FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Foreigners taking our jobs!!!
Foreigners taking our jobs!!!
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"They can have mine. It's going to destroy me. Anyway, who actually says that? " The great unwashed? | |||
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"I'm one of those pesky foreigners..I took your job now I'm after your (single) men! " and  | |||
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"Unfortunately, there are more than a few employers who have fobbed off foreign labour with low rates and reduced working conditions. As a result of thisto me British workers won't take these jobs any longer, sometimes due to the stagnating pay no longer covering Living costs or being perceived as little more than they'd receive on benefits. " But rates have been increased again beginning of April so that excuse is a futile one. | |||
"Unfortunately, there are more than a few employers who have fobbed off foreign labour with low rates and reduced working conditions. As a result of thisto me British workers won't take these jobs any longer, sometimes due to the stagnating pay no longer covering Living costs or being perceived as little more than they'd receive on benefits. " That is a fact 
Once over there was quite a few paid over the minimum wage for now skilled workers (who worked bloody hard) but now the minimum wage has gone up.....they have fail to keep up and just match the minimum wage....bloody shysters  | |||
"Unfortunately, there are more than a few employers who have fobbed off foreign labour with low rates and reduced working conditions. As a result of thisto me British workers won't take these jobs any longer, sometimes due to the stagnating pay no longer covering Living costs or being perceived as little more than they'd receive on benefits. But rates have been increased again beginning of April so that excuse is a futile one." Even with the increases the wages firms reluctantly pay is still minimal and in real terms have not gone up in 10 years. while bosses and owners pay has gone through the roof | |||
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"Unfortunately, there are more than a few employers who have fobbed off foreign labour with low rates and reduced working conditions. As a result of thisto me British workers won't take these jobs any longer, sometimes due to the stagnating pay no longer covering Living costs or being perceived as little more than they'd receive on benefits. But rates have been increased again beginning of April so that excuse is a futile one. Even with the increases the wages firms reluctantly pay is still minimal and in real terms have not gone up in 10 years. while bosses and owners pay has gone through the roof " Companies don't set wages, they pay the going rate of the market. The going rate of the market strongly correlates with productivity. If you increased your productivity but your wages didn't go up then it would create a fantastic opportunity to start a new company which could both pay it's workers more and be more profitable. Given how rare that is and knowing how resistant to change a lot of people are, i sincerely doubt there are that many underpaid people relative to their productivity. | |||
"Unfortunately, there are more than a few employers who have fobbed off foreign labour with low rates and reduced working conditions. As a result of thisto me British workers won't take these jobs any longer, sometimes due to the stagnating pay no longer covering Living costs or being perceived as little more than they'd receive on benefits. But rates have been increased again beginning of April so that excuse is a futile one." it's not futile at all,rents are increasing beyond any wage rises,zero hours contracts for example are a great way for bosses to keeping wages down regardless of the legal hourly minimum.. | |||
"Unfortunately, there are more than a few employers who have fobbed off foreign labour with low rates and reduced working conditions. As a result of thisto me British workers won't take these jobs any longer, sometimes due to the stagnating pay no longer covering Living costs or being perceived as little more than they'd receive on benefits. But rates have been increased again beginning of April so that excuse is a futile one." Ok then....what jobs are these that you've posted all over the Internet and jobcentres? Maybe some one on here may want to apply. | |||
"Unfortunately, there are more than a few employers who have fobbed off foreign labour with low rates and reduced working conditions. As a result of thisto me British workers won't take these jobs any longer, sometimes due to the stagnating pay no longer covering Living costs or being perceived as little more than they'd receive on benefits. But rates have been increased again beginning of April so that excuse is a futile one. Even with the increases the wages firms reluctantly pay is still minimal and in real terms have not gone up in 10 years. while bosses and owners pay has gone through the roof Companies don't set wages, they pay the going rate of the market. The going rate of the market strongly correlates with productivity. If you increased your productivity but your wages didn't go up then it would create a fantastic opportunity to start a new company which could both pay it's workers more and be more profitable. Given how rare that is and knowing how resistant to change a lot of people are, i sincerely doubt there are that many underpaid people relative to their productivity. " i can't agree at all..i think there are many many workers being pressured into doing more work for less money,with no job security whatsoever. | |||
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"Unfortunately, there are more than a few employers who have fobbed off foreign labour with low rates and reduced working conditions. As a result of thisto me British workers won't take these jobs any longer, sometimes due to the stagnating pay no longer covering Living costs or being perceived as little more than they'd receive on benefits. But rates have been increased again beginning of April so that excuse is a futile one. Even with the increases the wages firms reluctantly pay is still minimal and in real terms have not gone up in 10 years. while bosses and owners pay has gone through the roof Companies don't set wages, they pay the going rate of the market. The going rate of the market strongly correlates with productivity. If you increased your productivity but your wages didn't go up then it would create a fantastic opportunity to start a new company which could both pay it's workers more and be more profitable. Given how rare that is and knowing how resistant to change a lot of people are, i sincerely doubt there are that many underpaid people relative to their productivity. i can't agree at all..i think there are many many workers being pressured into doing more work for less money,with no job security whatsoever. " Well capitalism is the process of 'creative destruction' which, when you boil it down, is effectively the eternal question for better productivity. So there's nothing unusual about companies pressuring workers to get more out of them, it is to be expected. The prices of most things trend downwards over time so actually most people are getting a better standard of living even if wages stay the same. However i would recognise that there are a few key expenses where the market is dysfunctional and prices are going up not down (housing and energy). Interestingly they are the markets that politicians have some of the most influence in already. However a big part of housing is that just 2% of uk homes are over 4 storey blocks, compared to say 16% in france, 23% in Italy or 30% in spain. So as long as the voting British public collectively decide it's ghastly to have the beautiful sky line tainted then we have something of a problem on our hands because they don't seem all that keen on productivity improvements either. | |||
