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Tottenham Riots

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

What a bunch of fucking ass clowns!

You have a gun, maybe the police will be interesting in talking to you. Incredible I know! People taking your gun is totally uncool!

Lrn2civilisedsociety ffs!

You take your ticket, you takes your chances. That is all.

And burning a bus, well that is just going too far!

I mean, I'm Irish, but I think burning red double decker london buses touches a raw nerve in the brit collective psyche!

Insert your thoughts below

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am watching it too its unreal.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sad

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I am watching it too its unreal."

Irony of course being that they might very well wind up killing other people tonight, a dozen people have reportedly been beaten up (twitter, faster updates), on behalf of their so-called outrage at this gang member getting shot.

I'm deeply suspicious that these are examples of superchavs who'd like any excuse for a riot.

Also! A double decker! Brunt! :O

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Sad

Where are you located? Not near Tottenham hopefully!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sadly the lies following the Menedez shooting in Stockwell, people are naturally suspicious of the police in cases like this.

However, there's no justification for the scenes that unfolded yesterday. I'll also wager the majority of rioters are from outside the area and don't really give a toss about the dead man.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

its times like these that we need a real life superhero

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"its times like these that we need a real life superhero

Do not fear Citizen...Super Snoggy is on his way...Up Up and Yes Mum will collect your prescription on the wayyyyy....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think it needs to be said like it is, this is more about looting and lawlessness than a protest over a man who fired at police officers who returned fire and killed him.

Let's face it, it doesn't take much to set off a mob who hate anything to do with authority anyway.

Send in the water cannons and put them down is what I'd order if I was in charge of the Met.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Give them iPhones and a choice of Trainers because all they lack is a bit of love...Bless...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Give them iPhones and a choice of Trainers because all they lack is a bit of love...Bless...

Fook that. Give them ten years in pokey and a daily helping of gruel before breaking rocks for 15 hours. Assholes.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Give them iPhones and a choice of Trainers because all they lack is a bit of love...Bless...

Fook that. Give them ten years in pokey and a daily helping of gruel before breaking rocks for 15 hours. Assholes."

Ah but to forgive is to give the gift of love and that is all these young people wish for...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Give them iPhones and a choice of Trainers because all they lack is a bit of love...Bless...

Fook that. Give them ten years in pokey and a daily helping of gruel before breaking rocks for 15 hours. Assholes.

Ah but to forgive is to give the gift of love and that is all these young people wish for...

While they're robbing ya back pocket and laughing at your generosity. These riots are just an excuse to go nick a new TV from some poor hapless shopkeeper. I wonder how many of those people use those same shops every day, yet felt nothing about breaking in and stealing everything that wasn't nailed down.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"Sadly the lies following the Menedez shooting in Stockwell, people are naturally suspicious of the police in cases like this.

However, there's no justification for the scenes that unfolded yesterday. I'll also wager the majority of rioters are from outside the area and don't really give a toss about the dead man."

Have to agree with you there.... They do it just for notourity (wrong spelling). Growing up in Brixton shooting was a daily occurance we will never stop the shooting but we need to educate the younger generation.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

God I thought they had actually sold Modric to Chelsea !!!!!!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Give them iPhones and a choice of Trainers because all they lack is a bit of love...Bless...

Fook that. Give them ten years in pokey and a daily helping of gruel before breaking rocks for 15 hours. Assholes.

Ah but to forgive is to give the gift of love and that is all these young people wish for...

But surely society has let these young people down at one point so society should make amends and give them what they want to heal their wounds and help them find themselves...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Give them iPhones and a choice of Trainers because all they lack is a bit of love...Bless...

Fook that. Give them ten years in pokey and a daily helping of gruel before breaking rocks for 15 hours. Assholes.

Ah but to forgive is to give the gift of love and that is all these young people wish for...

But surely society has let these young people down at one point so society should make amends and give them what they want to heal their wounds and help them find themselves...

"
im sorry but are you being sarcastic

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Give them iPhones and a choice of Trainers because all they lack is a bit of love...Bless...

Fook that. Give them ten years in pokey and a daily helping of gruel before breaking rocks for 15 hours. Assholes.

Ah but to forgive is to give the gift of love and that is all these young people wish for...

But surely society has let these young people down at one point so society should make amends and give them what they want to heal their wounds and help them find themselves...

im sorry but are you being sarcastic

Sorry if I sound sarcastic but I feel we should reach out and touch the hurt these young Men and Women are feeling just my opinion and sorry if I have offended you...Peace and Love...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I know its not the right way to act but a lot of it comes out of years of frustration and poverty. For years now the government corrupt does not listen police have no back bone and so much is covered up now (conspiracy theory) I know put its about time people stood up for what they believe in. Like I say not sure if this is the right way but its made people stand up and pay attention.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

I really felt their pain when I saw them smashing the shop windows and running along the road with the trolleys laden with goodies......

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I really felt their pain when I saw them smashing the shop windows and running along the road with the trolleys laden with goodies......"

You too?!! I thought I was the only one tearing up at the pain they'd feel after their mummies spanked them before frog marching them down to the cop shop!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm just astonished at the looting.It just defeats any purpose and overshadows any kind of investigation

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By *heekychezzaWoman over a year ago

warrington

You too?!! I thought I was the only one tearing up at the pain they'd feel after their mummies spanked them before frog marching them down to the cop shop!"

coo sassy....think you're in a timewarp ....that sort of parental behaviour is from times gone by and is now virtually obsolete.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

most of them need shooting. feral fcukers

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

wow.... i go to sleep and this happens overnight....

funny enough being an arsenal fan and being a kid who use to go to tottenham ritzy on a saturday night, i know the area very very welll

I had heard about the alledged shooting incident on thursday and i had heard about the peaceful demonstration to the police station yesterday afternoon... so you have to seperate those two from what happened last night.....

so just spoken to some old friends.. and they said this had been coming for a while, the community dont trust the police at all and it would only take one incident to get all of the kids off the big estates in the area down together...

I am just surprised that it reached basically from seven sisters right the way down to wood green...... that is a huge area.....

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By *ornyHorwichCpl aka HHCCouple over a year ago

horwich

If your're going to play with guns then you have to expect the consequences.

The police allegedly shot him because he shot first. So the lad died, did he really expect to be told to put his gun down and get a cuddle. We're sorry but we have to stop pussyfooting around criminals.

As for the rioters, they are just as bad. Whilst some people may be outraged by the fact the police shot someone, the looting was just an excuse for anarchy.

All those shops and businesses that are damaged have now had their livlihoods damaged by some mimdless yobs. Some may never open again.

They certainly didn't think of the people living in the flats above. That could have somebodies granny that had to flee.

As for the poverty and boredom of the youth that's a crock oh shit. We know plenty of people who have nothing but are still decent citizens. People who live in gang run areas that aren't involved in crime.

It makes me mad.

Takes a deep breathe and gets off our soapbox

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By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

"Give them iPhones and a choice of Trainers because all they lack is a bit of love...Bless...

Fook that. Give them ten years in pokey and a daily helping of gruel before breaking rocks for 15 hours. Assholes.

Ah but to forgive is to give the gift of love and that is all these young people wish for...

But surely society has let these young people down at one point so society should make amends and give them what they want to heal their wounds and help them find themselves...

im sorry but are you being sarcastic

And todays winner of the "No shit Sherlock" award goes to.....!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It was reported by the BBC that these morons were communicating by so called social networking sites to commit very anti-social acts of violence.

Surely if this is the case theu should be a shut down of twitter facebook et al to prevent this if its shown to be aiding a riot. Of course some would twitter thats against their rights if theyre doing nothing wrong but if the whole idea of these sites is to be sociable then its ok to put up with a little inconvenience if it helps alleviate a dire situation on our streets.

Yes its new technology and we have to move with the times, but I think its causing a lot of harm. Didn't the July London bombers use social networking sites to communicate and plot as well?

I was glad to see a guy in court after spamming on facebook a precedent needs to be set. Its time these sites were monitored more closely if they are going to be abused by those bent on anti-social behaviour.

Disclaimer: This is the opinion of the poster is in no way meant to offend anyone with a differing opinion.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"But surely society has let these young people down at one point so society should make amends and give them what they want to heal their wounds and help them find themselves...

So how is it that some kids grow well adjusted and do well in life? They all have the same opportunity to knuckle down at school and get decent grades to get a decent job, but it seems some kids prefer to identify with gang culture and think it's cool to carry a gun - and it's just a short step away from actually using it and then you've crossed a line that you can never step back over.

The scumbag that died fired first (his bullet was found embedded in the radio of the policeman he fired at, which is why we're not mourning a dead copper today). He used his mobile to contact his g/f to say the 'feds were after him'. Feds? wtf is that all about then! We don't have Feds over here, that's an American euphemism and indicative of this perp's mindset (another americanism there).

He got what was coming to him and I have no sympathy for the twat whatsoever.

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By *ornyHorwichCpl aka HHCCouple over a year ago

horwich

"It was reported by the BBC that these morons were communicating by so called social networking sites to commit very anti-social acts of violence.

