FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Clare's Law in the context of Fab

Clare's Law in the context of Fab

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

This story is being covered on the local news quite heavily.

Should it become a legal possibility for such searches to be carried out, do you think it's reach is right to extend as far as Fab (and other similar sites) and moreover do you think it has a place / valid use for such sites ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For anyone who hasn't heard of it :

Women could be given the right to know whether their partners have a history of violence under plans to be considered by the Government.

A campaign for the change will be launched on Monday with the support of police chiefs and Louise Casey, the Government's Victims Commissioner.

The proposal is being called Clare's Law in reference to Clare Wood, who was murdered in 2009. Ms Wood met George Appleton, her killer, via Facebook without being aware of his record of domestic violence against previous partners.

Appleton murdered her and set her body on fire before hanging himself.

The proposal, which is backed by Ms Wood's father Michael Brown, comes amid concern that women are increasingly meeting men via the internet with little or no knowledge of their pasts.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If a man has a history of violence then it's reasonable to assume he has a criminal record for it, and on that basis then yes, a woman should be able to run a routine check on a man she's just met or thinking of meeting.

But, it should also be extended to men too so they can run checks on women they are considering meeting.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *etillanteWoman over a year ago

But, it should also be extended to men too so they can run checks on women they are considering meeting."

Totally agree Wishy, women's violence to men is often forgotten

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

like so many laws only works if the person has been caught before and surely to would need the consent of the person you wanna check .theres bound to a fee too

plus everyone goes on about the dangers of meeting people from online but how many people of a weekend go out get d*unk and go home with a stranger

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *ojo1964Man over a year ago

Wolverhampton

But, it should also be extended to men too so they can run checks on women they are considering meeting.

Totally agree Wishy, women's violence to men is often forgotten"

I quite agree, when my ex-partner left me 18 months ago, she was often violent towards me and I'm in a wheelchair.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"like so many laws only works if the person has been caught before and surely to would need the consent of the person you wanna check .theres bound to a fee too

plus everyone goes on about the dangers of meeting people from online but how many people of a weekend go out get d*unk and go home with a stranger

It's not a catch-all solution, merely something offering women a means of performing a background check on a man she's thinking of developing a relationship with. If a woman meets a guy in a pub/club and goes home with him that same night then she's pretty much put herself in a potentially dangerous situation and the law can't help her if it turns nasty. If, however, she meets a guy, takes him name/number, and arranges to call or meet him a few days later then she can run such a check on him - if he's given the correct personal details that is, as the flaw I see in this system is that those guys who fall foul of it will soon learn not to divulge an identity that is likely to be on such a system. That's where it falls down.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *he tactile technicianMan over a year ago

the good lands, the bad lands, the any where you may want me lands

But, it should also be extended to men too so they can run checks on women they are considering meeting.

Totally agree Wishy, women's violence to men is often forgotten

I quite agree, when my ex-partner left me 18 months ago, she was often violent towards me and I'm in a wheelchair."

Do you think that being a disabled person Rob you should be exempt from domestic violence? Surely if we wish to be included in society we have to accept that we we're no different to anyone else and if shit is going to happen than so be it, so long as that shit isn't directed at us because of a disability.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But, it should also be extended to men too so they can run checks on women they are considering meeting.

Totally agree Wishy, women's violence to men is often forgotten

I quite agree, when my ex-partner left me 18 months ago, she was often violent towards me and I'm in a wheelchair.

That's a bit harsh isn't it. The way I read his post was that he wasn't accentuating the violence because he was in a wheelchair, he was giving an indication of the violent nature of his ex that she could bring herself to attack a disabled person. In any decent society we are taught that to attack those less able than oneself is the ultimate form of cowardice - or bullying to use the more common term these days.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No I think its a bad idea and a waste of police resources. Where does it all end? Checking out your teenage childrens mates incase they potentially carry knives or use drugs - or collueagues your partner brings home from work with a history of violence or thieving. Once you start suspecting every single person in your life you become afraid and lose your own gut instinct - which not always accurate is a million times better than a policve check and a lot better for your mental health. There are all sorts of crimes that we can become victims of non deserving more attention or laws than the other. Just my opinion.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I agree it has major flaws and holes in it. Nice idea but the execution and management of it is something else entirely.

But can you see a use for it on sites like this ?

Obviously for couples playing / club play etc it would be kind of irrelevant but I am thinking more along the lines of single women meeting individual men.

