FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Taking things personally
Taking things personally
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Emotivism can be defined as “… the doctrine that all evaluative judgments and more specifically all moral judgments are nothing but expressions of preference, expressions of attitude or feeling.”
In The Abolition of Man (1943), C.S. Lewis noted the presence of this theory of emotivism in an English school textbook. The textbook offered the story of Coleridge at the waterfall, in which one tourist describes the waterfall as “pretty” and the other calls it “sublime.” The textbook then comments for the benefit of the student:
“When the man said That is sublime, he appeared to be making a remark about the waterfall… Actually… he was not making a remark about the waterfall, but a remark about his own feelings.”
According to Lewis, the schoolboy’s takeaway from this analysis will be that “all sentences containing a predicate of value are statements about the emotional state of the speaker.”
In a society in which emotivism prevails, people can’t help but take moral disagreements personally, because that’s all those disagreements amount to: differences in personal preference… differences that can’t be rationally discussed.
A further, scary consequence of an emotivist society: those who want you to agree with them will feel the need to resort to non-rational means (e.g., propaganda, shame, etc.) to get you to change your mind." (DL/IT)
Why do people take disagreements so personally? Why do people have to resort to defence or further attack rather than hear contrary feedback as an opportunity to actually engage better? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Because some people are twats quite simply and wont admit to mistakes.
I'm not sure I agree completely with that. I think that's too black/white! "
Nope that's it in a nutshell i wouldn't try and make more out of it.
Let it go.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Because some people are twats quite simply and wont admit to mistakes.
I'm not sure I agree completely with that. I think that's too black/white! "
Although you have reminded me of the Dunning-Kruger effect, which is interesting in and of itself! Here's a vid link that gives an easy overview of it!!
https://youtu.be/VFFczMYJoSY  |
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I personally like people to give me a contrary thought or answer. I love problem solving and a natural devil's advocate.
Though in answer to your question, I think people instinctively go on the defence as if they believe they are being told they are wrong. Being wrong is a concept some people can't quite grasp or accept. It also depends on how emotional they are with the subject or how it is argued against.
Sarah |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Come on OP it's Friday fs, you keep doing this to me "
Haha! Sorry! Just thinking about the level of personal woundedness that goes on when people disagree with us. |
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"
"Emotivism can be defined as “… the doctrine that all evaluative judgments and more specifically all moral judgments are nothing but expressions of preference, expressions of attitude or feeling.”
In The Abolition of Man (1943), C.S. Lewis noted the presence of this theory of emotivism in an English school textbook. The textbook offered the story of Coleridge at the waterfall, in which one tourist describes the waterfall as “pretty” and the other calls it “sublime.” The textbook then comments for the benefit of the student:
“When the man said That is sublime, he appeared to be making a remark about the waterfall… Actually… he was not making a remark about the waterfall, but a remark about his own feelings.”
According to Lewis, the schoolboy’s takeaway from this analysis will be that “all sentences containing a predicate of value are statements about the emotional state of the speaker.”
In a society in which emotivism prevails, people can’t help but take moral disagreements personally, because that’s all those disagreements amount to: differences in personal preference… differences that can’t be rationally discussed.
A further, scary consequence of an emotivist society: those who want you to agree with them will feel the need to resort to non-rational means (e.g., propaganda, shame, etc.) to get you to change your mind." (DL/IT)
Why do people take disagreements so personally? Why do people have to resort to defence or further attack rather than hear contrary feedback as an opportunity to actually engage better?"
Soooooooo..........are we having a meet or what? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Because some people are twats quite simply and wont admit to mistakes.
I'm not sure I agree completely with that. I think that's too black/white!
Nope that's it in a nutshell i wouldn't try and make more out of it.
Let it go. "
Oh I'm not having a situation myself. All is good!
And my point is more when there's not a right or wrong opinion -- a disagreement not a fact-based mistake and failure to admit it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I personally like people to give me a contrary thought or answer. I love problem solving and a natural devil's advocate.
Though in answer to your question, I think people instinctively go on the defence as if they believe they are being told they are wrong. Being wrong is a concept some people can't quite grasp or accept. It also depends on how emotional they are with the subject or how it is argued against.
Sarah"
Yes, I have a tendency to play devil's advocate and challenge things. Like you I'm quite interested to hear and discuss and feed off information. And yes -- it takes a lot to hold accountability for something not going well even if the outcome wasn't your intent or indeed there was some 'right' in it, but when others are hurt -- there has to be accountability for that too, I think. But yes, it can be hard to own that 'wrong'. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
Why do people take disagreements so personally? Why do people have to resort to defence or further attack rather than hear contrary feedback as an opportunity to actually engage better?
Soooooooo..........are we having a meet or what? "
No, we aren't. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
"Emotivism can be defined as “… the doctrine that all evaluative judgments and more specifically all moral judgments are nothing but expressions of preference, expressions of attitude or feeling.”
In The Abolition of Man (1943), C.S. Lewis noted the presence of this theory of emotivism in an English school textbook. The textbook offered the story of Coleridge at the waterfall, in which one tourist describes the waterfall as “pretty” and the other calls it “sublime.” The textbook then comments for the benefit of the student:
“When the man said That is sublime, he appeared to be making a remark about the waterfall… Actually… he was not making a remark about the waterfall, but a remark about his own feelings.”
According to Lewis, the schoolboy’s takeaway from this analysis will be that “all sentences containing a predicate of value are statements about the emotional state of the speaker.”
In a society in which emotivism prevails, people can’t help but take moral disagreements personally, because that’s all those disagreements amount to: differences in personal preference… differences that can’t be rationally discussed.
A further, scary consequence of an emotivist society: those who want you to agree with them will feel the need to resort to non-rational means (e.g., propaganda, shame, etc.) to get you to change your mind." (DL/IT)
Why do people take disagreements so personally? Why do people have to resort to defence or further attack rather than hear contrary feedback as an opportunity to actually engage better?"
I would say that Estrella has a sublime bum and boobs but she would probably take it personally lol  |
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"I personally like people to give me a contrary thought or answer. I love problem solving and a natural devil's advocate.
Though in answer to your question, I think people instinctively go on the defence as if they believe they are being told they are wrong. Being wrong is a concept some people can't quite grasp or accept. It also depends on how emotional they are with the subject or how it is argued against.
Sarah
Yes, I have a tendency to play devil's advocate and challenge things. Like you I'm quite interested to hear and discuss and feed off information. And yes -- it takes a lot to hold accountability for something not going well even if the outcome wasn't your intent or indeed there was some 'right' in it, but when others are hurt -- there has to be accountability for that too, I think. But yes, it can be hard to own that 'wrong'."
Sometimes I 'argue'/discuss the contrary purposefully to create further discussion. It's great to listen to someone with passion. With regards to the ownership of who's 'wrong' sometimes neither are wrong as it's a matter of opinion rather than fact. However, because we believe it to be true, it is often hard not to treat it as if it were fact.
Sarah |
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"Come on OP it's Friday fs, you keep doing this to me
Haha! Sorry! Just thinking about the level of personal woundedness that goes on when people disagree with us. "
I think it is down to how a person communicates. If you say things in the right way and with an understanding of the person you are talking to, then it's more likely to be taken in the context in was intended  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Because some people are twats quite simply and wont admit to mistakes.
I'm not sure I agree completely with that. I think that's too black/white!
oops........ I see what you did there"
Eh? I don't... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
"Emotivism can be defined as “… the doctrine that all evaluative judgments and more specifically all moral judgments are nothing but expressions of preference, expressions of attitude or feeling.”
