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Arguments V Debates
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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We have all done it were we get into a debate with someone on here. ...you know the scenario...you have a different view to someone on a subject...you make a reply...then sit and wait for thier return service.
The question is....when does this overtake the debate...and just become another forum argument? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think when people stop debating with facts or reasonable retorts.
Unfortunately somethings can be taken out of context when reading another's written argument.
But any comments such as 'ridiculous' etc usually means you're being dismissive and it can easily degenerate.
I'm sure we've all done it, as there are some ridiculous comments in here at times! But as a nation I think we're losing the ability to debate in favour of ranting to getting a point across.
Raise your argument not your voice. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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" I think when people stop debating with facts or reasonable retorts.
Unfortunately somethings can be taken out of context when reading another's written argument.
But any comments such as 'ridiculous' etc usually means you're being dismissive and it can easily degenerate.
I'm sure we've all done it, as there are some ridiculous comments in here at times! But as a nation I think we're losing the ability to debate in favour of ranting to getting a point across.
Raise your argument not your voice."
Correct...as I have been guilty of this  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm not sufficiently opinionated to argue with people on the internet .... 
In fact I'm a man of few words... 
Feck off "
Don't unleash ferocious Sox this early in the day...... you know it will end in tears ...and they'll not be mine  |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"when it becomes personal.
when it becomes pointless.
bring any fallacy into a debate and you might as well shut up.
Good points "
i probably do some of this stuff myself at times. i'm quite pedantic and hate being distracted when it comes to debating though so it'll be rare if i do. |
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"We have all done it were we get into a debate with someone on here. ...you know the scenario...you have a different view to someone on a subject...you make a reply...then sit and wait for thier return service.
The question is....when does this overtake the debate...and just become another forum argument?"
It becomes an argument when they've paid their 5 pounds |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I'm not sufficiently opinionated to argue with people on the internet ....
In fact I'm a man of few words...
Feck off
Don't unleash ferocious Sox this early in the day...... you know it will end in tears ...and they'll not be mine "
Oh go on as I'm. ...buggering off now...will make great reading later  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm not sufficiently opinionated to argue with people on the internet ....
In fact I'm a man of few words...
Feck off
Don't unleash ferocious Sox this early in the day...... you know it will end in tears ...and they'll not be mine
Oh go on as I'm. ...buggering off now...will make great reading later "
Take your Brolly ..... |
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"We have all done it were we get into a debate with someone on here. ...you know the scenario...you have a different view to someone on a subject...you make a reply...then sit and wait for thier return service.
The question is....when does this overtake the debate...and just become another forum argument?"
I think a debate is when you're prepared to back up your opinion with an explanation, and when you're also willing to listen to someone else's point of view despite it differing to yours. I find it interesting when people explain why they think a certain way and can respect different standpoints if they're willing to have a discussion about it to help me understand.
It very often breaks down into an argument however when someone refuses to have that discussion, despite being asked politely. Sometimes I see opinions that I'm genuinely baffled (or gobsmacked) by and I'd just like to know how they got to that place, what's influenced their thoughts etc. It's very frustrating when someone's so narrow minded that they'll insist their way is the only way, but won't put their mouth where their money is so to speak ... even more so if they also start flinging personal insults at anyone who disagrees. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I'm not sufficiently opinionated to argue with people on the internet ....
In fact I'm a man of few words...
Feck off
Don't unleash ferocious Sox this early in the day...... you know it will end in tears ...and they'll not be mine
Oh go on as I'm. ...buggering off now...will make great reading later
Take your Brolly ..... "
Naw I'll keep a dry wig in the bag |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think it's when they become personal. Once that happens, no one is debating anymore, they're just slinging insults.
Anything else can still be a debate, in my opinion, albeit a poor one. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm not sufficiently opinionated to argue with people on the internet ....
In fact I'm a man of few words...
Feck off
Don't unleash ferocious Sox this early in the day...... you know it will end in tears ...and they'll not be mine
Oh go on as I'm. ...buggering off now...will make great reading later
Take your Brolly .....
Naw I'll keep a dry wig in the bag "
Why am I not surprised |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think it's when they become personal. Once that happens, no one is debating anymore, they're just slinging insults.
Anything else can still be a debate, in my opinion, albeit a poor one. "
That's an interesting one...good and poor debates. Also sadly we're all human and some characters push our buttons differently to others. As a consequence we put more effort into reasoning with certain people over others? Not best practice but it happens ? |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"I think it's when they become personal. Once that happens, no one is debating anymore, they're just slinging insults.
