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Veil Banned!

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

A law has come into force in Belgium banning women from wearing the full Islamic veil in public.

The country is the second European Union nation after France to enforce such a ban. Offenders face a fine of 137.5 euros (£121; $197) and up to seven days in jail.

Should/Could it happen here?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i thought this was a thread about baby cows lol - im stoopid

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I experienced living in a country where islamists tried to oblige all women to wear it. That's what they do.

Despite commond belief it is not prescribed in the book. I think the only time someone should be covering their face is under a special prescription of some sort other than that

yes it should be banned, but not the scarf.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, I'm feeling all andrenaline pumped now. That bldy experience traumatised me. Going off line fer a cuppa and snack.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My personal view is its about time they banned it in this country and before anyone gets started im not at all racist

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Id Belgium, home of the European parliament can do it then anyone can do it!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i do hope we don't ban it

we fought for freedom to then take it away from someone else

just doesn't sit right with me

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Some people are way too ugly to be seen in public. Maybe the ban isn't such a bad thing.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i do hope we don't ban it

we fought for freedom to then take it away from someone else

just doesn't sit right with me"

Agreed. But nobody should be able to cover their faces in matters of security.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As someone stated before, the full face veil isn't in their holy book, so its a cultural thing rather than a religious thing. Personally i like to be able to see someones face when talking to them as facial expression is a part of communication along with body language.

On the other hand, who am i to tell someone else what they should or shouldnt wear, as i wouldnt be happy if someone tried to tell me what i should wear.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i do hope we don't ban it

we fought for freedom to then take it away from someone else

just doesn't sit right with me"

Bear in mind.

1. The veil has nothing to do with freedom. there is no compulsion to wear it for muslims and if you ask a knowledgeable muslim they will confirm that. The veil is a male imposed tradition.

2. Those who promote the veil would have no hesitation in imposing it upon you given the opportunity.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i do hope we don't ban it

we fought for freedom to then take it away from someone else

just doesn't sit right with me

Agreed. But nobody should be able to cover their faces in matters of security."

agreed too i'm fine with it being removed when security matters thats just common sense in my book

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i do hope we don't ban it

we fought for freedom to then take it away from someone else

just doesn't sit right with me

Bear in mind.

1. The veil has nothing to do with freedom. there is no compulsion to wear it for muslims and if you ask a knowledgeable muslim they will confirm that. The veil is a male imposed tradition.

2. Those who promote the veil would have no hesitation in imposing it upon you given the opportunity."

1. granted it is their choice to wear it not compulsory. oh thats freedom of choice

2. you say that like it would be wrong to impose the wearing of it on me just like i say the imposing of not wearing it on them would be wrong, who is right?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"i do hope we don't ban it

we fought for freedom to then take it away from someone else

just doesn't sit right with me

Agreed. But nobody should be able to cover their faces in matters of security.

agreed too i'm fine with it being removed when security matters thats just common sense in my book"

I'm assuming this already happens at airport security and similar checkpoints?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i do hope we don't ban it

we fought for freedom to then take it away from someone else

just doesn't sit right with me

Bear in mind.

1. The veil has nothing to do with freedom. there is no compulsion to wear it for muslims and if you ask a knowledgeable muslim they will confirm that. The veil is a male imposed tradition.

2. Those who promote the veil would have no hesitation in imposing it upon you given the opportunity.

1. granted it is their choice to wear it not compulsory. oh thats freedom of choice

2. you say that like it would be wrong to impose the wearing of it on me just like i say the imposing of not wearing it on them would be wrong, who is right?"

Logically, I have to agree with you, but in practise it does not really work does it. If it did then I could go out with no clothes on in fair weather. Why should I wear clothes just because someone else tells me too. I should be free to be my natural self if I want to. Shouldn't I.

oh forget I said anything. you gotta live that to understand how I feel.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i do hope we don't ban it

we fought for freedom to then take it away from someone else

just doesn't sit right with me

Bear in mind.

1. The veil has nothing to do with freedom. there is no compulsion to wear it for muslims and if you ask a knowledgeable muslim they will confirm that. The veil is a male imposed tradition.