In The Abolition of Man (1943), C.S. Lewis noted the presence of this theory of emotivism in an English school textbook. The textbook offered the story of Coleridge at the waterfall, in which one tourist describes the waterfall as “pretty” and the other calls it “sublime.” The textbook then comments for the benefit of the student:
“When the man said That is sublime, he appeared to be making a remark about the waterfall… Actually… he was not making a remark about the waterfall, but a remark about his own feelings.”
According to Lewis, the schoolboy’s takeaway from this analysis will be that “all sentences containing a predicate of value are statements about the emotional state of the speaker.”
In a society in which emotivism prevails, people can’t help but take moral disagreements personally, because that’s all those disagreements amount to: differences in personal preference… differences that can’t be rationally discussed.
A further, scary consequence of an emotivist society: those who want you to agree with them will feel the need to resort to non-rational means (e.g., propaganda, shame, etc.) to get you to change your mind." (DL/IT)
Why do people take disagreements so personally? Why do people have to resort to defence or further attack rather than hear contrary feedback as an opportunity to actually engage better?
I would say that Estrella has a sublime bum and boobs but she would probably take it personally lol "
I would ask who Estrella was? |
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"I personally like people to give me a contrary thought or answer. I love problem solving and a natural devil's advocate.
Though in answer to your question, I think people instinctively go on the defence as if they believe they are being told they are wrong. Being wrong is a concept some people can't quite grasp or accept. It also depends on how emotional they are with the subject or how it is argued against.
Sarah"
I quite liked the 'twat' statement above and in the same vein believe that fear is what drives people to be defensive.
So ...stick that together and it's simply summed up as Scared Twats.....
There's no need for all the pontification is there really ? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I personally like people to give me a contrary thought or answer. I love problem solving and a natural devil's advocate.
Though in answer to your question, I think people instinctively go on the defence as if they believe they are being told they are wrong. Being wrong is a concept some people can't quite grasp or accept. It also depends on how emotional they are with the subject or how it is argued against.
Sarah
Yes, I have a tendency to play devil's advocate and challenge things. Like you I'm quite interested to hear and discuss and feed off information. And yes -- it takes a lot to hold accountability for something not going well even if the outcome wasn't your intent or indeed there was some 'right' in it, but when others are hurt -- there has to be accountability for that too, I think. But yes, it can be hard to own that 'wrong'.
Sometimes I 'argue'/discuss the contrary purposefully to create further discussion. It's great to listen to someone with passion. With regards to the ownership of who's 'wrong' sometimes neither are wrong as it's a matter of opinion rather than fact. However, because we believe it to be true, it is often hard not to treat it as if it were fact.
Sarah"
Bingo!! Absolutely this 
Ooooh hello Sarah, lovely to meet you.  |
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I'm the first person to say I fucked up when I do. No harm in it, shows you have the ability to recognise and learn from it.
As far as other people's perception of the same thing, Yeah, I think I agree with it's our own personality coming through when describing something. I don't always notice the beauty of bird song, sometimes I think it's the most relaxing, peaceful thing ever.
Personality and mood. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Come on OP it's Friday fs, you keep doing this to me
Haha! Sorry! Just thinking about the level of personal woundedness that goes on when people disagree with us.
I think it is down to how a person communicates. If you say things in the right way and with an understanding of the person you are talking to, then it's more likely to be taken in the context in was intended "
Ahh this is true. But we don't always have the luxury of having an understanding of the person.... |
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"I personally like people to give me a contrary thought or answer. I love problem solving and a natural devil's advocate.
Though in answer to your question, I think people instinctively go on the defence as if they believe they are being told they are wrong. Being wrong is a concept some people can't quite grasp or accept. It also depends on how emotional they are with the subject or how it is argued against.
Sarah
Yes, I have a tendency to play devil's advocate and challenge things. Like you I'm quite interested to hear and discuss and feed off information. And yes -- it takes a lot to hold accountability for something not going well even if the outcome wasn't your intent or indeed there was some 'right' in it, but when others are hurt -- there has to be accountability for that too, I think. But yes, it can be hard to own that 'wrong'.
Sometimes I 'argue'/discuss the contrary purposefully to create further discussion. It's great to listen to someone with passion. With regards to the ownership of who's 'wrong' sometimes neither are wrong as it's a matter of opinion rather than fact. However, because we believe it to be true, it is often hard not to treat it as if it were fact.
Sarah
Bingo!! Absolutely this
Ooooh hello Sarah, lovely to meet you. "
Hello to you too and likewise |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
"Emotivism can be defined as “… the doctrine that all evaluative judgments and more specifically all moral judgments are nothing but expressions of preference, expressions of attitude or feeling.”
In The Abolition of Man (1943), C.S. Lewis noted the presence of this theory of emotivism in an English school textbook. The textbook offered the story of Coleridge at the waterfall, in which one tourist describes the waterfall as “pretty” and the other calls it “sublime.” The textbook then comments for the benefit of the student:
“When the man said That is sublime, he appeared to be making a remark about the waterfall… Actually… he was not making a remark about the waterfall, but a remark about his own feelings.”
According to Lewis, the schoolboy’s takeaway from this analysis will be that “all sentences containing a predicate of value are statements about the emotional state of the speaker.”
In a society in which emotivism prevails, people can’t help but take moral disagreements personally, because that’s all those disagreements amount to: differences in personal preference… differences that can’t be rationally discussed.
A further, scary consequence of an emotivist society: those who want you to agree with them will feel the need to resort to non-rational means (e.g., propaganda, shame, etc.) to get you to change your mind." (DL/IT)
Why do people take disagreements so personally? Why do people have to resort to defence or further attack rather than hear contrary feedback as an opportunity to actually engage better?
I would say that Estrella has a sublime bum and boobs but she would probably take it personally lol
I would ask who Estrella was? "
Probably someone who created autocorrect lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think it's to do with insecurities, we live in a world where people are constantly seeking validation of being liked/popular through the medium of social media. So if you come along with a different POV suddenly their friends might agree with you. This detracts from them so they attack you to defend their standing.
I've witnessed it and it's not a pretty thing, personally differing opinions are good and prove that we're not all being brainwashed into believing the same thing and makes us all individuals. X |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I personally like people to give me a contrary thought or answer. I love problem solving and a natural devil's advocate.
Though in answer to your question, I think people instinctively go on the defence as if they believe they are being told they are wrong. Being wrong is a concept some people can't quite grasp or accept. It also depends on how emotional they are with the subject or how it is argued against.
Sarah
I quite liked the 'twat' statement above and in the same vein believe that fear is what drives people to be defensive.
So ...stick that together and it's simply summed up as Scared Twats.....
There's no need for all the pontification is there really ?"
Haha! Granny Crumpetism cuts through the bull!
I'm having a little pompous-ification though, 'polgies |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I'm the first person to say I fucked up when I do. No harm in it, shows you have the ability to recognise and learn from it.
As far as other people's perception of the same thing, Yeah, I think I agree with it's our own personality coming through when describing something. I don't always notice the beauty of bird song, sometimes I think it's the most relaxing, peaceful thing ever.
Personality and mood. "
You're a loveable noblet. Thank you, that's interesting. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
I would say that Estrella has a sublime bum and boobs but she would probably take it personally lol
I would ask who Estrella was?
Probably someone who created autocorrect lol"
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think taking things seriously is directly related to a person's self esteem. So if you criticize a confident person, if it's constructive criticism they'll be more likely to take it lightly and consider it. Whereas someone with low self esteem will take it more to heart, get upset and/or lash out. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I think it's to do with insecurities, we live in a world where people are constantly seeking validation of being liked/popular through the medium of social media. So if you come along with a different POV suddenly their friends might agree with you. This detracts from them so they attack you to defend their standing.
