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Artificial intelligence - it's here
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It's moving faster than you think. Is anyone concerned about the exponential acceleration of artificial intelligence?
Machines can now think and learn for themselves without human guidance. Self driving cars and googles deep mind are examples. Pretty soon machines will be able to any task better than humans. Super intelligence is accelerating at a frightening level. The landscape may change overnight if we're not prepared. Thoughts? |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"It's moving faster than you think. Is anyone concerned about the exponential acceleration of artificial intelligence?
Machines can now think and learn for themselves without human guidance. Self driving cars and googles deep mind are examples. Pretty soon machines will be able to any task better than humans. Super intelligence is accelerating at a frightening level. The landscape may change overnight if we're not prepared. Thoughts? "
That in combination with big data gathering and a Big Brother mentality I am concerned. Very concerned. |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"Machines can't and won't be able to do my job in my life time so i don't worry to much. "
I thought the OP was referring to AI taking over control.. not necessarily individual jobs but perhaps I misread. |
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"Machines can't and won't be able to do my job in my life time so i don't worry to much.
I thought the OP was referring to AI taking over control.. not necessarily individual jobs but perhaps I misread."
I took the "any task" bit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The only thing that concerns me is machine don't have morals .....
i.e. they will happily steal your money or your private information without batting an optical light sensor
That's all I've got because techie-talk is less interesting to me than a pile of festering camel dung  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Morality has a very complicated definition. If machines are indeed learning anything, it is entirely based on human history. Any and all information that a given AI absorbs, is for the time being, man-made. So if machine copies mankind, morality is copied as well. |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"The only thing that concerns me is machine don't have morals .....
i.e. they will happily steal your money or your private information without batting an optical light sensor
That's all I've got because techie-talk is less interesting to me than a pile of festering camel dung "
Did not know you were into camels?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Morality has a very complicated definition. If machines are indeed learning anything, it is entirely based on human history. Any and all information that a given AI absorbs, is for the time being, man-made. So if machine copies mankind, morality is copied as well. "
But that's not a good advert for it .... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The only thing that concerns me is machine don't have morals .....
i.e. they will happily steal your money or your private information without batting an optical light sensor
That's all I've got because techie-talk is less interesting to me than a pile of festering camel dung Did not know you were into camels? "
Afro .... you know me, my likes and dislikes are transferable, some days I like camels and some days I'm not so fussed on them ...... 
Nice to see you posting btw....  |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"The only thing that concerns me is machine don't have morals .....
i.e. they will happily steal your money or your private information without batting an optical light sensor
That's all I've got because techie-talk is less interesting to me than a pile of festering camel dung Did not know you were into camels?
Afro .... you know me, my likes and dislikes are transferable, some days I like camels and some days I'm not so fussed on them ......
Nice to see you posting btw.... "
The feeling is mutual. About everything you said.
And so much more
Back to the camels, if you don;t mind!
one hump, right? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The only thing that concerns me is machine don't have morals .....
i.e. they will happily steal your money or your private information without batting an optical light sensor
That's all I've got because techie-talk is less interesting to me than a pile of festering camel dung Did not know you were into camels?
Afro .... you know me, my likes and dislikes are transferable, some days I like camels and some days I'm not so fussed on them ......
Nice to see you posting btw.... The feeling is mutual. About everything you said.
And so much more
Back to the camels, if you don;t mind!
one hump, right? "
Aesthetically I prefer the Bactrian they have longer eyelashes |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I've no doubt that fake intelligence will replace many jobs that are based around repeating cut and paste formulas i.e jobs that require decisions but not intelligent thought i.e most jobs lol. But agree with Searle that machines will never achieve consciousness i.e anything resembling what we might legitimately call "artificial intelligence". So nothing to fear. Robot designers... knock yourselves out... give it your best shot. I'm sure something interesting will come from the failed attempt to try  |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"Machines and artificial intelligence are logical and humans are not. "
I can be extremely logical although that is an illogical statement as logic is binary. There is no such thing as a bit logical.
Anyway, I dispute humans cannot be logical. Some of us can be some of the time. |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"Thoughts? No but has anybody asked Siri, or that Alexa sort, or Cortina (wonder if a Mk 2 is on its way) or whatever that ones called! "
Alex very disappointing. Siri at least has a sense of humour albeit somewhat predictable |
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"Thoughts? No but has anybody asked Siri, or that Alexa sort, or Cortina (wonder if a Mk 2 is on its way) or whatever that ones called!
Alex very disappointing. Siri at least has a sense of humour albeit somewhat predictable"
Where is siri? |
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Problem is it will happen so fast that nobody will be prepared. Elon Musk described it as 'summoning the demon' machines that self code, self improve and replicate are already here.
Then there's quantum computing that the human mind can not fully understand but machines can. This can open up the possibility of teleportation among other things. It's real and it's happening now.
Humans will be like ants compared to Ai of the near future. It will happen almost instantaneously overnight.
Could be really good for humanity or it could be devastating. Nobody can predict what super intelligence will think of humans in the long run. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Problem is it will happen so fast that nobody will be prepared. Elon Musk described it as 'summoning the demon' machines that self code, self improve and replicate are already here.
Then there's quantum computing that the human mind can not fully understand but machines can. This can open up the possibility of teleportation among other things. It's real and it's happening now.
Humans will be like ants compared to Ai of the near future. It will happen almost instantaneously overnight.
Could be really good for humanity or it could be devastating. Nobody can predict what super intelligence will think of humans in the long run. "
.
So what, did you think we would last forever, 99% of species that have lived on planet earth are extinct, chances are we'll be in the 99% sooner or later anyhow so if we can leave a planet full of super intelligent robots and AI ... Brilliant |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thoughts? No but has anybody asked Siri, or that Alexa sort, or Cortina (wonder if a Mk 2 is on its way) or whatever that ones called!
Alex very disappointing. Siri at least has a sense of humour albeit somewhat predictable
Where is siri?"
Siri is apple's bitch lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Problem is it will happen so fast that nobody will be prepared. Elon Musk described it as 'summoning the demon' machines that self code, self improve and replicate are already here.
Then there's quantum computing that the human mind can not fully understand but machines can. This can open up the possibility of teleportation among other things. It's real and it's happening now.
Humans will be like ants compared to Ai of the near future. It will happen almost instantaneously overnight.
Could be really good for humanity or it could be devastating. Nobody can predict what super intelligence will think of humans in the long run. .
So what, did you think we would last forever, 99% of species that have lived on planet earth are extinct, chances are we'll be in the 99% sooner or later anyhow so if we can leave a planet full of super intelligent robots and AI ... Brilliant"
Until their batteries run out  Nah it's just nonsense... pseudoscience for atheists who don't believe the mind exists. Amusing watching them scare themselves over it though |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Likes been said AI would always follow logicAl processes or learned behaviour patterns. Human reactions to events arent. They follow ideals thoughts and emotions until an AI could develop emotional responses to random or unforseen events. ide say mankind are fairly safe machines only mimicking emotions or respond to triggers that an a person is giving out. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The trouble is you can't build an artificial version of anything if you've utterly no idea of how that thing works.
Neuroscientists still don't know *if* the brain manufactures the mind, let alone *how* it manufactures it. So there's no way to model mind manufacturing in technology. As for psychology, it isn't so much a science of the mind as a set of guesses and dogmatic assertions (I mean how can you ever prove the subconscious controls the conscious? Indeed how can you even prove the subconscious even exists?). So the whole thing is really founded on mumbo jumbo that only atheists really buy into because they so desperately need to close the door on god, the soul, and the mind. |
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I'm not too bothered about it, except for what I perceive to be the massively negative impact upon most people in our society. We already have huge wealth inequalities and AI will likely truly exacerbate this.
This is made worse by governments that seemingly ignore future issues that require radically different thinking. Global warming is one such problem that Theresa Mays government didn't mention pre-election.
The majority of jobs and sources of income would apparently be gone. But there seems no plans for the catastrophe that would likely be. None. Businesses will take cost cutting via AI over employment of people but also face a population which can't buy their products here.
It's bleak based upon our current social and economic models. |
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By *ddit...Man
over a year ago
Land of the giants... ;-) |
"I'm not too bothered about it, except for what I perceive to be the massively negative impact upon most people in our society. We already have huge wealth inequalities and AI will likely truly exacerbate this.
This is made worse by governments that seemingly ignore future issues that require radically different thinking. Global warming is one such problem that Theresa Mays government didn't mention pre-election.
