FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Knock one out.
Knock one out.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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This might get a bit rambly. so bear with me please 
So I was reading an article about people with "special needs" and how in fact they don't. Their basic needs are the same as everyone else's.
It then lead to me looking into screening of foetuses for certain conditions such as Downs Syndrome. I can't even begin to imagine what prospective parents go through and its probably a bit heavy to be debating the morals and implications of screening.
So what Id like to know is if you could screen something out of humanity what would it be?
Or would you screen nothing? Do you believe what will be will be?
This question is kinda open, it could be conditions, character traits, physical attributes. |
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In an ideal world there are all sorts of 'isms' I'd screen out - sexism, racism, ageism, fundamentalism and so on. And then you start thinking about all the cruel, sometimes agonising, life restricting/limiting conditions most people would never choose to have .... and then, as I was considering all of that, I just started to feel my thoughts were heading uncomfortably close to eugenics, and the inevitable Nazi connections ... so really, I've ended up on the fence here and I'm not sure  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I work with people with learning disabilities and I have met dozens of people with Down's syndrome. They are genuinely the most sweetest considerate people I've met. And there is lots of people born with this condition that live fully functional lives.
I've also watched a documentary about how people with downs may no longer exist in the future because of such screening. Some countries it almost is such as Norway.
I personally think it will be a damn shame. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Oh god, a bit close to home for me. I have 2 sons with genetic conditions so for me I'd say firstly epilepsy. It took my sons childhood away. Terrible condition x |
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By *eliWoman
over a year ago
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So the post is called Knock one out and you're talking about foetal screening for Downs's?
Erm, yeah. Apart from that, I wouldn't play God because it ends up being really complicated and difficult. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So the post is called Knock one out and you're talking about foetal screening for Downs's?
Erm, yeah. Apart from that, I wouldn't play God because it ends up being really complicated and difficult. "
Sort of agree but where would you draw the line on playing God, taking aspirin, artificial organs? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you could kill hitler at birth knowing the atrocitors he'll be responsible, would you?"
I watched a 'twilight zone' episode about that concept. Search it out. It's quite interesting. |
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By *eliWoman
over a year ago
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"So the post is called Knock one out and you're talking about foetal screening for Downs's?
Erm, yeah. Apart from that, I wouldn't play God because it ends up being really complicated and difficult.
Sort of agree but where would you draw the line on playing God, taking aspirin, artificial organs?"
I meant playing God (and subsequent difficulties) in reference to the screening out side of things. Medication and artificial organs are a bit of a tangent even for me! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This might get a bit rambly. so bear with me please
So I was reading an article about people with "special needs" and how in fact they don't. Their basic needs are the same as everyone else's.
It then lead to me looking into screening of foetuses for certain conditions such as Downs Syndrome. I can't even begin to imagine what prospective parents go through and its probably a bit heavy to be debating the morals and implications of screening.
So what Id like to know is if you could screen something out of humanity what would it be?
Or would you screen nothing? Do you believe what will be will be?
This question is kinda open, it could be conditions, character traits, physical attributes. "
What a lot of bullshit. My daughter has severe learning and physical difficulties, she DOES have special needs. She needs someone with her 24/7, requires constant supervision. Your post is very fucking offensive. Try engaging your brain before you post a thread. I know people with downs syndrome kids and you seem to be suggesting people like this are screened out of existence . How very thoughtless of you to make this thread. What an appalling thread. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This might get a bit rambly. so bear with me please
So I was reading an article about people with "special needs" and how in fact they don't. Their basic needs are the same as everyone else's.
It then lead to me looking into screening of foetuses for certain conditions such as Downs Syndrome. I can't even begin to imagine what prospective parents go through and its probably a bit heavy to be debating the morals and implications of screening.
So what Id like to know is if you could screen something out of humanity what would it be?
Or would you screen nothing? Do you believe what will be will be?
This question is kinda open, it could be conditions, character traits, physical attributes.
What a lot of bullshit. My daughter has severe learning and physical difficulties, she DOES have special needs. She needs someone with her 24/7, requires constant supervision. Your post is very fucking offensive. Try engaging your brain before you post a thread. I know people with downs syndrome kids and you seem to be suggesting people like this are screened out of existence . How very thoughtless of you to make this thread. What an appalling thread. "
I mentioned above. Canada already do this. Not just one individual chose to put that into action, The government did. Look it up.