I've witnessed it and it's not a pretty thing, personally differing opinions are good and prove that we're not all being brainwashed into believing the same thing and makes us all individuals. X "
Yes, and we all have insecurities absolutely. |
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"I personally like people to give me a contrary thought or answer. I love problem solving and a natural devil's advocate.
Though in answer to your question, I think people instinctively go on the defence as if they believe they are being told they are wrong. Being wrong is a concept some people can't quite grasp or accept. It also depends on how emotional they are with the subject or how it is argued against.
Sarah
I quite liked the 'twat' statement above and in the same vein believe that fear is what drives people to be defensive.
So ...stick that together and it's simply summed up as Scared Twats.....
There's no need for all the pontification is there really ?
Haha! Granny Crumpetism cuts through the bull!
I'm having a little pompous-ification though, 'polgies "
Im enjoying it. Im just not toooooo participatory this aft... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think taking things seriously is directly related to a person's self esteem. So if you criticize a confident person, if it's constructive criticism they'll be more likely to take it lightly and consider it. Whereas someone with low self esteem will take it more to heart, get upset and/or lash out."
Hmmm, I do agree with elements of this -- however I don't know that only a confident person can "hear/absorb" critique -- I see many with lower self-esteem able to hear challenging feedback and learn from it -- often to the point that they might be the the biggest critic of themselves! I think there's something more around empathy here. If someone can feel another's point of view or not...perhaps?
https://youtu.be/1Evwgu369Jw |
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"Come on OP it's Friday fs, you keep doing this to me
Haha! Sorry! Just thinking about the level of personal woundedness that goes on when people disagree with us.
I think it is down to how a person communicates. If you say things in the right way and with an understanding of the person you are talking to, then it's more likely to be taken in the context in was intended
Ahh this is true. But we don't always have the luxury of having an understanding of the person...."
Now that's dodgy ground but you have to draw from experience. I would assess the situation and decide if it's worth having the conversation and what the likely outcome and consequences would be |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I personally like people to give me a contrary thought or answer. I love problem solving and a natural devil's advocate.
Though in answer to your question, I think people instinctively go on the defence as if they believe they are being told they are wrong. Being wrong is a concept some people can't quite grasp or accept. It also depends on how emotional they are with the subject or how it is argued against.
Sarah
I quite liked the 'twat' statement above and in the same vein believe that fear is what drives people to be defensive.
So ...stick that together and it's simply summed up as Scared Twats.....
There's no need for all the pontification is there really ?
Haha! Granny Crumpetism cuts through the bull!
I'm having a little pompous-ification though, 'polgies
Im enjoying it. Im just not toooooo participatory this aft... "
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Come on OP it's Friday fs, you keep doing this to me
Haha! Sorry! Just thinking about the level of personal woundedness that goes on when people disagree with us.
I think it is down to how a person communicates. If you say things in the right way and with an understanding of the person you are talking to, then it's more likely to be taken in the context in was intended
Ahh this is true. But we don't always have the luxury of having an understanding of the person....
Now that's dodgy ground but you have to draw from experience. I would assess the situation and decide if it's worth having the conversation and what the likely outcome and consequences would be "
Yes. |
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"Come on OP it's Friday fs, you keep doing this to me
Haha! Sorry! Just thinking about the level of personal woundedness that goes on when people disagree with us.
I think it is down to how a person communicates. If you say things in the right way and with an understanding of the person you are talking to, then it's more likely to be taken in the context in was intended
Ahh this is true. But we don't always have the luxury of having an understanding of the person....
Now that's dodgy ground but you have to draw from experience. I would assess the situation and decide if it's worth having the conversation and what the likely outcome and consequences would be "
Orrrrrrr 'don't argue with idiots' they always win. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
There's a constant message sent out in various mediums that we should want to identify and belong to a certain thing. Whether that is through our clothes, looks, political views or religious stand points. Or perhaps, as on here, whether it is right or wrong to like one thing more than the other. Once we think we have set ourselves to an idea, some do not have flexibility of mind to consider an alternative may be better, or no worse, or just different. It can be almost impossible to virtually stand outside of the situation or subject in question and not just 'walk a mile' in the other persons shoes, but put yourselves in their skin so to speak and try to be them with their particular experiences and idiosyncrasies that make them 'them'. Basically seeing anothers point of view. So when seeing their view opposed, it is sometimes seen as an afront to be shot down without due consideration.
I think that's what I mean anyway  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Come on OP it's Friday fs, you keep doing this to me
Haha! Sorry! Just thinking about the level of personal woundedness that goes on when people disagree with us.
I think it is down to how a person communicates. If you say things in the right way and with an understanding of the person you are talking to, then it's more likely to be taken in the context in was intended
Ahh this is true. But we don't always have the luxury of having an understanding of the person....
Now that's dodgy ground but you have to draw from experience. I would assess the situation and decide if it's worth having the conversation and what the likely outcome and consequences would be
Orrrrrrr 'don't argue with idiots' they always win."
Ha, I think you can learn from everyone. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think taking things seriously is directly related to a person's self esteem. So if you criticize a confident person, if it's constructive criticism they'll be more likely to take it lightly and consider it. Whereas someone with low self esteem will take it more to heart, get upset and/or lash out.
Hmmm, I do agree with elements of this -- however I don't know that only a confident person can "hear/absorb" critique -- I see many with lower self-esteem able to hear challenging feedback and learn from it -- often to the point that they might be the the biggest critic of themselves! I think there's something more around empathy here. If someone can feel another's point of view or not...perhaps?
https://youtu.be/1Evwgu369Jw"
I agree.
An example... you and I know that my self esteem isn't always the best. In early 2013 I started an apprenticeship at a care home, and the manager told me I wasn't suited that sector at all, I had no common sense and I'd never work in health and social care. So, a few months later I got a job to support my further education, went back to college and got a Level 2 BTEC Diploma in Health & Social Care.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"There's a constant message sent out in various mediums that we should want to identify and belong to a certain thing. Whether that is through our clothes, looks, political views or religious stand points. Or perhaps, as on here, whether it is right or wrong to like one thing more than the other. Once we think we have set ourselves to an idea, some do not have flexibility of mind to consider an alternative may be better, or no worse, or just different. It can be almost impossible to virtually stand outside of the situation or subject in question and not just 'walk a mile' in the other persons shoes, but put yourselves in their skin so to speak and try to be them with their particular experiences and idiosyncrasies that make them 'them'. Basically seeing anothers point of view. So when seeing their view opposed, it is sometimes seen as an afront to be shot down without due consideration.
I think that's what I mean anyway "
Good points -- and yes the empathy clip I posted (Brené Brown) sums up the importance of putting yourself in another's shoes. Well said. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Agreed, but you'll never win an argument with an idiot."
Again, when you look at Dunning-Kruger effect how do we know that *we* aren't the idiot?
Not calling you an idiot, you understand. |
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"I'm the first person to say I fucked up when I do. No harm in it, shows you have the ability to recognise and learn from it.
As far as other people's perception of the same thing, Yeah, I think I agree with it's our own personality coming through when describing something. I don't always notice the beauty of bird song, sometimes I think it's the most relaxing, peaceful thing ever.
Personality and mood.
You're a loveable noblet. Thank you, that's interesting. "
Interesting that I may have not understood the question |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I think taking things seriously is directly related to a person's self esteem. So if you criticize a confident person, if it's constructive criticism they'll be more likely to take it lightly and consider it. Whereas someone with low self esteem will take it more to heart, get upset and/or lash out.