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"With most of my client base being "foreigners" I have huge respect for them. They don't any away from work and will put in the graft to make their businesses a success. Sadly the downside to this is offering their staff poor wages, long hours and sometimes terrible accommodation. Yes the foreigners will take any job going as it gives them money and offers them a better life than they would have back home. The British have too much pride for this, why take a job with those conditions when they can go to the job centre once a week and get their benefits. Sadly this is the world we live in, with the younger generations becoming lazy and not interested unless it will earn them big bucks. It really isn't hard to get a job when you put in the effort, finding a job you love is incredibly hard, and it seems unless it is a job They love, they aren't interested. I would rather work with foreigners than British and I'm not ashamed to say that " I'm not sure pride is the word i would use. Entitlement springs to mind more easily. Pride comes from providing for your family, not letting the government do that for you. | |||
"My blood boils each time I hear this. Have u tried to recruit lately??? I have been trying to recruit staff for weeks and can't get my quota. From Facebook to Twitter to job centre to company website . Look on your local Facebook see how many companies have vacancies . Sorry seems like ppl just don't want jobs . " I agree with you. I hope after brexit, all the scroungers will step up and fill the gaps in the workforce. | |||
"My blood boils each time I hear this. Have u tried to recruit lately??? I have been trying to recruit staff for weeks and can't get my quota. From Facebook to Twitter to job centre to company website . Look on your local Facebook see how many companies have vacancies . Sorry seems like ppl just don't want jobs . I agree with you. I hope after brexit, all the scroungers will step up and fill the gaps in the workforce." They didn't in 2005, 2006 or 2007. Unemployment stayed exactly the same. Nobody gave a fuck until 2008 when shit hit the fan. | |||
"My blood boils each time I hear this. Have u tried to recruit lately??? I have been trying to recruit staff for weeks and can't get my quota. From Facebook to Twitter to job centre to company website . Look on your local Facebook see how many companies have vacancies . Sorry seems like ppl just don't want jobs . " Look at it from another perspective. I was working full time till early January when I fell ill and due to working in Hotels, my illness went against me, so I moved home to recover. I was on ESA for 5 weeks, then JSA for another 7 weeks, during which I applied for almost 200 jobs, but received only two responses! I then got into work, outside of my comfort zone, near to home but it wasn't the best and left last week when an agency which has placed me before elsewhere, came up with a better offer. Not perfect, but better than the place I was working at, who are now screwing ne up with my salary. I'd love to better myself, but employers are just not interested in experienced mature managers these days. Where they are, the wages on offer aren't the best at times. | |||
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" .......during which I applied for almost 200 jobs, but received only two responses! I then got into work, outside of my comfort zone, near to home but it wasn't the best and left last week when an agency which has placed me before elsewhere, came up with a better offer. Not perfect, but better than the place I was working at, who are now screwing ne up with my salary. I'd love to better myself, but employers are just not interested in experienced mature managers these days. Where they are, the wages on offer aren't the best at times." I agree. As a mature person looking for a change in career, I am finding it extremely difficult to get anywhere. | |||
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"Can't get lads to come into the building trade either , all youngsters want to do is computers or sit on their arses & demand silly money to do nothing " And telling them they are shite and lazy is exactly the right way to win them over. Or maybe try modernising an industry that is bloody backwards and has not evolved since the 1980s. | |||
"Bloody Foriegner. Coming over here... wanting to know what love is."  | |||
"My blood boils each time I hear this. Have u tried to recruit lately??? I have been trying to recruit staff for weeks and can't get my quota. From Facebook to Twitter to job centre to company website . Look on your local Facebook see how many companies have vacancies . Sorry seems like ppl just don't want jobs . I agree with you. I hope after brexit, all the scroungers will step up and fill the gaps in the workforce." But Brexit won't change the number of people coming into the country. The largest number of non U.K. Citizens come from outside the EU and we already have control over them. It's not foreign people who are the problem. As soon as we can get our tiny little pea brains around that rather simple idea and stop acting like packs of apes in a jungle turning on the outlanders when we fuck our country up from the inside, the better we will all be. It's fucking primal the way we behave and we have no one to blame but ourselves if we cannot see some basic fucking facts and ignore the self serving divisive wankers who are trying to divide us for their profit. If we are unable to see that we don't deserve prosperity. | |||
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"Because the brits are to lazy, ask any farmer, why tgey woulnt hire them." You do enjoy chucking in the odd generalisation Shag,,,, | |||
"Because the brits are to lazy, ask any farmer, why tgey woulnt hire them." Farmers are generally arseholes though. Pleading poverty with a barns full of £150,000 John Deere tractors and whinging about British people being lazy fucks for not wanting to work for 3.75 an hour. That level of wage is only tenable if you live in a flat with many other people. Aka most of Laaandannn. | |||
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"Because the brits are to lazy, ask any farmer, why tgey woulnt hire them. Farmers are generally arseholes though. Pleading poverty with a barns full of £150,000 John Deere tractors and whinging about British people being lazy fucks for not wanting to work for 3.75 an hour. That level of wage is only tenable if you live in a flat with many other people. Aka most of Laaandannn. " But are you saying you want everyone to pay more their food so farm workers can have higher wages? | |||
"Because the brits are to lazy, ask any farmer, why tgey woulnt hire them. You do enjoy chucking in the odd generalisation Shag,,,, "For the most part it is true lol. | |||
"I'm one of those pesky foreigners..I took your job now I'm after your (single) men! "Pmsl
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"Because the brits are to lazy, ask any farmer, why tgey woulnt hire them. You do enjoy chucking in the odd generalisation Shag,,,, For the most part it is true lol."Shag ,,,,, as with all prejudicially sweeping statements they are seldom true..... | |||
"I work as a lorry driver and what seems to have happened in this industry is the East Europeans flooded the market with cheap labour. But now due to I believe falling standards companies are reviewing their ideas. Cheap labour can be expensive in the long run. Also wages have been held artificially low because there has been no need to raise them. Someone will always take the job though that does appear to be changing slowly as companies realise the false economy of employing poorly skilled labour that can't in many cases communicate with anyone other than their own country men. Companies that pay low wages and offer poor conditions will always struggle to recruit and retain staff. The better companies have a low turn over rate. Not implying that is the case with the OP. " Just out of interest, roughly percentage of your lorry driving colleagues believe they will be better off as a result of lower immigration (assuming brexit does what it says on the tin)? | |||
