order for them to help them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As a former Army officer, it was never about power.
It was about Values and Standards.
broken down by;
Courage
Discipline
Respect for Others
Integrity
Loyalty
Selfless Committment.
It breaks down in to the leadership code.
Yes, and how do you ensure those values at all times with external pressures -- think more in a caring profession role so the power differential is to a patient, or a service user. How do you maintain a balance of say customer care with respect when you are overworked, caring for a high caseload and under resourced?
I'm just thinking, indulge me.
Apply each one, you will do it then. It works if you are over worked use courage and integrity to make the fact known.
Use selfless committment to make sure the job gets done.
Use discipline and respect for others to keep professional throughout.
Use loyalty for the people involved (employer/customer)
Nice sentiment.
It's worked for me as a teacher. I have pressures, perhaps not as intense as you have? but if you use training and drills you will always achieve your goal.
Being a teacher is a brilliant example. And no less pressured, intense or subject to external pressures and the potential to wield power in a damaging way over the kids. "
The same theory works for a group of disheartened soldiers in a foreign country missing home, as the techniques I apply to my learners at work. I get pretty good results. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I have 3 staff. The responsibily for the work thet're doing is mine. If they knacker anything the buck doesn't stop with them; it stops with me.
I love my staff. They're great people and well trained and professional. But some people use the power gifted to them by the public sector to bully others into keeping a job they can't do. We have to be so careful about what we say and how we say it.
Power isn't an 'us vs them' scenario. We all have power over someone.
We absolutely do.
How do you balance things?
How do you mean?"
To ensure you aren't abusive? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"People and situations can, usually, only have power over you if you let them.
Going to someone in a position of 'power' is best when we choose the best people we need.
For health we turn to health experts who. should be, beyond using their 'power'.
This can translate to having a crap boss. We can try to change our work/career.
If we are in a position of 'power' then we should remember what it is like to feel powerless and not abuse our current position
I like the sentiment of the first sentence, and I do know what you mean, but I also agree it's not always the case. I would be doing clients a huge injustice to have them subscribe to that notion, it's tantamount (for me) to asking someone with severe depression to pull themselves together.
But in the case of a mental health professional the depressed person is allowing them to have power over them, in order for them to help them."
Not necessarily. |
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"People and situations can, usually, only have power over you if you let them.
Going to someone in a position of 'power' is best when we choose the best people we need.
For health we turn to health experts who. should be, beyond using their 'power'.
This can translate to having a crap boss. We can try to change our work/career.
If we are in a position of 'power' then we should remember what it is like to feel powerless and not abuse our current position
I like the sentiment of the first sentence, and I do know what you mean, but I also agree it's not always the case. I would be doing clients a huge injustice to have them subscribe to that notion, it's tantamount (for me) to asking someone with severe depression to pull themselves together.
But in the case of a mental health professional the depressed person is allowing them to have power over them, in order for them to help them.
Not necessarily."
And they have chosen the best people they need in that scenario.
Oh |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"As a former Army officer, it was never about power.
It was about Values and Standards.
broken down by;
Courage
Discipline
Respect for Others
Integrity
Loyalty
Selfless Committment.
It breaks down in to the leadership code.
Yes, and how do you ensure those values at all times with external pressures -- think more in a caring profession role so the power differential is to a patient, or a service user. How do you maintain a balance of say customer care with respect when you are overworked, caring for a high caseload and under resourced?
I'm just thinking, indulge me.
Apply each one, you will do it then. It works if you are over worked use courage and integrity to make the fact known.
Use selfless committment to make sure the job gets done.
Use discipline and respect for others to keep professional throughout.
Use loyalty for the people involved (employer/customer)
Nice sentiment.
It's worked for me as a teacher. I have pressures, perhaps not as intense as you have? but if you use training and drills you will always achieve your goal.
Being a teacher is a brilliant example. And no less pressured, intense or subject to external pressures and the potential to wield power in a damaging way over the kids.
The same theory works for a group of disheartened soldiers in a foreign country missing home, as the techniques I apply to my learners at work. I get pretty good results."
Except, forgive me playing devil's advocate, we don't really ever know the impact we've had on another though do we -- good or bad, intentional or not...? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"People and situations can, usually, only have power over you if you let them.
Going to someone in a position of 'power' is best when we choose the best people we need.
For health we turn to health experts who. should be, beyond using their 'power'.
This can translate to having a crap boss. We can try to change our work/career.
If we are in a position of 'power' then we should remember what it is like to feel powerless and not abuse our current position
I like the sentiment of the first sentence, and I do know what you mean, but I also agree it's not always the case. I would be doing clients a huge injustice to have them subscribe to that notion, it's tantamount (for me) to asking someone with severe depression to pull themselves together.