Hmmm, I do agree with elements of this -- however I don't know that only a confident person can "hear/absorb" critique -- I see many with lower self-esteem able to hear challenging feedback and learn from it -- often to the point that they might be the the biggest critic of themselves! I think there's something more around empathy here. If someone can feel another's point of view or not...perhaps?
https://youtu.be/1Evwgu369Jw
I agree.
An example... you and I know that my self esteem isn't always the best. In early 2013 I started an apprenticeship at a care home, and the manager told me I wasn't suited that sector at all, I had no common sense and I'd never work in health and social care. So, a few months later I got a job to support my further education, went back to college and got a Level 2 BTEC Diploma in Health & Social Care. "
But I guess my question to you is (playing devil's advocate) what basis did the manager have for saying so -- can you see any evidence they had that was "right" in their opinion albeit not the full potential or scope of info? That's the point I'm making -- understanding that their opinion was no more right or wrong than yours just based on different info/experience etc -- it may not be a good example to try and place my point upon as I've no knowledge of that manager or that specific situation for you, so I apologise in advance if it doesn't quite work as a challenge.
Congratulations on using the situation to motivate your success though. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I'm the first person to say I fucked up when I do. No harm in it, shows you have the ability to recognise and learn from it.
As far as other people's perception of the same thing, Yeah, I think I agree with it's our own personality coming through when describing something. I don't always notice the beauty of bird song, sometimes I think it's the most relaxing, peaceful thing ever.
Personality and mood.
You're a loveable noblet. Thank you, that's interesting.
Interesting that I may have not understood the question "
No, you've answered your response to it -- that's as relevant, valid, interesting and welcomed as anyone else's! |
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"I'm the first person to say I fucked up when I do. No harm in it, shows you have the ability to recognise and learn from it.
As far as other people's perception of the same thing, Yeah, I think I agree with it's our own personality coming through when describing something. I don't always notice the beauty of bird song, sometimes I think it's the most relaxing, peaceful thing ever.
Personality and mood.
You're a loveable noblet. Thank you, that's interesting.
Interesting that I may have not understood the question
No, you've answered your response to it -- that's as relevant, valid, interesting and welcomed as anyone else's! "
Nice one Artorez... I was aware I was scan reading rather than reading reading  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I'm the first person to say I fucked up when I do. No harm in it, shows you have the ability to recognise and learn from it.
As far as other people's perception of the same thing, Yeah, I think I agree with it's our own personality coming through when describing something. I don't always notice the beauty of bird song, sometimes I think it's the most relaxing, peaceful thing ever.
Personality and mood.
You're a loveable noblet. Thank you, that's interesting.
Interesting that I may have not understood the question
No, you've answered your response to it -- that's as relevant, valid, interesting and welcomed as anyone else's!
Nice one Artorez... I was aware I was scan reading rather than reading reading "
Hahahaha! That name! I still genuinely liked your comment |
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"Agreed, but you'll never win an argument with an idiot.
Again, when you look at Dunning-Kruger effect how do we know that *we* aren't the idiot?
Not calling you an idiot, you understand. "
I wouldn't take offence if you did. As neatly summed up by D - K.
And in the absence of a working definition of idiot I wouldn't know what someone else meant by it. |
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Here's the crack.
We all just gotta accept other people view and understand things differently from ourselves.
Ta-dah
If you're wrong about something factual, don't be afraid to admit it. Embrace it people, shows you're human.
If you disagree with someone over something that can be interpreted differently...
Embrace it people, we're all fucking different.
See the world from another's point of view.
Yayyyyy do I win?  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Agreed, but you'll never win an argument with an idiot.
Again, when you look at Dunning-Kruger effect how do we know that *we* aren't the idiot?
Not calling you an idiot, you understand.
I wouldn't take offence if you did. As neatly summed up by D - K.
And in the absence of a working definition of idiot I wouldn't know what someone else meant by it. "
 |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Here's the crack.
We all just gotta accept other people view and understand things differently from ourselves.
Ta-dah
If you're wrong about something factual, don't be afraid to admit it. Embrace it people, shows you're human.
If you disagree with someone over something that can be interpreted differently...
Embrace it people, we're all fucking different.
See the world from another's point of view.
Yayyyyy do I win? "
#winning |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
To me, it's the prevalence of logical fallacies and the lack of critical thinking that makes social media so frustrating.
Plus people don't have the attention to hear a complex discussion. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Here's the crack.
We all just gotta accept other people view and understand things differently from ourselves.
Ta-dah
If you're wrong about something factual, don't be afraid to admit it. Embrace it people, shows you're human.
If you disagree with someone over something that can be interpreted differently...
Embrace it people, we're all fucking different.
See the world from another's point of view.
Yayyyyy do I win? "
Feck! Can I get you to do all my posts for me? Much more succinct and to the point than my effort! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Only mathematical proofs are facts everything else is on a scale from probably true to completely debunked.
Normally when people disagree it is about the definitions of words which is why people start with defining the words when they have a debate.
It stops people getting to the stage of explaining how many angles can balance on the ends of The needle.
It's also good to be able to spot logical fallacies and cognitive biases which is what Rhetoric teaches people to do. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"To me, it's the prevalence of logical fallacies and the lack of critical thinking that makes social media so frustrating.
Plus people don't have the attention to hear a complex discussion. "
And how do we change that? |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Here's the crack.
We all just gotta accept other people view and understand things differently from ourselves.
Ta-dah
If you're wrong about something factual, don't be afraid to admit it. Embrace it people, shows you're human.
If you disagree with someone over something that can be interpreted differently...
Embrace it people, we're all fucking different.
See the world from another's point of view.
Yayyyyy do I win?
Feck! Can I get you to do all my posts for me? Much more succinct and to the point than my effort! "
But hearing others' ways of describing is so important and beautiful, g3orgie -- your post was brilliant. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think taking things seriously is directly related to a person's self esteem. So if you criticize a confident person, if it's constructive criticism they'll be more likely to take it lightly and consider it. Whereas someone with low self esteem will take it more to heart, get upset and/or lash out.
Hmmm, I do agree with elements of this -- however I don't know that only a confident person can "hear/absorb" critique -- I see many with lower self-esteem able to hear challenging feedback and learn from it -- often to the point that they might be the the biggest critic of themselves! I think there's something more around empathy here. If someone can feel another's point of view or not...perhaps?
https://youtu.be/1Evwgu369Jw
I agree.
An example... you and I know that my self esteem isn't always the best. In early 2013 I started an apprenticeship at a care home, and the manager told me I wasn't suited that sector at all, I had no common sense and I'd never work in health and social care. So, a few months later I got a job to support my further education, went back to college and got a Level 2 BTEC Diploma in Health & Social Care.
But I guess my question to you is (playing devil's advocate) what basis did the manager have for saying so -- can you see any evidence they had that was "right" in their opinion albeit not the full potential or scope of info? That's the point I'm making -- understanding that their opinion was no more right or wrong than yours just based on different info/experience etc -- it may not be a good example to try and place my point upon as I've no knowledge of that manager or that specific situation for you, so I apologise in advance if it doesn't quite work as a challenge.
Congratulations on using the situation to motivate your success though. "
Hmmmm... I'm thinking about this on a full sleepy stomach
From a work point of view, I could understand as I wasn't as good as other members of staff but it was also a new work environment and I struggled with aspects like personal care, but I was good at the social aspects, like taking the time to just chat with a resident if they were having a down day and helping with activities - and I took immense satisfaction with helping residents achieve little goals, like assisting them with eating a little more than they would, or getting their hair just right. Enjoyable aspects like that have stayed with me.
However I feel the manager should have had more empathy with me and my short comings, considering she managed a care home! And when we had our conversation she didn't mention my good points. |
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I like what I like
People like what they like
Sometimes I will disapprove of their actions and they of mine
I'll argue when I think I am right and occasionally accept that I am wrong.
