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Murdered for being different
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Did anyone else watch it this week? A drama recounting the attack on Sophie Lancaster and her boyfriend leading to her death. I am incredibly sad after watching it, such a beautiful young woman had her life taken away from her just because she was being herself. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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She lived right across the road from me for years, and I'm good friends with her brother, have yet to watch it, but will be doing.
What Sylvia has done is absolutely incredible. She's a credit to the community round here. |
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But they weren't really murdered for the way they look. As if he could have put on a nice blue jumper and they would have complimented him on it! They were murdered because this country has a state-funded underclass that politicians, police and most people just want to bury their head in the sand and pretend aren't there. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"But they weren't really murdered for the way they look. As if he could have put on a nice blue jumper and they would have complimented him on it! They were murdered because this country has a state-funded underclass that politicians, police and most people just want to bury their head in the sand and pretend aren't there."
Nope they were definitely targeted because of their looks. I don't believe it's got anything to do with politicians or police, these were just teenagers doing what a lot of teenagers do, although these clearly had too much anger they could not control. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Saw this advertised and remember the incident being reported at the time. Shall catch it on catch up.
Another powerful real life programme after the recent Little Boy Blue. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But they weren't really murdered for the way they look. As if he could have put on a nice blue jumper and they would have complimented him on it! They were murdered because this country has a state-funded underclass that politicians, police and most people just want to bury their head in the sand and pretend aren't there.
Nope they were definitely targeted because of their looks. I don't believe it's got anything to do with politicians or police, these were just teenagers doing what a lot of teenagers do, although these clearly had too much anger they could not control. "
It's interesting that Maltby himself isn't keen on it being portrayed that she was killed because she was a goth -- just grabbing this quote from a recent article:
"But for Maltby, struggling alone in Bacup, the “goth murder” narrative widened the gap between his and the public understanding of what had happened, and who Lancaster was. “I have never seen it as a hate crime,” he says. “It was always like: ‘Sophie Lancaster was killed because she was a goth.’ No she wasn’t: she was killed because some arseholes killed her. Why can’t we ask what it is about them that made them want to murder someone? Not what it is about someone that made them be murdered.”" |
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"But they weren't really murdered for the way they look. As if he could have put on a nice blue jumper and they would have complimented him on it! They were murdered because this country has a state-funded underclass that politicians, police and most people just want to bury their head in the sand and pretend aren't there.
Nope they were definitely targeted because of their looks. I don't believe it's got anything to do with politicians or police, these were just teenagers doing what a lot of teenagers do, although these clearly had too much anger they could not control.
It's interesting that Maltby himself isn't keen on it being portrayed that she was killed because she was a goth -- just grabbing this quote from a recent article:
"But for Maltby, struggling alone in Bacup, the “goth murder” narrative widened the gap between his and the public understanding of what had happened, and who Lancaster was. “I have never seen it as a hate crime,” he says. “It was always like: ‘Sophie Lancaster was killed because she was a goth.’ No she wasn’t: she was killed because some arseholes killed her. Why can’t we ask what it is about them that made them want to murder someone? Not what it is about someone that made them be murdered.”""
Common sense is resumed. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"But they weren't really murdered for the way they look. As if he could have put on a nice blue jumper and they would have complimented him on it! They were murdered because this country has a state-funded underclass that politicians, police and most people just want to bury their head in the sand and pretend aren't there.
Nope they were definitely targeted because of their looks. I don't believe it's got anything to do with politicians or police, these were just teenagers doing what a lot of teenagers do, although these clearly had too much anger they could not control.
It's interesting that Maltby himself isn't keen on it being portrayed that she was killed because she was a goth -- just grabbing this quote from a recent article:
"But for Maltby, struggling alone in Bacup, the “goth murder” narrative widened the gap between his and the public understanding of what had happened, and who Lancaster was. “I have never seen it as a hate crime,” he says. “It was always like: ‘Sophie Lancaster was killed because she was a goth.’ No she wasn’t: she was killed because some arseholes killed her. Why can’t we ask what it is about them that made them want to murder someone? Not what it is about someone that made them be murdered.”"