2. Those who promote the veil would have no hesitation in imposing it upon you given the opportunity.

1. granted it is their choice to wear it not compulsory. oh thats freedom of choice

2. you say that like it would be wrong to impose the wearing of it on me just like i say the imposing of not wearing it on them would be wrong, who is right?

oh forget I said anything. you gotta live that to understand how I feel."

no i won't forget you have every right to say what you think and feel and i totally agree with you that practicly freedom doesn't work in many many cases i just meant it doesn't sit right with me

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Gonna go offline til the morra and hope this thread has dropped down. It gets me annoyed but I can't help peeking.

See ya's xxx

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By *ex.IncCouple over a year ago

Castleford

"I'm assuming this already happens at airport security and similar checkpoints?"

They have a right for a female check in agent/security officer to take them somewhere private so they can lift it up and show their face.

When i was on if they got me, there were no special privileges from my end.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

emm as a muslim, alot of thoughts going through my mind about this subject. but dunno what to write or say, so il just keep it to myself.

all i will say though, is that my overall view is that it should not be banned in this country.

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By *entadreadMan over a year ago

Essex

It should not be banned here, let the Muslims decide for themselves, not some misguided politicians thinking they are doing what is good for society.

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By *waymanMan over a year ago

newcastle

"A law has come into force in Belgium banning women from wearing the full Islamic veil in public.

The country is the second European Union nation after France to enforce such a ban. Offenders face a fine of 137.5 euros (£121; $197) and up to seven days in jail.

Should/Could it happen here?"

It should not be banned, but I reserve my right to exhibit my finely honed liberal tolerance and sophisticated political sensitivity by taking a baseball bat to any arsehole of any religion who tries to tell women what to wear in the name of modesty....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

as i was married to muslin man for 18 years. yes i worn it my self a few time going over to see the inlaws ,nope i didnt have to was my choice .yes some who where it dont get to chose cos of there famliys.that wrong but if a woman want to wear it she should be aloud .as for air ports ferry they ask you to show you face to an other woman officer in a side room.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"emm as a muslim, alot of thoughts going through my mind about this subject. but dunno what to write or say, so il just keep it to myself.

all i will say though, is that my overall view is that it should not be banned in this country. "

You have a right to be heard on here the same as anyone else. Never be afraid to speak, if gives the bigots an ill-deserved victory.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Didnt the killer of the police woman in Bradford a few years back escape back to somalia wearing a burka to get through passport control !

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By *ensual temptressWoman over a year ago

Southampton

sorry but its not part of great britains culture for women to cover their face and should be banned . i feel great britain is all to quick to cow-tow to other countries ways at detriment of our own . if was to travel to a country where this is part of their culture then id most certainly abide by that and that countries etiquette . so if people wish to visit/live here then they should show the same respect .if i felt that strongly against having to cover my face when in another country then i just wouldnt go to that country.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Didnt the killer of the police woman in Bradford a few years back escape back to somalia wearing a burka to get through passport control !"

i actually have no idea about that but i'm fairly certain that those that say don't ban it would at the same time agree that in security situations it should be removed without uestion

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By *acktilMan over a year ago

Tewkesbury

Hey if male terrorists wish to hide behind a Burka pretending to be a full purda female, then who are we to stop them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What next! Hats, sunglasses, scarfs? For a free society parts of Europe don't half seem keen to restrict freedom and choice.

I'm in the 'no to banning' camp.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"sorry but its not part of great britains culture for women to cover their face and should be banned . i feel great britain is all to quick to cow-tow to other countries ways at detriment of our own . if was to travel to a country where this is part of their culture then id most certainly abide by that and that countries etiquette . so if people wish to visit/live here then they should show the same respect .if i felt that strongly against having to cover my face when in another country then i just wouldnt go to that country. "

I am with you on this one... My mum went to Egypt a good few years ago..and to go to some places had to be dressed appropriately... she didnt take offence as it was part of the culture..

Havent they already banned the wearing from schools over here???

Katie. x

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By *ENGUYMan over a year ago

Hull

[Removed by poster at 24/07/11 01:22:22]

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By *eaboMan over a year ago

marden

Ban them.

If i am expected to remove my crash helmet on security grounds before entering a supermarket or bank why do they allow people to wear full face veils in these places?

Are they assuming i am a potential a criminal because i am caucasian christian but a person wearing a veil must be muslim and therefore not a potential criminal?

