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Greeks and Us Now
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Are genetics, culture and the way we were brought up - the reasons we need to categorise ourselves sexually .... example label ourselves bi, straight, TV etc - why can we not be like the Greeks where there was no orientation just enjoyment?
I understand labels aide us to identify ....I just wonder if we really need identification.....  |
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"Are genetics, culture and the way we were brought up - the reasons we need to categorise ourselves sexually .... example label ourselves bi, straight, TV etc - why can we not be like the Greeks where there was no orientation just enjoyment?
I understand labels aide us to identify ....I just wonder if we really need identification..... "
Really? |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"
I understand labels aide us to identify ....I just wonder if we really need identification..... "
To an extent, yes. Labels do help in certain situations to simplify the process of identifying with ones peers or subculture. Attaching a label onto a peer group or subculture can work to strengthen unity and togetherness within said group. |
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I think it's useful. I'm straight so people know I like women, Bun is bi so people know she is attracted to both.
Language is our most important skill, labels are words to describe things, without them we cannot describe anything. |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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sometimes i think labelling enforces stereotypes, when there are connotations. and i suspect some labels have never been needed except to implement connotations in the first place.
if people lived in a society where you just got to know each other and took things a lot slower then labels wouldn't really matter. like everyone starts off as an acquaintance or friend before you need to know anything more personal like their sexual orientation. |
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"sometimes i think labelling enforces stereotypes, when there are connotations. and i suspect some labels have never been needed except to implement connotations in the first place.
if people lived in a society where you just got to know each other and took things a lot slower then labels wouldn't really matter. like everyone starts off as an acquaintance or friend before you need to know anything more personal like their sexual orientation."
That's how life works. When i meet new colleagues at work they never say "hi, my name's John, I'm straight". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"sometimes i think labelling enforces stereotypes, when there are connotations. and i suspect some labels have never been needed except to implement connotations in the first place.
if people lived in a society where you just got to know each other and took things a lot slower then labels wouldn't really matter. like everyone starts off as an acquaintance or friend before you need to know anything more personal like their sexual orientation.
That's how life works. When i meet new colleagues at work they never say "hi, my name's John, I'm straight"."
.
Oh you work for the council hey!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"sometimes i think labelling enforces stereotypes, when there are connotations. and i suspect some labels have never been needed except to implement connotations in the first place.
if people lived in a society where you just got to know each other and took things a lot slower then labels wouldn't really matter. like everyone starts off as an acquaintance or friend before you need to know anything more personal like their sexual orientation.
That's how life works. When i meet new colleagues at work they never say "hi, my name's John, I'm straight"."
I was interviewing for a new housemate into our place once and the doorbell rang for the next person who'd scheduled to come round. I open the door and this guy throws his arms up in the air and says "Hello! I'm Robin, I'm gay!" whilst standing on the doorstep.
True story. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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But the ancient Greeks did have labels....they just labelled people by their sexual role rather than their sexual orientation (penetrator vs penetrated...that sort of thing). Is that really any better? In itself, that sort of labelling has societal implications...
Labelling is going to happen. It is generally helpful when dealing with humans and social interactions. I don't really understand people's problems with it. |
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"sometimes i think labelling enforces stereotypes, when there are connotations. and i suspect some labels have never been needed except to implement connotations in the first place.
if people lived in a society where you just got to know each other and took things a lot slower then labels wouldn't really matter. like everyone starts off as an acquaintance or friend before you need to know anything more personal like their sexual orientation.
That's how life works. When i meet new colleagues at work they never say "hi, my name's John, I'm straight".
I was interviewing for a new housemate into our place once and the doorbell rang for the next person who'd scheduled to come round. I open the door and this guy throws his arms up in the air and says "Hello! I'm Robin, I'm gay!" whilst standing on the doorstep.
True story. "
I hope you replied with "No fucking shit".  |
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"sometimes i think labelling enforces stereotypes, when there are connotations. and i suspect some labels have never been needed except to implement connotations in the first place.
if people lived in a society where you just got to know each other and took things a lot slower then labels wouldn't really matter. like everyone starts off as an acquaintance or friend before you need to know anything more personal like their sexual orientation.