But in the case of a mental health professional the depressed person is allowing them to have power over them, in order for them to help them.
Not necessarily.
And they have chosen the best people they need in that scenario.
Oh"
Xx |
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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
"I have 3 staff. The responsibily for the work thet're doing is mine. If they knacker anything the buck doesn't stop with them; it stops with me.
I love my staff. They're great people and well trained and professional. But some people use the power gifted to them by the public sector to bully others into keeping a job they can't do. We have to be so careful about what we say and how we say it.
Power isn't an 'us vs them' scenario. We all have power over someone.
We absolutely do.
How do you balance things?
How do you mean?
To ensure you aren't abusive? "
I dont believe 'abusive' is a viable management system. I work in the Civil Service. Most of us are decent people.
I love being a manager. Managing 3 people is childs play compared to running a restaurant. You meet some power crazed loons working in that industry, I can tell you. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I can solve this for you;
P=I2 X R
Well hello we have an Electrical Engineer here!watt!!!!
Stop resisting the power, you'll only impede me!
Ohm my god. Someone always takes things on a tangent.
obvious cosine...."
Surge protection...that always controls Power going off on one |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As a former Army officer, it was never about power.
It was about Values and Standards.
broken down by;
Courage
Discipline
Respect for Others
Integrity
Loyalty
Selfless Committment.
It breaks down in to the leadership code.
Yes, and how do you ensure those values at all times with external pressures -- think more in a caring profession role so the power differential is to a patient, or a service user. How do you maintain a balance of say customer care with respect when you are overworked, caring for a high caseload and under resourced?
I'm just thinking, indulge me.
Apply each one, you will do it then. It works if you are over worked use courage and integrity to make the fact known.
Use selfless committment to make sure the job gets done.
Use discipline and respect for others to keep professional throughout.
Use loyalty for the people involved (employer/customer)
Nice sentiment.
It's worked for me as a teacher. I have pressures, perhaps not as intense as you have? but if you use training and drills you will always achieve your goal.
Being a teacher is a brilliant example. And no less pressured, intense or subject to external pressures and the potential to wield power in a damaging way over the kids.
The same theory works for a group of disheartened soldiers in a foreign country missing home, as the techniques I apply to my learners at work. I get pretty good results.
Except, forgive me playing devil's advocate, we don't really ever know the impact we've had on another though do we -- good or bad, intentional or not...?"
Good point, well presented. However we can measure the output of said people and judge how successful we are as a leader (note I didn't say manager).
Not blowing my trumpet, but people always seemed happy working with me. My learners are always reasonable, well behaved and generally happy to see me. I feel I must be doing something right? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I have 3 staff. The responsibily for the work thet're doing is mine. If they knacker anything the buck doesn't stop with them; it stops with me.
I love my staff. They're great people and well trained and professional. But some people use the power gifted to them by the public sector to bully others into keeping a job they can't do. We have to be so careful about what we say and how we say it.
Power isn't an 'us vs them' scenario. We all have power over someone.
We absolutely do.
How do you balance things?
How do you mean?
To ensure you aren't abusive?
I dont believe 'abusive' is a viable management system. I work in the Civil Service. Most of us are decent people.
I love being a manager. Managing 3 people is childs play compared to running a restaurant. You meet some power crazed loons working in that industry, I can tell you."
 I can imagine!
I guess I'm picking around the edges of abuse and not the obvious stuff, the grey nuanced stuff. Really just having a good old ruminate while trying innovate some stuff. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I'm talking more about the power differential between professional and service user. Not staff to staff."
Okay, so I am in a profession where my particular expertise frequently present opportunities where if I were so inclined to take advantage of many of my customers lack of knowledge and need to place trust in me, I could abuse that and make significantly more money by basically lying and they would be none the wiser. Is that a valid example? |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"As a former Army officer, it was never about power.
It was about Values and Standards.
broken down by;
Courage
Discipline
Respect for Others
Integrity
Loyalty
Selfless Committment.
It breaks down in to the leadership code.
Yes, and how do you ensure those values at all times with external pressures -- think more in a caring profession role so the power differential is to a patient, or a service user. How do you maintain a balance of say customer care with respect when you are overworked, caring for a high caseload and under resourced?
I'm just thinking, indulge me.
Apply each one, you will do it then. It works if you are over worked use courage and integrity to make the fact known.
Use selfless committment to make sure the job gets done.
Use discipline and respect for others to keep professional throughout.
Use loyalty for the people involved (employer/customer)
Nice sentiment.
It's worked for me as a teacher. I have pressures, perhaps not as intense as you have? but if you use training and drills you will always achieve your goal.