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By *ustyAngelWoman over a year ago

gloucester

" Ban them.

If i am expected to remove my crash helmet on security grounds before entering a supermarket or bank why do they allow people to wear full face veils in these places?

Are they assuming i am a potential a criminal because i am caucasian christian but a person wearing a veil must be muslim and therefore not a potential criminal?"

Not ban them but they should provide the same DECENCY & remove them in banks & other places such as petrol stations compulsay!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I personally dont like them because i dont like talking to people whos faces i cant see, it would be like me talking to them with my head in a news paper, im sure hey would find that rude

When im talking to someone i like to see them and their facial exressions, other wise its like talking to a brick wall

is banning them taking away peoples basic freedem tho? i have no idea, id like to see them gone tho i have to admit just so when your talking you feel on a equal level with them

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

*Shudders at the thought of trying to squeeze my size 24 frame into too tight cropped top, mini skirt revealing thunder thighs, double muffin top, Ugg boots to make my legs look like a Shetland pony to fit in with the dress code of this nation as seen on every high street*.

Be very careful about calling for clothing to be banned. Once a precedent has been set you can't take it back.

If anyone thinks such a ban would stop at veils they are misguided: hoodies, sports wear on over 40s, jeggings on anyone over a size 6, Ugg boots on anyone, vertical stripes, white shoes, Jesus sandals, women over 30 wearing anything from Miss Selfridge, New Look et al, low ride jeans on anyone over size 8, any woman displaying a muffin top to be stoned...on second thought, ban it!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My philosophy has always been "when in Rome....."

I would respect any country's laws,culture,dress code and traditions and if i didn't like them i wouldn't go

I have no respect at all personally for any that don't do that

That includes ANY nationality in ANY country

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't know. It really depends.

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By *ushroom7Man over a year ago

Bradford

Be very careful about calling for clothing to be banned. Once a precedent has been set you can't take it back.

Really?

Now if only George Orwell had d*unk Carlsberg.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

The ban on the Burqa and nigabs in France isn't holding up at all....

So I expect any Belgian ban to go the same way.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The ban on the Burqa and nigabs in France isn't holding up at all....

So I expect any Belgian ban to go the same way."

Possibly not... But if Belgium could be followed by the rest of the non Muslim countries....

As someone has mentioned... If I have left my own country and culture... To be a part of your country and culture... Why try to change your culture into mine...??

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

If you have been to Marseille, Toulon, or L'Ile St-Denisor recently in France you will clearly see that the 'ban' isn't being enforced at all....

It was all soundbites by the French government to keep the Right happy, in reality it isn't and will never be stopped in France, Belgium, or any other EU country.

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple over a year ago

hexham

"A law has come into force in Belgium banning women from wearing the full Islamic veil in public.

The country is the second European Union nation after France to enforce such a ban. Offenders face a fine of 137.5 euros (£121; $197) and up to seven days in jail.

Should/Could it happen here?

What about immodesty

And i might point out amongst yound muslim woman the burqua tends to be a political choice,not an imposed male one.

Bouncy has made the points i wud excellently, freedom is not just about allowing the things you agree with, but the things you dislike and disagree with.

i hate fascists, but i disagree with the no platform view i know some people here have.Once we impose censorship on thought,dress, belief we are no longer on the side of freedom.

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple over a year ago

hexham

"The ban on the Burqa and nigabs in France isn't holding up at all....

So I expect any Belgian ban to go the same way.

Possibly not... But if Belgium could be followed by the rest of the non Muslim countries....

As someone has mentioned... If I have left my own country and culture... To be a part of your country and culture... Why try to change your culture into mine...??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz2LaJOVAiA

Cos we are just so good at integration when we go abroad.

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By *ushroom7Man over a year ago

Bradford

And especially tragic as it is, the downside to freedom is Oslo and Otoeya.

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By *ittlemorespiceCouple over a year ago

North Cornwall

Yes...ban them!!!! No more hubands and parents making girls wear them !

Mistress x

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

"Didnt the killer of the police woman in Bradford a few years back escape back to somalia wearing a burka to get through passport control !

i actually have no idea about that but i'm fairly certain that those that say don't ban it would at the same time agree that in security situations it should be removed without uestion"

i agree but purely on security grounds, it should be removed,problem is with facial recognition being used a lot more now and tracking known terrorist or terrorist sympathisers via cctv means it needs to be be removed for most of the time, apart from in there own home of course, after all people wearing hoodies are asked to remove them in many shops now.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A law has come into force in Belgium banning women from wearing the full Islamic veil in public.