Anything else can still be a debate, in my opinion, albeit a poor one.
That's an interesting one...good and poor debates. Also sadly we're all human and some characters push our buttons differently to others. As a consequence we put more effort into reasoning with certain people over others? Not best practice but it happens ?"
i put little effort into debating on here, don't see the point in going deep any more. other sites are better and give more HQ debating. |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"I think it's when they become personal. Once that happens, no one is debating anymore, they're just slinging insults.
Anything else can still be a debate, in my opinion, albeit a poor one.
That's an interesting one...good and poor debates. Also sadly we're all human and some characters push our buttons differently to others. As a consequence we put more effort into reasoning with certain people over others? Not best practice but it happens ?
i put little effort into debating on here, don't see the point in going deep any more. other sites are better and give more HQ debating."
additionally you also cannot post links to anything to back up your claims or quote large reams of text on fab. not that you always need to but if there genuinely is a topic of interest then things that like add a lot to a debate. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If you don't really listen or try to understand and just want to 'win' then it isn't a debate."
I think there's a lot guilty of this at times....including myself  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"We have all done it were we get into a debate with someone on here. ...you know the scenario...you have a different view to someone on a subject...you make a reply...then sit and wait for thier return service.
The question is....when does this overtake the debate...and just become another forum argument?
It becomes an argument when they've paid their 5 pounds "
Bloody £5!...it costs me £20  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"When it becomes personal, definitely.
I also think some people don't understand that although you disagree with a point, it is just that - they see all debate as being an argument."
Guilty as charged your honour  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"We have all done it were we get into a debate with someone on here. ...you know the scenario...you have a different view to someone on a subject...you make a reply...then sit and wait for thier return service.
The question is....when does this overtake the debate...and just become another forum argument?
I think a debate is when you're prepared to back up your opinion with an explanation, and when you're also willing to listen to someone else's point of view despite it differing to yours. I find it interesting when people explain why they think a certain way and can respect different standpoints if they're willing to have a discussion about it to help me understand.
It very often breaks down into an argument however when someone refuses to have that discussion, despite being asked politely. Sometimes I see opinions that I'm genuinely baffled (or gobsmacked) by and I'd just like to know how they got to that place, what's influenced their thoughts etc. It's very frustrating when someone's so narrow minded that they'll insist their way is the only way, but won't put their mouth where their money is so to speak ... even more so if they also start flinging personal insults at anyone who disagrees."
Agreed but as a older user...please make allowances as we oldies get stuck in our ways....and you can't beat a good debate in the pub |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I'm not sufficiently opinionated to argue with people on the internet ....
In fact I'm a man of few words...
Feck off
Don't unleash ferocious Sox this early in the day...... you know it will end in tears ...and they'll not be mine
Oh go on as I'm. ...buggering off now...will make great reading later
Take your Brolly .....
Naw I'll keep a dry wig in the bag
Why am I not surprised "
You looking for a debate |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's a debate when both sides are exploring the options and accepting that there are other ways of looking at the issue. It's an argument when one or more of them are convinced they're right |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think it's when they become personal. Once that happens, no one is debating anymore, they're just slinging insults.
Anything else can still be a debate, in my opinion, albeit a poor one. "
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think it's when they become personal. Once that happens, no one is debating anymore, they're just slinging insults.
Anything else can still be a debate, in my opinion, albeit a poor one.
That's an interesting one...good and poor debates. Also sadly we're all human and some characters push our buttons differently to others. As a consequence we put more effort into reasoning with certain people over others? Not best practice but it happens ?"
Definitely this |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think it's when they become personal. Once that happens, no one is debating anymore, they're just slinging insults.
Anything else can still be a debate, in my opinion, albeit a poor one.
That's an interesting one...good and poor debates. Also sadly we're all human and some characters push our buttons differently to others. As a consequence we put more effort into reasoning with certain people over others? Not best practice but it happens ?
i put little effort into debating on here, don't see the point in going deep any more. other sites are better and give more HQ debating.
additionally you also cannot post links to anything to back up your claims or quote large reams of text on fab. not that you always need to but if there genuinely is a topic of interest then things that like add a lot to a debate."
I agree with the links thing....it can be frustrating |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I dont think you meed facts when debating if your talking about your own experience or views.
It becomes an argument when it becomes personal"
Or as said....stop listening (reading) |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It's a debate when both sides are exploring the options and accepting that there are other ways of looking at the issue. It's an argument when one or more of them are convinced they're right "
When one can't back down. ...I've been guilty of that in the past |
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"I dont think you meed facts when debating if your talking about your own experience or views.