Is it the next step on the list of criteria that guys may be expected to meet prior to meeting someone.

Can it be extended to same sex relationships ? The amount of violence in same sex relationships is also an issue thanks to a double dose of 'alpha male' genes running around

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No sorry but I can't see it happening on this site. I think the attitude on this site is finding out for oneself. I don't even seriously consider verifications in my decisions and a lot of people are the same as me in that respect. You can't badmouth anyone on the forums or chatrooms I cannot see how the owners of this site could offer a check service without it being abused.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I once saw a woman on this site thinking of meeting a guy I had already met. I wrote to her and said he was vile and dirty and unkempt - she told me to mind my own effing business. I don't need to be told twice.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *rs Sugar Mr SpiceCouple over a year ago

We are about 15 mins outa Pontypridd and we do go to Crawley in west sussex 2-3 times a year so get in touch !!

Well i dissagree with this totally as people do change and its just a way to crimanalise or demonise ppl for shit they got up to in the past.

I was in a relationship for 14 1/2 yrs ,we got together wen she was 13 and i was 14 everything was great for the first two years then my ex started hitting me when it suited her so after a while of her bullying i thought fuck this shes a fucker back so this set in motion a violent relationship ov 14 yrs her being violent to me and me more so to her.

Anyways after 14 yrs of shit we both realised that we wernt boyfreind and girfreind we were more like brother and sister coz we fought like cat and dog and we realised we didnt like each other so we knocked it on the head .

Yes i was violent to her and yes ive a criminal record longer than id like to av and yes ive been to prison but thats life as they say shit happens,so we split in 2004 and i had 2 years of being a right slag ,yes alot ov BB sex so shoot me i was single and didnt give a toss coz at the time any hole was a goal lol and in 2006 i met Sugar but going on the concensus what ppl are saying is that a violent criminal will always be a violent criminal and realy speaking if all this backround checking was about then we mite not have got together when in actuall fact in my case sugar was a breath of fresh air and was another world away from what it was like living with my ex.

She couldent have been further away from the life ive lived with my ex and i would never dream of laying a finger on her ever and i never ever would as she is a brilliant and wonderfully caring, loving and gentle person who has given me 2 wonderfull children and who done me the honours ov marrying me last august.

Now ive been with sugar for nearly 6 years and we are overwelmingly happy and deeply in love. Ok we do av our arguments but thats all they are and they never ever come anywhere near close to me using any sort ov violence at all towards her so im living and walking proof that ppl do change given the chance and the right surcumstances which i didnt have with my ex and i recon it was because we were way to young when we got together thats why it transpired into what we had.

I was young ,foolish,care free and proper stupid then but now im a totally different person my wife and kids are my life and any violence in me now is focust on protecting my wife and family and never hurting them ever but this background checking is a breach ov civil rights if you ask me and its the same with job.

Ppl are being discriminated against because ov pinching summing or getting into a fight 10-20 yrs before and being convicted ov them crimes but the fact that they have not been in any sort ov trouble since then is being over looked never mind that they can do the job as sufficiantly and effectivly as somone without a criminal record so i dont appreciate being stigmatised because of what i done or was in the past.

I am different person now and when i think back to what i was like i cringe but i cant change it,we are all put in surcumstances in our lives which weve goto deal with in 1 way or the other and when things are bad all you can do is try and make that situation better or get out ov that situation but being judged on whats happened in the past is rediculus ,there are ppl out there who will never change but thats the minority but you cant penalise the magority because ov the minority that just isnt fair and morally wrong as ppl do change ,most ppl deserve a second chance and i for 1 took mine by the horns and made a happy life with it and you cant tell me im the only 1 as im sure millions ov others have done the same.....

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"No sorry but I can't see it happening on this site. I think the attitude on this site is finding out for oneself. I don't even seriously consider verifications in my decisions and a lot of people are the same as me in that respect. You can't badmouth anyone on the forums or chatrooms I cannot see how the owners of this site could offer a check service without it being abused."

I was thinking more along the (somewhat cynical lines) of people requesting it prior to a meet.

Quite rightly some people feel they need to trust a person prior to meeting and want any potential meets to go through a process for that trust to develop.

Are people going to start asking for details prior to meeting so that they can 'check out' potential meets ?