Being a teacher is a brilliant example. And no less pressured, intense or subject to external pressures and the potential to wield power in a damaging way over the kids.
The same theory works for a group of disheartened soldiers in a foreign country missing home, as the techniques I apply to my learners at work. I get pretty good results.
Except, forgive me playing devil's advocate, we don't really ever know the impact we've had on another though do we -- good or bad, intentional or not...?
Good point, well presented. However we can measure the output of said people and judge how successful we are as a leader (note I didn't say manager).
Not blowing my trumpet, but people always seemed happy working with me. My learners are always reasonable, well behaved and generally happy to see me. I feel I must be doing something right?"
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I'm talking more about the power differential between professional and service user. Not staff to staff.
Okay, so I am in a profession where my particular expertise frequently present opportunities where if I were so inclined to take advantage of many of my customers lack of knowledge and need to place trust in me, I could abuse that and make significantly more money by basically lying and they would be none the wiser. Is that a valid example?"
I think it proves your loyalty and integrity for sure. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
I'm talking more about the power differential between professional and service user. Not staff to staff.
Okay, so I am in a profession where my particular expertise frequently present opportunities where if I were so inclined to take advantage of many of my customers lack of knowledge and need to place trust in me, I could abuse that and make significantly more money by basically lying and they would be none the wiser. Is that a valid example?"
Everyone has made examples that are valid, my question was re power differentials in your life -- so yes.
Where my problem is originating though (why I was pondering thus) is when dealing with high volumes of distressed, vulnerable people when you can't necessarily make things better. |
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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
" I can imagine!
I guess I'm picking around the edges of abuse and not the obvious stuff, the grey nuanced stuff. Really just having a good old ruminate while trying innovate some stuff. "
There are always going to be people who take pleasure in having power, however small, over others. Most Civil Servants are good people, but I have been reduced to tears in my job, and when I was a Customer Service Advisor for BT the leading cause of absence was for stress. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Am i in the Guardian Forums? Did It get renamed Fabulous Guardian?
I'm an out and out lefty. "
Most public sector folks are right?who would vote for the right who want to sack half the public workers? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I'm talking more about the power differential between professional and service user. Not staff to staff.
Okay, so I am in a profession where my particular expertise frequently present opportunities where if I were so inclined to take advantage of many of my customers lack of knowledge and need to place trust in me, I could abuse that and make significantly more money by basically lying and they would be none the wiser. Is that a valid example?
Everyone has made examples that are valid, my question was re power differentials in your life -- so yes.
Where my problem is originating though (why I was pondering thus) is when dealing with high volumes of distressed, vulnerable people when you can't necessarily make things better. "
I've been in that situation, I just did the best I could, the people around me saw I was genuinely doing so, that really helped. I put in 100% effort and got 100% back. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
" I can imagine!
I guess I'm picking around the edges of abuse and not the obvious stuff, the grey nuanced stuff. Really just having a good old ruminate while trying innovate some stuff.
There are always going to be people who take pleasure in having power, however small, over others. Most Civil Servants are good people, but I have been reduced to tears in my job, and when I was a Customer Service Advisor for BT the leading cause of absence was for stress."
Not fun.
My originating thoughts weren't from those abusing with intent or enjoyment of their power, but where you can't help but to due to constraints imposed external to you, and your complicity, in having to accept that. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Am i in the Guardian Forums? Did It get renamed Fabulous Guardian?
I'm an out and out lefty.
Most public sector folks are right?who would vote for the right who want to sack half the public workers?"
I'm not a public sector worker. |
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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
"Am i in the Guardian Forums? Did It get renamed Fabulous Guardian?
I'm an out and out lefty.
Most public sector folks are right?who would vote for the right who want to sack half the public workers?"
So do the left. People just don't like public sector. Because taxpayers pay our wages. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Am i in the Guardian Forums? Did It get renamed Fabulous Guardian?
I'm an out and out lefty.
Most public sector folks are right?who would vote for the right who want to sack half the public workers?
So do the left. People just don't like public sector. Because taxpayers pay our wages."
But public sector workers pay taxes too, so therefore contribute to their own wages. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
I'm talking more about the power differential between professional and service user. Not staff to staff.
Okay, so I am in a profession where my particular expertise frequently present opportunities where if I were so inclined to take advantage of many of my customers lack of knowledge and need to place trust in me, I could abuse that and make significantly more money by basically lying and they would be none the wiser. Is that a valid example?
Everyone has made examples that are valid, my question was re power differentials in your life -- so yes.
Where my problem is originating though (why I was pondering thus) is when dealing with high volumes of distressed, vulnerable people when you can't necessarily make things better.
I've been in that situation, I just did the best I could, the people around me saw I was genuinely doing so, that really helped. I put in 100% effort and got 100% back."