It becomes an argument when it becomes personal"
Hahaha
A debate without facts isn't a debate!
It's merely 2 people telling their own fiction
I've never read such an amusing lay silly statement!
Hahaha |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If I'm commenting on something which is likely to cause somebody to take umbrage, something political of somesuch, then I have my say and don't retun to the thread. They have the right to reply so think they've also had the last word, I had my last word and everybody's happy.
I've been in enough flame wars early on in my online life to know they're pointless and always descend into an ever-decreasing circle of semantics and hair-splitting.
Commenting on the Internet is like spitting into the ocean and thinking you're turning the tide. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Let's agree to disagree. ( I love that statement). Sure, I think your a dick, and you don't.
People argue, I just hate it when they won't admit it's turned personal, and that's an argument.
A debate is trying to pursaude or change someone's view I think. And argument is trying to bring someone down. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I dont think you meed facts when debating if your talking about your own experience or views.
It becomes an argument when it becomes personal
Hahaha
A debate without facts isn't a debate!
It's merely 2 people telling their own fiction
I've never read such an amusing lay silly statement!
Hahaha"
Prime example of looking for a debate |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If I'm commenting on something which is likely to cause somebody to take umbrage, something political of somesuch, then I have my say and don't retun to the thread. They have the right to reply so think they've also had the last word, I had my last word and everybody's happy.
I've been in enough flame wars early on in my online life to know they're pointless and always descend into an ever-decreasing circle of semantics and hair-splitting.
Commenting on the Internet is like spitting into the ocean and thinking you're turning the tide."
That's a good view point |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Let's agree to disagree. ( I love that statement). Sure, I think your a dick, and you don't.
People argue, I just hate it when they won't admit it's turned personal, and that's an argument.
A debate is trying to pursaude or change someone's view I think. And argument is trying to bring someone down. "
That's a strange reply... was it aimed at anyone in particular? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Let's agree to disagree. ( I love that statement). Sure, I think your a dick, and you don't.
People argue, I just hate it when they won't admit it's turned personal, and that's an argument.
A debate is trying to pursaude or change someone's view I think. And argument is trying to bring someone down.
That's a strange reply... was it aimed at anyone in particular?"
Ignore my dick comment,( just a throw away comment that's all)
and I tried to explain and answer your opening post. Hope that helps you. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Let's agree to disagree. ( I love that statement). Sure, I think your a dick, and you don't.
People argue, I just hate it when they won't admit it's turned personal, and that's an argument.
A debate is trying to pursaude or change someone's view I think. And argument is trying to bring someone down.
That's a strange reply... was it aimed at anyone in particular?
Ignore my dick comment,( just a throw away comment that's all)
and I tried to explain and answer your opening post. Hope that helps you. "
Yeah it does....just confirms what I thought about you....I'll leave my throw away remarks out though as I can do without the timeout |
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"I dont think you meed facts when debating if your talking about your own experience or views.
It becomes an argument when it becomes personal
Hahaha
A debate without facts isn't a debate!
It's merely 2 people telling their own fiction
I've never read such an amusing lay silly statement!
Hahaha
Prime example of looking for a debate"
Haha
I just thought it weird someone would want to engage someone else that has zero facts or truth to any of their statements?
What's the point? Hahaha |
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"
Haha
I just thought it weird someone would want to engage someone else that has zero facts or truth to any of their statements?
What's the point? Hahaha
Have you never watched Question Time ? "
Yes I have indeed.
Those politicians never answer the question asked !  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I dont think you meed facts when debating if your talking about your own experience or views.
It becomes an argument when it becomes personal
Hahaha
A debate without facts isn't a debate!
It's merely 2 people telling their own fiction
I've never read such an amusing lay silly statement!
Hahaha
Prime example of looking for a debate
Haha
I just thought it weird someone would want to engage someone else that has zero facts or truth to any of their statements?
What's the point? Hahaha"
Because it's a forum...where I asked a question and they post a reply...so I think it's only right to acknowledge that reply....now what you think of my replies is another thing |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Let's agree to disagree. ( I love that statement). Sure, I think your a dick, and you don't.
People argue, I just hate it when they won't admit it's turned personal, and that's an argument.
A debate is trying to pursaude or change someone's view I think. And argument is trying to bring someone down.
That's a strange reply... was it aimed at anyone in particular?
