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London/Birmingham Riots

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By *lexa OP Woman over a year ago

southampton

I can't believe that this can happen in our country!! Bring back conscription !!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Not just London and Birmingham.

It's started in Manchester now, and several other city's.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

again as someone else said yesterday... what does that achieve? why dumped them on the army/navy and possibly endanger the lives of people who want to actually be there and be the best people they can be...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Not just London and Birmingham.

It's started in Manchester now, and several other city's. "
just shows that police tactics are so wrong

they cant protect a city

bet the Taliban are loving this

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I can't believe that this can happen in our country!! Bring back conscription !!"

No...bring back morals, bring back pride, bring back a sense of community and bring back kids being scared of the Police. Conscription is not the answer for very much the same reasons that Fabio gave. There are many possible answers to the problem!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

its all kicked off just up the road from me in west brom, i went to the bank earlier and the kids was just starting to gather, saw it on the news a few mins ago and its now a full blown riot on the high street, when i was coming home they was just walking round with bars and sticks smashing anything, if it wasnt so fooking pathetic it would be comical

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"its all kicked off just up the road from me in west brom, i went to the bank earlier and the kids was just starting to gather, saw it on the news a few mins ago and its now a full blown riot on the high street, when i was coming home they was just walking round with bars and sticks smashing anything, if it wasnt so fooking pathetic it would be comical

It was a bit like that in Coventry earlier, I just felt embarassed for them, it was almost like they were doing it half-hearted

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I can't believe that this can happen in our country!! Bring back conscription !!"

keep ur knickers on

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I can't believe that this can happen in our country!! Bring back conscription !!

bring back good parenting

im not the best mum in the world, theres no such thing, but i do my best, i have teenage kids but i know where they are, cause i made them stay in, some partents dont give a crap so long as they out their hair, its all over where i live, brimingham, west brom, wolves are all on my door step and all kicking off so i told my kids id rather them no go out, if i can do that why cant others?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yes i agree conscript them. They would become very useful as mine detectors

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By *lexa OP Woman over a year ago

southampton

The point of conscription is to encourage a sense of purpose and responsibility through a sense of doing good for the protection of others. These young people are currently lawless and without respect for anything/anyone. If they have to resort to gang warfare to have a sense of belonging, surely the armed forces could supply this but to a positive end! We are a world-leading country!! I'm shocked that our education/social system has failed us!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I can't believe that this can happen in our country!! Bring back conscription !!

bring back good parenting

Everyone is blaming the kids but the parents are to blame too! I have a teenage Daughter and there is no way she would be allowed out at that time of night anyway. I guess most of the parents in the most deprived area don't give a toss where their kids are as long as they are out of their hair!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I heard on the local radio that Scottish police forces were asked to send down any spare officers they had to help quell the riots, at last they seem to be taking it seriously enough.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

only in our country can teenagers wearing their £100 designer tracksuits & trainers communicate to others via £300 smart phones to organise riots because they are skint/bored and in 'poverty'

Its a joke! the youngsters should seriously be ashamed of themselves, they are achieving nothing. Yet after the insurance companies and government have paid out billions to repair the damages caused.. i bet they will still chuck money at the youths to keep them off the streets.

Thats it reward bad behaviour..

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"The point of conscription is to encourage a sense of purpose and responsibility through a sense of doing good for the protection of others. These young people are currently lawless and without respect for anything/anyone. If they have to resort to gang warfare to have a sense of belonging, surely the armed forces could supply this but to a positive end! We are a world-leading country!! I'm shocked that our education/social system has failed us!! "

but if people don't want to be there.... then they aren't going to be there in mind, body or spirit.... they then become a hinderance

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

all the roiters are scum of the lowest order,

time for the good people to take the streets back

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"only in our country can teenagers wearing their £100 designer tracksuits & trainers communicate to others via £300 smart phones to organise riots because they are skint/bored and in 'poverty'

Thats it reward bad behaviour..

Very well said.

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By *lexa OP Woman over a year ago

southampton

I agree. I know where my teenage daughter is too. If the parents can't control them what chance do the police have? Conscription is an education, an education encourages tolerance, tolerance encourages understanding, understanding encourages respect.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"only in our country can teenagers wearing their £100 designer tracksuits & trainers communicate to others via £300 smart phones to organise riots because they are skint/bored and in 'poverty'

Thats it reward bad behaviour..

I'm sick of hearing "we're so deprived" "the Police hate us" etc etc. No you're not deprived....there are jobs out there for peole who want to work and it's hardly surprising that the Police hate you....as will most of the general public now too! If they won't to see real deprivation I suggest they look at what is going on in Somalia at the moment!

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"only in our country can teenagers wearing their £100 designer tracksuits & trainers communicate to others via £300 smart phones to organise riots because they are skint/bored and in 'poverty'

Thats it reward bad behaviour..

Very well said."

true... the other side of the coin is also for the "good ones" you have taken away there Education Maintenance Allowance (EMA)... plus if they are smart, you have put up their costs of going to university from 3k to 9k per year.... and then any youth services they need... oh.. you have cut them by 3/4qrts...

not quite so simple now is it.....

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By *lexa OP Woman over a year ago

southampton

"only in our country can teenagers wearing their £100 designer tracksuits & trainers communicate to others via £300 smart phones to organise riots because they are skint/bored and in 'poverty'

Thats it reward bad behaviour..

Well said !!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't want to stir or anger anybody but had it been Northern Ireland a few years ago Water cannons would of been in place to disperse the riots and plastic bullets.

I think some of these thugs and that's all they are would run a mile if they encountered the above.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't want to stir or anger anybody but had it been Northern Ireland a few years ago Water cannons would of been in place to disperse the riots and plastic bullets.

I think some of these thugs and that's all they are would run a mile if they encountered the above."

totally agree with that.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"only in our country can teenagers wearing their £100 designer tracksuits & trainers communicate to others via £300 smart phones to organise riots because they are skint/bored and in 'poverty'

Thats it reward bad behaviour..