"Post Brexit there is a massive risk that we will have a skills storage and a lack of people in jobs that the British have historically been reluctant to do; agricultural labour and factory work I also have a friend who is struggling to find suitable people to fill an apprenticeship for his business that will lead to the person being a trained electrian and valve fitter. Everyone he has had is more interested in their phone than work. It's good prospects and judging by the cars his workforce drive he pays very well" I am one of the first people at work in the morning and one of the last to leave in the evening. Why? Because I am doing the work of two people. Why? Because they have been trying to find a second person without success since November. I have never claimed a penny in benefits and pay more tax than the average national wage. I work in the emerging technology sector and my work contributes to millions of earnings in foreign exchange in a company that pays a lot in tax as well as giving generously to the poor. | |||
"Because the brits are to lazy, ask any farmer, why tgey woulnt hire them. Farmers are generally arseholes though. Pleading poverty with a barns full of £150,000 John Deere tractors and whinging about British people being lazy fucks for not wanting to work for 3.75 an hour. That level of wage is only tenable if you live in a flat with many other people. Aka most of Laaandannn. But are you saying you want everyone to pay more their food so farm workers can have higher wages?" No. l'm saying lower the number of unskilled labour and the value increases organically. lt also elevates the role into that of a semi-skilled one.. lt used to be that way with bus loads of out of work steel workers from Sheffield who picked the veg. My dad did it too. Also, look at the amount of money that leaves the British economy just through foreigners sending money home, in the tens of billions..and often to outside the EU area too so we don't even feel the benefit from rubbing shoulders in the Euro area. lt's pretty staggering and debases any supposed benefit of mass unskilled labour. | |||
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"Nothing to do with foreigners here, more our attitude to work. When I finished my degree I was looking for work, I went to the job centre & applied for loads of jobs, I didn't get a single response from any of them. Then I got offered a PhD at uni so I took that. The funding then ended but I wasn't finished & I couldn't get any benefits other than basic jobseekers because I was a homeowner & student. Id rather have worked anyway so I took on whatever work I could, my week became a mixture of teaching classes, cleaning stairs & gutters & general labouring. Finally I got offered a part time contract working at the uni which covers my basic expenses. Point is, you just have to do whatever work there is at the time to get by, I couldn't rely on benefits so there I was, degree educated, scraping shit out of gutters. Someone had to do it, I needed the money. I don't get the attitude of "leave that to a foreigner" while also banging on about them taking our jobs. " | |||
"Because the brits are to lazy, ask any farmer, why tgey woulnt hire them. Farmers are generally arseholes though. Pleading poverty with a barns full of £150,000 John Deere tractors and whinging about British people being lazy fucks for not wanting to work for 3.75 an hour. That level of wage is only tenable if you live in a flat with many other people. Aka most of Laaandannn. But are you saying you want everyone to pay more their food so farm workers can have higher wages? No. l'm saying lower the number of unskilled labour and the value increases organically. lt also elevates the role into that of a semi-skilled one.. lt used to be that way with bus loads of out of work steel workers from Sheffield who picked the veg. My dad did it too. Also, look at the amount of money that leaves the British economy just through foreigners sending money home, in the tens of billions..and often to outside the EU area too so we don't even feel the benefit from rubbing shoulders in the Euro area. lt's pretty staggering and debases any supposed benefit of mass unskilled labour. " Without sounding pedantic, the price changes with supply and demand not the value. I don't really see how the job itself becomes semi skilled if less people do it either? I see it as an inherently low wage sector where jobs are automated whenever possible so wages cannot possibly rise much since it would then make sense for the farmer to buy another of those expensive john deere's | |||
"Because the brits are to lazy, ask any farmer, why tgey woulnt hire them. Farmers are generally arseholes though. Pleading poverty with a barns full of £150,000 John Deere tractors and whinging about British people being lazy fucks for not wanting to work for 3.75 an hour. That level of wage is only tenable if you live in a flat with many other people. Aka most of Laaandannn. But are you saying you want everyone to pay more their food so farm workers can have higher wages? No. l'm saying lower the number of unskilled labour and the value increases organically. lt also elevates the role into that of a semi-skilled one.. lt used to be that way with bus loads of out of work steel workers from Sheffield who picked the veg. My dad did it too. Also, look at the amount of money that leaves the British economy just through foreigners sending money home, in the tens of billions..and often to outside the EU area too so we don't even feel the benefit from rubbing shoulders in the Euro area. lt's pretty staggering and debases any supposed benefit of mass unskilled labour. Without sounding pedantic, the price changes with supply and demand not the value. I don't really see how the job itself becomes semi skilled if less people do it either? I see it as an inherently low wage sector where jobs are automated whenever possible so wages cannot possibly rise much since it would then make sense for the farmer to buy another of those expensive john deere's " The price is what someone is willing to pay and the value is the gambling consensus of the market. You do know what l was meaning The semantics don't dilute the point. Because when a job becomes more niche, the list of responsibility often grows in direct proportion to the rarity of said job. This is why farming can be skilled and unskilled. Hi-Tech Hydroponic growing in the Netherlands or Franks Smith the farmer who employs the KGB to pick his totties for 50p an hour is not the same thing. Which do you think is the more productive? | |||
"Because the brits are to lazy, ask any farmer, why tgey woulnt hire them. You do enjoy chucking in the odd generalisation Shag,,,, For the most part it is true lol.
Shag ,,,,, as with all prejudicially sweeping statements they are seldom true....."There is a reason why its called benefit britain tho. | |||
"Because the brits are to lazy, ask any farmer, why tgey woulnt hire them. You do enjoy chucking in the odd generalisation Shag,,,, For the most part it is true lol.
Shag ,,,,, as with all prejudicially sweeping statements they are seldom true.....There is a reason why its called benefit britain tho."I've never heard that before  | |||
"Because the brits are to lazy, ask any farmer, why tgey woulnt hire them. You do enjoy chucking in the odd generalisation Shag,,,, For the most part it is true lol.
Shag ,,,,, as with all prejudicially sweeping statements they are seldom true.....There is a reason why its called benefit britain tho."Shag you seem to be going off on a bit of tangent there good-buddy..... Benefit system is an entirely different topic to none indigenous work ethic .... But hey you enjoy rest of the thread I need to jump out of this one......... | |||
"Because the brits are to lazy, ask any farmer, why tgey woulnt hire them. You do enjoy chucking in the odd generalisation Shag,,,, For the most part it is true lol.
Shag ,,,,, as with all prejudicially sweeping statements they are seldom true.....There is a reason why its called benefit britain tho.
Shag you seem to be going off on a bit of tangent there good-buddy.....
Benefit system is an entirely different topic to none indigenous work ethic ....
But hey you enjoy rest of the thread I need to jump out of this one.........
"It kinda goes hand in hand, but yes it is abit of a different topic. | |||
"Because the brits are to lazy, ask any farmer, why tgey woulnt hire them. You do enjoy chucking in the odd generalisation Shag,,,, For the most part it is true lol.
Shag ,,,,, as with all prejudicially sweeping statements they are seldom true.....There is a reason why its called benefit britain tho.