I will show empathy where it is needed and give advice when asked for it.
Sometimes my sarcasm is taken too literally, sometimes I take things personally.
I'm human, I have emotions.
It happens |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Only mathematical proofs are facts everything else is on a scale from probably true to completely debunked.
Normally when people disagree it is about the definitions of words which is why people start with defining the words when they have a debate.
It stops people getting to the stage of explaining how many angles can balance on the ends of The needle.
It's also good to be able to spot logical fallacies and cognitive biases which is what Rhetoric teaches people to do. "
|
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"Here's the crack.
We all just gotta accept other people view and understand things differently from ourselves.
Ta-dah
If you're wrong about something factual, don't be afraid to admit it. Embrace it people, shows you're human.
If you disagree with someone over something that can be interpreted differently...
Embrace it people, we're all fucking different.
See the world from another's point of view.
Yayyyyy do I win?
Feck! Can I get you to do all my posts for me? Much more succinct and to the point than my effort! "
I ain't thick but I ain't no scholar.
*needs to look up succinct*
Back in a sec |
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"Here's the crack.
We all just gotta accept other people view and understand things differently from ourselves.
Ta-dah
If you're wrong about something factual, don't be afraid to admit it. Embrace it people, shows you're human.
If you disagree with someone over something that can be interpreted differently...
Embrace it people, we're all fucking different.
See the world from another's point of view.
Yayyyyy do I win? "
Can I vote for you next week? |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I think taking things seriously is directly related to a person's self esteem. So if you criticize a confident person, if it's constructive criticism they'll be more likely to take it lightly and consider it. Whereas someone with low self esteem will take it more to heart, get upset and/or lash out.
Hmmm, I do agree with elements of this -- however I don't know that only a confident person can "hear/absorb" critique -- I see many with lower self-esteem able to hear challenging feedback and learn from it -- often to the point that they might be the the biggest critic of themselves! I think there's something more around empathy here. If someone can feel another's point of view or not...perhaps?
https://youtu.be/1Evwgu369Jw
I agree.
An example... you and I know that my self esteem isn't always the best. In early 2013 I started an apprenticeship at a care home, and the manager told me I wasn't suited that sector at all, I had no common sense and I'd never work in health and social care. So, a few months later I got a job to support my further education, went back to college and got a Level 2 BTEC Diploma in Health & Social Care.
But I guess my question to you is (playing devil's advocate) what basis did the manager have for saying so -- can you see any evidence they had that was "right" in their opinion albeit not the full potential or scope of info? That's the point I'm making -- understanding that their opinion was no more right or wrong than yours just based on different info/experience etc -- it may not be a good example to try and place my point upon as I've no knowledge of that manager or that specific situation for you, so I apologise in advance if it doesn't quite work as a challenge.
Congratulations on using the situation to motivate your success though.
Hmmmm... I'm thinking about this on a full sleepy stomach
From a work point of view, I could understand as I wasn't as good as other members of staff but it was also a new work environment and I struggled with aspects like personal care, but I was good at the social aspects, like taking the time to just chat with a resident if they were having a down day and helping with activities - and I took immense satisfaction with helping residents achieve little goals, like assisting them with eating a little more than they would, or getting their hair just right. Enjoyable aspects like that have stayed with me.
However I feel the manager should have had more empathy with me and my short comings, considering she managed a care home! And when we had our conversation she didn't mention my good points."
Nods. Thank you for answering, and not seeing it as me thinking you aren't capable either. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I like what I like
People like what they like
Sometimes I will disapprove of their actions and they of mine
I'll argue when I think I am right and occasionally accept that I am wrong.
I will show empathy where it is needed and give advice when asked for it.
Sometimes my sarcasm is taken too literally, sometimes I take things personally.
I'm human, I have emotions.
It happens "
|
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"Here's the crack.
We all just gotta accept other people view and understand things differently from ourselves.
Ta-dah
If you're wrong about something factual, don't be afraid to admit it. Embrace it people, shows you're human.
If you disagree with someone over something that can be interpreted differently...
Embrace it people, we're all fucking different.
See the world from another's point of view.
Yayyyyy do I win?
Can I vote for you next week? "
Why the fuck not |
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"I like what I like
People like what they like
Sometimes I will disapprove of their actions and they of mine
I'll argue when I think I am right and occasionally accept that I am wrong.
I will show empathy where it is needed and give advice when asked for it.
Sometimes my sarcasm is taken too literally, sometimes I take things personally.
I'm human, I have emotions.
It happens
"
Got one of those ^ too...bloody thing.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"To me, it's the prevalence of logical fallacies and the lack of critical thinking that makes social media so frustrating.
Plus people don't have the attention to hear a complex discussion.
And how do we change that? "
Fucked if I know.
I'm actually quite good at empathising with people on an intellectual level, and I'm prepared to have my point of view challenged if somebody can empathise with me in return. If they can't or won't, I simply can't be bothered. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I like what I like
People like what they like
Sometimes I will disapprove of their actions and they of mine
I'll argue when I think I am right and occasionally accept that I am wrong.
I will show empathy where it is needed and give advice when asked for it.
Sometimes my sarcasm is taken too literally, sometimes I take things personally.
I'm human, I have emotions.
It happens
Got one of those ^ too...bloody thing. "
You don't like people knowing that though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I subscribe to the explanation developmental theory provides: Developmental stage frames an individual's experience and provides the logic for their action. Individuals will respond differently to others' perspectives based on the logic of their developmental frame of reference and mindset. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"To me, it's the prevalence of logical fallacies and the lack of critical thinking that makes social media so frustrating.
Plus people don't have the attention to hear a complex discussion.
And how do we change that?
Fucked if I know.
I'm actually quite good at empathising with people on an intellectual level, and I'm prepared to have my point of view challenged if somebody can empathise with me in return. If they can't or won't, I simply can't be bothered. "
I get that! If there's no interest in listening, then my energy is finite. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I subscribe to the explanation developmental theory provides: Developmental stage frames an individual's experience and provides the logic for their action. Individuals will respond differently to others' perspectives based on the logic of their developmental frame of reference and mindset. "
Nods. Give us some signposts for reading, please? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Here's the crack.
We all just gotta accept other people view and understand things differently from ourselves.
Ta-dah
If you're wrong about something factual, don't be afraid to admit it. Embrace it people, shows you're human.
If you disagree with someone over something that can be interpreted differently...
Embrace it people, we're all fucking different.
See the world from another's point of view.
Yayyyyy do I win?
Feck! Can I get you to do all my posts for me? Much more succinct and to the point than my effort!
But hearing others' ways of describing is so important and beautiful, g3orgie -- your post was brilliant. "
Ah shucks! I like your point of view |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke |
"Because some people are twats quite simply and wont admit to mistakes. "
Defined by who's truth?
Truth is as subjective as any other emotion.
What right does any human have over another to explanation - you may demand it but that doesn't mean you have a right to it.
Just saying lol.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I subscribe to the explanation developmental theory provides: Developmental stage frames an individual's experience and provides the logic for their action. Individuals will respond differently to others' perspectives based on the logic of their developmental frame of reference and mindset.
Nods. Give us some signposts for reading, please? "
Try BillTorbert. KenWilber is good too but Bill is better for the practical application and a bit less esoteric |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Here's the crack.
We all just gotta accept other people view and understand things differently from ourselves.
Ta-dah
If you're wrong about something factual, don't be afraid to admit it. Embrace it people, shows you're human.
If you disagree with someone over something that can be interpreted differently...
Embrace it people, we're all fucking different.
See the world from another's point of view.
Yayyyyy do I win?
Can I vote for you next week?