"
and they moan about tuition fees maybe they should stop buying expensive gear and save up

an were do they get the money in the 1st place

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The IPCC`s recent statement ain`t gona help the mood on the streets tonight...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't want to stir or anger anybody but had it been Northern Ireland a few years ago Water cannons would of been in place to disperse the riots and plastic bullets.

I think some of these thugs and that's all they are would run a mile if they encountered the above."

I've just read something on Facebook about the Police not being able to identify some of the culprits because of their faces being masked etc.....someone just sauid "shoot them in the legs, you will soon be able to identify them". Not i'm usually not one for violence....however....

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"The IPCC`s recent statement ain`t gona help the mood on the streets tonight..."

I have just been onto the phone to family and friends about that and they all said the same thing.... for as much as the truth has to come out... it should have waited till tomorrow morning

I do think some are going to use the innocent man killed by police arguement to justify what happens tonight....

and people are now going to compare that with de menzses where the police lied, and the tomlinson case, where police lied....

as I said to those people who cast aspertions about the guy before we know what we do now... the police get out there side, and unfortunately dead men can't talk!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"again as someone else said yesterday... what does that achieve? why dumped them on the army/navy and possibly endanger the lives of people who want to actually be there and be the best people they can be..."

Indeed! Who in their right mind would trust this bunch of mindless, lawless thugs to watch the backs of their loved ones...unless you equip them with Nordic skies and send them out looking for IEDs!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

innocent people _abio. hope you are joking

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By *oxy_minxWoman over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

"I don't want to stir or anger anybody but had it been Northern Ireland a few years ago Water cannons would of been in place to disperse the riots and plastic bullets.

I think some of these thugs and that's all they are would run a mile if they encountered the above."

I totally agree with you! I am sitting here watching the news and I will admit this situation is un f*cking believable, I would never have thought something like this would happen in this country, we definately need a much stronger force in order to deal with these thugs, and yes that is all they are!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I can't believe that this can happen in our country!! Bring back conscription !!

bring back good parenting

Agree! My kids are 19, 23 and 28. I know where they are. I was out having lunch with my youngest in Hays Galleria, London Bridge and my ex-husband and eldest kept phoning saying we shouldn't be out and about!

The WH Smiths at my local station had its windows broken. The shops on the high street had their shutters down at 1pm: so, so sad!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The IPCC`s recent statement ain`t gona help the mood on the streets tonight...

I have just been onto the phone to family and friends about that and they all said the same thing.... for as much as the truth has to come out... it should have waited till tomorrow morning

I do think some are going to use the innocent man killed by police arguement to justify what happens tonight....

and people are now going to compare that with de menzses where the police lied, and the tomlinson case, where police lied....

as I said to those people who cast aspertions about the guy before we know what we do now... the police get out there side, and unfortunately dead men can't talk!"

I agree Fabio, the timing couldn`t be worse....

We need to remember how this started..thats not to say there isn`t wholescale opportunism that hasn`t anything to do with those underlying issues and memories that are ticking over..

But I fear it adds fuel to the mindset of those caught up in the frenzy..

The truth is still unclear..smoke and mirrors..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Think tonight they going in mobhanded and using alot more force....re the coppers

bout bloody time

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I guess most of the parents in the most deprived area don't give a toss where their kids are as long as they are out of their hair!"

I disagree: parents probably out thieving with their kids.

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By *uckandbunnyCouple over a year ago

In your bed

This has nothing to do with 1 guy shot in London. Anyone who believes that is lying to themselves. Those people breaking into shops in Manchester and Liverpool and Birmingham and most of London could not give 2 cents who lived or died. If you stopped anyone to ask his name. I doubt they would know it.

In the end the people are running amok because the police can do nothing right. If they go in hard, they get slated for going in hard, if they go in soft then they get slated for going in soft. They are in a no win what ever they do so now we see lots of police dressed up for a riot but without the will to beat some people up.

In the end we can be as liberal as we like, but when faced with violence from a group or individual that does not care, violence in response is the only option left.

Where I am working alot of people are already saying shoot them, quite openly and with some meaning. It will only take the wrong person with a gun to get a vigilanti idea and some of these kids are going to end up dead.

A bit of biff from the police would knock this on the head, but they dare not use that as they will be judged to be oppressing (place whatever minority group you wish here).

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By *lexa OP Woman over a year ago

southampton

Did you see the footage of a young guy who was bleeding on the street. Some others came to help him but then robbing from his rucksack became their number one priority. It's just unbelievable what kind of people are out there!!

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

The worst I heard today, a gang broke into a woman's home and stole her baby.

They had the baby for an hour before she got the wee soul back.

The whole thing sickens me to the pit of my stomach.

stay safe all the police, fire crew, ambulance and other emergency crews... you have my complete respect.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago
Forum Mod

"The worst I heard today, a gang broke into a woman's home and stole her baby.

They had the baby for an hour before she got the wee soul back.

The whole thing sickens me to the pit of my stomach.

stay safe all the police, fire crew, ambulance and other emergency crews... you have my complete respect."

seriously? where was that? its disgusting

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The IPCC`s recent statement ain`t gona help the mood on the streets tonight...

I have just been onto the phone to family and friends about that and they all said the same thing.... for as much as the truth has to come out... it should have waited till tomorrow morning

I do think some are going to use the innocent man killed by police arguement to justify what happens tonight....

and people are now going to compare that with de menzses where the police lied, and the tomlinson case, where police lied....

as I said to those people who cast aspertions about the guy before we know what we do now... the police get out there side, and unfortunately dead men can't talk!"

It probably won't make a blind bit of difference, but I thought the timing of releasing that statement ill advised.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"The worst I heard today, a gang broke into a woman's home and stole her baby.

They had the baby for an hour before she got the wee soul back.

The whole thing sickens me to the pit of my stomach.

stay safe all the police, fire crew, ambulance and other emergency crews... you have my complete respect.

seriously? where was that? its disgusting

was on one of the news broadcasts earlier today xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Seeking an explanation fer the causes..

Outbreaks of civil unrest of this magnitude don`t happen in a vacuum...thats plain silly...

Quite obviously there are socio?economic factors involved...

Explore the socio?economic factors all yer like..left or right of centre...those _iews are expressed all thru all of these related threads...plainly..