I've never heard that before "lol. | |||
"I work as a lorry driver and what seems to have happened in this industry is the East Europeans flooded the market with cheap labour. But now due to I believe falling standards companies are reviewing their ideas. Cheap labour can be expensive in the long run. Also wages have been held artificially low because there has been no need to raise them. Someone will always take the job though that does appear to be changing slowly as companies realise the false economy of employing poorly skilled labour that can't in many cases communicate with anyone other than their own country men. Companies that pay low wages and offer poor conditions will always struggle to recruit and retain staff. The better companies have a low turn over rate. Not implying that is the case with the OP. Just out of interest, roughly percentage of your lorry driving colleagues believe they will be better off as a result of lower immigration (assuming brexit does what it says on the tin)? " No idea I've never asked the question. Seeing as those already here will be given permission to stay I don't see how brexit will make a lot of difference. | |||
"The company I work for pay £10 per hour minimum with training. I have seen young British workers come and go - the majority don't want to work a 12 hour shift even though the money is fair based on a 42 hour week. To be fair I wouldn't want to do it either - but then I'm not so young anymore! More and more people from other countries are coming in that aren't work shy. If it was my company I know who I would want to employ! Sad but true! " I work 35 hour week but I wouldn't work a 12 hour shift, no way. I get paid very well for the job I do. For me I used to work 12 hour days when I should have only been doing 9 hours (inc 1 for lunch) - now it's 7 hours a day and leave dead on time | |||
"My blood boils each time I hear this. Have u tried to recruit lately??? I have been trying to recruit staff for weeks and can't get my quota. From Facebook to Twitter to job centre to company website . Look on your local Facebook see how many companies have vacancies . Sorry seems like ppl just don't want jobs . " I'd send them all back home | |||
"I work as a lorry driver and what seems to have happened in this industry is the East Europeans flooded the market with cheap labour. But now due to I believe falling standards companies are reviewing their ideas. Cheap labour can be expensive in the long run. Also wages have been held artificially low because there has been no need to raise them. Someone will always take the job though that does appear to be changing slowly as companies realise the false economy of employing poorly skilled labour that can't in many cases communicate with anyone other than their own country men. Companies that pay low wages and offer poor conditions will always struggle to recruit and retain staff. The better companies have a low turn over rate. Not implying that is the case with the OP. Just out of interest, roughly percentage of your lorry driving colleagues believe they will be better off as a result of lower immigration (assuming brexit does what it says on the tin)? No idea I've never asked the question. Seeing as those already here will be given permission to stay I don't see how brexit will make a lot of difference." Someone people expected eastern Europeans to leave the day after the referendum, not saying your colleagues did though | |||
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"My blood boils each time I hear this. Have u tried to recruit lately??? I have been trying to recruit staff for weeks and can't get my quota. From Facebook to Twitter to job centre to company website . Look on your local Facebook see how many companies have vacancies . Sorry seems like ppl just don't want jobs . I'd send them all back home" They are home | |||
" They are home " OMG we finally agree on something ... I'm going for a lay down | |||
"I work as a lorry driver and what seems to have happened in this industry is the East Europeans flooded the market with cheap labour. But now due to I believe falling standards companies are reviewing their ideas. Cheap labour can be expensive in the long run. Also wages have been held artificially low because there has been no need to raise them. Someone will always take the job though that does appear to be changing slowly as companies realise the false economy of employing poorly skilled labour that can't in many cases communicate with anyone other than their own country men. Companies that pay low wages and offer poor conditions will always struggle to recruit and retain staff. The better companies have a low turn over rate. Not implying that is the case with the OP. " The reason there are a lot of foreign drivers is because there is a shortage of British drivers. Companies then offer these overseas drivers less than the going rate. So it's not the foreign drivers undercutting British drivers its companies taking advantage of the system | |||
"Let's put it an easier way ....why is someone getting on average £26 k in benefits ..going to work for £14k ?.....the chances are some don't have the intelligence to do a job that pays 26k ...."
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"Let's put it an easier way ....why is someone getting on average £26 k in benefits ..going to work for £14k ?.....the chances are some don't have the intelligence to do a job that pays 26k ....
"Self respect? Pride? To actually be a man and provide for your family rather than letting the government do it for you. Because daytime TV is shite. There are a few reasons... | |||
"My blood boils each time I hear this. Have u tried to recruit lately??? I have been trying to recruit staff for weeks and can't get my quota. From Facebook to Twitter to job centre to company website . Look on your local Facebook see how many companies have vacancies . Sorry seems like ppl just don't want jobs . " make it clear on your advert that this a real full time permanent job and the applications will flood in believe me most people using job sites etc are fed up wit seeing the same jobs advertised over and over again applying to then find the job doesent actualy exist but is in fact an agency that can " get you work " yeah for min wage crap hours with no rights or security tired of the come in on 13 weeks temp to perm and theres a job at the end of it guess what happens at 12 weeks yep "oh we dont need you anymore youve done realy well but sorry going to have to let you go sorry " only to see them advertising for another bunch of mugs to do the same thing again . | |||
"I work as a lorry driver and what seems to have happened in this industry is the East Europeans flooded the market with cheap labour. But now due to I believe falling standards companies are reviewing their ideas. Cheap labour can be expensive in the long run. Also wages have been held artificially low because there has been no need to raise them. Someone will always take the job though that does appear to be changing slowly as companies realise the false economy of employing poorly skilled labour that can't in many cases communicate with anyone other than their own country men. Companies that pay low wages and offer poor conditions will always struggle to recruit and retain staff. The better companies have a low turn over rate. Not implying that is the case with the OP. .... " | |||
"I watched a programme once about this and the TV crew were outside the job centre offering people jobs picking in a field (think it was in Norfolk somewhere) and all the English people said 'nah mate... Give it to the Polish'. Seems that some of those looking for jobs are scared of a hard day's graft. I'd do anything as a job. When I was made redundant a few years ago I was straight to the agencies saying I'd do any temp job they had going rather than sign on. Luckily I was only with them a few weeks before I was placed where I work now and was made permanent staff within a year (would have been sooner but their personnel department were shocking lol) " i remember watching that exact programme... which also kinda exposes a dirty truth which is that a lot of the time those "foreign" people do the job that the british people don't want to do... or feel is beneath them.... I do a little sideline 2nd job working as a takeaway delivery driver and they are always looking for people.... i don't do it as often now as i use to (car and mortgage now paid off) but you see british people try it and leave after only a couple of weeks.... | |||
"I'm still amazed that all these foreigners can simultaneously take our jobs and also do nothing and claim all our benefits! Unfortunately I've heard both of these things from people I work with and also people I once considered friends, and it's sad that this attitude has resulted in this country carrying out an immense act of self harm." | |||
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"I watched a programme once about this and the TV crew were outside the job centre offering people jobs picking in a field (think it was in Norfolk somewhere) and all the English people said 'nah mate... Give it to the Polish'. Seems that some of those looking for jobs are scared of a hard day's graft. I'd do anything as a job. When I was made redundant a few years ago I was straight to the agencies saying I'd do any temp job they had going rather than sign on. Luckily I was only with them a few weeks before I was placed where I work now and was made permanent staff within a year (would have been sooner but their personnel department were shocking lol) i remember watching that exact programme... which also kinda exposes a dirty truth which is that a lot of the time those "foreign" people do the job that the british people don't want to do... or feel is beneath them.... I do a little sideline 2nd job working as a takeaway delivery driver and they are always looking for people.... i don't do it as often now as i use to (car and mortgage now paid off) but you see british people try it and leave after only a couple of weeks...." . That's clearly not true!. I mean you've stuck at it? | |||