Right or wrong, it's already happening. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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i wouldnt know where to start - just way too many things and i guess i am a bit of what will be will be as mostly there is sod all we can do about it and im quite matter of fact about that - personally i guess chrohns and colitis as my daughter suffers with this but again its not life threatening just a bugger when it rears its ugly head - and the other thing would be dementia type illnesses - this is where i work and is on the increase and its just too debilitating and hurts too many - but im sure same could be said for many things |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"This might get a bit rambly. so bear with me please
So I was reading an article about people with "special needs" and how in fact they don't. Their basic needs are the same as everyone else's.
It then lead to me looking into screening of foetuses for certain conditions such as Downs Syndrome. I can't even begin to imagine what prospective parents go through and its probably a bit heavy to be debating the morals and implications of screening.
So what Id like to know is if you could screen something out of humanity what would it be?
Or would you screen nothing? Do you believe what will be will be?
This question is kinda open, it could be conditions, character traits, physical attributes.
What a lot of bullshit. My daughter has severe learning and physical difficulties, she DOES have special needs. She needs someone with her 24/7, requires constant supervision. Your post is very fucking offensive. Try engaging your brain before you post a thread. I know people with downs syndrome kids and you seem to be suggesting people like this are screened out of existence . How very thoughtless of you to make this thread. What an appalling thread. "
I apologise if my point wasnt made clear. I was expressing the fact that everybody regardless of who they are have the same basic needs ie food shelter air. Therefore the term itself is offensive. Yes some people do require assistance to have those needs met but the actual need is the same as any other person.
I didn't in any way advocate the screening of any condition I only used Downs as an example as screening is already in place. It wasnt an attack. I stated in my post i wasnt looking to debate the morals of the issue.
I also left it open for interpretation. This is a forum. I was attempting to encourage conversation. |
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By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago
in the eye of the storm |
"This might get a bit rambly. so bear with me please
So I was reading an article about people with "special needs" and how in fact they don't. Their basic needs are the same as everyone else's.
It then lead to me looking into screening of foetuses for certain conditions such as Downs Syndrome. I can't even begin to imagine what prospective parents go through and its probably a bit heavy to be debating the morals and implications of screening.
So what Id like to know is if you could screen something out of humanity what would it be?
Or would you screen nothing? Do you believe what will be will be?
This question is kinda open, it could be conditions, character traits, physical attributes. "
Although I understand the screening mentality its not something I'm ethically confortable with as I see it as a slippery slope .which could lead to more problems than it solves if it becomes about designer humans . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This might get a bit rambly. so bear with me please
So I was reading an article about people with "special needs" and how in fact they don't. Their basic needs are the same as everyone else's.
It then lead to me looking into screening of foetuses for certain conditions such as Downs Syndrome. I can't even begin to imagine what prospective parents go through and its probably a bit heavy to be debating the morals and implications of screening.
So what Id like to know is if you could screen something out of humanity what would it be?
Or would you screen nothing? Do you believe what will be will be?
This question is kinda open, it could be conditions, character traits, physical attributes.
What a lot of bullshit. My daughter has severe learning and physical difficulties, she DOES have special needs. She needs someone with her 24/7, requires constant supervision. Your post is very fucking offensive. Try engaging your brain before you post a thread. I know people with downs syndrome kids and you seem to be suggesting people like this are screened out of existence . How very thoughtless of you to make this thread. What an appalling thread. "
I didn't take this as offensive and before you say I don't know what I'm talking about my sons both have special needs and my eldest requires 24 hr care. I think the question was is there anything you would get rid of not any mention that we should eradicate downs. Unfortunately we know that many scientists and doctors would like to do that. X |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This might get a bit rambly. so bear with me please
So I was reading an article about people with "special needs" and how in fact they don't. Their basic needs are the same as everyone else's.
It then lead to me looking into screening of foetuses for certain conditions such as Downs Syndrome. I can't even begin to imagine what prospective parents go through and its probably a bit heavy to be debating the morals and implications of screening.
So what Id like to know is if you could screen something out of humanity what would it be?
Or would you screen nothing? Do you believe what will be will be?
This question is kinda open, it could be conditions, character traits, physical attributes.