I`m interested to explore the complex reasons..

Theres issues that are undoubtedly connected to Operation Trident..

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"Did you see the footage of a young guy who was bleeding on the street. Some others came to help him but then robbing from his rucksack became their number one priority. It's just unbelievable what kind of people are out there!!"

Please don't tell me this is all news to you?....you think this sort of thing just started happening over the last couple of days?

This is 2011 Britain.....I am shocked that you find it shocking to be honest....that's the trouble, vast sections of the population have ignored what has been going on around them for years, like 'lets pretend it's not happening and it might go away'

Well....it's not going to

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I just saw that and sad to say it didn't surprise me.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

Please don't tell me this is all news to you?....you think this sort of thing just started happening over the last couple of days?

Well....it's not going to"

totally agree with this.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"innocent people _abio. hope you are joking"

I said that some MAY use that arguement tonight..... after all.. he was in the back of a minicab, and the IPCC have said that there were only 2 shots fired.... the 1st went thru and got lodged in the policemans radio... the 2nd one killed him...

"someone" put it out there that there was a shootout.... the Met never denied it at any point, it was only put out there yesterday that the officers involved never said there was a shootout.... so where did all the miscommunication come from?

you CAN see where someone could make that arguement... not saying that I agree... but when the same miscommunication goes out about de menzses and tomlinson and no this... and we could mention other names over the years and the Met police..... is it such a hard "leap of faith" to make?

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"innocent people _abio. hope you are joking

won't know the detail Fabio till it completes, if ever.

he may have had a loaded gun tho... and if and I say if, he waved it and threatened to shoot.. the police only have a split second to decide to shoot.

I woud hate to be in the position to make that decision.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

and if I am honest... no one here knows what that would feel like. It is ok to sit at home behind a PC and type.

Faced with a split second decision that ultimately can result in a life being taken... either the other persons or yours is something I can not comprehend... and I suggest 99.9% can't either.

we can only speculate and that is a lot easier... especially on a playstation or gameboy.

No offence to anyone on here.

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By *ashful BazMan over a year ago

poole dorset

"This has nothing to do with 1 guy shot in London. Anyone who believes that is lying to themselves. Those people breaking into shops in Manchester and Liverpool and Birmingham and most of London could not give 2 cents who lived or died. If you stopped anyone to ask his name. I doubt they would know it.

In the end we can be as liberal as we like, but when faced with violence from a group or individual that does not care, violence in response is the only option left.

A bit of biff from the police would knock this on the head, but they dare not use that as they will be judged to be oppressing (place whatever minority group you wish here).

Good post, a bit of biff is what they need, but I cannot see it coming.

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By *he_original_poloWoman over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

In my book if you own and carry a gun in the street (or evenb taxi).... it's one of the few situations I feel it is fair for the police to assume intent.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"and if I am honest... no one here knows what that would feel like. It is ok to sit at home behind a PC and type.

Faced with a split second decision that ultimately can result in a life being taken... either the other persons or yours is something I can not comprehend... and I suggest 99.9% can't either.

we can only speculate and that is a lot easier... especially on a playstation or gameboy.

No offence to anyone on here."

no offence whatsoever.. and i agree with you for the most part....

the point I was more making was an arguement about misinformation.... it then wouldn't then lead unto futher speculation about the misinformation, so by the time we reach somewhere near the truth, the lie or lies look a lot worse than they are...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In my book if you own and carry a gun in the street (or evenb taxi).... it's one of the few situations I feel it is fair for the police to assume intent.

i agree xx

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By *lexa OP Woman over a year ago

southampton

Too many government cut backs too soon. A large percentage of funds have been removed from these socially deprived areas to keep the kids off the streets. If this is the case, this could only be the beginning unless a reform of funding is reinstated.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"and if I am honest... no one here knows what that would feel like. It is ok to sit at home behind a PC and type.

Faced with a split second decision that ultimately can result in a life being taken... either the other persons or yours is something I can not comprehend... and I suggest 99.9% can't either.

we can only speculate and that is a lot easier... especially on a playstation or gameboy.

No offence to anyone on here.

no offence whatsoever.. and i agree with you for the most part....

totally dude... as I live my life on here and outside... tell the fucking truth from the outset.... liars always get caught out

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"and if I am honest... no one here knows what that would feel like. It is ok to sit at home behind a PC and type.

Faced with a split second decision that ultimately can result in a life being taken... either the other persons or yours is something I can not comprehend... and I suggest 99.9% can't either.

we can only speculate and that is a lot easier... especially on a playstation or gameboy.

No offence to anyone on here."

Very true...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In my book if you own and carry a gun in the street (or evenb taxi).... it's one of the few situations I feel it is fair for the police to assume intent.

Couldn't agree more!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" A large percentage of funds have been removed from these socially deprived areas to keep the kids off the streets. "

Huge swathes of London never had these to start with sadly

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

Of course the loaded firearm could turn out to be like the famous machete that Winston Silcott was seen walking around Broadwater Farm Estate with on the night PC Keith Blakelock was murdered.

The same machete that turned up with Blakelocks blood on it, and various secret witnesses and Police Officer witnesses swore in court Silcott was wielding.....It found it's way into the waste shute at Silcotts block of flats, it was enough to convict him.

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By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

A lot has been said for and against conscription, with the main argument against being that they wouldnt be any good on the frontline.... simple answer, dont send them to the front line, send them elswhere to boost numbers i.e. the Falklands etc, and free up the decent troops for Afgan, Lybia and wherever. Six months of counting penguins would concentrate the minds.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"Of course the loaded firearm could turn out to be like the famous machete that Winston Silcott was seen walking around Broadwater Farm Estate with on the night PC Keith Blakelock was murdered.

To be fair.. your point is right Jane, they did wrong.

so do the public:

The policewoman shot dead in Bradford on Friday was killed on her daughter's fourth birthday.

Sharon Beshenivsky, 38, a mother of three children and two stepchildren, had been a serving constable for only nine months.'

sadly on both sides x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Hopefully any foreign nationals found rioting will get deported.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"Hopefully any foreign nationals found rioting will get deported."