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"The worst are those foreigners who come in your country and shag your wives ! " Especially them French fuckers. | |||
"The worst are those foreigners who come in your country and shag your wives ! Especially them French fuckers. " Fuck yeah ! | |||
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"Has anybody not noticed that the British worker is demonised...All to give the illusion that we need foreign workers to do our jobs... Our young folk cannot get work due to business employing cheap labour from eastern europe..." I agree, I’ve not noticed that. | |||
"Has anybody not noticed that the British worker is demonised...All to give the illusion that we need foreign workers to do our jobs... Our young folk cannot get work due to business employing cheap labour from eastern europe..." I've got three teenagers in my circle, all of them have got cheap labour work (restaurants and shops) with no trouble at all. Mind you, they went looking for them, going door to door with their CVs and agreeing to unpaid trial days. Their friends have done the same. I haven't noticed them being demonised. | |||
"The worst are those foreigners who come in your country and shag your wives ! Especially them French fuckers. " . They've never forgiven us for Agincourt.... Or Napoleon.... Or saving them from the Nazis!! | |||
"There are a lot of foreign (mainly Eastern European) workers in my industry sector. If I was to generalise, they do work hard. However, I know many who are scrimping by to save for a (cheap) property to retire early to in their home countries, which is fair enough of them, but I think the disillusionment of British workers is that they can't aspire to that because wages are never enough to get on the property ladder (although there are some cracking jobs out there with tied houses). I've seen young British workers totally unprepared for the graft that goes in, even though they have been to ag college, and I think in many cases their further education is failing them by not preparing them for work. They often leave because they can earn the same money in a supermarket and it's much less stressful and I'm honestly not sure who the mug actually is, having now spent a long career working for shit money that often leaves you beat up and tired....." Good points. I'd work to retire early too if I could. And a less stressful job but better quality of health- I'd choose that. | |||
"Has anybody not noticed that the British worker is demonised...All to give the illusion that we need foreign workers to do our jobs... Our young folk cannot get work due to business employing cheap labour from eastern europe... I've got three teenagers in my circle, all of them have got cheap labour work (restaurants and shops) with no trouble at all. Mind you, they went looking for them, going door to door with their CVs and agreeing to unpaid trial days. Their friends have done the same. I haven't noticed them being demonised." . You want to read through this thread then.... It's none stop with hate and bile over British workers and especially young British people. | |||
"My blood boils each time I hear this. Have u tried to recruit lately??? I have been trying to recruit staff for weeks and can't get my quota. From Facebook to Twitter to job centre to company website . Look on your local Facebook see how many companies have vacancies . Sorry seems like ppl just don't want jobs . " My brother is struggling to fill 7 vacancies, of the 5 he has start in the last 6 months all have left claiming it's too hard. | |||
"My blood boils each time I hear this. Have u tried to recruit lately??? I have been trying to recruit staff for weeks and can't get my quota. From Facebook to Twitter to job centre to company website . Look on your local Facebook see how many companies have vacancies . Sorry seems like ppl just don't want jobs . " Perhaps it’s not a good job and / or pay is rubbish? | |||
"My blood boils each time I hear this. Have u tried to recruit lately??? I have been trying to recruit staff for weeks and can't get my quota. From Facebook to Twitter to job centre to company website . Look on your local Facebook see how many companies have vacancies . Sorry seems like ppl just don't want jobs . I agree with you. I hope after brexit, all the scroungers will step up and fill the gaps in the workforce. But Brexit won't change the number of people coming into the country. The largest number of non U.K. Citizens come from outside the EU and we already have control over them. It's not foreign people who are the problem. As soon as we can get our tiny little pea brains around that rather simple idea and stop acting like packs of apes in a jungle turning on the outlanders when we fuck our country up from the inside, the better we will all be. It's fucking primal the way we behave and we have no one to blame but ourselves if we cannot see some basic fucking facts and ignore the self serving divisive wankers who are trying to divide us for their profit. If we are unable to see that we don't deserve prosperity. " After brexit comes into play, a lot of EU workers will go back home. I spoke to a lot of eastern Europeans that work I Gatwick, they are all going home when brexit gets sorted. So there will be a shortage of workers in the aviation industry, but I know for a fact that very few people want to work there. There shifts are not that friendly, the work is hard going, the time constraints are tight. I saw loads of UK lads come and leave during the 2 week induction, as they didn't like the hours, the work or the money isnt enough for them. | |||
"My blood boils each time I hear this. Have u tried to recruit lately??? I have been trying to recruit staff for weeks and can't get my quota. From Facebook to Twitter to job centre to company website . Look on your local Facebook see how many companies have vacancies . Sorry seems like ppl just don't want jobs . My brother is struggling to fill 7 vacancies, of the 5 he has start in the last 6 months all have left claiming it's too hard. " . To hard for the pay you mean?. There's thousands of really hard jobs that people don't leave because the pays good, bad paying hard jobs are a different kettle of fish | |||
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"I work as a lorry driver and what seems to have happened in this industry is the East Europeans flooded the market with cheap labour. But now due to I believe falling standards companies are reviewing their ideas. Cheap labour can be expensive in the long run. Also wages have been held artificially low because there has been no need to raise them. Someone will always take the job though that does appear to be changing slowly as companies realise the false economy of employing poorly skilled labour that can't in many cases communicate with anyone other than their own country men. Companies that pay low wages and offer poor conditions will always struggle to recruit and retain staff. The better companies have a low turn over rate. Not implying that is the case with the OP. The reason there are a lot of foreign drivers is because there is a shortage of British drivers. Companies then offer these overseas drivers less than the going rate. So it's not the foreign drivers undercutting British drivers its companies taking advantage of the system" Sorry that's a common misconception. There is no shortage of HGV drivers, there may be a shortage of good drivers but that is a different matter. If there is a shortage of drivers where are the fleets of lorries parked? I haven't seen them. Where are the empty shelves in shops? Again I haven't seen them. Where are the manufacturers complaining they can't move goods or get raw materials delivered? I've not seen or heard them either. Ever heard of supply and demand? If something is in short supply and there is a demand for it the price goes up. Funny how drivers wages in real terms have not risen for 10-15 years! I'll tell you who says there is a driver shortage. It's the companies that pay poorly and or have poor terms and conditions, oh what a surprise they struggle to recruit drivers. It's also the large training organisations or other companies that are paid by the government to run driver training programmes. It's in their interest to claim there is a shortage. | |||
"I'm one of those pesky foreigners..I took your job now I'm after your (single) men! " | |||
"i've heard plenty of people inferring it on here as well as elsewhere.. in my jobs it's about 75% non-british workers,when we do get any english ones,if theyre under 40 they barely see out a month before collapsing under the strain of having to do any work. They may be very nice, but they have minimal skills, and my job isn't brain surgery!..they can't cook, can't shop sensibly...i've had to show a 23 yr old how to put on a duvet cover because 'my mum always does it'...it's a bit shameful really.." You may wanna leave the country immediately lol | |||
"Bloody Foreigner - coming over here and demanding to know what love is !" Or bloody immigrants!! They come over here and without proper grasp of the language, “culture” & local knowledge taking our jobs!!