Yes its new technology and we have to move with the times, but I think its causing a lot of harm. Didn't the July London bombers use social networking sites to communicate and plot as well?

Disclaimer: This is the opinion of the poster is in no way meant to offend anyone with a differing opinion."

The police could trace the IP addresses of those posting and arrest them for conspiring to incite a riot. There are times when human rights have a place but criminal activity should override that. How far they would get with prosecution is another thing. If they stupidly blatantly post themselves with a shopping trolley full of swag then they give the police the evidence they need

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By *waymanMan over a year ago

newcastle

"I really felt their pain when I saw them smashing the shop windows and running along the road with the trolleys laden with goodies......"

I know, it's a bugger when you get the trolley with the wonky wheel - how uncool is that?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well said Wishy.

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By *waymanMan over a year ago

newcastle

"It was reported by the BBC that these morons were communicating by so called social networking sites to commit very anti-social acts of violence.

Yes its new technology and we have to move with the times, but I think its causing a lot of harm. Didn't the July London bombers use social networking sites to communicate and plot as well?

Disclaimer: This is the opinion of the poster is in no way meant to offend anyone with a differing opinion."

In what way are social networking sites 'so called'? It's what they are. Or are you blaming the medium for the message?

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By *rumalexMan over a year ago

Birmingham

"It was reported by the BBC that these morons were communicating by so called social networking sites to commit very anti-social acts of violence.

Yes its new technology and we have to move with the times, but I think its causing a lot of harm. Didn't the July London bombers use social networking sites to communicate and plot as well?

Disclaimer: This is the opinion of the poster is in no way meant to offend anyone with a differing opinion."

I don't think that would make much diffrence we've had massive riots before facebook, twitter and the net was common, people just wanted to attack the police to show that they run the area, unfortunatly when you get riots the looters will always come out, its a shame though when they had the riots here in birmingham it took the area over 15 years to recover, hopefully there won't be any more trouble tonight and if there is, the police just have to take control and hit them hard

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"It was reported by the BBC that these morons were communicating by so called social networking sites to commit very anti-social acts of violence.

Yes its new technology and we have to move with the times, but I think its causing a lot of harm. Didn't the July London bombers use social networking sites to communicate and plot as well?

Disclaimer: This is the opinion of the poster is in no way meant to offend anyone with a differing opinion."

its a difficult one re: social networking.... if the govt was to try and shut down twitter/facebook at times like that... it would then make them no better then for example...

Iran that did that to crush rebillion

Tunisa and Egypt which tried to do that to stop the uprisings....

Syria which is doing that right now....

if the police want to use twitter and facebook in evidence against the rioters I have absolutely no problem with that at all...... but the prospect of them considering closing it down would have been a step too far.....

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By *waymanMan over a year ago

newcastle

[Removed by poster at 07/08/11 11:09:49]

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

[Removed by poster at 07/08/11 11:14:28]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

they are a bunch oif selfish cunts

like we need the bill for the clean up in our current climate, or any time for that matter

the culprit should be made to pay for it and do it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It was reported by the BBC that these morons were communicating by so called social networking sites to commit very anti-social acts of violence.

Yes its new technology and we have to move with the times, but I think its causing a lot of harm. Didn't the July London bombers use social networking sites to communicate and plot as well?

Disclaimer: This is the opinion of the poster is in no way meant to offend anyone with a differing opinion."

The Arab Spring revolutions were fueled by social network sites...the incumbent regimes worked rather hard at shutting down the sites..Vodaphone in particular capitulated immediattely..

Google and China ?

In a free country we have to have a freedom to express ourselves methinks...albeit at the risk of agent provocatuers drumming up anarchy...a price worth paying!..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You too?!! I thought I was the only one tearing up at the pain they'd feel after their mummies spanked them before frog marching them down to the cop shop!

coo sassy....think you're in a timewarp ....that sort of parental behaviour is from times gone by and is now virtually obsolete....."

I know, their mummies will probably spank them for nicking a 42" Panasonic when they wanted a 50" Sony...alas.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It was reported by the BBC that these morons were communicating by so called social networking sites to commit very anti-social acts of violence.

Yes its new technology and we have to move with the times, but I think its causing a lot of harm. Didn't the July London bombers use social networking sites to communicate and plot as well?

Disclaimer: This is the opinion of the poster is in no way meant to offend anyone with a differing opinion.

In what way are social networking sites 'so called'? It's what they are. Or are you blaming the medium for the message?"

To call something social when it is cited by the police and reported by the BBC as aiding an abetting an anti social situation then the name seems rather ironic to me and I expressed it as such in my description for to put over a point that it is ironic they are called that. I was not disputing the fact of the generic term.

Having seen reports that social networking sites bring children to suicide, cause riots, incite bullying, groom children and aid in committing fraud, then I personally see nothing sociable.

As I said its personal opinion and expressed irony, not denial of the fact which you quite rightly point out.

Disclaimer: This is the opinion of the poster is in no way meant to offend anyone with a differing opinion.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Having worked around this area of london this violence doesn't surprise me and all it needs is a little spark to set it off.

There is poverty but there is also massive gang issues and there is the have and have not.

Just watch a massive police reaction to keepand maintain public order. I have heard that there were shots fired at police that isn't being reported by the news yet.

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By *waymanMan over a year ago

newcastle

"It was reported by the BBC that these morons were communicating by so called social networking sites to commit very anti-social acts of violence.

Yes its new technology and we have to move with the times, but I think its causing a lot of harm. Didn't the July London bombers use social networking sites to communicate and plot as well?

Disclaimer: This is the opinion of the poster is in no way meant to offend anyone with a differing opinion.

In what way are social networking sites 'so called'? It's what they are. Or are you blaming the medium for the message?

Having seen reports that social networking sites bring children to suicide, cause riots, incite bullying, groom children and aid in committing fraud, then I personally see nothing sociable.

As I said its personal opinion and expressed irony, not denial of the fact which you quite rightly point out.

Disclaimer: This is the opinion of the poster is in no way meant to offend anyone with a differing opinion."

OK.

Talking to people can lead to suicide. Shall we ban it?

As for your point about fraud, let's ban pens.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"I know its not the right way to act but a lot of it comes out of years of frustration and poverty. For years now the government corrupt does not listen police have no back bone and so much is covered up now (conspiracy theory) I know put its about time people stood up for what they believe in. Like I say not sure if this is the right way but its made people stand up and pay attention."

Have to disagree..

we had zilch in our neighbourhood as kids and yes people probably did get 'frustrated'..poor lambs

we still never kicked off and torched 'our area' or put people in hospital.

During the small riots in Brixton in the 90's there was opportunist wholesale theft and plain anarchy, this was from scum of several ethnic backgrounds.

One particular incident at a car 'hifi' shop was clearly organised and controlled by a couple of people.

On the cover up i would probably agree that deaths in Police custody have for years not been addressed sufficiently, but i believe that this is starting to change and people are more accountable.

However i will say i have the utmost respect and admiration for the vast majority of our Police who do a difficult job very well.

This guy was not in Police custody and was 'carrying' and prepared to use it, the fact that he was allowed to open fire and hit a copper needs looking at also as he could have killed said copper. Soon as he raised it he should have been shot.

As for about time people 'stood up for what they believe in' ffs are you seriously saying that the response from the scumbags last night is acceptable or that they are right to have done so 'cos their life is not what they might want it to be?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Social netowrking sites have enjoyed unrestricted access to whoever wants to use them but when there comes a time that they are used to organise co-ordinated campaigns of UNsocial behaviour then the questions arises about policing facebook/twitter et al.

Police forces across the country have accounts on socnets and they use them to get messages out to a mass audience quickly, but they use them within the realms of the law. Anarchists use socnets to campaign against the law and that's where I believe socnets *must* be policed. If they don't police themselves then they shouldn't be at all surprised to find their websites policed externally - and probably a darn sight more draconian than if they did it internally.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It was reported by the BBC that these morons were communicating by so called social networking sites to commit very anti-social acts of violence.

Yes its new technology and we have to move with the times, but I think its causing a lot of harm. Didn't the July London bombers use social networking sites to communicate and plot as well?

Disclaimer: This is the opinion of the poster is in no way meant to offend anyone with a differing opinion.

In what way are social networking sites 'so called'? It's what they are. Or are you blaming the medium for the message?

Having seen reports that social networking sites bring children to suicide, cause riots, incite bullying, groom children and aid in committing fraud, then I personally see nothing sociable.

As I said its personal opinion and expressed irony, not denial of the fact which you quite rightly point out.

Disclaimer: This is the opinion of the poster is in no way meant to offend anyone with a differing opinion."

I kinda glossed over yer point re: irony Jech..guess you have a point, but the thing that jumped out at me was yer remark regarding shutting down the sites if they were found to be aiding and abetting a riot....thats dangerous territory....