Are there official reports that foreign nationals have been involved?

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By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

"The worst I heard today, a gang broke into a woman's home and stole her baby.

They had the baby for an hour before she got the wee soul back.

The whole thing sickens me to the pit of my stomach.

stay safe all the police, fire crew, ambulance and other emergency crews... you have my complete respect."

Well said dude.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Someyoungsters appear to have a deep seated anger and total mistrust towards the police, and by extension authority..

Why is that ?

We didn`t like them, but respected them..whats happened ?..

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By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

"innocent people _abio. hope you are joking

won't know the detail Fabio till it completes, if ever.

he may have had a loaded gun tho... and if and I say if, he waved it and threatened to shoot.. the police only have a split second to decide to shoot.

I woud hate to be in the position to make that decision.

I was on a course once with a guy who was in the firearms unit of the south Wales police, and we had an interesting discussion about their training, and how they make the decisions to carry, load, point and shoot a weapon, and just how much pressure they are under to get it right.

He also pointed out that it is easy to get it right in hindsight, but when you are faced with someone who, as far as you can tell, has a REAL gun which may be loaded, you dont have a great deal of time to make a decision, its him or you.... and its "better to be judged by twelve, than carried by six".

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By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

"and if I am honest... no one here knows what that would feel like. It is ok to sit at home behind a PC and type.

Faced with a split second decision that ultimately can result in a life being taken... either the other persons or yours is something I can not comprehend... and I suggest 99.9% can't either.

we can only speculate and that is a lot easier... especially on a playstation or gameboy.

No offence to anyone on here."

Actually, I do know what its like, but luckily for me things didnt go shit-shaped. If I had pulled the trigger, I would have killed an innocent man, but it was a close call, he will never know just how lucky he was. (Bosnia 2002)

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"and if I am honest... no one here knows what that would feel like. It is ok to sit at home behind a PC and type.

Faced with a split second decision that ultimately can result in a life being taken... either the other persons or yours is something I can not comprehend... and I suggest 99.9% can't either.

we can only speculate and that is a lot easier... especially on a playstation or gameboy.

No offence to anyone on here.

I shouldnt have said no one.. I meant the large majority, didnt think it thro with serving/ex servicemen/women.

apologies x

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By *rumalexMan over a year ago

Birmingham

"Someyoungsters appear to have a deep seated anger and total mistrust towards the police, and by extension authority..

Why is that ?

We didn`t like them, but respected them..whats happened ?.."

i have to admit as an angry young man whose contact with the local police weren't pleasant ones, i grew up with a deep hatred and mistrust of them i never feared or respected them, and i think that is whats happening today, i've mellowed with age and its sad to see whats happening around the country at the moment

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

Lets remember before we get carried away here....there has at this moment in time been no suggestion from either the Police, or the IPCC, that the Police Officer was threatened with a gun anyway.

So maybe, just maybe, he never had to make a 'Do or Die' decision anyway?

Could be prudent to wait until the IPCC report back in full later this month maybe?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"innocent people _abio. hope you are joking

won't know the detail Fabio till it completes, if ever.

he may have had a loaded gun tho... and if and I say if, he waved it and threatened to shoot.. the police only have a split second to decide to shoot.

I woud hate to be in the position to make that decision.

My Brother is a chief inspector and is licensed to give a 'shoot' order..He hopes he never has to do it because he's not 100% sure about it.and he's brutally aware of what a split second delay could cost

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Hopefully any foreign nationals found rioting will get deported."

ha ha, no chance the human rights brigade wouldnt allow that

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"Lets remember before we get carried away here....there has at this moment in time been no suggestion from either the Police, or the IPCC, that the Police Officer was threatened with a gun anyway.

So maybe, just maybe, he never had to make a 'Do or Die' decision anyway?

Could be prudent to wait until the IPCC report back in full later this month maybe?"

I am not carried away, I said above we don't know.. i said' if he waved'.. we need to wait till conclusion of any investigation

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple over a year ago

Bolton

Idiotic yobs with nothing better to do than wreck their own communities, bring back public floggings, but I'm afraid that much of the problems now are down to non existant parenting by people who shouldn't be allowed to have children in the first place. We have virtually eradicated natural selection, down ward spiral and it's got rock all to do with cuts etc - these are youngsters who haven't lost jobs, pensions etc - excuses will abound. Z

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Someyoungsters appear to have a deep seated anger and total mistrust towards the police, and by extension authority..

Why is that ?

We didn`t like them, but respected them..whats happened ?..

Listening to some of the youngsters they def feel the same antipathy...no escaping that..

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"Hopefully any foreign nationals found rioting will get deported.

ha ha, no chance the human rights brigade wouldnt allow that"

So I'll ask again.....have there been any official reports that foreign nationals have been arrested as rioters?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Seeking explanations doesn`t make one an apologist or give excuses...those involved are responsible fer their behaviour...full stop.

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By *oxy_minxWoman over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

Ok, neck on the line here for me, but do you honestly think, and yes 'think' these thugs believe for one second they are rioting in protest about the shooting that happened?

Don't be so f*cking stupid, they are rioting because they are thugs with no morals and out 'for a bit of fun' to the detriment of others wellbeing and livlihood, how many people have been firebombed with no insurance (for starters!!)

The list just goes on....

This country has just got soft and need to toughen up, do you think this would have happened in say Russia or Germany??? Hmmmm

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By *he_original_poloWoman over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"Of course the loaded firearm could turn out to be like the famous machete that Winston Silcott was seen walking around Broadwater Farm Estate with on the night PC Keith Blakelock was murdered.

Which is partly why I kept my comment as a generalised statement.... however, I haven't heard one person, including Mark's wife/partner/widow make any firm claim that he wasn't carrying a gun. Her only comment on the matter was she didn't know he had one and was surprised to hear he did. She was more adament to make clear he was more the type of person to run than to stop and shoot at people.... then one wonders why he had a gun (if indeed he did).

Both he and any of the wankers out on the street tonight or the last few nights have NO legal reason whatsoever to own and carry a gun.