Yes. But we set a level where we work up to (your 100% may be different to someone else's) and I'm thinking around the edges of that in terms of wielding power by holding that line. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I'm talking more about the power differential between professional and service user. Not staff to staff.
Okay, so I am in a profession where my particular expertise frequently present opportunities where if I were so inclined to take advantage of many of my customers lack of knowledge and need to place trust in me, I could abuse that and make significantly more money by basically lying and they would be none the wiser. Is that a valid example?
Everyone has made examples that are valid, my question was re power differentials in your life -- so yes.
Where my problem is originating though (why I was pondering thus) is when dealing with high volumes of distressed, vulnerable people when you can't necessarily make things better. "
Oh hell... so is this saying that when you cannot make things better it is the case that the vulnerable are told something to assuage the problem with a falsehood for example in the hope that it will temporarily ease the burden on the power holding professional? |
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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
"Am i in the Guardian Forums? Did It get renamed Fabulous Guardian?
I'm an out and out lefty.
Most public sector folks are right?who would vote for the right who want to sack half the public workers?
So do the left. People just don't like public sector. Because taxpayers pay our wages.
But public sector workers pay taxes too, so therefore contribute to their own wages."
We try not to mention that. The Daily Mail gets a bit twitchy when they realise public sector workers get paid enough to pay taxes. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
I'm talking more about the power differential between professional and service user. Not staff to staff.
Okay, so I am in a profession where my particular expertise frequently present opportunities where if I were so inclined to take advantage of many of my customers lack of knowledge and need to place trust in me, I could abuse that and make significantly more money by basically lying and they would be none the wiser. Is that a valid example?
Everyone has made examples that are valid, my question was re power differentials in your life -- so yes.
Where my problem is originating though (why I was pondering thus) is when dealing with high volumes of distressed, vulnerable people when you can't necessarily make things better.
Oh hell... so is this saying that when you cannot make things better it is the case that the vulnerable are told something to assuage the problem with a falsehood for example in the hope that it will temporarily ease the burden on the power holding professional? "
Almost, not lying to someone though no, that would be abusive for sure. But exploring my issue that even saying truthfully we can't do say anymore today feels abusive, when you get to go home and situations aren't resolved. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Am i in the Guardian Forums? Did It get renamed Fabulous Guardian?
I'm an out and out lefty.
Most public sector folks are right?who would vote for the right who want to sack half the public workers?
So do the left. People just don't like public sector. Because taxpayers pay our wages.
But public sector workers pay taxes too, so therefore contribute to their own wages."
Right or left, if the country is doing ok(ie the business cycle is in the "up" phase) its hunky dory, nobody bothers sbout spending money like water.
When it turns down, and less is there to go around, the old grievances come up: taxes, immigration, gold plated pensions
The cycle goes on...relentlessly. Its calked history. |
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or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I'm talking more about the power differential between professional and service user. Not staff to staff.
Okay, so I am in a profession where my particular expertise frequently present opportunities where if I were so inclined to take advantage of many of my customers lack of knowledge and need to place trust in me, I could abuse that and make significantly more money by basically lying and they would be none the wiser. Is that a valid example?
Everyone has made examples that are valid, my question was re power differentials in your life -- so yes.
Where my problem is originating though (why I was pondering thus) is when dealing with high volumes of distressed, vulnerable people when you can't necessarily make things better.
Oh hell... so is this saying that when you cannot make things better it is the case that the vulnerable are told something to assuage the problem with a falsehood for example in the hope that it will temporarily ease the burden on the power holding professional? "
I would say you have got it in a nutshell |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I'm talking more about the power differential between professional and service user. Not staff to staff.
Okay, so I am in a profession where my particular expertise frequently present opportunities where if I were so inclined to take advantage of many of my customers lack of knowledge and need to place trust in me, I could abuse that and make significantly more money by basically lying and they would be none the wiser. Is that a valid example?
Everyone has made examples that are valid, my question was re power differentials in your life -- so yes.
Where my problem is originating though (why I was pondering thus) is when dealing with high volumes of distressed, vulnerable people when you can't necessarily make things better.
I've been in that situation, I just did the best I could, the people around me saw I was genuinely doing so, that really helped. I put in 100% effort and got 100% back.
Yes. But we set a level where we work up to (your 100% may be different to someone else's) and I'm thinking around the edges of that in terms of wielding power by holding that line. "
100% is 100% mate, no difference, howdo you measure it? you are given a target and you work to your fullest potential to achieve that. As a person you know if you've worked 100% as an observer you can see if someone is working at 100%.
Not telling people the truth, is not working with integrity, therefore not working with 100%. Many people see courage as running into a burning building and saving everybody, no matter what the risk is, that is however selfless commitment.