We`ve always had riots...some more understandable than others...Bristol 1831...Toxteth 1981...a couple that reflect those areas problems..discrimination economically,politically, democratically with endemic poor housing and health issues etc...not fergetting the overt racism and oppression...remember the sus laws ?

Anyways...I ain`t defending the meatheads who shoot and oppress the innocent ...but defend the right to express yerself in any medium thats available...remembering that freedom always comes with responsibility...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Social netowrking sites have enjoyed unrestricted access to whoever wants to use them but when there comes a time that they are used to organise co-ordinated campaigns of UNsocial behaviour then the questions arises about policing facebook/twitter et al.

A fully fledged police state....you`d prolly be happier in Syria or Iran Wishy ...

Anarchy isn`t always a negative thang ....jeeez!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sounds like a few of the Daily Mail brigade want Big Brother.

Presumably all mobile telephone networks will be closed and the media wont be allowed to report what happens.

You'll say it's in the name of democracy presumably.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sounds like a few of the Daily Mail brigade want Big Brother.

Presumably all mobile telephone networks will be closed and the media wont be allowed to report what happens.

You'll say it's in the name of democracy presumably.

Keyboard warriors...like the human rights activists in China...censor Google ?

A state organised cyber attack on Google, to identify human right activists!

Theres some deep irony present...those that use Google so blithely to inform and educate and appear erudite, seem to espouse the censorship of those fighting fer the same liberty..

Words fail me ...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/08/11 12:54:25]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Please read my post again. After writing about what I heard being reported I wrote 'surely if this was the case they (the police) should shut down twitter and facebook' if they truly believe it was escalating the riot.

I never called for this to happen as its against my beliefs on freedom of speech. I just brought it into the debate and also brought in others rights too and a 'what if' scenario. I was providing another angle from BBC reporting and police beliefs for debate and I did not say I was calling for this to happen, at any point. It has indeed raised some excellent points about how that couldn't work so has expanded the debate with very good examples, as I knew it would.

I pointed out that certain aspects of these social network sites cause harm in society because of their influence and importance in everyones lives now, and gave examples of those being harmed in another post to you, which those in power seem powerless to stop. I stand by those thoughts as its a fact some have come to harm.

I did however say I was in favour of the case against a spammer setting a precedent so that people causing this sort of harm would think twice before doing similar if there was a now consequence with their responsibility, which you quite rightly say.

This is the problem - there are no consequences at this moment in time for those who abuse social networking sites or the internet in general.

Hope this clarifies my post a little better.

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By *inkershoes69Woman over a year ago

maidstone

i was in london last night, the atmosphere was really bad, couldnt wait to get out

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

now you are bordering on the line of very dangerous idea's... and I'll use the UK Uncut demo at Fortnum and Mason as part of the big TUC demo in London as an example...

they had a peaceful sit in..... police then came in and arrested 139 for "aggravated tresspass" and "criminal damage".....

all well and good.... well... not quite

that would be because...a) there was no damage done.. which even the shop owners admitted... b) the protestors were given assurances by senior police officers they were being led to saftey

point b was contested by the police at the time.. and for the next few days.... right up until the guardian newspaper got hold of footage which backed up exactly what protesters had said..... and it was only at that point that police admitted they had....

so of those 139 "high profile" people the police charged and trumpeted at the time as policing thru social networking sites.... how many did they drop?

139........

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By *he BananamanMan over a year ago

WORCESTERSHIRE

just like kids in a playground fight the dead legs all come out to watch & riot!,just a lame excuse to burn and ruin other peoples property whilst looting!.

it happens so often with these deadlegs i am afraid!.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This is the problem - there are no consequences at this moment in time for those who abuse social networking sites or the internet in general.

Hope this clarifies my post a little better."

Yeah it helps Jech...

Tho, it still reads like you were advocating censorship, no matter how many times I read yer original post. That said you`ve made yer opinion on feedom of speech plain..its prolly a perception thang..kinda aposite!

Yep..there does seem to be an tricky area of accountability, fer those that set up dodgy sites or pages...therein lies the rub.....whose moral compass is gona be operating...terrorist or freedom fighter ?..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Did anyone see me and Mum legging it outta the butchers shop laden with Sausages and ribs on Sky news

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Did anyone see me and Mum legging it outta the butchers shop laden with Sausages and ribs on Sky news

Was it you in the hoodies ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

so many theories, so little .......?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

plenty good money to be made, supplying the ............... (Country Joe n the Fish - I think) all join in now

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"so many theories, so little .......?"

Meat ?..mabye ketchup..?...fuck it ...its the sausages..

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By *nsatiaBullMan over a year ago

Enniskomagh

I grew up in NAM as we call it. the last riot was exactly the same- some nasty low life scum using someones misfortune as an excuse to break the law. this time they decided to loot shops for trainers and beauty products etc. the army should be out with live ammo picking them off for target practice lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yeah it helps Jech...

If you knew me you would smile at your perception, but you don't so I accept your comments of how it looked to you

I saw nothing but anarchy, thieving and complete breakdown of law and order. Nothing seemed like freedom fighting to me. I also couldn't see how facebook and twitter could have that impact on those who were clearly expressing free will to loot and terrorise in what seemed like spontaneity or opportunism and not organised plotting. It was vulgar to watch such open greed and complete lack of any moral fibre amongst these thugs figthing under a false banner of protest at a man being shot down by police. It made my skin crawl at yet another demonstration as to how low man can sink in the name of 'freedom'.

Disclaimer: This is the opinion of the poster is in no way meant to offend anyone with a differing opinion.

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By *urreyfun2008Man over a year ago

East Grinstead

The actions of a few spoil what was meant to be a peaceful protest.

If those involved in riot live locally, then just ruined a lot of chances for work in the area, as businesses will think twice.

Headlines abroad probably 'Police shoot man, riots in London as response' - just what the tourist economy needs.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In the immortal words of Dickens...its the meat...yer shouldn`t feed em meat..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In the immortal words of Dickens...its the meat...yer shouldn`t feed em meat.."

more importantly, after midnight!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yeah it helps Jech...

If you knew me you would smile at your perception, but you don't so I accept your comments of how it looked to you

Disclaimer: This is the opinion of the poster is in no way meant to offend anyone with a differing opinion.

Lol Jech..I know yer well enough..I like yer mind..and values

Oh, I wasn`t defending the reprobates...chancers and scummers...

But its aposite within the context at censorship and perception, to use that ol chestnut..possibly...

I`ve been reading some war poetry recently, and my ol man is on his death bed, everything I see at the moment is stitched with its colour...

I agree, the fuckers ain`t a clue of freedoms...ah well.....the world still turns..

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By *nsatiaBullMan over a year ago

Enniskomagh

isn't it funny how in tottenham that only stealing goodies from your own community is enough to ease the pain of perceived police failings....

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By *entadreadMan over a year ago

Essex

"If your're going to play with guns then you have to expect the consequences.

As for the rioters, they are just as bad. Whilst some people may be outraged by the fact the police shot someone, the looting was just an excuse for anarchy.

All those shops and businesses that are damaged have now had their livlihoods damaged by some mimdless yobs. Some may never open again.

They certainly didn't think of the people living in the flats above. That could have somebodies granny that had to flee.

It makes me mad.

Takes a deep breathe and gets off our soapbox

True Fabio, it was bound to kick off sooner or later, and its all races in the community, the Met has done something that has turned the whole area into a ticking time bomb. I actually thought the riots would take place after the premiership started.

But seeing people running off with bags of oven cooked fries, was hilarious. I saw some with Vegetables as well.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I notice that the Met has come out with a softly softly approach saying it regretted the death of Mark Whateverthecrookwascalled.

Bollox - he was a scumbag, so why don't the police say it like it is - "he fookin fired at us so we fired back and nailed the twat."

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By *rumalexMan over a year ago

Birmingham

"I notice that the Met has come out with a softly softly approach saying it regretted the death of Mark Whateverthecrookwascalled.

Bollox - he was a scumbag, so why don't the police say it like it is - "he fookin fired at us so we fired back and nailed the twat.""

have to agree sometimes telling it the way it is should be the best way, i do think they will try to kick off again tonight though

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By *umourCouple over a year ago

Rushden

"I notice that the Met has come out with a softly softly approach saying it regretted the death of Mark Whateverthecrookwascalled.

Bollox - he was a scumbag, so why don't the police say it like it is - "he fookin fired at us so we fired back and nailed the twat.""

+1.. Not just an ordinary one, but a one that is 30 ft tall and be-decked with lights and sirens.. (Sirens what, I hear you ask. Not THAT Siren, she is way too cute to use in a riot situation!

) No, like Police sirens.

Having checked, water cannons are not OK'd for use in England (it said mainland actually!) I think we should have dye guns where the dye would seep into clothes and will not wash off. Police would certainly know who the bastards were then! Innocent and accidently have dye on you??? WTF were you doing there?

(This is not a disclaimer, I don't give a hoot if you agree or not! And if it upsets you, get a fookin life!

)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I notice that the Met has come out with a softly softly approach saying it regretted the death of Mark Whateverthecrookwascalled.