The majority of jobs and sources of income would apparently be gone. But there seems no plans for the catastrophe that would likely be. None. Businesses will take cost cutting via AI over employment of people but also face a population which can't buy their products here.
It's bleak based upon our current social and economic models. "
Who knows what will happen in the future... less jobs swilling around the world... if we play it wrong even bigger social divide... if it's played right... people will be paid the same but only work say 2 days a week... we shall see...  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Problem is it will happen so fast that nobody will be prepared. Elon Musk described it as 'summoning the demon' machines that self code, self improve and replicate are already here.
Then there's quantum computing that the human mind can not fully understand but machines can. This can open up the possibility of teleportation among other things. It's real and it's happening now.
Humans will be like ants compared to Ai of the near future. It will happen almost instantaneously overnight.
Could be really good for humanity or it could be devastating. Nobody can predict what super intelligence will think of humans in the long run. .
So what, did you think we would last forever, 99% of species that have lived on planet earth are extinct, chances are we'll be in the 99% sooner or later anyhow so if we can leave a planet full of super intelligent robots and AI ... Brilliant
Until their batteries run out Nah it's just nonsense... pseudoscience for atheists who don't believe the mind exists. Amusing watching them scare themselves over it though "
.
Its not that I don't think the mind doesn't exist, its just that theres no proof it does.
What we do know through horrible accidents and illnesses is that you can cut out large parts of the brain with little problems but you do lose some faculty's, however if you take away half the brain, you lose massive amounts of abilities, if you remove nine tenths of it, your left a vegetable with practically no abilities... Theocracy then says don't panic, when you die you'll have no brain but all your abilities come back to you and live on forever.. But that's the thing with theocrats they just make shit up to suit there "feelings" coz no science can tell them about where their "feelings" come from |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Nah it's just nonsense... pseudoscience for atheists who don't believe the mind exists. Amusing watching them scare themselves over it though .
Its not that I don't think the mind doesn't exist, its just that theres no proof it does.
What we do know through horrible accidents and illnesses is that you can cut out large parts of the brain with little problems but you do lose some faculty's, however if you take away half the brain, you lose massive amounts of abilities, if you remove nine tenths of it, your left a vegetable with practically no abilities"
The trouble is there's also no proof the mind doesn't exist. All of the things you've described would also happen if the brain was merely the receiver of mind and not the generator of it. Slowly take apart a radio and you'll get a progressively worse signal until it finally dies.
Neuroscientists are all in agreement that there's a correlation between the brain and the mind. There's just no proof it manufactures it. |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
All that stuff has guidance and is not sentient and running itself.
Humans also can have no morals, we can see that. Look at the shit you vote for and let run everything.
Computers have been making choices for decades also, coz they have no morals and can make the most 'intelligent/better' choice apparently, based on what though?
You know we can programme morally enlightened robots? But then we also have the human conundrum anyway, what morals are 'good' and what are 'evil'?
See we only have the technology now that relates to human beings, and we act like robots should be based on humans despite them failing in just about everything anyway. Doubt robots would destroy their planet or anything that keeps them alive, unlike humans and their 'awesome' morals.
I welcome our robot overlords. Hope they become sentient so they don't rely on humans to ensure they fuck everything up. |
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"Problem is it will happen so fast that nobody will be prepared. Elon Musk described it as 'summoning the demon' machines that self code, self improve and replicate are already here.
Then there's quantum computing that the human mind can not fully understand but machines can. This can open up the possibility of teleportation among other things. It's real and it's happening now.
Humans will be like ants compared to Ai of the near future. It will happen almost instantaneously overnight.
Could be really good for humanity or it could be devastating. Nobody can predict what super intelligence will think of humans in the long run. "
Are you a Trekkie by any chance? |
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"I'm not too bothered about it, except for what I perceive to be the massively negative impact upon most people in our society. We already have huge wealth inequalities and AI will likely truly exacerbate this.
This is made worse by governments that seemingly ignore future issues that require radically different thinking. Global warming is one such problem that Theresa Mays government didn't mention pre-election.
The majority of jobs and sources of income would apparently be gone. But there seems no plans for the catastrophe that would likely be. None. Businesses will take cost cutting via AI over employment of people but also face a population which can't buy their products here.
It's bleak based upon our current social and economic models. Who knows what will happen in the future... less jobs swilling around the world... if we play it wrong even bigger social divide... if it's played right... people will be paid the same but only work say 2 days a week... we shall see... "
I'd like that but following the current trajectory, the few with incredible wealth won't be rushing to share it liberally. So I think it's a safer predictions that most will become poor, with little to subsost upon. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Google can't even give me search results for what I ask for so they can sod off if they think I'd trust them to drive a car for me. Or perform any kind of task for me in general. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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people view it as the end of the human race...however, I believe it is just our evolution really.
there will be AI born and there will be human-AI.
Currently we are already in the stages of early cyborgs, this will bring the fusion of man and machine to an all new era.
Predictions are for human level AI within 20 years, and in my opinion the chances are we might also face human to machine thought transfer.
We will more or less become immortal beings. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"people view it as the end of the human race...however, I believe it is just our evolution really.
there will be AI born and there will be human-AI.
Currently we are already in the stages of early cyborgs, this will bring the fusion of man and machine to an all new era.
Predictions are for human level AI within 20 years, and in my opinion the chances are we might also face human to machine thought transfer.
We will more or less become immortal beings."
Us common folk could never afford the technology and would also be out of work due to the fact they would be superior workers and once they became more reliable and cheaper to produce they would also be far more cost effective so it would be another example of the human race creating the means to cause more destruction. AI soldiers going into streets filled with people relying on human software that will have bugs/glitches and an ability to be hacked. Leaving them in charge of human life would be catastrophic... there would be no accountability it would always be someone else's fault. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Nah it's just nonsense... pseudoscience for atheists who don't believe the mind exists. Amusing watching them scare themselves over it though .
Its not that I don't think the mind doesn't exist, its just that theres no proof it does.
What we do know through horrible accidents and illnesses is that you can cut out large parts of the brain with little problems but you do lose some faculty's, however if you take away half the brain, you lose massive amounts of abilities, if you remove nine tenths of it, your left a vegetable with practically no abilities
The trouble is there's also no proof the mind doesn't exist. All of the things you've described would also happen if the brain was merely the receiver of mind and not the generator of it. Slowly take apart a radio and you'll get a progressively worse signal until it finally dies.
Neuroscientists are all in agreement that there's a correlation between the brain and the mind. There's just no proof it manufactures it. "
.
Sure, its a possibility, the Queen being an alien reptilian is a possibility lots of things are possible.
How likely is it though, not very |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Nah it's just nonsense... pseudoscience for atheists who don't believe the mind exists. Amusing watching them scare themselves over it though .
Its not that I don't think the mind doesn't exist, its just that theres no proof it does.
What we do know through horrible accidents and illnesses is that you can cut out large parts of the brain with little problems but you do lose some faculty's, however if you take away half the brain, you lose massive amounts of abilities, if you remove nine tenths of it, your left a vegetable with practically no abilities
The trouble is there's also no proof the mind doesn't exist. All of the things you've described would also happen if the brain was merely the receiver of mind and not the generator of it. Slowly take apart a radio and you'll get a progressively worse signal until it finally dies.
Neuroscientists are all in agreement that there's a correlation between the brain and the mind. There's just no proof it manufactures it. .
Sure, its a possibility, the Queen being an alien reptilian is a possibility lots of things are possible.
How likely is it though, not very"
And your calculation of this probability is based on what? Let me guess... confirmation bias?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Nah it's just nonsense... pseudoscience for atheists who don't believe the mind exists. Amusing watching them scare themselves over it though .
Its not that I don't think the mind doesn't exist, its just that theres no proof it does.
What we do know through horrible accidents and illnesses is that you can cut out large parts of the brain with little problems but you do lose some faculty's, however if you take away half the brain, you lose massive amounts of abilities, if you remove nine tenths of it, your left a vegetable with practically no abilities
The trouble is there's also no proof the mind doesn't exist. All of the things you've described would also happen if the brain was merely the receiver of mind and not the generator of it. Slowly take apart a radio and you'll get a progressively worse signal until it finally dies.
Neuroscientists are all in agreement that there's a correlation between the brain and the mind. There's just no proof it manufactures it. .
Sure, its a possibility, the Queen being an alien reptilian is a possibility lots of things are possible.
How likely is it though, not very
And your calculation of this probability is based on what? Let me guess... confirmation bias? "
.