Courage is doing the right thing even when that feels wrong, for instance if somebody is not telling the truth about the situation, speak up and use courage to expose that person this will then help re-dress the power. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Am i in the Guardian Forums? Did It get renamed Fabulous Guardian?
I'm an out and out lefty.
Most public sector folks are right?who would vote for the right who want to sack half the public workers?
So do the left. People just don't like public sector. Because taxpayers pay our wages.
But public sector workers pay taxes too, so therefore contribute to their own wages.
Right or left, if the country is doing ok(ie the business cycle is in the "up" phase) its hunky dory, nobody bothers sbout spending money like water.
When it turns down, and less is there to go around, the old grievances come up: taxes, immigration, gold plated pensions
The cycle goes on...relentlessly. Its calked history."
That's a nice cop out. |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
I'm talking more about the power differential between professional and service user. Not staff to staff.
Okay, so I am in a profession where my particular expertise frequently present opportunities where if I were so inclined to take advantage of many of my customers lack of knowledge and need to place trust in me, I could abuse that and make significantly more money by basically lying and they would be none the wiser. Is that a valid example?
Everyone has made examples that are valid, my question was re power differentials in your life -- so yes.
Where my problem is originating though (why I was pondering thus) is when dealing with high volumes of distressed, vulnerable people when you can't necessarily make things better.
I've been in that situation, I just did the best I could, the people around me saw I was genuinely doing so, that really helped. I put in 100% effort and got 100% back.
Yes. But we set a level where we work up to (your 100% may be different to someone else's) and I'm thinking around the edges of that in terms of wielding power by holding that line.
100% is 100% mate, no difference, howdo you measure it? you are given a target and you work to your fullest potential to achieve that. As a person you know if you've worked 100% as an observer you can see if someone is working at 100%.
Not telling people the truth, is not working with integrity, therefore not working with 100%. Many people see courage as running into a burning building and saving everybody, no matter what the risk is, that is however selfless commitment.
Courage is doing the right thing even when that feels wrong, for instance if somebody is not telling the truth about the situation, speak up and use courage to expose that person this will then help re-dress the power."
You misunderstand my point. My 100% effort in terms of output can be different to yours.
And I've made no reference to saying I'm talking about someone lying about anything. I'm not talking about whistleblowing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Am i in the Guardian Forums? Did It get renamed Fabulous Guardian?
I'm an out and out lefty.
Most public sector folks are right?who would vote for the right who want to sack half the public workers?
So do the left. People just don't like public sector. Because taxpayers pay our wages.
But public sector workers pay taxes too, so therefore contribute to their own wages.
Right or left, if the country is doing ok(ie the business cycle is in the "up" phase) its hunky dory, nobody bothers sbout spending money like water.
When it turns down, and less is there to go around, the old grievances come up: taxes, immigration, gold plated pensions
The cycle goes on...relentlessly. Its calked history.
That's a nice cop out."
It might look so, but it is sad people stuck to ideologies and fighting the fight for those who want to wield power. We really cant do much to the trend of the cycle we are in, left of right. But politicians ha e to say they csn, since they meed to get elected.
At best the effects can be minimised not evaded. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I'm talking more about the power differential between professional and service user. Not staff to staff.
Okay, so I am in a profession where my particular expertise frequently present opportunities where if I were so inclined to take advantage of many of my customers lack of knowledge and need to place trust in me, I could abuse that and make significantly more money by basically lying and they would be none the wiser. Is that a valid example?
Everyone has made examples that are valid, my question was re power differentials in your life -- so yes.
Where my problem is originating though (why I was pondering thus) is when dealing with high volumes of distressed, vulnerable people when you can't necessarily make things better.
Oh hell... so is this saying that when you cannot make things better it is the case that the vulnerable are told something to assuage the problem with a falsehood for example in the hope that it will temporarily ease the burden on the power holding professional?
Almost, not lying to someone though no, that would be abusive for sure. But exploring my issue that even saying truthfully we can't do say anymore today feels abusive, when you get to go home and situations aren't resolved. "
That's called caring. You do your best but it can't always result in a win or resolution in your permitted time  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Am i in the Guardian Forums? Did It get renamed Fabulous Guardian?
I'm an out and out lefty.
Most public sector folks are right?who would vote for the right who want to sack half the public workers?
So do the left. People just don't like public sector. Because taxpayers pay our wages.
But public sector workers pay taxes too, so therefore contribute to their own wages.
Right or left, if the country is doing ok(ie the business cycle is in the "up" phase) its hunky dory, nobody bothers sbout spending money like water.