I’m leaving the country immediately lol | |||
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"I work as a recruiter and I see both sides here. We struggle to find British candidates that will do lower paid work (min wage etc) and those that do start the jobs call in sick and stop showing up usually in the first couple of weeks. The foreign candidates have to be reminded to use holidays etc. On the other hand, when it comes to higher paid, more technical roles, foriegn people get overlooked all the time, with companies preferring a native speaker. I agree that we have a huge attitude problem towards work with a sense of entitlement and it’s massively frustrating! " Maybe because they can't live on the low paid jobs' salary. | |||
"They can have mine. It's going to destroy me. Anyway, who actually says that? " People stuck in the 70s say it. | |||
"Those immigrant workers are getting ideas above their station now and don't want the agricultural picking jobs, preferring a better paid job back home. Now what do we do?" Better think of something soon lol | |||
"I work as a recruiter and I see both sides here. We struggle to find British candidates that will do lower paid work (min wage etc) and those that do start the jobs call in sick and stop showing up usually in the first couple of weeks. The foreign candidates have to be reminded to use holidays etc. On the other hand, when it comes to higher paid, more technical roles, foriegn people get overlooked all the time, with companies preferring a native speaker. I agree that we have a huge attitude problem towards work with a sense of entitlement and it’s massively frustrating! " It's probably because you can't afford to live on minimum wage. I don't reckon I could covet my basic bills on less than £10/h. | |||
"You need to fear the robots " It's funny - you never hear "fucking robots, taking our jobs!" and yet this is probably far more prevalent. They've got a few of these shiny new logistics place round my way, all automated to the hilt, massive great things they are that probably would have employed 3-400 people once upon a time. Now there are a couple of dozen. And robots don't pay any tax... Kinda makes me wonder if the whole Basic Income thing is nigh-on inevitable...what is it they say - "there is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come" | |||
"Has anybody not noticed that the British worker is demonised...All to give the illusion that we need foreign workers to do our jobs... Our young folk cannot get work due to business employing cheap labour from eastern europe... I've got three teenagers in my circle, all of them have got cheap labour work (restaurants and shops) with no trouble at all. Mind you, they went looking for them, going door to door with their CVs and agreeing to unpaid trial days. Their friends have done the same. I haven't noticed them being demonised.. You want to read through this thread then.... It's none stop with hate and bile over British workers and especially young British people. " Seems more like people discussing their first-hand experiences rather than demonising if you ask me... I'm not sure how much exposure you've had to the youth of today, but having taught in a further education college, training predominantly 16-19 year olds how to be electricians, I can safely say in my experience that the vast majority of them are not what employers are looking for. Too lazy, disinterested and stoned and nowhere near reliable enough or willing to get their hands dirty. I even had one lad skive off lessons because he got his trainers a little bit dirty and "Had to go and get them dry-cleaned" - I shit you not, he was nearly in tears. I swear, if there was another great war and we had to rely on that generation to go and fight for us, we may as well give up now. Barely any motivation, discipline or backbone between them | |||
"Has anybody not noticed that the British worker is demonised...All to give the illusion that we need foreign workers to do our jobs... Our young folk cannot get work due to business employing cheap labour from eastern europe... I've got three teenagers in my circle, all of them have got cheap labour work (restaurants and shops) with no trouble at all. Mind you, they went looking for them, going door to door with their CVs and agreeing to unpaid trial days. Their friends have done the same. I haven't noticed them being demonised.. You want to read through this thread then.... It's none stop with hate and bile over British workers and especially young British people. Seems more like people discussing their first-hand experiences rather than demonising if you ask me... I'm not sure how much exposure you've had to the youth of today, but having taught in a further education college, training predominantly 16-19 year olds how to be electricians, I can safely say in my experience that the vast majority of them are not what employers are looking for. Too lazy, disinterested and stoned and nowhere near reliable enough or willing to get their hands dirty. I even had one lad skive off lessons because he got his trainers a little bit dirty and "Had to go and get them dry-cleaned" - I shit you not, he was nearly in tears. I swear, if there was another great war and we had to rely on that generation to go and fight for us, we may as well give up now. Barely any motivation, discipline or backbone between them" That's more a cultural problem though, for a long time the culture has seen university as the only decent destination and jobs like electricians are for the 'also ran' types as opposed to being considered a desirable career choice in it's own right. You're not seeing a representative sample of the youth today. | |||
"Has anybody not noticed that the British worker is demonised...All to give the illusion that we need foreign workers to do our jobs... Our young folk cannot get work due to business employing cheap labour from eastern europe... I've got three teenagers in my circle, all of them have got cheap labour work (restaurants and shops) with no trouble at all. Mind you, they went looking for them, going door to door with their CVs and agreeing to unpaid trial days. Their friends have done the same. I haven't noticed them being demonised.. You want to read through this thread then.... It's none stop with hate and bile over British workers and especially young British people. Seems more like people discussing their first-hand experiences rather than demonising if you ask me... I'm not sure how much exposure you've had to the youth of today, but having taught in a further education college, training predominantly 16-19 year olds how to be electricians, I can safely say in my experience that the vast majority of them are not what employers are looking for. Too lazy, disinterested and stoned and nowhere near reliable enough or willing to get their hands dirty. I even had one lad skive off lessons because he got his trainers a little bit dirty and "Had to go and get them dry-cleaned" - I shit you not, he was nearly in tears. I swear, if there was another great war and we had to rely on that generation to go and fight for us, we may as well give up now. Barely any motivation, discipline or backbone between them That's more a cultural problem though, for a long time the culture has seen university as the only decent destination and jobs like electricians are for the 'also ran' types as opposed to being considered a desirable career choice in it's own right. You're not seeing a representative sample of the youth today. " It may not be representative of society in general, but seeing as there are numerous research papers that seem to show that foreign workers only exert a downward pressure on wages for the lower-skilled end of the market, it seems relevant in this context. I worked there for 8 years, so you're probably looking at a sampke size of somewhere between 6-900 students, which I think is reasonable enough to draw some conclusions from. Of those, each year looking at the different cohorts, you probably had around 20% that were self-motivated and driven, maybe 30% that had to be nudged along a fair bit, 40% that had to be dragged through kicking and screaming and 10% that were as much use as a lesbian with no tongue. Obviously these are all *licks finger and sticks it in the air* type figures, but it's not far off... If these are the lads are competing against the foreigners, then its no bloody wonder the foreigners are getting the jobs...we used to joke that if they could write their name, then that was an achievement. Then we had a lad who literally couldn't even write his own name (and before you ask - he'd been tested, and no he didn't have learning difficulties) - after that the joke just didn't seem funny any longer... | |||