If other dating sites / social networking sites develop along the principles of Clare's law and Fab / other sex based sites don't, do they run the risk of sexually violent (or just violent) people migrating to sites such as this ?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Can I just say that I am neither advocating nor condemning this potential change in legislation.

I can see why some people will feel it is necessary and I can also see it's pitfalls.

I was more interested in if (and in what ways) people perceive it would affect sites such as this should it be passed and could some sites use it to their own (marketing) benefit ?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I can see your point - but is violence really rife on this site or any others like it? In my newspaper all the attacks and violence seem to happen on the streets after a night out in the pub..... where some young people go home with a person ten mins after a d*unken chat in a bar

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I can see your point - but is violence really rife on this site or any others like it? "

I don't think it is as a general rule but there will always be exceptions.

I think the law is intended for those looking at establishing a longer term relationship and as such doesn't have any real relevance here.

But, there is always a BUT !

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Men should also be able to check up on a womans' history too- like whether she's had abortions, what medication she's been on throughout her life etc. Then everyone will know where they stand and the guesswork and mystery of a new date will be a bygone worry.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *rs Sugar Mr SpiceCouple over a year ago

We are about 15 mins outa Pontypridd and we do go to Crawley in west sussex 2-3 times a year so get in touch !!

"I can see your point - but is violence really rife on this site or any others like it? In my newspaper all the attacks and violence seem to happen on the streets after a night out in the pub..... where some young people go home with a person ten mins after a d*unken chat in a bar"

Nope violence isnt the way forward at all it was the situation i was in and all the years i spent with my ex was piss poor but ppl get into a way of life wheras they know nothing else but being violent and the magority of peeps need a chance to get out ov it but when you mention young ppl then you go into knife crime ,gun crime, gang violence and general yobbish behaviour i think thats another debate because i agree the youth and young adults these days are frikking and they dont give a toss which is worrying

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Men should also be able to check up on a womans' history too- like whether she's had abortions, what medication she's been on throughout her life etc. Then everyone will know where they stand and the guesswork and mystery of a new date will be a bygone worry."

What on earth........

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago
Forum Mod

"No I think its a bad idea and a waste of police resources. Where does it all end? Checking out your teenage childrens mates incase they potentially carry knives or use drugs - or collueagues your partner brings home from work with a history of violence or thieving. Once you start suspecting every single person in your life you become afraid and lose your own gut instinct - which not always accurate is a million times better than a policve check and a lot better for your mental health. There are all sorts of crimes that we can become victims of non deserving more attention or laws than the other. Just my opinion."

I agree with this and with sugar and spice for saying that it would demonise people for mistakes made in the past,I really can't see how sites like this could make any good use of knowing about a persons criminal background,is anyone that signs up to a site like this really going to divulge the info that would allow checks to take place?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago
Forum Mod

tongue in cheek I hope

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *iamondsmiles.Woman over a year ago

little house on the praire

This was actually being proposed a few years ago. Do i think its a good idea then the answer is no.

People change, if someone had a "mad moment" 5 years ago should that then be held against them in the future.

Some women(including myself) go into relationships knowing that their partner has a background of violence.

This could also open a can of worms for many things

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You take risks when meeting anyone new for the first time - regardless of where or how you meet them. You could meet a guy in a bar say and get friendly and go out a few times and he is perfectly charming - but who says that is his real persona. You can only tell if you live with/get to know a person for a while as to what their true character is.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Have to agree. Life does not come with a guarantee of anything. But my point is evetyone always fears the worst and historically the worst rarely happens to the majority of people. If someone is this worried about the safety of life I think they have deeper trust issues for varying reasons which need to be adressed personally not by changing the law.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

tongue in cheek I hope

i dont think it was!! even so its a valid point in as far as where do you draw the line on what you can look for and research?? women as much as men have a perpensity towards violence or mental unstableness, have to say have seen the growth of violence of women on men increase massivly. Two of my best friends are police and on a friday or saturday night its the women causing alot more trouble these days!! men are stronger granted and do cause more domestic violence but the fastest growing violence domestic and otherwise is women, this is a fact. now i blame alcopops.

as for wether this law is good or bad im not sure if it saves one person then its a good thing!!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *rs Sugar Mr SpiceCouple over a year ago

We are about 15 mins outa Pontypridd and we do go to Crawley in west sussex 2-3 times a year so get in touch !!

tongue in cheek I hope

as for wether this law is good or bad im not sure if it saves one person then its a good thing!! "

But if it penalised ppl for what they done years before thats wrong espesially when theyve nt been in trouble since

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"But if it penalised ppl for what they done years before thats wrong espesially when theyve nt been in trouble since "

Leopards never change their spots. A man may not explode in violence for years but if he has a tendency to do so it is only a matter of time before he does.