Ignore my dick comment,( just a throw away comment that's all)
and I tried to explain and answer your opening post. Hope that helps you.
Yeah it does....just confirms what I thought about you....I'll leave my throw away remarks out though as I can do without the timeout"
Eh? Thanks? 
I thought that was harsh |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I dont think you meed facts when debating if your talking about your own experience or views.
It becomes an argument when it becomes personal"
So hang on you can debate based purely on personal experience and views.
But if it's personal it's an argument?
That seems a little contradictory.
If your debate is purely personal then by your second sentence it's an argument. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Simplest summary I find is.
It's a debate if your "point scoring" while both maintaining your position.
It's an argument if you want the other person to change thier mind. |
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"I dont think you meed facts when debating if your talking about your own experience or views.
It becomes an argument when it becomes personal
So hang on you can debate based purely on personal experience and views.
But if it's personal it's an argument?
That seems a little contradictory.
If your debate is purely personal then by your second sentence it's an argument. "
They mean bringing personal things into it against the other person. Not personal experience. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I dont think you meed facts when debating if your talking about your own experience or views.
It becomes an argument when it becomes personal
So hang on you can debate based purely on personal experience and views.
But if it's personal it's an argument?
That seems a little contradictory.
If your debate is purely personal then by your second sentence it's an argument.
They mean bringing personal things into it against the other person. Not personal experience."
But if you're "debating" based purely on personal experience from both sides then any rebuttle will be personal
As any attack on thier "evidence" is an attack on thier personal experience/view.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I dont think you meed facts when debating if your talking about your own experience or views.
It becomes an argument when it becomes personal
So hang on you can debate based purely on personal experience and views.
But if it's personal it's an argument?
That seems a little contradictory.
If your debate is purely personal then by your second sentence it's an argument.
They mean bringing personal things into it against the other person. Not personal experience."
Yep I think you'll find a prime example of that on this thread |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Sometimes it is impossible to get your point across as you are right in debates, one example is to argue with a brexiter, it is like a brick wall, sometimes you have to agree to disagree, or it would go on forever lol. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Sometimes it is impossible to get your point across as you are right in debates, one example is to argue with a brexiter, it is like a brick wall, sometimes you have to agree to disagree, or it would go on forever lol."
Shag get back to the politics forums |
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"I dont think you meed facts when debating if your talking about your own experience or views.
It becomes an argument when it becomes personal
So hang on you can debate based purely on personal experience and views.
But if it's personal it's an argument?
That seems a little contradictory.
If your debate is purely personal then by your second sentence it's an argument.
They mean bringing personal things into it against the other person. Not personal experience.
But if you're "debating" based purely on personal experience from both sides then any rebuttle will be personal
As any attack on thier "evidence" is an attack on thier personal experience/view.
"
That's not what they meant by 'personal'. They are talking about bringing in semi-relevant / irrelevant personal comments about the other person. |
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"Sometimes it is impossible to get your point across as you are right in debates, one example is to argue with a brexiter, it is like a brick wall, sometimes you have to agree to disagree, or it would go on forever lol."
Maybe setting off on any discussion about any subject 'knowing' that you are right, isn't necessarily the way to have discussions about anything. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sometimes it is impossible to get your point across as you are right in debates, one example is to argue with a brexiter, it is like a brick wall, sometimes you have to agree to disagree, or it would go on forever lol.
Shag get back to the politics forums "
Yes, lets see whats going on there lol. |
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"Sometimes it is impossible to get your point across as you are right in debates, one example is to argue with a brexiter, it is like a brick wall, sometimes you have to agree to disagree, or it would go on forever lol."
It goes both ways sir.
The greediness of people want to remain was shocking. They were only thinking about themselves and their wallet.. . Sod everyone else.
Keep politics to the politics section Mon brav . . It's safer that way.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sometimes it is impossible to get your point across as you are right in debates, one example is to argue with a brexiter, it is like a brick wall, sometimes you have to agree to disagree, or it would go on forever lol.
Maybe setting off on any discussion about any subject 'knowing' that you are right, isn't necessarily the way to have discussions about anything."
That is right too and it depends what the subject is about too, if it is a statement or a question. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
Shag get back to the politics forums Yes, lets see whats going on there lol.
I doubt it is an interesting debate with people exchanging views and learning from each others experiences.... "
PMSL |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A debate is when your friendship with the other person is important enough that you're willing to overlook differences and keep things light. An argument is when the point you're making is more important to you than any potential friendship with the other person and you're willing to run rough shod over that to "win"
There are subjects it's impossible to debate online with strangers, as people's views on them are so distinct and inflexible and they feel no compulsion to compromise on them with people they've never met. All such online "debates" are really just arguments |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Op. You got me thinking, did you take my comment above personally, because to clear it up. It wasn't.