"Has anybody not noticed that the British worker is demonised...All to give the illusion that we need foreign workers to do our jobs... Our young folk cannot get work due to business employing cheap labour from eastern europe... I've got three teenagers in my circle, all of them have got cheap labour work (restaurants and shops) with no trouble at all. Mind you, they went looking for them, going door to door with their CVs and agreeing to unpaid trial days. Their friends have done the same. I haven't noticed them being demonised.. You want to read through this thread then.... It's none stop with hate and bile over British workers and especially young British people. Seems more like people discussing their first-hand experiences rather than demonising if you ask me... I'm not sure how much exposure you've had to the youth of today, but having taught in a further education college, training predominantly 16-19 year olds how to be electricians, I can safely say in my experience that the vast majority of them are not what employers are looking for. Too lazy, disinterested and stoned and nowhere near reliable enough or willing to get their hands dirty. I even had one lad skive off lessons because he got his trainers a little bit dirty and "Had to go and get them dry-cleaned" - I shit you not, he was nearly in tears. I swear, if there was another great war and we had to rely on that generation to go and fight for us, we may as well give up now. Barely any motivation, discipline or backbone between them That's more a cultural problem though, for a long time the culture has seen university as the only decent destination and jobs like electricians are for the 'also ran' types as opposed to being considered a desirable career choice in it's own right. You're not seeing a representative sample of the youth today. It may not be representative of society in general, but seeing as there are numerous research papers that seem to show that foreign workers only exert a downward pressure on wages for the lower-skilled end of the market, it seems relevant in this context. I worked there for 8 years, so you're probably looking at a sampke size of somewhere between 6-900 students, which I think is reasonable enough to draw some conclusions from. Of those, each year looking at the different cohorts, you probably had around 20% that were self-motivated and driven, maybe 30% that had to be nudged along a fair bit, 40% that had to be dragged through kicking and screaming and 10% that were as much use as a lesbian with no tongue. Obviously these are all *licks finger and sticks it in the air* type figures, but it's not far off... If these are the lads are competing against the foreigners, then its no bloody wonder the foreigners are getting the jobs...we used to joke that if they could write their name, then that was an achievement. Then we had a lad who literally couldn't even write his own name (and before you ask - he'd been tested, and no he didn't have learning difficulties) - after that the joke just didn't seem funny any longer..." It's not your sample size that makes it unrepresentative. At the end of the day, there's no law in capitalism that this job must be paid more or less than this job. People today need to be thinking if their job will even exist in 10 years time, as a lot don't. Adapt or die. | |||
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"Well, I'm not sure I see the direct connection between capitalism and what I was talking about, but if we're going to go down that route then what we have is a sub-section (the foreigners) who are willing to out-compete the others; they work harder, make sacrifices such as 4 of them living in a 2 bed flat and offer the same product for a lower cost. Add to that we have a situation in this country where unions have been demonised and undermined to the extent that it's been possible to erode workers' rights (not that I'm a huge fan of unions) and employers in some industries effectively enjoy the same luxuries afforded to a monopsony. Furthermore we've had successive governments who had built an economy predicated on a housing market and have been almost allergic to investing in social housing... We used to build 350,000 council houses a year, now private house builders and housing associations put together only build a bit more than half that number. Yet anyone with any economic nous could see that the easiest way to stimulate the economy after the GFC would have been to embark on a programme of building social housing... And with us likely to slip back into another mini-recession having barely clawed our way out of the last, things are looking pretty fucked all round" Your first paragraph was a good description of what i meant! Don't agree that building council houses would stimulate the economy. At all. Half the value of the houses we have are predicated on being as far away as possible from the council estates we already have, in the thin hope those kids won't make the same catchment area. We have a shrinking population that is only growing because of migration, which apparently people want to reduce. | |||
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"My blood boils each time I hear this. Have u tried to recruit lately??? I have been trying to recruit staff for weeks and can't get my quota. From Facebook to Twitter to job centre to company website . Look on your local Facebook see how many companies have vacancies . Sorry seems like ppl just don't want jobs . " what sector are we talking about here? | |||
"You don't think that creating thousands of jobs in the construction industry, increasing the sales of the various suppliers for all of the different trades whilst simultaneously relieving the pressure on the housing market, making it more affordable and leaving ordinary people with more disposable income would have stimulated the economy?" Nope, as you said yourself, driving up house prices creates wealth. In fact more money is created via the housing market than the central bank printing it. Ordinary people don't live in council houses either. | |||
"You don't think that creating thousands of jobs in the construction industry, increasing the sales of the various suppliers for all of the different trades whilst simultaneously relieving the pressure on the housing market, making it more affordable and leaving ordinary people with more disposable income would have stimulated the economy? Nope, as you said yourself, driving up house prices creates wealth. In fact more money is created via the housing market than the central bank printing it. Ordinary people don't live in council houses either. " Yeah, driving up house prices does...but if we were to build enough housing, then that would reduce house prices, not increase them... What are you defining as 'ordinary' people incidentally? | |||
"You don't think that creating thousands of jobs in the construction industry, increasing the sales of the various suppliers for all of the different trades whilst simultaneously relieving the pressure on the housing market, making it more affordable and leaving ordinary people with more disposable income would have stimulated the economy? Nope, as you said yourself, driving up house prices creates wealth. In fact more money is created via the housing market than the central bank printing it. Ordinary people don't live in council houses either. Yeah, driving up house prices does...but if we were to build enough housing, then that would reduce house prices, not increase them... What are you defining as 'ordinary' people incidentally?" But we want to increase house prices, not reduce them! That's most peoples most expensive asset! There are ~25m homes in the UK of which 70% are owner occupied. Just 2m of those houses are council houses. So an ordinary person owns a house that isn't a council house. | |||
"You don't think that creating thousands of jobs in the construction industry, increasing the sales of the various suppliers for all of the different trades whilst simultaneously relieving the pressure on the housing market, making it more affordable and leaving ordinary people with more disposable income would have stimulated the economy? Nope, as you said yourself, driving up house prices creates wealth. In fact more money is created via the housing market than the central bank printing it. Ordinary people don't live in council houses either. Yeah, driving up house prices does...but if we were to build enough housing, then that would reduce house prices, not increase them... What are you defining as 'ordinary' people incidentally? But we want to increase house prices, not reduce them! That's most peoples most expensive asset! There are ~25m homes in the UK of which 70% are owner occupied. Just 2m of those houses are council houses. So an ordinary person owns a house that isn't a council house." I'd disagree - we want to *reduce* house prices if we want to stimulate the economy, because as things are the ridiculous state of the housing market is having a negative impact on peoples' disposable income. More and more people are finding it impossible to buy, and are spending an inordinate amount of their income on rent. Even those people who are homeowners don't really benefit from rising house prices, because it's paper money that isn't realised unless they sell their house - and if they sell to buy another, that's likely increased in value in a similar proportion, so the actual gains are marginal. This economy that we've created, so contingent on rising house prices, is unsustainable and untenable. It's not healthy. Taking your definition, I'd suggest that the use of the word 'ordinary' is possibly open to misinterpretation, as though 'ordinary' can be used to mean 'statistically normal' as in this context, there are too many colloquial connotations that start to include class and other social constructs...in which 'ordinary' can mean all manner of things. There's also the point to make that if you include the housing association properties it takes the total to around 4M, and there's around a further 1.5M houses that were sold off under Right to Buy. Nevertheless, if we took the housing market as is, and introduced hundreds of thousands of affordable rental properties, this would relieve the pressure on the housing market, making rent more affordable. More affordable rent would mean more disposable income, which people would either spend or save (likely to buy a house) It's been long recognised since the 70s that we have a housing deficit of anything between 150,000 to 300,000 houses a year. Post-crash was the perfect time to address that and create jobs at the same time | |||