The proposed new law is designed to allow women to check the background of a potential partner for a history of violence, and if it prevents just one woman from going on a date and remaining alive then it has to be a good thing.

We have credit ratings so that people who get in debt easily are restriced from doing so in the future. This is no different as it could be seen as a protection mechanism for not only the victim but the perpetrator too.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *he_original_poloWoman over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

I have not really read a great deal about the Clare’s Law proposal, but from what I have read it seems to be another knee-jerk ‘let’s do something to show we are doing something’ load of bollox.

As I understand it is to allow information about men with violent histories to be disclosed to concerned parties… primarily their female partner, though this may include former partners with concerns about their ex-wife’s new fella (though I am not totally clear on that one).

It came about after Clare Wood met some guy through facebook and he killed her. Would it have helped her? Probably not. She reported her new partner’s violent behaviour several times over a fairly long period prior to her death…. she didn’t need to see a report it was already happening and she chose to stay.

Will it have any bearing on sites like this…. not that I can see as it is about checking up on your “partner’s” past.

When does a person become a ‘partner’? Before the first date? After one date? After a month of dating? Or when you start taking on joint responsibilities for bills and accommodation?

If the information is available before any such joint commitments, will it encourage people to go on a fishing free for all…. employers, nosey neighbours, disgruntled ex lovers?

What counts as a violent history? Does it mean they must have been convicted?

Clare Wood reported her partner a number of times with no conviction taking place. The majority of domestic violence doesn’t even get as far as an arrest never mind a conviction.

Will they pass on information if it is only reported but there are no arrests…. will this encourage bitter and twisted betrayed/jilted lovers to go and make a few false reports.

I have a male relative who went out with gal who turned out to be a right mentalist-fruit-loop. On the night he dumped her she followed him into town and after telling her to piss off she decided to go and scuff her face and then ring the police and say he had assaulted her. Fortunately for him he had his mates and a number of independent witnesses… but it still didn’t stop the police from turning up at 3 in the morning to arrest him whilst they investigated the matter.

What I believe would help protect women (and men) from potentially violent partners is if they spent a bit more time getting to know their new partner before rushing to move in. If your teenage daughter (or son) met someone and within a month of their first date started packing to move in with them, I bet you’d tell them not to rush…. Yet it amazes me how many (so called) adults are on the phone to Pickfords without even seeing if they can stand 2 weeks away on holiday together.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

going back to mr sugarnspice's experience and wishy's somewhat opposing views, it will be interesting to see how this 'law' sits in regards to the rehabilitation of offenders regulations.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *ittlemorespiceCouple over a year ago

North Cornwall

I agree that if this saves one woman then it is worth it. It will state facts of where when etc and women will be able to make their own minds up with or without explanation from the guy. I really dont think that violence against women is ever excusable and part of the penalty to be paid is that the conviction is always there. A man can easily restrain a woman if she is being violent usually.

Of course, as to its practical application.... well thats another story.

Mistress x

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *iamondsmiles.Woman over a year ago

little house on the praire

Also how far back into someones past are they going to go. When i was in a violent relationship and the neighbours used to call the police the police couldnt do anything unless i pressed charges, i believe that has all changed now. I know that many many women/men that where in violent relationships wouldnt/didnt press charges.

So it would only work for those that had been tried and convicted which i believe is only a small percentage

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *ittlemorespiceCouple over a year ago

North Cornwall

"Well i dissagree with this totally as people do change and its just a way to crimanalise or demonise ppl for shit they got up to in the past.

By stating all this of this openly on the Forums havent you just done what you were disagreeing about? I mean, all and sundry are now free to read of your past convictions for violence. The law would just allow individuals you are intending to meet to access facts.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *he_original_poloWoman over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Far too many women die every year as a result of a violent partner (something like 2 per week)…. pretty much all of them knew their partner was violent before the final incident…. and no one needed to tell them, they knew from personal experience. So if their partner’s fist isn’t proof enough and reason for them to leave a relationship, what good will a bit of paper do?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *he_original_poloWoman over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

" The law would just allow individuals you are intending to meet to access facts.