Bollox - he was a scumbag, so why don't the police say it like it is - "he fookin fired at us so we fired back and nailed the twat."

have to agree sometimes telling it the way it is should be the best way, i do think they will try to kick off again tonight though"

Of course they'll kick off tonight - they need to return to the shop for the remote control they forgot to take last night - modern TVs are useless without the remote.

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By *ornyHorwichCpl aka HHCCouple over a year ago

horwich

Fred got a got a 50" plasma - sorted

Johnny got 11 pairs of size 9 trainers - sweet feet for a year

Albert got50 Xbox games - kids quiet for a week

George, he did Primark and got 50 pairs of £1 kecks in size 6. Should have gone to spec savers.

I did see the boys trying to break into Carpet right which had super strength safety glasss, when the others were already in and stealing carpet sample squares.

priceless!!!!

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By *amschwingerzCouple over a year ago

West

In a bid to help them overcome the grief of the shooting they had to help themselves to a trolley loads of plasmas...I mean surely you can understand that?..its what anyone would do..

What makes me laugh is if it had been a load of football thugs or the EDL the heavy mob would have been there in a flash cracking skulls by the dozen..

What an absolute disgrace on both parties.

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By *amschwingerzCouple over a year ago

West

Sorry...but I think thats complete rubbish...how long are these 'people' going to be defended?...loads of people are poor...they dont act like animals though do they?

So the next time im skint I will just blame the government and go on a looting and robbing spree?...the ol bill shoot a bloke who allegedly shot at them (with his own gun) and some just dive on the band wagon and use it as an excuse for behaving like that...

If they were so poor why didnt it happen last week or last month?

Your 'not sure' if this is the right way?????...well ask the people who's homes and businesses have been robbed and torched and see what they say.

I tell you what...the Notting Hill Carnival is going to be a riot this year...literally!

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

you have it all wrong... the people to blame are the police, the government, the social workers, the teachers, the NHS, the local authorities, BT, Orange, Katie Price, Simon Cowell and every _iewer of the X Factor, Bi guys, Barebackers and a few more...

not the thieving cowardly gang based scum.

They is completely innocent and hard done to.....

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I tell you what...the Notting Hill Carnival is going to be a riot this year...literally!"

it always does.... on the bank holiday monday after it gets dark.. it is always a bit scary so anyone who goes normally tries to get out before then....

can we be a bit cautious here for a couple of reasons....

a) i think we need to seperate those attacks on the police outside the police station, from those who were doing the looting......

2... and a word of caution for those at this point pointing the blame at the guy shot of thursday....

remember john charles de menzies... the police for ages kept changing the story on that before the IPCC found out what really happened....

remember dorothy groce... probably not... but it was her shooting, the shooting of an innocent black woman that led to the brixton riots... in the end it was found that the police lied about there account of what happened...

remember cynthia jarrett... probably not... but it was her shooting, the shooting of an innocent black woman, that led to the original tottenham riots.... in the end it was found that the police lied about there account of what happened

I can understand the lack of trust... the amount of times i'd been stopped and search over the years... i know it can be embarrassing, demeaning, and not very nice....

let the investigations commence before we all rush to judgement about what has happened....

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

anyway its kicking off in Enfield.... apparently its a bit of a battle zone...

and just spoken to a friend who still lives in brixton, apparently its kicking off in parts of there as well...

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

I tell you what...the Notting Hill Carnival is going to be a riot this year...literally!

it always does.... on the bank holiday monday after it gets dark.. it is always a bit scary so anyone who goes normally tries to get out before then....

can we be a bit cautious here for a couple of reasons....

a) i think we need to seperate those attacks on the police outside the police station, from those who were doing the looting......

2... and a word of caution for those at this point pointing the blame at the guy shot of thursday....

remember john charles de menzies... the police for ages kept changing the story on that before the IPCC found out what really happened....

I can understand the lack of trust... the amount of times i'd been stopped and search over the years... i know it can be embarrassing, demeaning, and not very nice....

let the investigations commence before we all rush to judgement about what has happened....

every action up to the end of the peaceful vigil completely acceptable and respected till the investigation completes....

there after..... shameful.

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By *waymanMan over a year ago

newcastle

"I notice that the Met has come out with a softly softly approach saying it regretted the death of Mark Whateverthecrookwascalled.

Bollox - he was a scumbag, so why don't the police say it like it is - "he fookin fired at us so we fired back and nailed the twat.""

Hmmm, the latest reports tonight suggets that the bullet recovered from a police officers kit (radio?) was police issue - so if that's true chummy got his brains blown out because of blue on blue fire.

Like the police officers involved you may regret your premature intervention, as well as your god awful keyboard warrior rhetoric...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That is a great post Fabio and so much information needs to be sifted through.

For example one caller/witness on Sky News was saying that the problems escalated after the police didn't send out a senior officer to receive the complaints of the protestors.

And further that the real bother began when (the caller said) the police began beating a female protestor.

ALL THIS MAY NOT BE TRUE and it's only one side of the story from a guy on the news. But let's wait before declaring martial law and closing down twitbook.

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By *rumalexMan over a year ago

Birmingham

"I notice that the Met has come out with a softly softly approach saying it regretted the death of Mark Whateverthecrookwascalled.

Bollox - he was a scumbag, so why don't the police say it like it is - "he fookin fired at us so we fired back and nailed the twat."

Like the police officers involved you may regret your premature intervention, as well as your god awful keyboard warrior rhetoric..."

if it was a police issue bullet, it was not necesarily fired by a policeman, where do you think some of the gangsters and criminals get some their firearms and weapons from?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I notice that the Met has come out with a softly softly approach saying it regretted the death of Mark Whateverthecrookwascalled.

Bollox - he was a scumbag, so why don't the police say it like it is - "he fookin fired at us so we fired back and nailed the twat."

Like the police officers involved you may regret your premature intervention, as well as your god awful keyboard warrior rhetoric..."

Three shots were fired, two from the police and one from the perp. The fact that the dead man fired his weapon meant that he was prepared to kill with it.

If he was a peaceable sorta chap why didn't he put his hands up and allow himself to be searched and arrested?

You seem to have all the answers so come on 'chum', let us all in on the truth eh?

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

The rioting and looting to one side....

Am I alone in thinking that it might be prudent to await the outcome of the PCC enquiry into the fatal shooting BEFORE we start to describe this dead man as 'Scum' and worse?

If you look at the Sky reports into the incident tonight there seems to be MAJOR doubts that this man even had a gun....as it is being leaked that the police couldn't find a firearm at the scene of the shooting.

So lets not get carried away with badmouthing the dead man UNTIL we find out the actual facts eh?.....

Just a thought

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By *waymanMan over a year ago

newcastle

"I notice that the Met has come out with a softly softly approach saying it regretted the death of Mark Whateverthecrookwascalled.

Bollox - he was a scumbag, so why don't the police say it like it is - "he fookin fired at us so we fired back and nailed the twat."

Like the police officers involved you may regret your premature intervention, as well as your god awful keyboard warrior rhetoric...

if it was a police issue bullet, it was not necesarily fired by a policeman, where do you think some of the gangsters and criminals get some their firearms and weapons from?"

Right, so you want me to explain how it is that the police are now briefing the journos that the round recovered from one of their officers looks like a police hollow point round? And you want me to seriously address a conspiracy theory that someone in the police is selling hollow point rounds to gangsters?

Good work there - I think the rush to judgement should be delayed, and you want me to engage with a mad conspiracy theory - no thanks...

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

I used the word and it was directed to the looters.

Not the deceased x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The rioting and looting to one side....

Am I alone in thinking that it might be prudent to await the outcome of the PCC enquiry into the fatal shooting BEFORE we start to describe this dead man as 'Scum' and worse?

So lets not get carried away with badmouthing the dead man UNTIL we find out the actual facts eh?.....

Just a thought"

Sky's main feature on the story is still saying that a non-police firearm was retrieved at the scene.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"That is a great post Fabio and so much information needs to be sifted through.

For example one caller/witness on Sky News was saying that the problems escalated after the police didn't send out a senior officer to receive the complaints of the protestors.

And further that the real bother began when (the caller said) the police began beating a female protestor.

ALL THIS MAY NOT BE TRUE and it's only one side of the story from a guy on the news. But let's wait before declaring martial law and closing down twitbook."

I have heard about both of those... I just find it interesting that the Police were trying to hide behind the IPCC yesterday.. but did offer up someone low to speak to the crowd.. when they said the person was not high enough up in the force they go silent, which is interesting that after thursday incident they gave their side of what happened to the media, which is actually against IPCC rules...

and yes.. i have seen the countless reports about the 16yr old who got set upon by approx 15 riot police with shields and batons... (funny enough it is only the guardian that reported that bit, the rest of the media seem to have gone a bit silent there)

and before people think I am being a bit harsh.... remember there are two sides to each story... that police have managed to get out there side of what has happened in the last few days.. and unfortunely dead people don't speak....