Why the fuck not "
You'd get my vote |
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"There's a constant message sent out in various mediums that we should want to identify and belong to a certain thing. Whether that is through our clothes, looks, political views or religious stand points. Or perhaps, as on here, whether it is right or wrong to like one thing more than the other. Once we think we have set ourselves to an idea, some do not have flexibility of mind to consider an alternative may be better, or no worse, or just different. It can be almost impossible to virtually stand outside of the situation or subject in question and not just 'walk a mile' in the other persons shoes, but put yourselves in their skin so to speak and try to be them with their particular experiences and idiosyncrasies that make them 'them'. Basically seeing anothers point of view. So when seeing their view opposed, it is sometimes seen as an afront to be shot down without due consideration.
I think that's what I mean anyway
Good points -- and yes the empathy clip I posted (Brené Brown) sums up the importance of putting yourself in another's shoes. Well said. "
This really. We're a tribal species anyway but it's about power as well. Lets say there's a fact about life that inconveniences people, then there's a certain proportion of the inconvenienced predisposed to listen to any claptrap that gets them out of their inconvenience. In a democracy with a court of public opinion, all you really need are people to agree or synpathise with you in order to gain power. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There's a constant message sent out in various mediums that we should want to identify and belong to a certain thing. Whether that is through our clothes, looks, political views or religious stand points. Or perhaps, as on here, whether it is right or wrong to like one thing more than the other. Once we think we have set ourselves to an idea, some do not have flexibility of mind to consider an alternative may be better, or no worse, or just different. It can be almost impossible to virtually stand outside of the situation or subject in question and not just 'walk a mile' in the other persons shoes, but put yourselves in their skin so to speak and try to be them with their particular experiences and idiosyncrasies that make them 'them'. Basically seeing anothers point of view. So when seeing their view opposed, it is sometimes seen as an afront to be shot down without due consideration.
I think that's what I mean anyway
Good points -- and yes the empathy clip I posted (Brené Brown) sums up the importance of putting yourself in another's shoes. Well said.
This really. We're a tribal species anyway but it's about power as well. Lets say there's a fact about life that inconveniences people, then there's a certain proportion of the inconvenienced predisposed to listen to any claptrap that gets them out of their inconvenience. In a democracy with a court of public opinion, all you really need are people to agree or synpathise with you in order to gain power. "
.
Bollocks  |
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"I like what I like
People like what they like
Sometimes I will disapprove of their actions and they of mine
I'll argue when I think I am right and occasionally accept that I am wrong.
I will show empathy where it is needed and give advice when asked for it.
Sometimes my sarcasm is taken too literally, sometimes I take things personally.
I'm human, I have emotions.
It happens
Got one of those ^ too...bloody thing.
You don't like people knowing that though. "
Not you as well. I'm tough |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I subscribe to the explanation developmental theory provides: Developmental stage frames an individual's experience and provides the logic for their action. Individuals will respond differently to others' perspectives based on the logic of their developmental frame of reference and mindset.
Nods. Give us some signposts for reading, please?
Try BillTorbert. KenWilber is good too but Bill is better for the practical application and a bit less esoteric "
If you like Star Trek - on his website he has the PDF of an excerpt from one of his books illustrating the theory, using a chapter where Cpt Jean-Luc Picard falls in love with Commander Nella Daren - it's a lovely story and the episode is worth watching too. |
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"Here's the crack.
We all just gotta accept other people view and understand things differently from ourselves.
Ta-dah
If you're wrong about something factual, don't be afraid to admit it. Embrace it people, shows you're human.
If you disagree with someone over something that can be interpreted differently...
Embrace it people, we're all fucking different.
See the world from another's point of view.
Yayyyyy do I win?
Can I vote for you next week?
Why the fuck not
You'd get my vote "
Don't say the V word. It brings trouble. |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Because some people are twats quite simply and wont admit to mistakes.
Defined by who's truth?
Truth is as subjective as any other emotion.
What right does any human have over another to explanation - you may demand it but that doesn't mean you have a right to it.
Just saying lol.
"
|
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Here's the crack.
We all just gotta accept other people view and understand things differently from ourselves.
Ta-dah
If you're wrong about something factual, don't be afraid to admit it. Embrace it people, shows you're human.
If you disagree with someone over something that can be interpreted differently...
Embrace it people, we're all fucking different.
See the world from another's point of view.
Yayyyyy do I win?
Feck! Can I get you to do all my posts for me? Much more succinct and to the point than my effort!
But hearing others' ways of describing is so important and beautiful, g3orgie -- your post was brilliant.
Ah shucks! I like your point of view "
Cheers |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I subscribe to the explanation developmental theory provides: Developmental stage frames an individual's experience and provides the logic for their action. Individuals will respond differently to others' perspectives based on the logic of their developmental frame of reference and mindset.
Nods. Give us some signposts for reading, please?
Try BillTorbert. KenWilber is good too but Bill is better for the practical application and a bit less esoteric "
Thanks |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Even mental people wouldn't vote for me..I know,I've tried
Most men get into social justice issues for the pussy. It's a perfect illustration of my point. "
.
Social justice? Mmm I might call off Manchester then |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"There's a constant message sent out in various mediums that we should want to identify and belong to a certain thing. Whether that is through our clothes, looks, political views or religious stand points. Or perhaps, as on here, whether it is right or wrong to like one thing more than the other. Once we think we have set ourselves to an idea, some do not have flexibility of mind to consider an alternative may be better, or no worse, or just different. It can be almost impossible to virtually stand outside of the situation or subject in question and not just 'walk a mile' in the other persons shoes, but put yourselves in their skin so to speak and try to be them with their particular experiences and idiosyncrasies that make them 'them'. Basically seeing anothers point of view. So when seeing their view opposed, it is sometimes seen as an afront to be shot down without due consideration.
I think that's what I mean anyway
Good points -- and yes the empathy clip I posted (Brené Brown) sums up the importance of putting yourself in another's shoes. Well said.
This really. We're a tribal species anyway but it's about power as well. Lets say there's a fact about life that inconveniences people, then there's a certain proportion of the inconvenienced predisposed to listen to any claptrap that gets them out of their inconvenience. In a democracy with a court of public opinion, all you really need are people to agree or synpathise with you in order to gain power. "
Absolutely |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
" Nods. Give us some signposts for reading, please?
Winnie the Pooh
"
Sorry, it was a specific question to that poster about their point.
Thanks though. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"There's a constant message sent out in various mediums that we should want to identify and belong to a certain thing. Whether that is through our clothes, looks, political views or religious stand points. Or perhaps, as on here, whether it is right or wrong to like one thing more than the other. Once we think we have set ourselves to an idea, some do not have flexibility of mind to consider an alternative may be better, or no worse, or just different. It can be almost impossible to virtually stand outside of the situation or subject in question and not just 'walk a mile' in the other persons shoes, but put yourselves in their skin so to speak and try to be them with their particular experiences and idiosyncrasies that make them 'them'. Basically seeing anothers point of view. So when seeing their view opposed, it is sometimes seen as an afront to be shot down without due consideration.
I think that's what I mean anyway
Good points -- and yes the empathy clip I posted (Brené Brown) sums up the importance of putting yourself in another's shoes. Well said.
This really. We're a tribal species anyway but it's about power as well. Lets say there's a fact about life that inconveniences people, then there's a certain proportion of the inconvenienced predisposed to listen to any claptrap that gets them out of their inconvenience. In a democracy with a court of public opinion, all you really need are people to agree or synpathise with you in order to gain power. .
Bollocks "
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I subscribe to the explanation developmental theory provides: Developmental stage frames an individual's experience and provides the logic for their action. Individuals will respond differently to others' perspectives based on the logic of their developmental frame of reference and mindset.