Intending to meet? Does it? As I said I have not read a huge amount on this, but from what I have read implies you must alreay be in a 'partnership' of some sorts.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Will gay men be able to take advantage of this new ruling, or is this just another "women only" perk?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *eaboMan over a year ago

marden

wtf is going on with the society in which we live? Are we all taking on a victim, or seige mentality?

Yes bad things happen in life, i've been on the shitty end too. But to believe that everyone is a violent murderer/murderess before meeting them is unbelievable.

It may sound callous, and i'm an not minimalising anybody's bad experiences but statisticaly there is very little chance of being the victim of violence. We are led to believe it is worse than it is because of the number of crimes reported on the news. This site and indeed the whole social system works on trust, yet everything we, or some politician determined to make a name for themselves do undermines this trust.

We had a feudal system in this country, where people lived in fortified houses and didn't trust each other but it didn't work.

We need to assess risk for ourselves with experience and common sense, not assume that every stranger is going to attack or kill us. And as said before the real risks will not make themselves traceable so its an excercise in futility and paranoia.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Will gay men be able to take advantage of this new ruling, or is this just another "women only" perk?"

i raised that question before.

it is a valid point

violence does figure quite strongly in same sex partnerships especially amongst men, due to the alpha male influence that sometimes occurs

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Will gay men be able to take advantage of this new ruling, or is this just another "women only" perk?"

Having read up on the story it seems that at the moment it is nothing more than a proposal for MPs to discuss a new law permitting police databases to be opened up for information sharing. Nothing has been said about who will be subject to a background check, what constitutes a relationship, nor how long a person will be on the database or if they are considered rehabilitated can they apply to be removed from it.

At the moment is it just a proposal to discuss it, but you can rest assured that before it ever becomes law all the issues I mentioned above will have to have been addressed.

We live in a different world than 20, 30, 40 years ago and it's a part of life that people now use the internet for dating/sexual/relationship purposes and, if it is at all possible to 'vet' one's partner or potential partner then I see no reason why one shouldn't be permitted to.

We tell each other on here all the time to qualify our new playmates, to have a 'safe call' to meet publicly, we look at verifications to see if someone is a nutter or not, in short, we take as much reasonable care as we can to ensure our own safety. I see this proposed new law as an extension of that, but it is by no means comprehensive and we will always get cases like the one that has prompted it because some women will not do a background check, and therein lies her risk.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"But if it penalised ppl for what they done years before thats wrong espesially when theyve nt been in trouble since

Leopards never change their spots. A man may not explode in violence for years but if he has a tendency to do so it is only a matter of time before he does.

I agree with this, and excellent analogy!

Do I think it's a good idea? No. Would I use it? No!

I rely on my own judgement. There's no guarantee previous partners have filed a complaint. Besides, I know women who date violent men and men that have dozens of baby mammas but it doesn't put them off because he's "different" with them!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *he_original_poloWoman over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"..... but it is by no means comprehensive and we will always get cases like the one that has prompted it because some women will not do a background check, and therein lies her risk."

Not doing a background check is NOT the reason there will always be cases like the Clare Wood case....it's the NOT leaving when you have been punched in the face for the first/second/third/forth time which is why there will always be cases like this. Like the majority of women who die at the hands of a violent partner, Clare Wood already had first hand proof and the bruises to show for it. She reported her partner multiple times. Why on earth did she need a background check doing... she knew and stayed.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Personally, I trust my own instincts, as I believe one acts under pretence will always reverts to form in a matter of time.

It does not take much to set my alarm bells ringing.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Agreed, she should have got out. I clearly recall having this discussion on another site years ago and I was castigated for suggesting that a woman who stays with a violent partner can hardly blame anyone but herself when she gets belted about. Dozens of 'victims' jumped all over me saying things like 'we stay cos there is no way out, blah, blah, blah'.

Interestingly, I was reading a post by Kev on another thread that has a bearing on this discussion. He was asked for his surname and address by a potential meet - which he declined - so if we are to be wary of giving our full names and addresses to strangers how does this new law coincide with that?

Isn't it a catch-22 scenario?

You give name before I meet you

You dont give name to strangers

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"wtf is going on with the society in which we live? Are we all taking on a victim, or seige mentality?

Yes bad things happen in life, i've been on the shitty end too. But to believe that everyone is a violent murderer/murderess before meeting them is unbelievable.

We had a feudal system in this country, where people lived in fortified houses and didn't trust each other but it didn't work.