What a lot of bullshit. My daughter has severe learning and physical difficulties, she DOES have special needs. She needs someone with her 24/7, requires constant supervision. Your post is very fucking offensive. Try engaging your brain before you post a thread. I know people with downs syndrome kids and you seem to be suggesting people like this are screened out of existence . How very thoughtless of you to make this thread. What an appalling thread. "
I think you've made an assumption of the intent of the OP's post. Understandable given your personal sensitivity due to your experience. However, I could put it gently to you that by not questioning if that was her intent rather than assuming and immediately castigating and namecalling, it is yours that is actually the potentially abusive post.
Again, OP has seen your upset and clarified your assumption and interpretation was not her intent, and apologised for the hurt the miscommunication has caused.
Might you do the same? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It’s the circle of life we all born unique in different ways where they deal with it in their own unique ways. Well I was born with a disabilities but I turn out alright.   |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
So what Id like to know is if you could screen something out of humanity what would it be?
Or would you screen nothing? Do you believe what will be will be?
This question is kinda open, it could be conditions, character traits, physical attributes. "
Condition - dandruff and body odour
Character trait - being a cunt
Physical attributes - big penis's (levels the playing field lol)
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
So what Id like to know is if you could screen something out of humanity what would it be?
Or would you screen nothing? Do you believe what will be will be?
This question is kinda open, it could be conditions, character traits, physical attributes.
Condition - dandruff and body odour
Character trait - being a cunt
Physical attributes - big penis's (levels the playing field lol)
"
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We refused all screening for downs syndrome with my pregnancies, as I knew if the markers came back high I would not be willing to undergo more invasive tests, or subsequent terminations. So with that in mind I find myself very uncomfortable with screening out and eradicating any particular traits or conditions, though I am inclined to think that had we have had a pregnancy where there was irrefutable evidence that the child would have no meaningful life but a life of pain and suffering then there would only have been one option.
But back to the question; the only things I would choose to eradicate from this world are things that can't be done by birth control
Ginger |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
So what Id like to know is if you could screen something out of humanity what would it be?
Or would you screen nothing? Do you believe what will be will be?
This question is kinda open, it could be conditions, character traits, physical attributes.
"
I think it would be a better world if we could all be able to "step into another's experience of life", metamorphosise into each other for a taster session. Although it wouldn't eradicate constraints others face or privileges others had -- it would sure open up some more empathetic understanding, and help aid where communication fails to convey perspectives clearly as irrespective of words used our personal experiences or situations colour the meaning of words and how they are understood by another. How to implement the process or manage it, who knows -- it opens as many questions as it solves but, in one very practical implementation it would sure help clinical staff in assessing pain location/severity etc -- although what a job, to have to try on people's conditions daily!!
In regards to the query based more in a reality of what is scientifically achievable, I'd rather not play God. I don't have the brainpower to think through all the ethics and ramifications, and whilst I would always want to eradicate individual suffering, I also would be fearful of the eradication of diversity and where we stop and who decides, and all the eugenics atrocities that we've experienced thus far as humankind. I really don't know, nor feel qualified to answer. |
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By *oddyWoman
over a year ago
between havant and chichester |
I work with adults with severe learning disabilities none can speak or do anything for them selves but there faces light up when we come on shift and play the music they like |
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By *rowleyMan
over a year ago
Edinburgh |
I have a friend who's second child has down syndrome and he's written some fantastic pieces on a blog about when they found out and how his world view changed.
Knowing what kind of person he is and seeing the pictures of him and his daughter on Facebook, that kid is growing up in a warm and loving family with a kick-ass father.
As for what I'd screen out, I'm not to sure. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I wouldn't screen anything out because if you start going down that line where would it end, who would say what could or couldn't be done...?!
We mess enough with Mother Nature as it is, leave well alone ~ history repeating itself and all that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"At the end of the day moral boundaries are impossible to fully establish.
Train, fat man and 3 people on rails scenario etc.
What scenario is that?"
There is a fat man on a bridge above the rails.
There are 3 people tied to rails and can't move.
The train is coming. You can either push the fat man off the bridge to stop the train or let the 3 people die. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have two main problems with the idea of screening and ending certain conditions. As others have said it is a very slippery slope and who gets to decide which lives have value and which don't? The other thing is that a diagnosis is not a prognosis, being able to tell a child will have x or y doesn't necessarily tell you what they will be like and how they will be affected. We have first hand experience of genetic conditions and frankly the direction we're moving in horrifies me. |
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My interpretation of BunnyHops post was not to screen out 'special needs' by testing and termination, but to be able to have the ability to wave a magic wand as such so conditions like these and hereditary illnesses did not exist in the future, purely an innocent hypothetical question.