The country is the second European Union nation after France to enforce such a ban. Offenders face a fine of 137.5 euros (£121; $197) and up to seven days in jail.

Should/Could it happen here?"

could it happen here yes why not we have many small minded people in gov and around gov ministers!!

should it happen NO what peeps wear or do should not be limited by others unless it causes harm of offence!!

i.e. wearing a Nazi outfit to a synagogue is wrong and asking for trouble but wearing a Nazi outfit to a far right march is your right!!

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple over a year ago

hexham

"Yes...ban them!!!! No more hubands and parents making girls wear them !

Mistress x"

And your knowledge of the fact women are forced to wear them comes from where exactly?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The ban on the Burqa and nigabs in France isn't holding up at all....

So I expect any Belgian ban to go the same way.

Possibly not... But if Belgium could be followed by the rest of the non Muslim countries....

As someone has mentioned... If I have left my own country and culture... To be a part of your country and culture... Why try to change your culture into mine...??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz2LaJOVAiA

Cos we are just so good at integration when we go abroad.

Sorry... I dont have access to Utube on my phone, so correct my assumption that this lengthy videorealisation is intended to specifically categorise the entire british nation...

On the other hand, as one who lived in the highly nationalist Alpes Maritimes

for 20 years ( Under Jean Marie Le Penn ), learned their language and culture so as to integrate fully into their excellent society... I understand that every nation has a minority of rectal orifii... I however am not one of them... and stand by my previous post...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I personally dont like them because i dont like talking to people whos faces i cant see, it would be like me talking to them with my head in a news paper, im sure hey would find that rude

When im talking to someone i like to see them and their facial exressions, other wise its like talking to a brick wall

is banning them taking away peoples basic freedem tho? i have no idea, id like to see them gone tho i have to admit just so when your talking you feel on a equal level with them"

I had a new lady introduced to me for my class and she was wearing a full one. I was immediately hit with the old traumatism and panicked thinking about how I was gonna explain that I could not teach her if she was wearing one when she suddenly lifted it. Phew.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Be very careful about calling for clothing to be banned. Once a precedent has been set you can't take it back.

even nudity.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A law has come into force in Belgium banning women from wearing the full Islamic veil in public.

The country is the second European Union nation after France to enforce such a ban. Offenders face a fine of 137.5 euros (£121; $197) and up to seven days in jail.

Should/Could it happen here?

What about immodesty

And i might point out amongst yound muslim woman the burqua tends to be a political choice,not an imposed male one.

Bouncy has made the points i wud excellently, freedom is not just about allowing the things you agree with, but the things you dislike and disagree with.

i hate fascists, but i disagree with the no platform view i know some people here have.Once we impose censorship on thought,dress, belief we are no longer on the side of freedom.

I reitterate, am I allowed to freely roam nude. It is the other extreme from fully covered and in this case should now be allowed.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes...ban them!!!! No more hubands and parents making girls wear them !

Mistress x

And your knowledge of the fact women are forced to wear them comes from where exactly?"

Dunno about hers but mine comes from personal experience with many many families. Friends of mine emigrated from the country where I lived because they received phone calls saying that if their daughters did not wear the veil they would have their throats slit.

lovely people.

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By *omnlynneCouple over a year ago

milton keynes

what is the difference in signs at petrol stations saying bikers wont be served unless they remove their helmets.....why should a woman of any religious persuasion be allowed to conceal her face/identity when others are not?

i dont feel we should be any different to any other country regarding a ban and the topic should maybe put to the populace in open debate or referendum.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

what problem do people have with them ?

is it that they feel they are a 'security issue' ?, that they are offensive to western cultural values ?, that they help to degrade the position of women in society ? what ?

i don't have an issue with them, they are a part of life in manchester and all part of the rich variety of nationalities and cultures that make the city up these days.

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By *rs WhiteCouple over a year ago

South

"i do hope we don't ban it

we fought for freedom to then take it away from someone else

just doesn't sit right with me

Bear in mind.