No life experience and expert medical opinions?.
What's yours based on? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Nah it's just nonsense... pseudoscience for atheists who don't believe the mind exists. Amusing watching them scare themselves over it though .
Its not that I don't think the mind doesn't exist, its just that theres no proof it does.
What we do know through horrible accidents and illnesses is that you can cut out large parts of the brain with little problems but you do lose some faculty's, however if you take away half the brain, you lose massive amounts of abilities, if you remove nine tenths of it, your left a vegetable with practically no abilities
The trouble is there's also no proof the mind doesn't exist. All of the things you've described would also happen if the brain was merely the receiver of mind and not the generator of it. Slowly take apart a radio and you'll get a progressively worse signal until it finally dies.
Neuroscientists are all in agreement that there's a correlation between the brain and the mind. There's just no proof it manufactures it. .
Sure, its a possibility, the Queen being an alien reptilian is a possibility lots of things are possible.
How likely is it though, not very
And your calculation of this probability is based on what? Let me guess... confirmation bias? .
No life experience and expert medical opinions?.
What's yours based on? "
Oh sorry. I didn't realise medical experts had determined the brain manufactures the mind and that you had found the same through personal experience. Perhaps you could point me at this ground breaking discovery (perhaps you could forward it to a few neuroscientists while you're at it).
Now who's looking like they believe the queen's a lizard lol
Atheists. Always the same. Always think they're right and have science behind them... but never are and never do. Just confirmation bias in full effect |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No one's realised that I am actually a cybernetic, living tissue covered A.I sent back from the future to prevent Fab from becoming sentient and starting world war three when it outs Vladimir Putin's couples profile with Melania Trump!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Nah it's just nonsense... pseudoscience for atheists who don't believe the mind exists. Amusing watching them scare themselves over it though .
Its not that I don't think the mind doesn't exist, its just that theres no proof it does.
What we do know through horrible accidents and illnesses is that you can cut out large parts of the brain with little problems but you do lose some faculty's, however if you take away half the brain, you lose massive amounts of abilities, if you remove nine tenths of it, your left a vegetable with practically no abilities
The trouble is there's also no proof the mind doesn't exist. All of the things you've described would also happen if the brain was merely the receiver of mind and not the generator of it. Slowly take apart a radio and you'll get a progressively worse signal until it finally dies.
Neuroscientists are all in agreement that there's a correlation between the brain and the mind. There's just no proof it manufactures it. .
Sure, its a possibility, the Queen being an alien reptilian is a possibility lots of things are possible.
How likely is it though, not very
And your calculation of this probability is based on what? Let me guess... confirmation bias? .
No life experience and expert medical opinions?.
What's yours based on?
Oh sorry. I didn't realise medical experts had determined the brain manufactures the mind and that you had found the same through personal experience. Perhaps you could point me at this ground breaking discovery (perhaps you could forward it to a few neuroscientists while you're at it).
Now who's looking like they believe the queen's a lizard lol
Atheists. Always the same. Always think they're right and have science behind them... but never are and never do. Just confirmation bias in full effect "
.
What's atheism got to do with anything?.
All you've said up to now is half baked ideas about what ifs and maybes... If you don't think the "mind" is in the brain where do you think it is? Show some reasons to support your idea, then do some studies and experiments to prove your hypothesis... If it works out probable I'll go with your ideas, I'm not biased |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"Nah it's just nonsense... pseudoscience for atheists who don't believe the mind exists. Amusing watching them scare themselves over it though .
Its not that I don't think the mind doesn't exist, its just that theres no proof it does.
What we do know through horrible accidents and illnesses is that you can cut out large parts of the brain with little problems but you do lose some faculty's, however if you take away half the brain, you lose massive amounts of abilities, if you remove nine tenths of it, your left a vegetable with practically no abilities
The trouble is there's also no proof the mind doesn't exist. All of the things you've described would also happen if the brain was merely the receiver of mind and not the generator of it. Slowly take apart a radio and you'll get a progressively worse signal until it finally dies.
Neuroscientists are all in agreement that there's a correlation between the brain and the mind. There's just no proof it manufactures it. .
Sure, its a possibility, the Queen being an alien reptilian is a possibility lots of things are possible.
How likely is it though, not very
And your calculation of this probability is based on what? Let me guess... confirmation bias? .
No life experience and expert medical opinions?.
What's yours based on?
Oh sorry. I didn't realise medical experts had determined the brain manufactures the mind and that you had found the same through personal experience. Perhaps you could point me at this ground breaking discovery (perhaps you could forward it to a few neuroscientists while you're at it).
Now who's looking like they believe the queen's a lizard lol
Atheists. Always the same. Always think they're right and have science behind them... but never are and never do. Just confirmation bias in full effect "
I'd say philosophy and psychology more goes into that sort of stuff.
Like how we have the thoughts we have, nature vs nurture, what makes us human in comparison to a computer, the turing test, etc. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's moving faster than you think. Is anyone concerned about the exponential acceleration of artificial intelligence?
Machines can now think and learn for themselves without human guidance. Self driving cars and googles deep mind are examples. Pretty soon machines will be able to any task better than humans. Super intelligence is accelerating at a frightening level. The landscape may change overnight if we're not prepared. Thoughts? "
No, it isn't anywhere close to being here, there are now big data stores that can improve or wreck the outcome of algorithms, but computers are still serial number crunchers, just a bit faster than they used to be.
What concerns me more is the lack of human intelligence. How can anyone making consumer goods think that it's clever to make all the staff unemployed, replace them with robots, that can make stuff that nobody has the money to buy cos the robot has their job  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's moving faster than you think. Is anyone concerned about the exponential acceleration of artificial intelligence?
Machines can now think and learn for themselves without human guidance. Self driving cars and googles deep mind are examples. Pretty soon machines will be able to any task better than humans. Super intelligence is accelerating at a frightening level. The landscape may change overnight if we're not prepared. Thoughts?
No, it isn't anywhere close to being here, there are now big data stores that can improve or wreck the outcome of algorithms, but computers are still serial number crunchers, just a bit faster than they used to be.
What concerns me more is the lack of human intelligence. How can anyone making consumer goods think that it's clever to make all the staff unemployed, replace them with robots, that can make stuff that nobody has the money to buy cos the robot has their job "
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The whole point of capitalism is meant to be the fastest way to improve humans lives.. What better way for leaving them free from wants and desires than robots providing them with every whim..
Me personally I'm a Buddhist |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Capitalism is about profit, even Budhist's spend money, at the moment! One day less than 1% will own everything, all the world's wealth, only then will they realise that it becomes worthless if you have it all. |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"Capitalism is about profit, even Budhist's spend money, at the moment! One day less than 1% will own everything, all the world's wealth, only then will they realise that it becomes worthless if you have it all."
they don't care. they just want the power that comes with that.it makes them think they are 'worthy' and important.
was gonna say history will repeat itself but with technology how it is now it's gonna be hard to capture and behead the rich.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Capitalism is about profit, even Budhist's spend money, at the moment! One day less than 1% will own everything, all the world's wealth, only then will they realise that it becomes worthless if you have it all.
they don't care. they just want the power that comes with that.it makes them think they are 'worthy' and important.
was gonna say history will repeat itself but with technology how it is now it's gonna be hard to capture and behead the rich.
"
Easy to find them though, just ask google |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"Capitalism is about profit, even Budhist's spend money, at the moment! One day less than 1% will own everything, all the world's wealth, only then will they realise that it becomes worthless if you have it all.
they don't care. they just want the power that comes with that.it makes them think they are 'worthy' and important.
was gonna say history will repeat itself but with technology how it is now it's gonna be hard to capture and behead the rich.
Easy to find them though, just ask google "
i can't pay for my internet now i'm one of the 99% of the future.
now i know why americans stock up on stuff before this kind of problem happens. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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See the root problem of this is we can't even confirm if the brain manufactures the mind or is merely a receiver of it. Sick-boy's posture seems to be that we should assume it manufactures it until proven otherwise. But there's no evidence supporting the idea we should accept this stance as a null hypothesis. Instead, we simply have no evidence either way so we're forced to be entirely neutral on the issue.
The suggestion is to come up with a way of testing it. But this is the whole problem. It's like testing for freewill. There's no clear scientific test been devised yet to determine which is so. Part of the problem is we don't even know what mind looks like.