When it turns down, and less is there to go around, the old grievances come up: taxes, immigration, gold plated pensions
The cycle goes on...relentlessly. Its calked history.
That's a nice cop out.
It might look so, but it is sad people stuck to ideologies and fighting the fight for those who want to wield power. We really cant do much to the trend of the cycle we are in, left of right. But politicians ha e to say they csn, since they meed to get elected.
At best the effects can be minimised not evaded."
Not sure we are talking about the same things on the thread. But I do disagree with your view. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I'm talking more about the power differential between professional and service user. Not staff to staff.
Okay, so I am in a profession where my particular expertise frequently present opportunities where if I were so inclined to take advantage of many of my customers lack of knowledge and need to place trust in me, I could abuse that and make significantly more money by basically lying and they would be none the wiser. Is that a valid example?
Everyone has made examples that are valid, my question was re power differentials in your life -- so yes.
Where my problem is originating though (why I was pondering thus) is when dealing with high volumes of distressed, vulnerable people when you can't necessarily make things better.
I've been in that situation, I just did the best I could, the people around me saw I was genuinely doing so, that really helped. I put in 100% effort and got 100% back.
Yes. But we set a level where we work up to (your 100% may be different to someone else's) and I'm thinking around the edges of that in terms of wielding power by holding that line.
100% is 100% mate, no difference, howdo you measure it? you are given a target and you work to your fullest potential to achieve that. As a person you know if you've worked 100% as an observer you can see if someone is working at 100%.
Not telling people the truth, is not working with integrity, therefore not working with 100%. Many people see courage as running into a burning building and saving everybody, no matter what the risk is, that is however selfless commitment.
Courage is doing the right thing even when that feels wrong, for instance if somebody is not telling the truth about the situation, speak up and use courage to expose that person this will then help re-dress the power.
You misunderstand my point. My 100% effort in terms of output can be different to yours.
And I've made no reference to saying I'm talking about someone lying about anything. I'm not talking about whistleblowing. "
I probably have missed your point, I've had a few gins now. However your output might not be the same as mine, but your input can. For instance we both run a race, you win by a county mile but tried as hard as you could, I lost but also tried as hard as I could 100% effort.
I thought I'd seen you write somewhere about not being honest with people? sorry.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
I'm talking more about the power differential between professional and service user. Not staff to staff.
Okay, so I am in a profession where my particular expertise frequently present opportunities where if I were so inclined to take advantage of many of my customers lack of knowledge and need to place trust in me, I could abuse that and make significantly more money by basically lying and they would be none the wiser. Is that a valid example?
Everyone has made examples that are valid, my question was re power differentials in your life -- so yes.
Where my problem is originating though (why I was pondering thus) is when dealing with high volumes of distressed, vulnerable people when you can't necessarily make things better.
Oh hell... so is this saying that when you cannot make things better it is the case that the vulnerable are told something to assuage the problem with a falsehood for example in the hope that it will temporarily ease the burden on the power holding professional?
Almost, not lying to someone though no, that would be abusive for sure. But exploring my issue that even saying truthfully we can't do say anymore today feels abusive, when you get to go home and situations aren't resolved.
That's called caring. You do your best but it can't always result in a win or resolution in your permitted time "
Hugs x |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
I'm talking more about the power differential between professional and service user. Not staff to staff.
Okay, so I am in a profession where my particular expertise frequently present opportunities where if I were so inclined to take advantage of many of my customers lack of knowledge and need to place trust in me, I could abuse that and make significantly more money by basically lying and they would be none the wiser. Is that a valid example?
Everyone has made examples that are valid, my question was re power differentials in your life -- so yes.
Where my problem is originating though (why I was pondering thus) is when dealing with high volumes of distressed, vulnerable people when you can't necessarily make things better.
I've been in that situation, I just did the best I could, the people around me saw I was genuinely doing so, that really helped. I put in 100% effort and got 100% back.
Yes. But we set a level where we work up to (your 100% may be different to someone else's) and I'm thinking around the edges of that in terms of wielding power by holding that line.
100% is 100% mate, no difference, howdo you measure it? you are given a target and you work to your fullest potential to achieve that. As a person you know if you've worked 100% as an observer you can see if someone is working at 100%.
Not telling people the truth, is not working with integrity, therefore not working with 100%. Many people see courage as running into a burning building and saving everybody, no matter what the risk is, that is however selfless commitment.
Courage is doing the right thing even when that feels wrong, for instance if somebody is not telling the truth about the situation, speak up and use courage to expose that person this will then help re-dress the power.
You misunderstand my point. My 100% effort in terms of output can be different to yours.
And I've made no reference to saying I'm talking about someone lying about anything. I'm not talking about whistleblowing.