The police sadly will make bad judgement calls from time to time, some a lot worse than others.... because they are human. They do need to handle the times when they do fuck up better than they did this time... even if the fuck up is an alledged fuck up.

Even so, I can't help thinking.... you don't see the same reaction of looting and criminal behaviour when one of these dickwits shoots another dickwit or stabs to death another dickwit..... and they have shot a fucking damn lot more than the police have.

Yeah, I know two wrongs don't make it alright 'brov'..... but it does highlight that besides the initial peaceful protest.... trying to link what's happening tonight and what has happened over previous nights to some sort of stand making.... is fucking bollox!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Listen.......

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By *rumalexMan over a year ago

Birmingham

"Ok, neck on the line here for me, but do you honestly think, and yes 'think' these thugs believe for one second they are rioting in protest about the shooting that happened?

The list just goes on....

This country has just got soft and need to toughen up, do you think this would have happened in say Russia or Germany??? Hmmmm"

didnt they have riots in russia not so long ago?

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"Too many government cut backs too soon. A large percentage of funds have been removed from these socially deprived areas to keep the kids off the streets. If this is the case, this could only be the beginning unless a reform of funding is reinstated. "

Is this the same socially deprived area where they are arranging which shops to loot on their blackberries

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"Ok, neck on the line here for me, but do you honestly think, and yes 'think' these thugs believe for one second they are rioting in protest about the shooting that happened?

The list just goes on....

This country has just got soft and need to toughen up, do you think this would have happened in say Russia or Germany??? Hmmmm

didnt they have riots in russia not so long ago?"

And massive riots in Rostock in Germany a couple of years back...

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By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

"and if I am honest... no one here knows what that would feel like. It is ok to sit at home behind a PC and type.

Faced with a split second decision that ultimately can result in a life being taken... either the other persons or yours is something I can not comprehend... and I suggest 99.9% can't either.

we can only speculate and that is a lot easier... especially on a playstation or gameboy.

No offence to anyone on here.

I shouldnt have said no one.. I meant the large majority, didnt think it thro with serving/ex servicemen/women.

apologies x"

No worries dude, I guess as a society we are lucky that very few have ever had to do the unthinkable.

In an utopian world there would be peace and harmony, but mankind just loves a good tear-up.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Ok, neck on the line here for me, but do you honestly think, and yes 'think' these thugs believe for one second they are rioting in protest about the shooting that happened?

The list just goes on....

This country has just got soft and need to toughen up, do you think this would have happened in say Russia or Germany??? Hmmmm"

They would have been shot on sight in the usa

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

"innocent people _abio. hope you are joking

He was packing a loaded gun ,for me thats enough to dispatch him to wherever he has gone ,at least he cant now use it .

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By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

"Lets remember before we get carried away here....there has at this moment in time been no suggestion from either the Police, or the IPCC, that the Police Officer was threatened with a gun anyway.

So maybe, just maybe, he never had to make a 'Do or Die' decision anyway?

Could be prudent to wait until the IPCC report back in full later this month maybe?"

I'm sorry, but Police dont shoot people for the fun of it, and if he (the Police marksman) fired twice then he was confronted with a (what he thought) was a life-threatening situation.

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By *oxy_minxWoman over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

"Ok, neck on the line here for me, but do you honestly think, and yes 'think' these thugs believe for one second they are rioting in protest about the shooting that happened?

The list just goes on....

This country has just got soft and need to toughen up, do you think this would have happened in say Russia or Germany??? Hmmmm

They would have been shot on sight in the usa

Thank you peaches!!! That was my point

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

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By *he_original_poloWoman over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

Age range of looters..... 12-45.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Lets remember before we get carried away here....there has at this moment in time been no suggestion from either the Police, or the IPCC, that the Police Officer was threatened with a gun anyway.

So maybe, just maybe, he never had to make a 'Do or Die' decision anyway?

Could be prudent to wait until the IPCC report back in full later this month maybe?

I'm sorry, but Police dont shoot people for the fun of it, and if he (the Police marksman) fired twice then he was confronted with a (what he thought) was a life-threatening situation."

Tell that to the bloke on the tube at Stockwell

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I actually feel for the copper involved, it must be awful knowing what you are about to do and then deal with it all after.

If a yob uses a gun and shoots someone, they have no concience so it doesnt bother them.

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By *oxy_minxWoman over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

Ummm NO!!!

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"Hopefully any foreign nationals found rioting will get deported.

ha ha, no chance the human rights brigade wouldnt allow that

So I'll ask again.....have there been any official reports that foreign nationals have been arrested as rioters?"

The man didn't say there was

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

apparently it's started in Stockport and Oldham now.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

"
what is the white unemployment rate in Battersea?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

Ummm NO!!!"

And a big no from me too. this yob culture dont need a bloody excuse.

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By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

"Even so, I can't help thinking.... you don't see the same reaction of looting and criminal behaviour when one of these dickwits shoots another dickwit or stabs to death another dickwit..... and they have shot a fucking damn lot more than the police have. " (Quote)

Absolutely spot on, sums it up perfectly, kudos.

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By *ushroom7Man over a year ago

Bradford

Maybe we should call in the Syrian Army?

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"Hopefully any foreign nationals found rioting will get deported.

ha ha, no chance the human rights brigade wouldnt allow that

So I'll ask again.....have there been any official reports that foreign nationals have been arrested as rioters?

The man didn't say there was"

The message was clear to me....

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By *b430Man over a year ago

Tayside

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

Nope!

I'm amazed that there are people on here defending the rioters and what they are doing.

There is no legal excuse or reason for what is happening just now, if there was we could all just go out this weekend and do a wee bit of looting to get our weekly shopping in!

The people doing it are criminals nothing else.

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By *rumalexMan over a year ago

Birmingham

"Ok, neck on the line here for me, but do you honestly think, and yes 'think' these thugs believe for one second they are rioting in protest about the shooting that happened?

The list just goes on....

This country has just got soft and need to toughen up, do you think this would have happened in say Russia or Germany??? Hmmmm

They would have been shot on sight in the usa

Thank you peaches!!! That was my point

dont mean to be on a downer but when they rioted in the usa after the rodney king beating, there weren't much shooting of rioters by the police then either

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

what is the white unemployment rate in Battersea?"