That's how life works. When i meet new colleagues at work they never say "hi, my name's John, I'm straight"..
Oh you work for the council hey!
"
I don't get it? Are council workers renowned for not telling co-workers their sexual orientation upon meeting? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"sometimes i think labelling enforces stereotypes, when there are connotations. and i suspect some labels have never been needed except to implement connotations in the first place.
if people lived in a society where you just got to know each other and took things a lot slower then labels wouldn't really matter. like everyone starts off as an acquaintance or friend before you need to know anything more personal like their sexual orientation.
That's how life works. When i meet new colleagues at work they never say "hi, my name's John, I'm straight".
I was interviewing for a new housemate into our place once and the doorbell rang for the next person who'd scheduled to come round. I open the door and this guy throws his arms up in the air and says "Hello! I'm Robin, I'm gay!" whilst standing on the doorstep.
True story.
I hope you replied with "No fucking shit". "
I said "Bi bi" |
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"sometimes i think labelling enforces stereotypes, when there are connotations. and i suspect some labels have never been needed except to implement connotations in the first place.
if people lived in a society where you just got to know each other and took things a lot slower then labels wouldn't really matter. like everyone starts off as an acquaintance or friend before you need to know anything more personal like their sexual orientation.
That's how life works. When i meet new colleagues at work they never say "hi, my name's John, I'm straight".
I was interviewing for a new housemate into our place once and the doorbell rang for the next person who'd scheduled to come round. I open the door and this guy throws his arms up in the air and says "Hello! I'm Robin, I'm gay!" whilst standing on the doorstep.
True story.
I hope you replied with "No fucking shit".
I said "Bi bi""
 that's funny!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"sometimes i think labelling enforces stereotypes, when there are connotations. and i suspect some labels have never been needed except to implement connotations in the first place.
if people lived in a society where you just got to know each other and took things a lot slower then labels wouldn't really matter. like everyone starts off as an acquaintance or friend before you need to know anything more personal like their sexual orientation.
That's how life works. When i meet new colleagues at work they never say "hi, my name's John, I'm straight".
I was interviewing for a new housemate into our place once and the doorbell rang for the next person who'd scheduled to come round. I open the door and this guy throws his arms up in the air and says "Hello! I'm Robin, I'm gay!" whilst standing on the doorstep.
True story.
I hope you replied with "No fucking shit".
I said "Bi bi"
that's funny! "
Don't act so surprised. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"sometimes i think labelling enforces stereotypes, when there are connotations. and i suspect some labels have never been needed except to implement connotations in the first place.
if people lived in a society where you just got to know each other and took things a lot slower then labels wouldn't really matter. like everyone starts off as an acquaintance or friend before you need to know anything more personal like their sexual orientation.
That's how life works. When i meet new colleagues at work they never say "hi, my name's John, I'm straight"..
Oh you work for the council hey!
I don't get it? Are council workers renowned for not telling co-workers their sexual orientation upon meeting? "
.
The most pc bunch of fuckers you've ever met.
On my last job I was instantly given the nickname dougie dicklick.
I wouldn't mind so much but my name's not even Doug |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But the ancient Greeks did have labels....they just labelled people by their sexual role rather than their sexual orientation (penetrator vs penetrated...that sort of thing). Is that really any better? In itself, that sort of labelling has societal implications...
Labelling is going to happen. It is generally helpful when dealing with humans and social interactions. I don't really understand people's problems with it."
There's a lot to admire about the ancient Greeks. But other stuff, not so much.
And yes labels are helpful, but I try to draw a line when it comes to over doing it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But the ancient Greeks did have labels....they just labelled people by their sexual role rather than their sexual orientation (penetrator vs penetrated...that sort of thing). Is that really any better? In itself, that sort of labelling has societal implications...
Labelling is going to happen. It is generally helpful when dealing with humans and social interactions. I don't really understand people's problems with it.