I am just asking people to be more cautious...

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By *waymanMan over a year ago

newcastle

"I notice that the Met has come out with a softly softly approach saying it regretted the death of Mark Whateverthecrookwascalled.

Bollox - he was a scumbag, so why don't the police say it like it is - "he fookin fired at us so we fired back and nailed the twat."

Like the police officers involved you may regret your premature intervention, as well as your god awful keyboard warrior rhetoric...

Three shots were fired, two from the police and one from the perp. The fact that the dead man fired his weapon meant that he was prepared to kill with it.

If he was a peaceable sorta chap why didn't he put his hands up and allow himself to be searched and arrested?

You seem to have all the answers so come on 'chum', let us all in on the truth eh?

no, I don't have all the answers. I don't even believe that chummy fired a gun till someone books the gun in as property and a paraffin test on his hands comes up trumps.

Why are you calling me chum? Did you not get my ironic joke about how Met officers refer to some perps as chummy in conversation? Ah well...

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"I used the word and it was directed to the looters.

Not the deceased x"

It wasn't directed at your post View...

He was referred to as a 'Scumbag' by another member.

The rioters and looters are indeed disgusting, ripping the heart out of their own community....and doubtless used the shooting as an excuse for their actions, which have been bubbling away under the surface for years.

But as I said, might be a good idea to see what actually comes to light over the shooting before jumping to conclusions.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"The rioting and looting to one side....

Am I alone in thinking that it might be prudent to await the outcome of the PCC enquiry into the fatal shooting BEFORE we start to describe this dead man as 'Scum' and worse?

So lets not get carried away with badmouthing the dead man UNTIL we find out the actual facts eh?.....

Just a thought

Sky's main feature on the story is still saying that a non-police firearm was retrieved at the scene."

ahem... you might not wish to read the front of the guardian website right now.......

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By *rumalexMan over a year ago

Birmingham

"I notice that the Met has come out with a softly softly approach saying it regretted the death of Mark Whateverthecrookwascalled.

Bollox - he was a scumbag, so why don't the police say it like it is - "he fookin fired at us so we fired back and nailed the twat."

Like the police officers involved you may regret your premature intervention, as well as your god awful keyboard warrior rhetoric...

if it was a police issue bullet, it was not necesarily fired by a policeman, where do you think some of the gangsters and criminals get some their firearms and weapons from?

Good work there - I think the rush to judgement should be delayed, and you want me to engage with a mad conspiracy theory - no thanks..."

i agree best to wait until any inquests are over, but if you don'tthink that dodgy police and gangsters don't deal with each other you need to come chat to some of the people that i know

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have reaad elsewhere that Mark Duggan was shot while cuffed and on the floor. I have no idea if it us true but that is one of the _umours. I also note that despite the fact that they have killed him and having seen the armed police en route on Thursday so from first hand I know there was clearly a huge sense of urgency (I was scared by the speed they were driving), I don;t think I've seen anywhere just what he was wanted for in order for such tactics to be used.

The Chales de Menezes comments are very, very relevent. The police can and do massively fuck up.

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By *amschwingerzCouple over a year ago

West

"I notice that the Met has come out with a softly softly approach saying it regretted the death of Mark Whateverthecrookwascalled.

Bollox - he was a scumbag, so why don't the police say it like it is - "he fookin fired at us so we fired back and nailed the twat."

Like the police officers involved you may regret your premature intervention, as well as your god awful keyboard warrior rhetoric...

Three shots were fired, two from the police and one from the perp. The fact that the dead man fired his weapon meant that he was prepared to kill with it.

If he was a peaceable sorta chap why didn't he put his hands up and allow himself to be searched and arrested?

You seem to have all the answers so come on 'chum', let us all in on the truth eh?

To be fair I have heard this too but I cant find the source..

Fabio makes a valid point about pre judging..I guess we can only go by what we are told in the media at the time..

I remember the Menzes case well and all of the urban myths that hit the headlines the following day...the police have indeed made mistakes in the past...and what looked like cover ups in the case of the newspaper Ian Tomlinson..

And, again as Fabio said the two incidents should be separated..to a degree..the shooting of the guy rightly (or sadly wrongly) should never have provoked the reaction it did..Ken Livingston has already issued a statement blaming the Tory government...

And what excuse will they use about tonight?...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why are you calling me chum? Did you not get my ironic joke about how Met officers refer to some perps as chummy in conversation? Ah well..."

I think you'll find 'chum/chummy' is used across London by all sorts of people. Usually by someone to someone who isn't classed as friend. Get the irony now, chum?

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By *waymanMan over a year ago

newcastle

"I notice that the Met has come out with a softly softly approach saying it regretted the death of Mark Whateverthecrookwascalled.

Bollox - he was a scumbag, so why don't the police say it like it is - "he fookin fired at us so we fired back and nailed the twat."

Like the police officers involved you may regret your premature intervention, as well as your god awful keyboard warrior rhetoric...

if it was a police issue bullet, it was not necesarily fired by a policeman, where do you think some of the gangsters and criminals get some their firearms and weapons from?

Good work there - I think the rush to judgement should be delayed, and you want me to engage with a mad conspiracy theory - no thanks...

i agree best to wait until any inquests are over, but if you don'tthink that dodgy police and gangsters don't deal with each other you need to come chat to some of the people that i know "

I have no doubt that recovered property can go astray en route, and end up being recycled, but the idea that police kit that is carefully marshalled and managed goes walk about is just plain daft.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Ken Livingston has already issued a statement blaming the Tory government..."

Red Ken is living dinosaur of Labour's wreckless past. The sooner that daft old sod shuffles off to the retirement home for decripit old socialists the better for everyone.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago
Forum Mod

There has been a statement by the ICCP today that maybe some people should read to clarify a few _umours that have been rumbling around this thread

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By *waymanMan over a year ago

newcastle

"Why are you calling me chum? Did you not get my ironic joke about how Met officers refer to some perps as chummy in conversation? Ah well...

I think you'll find 'chum/chummy' is used across London by all sorts of people. Usually by someone to someone who isn't classed as friend. Get the irony now, chum?"

No I don't. I didn't call you chummy, and you're getting an attitude for reasons that probably aren't worth exploring. Probably best if we both assume the other isn't a member of our fan clubs eh?

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

Before we get carried away....let us remember the last time a major riot happened on the Broadwater Estate in Tottenham in 1985, and the three men blamed for the death of PC Keith Blakelock.

Winston Silcott was wrongly convicted of the murder of the PC, Five different Police Officers swore in court that Silcott was there and did the killing...even seen walking down the street with a blood soaked machete.

Trouble is he wasn't even on the estate on the night of the murder, and he was subsequently acquitted Nine years later and Two poilice officers were prosecuted for fabricating evidence.

So maybe a little restraint before making hasty assumptions about the matter?

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"There has been a statement by the ICCP today that maybe some people should read to clarify a few _umours that have been rumbling around this thread "

if the next IPCC statement is what the guardian are now reporting.... then, if ture, the Police are now going to have a lot of explaining to do... it will take them years to get trust back

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago
Forum Mod

"There has been a statement by the ICCP today that maybe some people should read to clarify a few _umours that have been rumbling around this thread

if the next IPCC statement is what the guardian are now reporting.... then, if ture, the Police are now going to have a lot of explaining to do... it will take them years to get trust back"

oooops I meant IPCC

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By *rumalexMan over a year ago

Birmingham

"There has been a statement by the ICCP today that maybe some people should read to clarify a few _umours that have been rumbling around this thread

if the next IPCC statement is what the guardian are now reporting.... then, if ture, the Police are now going to have a lot of explaining to do... it will take them years to get trust back"

thats assuming they had any trust in the police in the first place, from my personal dealings with the police i find it very hard to trust them generally.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why are you calling me chum? Did you not get my ironic joke about how Met officers refer to some perps as chummy in conversation? Ah well...

I think you'll find 'chum/chummy' is used across London by all sorts of people. Usually by someone to someone who isn't classed as friend. Get the irony now, chum?

No I don't. I didn't call you chummy, and you're getting an attitude for reasons that probably aren't worth exploring. Probably best if we both assume the other isn't a member of our fan clubs eh?"

I don't mind anyone answering my posts on here if they disagree with what I've said, that's what these forums are all about, but you almost always disagree with me (probably for no better reason than it's me saying it), which I don't have a problem with per se, but you *always* end your posts with a sly personal dig that is childish and immature for someone who clearly has a cerebrum but has not yet learned how to use it to it's fullest extent.

Therefore, as you suggest, it's probably best if we refrain from commenting on each other posts.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

Oh don't start for gods sake. If you have a problem with each other take it private, as it is spoiling a good debate.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There has been a statement by the ICCP today that maybe some people should read to clarify a few _umours that have been rumbling around this thread

if the next IPCC statement is what the guardian are now reporting.... then, if ture, the Police are now going to have a lot of explaining to do... it will take them years to get trust back"

It's not been picked up on the Telegraph yet. All it says on there is that reports Duggan was assassinated were categorically untrue.