Common sense is resumed. "
Would they of been attacked if they weren't goths? They didn't attack their friend who was sticking up for them both and brought them to the park. They didn't attack any other random people in the park that may have walked by, they attacked the two who were different. Why did they attack them? Because they were different, they didn't like them for how they looked.
Yes there is an underlying factor as to why the attackers had so much aggression and hate but you cannot ignore the fact these two were targeted simply because of the way they looked. Having been bullied myself simply because of the way I look, I simply cannot say this was not a hate crime |
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"But they weren't really murdered for the way they look. As if he could have put on a nice blue jumper and they would have complimented him on it! They were murdered because this country has a state-funded underclass that politicians, police and most people just want to bury their head in the sand and pretend aren't there.
Nope they were definitely targeted because of their looks. I don't believe it's got anything to do with politicians or police, these were just teenagers doing what a lot of teenagers do, although these clearly had too much anger they could not control.
It's interesting that Maltby himself isn't keen on it being portrayed that she was killed because she was a goth -- just grabbing this quote from a recent article:
"But for Maltby, struggling alone in Bacup, the “goth murder” narrative widened the gap between his and the public understanding of what had happened, and who Lancaster was. “I have never seen it as a hate crime,” he says. “It was always like: ‘Sophie Lancaster was killed because she was a goth.’ No she wasn’t: she was killed because some arseholes killed her. Why can’t we ask what it is about them that made them want to murder someone? Not what it is about someone that made them be murdered.”"
Common sense is resumed.
Would they of been attacked if they weren't goths? They didn't attack their friend who was sticking up for them both and brought them to the park. They didn't attack any other random people in the park that may have walked by, they attacked the two who were different. Why did they attack them? Because they were different, they didn't like them for how they looked.
Yes there is an underlying factor as to why the attackers had so much aggression and hate but you cannot ignore the fact these two were targeted simply because of the way they looked. Having been bullied myself simply because of the way I look, I simply cannot say this was not a hate crime "
Killing strangers for non-monetary gain is a very unusual thing. Maybe if they weren't dressed that way then it wouldn't have been that particular couple but then an hour later a guy would have walked past wearing the 'wrong' football shirt and they would have killed him instead. It's foolish to try and rationalise the behaviour of extreme events beyond the fact that there is something very very wrong with the people doing them. It is a problem for the state because the state funds their/ their parents lifestyle. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Not all people on benefits are bad people, neither are those with bad parents or from certain areas. Did the attackers intend to kill? Only they can tell us that but I doubt they did. |
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I remember this happening , and since my wife is a goth , it was all the more harrowing .
Any senseless murder is heinous , but to kill someone for being different is especially despicable . The perpetrators of it tried to get their sentence reduced not long ago , simply in the basis that they had changed for the better .
Well I say a worthless pice of garbage is still just that , no matter how you dress it up . It sickens me that our society still produces such people as her murderers .  |
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"Not all people on benefits are bad people, neither are those with bad parents or from certain areas. Did the attackers intend to kill? Only they can tell us that but I doubt they did. "
I don't remember saying or even suggesting that all people on benefits are bad. But it's true that anti social behaviour and violence is not evenly distributed between all postcodes. Police crime maps can demostrate this for you.
Witnesses said "the killers celebrated their attack on the goths" saying they had "done summat good... there's two moshers nearly dead up bacup park - you wanna see them - they're a right mess". |
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By *ieman300Man
over a year ago
Best Greggs in Cheshire East |
They where attacked because they were different. It's not relevant whether its dress style, piercings, tattoos, wrong football shirt, skin colour, sexual orientation or whatever. I see it on a daily basis. I see it from people who i work with. I was a victim of it years ago, admittedly nowhere near as bad as sophie and rob suffered. In most cases it stops at words, but not always sadly. What the underlying cause is i dont know. But some peopke are just wired up wrong. |
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I wanted to but couldn't watch this as I know it would affect me. Reading some of these replies makes me glad i didn't.