1. The veil has nothing to do with freedom. there is no compulsion to wear it for muslims and if you ask a knowledgeable muslim they will confirm that. The veil is a male imposed tradition.

2. Those who promote the veil would have no hesitation in imposing it upon you given the opportunity."

100% correct. The women are forced to wear it in most cases, so I'm led to believe. I say ban it, it's not right and it does not sit right in our culture. and then no one can be forced to wear it under threat.

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By *ikeC81Man over a year ago

harrow

I have been to a muslim country admit ally a moderate one...some girls wore the veil....

I sit on the fence....demanding what people can and cannot wear is like saying what the nazis done in the 30s and 40s in Germany

The flip side is thar the apparent request of a Muslim state.

I think there needs to be thought by the government if they decide to go down this route

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

if people can go freely fully covered then why can't they go freely fully uncovered?

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

i dont feel we should be any different to any other country regarding a ban and the topic should maybe put to the populace in open debate or referendum."

A referendum?......on what basis?

How can you have other religious groups taking part in a refrendum that directly affects another religion?

While we are at it should we have a referendum that tries to stop Jews wearing the kippah (skullcap) in public?....or Seikhs wearing the turban?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R4UaJNjAfE woody allen

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"emm as a muslim, alot of thoughts going through my mind about this subject. but dunno what to write or say, so il just keep it to myself.

all i will say though, is that my overall view is that it should not be banned in this country. "

You have a right to your opinion, just like everybody else. We just don't have to reach a warm fuzzy consensus on what is right or wrong, that's all.

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By *ittlemorespiceCouple over a year ago

North Cornwall

[Removed by poster at 24/07/11 18:07:12]

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By *ittlemorespiceCouple over a year ago

North Cornwall

"Yes...ban them!!!! No more hubands and parents making girls wear them !

Mistress x

And your knowledge of the fact women are forced to wear them comes from where exactly?"

They are brought up with the expectation of wearing them much the same as other cultures have arranged marriages. or do most toddlers long to be covered up???? I had two children, neither of which have expressed a wish for either being covered or my playing matchmaker. Can I go to their countries and walk around in a sun top and shorts or have a quick snog on the beach? I think not.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

What is this UK culture that people keep referring too?

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By *ittlemorespiceCouple over a year ago

North Cornwall

"Yes...ban them!!!! No more hubands and parents making girls wear them !

Mistress x

And your knowledge of the fact women are forced to wear them comes from where exactly?"

Answer...personal experience in london as a child, documentaries and radio 4

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

Having worked with many Muslim women in hospital pharmacies in the London area during my previous career, I have to say that they are very often misunderstood and misquoted on their religious beliefs and traditions.

Or are we always to presume that men make all the decisions for Muslim women?

If so we are presuming wrongly....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Having worked with many Muslim women in hospital pharmacies in the London area during my previous career, I have to say that they are very often misunderstood and misquoted on their religious beliefs and traditions.

Or are we always to presume that men make all the decisions for Muslim women?

If so we are presuming wrongly...."

I think this.

There's a separation problem here.

Some women are forced to wear the veil.

Some women aren't forced to wear the veil and wear it by choice.

This makes the whole thing rather complicated. My friend from Iran told me about how the veil was introduced there. He said it started off slowly, a few highly devout women wearing it, and then suddenly it took over everywhere, like a viral internet video or a fashion craze.

The problem became that once a certain number of number were wearing it, you become the odd one out by NOT wearing it. Thus a psychological reinforcement asserts itself.

People think the veil has been around for centuries or something, this isn't really true at all. It only arrived in Iran recently.

My Solution: A heavy dose of Westernism!

Erotic novels, alcohol, dildos, and some books by John Lock, Adam Smith and David Hume, and they'll be alright

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Or are we always to presume that men make all the decisions for Muslim women?

If so we are presuming wrongly....

I think this.

There's a separation problem here.

Some women are forced to wear the veil.

Some women aren't forced to wear the veil and wear it by choice.

The problem became that once a certain number of number were wearing it, you become the odd one out by NOT wearing it. Thus a psychological reinforcement asserts itself.

People think the veil has been around for centuries or something, this isn't really true at all. It only arrived in Iran recently.

My Solution: A heavy dose of Westernism!