Obviously my comment looks like it was taken like it was directed at you.
As I said, it was a quickly typed throw away comment trying to show an example of things people say during discussions. I never called anyone a dick, I wasn't replying to anyone in the thread.
But, in restrospect, doesn't it show how things can be misinterpreted during a debate.
I'm sorry that you took it the wrong way. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"A debate is when your friendship with the other person is important enough that you're willing to overlook differences and keep things light. An argument is when the point you're making is more important to you than any potential friendship with the other person and you're willing to run rough shod over that to "win"
There are subjects it's impossible to debate online with strangers, as people's views on them are so distinct and inflexible and they feel no compulsion to compromise on them with people they've never met. All such online "debates" are really just arguments "
Kinda get what you mean...but for some it's the only way to debate a topical issue |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Op. You got me thinking, did you take my comment above personally, because to clear it up. It wasn't.
Obviously my comment looks like it was taken like it was directed at you.
As I said, it was a quickly typed throw away comment trying to show an example of things people say during discussions. I never called anyone a dick, I wasn't replying to anyone in the thread.
But, in restrospect, doesn't it show how things can be misinterpreted during a debate.
I'm sorry that you took it the wrong way. "
Your reply to my question to your first post certainly indicated the it was...but if I'm wrong ok. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A debate is when your friendship with the other person is important enough that you're willing to overlook differences and keep things light. An argument is when the point you're making is more important to you than any potential friendship with the other person and you're willing to run rough shod over that to "win"
There are subjects it's impossible to debate online with strangers, as people's views on them are so distinct and inflexible and they feel no compulsion to compromise on them with people they've never met. All such online "debates" are really just arguments
Kinda get what you mean...but for some it's the only way to debate a topical issue "
I refer you back to one of the best quotes on this thread "Commenting on the Internet is like spitting into the ocean and thinking you're turning the tide". I tend to use the Internet as a barometer now, in the same way I now take note of what the daily mail and express are printing since brexit. It's important to know what others think on issues... not necessarily because they're right (they're wrong )... but because they are part of the cultural fabric and might end up impacting on you.
I like weighing in on philosophical issues when I've found flaws in the main arguments for them, as I hope doing so will stir flush out arguments I haven't come across. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"A debate is when your friendship with the other person is important enough that you're willing to overlook differences and keep things light. An argument is when the point you're making is more important to you than any potential friendship with the other person and you're willing to run rough shod over that to "win"
There are subjects it's impossible to debate online with strangers, as people's views on them are so distinct and inflexible and they feel no compulsion to compromise on them with people they've never met. All such online "debates" are really just arguments
Kinda get what you mean...but for some it's the only way to debate a topical issue
I refer you back to one of the best quotes on this thread "Commenting on the Internet is like spitting into the ocean and thinking you're turning the tide". I tend to use the Internet as a barometer now, in the same way I now take note of what the daily mail and express are printing since brexit. It's important to know what others think on issues... not necessarily because they're right (they're wrong )... but because they are part of the cultural fabric and might end up impacting on you.
I like weighing in on philosophical issues when I've found flaws in the main arguments for them, as I hope doing so will stir flush out arguments I haven't come across. "
Do you frequent the politics forum by any chance |
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"when it becomes personal.
when it becomes pointless.
bring any fallacy into a debate and you might as well shut up."
Yep. Reason why PMQ is a bit of a circus.
There's mutual respect in a debate and none in an argument. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"when it becomes personal.
when it becomes pointless.
bring any fallacy into a debate and you might as well shut up.
Yep. Reason why PMQ is a bit of a circus.
There's mutual respect in a debate and none in an argument."
Bugger PMQ....the best ones on bbc1 tonight |
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"when it becomes personal.
when it becomes pointless.
bring any fallacy into a debate and you might as well shut up.
Yep. Reason why PMQ is a bit of a circus.
There's mutual respect in a debate and none in an argument.
Bugger PMQ....the best ones on bbc1 tonight "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Good arguments or debates should rarely have an outcome or a completion but agreements about the details are reached hopefully
If only if only"
Call me old fashioned but I like to believe that some arguments, even trenchant philosophical ones, are eventually resolved one way or another. This may end up taking the form "we don't know and we'll never know" but at least we know that |
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