I've been goth and my children all have a dark side. It's just inside us. People have always asked and said wierd things to me about my look. I am alternative. They say things like "why would you want to ruin your body with tattoos " "why can't you just be normal" why do you want to make your face look horrible by sticking piercings in it". People are very rude in my opinion. Everyone is unique and my idea of what looks lovely is different. I wouldn't dream of saying to anyone " look at your boring blond hair. Why don't you colour it" or "god you look dull, why don't you liven yourself up a bit"
My eldest was horrendously bullied at school and now suffers from anxiety, which i believe is a direct result of being bullied. I will never understand how somebody can judge somebody for their individual style.
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"I wanted to but couldn't watch this as I know it would affect me. Reading some of these replies makes me glad i didn't.
I've been goth and my children all have a dark side. It's just inside us. People have always asked and said wierd things to me about my look. I am alternative. They say things like "why would you want to ruin your body with tattoos " "why can't you just be normal" why do you want to make your face look horrible by sticking piercings in it". People are very rude in my opinion. Everyone is unique and my idea of what looks lovely is different. I wouldn't dream of saying to anyone " look at your boring blond hair. Why don't you colour it" or "god you look dull, why don't you liven yourself up a bit"
My eldest was horrendously bullied at school and now suffers from anxiety, which i believe is a direct result of being bullied. I will never understand how somebody can judge somebody for their individual style.
"
To your last point i can explain it to you if you like? We are a tribal species. We are all related to ancestors who were in the tribe that successfully competed for resources with other tribes who died out.
When you dress differently, in any way, you are advertising the fact that you are not in the same tribe as others. Most people in this country are more civilised than following basic instincts to attack outsiders, but not all. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Complexity is always a victim.
As I understand it, there was an incident earlier in the day, which led to the attack. Would they have attacked if they hadn't been goths? I think Maltby is right to say it's a distraction to focus on it.
I was bullied at school - I was English in Scotland - but I know if it hadn't been me, it would have been somebody else. They were bullies doing what bullies do. My Englishness was a factor in them picking me but that wasn't the issue. Bullies wiill find any little detail of difference. Their being goths in this instance could easily have been anything: wearing braces on their teeth, supporting the wrong football team, etc etc. It's all hate. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There was an interesting interview with Robert recently where he stated that he was wearing a hoodie on the fateful night and not the get up that the dramatisation had the actor wearing. They weren't attacked because they were different. They were attacked because fundamentally those evil bastards had a screw loose. Victim blaming must stop. |
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By *ieman300Man
over a year ago
Best Greggs in Cheshire East |
"There was an interesting interview with Robert recently where he stated that he was wearing a hoodie on the fateful night and not the get up that the dramatisation had the actor wearing. They weren't attacked because they were different. They were attacked because fundamentally those evil bastards had a screw loose. Victim blaming must stop. "
Saying someone was attacked because they were different is not victim blaming. Its culprit blaming. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There was an interesting interview with Robert recently where he stated that he was wearing a hoodie on the fateful night and not the get up that the dramatisation had the actor wearing. They weren't attacked because they were different. They were attacked because fundamentally those evil bastards had a screw loose. Victim blaming must stop.
Saying someone was attacked because they were different is not victim blaming. Its culprit blaming."
It's the wording 'they were attacked because they...' puts the emphasis on the victim. We can debate this all day long and never agree. We both agree however that is was a despicable act. |
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By *ieman300Man
over a year ago
Best Greggs in Cheshire East |
"There was an interesting interview with Robert recently where he stated that he was wearing a hoodie on the fateful night and not the get up that the dramatisation had the actor wearing. They weren't attacked because they were different. They were attacked because fundamentally those evil bastards had a screw loose. Victim blaming must stop.
Saying someone was attacked because they were different is not victim blaming. Its culprit blaming.
It's the wording 'they were attacked because they...' puts the emphasis on the victim. We can debate this all day long and never agree. We both agree however that is was a despicable act. "
Absolutely. On both points. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Complexity is always a victim.
As I understand it, there was an incident earlier in the day, which led to the attack. Would they have attacked if they hadn't been goths? I think Maltby is right to say it's a distraction to focus on it.
I was bullied at school - I was English in Scotland - but I know if it hadn't been me, it would have been somebody else. They were bullies doing what bullies do. My Englishness was a factor in them picking me but that wasn't the issue. Bullies wiill find any little detail of difference. Their being goths in this instance could easily have been anything: wearing braces on their teeth, supporting the wrong football team, etc etc. It's all hate."