Erotic novels, alcohol, dildos, and some books by John Lock, Adam Smith and David Hume, and they'll be alright

Have you ever been to a Moslem country? If not, I recommend that you put a rucsack on your back and go and spend a few months in Pakistan where there are places where the men will execute the women if they learn that they have dared to talk to other men. . There are, it is true, some places where the women are better treated-ie the Ishmaeli communities such as Kharrimabad but, believe me, these places are few and far between.

After Pakistan, if you haven't been decapitated by Pashtuns, or shot by Baluchis, , you could then move on to one of the Central Asian republics and find that things are similar there too, perhaps witnessing, as I did, a woman being stoned for daring to drop her veil and smile at a man. Then, providing you don't make the mistake I did and try and intervene, or if you do, that you can run fast enough to avoid the stones they start throwing at you, you could enter the west of China, where most of the people are also Moslem ( such as the Uighurs) and find at last that women are not treated quite so badly ,but discover that is is due to the dim view the Chinese Government take of the oppression of women , rather than to the Moslems being less extreme.

After all this, you could read a translation of the Koran, in which Mohammed urges husbands to beat their wives once a week, whether they deserve it or not, just to remind them who is boss.

And then after all this, perhaps you might realise that nice, politically correct notions are just that. Notions, with no basis in reality.

In regard to your comments regarding the introduction of veils for Moslem women, I should be wary of assuming that just because someone comes from a certain country he or she knows all about its history and culture . Veils have been around for a very long time, as you can learn from reading something about the history of Islam and the regions of the world where it is practiced-or indeed from reading the Arabian Nights.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

yes ban it .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Or are we always to presume that men make all the decisions for Muslim women?

If so we are presuming wrongly....

I think this.

There's a separation problem here.

Some women are forced to wear the veil.

Some women aren't forced to wear the veil and wear it by choice.

The problem became that once a certain number of number were wearing it, you become the odd one out by NOT wearing it. Thus a psychological reinforcement asserts itself.

People think the veil has been around for centuries or something, this isn't really true at all. It only arrived in Iran recently.

My Solution: A heavy dose of Westernism!

Erotic novels, alcohol, dildos, and some books by John Lock, Adam Smith and David Hume, and they'll be alright

After all this, you could read a translation of the Koran, in which Mohammed urges husbands to beat their wives once a week, whether they deserve it or not, just to remind them who is boss.

And then after all this, perhaps you might realise that nice, politically correct notions are just that. Notions, with no basis in reality.

I'm not being remotely PC. I'm saying that some woman, *do* wear the veil and would wear it no matter what circumstances were. We can't tell those kind of people what to wear or not to wear, as we'd be interfering with their personal choices, their liberty.

On the other hand, a lot of women are forced to wear the veil, and in those cases it's against their personal liberty.

So; I ask you, how do you distinguish between the two? If it were 100% one or the other, it would be straight forward, but it ain't.

I'm wary of introducing a government policy, using cohersion to stop people doing things, seeing as I like to see stuff get done, rather than it be talked about.

The best way is the soft way. The police enforce our existing rules. No Muslims get exemption within the country from them.

The Great Power of the West is not in its military forces or its powerful governments, it's in our market economy and cultural view of reality. Those are dramatically more powerful than hard power in the long run, against whatever enemy we have. We won the war against Communism by using such methods.

Trading with Pakistan, encouraging the enforcement of property right and stamping out corruption introduced by 3rd wave or communist advocates is the fastest way to get what you ultimately want.

Once women have the power, money, everything will change. All economic stats back me up on this one. The market empowers women more than any other social group. They represent an arbitrage point on 50% of potential labour. It's not like we were treating women properly at the start of the industrial revolution neither, but by the end of it, everything had changed. This is bigger than any of us. It works slowly, so we must be patient and not make any stupid mistakes by reaching out to utopian visions.

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By *athnBobCouple over a year ago

sandwell

The veil is all about control of women. It is irrelevant as to whether the woman wants to wear it it or not. If she WANTS to wear it then she is just deeper under control.

Over a period of 12 months I witnessed the slow conversion of 17-18 year old girl/woman to Islam. It is one of my truly sad memories. She started out as a lively and bubbly person. At the end of the 12 months she was an ignorant middle aged baby factory.