34% according to the Sky report this evening for 18-25 year olds in Battersea...

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

I think it does, however justifies nothing.

what are the stats on attendance of black kids at school, expulsions, qualifications achieved...

that may show, they had the chance and chose not to educate

that may have an impact on suitability for roles..

and add some cntext to the higher figures.

Jane....what do you think the parents/grandparents of these people will say....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well our lovely (ahem) prime minister has said...if you can do the crime , you will do the time regardless of age...this looting and stuff apparantly carries a 5 - 10 yr stretch.

Now i wanna see the courts actually doing it. and no..i dont care if said looter is 10..11..12 etc. put the assholes away

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By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

"Lets remember before we get carried away here....there has at this moment in time been no suggestion from either the Police, or the IPCC, that the Police Officer was threatened with a gun anyway.

So maybe, just maybe, he never had to make a 'Do or Die' decision anyway?

Could be prudent to wait until the IPCC report back in full later this month maybe?

I'm sorry, but Police dont shoot people for the fun of it, and if he (the Police marksman) fired twice then he was confronted with a (what he thought) was a life-threatening situation.

Tell that to the bloke on the tube at Stockwell"

They yelled stop, he didnt, they thought he was a terrorist with a bomb.... so, lets play devils advocate shall we, as a copper with a gun, would you have pulled the trigger? I think I would have, but you enver know until you are in that situation, and, unlike most on here I suspect, I HAVE been in that situation, or something similar. (Read up).... bottom line, its easy to judge from the safety of your armchair after you know all the facts, but in the heat of the moment, with possibly dozens of lives at stake... well, makes you think, doesnt it?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well our lovely (ahem) prime minister has said...if you can do the crime , you will do the time regardless of age...this looting and stuff apparantly carries a 5 - 10 yr stretch.

Now i wanna see the courts actually doing it. and no..i dont care if said looter is 10..11..12 etc. put the assholes away

Where will they keep them all?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Ok, neck on the line here for me, but do you honestly think, and yes 'think' these thugs believe for one second they are rioting in protest about the shooting that happened?

The list just goes on....

This country has just got soft and need to toughen up, do you think this would have happened in say Russia or Germany??? Hmmmm

They would have been shot on sight in the usa

Thank you peaches!!! That was my point

dont mean to be on a downer but when they rioted in the usa after the rodney king beating, there weren't much shooting of rioters by the police then either "

in the case of rodney king, the police were wrong bigtime. massively

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

I will ask again like I did on the other thread. Don't turn the thread into a race issue as it is all colours and creeds doing the looting

If it turns into a race thread it will have to be shut and won't be able to be started again

Thanks.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well our lovely (ahem) prime minister has said...if you can do the crime , you will do the time regardless of age...this looting and stuff apparantly carries a 5 - 10 yr stretch.

Now i wanna see the courts actually doing it. and no..i dont care if said looter is 10..11..12 etc. put the assholes away

We have plenty on uninhabited islands....

Where will they keep them all?

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By *ushroom7Man over a year ago

Bradford

"Hopefully any foreign nationals found rioting will get deported.

ha ha, no chance the human rights brigade wouldnt allow that

So I'll ask again.....have there been any official reports that foreign nationals have been arrested as rioters?

The man didn't say there was

The message was clear to me...."

Were you suggesting the unemployed, and those mostly unemployed had more time on their hands to go looting? That's how it reads to me.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

Nope!

I'm amazed that there are people on here defending the rioters and what they are doing.

There is no legal excuse or reason for what is happening just now, if there was we could all just go out this weekend and do a wee bit of looting to get our weekly shopping in!

The people doing it are criminals nothing else. "

Who said it was an excuse for the rioting?

I asked what plenty of others are asking on the TV this evening, should we pretend that these factors are not part of the problem?

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By *umourCouple over a year ago

Rushden

"Lets remember before we get carried away here....there has at this moment in time been no suggestion from either the Police, or the IPCC, that the Police Officer was threatened with a gun anyway.

So maybe, just maybe, he never had to make a 'Do or Die' decision anyway?

Could be prudent to wait until the IPCC report back in full later this month maybe?"

Maybe he was drawing the gun or perhaps even brandished it at the police and that is why he was shot! Perhaps it would be good for everyone to wait for the full IPCC report and not just those who think he was guilty!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The worst thing we can now do is to start making excuses for their behaviour.

There simply is NO excuse for whats happened and is still happening.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

Nope!

I'm amazed that there are people on here defending the rioters and what they are doing.

There is no legal excuse or reason for what is happening just now, if there was we could all just go out this weekend and do a wee bit of looting to get our weekly shopping in!

The people doing it are criminals nothing else. "

I haven`t seen anyone defending the yobs...seeking a cause mabye...

Its the other side of just shooting them..and washing it all under the carpet...

Some might say..its trying to take responsibility fer our society...voting fer policies that try and ensure it doesn`t happen again, and getting involved in our comunities..

These kids are just that, kids....this society raised them...

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"Hopefully any foreign nationals found rioting will get deported.

ha ha, no chance the human rights brigade wouldnt allow that

So I'll ask again.....have there been any official reports that foreign nationals have been arrested as rioters?

The man didn't say there was

The message was clear to me...."

And you highlighting it again and again just highlights it more.

Let the mods do their job and deal with it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If the excuse for this rioting is this man shot by the police, it is still an excuse and only an excuse, not a reason.

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By *b430Man over a year ago

Tayside

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

Nope!

I'm amazed that there are people on here defending the rioters and what they are doing.

There is no legal excuse or reason for what is happening just now, if there was we could all just go out this weekend and do a wee bit of looting to get our weekly shopping in!

The people doing it are criminals nothing else.

Who said it was an excuse for the rioting?

I asked what plenty of others are asking on the TV this evening, should we pretend that these factors are not part of the problem?"

You have been using it as an excuse for them to riot by putting up the figures of the unemployed in the areas concerned. It seems, to me anyway, that you see that being unemployed gives you a reason to riot and loot!

Again, that's the way your posts seem to me.

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By *oxy_minxWoman over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

Nope!