There's a lot to admire about the ancient Greeks. But other stuff, not so much.
And yes labels are helpful, but I try to draw a line when it comes to over doing it. "
Yeah, my point is just that it isn't like the ancient Greeks had this great progressive attitude towards sex. They just found other ways to label and define their sexual relationships; that is to say, their society put stigma on other aspects of sexual interaction. It kind of indicates that the need to label, in some way, sexual relationships between humans is cross-cultural. Perhaps even basic to societal interactions.
And I agree that over doing the whole labeling thing isn't good. But then, I don't personally see a problem with labels in general. Someone who is homophobic is going to dislike sexual acts between people of the same sex whether you call those people gay, bi, straight , or nothing at all. |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"sometimes i think labelling enforces stereotypes, when there are connotations. and i suspect some labels have never been needed except to implement connotations in the first place.
if people lived in a society where you just got to know each other and took things a lot slower then labels wouldn't really matter. like everyone starts off as an acquaintance or friend before you need to know anything more personal like their sexual orientation.
That's how life works. When i meet new colleagues at work they never say "hi, my name's John, I'm straight"."
the label isn't needed coz you aren't at work to fuck other people. 
given me something to think about anyway. |
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"Are genetics, culture and the way we were brought up - the reasons we need to categorise ourselves sexually .... example label ourselves bi, straight, TV etc - why can we not be like the Greeks where there was no orientation just enjoyment?
I understand labels aide us to identify ....I just wonder if we really need identification..... "
apparently greeks are straight in summer and bi in winter |
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"
That's how life works. When i meet new colleagues at work they never say "hi, my name's John, I'm straight"."
But it might be handy if he used the label of IT guy, then you wouldn't need to beat around the bush subtley finding out if he knew anything about computers, or getting him trying every role until it became clear he was the IT guy...
If the label is derogatory fine, but if it enables whatever we are doing at the time to work, then surely they are a good thing? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
That's how life works. When i meet new colleagues at work they never say "hi, my name's John, I'm straight".
But it might be handy if he used the label of IT guy, then you wouldn't need to beat around the bush subtley finding out if he knew anything about computers, or getting him trying every role until it became clear he was the IT guy...
If the label is derogatory fine, but if it enables whatever we are doing at the time to work, then surely they are a good thing?"
I do get the analogy but how about this, a co worker is concerned about an employment issue, and is discussing it with others. The IT guy chips in with some advice. But he is ignored, as he's just the IT guy,even though he explains he knows what he's talking about due to being an experienced union representative. But he's still ignored, due to people only seeing the label of IT guy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Are genetics, culture and the way we were brought up - the reasons we need to categorise ourselves sexually .... example label ourselves bi, straight, TV etc - why can we not be like the Greeks where there was no orientation just enjoyment?
I understand labels aide us to identify ....I just wonder if we really need identification..... "
I'm laying on a Greek beach as I type this and I can see a few Greek ladies now who I wish would let me enjoy them. |
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"
That's how life works. When i meet new colleagues at work they never say "hi, my name's John, I'm straight".
But it might be handy if he used the label of IT guy, then you wouldn't need to beat around the bush subtley finding out if he knew anything about computers, or getting him trying every role until it became clear he was the IT guy...
If the label is derogatory fine, but if it enables whatever we are doing at the time to work, then surely they are a good thing?
I do get the analogy but how about this, a co worker is concerned about an employment issue, and is discussing it with others. The IT guy chips in with some advice. But he is ignored, as he's just the IT guy,even though he explains he knows what he's talking about due to being an experienced union representative. But he's still ignored, due to people only seeing the label of IT guy. "
Sure, it can have negatives too.
The very best analogy I can think is, imagine you were on a swinging site and were bi. You were interested in meeting other bi people. It would be a handy thing if there were some method of them indicating their sexuality and gender. I think that would be a cool way for people to initially locate people.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
That's how life works. When i meet new colleagues at work they never say "hi, my name's John, I'm straight".