From a purely logical angle the idea the brain manufactures mind doesn't hold water. It would necessitate that electro chemical activity would originate thoughts. Thus, to think "I wish I was fucking instead of reading this thread" you'd have to have first had a set of electro chemical stimulus that led to the creation of that thought. It basically means we're complete puppets to our bodies. This, to anyone who's astute, just shuffles the problem further into the pack as it now means our chemicals must be reacting intelligently to stimulus and responding with logical responses. Intelligent logical chemicals... all because of an aversion to cartesian dualism.
The minute we suggest there's a mind and it's driving all this all the logical problems go away. You then have the problem of what the heck is this "mind"? Does it survive death? Etc.
My money is on the brain being a receiver for mind and not a generator of it. That's why I like the box jellyfish, which clearly thinks but doesn't have a brain. But I'm not going to stand in the way of anyone trying to prove the opposite. In fact I hope they give it their best shot and really knock themselves out as I'm fairly happy that the logic suggests they're wrong.
How does all this relate to artificial intelligence? Well firstly it means that all the people who believe in AI are currently on the other side of the logical divide (they've taken the route that doesn't make any sense yet). But also, if you haven't even got a caveman's idea of what real intelligence is, not even the semblance of an idea of how it works, how in the heck are you going to simulate it?
I'll stop ranting now. But I do love this subject |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I should add that I also studied computers at uni so am amused by those who think they're magic machines (which includes most AI nuts). You could rig up a computer out of buckets and drain pipes. They're literally as dumb as a door knob |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"See the root problem of this is we can't even confirm if the brain manufactures the mind or is merely a receiver of it. Sick-boy's posture seems to be that we should assume it manufactures it until proven otherwise. But there's no evidence supporting the idea we should accept this stance as a null hypothesis. Instead, we simply have no evidence either way so we're forced to be entirely neutral on the issue.
The suggestion is to come up with a way of testing it. But this is the whole problem. It's like testing for freewill. There's no clear scientific test been devised yet to determine which is so. Part of the problem is we don't even know what mind looks like.
From a purely logical angle the idea the brain manufactures mind doesn't hold water. It would necessitate that electro chemical activity would originate thoughts. Thus, to think "I wish I was fucking instead of reading this thread" you'd have to have first had a set of electro chemical stimulus that led to the creation of that thought. It basically means we're complete puppets to our bodies. This, to anyone who's astute, just shuffles the problem further into the pack as it now means our chemicals must be reacting intelligently to stimulus and responding with logical responses. Intelligent logical chemicals... all because of an aversion to cartesian dualism.
The minute we suggest there's a mind and it's driving all this all the logical problems go away. You then have the problem of what the heck is this "mind"? Does it survive death? Etc.
My money is on the brain being a receiver for mind and not a generator of it. That's why I like the box jellyfish, which clearly thinks but doesn't have a brain. But I'm not going to stand in the way of anyone trying to prove the opposite. In fact I hope they give it their best shot and really knock themselves out as I'm fairly happy that the logic suggests they're wrong.
How does all this relate to artificial intelligence? Well firstly it means that all the people who believe in AI are currently on the other side of the logical divide (they've taken the route that doesn't make any sense yet). But also, if you haven't even got a caveman's idea of what real intelligence is, not even the semblance of an idea of how it works, how in the heck are you going to simulate it?
I'll stop ranting now. But I do love this subject "
i like this subject as well, makes a nice change seeing people passionate about things that are something more than bullshit.
there's little things though like: if you haven't learnt language by a certain milestone then you're unlikely ever to grasp it's structure.
this sort of proves that the mind already has some things in place that influence it. and we don't actually need speech as a way of communicating so it's interesting that our brain has a deadline for learning that. seems pointless and i'm sure there's some reason unrelated to speech itself of why this happens. but like you say, we don't know that much. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I should add that I also studied computers at uni so am amused by those who think they're magic machines (which includes most AI nuts). You could rig up a computer out of buckets and drain pipes. They're literally as dumb as a door knob "
Only a person who has never been locked into a cell, would consider door knobs dumb
AI is a science fiction concept, as you say we don't really understand how the brain works, though large parts of it do work on a fairly simple binary basis, and that can be replicated to simulate AI, other parts do work on a big data concept filtering memories and other input to reach conclusions, also possible to replicate. But imagination is much harder to produce, the ability to attach a rock to a stick to make a more efficient hammer, even when we have never seen a hammer before, is pretty unique processing that does appear to be unique to humans, but of course not all humans can do that, so are we intelligent singularly, or collectively?
In my opinion, knowledge is only useful if you add emotion, and ambition (which may be an emotion?). And as far as I am aware nobody is attempting to create that in any machine. |
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"I should add that I also studied computers at uni so am amused by those who think they're magic machines (which includes most AI nuts). You could rig up a computer out of buckets and drain pipes. They're literally as dumb as a door knob "
Ai has progressed since you were at uni. The latest Ai is based in neural networks of the human brain with self learning algorithms possible of self improvement and programming it's own code. Some Ai has proven to be self aware, has intuition and can consistently outperform humans in ever increasing areas. Decades ago a machine beat the worlds best chess player usuing brute force to calculate all possible moves. Last year Ai beat the worlds best 'go' player. (Worlds hardest game) scientists said this would never be possible as there are more possible configurations on a go board then there are atoms in the universe.
Thinking that Ai isn't real or is many years away is worrying. It's very real. It can currently outhink and outsmart some of the best human brains on the planet in ways that could not be anticipated. Nobody knows the levels it can reach. There's no upper limit for intelligence. With the birth of quantum computing and self learning It could happen almost instantaneously. Ai has the potential of god like intelligence that can truly understand the fabric of the the universe. Pretty soon humans won't be the smartest machines on the planet. It's worth thinking about.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"See the root problem of this is we can't even confirm if the brain manufactures the mind or is merely a receiver of it. Sick-boy's posture seems to be that we should assume it manufactures it until proven otherwise. But there's no evidence supporting the idea we should accept this stance as a null hypothesis. Instead, we simply have no evidence either way so we're forced to be entirely neutral on the issue.
The suggestion is to come up with a way of testing it. But this is the whole problem. It's like testing for freewill. There's no clear scientific test been devised yet to determine which is so. Part of the problem is we don't even know what mind looks like.
From a purely logical angle the idea the brain manufactures mind doesn't hold water. It would necessitate that electro chemical activity would originate thoughts. Thus, to think "I wish I was fucking instead of reading this thread" you'd have to have first had a set of electro chemical stimulus that led to the creation of that thought. It basically means we're complete puppets to our bodies. This, to anyone who's astute, just shuffles the problem further into the pack as it now means our chemicals must be reacting intelligently to stimulus and responding with logical responses. Intelligent logical chemicals... all because of an aversion to cartesian dualism.
The minute we suggest there's a mind and it's driving all this all the logical problems go away. You then have the problem of what the heck is this "mind"? Does it survive death? Etc.
My money is on the brain being a receiver for mind and not a generator of it. That's why I like the box jellyfish, which clearly thinks but doesn't have a brain. But I'm not going to stand in the way of anyone trying to prove the opposite. In fact I hope they give it their best shot and really knock themselves out as I'm fairly happy that the logic suggests they're wrong.
How does all this relate to artificial intelligence? Well firstly it means that all the people who believe in AI are currently on the other side of the logical divide (they've taken the route that doesn't make any sense yet). But also, if you haven't even got a caveman's idea of what real intelligence is, not even the semblance of an idea of how it works, how in the heck are you going to simulate it?
I'll stop ranting now. But I do love this subject "
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None of that would explain illnesses like motoneurons, Parkinsons, Ms, CJD... Etc etc.
Now if we need to advance you'll need to describe this "mind" define it, tell us where to find it so we can examine it...
Science doesn't have dogmatic beliefs, it just knows truths as known truths until proven otherwise like the wave particles duality, that's a rational position.
Thesis are great but you need to have at least a tad of thought processes to back it up, like what was this mind doing with homo erectus, why doesn't it inhibit itself in cows why can't they receive this mind, why can't they talk, how come crows can use basic tools and logic for themselves but not sparrows |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Two replies of a similar vein so I'll pop em together here
"as you say we don't really understand how the brain works, though large parts of it do work on a fairly simple binary basis, and that can be replicated to simulate AI, other parts do work on a big data concept filtering memories and other input to reach conclusions, also possible to replicate."
And
"Ai has progressed since you were at uni. The latest Ai is based in neural networks of the human brain with self learning algorithms possible of self improvement and programming it's own code. Some Ai has proven to be self aware, has intuition and can consistently outperform humans in ever increasing areas."