It does make one wonder who is responsible for putting this story out. It certainly wouldn't have been the police, not this soon in an investigation and not before damage limitation had been conducted if it is true. There are a lot of people on the ground in north London tonight who are clearly not from the areas affected. People have been heard on mobile phones asking things like "when are you getting to Enfield" so an organised campaign is being waged and putting out a story saying Duggan's gun wasn't fired could be a part of that ruse.

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By *amschwingerzCouple over a year ago

West

Just been watching the stuff going on in Enfield..the media are reporting that gangs of youths are texting and phoning each other where to meets and turning up in cars etc...which totally blows the theory about problems in the community and social deprivation out of the water.

Its just an excuse for the vermin to play 'chase' with the ol bill and do a bit of nicking at the same time.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/08/11 22:46:14]

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

i dont know the ins and outs of this case,having not really caught up on the news ,but the rioting seems opportunistic (especially tonights in enfield).

I do believe that we have to get a grip of gun crime,i think even if caught carrying a gun illegally it should be a substantial sentence at least 10 years with no remission ,i mean you dont pack a gun for fashion you pack it as a threat and to harm.

if caught using one it should be a minimum of 20 years if injury occured or not ,i think its time we toughened up on drugs and gun crime before we lose it completely.

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple over a year ago

hexham

"I notice that the Met has come out with a softly softly approach saying it regretted the death of Mark Whateverthecrookwascalled.

Bollox - he was a scumbag, so why don't the police say it like it is - "he fookin fired at us so we fired back and nailed the twat.""

Wow, i didnt realise you had been there, here was i thinking he was a community activist who was used by the police to defuse gang crime.

Where were you exactly when you saw the "scumbag" open fire. Can u explain why the gun found by him was not discharged,and why the only bullets found at the scene were from police weapons.

i am sure the ipcc will find your testimony very useful,because we all know the met have never shot an innocent man in the back due to mistaken identity,

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I notice that the Met has come out with a softly softly approach saying it regretted the death of Mark Whateverthecrookwascalled.

Bollox - he was a scumbag, so why don't the police say it like it is - "he fookin fired at us so we fired back and nailed the twat."

Wow, i didnt realise you had been there, here was i thinking he was a community activist who was used by the police to defuse gang crime.

Where were you exactly when you saw the "scumbag" open fire. Can u explain why the gun found by him was not discharged,and why the only bullets found at the scene were from police weapons.

i am sure the ipcc will find your testimony very useful,because we all know the met have never shot an innocent man in the back due to mistaken identity,

Whether he opened fire or not is irrelevant, he had an illegal firearm on his person, maybe the police gave it to him to go out and 'defuse' some more gang crime.

Even his own friends and family ar saying that was 'into some stuff' and in my interpretation of streetlife (I grew up on a council sink estate in Luton so I know the terminology well enough), being 'into stuff' is a cast iron gaurantee that the stuff in question is most definately illegal.

If he was working with the police, why did the police need to to track him on Thursday and try to arrest him? Surely as a co-operative between the police and the community he could have walked into any police station at any time for a nice little chat.

Why did he resist arrest to the point where the use of firearms was deemed neccessary?

That doesn't sound like a community activist to me.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

He resisted arrest?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How do you know he resisted arrest? The Guardian are stating that the gun was in a sock and couldn't be used. I've read elsewhere that he was in the floor when he was shot. I cant help but be suspicious of all reporting of his arrest.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/08/11 00:35:12]

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

Who would ever believe an innocent Brazilian National would be executed on a London underground train while he was pinned to the floor by a policemans boot?

Purlease!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ah you are right as Charles de Menezes would tell you if he were still alive that could never happen here could it?

As your version of events is based in speculation, is it to crazy to speculate that one of the officers fired in error (the bullet in the radio) and they have reacted assuming that he was shooting?

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple over a year ago

hexham

"Ah right, so a police officer accompanied by a memeber of SO19 simply walked up to the cab, peeked inside, decided that he was the man they wanted and shot him - twice?

Purlease!"

yeah cos a brazillian off to work wasnt shot by mistake.

You might want to deny it, however...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/police-attack-london-burns

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ah right, so a police officer accompanied by a memeber of CO19 simply walked up to the cab, peeked inside, decided that he was the man they wanted and shot him - twice?

Purlease!

From BBC News:

"In a statement it said: "At around 6.15 officers from Trident, accompanied by officers from the Specialist Firearms Command (CO19), stopped a minicab in Ferry Lane, Tottenham to carry out an arrest. "

Note that last part - to carry out an arrest. He was asked to stop several times and failed to do so.

I'd call that resisting arrest.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"Ah right, so a police officer accompanied by a memeber of CO19 simply walked up to the cab, peeked inside, decided that he was the man they wanted and shot him - twice?

Purlease!

From BBC News:

Note that last part - to carry out an arrest. He was asked to stop several times and failed to do so.

I'd call that resisting arrest."

Asked to stop several times?

He was a passenger in a feckin' minicab!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Ah right, so a police officer accompanied by a memeber of CO19 simply walked up to the cab, peeked inside, decided that he was the man they wanted and shot him - twice?

Purlease!

From BBC News:

Note that last part - to carry out an arrest. He was asked to stop several times and failed to do so.

I'd call that resisting arrest."

What are you talking about? How trhe hell do you deduce from that he was asked to stop several times? Or that he resisted? Carry out an arrest is standard terminology in that sort of statement.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

yeah cos a brazillian off to work wasnt shot by mistake.

You might want to deny it, however...

A Brazilian who's visa had expired and then ran from the police chasing him and into a subway train wearing a rucksack.

And this just 3 weeks after the 7/7 terrosist attacks on the London underground network by non western men wearing rucksacks.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Ah right, so a police officer accompanied by a memeber of CO19 simply walked up to the cab, peeked inside, decided that he was the man they wanted and shot him - twice?

Purlease!

From BBC News:

Note that last part - to carry out an arrest. He was asked to stop several times and failed to do so.

I'd call that resisting arrest.

What are you talking about? How trhe hell do you deduce from that he was asked to stop several times? Or that he resisted? Carry out an arrest is standard terminology in that sort of statement."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14423942

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Asked to stop several times?

He was a passenger in a feckin' minicab!"

Allegedly.

Had the cab just arrived in the area from somewhere else?

Had he just got in it?

How far had he travelled in it?

Did he climb in the cab when he saw the police officers in an attempt to evade them as he knew he had a gun on his person?

Did he hide the gun in his sock soon after getting in the cab hoping it wouldn't be found when searched.

Just a passenger eh?

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

In the inquest into his death it was established that he wasn't running at all, in fact he was seated in the train when he was challenged by the police officer who was in plain clothes.

He was then pinned down upside down on the train seat, his head and neck on the floor, his feet kicking against the train window.....There were Eleven rounds diascharged by Two police officers, in a period of approx THIRTY SECONDS AT THREE SECOND INTERVALS.

Seven shots entered his head and one in his shoulder.

His crime?

Being a tanned skinned man wearing a rucksack on a train.

The police involved lied their way through the subsequent enquiry.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A Brazilian who's visa had expired and then ran from the police chasing him and into a subway train wearing a rucksack.

And this just 3 weeks after the 7/7 terrosist attacks on the London underground network by non western men wearing rucksacks."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2008/sep/22/ukcrime.uksecurity

That links to the actual CCTV footage, There is a notable lack of either running or rucksack. And lots of people run for the tube whikle carrying rucksacks...

But the initial claims (that he was carriying a rucksack, that he had a heavy winter coat on, that he ran) have all been proven to be police lies. And lets not forget after he was pinned on the floor he was shot 8 times, 7 in the head.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"Asked to stop several times?

He was a passenger in a feckin' minicab!

Allegedly.

Had the cab just arrived in the area from somewhere else?

Had he just got in it?

How far had he travelled in it?

Did he climb in the cab when he saw the police officers in an attempt to evade them as he knew he had a gun on his person?

Did he hide the gun in his sock soon after getting in the cab hoping it wouldn't be found when searched.

Just a passenger eh?"

Well the police stated that they had stopped a minicab to take a suspect into custody...

"Shots were fired and a 29-year-old man, who was a passenger in the cab, died at the scene," the IPCC spokesman said.

But lets not silly facts get in the way of a good story eh?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A Brazilian who's visa had expired and then ran from the police chasing him and into a subway train wearing a rucksack.

And this just 3 weeks after the 7/7 terrosist attacks on the London underground network by non western men wearing rucksacks."

I have read this thread most of what you seem to know as being absolute certainty appears to me to be very open to debate but fair enough, we can agree to differ

But now you are really heading to sub-Rush Limbaugh bollocks with your comments. *As I undertand it* De Menezes was not running away from the police, he was running FOR a train.

The copper who was supposed to be watching for suspects leaving the building de Menezes lived in was taking a piss against a tree when he left so he did not even ID the guy properly, he just saw someone with vaguely darkish skin but not as dark as the photoshopped picture the Met used to defend their actions.