I'm amazed that there are people on here defending the rioters and what they are doing.

There is no legal excuse or reason for what is happening just now, if there was we could all just go out this weekend and do a wee bit of looting to get our weekly shopping in!

The people doing it are criminals nothing else.

Who said it was an excuse for the rioting?

I asked what plenty of others are asking on the TV this evening, should we pretend that these factors are not part of the problem?"

I'm sorry Jane but no I do not believe these are factors of the problems for the rioting happening just now, without being to blunt I don't believe people have the intelligence to bring these factors into it!

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

Unemployment the year I left school was huge, I didn't rob tellies or set light to buildings.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

Nope!

I'm amazed that there are people on here defending the rioters and what they are doing.

There is no legal excuse or reason for what is happening just now, if there was we could all just go out this weekend and do a wee bit of looting to get our weekly shopping in!

The people doing it are criminals nothing else.

Who said it was an excuse for the rioting?

I asked what plenty of others are asking on the TV this evening, should we pretend that these factors are not part of the problem?"

Jane

over the last 2 nights you have spoken and spoken well for the looters, I don't see the same empathy/sympathy for the innocents now made homeless, with little or no possessions, they may not have insurance... and are devastated...

do you feel anything for them... the business people like yourself whose life dreams have gone up in smoke.... the fear mothers had jumping from windows as the mobs giggled and said' lets go get some watches'....

I actually agree the lack of hope... but balance and some kindness shown to the victims... and I say victims as you may feel the looters are a victim of a generation of lack of hope..... but balance to the other victims would be nice.

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By *rumalexMan over a year ago

Birmingham

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

Nope!

I'm amazed that there are people on here defending the rioters and what they are doing.

There is no legal excuse or reason for what is happening just now, if there was we could all just go out this weekend and do a wee bit of looting to get our weekly shopping in!

The people doing it are criminals nothing else.

Who said it was an excuse for the rioting?

I asked what plenty of others are asking on the TV this evening, should we pretend that these factors are not part of the problem?"

seriously in my probably wrong opinion i think its a few things going back years from stopping corporal punishment to parents getting visits from social workers for discipling their children, courts letting children divorce their parents, weak sentencing from judges , and no one telling youngsters when they're doing wrong, its led some to get braver leading to the mess we have on the streets today, be honest what kind of sentences are you expecting those that are caught to actually get?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

Unemployment the year I left school was huge, I didn't rob tellies or set light to buildings."

As it was the year I left school..In Brixton. I stll managed to keep my hands to myself during the 81 riots

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

He was packing a loaded gun ,for me thats enough to dispatch him to wherever he has gone ,at least he cant now use it ."

thats fine PD... the point I would make is at this point in the investigation de menzses was "running away from the police" and then they "challenged him" he resisted...

was that enough information for them to kill him as well??? after all he was thought to be carrying a suicide bomb?

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

vigilante groups operating in enfield ...hmmm i dont know how i feel about that,on the one hand i am for it on the other ,it doesnt sit right,its certainly an escalation.

i am just not sure if its positive or a negative.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Street cred is more important to the assholes you see running the streets, its cool to carry weapons, its cool to go beat someone up or worse, its cool to f and blind at the coppers and hang around the streets striking fear into the law abiding citizen..its cool to do drugs and drink and its cool not to give a fuck.........

#and they dont......simples.

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By *he_original_poloWoman over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

Jane, you have pointed out to a few other posters on various threads (on this subject) about needing to be in touch with the real world and what is actually going on out there. So for one minute, hand on heart.... how many of that 76% do you think would take a job which was in line with their level of qualification if it was offered to them? How many would stop talking 'like I iz de bad man brov nuff said innit' and go and work stacking shelves at the supermarket they have just looted?

Hand on heart Jane? Would they?

I do get your point. I do appreciate there are social problems that need addressing.

BUT... what's going on out there is not a direct result of unemployment.... whether you are black, white or green. It's not all young people, it's not all black and asian people, it's not a protest and it's not even people being angry.

They are fucking standing around chatting and having a laugh making shopping lists whilst waiting for enough people to turn up to go looting for the sheer hell of it.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

He was packing a loaded gun ,for me thats enough to dispatch him to wherever he has gone ,at least he cant now use it .

thats fine PD... the point I would make is at this point in the investigation de menzses was "running away from the police" and then they "challenged him" he resisted...

was that enough information for them to kill him as well??? after all he was thought to be carrying a suicide bomb?"

The difference being, this man had a gun?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

Nope!

I'm amazed that there are people on here defending the rioters and what they are doing.

There is no legal excuse or reason for what is happening just now, if there was we could all just go out this weekend and do a wee bit of looting to get our weekly shopping in!

The people doing it are criminals nothing else.

Who said it was an excuse for the rioting?

I asked what plenty of others are asking on the TV this evening, should we pretend that these factors are not part of the problem?

Agreed...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

Hand on heart Jane? Would they?

I do get your point. I do appreciate there are social problems that need addressing.

They are fucking standing around chatting and having a laugh making shopping lists whilst waiting for enough people to turn up to go looting for the sheer hell of it."

perfectly put

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By *eddonistikMan over a year ago

Manchester

Carry a gun illegally, then accept that you may well be shot.

Conscripts make worse soldiers than volunteers, if anything they are a danger to their fellow soldiers as they definitly don't want to be there. The idea of using them to walk in front of normal troops as IED detectors has legs, (which is more than they would probably have after a month or so).

As for dealing with the shitheads on the ground now, what's wrong with using water cannon, rubber bullets, batons and tazers on them? They're just scum who no one will miss.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"UK Youth unemployment (18-25) 19.4%...April 2011.

UK Black Youth unemployment (18-25) 48%...April 2011

Black Youth (18-25) unemployment in Battersea, London 76%...April 2011

Doesn't anyone really believe this may just have a bearing on what's going on?

Nope!

I'm amazed that there are people on here defending the rioters and what they are doing.

There is no legal excuse or reason for what is happening just now, if there was we could all just go out this weekend and do a wee bit of looting to get our weekly shopping in!

The people doing it are criminals nothing else.