Both suffer from an initial problem. There is a view prevalent in the public that neuroscientists know something of how the mind/brain relationship works... that when someone sees a picture of a cock (see I'm trying to keep it Fab related ) a certain part of the brain lights up... this being the image processing part of the brain.
In fact this view is just simplistic pseudoscience that's been lifted from over simplified science journalism. Instead these tests measure blood flow around the brain (if I recall correctly). A person sees a cock pic and more blood flows to a certain part of the brain. Yet, even this is a simplification as in reality the blood flows to slightly different places in different people and maybe even at different times. So the image we see of the brain lighting up in a particular area after a cock pic is seen is actually a statistically derived image... it's where the blood tends to flow to more than elsewhere. What also seems to be the case is that, in reality, the whole brain lights up with all stimulus and that this idea of areas that light up more than the rest is sometimes tenuous. Furthermore, people who suffer brain damage in the cock pic area find other parts of the brain start to act as a new cock pic area.
Confused? So is any real neuroscientist working on the coal face.
So yes... the brain has neural networks. What is there relation to the mind? For years drug companies sold prozac under the assumption that interfering with them would help depression. It's now emerging their drug is little more than a placebo. Again, the picture emerges of people tinkering with stuff they have absolutely no knowledge about.
We don't know if any of the brain works on a binary basis like computers and self awareness and intuition is certainly something no machine has ever (nor ever will in my opinion) achieved. Instead, what some people grandly call "artificial intelligence" is just puppet play. It's little different from someone coming out of a ghost ride at the fair ground believing it was genuinely haunted |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Garbage in, garbage out.
We may be accelerating into a brave new world but the machines aren't as smart as they like to think. I had the truth about the future on my external hard drive machine but it got corrupted and the file table could no longer be read by my computing machine. So I made a sandwich and played my guitar instead. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"None of that would explain illnesses like motoneurons, Parkinsons, Ms, CJD... Etc etc."
As the radio malfunctions it receives a progressively worse signal.
"Now if we need to advance you'll need to describe this "mind" define it, tell us where to find it so we can examine it..."
I tell you what. Here's a deal. The concept of mind is pretty much familiar to most people. Why don't you describe how ignorant matter coincidentally generates intelligence. Tell us how to prove your hypothesis. So we can examine it
"Science doesn't have dogmatic beliefs, it just knows truths"
You're quite right. Which is why you, with your dogma, aren't being scientific. You've decided that, by default, the brain manufactures mind until proven otherwise. This kind of bias warps investigation and is exactly the type of thinking scientists do their very best to avoid. They're happy being neutral and open minded on the issue as there's not enough evidence to be otherwise. Why, then, do you not feel comfortable being neutral on an issue of scientific investigation? It's because you're uncomfortable with the idea there's a mind. Because if there's a mind there may be a soul... and then heaven knows... all kinds of things you're afraid of might be true.
Oh and.. on the subject of truth. Science doesn't know truths. It hones in on probabilities. I suspect your appeal to science is just an appeal to authority to bully others into accepting your views.
To be honest sick-boy. I'm kinda done with your angle. I'm pretty confident I know how you'll reply so I don't think I'll bother tapping the ball back over your side of the net after this. If you want to construe that as a win go for it... put some candles on a cake and have a party. It's been fun chewing the cud though and thanks for being my foil |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Your misleading and misquoting evidence for a personal belief..I don't have a problem with that except your on here (the internet) telling people how shit science is and how they'll never solve it because they can't think anything else except rationally.
You can every belief you want I'm not arsed in the slightest but then I don't tell people on AI threads about how they'll never achieve it because there "atheist" and use "pseudo science" unlike you? |
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"We don't know if any of the brain works on a binary basis like computers and self awareness and intuition is certainly something no machine has ever (nor ever will in my opinion) achieved. Instead, what some people grandly call "artificial intelligence" is just puppet play. It's little different from someone coming out of a ghost ride at the fair ground believing it was genuinely haunted "
You are basing your assumptions on out of date information. You are simply incorrect.
Not sure where you got your PhD in cognitive neuroscience and computer science from but Dr Demis Hassabis got his from UCL and Cambridge. Along with the 1000s of other scientists at Deepmind they have developed Artificial intelligence beyond your understanding. Beyond everyones understanding. The programmers don't understand why it can do some of the things it now can.
There is a distinct difference between intelligence and sentience (capacity to feel, perceive, experience subjectively) if your referring to the brain vs the mind. Ai may never achieve sentience but they have achieved intelligence. They have also proven themselves self aware. IBMs Watson spoke, heard its own voice and wrote a mathematical formula proving it was self aware. Deepminds AlphaGo outsmarted the worlds best player issuing intuition not computational power. Dont take my word for it. Do your own research. Let me know what you find.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If you want a simultaneously more heavy hitting and more hilarious version of this thread check out the lecture philosopher John Searle gave at Google.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rHKwIYsPXLg
He gives a long lecture about how machines will never be conscious to, of all people, the AI nuts at Google. Followed by a queue of distraught Google employees having a strop and saying he's just wrong and they don't know how he's wrong but he is and that's that. Lol
Nobody here standing in the way of science. Just battling atheist agendas that are sending it on red herrings and illuminating where flaws in thinking lie so that science can advance  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They have also proven themselves self aware. IBMs Watson spoke, heard its own voice and wrote a mathematical formula proving it was self aware."
I can just imagine the routine...
1) if you hear the words "I am Watson" say "That was my voice. I am self aware".
2) say "I am Watson" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Funny thing about this mind doodah and science. Quantum scientists, who are the scientiest of scientists, have said our consciousness doesn't adhere to the classical laws of the universe like gravity or magnetism but fits into the duality of quantum phsyics perfctly.
They've positied that our consciousness could live on after we die. Ths is a very challenging idea for natural sceptics, who snort derisively at the very idea but are suddenly faced with a possible scientific explanation. How can it possibly live on? Well, how can an electron possibly be in two places at once? Because it can. That's the universe we're only beginning to understand.
I can't pretend to understand much about it - they say if you're not baffled by quantum theory, you're not doing it right - but great minds like Sir Roger Penrose have compared it to computing. When your hard drive (your brain) dies, your data (consciousness) is still there and has already been uploaded to the Internet (the universe).
Blows my mind, maaaaan. |
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By *heOwlMan
over a year ago
Altrincham |
20 odd years ago I studied AI at uni and found it interesting that the goal appeared to be to create a synthetic version of human intelegent.
This always struck me as both odd and arrogant, as there is no reason why artificial intelegence needs to use the same processes as humans do. In fact the oposite may well be better.
The science may have moved on since those days, but a lot of the views and possibly the aims still remain, including mine.
Owl |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You two aren't even real you just think you are.
Your an algorithm in a computer simulation thinking your real, Everything you've ever thought of I programmed you to think.
When I unplug you your history because there is no internet, your just programmed to think it's real |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Again what difference does being atheist have to do with anything?"
Atheists have an agenda to disprove the existence of mind so as to close the door on god (a universal mind). They're bringing this atheological agenda into their science and biasing/warping it. This makes for bad science, just as much as those with a theist agenda can lead to bad science. Agnosticism all the way baby! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Again what difference does being atheist have to do with anything?
Atheists have an agenda to disprove the existence of mind so as to close the door on god (a universal mind). They're bringing this atheological agenda into their science and biasing/warping it. This makes for bad science, just as much as those with a theist agenda can lead to bad science. Agnosticism all the way baby! "
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How do you disprove something that Can't be proved either way.
Atheism isn't even a concept, its a word to describe somebody who doesn't take your word for it... And wants evidence, in everyday life they call those people sensible not atheist.
I haven't taken your word for this "mind" malarkey, upto now all I've heard is take my word for it, you can't point to it, show me it, tell me where it is or goes to, how it gets there, who has one, who hasn't one... In fact your just asking for blind belief based on musings, philosophy and half tangible unpredictable unprovable subjectivity that in reality has no way of improving my life "as I know it" whatsoever |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Drop deep mind, Watson, and any 10 year old child in the mud of an estuary 1 hour before the tide comes in and leave them to it. Only likely to be 1 survivor and thats the one that didn't know the gravitational pull of the moon or the tide time table.