I also did not realise the punishment for an expired visa was death, I had better check my TV licence and car tax disc.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Ah right, so a police officer accompanied by a memeber of CO19 simply walked up to the cab, peeked inside, decided that he was the man they wanted and shot him - twice?

Purlease!

From BBC News:

Note that last part - to carry out an arrest. He was asked to stop several times and failed to do so.

I'd call that resisting arrest.

What are you talking about? How trhe hell do you deduce from that he was asked to stop several times? Or that he resisted? Carry out an arrest is standard terminology in that sort of statement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14423942"

I reepeat, how from that do you deduce he was stopped several times and was resisting arrest?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In July 2006, the Crown Prosecution Service said there was insufficient evidence to prosecute any of the officers, although a corporate criminal prosecution of the Metropolitan Police was brought under the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974. This alleged that the police service had failed in its duty of care to Menezes. After lodging a not guilty plea, on 1 November 2007 the service was found guilty and was fined, although the JURY added that the operational commander on the day, Cressida Dick, bore "no personal culpability". On 22 September 2008 an inquest was opened. The coroner, Sir Michael Wright, told the jury that they could not return a verdict of unlawful killing based on the evidence, and on 12 December 2008, they returned an open verdict.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14423942

I reepeat, how from that do you deduce he was stopped several times and was resisting arrest?"

I posted the link to the news item. I'm not pasting the whole thing in here as that would be pointless. And use unneccessary bandwidth.

Go read the article yourself.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In July 2006, the Crown Prosecution Service said there was insufficient evidence to prosecute any of the officers, although a corporate criminal prosecution of the Metropolitan Police was brought under the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974. This alleged that the police service had failed in its duty of care to Menezes. After lodging a not guilty plea, on 1 November 2007 the service was found guilty and was fined, although the JURY added that the operational commander on the day, Cressida Dick, bore "no personal culpability". On 22 September 2008 an inquest was opened. The coroner, Sir Michael Wright, told the jury that they could not return a verdict of unlawful killing based on the evidence, and on 12 December 2008, they returned an open verdict.

And in a rather less important situation, the executives of News International assured us phone hacking was the work of a single rogue reporter and a private investigator.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14423942

I reepeat, how from that do you deduce he was stopped several times and was resisting arrest?

I posted the link to the news item. I'm not pasting the whole thing in here as that would be pointless. And use unneccessary bandwidth.

Go read the article yourself."

I've read it. And I repeat the question, how do you conclude, other than from your own prejudiced _iewpoint that he was resisting arrest?

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

Sept. 22nd 1999

Hackney, London....

Totally innocent man shot dead by police CO19 officers, they later found out that the 'Sawn off Shotgun' he was carrying in his Tesco's carrier bag was a coffee table leg he was repairing for his Sister in Law......

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I didn't know about the Tottenham Riots until reading this thread, lol

Shoot them all, they won't riot again then.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"And in a rather less important situation, the executives of News International assured us phone hacking was the work of a single rogue reporter and a private investigator.

The Guardian too, it now seems. I wonder who else if not all of them. I bet those sacked NOTW workers are feeling mightily pissed off that they lost their jobs but everyone else gets to keep theirs so long as they said, "Er... scuse me... um... we might have hacked a few mobiles too. Sorry bout that."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I didn't know about the Tottenham Riots until reading this thread, lol

Shoot them all, they won't riot again then."

No let's start by shooting all those people who gather on swinging sites. They are all disgusting. Kill 'em all and there will be no more STDs, unwanted pregnancies, rape etc etc.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14423942

I reepeat, how from that do you deduce he was stopped several times and was resisting arrest?

I posted the link to the news item. I'm not pasting the whole thing in here as that would be pointless. And use unneccessary bandwidth.

Go read the article yourself.

I've read it. And I repeat the question, how do you conclude, other than from your own prejudiced _iewpoint that he was resisting arrest?"

You must have missed the first two paragraphs. Here they, just for you.

"A man shot dead by police in north London was a passenger in a minicab stopped during a planned operation, the police watchdog has said.

Officers stopped the car in Ferry Lane, Tottenham, on Thursday to carry out an arrest when the 29-year-old man, named locally as Mark Duggan, was shot

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

ok, you first then

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14423942

I reepeat, how from that do you deduce he was stopped several times and was resisting arrest?

I posted the link to the news item. I'm not pasting the whole thing in here as that would be pointless. And use unneccessary bandwidth.

Go read the article yourself.

I've read it. And I repeat the question, how do you conclude, other than from your own prejudiced _iewpoint that he was resisting arrest?

You must have missed the first two paragraphs. Here they, just for you.

"A man shot dead by police in north London was a passenger in a minicab stopped during a planned operation, the police watchdog has said.

Officers stopped the car in Ferry Lane, Tottenham, on Thursday to carry out an arrest when the 29-year-old man, named locally as Mark Duggan, was shot

So NOTHING about him resisting arrest then?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14423942

I reepeat, how from that do you deduce he was stopped several times and was resisting arrest?

I posted the link to the news item. I'm not pasting the whole thing in here as that would be pointless. And use unneccessary bandwidth.

Go read the article yourself.

I've read it. And I repeat the question, how do you conclude, other than from your own prejudiced _iewpoint that he was resisting arrest?

You must have missed the first two paragraphs. Here they, just for you.

"A man shot dead by police in north London was a passenger in a minicab stopped during a planned operation, the police watchdog has said.

Officers stopped the car in Ferry Lane, Tottenham, on Thursday to carry out an arrest when the 29-year-old man, named locally as Mark Duggan, was shot

But where does that say "resisting arrest"?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wishy are you reading in a different language or something because no ine else seems to be interpreting that as resisting arrest or seeing that it in anyway quantifies your earlier comments.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A 29-year-old man, named locally as father-of-four Mark Duggan, was shot twice by an officer from the Metropolitan Police's specialist firearms team CO19 in Ferry Lane, as part of the force's Operation Trident after a shoot-out at about 6.15pm.

The officer who was shot at appears to have been saved by his police radio, after a bullet was found lodged in it. The officer was taken to hospital but later discharged.

Sounds like he was happy to be arrested then.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Don't quite see the relevance of that. You justified your ealy argument regarding Duggan by the logic that De Menezes effectively deserved it by running and having a rucksack. But that is wrong, I have linked to actual CCTV footage but you are conveniently ignoring that.

So in the face of the fact that he neither ran nor was carrying a rucksack do you still maintain that the police did nothing wrong? And that therefore we have nothing to fear that the police did anything wrong on Thursday?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well I'd hazard a guess that if he wasn't resisting arrest he would have been.. well... arrested. Seems quite simple to me.

His family have described him as a normal father-of-four.

I wonder how many normal fathers-of-four up and down the land, just before they leave their houses, put their wallets in their back pockets, their keys in their front pockets, and then slip a Smith & Wesson into their socks???

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sept. 22nd 1999

Hackney, London....

I also have doubts regarding the police statement that during a raid on his house, reggae singer Smiley Culture stabbed himself through the heart!

...As you would!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sept. 22nd 1999

Hackney, London....

I also have doubts regarding the police statement that during a raid on his house, reggae singer Smiley Culture stabbed himself through the heart!

...As you would!"

Did he not manage to stab himself twice?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sept. 22nd 1999

Hackney, London....

I also have doubts regarding the police statement that during a raid on his house, reggae singer Smiley Culture stabbed himself through the heart!

...As you would!

Did he not manage to stab himself twice?"

Nope. A single stab wound.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQriZQbTcjk

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sept. 22nd 1999

Hackney, London....

I also have doubts regarding the police statement that during a raid on his house, reggae singer Smiley Culture stabbed himself through the heart!

...As you would!"

I refuse to believe that our own police force is going around deliberately murdering people. This is Great Britain, not some far flung corner of Africa, or some corrupt former Soviet Union rogue state. If this is what Britain is these days then it's a Britain I do not want to live nor raise my children in.

Who knows what really happened to Smiley Culture? Only those in his house that day. Did he stab himself but unintentionally kill himself? Maybe he thought he could get a police brutality rap going and decided to self harm but got it wrong. Who knows. Maybe he went for a knife and a scuffle broke out? Who knows.

Was he murdered by the police? I refuse to believe that.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Sept. 22nd 1999

Hackney, London....

I also have doubts regarding the police statement that during a raid on his house, reggae singer Smiley Culture stabbed himself through the heart!

...As you would!

Was he murdered by the police? I refuse to believe that."

Well, I'm pretty sure the police aren't infallible any more than the Vatican is.

I doubt it's a actual 'plan', but for sure, on some occasion, some policeman will murder somebody. Not 'the police', but some policeman.

With respect to the Brazilian fellow, he was shot deliberately for sure. You can't possibly shoot somebody half a dozen times in the head in an attempt to catch him, the intent was to kill. After that many shots, I'm just surprised he still had a head on. But they got the wrong guy.