Nods. Give us some signposts for reading, please?
Try BillTorbert. KenWilber is good too but Bill is better for the practical application and a bit less esoteric
If you like Star Trek - on his website he has the PDF of an excerpt from one of his books illustrating the theory, using a chapter where Cpt Jean-Luc Picard falls in love with Commander Nella Daren - it's a lovely story and the episode is worth watching too. "
Brilliant |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Even mental people wouldn't vote for me..I know,I've tried
Most men get into social justice issues for the pussy. It's a perfect illustration of my point. "
Ouch! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There's a constant message sent out in various mediums that we should want to identify and belong to a certain thing. Whether that is through our clothes, looks, political views or religious stand points. Or perhaps, as on here, whether it is right or wrong to like one thing more than the other. Once we think we have set ourselves to an idea, some do not have flexibility of mind to consider an alternative may be better, or no worse, or just different. It can be almost impossible to virtually stand outside of the situation or subject in question and not just 'walk a mile' in the other persons shoes, but put yourselves in their skin so to speak and try to be them with their particular experiences and idiosyncrasies that make them 'them'. Basically seeing anothers point of view. So when seeing their view opposed, it is sometimes seen as an afront to be shot down without due consideration.
I think that's what I mean anyway
Good points -- and yes the empathy clip I posted (Brené Brown) sums up the importance of putting yourself in another's shoes. Well said.
This really. We're a tribal species anyway but it's about power as well. Lets say there's a fact about life that inconveniences people, then there's a certain proportion of the inconvenienced predisposed to listen to any claptrap that gets them out of their inconvenience. In a democracy with a court of public opinion, all you really need are people to agree or synpathise with you in order to gain power. "
All too true. For instance: many say that they want change. Alas, true change would bring about the inconvenience of a routine being disrupted.
One of my favourite quotes is from one of Terry Pratchetts Discworld novels, where the Patrician is imparting a bit of inciteful wisdom to Commander Vimes of The Watch. 'They think they want good government and justice for all, Vimes, yet what is it they really crave, deep in their hearts? Only that things go on as normal and tomorrow is pretty much like today.' |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Even mental people wouldn't vote for me..I know,I've tried
Most men get into social justice issues for the pussy. It's a perfect illustration of my point.
Ouch! "
.
Is he taking the piss out of me? I can never tell coz he uses fancy Dan wording |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
Got one of those ^ too...bloody thing.
You don't like people knowing that though.
Not you as well. I'm tough
Not mutually exclusive.
Shhh people might think I'm a caring person. "
My lips are sealed. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"There's a constant message sent out in various mediums that we should want to identify and belong to a certain thing. Whether that is through our clothes, looks, political views or religious stand points. Or perhaps, as on here, whether it is right or wrong to like one thing more than the other. Once we think we have set ourselves to an idea, some do not have flexibility of mind to consider an alternative may be better, or no worse, or just different. It can be almost impossible to virtually stand outside of the situation or subject in question and not just 'walk a mile' in the other persons shoes, but put yourselves in their skin so to speak and try to be them with their particular experiences and idiosyncrasies that make them 'them'. Basically seeing anothers point of view. So when seeing their view opposed, it is sometimes seen as an afront to be shot down without due consideration.
I think that's what I mean anyway
Good points -- and yes the empathy clip I posted (Brené Brown) sums up the importance of putting yourself in another's shoes. Well said.
This really. We're a tribal species anyway but it's about power as well. Lets say there's a fact about life that inconveniences people, then there's a certain proportion of the inconvenienced predisposed to listen to any claptrap that gets them out of their inconvenience. In a democracy with a court of public opinion, all you really need are people to agree or synpathise with you in order to gain power.
All too true. For instance: many say that they want change. Alas, true change would bring about the inconvenience of a routine being disrupted.
One of my favourite quotes is from one of Terry Pratchetts Discworld novels, where the Patrician is imparting a bit of inciteful wisdom to Commander Vimes of The Watch. 'They think they want good government and justice for all, Vimes, yet what is it they really crave, deep in their hearts? Only that things go on as normal and tomorrow is pretty much like today.'"
Sighs. That makes me sad. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Even mental people wouldn't vote for me..I know,I've tried
Most men get into social justice issues for the pussy. It's a perfect illustration of my point.
Ouch! .
Is he taking the piss out of me? I can never tell coz he uses fancy Dan wording"
I can't speak to others intent or meaning! I'm usually clueless. |
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"There's a constant message sent out in various mediums that we should want to identify and belong to a certain thing. Whether that is through our clothes, looks, political views or religious stand points. Or perhaps, as on here, whether it is right or wrong to like one thing more than the other. Once we think we have set ourselves to an idea, some do not have flexibility of mind to consider an alternative may be better, or no worse, or just different. It can be almost impossible to virtually stand outside of the situation or subject in question and not just 'walk a mile' in the other persons shoes, but put yourselves in their skin so to speak and try to be them with their particular experiences and idiosyncrasies that make them 'them'. Basically seeing anothers point of view. So when seeing their view opposed, it is sometimes seen as an afront to be shot down without due consideration.
I think that's what I mean anyway
Good points -- and yes the empathy clip I posted (Brené Brown) sums up the importance of putting yourself in another's shoes. Well said.
This really. We're a tribal species anyway but it's about power as well. Lets say there's a fact about life that inconveniences people, then there's a certain proportion of the inconvenienced predisposed to listen to any claptrap that gets them out of their inconvenience. In a democracy with a court of public opinion, all you really need are people to agree or synpathise with you in order to gain power.
All too true. For instance: many say that they want change. Alas, true change would bring about the inconvenience of a routine being disrupted.
One of my favourite quotes is from one of Terry Pratchetts Discworld novels, where the Patrician is imparting a bit of inciteful wisdom to Commander Vimes of The Watch. 'They think they want good government and justice for all, Vimes, yet what is it they really crave, deep in their hearts? Only that things go on as normal and tomorrow is pretty much like today.'"
Usually,I like a routine (as you know) and I think that may be where my troubles lie.
Right now, I think change is good.
I need a change. Embrace the change |
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"There's a constant message sent out in various mediums that we should want to identify and belong to a certain thing. Whether that is through our clothes, looks, political views or religious stand points. Or perhaps, as on here, whether it is right or wrong to like one thing more than the other. Once we think we have set ourselves to an idea, some do not have flexibility of mind to consider an alternative may be better, or no worse, or just different. It can be almost impossible to virtually stand outside of the situation or subject in question and not just 'walk a mile' in the other persons shoes, but put yourselves in their skin so to speak and try to be them with their particular experiences and idiosyncrasies that make them 'them'. Basically seeing anothers point of view. So when seeing their view opposed, it is sometimes seen as an afront to be shot down without due consideration.
I think that's what I mean anyway
Good points -- and yes the empathy clip I posted (Brené Brown) sums up the importance of putting yourself in another's shoes. Well said.
This really. We're a tribal species anyway but it's about power as well. Lets say there's a fact about life that inconveniences people, then there's a certain proportion of the inconvenienced predisposed to listen to any claptrap that gets them out of their inconvenience. In a democracy with a court of public opinion, all you really need are people to agree or synpathise with you in order to gain power.
All too true. For instance: many say that they want change. Alas, true change would bring about the inconvenience of a routine being disrupted.
One of my favourite quotes is from one of Terry Pratchetts Discworld novels, where the Patrician is imparting a bit of inciteful wisdom to Commander Vimes of The Watch. 'They think they want good government and justice for all, Vimes, yet what is it they really crave, deep in their hearts? Only that things go on as normal and tomorrow is pretty much like today.'"