My initial response would have been to eliminate stupidity. But on further reading and thought i came to the conclusion thay some people may have misinterpreted the the question.
I too do not wish to cause any offence to anybody so please bear this in mind.
I imagine a very high percentage of parents of children with special needs have at some point asked themselves 'why my child? Why couldn't they have been normal?', but all of them love their special children just the way they are.
But what if it was possible for prospective parents to have the choice to remove certain genetic anomalies before conception?
In its basic form it is an ancient theory, the Greek philosopher Plato proposed a method of selecting people to breed with each other, similar to an early logarithm dating sites use to match couples.
This theory has been developed in the form of genetic modification in crops,vegetables and even animals to make them bigger, stronger, more colourful, tastier.
Also in the form of IVF treatment.
Imagine that you could go to a fertility clinic and select certain attributes your child would have, brown hair, blue eyes, right handed, tall, slim.
On the same checklist you could ensure your child would not have poor eyesight, heart conditions, asthma, depression, multiple sclerosis ect.
Naturally you would want the best for your child wouldn't you? You wouldn't see yourself as playing God would you because it's to have a perfectly healthy child and that's what every parent wants isn't it.
But ethically and practically is it the right thing to do? What implications would it have? whole generations of people who could in theory live to 150? Food shortages? Over population? Medicines and medical research being redundant? Over time it could have a dramatic impact on humanity, for better or worse?
The movie 'Gattaca' touches on this.
Science fiction or science fact?!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"At the end of the day moral boundaries are impossible to fully establish.
Train, fat man and 3 people on rails scenario etc.
What scenario is that?
There is a fat man on a bridge above the rails.
There are 3 people tied to rails and can't move.
The train is coming. You can either push the fat man off the bridge to stop the train or let the 3 people die."
Fucked either way if it's HST...... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"At the end of the day moral boundaries are impossible to fully establish.
Train, fat man and 3 people on rails scenario etc.
What scenario is that?
There is a fat man on a bridge above the rails.
There are 3 people tied to rails and can't move.
The train is coming. You can either push the fat man off the bridge to stop the train or let the 3 people die.
Fucked either way if it's HST......"
It's a hypothetical scenario |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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of any condition I just dont get the pursuit of perfection..
Yes,someone like Stephen Hawking is suffering motor neuron disease and I have a niece with cerebral palsy... I would hate to think if they were identified in the foetal stages that they would not be given the chance of life and the chance to impact on other peoples lives.
I'd rather they researched ways to manipulate the genes that cause any of these conditions......and that possibility might not be in the realms of science fiction within our lifetimes.
I'll just point out that the pursuit of perfection...or survival of the fittest..might just lead us down a road that lacks empathy to others in effect making us quite inhuman.Also where does it start or end who shall be effectively 'culled'
It is a persons choice to have a child..I would rather it would be about are they capable/ready/loving..than how smart will their child be and what they will look like.Granted nobody wants to see suffering or a very short life expectancy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A magic wand would have been nice to magic away my twin sister's cerebral palsy. No amount of screening would have identified it, as she was a normal baby until being starved of oxygen at birth.
After watching her not have any kind of life, I always said I wouldn't carry a baby that could be born severely disabled.
My sister died aged 35.
If we could have a magic wand to take away disabilities, I would use it. |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
i didn't take offence either, but know it's an emotive subject. as someone who has cared for people who want to be 'cured/normal' i know even sometimes people can't accept their disabilities themselves.
i'm all for genetic tampering. all it does is try to provide a healthy functioning body. |
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"A magic wand would have been nice to magic away my twin sister's cerebral palsy. No amount of screening would have identified it, as she was a normal baby until being starved of oxygen at birth.
After watching her not have any kind of life, I always said I wouldn't carry a baby that could be born severely disabled.
My sister died aged 35.
If we could have a magic wand to take away disabilities, I would use it. "
I understand your point of view, quality of life is important. |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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saying that i didn't have the screening tests when pregnant as i was never going to terminate a pregnancy. i was young and naive about disability then though and the amount of care someone might need and figured i could cope with anything. |
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