Thats what I said - but nowhere near as eloquently.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *urreyfun2008Man over a year ago

East Grinstead

Have I read it right it would be based on reports of violence, rather than convictions?

In which case false accusations, where proving it is false become a millstone.

Looking at it in a cold manner, this and other laws run the risk of creating under classes. For what of a better phrase the leppers of the 21st century.

Yes violence against others, no matter what sex is wrong, but things are getting a bit mad. Has violence increased vastly of late? I doubt it, human nature is a pretty slow moving beast.

Thought, how long before our internet browsing habits are linked into our police profile automatically. So that those who find pornography abhorrent can pre-check potential partners?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *umourCouple over a year ago

Rushden

"What I believe would help protect women (and men) from potentially violent partners is if they spent a bit more time getting to know their new partner before rushing to move in. If your teenage daughter (or son) met someone and within a month of their first date started packing to move in with them, I bet you’d tell them not to rush…. Yet it amazes me how many (so called) adults are on the phone to Pickfords without even seeing if they can stand 2 weeks away on holiday together.

Polo.. As usual you are a voice of reason and sense!

Reabo, well put too!

Seems we are approaching the "siege mentality" and pretty soon some are going to be to scared to go out! Although as Wishy said, life today is different from years ago, that is still no reason to tar everyone with the same brush.

This is like the rule British Airways brought in about 7 or 8 years ago. If a child was travelling alone, they were not allowed to sit next to an unaccompanied male

That made ALL men paedophiles without trial!

For those that say "if this saves one woman it will be worth it". Just how far would you accept your civil liberties be curbed before you start to shout?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *rs Sugar Mr SpiceCouple over a year ago

We are about 15 mins outa Pontypridd and we do go to Crawley in west sussex 2-3 times a year so get in touch !!

"But if it penalised ppl for what they done years before thats wrong espesially when theyve nt been in trouble since

Leopards never change their spots. A man may not explode in violence for years but if he has a tendency to do so it is only a matter of time before he does.

Dissagree with you totally by there Wishy ppl do change for the better ,not all but most and i think its very naive of you to state that lepoards will never change they spots because you can say that about recovering addicts and ex cons who do great work with kids .like ive said everyone deserves a chance and criminalising folk coz of they previouse convictions is realy sad,the beat goes on as they say

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *rs Sugar Mr SpiceCouple over a year ago

We are about 15 mins outa Pontypridd and we do go to Crawley in west sussex 2-3 times a year so get in touch !!

"Well i dissagree with this totally as people do change and its just a way to crimanalise or demonise ppl for shit they got up to in the past.

Nope ive got nothing to hide ,we dont go short of meets ppl think that im a great guy its totally up to them to make up they own minds its just the situation i was in at the time wich is the way i lived and i knew nothing else i feel very strongly bout this topic as men do get the worst end of it but myself on meeting sugar it completely changed my life and outlook on life and what i should and shouldent do to my wife im not condoning domestic violence at all but no 1 knows what goes on behind closed doors all im saying is that its a breach ov sivil rights ,if we all lived in the past there would be alot of peeps till alive so i say leave the past where it is as drejing it up does no 1 any favours but it is rediculous wen ppl say he was violent then hes violent now ,thats a load of BS tbh ,you cant tarnish ever1 with the same brush and ive put wat i put as an exaple to show that if i can change beleive me every1 can and ps ive no convictions for violence i just stated that i had been

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *urreyfun2008Man over a year ago

East Grinstead

This is the thing people do change, and a bad relationship when 18/19 could taint your life.

One can see this 'law' being used by parents of children's friends to 'vet' other parents before allowing sleep-overs, parties etc. So even where someone has changed and moved on, it may affect others many years later.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *rs Sugar Mr SpiceCouple over a year ago

We are about 15 mins outa Pontypridd and we do go to Crawley in west sussex 2-3 times a year so get in touch !!

"This is the thing people do change, and a bad relationship when 18/19 could taint your life.

Which i think is totally unfair coz as u and i and others have said ppl do change

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *ushroom7Man over a year ago

Bradford

But, it should also be extended to men too so they can run checks on women they are considering meeting.