Also..please define normal |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
This really. We're a tribal species anyway but it's about power as well. Lets say there's a fact about life that inconveniences people, then there's a certain proportion of the inconvenienced predisposed to listen to any claptrap that gets them out of their inconvenience. In a democracy with a court of public opinion, all you really need are people to agree or synpathise with you in order to gain power.
All too true. For instance: many say that they want change. Alas, true change would bring about the inconvenience of a routine being disrupted.
One of my favourite quotes is from one of Terry Pratchetts Discworld novels, where the Patrician is imparting a bit of inciteful wisdom to Commander Vimes of The Watch. 'They think they want good government and justice for all, Vimes, yet what is it they really crave, deep in their hearts? Only that things go on as normal and tomorrow is pretty much like today.'
Also..please define normal "
I do not believe that I am qualified to do that |
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"
This really. We're a tribal species anyway but it's about power as well. Lets say there's a fact about life that inconveniences people, then there's a certain proportion of the inconvenienced predisposed to listen to any claptrap that gets them out of their inconvenience. In a democracy with a court of public opinion, all you really need are people to agree or synpathise with you in order to gain power.
All too true. For instance: many say that they want change. Alas, true change would bring about the inconvenience of a routine being disrupted.
One of my favourite quotes is from one of Terry Pratchetts Discworld novels, where the Patrician is imparting a bit of inciteful wisdom to Commander Vimes of The Watch. 'They think they want good government and justice for all, Vimes, yet what is it they really crave, deep in their hearts? Only that things go on as normal and tomorrow is pretty much like today.'
Also..please define normal
I do not believe that I am qualified to do that "
Two loons don't make a normal |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
This really. We're a tribal species anyway but it's about power as well. Lets say there's a fact about life that inconveniences people, then there's a certain proportion of the inconvenienced predisposed to listen to any claptrap that gets them out of their inconvenience. In a democracy with a court of public opinion, all you really need are people to agree or synpathise with you in order to gain power.
All too true. For instance: many say that they want change. Alas, true change would bring about the inconvenience of a routine being disrupted.
One of my favourite quotes is from one of Terry Pratchetts Discworld novels, where the Patrician is imparting a bit of inciteful wisdom to Commander Vimes of The Watch. 'They think they want good government and justice for all, Vimes, yet what is it they really crave, deep in their hearts? Only that things go on as normal and tomorrow is pretty much like today.'
Also..please define normal
I do not believe that I am qualified to do that
Two loons don't make a normal "
Normally they don't but on fab they do lol |
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"
This really. We're a tribal species anyway but it's about power as well. Lets say there's a fact about life that inconveniences people, then there's a certain proportion of the inconvenienced predisposed to listen to any claptrap that gets them out of their inconvenience. In a democracy with a court of public opinion, all you really need are people to agree or synpathise with you in order to gain power.
All too true. For instance: many say that they want change. Alas, true change would bring about the inconvenience of a routine being disrupted.
One of my favourite quotes is from one of Terry Pratchetts Discworld novels, where the Patrician is imparting a bit of inciteful wisdom to Commander Vimes of The Watch. 'They think they want good government and justice for all, Vimes, yet what is it they really crave, deep in their hearts? Only that things go on as normal and tomorrow is pretty much like today.'
Also..please define normal
I do not believe that I am qualified to do that
Two loons don't make a normal
Normally they don't but on fab they do lol"
So we can be 'fab normal'
Yay!! |
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By *eliWoman
over a year ago
. |
I really like Sarah's answer above.
I don't understand why people do - it seems to be more prevalent on here recently than before. Or maybe it's confirmation bias.
I think quite often people choose to make it a personal attack. It does irritate me mildly when the realisation that a discussion can occur without people disliking another seems to be above some. I disagree with the words, not the person if that makes sense?
But it fits some narratives to continue seeing angst where there is none and I imagine that will continue for some time. *shrugs shoulders* |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I really like Sarah's answer above.
I don't understand why people do - it seems to be more prevalent on here recently than before. Or maybe it's confirmation bias.
I think quite often people choose to make it a personal attack. It does irritate me mildly when the realisation that a discussion can occur without people disliking another seems to be above some. I disagree with the words, not the person if that makes sense?
But it fits some narratives to continue seeing angst where there is none and I imagine that will continue for some time. *shrugs shoulders*"
Nods! I completely agree. |
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In interesting question as ever. There's not one simple and Sir as we're all so unique and have differing. Experiences.
Someone who takes things. Personally, when a neutral. Theme is discussed. Is expressing their? Insecurities and over-inflated ego. The world should revolve around them. In fact, it is then.
Insecurity and self esteem issues express themselves. In many ways and we all have knowledge of dealing with people like this. Some people also over identify with things that are not their core shelves - a kind of mixed-up hotch pot of identity, beliefs, attitude and what not.
Fragile, potentially lashing out at others when something seemingly trivial is discussed. Their behaviour is likely to reinforce their isolation and rigid beliefs, as their ego may appear different to their insecure self.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"In interesting question as ever. There's not one simple and Sir as we're all so unique and have differing. Experiences.
Someone who takes things. Personally, when a neutral. Theme is discussed. Is expressing their? Insecurities and over-inflated ego. The world should revolve around them. In fact, it is then.
Insecurity and self esteem issues express themselves. In many ways and we all have knowledge of dealing with people like this. Some people also over identify with things that are not their core shelves - a kind of mixed-up hotch pot of identity, beliefs, attitude and what not.
Fragile, potentially lashing out at others when something seemingly trivial is discussed. Their behaviour is likely to reinforce their isolation and rigid beliefs, as their ego may appear different to their insecure self.
"
Oh yes, totally. Often what people project is simply not what they're experiencing -- yes!
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I apologise for my written presentation earlier - tired eyes, so my sentences were a little disorganised.
It would be good to hear others thoughts - I'd not read all the replies when I posted. We've got a mix with a philosophical and psychological bent. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I apologise for my written presentation earlier - tired eyes, so my sentences were a little disorganised.
It would be good to hear others thoughts - I'd not read all the replies when I posted. We've got a mix with a philosophical and psychological bent."
.
Its a bit like school, sometimes we lash out at people we secretly admire or have a crush on.
That said, theres one guy just does my tits in |
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
Some people may take things personally because it's part of their personality/character to be that way but also it can be the classic fight or flight scenario. It's human nature to protect yourself. Some people can put forward a differing view point in a reasonable way but not everyone can and they can be deliberately antagonistic, aggressive, passive aggressive, rude and are goading people into reacting. Does this promote a better debate? Are you wrong in that case to be defensive? My point is that sometimes it's more about the approach than the disagreement. A comment can be made and taken personally after all so there needs to be ownership on both sides. My opinion is, if you want a reasonable, productive conversation or debate about something, consider your approach (both sides). |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"It's about status anxiety.
Research has shown a threat to someone's status is the same as a physical threat at a neurological level. "
i agree with this. we've created a lot of concepts that don't actually exist but they are believed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's about status anxiety.
Research has shown a threat to someone's status is the same as a physical threat at a neurological level.
i agree with this. we've created a lot of concepts that don't actually exist but they are believed."
Like morality? That doesn't seem to exist anymore. |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"It's about status anxiety.
Research has shown a threat to someone's status is the same as a physical threat at a neurological level.
i agree with this. we've created a lot of concepts that don't actually exist but they are believed.
Like morality? That doesn't seem to exist anymore."
exactly. it does not exist as we do not have a purpose so cannot have a morality that suits us. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Disagreements are one of the things I tend not to take personally. I have no idea why that is though. Maybe it's because I don't like confrontation so have figured out some subconscious strategy to let it go? |
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