"You don't think that creating thousands of jobs in the construction industry, increasing the sales of the various suppliers for all of the different trades whilst simultaneously relieving the pressure on the housing market, making it more affordable and leaving ordinary people with more disposable income would have stimulated the economy? Nope, as you said yourself, driving up house prices creates wealth. In fact more money is created via the housing market than the central bank printing it. Ordinary people don't live in council houses either. Yeah, driving up house prices does...but if we were to build enough housing, then that would reduce house prices, not increase them... What are you defining as 'ordinary' people incidentally? But we want to increase house prices, not reduce them! That's most peoples most expensive asset! There are ~25m homes in the UK of which 70% are owner occupied. Just 2m of those houses are council houses. So an ordinary person owns a house that isn't a council house. I'd disagree - we want to *reduce* house prices if we want to stimulate the economy, because as things are the ridiculous state of the housing market is having a negative impact on peoples' disposable income. More and more people are finding it impossible to buy, and are spending an inordinate amount of their income on rent. Even those people who are homeowners don't really benefit from rising house prices, because it's paper money that isn't realised unless they sell their house - and if they sell to buy another, that's likely increased in value in a similar proportion, so the actual gains are marginal. This economy that we've created, so contingent on rising house prices, is unsustainable and untenable. It's not healthy. Taking your definition, I'd suggest that the use of the word 'ordinary' is possibly open to misinterpretation, as though 'ordinary' can be used to mean 'statistically normal' as in this context, there are too many colloquial connotations that start to include class and other social constructs...in which 'ordinary' can mean all manner of things. There's also the point to make that if you include the housing association properties it takes the total to around 4M, and there's around a further 1.5M houses that were sold off under Right to Buy. Nevertheless, if we took the housing market as is, and introduced hundreds of thousands of affordable rental properties, this would relieve the pressure on the housing market, making rent more affordable. More affordable rent would mean more disposable income, which people would either spend or save (likely to buy a house) It's been long recognised since the 70s that we have a housing deficit of anything between 150,000 to 300,000 houses a year. Post-crash was the perfect time to address that and create jobs at the same time" I think you made some good points. I don't agree with you but i respect the way you presented your views. Post crash the government(s) did kick off a lot of infrastructure upgrades that have that same effect, especially in rail. | |||
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"You don't think that creating thousands of jobs in the construction industry, increasing the sales of the various suppliers for all of the different trades whilst simultaneously relieving the pressure on the housing market, making it more affordable and leaving ordinary people with more disposable income would have stimulated the economy? Nope, as you said yourself, driving up house prices creates wealth. In fact more money is created via the housing market than the central bank printing it. Ordinary people don't live in council houses either. Yeah, driving up house prices does...but if we were to build enough housing, then that would reduce house prices, not increase them... What are you defining as 'ordinary' people incidentally? But we want to increase house prices, not reduce them! That's most peoples most expensive asset! There are ~25m homes in the UK of which 70% are owner occupied. Just 2m of those houses are council houses. So an ordinary person owns a house that isn't a council house. I'd disagree - we want to *reduce* house prices if we want to stimulate the economy, because as things are the ridiculous state of the housing market is having a negative impact on peoples' disposable income. More and more people are finding it impossible to buy, and are spending an inordinate amount of their income on rent. Even those people who are homeowners don't really benefit from rising house prices, because it's paper money that isn't realised unless they sell their house - and if they sell to buy another, that's likely increased in value in a similar proportion, so the actual gains are marginal. This economy that we've created, so contingent on rising house prices, is unsustainable and untenable. It's not healthy. Taking your definition, I'd suggest that the use of the word 'ordinary' is possibly open to misinterpretation, as though 'ordinary' can be used to mean 'statistically normal' as in this context, there are too many colloquial connotations that start to include class and other social constructs...in which 'ordinary' can mean all manner of things. There's also the point to make that if you include the housing association properties it takes the total to around 4M, and there's around a further 1.5M houses that were sold off under Right to Buy. Nevertheless, if we took the housing market as is, and introduced hundreds of thousands of affordable rental properties, this would relieve the pressure on the housing market, making rent more affordable. More affordable rent would mean more disposable income, which people would either spend or save (likely to buy a house) It's been long recognised since the 70s that we have a housing deficit of anything between 150,000 to 300,000 houses a year. Post-crash was the perfect time to address that and create jobs at the same time I think you made some good points. I don't agree with you but i respect the way you presented your views. Post crash the government(s) did kick off a lot of infrastructure upgrades that have that same effect, especially in rail. " Woah woah woah, hang on there a minute...this is the internet - if you disagree with me aren't you supposed to tell me I'm wrong and then call me some names? Not sure I can handle this 'civilised debate' malarkey 
I'd agree - yes, there were infrastructure projects, but some of them risk being white elephants for one, and for two I think the state of the housing market is probably *the* defining factor in our economy.
Trouble is, if we burst the housing bubble (as needs to happen), so much of the banks' assets are tied up in housing that we'd probably end up having to bail them all out again... | |||
" Woah woah woah, hang on there a minute...this is the internet - if you disagree with me aren't you supposed to tell me I'm wrong and then call me some names? Not sure I can handle this 'civilised debate' malarkey
I'd agree - yes, there were infrastructure projects, but some of them risk being white elephants for one, and for two I think the state of the housing market is probably *the* defining factor in our economy.
Trouble is, if we burst the housing bubble (as needs to happen), so much of the banks' assets are tied up in housing that we'd probably end up having to bail them all out again..."Well it was nice to see some facts and numbers from someone who disagrees with me, doesn't happen often on fab! Economics is a dynamic system so i can't really say that you are wrong per se because what is right or wrong in economics can change. For example, if we're in an economy where there are loads of good investment oppprtunities but lack of cash supply, then rising house prices are great because you can borrow against the asset and invest (e.g. expand your house via a loft conversion rather than buy a bigger one). If wages are stagnant then rising house prices above ~5% can be a problem because the wealth gets trapped with people on the ladder. I'd say we have both those situations, at the same time... and others. I think we can agree we're not looking to bail out banks again... ever. | |||
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