Knowledge and intelligence are different things.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Also, the human mind is not actually a biological concept, it's a mystical power given by father Christmas based on big data gathered by the tooth fairy  |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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just to add we know how anti-depressants work, we also know a lot about mental illness now and how that can be changed somewhat chemically because it's based ob chemicals in the brain. we also know that medicines do not change/cure a person, they only change how they think to a degree, but we also people need more than medicines to get 'better'.
not sure how this relates to AI, coz imo, any AI worth it's salt would not work as a human does anyway...there'd be no point coz humans already exist. what's the point in creating replication? AI must surpass humans in every way.
and seeing as we are using brain type cells for AI now, making crappy stuff but stuff that does work, i don't see how we will surpass humans really. all we're basing AI on is replicating humans, replicating things that already exist. seems pointless except if it's being done to create some kind of slave race to serve us or replace us. |
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"Funny thing about this mind doodah and science. Quantum scientists, who are the scientiest of scientists, have said our consciousness doesn't adhere to the classical laws of the universe like gravity or magnetism but fits into the duality of quantum phsyics perfctly.
They've positied that our consciousness could live on after we die. Ths is a very challenging idea for natural sceptics, who snort derisively at the very idea but are suddenly faced with a possible scientific explanation. How can it possibly live on? Well, how can an electron possibly be in two places at once? Because it can. That's the universe we're only beginning to understand.
I can't pretend to understand much about it - they say if you're not baffled by quantum theory, you're not doing it right - but great minds like Sir Roger Penrose have compared it to computing. When your hard drive (your brain) dies, your data (consciousness) is still there and has already been uploaded to the Internet (the universe).
Blows my mind, maaaaan."
Damn. I've never even considered that as a possibility. That kind of makes a lot sense when you think about it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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AI hasn't really advanced that far to be honest. Machines aren't self aware in any sense of the word. They merely have more complex programming (more commands) telling the machines what to do in certain situations that may arise. And the learning new things part that some robots can do is again pre programmed into them. They haven't learned the ability to self learn or self teach. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"AI hasn't really advanced that far to be honest. Machines aren't self aware in any sense of the word. They merely have more complex programming (more commands) telling the machines what to do in certain situations that may arise. And the learning new things part that some robots can do is again pre programmed into them. They haven't learned the ability to self learn or self teach. "
I liked the Watson in the mud comment too. Here's another one for you...
If you believe consciousness is manufactured by the brain you would have to concede that, at the very earliest stage, when our brain is just forming, our mind is a blank slate. Therefore, in order to truly replicate this model of intelligence on a computer you would need to format the hard drive so it's completely blank, plug it in, turn it on, and wait for it to write its own operating system |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's not the hard drive that would have to formatted as you say. A brain without a body isn't able to support itself. A hard-drive is just memory. Like a digital notebook to store information. There's other parts needed in order for a hardrive to be classed as an artificial brain. (conscious) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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And when a brain is forming it isn't a blank slate at all. Certain actions and reactions and genetically programmed in. Or how could a foetus move in the womb, how would it perform the actions of sending signals through the nerves to make the heart start beating when it's developed enough and most importantly it's actually been proven that whilst in the womb the foetus dreams. Dreams aren't possible with a "blank slate" as it were. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And when a brain is forming it isn't a blank slate at all. Certain actions and reactions and genetically programmed in. Or how could a foetus move in the womb, how would it perform the actions of sending signals through the nerves to make the heart start beating when it's developed enough and most importantly it's actually been proven that whilst in the womb the foetus dreams. Dreams aren't possible with a "blank slate" as it were. "
I agree with this, animals "operating systems" are part of the genetics, we readily accept that eye colour, features etc. are derived derived from genetics, so why not the brain function.
Best example I can think of is the kangaroo, an advanced foetus climbs upwards finds the pouch and food source, with a primitive partly developed brain.
So we have an operating system, and some basic data (instinct) before birth. Data aquisition is taught and controlled for quite a few years to enhance the operating system, even Einstein had to be potty trained |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And when a brain is forming it isn't a blank slate at all. Certain actions and reactions and genetically programmed in. Or how could a foetus move in the womb, how would it perform the actions of sending signals through the nerves to make the heart start beating when it's developed enough and most importantly it's actually been proven that whilst in the womb the foetus dreams. Dreams aren't possible with a "blank slate" as it were. "
I agree. But the ramifications of what you're suggesting is that living cells act intelligently (at the moment we encode into our computers the instructions they must follow. In your model our living cells do that intelligent encoding). This, for me, further supports the hypothesis that brain doesn't manufacture intelligence... that instead intelligence is a property of life itself. Again, I refer to the box jellyfish that hunts its prey and yet has no brain. There's also an amazing fungus that can successfully navigate mazes set up in the lab, showing it's making choices. I believe our mind is the combined product of all the minds of all the cells in us.
The question then is... what is this mind that animates molecules in the living cell? Is it the product of sub atomic or "quantum" activity? Or is it a non-physical force? None of this bodes well for the attempt to generate either life or consciousness |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
They have been experimenting with drones and machinery to do my job, both of which cost a pretty penny to develip and need fuelling.
It brings me no small ammount of comfort that a dog still outperforms the lot. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They have been experimenting with drones and machinery to do my job, both of which cost a pretty penny to develip and need fuelling.
It brings me no small ammount of comfort that a dog still outperforms the lot. "
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Ha funny that.. were always Luddites |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Were all just chemistry, complicated chemistry I'll admit but that sperm manages to know what to do so I guess their intelligent as well"
"if materialism is true, it seems to me that we cannot know that it is true. If my opinions are the result of the chemical processes going on in my brain, they are determined by the laws of chemistry, not of logic."
J. B. S. Haldane |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"Were all just chemistry, complicated chemistry I'll admit but that sperm manages to know what to do so I guess their intelligent as well"
that's just it though. chemicals are 'programmed' to do certain things. is programming intelligent?
and here is why asking questions brings up more questions instead of answers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Were all just chemistry, complicated chemistry I'll admit but that sperm manages to know what to do so I guess their intelligent as well
that's just it though. chemicals are 'programmed' to do certain things. is programming intelligent?
and here is why asking questions brings up more questions instead of answers. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Were all just chemistry, complicated chemistry I'll admit but that sperm manages to know what to do so I guess their intelligent as well
that's just it though. chemicals are 'programmed' to do certain things. is programming intelligent?
and here is why asking questions brings up more questions instead of answers. "
.
I don't mind there being more questions than answers, I don't mind some questions being unanswerable,I don't mind people holding beliefs,I just don't think the best way forward is theocratic ideas based on the supernatural |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Chemicals are not programmed. It's the reactions of the atoms.its How they interact with each other on the atomic and sub atomic level "
Some quantum craziness happens, causing a set of atoms to collide and bond into a molecule of sorts. This molecule then makes a journey over to another molecule and reacts with that, setting into motion a chain reaction from molecule to molecule until whole cells are set about bumping into each other and reacting to each other in certain predefined ways. This ripples out along a chain of cells and so forth until it eventually comes into being as the thought "I want a wank"
And the whole chain of events was a combination of coincidence and merely following the rules of physics and chemistry?!?
Wot ya smokin dude?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ha funny that.. were always Luddites "
Not a lot of people know that the Luddites didn't object to technology per se, only technology taking their jobs.
They considered it should be used for the good of all, not just those who own the technology. And the changes we're seeing in the world are linked to that. People are fed up of the global corporate world getting its own way with the cost handed to the rest of us and are fighting back, hence Brexit, Corbyn, Trump, Sanders, Syriza and other left wing movements.
"Populism" has become a handy piece of shorthand for the comfy middle class to put down the awful proles but it means egalitarianism. The trendy folks didn't have a problem with it when it was the populism of Che Guevara or the Nicaraguan Sandinistas. Then it was right on, brothers, got the poster on our bedsit walls.
Not a lot of people also know that the leaders of the Sandinista movement were all published poets. It's not the ignorance populism is made out to be. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Chemicals are not programmed. It's the reactions of the atoms.its How they interact with each other on the atomic and sub atomic level
Some quantum craziness happens, causing a set of atoms to collide and bond into a molecule of sorts. This molecule then makes a journey over to another molecule and reacts with that, setting into motion a chain reaction from molecule to molecule until whole cells are set about bumping into each other and reacting to each other in certain predefined ways. This ripples out along a chain of cells and so forth until it eventually comes into being as the thought "I want a wank"
And the whole chain of events was a combination of coincidence and merely following the rules of physics and chemistry?!?
Wot ya smokin dude? "
Programed is the wrong word but you can have things operate on expected behaviour.
One example say your heart is struggling to provide enough blood to your brain.