Totally agree Wishy, women's violence to men is often forgotten"

Or even recorded?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *orestersCouple over a year ago

The Forest

Well, I think it's an excellent idea. Not only will it protect women from the possibility of violence, it'll also give them fantastic revenge ammunition should the guy ever dump her. She can "anonymously" give his boss all the details, tell all his friends, even post his past convictions on Twatter, Farcebook or MySpazz. The possibilities for sweet revenge are endless, and all provided for free by our luscious government. But I'm sure no woman would ever be spiteful enough to do that.

Mmmmmmmmm, nice

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Dissagree with you totally by there Wishy ppl do change for the better ,not all but most and i think its very naive of you to state that lepoards will never change they spots because you can say that about recovering addicts and ex cons who do great work with kids .like ive said everyone deserves a chance and criminalising folk coz of they previouse convictions is realy sad,the beat goes on as they say "

I haven't criminalised anyone. Criminals criminalise themselves when they commit a crime - hence the quite apt description.

You say you were in a relationship before where your ex used to hit you and eventually you decided to fight fire with fire and hit her back. Now you say you are in a loving relationship and would never dream of hurting your partner.

Let's go back to your ex for a second. When you started your relationship with her did you ever think you'd one day hit her?

Let's come back to your present relationship now, what if she did something in the future that you just couldn't handle. What if she hit you? Repeatedly perhaps?

I maintain that a leopard never changes it spots and if you've done it once the possibility to do it again is ever present no matter how much you may think you've suppressed it. The only way to say you're 'cured' is when, at the end of your life, you've never hit another woman.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but consider a rehabilitated murderer - is he/she still not a murderer and will always be classed as such? And always present a clear and present danger to society.

Ok, we're talking degrees of criminality here, but I've never found it neccessary to murder anyone, nor hit another human being since reaching adulthood (most of us have probably had a playground spat).

A partner gets one chance with me and one chance only. As soon as violence flares I'm gone, long gone, and for good.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But, it should also be extended to men too so they can run checks on women they are considering meeting.

Totally agree Wishy, women's violence to men is often forgotten

Or even recorded?"

Or even reported.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *rs Sugar Mr SpiceCouple over a year ago

We are about 15 mins outa Pontypridd and we do go to Crawley in west sussex 2-3 times a year so get in touch !!

I haven't criminalised anyone. Criminals criminalise themselves when they commit a crime - hence the quite apt description.

Let's go back to your ex for a second. When you started your relationship with her did you ever think you'd one day hit her?

Let's come back to your present relationship now, what if she did something in the future that you just couldn't handle. What if she hit you? Repeatedly perhaps?

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but consider a rehabilitated murderer - is he/she still not a murderer and will always be classed as such? And always present a clear and present danger to society.

A partner gets one chance with me and one chance only. As soon as violence flares I'm gone, long gone, and for good."

When i met my ex i was 14 and still a child with a childs mind and thoughts and no i never thought id hit her but through the ex hitting me i retaliated eventually coz you keep kicking a good dog that dog will bite in the end and i ended up hitting her back which was pathetic i know but thats is the way it continued for years and being so young you become accustom to the way it is and i go so far as to say it was normal at the time and i didnt know anything else and i thought that the way it was was the way it should be and thats how it was for 14 yrs till i met sugar and she showed me that lifes better and theres more to life than that crap,ive been with sugar for nearly 6 yrs now and married since august 2010 and theres not a 1 single time in them 6 years that ive ever though ov raising my hands to sugar coz like you she be gone in a shot,its all bout respect ,if you cant respect yourself how can you respect others which sugar showed me how to respect my self which lead to the up most respect i have for sugar so yes i would disagree ppl do change and mostly for the better and i can infatically say that ill never evey lay a hand on sugar as the girl is 1 in a million so in my case if im a leopard ,yes my spots have changed for the better ,they are still spots but different 1s with a diferent person its like we are living in a diff world nw a billion miles away from the world i was on then but id also like to say that my ex was the only woman that i had ever put my hands on ,there wernt 1 before or since it was just her but because ov 1 shitty relationship years ago does that only intitle me to a life ov lonleyness with out happyness because of that 1 relation ship and like i said earlier its like a C B R check ,should i not get the job coz i was a twat for a few years from 18 -24 and now im 36 is it right to be judged and penolised for what i done then instead of taking into account what i havent done since then ,i think its realy un fair

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *orestersCouple over a year ago

The Forest

"...snip...i think its realy un fair "

If you want fairness, chop off a leg, paint your face a darker hue, or get a sex change.