But it might be handy if he used the label of IT guy, then you wouldn't need to beat around the bush subtley finding out if he knew anything about computers, or getting him trying every role until it became clear he was the IT guy...
If the label is derogatory fine, but if it enables whatever we are doing at the time to work, then surely they are a good thing?
I do get the analogy but how about this, a co worker is concerned about an employment issue, and is discussing it with others. The IT guy chips in with some advice. But he is ignored, as he's just the IT guy,even though he explains he knows what he's talking about due to being an experienced union representative. But he's still ignored, due to people only seeing the label of IT guy.
Sure, it can have negatives too.
The very best analogy I can think is, imagine you were on a swinging site and were bi. You were interested in meeting other bi people. It would be a handy thing if there were some method of them indicating their sexuality and gender. I think that would be a cool way for people to initially locate people. "
Just the response I expected, thanks |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Are genetics, culture and the way we were brought up - the reasons we need to categorise ourselves sexually .... example label ourselves bi, straight, TV etc - why can we not be like the Greeks where there was no orientation just enjoyment?
I understand labels aide us to identify ....I just wonder if we really need identification..... "
My understanding is that this worked well for the Greeks - and to some extent the Romans as they had a culture which embraced same sex relationships in men mainly, but also women, as a form of peerage and mentoring.
Some Greek city states took this to extremes, the Thebean sacred band of classical Greece was a fight Unit of adult males from the Polis all of whom were partners or lovers. They effectively believed you'd fight harder if your partner's survival was entwined with your battlefield prowess.
However as pre-modern Europe went from a Christian theology, to the enlightenment and industrial revolution, our forebears kept some of the backwards views on same sex intercourse for example.
As such they went from being illegal, social taboos, taboos which were more accepted, to simply a label to which you identify your preference, or preferences in partners.
Whether it is good or bad to use labels is an individual opinion I guess. My perception is that they help clarify when needed, eg, medical records, however they shouldn't be a social issue. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Oh boy.
First off, the common sexual portrayal of Greek culture is very generalised.
Secondly it's alot less fluid than most people expect. It's not like Classical or Archaic Athens was a free for all. There were different expectations and hang ups that related to both male and female relationships as well as intersex ones.
Lastly, if you're addressing a modern issue with labels. Then a contemporary Greek might take issue with you being uncomfortable with the practice of pederasty. A notoriously difficult idea that historians even (wrongly) try and ignore.
Just my two cents, but ancient society is more alien than most people understand. It gets complicated when you apply a modernist perspective to these sorts of issues. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh boy.
First off, the common sexual portrayal of Greek culture is very generalised.
Secondly it's alot less fluid than most people expect. It's not like Classical or Archaic Athens was a free for all. There were different expectations and hang ups that related to both male and female relationships as well as intersex ones.
Lastly, if you're addressing a modern issue with labels. Then a contemporary Greek might take issue with you being uncomfortable with the practice of pederasty. A notoriously difficult idea that historians even (wrongly) try and ignore.
Just my two cents, but ancient society is more alien than most people understand. It gets complicated when you apply a modernist perspective to these sorts of issues."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I absolutely dislike anchovies. I wouldn't even enter a supermarket where they didn't label the cans
- Mrs. J -"
i like polish and chinese shops, i can't read the labels for the most part and have to look at the pictures and what's inside to try and figure out if i'd like this new un known to me thing i've found some new likes this way |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I absolutely dislike anchovies. I wouldn't even enter a supermarket where they didn't label the cans
- Mrs. J -
i like polish and chinese shops, i can't read the labels for the most part and have to look at the pictures and what's inside to try and figure out if i'd like this new un known to me thing i've found some new likes this way "
Good for you
- Mrs. J - |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I absolutely dislike anchovies. I wouldn't even enter a supermarket where they didn't label the cans
- Mrs. J -
i like polish and chinese shops, i can't read the labels for the most part and have to look at the pictures and what's inside to try and figure out if i'd like this new un known to me thing i've found some new likes this way "
Love the idea .....x |
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