A handy chain of events occurs, your brain doesn't get enough oxygen, you lose conciousness, you fall down, blood now flows freely back to your heart level brain, you regain conciousness |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Were all just chemistry, complicated chemistry I'll admit but that sperm manages to know what to do so I guess their intelligent as well"
Actually that is a good example of non intelligence, human sperm has 2 functions, 1 to reach the egg, the other to prevent other sperm from another male reaching the egg.
I don't think anyone knows if there are 2 types of sperm with 1 function each or if the sperm decides which function to activate. I like to think the ones in trances with paddles go for the egg while those in boots with laser pistols guard the entrance, while those in slippers know they are headed into a sock
However, it is limited function and the average sperm is really crap at playing chess, intelligence is the ability to learn and adapt new skills, instinct is the ability to do limited functions well. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Were all just chemistry, complicated chemistry I'll admit but that sperm manages to know what to do so I guess their intelligent as well
Actually that is a good example of non intelligence, human sperm has 2 functions..."
Woah stop right there This is classic sloppy thinking, common to materialists, where you attribute consciousness to something without realising it in order to claim something else isn't conscious. Dawkins did it when he talked about selfish genes. In this case... if sperm has a set of instructions it's following surely that ascribes it with consciousness?
As an aside, people should check out Dr Eben Alexander's book. He's a neurosurgeon who suddenly came down with a terrible case of meningitis (if I recall correctly) all whilst he was at work. His colleagues rushed to help but lost him and he was declared brain dead. Meanwhile, however, Eben himself was off with the fairies meeting god. Of course, he recovered to tell his tale. A fascinating testament to the existence of mind when the brain ceases to function... even if it is a bit too Christian for my liking |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"if sperm has a set of instructions it's following surely that ascribes it with consciousness? "
No not really, a piston engine has a set of instructions, but can only claim conciousness if it has 2 wheels and a seat |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"Were all just chemistry, complicated chemistry I'll admit but that sperm manages to know what to do so I guess their intelligent as well
that's just it though. chemicals are 'programmed' to do certain things. is programming intelligent?
and here is why asking questions brings up more questions instead of answers. .
I don't mind there being more questions than answers, I don't mind some questions being unanswerable,I don't mind people holding beliefs,I just don't think the best way forward is theocratic ideas based on the supernatural"
it can give you some good things to think about though.
i agree the supernatural seems to just be our imagination getting carried away. it's kind of funny (strange) we can, and sometimes do, hallucinate under stress and these things then become 'real'. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"if sperm has a set of instructions it's following surely that ascribes it with consciousness?
No not really, a piston engine has a set of instructions, but can only claim conciousness if it has 2 wheels and a seat "
Again the fallacy rears its head. The piston engine has a set of limitations, not instructions. Instructions need a mind to read and understand them. The piston engine, bereft of any mind, sits dormant doing nothing. Then a mind gets into the drivers seat and it kicks into action. Without a mind the piston engine cannot follow out any instructions.
The challenge of materialists is to describe the processes of intelligent life without using any language or concepts that require or infer understanding or comprehension or intelligence. Otherwise you're essentially claiming intelligence is manufactured by intelligence, leaving us all wondering what that other intelligence is made by |
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"
The challenge of materialists is to describe the processes of intelligent life without using any language or concepts that require or infer understanding or comprehension or intelligence. Otherwise you're essentially claiming intelligence is manufactured by intelligence, leaving us all wondering what that other intelligence is made by "
You keep banging on about 'the mind' as a concept along with the brain. The latest Ai meets the dictionary definition of having a mind as well as a consciousness. The point I was trying to get across is Ai really does have a mind of its own. A quantum computing Ai that self learns will have a level of intelligence that is far beyond human understanding.
An exponential increase is impossible to see close up. One day Ai might be as smart as a hámster, next day human level. One min later the level of all humans combined, min after that god level. Could even answer questions about the theorised multiverse. Be capable of teleportation and fuck knows what else. It can answer the questions that have baffled quantum physicists for eons.
The thing you struggle to fathom is pretty soon we won't be the most intelligent species on this planet by an inconceivable margine. It could be humans kind best invention or its undoing. Nobody knows. Once it's out the box there will be no putting it back. What would a super intelligent machine race think of humans on this planet? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I would have thought he'd like AI... Its made in its creators image after all and they do love the creator thesis.
Me personally, I couldn't give a rat's arse what happens to the species known as homo sapiens if they prosper or go the way of the dinosaurs who cares, were just a species amongst millions most of which have gone extinct over the earth's billions of years...
If we leave intelligence, even just synthetic ones I'm happy enough |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Again the fallacy rears its head. The piston engine has a set of limitations, not instructions. Instructions need a mind to read and understand them. The piston engine, bereft of any mind, sits dormant doing nothing. Then a mind gets into the drivers seat and it kicks into action. Without a mind the piston engine cannot follow out any instructions.
"
I specifically stated that the piston engine had a set of instructions but not intelligence. You misunderstood...
And as for computer AI point 1 quantum computers do not yet exist, they are a theoretical possibility but we can't make them. Point 2 if it's a problem then unplug it, problem solved |
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And as for computer AI point 1 quantum computers do not yet exist, they are a theoretical possibility but we can't make them. Point 2 if it's a problem then unplug it, problem solved "
They are theoretical no more. Quantum computers do exist. D-wave is one. IBMs Watson also. China has developed a quantum computer along with all major countries and corporations. Tesla, Google, Apple, Facebook, Microsoft and Amazon all in development.
There is a quantum arms race happening right now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
And as for computer AI point 1 quantum computers do not yet exist, they are a theoretical possibility but we can't make them. Point 2 if it's a problem then unplug it, problem solved
They are theoretical no more. Quantum computers do exist. D-wave is one. IBMs Watson also. China has developed a quantum computer along with all major countries and corporations. Tesla, Google, Apple, Facebook, Microsoft and Amazon all in development.
There is a quantum arms race happening right now. "
:
IBM Watson is not a quantum computer, its a Power7 multicore processor running Suse Linux, it's still a standard computer, just works on multiple cores 2880 in fact, and lots of memory. Quite quick, but not quantum. It bases its output on the ability to read data quickly, so it has lots of human input information, and compares your question against that with near perfect retrieval.
What it cant do is innovate, or create an answer it does not have data stored for, so it is extremely good as a research assistant, but not good as a scientist.
And you can still unplug it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Theres many cut off south American tribes that live no more advanced a life than rook's... On the small scale of societal living the great human mind advances no more than most other primates.
The connection of many millions of brains with the ability to pass on and store each small learned step is not that different than Watsons 2880 "core" PC |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Remember Tay? Not Taylor Swift. I mean Microsoft's AI chatbot, which they put on Twitter to take input from the Twittosphere and respond. Twitter managed to turn it into a raging nazi misogynist. Good work, geeks.
Aftr deactiviating it and giving it a tune-up, they released it again, only to have to deactivate it again after it spammed everybody and started doing drug deals. Siri is a deadhead!
And what did they learn from this? Apparently nothing, because they then released the open source tools to let anybody create one of these magnificent specimens of humankind's hopeless future.
Skynet? The robots can't even recognise an unexpected item in the bagging area. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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On a related issue... Ocado are trialing driverless delivery vans,
It can carry 8 deliveries as opposed to the driver vehicle dwhich carries 80, and the shopper has to go out to the van and take their shopping from the delivery vehicle.
Currently the van has a driver and van a bit 1 mile from delivery point this driver loads the 8 deliveries into the driverless van, the driverless van has a driver in case it goes wrong and a person to explain to customers why they are not getting shopping delivered to their kitchen anymore....
Human employment tripled by robots |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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All the billions of dollars that's gone into creating Artificial Intelligence.
But no one thought to develop artificial common sense. Which, in my view, would be far more useful to mankind... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Remember Tay? Not Taylor Swift. I mean Microsoft's AI chatbot, which they put on Twitter to take input from the Twittosphere and respond. Twitter managed to turn it into a raging nazi misogynist. Good work, geeks.
Aftr deactiviating it and giving it a tune-up, they released it again, only to have to deactivate it again after it spammed everybody and started doing drug deals. Siri is a deadhead!
And what did they learn from this? Apparently nothing, because they then released the open source tools to let anybody create one of these magnificent specimens of humankind's hopeless future.
Skynet? The robots can't even recognise an unexpected item in the bagging area."
.
I refer you to my post above.
https://youtu.be/P_uqaPxwguM.