I had a conversation with her towards the end of the 12 months. Apparently there is a section in the koran that refers to Allah as being just like the mountains being a peg and holding the world together (paraphrasing heavily). Her Imman took this literally and preached that the mountains were pegs that held the world together. I tried to explain not that he was wrong but that perhaps he was being to literal. I showed her books about plate tectonics and a few other bits and bobs.

The following day she came and gave me a note that said she was no longer allowed to talk to me as I was a blasphemer and was attempting to draw her away from the true path.

She also won a scholarship to a design school in New York. Fully funded for 6 months. Her Imman refused to let her go as one of her 'uncles' (that was the term she used) could not go with her as she would be lodged in a single sex building and there was no funding for the 'uncle'.

I say BAN IT as should everyone who has the slightest empathy for equality of the sexes.

For those that argue "we fought for freedom of choice" ..yes we did especially the suffragettes and this evil control device is a slap in the face for these women of old.

If the ban doesn't work it is at least a line in the sand that says "NO MORE. YOUR HATEFUL CUSTOMS HAVE NO PLACE HERE".

/climbs off soap box

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By *ittlemorespiceCouple over a year ago

North Cornwall

"The veil is all about control of women. It is irrelevant as to whether the woman wants to wear it it or not. If she WANTS to wear it then she is just deeper under control.

The following day she came and gave me a note that said she was no longer allowed to talk to me as I was a blasphemer and was attempting to draw her away from the true path.

I say BAN IT as should everyone who has the slightest empathy for equality of the sexes.

For those that argue "we fought for freedom of choice" ..yes we did especially the suffragettes and this evil control device is a slap in the face for these women of old.

If the ban doesn't work it is at least a line in the sand that says "NO MORE. YOUR HATEFUL CUSTOMS HAVE NO PLACE HERE".

/climbs off soap box "

Well said. X

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I wonder if there are any swingers in Pakistan?

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By *eaboMan over a year ago

marden

"The veil is all about control of women. It is irrelevant as to whether the woman wants to wear it it or not. If she WANTS to wear it then she is just deeper under control.

The following day she came and gave me a note that said she was no longer allowed to talk to me as I was a blasphemer and was attempting to draw her away from the true path.

I say BAN IT as should everyone who has the slightest empathy for equality of the sexes.

For those that argue "we fought for freedom of choice" ..yes we did especially the suffragettes and this evil control device is a slap in the face for these women of old.

If the ban doesn't work it is at least a line in the sand that says "NO MORE. YOUR HATEFUL CUSTOMS HAVE NO PLACE HERE".

/climbs off soap box

Well said. X"

Absolutely. This country has already accepted shariah law in certain respects. It is insidious and abusing laws on human rights and our own complacency will soon have more power in this country than it should.

Think on, if every muslim voted for the same party how would that affect the political climate of this country?

Am i racist? Definitely not.

Am i paranoid? Don't think so.

But i am british, i was born into a christian country and would like my grandchildren to be too.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"christian country"

lolwut?! You been asleep the last 5 decades? No offence, but the majority of people in the UK right now are definitely not Christians.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

there is a very good illustration in the first part of how words from "the book" have been manipulated. This is so often the case that words are used "out of context" to justify things and how anyone opposing is said to be "on the wrong path". Of course the solution is to follow the main message of the book egro "read meaning study" but such is human nature.

The second poster, in my opinion, gives wise words of warning.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"there is a very good illustration in the first part of how words from "the book" have been manipulated. This is so often the case that words are used "out of context" to justify things and how anyone opposing is said to be "on the wrong path". Of course the solution is to follow the main message of the book egro "read meaning study" but such is human nature.

The second poster, in my opinion, gives wise words of warning."

To me it is irrelevant what the Koran has to say on anything. You stand accountable for your actions whatever your convictions.

I hate Communists, but if I went and killed a bunch of them, I am still a murderer whether or not I refer to the works of various Capitalist authors.

A 'higher purpose' doesn't absolve our actions of responsibility, it just explains them.

IMO, arguing over the interpretations of holy books is a complete waste of time.

The majority of Muslims today live in societies which are comparatively as backwards as the Christians in the Dark Ages of medieval Europe. Religion does have a lot to do with this which is why I find it utterly contemptible.