Who said it was an excuse for the rioting?

I asked what plenty of others are asking on the TV this evening, should we pretend that these factors are not part of the problem?

Jane

well said that man

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

Millionaire David Cameron flies back on his own flight from a £6000-a-week holiday home . . . . to stamp on yobs who resent being told to live on £6000 a year.

Cameron's big society is all about people helping themselves and others to share the common wealth aint it?

They've seen politicians robbing.

They've seen bankers thieving.

They've seen cops on the take from bent journalists.

Now they're helping themselves, too.

Pretty amateurish and yobbish, true.

But no less or more criminal than of the other scum caught with their fingers in the till lately.

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By *ushroom7Man over a year ago

Bradford

Let's just suppose the police could use rubber or real bullets, how many of the looters would still gather and take the risk? Somewhat fewer i would imagine.

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

He was packing a loaded gun ,for me thats enough to dispatch him to wherever he has gone ,at least he cant now use it .

thats fine PD... the point I would make is at this point in the investigation de menzses was "running away from the police" and then they "challenged him" he resisted...

was that enough information for them to kill him as well??? after all he was thought to be carrying a suicide bomb?"

i think de menzies was killed by accident due to the location where he lived his resemblance to a known terrorist,the hightened level of threat ,and some incompetence ,the shot him in the herad and chest thinking he was about to detonate a bomb .

This guy allegedly had a loaded gun illegally ,to me that is justification to shoot him dead if he runs when challenged.,

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As it stands now its in major cities etc but whose to say that the local yobs where WE all live wont join the bandwagon..?

Never say never

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

I think some of the youngsters that were inter_iewed today showed that they have no respect for anyone or anything.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"Millionaire David Cameron flies back on his own flight from a £6000-a-week holiday home . . . . to stamp on yobs who resent being told to live on £6000 a year.

Cameron's big society is all about people helping themselves and others to share the common wealth aint it?

They've seen politicians robbing.

They've seen bankers thieving.

They've seen cops on the take from bent journalists.

Now they're helping themselves, too.

Pretty amateurish and yobbish, true.

But no less or more criminal than of the other scum caught with their fingers in the till lately.

what has millionaire got to do with it apart from jealousy..

MP's have been jailed... not enuf granted.

What banker thieved?

The rogue police will be prosecuted

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By *ushroom7Man over a year ago

Bradford

"I think some of the youngsters that were inter_iewed today showed that they have no respect for anyone or anything."

Wasn't "respect" a major plank of a recent Governments policy?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The pictures of the wee boy dazed on the ground with his mouth bleeding, helped to his feet by the mob only to get mugged was particularly hard to watch

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By *ushroom7Man over a year ago

Bradford

The rogue police will be prosecuted

Maybe. I'll believe it when we see it.

I'm not holding my breath.

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By *he_original_poloWoman over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"Millionaire David Cameron flies back on his own flight from a £6000-a-week holiday home . . . . to stamp on yobs who resent being told to live on £6000 a year.

Cameron's big society is all about people helping themselves and others to share the common wealth aint it?

They've seen politicians robbing.

They've seen bankers thieving.

They've seen cops on the take from bent journalists.

Now they're helping themselves, too.

Pretty amateurish and yobbish, true.

But no less or more criminal than of the other scum caught with their fingers in the till lately.

Did they see politicians, bankers and cops set fire to peoples homes and businesses after being light fingered or did they learn that one all by themselves?

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

The rogue police will be prosecuted

Maybe. I'll believe it when we see it.

I'm not holding my breath. "

well there will be a twitter and facebook campaign all the way thro it ... so we will know

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By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

"Millionaire David Cameron flies back on his own flight from a £6000-a-week holiday home . . . . to stamp on yobs who resent being told to live on £6000 a year.

Cameron's big society is all about people helping themselves and others to share the common wealth aint it?

They've seen politicians robbing.

They've seen bankers thieving.

They've seen cops on the take from bent journalists.

Now they're helping themselves, too.

Pretty amateurish and yobbish, true.

But no less or more criminal than of the other scum caught with their fingers in the till lately.

Really?

"But no less or more criminal than of the other scum caught with their fingers in the till lately."

I'm struggling here not to write what I really think about this comment, suffice to say if you cant see the difference then..... well, I'll leave it, sometimes you just have to walk away ffs!

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

He was packing a loaded gun ,for me thats enough to dispatch him to wherever he has gone ,at least he cant now use it .

thats fine PD... the point I would make is at this point in the investigation de menzses was "running away from the police" and then they "challenged him" he resisted...

was that enough information for them to kill him as well??? after all he was thought to be carrying a suicide bomb?

This guy allegedly had a loaded gun illegally ,to me that is justification to shoot him dead if he runs when challenged., "

the reason I put "running away from the police" and "Challenged him" in those quotes was because those never happened!

and thats why I have been talking about misinformation all the way thru the thread.....

in the IPCC report they say he never ran...other people and CCTV confirmed that

in the report they said he was never challeged... the 8 closest passengers said that before they were all told to get off the train....

and yet the police gave a different story at the time... and stuck to there story come hell or high water....

so if i have said that a man was calmly walking along, and sat down like any other passenger... because he was any other passenger.... then the shooting then becomes a lot more sinister, and the police lose a lot more support than before "their" version of what happened....

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"The pictures of the wee boy dazed on the ground with his mouth bleeding, helped to his feet by the mob only to get mugged was particularly hard to watch"

Now that one was another that made me cry, scum.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Millionaire David Cameron flies back on his own flight from a £6000-a-week holiday home . . . . to stamp on yobs who resent being told to live on £6000 a year.

Cameron's big society is all about people helping themselves and others to share the common wealth aint it?

They've seen politicians robbing.

They've seen bankers thieving.

They've seen cops on the take from bent journalists.

Now they're helping themselves, too.

Pretty amateurish and yobbish, true.

But no less or more criminal than of the other scum caught with their fingers in the till lately.

what has millionaire got to do with it apart from jealousy..

MP's have been jailed... not enuf granted.

What banker thieved?

The rogue police will be prosecuted

Thats rational View...I kinda agree..

But those things lead to a perception..