I probably have missed your point, I've had a few gins now. However your output might not be the same as mine, but your input can. For instance we both run a race, you win by a county mile but tried as hard as you could, I lost but also tried as hard as I could 100% effort.
I thought I'd seen you write somewhere about not being honest with people? sorry.
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
And I've made no reference to saying I'm talking about someone lying about anything. I'm not talking about whistleblowing. "
Surely whistle blowing comes into this in a big way....now I know you started this thread as a project for work
But a thread like this can become emotional for people who have been on the wrong end of this...which I have and seen good people get the sack for whistle blowing...which is what your op was about how to stop the abuse of power....sadly as said there is no answer to it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Am i in the Guardian Forums? Did It get renamed Fabulous Guardian?
I'm an out and out lefty.
Most public sector folks are right?who would vote for the right who want to sack half the public workers?
So do the left. People just don't like public sector. Because taxpayers pay our wages.
But public sector workers pay taxes too, so therefore contribute to their own wages.
Right or left, if the country is doing ok(ie the business cycle is in the "up" phase) its hunky dory, nobody bothers sbout spending money like water.
When it turns down, and less is there to go around, the old grievances come up: taxes, immigration, gold plated pensions
The cycle goes on...relentlessly. Its calked history.
That's a nice cop out.
It might look so, but it is sad people stuck to ideologies and fighting the fight for those who want to wield power. We really cant do much to the trend of the cycle we are in, left of right. But politicians ha e to say they csn, since they meed to get elected.
At best the effects can be minimised not evaded.
Not sure we are talking about the same things on the thread. But I do disagree with your view. "
No worries. Will leave this be. It wasnt meant to go on as much as it has. Hope you get back to your original topic. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
And I've made no reference to saying I'm talking about someone lying about anything. I'm not talking about whistleblowing.
Surely whistle blowing comes into this in a big way....now I know you started this thread as a project for work
But a thread like this can become emotional for people who have been on the wrong end of this...which I have and seen good people get the sack for whistle blowing...which is what your op was about how to stop the abuse of power....sadly as said there is no answer to it "
Thats why you have to use courage. To prevent it getting worse. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
And I've made no reference to saying I'm talking about someone lying about anything. I'm not talking about whistleblowing.
Surely whistle blowing comes into this in a big way....now I know you started this thread as a project for work
But a thread like this can become emotional for people who have been on the wrong end of this...which I have and seen good people get the sack for whistle blowing...which is what your op was about how to stop the abuse of power....sadly as said there is no answer to it "
You're taking a response I've made to someone else who thought I said I was talking about direct lies. G3orgie said about a lie, I refuted that and was explaining that to this poster, that my originating thoughts were around a different situation.
Please stop assuming I'm minimising your situation as someone who has experienced an abuse of power. I'm not.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
And I've made no reference to saying I'm talking about someone lying about anything. I'm not talking about whistleblowing.
Surely whistle blowing comes into this in a big way....now I know you started this thread as a project for work
But a thread like this can become emotional for people who have been on the wrong end of this...which I have and seen good people get the sack for whistle blowing...which is what your op was about how to stop the abuse of power....sadly as said there is no answer to it
Thats why you have to use courage. To prevent it getting worse."
I've seen 3 good bloody people who I told about wrong doings...take it higher only to get the sack and the repercussions of that put one of them in a mentle hospital...thankfully he has recovered and is now a great friend.
But I would not like anyone to go through that....yes they all had courage but they became the losers and guess what....the bad guy power holder came out unscathed. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So the original question was:
How do you effectively minimise the impact of power differentials in your life, when you're in the position of power? What about balancing alongside budget, time, regulations that aren't fit for purpose, or unboundaried others?
How do *you* ensure that *you* don't cause unintentional harm to others due to your actions when you're the one with a bit more power? In work or life?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So the original question was:
How do you effectively minimise the impact of power differentials in your life, when you're in the position of power? What about balancing alongside budget, time, regulations that aren't fit for purpose, or unboundaried others?
How do *you* ensure that *you* don't cause unintentional harm to others due to your actions when you're the one with a bit more power? In work or life?
I'm not a cunt. I don't take the piss. I take up the slack when I see people struggling. It's what I was born to do.
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Your threads give me a thinking headache.
I want sex.
I like how you've put that
Succinct, I think."
It's done my head in trying to work her new profile picture out |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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""The power differential is the inherently greater power and influence that helping professionals have as compared to the people they help. Understanding both the value and the many impacts of the power differential is the core of ethical awareness. People seeking help are in a position in which they must trust in the knowledge and guidance of their caregiver. This results in a greater-than-ordinary vulnerability. Consequently, people are unusually susceptible to harm and confusion through misuses (either under- or overuse) of power and influence."