The idea that religious people have, that they deserve respect for having their batshit insane notions, is laughable. It pisses me off that people creep around like cats on hot bricks in fear of offending them.

There's a vast difference between being tolerant, and kow-towing to somebody's ignorance.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The second poster, in my opinion, gives wise words of warning.

To me it is irrelevant what the Koran has to say on anything. You stand accountable for your actions whatever your convictions.

I hate Communists, but if I went and killed a bunch of them, I am still a murderer whether or not I refer to the works of various Capitalist authors.

A 'higher purpose' doesn't absolve our actions of responsibility, it just explains them.

IMO, arguing over the interpretations of holy books is a complete waste of time.

There's a vast difference between being tolerant, and kow-towing to somebody's ignorance."

could not agree more.

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By *athnBobCouple over a year ago

sandwell

"christian country"

lolwut?! You been asleep the last 5 decades? No offence, but the majority of people in the UK right now are definitely not Christians."

Incorrect. About 90% of the UK population are 'nominally' christian. The latest estimate is that 11% of the current population were born overseas ...but this includes a large number from europe, southern africa, west indies etc. All of whom are Christian.

The last reliable data (2001 census) put the number of muslims at 1.5M although at a guess it is likely to have doubled (or even trebled) since then.

UK laws are based on christian values (love it or loath it) and to be frank I would rather it stayed that way.

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By *ddiddyMan over a year ago

kilkenny

its the old saying i believe in "when in rome you do as the romans do" so when in the uk or ireland or anywhere else you should do as that country dose or dont go to said country

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"its the old saying i believe in "when in rome you do as the romans do" so when in the uk or ireland or anywhere else you should do as that country dose or dont go to said country "

funny you should use this, it is a good example of our christian based culture as it attributed to Jesus in the synoptic gospels, “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” when asked about paying taxes. (Matthew 22:21).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

before anyone jumps, Jesus is also a prophet of Islaam.

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By *ittlemorespiceCouple over a year ago

North Cornwall

Is it just me who laughs at the inappropriate pictures attached to such serious views? Maybe its a sign that this is a swingers site afterall....

Mistress x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it just me who laughs at the inappropriate pictures attached to such serious views? Maybe its a sign that this is a swingers site afterall....

Mistress x"

Yeah, it's pretty funny!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it just me who laughs at the inappropriate pictures attached to such serious views? Maybe its a sign that this is a swingers site afterall....

Mistress x"

yup, but just because you are a swinger does not mean you don't want to learn about stuff.

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By *ittlemorespiceCouple over a year ago

North Cornwall

"Is it just me who laughs at the inappropriate pictures attached to such serious views? Maybe its a sign that this is a swingers site afterall....

Mistress x

yup, but just because you are a swinger does not mean you don't want to learn about stuff."

I learn every day of my life but when I see some of the posts paired with the pictures it makes me smile.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it just me who laughs at the inappropriate pictures attached to such serious views? Maybe its a sign that this is a swingers site afterall....

Mistress x

yup, but just because you are a swinger does not mean you don't want to learn about stuff.

I learn every day of my life but when I see some of the posts paired with the pictures it makes me smile.

he he, we wouldn't come here if it didn't make us smile.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

After all this, you could read a translation of the Koran, in which Mohammed urges husbands to beat their wives once a week, whether they deserve it or not, just to remind them who is boss.

And then after all this, perhaps you might realise that nice, politically correct notions are just that. Notions, with no basis in reality.

You ask the question have you been to a moslem(sis) country? Out of interst have you. Serious question.

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By *opeye-OliveCouple over a year ago

worcester

Sod the Veil, let's ban the baseball cap.

Especially when worn by spotty 18 year old Vauxhall Corsa drivers

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Can somebosy tell me what benefit banning it would actually have. I mean I've read plenty of crap about preserving "our culture" (whatever that is) but considering our record on colonialism that is more than a tad hypocritical surely?

As a nation we should be proud of multi-culturism and accpeting other races and their traditions into our world. So many posts on this thread smack of at best xenophobia and at worst out and out racism. The justification that some are stating of banning it because it is enforced is so ironic it is laughable. The very suggestion of banning clothing for what appears to be no other reason than to make a stand against one religion smacks of something from 1930's Germany rather than a trait of a country that claims to be both libveral and free.