Mostly though, the police in western countries are relatively corruption free. Shoot to kill policies are almost always about terrorism, not run of the mill business like drug dealing, otherwise we'd know it because our streets would be covered in bodies by now.

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By *waymanMan over a year ago

newcastle

"Oh don't start for gods sake. If you have a problem with each other take it private, as it is spoiling a good debate."

Who's starting? The ad hominem attacks are all coming in one direction. I don't think you can hold me accountable for someone else's paranoia.

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By *waymanMan over a year ago

newcastle

The officer who was shot at appears to have been saved by his police radio, after a bullet was found lodged in it. The officer was taken to hospital but later discharged.

Sounds like he was happy to be arrested then."

Initial forensics say the bullet in question was a police hollow point round - which makes sense since a normal round from a 9mm would go straight through a radio, and quite possibly through a vest at that sort of range.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oh don't start for gods sake. If you have a problem with each other take it private, as it is spoiling a good debate.

Who's starting? The ad hominem attacks are all coming in one direction. I don't think you can hold me accountable for someone else's paranoia."

_wayman wrote:

Like the police officers involved you may regret your premature intervention, as well as your god awful keyboard warrior rhetoric...

As I said before, you can disagree with someone and that's acceptable, but why the personal dig at the end of your posts?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i dont know the ins and outs of this case,having not really caught up on the news ,but the rioting seems opportunistic (especially tonights in enfield).

if caught using one it should be a minimum of 20 years if injury occured or not ,i think its time we toughened up on drugs and gun crime before we lose it completely."

PD for Justice Minister

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The officer who was shot at appears to have been saved by his police radio, after a bullet was found lodged in it. The officer was taken to hospital but later discharged.

Sounds like he was happy to be arrested then.

It should be noted that although hollow-point rounds are used by the UK police, they are not used exclusively by the police. Only ballistics will reveal conclusively whether the bullet found lodged in the police officer's radio came from an another officer's firearm or from Duggan's.

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By *orestersCouple over a year ago

The Forest

I'm glad they shot and killed the thug, the inquest will be much less of a strain financially on the tax-payer than a trial and subsequent imprisonment, and it's one less piece of shit on the street.

As for the riots, to be honest, the class of people that live in areas like Tottenham and Brixton etc are just so low on the evolutionary scale that a bomb dropped on the area would only raise the average IQ.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm glad they shot and killed the thug, the inquest will be much less of a strain financially on the tax-payer than a trial and subsequent imprisonment, and it's one less piece of shit on the street.

Wow, impressively vile.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

It never ceases to amaze me on here...these comments are unbelievable.

I am not sure what I am hoping for, that you are saying it to wind up the pot or that you actually think this.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

unacceptable !

simple as

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

funny enough that is what certain people said that about jean charles de menzies before the truth finally came out.....

" As for the riots, to be honest, the class of people that live in areas like Tottenham and Brixton etc are just so low on the evolutionary scale that a bomb dropped on the area would only raise the average IQ.

wow...

if that was meant as some sort of joke then that was way way off base...

if you actually meant what you wrote... well.... I am not actually angry.. I feel so sad that people would think of other human beings with such low regard.. I find myself actually pitying you....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Words nearly fail me...you must be trolling....

No decent, balanced person could hold that _iew..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I know we are all entitled to our own opinions but with 1 like that I wouldnt fancy your chances of many more meets on here

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It never ceases to amaze me on here...these comments are unbelievable.

I am not sure what I am hoping for, that you are saying it to wind up the pot or that you actually think this. "

I can understand what he's trying to say, without condoning his choice of words. I've never seen the populace of Solihull rioting, nor Chigwell for that matter, or Harpenden, or Buckingham. It always seems to be in places where there is a high % of the underclass in our society. Tottenham, Enfield, and Brixton all have residents who abide by the law and who condemn the recent violence as much as anyone else, maybe even more so considering their own communites have been put to the torch, but, like my own home town - Luton, it never seems to take much to get the trouble makers out onto the streets with a placard in one hand proclaiming peaceful protest and a petrol bomb in the other just in case.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

[Removed by poster at 08/08/11 11:14:28]

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

Actually, I won't bother.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"Actually, I won't bother."

My thoughts exactly....I am to be honest too gobsmacked.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The use of the term underclass - a little crass but says so much really doesn't it?

"The underclass" to which you refer are presumably those that live in more deprived areas - do you think that maybe just maybe that that sociasl depravtion is why there is riotting in Tottenham, why the EDL were formned in Luton?

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple over a year ago

hexham

"Actually, I won't bother.

My thoughts exactly....I am to be honest too gobsmacked."

Not gobsmacked, just don't see the point,any attempt to explain will be ignored.

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By *orestersCouple over a year ago

The Forest

"The use of the term underclass - a little crass but says so much really doesn't it?

I didn't actually use the term "underclass" - I do wish people would read posts properly and not comment on non-existent phraseology.

I was stationed in Brixton and on duty for both the major riots they had in the area. I endured bricks being thrown at my ambulance and crowds of these animals blocking us from taking patients with life-threatening conditions down vital routes to hospital.

I also witnessed on many occasions, people being forced out of their homes and businesses wrecked, just because of the colour of their skin.

I challenge anyone - look at the pictures of the rioters, then look at the pictures of the people clearing up their destroyed lives - tell me if you notice anything in particular.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I didn't actually use the term "underclass" - I do wish people would read posts properly and not comment on non-existent phraseology.

I didn't say that you did. Wishy used it when agreeing with your comments.

It is kind of a mute point though considering your terminology was even more basic and crass.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Care to expand on your thesis?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I was stationed in Brixton and on duty for both the major riots they had in the area. I endured bricks being thrown at my ambulance and crowds of these animals blocking us from taking patients with life-threatening conditions down vital routes to hospital.

It scares me that someone so openly prejudiced works in a job where they save lives.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It scares me that someone so openly prejudiced works in a job where they save lives.

how is it prejudism to call someone who throws bricks at an ambulance an animal?

Such a person is an animal as it is in the animal kingdom that the weak are openly preyed upon by those stronger than themselves.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"I challenge anyone - look at the pictures of the rioters, then look at the pictures of the people clearing up their destroyed lives - tell me if you notice anything in particular."

Enlighten us then....I am sure you have your own delightful thoughts on the matter.....I think I can guess what you are getting at, but lets hear it from you.

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By *orestersCouple over a year ago

The Forest

It scares me that someone so openly prejudiced works in a job where they save lives.

I love the word "crass" - so little used these days, and you've managed to use it twice in two posts. Well done.

Why does it scare you that lifesavers have opinions? We are people too you know.

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By *orestersCouple over a year ago

The Forest

""I challenge anyone - look at the pictures of the rioters, then look at the pictures of the people clearing up their destroyed lives - tell me if you notice anything in particular."

Enlighten us then....I am sure you have your own delightful thoughts on the matter.....I think I can guess what you are getting at, but lets hear it from you."

Research it yourself, I'm not your teacher.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I challenge anyone - look at the pictures of the rioters, then look at the pictures of the people clearing up their destroyed lives - tell me if you notice anything in particular.

I am a bit thick so please tell me what is the common characteristic of the rioters that you have spotted.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

not read all of tis thread as i am tired lol but can see some heated debat has taken place

i have to say that sadly i am not surprised that there have been riots off the back of a 'peaceful' protest on Saturday, every time there is is a protest in London there seems o be some sort of trouble - pretty soon they will take away peoples right to hold peaceful protests all because of a sad gang of upstarts who want to use any mass gathering to cause upset

all too often they ahve no connection with the actual groups organising the protests

all it does to me is cause apathy for what ever cause the groups are trying to bring to our attention

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I didn't actually use the term "underclass" - I do wish people would read posts properly and not comment on non-existent phraseology.

I didn't say that you did. Wishy used it when agreeing with your comments.

It is kind of a mute point though considering your terminology was even more basic and crass."

Yes, I did use the phrase. And I firmly believe it to be so.

Who these days is of the old working class when working class meant anyone not in the middle or upper classes?

I most certainly do not identify with hoodies on street corners mugging old ladies, or attacking cripples who've just used a cash point.

I also do not identify with people who leave their rubbish out in the street, completely disinterested in separating their refuse into the correct bins provided (a common occurance just two streets from where we live - chavs to a man).

And I most definately do not identify with people who torch businesses, throw rocks at ambulances, fire engines and policecars.

Yet I am working class, ergo, those who I do not identify with and who are not of the middle or upper classes are of a class underneath myself.

Underclass.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Foresters, your posts must be challenged, please clarify some of your points.

When you refer to IQ, are you suggesting that only people with a low IQ protest and cause civil unrest? Or that IQ's are linked to postcodes?

When you wrote 'class of people' in the context of your original post, what did you mean? Economic, social, intelectual?

Are you advocating a 'shoot to kill' policy?

When you use the word 'animals' do you mean dogs, trained pets or are you referring to people causing unrest?

There's a few more points I'd like to clarify but lets just stick with those for now. I ask for this clarification so that there's no ambiguity.

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