How do you effectively minimise the impact of power differentials in your life, when you're in the position of power? What about balancing alongside budget, time, regulations that aren't fit for purpose, or unboundaried others?
"
Yes. Professional ethics are important. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I've been in both sides and I think that helps me keep a balance. It's not something I've ever really thought about though, I'm happy to be the service user and ask for help/seek guidance, but I'm also confident that as the helper/professional, I'd know what was over the line. My biggest issue is probably trying to help too much.
I think it's good to self-evaluate when you're in a position of power. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Every time we speak to another we exercise power. If we view speech as an action or intervention with intention then our action can effective, (well-intentioned, well-timed with a positive outcome), degenerate (well-intended but poorly timed with a negative outcome) or perverted ( negatively intended)
By analysing our actions in light of this can help.
As for power we can exercise different types of power - unilateral, diplomatic, logistical and transforming power.
Relying solely on the first three can lead to our actions at times being less effective (degenerate or perverted). However the use of transforming power, that seeks to correct our actions in collaboration with others, makes us vulnerable and open to change in the moment of action, as we seekincreasing effectiveness, timeliness and legitimacy in our actions
There's a lot more I could waffle on about but this amount of bollocks on a Sunday morning, will suffice for now |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Every time we speak to another we exercise power. If we view speech as an action or intervention with intention then our action can effective, (well-intentioned, well-timed with a positive outcome), degenerate (well-intended but poorly timed with a negative outcome) or perverted ( negatively intended)
By analysing our actions in light of this can help.
As for power we can exercise different types of power - unilateral, diplomatic, logistical and transforming power.
Relying solely on the first three can lead to our actions at times being less effective (degenerate or perverted). However the use of transforming power, that seeks to correct our actions in collaboration with others, makes us vulnerable and open to change in the moment of action, as we seekincreasing effectiveness, timeliness and legitimacy in our actions
There's a lot more I could waffle on about but this amount of bollocks on a Sunday morning, will suffice for now "
Very helpful. Thank you. You've put words to some elements that I needed to articulate. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I've been in both sides and I think that helps me keep a balance. It's not something I've ever really thought about though, I'm happy to be the service user and ask for help/seek guidance, but I'm also confident that as the helper/professional, I'd know what was over the line. My biggest issue is probably trying to help too much.
I think it's good to self-evaluate when you're in a position of power. "
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Your threads give me a thinking headache.
I want sex.
I like how you've put that
Succinct, I think.
It's done my head in trying to work her new profile picture out "
Left thigh to tum in profile. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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" I'm a supervisor. It has the word "super" in it. Do i use my super power for good....... nah."
Your contribution is much appreciated, Clem.
The word "trib" is in contribution. Now I'm enjoying a little fantasising. It doesn't include you. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If you truly lay yourself bare to ask for help is there any possible way you can control any potential imbalance? "
I need more context to understand your question, what do you mean? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you truly lay yourself bare to ask for help is there any possible way you can control any potential imbalance?
I need more context to understand your question, what do you mean? "
I was thinking along the lines of the following, although not exclusively: if you're seriously struggling but manage to get to the point where you're able to ask for help, would it be likely that you'd have enough resources to consider any imbalance?
Of course, I could have completely misunderstood the question. Apologies if that's the case. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If you truly lay yourself bare to ask for help is there any possible way you can control any potential imbalance?
I need more context to understand your question, what do you mean?
I was thinking along the lines of the following, although not exclusively: if you're seriously struggling but manage to get to the point where you're able to ask for help, would it be likely that you'd have enough resources to consider any imbalance?
Of course, I could have completely misunderstood the question. Apologies if that's the case. "
Aha, gotcha. The question is posed the other way around (thinking about the imbalance of power when you are the one in the greater power position so as not to impact the less powerful person, the seeker of help -- and how we, in the position of power, may still have unintended negative impact on the other simply because we have the power) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Your threads give me a thinking headache.
I want sex.
I like how you've put that
Succinct, I think.
It's done my head in trying to work her new profile picture out
Left thigh to tum in profile. "
Ahh gotcha |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you truly lay yourself bare to ask for help is there any possible way you can control any potential imbalance?
I need more context to understand your question, what do you mean?
I was thinking along the lines of the following, although not exclusively: if you're seriously struggling but manage to get to the point where you're able to ask for help, would it be likely that you'd have enough resources to consider any imbalance?
Of course, I could have completely misunderstood the question. Apologies if that's the case.
Aha, gotcha. The question is posed the other way around (thinking about the imbalance of power when you are the one in the greater power position so as not to impact the less powerful person, the seeker of help -- and how we, in the position of power, may still have unintended negative impact on the other simply because we have the power)"
Bugger. Sorry |
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