Yes, there were always those who target 'the other' - it's human nature and it's always going to be there. It's up to everyone to stop it going too far. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I met sophie a couple of times and robert many times,i also knew their killers,did you know they went to the local garage after and jet washed the blood off themselves....scum |
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By *rozacMan
over a year ago
london |
It doesn't matter that they were Goths.what matters as others have stated is eye is wrong with the people who attacked them?
Same with the chavs who spite gay couples and so kick one to death
Or kid-nap Muslims, rrape them and then set them on fire.
Something is rotten and in this day and age there should be no place for hatred.
We're a strange bunch.
At least animals only kill for food.
"Reading through this post it seems a lot of you have been misinformed by the media
Care to elaborate?
No,iv said my peace
?
?"
Lol. Classic Facebook style
"Ugh h8 everything.fml"
'U ok hun
"i don't wanna talk about it"
Why even say that if you're not going to elaborate?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But they weren't really murdered for the way they look. As if he could have put on a nice blue jumper and they would have complimented him on it! They were murdered because this country has a state-funded underclass that politicians, police and most people just want to bury their head in the sand and pretend aren't there."
Did you watch it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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When I was 20 I was hospitalised in am unprovoked attack because I was a "long haired freak". Sophie's death has always resonated with me and is truly awful.
I think the work her mother gas done since her death is remarkable |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When I was 20 I was hospitalised in am unprovoked attack because I was a "long haired freak". Sophie's death has always resonated with me and is truly awful.
I think the work her mother gas done since her death is remarkable "
They were a bunch of cunts,always off their heads always causing troube,that could have been anybody that night,they were in the wrong place at the wrong time |
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"But they weren't really murdered for the way they look. As if he could have put on a nice blue jumper and they would have complimented him on it! They were murdered because this country has a state-funded underclass that politicians, police and most people just want to bury their head in the sand and pretend aren't there.
Did you watch it? "
Yeah, not my cup of tea though. Bit like titanic with chavs and goths. |
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"When I was 20 I was hospitalised in am unprovoked attack because I was a "long haired freak". Sophie's death has always resonated with me and is truly awful.
I think the work her mother gas done since her death is remarkable
They were a bunch of cunts,always off their heads always causing troube,that could have been anybody that night,they were in the wrong place at the wrong time"
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I remember this happening, i followed it in the news.
Followed the trial at the time and have been a supporter of the
s. O. P. H. I. E. Foundation since her mum set it up.
I wear my mosher, weirdo, freak hoidie with pride and have always got my s. O. P. H. I. E. Wristband on.
I've had the honour of meeting Sylvia at Download one year, and have been to showings of the film black roses (that isn't a dramatisation but a heart wrenching telling of what happened)
I've seen the grace that this mother has..... How her child was not only attacked, but the time it took for her to die from her injuries and what they all had to endure (including a trial where they were spat on by the families of those accused, no remorse shown at all by the attackers)
I've heard her answer q & a with school kids after being shown black roses, and the level of compassion this woman has, is astounding.
There's no hate in her for those that did this.
I'd urge anyone to watch black roses, it is truly heart breaking.
One thing that will never leave me, is hearing Sylvia describe how Sophie had been kicked with such force, there were shoelace patterns covering her head, which was so swollen and mishaped, it was impossible to tell what sex she was....
I'm yet to watch this dramatisation, but i will
Sylvia, and the work she's done since this, has now got 13 police forces to recognise attacks on any sub culture as hate crimes
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It doesn't matter that they were Goths.what matters as others have stated is eye is wrong with the people who attacked them?
Same with the chavs who spite gay couples and so kick one to death
Or kid-nap Muslims, rrape them and then set them on fire.
Something is rotten and in this day and age there should be no place for hatred.
We're a strange bunch.
At least animals only kill for food.Reading through this post it seems a lot of you have been misinformed by the media
Care to elaborate?
No,iv said my peace
?
?
Lol. Classic Facebook style
"Ugh h8 everything.fml"
'U ok hun
"i don't wanna talk about it"
Why even say that if you're not going to elaborate?
"
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