Welcome to 21st century Britain

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *ethany10Couple over a year ago

falkirk

Good on you mate for seeing the error of your ways and reforming. People in life, and on here, are too quick to judge in my opinion.well done for having the balls to relate this on the forums.

Steve

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

This is like the rule British Airways brought in about 7 or 8 years ago. If a child was travelling alone, they were not allowed to sit next to an unaccompanied male

That made ALL men paedophiles without trial!

actually this is a side consequence of another campaign..

Remember "sarah's law".....

what that ended up doing was everyone who worked with children had to be "CRB" checked.... but the original wording of the law was so strict it had to be changed...

for example, children use to be escorted on trains when travelling, but they can't anymore because everyone would need to be CRB checked...

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 18/07/11 16:40:17]

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

" like i said earlier its like a CRB check ,should i not get the job coz i was a twat for a few years from 18 -24 and now im 36 is it right to be judged and penolised for what i done then instead of taking into account what i havent done since then ,i think its realy un fair "

without knowing (or wishing to know) the details, have a look at this link and see if you can use it to help you in anyway

http://www.nacro.org.uk/data/files/nacro-2007021302-65.pdf

depending on what context you need it for, it may well provide you with some information which may be of use.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Metanoia..redemption..

Interesting thread with some cojones thrown in...

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This story is being covered on the local news quite heavily.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For anyone who hasn't heard of it :

Women could be given the right to know whether their partners have a history of violence under plans to be considered by the Government.

A campaign for the change will be launched on Monday with the support of police chiefs and Louise Casey, the Government's Victims Commissioner.

Appleton murdered her and set her body on fire before hanging himself.

The proposal, which is backed by Ms Wood's father Michael Brown, comes amid concern that women are increasingly meeting men via the internet with little or no knowledge of their pasts.

Um, not many people here are using their real names.

Besides, it's usually long term partners who are the abusers. We're told to beware of strangers, when paradoxically your friends and family, partner are more likely to cause those kinds of problems e.g. psychological, physical abuse.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Its a paradigm of fear...a fear based society writ large..

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"wtf is going on with the society in which we live? Are we all taking on a victim, or seige mentality?

Yes bad things happen in life, i've been on the shitty end too. But to believe that everyone is a violent murderer/murderess before meeting them is unbelievable.

We had a feudal system in this country, where people lived in fortified houses and didn't trust each other but it didn't work.

As a Chinese Philosopher once said:

"The more laws are promulgated, the more thieves and bandits there will be."

One time, before we were allowed to clean a school during the summer, we were told not to talk to the children. If we did, for any reason, we'd be fired. The assumption everybody is a paedophile until proven not so, is insane.

Governments, with extreme frequency, often terrorize the majority for the sake of minority. There's severe limit to what they can do without turning our country into a police state, and the sooner the people recognize it, the better.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The whole idea is flawed. But gives a government and a medois something else to scaremonger on.

Firstly, how the hell would it work? CRB checks take weeks and are costly but presumably the basis of that system is what would have to be used.

And even if it was practical to introduce such a system who would use it. Is anyone so paranoid that they would check every date/meet. Surely if your gut instinct is to check then something has set alarm bells ringing and you shouldn;t be meeting them again.

Lots of people meet online, be it sites like this, dating sites or just posting on a site regarding a mutual interest. There is virtually no stigma to meeting partners in that way any more, so for the vast amount of people it's fine and works. Like meeting people in any other way. So lets focus on the one case where it goes tragically wrong and create a pointles and unworkable law.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

the world is going crazy. whatever happened to fate and basing a relationship on chemistry with another person? where's the romance that goes when you first meet a potential partner?

someone mentioned earlier that violence doesn't occur on the first date or second etc and its not until commitments to get married/move into together are made that it rears its ugly head?

i think part of the problem stems from the fact that people are so keen to rush straight into relationships without getting to know them properly first, build up trust/friendship and learning about each other together.

okay not everyone wants to go out on their own in pursuit of a partner particularly after a divorce/break up and especially if kids are involved which makes it all the more difficult.so they talk to people on facebook or dating sites in the hope of meeting that someone.

life is about chances/choices - good and bad that is what makes us grow as people. we all make mistakes in life and learn from them, and much respect to spice for telling us his story. some have been shocked by what he has said, others have praised his honesty. it is this judgement and instinct we need to use and think about, not using some bloody law that would either create a generation of stalkers or never having relationships without a history check first!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

» Add a new message to this topic