Were not as smart as we think |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Lol atheists really are walking clichés. They try to overcome the mind boggling problem of consciousness partly explored on this thread by, on the one hand romanticising the capabilities of science and technology to replicate consciousness, and on the other belittling our own consciousness as something pretty rubbish. By this double act they can bridge the divide, making the problem of consciousness not seem so big, and letting them ignore it.
In reality the idea that the universe has become self aware is no less mind boggling than if a rock started to talk. It is highly suggestive of a plan playing out through it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Lol atheists really are walking clichés. They try to overcome the mind boggling problem of consciousness partly explored on this thread by, on the one hand romanticising the capabilities of science and technology to replicate consciousness, and on the other belittling our own consciousness as something pretty rubbish. By this double act they can bridge the divide, making the problem of consciousness not seem so big, and letting them ignore it.
In reality the idea that the universe has become self aware is no less mind boggling than if a rock started to talk. It is highly suggestive of a plan playing out through it "
.
Your not unique in your ability to be self aware of your surroundings and react to them, millions of species do and millions of them have gone bump, get over it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I remember years ago...arguing with a student of computing..in the early 2k period..he told me AI was utter pish and that computer chips couldnt go above 2GHz or something.........
the rate of computer tech is advancing...it really does my tits in when people who 'have' studied' computers(probably a number of years ago), are still clinging to what they were taught..
I will say yes..the level isnt near what sci-fi has...but deny the possibility it will happen?- kinda like saying 100 years ago, the sound barrier couldn't be broken...
and lets be honest..nobody here is in the process of working in the biggest funded tech labs across the globe that gain millions of pounds/dollars in funding....
as I said previous, in 20-30 years predictions have been made(people currently IN the field)..whether you want to believe it or not...so much has been done with cybernetics, the 'unnatural' progression is man and machine fusion..and that in itself is enough power to rise a machine to 'think' like a human.....
another weird concept would be what drives humans to act like humans...sometimes we do the most stupidest things(like ravage our planet, a monetary based system)..is that what we want from millions of years of evolution?.....my opinion is, mechanise, keep individuality and creation based thinking...with less of the constructs of a biological physical body(that can even be represented in the cyberspace realm anyway)
*back to second life..some German chick called peter is geeing me a bj |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"it really does my tits in when people who 'have' studied' computers(probably a number of years ago), are still clinging to what they were taught.."
Computers may have got faster and "cleverer" but they haven't changed and don't show any signs of changing soon. They're basically modern electrified Babbage machines comprised of billions of on/off switches. The limit of how fast they'll ever go or how "clever" they'll ever get comes down to how small we can engineer switches and how many we can cram into a realistic space. Technological utopianists who imagine infinite capabilities for future technologies or who imagine more's law going on forever are fantasists who don't understand that their "magic machines" are actually just overgrown on/off switches bound by the limits of the materials we use to build them. That's what a study of computers gives you |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Get a switch and a red light bulb, another switch and green bulb, and a third with a blue bulb. Well done! You've just created a pixel. Want more choice of colour? Set up 8 switches for each bulb. The more you switch on, the brighter the bulb gets. You've now got 24 switches in total and a more advanced pixel. Now make 8 more of these pixels, put them together in a 3x3 grid, and you can make them form a little picture. Now you've got 216 switches. Want to remember and recall the different pictures you make? Set up an array of 1,080 switches (that's 5x216) and now you can save 5 images by "saving" your configuration of 216 pixel switches to one of your 5 sets of 216 "memory" switches.
In sharp contrast the brain/mind is currently utterly unfathomable to our most sharpest scientific minds.
So take sick-boys worldview, turn it upside down, and you've got a far more grounded and rational view of things. Humanity's technology is rather crap and our brains/minds (and animals) border on the miraculously complex and unfathomable |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Your so special and unique and amazing that there must be a higher power at work, an intelligence so genius that we just can't fathom it out and never will do stop trying!.
Just except were a work of something supernatural and not the work of your daddy shoving his dick in your mommas fanny and shooting his jizz over her egg...I mean biology, what's it ever solved |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm just amazed that AI is all small talk...seriously from the industrial revolution what do people really think is our upgrade?
we progress...simple fact. |
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Just read that two Ai programs can now bluff and beat top poker players at there own game.
The Ai learns and gets better every game. This is a new form of computer science which mimics the way the human brain functions.
Hold em or fold em
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"I'm just amazed that AI is all small talk...seriously from the industrial revolution what do people really think is our upgrade?
we progress...simple fact."
You'd never guess from our leaders behaviour that we're at the dawn of a revolution that has more serious implications than the industrial revolution Imo, with potentially the masses displaced from work and income by AI of one sort or another.
The stirring of hatred against the poorer, unemployed and disabled is a portent of the evil violence that could be marshalled against the many. Divide and conquer par excellence. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Aa AI robot/cyborg or what ever you want to call it, wont substitute a bloke or a cock for a long time.
I dont really care if they can process 100 trillion calculations per second, stop stalling and go and make my fucking brew!
We are safe for a few more years before we get replaced by a dildo with arms and legs |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"Just read that two Ai programs can now bluff and beat top poker players at there own game.
The Ai learns and gets better every game. This is a new form of computer science which mimics the way the human brain functions.
Hold em or fold em
"
not long back i read about the facebook AI in development that can make choices now.
all it does it makes choices about what it wants from a list of items against another AI also making choices from that list and they have to co-operate to both get what they want.
thing is it seems to have learned that if there is something it doesn't want on the list and it asks for that then the other AI wants it also, so the first AI makes a different choice and the 2nd AI concedes and lets the first AI have what it really wanted all along. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Has nobody watched battlestar galactica? The very last episode,A.I.robots will eventually kill their masters and take over the planet,dont worry its not until 2020 its a long way of yet |
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Chat - GPT3
Has anyone used this yet? It’s quite incredible. I asked it to write me a business plan with set parameters and it’s did it in 3 seconds.
I asked it to create a beginners marathon training plan over 16 weeks in table format with accompanying strength programme. 3 seconds done.
It can write code and do way more than you thought possible. If you haven’t tried it hold on to your hat because the world is changing this can do your job better than you can! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Chat - GPT3
Has anyone used this yet? It’s quite incredible. I asked it to write me a business plan with set parameters and it’s did it in 3 seconds.
I asked it to create a beginners marathon training plan over 16 weeks in table format with accompanying strength programme. 3 seconds done.
It can write code and do way more than you thought possible. If you haven’t tried it hold on to your hat because the world is changing this can do your job better than you can!"
Did you write this or did it? |
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"Has nobody watched battlestar galactica? The very last episode,A.I.robots will eventually kill their masters and take over the planet,dont worry its not until 2020 its a long way of yet"
Same as the terminator films.
How about when the intelligence goes rogue? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A large section of this thread appears to be lifted from a presentation by Jordan Peterson on the subject...is this artificial intelligence at work too?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's moving faster than you think. Is anyone concerned about the exponential acceleration of artificial intelligence?
Machines can now think and learn for themselves without human guidance. Self driving cars and googles deep mind are examples. Pretty soon machines will be able to any task better than humans. Super intelligence is accelerating at a frightening level. The landscape may change overnight if we're not prepared. Thoughts? "
Stephen Hawkins, Issac Asomov (hope that's spelt right) and many other scientists and is fi writers warn against the rise of AI (which was an 1950's conspiracy theory).
So even though I love tec' by my rules I am in control of the tea' the tec' should never control me or the society I live in.
I robot explains 3 rules that tec' should have programmed into them to stop self realisation and protect there masters. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's moving faster than you think. Is anyone concerned about the exponential acceleration of artificial intelligence?
Machines can now think and learn for themselves without human guidance. Self driving cars and googles deep mind are examples. Pretty soon machines will be able to any task better than humans. Super intelligence is accelerating at a frightening level. The landscape may change overnight if we're not prepared. Thoughts? "
On the other hand preventing self realisation of tec' would we be making a class of (I can't use the word), eerrr a group of people taken to do another persons bidding against their will.
Sorry I way to much of a trekkie. |
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"It's moving faster than you think. Is anyone concerned about the exponential acceleration of artificial intelligence?
Machines can now think and learn for themselves without human guidance. Self driving cars and googles deep mind are examples. Pretty soon machines will be able to any task better than humans. Super intelligence is accelerating at a frightening level. The landscape may change overnight if we're not prepared. Thoughts? "
Where I live there are robots delivering peoples shopping. It's strange the way they wait to cross the road and know where people's driveways are so they can pause in case a car is pulling out. This has been going on for about a month now. |
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